Immersive Workspaces

My business colleagues have asked me the question a thousand times: “With all the work that you have to do, how do you find time for a Second Life?”

Many of us share this problem – an increasingly intense business environment, packed with meetings, flooded with information, the burden of frequent travel. And as self-serving as it may sound, Second Life is one of my most important business productivity tools. Linden Lab has seven offices across four time zones, with more than a fifth of our employees working from home. Without using Second Life as our team collaboration environment, we wouldn’t be able to run such a distributed workforce and still have the tightly knit company we have today.

We’ve been pleased to see integrated business solutions developed for the Second Life Grid, and yesterday we announced a new partnership with a best-of-breed winner: Immersive Workspaces from Rivers Run Red. Immersive Workspaces provides content and functionality for an out of the box virtual collaboration environment, integrated with web tools that allow businesses to upload, share and interact with typical media like slideshow and video presentations. It brings together the power of an immersive 3D environment with the ease of use of web-based social media tools – from our use of Second Life as a daily work environment, we are convinced this can bring significant productivity gains and cost savings to a very wide range of enterprises. Β Check out the video here.

In today’s financial climate, every organization in every industry is thinking hard about best business practices to boost profitability. Meetings, prototyping and design, training, simulation, distance learning, and any other activity dependent on efficient collaboration can be greatly enhanced by the Immersive Workspaces solution. Over the next few months we’ll be announcing additional developments as we work to further enhance and integrate solutions that help customers around the world realize more returns from their investments in the Second Life Grid. We want you to find as I did, that more time in Second Life can give you more time for your whole life.

About Ginsu Linden
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97 Responses to Immersive Workspaces

  1. Emondrell Raymaker says:

    Hmm, a lot of these features look pretty clever (I especially like the media-streamed desktop view). Obviously this ‘solution’ will be for paying customers of Immersive Workspaces — I’m curious if ‘casual’ users will ever see any of these features provided directly by LL with the regular SL service?

  2. Yea… Hard to work for your life kinda!

  3. DaQbet says:

    I think its cool!
    My senses feel insulted now when I take a conference call and just stare at the phone or watch some flat Power Point slides. I want to tell everyone to meet me in world and we can discuss this while riding dragons or sailing, or shopping πŸ˜€ or just chilling at my castle.

  4. Justa Lemon says:

    Linden Lab for many years told us that the grid would not become the home/playground of big corporations, and that the world was purely for our benefit.

    Over time I have slowly seen them creep in as I knew they always would. After all everyone has a price, including the Lindens.

  5. Foxxe Wilder says:

    Oh please!! Does ANYONE actually believe you guys are attracting RL businesses with all the SCREWUPS you do?

    My FAVORITE one of recent times is the FAILED attempts at using textures in clothing designs!!! Get your priorities right… SCREW the external business interests (IF they actually exist at all) and STOP SCREWING the residents. WE are your bread and butter, NOT some fantasy corporation!!

  6. Ultrecth Devoix says:

    ….tsk….tsk…all i can say its a bit too late to be trying to expand your market. from what i see now and im online a lot is, empty places everywhere, land for sale everywhere, and tier that way too expensive. ok…sure its a great place to hold a meeting but im not employed by a big corporation…

    take care of your core, the current tier payers are struggling and this does not help them one bit.

  7. Markopolis Balhaus says:

    The integration of business can only benefit the residents. This going in the direction is should be going. Time for all of the dinosaurs to get out of the way and lets make money and have fun doing it.

  8. Novis Dyrssen says:

    “Real people are doing real work”??? What do you think a whole lot of your paying customers are doing so far? Twiddling their toes???

    Sorry, but this might sound nice for the same companies and executives that have been so convinced they needed a presence in SL right now… and dropped out a few weeks after. So far, I have seen nothing in this vid that a video conference and the right server setup can’t provide… and I dare say, provide it with less crashes… *coughs*

  9. Insky Jedburgh says:

    Is there any good reason why LL chose Rivers Run Red to work on this development with them? Why not choose a corporation that supports Second Life instead of one that bailed out of SL in favor of Google’s Lively? LL should reward those who stuck with SL not those who abandoned it when times got tough.

    Regarding this development anyhow, I tend to agree with those who feel that this kind of investment in luring corporate interests really does not work in the best interests of LL. The services being provided are not that much different from services outside SL, and so will just have established competition to work against from the start.

    If LL wants more investment capital, support SL’s greatest asset, the thousands of content creating users, and micro businesses. Get the micro economic revolution that SL used to be jumpstarted again, boost your concurrency to the dreamed of 1 million concurrent users. Then the seemingly tiny investments of each person will far outstrip any profit you might realize by courting corporate investment and partnerships.

  10. Three posts in three days? Does this mean that the blog is back in vogue?

  11. amilie anatine says:

    Our posts are now being reviewed before being posted? thats different from when phillip was boss, they posted immediately. now im not sure if my post will even show up because of my opinion of LL. hopefully censorship of the residents who built this place is not in the business plan.

  12. amilie anatine says:

    I agree with Insky and this whole situation kind of stinks for grid solution providers, or at least for me, and im a solution provider. I didnt know about this till i read a press release on monday. solution providers were notified this afternoon.

  13. Magrell Wise says:

    I cannot imagine a company that would actually even remotely rely on SL as a collaboration tool in RL. Way too much lag, too many crashes, too many griefers. Just because you keep telling everyone how much Corporate America loves SL, does not make it true.

    When I start seeing Corporate America pushing SL outside (or anywhere for that matter) then I’ll believe it.

  14. Renee Faulds says:

    @12 EXACTLY !!!!

    Linden Lab just hates to see the truth posted here – might scare away those corps they trying to get in bed with!! So just delete all my posts how you just ripped me off AGAIN for 37 hours worth of work because you have a NEW bug you can’t fix and then to have to conceiger department “threaten” me !!!

    After 5 years you still consider your customers as worthless.

    AOL practices brought to Linden Lab – rip the customer off.

    Still clueless at the Lab !

  15. Renee Faulds says:

    Revised to say

    @13 EXACTLY

    have to revise that because another post was censored out.

