[DONE] Rolling Restart Tue/Wed/Thu to deploy Server 1.22.3

Update 2008-06-12 09:20 : The rolling restart is complete.

Update 2008-06-12 08:00 : The second-half rolling restart is 61% complete.

Update 2008-06-12 07:05 : The second-half rolling restart is 32% complete.

Update 2008-06-12 06:01 : The second-half rolling restart is 19% complete. We are pausing it while we recover from the inventory server that crashed; it will restart in 15-20 minutes.

Update 2008-06-12 05:14 : The second-half rolling restart has begun.

Update 2008-06-11 09:30 : The first-half rolling restart finished about 30 minutes ago. We will do the second-half rolling restart tomorrow.

Update 2008-06-11 08:15 : The first-half rolling restart is 85% complete.

Update 2008-06-11 07:02 : The first-half rolling restart is 48% complete.

Update 2008-06-11 05:59 : The first-half rolling restart is 19% complete.

Update 2008-06-11 05:06 : Last night’s pilot roll went quickly and quietly. Today’s rolling restart of 1/2 of the grid will begin in a few moments.

This week we will be deploying server version 1.22.3 to Second Life. This version fixes the bugs with group permissions and object rezzing that were introduced last week. It fixes the issues describved in SVC-2489, SVC-2495, and SVC-2499. This server version is already on the “Second Life Beta Server” channel of the preview grid, where you may try it out now; see the previous blog post for more information.

The rolling restart will follow the schedule:

  • Tuesday, 06/10, 7:30 PM : a pilot roll to ~160 regions
  • Wednesday, 06/11, 5:00-9:00 AM : a rolling restart of half of the grid
  • Thursday, 06/12, 5:00-9:00 AM : a rolling restart of the remaining regions on the grid

As with all of our current rolling restarts, no client updates will be necessary. All regions will receive a 5-minute warning before they are restarted; there is no way for you to delay your region’s restart. Each region should only be down for less than 10 minutes. If your region stays down for more than 30 minutes, please contact support. We do not anticipate that we will have the same problem we had last week with regions staying down sometimes for an hour or two, as the problem that caused that was fixed with last week’s rolling restart.

Update 2008-06-10 14:04: in addition to the group permissions fix, two small bugs that allowed for a sim crashing exploit are fixed in this release.

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148 Responses to [DONE] Rolling Restart Tue/Wed/Thu to deploy Server 1.22.3

  1. cosa nostra says:

    Keep the good work up ! All far so good at the moment !


  2. Zena Juran says:

    Anything else included with this? 🙂

  3. Darien Caldwell says:

    You know, I have to make the comment that if the versions were left up on the preveiw grid long enough for someone to actually try them out before the rolling restart began, perhaps bugs like the group permission bug would never make it into the production server in the first place.

    Last week it wasn’t put on the preview grid until *after* the rolling restart began.

    Is there really even a point to having the preview grid if sufficient time to evaluate new versions isn’t given?

    Please don’t take this as a flame, but I do not understand the mad rush to get out the incremental versions lately. What has changed?

  4. Prospero Linden says:

    Other than this one fix, there are a couple of small security patches. The patches in this server deploy are very small and scoped.

    Re: the mad rush to get the incremental versions out, the last few releases have all had patches that we needed to get out right away. Last week it was a memory leak that was slowly eating away at the free memory on our simulator nodes. This week it’s the group permissions bug we introduced last week.

    The goal is to have it bake longer on the preview grid, and we’re working towards that… but as you note we’re not there yet.

  5. HoneyBear Lilliehook says:

    Will this in any way help the ongoing lag occurring gridwide, or offer us ANY hope of stability?

  6. Moll Dean says:

    Good evening all

    Another rolling restart with 3 days! isn’t that anooying? lol

    Well. I know LL has a important announce to make and maybe 1.22.3 has something related with…
    Good lucky LL (not sold yet, right?)

  7. This is good… need something.
    Hopefully … by some miracle fixes my prim-drift issue. lol

    Thanks, Prospero.

  8. pcteck says:

    I don’t know what SL is doing but it seems to me things have gotten worse since this weekend. It has gotten to the point now I am forced to relog after about an hour. The lag is extreme at best, my client freezes I can’t seem to stand still and various structures seem to move when they are in a fixed position.

    This is not a flame but with as much mad cash that SL makes why do we still have these same problems, client crashes and mass lag. As a computer technician irl when I am working with upgrades and troubleshooting I do it in small bites real small bites. I make one simple change then launch it in a small area isolated and watch to see how the fix plays rather than making a ton of fixes and launching them and then wonder why the thing doesn’t work.

    Typo Ninja strikes all the time but small steps will get you there quicker if your bigger steps mean you keep tripping.

  9. Ceera Murakami says:

    Looks like you broke it, folks. No logins possible…

    Very glad to see these particular fixes,but sure would be nice to be able to actually log on. *sigh*

  10. Doris Haller says:

    I lag only when I don’t crash.

  11. Doris Haller says:

    Btw why does the stability metrics (http://secondlifegrid.net/resources/service_metrics) end in January 2007?

  12. Doris Haller says:

    …make that 2008 and only one blog entry.. with an EDIT button

  13. Lars Donardson says:

    Could someone pls feed some prozak to the asset servers and other unhappy stuff as it all starts to go “bonkers” again. I can hardly be the only one noticing it, can I?
    Transactions don’t go through, assets are missing, avatars don’t rez properly, media streams can’t be started etc pp.

    *sighs and kreeps back under his rock*

  14. Marianne Levasseur says:

    If the restarts have not started, why cant I logon?

  15. Raven Primeau says:

    Yes SL is running like a bag of S@te again, it would be nice to think you could sort this asset thing out one day!

    Went back to the std viewer cos on the RC I was surrounded by gas clouds, even Ruth is slightly more attractive than gas

  16. Marianne Levasseur says:

    And when I finally logon, why the hell am I not at the home I spent a LOT (to me) of RL dollars to own and fix?

  17. Doris Haller says:

    You can read her (http://blog.secondlife.com/2008/05/27/my-first-week/#more-2001) in M Linden’s entry “My Firts Week”:
    “Everywhere I went a concurrency monitor (a big screen with a chart tracking the number of concurrent users over time) was in view. Any blip in the line would indicate a problem and it was comforting to know that everyone at Linden is attuned to platform stability. Platform stability is a key strategic priority for the company as it has been a severe pain-point for residents (especially recently). We understand Residents’ pain when they can’t log in or manage their businesses, connect with friends, travel around inworld or communicate.”

    I guess that’s how they monitor it.

  18. Rizla Laval says:

    same for me login failed..

    loks like SL is wearing the jelly legs again 😦

  19. Wollas Beaumont says:

    I cant login in game all time is coming login faild what happens?

  20. Shani says:

    Got this message:

    Login failed
    Due to high load, logins temporarily existed

    ??existed-lol- wth does that mean..

  21. Drew says:

    Logins disabled? No status post? New typo’d error message?

    “Login Failed.
    Due to high load, logins temporarily existed”

    Details please 😦

  22. Kitsune Clawtooth says:

    Hey uh…Why can’t Liek anyone login????

  23. Kitsune Clawtooth says:

    Tempoarly Restricted?

  24. Jenrose Meredith says:

    Wow. You’d think, if logons were currently “existed” (oh, they’ve corrected it to restricted now, I see), they might be restricted to people who, gosh, I don’t know, PAY to play?

