What is a group liability? – Video Tip of the Week #38

Today, I have the honor and privilege of explaining why it’s important to check your groups to see if you’re being charged small amounts of L$ each week for listing group-owned parcels in Search. Wow, what a mouthful of a sentence. It’s easier if I just show you, but before I do, I have a special announcement to make:

Second Life Video Tutorials now shine with a revamped style which looks official (heck, it is!) and delights you with animated whimsy. Pastrami Linden & I, with support from Bub and Cornelius Linden, worked intensely on it this week. We doth hope you enjoy. ๐Ÿ™‚

This video was filmed in the Release Candidate viewer, which is why it looks blue (instead of gray like the main viewer), but liabilities work the same in bothโ€ฆ and now for the show!

[blip.tv ?posts_id=998133&dest=-1]

00:15 – The most common group liability: parcel listing fees
02:07 – Check group Land & L$ details
03:33 – Be assertive about your liabilities
04:07 – Turn off the group liability Ability
04:53 – Check your transaction history on secondlife.com/account

(In case you’re wondering what other liabilities exist, I can’t think of any regular ones, aside from rare system accounting errors that get corrected.)

Also be sure to check out the corresponding Knowledge Base article, which this video tutorial will accompany soon enough.

Oh! You peeked below the fold! It’s time for BONUS VIDEOS WHICH AREN’T RELATED TO THE ABOVE! Since liabilities aren’t as fun as the <sagan>possibilities</sagan> of realtime shadows and spicing up your Second Life snapshots with Picnik on Flickr, here’s a treat:


Grow curious.

Torley Linden https://i0.wp.com/torley.s3.amazonaws.com/little-watermelon-eye.png
     Resident Enlightenment Manager (aka "dude who teaches you awesome stuff and brings smiles to your face" )
Watch more Second Life video tutorials! A lot more!

About Torley

Who am I? See http://torley.com/
This entry was posted in Community, Creativity & Ideas, Resident Experience, Tips & Tricks. Bookmark the permalink.

96 Responses to What is a group liability? – Video Tip of the Week #38

  1. Landing Normandy says:

    Good stuff as always Torley!

  2. sensei schism says:

    Great job as usual! This touches on an area that when I first found out about it, I was really upset. Why should that new club down the street that’s so cool have me and the rest of their VIPs pay for the search listing? Well, it’s fairly well hidden, it’s the default, and a lot of people just miss this or dont understand the effects it can have. Thanks for taking the time to cover something that’s not so “exciting”, but something that cost real money if you’re not careful.

  3. Rg Papp says:

    Hi Torley ..i enjoy all your videos, very helpful. BUT on this one you explained what a group liability is but you did Not explain the BENEFITS of earning group stipends or dividends.

    One of my groups “Blueberry Hill Shakers” PAY dividends to its members weekly based on incoming donations and sponsorship revenue. We ALWAYS make sure there is enough $L in there, so members are NEVER charged, even if its out of our own personal pocket.

    Would it be possible to also stressed the BENEFIT of this Group Option, Please?

  4. Shani says:

    Yay, Shadows and stuff O.O

    Grr I REALLY need to upgrade my cruddy laptop!

  5. Confused... says:

    OK lets see….. we have to buy a premium account so we can buy land then we have to pay tier and then we have to pay to have it listed and then SL dosent run right more than half the time..so what are the “BENEFITS?” lol

  6. Rg Papp says:

    GOOD Point Confused ..this video should Also explain what the BENEFIT is to paying the 30L weekly fee. From what i can see see, as a landowner you get listed regardless. I assume (OMG) you get a better worldwide listing (kinda like a premium listing).

    Of course, “BlueBerry Hill Shakers” PERSONALLY pays this fee (NEVER the Members) .. and if we didn’t use that listing option, We would still PAY our members $Ldividends from the incoming revenue.

  7. Kandy Tomorrow says:

    The shadows look great, and will really spice up SL…

    Please, please, please though, give us some way to transfer presets…
    Having to email the XML files works, but is quite cumbersome…

    I really want my partner to see the same scene I’m seeing ๐Ÿ™‚

  8. Sean Heying says:

    Mmm Shadows coming eventually to an NVidia 8800 and above near you.

    In before all the people who yell “No More Shinies”

  9. Vidal Tripsa says:

    Informative as ever, and it’s great to see that new look. Crisp, bright video tutorials are fun indeed! The only downside? I never had to wait for the streaming to catch up when the ‘vidtuts’ were embedded from YouTube. Ah well, I can’t have it all!