  16. Renee Faulds says:

    Well folks these posts are getting cencored to fast for me to keep up the the numbering.

    If Linden Lab put as much work into customer servcie as they do censoring the blog, they would not have to court corps to make up the slack.

  17. DerDepp Schnabel says:

    since i started my experience with SL 2 years ago, i tried to use SL as a platform for “real” busines, as a collaborative 3d design and simulation platform for event and show design. the basics in SL for this venture seems to be perfect.
    unfortunately most of my colleagues canceled their involvement in this project in case of a never ending technical issues….ignored many times by LL support.
    my partners did not take SL seriously enough for busines.
    i cant remember all the support tickets about technical issues but without any solving by LL.
    at the moment, there are still some issues with client and macbook pro incompatibility (most of our partners including me use macs) wherefore it is
    almost impossible to work on collaborative projects, becouse nearly 80% of our time is wasted by technical problems with client or server software.
    we still try to establish this platform into this special kind of work, but currently, there is no approval.
    SL have the potential to be much better than any ss3d viewer as you can work
    actively on your objects in groups.
    sad…so far

  18. Darien Caldwell says:

    test, test. Censorbot override code X393. :p

  19. amilie anatine says:

    fyi keep your response under 100 characters or you will be censored. so leave out all the verbs unless they are curse words. be concise in your criticisms. i will now call this. “C.C.C.”

  20. Ciaran Laval says:

    This isn’t aimed at us using Second Life, the keywords here are Second Life Grid. That’s the corporate solution.

    This has potential for business, and finally being able to make presentations live is a real plus point.

  21. amilie anatine says:

    C.C.C.–> i make money as a solution provider where i praise SL, work around all SL bugs to provide a fantastic emersive, collaborative, 3D work and conference environment. i dont make as much money as hard as I work (mouse hand sweating?) because part of it is volunteerism, part learning, research, and part fun. Swoop in under the firewall and give me competition and my motivations start to diminish. dont censor that!!!

  22. It’s funny Ginsu, every Corporate Client I brought to Second Life has folded up their tents and left because of the instability.

    Before you go selling a product like Second Life to Corporate Clients, you just might want to be sure you have addressed the instability issue. You get one chance with Corporate Clients, if you don’t do it right, they are gone, and it’s near impossible to get them to come back and give it another try; not that I would ask any of my Clients back, considering the instability of Second Life viewers by Linden Lab.

  23. Cairo Serevi says:

    That’s I was waiting for!!!
    When, where, how much???

  24. Maggie Darwin says:

    Every time I hear about a new “strategic partnership” for Linden Research, I wonder how much developer resource it’s going to divert from bug fixing.

    Or already has.

  25. Dogg Food says:

    So. This is how it ends.

    Lemme get this right… If a corporate entity builds a cool desktop integration feature, it gets implented in their sims/viewers on the main grid… HOWEVER, if oooh say Rex Labs does it, it gets shunned and banished to OpenSim regions (not openspace, I mean the free servers that have no physics and you come up ruth, yea, those)

    Cmon linden labs, give back a little. Either let us Exodus completely or let us make SL what it COULD be. C#, Java, etc for servers, maybee a plugin system that works?

    sigh… soon enough everyones going to one up you, and it’s going to come down.

  26. AWM Mars says:

    Seems like its ‘Beat the Lindens’ again…. Nice job giving the corps a great tool… pity you dont look INSIDE the community, collaborative tools have been available for nearly TWO YEARS now. How hard would it be for you guys at the Lab to support those companies and individuals who have been striving away through the rolling restarts, bug chases, lagggggggg, lost inventories etc etc etc… instead, you seek outside contractors, who have probably never been into, or maybe even heard of SL and buy ftrom them a nice new shiny bolt on eye candy… totally SCREWING over the business’s that are trying to develop within SL, that ALREADY provide those tools……

    I give up…… It’s like hitting your own head with a brick….

  27. Vryl Valkyrie says:

    Sounds great.. although in light of the current economical situation in the world, you could win a good deal of support by lowering tier fees back to what they were before you went from 195 to 295 USD a month for island costs. Take a good look around.. people are just abandoning their virtual land simply because they cannot make the tier fees.

    It is even harder on the Europeans now since they pay VAT and now the world banks and stock market in the condition that it is in, not a pretty site for many, especially that the Euro has taken a dive.

    People are in a panic and less likely to invest in virtual dreams when they are struggling to survive in reality. Hopefully Linden Lab will hear the call of the community before it’s too late.

    Once again, thanks for the thumbs up but right now let’s focus on other issues that are close to our hearts and banks… reduced tier fees.

  28. Vryl Valkyrie says:

    Oh.. another possibility is to offer a free open space island with each regular island.. I am sure this would also help allot. Why is it that Open Grid sims have 45K prims and we only have 15K?

    Once again, thanks for keeping us informed.

  29. Amilie Anatine says:

    i totally agree with AVM Mars. LL did you know that there are many suppliers in world of conference gadgets like, clever zebras full perm presenter? a powerpoint and video screen that uses unique channels! 57 miles gives it away for free!!! LL did you know that there are many furniture makers, telephone gadgets and notecard givers and even large convention center buildings, like 3DOS and clever zebra island and the convention center (if the tiers havent killed the owners yet) and also orange island?? Did you know that people have large meetings and conferences daily? I went to a ballet once. I honestly want to know how you can let your new partner RRR say that they have finally improved on the bottlneck of developing (i have the quote). In fact, the biggest bottleneck i have experienced is the corporations not taking seriously their presence and not wanting to be hands on in the making of the development or the branding. They want something as simple as powerpoint. Why dont they just use powerpoint then? I tell you what, you give yours powerpoint and i will give mine a second life.

  30. Amilie Anatine says:

    i think ever since you took the blog links off of the viewer, fewer people are reading it, and clearly fewer are responding. either that or you have censored about 100 people today.