  25. Angel Damask says:

    Has anyone else noticed all these new versions and restarts started to get out of hand about the same time LL introduced voice? I’m not saying it’s a bad thing to add new features, but I should think LL may be more efficient if they would stop adding frills and take care of the issues that are affecting grid stability. As to voice…well, let’s just say it works well for those who can’t type or spell.

  26. Hevenz Vansant says:

    omfg i just found out that the game solitaire is included free of charge with my windows vista!!!!!!

  27. BigBang Paine says:

    Login error message today, before it was corrected:

    “Login failed.
    Due to high load, logins temporarily existed.”(sic)


  28. Elle says:

    “Login failed”
    “Due to high load,logins temoraily existed”

    What the hell does that mean? in a couple years playing that is new to me ROFL. i play SL less and less these days since its jus not worth it, you guys are completly over ya heads, obviously cuz now we cant go a week not jus a weekend with some kind of problem that affects TONES of people, i understand that custom content makes the very nature of the platform hard to keep stable but WOW you guys are jus WOW, good luck, hope this fixes stuff but at this point id bet my kids it wouldnt be lool
    peace XD

  29. uh-oh says:

    @Kitsune Clawtooth I am puzzled also on this. I knew there was talk about restricting free accounts, but restricting paying customers at the concergie level from logging in?
    there is something wrong with this picture.

  30. Andrea Faulkner says:

    It’s about time that LL reinstated the CC requirement, made age verification MANDITORY, and wiped any free account that hasn’t logged on in the past 6 months so that the strain on the asset server to maintain inventory of alts and bored teenagers is lifted. This is getting very old VERY fast.

  31. LH says:

    Still having login troubles?

  32. lider barbosa says:

    i dont know if this hapend to anybody before but i keep geting stuff returned on my sim….its pissim me off cause its a new sim and its on a process f building and everytime im working on it half of the stuff gets returned….also in some places it seems to have a invisible all ..i cant walk but then i hit ctrl alt T and i see no prim there….i already restarted the sim many times to see if it fix and still the same problem….

    u guys keep doing all this rooling restarts to fix stuff but its just making worse at least on my end…last rool my sim was down for more then 1 hour …

    i think for the amount of money i spend i should have at least less headache….

    i think soon if u guys dont get it fix u guys should at least charge less money…its ridiculous the amount of money u guys charge for a service and then deliver a poor service…love SL but lately i been thinking alot about keepin my sim….

  33. Vylixan Fallon says:

    As every evening, profiles aren;t vissible , uploading images failed. It seems that the stability of the database is now less then 20 hours. After that it fails. Something has to be done. You can’t expect people to pay real money and give nothing in return, It is time for some compensation at least for sim owners etc .. People are affraight to buy stuff because SL is unstable.

  34. chmarr walcott says:

    weird i was in SL then it crashed i tried to login and this popped up

    “logins disabled untill further notice”

    then i tried again 10 mins later

    “due to high load logins disabled”

    10 mins later

    “account suspended untill 05.45am 10/10/2010”

  35. Kittrannia Cassini says:

    Once again a Blog get’s hijacked because none of us can login and have not got a message in the Status Page. It is quite clear to everyone but Linden staff that they are incapable of having more than 60k people on-line at once.

    It would be nice if paying customers could login but it seems also clear the they have absolutely no way of determining who’s a paying user and who isn’t when logging in.

    Day after day, night after night we get this….and if Katt posts here about “We’re Listening”, “We feel your pain” I’ll scream!!!.

  36. cosa nostra says:

    RELAX all !! SL was working properly since a few weeks for now, and I am a die-hard user !

    so give them the chance to solve it


  37. SecondLife Student says:

    I’ve been getting this now for the last 20 minutes and getting

    Login error message today, before it was corrected:

    “Login failed.
    Due to high load, logins temporarily existed.”(sic)

    Just as I was trying to submit my homework for my secon life class. Due in 3 MINUTES. ARRRRGGGHHHH

  38. Angel Damask says:

    At least you got an explanation…all I got was a button saying “Login Failed” I’m a consierge level paid account and age verified…hmmm something sure smells around here and it’s not from this end.

  39. RC Sellers says:

    WTH is up with the ” due to high load” logins disabled !!!!!!!!

    You mean im paying for this game and cant get on but all the freeloaders are in world ?????????????

    Better get this fixed and soon !!!!

    Another great dis-service to the paying customers !!!!!!! geez

  40. Dilbert Dilweg says:

    Question. Is the memory leak fixed that was causing some regions to stay down for several hours? Last rolling restart it took over 3 hours to get our region back on line.. :/

  41. ZoHa Boa says:

    lol cosa, you have been on holidays ???

  42. Day After Day After Day says:

    M? Are you there? Without being cute and playing the put down game, just tell us in plain English what your plan is to make SL even semi-reliable.

  43. coventina dalgleish says:

    mmmm waiting for the next down grade of the system. Another day and the same old horse poo. Assets borked no uploads nothing functions. The restricted log in does nothing to improve the service and only irritates paying customers. Oh and did I mention since it does not work there is no economy this will result in a final situation of no players to use the game. Oh I bet it will run great when there is a concurrence of 2500. I can not imagine putting up with the current level of performance much longer. This phase started in November when the asset server was supposedly upgraded for the holiday rush, was that for the 4th of July holiday ))? well I suppose we will have to wait and see what this week brings.

  44. DISGUSTED IN LINDEN LABS™® *!@$!! says:

    every time you all do these rolling restarts or work on the back end of the game we have database issues and problems you need to go back to the old way of down for a few hours a week to do these updates this is just getting rediculous .
    Every day of the damn week we have database issues,, why don’t you all use the money we all pay you every month to go buy a real one or update the one you have so it can actually handle these loads you put on it .
    Months and months of this and people complaining on deaf ears always

    maybe it is time for SL residents to do what the customers of aol did back in the early 90’s and file a class action law suit for services lost

  45. Yanik says:

    @38: What do you mean it was working properly? Last week update brought back up some old problems like triangles popping out of prims, tons of crashes ( i counted 22 in one day), traffic not updating (i’m losing money here), land descriptions disappearing for no reasons, not to mentions more database and asset servers problems than we can list here.

    If that is working fine for you, maybe you should share your secret.

  46. Bjorn Nordlicht says:

    Logins temporarily existed… tell us something we didn’t already know xD Like why these database “technical problems” never get discovered until everything is borked, and what makes this one different from the next or last?

  47. MarkByron Falta says:

    We are in dire need of a larger and more visible link from the Secondlife.com page to the well hidden http://status.secondlifegrid.net/ status page.

    Vote for http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-692

  48. richard says:

    number 22 bend over and second life will show you what that mean !!!

  49. Frustrated says:

    [Resolved 3:18pm PDT] – Logins have been re-enabled and the database issue has been resolved. you can return to normal activities now.

    —Really??? Then why am I STILL getting the “Login failed. Due to to high load, logins temporarily restricted” message whenever I try to log in???

  50. richard says:

    you aint getting on

  51. Kath McGill says:

    Hello..(tapping monitor glass) any one in there? it says the Log in problem has been resolved, but… (DUM DUM DUMMMMM) it says that I cant log in because of too many people..

    Come ON! Ive been on when there was more people on SL- ether change the message that its been fix, or fix whats been broke.

    we now return you all to your hot summer day with the broken air conditioner!
    Ice water any one?