  10. Indigo Mertel says:

    Informative stuff, Torley. A quick check to the groups I joined show that many groups have liabilities on. Heck, even some of the groups I founded!

    This also raise an interesting issue. It would be good to split payments liabilities and dividends in two separate options. There may be cases where a land owner may want store tenants to split the costs of Search but not the dividends of land sale.

    Shadow is great! I hope this means the end of light showing through walls! ๐Ÿ™‚

  11. reacher says:

    the default should be to *not* charge the ‘everyone’ role with group liability. 99% of new group owners don’t understand how this works, and therefore the same thing happens over and over – group members (which are generally just part of ‘everyone’) wonder why they are being charged group liabilities.

  12. Blackie says:

    Great videos, Torley! ๐Ÿ˜€

  13. Doug Falta says:

    Once again, good info Torley!

    I’m looking forward to real time shadows. Although I’m definitely going to need a new computer for that… <.<

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  15. Hewitt Huet says:

    The only “group” that going to be “liable” is me, because the more poof-puff eye candy that is shoved down my throat, the more I need a different vid card. You guys sure you’re not in bed with NVidia?

  16. Garn Conover says:

    Hewitt ATI just sucks lol, Hey Torley any way u can post more info about the shadows? I tried gettign it but seemed to not work for me and it would be a real nice addition whenever u get aroudn to SpeedTree ๐Ÿ™‚

  17. Darien Caldwell says:


    The shadows are from an experimental viewer being worked on by LL. There’s an informative thread with a number of pictures in the SL forums here: http://forums.secondlife.com/showthread.php?t=261491

  18. Domchi Underwood says:

    Woaaah! Shadows look awesome!

    P.S. Torley, nice SpaceNavigator moves. ๐Ÿ˜‰

  19. Musha says:

    bravo my good man, Ive know about this for over a year. ๐Ÿ™‚

  20. Firebird Nightfire says:

    Shadows look awesome! I just hope this feature doesn’t put my video card into a coma…..

  21. Valric Fizgig says:

    Interesting shadows. I actually have the shadow viewer, compiled nice and stuff on Linux. I seem to be missing something critical that I cannot find (some libboost thing), so it’s nice to have these pictures and video.

  22. Great tutorial, thank you Torley ๐Ÿ˜‰

    I’ve lost count of the number of groups I have been invited to and then charged group liabilities… very annoying!!

    Wouldn’t sales of ‘deeded to group’ objects also hit accounting in the same way as land sales? I think group accounting is great when used correctly.

    Keep up the good work (and following your tutorial on ‘Who are Lindens?’ I collected my first Linden Bear yesterday !!!!!)

  23. Tristin Mikazuki says:

    The shadows are VERY cool!!!!

  24. Laurent Bechir says:

    Did anyone succeded in building and using shadows on a Mac ? I’ve tried without success using shadow-draft branch on the svn. I’m too curious to wait :-)))

  25. Macphisto Angelus says:

    Love the new look of the videos! Kudos to all that worked on that. ๐Ÿ™‚

    I am also very excited about the new shadows.

    Thanks for your videos, Torley. They are a wonderful resource to new and old avies.

  26. Jay Prospero says:

    Shadows will be cool, although it’s going to be another resource hog and that will only be apprecated by the people who have a serious set up. My serious set up is now showing it’s age thanks to SL lol

    Great vids as always Torely, like the new pro look ๐Ÿ˜‰

  27. Ron Crimson says:

    omg….gasp…*stutter*…*eyes twitching*….prrfffzzttt…. sha-shadows…. I wa-want shadows…. TIME FOR A NEW FIRST LOOK VIEWER ๐Ÿ˜€

  28. Fred says:

    Thanks for having a “superior” version of the video, Torley – it’s a world of difference from the grainy Youtube version (omg the text is legible!).

    Ironically, playing the mpeg4 video consumes a fraction of the CPU time used by the bloated Adobe Flash player.

  29. Tegg B says:

    Cool thanks for showing us how cool the shadows can look, I could probably run them with my machine, but will wait till it’s a view option ๐Ÿ™‚ more shinneee please ๐Ÿ™‚

  30. @ 26: Not really… see Torley’s comments on SL’s graphics demands and the relatively inexpensive solutions:


  31. Darth Juniper says:

    Hey Hewitt… there is a tab for changing graphics options in your preferences so you can turn OFF as much of the eye candy as you want. Nobody forces you to melt your video card. I’m certain that like almost all the other visual tarting in SL, the shadows will be able to be switched off if you don’t want to see them. Bravo that the option is coming though!