  31. Kuchiki Xue says:

    RL Businesses are NOT welcome in SL.
    Who creates and maintains most of SL, who sticks with SL through ups and downs?
    Who is in SL for fun and because they genuinly love the place?
    The Community, thats who.
    Businesses will only try to make money from SL and they will fall flat on thier faces. SL is not the next revolution of the internet, nor a great business tool. It is howevere a brilliant place for people to bring thier ideas and creativity to a point where they can make the virtual world a better place.
    LL, remember this – It’s the community who has made SL what it is, not businesses. It’s the community who have reated the countless items for sale. It’s the community that makes it worth staying. Businesses will NOT use SL for training. Why over complicate things with 3D when video conference is easier to set up and a lot cheaper?
    Forget about attracting businesses and for goodness sake listen to your USERBASE.
    If you don’t then all you’ll have is an empty grid. But hey, you got businesses in. Shame they won’t be able to buy skins, or homes, or hair, or anything elses that the community has made.

  32. Kuchiki Xue, while I agree that it’s the community that made SL what it is, I don’t agree that RL business are not welcome here. Second Life is open for everyone as it is many things. It is more than a creative space, more than a collaborative space, etc…If you want nothing to do with RL businesses, you can, the grid is soooo big, you choose what you explore in.

    Those that think SL’s got too much sex are also misguided. Again, there are so many places in SL that isn’t just about sex. It’s like the internet, where porn and business websites coexist, sometimes you run into them, sometimes you don’t. Frankly I don’t run in the sex stuff in SL, well, unless I search for it, or stick around sandboxes while afk for too long…lol.

    AWM made a point there. So much has been done by our residents to address this, why not approach them? So many SL add-ins and band aids made to enhance SL, why approach a company who have already made a public statement of bailing out of SL? Many residents who are much more loyal and PASSIONATE.

  33. Looks like an advert for Rivers Run Red.

    Here’s mine πŸ˜‰

  34. Burgess Miles says:

    Of course Lindens should try to develop SL, it’s in the very nature of things, anything, to develop. However, how could any big time corps ever take SL seriously the way it is running atm? if Lindens want to attract the business world the world needs to be stable and a lot less laggy. I have pointed this out several times before…but I feel strongly about these issues so here I go again…
    Number of accounts/residents; Anyone with half a brain knows that the number 15 + million accounts only means that there are millions and millions of unused anidle accounts, 100’s of thousands of bot accounts and whatnot. Lindens need to start deleteing accounts that are not used. Stating those numbers in marketing SL is only naiive and too transparent to be taken seriously.
    The way traffic is calculated is way way off target and have nothing at all to do with reality. Camper and bot accounts are created my sim- and business owners to boost their traffic. Haven’t you seen places with 100+ K traffic but almost always empty? Instead they’re full of campers and bots that are there 24/7 faking traffic numbers. A huge number of accounts are no doubt these camper/bot accounts. If the traffic caluculation system was revised these accounts would be useless and no one would be tempted to create 85 empty accounts just to boost traffic at their place.
    In my view Lindens needs to get their priorities right.

  35. ZoHa Boa says:

    they DO censor the blogs. I posted a negative comment about Nautilius and they removed it !!

  36. Craig Solzhenitsyn says:

    Another step towards the commercial, another step away from the common user.

  37. Tegg B says:

    Maybe if there were more corporate customers LL would be more diligent with stability and negative stuff like bots and adfarming, so let’s not kick first think later……………. πŸ™‚

  38. raveendran says:

    Very good Work

  39. kumarasamy says:


  40. Praetor Janus says:

    If SL worked at all, it would be a nice proposition:)

    Regrettably it doesn’t,

    β€” Too much lag,
    β€” Too few prims,
    β€” Too much bugs,
    β€” Too weak servers,
    β€” Too messy code!

    Some day, perhaps, but not today.

    I’ve some 60 employees in SL now (27 are Premium, most have not logged in the last 9 months) and we can’t even be all in the same place at the same time, too laggy! Not even in our own Island!

    Nice wishful thinking though πŸ™‚

    All the Best

  41. Cheta Torok says:

    Personally I welcome Rivers Run Red’s efforts. Is it a end all, absolutely not. I see some issues with the marketing campaign, but it is an intriguing system.

    As far as Marketing, the script actors are a little too forced, and the inclusion of their RL selves is a touch misleading. And to be honest the guy is just scary when he is asked to make the changes.

    It’s competitors are WebEx, GotoMyPC, and all the Video Teleconference vendors out there. The VTC gear doesn’t easily support the number of connections as the grid does, but that is primarily due to bandwidth limitations of the video. WebEx and the like are a little distant, unless you have a camera, but they don’t support 80 people with video, nor does my monitor LOL.

    The trick is selling the concept that you can form a real connection to someone in the SL experience, without risking offhand gestures putting a negative spin on the conversation. If both parties have an implicit trust that transcends RL experiences, allowing for a better communication and more effective teams. I have no idea if this product can sell the concept, but it is the niche that the other systems don’t really bring.

    I have no idea what the business community is going to say to avatars not perfectly matching the person they represent. The actors were all within the normal set that are represented in SL. I am not sure how someone dressing much younger is going to be taken. I also do not know how it is going to handle inventories and clothing.

    It would be nice if it could handle multiple video streams from the desktops, but I do not know if it can do that. But that would allow many people to connect and interact in a development team environment when they are all working different angles.

    I see great possibilities, but I am not convinced that it fits business well. Rivers Run Red has some great material on their immersive brandspaces pages. I think they can do better as far as the advertising for this product. I do wish them the best with their efforts. Their success will be LL’s success end the end.

  42. Coventina Dalgleish says:

    It would nice to have some form of representation of the body when one logs in rather than a puff of smoke that may or may not materialize just more diversion from the fact that the game still has problems that do not seem to be addressed or is this the smoke and mirrors part of the presentation.

  43. S J says:

    It may be a productivity tool but I see that there is still demand for services like SLX (XStreetSL) and the Lindens still use normal HTTP Services like JIRA and the Forums.