  52. RESTRICTED LOGINS?????? Restricted to who exactly? Not htose with Payment info obviously.

  53. cxnwai says:

    logins restrited 😦

  54. uh-oh says:

    @Andrea Faulkner laughing* Do not get me started on this topic.
    I have been banning and muting my ex partners after i threw them from my land for various reasons. Does that do any good? no, they are right back again using alt’s and trying to harass me.
    I could restrict my land to paying accounts but that would take away from other free accounts who are not causing trouble and that is far from fair.
    Oh well they are nothing but cartoons anyway. if trying to bother me makes them happy, then have fun. 🙂

  55. APB for Leadership says:

    GM and Ford ignored their customers and look where they are, desperately trying to find a future.

    SL is not going to even get past the “crystal set” phase of development. Kids and hobbiests may find value in this, no corporation will. Like please, just pay attention to the economy.

    No valued brand will ever link itself to an unreliable vendor, its just a toy and never will be anything else.

  56. Grumbit Grut says:

    Not being able to log on due to hi load is frikking rediculous !!!
    Hiding all your problems on a subsite is unbeleivable !

    New visitors dont have a clue of al the problems in SL…

    Reporting abuse on LL !

  57. Britpop says:

    Sorry for OT, but can someone please fix the line “due to high load, loginstemporarily disabled.”

    that’s some weird english and makes me even more angry about the fact that lindenlab locks out paying customers.

  58. MrLunk Voom says:

    owyes allso restricted for paying accounts I am congierge paying 125L$ p.m. in landtiers and am allso unable to log on due to hi load…

    ridicuul !

  59. Lindsaymarie says:

    Whaaaaaaaaaaaa! Login restricted! NOOOOOOOOOO!

  60. Ria says:

    Does anyone else think *the* most annoying part is that the latest update is “logins re-enabled” when we keep getting the “logins disabled” error?

  61. cosa nostra says:

    @43 ZoHa

    no I wasnt, still working on redesigning 4 sims here since a few weeks, and compaired to april … didnt experienced any main probs ….. and I can tell ya I didnt spare LINDENLABS in the blogs in april

    there were some small issues last weekend, but I give LINDENLABS the chance to tune it back in the right way (at the moment), if not I unleash HELL and THE DEVIL again … 😉


  62. richard says:

    so only 53,338 people can log in and that is it?

  63. coventina dalgleish says:

    KMA and get rid of your dumb restricted log ins until your figure out how to assign it properly. I re logged because your game does not work and froze me on my Island now you tell me I can not log back in. To put it mildly “up yours” Since I want to log into the islands I pay for I think I will restrict my payments for non performance.

    Just another exhibition of your inept ability to manage this game.

  64. Kafkagome Bekkers says:

    Umm…how come I always see “resolved” notices when these problems are BEGINNING for me, and still continuing?

  65. Enigma Watkins says:

    will this new upgrade improvment include the fix for skirts? if not, when should we expect this issue to be resolved?

  66. richard says:

    wow this sounds like aol in the old days !!!

  67. Pat Hartono says:

    Wait a minute. How did those 53,338 residents get in world? And the rest of us are ‘temporarily restricted’?

  68. Darien Caldwell says:

    @ Prospero, Thanks for the reply. It is a good point about the memory leak, and I certainly understand the desire to repair this permission issue quickly. I know everyone at Linden Lab is working very hard to stabilize and grow Second Life. I’ll do my best not to give you a hard time. 🙂

  69. MrLunk Voom says:

    WOOOT im in !!!

    Thank the gods of LL :((

  70. jerry franizzi says:

    perche’ non riesco ad azionare il comando appearence?

  71. Lasher Oh says:

    Can’t we just roll back a year to the time before windlight etc when things were just crap instead of &@*$ing crap I have always waded throug SL land in the hope that Lindens were busting a gut to make things better but recently they seem to be just busting everything…come on guys surely you can see that the current state of play is seriously bad

  72. Runningbear says:

    calm down people, right now logins are disabled because all camping slots are in use. There are at least 10-20.000 badly dressed campers sitting in sims eating resources (not as much though, you can’t really buy much for incredible 1L$ per 15 minutes, so their inventory is really small – low load).

    Let me think… its past in europe (except for UK), on a tuesday. logins are disabled due to high load. Is SL is too big? Is now the time to officially ban camping? (please, someone think about this now, you need to free resources – there’s your option!)

  73. AHHHHHHHHHH Houston……….
    We have a problem……..come in………
    Just as I wanted to have some fun……..I get this error message
    “Restricted Loggins.” So what pray tell is a “Restricted Loggin” and why can’t I play……..this is agrueably the most frustrating thing I’ve gone through all day :-((

    ote. This message will self destruct in 10 seconds……9 seconds…..8 seconds……….7 seconds………..6 seconds……………5 seconds……………..4 seconds……….3 seconds……………2 seconds……………..1 second…………..pooooooooooffffffffff

  74. Ria says:

    I finally got in.

    Crashed a minute later.

  75. DanielRavenNest Noe says:

    I guess we should plan on problems midday Wed and Thurs. From what I can tell, post-restart, a sim has to load up assets the first time someone visits, i.e. textures, animations, scripts, etc. but then afterwards keeps it locally. Therefore there is extra heavy load the first midday peak after a major rolling restart batch.

    If my hypothesis is correct, the way to reduce post-rolling-restart overloads would be to (a) split the rolling restart over more days, and (b) do it AFTER the daily peak, so as to have as much time to fetch stuff from the asset databases during the night, before the NEXT peak.

    The other contributor to the current problems might be the 23% increase in islands last month, after the huge price drop. The only solution to more sims with more requests for data is a massive increase in the database capacity. Perhaps full mirrors installed at each colo facility would do the trick.

  76. Tiny Mind says:

    ** Wait a minute. How did those 53,338 residents get in world? And the rest of us are ‘temporarily restricted’? **

    Don’t you know by now? 2/3rds of those numbers are all Bots used by Landowners to shore up their sagging SIM attendance-ratings. They’ve been doing that for a long time now and LL allows them to in order to look good on the co-current numbers.

  77. I think the term stability should be defined since the most believe it mean crashing and lag which is most of the times based on your computer. I don’t experience a lot of crashs, having said that there is one annyoing thing about the whole update /asset server /failure odyssey, once a new server version was brought back to life there comes a new deploy with exactly the same bugs and failures, This is a standard and for some reasons it seems impossible to have a new deploy that sets us back where we have been 3 weeks ago. This however is not development in my eyes it keeps us on the same level, the damage is higher as the again and I wish somebody would put his/her foot down and stop premature code to be release.

    Just an opinion.

    ps please give group owners permissions to turn of the chat for particular rules, the abuse is huge!

  78. cage conacher says:

    Is anyone else experiencing problems with land textures?

    On our island, sometimes after just a few minutes land texture goes foggy in places and in other places becomes square blocks.

    The best to everyone.


  79. Penguinfan Beck says:

    Just a note.. 2 more days in a row now with database/asset server issues.. this is completely and utterly REDICULOUS!

  80. nwq says:

    i want the classical group search, not the browser-like one 😦

  81. Tristin Mikazuki says:

    Prospero before the rolling restart of the 1/2 half of the grid anyway you guys can get rid of the off topics on this blog? (including this one) so there will be some space? lol

  82. thanks for kindly allowing rezzing again…

  83. Prospero Linden says:

    **Question. Is the memory leak fixed that was causing some regions to stay down for several hours? Last rolling restart it took over 3 hours to get our region back on line.. :/**

    Yes, that was what was fixed with last week’s roll. This rolling restart should go much more smoothly. (Fingers crossed.)

