SL5B: Recording of the Urbanism, Architecture & Planning Panel now available

Thanks to moderator Rissa Maidstone, the recording of the Roundtable: Urbanism, Architecture & Planning: How Second Life can Help Build the Urban Landscape of the Physical World and Vice-Versa is now available.

It is also available on the SL5B wiki

This entry was posted in Community, Resident Experience. Bookmark the permalink.

63 Responses to SL5B: Recording of the Urbanism, Architecture & Planning Panel now available

  1. Christos Atlantis says:

    Thank you for the recording, I missed this event and I wanted to hear it.

  2. viper overlord says:

    logins down..what fun

  3. Wynochee LeShelle says:

    can’t login…

  4. I can’t get in either. And the status indicator says login issues are resolved. What’s happening here?

  5. SLWindbag says:

    Lol probly because the Grid status wont accept the post . Maybe it is on the same databse they have down lol . They always come after the fact.. never any posts for half of the problems that occur. I can see thing go down more than once a day but never any news lol’

  6. Luticia Rau says:

    What is wrong with simulators that we can’t log into SL?

  7. shirlee iuga says:

    there is an entry:

    Logins and In-World Services are Intermittent for Some Residents
    Posted by Status Desk on July 2nd, 2008 at 05:29 pm PDT

    We have reports of sporatic unavailablity of some services such as
    login not working, transactions failing, and land store down.
    We are aware of the problem and are working to bring these services
    back online as quickly as possible.

  8. Demeter Slade says:

    Due to a “higer then usual load” 40,371 People….. gawd….
    Please get creative… if you screwed up the Login Server earlier then say so, it’s really frustrating especially when you get kicked out your Birthday Party…. Thanks LL.

  9. Yavapai Villota says:

    I AM A PAYING MEMBER and have to read this?

    “Due to-higher-than-usual load login to SecondLife is temporaly restricted. Please try again in a few minutes”

    Note: logins failing since an hour here. Also the login to the website/account-datas.

    Any Linden listening (Katt?) and being so kind to explain what’s going on again? If restrictions, then paying members should be able to log in, or no?

  10. Ryde Whitman says:

    Can’t log in but survey shows up….No This sucks option….And I pay for this…

  11. Ryde Whitman says:

    Make the free accounts leave and let the productive people in….

  12. Dasan says:

    i cant log in either, and yes.. i have a ‘free’ account.. but dont think its free when i spend hundreds of dollars a month on products. dont diss your bread and butter so easily.. we all want in and some want to sell. others want to buy.. free account or not……..

  13. DISGUSTED IN LINDEN LABS™® *!@$!! says:

    long holiday weekend of SL hell,,,,,,,,,,please fix these issues why do they keep happening over and over and over for months ,,,,,,,,,,,,, there are huge user bases on other places like aol and yahoo and google even,,,,,,,,,,,, why is it SL cannot get up to speed why is it taking you years?????????

  14. Ann Otoole says:

    Guess that hardware upgrade was yet another big mistake eh? When you gonna learn? Throwing hardware at a lack of proper engineering and architecture doesn’t work. Ever. The only solution is a total rewrite by architects and engineers with lots of experience with massive online systems. We need SL to support millions not 20,000.

  15. Sean Heying says:

    If you spend hundreds of US$ on products a month #17 Dasan then you are PIOF (Payment Info on File) and not free.

    The cry about Free accounts is always the bot and campers, the NPIOF (No Payment Info on File) They are the ones most people refer to as free.

  16. Tristin Mikazuki says:

    Lindens WHY dont you post inworld that transactions are down? Is it THAT hard to press a few buttons?

  17. Braden Wolfenhaut says:

    Nice and when you go to live chat help they just disconect from you and never answer any questions! Very Nice ! thanks alot!

  18. Andrea Faulkner says:

    They’ll lie to us that this was caused by their ISP. It’s always their ISP that prevents us logging on. It’s NEVER their rubbish servers under the strain of their artificially bloated population numbers thatnks to unlimited free accounts for bots and alts.

    Go on.. PLEASE say that a router at your ISP was responsible AGAIN. I DARE you.

