[RESOLVED] – Group Payouts Delayed

[8:51 AM – RESOLVED] – The manual process has been completed and all group payouts have been run. – Matthew

[8:38 AM – Update] – Our engineering colleagues have identified the issue and are running the group payout process manually at the moment. It should be completed very soon and all groups will have paid out.

[8:17 AM – Update] – No further information on this at the moment.

We’ve been told by residents their nightly group distributions have not yet occurred. Upon further inspection we have found this may be true for other groups as well. We are investigating and will update when group distributions have completed or when we know when we can expect them to do so. -Chiyo

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72 Responses to [RESOLVED] – Group Payouts Delayed

  1. Renee Faulds says:

    Is there anything at Linden Labs that DOES work?

  2. Is there any blog entry you won’t make useless complaints on Renee?

  3. None says:

    When are paid accounts going to be compesated more for downtime. I’m a landowner and expect stuff to work. It never does! So how about a couple months of not charging us?!

  4. Twoony Loon says:

    #yes there is that little x in top right corner

  5. None, all linden Lab owes you is access to the grid – however badly the Grid is damaged at that time or not. You agreed to this when you signed up, downloaded the Client program and accepted the Terms of Service at your first log in.

  6. Waster S. says:

    when will there be a eventless day? when the grid crash&burns and cant be reopening in 24h?

    Cmon LL your loosing our faith. everyday theres ‘something’ wrong.

    If betting still whas allowed i would bet on asset failures this weekend.
    grid being nasty is just something you expect these days.

    yeah i wonder what does actualy still works as it should.. The coffee machiene?

  7. stripey says:

    I’ve begun thinking about the issues SL goes through the same way I think about the weather. I can’t control it, and there is not much use complaining. When the grid is down it’s equivalent to a bad snowstorm that shuts down the roads for a while. I know LL (the road crews of SL) will be out attempting to get the ways cleared for people to get back online.

  8. Sumiko Yokosuka says:

    The camera continues to drift in this version of the RC viewer, giving one the impression of being in a NASA shuttle simulator even when doing the simplest stuff.

    The regular viewer makes the avatar over rotate at times, but at least it doesn’t just keep drifting and rotating at random like with the RC. Really, you could get seasick with the way the camera is now in the RC.

    Btw, in case you all didn’t see it, the incoming CEO for SL says that his immediate priorities for it is to stabilize the grid and make things more scalable. I hope he delivers on that. I don’t want to see SL shedding creative people among its user base because it is they that enable me to have the fun I do here.

  9. Roxy L says:

    I don’t normally post on the Sl blogs, but I’m concerned about the frequency of your outages. I understand as a technologically innovative company that things will go wrong. You work at a fast pace and everything is constantly changing…that’s a given. I understand that.

    What again concerns me is the frequency that this is happening at. Perhaps changing the time frame as which you roll out new releases and maintainance windows to provide some stablity?

    We, and I speak on behalf of some, probably don’t understand all the ins and outs of SL, so I cannot comment on whether you are going down the right or wrong path…that would just be ignorant of me to assume that I know what happens in LL.

    Anyway, I’ll step off my soapbox. I do hope that you get SL running smoothly soon. I too have noticed a decline in ppl logging on to SL since the big shutdown several weeks ago. Even my patience is waning. Thanks

  10. SL FTW says:

    @1 – renee – Apparently the ban tool works, HAHAHAHA. Or is it broken and your back in game?

  11. JohnPhilip Allen says:

    This is an interesting quandry that SL puts upon us. They take our money and then they treat us like we are children playing a game. Think about people. This is a game. It is always going to be a game until technology has caught up with the concept of VR environments. Be proud of being involved in Second Life. In 50 years give or take a few, you will be part of history. This will be the start of VR process that similiar to Holodecks. Soon there will be VR addiction to deal with, etc, etc, etc. Lighten up. Relax. Enjoy yourselfs. If you are here in a serious mode, go elsewhere. SL is too new to be serious about on the user’s end.

  12. And I encourage folks to ask themselves before they post here ” what do I wanting to achieve with my blog entry”?

    The bottom line should always be to encourage the hard pressed folks of LL to be more dedicated to their job .

    Little is ever achieved from sticks and stones when carrots are an alternative. Griping will be more counter-product than anything else.

