[DONE] Rolling Restart for 1.21 Server Deploy Wed/Thu/Fri

[Updated Saturday @ 09:10am] The rolling restart of the rest of the grid is now complete.

[Updated Friday @ 8:39am] The rolling restart to half of the grid is now complete but for 7 hosts that needed to be manually updated; those will be completed within a few minutes. The rest of the grid will be updated tomorrow morning.

[Updated Thursday @ 7:10pm] We are beginning have completed the deploy of 1.21 to 3 racks (632 regions). Here is a list of regions that as of now are on version

[Updated Thursday at 12:47pm] We will shortly be deploying have deployed 1.21 to 1 rack (about 170 regions) again. If all goes well, we will continue with the tenative timeline listed in the Wednesday at 8:10pm update below.

[Update Wednesday @ 9:15pm] A slight and subtle wrinkle during the deploy left some object-to-object emails non-functional. The responsible systems have gotten a stern talking to, and this service should be operational again.

[Update Wednesday @ 8:10pm] Another bug was found after we rolled out to one rack. That bug has been found and fixed. We will evaluate exactly what we’re going to do with this deploy after testing tomorrow, but it will likely shift the timeline forward by one day. Meanwhile, we are rolling back the 170 regions that had previously received a 1.21 deploy so that for all simulators are once again running on version 1.20.1 of the server code.

The central updates to 1.21 are complete and things seem “nominal” at the moment, but of course we’ll be watching closely.

  • Wednesday 4/23 @ 11am – deploy to 1 rack [DONE] [REVERTED]
  • Wednesday 4/23 – update central systems throughout the day [COMPLETE]
  • Thursday 4/23 @ 6pm – deploy to 3 racks [COMPLETE]
  • Friday 4/25 @ 5am-11am – deploy to half of remaining servers
  • Saturday 4/26 @ 5am-11am – deploy to remaining servers

[Update Wednesday @ 10:25am]

The bug in the 1.21 Server code identified last night during an initial rollout to 1 rack has been found, fixed, and verified. We’d planning to proceed with the rollout to avoid delaying the code update another week. On the table for today are the central services updates and limited rolling restarts.

What’s Changed in 1.21 Server

The most notable fixes will be physics-related, and have been in testing in the Beta Preview for several days. No new viewer is required.

Read on for more information…

More Details

A “rack” is a physical set of about 40 sim hosts, so about 160 regions, give or take spares. This is also a handy sized unit for initial rollouts. We’ve started doing restarts spread across several days to catch any configuration or scaling issues before they affect the whole service, and also because the service is now so large (10 times as many hosts as when I started, I believe) that we need to do it in pieces

During the central system updates we expect brief disruptions of some services (less than 2 minutes). For example, it may be necessary to re-join group chats, the reported “residents online” numbers may drop, and logins may not function briefly as the processes responsible for those services are stopped/started. These activities are partitioned by agent and group – for example, a particular resident may not be able to log in while one of the hosts is restarted, while other residents are able to log in. This usually takes less than a minute for each of 16 hosts.

1.21 Rollout History

The 1.21 Server deploy was initially scheduled for April 16th/17th. During the rollout, some problems were encountered which caused us to roll back, review the code, make some fixes, and proceed cautiously. In detail:

  • a component swap intended reduce the disruption caused by central updates exhibited poor performance in production; this was reverted in favor of a different architectural change already planned, but waiting for a future update
  • a data migration intended to alleviate database load during login and other actions turned out to have a subtle bug that required reversion; after further review, the updated code is going out in a multi-phase approach starting with 1.21.
  • during an initial “3-rack roll“, several services on the targeted hosts were not started correctly; further investigation could not determine if this was due to a momentary network glitch, database hiccup, problem with the deploy tools, or a problem with the code that was not caught during testing. Subsequent testing was unable to reproduce the problem. Since this is easily detected and recovered from, we’re proceeding cautiously. So far, no issues have been seen.

[Initial Post Details from April 22nd]

We’re ready to initiate the update of the Second Life servers to the 1.21 version of the code.

The deploy is going to happen in several phases:

  • Tuesday 4/22 @ 1pm – deploy to 1 rack – [DONE]
  • Tuesday 4/22 @ 5pm 7pm – deploy to 3 racks
    (delayed a bit due to a wrinkle discovered during the previous step)
  • Wednesday 4/23 @ 6am – deploy to 10 racks
  • Wednesday 4/23 – update central systems throughout the day
  • Thursday 4/24 @ 5am-11am – deploy to half of remaining servers
  • Friday 4/25 @ 5am-11am – deploy to remaining servers

Should problems be encountered with the 1.21 rollout, we will likely proceed with deploying a subset of the changes focused on physics-related fixes, as we did with last week’s 1.20 patch rollout.

[Update Tuesday April 22nd @ 7:55pm]

After an initial re-rollout to 1 rack, reports came in of attachment failures. The rack currently is being reverted to the previous (1.20.1) simulator version. After some quick tests, we believe we’ve narrowed down the changes responsible (tests for rez permission appear to be checking a remote parcel incorrectly), but a fix is unlikely until tomorrow at the soonest. The issue also affects the “backup plan” for a smaller patch deploy mentioned at the end of the post (which hints at the source of the bug).

[Sorry for making updates at both the top and bottom of this post; I want it to remain understandable for residents who are reading it for the first time, yet retain the history of the post for later comments to remain sensible. — Joshua Linden]

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151 Responses to [DONE] Rolling Restart for 1.21 Server Deploy Wed/Thu/Fri

  1. BlueWawll says:

    Great! Can’t wait to try it 🙂

  2. Penguinfan Beck says:

    Oh joy.. oh.. btw.. how about fixing the current problems of no tp/no profiles, etc?? That would be peachy 🙂

  3. Toad Mougin says:

    Thanks for the in-depth info – very much appreciated.

  4. Buckaroo Mu says:

    Please don’t feed the Trolls.

  5. Winter Ventura says:

    Uhm… Second Life is offline?

    Second Life Service Status
    Second Life Offline for Database Maintenance or Update

    In our continuing effort to improve your Second Life experience, we have taken Second Life temporarily offline for maintenance. This may also effect portions of our website. We are working to re-open our doors as quickly as possible and we appreciate your continued patience. For more details and further information on current system status, please visit our official blog at blog.secondlife.com.

  6. Taff Nouvelle says:

    Great blog entry about SL being offline.
    Unfortunately, its written in invisible ink.

  7. Kunarae Kutanaga says:

    Hey this sounds like some good fixes, so that explains why I couldn’t log in and it kept not responding on me. Hehe, silly me. Going to have to wait till it’s done.

  8. JayR Cela says:

    Wow! Joshua / really good post / excellent explanation of what is about to happen while all this goes on behind the scenes / Thank You :_)

    JayR Cela

  9. Argent Stonecutter says:

    Is the fix for SVC-1896 going to actually stop that stupid shouty diagnostic?

  10. Alf Lednev says:

    How about introducing performance based pay? SL works, the employees get paid? Always a subtle bug or a component not fully tested. Thats internal issues and more human based than hardware.

    Yes, its a large and complex network and yes problems will occur. Sadly they always occur which infers the Testing model is flawed and/or the left hand doesnt know what the right hand is doing.

    But its good start seeing Blogs on technical issues suddenly being open for comment now. Was there a memo sent around internally for such a policy change? Realisation that when competiton comes, lots of paying people will go? We all get sick of the “mushroom” syndrome.

    The NEXT big step will be to see some Lindens actually reply (hint: follow Sidewinder’s example.)

    Another good policy change would be to increase the stripend to try and keep paying customers from walking. It won’t hurt the SL economy, thats already in tatters from the constant daily crashing of much of SL. Useless things get fixed quickly, core customer items, after months, the problem still exists. So give the paying punters something, its not rocket science, indeed its simple marketing to keep the paying support base. Meaningless platitudes “like we thank you for patience” mean nothing when its a captive audience with no choice.

    To end: Torely kindly make a “happy video” for general users on how to file a JIRA complaint and a Sequel “How to follow your JIRA complaint up” and of course to complete the Trilogy, “What to do when your JIRA issue is ignored”. It should be a best seller. Keep it under 2 hours for each and have an interval to.

  11. Pingback: Second Life Italia Blog » Blog Archive » Interventi di manutenzione e aggiornamenti

  12. Emiley Tomsen says:

    Oh cool, so when I get online saturday. hopefully I will be able to use all of my inventory again, cause I miss getting to rez stuff, like products I used to be able to sell at my store. People say H4 doesnt affect asset server issues, but it seems like the asset server went nutz when they installed H4…. soooo maybe there is a connection?

