More on Trademarks

We want to address Resident concerns raised in the blogosphere. We know Residents have questions about our trademark policy, and we want to answer them. We’re responding to questions by email as quickly as we can. We also hope this post will help with questions and concerns. If you have others, please let us know by email to tm-questions@lindenlab.com.

1. Residents are worried that if they overlook a trademark issue somewhere, they might find themselves permanently banned from the Second Life world without warning. How will trademark issues be handled?

Residents should not worry about being banned without warning. If we have a trademark issue, we’ll just get in touch about changes that need to be made. Once the changes are made, the problem will be solved. For trademark issues, banning would be a last resort. We’d issue multiple warnings beforehand, and even afterwards, Residents would have an opportunity to request reversal of the ban by sending us a written appeal.

2. Some Residents are concerned about how to discuss Second Life. Residents worry that the trademark policy restricts their speech and want to know if it’s consistent with “nominative fair use.” How can Residents refer to Second Life?

Residents certainly can discuss Second Life and call it by its name. Our policy has specific guidelines here for referring to Second Life in a way that’s consistent with nominative fair use. There has been some confusion about trademark notice symbols (like ® or ™) and about following trademarks with nouns.

When referring to a trademark in writing, it should be set apart from surrounding text in a way that indicates that it’s a trademark. This is part of nominative fair use. Our policy provides a typical way to distinguish our trademarks from surrounding text. The first or most prominent reference should be followed with the correct trademark symbol (® or ™) and an appropriate noun to indicate what you’re talking about (so, for example, the “Second Life® world” or “Second Life® viewer”).

Now just to be clear–we’re only talking about the first or most prominent use. We’ve seen some blog posts using ® after every mention of “Second Life.” After the initial reference to the trademark at issue, there’s no need to use the symbol again. And there’s no need to use a noun again unless the omission of the noun makes it unclear what you’re talking about. So, for example, it’s useful to distinguish between different aspects of the Second Life services, like whether you mean the “Second Life world” (the 3D space) or the “Second Life viewer” (the application).

3. Is there an easy way for bloggers who focus on Second Life to take care of this? So they don’t have to worry about including a trademark symbol every time they post about Second Life?

There is. Check out the SLED Blog banner at http://www.sl-educationblog.org/ as an example of proper usage. This is a blog we support with a license that has a lot of great contributions by education-oriented Residents. You’ll see that under the blog name, in smaller text, there’s a descriptive byline that explains what the blog is about: “K-20 Education Using the Second Life® World.” You’ll also see that this byline takes care of the trademark symbol and the first noun after “Second Life” for the blog posts.

For blogs that are just about Second Life, this is an easy way to go. But it’s important that the blog name be more prominent than the byline. And if the name uses the words “SL” or “inSL,” it should follow our license for this (or be under a separate written license like the SLED Blog).

4. Some bloggers have expressed concern about having to go back and change references to “Second Life” in blog posts they wrote before the updated policy. Do they have to do this?

We’re not going to ask bloggers to go back through blog posts predating the policy to change how they’ve described Second Life.

5. If it’s not possible to use a trademark symbol or a noun when describing Second Life (for example, due to space constraints), how should one refer to Second Life?

It’s probably OK to omit the trademark symbol and noun in these circumstances. We’ve addressed this in the section of our policy here about business cards (see paragraph 4 of the Guidelines). The goal of this part of the policy is not to be heavy-handed, but to provide guidance on how to discuss our products and services consistent with trademark law. This can be a complicated subject. We’ve tried to provide some clear examples, but no trademark policy can cover every possible situation.

6. The inSL logo license prohibits displaying the logo with disparaging material. What is “disparaging”? And who decides this?

Disparagement” is a “false and injurious statement that discredits and detracts from the reputation of another’s property, product, or business.” Under the license, Linden Lab has sole discretion to determine what’s “disparagement.” We’re huge fans of free speech, fair criticism, and parody (like Get a First Life). But it’s important to get your facts right. If you’re ever unsure whether certain material is “disparaging,” it’s best to display the inSL logo elsewhere with content that you have no doubts about.

7. Does Linden Lab have exclusive rights in the letters “SL” combined? Is any use of “SL” in a product or service name, business or organization name, or domain name going to be a trademark issue?