  44. mcp Moriarty says:

    It’s to easy to snoop, to easy to crash, to limited. I can fly my camera some 100m easy and not be on radar but see what’s going on. A skype conference call or ichat call is far more reliable. Not to mention most companies disable outside access to the internet solely to stop people from playing ‘games’ and goofing off at work. I especially like the one comment, SL as a software platform. lol lsl/mono is so limited it’s not funny, many commands don’t return error codes, just silently fail, even though some are able to return values. If forces one to script elaborate sloppy work arounds. Classy. πŸ˜‰

  45. ZoHa Boa says:

    How can peole in a company work together if group im’s do not work at all or have all the time chat lag ????

  46. These kinds of blogposts just make me want to relaunch my old sl-escorts website, to remind LL and everybody else what SL is really about, instead of all this nonsense about it being useful for anything corporate or serious.

    SL = crazy, silly, hilarious fun, shopping, clothes, making jokes, having sex, meeting friends. All pretension it is or ever will be something else is a little sad I think. If LL accepts what SL is and improves what it is it can have a decent future.

  47. janie matahari says:


  48. majya sands says:

    the forums look very dead except for the technical issues section. if there are no comments here and no comments there, are people reading anything?

  49. Byron Karlsbar says:


    If all the bots were banned, what would happen to residents online figures….? Could LL afford the plummeting figures?

  50. Taff Nouvelle says:

    Over 24 hours and only 55 posts. This shows the current level of involvement felt by the customers now in SL ™. It was not long ago that the blog would have been filled withing an hour or so, now customers feel that to comment here, or on the forums is a complete waste of time and effort.
    The original post is put up, someone reads comments to make sure they are not to harmfull, and that is it, nobody in LL is going to take any notice or answer any points raised, I am afraid we are no longer important to them, and what we thin or ask is of even less importance.
    Private region owners are seeing the value of what we were told was an investment drop daily due to LL pumping more and more land into the market.
    Any good ideas thought up be customers are hijacked and used by LL.
    I am afraid we may as well accept that we have outlived our usefulness, while SL was in the alpha stage ,LL meeded our money to develop the platform, now it is well into beta, they still need the money, but because we are hooked and cannot just walk away, they do not need to look after us or even talk to us.
    It really is a shame, the concept of a global community was a great idea, I really am sorry that it all came to nothing more than a way to take money from a lot of people for a lot of empty promises.

    If this post is removed I will repost it until it stays, or I get banned, I have come to that point, $1,600 a month that I pay LL should get me more standing than it does. And I am only a vewry small investor.

  51. It’s great to see this! I am going to recommend this to my workplace πŸ™‚

  52. Hern Worsley says:

    So what are LL the providers of the grid or direct competitors on the marketplace with a highly unfair advantage over its own core userbase?
    (i refer to this post and also the recent developement of LL theme islands)

    If its not to be “your world your imagination” then what is it to be?

    For me this is a worrying developement that shows a lack of faith in the community to provide quality services and content.
    If were not up to scratch anymore then maybe LL can do it all themselves …oh wait no that would be impossible in fact SL itself would never have happened without our collective millions of hours of creativity and effort.

    Suddenly we find ourselves as middlemen who need cut out?

    For the record my activities in SL do not relate to land or solution providing or business however i can see the trend and id like to speak out against it now before it hits my interests later not that anyone is listening ofcourse πŸ˜‰

  53. Tao Takashi says:

    Will this be open sourced? πŸ™‚

    It makes sense because you don’t have the lock-in, you have now (can you host this on your own web server btw? And can you use OpenSim with it?). Also you cannot really change something yourself (or hire somebody else to do it) in case you want some extra tool or some changes.

    But anyway, this here is the first step. If this really is going to grow there will surely be open source solutions which can be more easily and cost effective tailored to your needs.

    Over the time we also see here how Linden Lab changes as they once tended to stay themselves out of this business or partner with other vendors.

    As for the world this once was, the world which made me spend long nights in front of the computer, a world where you can invent new stuff everyday, where you could find new cool stuff and people everyday, where you could learn about many different cultures within SL – this world I think is over now..

    Welcome to the mainstream SL with lawyers and trademarks but no broadly offensive content.

    Thus my hope goes to OpenSim and OGP which might make new worlds possible which are independant of companies and don’t have their focus on the money.

  54. majya sands says:

    ok ok i get it now!! Ginsu just said that LL relies on second life to perform their business tasks world wide, they actually use the grid for conferences etc. However the SL grid is soooo buggy, instead of working to FIX IT, they hire or partner with another company who has showed them how to bypass the SL as we know it, and provide “conference in a box”. ahahahaha well we all know how we feel about business in a box kits often sold in world in lag malls …vs.. actual created unique content sold directly by the makers. ahem, no comparison, and perhaps worse….. need i say more?

  55. Escort DeFarge says:

    @54 – I too am interested in what the online figures would be like without the bots. Are those stats available anyhwere?

  56. Alisha Matova says:

    @ people noticing low comment counts on these blogs…..

    β€œThe price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men”


    I also wonder why LL chose RRR. Their very public ridicule of user created content still resounds clearly among many of Us residents. My only guess is RRR proved to LL it has the resources and ability to pull off such an endeavor.

    On a global web scale, there are quiet a few well repute business communication services available at the moment. With the viewers extreme complexity, I really do not see SL as competition for these….Yet. Perhaps with a simplified “business” viewer and some serious work on stability.


  57. Christos Atlantis says:

    Obviously this is ment for mid to small size business, brcause corporations would need a sim that can hold over 35 people with out lagging and crashing. But I do like the overall idea good work.

  58. Ann Otoole says:

    Well hey anything to get the corporate human relations world to accept Secondlife involvement as legitimate. So more power to the effort.

  59. I agree with some other posters that there are existing communication tools which are better suited towards business than Second Life. I understand that Linden Labs probably want to market themselves from the perspective of a unique 3D interactive visualization and virtual space, because there is no other product that can boast what it has, but to tell people to use Second Life as an office tool is like saying, ‘Hey everybody, use the internet for your business needs!’

    A few reviews of Second Life, have referred to it as a glorified chatroom. In order to get away from this image, and instead of trying to make SL unique, why not add the kind of functionality that tools like Facebook and Skype also have? We could do with better friends list management and organizing tools for a start, improved networking tools, better SL search engine to find content that you want to see, etc

    You can’t force businesses into Second Life. If you provide the potential and the tools, then the businesses will slowly graduate into Second Life.