    By all means detail your on-topic problems here (and how it has made you feel – if you must ) but dont lose sight of how your post is going to achieve what you most desire.

  13. Cat Cotton says:

    I have no idea what the future now brings for SL given the new CEO’s and IBM’s involvement with LL. I do not know how they can justify the price reduction of islands after increasing the cost. Yet they leave the tier fees still higher. The initial cost is usually not a huge problem; convincing ppl to invest in ideas that pay for those tier fees can be a problem. Even more so when the grid is unstable. A lot of things at LL have always seemed backward to me. However I do not believe it is in their best interest to let their residents down. Nor do I believe that is their intention. I have to believe that some greater good will happen sooner than later. Even if SL becomes a full commercial 3d web; they still need to be able to sell their wares to someone besides other salesmen and women. It’s for that reason mainly; that I hold out some hope that things will turn around. I also hold out hope that more creative content creators will be recognized for their outstanding commitment and creativity that they bring to this new enviroment; and that SL will be finally recognized as the blank canvas for all who are interested in the possibilities of this 3d environment. Please stop singling each others ideas of what SL is; out. In then end it seems to me at least; we all need each other to help make our own goals a reality.

    Good Luck LL; I know this year has been rough so far.


  14. U M says:

    I just don`t know anymore. Everytime they try either to scale the game or fix old problems we always have even worse conditions. Now explain this to me. How is it that this game is getting all this paying ads with these issues running around? How long wil these companies stand for the unstable of the game and all the lacl of support?

    U sagi Musashi

  15. Gattz Gilman says:

    What we have today is much better then it was back in 2004. They had to close the entire grid for server updates, then once they bring it back up, everything would be gray and not load, and this would take a few days to pass.

    As much as it is frustrating the way the grid has been acting up, it is much better then it was years ago.

  16. Me Again says:

    Teleporting not available now……..

  17. Alvi Halderman says:

    everything goes wrong since Havok 4

  18. Wondering says:

    I smell plants (trying mixing up the prose)

  19. Ric Mollor says:

    Sooooo, exactly what happened last night? Was the massive failure really a griefer/DDOS attack?

    And if it was, is another one coming?

    Details please!

  20. HAPPY SATURDAY πŸ˜€ πŸ˜€ πŸ˜€

  21. MarkByron Falta says:

    @5, Your statement is an epic half-truth. The Second Life TOS includes billing policies that state in part, “You will be eligible to receive Service Credit toward recurring service fees (e.g. monthly account fees, 90 Day account fees, annual account fees, and Land Use Fees) for Unscheduled Downtime.” So those who pay for the service are owed more than just a damaged grid and LL does not need apologists who place their service standards bar at the lowest possible level. Certainly some customer complaints are over the top and common to to any business, but in the case of Linden Labs, I think most of the complaints and frustration with the service are valid, Irrespective, the TOS certainly doesn’t restrict people from making valid complaints, invalid complaints, or otherwise talking out of their posterior when it comes to expectations (or lack thereof in your case) for Second Life service standards.

  22. Traverse Janus says:

    1. Linden Labs wants to make SL the premier virtual environment.
    2. Such an environment would be very useful to business.
    3. Businesses, RL or SL, need to be able to count on their environment, and need it to be stable to some degree. The weather comment above #7 is apt, but how many businesses have left northern climates for warmer places, and how many businesses will locate their opertions center in New Orleans in the future?
    4. Its pretty obvious the last server update was not adequately tested, since the problems showed up in the first rack of installations. What is the beta grid for? I give them credit they tried it on one rack, instead of the whole grid. Maybe all new rollouts should start with the servers for Linden Labs and IBM?

  23. And when was the last time they made good on those payments Mark?

    Sorry but your quote from the Terms of Service means nothing at the present time.

    As for ‘apologists’ … There are a few level headed residents that have come to Second Life from other service providers – they know better than to expect anything except access to the Grid.

    in addition the Blog is NOT the place to voice complains. It never has been really. I’m frankly amazed that any Linden at all actually responds to such irksome and deluded users.

    Second Life is a never before tried version of current multi-server VW technology and as such any money paid into it is essentially an ‘investment’ into a technology that could – in theory – be yanked out from under each and every user at any time without any need for reimbursement.

    The sooner the general user base realizes and understands this, the better.

  24. Wondering says:



  25. Jephry Alter says:

    Ahhhhhh Whiners… The american way. Shields up LL!!!!