Yes, we have trademark rights in “SL” in connection with our virtual world goods and services. Any use of “SL” cannot infringe or dilute our trademark. Uses in brand names that are likely to present trademark issues include (but aren’t limited to) those where “SL” refers to “Second Life” and the use doesn’t comply with our license to use “SL”, and those uses for or related to virtual world goods or services.

8. Why was the trademark policy updated? And why now?

We updated the policy to address changes in the Second Life community and virtual worlds in general. In the past few years, the Second Life community has grown significantly and there’s been a proliferation of other virtual worlds. Our trademark policy has evolved along with these developments.

A key term in our earlier policies–and central to trademark law–was to “avoid confusion,” which means to avoid creating confusion about what’s provided by Linden Lab and what isn’t. When the Second Life community was much smaller and generally unknown to the public at large, our policy allowed Residents to use certain trademarks on their websites (which the policy called “fansites”) to show their connection to the Second Life community. At that time, for example, a disclaimer on a Resident website that showed the Second Life Eye-in-Hand logo could be enough to protect against confusion. That was because the early group of Residents was incredibly familiar with Linden Lab and could easily distinguish Linden Lab’s website from Resident sites.

With the growth of the Second Life community and a greater awareness of Second Life by those outside the community, it was increasingly important to take precautions to ensure that when people saw our trademarks (particularly people less familiar with Linden Lab), they knew it was a product or service of Linden Lab. In addition, as more virtual worlds emerged, it was important to make sure our trademarks were used only for Second Life and not for virtual worlds provided by others. With these developments, we needed a more robust trademark policy. So we published an updated policy around January of 2007 and then again this year.

9. How is it that Linden Lab can update its trademark policy? And why can’t Residents be “grandfathered” in under the earlier policies?

Trademark policies frequently evolve to deal with new or different circumstances. This happens because trademark owners can change how they allow their trademarks to be used. It was important for Linden Lab to update its policy to avoid confusion given the growth of the Second Life community and virtual worlds in general. We can’t “grandfather” in earlier uses of our trademarks because the uses could create confusion now. The whole goal of updating the policy is to avoid confusion. However, we want to work with Residents who need time and help making adjustments. If you need extra time or help, please write us at tm-questions@lindenlab.com.

10. Why is the trademark policy in the Terms of Service?

The Terms of Service are the conditions under which Linden Lab offers the Second Life services. One of those conditions is adherence to our trademark policy, meaning that any use of our trademarks–both inworld and outside of Second Life–must comply with our policy.

We realize that this isn’t the extent of the questions. Please spend some time reading through our FAQs. We will be updating them to include the Q&A above. If you don’t find what you’re looking for there, please write us at tm-questions@lindenlab.com.

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151 Responses to More on Trademarks

  1. cosa nostra says:

    please use your energy on more added value things ! trademark or not, if SECOND LIFE keeps sucking you will not need a trademark anymore moving forward !

    cosa

  2. Obvious Schism says:

    “We’ve seen some blog posts using ® after every mention of “Second Life.” After the initial reference to the trademark at issue, there’s no need to use the symbol again.”….

    Have% you* never$ heard@ of£ irony?

  3. Otenth Paderborn says:

    Much better than previous announcements. Thank you for listening and taking the time to respond to concerns.

  4. Trinity Nabob says:

    Who cares. There is problems with in world transactions right now. Lets focus on that shall we.

  5. Thanks, LauraP, for the update on the trademark clarification.

    We could split hairs about some slight details here, of course 🙂 But it’ll give me personally enough to think about for the next few days.

  6. Vivienne Daguerre says:

    On my sim in a cave I have cave paintings, like those done by cave men in France (Lescaux I believe). In such caves it is common to find handprints of ancient artists dipped in their painting medium and applied to the walls. For fun, in that vein, and acknowledging the “ancient Lindens” I put coloured handprints on the wall using the SL eye in hand logo. Is this an infringement or should I remove them? The cave art appears on no website or anywhere outside of SL.

