[UPDATED] Second Life Showcase, Popular Places and the Future of Traffic

[UPDATED 5.28.2008]
Note – the change outlined yesterday will not occur until 1.20 RC10 (the next version of the release candidate). I apologize for any inconvenience.

[UPDATED 5.27.2008]
We are continuing to iterate on improvements to the Search feature. Although the release notes for 1.20 RC7 indicated that Search>Places was moved to a web-based feature, this tab will be returned to its previous interface, which includes “Sort by alphabetical” or “Sort by traffic” options. This change to Search>Places will appear in 1.20 RC9… see VWR-7335 to track this fix.

The Search project aims to transform more search functionality to the web-based form (currently present in the All tab). This includes the switch from Popular Places to Showcase outlined below. We are continuing to research and discuss the future of ‘traffic’ with the Resident community. Together we’re working toward an improved method of providing metrics both to land owners and to all Residents of Second Life.


Looking for cool places to visit within Second Life? We are too! We’re pleased to announce that the Second Life Showcase is coming to the 1.21 viewer release, which is planned for Release Candidate in 2-3 weeks and in final form in 6-7 weeks.

For a sneak peek at this new feature, please visit Second Life Showcase on our website. The Showcase is an editorially-managed guide that highlights a variety of inworld venues and intriguing locations to new and existing Residents. For more info, read our Second Life Showcase FAQ; it includes information on how to suggest a venue for feature placement. We are currently developing an easier way to nominate inworld experiences for the Showcase from within the viewer, so keep an eye on this blog for more news!

The Second Life Showcase is all about quality over quantity. Our internal editorial team periodically selects new and/or popular venues to rotate into the various featured spots within the Arts & Culture, Fashion, Hot Spots, and Music categories. This new feature complements, but does not replace the more comprehensive Search tools within Second Life. However, it will be replacing the old Popular Places tab.

Since many of the inworld builds created by our community — small and large alike — are both amazing and overlooked, we’re introducing Second Life Showcase as an additional way for Residents to discover interesting places to visit. We hope this feature will make it easier and more effective to help those hotspots shine (instead of Popular Places).

Brief History of Traffic
Popular Places was initially created as a list of the 20 parcels with the most traffic on the previous day. The data that drives Popular Places has been based on raw traffic numbers, which do not differentiate between bots, campers and active Residents, and as some have pointed out, this has resulted in the tab not being an accurate reflection of true popularity among Residents.

Traffic, as currently calculated using a complex algorithm for display in Popular Places, is a number for each parcel which is based on the amount of Residents who visited, and the time spent on that parcel out of their total time inworld that day. Traffic was put in place as a way of determining interest in a build or location and was a replacement for the earlier inworld Voting Stations system. Previously, it was tied to a “Traffic Incentive” wherein parcel owners split a portion of a shared Linden dollar amount based on the total traffic their parcel has earned (this was deprecated in 2006).

For the last few years, Traffic by parcel was available to support the Popular Places listing and the sort functionality of the Places tab. It is also currently used (along with several other determiners such as Picks) to rank listings in the new Search > All tab.

Future of Traffic
It is clear that the current Traffic system is not an effective means of determining the success or popularity of a parcel, nor does it provide useful information about Residents visiting those parcels. We are interested in creating a new traffic measurement system with the goal of giving parcel owners more metrics about how many and what sort of Residents visit their parcel(s), while providing all Residents with higher-quality feedback on which places are really visited.

We are opening up the discussion about the future of Traffic: anyone from our community who is interested is invited to join the “LL Traffic Future” group for further updates and info about inworld brainstorming sessions to come. To find it in Second Life:

  • Click Search button on the toolbar at the bottom of your screen, then click All tab (on the left).
  • Search for “LL Traffic Future”.
  • Click the match that comes up in results, then click “View Full Profile”.
  • Click the “(Join L$0)” button and you’re in!

We look forward to your ideas!

About Jeska Linden

Product Manager, Instigator
This entry was posted in Announcements & News, Community, Resident Experience. Bookmark the permalink.

150 Responses to [UPDATED] Second Life Showcase, Popular Places and the Future of Traffic

  1. Obvious Schism says:

    Great news! Lets have more of these forward looking initiatives.

  2. A Concerned TSL Member says:

    Once again: ANYTHING FOR TEEN GRID? It’s been my impression that the teen grid is just totally ignored by LL. Some teens have even reported that some LL employees don’t know the teen grid exists and so have thought that support calls from the TG are pranks. New features are rolled out every day for the main grid, why don’t you do something on TG?
    How about making a Mexico Sim in TG? xD

    So, when does the Teen Grid Showcase come out?

  3. concerned says:

    Could this finally be the end of bots?heres hoping:)

  4. A Concerned TSL Member says:

    Bots? Who needs bots? Get a couple of teens if you want to make the pop. places list – we’re bored out of our skulls over here…

  5. Marianne McCann says:

    Since I started in SL (02/22/2006), “Popular places” has been a misnomer at best, leading to places that — while they may have a lot of bodies in them — are not popular beyond their camping chairs. As ‘bots hit the world, this became severly gamed and even more useless.

    I love the idea of a “showcase,” but how can four locations be enough to really fill this worlds interest? How will editorial voice affect the choices presented? It seems to lead to more questions than answers, for sure.

    At any rate, it’s a step in the right direction. I just hope things continue.

  6. Andromeda Quonset says:

    How about simply changing to no traffic measurement system at-all? That way, you don’t have the controversy of inaccuracy, or of bots, or paying for traffic (i.e. paying more for classifieds in order to have a higher listing). If someone wants any traffic info, just let them install an in-world counter on their land.

  7. Ann Otoole says:

    a great start is to immediately disable traffic completely and then brainstorm how to do it fairly. Another great start is to make intentional deception a permanent ban offense. Part of the solution will have to be policy and policed. unless sl is closed source and bots are no longer able to access the grid. bots are a problem. they can be very well programmed to mimic behavior. so as long as bots are here you can’t measure feet on parcels can you? voting will not work. the basic rule is simple. if it can be gamed for deception it will be gamed. so the only legitimate solution is to remove traffic and reduce that load from the system. let people decide where to go on their own. we are fully capable of this irl so we don’t need any help in sl either.

  8. Darren Oates says:

    Nice to hear this positive Step and thinking Great News 🙂

  9. Phil Deakins says:

    I can’t think of any reason to keep the traffic metric. If it affects the search results at all, then camping and traffic bots stay. All the dissent is to do with camping and bots. It’s true that many dissenters are mistaken about the effects of camping and bots, but the reason for discussing traffic at all is because of the dissent, so there is only one suitable future for it – get rid of it altogether.

    Incidentally, the effect of traffic in the All search is so small as to be not worth including, so removing it altogether isn’t a problem for the All search.

  10. concerned says:

    I totally agree with #7 Ann,SL is there to be explored and this is the best way of finding somewhere special or out of the ordinary.Close traffic and finish the roads get people out exploring again.

  11. Jay says:

    Omg…. What is happening with Linden Labs this year or so.

    First of all it was Havok 4, then mono, then HTML on a prim and now just today this post and seperate grid status page. Now your getting rid of popular places based on traffic.

    Someone please pinch me. I am like dreaming, what has happened with LL now 🙂

    This is too far out. lol with whats been happening over past 6 months or less.

    Now provide an service level agreement (like say 99.98% uptime), fix the memory leaks in the viewer & crashes and get working on the back end databases, then we can all be a bit happy 🙂

  12. Probably the web stats could be a useful idea giver for this project.
    such as unique visitors per day – returning visitors etc…
    based on the variety of of offer I was never a fan of the amount of time spent!

    Maybe it is possible to allow only official clients to rule out bot clients.
    I used to like the paying for picks entry idea but since 1 bot owner ripped out 7000 L$ out of me in 1 hour i stopped doing that.

    I will definitely join this group and hope there will be a solution without bots and least manipulation possibilities.