  13. Stoo Straaf says:

    Well, I have a region still offline and has been offline for about an hour or more. Related to this deploy or not? I don’t know coz I can’t view the version number for an offline region…

  14. Masuyo Aabye says:

    havok 4 has nothing to do with the assest servers, it’s a physics system that runs only in the sim envrioment. it’s not connected to the asset servers in any way or form as it doesn’t fetch from the asset servers. again with its a physics system.. any of this registering?

  15. Emiley Tomsen says:

    @11 Alf Lednev’s post.

    I applaud that post so much, you speak so much common sense. And I fear the Lindens will not do what you say cause it makes too much sense, they always claim to take our feedback seriously, yet they always seem to do they’re own thing.

    *sighs and falls out of chair losing hope for SL to show its true potential*

  16. Stoo Straaf says:

    @15 I appreciate what you are saying, and accept its truth… BUT the simultaneous deploy of server 1.20 AND client 1.19.4 has clearly confused the two in the minds of many people. Not everyone is a techy geek, in fact probably the majority are not. Therefore people will always associate Havok4 with the degradation in performance that we are seeing here.

  17. JayR Cela says:

    @13 Blaming the Havok 4 server deploy is akin to……
    Blaming the fact that your automobile now is running poorly, because you forgot to fill the windshield washer reservoir with cleaning solvent.
    Give it a rest

    JayR Cela :_)

  18. Sean Heying says:

    Has anyone else noticed that since Katt started the blog posts have been all opened for comment and that generally that is calming the masses a little 😉

    Lots of good information in this post, slowly we piece together the technical details.

    Keep up the great work towards stabilising things 🙂

  19. Galdor Fackler says:

    “Therefore people will always associate Havok4 with the degradation in performance that we are seeing here.”

    Why do you think they call it Havok?

  20. Cat Cotton says:

    🙂 sounds thought out and rather quick. Good Luck


  21. Soo Novi says:

    Thanks for the well detailed update and pretty fair transparency about issues you experienced while trying the new stuff.

    Hopefully this will get us closer to some stability with the newer population numbers!

  22. Thomas Page says:

    Would be nice if somewhere at the end it said “we are working hard to improve Secondlife and thanks for your patience and understanding” seeing as these restarts are almost weekley these days and no noticable improvements in world.

  23. @10: Argent Stonecutter asks:

    “Is the fix for SVC-1896 going to actually stop that stupid shouty diagnostic?”

    Yes! I can’t swear we caught every instance, though. Send your thanks and requests for bears to the newly minted Infinity Linden. Still has that “new linden” smell.

    @11 Alf Lednev comments:

    “Always a subtle bug or a component not fully tested. Thats internal issues and more human based than hardware.”

    Just trying to be transparent here – you’re going to hear about problems that may not actually be seen by most residents. I agree that our testing is not ideal. We’re working on it.

    “Was there a memo sent around internally for such a policy change?”

    Nope. Personally, I’ve been too swamped lately to post, having to beg and plead for others on my team to do it while I run around crazily. Every Linden has a different mix of technical and communication skills. We don’t route everything through a single voice of communication, and I know most technical folks here wish they had more time to post.

    “The NEXT big step will be to see some Lindens actually reply (hint: follow Sidewinder’s example.)”

    Heh – Sidewinder has a bit of a luxury to be nearly 100% focused on a single project. I agree, he’s doing an awesome job. Now where did I leave that cloning machine…

  24. Leather Chaffe says:

    Test it again. Code updates tend to be unstable when LL rolls them out.

    Also, I thought rolling restarts were to be confined to one day a week not three days of the week. While the TOS allows LL to have unscheduled interruptions of service, just because you can doesn’t mean you should.

    With all the disruptions recently, minimal outages for updates should be the rule of thumb right now.

  25. Tyee Maximus says:

    I don’t know about the rest of second life, but in Withernook I can no longer wear clothes or attachments since the “upgrade.” I have to go to an adjacent region with the “old” simulator to put on clothes — including my hair. This happens on land I own, on land that my group owns, and on public (linden road) land. THIS SUX BIG TIME!!!

  26. Oran Stonewall says:

    OK now we are getting somewhere with the info,,Thank You LL.
    If it was me I might have taken more time between steps to see where the bugs would pop up and anybody who has deployed alot of severs knows there is always something. Good Luck and thanks for trying to keep us in the loop this time.

  27. Rocky Pickles says:

    @Joshua thank you for giving us a detailed report.. the jira links to specific issues are also very useful for folks who may not read the jira often 🙂

    Is this more or less the same build that was on the beta grid before it became unwell?

  28. Get on it please! says:

    Objects not rezzing, scripts not loading, come on get on it please.

  29. Galathir Darkstone says:

    I appreciate the report as much as anyone else, however, I am very displeased with the way step two of this process is being carried out. My region just restarted with zero warning. Some of us are actually trying to conduct business here, and I don’t think it would kill someone at LL to issue a warning to the regions about to be affected that they are going down in 5 minutes. Now I notice that those affected in step One got a Blog entry saying 184 regions would soon be affected… but I don’t know if those Sims received any notice before their restart either. This is really unacceptable. It stinks of LL just assuming that Restarts have become a common enough occurance that no forewarning is needed anymore… and that is a sad state of affairs. I certainly hope that this was a simple oversight, and not the new status quo ~ but I know for a fact this is the second time in under two weeks that my region has been restarted with Zero Notice, both times while my business was running events. Needless to say, I don’t apprecaite having all of my patrons & staff booted from SL, nor the sudden termination of our events without even a chance to redirect ahead of time.

  30. Aaron J. Freeman says:

    I’m curious which sims have been updated, so I can try them out. I saw some behaviour on the Beta Grid, which might even be worse than SVC-2141. Whether it’s better or worse would be a good thing, as narrowing down the cause. I’d like to try it under real-lag conditions.

    Maybe I should Jira for a Lag Simulator, in Beta Grid?

  31. Look harder says:

    @23 “Would be nice if somewhere at the end it said “we are working hard to improve Secondlife and thanks for your patience and understanding” seeing as these restarts are almost weekley these days and no noticable improvements in world. ”

    You’re not looking hard enough if you’re not seeing the improvements these folks are making.

  32. Thomas Page says:

    Look harder Says:
    April 22nd, 2008 at 7:54 PM

    @23 “Would be nice if somewhere at the end it said “we are working hard to improve Secondlife and thanks for your patience and understanding” seeing as these restarts are almost weekley these days and no noticable improvements in world. ”

    You’re not looking hard enough if you’re not seeing the improvements these folks are making.

    Oh I look every hard it is you that is missing the point!!!
    Is not always what you do but what you say!

  33. Tyee Maximus says:

    Thank you for your prompt response to my phone call and your roll back — all attachments happy in the old version now.

  34. You don’t beta test these first? lol

    That’s twice this one has messed up. Are your coders on three strikes and out? Should be…

  35. Luke Termagant says:

    Well, I do not understand those who thank SL for detailed info, amazing future changes, etc. Technical details are always welcomed although not as much as clear statement: “SL is off”. There is lot of us who have absolutelly no time to “decode” your messages. Next time go directly to the point, please. By the way three days off means significant loses for many business people around in here. It would be only fair at least not charge them proportional amount out of monthly fee. But it will never happen – or am I wrong?

  36. Wyald Woolley says:

    For God’s sake if you can’t finish a rollout by the middle of the week or thursday, don’t start them. If you get delayed, don’t soldier on into the weekend and then split for Sunday leaving an unstable disaster behind like the last time.

  37. Kahni says:

    Thank you for the well laid-out and explanation of what you’ll be doing.

    Communication like this really does show a bit of just how complicated things like this can be. Plus, I like being treated like I”m smart enough to grasp what’s going on instead of just being told “we’re banging n things”.

    Keep up the detailed explanations, checking ’em off as completed, and good luck with the roll-out.

  38. Sandor Balczo says:

    Sometimes I feel like a Guinea Pig….:)

    I am sorry to say that as of late i tend to log in less when a deploy is under way. As for losing touch with my friends in SL, well, that is independent of the technical problems. Some people, like in RL today, simply get bored and find new “toys” to play with. How sad!

  39. Happi Homewood says:

    Thanks for the info Joshua.

