New Release Candidate Viewer: 1.20 RC4 Available

As mentioned in the update to my previous post, we found and fixed the cause of the crash on editing appearance (VWR-6792), and fixed a few other potential crashers as well. Second Life 1.20 RC4 has spent the day in QA and is now available for download from the test software page.

Reminder: Release Candidate viewers are optional updates that contain the latest round of bug fixes and/or soon-to-be-released new features. Please try the RC viewers only if you want to participate in the bug reporting process and identify issues before they become the default viewer. You can have both a Release Candidate and the primary viewer installed side by side on your computer, so if issues are encountered when testing the RC viewer you can switch back to the production viewer.

Fixes:

  • VWR-6286: changed the method LLControlGroup::loadFromFile to only load values of settings that are persistent
  • VWR-6792: Instant Crash on Editing Appearance
  • Fixed: Crash in LLFloaterIMPanel when starting conference
  • Fixed: Crash on LLVOVolume::sculpt – newview/llvovolume.cpp

Changes:

  • llLoadURL now opens web pages in external browser by default

Known issue:

  • On MacBook Air notebooks, only the High Terrain Texture ground texture displays. The other 3 Terrain Textures in the Region/Estate dialog’s Ground Textures tab do not display.

Please continue to report any new issues in the Issue Tracker and be sure to set “Affects Version/s” to “1.20 Release Candidate“.

Thanks for your patience and help in finding/fixing issues!

This entry was posted in Announcements & News, Bugs & Fixes, New Releases. Bookmark the permalink.

150 Responses to New Release Candidate Viewer: 1.20 RC4 Available

  1. WarKirby Magoijiro says:

    Has the black sea and broken glow on some cards been fixed yet?

    https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-6674

    The RC2 added this issue. RC0 and RC1 did NOT have it.

  2. Ener Hax says:

    keep up the good work! the viewer is getting better and better and this resident really appreciates all of your expertise, passion, and diligence 🙂

  3. BlueWall says:

    Wheee! RC3 was pretty good with a couple of exceptions. Hope the girls can fix their hair & stuff now w/o crashing, lol 🙂

  4. WarKirby Magoijiro says:

    No, it seems it hasn’t. The sea is still Pitch Black.

    When is the next RC triage Bridie? Please don’t let this become the main client without fixing the sea.

  5. New viewers everyday??? Don’t you Lindens test the viewer yourselves before releasing??? Everyone’s a damn beta tester for SL.

  6. TheBlack Box says:

    Please re-fix
    http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-2404
    again …. and again … and again …
    until it is really fixed.
    Maybe something went wrong with merging this fix ?

    And please pay attention to http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-5647

  7. Sean Heying says:

    Tounge in cheek comment:

    I see having a new CEO means you have already expanded your QA procedures a few thousands times and now test your releases for a whole day.

    Non tongue in cheek comment:

    Send it back to first look. This is not RC quality, it is feature incomplete and still undergoing changes. Therefor it is pre-alpha.

  8. Cummere MAyo says:

    @5 this IS a beta test veiwer hense its calle dthe Release Canidate. dont like it shut it. Cuase honestly, this program does soemtimes help prevent the worst of the bugs from making it to the mainline viewer. and it also DOES help figure out what will and what wont work in sl.

  9. Austin Welles says:

    Thanks for all your work, you keep trying and i will keep giving it a spin. When will some folks understand that this is not a required viewer. If it doesn’t work go to the main viewer. And yes this is a test Release Candidate

  10. Netgen Ninetails says:

    @5: “New viewers everyday??? Don’t you Lindens test the viewer yourselves before releasing??? Everyone’s a damn beta tester for SL.”

    That’s the *point*. These updates are for *beta* testers. You don’t have to use it. Did you miss the all-capital “RELEASE CANDIDATE” text on the download page and in the filename?

  11. Argent Stonecutter says:

    Netgen@10: I think the point he was making is that the term “release candidate” doesn’t normally mean “beta”, it means “we believe this is ready for release”.

  12. Jackson Mills says:

    .

  13. Tiny Mind says:

    Once more…. into the fire…

  14. NickCA Dittmann says:

    Keep at it coders … RC3 was a big improvement. Hopefully RC4 will be the same.

    Please don’t rush to release to production. Let’s get those bugs out together first … I’d be more than happy to be working with RC8 if that is what it takes for the general population to have a relatively bug-free experience.

  15. toric says:

    “We’re back to weekly Release Candidate releases.” Well Murphy got you good for saying that one =)

    Thanks for the super quick turnaround on those nasty crashies!

  16. Jackson Mills says:

    @5, Actually not ture. See here for more common definitions of typical phases in the software life cycle:

    wiki…

    “In this stage, the product features all designed functionalities and no known showstopper-class bugs.”

    You dont see UI changes in RC level products. What we have now is still beta or earlier level. However the good news is that it is more stable and no longer freezes my laptop.

    Jack

  17. richard says:

    oh no you arent going to sucker, me into this…no way !!!!!!

  18. Stitch Yoshikawa says:

    Guess what I dont crash anymore in edit appearance. I just stand there frozen unable to move. How the hell is that fixing the problem?

  19. Thank you very much for the fix on 1.20 RC3. The inability to directly edit avatar appearance without crashing out wasn’t necessarily a showstopper (not everyone futzes with it regularly), but it did severely hinder use of SL enough that anyone who created avatars with regularity had to fall back on the stable viewers…

    Looking better from what I see here. keep going.

  20. Thanks for the prompt fix for the appearance crash

  21. BlueWall says:

    Cool! After a spin around the block, seems to be a huge improvement over RC3! Turning on basic shaders still obscures the distance on the beacon when sailing. But, good job!

  22. Antonius Misfit says:

    I appreciate the crash fix, but I kinda liked that pop-up browser with llLoadURL. I’m hoping as I download RC4 that it’s still an option.

  23. Molly Montale says:

    Yaay, I am not crashing on launch as I was on 1.20 RC3, but I have the pitch black water.

  24. R. H. says:

    @18 Stitch…
    What are you talking about? There is NO viewer that you can move while in _Edit Appearance_ mode. You go into Edit Appearance to “edit your appearance” it’s not a mode for walking around in…
    Oh dang it!
    The troll got me!

