Less than a week before SL5B!

We’ve noted the many threads of conversation on the forums, the blogosphere and other networks. It’s a mark of your passion and dedication, and it’s amazing to watch.   We’d like to engage in the conversation across the board, but mostly we hope that we can engage you all to make sure this is a fantastic celebration.

Before we kick off the event though, we want to spend a little time clarifying in order to clear up some of the confusion around the submission process and policy.

All exhibits are PG, because we want to make the SL5B as inclusive as possible.  All Residents, from all communities, and all countries are welcome to attend, exhibit, volunteer and build. We’re thrilled that 60% of our Residents hail from outside the United States, reflected in roundtables from Japan’s Keio University to your fellow Resident musicians around the world.  

As a result, we are reviewing and approving content to make sure it matches our PG guidelines. This insures all exhibits are appropriate for a worldwide audience, and showcases your amazing talent, innovation and creativity. Please note that this in no way reflects a change in overall policy. Second Life will remain as open as it always has. 

Dusty Linden and the SL5B team of Resident organizers are busily constructing the space to accommodate over 250 exhibitors, over 100 live musicians and DJs from around the world (so far!). They have a special note for all the Residents who are dedicating their time to their exhibits.

Special Note for Exhibitors

Since last year, the SL birthday event has grown from one week to two, and some exhibitors are confused about how long they will be allowed to exhibit. If you are part of the arts and culture sections, you should be ready to exhibit and start doing your fine tuning on the 20th. The gates open on the 23rd. You are welcome to exhibit for the whole two weeks of the event, and we hope you will!

Beginning on week 2, (June 30) we will begin to shift focus and add more events and exhibits in the Education, Business Solutions and Nonprofit categories.  If you are part of these categories, you have an extra week to prepare, and you will be located on the regions called Edit, Linked, Rotate and Stretched. However, if you can complete their exhibits on time for the opening on the 23rd, we welcome it!

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142 Responses to Less than a week before SL5B!

  1. Ann Otoole says:

    Happy Birthday.
    May there be many many more.

  2. Katt Linden says:

    @1

    Thanks Ann!

    @2

    MarkByron….The cake is cool 🙂

  3. Tali Rosca says:

    Two words: Stephen Venkman.

  4. Sparkly Rainbow says:

    I know the comment was already removed … but …. who is

    Stephen Venkman

    ?

    I really want to know

  5. Marianne McCann says:

    Wow, that surprised me.

    I hope folks will stop by my own, small contribution to SL5B, as well as some of the other great builds created by and in support of SL’s child avatars. There’s some amazing builds there.

  6. Solomon Devoix says:

    The spin machine is in full swing! “All residents…” is what they meant when they plainly said “submissions from child avatars are respectfully declined” etc. etc.

    /me whistles cheerfully as he waits for Censor Linden to remove this comment and any that don’t shout the glowing praises of the “we never do anything wrong” Lindens and the Main Grid All Hail the Main Grid.

  7. Novus Brim says:

    In the name of International Unity,

    Happy Birthday, Second Life 🙂

  8. Sean Marsi says:

    What’s being planned for the Teen Grid residents? it would be nice to have an announcement for that.

  9. Adz Childs says:

    Jayden no one is stopping you from lobbying. You don’t need to tear other down in order to promote yourself, dummy.

  10. Taff Nouvelle says:

    OK, I have to answer that Jayden, Mariannes show is of a child doing normal child things, so there will be at least one exhibit that shows children here are not all sex crazed perverts, but are people who remember the wonder of childhood and have fun recapturing that., would you rather that there were no child AVs in the show at all, that would send a great message to the world that we are ashamed of OUR children and must keep them hidden.

  11. Marianne McCann says:

    Jayden – sorry ya feel that way, but I am opting to try to reach out to those who attend SL5B and may well need to see us kids, Education always comes first in my eyes.

  12. Solomon Devoix says:

    /me stands next to Mari in a show of support for her admirable attitude, actions, and attempt at spreading understanding.

    The 3 A’s!

  13. Marianne McCann says:

    Jayden – I’ll talk to ya in world. Sounds like we should talk

  14. Toy LaFollette says:

    I will visit the few kids builds to support them as far as the rest, no thank you I have lost ALL confidence in LL to take into consideration thier residents. This SL5B farce has convinced me that LL doesnt care. I will stay but be sure I wont visit anythingt related to LL, gets tiring seeing so many slapped in the face.

  15. Xavier Felwitch says:

    *sigh* come on guys play nice. i know there are alot of angry ppl out there and i don’t blame you for that. I for one will only be visiting a few of the displays(kids community + friends builds), but i really think ppl like marianne/loki/geoff are doing a great job in dark times.

  16. I for one WILL be checking out the LL sponsored festivities. I have no child avatars so no worries there…but what about my Gary Coleman avie? You know…from Diff’rent Strokes? Gary is an adult who portrays a child , Arnold, in this classic 80s sitcom. Will it be okay ? Oh..what about my Webster avie…..? Can anyone tell me? anyone?……………Bueller?…

  17. Crunch Underwood says:

    i snuck into the kids5b sims last night, what was ment to be a 5 minute look around turned into a fun filled 2 hours. Happy birthday Second life but i think you will have trouble getting even close to the sence of community that they have over at kids5b IMO.

    -Crunch

  18. Cherry Czervik says:

    “All exhibits are PG, because we want to make the SL5B as inclusive as possible.”

    Um.

    Do you KNOW a vast amount of your user base?

  19. Yamanote Magic says:

    I don’t normally comment on the blog, but 2 things.

    1st off happy birthday SL, heres to many more.

    2nd, i’m in agreement with other posters on here about not letting somebpdy have an exhibit as they use a child avatar. NOT EVERYONE WHO USES SL IS HERE FOR THE SEX, OK?
    Can’t some things just stay innocent? well if you’re that afraid of pissing people off then get rid of all the furries too.

  20. silke gausman says:

    @5 the guy with ghostbusters?

  21. James Benedek says:

    I would like to thank all those who have been helping on the SL5B infrastructure, the organizers .. and of course DUSTY LINDEN! 🙂

    P.S. The Exhibits look great, loved watching and helping people on their exhibts! – hope you all enjoy them when its open.

    Happy Birthday SL 🙂

  22. Abigail Merlin says:

    Always nice to see LL comunicators avoiding saying something about the cencorship regarding child avatars at SL5B and call backtracking on some of the cencorship clarification as if there never was any blanket ban on builds of kid groups and later pictures of adults and kids in one shot.

  23. While working on the exhibit for the Isle of Lesbos I asked two coordinators if the paintings of Cleopatra, Sappho, Aphrodite, and Pandora — all classics hanging in real-life museums — were PG enough. The reply “The ones with the nipples?” told me that I should airbrush in some extra modesty and re-upload the textures. L$30 later (Pandora seems to have been born without nipples) the sun was shining again and my prim allotment doubled.

    Honestly, I don’t mind that much, though I suppose I should. Maybe folks will stand there and try to find the nipples then take the time to click the swirling hearts in one display to learn about discrimination, life-saving resources, and the culture of lesbians. We will be at hhttp://slurl.com/secondlife/SL5B%20Physical/243/32/24

  24. Senga Tsarchon says:

    I’m looking forward to the event, but would like a bit of clarification, for my own understanding.

    Where can I find a copy of the official PG Guidelines, either for SL5B or for SL itself? I find numerous references on the SL website, but no definitions.

  25. Katt Linden says:

    @25

    Hi, Abigail, I guess you misunderstood. Allow me to clarify.

    There never was any ban on a specific type or group of avatar.

    There was a request to keep things PG.

    Full stop.

    — Katt

  26. Sans says:

    Lulz @ “full stop” 😉

    Saw the Kids5B sims too, they’re beautiful and fun and complex…and entirely G rated. Sacha and Sven and their friends did a wonderful job, I’m really looking forward to donning a kid avatar for a day or so and having some innocent fun on those sims. 🙂

    Happy Birthday, SL.

  27. Katt??? We seem to have *very* different definitions of a ban – and I think my grasp of the english language is at least good enough to understand that something like “no exhibitions showing the life of kid avatars” or “no pictures that show both adult and kid avatars together” is simply that: a blanket ban. So, please, don’t insult the intelligence of the MANY people who saw it as exactly that – the words by Dusty and Everett are still to find at MANY places!