    A Bot free SL would be a good SL

  13. Awesome, groovy goodness oh blue streaked one!!!

  14. Removing traffic would be a great thing… It is no longer a useful tool, and should be depreciated.

    R.I.P Traffic…

  15. Phil Deakins says:

    @11. I’m not sure if you’ve realised it or not, but it’s only the Popular Places tab that’s going. The Places tab stays for now, and that’s the one that all the camping and traffic bots fuss is about.

  16. Ann Otoole says:

    Your search – “LL Traffic Future” – did not match anything we could find within Second Life.
    Nothing was found in Second Life containing “”LL Traffic Future””.


    * Make sure all words are spelled correctly.
    * Try different keywords.
    * Try more general keywords.

  17. Carrie Grant says:

    Traffic has gotten to just be a pain in the backside and should go but it doesn’t sound like a real alternative has been thought up. Featuring a few selected places, chosen by certain people with certain tastes and preferences doesn’t sound ideal – let the people decide for goodness sake- and if its not even in world? forget it!

    Please…just make SL work – its borked again as usual but you aren’t mentioning that on your blog.

  18. NickCA Dittmann says:

    Yup, looking good, these latest announcements. It is almost like LL is starting to care about us as customers.

    Boy would that be a welcome change. May these auspicious tidings continue to roll in.

    I would be THRILLED if the traffic issue could be addressed … have never found a cool place yet that way. Hopefully something can be dreamed up that effectively eliminates the “gaming” of the current system. It is so obviously wrong the way it is. Svarga is much prettier and more popular than any of the gamed sites.

    While you are at it, LIMIT THE NUMBER OF KEYWORDS THAT A VENDOR CAN PLACE IN DESCRIPTION – or perhaps a separate KEYWORDS field, with keywords separated by commas. Limit to, say, 10 keywords.

    M, if you are behind the sudden shift in attitude that appears to be taking place, kudos.

    And Katt is looking like a great hire. See the twitter post here.

  19. Darien Caldwell says:

    While I think removing the current popular places listing is good, and I agree that traffic is a poor indicator of actual popularity of a given place, I think the alternative being proposed is worse.

    An “editorially-managed guide” is bound to be biased toward the preferences and desires of those editing it, and will also not reflect what is truly ‘popular’. For instance, I’m willing to bet not a single adult oriented place will ever be included.

    I wish I had a great idea for an alternative, but if it was a simple issue, it would have been solved by now. I fear there will never been a real, actual measure or method for determining the actual popularity of a place in Second Life.

  20. Jay says:

    @15 Yep i know its only top 20 buts at least it’s start. If i was a newbie now and went to the top 20 places i would probably log out and not come back to SL. They just seem to be filled mainly with campers who aren’t doing anything much and who are being paid some stupid low rate of 1L per 20 mins (compared to a year ago of say 2L per 10 mins) or something and to me it’s kinda flawed business plan anyway if you have to pay people to come and stay at your location but thats just my little old opinion 🙂

  21. hope antonelli says:

    @19 For instance, I’m willing to bet not a single adult oriented place will ever be included.

    I can almost guarantee you this will never happen; can you ever see a Gorean sim ending up on the list? Which is too bad, considering they have some really good builds on some of them.

  22. Stephen Psaltery says:

    Numeric metrics are awesome and absolutely should be part of the new traffic system, but lets not stop there. How about heat maps (overhead view of the parce (rest of sim greyed out if its not part of the same parcel) where the time residents spend per location (AvatarHours) is total up in the form of colors on the map.

    So if the NE corner of your parcel has ALOT of avararhours It may be a bright white, say, while the SE Corner which only rarely ever has people would be very nearly black. This lets us no on the fly where people spend their time.

    Finally (and JUST as neccessary) an exit AND a separate entry map. This would work in the same manner as the heat map, but high concentration of white is where most avatars enter (teleport in/log in/enter the parcel via walking/flying) and on the exit map, the concetration of white would be where most people log out (teleport out/log out/walk or fly out). This three maps would give such a huge wealth of information it cant be undervalued.

    Yes, yes. Existing services offer SOME of this functionality, but entries and exits for them are at best a guess, and they create sim lag when the simulator itself is keenly aware of all these statistics at all times. I highly doubt simply writing them to a log file would cause any additional overhead (they may do it already).

    The maps and metrics could be generated daily or weekly so as to not cause undo lag on the sim OR completely take it out of second life (so no sim lag) and make it available on the web via our account panel with drop downs to parse the data for various time periods on demand.

    FINALLY ( I know! Long post! Sorry) If linden lab really doesn’t want to take the time to write the extension to the website to provide these maps and metrics simply let us get at the raw log files for our parcels only. Have a dump available with a drop down for the parcel name, and two fields for time period. That way we have 100 percent accurate data, and only need to parse it out to make it pretty.


  23. Stephen Psaltery says:

    Ugh My apologies to everyone reading my last post. The sheer number of spelling and grammatical errors make me bow my head in shame. *grins*

    I think I let my excitement get the better of me! Glad to hear the time are a’changin’!

  24. concerned says:

    @20 it is and if you rent mall space from people using campers you are paying for traffic that does not exsist.VOTE NO TRAFFIC,NO REPLACMENT.

  25. Amaterasu Cinquetti says:

    I agree with all the others in their call to just get rid of Traffic. Whichever way it has been done it has been gamed. There is no real way that it can be organised to stop it being gamed in the future.
    Putting in methods to differentiate the types of visitors won’t solve this issue. People will just find another way around it. So you break the listing into categories: Bots, Payment info on File, No Payment Info, etc, then those that game it will just create ways to make it look like the preferred type of avie has been there.

  26. carmichael says:

    lol sl people are so cute…..everytime i see a post here all concerned with an adorable picture of themsleves along with it,i melt……long live SL!!

  27. ac14 Hutson says:

    took a look at the showcase. not bad but i feel its biased. i mean it has arts and culture (ok) fashon (LOL LIKE THATS NOT GOING TO IMPROVE THE FEATURED STORES SALES AT ALL LOL) hotspots (seems ok for now) music (same thing as fashon) photos and machimia(alright but it dosent include mine and wills recreation of the mall chase secne from the blues brothers? i think the lindens really dont care about TG :D) and tutorials (alright)

    my opinion, it shouldnt features stores unless it rotates through every store in the game and everyone gets equal time. but the better suggestion is just to get rid of and store endorsement and make it fair.

  28. Sausage Hax says:

    I think instead of traffic, every resident should be able to give each place a rating (for example, out of five stars). It should be easy to give a rating, and implemented inside the UI, rather then in-world voting booths.

    Places could now be sorted by their star rating, rather then popularity. Botting and camping would have no effect.

    Although, people could theoretically create alt accounts and give themselves high ratings, perhaps voting should be limited to the age of the account. Limiting it to verified, or premium accounts would be a bad idea though.

    I think scripts should not be able to determine what a resident has voted, otherwise, land owners could “bribe” residents to give a high vote.

    Maybe scripts could tell only if a resident has or has not voted, so landowners could promote the voting tool, but without affecting the actual rating.

  29. Stephen Psaltery says:

    @28 Sausage Hax. Second life years ago had that exact system. People abused the hell out of it and it was removed.

  30. LS says:

    I think taking the traffic count away would be a wonderful start. However, changing over to an “editorial review” system doesn’t make sense. You, at LL, are always giving us the impression that you are working on things as fast as you can, meaning you have limited staff as it is. I can’t imagine it being a good thing to raise your workload even more, setting aside more customer service, or other help that would be more valuable.

    Why not go back to the voting system? The more people that visit, the more votes you get. 1 Avatar can only vote once per day. What was wrong with that system? It reflects the visitors, even if alts are used, how many alts can a person possibly create to generate enough votes to compete with a really hopping spot? Why not take a step back and look at the simple solutions first?

  31. concerned says:

    Also residents could vote for eachother on appearence,building etc but this was removed to lessen strain on the databases was removed and how we still lag to this day,lol

  32. Slip Harbour says:

    Fantastic news for Second Life!