    Re: blocking logins, this is an emergency measure. When the database gets overload, many of those trying to log in can’t, and everybody in world has things (including money transactions) occasionally fail. We block logins for 10-20 minutes, and that allows the database to recover, as logins do place a fair load on the database. Yes, it’s a very bad thing that the database machine has this much trouble in the first place. Yes, this has been going on for some time. Things actually got better with the central database for a few weeks, but clearly we’re still far from out of the woods on it.

  84. Umbra Lunardi says:

    WHEN will someone fix the memory leak in the current Mac client??? This has been going on for weeks and weeks now, and the memory leak is so bad now it can crash OS X now after only a few minutes of being logged in. I have had to cancel all of my jobs and stopped all build projects because SL is unusable now. The level of dysfunction we are currently experiencing is unprecedented. You will have no customers left soon if this continues. PLEASE FIX THE MEMORY LEAK!!!!

  85. DISGUSTED IN LINDEN LABS™® *!@$!! says:

    I think your much more out of the woods your into deeeeep outer space on this database that no one seeeems to be able to fix months and months now. Maybe its time you should hire people that actually know how to scale a database for what SL needs beyond what it needs i think if you ask the business owners and residents of SL they will all agree its far far over due for this to be fixed…. without the excuses… when will it be fixed when can we expect to have this stable and not cause daily problems that make our business lose money every day. If you look around SL very old business that have been here along time are now pulling out they have all had enough of this lack of customer support and lack of answers on this issue we want a firm answer we want to know when it will be fixed how long and is it worth us sticking this out…i know i for one am about done wasting 200+ usd a month on crappy service

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  87. arthur market says:

    The grid appears to be “stable” when logins are “disabled”. Therefore when there is no grid usage, the grid should be really really stable. Problem solved.

  88. Resolved (TM) says:

    @78 — Don’t you know by now? 2/3rds of those numbers are all Bots used by Landowners to shore up their sagging SIM attendance-ratings. They’ve been doing that for a long time now and LL allows them to in order to look good on the co-current numbers. —

    I can understand to a certain point LL allows that for the sake of high figures (though….well, let’s say it’s like some zero-dollar ads). What I really do not understand is which benefits landowners actually get from this practice. Are they paid for it ? Is it only coz they are infatued glad to see their region ranking up to top-10 or 20 ? Can someone tell me ?

  89. Pingback: Massively.com SL news

  90. Tristin Mikazuki says:

    Can we get start times and % done on this one to?

  91. Paulo Dielli says:

    Sorry LL, but this is getting out of hand. EVERY single day we get these interruptions. I love this game, but it’s getting worse and worse.

  92. Ryu Darragh says:

    #34 lidar. That’s two symtoms there.

    One is options on the land being set incorrectly *or* you have them set to return objects that were not laid out (rezzed) by group members >and< you were wearing some other group tag when you did rezz them out. Even the owner of a full region will have his/her objects returned to them in that case. If you go into “edit” on prims you rezzed out, you can check which group they belong to and can set them to any group you are a member of. The second thing that can cause this is group perms on group owned land and you have a wiseacre in your group returning things.

    Two is what are termed “ghost” prims. These are prims that have been removed (deleted, returned or set to temp), *but*, the Physics Engine still remembers them. Its (Havoc4) memory hasn’t cleared and you are running into the ghost prims. Normally, a region restart will fix this. However, i have seen this persist, even with Havoc4. Report this on the Jira, drop a note to the Lindens, use the Live Chat in the help/support page.. any of these avenues.

  93. Maelstrom Flasheart says:

    What about SVC-2511? This is KILLING gun manufacturers as well as the many combat sims you have and yet still remains unassigned? When can we see an emergency roll out for a major physics issue?

  94. Dilbert Dilweg says:

    Update 2008-06-10 14:04: in addition to the group permissions fix, two small bugs that allowed for a sim crashing exploit are fixed in this release.

    Why would something like this be posted before the rollout was sent.. Now every tom dork and harry will be busting their butts to find it and exploit it

  95. Dajobu Ling says:

    Prospero, I just wanted to say I really like your replies. It’s even better to see that the poster is watching the comments.

    I’m keeping my fingers crossed, too. Good luck and keep those fixes coming!

  96. Tristin Mikazuki says:

    Did it happen? and how did it go?

  97. Firebird Nightfire says:

    Ya know, I feel sorry for the poor Lindens! Not only do they have the frustration of having to chase down problems in a complex system, they have users yelling at them and denegrating them for not fixing the problems RIGHT NOW THIS MINUTE!!!!! You think they *like* the situation? Most of them probably play on the grid when they’re not working on it, and they *know* things aren’t working 100%. God knows you people remind them it enough times! Give them a break and let them do their jobs!

  98. Frank Northmead says:


    Uh, more like this year, or maybe the past 2 years…

  99. Ann Otoole says:

    I would love to talk about the database problems. But why? Wasted text.

    Anyway good luck and may the restarts go well.

  100. Elliott Eldrich says:

    All I ask for now is that you please, PLEASE do NOT disable the ability to run, since it is apparently not possible for LL to





    fix the Nvidia freezing problem




    with later Windlight based …




    releases. I was running RC 1.20.9 for a while, and finally had to give up on that one due to…



    endlessly freezing over and over and over. Makes it flat out impossible to be able to get any work done. So, as a result, I’m having to …



    guess how things are …



    going to look in Windlight, since …



    I can’t actually see what …



    the …



    items I’m …



    creating are going to …



    look like in Windlight.

    As far as …



    your “freeze logger” program …



    goes, I know that you have gotten …



    at LEAST a hundred …



    reports from my machine alone. I …



    toughed it out as long as I …



    could …



    stand, but …



    as of now…



    my …



    frustration …



    level has simply …



    boiled over. So, whatever you do, …



    please do not disable, since …



    that is the last working version …



    of SL that allows me to…



    get any work done here.





















    All those Freezes get kinda annoying, don’t they?

  101. Rex says:

    Has LL ever heard of Oracle? It’s a REAL database, not some pretender to the throne that MYSQL is. It can handle huge loads and massive queries with ease. My company uses it on a daily basis with no problems whatsoever. I’m sure Larry Ellison would be happy to have LL as a customer.

  102. Raymond Figtree says:

    Paging Jack Linden: Remember when you were going to make blog posts about Mainland supply? What happened to those? Remember when you said you were going to target a base of L$6 per meter? It’s now at L$3.4. Care to let your residents know what the plans are for the land economy or are we going to be left guessing the rest of the year?

  103. Tristin Mikazuki says:

    Prospero did you guys do the ~160 sims yet? and how did it go if ya did.. its like 3 hours past due @.@

  104. Edgwert Snert says:

    Logins are still not working from here… while it is good to know that I am not the only one. I think it would be even better ~not~ to be one.

  105. Jayme Llewellyn says:

    Gee, third month in a row with Linden Labs promising to fix s**t yet doing F*** all to satisfy their customers – both paying and non-paying. Has stability been fixed? No. Is stability any better than it was before January 17, 2008? F***no! Do Linden Lab’s give flying F*** about the continuing missing skirt issue? F*** no! Well, you know what Linden labs? You can take my accounts and shut them down. You can also take this piece of crap game and shove it sideways where the sun don’t shine. I’ve had enough of this crap. You are a bunch of amateurs. If this is how you insist on treating your customers, someone aught to sue your A***. Before January 17, 2008, crashes were minimal. Yeah sure, we had a problem with bots, but crashes were minimal. But then you go and f*** everything up, f*** everyone over. So you think all of your customers should automatically assume the position? Screw you sideways. I’m out of here and am not returning. At least Open Life is getting right.