    Why the heck can’t you and some others at LL not admit that they made a mistake! That wouldn’t be something bad, Lindens are humans, too. But what you are trying here with your answer to Abigail is LYING. Or do you deny, that totally PG builds offered by kid avatars, showing the live of kid avatars, were turned down in the first by Dusty? Do you deny, that totally PG pictures, showing adult and kid avatars together, were turned down in the first by Everett? Do you deny, that LL reversed the policy AFTER LL got hit by massive protests from around the whole SL community?

    Admitting a mistake and revising decisions is not a bad thing. But coming here and saying that there was no mistake at all, never was, when hundreds and thousands of resident SAW these mistakes with their own eyes, it’s just so totally out of line!

    Kids5B – Celebrating 5 years of kid avatars in Second Life

  28. Sandor Balczo says:

    I would simply like to add that, for what is worth, the event information has been translated in Italian, French, Spanish, Dutch (the only languages for which I had people willing to help) and has been kept as updated as possible (daily and hourly) here: wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SL5B.

    Coordinators, exhibitor greeters, gardeners and even Lindens who were not directly involved in this event have helped me make sure that information about this event should reach the widest possible audience. And in return, having had experience as a resident helper, I tried to be on group chat as long as possible to help exhibitors who needed a guide.

    Last night, our general coordinator Meghan Dench had to introduce or reinstate stricter rules regarding building and behavior because latecomers and people who seem to be affected by Attention Deficit Disorder (except when you reply to them that they are being rude) were treating me abusively (I was called a spammer, a little chief, arrogant and talking down to people), simply because I spent 8 hours a day on group chat asking people if they wanted help because I am in Europe and most coordinators are across the pond. This is international collaboration for me. But no, latecomers (mostly Americans, as always) had to carry their weight around, be served immediately and be abusive in the face of difficulties. That is why I will continue my experience in SL5B as a linguist only until June 22 and then become an exhibitor only (which i have been doing at the same time).

    I think that before we start talking about rules to follow and what is wrong and what is right, people should follow a tutorial on manners and self-ridicule, in simpler English, for Americans. Torley, can you do one?

    Happy Birthday anyone! And learn to be decent to other people. I am off.

    Sandor Balczo
    SL5B Linguist

  29. Pingback: Merged Teen/Main Grid? « Sean Heying’s Blog

  30. Sean Heying says:

    Katt says “There never was any ban on a specific type or group of avatar.”

    You lie again Katt. Here are Robin’s very words:

    “We believe a community sponsorship, however, is not in the best interest of the event or of Linden Lab, so we have to respectfully decline your participation at that level.”

    How is that *not* a ban?

  31. IYan Writer says:

    Happy birthday, virtual world of Second Life(TM).

    If folks at LL are wondering what to wish while blowing out the prim candles, here are some ideas:
    * grid stability
    * a working asset server
    * mainland zoning
    * and no more stupidity in dealing with the community (can you say “Banks” or “TM”?)

    We love SL; but, remember, an unrequited love can turn into hate..

    IYan

    SL, Second Life, Second Life Grid, SL Grid, TG, Teen Grid, Grid, and the letters “S” and “L” brought to you by Linden Lab.

  32. Happy Birthday again SL, loved SL4B, met alot of amazing people, saw alot of great work & talent displayed, can’t wait to come again!

    As for PG, where i come from it means “Parental Guidance” pretty silly on an adult grid from where i sit, but i didn’t classify the place.

    Sugar

  33. Franciska Foxley says:

    […]Please note that this in no way reflects a change in overall policy. Second Life will remain as open as it always has.[…]

    /me throws her sippy cup in the air and almost wets her pants
    from laughing so hard!

    Thanks Everret, you just made my day:)

    /me picks up her crayons and gets back to work on the nice drawing she’s making for mummy, to bad it can be on display though, really would be nice……..

  34. Day Oh says:

    Are you saying it’s not true you’re disallowing images of young and old looking avatars in the same image?

    These apologies and scowls from the event’s own art director?

    http://shoshanaepsilon.blogspot.com/2008/06/second-life-5th-birthday-12-june-update.html

    “Before we kick off the event though, we want to spend a little time clarifying in order to clear up some of the confusion around the submission process and policy.”

    When?

  35. kakaue Yoshikawa says:

    woot 5 years sl and it growed so well happy BD and will bring the next 5 years much more 🙂

  36. Loki Eliot says:

    All i wanted to do was create an interactive story in SL5B with a theme or rekindling your innerchild. All Marri wanted to do was show her favourate moments in her secondlife. And all this that has resulted from that has been so disheartening. In the end i am greatful ive been allowed to build my exhibit at SL5B.

    To not build at SL5B now, would render the hard work and sacrifices made by many behind the scenes pointless. I look forward to the new Fringe festival, Kids5B and Burning life. If anything this whole experience has changed how many of us see residents and Linden Lab in the future.

    DreamLand Dome – Move sim SL5B

    Kids5B – Celebrating 5 years of kid avatars in Second Life

  37. Nathan Organ says:

    LOL guys if you had unquestionable things to exhibit then you wouldn’t have a problem.
    in australia they have banned all porn because the line between underage porn and young teen port was just too fine.
    i commend ll for at least trying to stamp out this kind of thing.

    Happy Birthday LL hope to see many of you at my exhibit and around the birthday sims.

    I have been able to display my rl photography and my sl builds as well as my music endeavors with no problem at all in the pg area.

  38. Franciska Foxley says:

    […]LOL guys if you had unquestionable things to exhibit then you wouldn’t have a problem[…]

    /me thinks thats rather a blunt statement but he prolly cant help it,walking upside down all day.

    Pokes at Nathan and runs :)))

  39. Daniel Voyager says:

    What about the Teen Grid? Will there be TSL5B this year? 😛

  40. (Open letter to Linden Lab)

    In the interest of transparency and good will, I would like to inform you of a new Resident-run initiative. A Second Life fringe festival.

    For several years, Linden Lab has graciously provided space for the Residents of Second Life to showcase their talents. For their part, the Residents receive recognition from their peers. (Due to my participation in SL3B, I was interviewed for Le Monde on-line magazine and asked to participate in the University of Texas at Dallas’ first display of Resident art. Later, I was asked to be the art director for SL4B and SL5B. My continued presence has given me additional exposure to be asked to be curator and board member for several galleries.)

    I understand the need to provide a squeaky-clean image to the “outside” world. Honestly, I want Second Life to continue and succeed as much as you do. However, many artists and exhibitors find the “squeaky clean” image that you wish to portray as being too restrictive. In truth, there are MANY aspects of Second Life, and the G rated version is only part of it.

    In the image of the International Arts Festival at Edinburgh with its associated Fringe Festival, several of us from within the community wish to have our own fringe festival. The intent is that Linden Lab’s Birthday event is to the Resident event as the Edinburgh International Arts Festival is to the Edinburgh Fringe Festival: the official, major event, and the supplementary smaller event. We would welcome your cooperation in coordinating these two separate events so that they can support each other and create a stronger whole.

    We have yet to actually name our event, but I am rather fond of calling it the ‘fringe festival’ following a concept commonly used in Great Britain. (There are actually concurrent fringe festivals in many cities throughout northern England and Scotland.) The festival organizers will be meeting in the upcoming weeks and months to iron out these details, and we welcome input from all sources on how we can construct a truly wonderful festival to celebrate all the things we love about Second Life.

    For 2009, we will be asking individuals and corporations, rather than Linden Lab, to donate the use of their sims to host a festival concurrent with Second Life’s 6th birthday. In subsequent years, if this is successful, we may include other non-birthday events, especially if we can arrange long term donor support.

    The intention of this event is not to take attention away from your primary event(s). It is to allow additional participation by people who love this place and see it as “home”.

    In thanks for your continued support,

    Pyrii Akula
    Shoshana Epsilon
    SignpostMarv Martin
    Will Webb

  41. Xavier Felwitch says:

    lol nathan are we living in the same australia? me thinks your just trying to stur things up… nice try mate, gota try harder next time though.

  42. Sandor Balczo says:

    I see that the curtain has been torn. It will be very very hard to mend it.

    Sandor 😦

  43. Pingback: Teen Second Life 5th Birthday Celebrations - Update 2 « Daniel Voyager’s Blog

  44. Amiryu Hosoi says:

    Hey everettlinden, looking forward to the party.
    Can you tell me how i can submit a request to have some of my items on exhibit.