  19. Daten Thielt says:

    @13, i think the server has its messages mixed up, seems whenever something goes in and they restrict logins period everyone gets that message

    @18, Google, AOL, AT&T whatever milion user base you want to count in. none of them run a 100% 3d virtual world with 100% user created content on them running over 4000 servers with simulators on. you cant compare sl to anything on the net , its close to IMVU but not even that is 100% user created like sl,

    @22, live chat would have been disconected due to the server problems, and i fear this has something todo with the attack on Yahoo no more than 2 hours ago maby finanly some ones hacking the WWW

  20. Sam Singer says:

    OK OK i have had it LL wth is going on try back in a few minutes been over an hour and a half now GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR and this is something i spend like $200, USD a month to play wow am i a dumbass!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  21. Sierra says:

    @20 If LSL was actually powerful and flexible enough to do what we wanted we wouldn’t have to use bots for higher level function management.
    Every time I have to create something which LSL can’t do such as some complicated data management of some kind I have to send it off grid to an external server. How inefficient is that?

  22. Ener Hax says:

    holy cow! o_O just reading these and was going to say thank you for recording the sessions and then whamo, all these off topic flames. sheesh!

    well, i have never had any Linden’s hang up on me in Live Chat (prob wanted to, I get talkative). they always respond and solve my issues, even had one Linden get a hold of me inworld and spend 15 minutes trying to understand my issue which was related to

    customer service? in my book, Linden does one excellent job with it. and they were that way with me BEFORE I owned any sims. i now own a handful and they just continue to improve sl and their customer service.

    anyone who thinks they don’t do well should start their own metaverse or shut up. dang, what a bunch of whiners . . .

    oh, and thank you again for recording, and making available, the going ons of the SL5B stuff, I enjoy being able to view it in my idle time (ie, when I am not busy taking advantage of the wonderful business opportuniy that Linden has created for me) 🙂

  23. Kulalyle Anatine says:

    who cares what the problem is can i just log on plz

  24. K.Constantine says:

    I say leave the Lindens be sure this game has problems but all games do and this one is truly unique in the in game content isnt prefab or made by designers or programmers or ppl with ne real experience really its made by all of us players and lots of us arent perfect ( if ne are let me know who you are) so give em a break go do something outside remember that place where normal life happens and come back in a bit and get on god ppl get a life dont live solely on an online MMORPG or you will live an empty life

  25. omg - let me log in says:

    I want on SL 😦
    Kick the freebie accounts pweeeeeze

  26. torridluna says:

    We need payment info as a “can still login” feature! Not premium accounts, and certainly not the “business” accounts, proclaimed by M Linden in the latest Focus interview.

    Neckties aren’t online anyway, but their workers and customers are, and those are the guys that are spinning this world, and/or have important things to do. And bots (who don’t have payment info enabled anyway, because nobody pays like USD400 for his traffic bot farm) are the first _things_ to get rid of in difficult grid/asset situations.

    Denkt mal drüber nach!!

  27. Sean Heying says:

    Ener, #27, the funny thing about business opportunities in SL is that it falls into two areas.

    1. Making spacebucks from products you create, and that needs a stable environment. Imagine working for hours on a script or a house or some intricate jewellry when the asset server borks and you loose your work.

    2. Using it for real life business collaboration. What use is scheduling a meeting in SL when it’s so unreliable? Imagine you are in a meeting when you get a GodShout that the region is going down in 5 seconds. When you then try and relog in you find that logins have been restricted.

    SL Has Zero legitimate business use, it’s just smoke and mirrors put up by people who want to play a game during work hours.