    … but in case my assumption is wrong.. Stitch, try closing the edit appearance window and I bet you can move around again :-p

    R. H.

  25. Was there an improvement in the way the client renders? I seemed to have picked up 10-15 fps that wasnt there in the standard client and RC2 or RC3 variants. Additionally Advanced>Rendering>Info Displays>Avatar Rendering cost is an awesome and welcome addition that lets us see our own avatar’s render cost + other avatars.

    Can a Linden publically shed more light on this feature? This is a very useful thing. It seems to just weigh the number of prims attached * number of textures * resolution of textures. Can we hope for one that also weighs the efficiency of the attached scripts in an av and have it publically displayable?

    April’s been a really rough month, but things seem to be heading in the right direction.

  26. Cincia Singh says:

    This RC is useless to me until I can reliably wear a skirt … fix that, it’s not negotiable lol.

  27. Balpien Hammerer says:

    Flexis are still broken in this latest release. NO NEW FEATURES until that is fixed.

  28. Lulu Pink says:

    OK, for me RC0,1 and 2 werent usable, RC3 seemed to be i had none of the issues i had with the earlier ones yet (yellow boxes moving in edit around the prims, no lost and found showed up etc…)
    … wasnt too long able to test it though LOL.

    @1
    i had this “feature” of black water with ALL WL viewers from RC0 of 1.19.1 on. The reason wasnt the viewer but my graphics driver.
    i have nVidia 7600 and used the beta 174 driver… i rolled back to the nvidia beta 169.28 and water was blue again 🙂 (i havent tested the 169.44 yet, may do that later but the 169.28 seems fine for sl for me!)
    So it may not be a viewer but a graphics driver problem???

    Just one thing i dearly hope:
    PLEASE add a setting to revert to the default graphic interface of the old viewer, where i hope some smart guy or girl will anyway write a user interface to change these setting sometime soon, please do so programmers 😀

  29. Stitch Yoshikawa says:

    I did close the edit appearance. I was frozen with my head facing the wrong direction stuck not being able to go anywhere.

  30. rado says:

    Indicating the browser from help, in order for you to start the browser of your own PC, when it sets, the HTML information of WEB which it indicates in simultaneously with starting the browser is together indicated with the editor. Being to think that it is not normal, it does, this but.

  31. Simon Kline says:

    woot! i’m really glad you guys fixed the appearance bug.

    It was benificial to me tho, i now realise i have this bad habit of going into appearance after entering a sim, this bug soon got me out of that!

    I’ve found that my laugh gesture goes off at random times at the moment (esp when editing attachements, maybe i’m ticking my avatar) , i haven’t checked the jira to see if that’s a current issue but will add my bit when i can repro it better

    Good work guys 😀

  32. Ok what’s the point of bringing in the SL browser? Local & IM links can use the SL Browser but scripts using llLoadURL don’t use the SL browser. It should be one or the other! 1.19 SL Browser for all links then 1.20 SL Browser for only some of the links. Some people develop products due specifics how things work, this wishy wash decision making not only make their job harder it make it confusing for the end user.

  33. Xen Akula says:

    Still no fix for the log in at 768 meters bug.

    http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-6267

    It’s nice to be able to build up to 4096 meters in these latest rc’s. It would be even nicer if you weren’t at 768 meters and falling if you logged out anywhere above 768 meters.

  34. im still too scared from RC0 to try another version…

  35. Cummere MAyo says:

    @27 the skirt issue has been addressed. thats a connection issue. on YOUR end. as its been REPEATEDLY stated in the blog AND in world at the office hours.

  36. Bridie Linden says:

    @15

    It would seem that I did tempt fate! Thx for your help/patience with the RC viewers!

  37. Goddess says:

    the one thing id like fixed is being able to log in 2 avs without having to see wierd shapes.this happens everytime i log in 2 avs!!

  38. Cummere MAyo says:

    goddess thats cause using two avis is nto and never has been supported and its goign to tax both your sytem and your connection.

  39. rado says:

    When the built-in browser after the starting, the button which it can start with his own PC is clicked, (FireFox2.0.0.14) with the browser the editor starts the browser of the default of PC which I have used and indicates HTML information. As for me as for this you think that it is excessively desirable phenomenon.

  40. rado says:

    You can verify this phenomenon that it does from help of the tool bar,

  41. Your Conscience says:

    When will we be able to log in above 768m?

  42. maverickoffcourse says:

    the problem of memory size is still there. nobody, as i could notice, can save the texture memory size in graphics-hardware. i tried to do manually in the settings xml file, but everytime i restart the viewer it goes back to the default videocard dedicated memory size. Everyone seems to have the same issue..

  43. Xen Akula says:

    @ 42

    They’re apparently stil working on it. Vote for it here…

    http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-6267

    The more votes and maybe, MAYBE, it will get fixed faster.

  44. Tiny Mind says:

    Still getting random crashes with this release when simply moving or walking around. It is still problematic and has not been as stable as RC1 or RC2. Also “Show Look at” is still broken.

    TM

  45. Wow… ok. Guys.. 1.20.0 and 1.20 RC 1 would lock up up machine solid within minutes. I filed a JIRA report. 1.20 RC 2 FIXED THIS!!! Only very very rarely would it happen.

    Now with both RC3 and RC4, my computer locks up within 5 minutes of firing it up. I don’t mean SL crashes, I mean my computer locks up and needs hard cycled.

    Macbook pro (early 2008) 2.5 Ghz, Nvidia 8600GT M 512 meg.

    A little frustrating. Please put whatever fix you had in RC 2 back in.

  46. Ree Indigo says:

    It’s still ugly.

  47. Paulo Dielli says:

    Yeah I don’t like the Dazzle look either, but RC4 is way better dan RC3. No crash for me in Appearance and the psychedelic yellow border issue is gone too.