  32. Ravanne Sullivan says:

    As usual the communictaions coming from LLยฎโ„ข is abysmal. On a Saturday morning they remove a number of scripts and other products built on an illegal copy of the SexGen product. Not only that but they also removed perfectly legal and much used scripts and products just because they were created by the person who had supplied the illegal SexGen products.

    Was there any advanced notice?

    Was there even a notice posted after the fact?

    So once again LLยฎโ„ข has made a poorly thought out move with no prior warning and without anyone available to help the many customers effected by this. And being a weekend we will not see any help until Monday, if then. And now, long after the fact we still do not have any blog announcment on this even though some people claim to have been told to check the blog by LLยฎโ„ข employees for information about it.

    KATT!!! DO YOUR JOB!!!

  33. isadorafiddlesticks says:

    What a timely video about Group liabilities!

    I was also expecting a blog post about that too, perhaps they are composing the post VERY CAREFULLY which is why it is taking them so long? I hope so.

    However it’s great that LL has taken the action to take out the illegal beds now that Stroker won the lawsuit. The resulting deleting of the illegal product is aggravating indeed and issues like whether to compensate to those who didn’t know that their item is stolen needs to be addressed (were they given enough time to delete the item from their inventory on their own?) or not, but this lawsuit proves that persecution over content theft in SL is indeed possible.

    What LL should also be doing is to have their DMCA Linden do a tutorial on how to file a DMCA report correctly, guide complainants, and have a timely investigation. It is not enough to say that not properly filed reports would result to the report not being looked on. Sometimes forms, if it’s not that easy to file, has to be explained.

    If LL wants to be seen as a great place for businesses and improve their reputation overall, they should take content theft seriously.

  34. Jared says:

    Great Video Torley, good job letting people know about the group liabilities!

  35. Norma Desmond Junior says:

    thanks for info–I just hope that this isn’t going to be such a pretty place that only a George Lucas has the equipment for it. Have you looked at what a pain it is when one ava says-look at that –and you can’t see what they see?
    I have a good very good system and HATE this “you are frozen out feeling.” I want to share my experience with my friends. Bad enough the crashes are impacting my relationships ….

  36. alexandra.rucker says:

    At the risk of sounding like the perpetual water bearer on the parade… ๐Ÿ™‚

    It probably would have been a better idea to make “pay group liabilities” NOT ON BY DEFAULT. This would have certainly prevented a lot of problems necessitating posts like this.

    *pass the soapbox to the next person*

  37. Cliff Dieffenbach says:

    I don’t know, normally I’m a huge fan of the videos but this one didn’t wow me like before.

    I try and watch the videos of someone fairly new. If I were a new resident this would have confused the sin out of me. I don’t know if it’s the dialog or what, but it seemed to bounce around a bit.

    Be kind to the poor noobs.

  38. Let’s hear a big BOOOOO for the bland corporate business machine.

    Let Torley be Torley.

    The video was informative enough and the new style is okay. But Torley’s personality has received a thorough scrubbing. He’s still Torley, but he’s a rehearsed, edited, dare I say, watched, Torley.

    Let Torley be Torley.

    I found it genuine and endearing of Linden Labs that bugs and less-than-desireable results were not edited out of Torley’s videos. If future videos are as squeaky clean with as bland a pallette Torley’s veiwership will go down. Informative videos aren’t enough. Torley is as entertaining as he is informative.

    Please, let Torley be Torley.

  39. Bunny says:

    I have a question regarding group liabilities.
    If a person creates a group, and then one of the many group members in the “Everyone” area decides to set their land to that group, without even telling the owner of the group that they will be doing this; can the owner of the group be charged group liabilities?

  40. Kai Fleischfarb says:

    /me will check groups.

    Most of the groups I personally belong to have only residential land set to group, and therefore is unlisted and doesn’t have liabilities. Heck, even the group for the club I hang out at has two separate groups, one for managers/hosts/DJs/dancers, and one for ‘general public’. The land is, as you may imagine, not owned by the general public group. However, it’s good to know how I can split up the costs among several members.