  60. Simon Kline says:

    “What is the pricing structure of Immersive Workspaces?

    We do not disclose pricing via the website, however our solution is based on a subscription model with cost/per user/per month/per annum model.”

    I don’t understand why a company would want to keep their pricing structure hidden.. what’s the big secret?

  61. Shire Pony says:

    While I see no compelling reason why a business would use LL as a platform today for global collaboration rather than using, say, video conferencing, standard project management tools, and any of the plethora of online collaboration packages out there (like Office Live), I do think it’s important to note that what they ARE doing is laying the groundwork for future communications.

    Yes, the grid is clunky and slow and the level of true interaction is abysmal (can you really have a meeting with mannequins?) but it would be foolish to believe that hardware and technology are going to remain at this level. What’s being developed here are the core assets needed to support a truly immersive 3D realm going forward.

    Mark my words – years from now we will look back at how primitive the grid is now and laugh, but we’ll be doing it from within a new world that will see 3D interaction as being as essential to communications as your mobile phone is today.

  62. Vryl Valkyrie says:

    @45 I prefer to see external programs like OnRez where they do not abuse their customers. Actually, I prefer that we get to the point where we no longer need these external programs in the first place. Better yet.. if there is a need, want or desire for external trading programs, I would rather see Linden Lab offer such a service. That would be fantastic. I can imagine to see results both inworld and out.

  63. Remember we’re going through a time where businesses are going to cut expenses. And these are usually on the same areas; travel costs, training, R&D, and marketing. For the first three SL is always a cheap solution β€” you can host in-world meetings/seminars, training courses, and do product prototyping, and even, for the more creative types, market research (you can take a look at what L’Oreal did last year). Marketing is tricky but it works β€” if done correctly, which sadly most corporations in 2006/7 didn’t.

    So in my mind I see SL as a very viable alternative to all these things. Oh yes, a meeting-in-the-flesh is ‘better’ than a virtual meeting with cute avatars; but it’s so much more cheaper and convenient. And when “cost” is the ultimate deciding factor, companies will think twice. A friend of mine, working for a large European company, figured out that if SL enabled their corporation to save just 1% of their travel costs, it would be more than worthwhile.

    Companies with multiple locations and offices, or with international projection (or the wish to have some), will definitely benefit from SL right now, just as it is. In fact, the ones which are in SL and refuse to leave are exactly using it that way. It’s far cheaper to open an office in SL and attract an international audience β€” even if you have to staff that virtual office 24/7 β€” than to buy physical real estate and establish a mortar-and-bricks presence in several international locations.

    Remember that having “thousands of avatars” on a location is not that important. Training sessions cannot be done with more than a reasonable amount of people anyway β€” 20-30 at most. A business meeting with over a dozen people is pretty much pointless. Even a small seminar doesn’t need rooms packed full with thousands of people; some certainly do, but not all. Technologies like the ChatBridge employed during the Metanomics events allow way more than a hundred avatars to watch the show β€” and interact with all participants. So the size of the sim or the number of simultaneous avatars is pretty much secondary.

    So, don’t expect pizza delivery services or local groceries in SL β€” at least, not yet! β€” but think about mutinationals with multiple offices scattered around the globe. For those, SL is the prime tool allowing employees, clients, and partners to be in touch with each other β€” without the need to pay travel costs or expensive office space. And that’s just the start; these are proven applications of SL in the corporate space, but some companies are being even more creative (isn’t SL the playground of creativity?).

    @Shire Pony is so right. Most comments here look at the very short term β€” a time frame where people don’t have their computers or network connections configured correctly and just crash and experience lag, and thus don’t see ahead: a time where the SL client is so easy to configure that you can’t get it wrong, and it will work with 100% reliability without needing a computer engineering degree to tweak at its settings, In fact, this very same SL client is being developed by Linden Lab right now! When it gets released (and after an obvious phase of debugging…), many will laugh at how hard it was to get a stable connection to SL “in the olden days” but, like so many human endeavours, we’ll quickly forget about the “bad old times”.

    After all, nobody remembers any more the times when Mosaic displayed web pages in 1993 taking minutes (with just a handful of images) β€” when it didn’t crash. We are just used to the current-generation browsers, insanely fast personal computers, and cheap broadband at our homes β€” everything is fast and reliable. SL will be that way soon, sooner than we imagine.

    As for OpenSim and the Open Grid Protocol β€” oh yes, there is no doubt that it will be the way to go for individuals, small corps, and underfunded universities. Linden Lab has basically two service offerings: regular sims and openspace (‘void’) sims. These are both deployed on top of a high-quality, high-performance grid (oh yes, just start to run your own OpenSim servers on your own grid and you’ll quickly see how hard it is to maintain it properly!). But there is room for offering low-quality, unreliable service, for a very low price β€” and OpenSim fills that niche very nicely. It’s just broadening the range of offerings for SL-compatible environments. After all, not everybody hosts their web server on Rackspace or Verio for US$1000/month β€” but for most websites on the WWW, cheap service at a handful of US$ per month is more than reasonable. In fact, I’m pretty sure that from the 2 billion sites (indexed by Google) out there, the vast majority is hosted on low-quality, unreliable, cheap servers. The same might happen with Second Life: if you require top-of-the-line, state-of-the-art services, you’ll pick the Second Life Grid run by Linden Lab (or perhaps by IBM or Intel in the very short term). But to have fun with some friends, have a sandbox to quickly build something to import later into LL’s grid, or to teach programming to classes of university students, you might be far better off with OpenSim. So it’s not as if OpenSim will be the application that “kills” Second Life; rather, it will complement Linden Lab’s offerings.

  64. Foxxe Wilder says:

    #8 – Markopolis Balhaus

    Holy crap, you sound like a politician! Thankfully NO one with brains actually BELIEVES that CRAP! Big Business in SL are totally USELESS!!

    Grab a few brain cells and stop believing in PROPOGANDA! SEE the TRUTH for what it IS, and disregard mere “news publications”. It’s all a cheesy attempt to smokescreen the public into a FALSE sense of TRUST.