  26. U M says:

    Havok 4 is what everyone wanted. Sidewinder is the only decent person do these days. Problem is there are some on staff that shouldnt be to start with. With the degree of the size of the game now its nowonder why there are more and more problems. I wouldnt say the sky is falling. What we need is less interferance from some unproductive Lindens and more “MEAT” from those less the abiled Lindens. THis release client is ok, but if at this stage of its dev, its this bad..( please save its beta.its not beta it means its ALMOST ready for release)………We are in deep deep rabbit poo. We need a genie to get us through this AND FAST!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  27. U M says:

    Kids and calling people Whiners……….. You don`t know what real life is so please go back to your rah rah kissy kissy butt life on sl.

  28. Jephry Alter says:

    hahah UM I have a really great RL and a very successful business man.. Oh and thanks … 50 and i am called a kid Whooo hooo!!! Another words, Why stress…..LL is doing what they can and life is good. Hell I call my kids whiners when things don’t go their way. So U M I thank you LMAO

  29. Kimo Junot says:

    well to bad we are not such it alls and have it ALL together like #23 does LMAO

  30. MarkByron Falta says:

    @23, The blog guidelines don’t correlate with your statement about not voicing complaints. In fact, the guidelines states “Negative or contrary opinions are welcome as long as they don’t violate the common rules of netiquette.” If you think the TOS and guidelines don’t mean anything, than the service standards are a floating target set by Linden, and what can be posted on the blog is a matter of whatever Linden allows. What makes you or me the arbiters? But hey, the group payouts are resolved and now we can move on to the next problem πŸ™‚

  31. Keryth Qian says:

    I think that LL’s attempts to keep us notified of problems causes the whiners to feel they have to comment on every LL blog post.
    I hope LL continues to keep us notified…most online worlds/games never tell you anything willingly..people must get in line to ask a tech person what is going on, and complain to one another in the ‘lobby’ as you wait.
    A world can be down for days with no information being offered at all. Give LL credit for facing the problems and sharing their attempts to fix them with us.

    I have rolled with SL for 2 years, and will roll with it much longer.

    Universal Infinity..my kudos for pointing out the obvious truth…most people never read the TOS so they don’t understand they AGREED to everything LL does and what they control.

    ‘Whining is like a rocking chair, keeps you busy, but doesn’t really DO anything.’

  32. Berto Bass says:

    This must be said, listen:

    Yesterday the daily group dividend of my land-sales group was not paid out. Today it was not paid out too.
    So I went to the homepage/support/live chat. One minute later I was connected to Chiyo Linden. Ten minutes later the problem was discussed and i was told that payment should be done this night.

    One our later the issue was already in the blog and on the viewers login site.
    Another one hour later i already had all the money on my avatars account.
    Wonderful and perfect.
    I never could imagine, that a problem could be solved that fast.

    Of course there are problems and issues nearly every day, but i am sure, that it is absolutely not normal to react that fast and perfect. Once again: thank you!

    Berto Bass
    BBE Economics Group

  33. U M says:

    Must me nice not having a life and insulting others……Envy you not…..But remembers enjoy your sl thats why you here right? Or have you forgotten…………….sad if you have.

  34. U M says:

    and if you havent read it…………….[8:51 AM – RESOLVED] – The manual process has been completed and all group payouts have been run. – Matthew………

    Enjoy your Second Life………..I do

  35. Rhonda Nessen says:

    Ty for getting SL back up and running again πŸ˜‰ It seems once you do get something fixed you do not get enough ty’s or many people who appreciate it? Anyways, I appreciate your hard work to get things back up and going for the weekend! Crossing fingers they stay that way! My weekends are the only time I have long periods of time to spend on SL!!!!!

  36. Unhappy Owner says:

    Thinks we got us another LL brown noser on the blog, Welcome Universal Infinity,keep up the ass kissing your why nothing gets fixed!

  37. Paddy Wright says:

    Damn, I usually read the blogs and enjoy them, without feeling the need to comment….but @36…….

    Since when does showing support for Linden Lab automatically qualify one as a ‘brown noser’?

    I assume your comments suggest that if they hear an occasional encouraging word all the staff take the week off?