    Just curious…

    Does the new M have a license to thrill? 🙂

  40. Fredo Chaplin says:

    Once more, the roll back of the previous roll back !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Be serious Lindens………

    Or code a new full featured Pacman 😦

  41. Laraya says:

    Hi Josh,
    the positive thing is, that you tried on one rack first before rolling out to the whole grid, if I understood this correctly. As I see from fellow players, grid is or was offline anyway…
    But one thing is still not clear to me: Don’ t you have a so- called “sandbox- solution” in the Labs, where you can test in a sort of “isolated test- grid”, that new versions have correctly working facilities? Or are new server versions only simulated mathematically without such kind of testings, before rolled out? Don’t know whether this is a silly question.
    Good luck – Lara

  42. Happi Homewood says:

    @43 Laraya:

    I will take the liberty of answering for Josh:

    Yes, they do have a sandbox, that is the beta-grid, but since there are not many ppl using the beta-grid, some issues don’t show untill the code goes into the main-grid, with 60,000 users online.

    Testing software is generally a difficult task, SL is much more complicated than most software, so it’s an impossible job to test for everything before releasing new versions.

    Don’t worry… be Happi 😉

  43. Joachim says:

    @Joshua………….LMAO i just read your post……….and you hit the nail on hte head……..

    “Heh – Sidewinder has a bit of a luxury to be nearly 100% focused on a single project. I agree, he’s doing an awesome job. Now where did I leave that cloning machine…”

    Hmm shouldn’t it be so that people focus on one project and get that right first……….WORTH THINKING ABOUT I THINK 😉

    Basically in my opinion this is the root cause why sl is borked at the moment…………nobody is concentrating on one single thing, instead trying to deal with numerous problems at the same time………..you guys need some serious help with planning if you ask me.

    LOL…………and here we have a Linden openly saying they are doing to many things at once 🙂 Even though the proof of the pudding is in the eating……see H4 and sidewinder……..except for a few small things it works perfectly 🙂

    Lindens get real you can’t even see a solution when its staring you in the face 😉

  44. Joachim says:

    oops i forgot all the TM….bla bla trademark bits 🙂

  45. montanacorleone says:

    Yes, let’s keep the Havok 4 borks as they are: llTargetOmega, half your torso disappearing in walls and ceilings on collision, sliding doors not opening, the step height that means you can’t walk up lots of shop steps now, and go flying/falling at the top of stairs/stumbling over very low objects, sim crossings, weird vehicle behaviour etc etc. Bork free Havok ain’t, in fact causes me way more problems than the old Havok, and sim crashes affect me hardly ever, I doubt I’ve had one a month in all my time.

    And Windlimp, mmm, well apart from rushing out to buy a new computer (NOT) to see a blue sky instead of a grey sky, and fps falling from 20 to 0.4, and all the extra data added on to already loaded asset servers, plus the extra capabilities of Havok, taking up more data on, er, already borked and overloaded asset servers, combined with new server code, which also lets Mono on, more scripting capabilities which, er, pushes even more on the asset servers, oh, and change the client GUI too, do it all at once so you have no clue where to start looking for bugs, and you kinda have exactly the same mess we are in now. It cannot be coincidence that the grid started falling over big time as soon as these changes were put in for the un or insufficiently tested Havok and Windlimp.

    I mean, Sidewinder Linden himself admitted in his blog post, that he made the call to still release it all with big problems, so I wish the Windlimp and Havok fan boys would STFU on this. The Linden responsible has admitted it had flaws and made the call to release it anyway!!!!

    If M (Talk About Pop Music) Linden (there is a French Pop Singer called M, no ™ for you lol) is reading these, then for God’s sake read the year old Open Letter and fix what we have been asking for repeatedly to be fixed, and STOP all these ruddy unwanted shinies that just bork up the system even more. At least until you have a strong, stable, pretty much bug free system, with enough spare capacity to handle it. Then you might not see your active users and premiums evaporate away before your very eyes. Oh, and next time Phil wants to say we are all a bunch of poor rural stay at home pathetic nobodies, then maybe you can gag him, or give him a ruddy big pink slip from us all… Get with it Phil, more people buy laptops than desktops, mobility is the future, haven’t you heard that yet? Don’t have a mobile phone Phil? And they rather like WiFi. Except, we know it isn’t our kit or configuration, but borked and badly written code. That’s why every other update works, and every other one breaks it all again.

    @ 44 Yeah, well when Sidewinder went on about hundreds of hours of testing, and I said how could you when there were major borks like rotation, how were they not picked up, he admitted on this very blog they wrote it off as a small thing and pushed ahead anyway!!! It’s not difficult if you do it properly, have a proper system set up, know which code base you are adding your shinies too, and have a far better way of reporting things that the laughable JIRA. At the moment all they generally get is fan boys reporting, who are loath to criticise because they are the 1% geekoids, and so it’s not properly reported on. And the fault of that is on management, or rather the lack of any, and that is all at Phil’s feet.

    I mean, if that’s what happened at Real, look what happened to RealPlayer lmao.

  46. Cincia Singh says:

    @ all the flamers and whiners … Oh yes … flaming lindens like a pack of 2 yr olds in dirty diapers is really productive! Frankly I just want to say to keep up the work trying to push this code out … take as many half steps as you need to … making it better is likely going to be step-wise, not done in earth shaking leaps of imrpovement. Keep us informed please.

  47. kath McGill says:

    How about the fix for the 30 second crash due to something in the upgrade that the firewalls dont like? Not only cant I stay on line but when I went to install the next release for Dazzle etc it wont accept it and reverts back to a previous install.

    Oh, and while your at it, reports of Meeps and elevator/ transportor failure after the shift to havoc 4 upgrade on the islands. oddly, they work on the test regions of havoc 4, but not the old islands that were upgraded, and even when deploying new ones to replace the ones that did work but dont, they still dont.

    steps can only go so high!

    Really would be happy with back at version 11. that went well.

    Less foam, more steam!!
    thank you

  48. Enysy Mikita says:


    Personally, I am appreciating this post.

    Not trying to be antagonistic ok? But I think you see a lot of “it doesn’t work” posts here is that it doesn’t seem that so many issues are addressed when using the other avenues available.

    Now don’t get me wrong. I really DO appreciate the live chat system and I have had many resolutions to issues that way. Just today I talked to a live chat tech about TP failing and they were blaming my connection and / or the sim or sims I was on. Well, I had all greens in the indicators. I run over a spiffy fibre optic connection that is normally solid as a rock.

    It’s seems routing between certain sims were the issue as I could “bunny hop” through certain routs but not others. Interestingly enough, there seems there MAY be a link between this issue and the different versions of the simulator code they are each running. Maybe a connection there?? Interesting that from reading the blog here, I’m not the only one seeing the degradation in the TP functionality. Bottom line though, weather it’s the physics, the asset servers or the hamsters need feeding… I sure would like to be able to get around again 🙂

    Also, I’m in great hope that when hovering in the air, such as on Egill, the slow sinking back to the ground or nearest non phantom item will stop.

    Last but not least, since the last server code change, doors and prim detectors in Egill have begun to fail or act strangely. Some prim detectors have just stopped working. Doors have ceased responding unless I am online.

    Hoping for the best in the near future!


  49. cosa nostra says:


    first there has to be a common objective and a goal, a clear strategy determined by the management, then teams are created who will focus individually on dedicated areas and projects based on the team skills coupled to a clear deadline! Regular teamleader meetings must be held to discuss progress or bottlenecks ->the senior management is informed weekly, so they can steer or take action where needed.

    ->instead of posting then highlight and lowlights (warm & cold) on a daily basis, the management team should report on a weekly basis through KATT LINDEN the status of the objectives towards us users!It has no sense if one day sidewinder reports here, or joshua or anyone else … it has no value cause we dont see the big picture!

    teams must be challenged on a regular basis, to determine/evaluate there performance/progress in time! Steering of those groups is essential cause if one of those teams is gonna loose track or one of these teams are going to follow there own path —>it will go wrong !

    now after analyzing all the problems since weeks, I can conclude that a harder management approach will be necessary at lindenlabs! I still have the impression that lindenlabs employees act like volunteering charity workers than as professionals! but hey, lindenlabs is a company who wants to make profit like other businesses do!

    I know I am critizing a lot lately, but I run a company myself in rl and gave my 2 daughters (they are nicer in rl than in sl, dont think my daughters have cat ears or a tail in rl 😉 an island where I invested 7500 US$ in one year for there pleasure and fun! for some it is a lot of money, but as long if my kids enjoy it, I am happy with that! benefit is that thx to sl i can communicate with them from distance cause I work 97 % of my time abroad!

    but hearing my kids moaning and complaining more and more about the poor performance of sl, is making me as a dad and a professional going to the roof !

    Again I hope that the new CEO will take actions short and longterm!