  65. Lipstick on a pig. Disappointing of LL to push this as collaborating on a website outside of SL misses the point entirely. Immersed in the web?? If it was truly ‘immersive’ then it needs to be inworld, not flipping back and forth between applications. These collaboration features are already available for free on the Internet (googledocs, UserPlane).

    Also, the video ad for this product is counter-productive: it demonstrates no need for the 3 people to be Second Life to hold their conversation and they could have just done it a video conference like UserPlane (free).

    The Emperor’s New Immersive Workspace.

  66. Markopolis Balhaus says:

    So far Second Life has been a great business tool for my company. This will add even more. I just don’t see why everyone is complaining.
    I think possibly we should find something else to moan about.

  67. I feel it’s dangerous that SL is trying to redefine itself like this as a business platform; it’s like a cat trying to be a dog, confused about its own identity. Not only does it belittle those who make a living by creating user content or selling land in SL, but it will intimidate potential new residents from signing up.

    When Second Life was created, it was fresh, new, innovative, and filled a niche; I don’t understand why Linden Labs suddenly feel that they need to sell SL to early 90s expectations, when it is way ahead of its time to be so much more. Because of Second Life, there are jobs that never existed before, there are new terms being invented, new ways of language using virtual space… These are the things that LL should be focusing on, not things that were considered ‘cool’ and ‘hip’ more than a decade and a half ago, in an era when 3D computer graphics was every yuppie’s idea of a novel toy.

  68. Foxxe Wilder says:

    Ann O’Toole stop kissing up to these morons. You are merely giving them a very FALSE sense of support and thusly when so many things FAIL, (such as today’s voice communications and the ongoing texturing problems) they actually feel that the problems are on the USER end as opposed to THEIR CONTINUED FAILURES.

    But then hon, you are just a dancer/escort and not very experienced in business matters (otherwise you would have taken Management position LONG ago).

  69. Foxxe Wilder says:

    #60 Ann O’Toole stop kissing up to these morons. You are merely giving them a very FALSE sense of support and thusly when so many things FAIL, (such as today’s voice communications and the ongoing texturing problems) they actually feel that the problems are on the USER end as opposed to THEIR CONTINUED FAILURES.

    But then hon, you are just a dancer/escort and not very experienced in business matters (otherwise you would have taken Management position LONG ago).

  70. Amilie Anatine says:

    Foxx, personal attacks are totally uncalled for. I ask you to apologize to Ann.

  71. Amilie Anatine says:

    oohhh im not longer censored and banned from here!! Tesla I LOVE YOUR SHOES – shout out! they are low lag too! Why did LL banned me from comments and did not keep Foxxe’s comment in check? Cause they stop reading the comments after 15 min?

  72. Amilie Anatine says:

    my forum to continue the discussion on this blog topic:

  73. Holocluck Henly says:

    This is great. I was asking about this very thing earlier this week. A couple of VPs at work are vaguely looking to how we could utillize the virtual world for the good of the company. It’s a given that it does not really work for sales, but for general information and staff meetings I believe SL will prove invaluable.

    Re those who are unhappy with corporate presence in SL: this is not a corporate presence at all. We are talking about activities on their own island, which has nothing to do with infiltration of the Mainland or Linden properties.

  74. Darien Caldwell says:

    Yes, SL will be great for doing business across many locations spread across the planet. Assuming they can eliminate Skype, Webex, Microsfot Office, and the hundreds of other applications that already do this better, cheaper, and with fewer issues on lower end hardware.

    Don’t get me wrong, I love the idea, but I think there’s going to be a very uphill battle to get any acceptance without having *something* that makes the extra trouble worth it. Where is SL’s ‘Killer App’ for the business world?

  75. majya sands says:

    checking if im still banned…if you can read this.. ok whew!

    no i totally disagree with some, i do think businesses are more than welcome here. In fact, I spend 100% of my time developing for them, and happily. we were all newbies once too and the clients i have helped come in could have unlimited potential in SL to grow their own business, reinvent their concepts and also give back to the community. SL is not a video game either. The question is, do they want to be part of the community or not? having a private island is perfectly fine in fact, better for everyone. people want their play areas, businesses want their business areas, but at the end of the day, can we all come together and celebrate SL’s birthday? I hope so. I hope SL (LL rather) is not just another webex though. We are not trying to build webex, we are building a second life. Second society, second world, second country etc.. that is what SL is.

  76. majya sands says:

    clarification: SL HAS video games. there are games in-world. SL has chatrooms. SL is NOT a chatroom or video game, it is the platform that holds these, and it can hold businesses and it can hold many more things we have not yet invented yet.

  77. LL Has a KILLER-AP for SL, it’s called the VIEWER. It’s kills just about every 10 minutes or so.

    The arguments here aren’t whether LL SHOULD get more corporations involved (I’ve been encouraging this for years), but instead is that SL world stable enough for Corporations to come here and expect a return on their investment.

    You have to admit, with the LAG, the viewer issues, the Inventory Issues, and the other litany of bugs, Second Life is a great place for the Social and the businesses that are individually owned. Try and get a large Corporation like FORD into SL and tell them they can use it to hold world-wide meetings with their employee’s, just as long as they don’t have more then 40 people attending the meeting, and those attending the meeting should refrain from using the SL Viewer, otherwise, they might be crashing every 10 minutes, and that’ just not conducive to a good Corporate meeting.

    THIS is the problem in a nut-shell, not whether SL could support these Corporations on a commercial basis. Sure SL could support this, and I think it should. Unfortunately, it’s not SL that’s not ready for big Corporations, it’s Linden Lab. Until Linden Lab can put some serious competent employee’s on the bugs that continue to affect the Community in a negative way, then asking big Corporations into SL is just a mistake. You get ONE SHOT with these big Corporations, you “screw the pooch” with them, and no matter how good you make it down the road, you’ve lost them. Linden Lab needs to get it’s own product under control before taking this step, if they don’t, it just shows how mis-managed Linden Lab is.