  28. Yavapai Villota says:

    @27 and? are you inworld? if not: log off and try to log in and then maybe have a good time while measuring your increasing adrenaline level… – anyway: I see the numbers falling: 62000, 56000, 52000, 49000, 46000, 39000, 33000 (actualy) and so on… maybe they’ll come to the idea to restart the grid if we’re seeing the 0? About whining: you have fun with the opposite right? Blessing, praising, glorifying the Lab? Should I say now: “dang, what a bunch of glorifiers, anyone who thinks they do well should buy a mercedes benz without a motor or shut up” …? (nuff said for both points of view, let’s waste no room for others here, but wanted to respond to the endles bashing on people wich are disappointed for serious reasons i.e. residents money/time/ambitions versus Labs service and the fact that this thing has a constant level of instability wich is unique in the whole IT-biz)

  29. tinypwince says:

    To those posters crying about the freebie account holders (and I’m not talking about the sim owners that pay hundreds of dollars but those that have their “oh so expensive 7.50 USD monthly) just some numbers:
    I have a “what-you-call” freebie account and spend 7600L$ on tiers and 2000L$ on stream rental plus several thousands L$ on other items. in case your maths fail you (and I am sure they do) 9600L$ = 35 USD. My tiers finance the costs of the sim owner, ever thought about that poart…guess not because whining and pouting surely prevents you guys from exactly that!

    I’m getting utterly tired of the same old bull**** you guys are throwing at me/us.

    ’nuff said..back to trying to login

  30. Anakim Arashi says:


    Wow i am glad you have had good luck with LL customer service! Our company sure hasnt, and lets see that 12 people that concure the customer service and response time are lacking severly!

  31. Noor Loam says:

    Mhm I have a free account too, but I pay 30K tiers and buy more then most you ever had. Stop the hate, we non verfieds make tke loot and I have never sat on a camping pad 🙂

  32. Farrah Foss says:

    I have a though, since going from a Premium to NPIOF account, make camping and the use of bots for land purchase, stats pumping, and object logging against TOS. That should see a change in the number online after a bit. While you are at it, do the same with Ad farms…

    Yeah, I know, sounds kind of Big Gov, but these are the things that seem to have a very negative impact for most, and benefit only a select few.

  33. Farrah Foss says:

    Oh, and Thanks Everett for letting us know that Rissa has made the recording available.

  34. Muscrat Hesse says:


    When you get in the same league as B. Wolfenhuat, your opinon might count for something. And I to am haveing the very same issue and own far more than a handful of sims!

  35. Nadia Hax says:

    Yes i have had the same issues with hang-ups. I love it when people suck up to LL hopeing for something in return! And the reason the topics are off course is because once again your beloved Linden Labs has failed to post a blog where upset customers can respond! so no we wont shut up! thank you very much! geessh!

  36. Paulo Dielli says:

    @ 37 @ 39

    I have a premium account but I totally agree with you. People whining about free accounts should get their heads examined. Free accounts also bring inspiring encounters, fun and business. Bots should be thrown out, but not free accounts.

  37. Frank Northmead says:

    Ann Otoole: We need SL to support millions not 20,000.


  38. Frank Northmead says:

    @37: Bots should be thrown out, but not free accounts

    No, not all bots, I use bots to enhance my store and sims – not camping, not copyboting, but useful functions. Again broad generalizations dont apply.

  39. Some depend on free accounts like I. Not having a credit card which also is needed to for example verify a PayPal account the only way is making a wire transfer.
    So the math is earning 300USD by doing SL per month and minimum for a wire is around 150USD with the bank costs here in Thailand it’s a hardship. I live in a country where living is cheap but not this cheap so I have to stick to the free account.

  40. coventina dalgleish says:

    Yes the new hardware is really working well. To open another inventory window used to be almost immediate then as time progressed 5 seconds then for the last month or so 10 to 12 seconds tonight you have again accomplished another amazing feat it now takes 25 seconds to open and when it reads the inventory it looks like an old 300 baud modem is transferring the data. Another success from linden lab

  41. Zi Ree says:

    I suspect it’s the size of you inventory that determines how fast / slow a new window opens. If you have cleared youor cache, the new inventory window opens pretty quickly. Clicking the recent items tab and letting the inventory load up completely (might be in the tens of thousands of items) then it takes longer to open a new window. That’s what a quick test on my mahine showed, at least. This has nothing to do with the server or database software, it’s purely viewer side, once the inventory has loaded.

    Solution: Trim down your inventory (clean out trash) or speed up the viewer code.