    @32, 33: I doubt the information is gone permanently, they may have just pulled all of that particular resident’s items so they can figure out what they need to do with everything, without leaving potentially infringing items in-world.

    @38: Agreed, Torley needs to be allowed to be Torley.

  41. CatDeville says:

    THANK YOU for doing the tutorial on group liabilities, Torley! This whole issue was brought to my attention because I’ve had friends, and then alts loose L$ because I didn’t notice how the group was set nor that this was the *DEFAULT* setting (and put me on the list of those who think this is a *bad* idea.

    As a result, I have made it a policy not to join *any* group which has group liabilities set to “everyone” *unless* they disclose this fact up front in their group charter. I, personally, think it is both unethical and irresponsible for a group owner to have everyone set to share liabilities (yes, and dividends – but that’s rare on the groups that don’t do this consciously) without having consensus within the group that this is expected or without disclosing it up front. When I join a group I expect to know what I would be responsible for.

    And since I did have to leave several groups because of this issue, I’ve been IM’g the group leaders to let them know *why*, because I expect some of them have this set inadvertantly since it’s the default – which I have found is the case. Most have thanked me for bringing it to their attention and have corrected the problem, but a few have been either non-chalent, i.e., they assume it doesn’t matter because they don’t understand how it works and therefore assume that it’s “irrelevent” – ignoring the fact that it’s just a bad practice to have it checked if you dont’ *intend* for it to be used, or have gotten defensive and taken umbrage at the idea that I was accusing them of stealing. So I appreciate your educating people. I still refuse to belong to any group which doesn’t either disclose that liabilities and dividends are shared among group members or have this ability turned *off*, because it is subject to both unintentional and abusive siphoning of lindens, but more importantly because of the simply principle that you shouldn’t have something turned on that has the *potential* to take away your member’s money when they haven’t consented to give you their money. I mean, what responsible person *would*?

  42. Why not divide the two options?
    One checkbox for ‘Pay group liabilities’
    One checkbox for ‘Receive group dividends’

    Would that be so difficult to arrange?
    From how I see it, it would be a perfect way for group owners to show they have not created their group to rip money from their members.

  43. Ewan Mureaux says:

    Notice those test parcels are 16m, is torley an ad-farming alt????


  44. Georgette Whitfield says:

    Ooooooooh so that’s what that pesky L$1 is for? Now to figure out which group is responsible lol.
    Torley, is that you playing the piano in the first shadow vid? It’s beautiful!

  45. Sirlor Stonecutter says:

    I love Torley, but he didn’t even explain what exactly a group liability was nor the pros/cons of them. He just explained how much they cost. Why do they exist? Are there benefits to them? Shouldn’t the group owner be in charge of these fees? Who gets the money? Why should noobs who have no money have to pay these fees in the first place and not even get a choice in the matter. Thx again torley

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  47. Aeper Jie says:

    Wow Real time shadows……my god….EPIC!

  48. ChatNoir Moonsoo says:

    I’ve requested that before, but: can’t we have stuff like that in text-form? A video is overkill for that kind of information. Shadow is a good example of where video makes sense, but then there are so many basic things where the same information could be conveyed more efficiently (maybe a few screen shots thrown in). And by “efficient” I mean not only the data/information ratio (which is abysmal for video; lots of data needed to convey a small amount of information), I also mean: it will be easier to pass on, it will “run” even on basic systems, it can be referred to while doing a setup of groups (or whatever the topic is)… and last but not least: a text (or a collection of files) can be searched, a video can not. It’s annoying to know that some tidbit of info you need *right now* is in some video but you don’t remember which (or which part of the video). Simple text could be loaded in an editor and searched for keywords *when you need it*. Another aspect of information-efficiency.

    Given how much time and effort it takes to plan and produce a video compared to writing a plain text and throw in a few screen shots the latter approach would result in more topics being explained in a manner that actually helps you to get the information you need when you need it.


  49. ChatNoir Moonsoo says:

    @33: “The resulting deleting of the illegal product is aggravating indeed and issues like whether to compensate to those who didnโ€™t know that their item is stolen needs to be addressed (were they given enough time to delete the item from their inventory on their own?)”

    Let’s see how this is handled in RL:

    you unknowingly bought a stolen car. Police, owner or insurance company track it to you. They take it (there is no legal ownership of stolen goods). End of story.

  50. PrinceAikka Yue says:

    Hehehe keep up with these awesome vidtuts Torley!