  48. JayR Cela says:

    @8 get your facts straight, software design progression is broken down into 3 basic levels / #1 Alpha stage / #2 Beta stage / #3 Release Candidate stage – The fact is you do not know what you are talking about on this particular issue. What the Lindens have chosen to refer to as RC’s is a misuse of the term Release Candidate. This are late Alpha – early Beta client software downloads at best, and should be listed as such. The problem seems to be that no one really bothers to goto the official Beta grid for testing purposes any longer, like the old day’s when there were only 20,000 or so SL customers. So LL has decided to put these unfinished pieces of code out and make them available to the general population
    I myself do not agree with this particular decision, but LL has always done what they want to anyway, no matter what the customer’s have to say.
    Until that attitude takes some sort of drastic turnaround, there will continue to be problems, that could have been easily avoided.
    We do however have a glimmer of hope :_) SideWinder, Prospero, Pastrami. Joshua, & more recently Which Linden, seem to have taken up the cause and are championing greater customer and LL team members involvement with future product development. Lets hope there stellar attitude and performance rubs off on the rest of the LL team
    @5 & @7 glad your calling em as you see em :_) your right on the money / these RC’s are definitely not ready for mass SL Avatar consumption !!! Period !!!!

    JayR Cela :_)

  49. FireFox Bancroft says:

    @ Everyone complaining: Reminder: Release Candidate viewers are optional updates that contain the latest round of bug fixes and/or soon-to-be-released new features. Please try the RC viewers only if you want to participate in the bug reporting process and identify issues before they become the default viewer. You can have both a Release Candidate and the primary viewer installed side by side on your computer, so if issues are encountered when testing the RC viewer you can switch back to the production viewer.

    Yeah I copy and pasted this in case you all just glossed over the post and smacked your heads on the comment button. 🙂

    Honestly if you don’t want to be “beta testers for LL” then DON’T DOWNLOAD THIS CLIENT (capitalized for emphasis so don’t accuse me of shouting). And remember folks, love with your heart, use your head for everything else.

  50. toric says:

    @36, Cummere: Yeah, the same skirt problem can apparently be duplicated with forced packet loss, but in the JIRA are several instances of people having this issue but showing zero loss in their stats. So, there is clearly some other problem still hiding in there.

  51. BlueBORG Potluck says:

    Second Life 1.20 RC4 has spent the day in QA and is now available for download I’ve always wondered what types of machines you folks are testing these updates on… my machine is 2 years old and seems to be way behind the standards your testing this bug ridden releaces on. you all need to take a few steps back and remember not all of us have a cash cow in the back yard to afford top of the line leading edge hardware as you folks have and can’t be updating everytime something new comes to the market. try running your test on some older machines like many of us have, release something that will work for the avagrage user not a hightech user cuz you know it will run for them with no problems.

    Also how about more responces back from you ppl thru the blogs it seems that you don’t bother reading a damn thing and compleatly ignore everyone, not saying you need to respond to every grip or complainte but least show your reading and addressing the real issues… anyhow i’m off to play winblows pinball.

  52. Darek Deluca says:

    When are you going to fix llTargetOmega! Half my sculptures don’t work!!

  53. Bridie Linden says:

    @4

    WarKirby-

    VWR-6674 is on our radar, but appears related to video card drivers. Do you have the latest drivers for your video card installed?

  54. Cris says:

    What did you change when Windlight (that worked great on my computer) went stable? Since then I can’t run any version (stable, or RC) without crashing before login…

    I have to use 1.19.0.

    :(((((((((

  55. Damona Rau says:

    @54
    Bridie, sometimes, better in the most cases the latest video drivers aren’t always the best. As example, the latest nvidia driver for 7,8 and 9 series is 169.21, but for 7er series the best driver is 163.75. I’ve tried several times the latest driver with different viewer version – i have had many problems. With the former, and stable, driver 163.75 i haven’t problems.

    This fits also for ATI cards. There are also many Threads in the SL-Form with the same message. You shouldn’t ignore this and call for the latest drivers. Call for the last stable driver, thats better.

  56. First of all I appreciate that you worked this out so fast and therefore i thank you.

    Seems the major bugs of yesterday are fixed.

    I kinda find the frame rate a bit slower as before, not too much but noticeable, maybe you can optimize that.

    Overall is feel very good!

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  58. Darek Deluca says:

    WWR-6402 PLEASE!

  59. Bridie Linden says:

    @56

    Good point, Damona, on recommending the latest *stable* video card drivers.

  60. Uccello Poultry says:

    Thanks for fixing the Insta-Crash upon Editing Appearance … though I did use it once as a “Feature” to get out of a … um .. situation. :::giggle:::

  61. Pragma Planer says:

    Do you guys hand out a free bottle of whine with every release ? Just keeps getting better 😉

  62. Bridie Linden says:

    @53

    A server-side fix is pending for SVC-1910 as part of the 1.21 deploy. See updates here:
    http://blog.secondlife.com/2008/04/24/rolling-restart-for-121-server-deploy-wedthufri/

  63. Cryptid says:

    So how many more daily updates should we expect? Seems each day I go to login I am having to update. Maybe you guys will eventually figure out what the problem is and get it right the first time or second…third…forth….fifth

  64. Missy Malaprop says:

    I cant change video drivers, cuz i’m on OSX… they need to fix the black water problem on the client side… haven’t checked this latest RC but i doubt its fixed if others are complaining… on a Macbook Pro original, Core Duo 2ghz with a Radeon x1600 256mb.

  65. Jessicka Graves says:

    Problems:
    -Still the horrendous client theme, blinding, I’ve had to turn my monitor brightness down to near nil, which destroys contrast and makes everything dark, just to play it.
    -Every bug that has been listed here, and will be listed after my post, that probably have not been address in months, if not years. (Like group chat errors, those have been existence since I started playing late two years ago on another file).

  66. Jan Horsforth says:

    How come my skirts are impossible to see?

  67. Laser Pascal says:

    For anyone having troubles with either the RC, the current edition 1.19.1.4, or windlight editions in general, may I recommend trying a third party client: Nicholaz Edition?

    I would post links to the versions here, but it seems the blog didn’t like when I tried to do that. There are three relevant versions:

    EC-e that runs atop 1.19.1.4 and has windlight support with memory leak fixes, BE-v that runs atop 1.18.5.3 and has voice support with memory leak and butt-attachment fixes, and OS-o that runs atop 1.18.0.? and is pre-voice.

    Just google for nicholaz edition with the proper version, and you’ll find it on a blogspot page. Follow the links to download the proper base version of SL, then install nicholaz on top of that, and run the executable. I’ve used all of them at one point or another, and they all work well (or at least better than the current client version), particularly on my low-spec computer. Good luck!

  68. Ree Indigo says:

    @50: SL itself still isn’t out of beta. Also, if you read the documentation surrounding it, they intend to make this ugly piece of crap the standard. If you don’t like the puky pearl blue, you need to be saying so, not “well it’s better than the last crap they threw at us”.