  50. Vic says:

    “see H4 and sidewinder……..except for a few small things it works perfectly”

    “Few small things ?”
    like :
    – Hugs don’t work anymore,
    – Cars don’t work anymore, (money wasted, unless you just need cars to decorate your garden)…
    – Voice doesn’t work anymore… (but is has been decided that it was a “useless” feature, so… who cares ?)

    AND I am not a scripter nor a builder… I guess there would be much more to add to my list…

    “a few small things”….
    HA !

  51. Solomon Devoix says:


    This didn’t go well, that’s obvious, and I don’t think anyone is happy about that. There is a LOT to complain about with the way LL has handled things over the last year and especially the last month or two.

    But let’s also be honest about this: kudos and credit where credit is due!

    One thing that a great many have complained about (and rightly so) is communication and transparency, or the lack thereof, on LL’s side of things.

    Your post is a BIG step in the right direction, as is your replying!

    No, the deploy didn’t go well. Yes, you had to post hot/cold info on the same day.


    Bravo! Thank you! I am starting to have some tingles of hope about LL again in the last couple of days, and this blog posting of yours is one of those “tingles”.

    I just hope now the next time you make a nice detailed blog post, it’ll be with good news. 🙂

    [thumbs up]

  52. cosa nostra says:

    @50 myself …..

    update on last alinea

    but hearing my kids moaning and complaining more and more about the poor performance of sl (knowing that I pay 295 US$ for a service that should work) is making me as a dad and a professional going to the roof !


  53. DanielRavenNest Noe says:

    @15 Masuyo is incorrect that Havok 4 has no connection with the asset servers. Here is how it is connected:

    If Havok 4 is more efficient in running physics, that allows more time to do everything else. That everything else includes fetching stuff from the asset servers. Therefore the load on the asset servers increases.

    In an interconnected system like Second Life, *everything* affects *everything else*. That includes you players. I suspect when originally designed, SL assumed avatars might carry some tens of prims in attachments – boots and a sword for men, for example. Talented designers have created complex hair, jewelry, shoes, etc. so its not unusual to see someone with 1000 prims on their body, all of which has to be fetched from the asset database.

    So, if there is anything useful to suggest here, its when one item is changed, think through how that change will affect the other parts of this connected world.

    Prime example: Mono – it will drastically speed up how fast scripts run. OK, so what *else* will a sim be able to do with the extra time, and what loads will that put on the other parts of SL??

  54. sirhc DeSantis says:

    Joshua – thanks for the info. Curiously, as a techie, it gives me MORE confidence that you guys are making progress and do know what you are doing lol. Kudos. And to echo others – good job opening up the posts lately.

  55. Joachim says:

    @51….hmm Vic by a hug AO not a free one my friend……will work believe me……….not gonna list all the ones that work here 😉

    Hmm cars…….no idea about this one but i presume the same will apply……buy a car from a decent builder and it will work ……builders that care will have informed themselves over the changes caused by H4 and issued updates………those that didn’t well………..you have to ask youselves why not 😉

    Ok to the point…..all i was saying was joashua has openly admitted everything we residents have said for months…..they all are working on to many things at once………….that that doesn’t bring much in the way of results is bloody obvious 🙂

    and yes i build and can script Vic…..H4 does work…..there are known issues…………..but not as big as….transactions failing……tp up the swanny etc etc the list goes on………but once again…………THESE HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PHYSICS ENGINE H4 🙂

    But believe me Vic none of these have anything to do with H4……

  56. Sovery says:

    34 SecondLife – How To Make Money In Second Life » Rolling Restart for 1.21 Server Deploy Wed/Thu/Fri [DELAYED] Says:

    April 22nd, 2008 at 9:14 PM
    […] post by Joshua Linden […]

    Please excuse me but isnt this a conflict of accuracy?
    I know far too many vendors, builders and designers who are and have been loosing money hand over fist with these continual starts, errors, stoppages and what ever else you wish to call them.
    I may be over simplifying things be asking, “Wouldnt it be easier and possibly better to sort out the problems on existing versions instead of continually releasing these untested beta vesions? Let those who write the programmes be the testers and pay them on performance has as been suggested above then see how disgruntled your CUSTOMERS are Lindens.
    I was bought up to believe; “The customer was always right. The customer was the life blood of any organisation.” Probably worth keeping in mind that Happy satisfied customers (members) dont wander. (they dont have a reason to do they?)

    I just know I am only one who went to 3 different sims in one day and each was rebooted and then it took me almost 3 hours before I was able to get back in to SL after being kicked out.
    This is becoming most frequent as well as most inconvenient to many.
    AS I say, maybe I am over simplifying things.

  57. Vic says:

    I spent more than 50 000Linden$ on cars, who worked perfectly until H4. Having spent that much money for items that don’t work anymore, for me, is a transaction failure.

    I just don’t see the point in spoiling things that did work perfectly before H4.
    Who should I contact for an upgrade of Voice ? It is ruined. Who could fix it if not LL ? LOL

    “builders that care will have informed themselves over the changes caused by H4 and issued updates………those that didn’t well………..you have to ask youselves why not ”
    LL “built” Voice, and apparently don’t care about maintaining a good service of this feature.
    I am asking myself why not…

    You’re right…

    H4 is the biggest mistake ever.

    It is my point of view, anyways.

  58. Falcon Shilova says:

    I am just tired of part of my outfits not rezzing. I have 3 beautiful gowns I can’t wear, because the skirts won’t rez or attach. (Sob)

  59. Hewitt Huet says:

    Josh thanks for the reply, You’re so good about that.

    /me takes out HIS cloning machine and makes more Josh Lindens!

  60. Dorie Bernstein says:

    Yes, H4 killed some vehicles. That is not in dispute. But you might be interested in knowing why.

    H1 had bugs. Scripters created workarounds because of those bugs. Vehicles then could work nicely.

    H4 fixed H1’s bugs. Workarounds no longer are needed. The bugs don’t exist, after all. Vehicles with that sort of scripting broke.

    H4 FIXED bugs. That’s a good thing! The scripters who keep current with changes have created updates, fixes. THOSE are the people to be getting your products from. Don’t think that your freebies or those made by scripters no longer with us will be automatically fixed because you acquired them once upon a time.

    Just as a reminder, people purchase vehicles in meat-space…real-world, etc. And guess what? They don’t work forever. And they have to purchase new ones at some point. Did you really think that your SL car would last you forever?

  61. Luckey Barrs says:

    Thanks for the update. The improved communication and increased transparency is nice to see.

    I’m much happier with the way these updates are handled now compared to when I started SL. Seems that too many people have either forgotten or weren’t around when the grid used to be taken completely offline for updates and problems didn’t become apparent until it was switched back on. I shudder just thinking about it. LOL

    Keep up the good work. Cheers!

  62. Vivienne says:


    “Wouldnt it be easier and possibly better to sort out the problems on existing versions instead of continually releasing these untested beta vesions?”

    Valid point. Nine out of ten “aquired” people leave SL very soon and do NOT stick to it for more than a few hours. I would be interested in a survey there, what the reasons for 90 percent of visitors leaving it before starting it exactly are. But i am pretty sure that the fatal errors in the client software and the steady instability of the grid do have a lions share.

    Rosedale stated that SL users only have in common that “they have a lot of time”. Indeed, you must be extremely patient while dealing with all the preferences tweaking, crashing, rebooting, total system lock ups…the only way to avoid it is standing still somewhere enjoying the picture of the gorgeous windlight sunset on 5 fps. Well, i an have some nicer sunsets in RL without all the fuss.

  63. Captain Noarlunga says:

    Joshua….you are getting the idea…we love to hear whats happening and we appreciate it. PLEASE try to devote a few minutes to posting in the blogs….this really can make a difference. I am sure everyone knows that you guys and gals have a huge mess to fix and that it is tough getting all this negative stuff on the blogs….but understand it from this side of the fence…..all we see is problems….no one tells us that they even know what they are or how they hope to fix them. This leaves ppl with the thought that it may not be repairable …. and now anger has gone to apathy…… the next step will be EXODUS. This has to be stopped ……. you know it, we know it !

  64. For Randt says:

    I hate to think what all the ill-informed complainers would do if the Lindens suddenly decided to pull the plug and close their business. RL can be a very cold and unforgiving place….

  65. Roxanne Hynes says:

    Is the e-mail bug back again?
    All of our vendors are not functioning right now, only the ones in the same region as the server…. jesus…

  66. cosa nostra says:


    by the way, it is remarkable between the announcement from the new CEO yesterday and now, there havent been any new BLOG SUBJECTS added from LINDENLABS!

    this probably indicates that someone has read the reactions from most users and understood clearly that spreading HOT & COLD messages doesnt help LINDEN moving forward! Which ofcourse I can only encourage!