  51. GRRRRRRRRR says:

    Stop making new stuff like shadow.. fix SL first
    I am less and less online, because it’s getting worse and worse…

    And BTW what good is shadow when people with older graphic cards cannot enjoy it… Please start using your heads for fixing things, we as your costumers pay you good money. It’s crazy if we have to upgrade our computers to keep up with your new stuff…

  52. coventina dalgleish says:

    but doesit really matter the game is again borked with asset problems 9:53 am sunday nice going LL

  53. Argent Stonecutter says:

    Bunny@39: Setting land to a group don’t make the group pay for the listing, because setting land to the group doesn’t change the owner of the land. They would have to *deed* the land to the group for listing that land to cause group liabilities. Deeding land to a group isn’t something that just anyone can do by default.

  54. Frank Northmead says:

    @50Letโ€™s see how this is handled in RL:

    you unknowingly bought a stolen car. Police, owner or insurance company track it to you. They take it (there is no legal ownership of stolen goods). End of story.

    With a car, you can attempt to validate the title before paying, in SL, there is no real way for the average person to validate that content is not stolen. Maybe we need an inworld method of certifying that content is legal. Consumers Union? UL?

  55. all that glitters is gold says:

    mmMmm shadows, nice vid…

    anyway to have my assets transfered to a shadow copy of the asset server? i’m betting the shadows will be more stable, reliable and smooth.

    I know, i know, expecting realtime shadows ok, expecting real time asset server & database access, now i am pushing it.

    Ah well…my world…my imagination…no off for some more colorful ‘shroom induced colors and fluff with fading particles, shiney water, real time shadows, in my land of the rising & setting suns.

    *poof* oops tp borked…trying again…toodles!

  56. @50
    Keep in mind, that most of the problems in Second Life that are a result of lag are viewer lag, and not server lag, which means that it is your computer. Also, who heard of a company changing itself for the benefit of the consumer? Companies change their product to make it better for the majority (in this case, non-paying customers, while paying customers have other benefits), after that, you either update your computer to keep up with Second Life (and current times) or you simply give up, stop going on Second Life, and not complain that the company is making their game more enjoyable for the majority, and that a few exceptions with old computers wont. My computer is not high-end, and SL still works fine.

  57. Razor says:

    @33 people have been complaining about the DMCAs for half a year, linden labs doesn’t help. its a hopeless case. its been ignored for long now (since two years, taking into acount the copybot blogs) linden labs just couldn’t care less. they make money on sold stolen items as well as originals so why would they bother.

  58. Tristin Mikazuki says:

    Hey Torley where can I get more info on the shadows? ie more demos..a test client ect ect

  59. Leal Choche says:

    This is way too complicated – the flow of this type of information, on a complicated subject needs to have an outline, like a course. Again, for basic learning skills like dealing with a prim, these videos are great. But for something this complicated it is much more confusing than it should be. It’s obvious that this video is made by someone so familiar with the system they don’t realize how complicated the subject is. Torey needs a teacher, an observation, not a criticism.

  60. Katt Linden says:

    Regarding this weekend’s DMCA issue:

    I”m investigating what happened, and I’ll provide more information as soon as I’m able to do so.

    — Katt Linden

  61. Ravanne Sullivan says:

    Over a day and a half after the start of this issue and this is waht we get? To quote the Captain from “Cool Hand Luke”.

    “What we have her is a failure to communicate.”

    Shame on LLยฎโ„ข, you have done all of your customers a great disservice by not being up front on this and for not, at the very least, offering an explanation immediatly. The timing and lack of communications makes it appear that LLยฎโ„ข has done something underhanded.

  62. Stephe Ehrler says:


    Keep in mind, that most of the problems in Second Life that are a result of lag are viewer lag, and not server lag, which means that it is your computer.
    Come on, can we stop this? When I watch a whole group of people lag off the screen trying to ice skate at my mainland park, how can you claim this is client side? This “motion lag” has gotten MUCH worse over the last few weeks and is back to the same lagginess I saw last summer. I can maybe see if only ONE or Two people experience the lag it but when a crowd (10-12) of people are yelling “LAG WAVE” as we all go into slow motion out into space, I don’t buy it’s our computers. Or maybe 10-12 people is more load than SL should be expected to handle on a sim at one time?