    Ami

  45. Gil Druart says:

    “All exhibits are PG, because we want to make the SL5B as inclusive as possible

    ..we are reviewing and approving content to make sure it matches our PG guidelines”

    Katt – it’s censorship. You make yourself look ridiculous by claiming it to be anything else, or by pretending that the effect is not to actually exclude goodly portions of the community, love ’em or loath ’em.

    I, for one would have a lot more respect for LL’s integrity (and potentially yours too) if you made a statement like, “Yeah, it’s censorship. We don’t like the necessity but give the number of neo-con-fundamentalists and desperate politicians and the fact that the US contains roughly 40% of the world’s lawyers, we don’t feel we have an option.”

    That might get you support and sympathy instead of brickbats.

    — A citizen of a country without First Amendment protections, who is constantly amazed by the way US citizens rush to trample on theirs.

  46. Vylixan Fallon says:

    Happy Birthday indeed, although i could throw away some items from my store I created with bought scripts, because YOU ! dear Linden remove them out of the objects 😦 (btw that blog is limited to 125 reactions ?)

    Now I can buy the scripts again somewhere if they still exist and recreated my objects

    Thank YOU !

    But besides that , A happy birthday and maybe lots of birthdays to come. although do something about the PR & Communications department.

  47. Dekka Raymaker says:

    Vylixan, I believe blogs look limited to 125 posts only because 25 posts have been put on hold for verification (i.e. they will never be seen) or have just been deleted, so no censorship there, which ok is a bit unfair, some posts probably should be removed, just ironic at this time.

  48. Fredo Chaplin says:

    Happy birthday !!!!

    I would first like to sincerely congratulate all the team for the great job done globally during these past 5 years. You have created something just amazing….

    Then I would like to ask for our SL5B gift:

    Please stabilize it.

    Just pause adding new features, fix the databases, fix the responsiveness, fix the havoc4 physics and all the current Jira and let’s us enjoy it a little bit.

    JUST DO IT, and you will be in the SL Hall of Fame !

    Champagne, et santé !!!

  49. Angus Mesmer says:

    Happy Birthday dear Linden ™ indeed.
    I learnt what happened to an exhibit from a Caledonian, offer ‘declined’ because of the presence of what the Lab thought was a child AV. Every Caledonian knows otherwise, but… who are we mere AVs… etc, etc.
    Today, I received a notecard from customers, who had paid for two items (no copy, item on display for sale) and took it, but the item never appeared in their inventory. Please, when will we have stable databases?
    Keeping a business is becoming harder and harder in SL, with the constant problems. When it’s not unavailable regions, it’s blocked transactions, or other database problems. All sprinkled with too many crashes.
    Happy Birthday, from someone who is a ball of light most of the time, entirely genderless, non-humanoid, non-animal, non-vegetal, nothing offending.

  50. Marianne McCann says:

    @40: Many of the items being discussed in the above postings were PG, even G, for that matter.

  51. Happy Birthday… I wish the best for the next 5…

    SL-FOREVER…

  52. Avariel Falcon says:

    Happy Birthday SL! Yay!

    I have been looking forward to the SL5B event and this year you may even spot some of my primwork on display if you look closely. ^_^

    Party on!

  53. waterstar eilde says:

    @50 hear hear – freedom of expression is hard won and easily lost

    — Another citizen of a country without First Amendment protections, etc., etc.

  54. Happy Birthday Second Life!!!

  55. Deanna Wilson says:

    @28 Katt:

    “There never was any ban on a specific type or group of avatar.

    There was a request to keep things PG.

    Full stop.”

    While factually true, I don’t think anyone is arguing that there was not a blanket ban on a specific type of avatar. I think what is being argued is the barring of (PG) content by certain types of avatars.

    Is it not true that some child avatars were told, two weeks ago, that they’re presentations would not be allowed, with some follow-up from this blog entries author as well as Robin Linden that while child avatars would be allowed to attend, they would not be allowed to present anything regarding child avatars?

    Is it also not true that many were told expressly by community volunteers for your birthday, as well as the author of this blog post, that images presenting an adult and child avatars together *regardless of content* and child avatars near or on beds *regardless of content* were to be disallowed?

    I believe this is the elephant in the room here. This is what people seem to be concerned with, and is what isn’t being addressed. Could you clarify if either these fairly well documented items never happened, or if there was a policy shift?

  56. Pingback: Nobody cares! - Page 283 - SLUniverse Forums

  57. Azzura Supplee says:

    “All exhibits are PG, because we want to make the SL5B as inclusive as possible.”

    Just voicing my opinion, but isnt the above statement contradictory? PG and All Inclusive? Im pretty sure there is a teen grid and 17 and younger arent allowed on the main grid.

    Im not into any of the Gor or Sexual Adventures some people choose in SL…but that is part of SL. While in RL, I wouldn’t want a sex shop next to an elementary school…there are parts of town where they fit. I understand the concern, but where is the harm of putting in 2 or 3 mature sims for the mature CULTURE? While some people may come to peek at SL for its educational and commercial uses, some are coming to see the more wild side too.

    I believe this is a poor decision and should be reconsidered very soon

  58. nina says:

    @40 Nathan Organ:

    there is no ban on prin in australia. are you american? you obviously dont live in australia.
    perhaps you are confusing a porn ban for harradines success in outlawing the hosting of porn website on australian servers. of course, you can still visit those sites. you can even own them provided they are hosted overseas. in fact, you can film them in australia as well.

  59. nina says:

    just wow…
    you think my memory is really that short?

    Originally Posted by Katt Linden
    June 17th, 2008 at 11:48 PM

    @25

    Hi, Abigail, I guess you misunderstood. Allow me to clarify.

    There never was any ban on a specific type or group of avatar.

    There was a request to keep things PG.

    Full stop.

    – Katt

  60. Ceera Murakami says:

    My exhibit at SL5B is dedicated to “Youthful Creativity and Roleplay”, and has from initial conception been a G-rated display showing some of the many pass times that one can do as a child or as a young adult in SL that have nothing at all to do with sex, and explaining something about those who for one reason or another play roles that are younger than their Player’s actual age.

    And yet, when in response to rumors that any image with an adult and a child in it would be censored, I initially asked for a check on my G-rated display to ensure that there was no possibility of breaking any Linden rules, I was initially told by the volunteer staffer that I could not display a photo of my furry adult avatar and my SL daughter’s furry child avatar (age ten) in the same photo. This, in spite of the fact that it was a formal portrait, in which we were both clothed from toes to wrists and neck in full Japanese Kimonos, were not touching each other, and were not even gazing at each other! She stated this was explicitly because the Lindens in charge of the event had a “no exceptions” policy regarding any image that had a child and an adult in the same pic. Not “any such pics require review to make sure they are PG”, but “any such pics are not allowed at all”. In what universe would that image have been considered anything other than G-rated? So yes, there was initial censorship, and it was going way beyond “Making sure it is PG”.

    To their credit, that same SL5B volunteer staffer contacted me several days later and said they had reviewed the image in question in a meeting with the Linden staff, and that they now agreed that there was nothing wrong with my G-rated image. I was encouraged to display it as I had originally done. They even allowed, with no further review, a second pic in which my daughter (in teen form this time) and I were gazing at one another as any loving child and adoring parent might, in a wholesome, non-sexual relationship. We’re both in Human form in that one, both dressed in jeans and T-shirts. So yes, there has been a policy reversal, or at the very least, a “policy clarification”, which has relaxed some of the overly-tight restrictions and censorship.

    I am also supporting and displaying at Kids5B. There’s an info sign about that event at my SL5B site, and I have a photo display there that includes images that even now, the Linden Guidelines would not permit, such as a “baby photo” of my SL daughter, innocently standing in her crib in her room…

    Yes, there’s tons of sex in SL. There’s tons of adult stuff going on in New York City, too. But we don’t ban children from setting foot in New York, just because they *might* walk into an adult business. So why should we assume that with all the wonderful possibilities in SL, any child avatar is up to no good? Over 95% of what I do in SL has nothing at all to do with sex, thank you. The other 5%? Well, that’s why my SL Partner and I now have a daughter in SL …

  61. Solomon Devoix says:

    Katt, I’ll add my voice to others here. Robin, everett, and the ‘civilian’ organizers of the event stated, in public, on more than one occasion, that submissions from child avatars, regardless of content, would be declined.