    I hate blue. I hate more that it’ll be surgery to change it.

  69. Ree Indigo says:

    IN FACT … I wouldn’t bitch about this release at all if they would simply give us the option to tint the UI to suit our tastes. How difficult is that, really?

  70. Darek Deluca says:

    Birdie;
    SVC-1910 is a server side bug. Physics related that was introduced by HAVOK4. WWR-6402 is a viewer bug introduced in the 1.20 release candidate. One is phyiscal llTargetOmega, the other is non-physical llTargetOmega. I know this because my stuff works if I view it in 1.19.1(4) veiwer. Are you saying a server side fix is going to fix a viewer bug only observable in the Release Candidate viewer?
    Which one of us is confused?

  71. Masuyo Aabye says:

    /me laughs at the people who complain about being beta testers whilst using this client.

    umm you do know this is a test viewer right? and by using it you’re helping contribute to LL getting it right before it hits primetime?

  72. Artfox Daviau says:

    A Thought:
    I been reading this blog ages now and notice RARELY does anyone give newcomers instructions on HOW to downgrade from the RC to the standard viewer, particularly when they were foolishly tempted to install it by some red edged notice on the login page.

    Suggestion:
    simply add a link to the standard viewer each time you add this:

    Reminder: Release Candidate viewers are optional updates that contain the latest round of bug fixes and/or soon-to-be-released new features. Please try the RC viewers only if you want to participate in the bug reporting process and identify issues before they become the default viewer. You can have both a Release Candidate and the primary viewer installed side by side on your computer, so if issues are encountered when testing the RC viewer you can switch back to the production viewer (…. Standard Viewer can be downladed here…..)

    On/Off topic:
    The standard viewer has been experiencing troubles too in past 3 days:
    .inventory loss (while moving object in-world, 3 residents lost all copies from inv)
    .Crashes at sim boundaries (while standing still typing)
    .Bouncing camera movements (in tight places like streets)

    These are new to me

  73. Christos Atlantis says:

    Some of the problems being mentioned here can be fixed by clearing your cache, I hope this helps a bit.

  74. Urantia Jewell says:

    @73 Artfox,

    The problems you mentioned are server related, not viewer. 🙂

  75. KerryJ says:

    I cannot install the new candidate- I’ve tried on 3 machines – 1 Vista Ultimate and 2 XP SP2 and all say the installer is corrupt. Darn!

  76. Wyald Woolley says:

    FireFox Bancroft Said: “…Honestly if you don’t want to be “beta testers for LL” then DON’T DOWNLOAD THIS (RC) CLIENT …”

    I run the Release Viewer which is the beta version of the viewer. The RC viewer is for alpha testers.

  77. Jan Horsforth says:

    Well, I had skirts until I loaded this viewer. I’m on a fast connection so I don’t think it has to do with that. I can manage but would like to have avoided traumatizing the Cleavers earlier today. I hope they enjoyed the show 🙂

  78. Hionimi Engawa says:

    I can confirm that when I had my ATI X1650 Pro 512MB, the 7.9 drivers worked fine, but the 7.10 drivers took away the ability to enable water ripples. (Luckily I have an 8800 GTX now…) But ye, new is not always better. Also, what I keep wondering, SL has been updated millions of times, but still many issues remain. And another thing, foot shdows still glitch…

  79. Vivienne says:

    It is really useless to practice apologism here, 1.19.1 (4) is FULL of nasty bugs, and everybody knows it. Just take a look ar the pJIRA. Why a so-called “Release Candidate” full of even more nasty bugs then, while the so-called “Final” Release is buggy enough?

    Sorry, I cannot see any logic here.

  80. Olaf Bosch says:

    ooOO – downloaded, installed, started and crashed ™

    NVIDIA® GEFORCE® 8600 GT – running Vista – on a Intel® Core™2 Quad Processor Q6600 – 3Gb system ram.

    I give up and wait for a RC that is able to at least send out crashlogs. Happy troubleshooting LabRats!

  81. Suzan says:

    At least it doesn’t freeze my whole system anymore, like RC 2 did. (With nvidia geforce go 7300).

    Unfortunately my first test with RC4 lasted only 2 minutes… viewer crashed with the second TP… :-(((

  82. Reggie Eames says:

    @36 If the skirt issue was on our end and not with the viewer; why is it that when I rolled back to the 1.19.0 (5) viewer, all my skirts (with the exception of one) came back just fine. And, I can now create skirts without them disappearing? Something I could not do in the new viewer.

  83. Midnite Rambler says:

    Will there ever be a fix for JIRA VWR-3258??

    This bug has been an issue for months now. It is a Showstopper for those affected as it means we cannot use Windlight clients at all.

    And no, the suggested work-around of turning VBO off does NOT fix it when you are then reduced to 1-5 FPS in an empty sim!

    Currently those affected are left either trying to do things in Windlight viewers with Preferences OPEN AT ALL TIMES so we can do a quick temporary adjustment every minute or so to get rid of the triangles.
    Or we are left using one of the 1.18 viewers such as Nicholaz, or OnRez. Which may or may not be supported for much longer. And when they are not effectively locks out all those affected by JIRA VWR-3258 from SL.

    Please can we get a fix on JIRA VWR-3258??

  84. Gil Druart says:

    @51 – yes that is a problem with the whole JIRA concept. You use the JIRA to describe a problem “I fall down the stairs a lot” ..maybe even offer a theory .. “I think the carpet may be loose” .. and then someone with more arrogance then common sense will log on and say “I can reliably repro this by tying my shoelaces together. Here are some slip-ons. Problem resolved.”
    Skirt loss is a failure mode, not a bug.

  85. Haruki Watanabe says:

    The new viewer is MUCH faster than the current one.

    Seems there are some mouse-issues on MAC PPC-based systems though. Right mouse-click doesn’t work reliable… (sometimes, it just doesn’t respond and if it does, all other right-clicks are ignored – happens when I try to attach something)…

    As for the UI… very candy-like but actually not THAT bad… I kinda liked the old one better, but I guess, that’s just because I’m used to it 🙂

  86. Actingill Igaly says:

    Dont like doing this but it seems unless I do nothings gonna happen with it.
    Scripters and all, please see: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-2133 and vote for it.
    Two weeks and its not even been looked at….