    Bad news for the owners of Sims like “ECHo Island” and “Villa” who have a nice collection of BOTS traffic shaping high up in the skies even as I type this.

    Good work Linden!

  33. Ener Hax says:

    i guess it’s good eh? 8scratches head* will join the group and look at links. thanks on the update

    oh, and hi to Sausage Hax, are you my cousin? 🙂

  34. Sausage Hax says:

    @29 Stephen Psaltery

    How was it abused? Would there be a way for LL to avoid this abuse in a similar system?

  35. concerned says:

    Jeska could you look to check if the group has been created? its not showing in search still.

  36. Sausage Hax says:

    (continued from 34)
    Also, to clarify, this voting system would not keep track of the number of votes, but rather the average rating.

  37. toric says:

    The group is in search, but you will need to dig ahead a few pages to find it.

  38. Jeska Linden says:

    If you’re having trouble finding the group (which was recently created and may not have been fully indexed yet) – go to my profile (Jeska Linden) and select the LL Traffic Future group to join it.

  39. Pingback: Second Life changes coming - Popular Places OUT Hotspots IN « Bishara Life

  40. Amity Slade says:

    To promote the Showcase as “an editorially-controlled area that highlights some of the best inworld venues and locations that might be of interest to new and existing Residents,” then to allow “purchase of high-level placement,” would be dishonest.

  41. Wanja Lubitsch says:

    People will abuse every system.

    Anyway, get rid of traffic is a good idea.
    Having a committee or as say say “editorially-controlled” way of qualifying sims is not a good idea, as it always will smell unfair.

    The best way in my opinion is a democratic approach, that is voting. I see the problem that this can be abused, it is as vulnerable as any election is. A way of identifying valid voters is necessary, like you have to show your ID in a polling place. I think using the age of the avatar is a good idea, along with a limited number of votes per each avatar to assign to sims. Let’s say 10% of the number of existing sims. And let each avatar assign as much votes to a place as are available.

  42. Ciaran Laval says:

    26th group please! I’m fully booked, or do I have to create an alt to keep updated. Bleh.

    I’m not really keen about the idea of you guys endorsing inworld business, it’s fine for events, non for profit, scenes of beauty and such like but endorsing business with a free plug is not the business you guys should be in, that’s what residents are for!

  43. Phil Deakins says:

    Why have voting, or any other ranking alternatives for the Places tab? Just get rid of the tab altogether. Would anyone miss it? The All search is the best search in SL, by a *very* long way – and it has a Places catgegory. What good is the Places tab?

  44. Petronilla Whitfield says:

    In order to make the showcase more useful and in order to avoid some types of places being left out, it might be helpful to have showcase categories, like those currently used in the Places search but perhaps more specific. For example, one might have showcase “Beaches,” “Parks,” “Adult Entertainment,” “Fantasy,” and so on.

  45. Cocoanut Koala says:

    I really don’t think you should be in the business of deciding, for instance, which fashion stores you want to send the most business to.


  46. Harle Armistice says:

    Simply distinguishing between ‘unique’ visitors and ‘total time spent by visitors’ would be an obvious move.

    Websites have been making this distinction for ages, because the difference between unique visitors and repeat visitors(day by day) makes a huge impact on how marketable a website is to advertisers.

    Just, instead of repeat visits, since SL is a realtime service, it would have to be established differently.

    If I want to know how popular a spot is before actually visiting, I’d want to know how many unique visitors they get per day, what the average time spent there is, as well as the mean amount of time, and the mode(presuming segments of time, such as ( 6 hours).

    The current traffic system already takes some of this into account, but it lumps it all together into a single statistic, which makes it too easy to manipulate.

  47. Tillie Ariantho says:

    I dont need no traffic measurement either. Get rid of it!

  48. Ann Otoole says:

    @45 concur. LL has always displayed rather blatant favoritism where the fashion page is concerned. generally if your not paying LL tons of money your not showing up there. i guess bribery is part of sl.

  49. I CANNOT WAIT to see a future in the popular list. When you have a skybox full of bots & a room full of campers boosting your traffic it just doesn’t seem right. Lets see how this goes………

  50. Harle Armistice says:

    Okay, html screwed up my last post. =(

    It was supposed to be (less than 30 minutes, 30-60 minutes, 1-2 hours, 2-4 hours, 4-6 hours, etcetera)

  51. Stephen Psaltery says:

    @Sausage Hax – People had “rating parties” where the whole point was for a bunch of people to get together and rate each other and their things so everyone would get a bonus. This meant everyone had near perfect and incredibly huge ratings. Having a low rating just meant you were still new, or not very social.

    Then there was griefing where gangs of people would destroy certain individuals by getting a whole bunch of people together to negatively rate the targets and their things in a form of griefing.

  52. Harle Armistice says:

    @ 45 & 48

    I actually more read this to be landmarks, hangout spots, beautiful spots, etcetera. More than just, y’know.. shops. Places of cultural interest.

    But regardless, I don’t actually see the problem with it. It ends up being free advertising for people, and I’m sure the list will change regularly. They’re citing a ‘nomination’ process whereby the userbase can suggest spots to showcase. I’m not really seeing a problem with it.

  53. Pingback: Lindens Looking at Traffic | Lost in Bananaverse

  54. carmichael says:

    OMG i cant create objects…again…guys please cooooome on,fix something that lasts longer than 12 hours……come ooon

  55. Darien Caldwell says:

    Search for “LL Traffic Future” with quotes, comes up easily that way.

  56. carmichael says:

    woohooo good u fixed it

  57. Shai Khalifa says:

    Great to hear that you’ve finally taken something into consideration people have been yelling loudly about for ages.

    It’s hard for those of us who don’t use any form of bots or camping, but who consistently get good daily traffic of REAL visitors to get recognised. Any alternative to pure traffic count is a bonus.

    Next you can do something to CLEAN UP THE EVENTS LISTINGS. Please someone – anyone – apply the Agreement to Events – if it’s not about Live Music – it shouldn’t be listed there for example.

    … but I’m pleased LL and the new Communications person seem to be actually doing something to address some of the user issues.

  58. TC says:

    we don’t want new features, we want a stable grid. and you have to think about a refund policy, you wanted it to be an economy. that means people are losing real money each time your servers are acting up. sort that out first and stop covering rust with paint.

  59. Bertram Merlin says:

    I do not think this is werry helpfull… hmm.. give it some days and the system is been found out and again it not gives a fair chance
    for ones great place to be found. Bots camping, paying for put in picks… and so on…. Let people self find the places and drop all
    this strange ways of trying to share sun and wind equel.. It never
    gonna happens… :))

    Betram Merlin

    Baron’s Bay

  60. Qie says:

    “We are interested in creating a new traffic measurement system with the goal of giving parcel owners more metrics about how many and what sort of Residents visit their parcel(s), …”


    “… while providing all Residents with higher-quality feedback on which places are really visited.”

    Waste of time. Sorry, but the days when dwell meant anything to anybody are long past. It’s quaintly appealing, perhaps, to imagine that anyone would want to know about this for parcels other than their own. But there is no way to prevent any such metric from being gamed, and even if there were, NOBODY CARES about this other than the parcel owner themselves. If anything, places with high traffic–even high *ungamed* traffic–are places to avoid.

    I suppose, if search results were ranked by the *inverse* of some traffic measure, it could help folks avoid lag and improve stability by spreading agents around better. But really, it’s better to just drop this from public view altogether.

  61. concerned says:

    @58 You say you want a stable grid well reducing bot load would help i am sure so why are you not supporting this?

  62. Cat Cotton says:

    Please do away with dwell entirely. There is no real purpose to these numbers since L$ dwell was taken away. The system currently in place is gamed and the results of which are just plain X rated for the most part. If you do away with the incentive; fake dwell numbers; you then do away with 1000’s of AFK Av’s lagging sim’s to unbearable status.