  42. Pepper Haas says:

    @20 Sean: I am a NPOF “free” account and I do spend money. As the lady said, some come to sell some come to buy, including free accounts.
    The ONLY benefit paid accounts have is they’re able to purchase mainland land. Big ffing deal, I hate the mainland it is ugly, with ugly ad farms and ugly ban lines and many trashy, ugly builds. So I don’t see the need to pay more into SL than I already do.

  43. Kwakkelde Kwak says:

    @49zi, i’m no techi but if the first inventory window opens right away and the second takes forever….that doesn’t make sense does it?

  44. The problem is:

    People these days expect too much.

    If you have criticism it’s better that it’s at least constuctive instead of simply moaning. I pay lots of money too, I have problems with SL too, if they get so bad that I can’t communicate with others then I’ll try to get it fixed, if it not fixed I might just go back to having a free account again and not spend so much time in SL, which wouldn’t necessarily be a bad thing. If you are trying to make a living from SL my only advice is this: Don’t. Do not rely on SL for your income, it’s extremely risky, make sure you have another primary income to support you.

  45. coventina dalgleish says:

    oh gee thanks for the information Zi no thats not the problem my inventory remains constant and is always clean of trash as is my cache which i manually clean out several time a week no it is the data servers and the way what ever they use for software functions. Times should not change from early in the evening to late in the evening , time frame 6 hours. I do not know where you get your information but as usual it is suspect. One might make an observation since the times radically vary on this topic from hour to hour it definitely has something to do with the server side functions of this game. Gee what did they change today to create this problem, hardware. What did I change today to create this problem, nothing. My inventory has been constant for over 6 months now and I observe many variations in the performance of the game. You may also observe this phenomenon when working on scripts in the time it takes them to open and save. Oh and I run a small cache there is certainly not room for the in depth contents of my inventory. As I have stated before it would be very helpful to have the ability to store many of the inventory items on a local hard drive and call them as required. Half of my inventory is made up of custom textures, if these are called on the client side why when one uploads the same texture twice do they receive different uuid’s. Obviously they are stored on the asset data base servers. So your assumption that inventory is not culled from the asset servers is incorrect.

  46. Tegg B says:

    Frank Northmead Says:”No, not all bots, I use bots to enhance my store and sims – not camping, not copyboting, but useful functions. Again broad generalizations dont apply.”
    True to a degree but I hope people are happy that thousands of bots are “enhancing” stores that spending customers can’t get to because they can’t login.
    It should be like WoW do it kick offline those who have been logged in the longest. What’s the point in leaving people RPing sleeping in bed online while their RL players are away for 2 weeks on holiday.

  47. Foxxe Wilder says:


    Yes you are correct. So I vote we ALL move FAR away from each other and live out in the country and abandon ALL cities (AKA URBAN AREAS)

    /me sets mode -sarcasm

    No where is it written that socialism is bad… unless you are a money hungry greedy corporate monkey capitalist. Then yes, social programs are bad. Gods forbid the people have access to social programs that are normally only available to the rich.

    Pffft!!! Send in the next moron

  48. Moll Dean says:

    Remember what LL says about their robots:

    “…they have legitimate usage!”

    Do not matter if they clone things or lagg SL or take camp devices from real newbees or break down TP system or even block loggins cus high in-world population…
    LL wants you to accept this and SO SAY WE ALL!

    Some times I have a feeling that it is just a nightmare. Real professional companies uses to show respect to their clients… They also talk with their community.

  49. SLWindbag says:

    I really don’t see how a bot will lag the Grid Lol most of them don’t download inventory nor even fully rez their avatars. Heh
    Minimal usage from a bot..

  50. shockwave yareach says:


    I don’t expect too much, no. But I do expect to get the services which I pay for. If you pay 100$ a month for cable, and most of the channels don’t come in, you’re gonna complain. Right? If your cable doesn’t work 50% of the time or worse for 2 solid months, you’re gonna take your business elsewhere. Right now we can’t take our business elsewhere, though I really wish I could. I just downgraded from premium (though I’m payed up till Oct) because these people are incapable of running this show as a business, and I’m sick of pouring good money into bad design.