    Full stop.

    That submissions from Gor and BDSM communities would be declined.

    Full stop.

    And now you are trying to spin things and saying there never was a blanket ban on certain avatars as participants, or certain types of content, PG or not?

    Please.

    Either you are (a) extraordinarily poor at communicating what you’re trying to say (ironic for the Communication Linden) or (b) you think we’re all a bunch of morons and don’t remember, or have access to, the original statements referenced above. Neither one of these shows ANY respect whatsoever for your residents.

    I’m starting to wonder… were the jobs that you and everett held before at the Ministry of Truth? (ref. George Orwell’s “1984”)

    You say there was no blanket ban. Well, allow me to quote Inigo Montoya from “The Princess Bride”:

    “You keep using that word; I don’t think it means what you think it means.”

  62. JueL says:

    I’m Excited! I’ts been a great (4years) for me…5 years for all you Early Starters of the SL. OOO Remember the NOOB Days? We were like Perma Noobs!
    HAPPY 5th B Day SECOND LIFE! I’m thrilled to have been asked to perform again, so see ya’s on the 24th, NOON performance and See ya all on the Big Bad Azz Grid! Much peace and love to everyone!!!!
    CAKE!

  63. Dale Innis says:

    Happy birthday indeed! SL has had a profound (and positive) effect on both my personal and professional life, and the lives of thousands an’ thousands of other folks; there’s a huge amount fo celebrate.

    I also find it a little strange to say that the PG requirement (i.e. excluding certain things) is for the sake of being inclusive; excluding in order to be inclusive? 🙂 I hope the official birthday areas will at least have pointers to (or pointers to pointers to) some of the less sanitized celebrations that will be going on (unofficially) at the same time? Just a thought…

  64. jazzman says:

    Man, I am the laziest avatar. I can’t believe I haven’t got anything together to be involved in this.
    Happy Birthday LL.
    If there are six sl days to one rl day that puts you folks at 30 years old and inline for a mid-life crisis.
    I’ll have a Ferrari and one of the Gamer Girl avatars please.
    Cheers and let’s have lots more birthdays.

  65. Nova Clawtooth says:

    This has to be recognized as one of the greatest publicity stunts of the modern SL era. Hats off to the Lindens because Second Life is one of the bigest hustles of the modern era RL or SL.

    this discussion seems to be centered mainly around child avs and I would like to state that I do not have a child av, nor do I wish to have one so the following comments are not misconstrued as self-serving.

    If SL is supposedly a reflection in part of RL, then why are certain segments of the SL experience being disallowed?

    Perhaps I have misinterpreted SL to mean “Second Life” perhaps it means “Selective Life”?

    The fix seems rather simple. Why not just offer a seperate area for adult content? Then, just as in RL, it will be up to the individual to decide if they are willing to run the risk of being offended.

    I understand the Lindens must cover themselves legally or risk their business and their money (which is what it’s really all about…its not about the experience it’s about money at the heart of it all) so perhaps this is a simulation of RL after all…

  66. Happy 5th Birthday SL !!

    I’m almost ready for the big day, look forward to seeing everyone there!!

    It’s sad that the event has been tainted, but that’s life….

  67. Tasrill Sieyes says:

    from Katt Linden

    There never was any ban on a specific type or group of avatar.

    There was a request to keep things PG.

    Full stop.

    – Katt

    Let me also just say we have always been at war with Eurasia we have always been allies with Eastasia.

    War is Peace
    Freedom is Slavery
    Ignorance is Strength

    that will be all from our own little Big Sister

  68. Tim Gagliano says:

    You Know, I have to say that the slb5 committee is not about inclusion, they are about exclusion based upon drama… I am still waiting on Dusty or Pathfinder to contact me in game to discuss the reasons why a certain radio station will NOT be participating… I did not want to drag this issue here.. but I had no choice.

  69. Charlotte Bartlett says:

    Interesting comments….I am doing Through the Looking Glass – well trying we only got the plot Monday…

    But regardless of the politics, underlying issues we all have to deal with on a dialy basis on the platform, and shall we say communication challenges it’s a birthday celebration and it’s great to focus on the talent of the residents and I can’t wait to explore the rest.

    Thanks to all those volunteers too, Prad and Meghan I know personally and can’t even describe the effort/hours they and the teams around them have put into this.

    x

  70. Charlotte Bartlett says:

    ps somebody above commented on Fringe Festivals for 2009 – I would be happy to denote sim space for any focused on design mediums 🙂

  71. Tali Rosca says:

    The really stupid thing is how this has turned into a “LL vs Residents” battle, when it could so easily have rallied everybody. Nobody is here to sabotage SL. We would all like to hold it up and say “look what we have”, fully aware that baiting sensationalist journalists would not be in our best interest.
    But instead of appealing to this community spirit, LL came down hard, with implied moral judgments and a set of rules so astonishingly restrictive that they would probably disallow every movie ever made. (Irrespective of Everett’s revisionist denial of his documented statements, and Katt’s continued verbal tap-dance over what constitutes a “ban”.)
    It may have been blind panic over some recent political posturing; it may be some specific Lindens’ agenda to create the grid they personally consider morally or business-wise acceptable. I do not know, and LL’s refusal to address it only breeds mistrust and unease about the future. I strongly urge LL to display their vaunted transparency, and describe the reasoning, chain of command and changes which has happened during the lifespan of the SLB5 planning. Even if some may possibly lose face, I think it is necessary to rebuild some confidence.

  72. Valiant Westland says:

    As the owner of a RL business that provides web-dev services to the SMB community, I am thrilled that Linden Labs is trying to “clean up” SL’s image and promote a G/PG environment. Many of our clients are intrigued by the prospect of using 3D environments for training, team communication and virtual product prototyping/demonstration.

    SL as a purely self-contained micro economy won’t survive the challenge of competitors like Google, Sony, etc. The vast majority of Real Life businesses are NOT interested in bringing their employees, clients, products or services into an SL “neighborhood” filled with content that would be offensive.

  73. ::happily splashing in the water at the Isle of Lesbos @ SLB5 exhbit::

    I’d like to thank Taff Nouvelle, Meghan Dench, Marianne McCann, and all the others that have personally assisted me with our exhibit. Everyone I’ve talked to has been very positive and supportive.

    http://slurl.com/secondlife/SL5B%20Physical/228/32/24 (Across from Hogwarts! Talk about child avies … :::giggle:::) Come for the free goodies and stay for the important information!

  74. Naima Aya says:

    Hi there,

    Happy birthday Linden and congrats to all residents that contributes to the grid becomes a multi cultural meeting point.

    WooT waiting for countdown Yupieeee. Let’s party 🙂

  75. Koffeekid Smalls says:

    I truly feel bad for the people volunteering their time to coordinate the SL5b project. They surely must be overwhelmed responding to concerned residents over Linden Labs flip flops on policy. Bless your hearts, I am sure you didn’t bargain for this when you signed up.

    I am happy to hear there will be live performances at both sl5b AND kids5b. We are assembling a talented team of performers for our concert on the 28th! Can’t wait to show the world , we are united!

    Kids5B – Celebrating 5 years of kid avatars in Second Life

  76. shockwave yareach says:

    Sorry. Couldn’t care less. My friends and I still make our own fun, the way SL is supposed to be run. As little care as you pay to grid performance, we pay to your PR push.

  77. everettlinden says:

    @44 Shoshana–as I commented on your blog, I think the Fringe Festival is a fantastic idea! It will highlight the range of creativity and expression on SL, and I’m sure you will have no lack of supporters of land, art, and exhibits.

    Thanks again for all your continued work on this year’s Art Exhibition.

    Now, about my invite….? 😉

  78. Marianne McCann says:

    @60 and 65 – that’s how I recall things happening.

    @81 – Me too. It has to be hard on the folks wearing the mantle. Phaylen, for one, has been putting in some very long hours. Katier too. I would have pulled out of the event a long time ago if not for them.

  79. Flame Swenholt says:

    The Cake…it’s a lie!