  38. The Todd says:

    U M, could you possibly get more off topic

  39. Lauren says:

    well it seems it breaks a whole heck of a lot these days on weekends. Maybe due to a load of people logging on at once? I understand technology takes time ,I am sure you will work it out LL. bites fingernails hoping

  40. Let me rephrase it so you can better understand then Mark: a complaint can be considered a polit and repectful objection to the current status quo. A complaint is not “OMG!!! SL is broke, fix it now or else!!!” or “give us our money now!”. Such comments do not belong anywhere on the Blog.

    Unhappy – guess what? Your comment is by far the one of the worst types of comment cited in my above response to Mark. Brown noser? Hardly. I am someone with a great deal more brain power rooted in the real world and its rather unpleasant nature than – so it appears at any rate – most of the users like yourself.

    Unlike most users I have actually taken the time to dig up as much as I can on second Life, Linden Lab and the manner in which the Grid is run. I actually feel SORRY for Linden Lab employees – they have to deal with people like you who have no idea whatsoever concerning anything beyond the log in screen! It makes me sick.

    Keryth – Thank you, at the least there is someone out there who is looking at reality and not looking for an excuse to attempt to keep living in their deluded fantasy world where Linden Lab must ask “How high?” when they say jump.

  41. Kenny Devoix says:

    @21 Mark,

    It does say that but you kinda forgot the last couple sentances in the paragraph if your looking for more then half truths. They are important as they define the meaning of unscheduled downtime.

    “Unscheduled Downtime” is an unplanned or unscheduled interruption in Service availability for a period of at least twenty-four (24) hours during which you are unable to access the Service. Unscheduled Downtime is measured from the end of the time the Service is 100% unreachable for a period of at least twenty-four (24) hours until Service is once again restored.

    I cant remember a time the grid was 100% unreachable for 24 hours since I joined.

  42. Linda Brynner says:

    Just too many things are going wrong…

  43. Cocoanut Koala says:

    I think it is quite reasonable to ask for money to be refunded for flawed service, and also reasonable to ask for it on the blog.


  44. Musimba says:

    Weekly stipends delayed.
    Group payouts delayed.
    Monthly charges right on time.

  45. lght bright says:

    well my monthly charge was about 5 days late….

  46. Tegg B says:

    Renee Faulds Says: “Is there anything at Linden Labs that DOES work?”
    Apparently not for you, so feel free to leave anytime πŸ˜›

  47. glow Raymaker says:

    Dont forget lucky chairs & camper payouts have been defaulting for about a week intermitently.
    And who doent like spending ages camping only to find the 130Ls arnt paid out!!! Or wating for your latter to finally show just so you dont get paid out on that either X(

  48. Well unfortunately Cocoa it is NOT reasonable to be asking or demanding a refund here on the Blog. Want one? Talk directly to someone in the Lab about getting one instead of cluttering up the Blog.

    As far as it being reasonable to bother asking for one? It is only reasonable if it fits the current criteria that Linden Lab set forth in their Terms of Service – If it were up to me you’d get no refund at all.

    This is not the local department store, nor your cable or electric company. this is a private company marketing a brand new variant of an existing technology. Any money you put into it you put in {hopefully} with the full understanding that this is an unstable and new adventure. It can and probably will collapse under you.

  49. glow Raymaker says:

    Oh and TOS has changed a lot since ive been in SL and after finally getting them to provide me with the Prem account i paid for a mth before and some weeks later bnackdateing on that last mths fee for no access ive been committed to a yr with the threat of no access unless i agree to sls whimisical TOS changes!

    When you typically sign a contract you expect it to stay the same for the term of that contract. SL thinks its a bank that can change its TOS at will knowing that you lose all service if you dont agree to their dictates.

  50. Cocoanut Koala says:

    I don’t “clutter up” the blog NEARLY as much as you do, Universal. You seem to think it’s your right to post more than once per blog entry, just whenever you, personally, happen to feel like saying something.

    Since you do consider that your right, I guess I’ll take up another slot to respond:

    I don’t want a just a refund for myself. I want the Lindens to do something to make it right by everyone, with tier and classified ad refunds.

    If I did want it just for myself, I would call. What I would like is something for everyone; hence the blog is the place to request that.

    You can disagree with that, of course, and doubtless will take up another slot to do so.

    And as long as we are discussing what is and is not appropriate to write about in the blog, I would like to stress that TAKING ISSUE WITH OTHER RESIDENTS’ POSTS is quite inappropriate in the blog. Let people say their opinion; say yours, and shut up. This isn’t the forums.