    I hope they use there energy with finding a clear solution finally for all the problems caused due to lost focus on the whole picture ! Regrouping on a battlefield can in many cases give result !

    Maybe the new CEO will be the start of a new beginning for the grid!

    mmhhhh I am getting positive 😉

  67. For Randt says:

    @66 Well said and well done. Wish all could ‘get positive’ and enjoy something (SL) that they might not otherwise have :o)

  68. Cappy Frantisek says:

    I enjoy SL® everyday, from the Real World or “Meat Life” as was coined by someone here. I get extreme pleasure reading about all the troubles in-world. I don’t get in-world much nymore as there is really nothing constructive you can do in SL anymore, it’s the biggest waste of time since the Republican Party was invented. Well that’s a subject for another post.

    On Topic:

    Server code can and should be implemented at any time of the week if it has an adequate staff trtacking the results.

  69. Darien Caldwell says:

    I’m glad to see this is back on schedule. The sooner all these changes are rolled out, the better. (assuming Intermezzio works out :S )

  70. No resting until all old is solved says:

    “13 Blaming the Havok 4 server deploy is akin to……
    Blaming the fact that your automobile now is running poorly, because you forgot to fill the windshield washer reservoir with cleaning solvent.
    Give it a rest

    JayR Cela :_)”

    Totally misunderstood I’m afraid. It’s not a question of filling the reservoir with solvent – It is a question of the manufacturer wanting to modify your new car with stuff you don’t really need, making it perform worse (i.e. engine trouble), and on top of that ignoring to fix the earlier engine troubles by carrying out further new looney modifications.

  71. Tyee Maximus says:

    Hurray! The issues I identified yesterday were addressed by LL and now my region starts in 1.21 and I can wear my hair and “other attachments.” Kudos for doing something right!

  72. Cocoanut Koala says:

    @61 I think it would be much better for business to go ahead and take SL offline to do things, unless there is some emergency. Rather than have everything always in a state of unpredictable flux, depending on region, etc.

    Never knowing what you are going to walk into is a much worse psychological paradigm than being able to know it’s working, or know it’s not.

    And then, too, you always knew if you got on right after an update, whatever was going wrong was likely due to that update.

    Now you don’t know if they did an update, a region-limited thing, or if it’s you, or what.

    And before, you knew if you didn’t want to bother with these changes, just don’t log on till some hours or even the next day after an update. Now it’s hard to tell what is causing your problems.


    Many thanks to whoever it was who decided to allow all blog commentary to remain open.


  73. Argus Collingwood says:

    Failed logins and unable to tp to Journey Rock Band Island.. hello, anybody out there?

  74. Masuyo Aabye says:

    it’s odd when LL do something right (ie testing server code correctly and refusing to deploy when bugs still pop up) the blog doesn’t fill up as fast, becuase all of the whingers can’t say anything bad,.
    i still like SL, can’t see me stopping liking it anytime soon.

  75. Moose Maine says:

    I’d have to agree with Cocoanut – take it down! Spinning our wheels trying to figure out if our viewer is screwed or sl is wacked, esp with no live status page to allow us to know what’s happening and when. Maybe KAT or the new CEO can start to talk to us, sooner than later..

  76. For Randt says:

    @70 To follow your argument would then beg the question, “Why would you want to keep and continue to drive such a car?” Not sure what your point is :o)

  77. Eric says:

    The Linden’s got a new boss so like any good employee’s they are going to let us know a lot more and tell the new CEO, oh yes, we been doing this all along. It’s the old suck up to the new boss and cover your ass routine and don’t tell the boss everything that’s going on. In any company, you always tell your boss everything is running great. It Keep’s him off your back while hopefully you fix it before he sees you really don’t have a clue what your doing. But, he will figure it out soon enough and him hopefully get this SL on the road to recovery. Hopefully this new CEO is a head chopper and will also get rid of some of the dead weight.

  78. Mallory says:

    Probably already said. But it seems that last night broke the object to object email. And when sat on a rotating prim you won’t rotate anymore… :S

  79. CeeCee Meriman says:

    So now that the script that was working on my house to let in only my household is broken. Apparently now anyone can open and close the door 😦 Does this mean I am screwed if the creator is no longer in SL? If this is going to keep happening with LL updates, ppl are going to stop buying as many scripted items bcz they are afraid they will be worthless in 90 days.

  80. For Randt says:

    @79 Let’s see, we went from Havok1 to Havok4. And this is something that happens every 90 days? Ha! Why do I bother….

  81. Chupacabra Decosta says:

    Remember to send sim warning before restart, please!

  82. Noisey Lane says:

    Great post Josh! Really helpful. And welcome to the new CEO.
    Here you will always receive a large glass of ‘whine’ for your efforts.
    @77 me thinks the ‘new guy’ probably has access to the internets and can see for himself the comments from resis – good and bad.
    I’m not happy I lost my much-loved customized AO (with 32 no-copy poses in it!!) 2 weeks ago due to a ‘data glitch’ but this will happen in any environment that is continually under development.
    Calling for a stop to new features and code is like trying to stop the future.
    The possibilities of virtual worlds are enormous but if you wish to live and trade at the sharp end of technology, there will be times when it all goes pear-shaped sometimes.
    We’ve come a long way but the journey isn’t over.
    Think of the stories we can tell our grandkids via holographic speed-of-light worlds in the future about the ‘early years’ of this emerging technology.

  83. I’m having attachment issues, failed tps, extremely slow rezzing on a sim with 3 people on it and so on. This is ridiculous.

  84. Vivienne says:

    “I hate to think what all the ill-informed complainers would do if the Lindens suddenly decided to pull the plug and close their business.”

    Why should they shut down as long as the complainers pay for their “cutting edge” service?

  85. For Randt says:

    @84 Indeed ;o)

  86. Cappy Frantisek says:


    You don’t shut down, you sell to the highest sucker, er, bidder.

  87. Vivienne says:


    Would YOU buy THIS? I won´t. I would hate meeting myself every other day on the blog.

  88. For Randt says:

    @87 Would YOU buy THIS? I won´t. I would hate meeting myself every other day on the blog.


  89. Vivienne says:

    well, my alt then, he he. complaining.

  90. For Randt says:

    I think I see what you’re saying. I’m actually quite impressed with the patience of the Lindens and how thoughtfully and diplomatically they respond to complaining. Tells me how much they love their ‘baby’ that they would want to continue to help it grow despite the slings and arrows :o)

  91. Vivienne says:


    “The possibilities of virtual worlds are enormous but if you wish to live and trade at the sharp end of technology, there will be times when it all goes pear-shaped sometimes.”

    Right, but this here is only “sharp end” if it comes to brilliant patching a patchworked software (they are word class in maintaining this patchwork under emergency conditions).
    And there surely will be times when the average world citizen will be able to use holographic images and all this. High End games are really “cutting edge”, but they can afford to be so, because they exclusively target the guys who spend an awful lot of money on the latest and greatest harware for killing some aliens, nazis or whomever in high quality environment in virtual real time. There obviously are enough of them to keep this kind of really “bleeding edge” virtual entertainment on the profitable side.

    SL is a completely different conception. It targets the average user on an average system. Therefore it cannot be “cutting edge” and it isn´t “cutting edge” if it comes to visual effects and the like. It has to serve completey different demands, as there are reliability, communications and the best possible visualisation on low end and midrange systems (educational and business platforms included).

    The conception itself is brilliant, the basic provided software is adequate and the sales department and advertisement staff adorable. It only lacks stability and in some cases a more careful release planning. But one thing for sure: The potential of this here is infinite.

    But…”bleeding edge” visuality would KILL Second Life. The userbase runs laptops and average systems, 2-5 years old. Its userbase is grown up and demands something else but a bunch of shiny features. The Windlight viewer fiasco only proved this.

  92. Vivienne says:

    @ 90

    “Tells me how much they love their ‘baby’ ”

    Sure they do. They are only human.

  93. Mojo Mathys says:

    if people are going to be allowed to post to these forums and blogs more than once then why limit the number of logs to 150? all it does is limit the number of really useful posts that could be here instead of all the pathetic whining!

    i read these bitch sessions all the time and am always amazed at how many times someone will post replies to other peoples posts in a form of offline debate!

    in fact I often wonder how people find the time to read and post to these things if they are actually in world experiencing the problems they claim to be having.