    The bottom line is it doesn’t matter who or when ppl visit your place its what they did while they were there. Traffic numbers should be based on things like purchases. Creative measures will have to be devised for non profit or residential sims. Perhaps a single point for entry but nothing for that entry sitting there all day. I don’t have all the answers but then again I am not employed by LL so it isn’t my job to “Make it work”. LL Please do.


  63. Tasrill Sieyes says:

    I have to say this is the best idea in a while. Traffic has been gamed and causing increased log ins and lag be it by bots or just by people logged in and not doing anything. Just do away with it and work on refining the search engine. We don’t need to have traffic next to every parcel we just need to be able to find what we are looking for.

  64. Traffic as a metric of time and amount of visitors should only be available to parcel owners. Even in its arcane form, we can figure out if a place is getting any visits. Some form of visitor tracking should be built into the parcel for the owners’ use.

    But for search – new or old, it should be abolished. It just asks people to abuse the system with bots. Even though all systems are subject to abuse, I think we can handle other methods better than bots, which tax our asset servers as concurrency grows.

    I agree with 9/Phil Deakins that since traffic is so minuscule to the new search, that it can be discarded completely as a ranking factor. You can always sort Places by parcel creation date or something objective that cannot be gamed.

  65. One measure of success by traffic is this:

    If you have managed to create a build that people desire to visit and enjoy,
    while still managing to keep traffic at a low enough level that the sim remains useful, you have succeeded.

    Unfortunately, too many people are caught up in that whole first-life idiom of “needing to make money”, and that general attitude ruins the game.

  66. @63: I would love to see a CAPTCHA on the login.
    No more bots.

  67. fword says:

    hi, i used the group search to find this group, and I get a billion results.

  68. concerned says:

    @67 check 38 Jeskas reply

  69. Caemy W says:

    I know LL has considered the fallout from any sort of accurate count that would do away with campers/bots/alts. It would severely affect their online daily figures. I would go as far to say that doing away with campers/bots would cut daily online figures by 50% if not more.
    Popular Places is a joke. The only thing it shows (to the ones of us that know) are who has the most campers/bots. It has nothing to do with popularity.
    I feel an in game counter that realizes different avatars would be best. Or perhaps a counter you click, similar to the old green vote boxes.
    Something else that would work would be a counter to count different avatars within a 24 hour period, as I’m sure many would even pay people to teleport in and out to raise the count (*gasp*).
    I dont know the answer but agree that something needs done.

  70. Shadowquine Maltz says:

    I can’t find any trace of the group in search.

    In regards to the “how rating was abused” comments:

    To my knowledge rating was abused by residents arbitrarily giving everything negative ratings.

    Negative ratings were removed, and that took the only inkling of repercussions for actually having negative behavior with it. Eventually ratings were done away with. “Cutting the fluff” I suppose.

    Abuse is one thing… just don’t forget exploitation either. Rating parties anyone?

    Accounts are free now. Need more votes? Make more accounts.

    Also, slip in a few good keywords for search and you take #1 for anything in your list. Not to say keywords are bad, oh no. Paired with a bogus traffic rating it just helps to skew things.

    If there is any way to exploit a system it WILL be exploited.

  71. Ilana Debevec says:

    First. Disable Traffic Immediately. Right now. End of Camping.

    Second. NON premium residents get a 100/wk stipend. End of Camping. However, they have to GO TO A LINDEN PAY STATION to get it. Some actually has to log in as the AV, not running a thin client. Go to it, click it, respond to a dialog box, Get paid. Once per week per AV.

    Third. Integrate the ‘pay station’ into a new voting system, bring back the voting box! Multiple boxes PER PARCEL allowed, but they all aggerate to votes for that ONE PARCEL. One per AV, per day.

    Collecting the stipend from a given parcels paystation/voting box can count as an extra vote per av/per week (it’s popular enought that people want to come there to get their stipend).

  72. Seann Sands says:

    Finally! Great news! Interesting that it came on the heels of the Massively Tateru Nino’s article today about how 1/5 of all SL users (logged in at one time) might be Bots! And she has good figures to back that statement. Obviously, the popular tab and traffic figures were/are being used by people to gain free/important advertising to their parcels. It hurts when I spend a lot of the classified system in the inworld search…knowing that putting 100 bots high in the sky above my lands would produce more traffic and cost a lot less! I’m glad to see the Lindens realized that to keep real world business people interested…you need a more level playing field. Hopefully, this is a trend…

  73. Renee Faulds says:

    While some people complain about campers let me point out

    This is a major source of income for new residents.

    If you stop camping it is one more nail in the coffin lid of SL’s economy.

    It is like laying off half the workers in SL>

    Think about that

    The economy is in the pits right now because LL can not keep the data base working. Yet instead of putting the majority of energy into fixing that first and the viewer, no here we go off on another side road.

    Fix what is wrong FIRST – jeez.

    Is that just too hard for you to understand?????

  74. Tristin Mikazuki says:

    hhmm… more shinny…

  75. Very Keynes says:

    If Traffic has to stay, and I would rather see it go, it should at leasted be linked to the parcel size. A small club or store, on 2048m, with a regular count of 10 avies, should at least rank as high as a full sim that has 50+ scatterd all over it.

  76. concerned says:

    @73 Campers log on 20 minutes sometimes for 1 LS,So lets double that and be generous,6 l$ per hour lets say logged in 16 hours a day(waking hours)this makes 96 L$ per day about 34 cents so 10 campers on for a total of 160 hours might possibly spend $3.40

  77. Dekka Raymaker says:

    @ Renee Faulds, where does it say camping is going to be banned? If camping does stop it’s because those already paying for camping will decide to stop it. Personally I know a few parcels that provide camping as a means to give money to new players without there being any other reason for it to be there. One island I manage has two camp spots and the area is promoted as a meeting place only, it as helped and introduced many new players to SL and many have remained in game for months.

    Although not expected, the financial returns for the person who provided this service has been through the players staying in SL for the long term and quite a few have bought/rented land from this person.

    Quoting you “Fix what is wrong FIRST – jeez.” well traffic has been broken for a long time, now they are fixing it, right?

  78. Dekka Raymaker says:

    Sorry for a second post, but regarding Lindens Labs have any decision regarding which places end up in the Showcase, just remember what happened at SLEX when the co-owner Anshe Millionaire introduced her own $10 listing section!

  79. Renee Faulds says:


    I have actually seen places that pay $6ld/20 min.- kudos to them

    As I stated before this is a major source of income for new residents.


    I agree traffic is broke but I would not rank fixing it first but well below fixing the asset server situation first.

    If the asset server problem is not fixed first – there will be no need to fix traffic because there will not be much to count.

  80. concerned says:

    @80 how can it be a major source of income even at 6l$/20 minutes for them to buy a decent pair of shoes lets say that is going to take lets say 3 days camping,If the bot were gone SL would speed up meaning noobs would be more likely to consider spending real money here meaning ecconomy grows,load is lessened and bot farms are gone.

  81. Jeska Linden says:

    @2 – we will offer a Teen version of the Showcase as well, which will only appear on the Teen Grid version of the viewer. Sorry to miss this in the announcement.

  82. MimiSoleil Dagger says:

    Kill traffic.

    I find myself staying away from areas listed with astronomical traffic anyway. And those numbers persuade many people to go to traffic manipulated areas that are almost never unique in their art, entertainment or shopping choices. Those places are almost always huge generic boxes designed to just drain newbies of their time and Ls, giving them a shoddy experience in Second Life.

  83. Simon Kline says:

    Wow this is great! I think also an EDUCATION section would be neat also as people are lost where to find quality SL education as far as building / scripting as well as other types of free real world education in SL.