    Anyhow, congrats! ^^

  80. Solomon Devoix says:

    everettlinden Says:

    “I think the Fringe Festival is a fantastic idea! It will highlight the range of creativity and expression on SL, and I’m sure you will have no lack of supporters of land, art, and exhibits.”

    everett, given what you tried to keep out of this year’s celebration, I am firmly of the opinion that you have no business expecting to visit anything that would violate your precious “PG-that-is-cleaner-than-G” definition of a celebration. As in, “you made your bed, now lie in it.”

    everettlinden Says:
    “Now, about my invite….?”

    I tell you what. I’ll personally create a celebration for you, in exchange for your dropping your revisionist bull, quoting your exclusionary post where you said exhibits from child avatars would be declined (“full stop”, to borrow a Katt-ism) and just say why.

    Oh.. and just for your information…

    “Any non-straight answer will be respectfully declined.”

  81. Mina Sprawl says:

    SL is turning 5. Like every five year old it wants it’s cake and wants to eat it too. There is nothing wrong with letting the toddler grow. As it does it will break a lot of valuable things and hurt a lot of people without intending to because it’s still in the me phase. In five more years it will start to become stable if raised properly or it will become uncontrollable and given up for adoption. This is how America works and this is an America born child. Spoiled by multi national fame. We should all be as supportive as are raw nerves allow for this growing giant. Second Life holds true to it’s name sake. It’s First Life only not in your real body.

  82. Scythe Elfenbeim says:

    I hope tp’s to the main and fringe events will be readily available and maybe even distributed as an IM (just once) to all residents (please do! I don’t know where these events are!).

    Happy Birthday SL and all residents! This is our birthday too 🙂

    A child in a big body (I suspect a local griefer is under-age) can be a much bigger nuisance than vice-versa!

    … Hmmm… mind you, s’pose that would include me too as I’m just a big kid at heart. I mean, I play with building bricks and pretend friends, in an imaginary world!!! rofl

    The irony hasn’t escaped me. But it sure is fun! hehehehehe

  83. Meghan Dench says:

    Hiya.
    Id just like to say that Policies and Guidelines and lots of other info for SL5B can be found at;

    http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SL5B

    Id also like to say that in my opinion people are grabbing the while PG thing and the No Nipples issue and blowing it up into something that it really isn’t. Can’t we just accept these guidelines and enjoy the event? It will be enjoyable without nipples, and other ‘mature’ content that has been prohibited.

    Let’s all enjoy the event!

    Meg
    SL5B Coordinator

  84. Meghan Dench says:

    @ 88.

    Use; ‘Map’ > Search “SL5B” and the sims will show up, the events kick off on the 23rd, so the sims should be open to public access then : D

  85. Sedary Raymaker says:

    All exhibits are PG, because we want to make the SL5B as inclusive as possible.

    Two contradictory thoughts in the same sentence. Impressive.

  86. Tasrill Sieyes says:

    @ 89 Meg

    The thing is the no nipple things makes no sense. Expesialy since it even apply s to classical artwork… And most expesialy since nipples aren’t even paticuraly … a big deal to many cultures in this even celebrating multiculturalism. We have already had kids baned once… and nipples are bad even on the classics as the exhibit for the island of lesbos shows. And don’t forget that children with parents are a no no or… babies in cribs. So well… in our world what exactly are we allowed to do? But well last year they tried to take down a nude state IN BURNING LIFE so well I guess we have our answer.

  87. Meghan Dench says:

    @ 92.

    I understand your point, but that isn’t the case. Child Avatars ARE allowed to participate, with certain guidelines. Certain images are prohibited for obvious reasons. There’s been confusion over that issue but that’s resolved. No one has been ‘banned’ everyone is able to attend the event and applications for child avatars have been approved and in some cases if they do not meet with our guidelines we’ve working with the applicants to modify their exhibit so that it is acceptable to be displayed at the event, many applications didn’t get a plot this year due to the huge amount of people who applied. We haven’t discriminated anyone, some people got a place, some people didn’t.

  88. Sedary Raymaker says:

    @89: “It will be enjoyable”

    I, personally, am not saying it won’t be enjoyable for some people. I simply object to the event being called “inclusive” when it quite explicitly isn’t.

  89. Schizm Neutra says:

    No photos of Child Avatars with their parents
    No photos of Children jumping on their beds
    No Ropes, collars or suggestions of being bound

    I don’t understand why people don’t get this. In the first place we AALL KNOWWW that the ‘child avatar’ is REALLLY an adult (or SHOULD be in the adult side of SL). ANYTHING they have built is built by an ADULT, right? Why pretend then, to be a ‘child’ avatar?

    As for the children jumping on the bed and the ‘ropes, collars or suggestion of being bound’–PULEEEZEEE! NO one (I know) wants to even THINK of what this could lead to, much less promote that junk!

    Bad enough that even in my PG area I’m surrounded by ‘Mature’ content and they even intrude with ads supporting that kind of lifestyle.

    NO communications please about ‘rights’ and such…I get it! Some people just feel the need to get the crap kicked out of them for what ever reason, and come to SL to ‘get er done’! OR they want to peek up a little girl’s dress and see faux…stuff.

    I just resent the heck out of this kind of stuff and would like to keep it on the back burner…or under the garbage can where it belongs.

    It’s gratifying that SOME people at SL have the guts to show a little respect to the rest of us normal people. You all who subscribe to the ‘darker’ side of life should just go off and have your own freaky celebration somewhere else where you can beat each other up or feel each other up in solitude.

  90. Ciaran Laval says:

    How on earth can PG only be as inclusive as possible? The mind boggles.

    The fringe idea is a great idea, it’s a shame Linden Lab couldn’t be as forward thinking.

    There are issues here whereby you’re undermining your own product by distancing yourself from certain innocent situations and you yourselves are taking the same, ludicrous attitude regarding kid av’s that leads to kid av’s being the victims of verbal abuse.

    You should have shown some spine.

    You also should have had a more adult area, adult doesn’t have to mean porn.

  91. Schizm Neutra says:

    In the words of Joan Rivers, ‘Oh, grow up’! LOL…I would love to be a kid again, but…RL intrudes allll the time…*sigh*. I just CAN’T go back in time and be a child, life won’t let me… 😦

  92. Marianne McCann says:

    @95 Schizm Neutra: Let’s not conflate “kids jumping on beds” with the issues of ropes or collars. We’re talking images like this: http://sluniverse.com/pics/pic.aspx?id=148786

    As for being a child avatar — why not? Some people are furries, some are dragons, some are who knows what? Your world, your imagination and all that. For even more concise answers, I’d suggest http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Marianne_McCann/Child_Avatars

    I hope this clarifies things for you. 🙂

  93. Tepic Harlequin says:

    @92

    I’m afraid there was no “confusion”, as submissions from child AVs were rejected at first because they were from that community (as were Gorean and the bondage groups). Please re-read the original statements, by, I think, Everret Linden. Thankfully, that position was re-thought, and the submission date was extended and those from child AVs showing their community were accepted – I am looking forward to visiting and enjoying ALL the builds, wtg everyone!

    I assume, though do not know, that the Gorean and bondage communities still don’t have builds, as they may not pass the pg test. For that I am sorry, as although I am not active or particularly interested in those areas of sl, they do make up quite a sizable community, and are a contributing and active part of our world.

    The nipples thing? Not sure what that is about, but from what I have read, it sounds like the Victorian period when many classical statues suddenly acquired fig-leaves (which required in most cases the hammer to be applied in eye crossing ways!). I’m sorry, my reaction to this is just to laugh, it is sooooo funny!

    Finally, one really positive effect of the early “confusion” (hehhe) has been to bring together the various kid AV groups in a truly magnificent way, with people working together to create Kids5B. There have been differences of opinion, and still are, as will occur in any group. But overall, it has been an incredible, co-operative venture, resulting in a real community celebration. I urge people to visit, and enjoy.

    Have fun, everybody!

  94. pandora dallagio says:

    jayden , you are misunderstanding i think)) ,they want men to wear shirt because they are afraid thay catch a cold! ahahha don’t you agree Taff?
    for sandor , just ignore what your other hand does , nobody asked you to volunteer so if you do it is just your choice , nobody cares about the show off you have been all along and i feel pity for you when you call yourself a linguist lol ,i have seen the way you master french , pathetic !
    SL needs good souls ,intellectually honest , keep your wailing wall private
    pandora disgusted free mind and far from being desabled believe me

  95. Xe Oh says:

    I’m running under the impression that PG is in accordance with PG rated material in the United States and in accordance with the Motion Picture Association of America.