  106. Edgwert Snert says:

    @7 & 8

    hi, hi hi …!!!

  107. Jonathan Snow says:

    @ lider barbosa

    Yes Lider, I am afraid that this vanishing of objects from the sim is hapeening more often then ever before. Still it does not happen often. I am an Estate manager for over 125 sims and I am receiving this complaint more and more the last few months.
    No I will not file Jira as it has completely no use. Linden chooses its own path regardless of what residents want. I gave up on asking for help in any way and just go with the flow.

  108. Resolved (TM) says:

    Sorry to contradict most of you but I’ve been logged-in for over 3 hours without a single problem. And unless scheduled downtime, I can do so almost each day. Yes — crashes and slowdowns happen once or twice a day but are acceptable to me when we know SL is a rather complex and resource consuming platform.


    Note: My PC is the average 3 years old Dell running @2GHz with an ATI graphical device, my network link is an 8 MB DSL — nothing really extraordinary here.

  109. Dutch says:

    @46 We own 5 sims and are only able to access them about 90% of the time…not counting all the “out of memory” errors that require a 10 minute wait until the region is “ready” to let us back in. (Heavan forbide should we ctrl-alt camera around on our own properties) For what we pay in tier a month compared to other more tangible objects we own, we should be getting a whole lot better reliability. If my air conditioning only worked 90% of the time and took 10 minutes to restart, I would be on the phone and someone would be right out to fix it. Helll even when my cable goes down, I get a refund on time lost. Seems a class-action may be a way to get *someone’s* attention in LL. Kinda looks like a contractual obigation is being ignored/violated to me. If I miss a tier payment, I do believe I would have no property left.

  110. yes i still can not get into freebie heaven why and is there a different version then voice. ty.

  111. LillyBeth Filth says:

    Lets be honest here. Its been 3+ months LL have had the same assett issues log in failures transaction failures yadda yadda
    Ive been with SL for 4 years now and trust me without wanting to sound melodramatic ” the end is nigh”

    By that I mean “somethings” got to give. Every business person who had stable revenue prior to “dooms day” ( which followed after client update 3 mths ago..lterally the day after ) has lost on average 30% in sales.

    Sure the resession plays a part but imo that works in the “indoors entertainment” favour. When RL money is tight , its easier to spend less money playing in SL or playing on consoles or renting a movie.
    So I think the resession at least in part plays towards SL’s favour.

    Its become quite obvious LL cannot fix these issues. They patch them up as best they can.
    SL grew faster than they took into consideration and they are in a financlai stale mate situation.
    The servers they would need to run the amount of residents who log in now ( inc bots ) and the constant rezzing of items scripts textures which chances by the second , are too expensive.
    They cannot afford to upgrade the servers to the level they would need to have SL run smoothly or lets be honest they would of done it by now or at least released an announcment as to what the problem is and why they cannot fix it,

    IMB have been working or at least watching SL and rumour has it that over the next 6 – 9 months IMB “may” buy out or join forces with LL.

    Of course with any new “Boss” there are changes that work towards and against each of us. But then that is just a rumour.

    Philip Linden stepping down is the first step towards a company buy out if you look at business history over the years.

    Other virtual worlds are making the grid stability of SL their sales pitch with mention of it in their forums not just the grid stability but also the drop in land prices….other “competitors” are taking notice and making the most of LL’s weakness right now.

    Google spend millions of dollars a week on servers..they buy entire warehouses of them from all over the world, and when their servers start to become old tired broken they dont patch them up or fix them they leave them to run down or sell them on and just move the data to new servers because they are constantly buying newer and better ones.

    LL do not have a bottomless pit of money despite what you guys think. Every company has a limit and LL have reached theirs.

    They are business people after…

    ( in my opinion not very good ones , I have this mental image of LL being a bunch of post grad I.T geeks that had this amazing idea and developed it in their partents basement and it was huge success but none of the “gang” had done business studies so they are screwed )

    And businesess need their model to succeed. Its not succeeding currently.

    Heres an interesting thing…noobs are coming in over the last 2 months and when they hear someone complaining about the grid they are ” oh…I thought this was normal”
    And they would…and over time thats exactly what wil happen.
    Even I have started to ” accept ” things.. this is now ” normal”

    Its a little like developing a chronic illness at first its awful…you long for the days when you could do ABC but eventually you forget what it felt like not to be ill and you make the most of your good days and grit your teeth through the bad days knowing there WILL be good days again…your new crappy health becomes normal… ( I base that on rl expereince as I have M.E )

    There are unforgivable business ideas LL have made that I..little me whos running a virtual store in a virtual world and in rl is a marketing and sales person…roll my eyes heaven wards..

    Why do they not announce the transaction failures in world??
    Even if you DID know about the grid status page by the time you realise theres a problem your money has been spent and the items havent arrived… but there is only a small % of people who even know the blog exsists much less the grid status page.

    So whats happening is residents are spending L$ they have purchased with their RL cash in stores and their items dont deliver..so they quite often buy the same item 2 or 3 times…assuming the their L$ wasnt taken.
    I dont know the %, but I’m guessing a large % of the smaller businesess and stores dont have very good customer care and do not bother to respond to IMs or send the goods out to people who purchased and never recieved and KEEP the extra L$ the customer spent in confusion.

    So “we” get blamed that ” our” vendors are broke..when its an assett server issue all along.

    So with the constant failure of goods being delivered and no refunds people are afraid to spend money in SL.. even if the store is well known and they are confident that the goods will arrive evetually the whole point of shopping is that instant gratification of seeing your item when it becomes yours…
    People are loosing confidence in spending L$ and are loosing over all excitment of buying things because they are sick of having to wait hours days weeks or maybe not even recieve their items.

    THIS IS affecting LL if not now it will do sooner or later and they know this…so why didn they stop the inworld announcments that once were common place if there was a client issue…

    I dont know…another cloak to hide behind from the mass population?
    I know our customers by about 70% are unaware SL has problems…they assume itsour vendors and I send them links to the status page and they apologise but it gives you an idea of how ignorant the bull of SL residents are on this issue,

    In closing..Ive noticed even the angry mobs waiting for any announcment that remotlely relates to the grid so they can “vent” have also died down…they have given up shouting to a brick wall..

    People have had to accept this is the way it is and nothing we can do or say is going to change matters

    We have 2 options ” put up and shut up” or leave and as their is no other place like SL as yet…option one is what the majority of people are accepting as their fate.
    And THIS is why LL can treat us, their paying customers like children
    ” be seen but not heard”

    They monopolise the industry…sure there are other V worlds and some have an economy but none like SL.