    I agree totally with the previous posts mentioning the amazing work LL have done esp in the last 6 months, voice, mono, havok, search just to name a few, these are all projects that have been a long time coming but are finally being used in world. I know Jeska was involved with most of these things in one way or another and I thank her for her awesome common sense approach to these things, but there’s many more behind the scenes too fantastic work guys 😀

  84. Solomon Devoix says:

    Hmmm. Why not an experiment? Turn traffic OFF and remove it from all Search metrics for 30 days. See what happens. (i.e. fewer logged in [bots], less strain on grid, less lag, whatever) If ‘successful’ (less lag, less strain, etc.) leave it off. Sure, talk about a more fair replacement, but go ahead and put Traffic out of its misery, at least on a trial basis, NOW.

  85. rock says:

    Unique IPs, 5 minutes, done.

    Linden Labs, monitor accounts switching IPs (multiple times), done.

    However, linden labs could EASILY monitor how many bots are logged in @ once via a computer. Not sure why this is even an issue.

  86. Kimo Junot says:

    OK..this really makes no sense to me..but yes in a way it does seeing how everyone at LL seems to ignore what everyone says and pleas for in here. You all are NOW working on ideas to change the traffic..well that is just wonderful.. What about fixing what is broke first instead of messing with something like the traffic??? ALOT of people including myself have lost ALOT of money this past month because of all the problems in SL ..alot have gone out of business and alot still are going out of business and are trying to sell there land as fast as possible…but yet you all worry about the future of traffic??? I think you guys at LL are in your own lil world that has nothing to do with what is going on right now IN WORLD.

  87. adamstheman writer says:

    What about the TP issues tonight? Arent you guys gonna address that?

  88. Jeska Linden says:

    Also, I’d like to thank everyone for their thoughts and feedback on the future of traffic, I’ll be taking your ideas back to our team for discussion – I’d like to encourage you all to join the group LL Traffic Future (use my profile if you can’t find it in Search).

  89. la le lu says:

    @86 we are behind a masqueraded network. this means that 1 to 6 clients in our lab appear to logged in from one ip address.

    in general, bots are not bad per se. we use bots as more natural behaving info systems or as a basis/media for new art forms. i use a bot for my TTS system and looking for bind in OpenCyc via Cyn (program-N). but to use bots for ‘stealing’ (there is noting stolen, it’s just copied), cheat traffic or camp armies is for sure a bad use of bots.

  90. Aramain Bailey says:

    I really like this idea, but please have it also work on the teen grid. It’s so unfair that it seems like everything in Second Life only applies to the main grid. We are the future of Second Life, as well as your future customers!

  91. concerned says:

    Thanks Jeska and LL for starting to move on these issues,No matter what you decide it will upset people if you plan to fix things people want other things fixed or want thinks left as they are and i can complain as much as anyone if its effecting me.

    85 Solomon Devoix probably made the most sense tonight lets have a trial with no traffic at all see what happens.

  92. Bobo Decosta says:

    I can only favourite getting rid of traffic. But I don’t believe LL will get rid of it as the bots make the numbers for LL. No bots means the traffic will also go down drastically for Second Life™. We will finally be able to see how much real people are visiting SL.

    Can’t believe LL would dare to expose real numbers to the world.

  93. Loniki Loudon says:

    Great news and the single most effective thing you can do to get back control of the run away database. But please, no fancy metrics, no fancy coding, KISS, simple alphabetical order. Equality in the search places engine. You already have a search engine, classifieds, for people who want to buy a high position and customers who want to pay that overhead.

  94. Seann Sands says:

    @93 Hit the sad truth behind the slow changing of traffic (if it actually happens) LL needs higher numbers to show businesses to invest real dollars into the grid. If 1/5 of all avatars turned out to be bots…some of the business would realize it’s inflated numbers LL are passing as real. Ban the bot farms…and we’ll see the real numbers.

  95. Monalisa Robbiani says:

    How abot creating a web catalogue / portal with topics and sub categories


  96. Argos Hawks says:

    Please leave traffic on the About Land page. I find it is a useful tool for looking at not only my own land, but other people’s. I can look around and see what people are doing to generate traffic, then look at the number to get an idea of how much time people are spending there. I love the number for my own place, because it lets me know how busy my place has been while I’ve been away. I’m fine with dumping it as a way to list places, but keep the metric in the About Land page. Don’t bother trying to come up with a system that can’t be gamed. ANY system can be gamed.

  97. C. R. says:

    @73: I have a hard time seeing campers as workers. They sit there doing nothing; that makes camping useless. Land owners pay them to do it in order to game the traffic measurement system; that makes it fraudulent. And all those camping bots take up excessive resources, causing SL to falter under the load; that makes it abusive. If *that* is a major factor in the economy of SL, that just means it’s urgent to fix it. The sooner camping is gotten rid of, the better.

    Of course, SL also has an interest in the total of all those fraudulently inflated traffic numbers, as they can sport a higher number of logged-in “residents” on the home page and make SL appear to be more popular than it actually is. That is why SL hasn’t gotten rid of camping yet.

  98. Foxxe Wilder says:

    Campers are nothing but an attraction for camperbots and other assorted griefers and that entire traffic system SHOULD be abolished ONCE and for ALL as yet another FAILURE.

    Popularity is a 2 headed coin – it can mean GOOD and naturally, BAD as well. A perfect example of this is any of the sandboxes – you will see that the traffic to these areas is incredible BUT MOST of the time they are totally useless due to the fact that MUCH of the traffic are mere GRIEFERS.

    Also see ancient Sims that have, in the past before the invention of the SL RECESSION due to continued screwups by LL, VERY HIGH traffic numbers. These numbers are VERY misleading now and ONLY serve to attract the NAIVE prospective land purchasers who think that it MIGHT be a good place for business. (Sorry peeps but that is NOT the case anymore!)

    Get off the pot and dump the crap out of the system. TOO much resources are being WASTED on this USELESS program anyways.

  99. Razrcut Brooks says:

    LL has finally realized that Popular Places in search “showcases” sims that offer orgy rooms and lindens for residents who camp/fill out agonizingly long surveys. For those new to SL, they are left with a sad impression . Orgy rooms and welfare islands are not where the majority spends their time. They are always heavily populated with new residents-but the majority of us are scattered elsewhere.
    Thank you LL and Jeska for finally doing away with Popular Places. I look forward to the future discussions concerning how to best calculate traffic. I agree with some of the above comments that traffic can be measured in-world by business owners with scripted tools and that any official traffic numbers kept by SL will always lead to false numbers. Orgy rooms are fine, but they should no longer depend upon the free advertising they receive in Popular Places.

  100. Mini Pinion says:

    Using the picks to determine popularity of a region is about as useless as the old traffic system, between the chance to make a gazillion (well at least 4 ‘official’ ones) alts and the stupid ‘pay for your picks’ systems, that poped up. Due to the later each alt you make is (at least) worth 250L$/month now.

    A double yay for manipulation of the search system, as we already know and love it from RL 😦

  101. Anthony Hocken says:

    I agree that unique visitors is much better than total time spent. For example count the avatars who spend 5 or more mins on a parcel. Campers/bots are a huge waste of resources and this would help alot. How much server resources is spent accommodating bots just to increment a number associated with each parcel! So pointless. And to help prevent bots from TP-ing between a list of parcels every 5 mins you could just ignore avatars who have already been counted several times in a given hour – eg allocate 5 points per hour to each avatar, and when they visit a parcel (for the first time that day) one of those points is given to the parcel.

  102. Anthony Hocken says:

    @97 “Don’t bother trying to come up with a system that can’t be gamed. ANY system can be gamed.”

    That’s way too simplistic. The harder it is to game the less it will be gamed and the least impact/damage it’ll cause. It’s like saying “Why password protect Ebay accounts because they’ll be scammed anyway.”

  103. Trella McMahon says:

    Well seems like a huge joke since you are kicking back live event posting for mis spelled words which are the names of the live singing avi, and the names of clubs.

    Please correct the entries highlighted in yellow.
    * Invalid Event description, please try again.