  87. Matthew Dowd says:

    A fix on JIRA VWR-6328 would be good too!

    There are too many things on the Tools menu for which it does not make sense to have to open the Build Dialog first e.g. the options for selecting prims (since you have to select before opening the Build Dialog), and the options for opening the Build Dialog (in its various diffent modes) itself!

    There are also a number of options on that menu where having to open the Build Dialog first is just an extra and unnecessary step in the workflow (i.e. the auto hiding of the Tools menu *adds* complexity to the content creation process).

  88. Matthew Dowd says:

    @87 – it may be worth sending Sidewinder an IM.

  89. Raven Primeau says:

    Are tools back on the bar yet???????????????????????????

  90. Vivienne says:

    @86

    “The new viewer is MUCH faster than the current one.”

    Right. Rendering is amazing fast on a PPC G5.

  91. Does anyone know the jira reference for this because it’s not just Macbook Air’s, my normal Macbook is doing it to. My sandy island is suddenly made of stone:

    > Known issue:

    > * On MacBook Air notebooks, only the High Terrain Texture ground texture displays. The other 3 Terrain Textures in the Region/Estate dialog’s Ground Textures tab do not display.

  92. Ann Otoole says:

    sculpties are rezzing properly with this rc. unlike the current production viewer that never seems to get the last tad of texture to enable a full precise resolution.

    thanks for moving so fast to correct such an obvious defect as the edit appearance crash.

    maybe LL should hire a crowd of unit/alpha testers to eval a rc before it is made public. I.e.; pay the resident testers to run through real test cases created by real residents that are relevant to the real SL that residents use and work in on a daily basis.

  93. THANK YOU!

    Certain bugs that were causing personal pain and suffering for me in the last RC are no longer there, so I am a happy little avi.

    /me dances happily and tosses flowers in the air

  94. Werner Jansma says:

    jeeeaaarrrr

    is better :-))

  95. Deli says:

    I am a bit puzzled by the “fix” for crashing. Frankly that is all I have done for the past 4 hours is log in, crash, log in..hang on…got it…crash. Tried turning everything down, etc. I shouldn’t have this much of a hard time hanging on.

    Vista Home Premium
    NVidia GeForce 8800GT (overclocked 512)
    Intel 2 Quad Q6600 Core
    3 gig ddr ram…

    What gives?

  96. Ayzo Akroyd says:

    My experience, the apearance mode are fixed, but still
    crash every 15 minutes, after froze a few times…
    Vista home premium
    Nvidia geforce 8600 gt 256mb
    3 gig Ram
    Intel Quad Q 6600

    Keep going, every RC version, it is a bit better, a few years, and there are no bugs more? :p

  97. Evangeline Biedermann says:

    Although i crashed on starting RC4 and had again a silent crash while afk for a while (happens ‘almost’ daily in All current viewers and is not depending on graphic settings..i tried high and low).. i’m generally happy and appreciate LL’s efforts to improve things..
    i wonder if anyone has the same issues with the system skirts ..i can see my long skirts..when i change to a short skirt..it flashes up..long..short and then vanishes..i’m not sure if this is just happening on my viewer or if i’m walking around half nekkid but it defies my logic

  98. glow Raymaker says:

    What version of english does it mean that you want us to use the new viewer, but you dont encourage us to use it by not providing an easy find link???
    i didnt think US english was really all that different to the others!!! But US also stands for Un-Serviceable.
    Or is this just computrer language for, you do all the work as we cant be bothered?

  99. M0lly Dench says:

    Well said, everyone, about the latest stable video drivers. I had those – but now, RC says that it doesn’t recognise my video card (you know the lovely message about how the latest hardware isn’t always recognised etc etc…) – I’m crashing more often…. but I’ve got the same card I had yesterday!! NVidia GEForces 8600GT, so well within the specs, stable drivers, help!!!! Also, bad_mem pointer still there. And, last but not least, my skirt is missing again (yes, I have rebaked.) I work in software testing, and I really do feel slightly miffed that we go backwards as much as we go forwards, in a release candidate version. I don’t mind testing it, I do mind regression testing it just to make sure the old bugs aren’t back.

  100. /me says:

    >Known issue:

    >On MacBook Air notebooks, only the High Terrain Texture ground >texture displays. The other 3 Terrain Textures in the Region/Estate >dialog’s Ground Textures tab do not display.

    The same on PC

    W2K, latest Driver and Intel Q965/Q963 Express Chipset Family

    Corrective: To set the Terraindetails to low.

  101. Zinbaco Kattun says:

    I had pitch black sea for the last upgrade which was fixed by upgrading to the most recent drivers. I do like this current version and when is coupled with the just about seamless sim crossings we see on the beta preview – yeah 🙂

  102. Nibb Tardis says:

    Thanks for admitting that RC3 didn’t even have a single day of testing.

    You guys are really scary !

  103. AWM Mars says:

    For those that keep shouting ‘shut up this is Beta Release’, perhaps you can explain why ALL the Clients act like beta?
    The ONLY thing you are seeing in advance is the bugs that will appear in the final release. The only real advance is that these ‘beta’ clients are not being forced upon us and occassionally we have a choice. No more, no less.

    There are far more things broken today, than have ever been broken before in the past… if you do not believe that statement, have a close look at the ‘Bug Metrics’ the ‘Fixes’ line is outpaced expotentially by the ‘Bugs’ line. Also consider that the ‘bugs’ are a lot of old bugs that have been reintroduced when ‘fixes’ have been applied.

    For my own sanity after 4 years of this, I’ll stick for as long as possible, with an old client that I can live with. 4 years of being a beta tester is way beyond the call of duty… especially when paying for that privilage. Basic platform stability should have been the 100% target for LL years ago.

    I get the impression that as long as it sort of works on the Beta grid (which they do not test clients), its good enough for release, if not, its cool, we will all work to file 1,000’s of bug reports on a continous basis. Beta Grid should be called Alpha Grid, as the Main Grid is Beta Grid in the vast majority of programmers eyes (outside of LL).

    Lets hope the new CEO has that on his agenda to make SL a commercially viable platform and not a continous beta programme.

    BTW, I have a very powerful and stable system, I do not suffer the majority of issues that a lot of people do.