    I do understand that poorly written scripts etc can create sim lag but I really don’t think the end users computer is where most of the lag come from. Like all the stale transactions and failed teleports etc etc unless you’re talking about the HUGE client memory leak and when it has eaten up 2 gigs of ram and I have to reboot the game?

    Trying to blame the end users I’m sure is what LLยฎโ„ข wants but isn’t reality.

    BTW I also agree it looks like now someone has instructed Torley to clean up his videos and edit out any lag or other problems he experiences when recording them. We ALL know SL never runs like this! ๐Ÿ™‚

  63. Paulo Dielli says:

    @60 Thank you Katt. It was a big surprise to the entire SL community and it’s important that LL follow up on it. Let us know what happened and why there was no previous warning please.

  64. Shadoe Landman says:

    Does deeding land to a group mean that the group now owns the land and that the group is now reponsible for all charges? I saw a warning somwhere that said if you set it up wrong you can get double charged or worse, but it doesn’t explain what not to do.

    If I own a parcel of land and I’m an owner of a group, how do I change the ownership and not get double billed?

  65. isitcatcotton says:

    Group land is the same as regular land; except it gives LL a reason to charge you more for the same land.

    1 mainland 1 estate.

    Charge: 292.50 plus 195.00 for my estate.

    Someone do please explain to me the justification for over charging. ITS ALL THE SAME LAND. I will never ever use group land again.

  66. Zi Ree says:

    @59 Leal Choch: There is an article in the Knowledge Base about Group Liability: https://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417

    @63 Paulo Dielli: I must not be a member of the “whole SL community” then, because I didn’t hear about anything like that ๐Ÿ™‚

  67. Abigail Merlin says:

    @65: double charging tier.

    Yep heard about this before, what happens is you deed estate land to the group and accedently check the owner donates tier or whatever it is called, this will make you donate tier for 64k of land to the group that is not needed at all, if you check the accounting of the group you will see a large amout of unused tier sitting in the group.
    something simular happens when a group sells deeded land, the tier still stays in the group and persons donating that tier keep paying for it.

  68. Shadoe Landman says:

    @ 67 Wow, thanks, Abigail. You’d think I could have found such a simple answer somewhere. Or maybe it’s there, I just didn’t put that together with the warning about getting double-billed.

  69. Argent Stonecutter says:

    Deeding means you pay *less* for the land, because of the group bonus.

    But you have to trust the group owner, because once it’s deeded the group owns the land, not you.

  70. Curtis Dresler says:

    I said I wouldn’t post again, and today really is my last day of owning land in SL, but a comment on the double tier:

    A major cause of double tier billing to you and you alone happens when you sell land back to yourself from the group. For an instance you have land donated to the group tier and you want to buy it back for whatever reason. It is your land: you bought it and you deeded it to the group. When you buy it back, if you are not careful, for an instant you still have the donation and also land that you just purchased.

    This double tier billing usually goes away almost immediately after transfer BUT you are charged on the highest moment of ownership in a billing period. If you are exactly in tier with what you have, you can double your next billing in that instance, even though you ‘owned’ the extra land only until the system recognized the sale of land from group to you. In essence, you are paying for the same land twice and is if you owned it for the month, even though it was for a moment or two.

    What you do is first highlight that group, hit info and go to the land tab. Make your donation zero. There will be a message that the contribution from your group will have to be increased, but that goes away with the sale. Then you sell it back to yourself (preferably at zero lindens to avoid the whole distribution issue). This way you never increase your tier and you shouldn’t see that surprising ‘Your tier will increase to $ 125 or whatever.

    I found through experience that only about half the billing support staff seem to know this. They try to help, but only one of three actually nailed the procedure to prevent this tier addition(one came close, but no cookie).

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  73. Davina Glitter says:

    Well this will add much more dimension to the architecture of SL and I look forward when I can paint an scene using the added shadow features.

    Is this client currently available and what will the hardware requirements be? Thank you ๐Ÿ™‚

    All the best,

  74. coolrunning says:

    Thank you. That is how I got a -1 balance. I will check groups now to see if I get charged.

  75. Lasher Oh says:

    Duh, hate to show my ignorance but what do the initials DMCA stand for or is that need to knowledge only?