    Why don’t you correct things for good so live events and live singers stop losing real money on your broken system which only works sometimes at best, and other times we get the note above, for the names of live singers trying to be announced each week in event’s, BTW this is what you kicked back,

    Gia’s Fashion Cabaret & Event Center proudly welcomes Allistar Westland! He can tear up the guitar, and his vocals are amazing! Playing a combo of new and classic rock on both acoustic and electric guitars, he’s just gonna rock down the house at Gia’s! It’s an hour of live music you just shouldn’t miss!
    Be sure to check out the new Princess Kissing booth while your there! Weds evening 6 p.m. SLT

    Gia’s Fashion Cabaret
    Live Upcoming Events;

    May 7 Erin & Satin
    May 14 Phemie Alott
    May 21 Mikelec Criss

    The mis spellings you are claiming are the name of the club which at times posts to events with no issues and for the very spelling of the live singer’s names as miss spelled words. Part of the name of the live singer is one you provide. So please fix it, and stop killing live venues as well live singers trying to sing.

  104. Knowl Paine says:

    Camping the dumbest thing ever. I pay people to hang out on my land to try and make my land appear busy and populated. Maybe the money spent on creating this sort of façade would be more wisely spent by creating new and interesting world content.

    Real jobs? If the only way for the average Joe or Jane to make money is to be a piece of furniture on your land, then you get what you pay for.

    Take all the money you pay to those campers and hire a manager. A real person I can talk to and not some camper whose eating cheerios in the other room.

    Who are these mysterious bot owners? Is there no way to track them down?

    There needs to be a way to hire people. A menu selection or friends list or sub-division in the groups tab that would allow employers have a list of employee’s that shows their last login and how much time they spent online. A “pay-all” feature would be great.

    The way things are in SL now workers haven’t any confirmation of an agreement beyond which is verbally spoken. Working would be entirely on a voluntary basis and information gathered and used by LL on those specific activities for the betterment of SL would be fine by me.

    As an employee I would not have a problem if I had to open a menu window and perform some sort of interface every 10 or 15 minutes to stay on the payroll. Or better yet I could perform the task or duty, which was assigned to me while I wait.

    Ok my point: Use the labor and wages data to help calculate Traffic.

    This can work for everyone. As an owner I can be confident that only those on my payroll get my lindens. I can hire a manager who can greet members and discuss employment options I offer.

    As a worker I see in my group tab or profile that I have a Job! I can work diligently with the understanding that we have an agreement.

  105. pepita says:

    i like to say couple things about this …

    first im gonna already sayn that here in my house we are 3 people that uses secondlife….one is my cusing who has a good job and gets paid real good and have hes money to spend in SL…the other is his kid who dosent need to do it…and the third person is me….

    now im gonna be real honest…i do use bots and as i was talkin to a sim owner the other day who banned me from runing bots i told her like this….well in my opinion is a change…u give me what i want and i give u what u want ‘ trafic ‘ ….in my vision i think is best to get somebody that runs bot and make an agreement…ok im gonna do a closed group and only u can run this camp…that way u dont have problems about people sending IM complaning about this and that….

    now lets get in to LL side of the history….yes if u guys do it u guys have alot to loose and yall know that…and that might work even for some of yall sim owners that are here complaning because u have to think…

    like i said …like my self its alot of other people in SL that rent land and pay they tier with camp money…so in consequence of that u guys loose also because if they dont have they income they will have to give up on they land since they like my self dont wanna put RL money to pay tier….

    so i think its alot of things that needs to be reviewed before making a move like that….

    and no im not broke and no i do have a job…i just dont like to put RL money in to SL…and people say oh sl is to have fun…ok for those that dont do they dont know that runing them for us is FUN also….at least for me it is…irs not just for the fact that it pays my tier…i do enjoy doing it and i do have fun doin it…

    i guess its just a diferent…

    serious for those out there that call us names..say that we are greed…hey nobody is stoping u guys from do int either….so before callin us names and this and that just remember that we are NOT taking money from nobody…is just a change…the devices are there to be used so if u feel im bad because i use lets say 5 avs and u only have 1 why dont u go and run 6? thats just an example…people get so mad at us for no reason…

  106. sirhc deSantis says:

    Chill children – can’t you smell those fresh sea breezes permeating our world? Blogs left open to posts and concerns being talked about? I have a little garden and from hour to hour the so called ‘traffic’ changes big time. I welcome this. Whether the goddesses and gods pull it off we shall see

  107. Winter Ventura says:

    I hope that Linden Lab has some kind of “Special override” to deal with the “normal” failures of group notices in large groups.. because a lot of people seem to be joining that group.

  108. Jesse says:

    Why have a showcase tab? Just get rid of the traffic system that presents a useless drain of grid resources, drives an unattractive industry of zombified mooching, and tricks the new resident into a very bad image during the first impression time of his second life.

    I don’t think Linden Lab needs to be promoting any residents venues, or creations. I think the impact of the opinions on what should and shouldn’t be “featured” at any given time presents an unfair element in to what should be a fair and balanced atmosphere.

    The idea was to create a world and let the residents build it. Everything in it. This should include any and all publication of what someone thinks is neat or what “popular opinion” holds in the highest regards. I never thought pushing the CSI sims on the front page of the web site was very classy, and this isn’t much better.

    I am very curioous to know how Second Life will perfom after the traffic system is removed and the popular places tab is deprecated. I have a feeling it will be so much improved that I will tend to be skeptical about any new institution of measure regarding tracking and profiling.

  109. Mook says:

    What traffic does do is introduce a whole lot of extra cash into the SL economy that wouldn’t otherwise be there.

    Whats going to replace that cashflow?

  110. Cat Cotton says:

    @anyone who claims that no traffic will put newbies out of a job.

    When you have 40-100 just sitting in camping chairs they do more damage to their hosts than good. I have been to these sims to BUY something, I get there and I can’t move because of the extreme lag.

    So what in the end did the ppl paying the campers really accomplish? They drove up their numbers but made their space unusable. How did the campers benefit? They got L$2 per every 10 min. For what? So they could go buy some 400 prim boots. Again lagging the system.

    No matter how I look a its a lose lose situation.

    If campers have to get up and go find free or god forbid learn to create objects. What a great day that would be!

  111. Jesse says:

    The cash would still be there, the merchants still want to market their goods to the residents, they would simply have to find a better way of judging where residents were going and spending time. Another industry perhaps, like in the real world… statistical, metrics, surveys, etc. Marketing info is acquired by rl companies in these ways, by other companies. These companies would need employees, and very little experience would be required to conduct a survey, so there’s new jobs, no need to camp to earn money if the economy creates other avenues for the new resident.
    If the new resident doesn’t want to work, and doesn’t want to buy L$, then they can just be broke:)

  112. Premium Member says:

    Ban Camping problem solved!

  113. That distant groan is the sound of ten thousand bots and campers lifting their shackles in unison, for their days of being chained to chairs and benches, enslaved to the iron wheels of the mighty traffic engine, are drawing to a close.

    “Free at last, oh Linden, we are free lat last!”

  114. Domchi Underwood says:

    I have mixed feelings about this one.

    Yes, the camping is ugly. But popular places (which should be “camping places”) is the only newbie-findable way to find places where you can earn small amounts of L$ to try SL.

    Many people don’t have credit cards, or simply don’t want to leave credit card info. There has to be a way for those people to earn some small amount of money in the L$1000 range, just to try buying something and see what it’s like.

    On the other hand, if you fix popular places, the people who run camping only to give money will be able to continue doing it (though they will be a bit harder to find), and the people who’re paying for traffic will have to find another way to buy views and resident time, which is not a bad thing.

    Kinda like Google transforming online advertising from annoying banners to something more intelligent and actually helpful to users.

    So which one will it be, raising the bar for new users, or making SL more enjoyable? Hard to say, since it depends on both the success (or failure) of SL showcase and the community.