  112. LillyBeth Filth says:

    IN addition to the above I do not have 95% of the issues that others apparently are having… But I can see clearly that there are issues and that the majority of people are feeling it.
    I think this is down to the fact SL is a “fat” client it needs a powerful PC with a good graphics card plenty of RAM and good internet band width…with each addition LL add to the game more and more “power” from PPLs PCs are required.
    I think they pushed SLs technology too fast for their customers to afford to keep up with.
    The majority of peoples PCs just cannot cope.
    On a more positive note we upgraded our sim sevrer to a class 5 and LAG is a no longer an issue. We can have upto 20 ppl on the sim ontop of the 7000 texture vendors and ppl are free to fly without rubber banding… so if you do have a sim on a server less than class 5 it would help you a lot to upgrade it if you can afford the increase in the monthly fees/

  113. Dilbert Dilweg says:

    You know i have been on here since 2006 and have had to deal with grid attacks . Not sure if any of you complainers were here but grid was shut down for 5 to 6 hours at a time to clean up. Bugs and bug fixes have been here since then and will be here in the future. All you who sit in here flaming and complaining need to make a decision to roll with the punches or move on with your life. i for one can get upset too but coming in here acting like a jerk and flaming LL at the same time trying to run a business is about rediculus. Complain on the forums where it should be done because no one is listening to you here either. why would anyone?? Ask productive questions. Do not become part of the problem . Sick and tired of all the lameness that gets posted here. Everyone has to roll with the same punches. Make a decision today . Stop posting flaming crap here . My viewer is very stable. i can be online for 5 hours at a time. and more! LL is working hard and have been and to tell you the truth It is better than it was in 2006 and gets better . But yes bugs will always be there. DEAL WITH IT!

  114. LillyBeth Filth says:

    @116 NO offence but what virtual planet are you on ?

    Its not “normal” for people to be THIS upset for 3 months without good reason. As I addressed in my post sure I am positive some ppl whos PCs just arent upto SL anymore jump on the bandwagon but that aside SL in the “four” years I have been here under the same account has never NEVER experienced THIS level of transaction failures and asset server issues.
    Nor has the economy took a direct hit as a DIRECT result of these same issues
    LL had admitted they know its effecting businesess in SL and I can only assume your here for a hobby…maybe on a free account have no land and such pay little to nothing for your “service”
    Its basic human nature to be angry when your loosing real money because your not getting what you paid for and not getting any direct frank and honest answers but polite ” we feel your pain” PR garbage

    I am not a forum whore..in 4 yrs posted just over 100 times and I say that because it shows I am not one for drama or whining but even I have reached my breaking point.

    Some customer care would make all the difference… some one to “talk” to instead of being brick walled.

    LL are NOT addressing their people on this subject at all and thats why ppl are frustrated and come here venting in some deluded hope LL may read and reply.

    Sadly as you just pointed out…it isnt going to happen and thast why people get frustrated and angry.

  115. Evangeline Biedermann says:

    It would be nice if this next server update enabled me to stay online without having to relog almost hourly..joining a previous comment.. lag has gotten extreme..client almost always yellow to red despite using the lowest possible graphic settings for the last 2 updates.. which makes for a very blurred and unrezzed viewer..missing image clothes are almost a fixture at times..and the camera is hard to control..when i try to get around my avatar..it zooms in and out rapidly for a few seconds..literally causing nausea..phew..that was my grumble of the day..sorry LL..overall SL is still fantastic and i aint going anywhere 🙂

  116. the only Sartek says:

    116 Dilbert:

    A lot of people (like me) are paying 25$/month for premium membership + land tiers. Is it so much to expect a little bit of servide in return from LL ?

    Since your name is “Dilbert”, I will make an “office” analogy :

    Let’s say the air-conditioning in your office breaks down and the temperature rises to 40C. You go to your manager and you explain him the issue. Your manager responds he will look into it, but three weeks later the air-conditioning is still broken. In the meantime, the temperature has risen to 45C, and you got to your manager again to explain the problem.

    Then your manager responds: “It’s not a real problem. YOU are the real problem! You don’t have a positive attitude! You should stop complaining and get back to work!”

    How would you react in such a situation? Because basically, that is the attitude we should have according to your post.

  117. Dilbert Dilweg says:

    the only Sartek
    I pay $295 in land tier a month in USD and taKES me about $3,000 linden a day to run my business and still manage to rise above it all despite the problems . I am with many who have complaints and are tired sometimes of the problems SL makes us endure. And have been guilty once of coming in here flaming. But realized quickly that i look like a baffoon and should stop it.. Some of you cant even reveal your real identity when flaming lol Brave souls we are?? It just amazes me how many people can sit here and say this and that how LL dont do anything but yet can not produce their own grid and or Apply for a job to help LL if everyone seems to have all the answers. People filing bug reports in here when, guess what ? There is an issue tracker with all these obvious bugs and obviously they are aware of them > you can even vote on the issues and post your experiences in there and help LL find the problems ..
    Like i said. Everyone pays tier and has to roll with the punches. if no one has the gut for it . then pack your bags because it is going to be a long ride lol
    Last rolling restart my region was down for 3 hours.. yes it was a harry experience but all in all it was worth some of the fixes . And you know what .. Seems like my business is still striving and rolling just fine.. Seems the users have a great deal of understanding and realize how complex this system is.. No one has been able to come up with anything better that works yet. Can anyone here?? Nope
    It would be nice to see more productive posts here ..

  118. coventina dalgleish says:

    Dear Dilbert

    You raise a valid point you are correct that the Lindens pay little attention to the blogs and the pointed comments as to their ability to make this platform function as advertised. LillyBeth has been here about a year longer than I have and if you remember the griefing attacks they began right after version 6.0 was released, btw that was the last stable viewer. It would seen that something happened right after that release and someone or group with an in depth knowledge of the operating system took it upon themselves to leave a calling card. Every update since that time has been fraught with inconsistency’s little more than an attempt to gloss over the failures of the prime operating engine.

    People are tired of the continuous problems that now express themselves every day. The restricted access was first talked about 2 years ago. I suppose it took them that long to figure out how to do it and yet in their normal efficiency they now irritate the paying users.

    Memory leaks on the viewer side have not been effectively addressed while on the server side they receive immediate attention. WHY does the Nicholaz viewer have minimal leaks while the main sl viewer continues to eat memory at an alarming rate.

    People will continue to use this vehicle until the lindens establish a method for direct communication as this is the only vehicle to express our opinions.

    This is not so much directed towards dilbert but to all of you who think LL is doing a great job running this project and think that the whines here are mis directed. Believe me when I say I would much rather be in game than posting to this lame blog.

    It is also obvious that you pay little if any money into this game and have not established a business or you, one might think, would not be so agreeable to the linden method of operations.

    Until Linden Lab listens to the core of premium players this venue will continue to suffer until the only players left are no payment info on file.

  119. coventina dalgleish says:

    Well dilbert bully for you like the rest of us sending real money to LL and receiving little in return except daily irritation. I do not know what you sell but we see a major flux in sales when the game has problems. Sales stabilize the we are the recipients of the weekly downgrade. I find the users have a great understanding of my kindness when I hand deliver items that the game fails to, without question.

    As far as solving their problems that is an impossibility as the internal functions of this game are not available to us. I will give you a bit of information I heard on the grape vine it seems that the major bandwidth supplier is very surprised that the game even works as so many useless extras have been added to the core operating system.

    In short it was supposedly expressed they have no clue to how to make it work.

  120. Dilbert Dilweg says:

    coventina dalgleish
    There are many bugs and issues they have no clue how to resolve. I guess that all comes with the one and only pioneers who are paving the way right?? When the world began Way way back before 5,000 B.C. there were many bugs and issues the humans had to learn and endure. Like mass diseases and deaths and no clue how to stop it.. But as time went on humans worked hard and pressed on and now today people live longer and have better lives than way back when .. It is all a part of evolution . As this world grows the same style the pioneers will pave the way and things will be resolved.. LL has set the stage and are the learners in this as well. you can not expect all of it to work perfectly but you can strive and work toward making it better.. If everyone in the world sat on their buttas complaining al the time and not working t=o find a solution to problems . then the world would not be as it is today and you would not be here to complain .. It is evolution

  121. the only Sartek says:


    Yes, I’m aware that an issue tracker exists, and I agree that every system has it’s bugs. But if our tv/phone/internet provider left issues open for several weeks, we would complain too. If our tv/phone/internet provider interrupt their service every two days, we would complain too…

    I don’t see how Second Life is any different: they offer a service, and we pay for it. The least they can do is make sure that they garantuee a stable service for paying customers. Issues like this (building and group permissions) should have come up in the test-grid, not in the production environment.