    I think the Lindens would do everyone a favor and make the information exchange that is supposed to be happening here more helpful and less juvenile if they would just set up a live chatroom for all the bitches and let the rest of the people post useful info here!

  94. For Randt says:

    I agree with you Vivienne, I think you’ve encapsulated very succincntly what the Lindens are trying to do. But I thought they’ve accommodated the average system to date by allowing people to turn off things like Windlight and otherwise tweak settings to allow those with older systems to run the core product. Eventually, of course, they can only do so much to keep the older systems as a common denominator. Any kind of software is always evolving and hardware necessarily is required to keep up, e.g., I could never expect to run much of today’s software on a Windows 95 machine.

  95. For Randt says:

    @93 And you’re post is useful why?

  96. All software is limited by what the best type of hardware out there is capable of Randt, not the other way around.

    Vi, I continue to say this: At current maximum settings (excluding draw distance) my 2660 machine can comfortably run up to three separate Second Life Clients (comfortable meaning some – but not fatal – lag). again, Second Life was not intended for use with a laptop either. In fact it was originally recommended that you use a desktop with Second Life and a hard line internet connection.

  97. Guru Dreamscape says:

    Well i just hope the full deployment goes as smoothly as is possible and that the progress anticipated with the upgrades begins the process of putting to bed the main database problems us as residents suffer, the stale requests, the down banks etc etc, it seems to be a time of change at LL, IBM and the new CEO could well get together and provide for us end users the 99.9% glitch free grid we all desire so much… who knows, only time and evolution will tell, but then i think of cause and effect…how certain things are tolerated in society for they provide jobs for others, thus are an important cog in the wheels that turn, how that reflects upon us in SL, and the RL Tech side…i mean…if SL was 99.9% free…then quite a few people would have to look for work elsewhere…as there would be nothing to do… For us we have to accept what reliablity they feel is sufficiant for us to keep our habit ticking over… Computers dont make mistakes…its the human codes that do, humans make mistakes…thus would it be safe to summise that what problems we suffer…are human based errors at the time of entry ?!! Good luck anyways… x

  98. Zachary says:

    The SL software is quite accomodating for a wide range of laptops and PC’s. I am able to run it on a quite basic laptop, on which it doesnt look great,but functions. On a cutting edge PC with high end graphics, a large widescreen and the graphics options set to ultra with all the bells and whistles, SL looks quite amazing. Its sometimes hard to remember that each of us is seeing something quite different, and that great bit of design which impresses us, might look like old garbage to someone with all the trimmings turned off.

  99. For Randt says:

    @96 Oh I agree Universal, that’s generally the way things go. I was just saying that SL tries it’s best to allow for older systems as other software developers try to do given the wide variety of machines out there so that they can work with as many systems as possible (a good business decision). Ideally, I’m sure they would LOVE to develop a software system that would keep pace with the cutting edge of hardware (and I think they try to do that within limits). It’s always been an ongoing dilemma to be able to take advantage of the state of the art in hardware versus trying to maintain the largest customer base as possible with the software. I’m running a 1 gig Vista machine with no real problem but would love to take advantage of what a better machine could do.

  100. Vivienne says:


    Yes, true, but a lifespan of 5-7 years maybe an eternity in the Gigahertz race, but not for the average user. PC sales are slowing down, anyway. Either people realised that there isn´t such an overwhelming difference between 2,4 or 8 cores, or the consumer money isn´t as fluid as it was for a while, however. So we should prepare for a longer lasting cycle, especially in online networks, which are pretty conservative by nature. And so should LL. I consider windlight being a failed compromise for some reasons, which was not really necessary at this time, with all the other stability issues on the board.

    Anyway, the harsh criticism here on the blog is justified partially, but it only can get so hurting and widespread, off topic, general and sometimes plain unbearable as it is because of a lack of communications. It is a sign of people getting alienated from the “cause”and from the ppl who work hard to provide them with their service, and this is really bad. I think the choice of the new CEO and his background is the best choice possible at the moment and i really hope that it helps and stop people in their anger from calling for the decaptivation of these “programmers”.

  101. For Randt says:

    @100 I like the way you think :o)

  102. Vivienne says:

    @ Universal

    And i can only repeat that neglecting almost 30 percent of all users worldwide by neglecting laptop limits is something high end game platforms can afford, but not Second Life.

  103. For Randt says:

    Damn Vivienne, I want to marry you! Okay, off post, I’ll admit it Mojo.

  104. Elvis Orbit says:

    Good Luck with this deploy. I hope it run smoothly today, and looking forward to the fixed included.

  105. I am looking forward to this release also as the physics fixes seem to work, as all of my objects (my region was transfered to the beta grid) that use ||Target Omega are now rotating properly. Keep up the great work LL; for without these upgrades (which many seem to despise; I know, I dislike it also when I lose about 1 month of sales as most of my merchandise rotates, but I deal with it 😉 ) nothing would get fixed. PURE and SIMPLE…

  106. Max says:

    llTargetOmega fixed?

  107. Renee Faulds says:

    good to see so much work being done on the asshat servers.

    Katt Linden – GREAT to re-hear from you your responses to the blog are very informative. Looking forward to next response to the people, not. M Linden you are not here yet but I expect the same smoke and fancy hat tricks that we have come to expect from Linden Labs. Leave them you can prob run for political office – Linden Labs will teach you soon enough to blow smoke to appease the masses. While your at your first order of business that Philip (whilst he enjoys his Europe Vacation) has not responded to my request that Linden Labs is responsible for my $54,000 mo/ld tier, borked borked borked you owe mr 2/3rd’s of a month tier dude. Glad you will be on top of that unlike Katt Linden who seems to be M.I.A.

    Renee Faulds

  108. Yami Katayama says:

    I certainly hope that this is the new policy for LL – very detailed and well communicated posts, leaving comments open rather leaving us feeling like we don’t have a voice.

    This is definitely a step forward.

  109. Tired says:

    Wouldn’t be fun to go to Renee’s work and give her some constructive criticism. =) just sayin….

    I digress, good luck with the roll out/roll back! =)

  110. iliveisl says:

    wow, i like the way you do the strikethrough on the list to show where you are at. i likes it. but like on the 3 rack deal, now many sims usually live in a rack? i have no concept of that but it must be a lot I imagine . . . good luck!

  111. Elvis Orbit says:

    @110 Read further down the blog article it tells you how many sims per rack. Anyways here is the quote from this blog:

    A “rack” is a physical set of about 40 sim hosts, so about 160 regions, give or take spares. This is also a handy sized unit for initial rollouts.

  112. Fellatione Aabye says:

    All that sounds good … except that … ONLY the best Lies … sounds the best … (Like the above post)

    If you wanna TP from Point A to Point B … well try it with waypoints a1-a2… a26 …. because straight Tp to your destination (Point B) is near to impossible ….

    And YES my drivers etc are up to date … and NO I wont be foolish to clear the cache … don t want to loose AGAIN valuable items of my inventory …..

  113. montanacorleone says:

    @83 “I’m not happy I lost my much-loved customized AO (with 32 no-copy poses in it!!) 2 weeks ago due to a ‘data glitch’ but this will happen in any environment that is continually under development.”

    Umm, that shouldn’t happen in ANY environment, that’s a pure database problem, unless of course you are testing a database you are writing. But if you’re happy with such incompetence, fine, most of us aren’t.

    “Calling for a stop to new features and code is like trying to stop the future.”

    If they don’t fix the busted core functionality, there won’t be any users nor any future, it’ll be dead.

    “The possibilities of virtual worlds are enormous but if you wish to live and trade at the sharp end of technology, there will be times when it all goes pear-shaped sometimes.”

    The possibilities are a lot less than people imagine, they always are. What’s for sure is they are always in a different direction to what people think they will be. Look at text messaging on mobile phones for example. Look at any old cutting or magazine and see what was predicted: electric cars, magnetic levitation trains, fusion power…

    “Think of the stories we can tell our grandkids via holographic speed-of-light worlds in the future about the ‘early years’ of this emerging technology.”

    Classic example, we’ve been waiting for holographic pics and videos and TV since before Star Wars came out, and that was what? 1977? lol

    At the rate it is going, the remembrances will much more likely “Oh yeah, there was this early attempt, Second Life. Boy did they get everything so wrong” lol. But they still left a mark with us you know kids. That’s where the word Lindened comes from: making things worse in an attempt to fix things.