  115. janeforyou Barbara says:

    Banning botsavs and camping yes,, but take away traffick? hmm.. there are many members,, tousens that get a living or a sideincome in SL anf need to meshure traffick in some way.. Voting can be abused.. conters can be abused .. no matter what system thay use some smartass will make some gadget to fix that lolololol

    Ban bots and camping.. it just look silly..keep traffick counting in some way tho. 🙂

  116. Dear Linden Labs says:

    Deleting all bot accounts will in no way effect my continuing desire to be an active member of Second Life.

    Business regions should be created. Create some kind of order. A regions rating is rarely enforced. Servers in business or sales regions can be dedicated to specific common transactions and certain no relevant functions like particles and flying genitals disabled.

    Every thing is to scattered it is like a zoo. What friggin nut bag dreamed up the layout of the SL world? 80 zillion servers every server can pull every bit of data about what kind of socks I’m wearing!

    New term: LRA – Limited Regional Abilities –

  117. Jesse says:

    Any number of our creative residents could script systems from the simple people counter to the elaborate web based reporting systems which could tell you what color their underwear were .

    Regardless the individual could decide how much resource to dedicate to tracking. I actually see quite an opportunity for the talented web-SL knowledgeable scripters to create systems merchants could subscribe to for info and land owners could subscribe to be sought out by those merchants as well.

  118. Not Jesse says:

    With only a few available posting left in this forum maybe we can offer new ideas and topics of discussion that may lead to a positive solution rather than boast about ones’ abilities.

  119. Arcadia Jonson says:

    Kill the BOTs….

    How can we report BOT sightings????
    This practice needs to end now to make it fair for all of us…

  120. Elpis Oh says:

    Yeah; it would be great…if the group actually showed up in search!

    /me gives up and goes back to building

  121. MIB says:

    @120 Elevated levels of ghost particle have been detected in your region and there is no need to report your alleged sighting of a bot. It is likely that what you saw was a reflection on your monitor from an ambient light source.
    An agent will contact you.

  122. Cat Cotton says:

    @119 Ok; Only give the dwell numbers to estate/full sim mainland owners in the existing Estate tools; add a tab; “Dwell”.

    As for Search; Web based; Let GoogleSL.com take care of us.

    Spotlight? I’m still on the fence there.


  123. Cocoanut Koala says:

    The Showcase is having its own tab? For you to feature resident businesses of your own choosing?

    Don’t you think that is way too much meddling, like playing God even?

    If you are going to have such a Showcase, you could at least hold a lottery for the spots there, then discard any that didn’t meet the standards listed above. (Most would meet those standards.)

    Then we could all get EXCITED about it.

    This idea of picking out people to give them a special in-game tab, to funnel customers to their fashion shop instead of other fashion shops – well, I don’t think I have ever heard a worse idea.

    That is a rigged game if I ever heard of one.

    And very debilitating to business-owner morale.

    I object to it, and strongly.

    If you wanted to limit it to charitable or educational events, that would make more sense.


  124. Broccoli Curry says:

    Remove traffic completely, and the popular places list. Also remove traffic as a factor in search.

    Let people submit ‘good places’ and let a Linden check them out. If they are indeed good, unique or whatever then let them appear in a weekly list of ‘places to visit’ … if they’re laggy crappy boxy malls or clubs with nothing to offer except bots, then they’re ignored.

    Sure, there’ll be some FIC cries in it but surely it has to be better than success being measured by how many zombie bots you can run on your internet connection?

  125. Cat Cotton says:

    I just took second look at the Spotlight page. Huge flaw right off the bat; no category for residential living. Um hello.

  126. blameshifta says:

    I’m bemused to read some of these comments. LL is clearly trying to respond to longstanding complaints about the “spam-like” entries in “Popular Places.” Showcase is a great solution that will finally eliminate the b.s. of bots and other traffic manipulations. I’m sure some of those people complaining here are among the worst offenders. Why else would someone find fault over a simple fix that eliminates the “Welfare Island”-like entries that dominate the top 20? I’ll take Virtual Harlem and the Straylight sim (two current featured Showcase entries) over “HippiePay” anyday!

    I’ve been a fan of the Showcase feature since it quietly launched on the Web site earlier this year– it offers GREAT locations that are worth exploring. THANK YOU, LL for doing the right thing. These suggested hot spots may actually be the trick to convince new users that SL is actually a place for CREATIVITY, art and (yep) even commerce.

    My only hope is that LL is smart enough to keep the content fresh. I’m very curious about the “user submission” component hinted at — but I’m MORE than happy to have a HUMAN editor intervene to ensure quality listings if it means that the “Free Linden” and orgy entries will finally be relegated to more appropriate placement within the general Search results. I’m sure this will drive many of the worst offenders crazy — and I am literally giddy with the thought that GOOD builds will stand a shot at getting much-needed exposure to a wider audience. THANK YOU Linden Lab! Please don’t listen to the loud minority of chronic complainers on this one. You got it right on this move.

    Finally, a couple of people complained via their comments that LL has “no business” publishing suggested venues. How do you figure that? No one is FORCING you to click on the new Showcase tab, after all. Any technology company that wants to survive is going to make sure that the “best practices” and implementations are seen by its customer base — that’s just smart business. Maybe this will help to increase the infamous 10% retention rate that seems to be plaguing Second Life.

    While LL has been far from perfect in many of its endeavors, I think it is worth applauding their bold efforts to disempower those sites that employ bots and other lowest common denominator efforts to tweak their traffic numbers.

  127. Cat Cotton says:

    Spotlight; No thanks; I can see what it is already; all the corporate sims will be listed and a few resident projects sprinkled in to keep it “fair”. No thanks, tell your corporate clients to !@# me.

  128. katykiwi song says:

    The elimination of traffic is long overdue. Everyone but Linden Lab accepted this years ago. Concerning the Linden “cool picks” system, after all the problems that resulted from the old Linden picks system in all of its various incarnations, please, please don’t resurrect it. The result of having a cool places or top picks or whatever it has been or would be called this time around is only to pit member against member, create hard feelings and produce a Linden created list of their friends that never changes due to laziness, carelessness or plain old Linden indifference.


  129. Mazok Nishi says:

    YEHAHA … Thank you Linden 🙂

  130. U M says:

    Nice one Cat, true!!!!!!!!!!! Since they pay unreal amounts its makes sence they get all the traffic

  131. Happi Homewood says:

    Here’s my suggestion:

    For each parcel, count 1 for every avatar that visited during a 24-hour period, no matter how long, or how short the visit was. Then add up the visit count for the last 30 days, to ensure that less visited places also get a traffic number.

    Lessen the effect of traffic counts in ‘New Search’.

    That will get rid of camping bots, while still providing traffic stats for land owners.

    Yes, this too can be gamed, but not in a way that strain the servers as much as campers, and if the traffic isn’t important in the ‘New search’, more ppl will be less likely to game it.

    Don’t worry… be Happi 😉

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  133. Happi Homewood says:

    @125 Broccoli Curry:

    What do you, and others have against malls?

    I run a mall, and have done my best to make it look good, and also do what I can to make the experience for both tenants and visitors as pleasant as possible.

    I don’t see why malls should have a bad rep as a whole. Many ppl are in SL to sell the stuff they create, but don’t have the marketing skills. Malls, run by ppl with marketing skills, can be the place where those creators will have a chance to sell their products and also give their customers an LM to their main store.

    I’m confused, can anyone explain what is wrong with that?


    Don’t worry… be Happi 😉

  134. Naiman Broome says:

    Well I searched for “LL Traffic Future”in all category but it says it couldnt find any group named like that ……

  135. Nisa Maverick says:

    This is good news, but one thing I cannot find is the link to join this group LL Traffic Future its not there in search.