  76. Dekka Raymaker says:

    Digital Millenium Copyright Act

  77. uh-oh says:

    โ€œThe resulting deleting of the illegal product is aggravating indeed and issues like whether to compensate to those who didnโ€™t know that their item is stolen needs to be addressed (were they given enough time to delete the item from their inventory on their own?)โ€

    This will make me think twice the next time I go shopping. It is bad enough to lose an item to a SL glitch not delivering your purchase. Now a person can buy something from any store and not know that it is stolen or made from stolen parts and then end up losing both their money and the item in question.
    ouch! what kind of safe guards do the consumers have from this? since unless you made the item yourself, there is no way to know if the item is stolen or not.

  78. Argent Stonecutter says:

    uh-oh@78: Buying stuff in SL isn’t like buying stuff in RL, it’s like buying a season ticket to a ball game. If you show up at the game and the new turnstiles eat your ticket what do you think’s likely to happen next? This is one of the consequences of an economy where what are popularly referred to as “intellectual property” rights are universally tracked and enforced. Second Life is like an experimental version of the “Rights Economy” in Karl Schroeder’s novel “Permanence” or the enhanced Homeland Security regime in Vernor Vinge’s novel “Rainbow’s End”.

    I think that this aspect of the Linden economy and the ways it models fundamental changes in the nature of property is one of the most interesting features of Second Life, and I don’t think there’s nearly enough attention paid to it.

    alexandra@36: 100% agreement, the “Everyone” role should not have group liabilities on by default.

  79. Linda Brynner says:

    Very well explained Torley!
    I’m not acive in SL lately, but I keep track of your work ๐Ÿ˜‰

  80. Argent Stonecutter says:

    @82: It’s working well enough to keep my tier paid. I’m not making a living at it, but I’m not trying to do more than pay my tier…

  81. Ravanne Sullivan says:

    60 Katt Linden Says:

    June 15th, 2008 at 4:31 PM
    Regarding this weekendโ€™s DMCA issue:

    Iโ€m investigating what happened, and Iโ€™ll provide more information as soon as Iโ€™m able to do so.

    โ€“ Katt Linden

    We’re still waiting.

    Oh, and was the most recent blog post pulled because it was drawing questions about this issue? It is beginning to look a whole lot like LLยฎโ„ข doesn’t give a damn about its customers.

  82. Xavier Felwitch says:

    @85 oh my! we have heard for months that they dont give a damnabout its contect creators, now that they do something its the customers it dosnt care about…. poor LL is in a loose/loose situation.

  83. Wow such forced negativity from the vocal minority.

    Torley, I liked this video. Very informative and the slower, polished style does in-fact seem more “professional” and official.

  84. Ravanne Sullivan says:

    You missed the point of my post. I am completely in favor of IP rights of creators in SLยฎโ„ข being protected. What I am angered about is the total lack of communications from LLยฎโ„ข about this. I’m not even complaining about the ham-handed and asinine way they went about this but about no prior warning for the many people effected and not even any post event explaination.

    And as to lose-lose, if all you ever do is losing things what do you expect? LLยฎโ„ข could have come out as a hero on this, all they had to do was talk to us.

  85. isadorafiddlesticks says:

    nomoresecrets, LL HATES TORLEY? conspiracy much?

    i think this particular video needs a bit of seriousness to it, i mean, it’s a pretty complicated tutorial that also deals with Linden money. you cant be all funny and easy going trying to teach something that deals with money.

    as for the ever debated content theft issue, whatever they are planning, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE make it a win-win situation.

  86. Xavier Felwitch says:

    @88 sure there was no communication in regards to this issue, i acknowledge that and it could have been handled better. All i was trying to point out was that they will never please everyone. People will feel slighted when things dont know their way, anyways it was not ment as a jab at you but an observation. ๐Ÿ™‚

  87. Wispy Broome says:

    Hey Torley and Crew – Thanks for the group land deed info!

    I deeded some Land to our Group so that new Members can use the SET HOME HERE feature, otherwise I would not bother.

    Cheers again, and the new video style looks great!

  88. isitcatcotton says:

    @71 God forbid LL should check it’s own records and see that the land ownership never really changed hands just alts. Really has me wondering what the employees at LL do know. Personally I think 80% suck at their jobs and should be fired for not knowing how to fix the smallest problems as they occur. God forbid the customer does not get screwed by the system Philip Linden created. A little time goes a long damn way. LL falls short on way to many occasions for my taste. Hell no I can’t take them seriously as a marketing tool. They obviously have no clue.

    Thanks for YOUR post now if we could get the dumb shats in customer service to fix things, it would all be good. Unfortunately I don’t think they have an interest in helping their customers, long term or not.