  104. Moni Duettmann says:

    I was always a fan of the Release Candidates and FirstLook Viewers, but this one scares me away… crashes, bugs issues… A LOT!

  105. JayR Cela says:

    @93 Ann Otoole
    I agree with you, on………

    “”maybe LL should hire a crowd of unit/alpha testers to eval a rc before it is made public. I.e.; pay the resident testers to run through real test cases created by real residents that are relevant to the real SL that residents use and work in on a daily basis.””

    This issue was brought up at Which Lindens office hours Thursday, along with a few other others regarding the current state of these latest batch of ( what the Lindens are calling ) Release Candidates.
    These are by no means, nor should they be considered for RC status.

    It seems that this is the new way LL has decided to bug test, the in development stage viewer clients. I would think a more sensible and practical approach, could be, to interview interested residents that are willing to take a serious, methodical approach to running these clients through some everyday hands on usage, and pay them to do so. More and likely the majority of the money earned, would simply be put back into the local economy via purchase of in-world goods & services ( a sort of Stimulus Package for the Economy ) anyways.

    Anne?? perhaps you could attend Which Lindens : next meeting, Thursday(s) 11:00 am PDT : Beaumont 165,52,40

    JayR Cela :_)

  106. Trybil Timeless says:

    As with all the recent RC 1.20 releases, after a while (10-30 minutes), my viewer slows down and get jerky, with continual 5 second lockups followed by maybe 1 second of response. This of course makes SL unplayable, and even makes it difficult to exit.

    If this problem persists into release it will be the end of SL for me.

  107. Wanja Lubitsch says:

    I was so disappointed by RC3 that I considered not to test this one…
    but then it will go out as a final release which is even worse…

    One whole day in QA? You’re kidding? Does that mean it was laying one whole day on the hard disk in a directory named “QA” to ripe?

    Try that:
    1 Define a workpackage for a developer stating what s/he has to fix
    2 Have a different developer proofread the code for errors
    3 If ok, have a tester testing whether the bug was really fixed (in different conditions/environment)
    4 Include that fix and other fixes in a alpha version and have a test team test it for at least 2 days (1 week would be better)
    5 After the found problems where solved (repeat steps 1-3), test the beta for at least 2 days (1 week would be better).
    6 After you fixed the found problems (steps 1-3) you can come up with a new release candidate and let us test it.
    7 If no or easy problems were found, release it. If we found bad problems, repeat 1-3 for each problem and then got to 5 BEFORE you bother us with a new RC.

    Get rid of that stupid idea to make a new RC once a week! Test yourself first.

  108. Zaphod Beeblebrox says:

    RC 3 was crashing on me already on log in (!). That seems to be fixed now. Ground textures still don’t rez at all. No problem in RC2. I wonder what causes this issues. Please fix this, I’m walking on a moonesque surface everywhere I go 😦

  109. Bowfluv says:

    As a graphic designer the new viewer is just not that pretty…the light blue surround is distracting..way too bright ….Could this be a user pref..And what is this about new drivers, where, how, …Was there something in the release that I missed , , Bowfluv Curtiss

  110. RJ Thibaud says:

    Why, oh WHY, was the llLoadURL behavior changed?!?! I’ve looked everywhere I can think of to find an explanation, and there’s none I’ve found. it seem self-evidently stupid, so obviously I’m missing something. But let me register my very strongly felt opinion that SOME way of opening the inworld browser from a script is needed. Please, please fix this before you force 1.20 on the world. Make it work like 1.19 again? Please?

  111. Ooh for once it wasn’t me! Yay!

  112. Argent Stonecutter says:

    RJ@111: The in-world browser is pretty flakey. Best not make it the default yet.

  113. RJ Thibaud says:

    @113 But it already is the default for everything EXCEPT llLoadURL isnt’ it? In particular, if I click a link in chat or IM it loads my based on my preference, but llLoadURL always loads the system browser? Or am I smoking something?

  114. I love Second Life. I love Linden Labs. I’m just happy to be alive and be able to play in SL.

  115. Brenda Maculate says:

    STILL with the crashing before the login screen!

    I can overlook a lot of problems that I come across in-world, but THIS I simply CANNOT overlook…

  116. Macken Toshi says:

    Known issue:

    On MacBook Air notebooks, only the High Terrain Texture ground texture displays. The other 3 Terrain Textures in the Region/Estate dialog’s Ground Textures tab do not display.

    Also ‘still’ the case on older Macbook with Intel GMA 950 chipset.
    Ground texture shows correct for a narrow strip at Western edge of a sim anything East of this strip is high terrain texture only.

  117. Barbie Cheney says:

    Not sure if this has been asked yet. BUT, how the hell can we get rid of this skin (blue gray crap)? Ive not messed with this viewer as much because i don’t like the skin . Thx!! to anyone who can help.

  118. Suzi Ah says:

    RC4 seems very stable – sorry I’m absolutley not a techie but i do still see a ‘memory pointer’ error when i quit. Someone on another blog said the skirt issue was now resolved and was due to ‘client side packet loss – a connection error’ As i said I’m not a techie but I don’t think it is. I make clothes in world and all my skirts that used to rezz now don’t. I’ve tried it on my home and laptop computers, my laptop on a 3 g card, my laptop in a hotel and at my friends house on her desktop, differnt ISP’s in all cases – SAME RESULT – NO SYSTEM SKIRTS – I’ve tried literaly dozens of them, bought ones and made by me. Is anyone looking at this please? I’ve seen no Linden comments about it at all (I do read most of the blogs) and for me and several in world friends it’s causing a REAL problem! Has something changed in the way the viewer handles textures for instance? has somethig else been ‘fixed’ that has caused this error we’re seeing? If any Linden wants an SL demo of the problem I promise I can reproduce it every time 😦

    I know it may be a trivial thing in the great scheme of things but I’m concerened now that lots of us are reporting it and it’s being ignored.

    On the plus side thanx for fixing the appearance crash so quickly.

  119. Vivienne says:

    And I still cannot fly in the latest RC. No take off. Crap.

    PPC G5
    GeForce 7800 GT
    MacOs X 14.11

  120. Ai Austin says:

    Anyone testing two viewers up at the same time using the -multiple start up flag? I have had problems with all viewers since the 1.19.0 merged viewer releases with that. First up viewer with one avatar crashes after second one with another avatar is finished logging in. Using Nvidia Quadro FX 4500 (512MB memory) graphics card on Windows Vista system.