    An isse tracker is fine, but there should be someone at the other end of the wire too, to make sure that the issues are being taken care of.

    But ok, I got the message. From now I will not complain anymore. I will find peace in the fact that I pay several dollars/month for a service that might not work half of the time… it’s only money, right?

  122. Dilbert Dilweg says:

    When i say YOU I mean me as well > Not meaning to be directory but in general speaking towards all… I respect your reply

  123. the only Sartek says:

    Another point Dilbert:

    You are not an average user either. You have a business in SL that generates money, so I guess you earn your membership-fee and land tiers back, thanks to sales of goods in SL.

    Most users don’t have a business. I just own 2 parcels and I’m building a house on it. That’s all I do…

    Therefore, you are not in a position to judge for ordinary users that just pay for the LL service without generating profit from it.

  124. aSwede says:


    I have also spent some time thinking about why LL is so reluctant to include bug fixes supplied from people like Nicholaz. They do include some outside patches, but some seem to be neglected, overlooked or ignored.

    To me, there are a handful of reasons to look at:
    1) The patch is substandard, plain bad
    2) The patch is ok, but isn’t in line with future LL plans
    3) The patch is ok, but the people who should merge it into the production code are too busy
    4) The patch is ok, but the people who should merge it into the production code doesn’t like how it’s done
    5) The patch is ok, but the people who should merge it into the production code are too stubborn and/or proud to accept someone elses solution to a problem

    To me, 3 to 5 seems most likely and especially 3 and 5.

    The coders work under, I imagine, a lot of stress to get their own patches to work, get the new version past quality checks and deliver it. Add patches supplied from the outside and that adds to the workload since they need to be inspected and evaluated.

    Nicholaz has made some entries on his blog about things he has found in the code, and more specifically at least one very snide comment in the code about noone being able to find a better solution to a problem that Nicholaz solved on his own. And Nicholaz’ solution was better than the LL solution…

    To me, this makes number 5 on my list a prime candiate. There is often a lot of pride put into programming projects. The programmers sometimes view the code as their baby and when someone else tries to get in on the work, it’s like telling a mother her baby is ugly. Especially when it comes to finding bugs and on top of that supply something that works better.

    In the end, it all boils down to having a professional attitude. SL didn’t start as a corporate brainchild, but as the vision of a group of gifted coders. With the momentum it got and the paying customers there is need for change.

    Letting players have the client code to change it and modify it for their purposes was a good thing, if you ask me, but to not give merit to the patches that other gifted coders supply is a really bad thing.

    I saw in a post here that LL will merge in a patch to add lip sync to voice. That’s a good thing since it will add functionality and it won’t cost LL more than reviewing it, merging it and testing it. If the same thing could be done with patches adressing, for example, memory leaks a whole bunch or players would be oh so happy. Again I’m guessing number 5 on my list is to blame.

    But this is just me guessing a little, taking into account my own experiences with projects and developing things together with gifted (and proud) coders.

  125. Dilbert Dilweg says:

    the only Sartek
    I used to be a regular user before business back in 2006 .. i had to begin somewhere ……

  126. Carina says:

    Is there any possibility to determine wether the region I am in will be restarted in the first or the second half of the restart?

  127. the only Sartek says:


    I understand your point of view. What I’m trying to say is, there are certain issues that cannot be resolved by just “filling in a bug report”, as you mention.

    aSwede (127) summarized the issues very well…

    the “just-deal-with-it” attitude, is not something you expect from a professional service-provider.

  128. Mikevanman Dagger says:

    AS long as you don’t break uploading photos on a Mac again for 3 weeks, full speed ahead.

  129. I have had it! says:

    I have been a premium member for 4 years….and over the past few months I have been asking myself WHY???? If LL doesn’t fix the problems soon…I’m outta here! AND if Katt Linden comes on this blog and says she is “listening” I’m going to lose my mind!

  130. IAm Zabelin says:

    https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-488 is a very serious bug related to this. It’s been opened a YEAR and not assigned!

    The bug prevents this group permissions fix from working properly : so even though your blog says it is to fix the group issue – it is not … it is only to put it back to it’s formal crippled functionality.

    Can you please assign https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-488 now thats it opened 1 year!!!

    I really can’t believe LL actually worked on the code to fix this bug you created and didn’t even consider looking at a SERIOUS one-year old related issue!!!

    The really sad part is many users who use group permissions setup this way don’t even know about bug 488, and they happily log off each day unknowing that their in-world rezzers stop working when they are offline !!!

    Please EVERYONE that relies on “Always allow ‘Create Objects'” in your group roles for limited people to rez – take note : you cannot use rezzers as they will NOT work when you log off – vote for https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-488 to be fixed.


  131. aSwede says:


    The bug report is hideously bad. No description on how to recreate the behaviour (even though there is one in the comments) and so terse I have no trouble understanding why noone at LL makes an effort to investigate.

    It’s incredibly important to report bugs with as much info as possible making it as easy as possible to both understand what it’s all about and how to recreate the bug. This one is just “Something is broken.”.

  132. Prospero Linden says:

    Re: the other group rezzing issue : the patch that we’re rolling out right now was very scoped, and designed to fix what we broke last week. This is why we’re rushing it out right now; that, and the two sim-crashing security bugs.

  133. IAm Zabelin says:

    Prospero Linden @ 135. Fine, thanks for the update. However could you please at least add a comment on https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-488, or arrange that it gets assigned to someone to investigate. It breaks the functionality you are trying to repair.

    aSwede @133 : that may be – and is often the case as normal users (often non-english) are reporting the bugs – not tech-savvy QA engineers … but you would still imagine after 1 year it would have been looked at by LL and at least commented on, asked for more info whatever – if not assigned. But seriously, if LL don’t understand it no matter how vague the original description then there is a serious problem.

    It remains a very serious bug affecting thousands of property owners without there knowledge – which makes it even worse.

    Rex@103 : The worst thing LL could do is add more bugs by downgrading to Oracle. MySQL is an excellent database, better suited to this type of application, and is capable of millions more transactions per day that currently is getting to it – the architecture is the problem with SL, not the db … SL has outgrown its original design. Don’t blame MySQL because LL says ‘we have asset db issues’. But you are right, Larry would be happy for any business.

    Resolved (TM) @110 : I am genuinely happy for you. You are either a LL alt, or a genuine 1 in a 1000 customer that does not have issues. But you need to understand there are people who really have issues. Be happy its not you, and go forth and enjoy yourself.

  134. Alexia Cournoyer says:


    lol. what ever makes you think these guys are professional? As far as I’m aware even *they* don’t claim that.

    No professional outfit would ever use the ‘Tao of Linden’ as their development culture. Even for allowing that these guys are American and have adopted a flawed, but commonly used in the US, SDLC, and their Project Management of this little adventure of theirs is woeful.

    Which is why every problem is considred by them to be a user created problem – despite overwhelming proof of their shoddy design and implementation. It’s easier to blame the user than to actually work out what the problem is and fix it.