    All I expect is a working system for my money. That’s all. For years now all I’ve heard is Be Patient. My patience is all used up, and so my wallet is now closed. When they fix this kludge, I’ll go premium again. But I refuse to pay for services that are never rendered.

  51. Mikhail Obscure says:

    Lindens please address the traffic system

    Look at the map!

    Any mainland area!

    See a sea of green dots?

    One store, 20++ camping bots?

    Ever found you can tp into a region cause its full of bots?

    #57 you seriously saying they don’t affect sim performance, wrong!

    This is whats causing the high users online and breaking your servers
    I guess you need them to make your business appear better to your shareholders, investors and banks?

    Imagine no bots and traffic figures were to fall by 2/3!!

    PLEASE do as you promised and review the way traffic is measured
    (and tell us asap what you are planning!!)


  52. Argent Stonecutter says:


  53. SLWindbag says:

    Look if you all are tired of camping and traffic abuse then goto the JIRA to vote on the isse. More votes meand LL will work on doing more about it
    Goto the JIRA and log in as your Second Life account and vote on changing the traffic issues and abuse
    This is not the place to cry about it lol

  54. Moll Dean says:

    #57 SLWindbag

    they do load inventory such like and avatar… but what cause lagg is when they start to scan the grid or more than 30 of them stay in a sim

    Problem today is population vs loggin

  55. Mikhail Obscure says:

    Thankyou #61

    But this is the place we all find when we first go to log on;
    raising important issues here creates awareness and eases frustrations when we feel we are not a lone voice suffering a problem.

    I agree if we all use Jira more it may spurn them into action,

    please everyone use that link if the camping bothers you and we may see a lower traffic and more stable system

  56. DR Dahlgren says:

    One person can ruin the experience for hundreds by simply being selfish and destroying the look of an area, by griefing, by setting off nukes on a little 512, by setting up 15 camping chairs at their store and lagging a whole sim, by grabbing up land with bots, etc etc.

    Socialism is even more vulnerable to that sort of exploit, because unless it is controlled by a very heavy handed government, it is dependent on human beings taking only what they need, and giving back all they can.

    Yeah, I can see that working on a world populated by human beings. NOT!


  57. SLWindbag says:

    I agree #63 Mikhail but of course this is way off topic from what is posted here. And of course LL doesn’t read the forms anymore So it is really hard getting your voice heard I fully understand that . But there is a place for it and if we all work together to educate everyone on these issues more posts will be directed to the proper place.

    Population is not a bot or camper problem lol it is a hardware and rapid growth problem . I use a bot for legitimate purposes and it does not download full avatar and or inventory. It sits as a ruthed avatar and does nothin but send group invites when asked to.. Some people have a miss-conception of what a camper is and what a bot is .. Most campers are actual accounts which yes they download inventory .. but sit there all day long and use little resources . never calling on inventory . never walking or flying or changing clothes. or chatting. There are legitimate places which are very popular and have a huge amount of avatars on their region . This is in no way the problem with log ins and failed database issues . The problem multiple accounts are only on traffic count issue which misleads the public on what is really popular and what is not.. Filling a region 70 campers is just silly because it makes a place look stupid Let them destroy them selves.
    Unfortunately with the mass camp farms out there other legitimate places are left sitting in the dust . never reaching a good point on the search . So they have to even their own playing field by adding a few campers for help. Why? Because it has gotten out of control . It is silly to tell a sim owner to sit on bottom and wait for LL to do something about it. When you spend 295$USd for a region then why would and should be forced to sit on the bottom . To some it is good business sense to help them selves out of the rut this has caused.

    One thing it does is fill up a region so no one really gets in there. wow now thats smart thinking hahah . Lower your chances of legitimate traffic by filling your region with 80 bots or campers. Yes there are bot programs that an account can use to enhance their traffic But those programs do not allow the avatar to fully download inventory nor their avatar and can be spotted as a ruthed avatar. The new Release client has some nice changes with removing popular places . But putting showcase in its place is lame . Also the New release client shows ruthed avatars as a white cloud. Of course this is not a fool proof way of spotting a bot sine some avatars have such crappy computers their avatars never load right lol
    Everyone should pass that link to their frinds and so on and so one and get this on the road for change.. The more votes posted the more LL will do something. But they are not getting many votes because no one is educating the people..
    Spread the link and get the word out to help this issue