    PG: Parental Guidenc Suggested; Some Material May Not Be Suitable For Children.

    A PG-rated motion picture should be investigated by parents before they let their younger children attend. The PG rating indicates, in the view of the Rating Board, that parents may consider some material unsuitable for their children, and parents should make that decision.

    The more mature themes in some PG-rated motion pictures may call for parental guidance. There may be some profanity and some depictions of violence or brief nudity. But these elements are not deemed so intense as to require that parents be strongly cautioned beyond the suggestion of parental guidance. There is no drug use content in a PG-rated motion picture.

    Source: Motion Picture Association of America; http://www.mpaa.org/FlmRat_Ratings.asp

    Please clarify.

    Thanks.

  96. Ceera Murakami says:

    To reiterate a point, G-rated pictures depicting avatars and their SL “Children” ARE being allowed now. I have two approved pics of that type in my exhibit. They did reverse that earlier “Policy”, even though they now deny that there ever realy was such a policy.

    I would like to know if a pic of a child, properly dressed or in non-sexy PJ’s (like a wrist to ankle set of striped long-johns), and in what is clearly their own bedroom, would be allowed, if there was nothing at all sexually suggestive about the pic? For example, a little girl playing with toys in her own room? Or a Tiny anthro furry standing in her crib?

    Or how about a mother tucking her daughter into bed for the night? Fully clothed parent, nothing suggestive or sexy. The sort of pic that could have appeared on any 50’s magazine cover, and no one would have batted an eye.

    Are such images allowed, or is the ruling still “No images of a kid and a bed of any sort are allowed”? The revised wiki site that Meghan referred to doesn’t say.

  97. Meghan Dench says:

    @ Ceera.

    Images of Child Avs have been approved, lone images. Each pictures is reviewed first, I am not too sure about the mother tucking her child into bed, it would need to be reviewed. Images have been accepted though.
    It doesn’t say on the wiki as each image is reviewed before it’s approved.

  98. @102: Yes, Ceera. Why does that title song of “Malcolm in the middle” is playing in my head? “Yes, no. Maybe. I don’t know. Can you repeat the question?”

    /me laughs

    Kids5B – Celebrating 5 years of Kid Avatars in Second Life

  99. Xe Oh says:

    ROFL: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SL5B

    Second Life Wiki has a problem

    Sorry! This site is experiencing technical difficulties.

    Try waiting a few minutes and reloading.

    (Can’t contact the database server: Lost connection to MySQL server at ‘reading initial communication packet’, system error: 111 (192.168.100.4))

  100. Sandor Balczo says:

    I would like to say to Pandora (post 100) that if she wants to gratuitously insult me she should do it in French as her English is as poor as her manners.

    The courage this person has of responding to my earlier post where I didn’t mention names and where I was quoting a general problem amazes me. I do not know her age, but I would check on that, Linden Lab.

    Well, dear Pandora, this IS supposed to be an international event and the original organizer may confirm I was hired for signs translations and any subsequent organizer may confirm that I helped in any way I could with the wiki and translations of notecards, but maybe you are sorry that no French person offered their help to improve the relationship between exhibitors who speak different languages? Well, an Italian did. And Italian who writes English correctly, who lived in the US for five years, in France for two, and makes an effort of speaking and writing French correctly (ah, if you are talking about the French on the wiki page, I am sorry but it is not me who wrote the text, but a certified Canadian French translator. Perhaps she would be happy to be called pathetic by you.)

    But it doesn’t surprise me to see this kind of posts, when the atmosphere has been already made vitriolic and I was told just today that some people do not like me speaking in foreign languages on the SL5B chat group. So much for international relations, well done everyone! SL is showing its real colors by the hour. Thanks to posts like these and the general hostility I see when people learn I am Italian, I have the feeling that the Italians have never been welcome here, and to be honest with all of you I have never seen such a wide range of xenophobia towards us Italians as in SL.

    I am sorry for you, Pandora and other people who hate Italians, but you will be forced to see me around. I am exhibiting on SL5B. And I would not miss it for the world.

    It is not my fault if the Italian soccer team is the World champion. Live with it.

    Sandor Balczo
    SL5B Linguist Coordinator

  101. Marianne McCann says:

    @97: Life won’t let you; Second Life will. in a nutshell, you have described exactly why so many do play kid avvies. I know I had a wicked waterballoon fight in front of my Bay City store last night with my in world siblings, one of my inworld aunties, and a new kid. It was awesome fun.

    @104: Kids5B is gonna seriously rock, too. I’m amazed at how good it looks, how many little things there are there to see and do. I hope hope hope many people will step over there and see just what kid avvies are, and what we really do away from the sensationalism that is the tabloid media.

    You should make sure to visit Kids5B, Everett, Katt, and other Lindens. I’d even help ya’ll with some special kid avvies jes f’r ya. 😉

    Anyway, enough from me here. I have a promised SLC blog entry to work on, my Rl stuff to do, and all that. One may hope that, in a week, things will finally be on track in time for SL5B’s opening — and here’s to the 2009 Fringe Festival!

  102. Pingback: Dusan Writer’s Metaverse » Second Life: We Were Never LOOKING for Weapons of Destruction

  103. Katt Linden says:

    Folks, I certainly do not appreciate being called names here. Kindly refrain from name calling and accusations here on the blog.

    I was in the meeting where the changes were decided upon, and the meeting where those changes were communicated to the team of organizers. I realize that a number of confused rumors have gone around, but there is not and never was any “ban” on any group. It’s an exciting rumor, but it’s simply not true.

    I gather that there was a “no nipple” rule set by the organizers last year, that’s old and not in force.

    Informing someone that an exhibit is “respectfully declined” is not a “ban.”

  104. Deanna Wilson says:

    @109 Katt Linden

    Respectfully submitted, I think you *might* be missing part of the point here. There was a “respectful decline” of all kid content, this was listed with a statement that made it sound like there never was such a “decline.” There were statements made by organizers about certain types of child avatar pictures being disallowed, now they’re allowed with caveat. These are not “confused rumors,” but documented. We’re not talking about “groups,” but restricted content. I think people are feeling like they’re getting some conflicting information not from the rumor mill, but from SL5B itself.

    As to the nipples, I can refresh your memory on this, as can the Isle of Lesbos folks. I’d suggest https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-1231 – particularly the June 7th comment by the SL5B coordinator who posted above, In it, she states clearly that male and female nipples are disallowed (even noting today’s clarification that “a nipple is a nipple” does not refer to nipples specifically). Given it was a comment made earlier this month, I would have to assume it refers to this year’s event.

    I am in no way attempting to denigrate you or others in this matter – but I hope this helps make it somewhat clear where this level of frustration on the part of residents is coming from. Language is being parsed within an inch of its life in order to claim there never was an issue to begin with, when the evidence speaks otherwise.

    I hope everyone has a fun SL5B

  105. Solomon Devoix says:

    Katt, I’m going to ask you what you mean, or what you THINK you mean, by “banned” then. For example:

    Banned – not allowed

    anything submitted by a child avatar will be declined = not allowed

    How is this NOT a ban?

    If you can give us a definition of “banned” that includes “will be allowed” or a definition of “anything submitted will be declined” that does NOT mean “not allowed”, we’ll talk.

    Otherwise, I don’t think you’re going to convince ANYONE that you and everett aren’t spinning things and/or being revisionist.

    “We’ve always been at war with Eurasia…”

  106. Katt Linden says:

    I do respect the frustration and annoyance this whole situation has presented for folks.

    I’m so sorry that it has been this way!

    I hope that you can take from me that everyone is truly welcome. I am not twisting language to exclude anyone.

    I hope very much to see you all at the Birthday, and I’ll see you at the fringe festival and the Kids 5B as well.

  107. Meghan Dench says:

    @ 110.

    I’ve tried to explain what I meant in my comment on that Jira issue many times now, there’s a PG Policy and that means no Nudity. I added in brackets about nipples in a half joking way to try and break the ice a little, and I wish I hadn’t now. My point was it’s PG and Nudity is not allowed, I’m sorry for the confusion this caused. We’ll be dealing with ‘cases’ where content contains mild nudity such as a nipple 1 to 1 case by case. There’s no general rule saying no nipples, there’s a general no nudity rule.