    Which is why I shouldn’t even be responding to you here.

    While it is interesting (though not surprising) to hear what you would do were it up to you, it is not up to you, thankfully. At least I hope you are not a Linden.

    And unlike you, I’m not expecting SL to collapse under me. Moreover, it is in LL’s best interest to provide compensation to their customers for these trying times of broken services lately.


  51. Rex Cronon says:

    Universal, as u post here so do others have the right to post too. Why don’t u stop bullying others? What gives u the right to attack those that don’t share your opinions?
    Why r u behaving like this?
    -Are u a linden?(unlikely. if u were i don’t think your boss would like it if u treat the customers like this)
    -A good friend of one?(possibly. do u really want to make problems for your friend?)
    -Are u paid by one?(i hope not)
    -Do u do this expecting something in return?(very likely. be careful don’t burn yourself)
    -Are u trolling?(another good possibility)

    If the blog is not for people to express their opinions, how come are u using it to express your own opinions about other comments?

    I do think that things might be a “little” stressed at LL, but if nobody ever complained about anything how would the lindens know how the grid is like?

    Don’t think there are better ways to support LL rather than showing such hostility towards others that have different reasons to complain on the blogs?

  52. I thought it was supposed to be wine with all this cheese, not “whine.” Silly me, I read it wrong the whole time…


    You all do realise that if none of us ever logged in, we’d not ever have any problems with SL, right? πŸ˜‰ hehe

  53. Rove Stromer says:

    More asset server issues. God I loved the weekends when SL (and LL) actually worked. 😦

  54. THE DMCA IS A LIE says:

    Linden labs doesnt gives a f*ck about content theft

  55. THE DMCA IS A LIE says:

    content creators dont waste time making great items to sell on secondlife.. when one gets stolen and you need a linden all of a sudden none can be found and they start ignoring you. The DMCA is a lie. Copyrights aren’t worth anything in Secondlife, they are just promo talk with no meaning.

    I go back to selling freebies, its a waste to release anything new in this copyright violation pile.

  56. U M says:

    I havent had many issues doing this time. It seems like its clearingup infact. No data basa errors here.

  57. frustman says:

    [Resolved] Database, asset server issues.
    Saturday, April 26th, 2008 at 2:15 PM by: Chiyo Linden
    [RESOLVED 10:00 PM PDT] These issues have been resolved. Thanks for your patience.

    So pls told me what ist this now ????
    [0:16] Asset server didn’t respond in a timely fashion. Object returned to sim.
    [0:17] Asset server didn’t respond in a timely fashion. Object returned to sim.
    [0:19] Asset server didn’t respond in a timely fashion. Object returned to sim.

    Great work Mr. Chiyo

    me answer: I’m downgrade from Premium to free Acc. now

  58. U M says:

    Oh well so much for longing in a crashing to ***** and back! GREAT! WORK! Ok Rah rah people do your best kiss kiss Pose :/

  59. No resting until all old is solved says:

    Universal Infinity @ 2, 5, 23, 40 and 48.
    One might suspect you are being paid by the Lindens to jump at the rest of u all, who are dissatisfied with the way LL/SL are performing and managing the service we are paying for.
    Maybe this is your way of taking out your frustration or the functionality – I am close to call this mass-flaming, beacuse the only thing you do is to try to put on more gasloine on a fire already burning. Can’t LL stop this man from attacking us normal disappointed citiziens of SL?

  60. Cocoa, unfortunately you seem to have mistaken my stating the facts of cold reality as opinion and ‘taking issue’ with another resident’s post or for that matter as ‘clutter’.

    Asking for a refund – here in the blog – IS clutter. It does not matter who is asking, nor for whom they are asking. Under the current criteria no one is eligible for such a thing. Unfortunate, but true.

    I do not expect Second Life to collapse under me Cocoa – I simply kep in mind the reality of Linden Lab and Second Life. This is not WoW, SWG, EverQuest, The Realm or any other game/service with an established and stable technology. This is something that is still looking for stability and that really could implode at any time.

    Rex: I said nothing about people being unable to or barred from voicing their opinions here. There is a fine line between a normal opinion or complaint and the kind of ridiculous whining that you would normally expect from a three year old.