  78. Pingback: Lena Franciosa » Blog Archive » Linden Lab et Rivers Run Red lancent “Immersive Workspaces”

  79. CharlesDe Beaumont says:

    For many residents SL is a philosophy. The discussions in here remind me of the old “war” between Mac – users and Windows – users.
    But I have several points, far away from philosophical thoughts (the thread is about busines, isn’t it?).

    1) The reliability of the grid is far away from the reliability that I need to rely on SL for business meetings, trainings, conferences. These events need time for preparation and time for attending them. The more people that are together, the mor coordination I need upfront. And then…oops…sorry guys, inworld voice does not work…lets do it another time….Or…oops, Jerry has just crashed, we have to wait til he has relogged. And waisted time is more cost intensive than a couple of hundred Euros for a flight/train/car travel.
    2) If this cooperation is meant to have a future, LL and RRR (about RRR’s role see a point further down) will have to improve the Grid dramatically. Low lag, reliability, high quality will be key success factors for their initiative. This can (if the improvements aren’t kept exclusive for LL/RR – customers) and will lead to improvements we all will benefit from.
    3) The enormous success (yes I think that SL is an enormous success story) is based on the community idea. thousands and thousands of creative and innovative people have created an experience that is attractive enough to make hundreds of thousands to real addicts. And it is not just about chatting, playing and so on. There are hundreds of people and small companies that developed solutions for inworld issues and tasks. And others developed solutions for immersive communication. (thanks for the zebra, 3dos and all the other keyqords to look after in the search…).
    And the translation project shows the power that this open community idea has to develop SL further and further.
    4)In the last 12 months the usage of SL has changed quite dramatically. The integration of RL and SL and vice versa is one of the main trends I observe. And this is about the residential usage of SL. So it is just logical, that after the first wave of (mostly disappointed) first movers, the RL/SL business integration takes a second attempt. It depends on the development of the basic key success factors (see above) if this second wave of business integration will be successful and sustainable.
    5) This cooperation, like every professional activity, absorbs ressources. Money, time, concentration, and and and. I hope that the effect of the cooperation will be so positive, that in the end the result will be better (for the whole SL community, not only for a paying LL/RRR clientele part) than if LL would have invested the resources not in a cooperation but directly in the SL.
    6) This brings me to my last point. Seeing that LL cooperates with RRR, a company that has turned its back to SL not long ago with quite negative comments about SL, makes me shake my head. Realising, that instead of cooperating with the inworld potential of entrepreneurs and genious inventors that are addicted to SL first and to business second, makes me shake my head. Knowing about the struggles of residents to keep their sims running without paying several hundred USD each month out of their own pocket makes me think about the missing focus of LL at the cost return relation for residents. Knowing how hard it is to run a club and to get a constant traffic of more than 6000 WITHOUT bots, campers and other window dressing traffic boosters makes me shake my head because of the ignorance of LL to deal with the cheaters.

    Conclusion (sorry, the post became longer than I thought it would be)
    I really hope, that this cooperation with RRR will not lead to an even more decreased interest of LL to solve the problems of the hundreds of thousands of SL addicts (business and non-business avatars). Because then this would lead to an end of SL as we know it and transform it to another vendor plattform for virtual business services.


    PS: Yes I am a business man, in RL very successful. And yes I am a SL addict. Not for business reasons, cos what kind of business should feed me, when there are a couple of 100 residents having mor than 5000 USD turnover per month (before cost, tax and so on…). But the community, the creativity, the innovative character the interaction with hundreds of wonderful individuals make SL worth to stay up half the night to live a part of my RL in SL.

  80. Ciaran Laval says:

    @ Darien Caldwell “the hundreds of other applications that already do this better, cheaper, and with fewer issues on lower end hardware. ”

    A point being overlooked by those gushing praise on this development who claim business will see the cost benefits as a reason to invest. Not when they platform won’t perform on office PC’s, you know the sort of PC’s you generally find in the office. They certainly won’t be rushing out to buy new graphics cards to keep up, the overheads aren’t worth the hassle.

    However this will appeal to some and is a step in the right direction, it’s just nowhere near being a widespread business phenomenon.

  81. @ 81, awesome post Charles.

    The potential of SL is slowly revealing itself through the inventiveness of the residents. To dictate the roles of how SL can be used will limit the potential of what it could become, and SL’s selling point is that ‘everything is possible’. It just feels to me a rigid left-brain approach by beginning to label it and fit it into some existing category.
    SL is organic, and changing, it is unpredictable and unexpected – Linden Lab seemed to have turned a blind eye to some of the ingenious inventions of the residents, these are the strengths of SL. It’s not a social experiment, but an enormous think tank!

  82. Taff Nouvelle says:

    Its good to see that LL have opened the blog here for comments, that must be because Ginsu Linden actually wants to know what we think of the ideas, I wonder why there has been no follow up from anyone from LL at all, not one comment on what is now 84 comments.

    If LL treat their customers this way, they will never become a business platform. I and many others in SL run RL companies, this is my relaxation and fun, BUT if I could see a way to use SL to enhance my company, I manufacture festival loudspeaker systems by the way, then I would be using it.
    I had intended some time ago to open a display store with scale models of our line of speakers, along with tech specs and contact details, that idea has been shelved due to the difficulty of actually staying on long enough without problems to make the designs, and there are just not enough hours in the day to wait for the texture edit box to open.
    I believe that I am in the bracket of small to medium sized that this initiative is aimed at, we ship worldwide, but are not multinational.
    As someone who has been in SL for over 2 years now, if I cant see a reason to use it, then new companies will have even less idea, and will come in because of hype, find it does not work and leave again,
    LL, Companies will give you ONLY one chance.

  83. Is there a way for an individual to try it out on their own?
    Watching a video about such a thing isn’t at all the same experience as actually trying it out.

  84. I am wondering what Janie said which was cancelled…. we used to work together… at a, err, umm, personal-services joint on the grid. Even LL is understandably trying to downplay this sort of thing, SL is a good environment for certain types of personal services…. for the reason (amongst others) that the L$ is a secure and relatively anonymous form of payment. The customer has no easy way of reversing the charges after he’s received the service and the provider has no access to sensitive financial information.