    Issues such as certain content being disallowed have been dealt with, we’ve been dealing with exhibitors one a 1 to 1 basis with issues, and certain images for example have not been allowed. There’s no general reason for this, each ‘case’ is different.
    Sorry again for any confusion caused.

    General Information can be found at http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SL5B

    I hope you all enjoy the event! : D

  108. Katt Linden says:

    Solomon:

    Child avatars may submit exhibits, exactly like everyone else, and they have done so. Their exhibits have and will continue to be accepted. All exhibits have to be PG, and if they are, then no worries. That is true for every Resident, regardless of what avatar they wear.

    No ban = no ban.

  109. dusanwriter says:

    Katt – truly I don’t think anyone wants to get into name calling. But maybe you could give Everett’s extension a ring and have him join in the discussion and clarify the following statement, made under a “Linden” name, on Massively:

    “Child avatars are welcome at the celebration. However, we do respectfully decline the submissions we received to create exhibits for the event.”

    It was quite clear from this that the connection was between the avatar type and the submission. Otherwise, I assume he would have clarified that it was some other element of the submission that was offensive? And if it wasn’t because of the avatar type or their expression within their exhibits, then why were some of those submissions subsequently accepted?

    Again, no one wants to create wounds but I feel some think that they have been wounded, and would probably love nothing more than “Yeah, we sort of muddled it up, we’re really sorry, and I really hope we can put all this behind us.”

    The upside is that the wounds resulted in a flowering of creative drive on the kids sims for the celebration that is really quite amazing, so I guess there was one positive to all this.

  110. dusanwriter says:

    @ Katt post #112 – didn’t see that one. 🙂 Thanks for it though.

    And I don’t think people are debating the status of submissions today, it’s the implication that it was always thus.

  111. Hmm, my Happy Birthday wish to Second Life is that it becomes, indeed, inclusive. And I believe that will only happen if the grid is distributed among several countries and companies managing it…

  112. PURPLE Cyclone says:

    Happy Birthday Second Life ! May your life be long and prosper …

    Let SL enter in a new age, of Art and Creation, where imagination can be expressed.

    But surely, to keep safe SL from madness of RL, I hope troubles with rumors and kid policy will find a way to be solved.

    Thank you SL, for the good pleasure of entertainment and I hope to live more many adventures in SL …

  113. Incony says:

    from someone who cannot use her own name but uses an imaginary one…

    “Folks, I certainly do not appreciate being called names here. Kindly refrain from name calling and accusations here on the blog.”

    the accusation? that one does not tell the truth but creates it…?

    name calling i think..:)

  114. Meghan Dench says:

    @ Dusanwriter.
    That’s an old comment, it was decided after that, that Child Avatars may apply just like everyone else could apply and the exhibits have to fit into the PG Policy, like all of the other exhibits at the event too.

    This has been made clear many times.

    Happy Second Life Birthday! : D

  115. dusanwriter says:

    @ Meghan – I’m responding to Kat’s claim that and I quote:

    “I realize that a number of confused rumors have gone around, but there is not and never was any “ban” on any group. It’s an exciting rumor, but it’s simply not true.”

    There were no confused rumors. There were statements by staff members of Lindens and rejections of applications because of avatar types. I understand they were allowed later, but to make claim that there were a bunch of whispered rumors is false.

    The community didn’t make this up, the Lindens did, and I pointed this out because I felt it was off-loading accountability for mismanagement to some sort of vague blogosphere rather than properly taking responsibility for their actions and missteps – something that I think is important in both managing a company and a community.

  116. Solomon Devoix says:

    Katt,

    I *know* that is the situation NOW. But do you remember everett’s comment that anything submitted by a child avatar would be respectfully declined?

    You keep saying (one way or another) “there never was a ban”. Those of us looking at everett’s comment keep saying “what else can you call that”?

    Are you going to address THAT in your “there never was a ban” stance? That has been brought up multiple times, and is the source of the idea that you are trying to spin things, Ministry-of-Truth style.

  117. Koffeekid Smalls says:

    Katt Linden Says: I hope very much to see you all at the Birthday, and I’ll see you at the fringe festival as well.

    I think some sort of mention of our Kids 5b project would have been very appreciated. At the very least, considering what we been through, tossing us a small bone would have helped settle some hard feelings.

  118. nina says:

    seriously katt…
    that you think my memory is so short is insulting to me.

  119. Solomon Devoix says:

    Oh… and what about the Goreans and BDSM communities? They were removed from the app as choices.

    (Granted, it would be difficult for them to come up with an exhibit that is both PG and doesn’t involve any kind of being bound. But they should at least have the option if they want to make the attempt. )

  120. Winter Ventura says:

    I am so angry.. I can’t even find the words to express how frustrated and disappointed I am.

  121. Ceera Murakami says:

    A few days ago, I was building my exhibit, and heard on the SL5B builder’s group IM’s that a Gorean group was trying to set up a display. No chains, no collars, no slave girls. They tried for gladatorial combat. And sudenly we had rulings of no functional weapons allowed… But still, there IS a Gor group there somewhere, striving to make an acceptable exhibit.

    If you seriously try to work with the event staff, they have been doing what they can to accommodate both the Linden restrictions and the groups that want to display exhibits. Doing something for Gor or BDSM would be very hard under the current restrictions… Yet the “Transgender Lounge” and the “Isle of Lesbos” each figured out ways to make exhibits that met all the criteria… So it isn’t impossible…

    Not much time left now, however. midnight on the 20th is the cut-off for new building efforts, and it opens to the Public on the week of the 23rd.

  122. I very much fear that those who thrive on controversy are ruining a good time for a great many. As an exhibitor I’ve been pretty tickled that I could fly around and look at other displays … giant snails, huge step pyramids, castles, glowing shapes that magically dance, jungle waterfalls. peaceful gardens, thought-provoking art, deeply profound memorials, educational resources, fun activities. and resident after resident that are delighted to see others and frequently offer to help. We have some of the BEST of the Second Life ™ world here no matter how much others try to tarnish it. I don’t to show nipples or bits at the Isle of Lesbos exhibit (http://slurl.com/secondlife/SL5B%20Physical/228/32/24) to achieve my goals of relaxation, entertainment, and education so I didn’t mind airbrushing them out of some textures. The landlord gave me free space to show off my art provided I follow certain guidelines. Fine. I’m adult enough to understand and do my part.

  123. glow Raymaker says:

    1 band playing in a sim can lag it out, pARTIUCULAY IF LIGHT FX ARE RUNNING! So how will lots of different acts work in sls fragile operating system WORK???

    iT ALSO TOOK A WHILE OF READING THROUGH THE MESSAGE UP TOP TO WORK OUT WHAT SL5 WAS. i ASSUMED IT WAS THE NEXT OPPERERATING SYSTEM TO REPLACE HAVOC 4! sO ISNT IT A GOOD IDERA TO START A BLOG with a description of what you are trying to advertise?
    Or is wasting our time not a consideration?

  124. hope antonelli says:

    @127 They dont -want- Goreans there period, which is why they keep changing the rules when someone comes up with an idea that fits the cureent guidelines. Which is one reason I won’t be attending their little party. Even if I dress like everyone else, I’d have to take off my collar and that just isnt going to happen, not for this anyway.

    ——— Commented by Katt Linden ———–

    Hope, I’m not sure where you got that idea, but I’m glad to have the chance to let you know for sure that it is not accurate: Goreans are welcome. Welcome to attend, and welcome to exhibit.

    Like every other group in Second Life, their exhibits would have to be PG, but also like everyone else, they are very welcome.