  114. “It’s just like real life, but you can fly… 80% of Active Internet Users will have a ‘Second Life’ in the Virtual World by 2011. “
    — Gartner Research Press Release, April 24th 2007

    “It’s just unlike real life, people flew away… 80% of Active Internet Users tried a ‘Second Life’ in the Virtual World by 2011 and left disappointed. “
    — Montana Corleone, April 24th 2008


    Philip Rosedale started Linden Lab based on a belief that innovative success stems from self-directed creation, collaboration, and openness.

    Be nice if he started sharing some of that with the residents who imagine and create it…


  115. the best laugh ever.... says:

    @74 Masuyo Aabye
    “it’s odd when LL do something right (ie testing server code correctly and refusing to deploy when bugs still pop up) the blog doesn’t fill up as fast, becuase all of the whingers can’t say anything bad,.

    “LL refuse to deploy when bugs still pop up” ??????????????????


  116. GinaWild Bailey says:

    Will this new update fix the broken rotating scripts? It’s not funny when you have a meeting with rl businesspeople for who you want to build their location in sl and the rotating door is stuck. 😦

  117. Pepper Haas says:

    #93 Mojo: Now THAT was a bitchy post that wasted one blog spot here. I really wish that the Lindensuckups like you, would stop attacking paying customers here who voice legitimate complaints. Either contribute with solutions like so many do, or shut it.

  118. Let me put this into perspective for you Vi.

    If Linden Lab decided they were going to recode Second Life to run properly on a laptop, they would have to gut out a good deal of the code and remove a good deal of the features which make many Second Life businesses so successful.

    to be able to run on all laptops currently available without getting too many complaints from that user base – at first anyway – they would be required to return to late 90’s, early 2000 level 3D graphics.

    Before you attempt to refute that statement may I remind you that a laptop 3D graphics card is nothing more than a hollow shell of a PC card. They are not intended for use with anything but a light 3D game or a 3D modeler.

    Such a recode would destroy Second Life and all the businesses within. Who wants to look like a bunch of badly defined polygons …. Or buy such a thing from another user?

    Linden Lab (to my horror) wants to make Second Life as real looking as possible. To do this they are going to have to exclude someone at some point. Personally I’d rather they left it off right here and just fixed everything else … But they won’t.

  119. Pepper, the blog is not the place to ‘voice complaints’.

  120. Vivienne says:

    @ 118

    “Linden Lab (to my horror) wants to make Second Life as real looking as possible.”

    Yes, but they won´t eally do this, maybe in 10-20 yers, when mainstream technology is developed enough. They compromise, because of the limited computing capability their customer has available. This time then compromise failed, the Windlight stuff is awful by all means, it kills performance for the price of not balanced lighting, contrast, shading and color management. They would have been better off NOT to release it but wait for another year or even two, and then release something really nice.

    You are right, visual effects in SL ARE early 2002 cutting edge standard, and i think this should not change within the upcoming 12-24 months, because the userbase is not able or not willing to upgrade to anything more expensive than what they recently have. SL will always be “behind” the “cutting edge” because of its nature and the nature of its userbase, which is not really in it for outstanding visual effects.

    The laptop problem is of another kind, but the rapidly growing numbers of laptop users cannot be ignored. I think recent laptops are able to run SL to a certain degree (frankly spoken 1.18) without any problem, but 1.19.1 really excludes anything older than 1 to 3 years. Considering the fact, that the labtop boheme started exactly THEN, it is a very questionable business decision to ignore the changes in hardware sales by ignoring laptop limits, as LL did with the 1.19.1 release.

    Finally, the recent problems the so-called “release candidates” cause do not really encourage any investor to join in. Apart from questionable way of professional alpha and beta testing (letting consumers download premature software never was a good idea), it does not contribute to any kind of confidence in the professional attitude of LL. And IF something like this gets realeased in spite of any ratio, and IF there is a JIRA and bug reporting system, THEN it should be obvious that something is really happening there. But hundreds of issues are simply unassigned, ignored and not even responded when a release candidate gets finally released.

    All of this damages LL credibility, in fact. The serverside problems are way too big to allow any experiment on the client side, Additionally LL fails in communicating any strategy, any cause and their dedication to solve the problems (sidewinder is an excetion there).

  121. Actually Vi, the graphics are a little better than 2002 – not by much though. My point was that if Linden Lab were to recode Second Life to run without any problem at all on a laptop … They might as well simply sign Second Life’s death certificate and then shoot the servers to put them out of their misery.

    Until I see the day when a laptop 3D card can run each and every little feature that a normal PC card can – without taking those blasted shortcuts – my opinion concerning laptop use and Second Life will remain unchanged: You’re better off using a PC.

  122. Vivienne says:


    No doubt. It´s a pretty tough task to balance this. But if something is a tough task like this is, you cannot provoke or even afford any other problem. As i mentioned, imho the Windlight stuff was too early and too premature to be patched into a fragile patchwork as the SL viewer certainly is. And they really should reconsider the “RC” campaign and work on communications and OBVIOUS progress before releasing something not really working. That´s what i criticise, not their dedication or capabilties.

  123. I see. I can only speak for myself and those of my friends I know have voiced a similar opinion Vi. so far the Windlight system has been a boon. They originally signed up for Second Life service to use the client as a free 3D modeler.

    As to the RC – so far today I have only crashed out once.

  124. Christos Atlantis says:

    To posts 1-3 62, 19, 5, 23, 89 44, 9 & 113 really? to post 48-29-111-23-56-99-77-45-31-11-60-2-4, do sheep go bah? to posts 64920192837491283478900192837491209384701 seriously? to posts 02834975-28475028475802-75-1947572304875027-34075023749750275 @ LOL!

    To Joshua Linden, TY for the updates.

  125. Vivienne says:

    To post 124

    Wow! You read them all?

  126. No resting until all old is solved says:

    @76 Quote
    “For Randt Says:

    April 23rd, 2008 at 12:11 PM
    @70 To follow your argument would then beg the question, “Why would you want to keep and continue to drive such a car?” Not sure what your point is :o)”

    This question keeps thrilling me too, still no answer…
    Why do people want to continue with such an useless thing as that?

    Just wanted to compile my understanding of all the complaints I have been reading in this forum, and straighten out for those who haven’t seen it from this angle.

  127. Shens Mere says:

    I love to hear some news about Ip theft. it’s getting out of hand, lindens please help!

  128. comparing second Life to anything other than software is useless to the extreme.

    It is not an automobile, a house, a bank or anything else OTHER than software.

    Not even the servers running everything can be compared to such things as they are NOT anything close to them at all.

    Here is a thought … How about instead of trying to compare second Life to something it is not nor even close to in an effort to create excuses for such useless complaints, you actually do something that is even marginally constructive: Reporting Bugs comes to mind.

    Better yet – learn how to code and attack the problem yourself. It IS open source after all.

    For those that may say that the servers are not open source: True. Learn how to work with them and apply for a job with the Lab.

  129. Cappy Frantisek says:

    “For those that may say that the servers are not open source: True. Learn how to work with them and apply for a job with the Lab.”

    And move to the place that gas is the highest in U.S.? You must be joking, right?

  130. Do I sound like I am joking Cappy? Gas prices are a problem for you? Use a different mode of transportation or go to France long enough to pick up one of their compressed air cars – best mileage of any alternate fuel car out there.

  131. Madass Hell says:

    Crash Crash Crash
    How long must we sing this song . How long?

  132. cube republic says:

    Is there some problems , avatar movements have gone kinda weird,

  133. Kira says:

    I just want the restart on Pachylia sim , im up to my skirt attatchment in ghost prims here! so get to deploying! 😛

  134. cosa nostra says:

    “a day later in M his office”