    On a more businesslike level, I was doing a regular conference call, and it seemed inadequate compared to an SL meeting. It was in mono (with a small “m”) for starters, and there was no way to see the name of the speaker There was no backchat. There were no visuals. Even though there are practical difficulties involved in getting the client running and getting the avis set up, SL is a huge step forward in conference call technology. (Groups might be able to get by without the custom avis: I was part of a meeting on an Opensim grid where none of us except the sysop and one other person had any inventory. The rest of us were Ruthed, and in this case there was no voice, but it was still a pretty productive meeting. (If you add voice, you would have just about everything you need for a meeting.)

  85. Wyald Woolley says:

    LL is just as ready to step into being a business platform as a certain moose hunter is to step into being president. (wink wink).

  86. janie matahari says:

    Hi Tammy, lol @ personal services. I dont know who you are, but perhaps you alted out like i did. My reincarnation is secret though, i was getting stalked. Im doing well now though, hope you are too. πŸ™‚

  87. I wonder how long before someone makes a spoof video of the Immersive Workspaces ad…


  88. Ginsu Linden says:

    Thanks everybody for your comments, I do appreciate any and all thoughtful input. Although I can’t respond in detail to every comment, here are a few points in response:

    For me, the most consistently amazing thing about Second Life has been the diversity of experience that comes from all uses. I don’t believe that new uses and experiences drive out or replace the old; rather, I have seen over the years that new interests and new market segments add to and often enrich prior uses.

    To default to a familiar analogy: it’s very much like the Web, where government and education endeavors led to consumer interest and growth, followed by enterprise interest and then reliance on the Web. Each new segment brought new users, new tools, new applications that benefitted the entire system. Early uses didn’t die out under the new uses; all grew and evolved as the entire system grew and evolved.

    Obviously, if Second Life is to hope to replicate such an incredible virtuous cycle, we must continue to improve the stability and performance of the platform. I often think that statement goes without saying, but I suppose it cannot be repeated too often.

    Finally, it is vitally important to improve the opportunity for solution providers (or developers) on the Second Life Grid. We are going to continue to think creatively about how to deliver the best solutions to customers who have often found it difficult to make sense of the incredible variety of content and tools in Second Life.

    Again, thanks for your comments and your time.

  89. Ciaran Laval says:

    Ginsu with all due respect the success of the web is based around it working on older computers. There was a stage where the web was only available to those with money, in the early days, and then it progressed to be being available more or less all.

    If LL don’t respect that important factor it will never explode.

  90. Hi Ginsu, I appreciate your response to the comments posted, but you can’t think of Second Life as the new Web; the web exists already with all its multitude of applications and uses, its futile for Linden Labs to think that they can reinvent the wheel.

    The way to help SL progress is to think outside the box, not by taking old ideas and putting them in a different wrapper. LL needs a CEO who like Ray Kurzweil is up to date with technological trends and able to forecast the needs of the future, hell, why not get Kurzweil aboard? – I know that he has more than a passing interest in virtual worlds… who could be a better mascot for SL!

  91. Taff Nouvelle says:

    @ 91
    Ginsu, thank you for coming back and showing an interest, that alone makes commenting here worthwhile.

    Just a point about gambling and the internet.
    The internet is international, it is not regulated by any one set of laws, SL is, and while that is the case, it will never have the appeal of the web.

    The web grew from government and educational use to widespread public useage, and that happened as people saw ways in which it could benefit them.
    LL is trying to force the 3d web into being, it will not happen that way, it has to be a natural progression, some things will work well in 3d, and those are things that people will try to use in SL, therefore, LISTEN to the people in SL they ARE trying to bring the 3d web into existence.
    If you continue to ignore your customers how can you expect to get new customers?

    The biggest assett that LL has is its present customer base. help them to expand SL into the 3d web, dont ignore them until they(we) completely lose the will to do anything. It is happening, look at the number of comments here, not long ago this blog would have been full within the hour, now apathy rules.

    SL, or something very like it will be the future of the web, but not until it can be used on any reasonable office machine reliably and rapidly. If I need something for my company, it takes a few seconds to search in google, get to the web page and find the info. SL has to be that fast before it can think of competing as a market place.
    The other thing it CAN do well is virtual meetings.
    At present I hold meetings on skype, that again takes a few seconds to connect, has a whiteboard and data transfer . SL has to be that fast and reliable.
    What is needed is a Lite viewer, that can be run on an office machine with basic graphics. that will open SL up to a huge market, We do not need to build, see great particle effects, waves on the water etc to sit in a room to have a meeting. Those who find it works and want to go further will be happy to upgrade machines to the level they need to do what they want to do in SL.

  92. Kwame Oh says:

    OK so we have special relationship’s with RRR, all i would like to say is, I joined because we the Residents be it in creating clothing, land speculation, or even virtual meeting set up were masters of our own destiny in this new adventure, I just hop! we are not shown, the door, and told thanks for Beta testing the platform, we shall take it from here.

    Any company deemed to be OK providing services, should show a track record of

    A: adding to the community, “this does not include creating empty sims for corporate entities” and

    B: been active in the community which we call Secondlife.

    If special relationships are to be “given out” sorry that’s how I see it, then at least let it be seen in all transparency as the cream that rose to the top. any agreements done behind closed doors, and not in the spotlight of the community, is in so far as I am concerned not in the spirit of residents creating this world.

    Julius Sowu

  93. mcp Moriarty says:

    Another point is that you need to consider the content and what goes on in SL. Seriously is a company going to allow unmonitored access at work? It’s hard enough to police ones employees as it is. How would you ever monitor it? As a team leader at work in RL I have to contend with people sneaking in cell phones (they are not allowed on the shop floor at all) and text’ing and surfing on the clock. Regardless of the rules people do it. They would rather risk their job over a silly cell phone.

    Unless all this hoopla is for the business elitist, like the CEOs that make 34 million a year whilst their bank is failing? ;/

    Don’t know why is said i submitted my post twice last time, I did not.

  94. rightasrain says:

    Gene–I hope you are not gonna use this void crisis as an example of how successful ihaving “immersive workspace” meetings can be for an organization in the digital world.

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