    After 5 years; I am fed up.

  89. Xavier Felwitch says:

    so when are we going to get a “first look” shadow viewer? please put us outa our misery Torley! ๐Ÿ™‚

  90. Argent Stonecutter says:

    Xavier@93: if you’re willing to do a bit of work you can build your own copy of the shadow viewer. You will need Microsoft Visual Studio, a copy of the Shadow Viewer branch of the SL viewer source tree, and an nVidia 8000 series video card.

    And, apparently, a pinch of luck as well.

    It’s not simple, yet, it’s all very experimental and probably won’t be ready for general release for a while. ๐Ÿ™‚

  91. Friendly greetings! While (as the saying goes) I can’t reply to each and every comment, I do read, appreciate, and amplify what’s useful + fun (usefun!). So a few quick points of light:

    * DMCA Process clarification post is now @ http://blog.secondlife.com/2008/06/17/responding-to-questions-about-the-dmca-process/

    * I’m definitely planning to do more group tutorials. And yes, UI suggestions โ€” please make sure they’re on our Issue Tracker @ http://jira.secondlife.com if not already. I agree sometimes old defaults don’t make sense after a lot of other changes. E.g., https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-378

    * Gosh bless Pastrami, Cornelius, and Bub Linden for their aesthetic expertise in doing the new intro/outro… and thanks to all of you who noticed.

    * Re: tech. discussion on shadows, I highly recommend joining SLDev: https://lists.secondlife.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sldev Some Residents have shared patches as well as well as distroed their own home-cooked viewers โ€” innovation, even that which we can’t officially support, can be awesome. Remember that it’s EXPERIMENTAL, so like WindLight, there’ll be a lot of changes including bugfixes and aspirations of wider compatibility for whatever hardware we can possibly support. But for now, focused testing is needed!

    * To those of you sharing info with each other, YOU HAVE MY GRATITUDE! BIGTIME! Thanks. ๐Ÿ˜ฆ

    * I promise I WILL SHOW MORE BUGS AND WORKAROUNDS in future video tutorials. I’m not getting sanitized here, and while I would’ve personally liked a watermelon scheme to begin video tutorials, that just doesn’t match Second Life official branding. My avatars are not going to suck, though. THANKS for your concerns about that, I’m glad you brought it up.

    * No, it really doesn’t take that long for me to make a video. Nor is everything suited for a video. So we can have both. I respect and appreciate diverse learning styles and Second Life has a lot of multimedia learners, as witnessed by everyone who’s supported the video tutorials thus far โ€” I say thank-you thank-you because your support is something I’ve been able to show fellow Lindens and keep making them, because they justify *value* (and heck, awesomeness too).

    Peace, Love, Unity, and Respect… ~*~ Torley ~*~

  92. More great helpful tips from the master himself. Keep up the hard work on our vids!!!

  93. Hi Torley, how about a video tutorial on adjusting Windlight so people don’t need to use face lights/body lights?

  94. elsi says:

    ์ด๊ธ€์„ ๋ณด์ž ๋งˆ์ž ๋„๋ฉด ์•„๋ฒ„์ง€๊ฐ€ ์ฃฝ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.. ์ด๊ธ€์„ ์‹ธ์ดํŠธ 5๊ณณ์— ์•ˆ์˜ฌ๋ฆฌ๋ฉด ๋ฐ˜์ชฝ ์–ผ๊ตด์ด ์ž‡๋Š” ์• ๊ฐ€ ๋‚˜ํƒ€๋‚˜๊ณ  ์•ˆ๋‚˜ํƒ€๋‚˜๋ฉด ํ˜ผ๋ น์ด ์ž์‹ ์„ ๋”ฐ๋ผ ๋‹ค๋‹ ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค… ์ด๊ธ€์„ ๋ณต์‚ฌ ํ•ด๋„ ์ข‹์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค… ๋ช…์‹ฌ ํ•˜์‹ญ์‹œ์š” ์‹œ๊ฐ„์€ 77๋ถ„ ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค

  95. Casey Seifert says:

    Why do you make it default for Group Liabilities to affect everyone? Wouldn’t it make more sense to make it affect JUST the owner(s) as default instead?

    I predict a lot of complaints due to this less than well thought out implementation.

  96. Pingback: Nobody cares! - Page 306 - SLUniverse Forums

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