    They despise us and on occasions can’t even hide it in public. whether it be the ‘blingtard’ comments, the ‘go out and get a life’ comments that used to be so common on Wednesday updates, the snide and inappropriate comments on the login screen on April 1 last year..

    their attitude to us is ‘if you don’t like it leave’, knowing full well that they have a core captive audience and there’s nowhere else to go – and for that, they despise us.

    The user base is just here to make them attractive to the big boys and those organisations that have more kudos in the world.. IBM, educational institutions etc. That’s not us – our usefulness is in the user numbers we provide – nothing more.

    If it were anything other than that then the old, unused accounts would have been archived long ago. The cost of maintaining these accounts is not trivial, and the only benefit i can see is that they inflate the ‘residents’ number and make this ‘platform’ look more popular than it is.

    Don’t ever think these guys are on our side.
    /me steps down from the soapbox and saunters off to do the real life thing

  135. aSwede says:


    > But seriously, if LL don’t understand it no matter how vague the
    > original description then there is a serious problem.

    This is where you go wrong. Imagine tens of thousands lines of code littered with “If this, do that unless something else” and trying to figure out why something went wrong. Trying to debug something on account of a bug report starts with recreating the error to make sure that it’s not just a misunderstanding or a report of expected behaviour.

    After reproducing it, the real work starts. That’s just how it’s done and the people at LL aren’t mindreaders.

    The one making the correction relies on the quality of the bug report to be able to do some good and that, in turn, makes the reporter of the bug responsible for adding as much info as possible including how to reproduce the error.

    If the one filing the bug report doesn’t have english as his or her first language, I’m one of those people, it’s not too hard to ask for help translating or use an online resource to make the bug report as good as possible. So, filing bug reports isn’t always easy since it requires some effort to make it good but it’s worth the effort since it will help the coders and make it more likely that the bug will be looked at.

  136. the only Sartek says:


    I they want to attract the big boys like IBM, they’ll have to prove they can offer a stable infrastructure. A company like IBM, Microsoft or Google will not invest in a company that can’t keep their services online half of the time.

  137. Solar Legion says:

    Shall we be a bit more realistic here people?

    Let’s face it: No matter how many fixes are made, no mater how quickly Second Life becomes stable … It will never be enough for some of the worst complainers.

    I, for one, have gotten sick and tired of all the complaints that seem to be brought up in each and every blog post’s comments section: This includes the ever popular “fix it or I am gone” and “That’s it, I am gone” type comments.

    I frankly do not care how much money some of you have sunk into Second Life: Harping on the same subjects again and again does not solve the problem, nor will it ever. All you accomplish is the creation of discontent within Linden Lab concerning their user base!

    If your intent is to leave? Do so and skip the dramatic comment exits!

    Frankly I would love to see some of the problems in Second Life finally fixed … Until they are however I will use the proper channels to lodge my complaints and continue to sit back and wonder just how serious some of those that have left really were with their investment into Second Life.

    I will leave you with this however: Restricting log ins to exclude basic accounts should NEVER occur unless there is NO choice. Credit Card information should NEVER be mandatory, nor should age verification (not until that system is running properly anyway).

    Almost all of the income a shop owner gets comes from those who have payment information on file but who see no need to go premium. All incentives for it have been removed and to add in such an oppressive incentive as having higher log-in queue access is … Well it is wrong.

    Content creators with shops who have voiced the opinion to restrict log ins during heavy load times to anything above a Basic account … Please IM me with the name of your store so that I may avoid purchasing anything there.

    Better yet – leave it here in the blog so that you can tell all your customers why they were unable to buy anything from you if the Lindens listen to your demands.

  138. nikita says:

    I had a very bad lag,freezing and crashing problem every where i went in sl ,,,except my openspace island,there i was ok,but i had given up going to stores and such because it was so frustrating
    The grapic card i was using was the minimum,intel 945,and 1.2 ram,when i ran a check on “can you run it” my system failed it,i was told i could.nt run sl
    I could but barely run sl,so i went out and bought a laptop strictly with sl in mind,4gb ram,2.16ghz processor and nvidia 8600 card.
    I can’t believe the difference,now i can go anywhere lag free,for me sl went from frustrating to an absolute joy,and water looks like real water now
    Just wanted to put my 2 cents in and show there are some of us who love sl,
    While i know everyone can’t run out and buy a new machine,but if i was to stay on sl i had to,it was no good the way it was,
    As for logins,i have never had a problem with that

  139. YLing says:

    hw to register???

  140. Musha says:

    @140 check the forums to really see who most of them are. 🙂

  141. Gil Druart says:

    @134 Hmmm .. as a sometime developer myself I would *like* that because it makes my life easier – but think it through. You are saying that bugs don’t exist unless they are reported by literate, articulate, technically-fluent people.

    It doesn’t matter if ‘The bug report is hideously bad’. It’s still a bug.

    If the developers are too arrogant to look at things that aren’t documented completely then you have a culture problem. If they are too busy to look at things that aren’t documented properly then you have a management problem.

    And while we are looking at that bug report anyway ….

    “Bree Darling – 10/Nov/07 03:37 PM
    I’m sure LL is busy fixing this issue. I look forward to their response… ~B ”

    I do hope dear Bree hasn’t been holding her breath.

  142. coventina dalgleish says:

    To all who dislike complainers I would say there is only one major bug in Second life and it has existed since the inception. They can not manage a large database. Wayyyyy back in 2004 Philip made a post stating they were working on solving the problem. Now it is half way through 2008 and the problem has compounded. I would say i they ever solved the database management problems 80 to 90 percent of the whines would dry up. The DB problem is the most apparent to all users even those who have no idea what the asset servers do.

    Fix this problem and these blogs will remain on topic and most customers will be happily satisfied.

    Of course you will always have the eternal blog cheese heads who will find some negative to drone on about but from where I sit the DB management is the most critical.

    This is not a simple problem to correct as the entire DB system needs a re-write and most likely needs to be updated to a more current technology. In short it is as difficult to do this as it was to institute havok 4.

  143. coventina dalgleish says:

    Dear Dilbert;

    This is far from the evolution of man and the problems solved in evolution )). This is programming by rather talented but overworked coders who all, I am sure have ideas on how to solve the various problems. BUT, after 8 years of development one might make the assumption that basic needs could have been handled more efficiently.

    1999 to 2004 basic creation, 2004 a large shot in the arm by financial infusion. 2004 to 2006 rapid increase in quality and performance then in 2006 something happened and the direction of development appears to have fractured and become very tangential lacking to focus that had been there before. I am not one of those who will say I am out of here,)) there is no where to go I can only hope that by posting here that our benefactors will observe we are not all dumb and happy. Apple used the same basic TOS that LL uses until they became to large to manage then the professionals took over and created a true company. This has evolved much in the same way and now it is time to lay the hands of the professional organizers. If not, we will never have what we all desire, a good stable platform that lives up to our, and I am sure their, expectations.

  144. Catten Carter says:

    #135 Prospero Linden

    I know your fixing one of the things you broke last week. Any news on alle the physics stuff (push, collision etc) that broke in the 1.22.2 update as well?

  145. coventina dalgleish says:

    I will take one more slot to relate an observation The other day when log in was restricted the in world count fell to about 15,000 to me this indicated that all of us who went through a re log to improve performance then could not get back in were the actual customers. The 15,000 were bots who did not care what the performance was. The total on line when the problems started was approximately 60,000 thus it appears that 25% of the population are space and resource hogging bots. sorry for the extra post but I found this very interesting.

    A 25% reduction in load would go a long way to improving the game…

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