  121. Ai Austin says:

    Should have added.. used to work great with all the Windlight First Look Viewers. Problems started as soon as the merged viewer was released.

  122. Kristi Maurer says:

    I still want the fly button back where it belongs!

  123. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @73 Artfox: The camera bounce “in tight places” should be somewhat better wtih a simulator deploy (server update) that we are doing this week, and then improved some more with a future update – likely in a couple of weeks. Some of the camera control code is in the simulator… Regards, Sidewinder

  124. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @87 Actingill: I just saw your jira – hadn’t seen it before because it was only tagged as a scripting issue. Anything to do with linksets behavior is often phsics-related in some form. I’ll import that for the team to look at. Thanks, Sidewinder

  125. Wendy Forager says:

    Please get rid of that Dazzle, I have serious eyeproblems with that. And ppl with epileptic problems will get in lot of trouble with that colours also. Also the sea still black and some hugs and vehicles not working properly anymore. Got no problems before RC2 was introduced. The Windlight was good and all worked fine.

  126. Suzan says:

    At the first test, I crashed with the second TP.

    Now I tested the RC4 again, was 3 hours online without crash, though I TP’d very much. Editing appearance works again. And I the RC don’t crash my whole system anymore! (RC2 did that). Phew!

    Graphic look good, no problems so far, viewer seems a bit faster then the stable. Seems it goes in the right direction now.

    BTW: I like the dazzle look a lot, much more than the old dark one. It looks clean and modern. Only contrast when windows are lucent could be a bit better.

  127. I realize some people actually like Dazzle. Good for them. Could you please provide the option to return to the regular viewer also? At least give people a choice!

    Ty.

  128. Jackson Mills says:

    @126 Wendy Forager – Most of the Dazzle look can be removed with a skin update. It puts most back to the 1.19 look.

  129. The system skirt issue is a major problem. If the skirt texture has partial transparency, it seems to disappear more often, or if there is a great deal of lag in the region but this does *not* hold true in all situations. It just rezzes, then disappears. You can go into appearance, same thing happens. Rebake, same thing happens. Naturally this is both awkward and aggravating.

  130. Brenda Maculate says:

    I posted at 116, and I thought it would be a good idea to post the JIRA link that I think applies: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-6606

  131. Dark Princess says:

    For those of you having near instant crash when you log in and start rezzing, check your Nvidia Drivers
    When using Second Life on Windows XP Professional x32 edition, either RC 4 or the Main viewer,
    The 174.74 driver will work well with a 9800GTX or 9800GX2 but will crash an 8800GT every time, the 169.21 driver works well.
    (I was testing all 3 of the above menitoned video cards and found it was able to be reproduced each time)

    On a second note it seems the old flying off into endless space or walking off underwater when crossing sim lines bug is back, but as it affects both the Main Viewer and the RC 20.4 viewer, I am not sure if it is related to the new server side software or not.

  132. Vivienne says:

    I like the anti aliasing, which is GREAT (the nvidia anti-aliasing on the mac is crap). Camera options are nice, too. It is faster than the official viewer, but I still crash too much and the PageUp fly blocker really is annoying (anyone on a mac out there who has to hit “f” or the “fly” button in order to start/stop flying, while not automatically starting to fly with pressed PageUp?). The skin is a matter of taste, would be nice to have an option there.

    But it is not so bad at all!

  133. Sieben says:

    As far as crashing on object interaction like i did with the last update. It seems LL as fixed that. Thanks!. Now I can use Dazzle again for more than a few minutes heh. As for my Jira on rezzing objects out of objects that contain numerous other objects, and having it pop up the inventory window. This still seems to occur for me. It gets kind of annoying trying to rez an object from another object, seeing the inventory window pop. And most times gets in the way. The inventory window code just needs a check to ensure it was called by user interaction. And not by some run away fragment. Which a switch is more than sufficient for. Not a hard fix ^^.

  134. Kara Eagle says:

    I’m also experiencing black water, though my graphics card driver is updated to the latest version available. (Which probably came out over a year ago, they never have updates for my Nvidia GeForce Go 6200) If you turn the atmospheric shaders off, the water has color again (but of course it looks flat.) Why is the water black? I’m running the GeForce Go 6200 on a Toshiba Tecra M4 tablet PC.

  135. Hevenz Vansant says:

    Still an unusable viewer for me.

    Login, stand there and do nothing, within 5 minutes, my graphics start stuttering, then the eventual graphics display driver has stopped reesponding off of Nvidia 8600GT with latest drivers…

    just so you know:P

  136. Cael Merryman says:

    FWIW, I am and have been a beta tester for software since DOS. Guess what – generally the SL candidates are worse than beta testing. As a beta tester in an official sense, I have to go looking for problems (they generally don’t leave the bench with multiple new problems hitting you in the face) and there is a clear report-response process (plus I get the satisfaction of occasionally taking out the entire back office network and get to listen to the screams up and down the hallway).

    SL simply has no real direct way to report something with a clearly defined linked response on many issues, especially as there evidently is a tendency to link similar problems on the responding side augmented by a problem in clearly locating previously reported issues on the other. Anyone that thinks SL’s JIRA is well done has not worked with the real thing.

    On the problem side, I haven’t tested this RC much since the last one had a tremendous memory leak on my PCs with Vista (not so much so with XP) and an incredible yo-yo effect happening regularly with movement almost anywhere – a problem that has now apparently carried over into the regular viewer. What? This is a feature? (The feature is present on Vista and XP, on high end desktops, laptops and a Tablet PC – no, it isn’t a driver issue.)

    And the memory leak is the worst I’ve encountered since Novell servers in the 1990s and I’ve worked with a lot of networks and software since.

    And while the dynamics may or may not be more real world, what’s with the step up issue? I haven’t seen it mentioned anywhere (then I’m pretty much tired of this constant ongoing process to nowhere), but steps in popular places that used to be navigated with no problem now require a jump or fly – and I have a tall av. And its almost impossible to get a long view anymore. When you do, the next upgrade wipes out the settings. Yeah, I know about the files, but this is a part time hobby, not work. I’m not going into files everytime they tell me I have to upgrade at 4:00am. Its the small ‘improvements’ like this that I find the most annoying.