    Many of the ‘complaints’ I have read and responded to are the latter. They consist of little more than someone throwing a tantrum and demanding over and over again to ‘fix it now’.

    My only motivation here is to make more people realize the cold and rather harsh reality outside their fantasy world. As I said before I am frankly disgusted and sickened at some of the so called complaints here.

    I understand and sympathize with some of the users issues, however you will never find me taking it out on an understaffed and often overworked company.

    I must ask you – do you honestly think many of the ‘complaints’ here on the Blog ever make it into a fix for the Client software or for that matter ever truly get actions taken on them at all?

    I see no proof to believe any are acted on at all.

    Resting: Kindly read the entirety of this comment. Much of what I would say to you I have already said with a few exceptions, seen below.

    1. The average dissatisfied user does not come on the blog to lodge a complaint. Only those with the deluded notion that their nagging (many people make the same exact comment in every post) will somehow make a difference comment on the blog.

    2. I am apparently one of the few voices of reason that comment on the blog and respond to people like you. If you call attempting to put reason back into a person’s mind ‘attacking’ them then I’d hate to see what HELPING them would be.

    3. My sole frustration is with the users that actually seem to think that Linden Lab can snap their fingers and fix the Grid instantly. They cannot do such a thing and to make matters worse they are so badly understaffed that they’d have to take the entire Grid off line for over a month to effect even a partial recode for stability.

    4. If you have the time, IM me in world sometime Resting. Maybe we can come to an understanding …. Hope you’re not rude or presumptuous in world.

  61. Ally says:

    so the group payment is fixed right ?
    ..dances around and prikles happy dust on the people of blog land

  62. Ally says:

    sprinkles even πŸ™‚ ;lol

  63. U M says:

    Don`t you know….there are alt of lindens posting on here and the rah rah bs as they say. Alone with the 3rd party builders that helps builds those comerical islands. ANd you wonder why they are rah rahing it up to the point its so fake? Those that have been around understands how and why sl is failing………Those that see the skys through rose colored glaaes are themselves lose inthe reality of lies. Frankly speaking i enjoy the game without the drama nd bs these days. But there are many that continue to look at SL as the grand fute without seeing the nightmares and depressing crap ll is doing to the users and the game.

  64. 666 says:

    “I am apparently one of the few voices of reason that comment on the blog”

    … can we call you “God” ?

    please, please…


  65. U M says:

    Just don`t get why people continue to believe things are getting better but instead they are getting worse. The blog trolls and people that continue to use them for their own person fun really needs to learn that we all should voice our own throughts without some low life no life blog trolls telling them they are whining. Then again the age group shows their posting they are not mature enough to post anything worse while. 4 years and we are stuck with a blog which at times is useless but only a tool for those that have no life and play stupid blog games.

  66. Renate Vrek says:

    don’t push dazzle on us. help the creators fight against content theft. it hurts the secondlife economy. people shouldn’t be forced to make item free, it should be peoples own choice, wether they make an item free. Not Linden Labs choice.

  67. Felicity Coronet says:

    Curious, I’ve seen reference to group payouts before. Haven’t been able to find out exactly what they are. Where can I find more on this or does someone want to share. Please don’t flame me about this. I’ll go sit quietly now.

  68. Quicktime says:

    To all SL users, be sure to update your virus protection and a run full system scans regularly. The Quick time program is loaded with viruses. Look out for a Downloader virus or Infostealer.Gamepass or the Keylogger virus.


    i agree with you coco we should get a refund if anything at least our classifies we have paid for for the past 6 weeks …they have refunded these before or actually extended them for us when there has ben troubles i believe that is the LEAST they should do for us at this point ….if nothing comes from this i’m selling out as well and downgrading to a freebie account Lindens have robbed businesses of so much the past 6 weeks taking our classified payments when 90% of the time they have been useless to use

    makes me sick that any business would do this to there customers….. i will definitely warn and pass on not to invest in this game…. it will hurt people here and it will hurt the investor but its is way to risky a place to try to run a business

    its time to go back to free accounts many free items there is no need to spend money here anymore

  70. U M says:

    QT shouldnt be on unless your useing it as needed. Keep it off until you know your going to use it. Its that simple.

  71. Coventina Dalgleish says:

    What a system I try and give you people a heads up on a billing problem so as to not lose a customer and it goes into moderation what a fine operation

  72. test says:


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