    M ‘hi Joshua’
    Joshua ‘hi M’
    M ‘are u a monkey bridie ?’
    Joshua ‘why ?’
    M ‘because I said hi and you copied me by saying hi also’
    Joshua ‘oh sorry’
    M ‘u know that saying sorry is a sign of weakness’
    Joshua ‘really ?’
    M ’yes, so that means you are a weak monkey !’
    Joshua ‘*snif*’
    M ‘to the point now, what happened with the 1.21 DEPLOY ??’
    Joshua ‘oh, mmmhh, hehe’
    M ‘is that all you can say, or are u able to answer my question in a professional way ?????’
    Joshua ‘the deploy is not my fault M, THEY pushed me to launch this update’
    M ‘who is THEY ?’
    Joshua ‘the others’
    M ’so you are blaming the others ?’
    Birdie ‘yes & no’
    M ‘yes & no, %#@& are u taking drugs or something Joshua? just be factual, after checking the blog site, I see youre name on the blogheader, it doesnt say OTHERS’
    Joshua ‘euh hehe yes M’
    M ‘did you checked if the 1.21 DEPLOY was gonna work ?’
    Joshua ‘yes I tested it on my pentium II 5 minutes and I thought it would work’
    M ‘thinking is not enough, guess u understand that!, we are a professional business here ! think when ya are on holiday!!
    Joshua ‘I wanted to help LINDENLABS by launching it asap’
    M ‘listen, instead of helping, u just deployed an upgrade who affected 95% of our grid, where are customers paying REAL US$ for!, do you understand what I want to explain to you ? an upgrade who hasnt been even QA tested for days or even weeks is just the same as shooting in ya own feet ! also youre action is ego driving without consulting others teams, this indicates also that ya are a non-teamplayer and therefore a danger to work in this organization … right ?’
    Joshua ‘But M’
    M ‘NO buts here, I dont like excuses’
    Joshua ‘hehe’
    M ‘and stop laughing, u behave like a kid’
    Birdie ’sorry M’
    M ‘STOP SAYING SORRY !!!!!! %@&%’
    M ‘listen, I am gonna show ya how ya can deploy something very fast!’
    Joshua ‘really ?’
    M ‘yes’
    Joshua ‘U ARE FIREDDDDDDDD !!!!’
    Joshua ‘*omg ……snif* *snif* *snif*’

    to heal the pain a bit have some fun folks ;o)

  135. Vivienne says:

    @ Universal

    “For those that may say that the servers are not open source: True. Learn how to work with them and apply for a job with the Lab.”

    he he. So the new CEO clearly got it completely wrong.

    “I would call myself a very balanced general manager. While I don’t come from a technology background I’ve been working with technology for my entire career,” Kingdon said in a joint phone interview with Rosedale.”

    Learn coding first? Come on…


  136. Vivienne says:

    Hey, anyone else out there who lost the ability to fly in the new RC? Or is it related to the server code update?


  137. Tasrill Sieyes says:

    @ Universal “Better yet – learn how to code and attack the problem yourself. It IS open source after all.

    For those that may say that the servers are not open source: True. Learn how to work with them and apply for a job with the Lab.”

    That is a quite blatant straw man argument. Lets go with things that like sl won’t be the end of the world for most but can still be important. Let go with good old television. If you live in a apartment you may have your tv shows for free just like sl. How ever what if you don’t get those shows 10% of the time you are on and get bad reception alot of the rest of the time. You and all other tenets would complain. now you can complain to the land lord who pays for your tv (aka the 17k plus sims payed for by residents) but if it is out of his hands you and all other residents in the complex can also complain to the cable company. Now technically your rent says ‘free cable’ but in actuality by renting or using the building you are helping to pay the landlord for it.

    So not only does the landlord call the company to complain but so do all the tenets. No one expects the land lord or the tenets to go to learn signal processing, electrical wiring, satellite tracking and all the other things that go into getting cable form the tv station to the cable station to your house. Also no one tells you if you don’t like it then go work for the cable company. Even many times it is up to the cable company to come and check the setup in the complex to see what the problem is because after all the landlord does not have any special knowledge nor need any to rent a building.

    There are 17k sims that are all paid for by residents. Even if the TOS say ‘we are not responsible’ it isn’t iron clad. TOS are overturned and even parts of second life’s own TOS have been overturned. People have the right to complain and tell there problems even if they don’t know the technical side. You shouldn’t have to know more then ‘this doesn’t work’ to site a report or be expected to know more then that.

    After all the requirement to get on sl is to be able to download the program and put a date of birth 18 years before the day you registrars and no more. That is the bar of entry into sl and it is up to LL to learn how to handle people who aren’t tech savvy, who just think they can plug in there computer and play. After all this is supposed to be the next internet and even my grandmother can use firefox or internet explorer.

  138. Cappy Frantisek says:

    “Do I sound like I am joking Cappy?”

    Nope, but then put your money where your mouth is and do some coding for yourself. Even better, get a job at LL® yourself. Open source, in my opinion, is not a good way to get anything done. Ever hear, “Too many cooks spoil the soup.” Well it’s also true for coding of software.

  139. Zi Ree says:

    I disagree. There are a lot of great Open Source projects, like Linux, *BSD, Apache (web server, used by a huge number of pages), The Gimp and many more. It’s all a matter of good coordination and passionate coders.

  140. Vivienne says:

    Who says passionate coders are necessarily good coders? There always was a lot of open source crap out there, as well as there always was a lot of not open source crap out there, open source isn´t necessarily THE answer. And it certainly is not a solution for LL.

  141. Zi Ree says:

    I said, passionate coders AND good coordination. Those go hand in hand. A successful project has both. The coordination makes sure, only good code gets into the release.

    Open Source does not mean, everyone can simply add code. The releases are done by the core team, and they make sure, the patches are of good quality.

    I never said, it was THE answer, that was your invention 🙂

    For Linden Lab it is one possible solution, and the open source community (myself included) already has contributed a lot of code to the viewer and found bugs and security flaws by reading the sources.

  142. Ric Mollor says:

    Seeing how all this has drifted off topic quite a bit here’s yet another two cents from the peanut gallery.

    There’s a concept in society, perhaps ingrained in our nervous system itself, of ‘acceptable failure’. Generally, when humanity partakes of something, they expect a somewhat consistant reward. If, when eating a bunch of grapes, one finds that many are spoiled a reasonable response is to stop eating from that bunch and consider those grapes ‘bad’.

    Likewise, people expect products to work as advertised. We expect our phone calls to go through, our cars to commute safely, airline flights to end at the correct airport, and the lights to go on when we flip the switch at home. After all, that’s what we are paying for. That’s what was advertised. That’s what that product or service was designed to do.

    Of course, we can accept some failure as reasonable. Few people become upset when a mobile call drops while driving through a tunnel. We can understand that perhaps a few grapes in that bunch aren’t perfect. But too many problems and we shop somewhere else, try a different phone, or perhaps stop eating grapes altogether.

    So what does this have to do with Second Life? The failure rate of SL is FAR above the level of acceptable for most of society. Actually, the failure rate of Second Life may be the highest that its customers encounter during their day. Think of your average day. Are there any other services or products that routinely fail as often as the Second Life world?

    It doesn’t matter how ‘cutting edge’, difficult, or special Second Life is. Unless Linden Lab can hold their product up to the same standard of perfection as every other service out there they will always be considered as unreliable, incompetent, and unable to deliver quality.

    They are being compared to the world.

  143. Vivienne says:

    “The open source community (myself included) already has contributed a lot of code to the viewer and found bugs and security flaws by reading the sources”

    I do not doubt it. Nevertheless LL charges us for a sevice they simply do not deliver as advertised. Ric is absolutely right there. You do not charge anyone for your work, right? They run a business, Zi, but they could run it far better than they actually do. Btw., I still annot fly in the RC 1.20 (3) and crash on editing appearance. I´d be happy if you would look at the source and tell LL why.

  144. For Randt says:

    @142 I agree and am expanding on your thoughts with my 2 cents. Many folks think they have a right to good service or a right to expect a good product when they pay for something. A nice notion perhaps but with no basis in reality. No one has a ‘right’ to anything in the market place. Even the Romans recognized this early on and had a saying to describe that reality: caveat emptor.

  145. Zi Ree says:

    @143 Vivienne: Someone already did and found out, that turning off “Dynamic Textures” made the crash go away. This should be sufficient information for Linden Lab to find the bug and fix it.

    Here is the link (http : / / removed to work around the blog’s overeager spam filter):

  146. Vivienne says:

    @ 144

    “No one has a ‘right’ to anything in the market place.”

    Depends on where, False advertising can get damn expensive in Europe.

    @ 145

    Yeah, but making essential bugs like this one available to the public by a release candidate(!) is not a proof for quality.

  147. LailaK says:

    I say it only in jest, but doesn’t that schedule have you implementing “new code on a friday”?


  148. lider says:

    i dont know why but since yesterday i got disconected and now i just cant use my computer…everytime i try to log in it gives me a mesage sayn that secondlife canot be acess from this computer…have this hapend to anybody before? i log in just fine in my second computer but the main computer the one i use everyday witch is my best computer wont let me use SL anymore….how can i fix this problem?

  149. For Randt says:

    @146 Laws against false advertising have nothing to do with an individual’s supposed right to anything. They merely punish the law breaker for profiting by making false claims. And, in some cases (very few), the consumer may be compensated but the laws themselves are not created as a mechanism to confer any kind of right upon the individual to a expect a good product or good service. They are there to protect the consumer for not receiving the promised goods or services they paid for.

  150. Cappy Frantisek says:


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