    This march to real world dynamics and lighting seems to be going with an oblivious view to the loss in playability. Sort of like an accounting package once that ‘improved’ things by removing a whole set of popular short cut keys in favor of a mouse approach. One client called me back to reinstall the old software version before I got back to the office…

    BTW, is it just me, or are the ‘voluntary’upgrades well outnumbered by the mandatory ones ever since they announced that almost all upgrades would be user choice? Thank god I’m on fiber and the updates take only a moment or I would be testier than I am now.

  137. Vivienne says:

    The horizon with atmospheric shaders disabled is weird, cause there is this grey banderole all around the place, which really makes it look ugly. Given the fact that at least 3/4 of all users will NOT use windlight because of the tremendous performance loss, it is a shame that the non-windlighted world now even looks worse then in 1.18. – not that the athmospheric shaders would add anything adorable apart from the nice skies and the nice water.

  138. Zi Ree says:

    Release candidates have always been mandatory updates *within* the RC channel. That’s because Linden Lab obviously doesn’t want to get bug reports of a Release Candidate which is 3 versions behind. RCs are optional updates for everyone using the main viewer.

  139. Zi Ree says:

    @138 Vivienne: Yay! It’s you 🙂 On my system the world looks exactly as it did before Windlight when I disable atmospheric shaders. And no, Windlight does not cause a performance hit for everyone. It might for you, for me it doesn’t 🙂

    It’s funny how you repeat the same claims over again in each and every blog post. And yes, it’s just as funny that I reply to them all the time to dispel your myths 🙂

  140. Vivienne says:

    Zi, stop the endless apologies. A Release Candidate is exactly what the phrase RELEASE CANDIDATE means. A software meant to be released SOON, mandatory or not mandatory does not matter here in ANY way. LL´s routine is that the release candidate becomes the final official release within a maximum of four to six weeks so this one should be thrown at us VERY soon.

    Imho THIS is FAR from being anything NEAR a final candidate. It is not even “First Look”, buggy and premature as it is. This is an advanced Alpha, not more or less.

    Don´t get me wrong, i am looking forward to the final version, i hardly can wait to get the anti-alisaing. But what is such a feature in an official release worth if there still are such a lot of nasty and unresolved bugs and problems in visuality that it gets unusable in the end?

  141. Vivienne says:

    “And no, Windlight does not cause a performance hit for everyone. It might for you, for me it doesn’t ”

    Right. If windlight would be mandatory, dear Zi, i bet 10,000 logged in would be the best LL could get. That´s why they did not make it mandatory. They are a bit more clever than their apologists on the blog, you know.

  142. Zi Ree says:

    @141, 142 Vivienne: I didn’t apologize for anything, and I never said, “Release Candidate” was a clever name. I stated, that RCs are not mandatory for the normal user, but only for the testers, who use RC voluntarily. I state facts, not opinions. If you want my opinion: The SL viewer is bad in terms of stability and maintenance. There you go 😉

    You are again making up numbers and using them as facts later 🙂 I don’t know how many people would “suffer” from a Windlight release. 10,000 is a purely arbitrary number you made up, and at the same time you use this number as a reason for Lindens not to ship Windlight 🙂

    Again, I state facts: I have four machines running Second Life, all of them complete different from each other. And each one of them shows either the same or better performance under Windlight. So I can safely say: For me, there is no visible performance hit with windlight.

  143. Vivienne says:

    I have three different machines suffering from performance loss, as well as about 50 friends in SL who simply avoid atmospheric shaders because of a unbearable performance loss. So, this is a matter of fact.

    If this stuff would be compatible with the systems of the userbase, LL surely would have not made this “ultra”. Huh?

  144. Alx says:

    I for once _like_ the Dazzle colors.

    The only things I wish for is:

    1: Higher contrast text for the title of minimized windows
    2: Bigger change for when an IM tab highlights (waiting message). I’d suggest making the title text for a highlighted tab another color compared to not highlighted tabs. Red, for instance. Or put a little symbol in front of the title of that tab, to make it clearer that it’s highlighted.

    Some of the skins on the wiki posted in a comment for the RC3 seems nice too.

    Does anyone know if any of the settings in colors.xml controls issue 2 above? Can I set the tab and title text color myself?

  145. Wanja Lubitsch says:

    Alx said:
    “put a little symbol in front of the title of that tab, to make it clearer that it’s highlighted.”

    It’s a bit like writing “highlighted” on a highlighted button, isn’t it? 😉

    “Does anyone know if any of the settings in colors.xml controls issue 2 above? Can I set the tab and title text color myself?”

    I don’t know. But it will be overwritten with the installation of the next RC, which could come up in the next 5 minutes…

    —————————————————-
    Zi Ree / Vivienne:
    Windlight viewers give me higher fps, better performance, and I read in these blogs that it does the same for other users.
    I also heard that some users have worse performance with windlight, so both could be right (and wrong)..
    Maybe it has nothing to do with the viewer but with the mood of the asset servers or the position of Mars in conclusion with Jupiter in da house… who knows.. Katt, what do you think? (Katt’s always listening, you must know 🙂 )

  146. miro beltran says:

    viewer update every day? this is unprofessional

  147. Vivienne says:

    @ Zi

    “On my system the world looks exactly as it did before Windlight when I disable atmospheric shaders.”

    See VWR-6875. There are screenshots. I doubt that a 7800 GT renders different from any other card.

  148. Vivienne says:

    “Windlight viewers give me higher fps, better performance, and I read in these blogs that it does the same for other users.”

    As soon as you alter the “custom” graphic preferences in the windlight viewer and enable “Atmospheric Shaders” you MUST have a noticable performance loss, if you do not run the latest and greatest of hardware (and even then there is a loss). Even if you do not notice it on higher end systems, your framerate on “high” and “ultra” should drop. Everything else would be a technical miracle. If you run a up-to-date high end system, you won´t NOTICE much difference. But who does? The average framerate in SL, according to the Linden statisrics, was 12-15 BEFORE windlight.

    And yes, as long as you do NOT enable Atmospheric Sjhaders, 1.20 is really FAST.

  149. Wanja Lubitsch says:

    “And yes, as long as you do NOT enable Atmospheric Sjhaders, 1.20 is really FAST.”

    I would be a fool to enable them then.. 😉

    Case Closed.

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