    Best,
    — Katt Linden

  125. Krt McDowwll says:

    @ pretty much every comment so far…

    if people want environments where they can decide what exhibits are accepted or declined, then i suggest they make their own.

    it would certainly be more useful than scolding an organization such as LL for being a little bit selective with some content, which they are entitled to do.

    it isnt as though they are limiting what you can do in their program, they are just limiting what you can exhibit at an event that THEY are putting on. LL is responsible for everything that is going on at that event, and it may even get media attention beyond SL…(probably)

    anyway, the point is, the event (im guessing) is something that will highlight everything SL is capable of doing, how far its come from its start, and so forth, and the last thing they need is somebody having an exhibit which may not be appropriate in moral terms, but also in terms of context…

    i mean, that person who posted that their exhibit request had been declined… did he mention what his exhibit was? did he detail what was in it that it may have been declined for? perhaps it just wasnt fitting to the context of the event. maybe it was an exhibit to try to sell digital prim watermellon bushes, i dont know… what im saying is that there are reasons beyond what you guys are blowing this issue up to be…

    im sure everything that has been denied so far, isnt only child-avatar related. im sure that most everything denied so far has been because of a difference in context.

    and after all, this whole program is owned by LL and its investors, and they are putting on this event for the sake of SL’s future.
    if they dont pull in new investors and new users, universities, medical institutions, things like that…then SL will not be forever…

    and you wont have a place to argue about things like this anymore.

    to summarize my little blurb here, i just want to remind everyone that if you dont like the way that LL is running their event, then make your own events, where you can have your own rules, and your own selective processes… and you can even “respectfully deny” the lindens from having any part of it, just to get back at ’em and have a little fun while your at it.

    SL is what you make it,
    if you want to quarrel about things like this, just think about what you would be doing if SL didnt exist. would this situation matter to you at all? would you care that someone isnt letting you set up a digital exhibit in a digital environment.

    be grateful SL even exists. yo.

    and know you have the freedom to do whatever you want in sl, just not at functions thrown by corporations…like LL.

    pick another spot and have your exhibit on child development or whatever.

    meditate.

  126. Katt, you are not saying the truth. You say there never was a ban – there WAS. Only after massive protests from all parts of the community, in forums and blogs, that ban was lifted. Kid avatars were BANNED from displaying their part of SL culture (in an event that was calling all cultures). There were NO questions asked about how their contribution would look like. There was not a single application turned down. It was a general rejection. “Nothing that displays the life of kid avatars in SL. Full Stop.” I’m quoting Robin Linden in her response to my mail to M Linden:

    ***
    Daniel,

    M Linden passed your concerns on to me about child avatars being excluded from the upcoming Birthday celebrations.

    I want to be clear that child avatars are welcome to attend the celebrations, and we look forward to seeing you there. We believe a community sponsorship, however, is not in the best interest of the event or of Linden Lab, so we have to respectfully decline your participation at that level.

    Best regards,
    Robin
    ***

    You know, Katt, what you are doing here, twisting words, is just another PR desaster. You insult the intelligence of your paying customers when you say that a general rejection is NO ban. This, in my eyes, is worse than the now revoked ban. That ban was simply a wrong decision while trying to do the right thing, to protect SL, and the pressure from the community (and as far as I know also from some inside the Lab) showed the decision makers that it was a wrong decision. What you are doing here is simply a shame.

    Kids5B – Celebrating 5 years of Kid Avatars in Second Life

  127. everettlinden says:

    @115 and @122 and others:
    I am so glad to have a chance to answer this directly about my quote on Massively.

    “Child avatars are welcome at the celebration. However, we do respectfully decline the submissions we received to create exhibits for the event.”

    I explicitly welcomed child avatars. Therefore, it can’t be a ban.

    We respectfully decline the submissions, not the submittors. Content and people are distinct.

    No other groups are named, so connecting Goreans, Furries or any other groups to this statement is misplaced.

    That said, I think I can see the problem. “…we received to create exhibits….” could imply the creators are included when we declined content. Not my intent. I’ve read that statement 20 times and didn’t see how that could be interpreted differently until today. Always learning.

    So, if that’s the source of the confusion, let me amplify my two posts and Katt’s statements.

    No ban = no ban. PG content. Everyone welcome. Enjoy.

  128. Deanna Wilson says:

    @134 – Everett Linden

    Oh, that makes perfect sense. So there never was a ban on content related to child avatars. But there was, it just wasn’t called a “Ban.”

    Respectfully, I suggest a 21st read: it seems we’re not talking about a ban on avatar option, but a ban on content. That is this “ban” everyone keeps talking about.

    To say there wasn’t a “ban” because that word was not used, in spite of it being pretty plain that *content* was official prohibited, would seem to be semantics, no?

  129. Rofl Everett… It’s just laughable. Kid avatars were BANNED from contributing to the SL5B exhibitions, from displaying the world of kid avatars in SL. It was a BLANKET BAN on EVERY display of the kid avatar community. That kid avatars were welcome as VISITORS doesn’t change a thing about that.

    Kids5B – Celebrating 5 years of Kid Avatars in Second Life

  130. Solomon Devoix says:

    everettlinden Says:

    “I am so glad to have a chance to answer this directly about my quote on Massively.”

    “I’ve read that statement 20 times and didn’t see how that could be interpreted differently until today.”

    Really?

    1) You had lots and lots and lots of time and chances before today, everett. You had to know about the uproar. Yet NOW is the chance you’ve had to respond? This just gets better and better. Why not respond and clarify before this? Why?

    2) You only TODAY saw how it could be interpreted differently? Did you see NONE of the comments and uproar, in MANY sources and locations before this? Really? You didn’t?

    [falls over laughing]

    The spin makes me dizzy…

  131. Ravanne Sullivan says:

    I’ve been vocal in the past about crashes and service interuptions so I will be vocal about this also.

    No major DB crashes for a while now, a whole weekend without an alert to refrain from transactions. Could things actually be turning around? Keep up the good work LL®™, this is what we have been wanting all along.

  132. /me waves to Hope (#131) Long time no see!

    No one has told me to take off my collar. I wear it proudly, in full view. There is nothing R-rated with a collar or cuffs if they are merely worn. If weapons are PG (and there is a weapons display a few hundred meters from the IOL exhibit), then collars are PG. I do understand that some folks are uncomfortable to see collars and cuffs in use so as a polite person I won’t subject them to seeing that.

  133. Toy LaFollette says:

    the replies by Katt and Ev have comvinced me I cant now support any part of SL5B… I respectfully decline.
    Kids5B – Celebrating 5 years of Kid Avatars in Second Life

  134. Morgaine says:

    Ah, I get it now.
    All contributors are equal – but some are more equal than others.

  135. Tukso Okey says:

    Happy Birthday SL…I am glad to be a part of the online world of Second Life. It has given me an opportunity to hone my craft as a musician, while entertaining people from around the RL globe… continued success and PEACE to all.

  136. Shin says:

    How many sets of resident volunteers walked away from your organizing committees, people you spoke to face to face every day, because of your not banning anyone? 3? 4? It’s amazing how all of them managed to misunderstand you too…even in one to one conversation and “communication”. All those people who had been helping organize for years. Imagine them all not understanding that it was not a ban..just a respectful declining of participation. Silly people.

  137. @9 “What’s being planned for the Teen Grid residents? it would be nice to have an announcement for that.”

    I have the same question. Will teens be able to attend this event?

  138. Artfox Daviau says:

    Regarding the ‘nipple issue’ I totally accept that PG is PG, though it made me a little sad to dismember (the alternative was ‘cover’) the sculpted nipples and breasts on my statue. But i willingly complied and in the process of exploring my own feelings about that compliance i think the artwork has developed a deeper meaning.

    I think it is sad we protect children from simple nudity while allowing them such free access to violence. In a world continuously on the brink of war, appreciation of simple beauty has its place.

    Happy birthday SL

    Artfox

  139. Ann Otoole says:

    Wow 20 SL5B sims!

  140. Sean Marsi says:

    I’d still like to hear whether or not anything is planned for the TSL residents or not.

  141. Raudf Fox says:

    @Everett Linden,

    “Child avatars are welcome at the celebration. However, we do respectfully decline the submissions we received to create exhibits for the event.”

    I think I see the reason for the ‘confusion.’ See, you say, “Child avatars are welcome at the celebration,” followed by the “However, we do respectfully decline the submissions we received to create exhibits for the event.” The implication is that you did decline the exhibits by the child avatars that did submit to you and that you did so BECAUSE they were child avatars.

    Sure, they weren’t banned because they could attend the event all they wanted, but be darned if they were going to be able to get an exhibit, because it would be automatically “respectfully declined,” regardless of whether or not it met the PG guidelines.

    This is what we are hearing. Now, it’s great you’ve guys have “changed your minds,” but we’d forgive you a lot faster/easier if we heard an, “Oops, we screwed up, sorry,” than a, “There never was a ban, they weren’t automatically declined, either.” We heard/seen what you said, we’ve looked at the track record for LL cutting in on resident run events, and we aren’t stupid.

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