  58. SankYur Preiss says: embedded video ( no werky for me.

    Sank Yur

  59. Pingback: Second Life Blog: 1 in 64 is Better Than None « Common.Sensible

  60. DR Dahlgren says:

    Why would you waste a bot to hand out group invites, when a scripted object will do it just fine? Not sure I understand that one. And sure, there are uses for bots that don’t have a negative impact on others. I for one do not advocate removing all bots, simply camping and the associated bots and abuse, the bots that snatch up land, and those that enter my parcel to sniff all the things I have there.


  61. Zi Ree says:

    @53 coventina dalgleish: My assumption is most likely correct. I checked again and I see next to no network traffic while opening a new inventory window. This means, the new window is created from memory, not from reloading the database.

    “Times should not change from early in the evening to late in the evening , time frame 6 hours.”

    This can happen. One thing is you use more and more of your inventory over the time, so more and more of it gets stored in memory and will be copied on opening a new window, so it needs more time. Additionally, if you keep SL running for longer, it will consume more memory on it’s own, leading to slowdowns due to memory swapping. This can of course also lead to delayed opening of the inventory window.

    “I do not know where you get your information but as usual it is suspect.”

    I get my information from years of programming and supporting experience. I probably will have a look at the source code responsible for opening a new window some time out of curiosity.

    “One might make an observation since the times radically vary on this topic from hour to hour it definitely has something to do with the server side functions of this game.”

    As I said, I see next to no network traffic while opening the new window. This means, Linden Lab’s data servers are not contacted and thus can’t be responsible for the delay. Another clue: While the window opens, the whole graphics on screen freeze. This means, there is a so-called “busy loop” in the client, not allowing anything else to run until the new window is open. This in turn leads to the conclusion that a lot of content is copied over in the viewer itself.

    “Gee what did they change today to create this problem, hardware. What did I change today to create this problem, nothing.”

    If it was a problem on the data server’s side, I and everyone else would see the problem too. I don’t see any difference from before.

    “My inventory has been constant for over 6 months now and I observe many variations in the performance of the game.”

    See above. Depending on where you are and how long the client has run, the performance will vary. But this is independant of Linden’s servers.

    “You may also observe this phenomenon when working on scripts in the time it takes them to open and save.”

    Yep, this is a server issue. The viewer sends the updated script to the database and waits for the confirmation. This delay is caused by the data servers.

    “Half of my inventory is made up of custom textures, if these are called on the client side why when one uploads the same texture twice do they receive different uuid’s. Obviously they are stored on the asset data base servers. So your assumption that inventory is not culled from the asset servers is incorrect.”

    You misunderstood what I said. The textures and everything else in your inventory are of course stored on the data servers. But the inventory tree, the display you see in the window, is stored locally in memory. And this tree is being copied while opening a new window, not the whole inventory data. This would probably take hours 😉 The actual data, like textures, objects, animations, and scripts are not called from the database, unless you open them yourself.

  62. coventina dalgleish says:

    don’t really care how it functions the fact is simple from an over view the program has problems that seem to expand with every patch. Things that worked fine for 3 years now cease to function well. The technicals are not important to the end user what is important is the presentation. They can hand pick them for us I do not really care how it is accomplished just that this should be seamless and it is not.

  63. Zi Ree says:

    @66 coventina dalgleish: Well, this is a part of the problem. You don’t care, but you complain about things that simply are not true. I do care and I try to educate myself on how things work, so I can see where the problem lies and report them in a way that is useful to the developers.

    Your point is: Your inventory window opens very slowly. This is not a good thing, I agree. But blaming it on the data servers is wrong. It’s a viewer side problem.

    I suspect it’s pretty hard to “repair”, since building up an inventory tree simply takes time. Why it was faster before and seems to be slower now for you I can’t say, because for me it’s been the same for years (ever since they introduced the “New Window” feature). The only thing I can suspect is that your machine gets loaded by something more than before, thus causing it to work slower. Without having the machine in my paws myself there is little more I can say.

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