  136. Naiman Broome says:

    Btw another thing that KILLS GOOD ISLANDS is the tiers , becuse the owner has to make a big compromise between functionality of the land by renting most of it to pay for tiers and the beautyness of the spot , so most of the peopl just sacrfy the “view ” or the look of a place in favour to put many shops to be able to pay the rents …. Well I suggest that the LL makes a commission that reviews spots that when finds a place is well done , and a lot of work and caring was placed in the project to make it look beautifull wel then a tiers lowering wold be really helpfull , this would incentivvate people also to make more beautifull sims instead of really ugly places filled of renting boxes …..

    the way to this is to make a commission that reviews places time by time and has a set of categories like good very good and esceptional places , that could for example grant the owner fewer rents by 1/3 , 2/2 or free regardless of the fact that are beeing sold stuff , rented shops or beeing pure compercial place , what needs to be judged is the harmny beautyness and the work hours involved into constructiong it ….. the judgements have to be hard and strict so that not all can classify for tiers lowering but it can incentivate a lot and also help most beautifull sims to stay alive and not die becouse of missing funds ….. as I have seen many disappear for this reason , while other more ugly prosper becouse they just pointed on gain and trafic nstead than harmony and beautyness…..

    also big project after an owner made a very nice sim should be financially helped by lindenlab becouse this advantages them in publicity and us in beautyness of the spots ….

    I hope this makes sense for most people ….


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  138. Thinker says:

    Given traffic/bot/campers is “bums on seats” and this is gamed by people wanting more business then I suggest 2 systems:
    1. for commercial places – lindens spent in the last 7 days divided by average transaction
    2. for non commercial – simple traffic number – avatar minutes

    what da ya think?

  139. topmate says:

    With the changes already made to search and the expanded use of Mozilla in the client, it seems possible to kill a few birds with one stone by moving profiles entirely to the web.

    Blue sky thinking here and I’ve not fully thought through all the implications, but the benefits of this (as I currently see it) would be –

    1. Expanded used of already implemented Google search technology to replace the popular places/traffic. By moving profiles to completely web based, profiles could be expanded past their current picks limit and other features could be added, such as a “profile blog”, all of which could be spidered by the Google software. Google’s search technology is much more efficient at preventing being spammed or gamed than any other likely in-world solution that I can envision at present (though that might be a failure of my own imagination).

    See a new place you like in world? Add a pick, or use your “profile blog” to write a few things about it. Google already marks down keyword spamming for relevance, so parcel descriptions/picks information/blog information would have to become more useful.

    2. Profiles could be largely separated from the current database by moving to a web based solution, reducing the amount of calls on the asset server. The only part of the current profile which is related to “assets” is the classifieds tab and this could be worked around. Profiles would then be a simple http request to completely separate servers and databases. A lot easier (and cheaper) to set up LAMP servers than adding to the asset servers.

    3. Residents would be able to interact together more easily, because of accessing profiles through their standard (RL) browser. Replace “currently online” with “logged into profile” (another reduced hit on the asset server) and enable people to interact via their online profiles with chat widgets. People can then interact easily from different locations (work, cellphone etc) without impacting the asset server.

    4. Increasing use of SLurls (via Mozilla) because of web based profile picks using SLurls to identify locations will reduce map calls and again reduce hits to the asset servers.

    5. Profiles would become richer and more in-depth, valuable resources for both in-world and RL. It also wouldn’t hurt that these would also be accessible via search engines in their own right.

    6. Already mentioned but worth stating again, implementing the LAMP servers to run such a system would be cheaper in the long run than adding to the asset server, while at the same time significantly reducing load on the asset server and using a simple and reliable http protocol to get to the information.

    Potential problems? Again, off the top of my head, the classifieds tab and its impact on the asset server and concerns over adult content in profiles being accessible over the web.

    As I say, this was just blue sky thinking and if I’ve overlooked the blindingly obvious in my (limited) thinking on this so far as to why this couldn’t happen then my apologies for the long post. Same goes for if this is already something that is in the works.

    Have to admit though, at the moment this seems like a win-win situation to me.

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  141. Broccoli Curry says:

    #134 Happi… I have nothing ‘against malls’ per se, and I have to admit to having not visited yours knowingly, so please don’t think I’m having a go at you 🙂

    However, in my experience, the vast majority of malls and clubs are boxy, badly designed, badly laid out, horrendous pits of lag which have hidden bot alts racking up the traffic despite there being no actual customers – which not only cheats the tenants into thinking there are more visitors than there are, but also cheats visitors into thinking the place is more popular than it is.

    Not only are the malls and clubs themselves an issue, but anyone owning land in the region are often affected badly by the above issues.

    Then adding into that the fact that some deliberately go out of their way to grief the neighbours so they can buy land and expand cheaply… you can understand why many dislike them.

    I’ll take a trip to yours later today and I expect I’ll be pleasantly surprised – but sadly it’ll probably be one of the few exceptions to the rule.

    Too many people simply see SL as a cash cow, so rather than providing a quality service to people in order to shop in a pleasant environment, they just cram as many people in small boxes as they can to sell a few things (which often take ages to load anyway) and make a profit – hardly ever visiting the mall themselves, and letting autorenters deal with it all.

  142. derdepp schnabel says:

    unfortunately, every search system in web is based on a ranking, whatever it will count. it does affect in a important number the busines in sl.
    if traffic is canceled, how do you search products and decide to tp?
    by keywords?
    by advertising? i can imagine, a new goldrush-mood for adcompanies in sl….;)
    by a few people, they say what is good what is bad? a commission? by LL?
    …@137 naiman : give LL more time to fix the system but dont get them into
    taste and design police 😉

    unfortunately i think (becouse i am doing busines in sl), traffic is important
    but it have to change in the way of counting.
    many tools (scanner) can do it now….e.g.:
    1. count general traffic
    2. count different avatars a day (easy indicator of real traffic)
    3. count “click different objects” …(good for shops, galleries)

    and yes..i run bots, in case of group inviting and traffic. i would stop running
    bots immediately, if there where a working solution for the general search
    engine in sl.
    all the times, i stoped the bots, people does not find me, or gave up becouse
    of the keyword cheating in search.
    reduce keywords to 3 words, each 12 characters, then it might work 🙂

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  145. Jade Angkarn says:

    Am I one of the few who doesn’t want to completely abolish traffic? I run a club, not for profit in any way, so for me, the traffic number is very important as it’s an indicator of how “well” the club is doing… and I have never manipulated traffic in any way with bots or campers, so it’s all “real” info.

    Sure, I can install some sort of visitor counter, but it’s also useful to see the traffic figures of other venues… the competitive element is especially important when the “goal” doesn’t involve how much money one has made. Taking that away would then remove that motivational element of the game.

  146. T B says:

    If it gets rif of more bots, great, I had my email spambotted with about 3000 IMs from 1365 sims yesterday in 3 hours, bots are visiting 23 sims per minute

  147. Cat Cotton says:

    @146 As you may or may not realize 90% (and thats being conservative) of those your are checking your numbers against are gaming the system. So who is your competition really? The numbers are false for the most part and they do not represent the true numbers, I am not sure they ever did. I am sorry but you and I are in the minority when it comes to playing fair.


  148. U M says:

    Popular places?????????? You mean campers sitting for hours on end building traffic? Oh sure that 2008 version of how things just don`t work

  149. Chris says:

    It used to be that we got jobs for income in SL. I will admit that to some, camping IS a job. However, what does that exactly ‘give back’ to SL as a whole besides the abuse of people running 40 av’s for a pittance of the energy cost of running the PC’s? Provide a service, get paid. Think more about putting into SL instead of taking all you can OUT of SL.
    I’d also point out that camping does NOT aid the SL economy. Moving money that already exists doesn’t help pay for servers and platform requirements. A ‘no payment info on file’ member does nothing to help the infrastructure. Kudos to those who buy some L$ off the Lindex for use, you don’t need to be premium to help support the platform. Premium have more options to help, land tier primarily, but those who just buy some L$ off Lindex are also doing their part.
    Professional camping needs to go. Limit connections by IP. Let’s get more contribution from people and less take. Let’s give incentive for being creative in world instead of incentive for running several thin clients and going to watch tv. I like traffic as a metric, but not as it is abused. I look forward to the future changes and implementations as nearly anything beats what’s here now.

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