  7. Sweetly Blessed says:

    How about adressing Resident concerns where the STABILITY of the GRID, LOST INVENTORY ITEMS, GRID BEING OFFLINE CONTINUALLY, PEOPLE LOSING MONEY IN THE GAME BY THE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS is concerned! This is far more IMPORTANT than this lengthy post on Trademarks!!!
    Why do you aviod answering our repeated questions and concerns and busy yourselves with adding new features that totally bork the game and add a new viewer, etc.. without proper testing FIRST?
    This is where we need, want and deserve ANSWERS; REAL ONES THAT MAKE SENSE AND ARE TRUTHFUL, I might add…
    Continual Bandaids on your gapeing wound are not even coming close to serving ANY purpose!!
    We are not stupid and the patience of all of us is wearing very thin. Why not spend time on a stable grid which is what we are all begging you for? I just don’t get this? It makes absolutely NO DAMN SENSE!!
    Sorry, but this has gotten insane and way past the point of being something we are willing to deal with on a moment to moment basis!

  8. thegrimmling Snook says:

    I mentioned on my personal blogs variations of “SL” or “Second Life” not thinking about the whole trademarking thing. Does that apply too?

    Oh, I mean my MySpace blog and it was no reference to any good or services.

  9. Pingback: http://blog.secondlife.com/2008/04/18/more-on-trademarks/#comments - SLUniverse Forums

  10. thegrimmling Snook says:

    (in responce to post 7 aka Sweetly Blessed’s post)

    we all been asking about parts of that. I rememebr that one asset server they found after it went missing last summer. But compaired to other vrtual worlds Second Life IS the most flexible and most advance.

    Seeing SL rolls out these “progressive” updates, we get to play with features other virtual worlds do not have. Because of this we have to take the good and the bad.

    I personally wish they lock down tight the loss of assets like money and inventory items better, but SL is a game that you chosen to play. No one forced you to register and spend time playing it.

    And if you are loosing money, check your transaction history, I discovered it was one of my groups leetching cash from me in their monthly bill paying.

  11. Thank you for this clarification, Laura. It has addressed my concerns in a straightforward way.

  12. Obvious Schism says:

    Ok fair enough. But can we mention SL in this blog? Or can someone tell me how to find the appropriate symbols on my keyboard? Its never been an issue before so I think they are all rusty. My mothers name is Sally Langford and she is 83. Can you put her mind to rest that she won’t be visited by SL lawyers in the middle of the night after she has tagged her initials all over the London tube system?

  13. cosa nostra says:

    @10

    grimm, for new customers, free accounts or premium members entering this game, there is nothing mentioned about a BETA PROGRAM, people should be informed prior than creating the account that they accept the ‘terms & conditions’ first ! right ?

    for example, linden can say that SL is a BETA PROGRAM where every hour an update or a crash or something else can happen! not doing this is against any BUSINESS LAW ! it would also prevent from people spending money in here, buying land, or going to premium accounts !

    so again, if I buy a new car, the seller doesnt tell me that the engine is still a BETA version, my car breaks down every day or has to go back to the service station ???? how would you react on this, is this not a rip off !

    does this explain ?

    cosa

  14. Soundsmith Kamachi says:

    It is good to see the clarifications on trademarks (which you shoudl have doen earlier). I do not see that what you require is different from what other companies do.

    BTW: This is a post about trademark. Is it impossible to post something that is NOT related to performance or other technical probelms (from which we all suffer) without getting this message thread being filled up with discussions about these problems?

  15. Pingback: Silence ≠ Death* «

  16. Jessica Hultcrantz says:

    And while we are at it, this blog post is unique enough to be considered as a work protected by copyright as stated in international laws, so don’t quote me! ©

    This whole trademark ™ thing has gone ridiculous.

    GO FIX THE SL-GRID ™ !

    Geezz this insanity requires everyone to keep the The Second Life® Brand Center chart printed out or in bookmarks to be able to follow all the rules…

    Free speech? Don’t think so with all these rules.

    And oh, did I mention… go kick the monkeys in the ass(et) department 🙂

  17. Jessica Hultcrantz says:

    And yes the above post IS sarcastisc on purpose if anyone missed that 😀

  18. WILBER says:

    Yawn…irrelevent post, why worry about the trademark and how people are using it. Do you think you should be focusing your attention on matters that if fixed will make you even more richer, like grid stability.

    The poor performance of the grid as of late along with some less than appealing changes like the lowering of the values of some 13000 island owners land will make the trademark issue a moot point soon. SL will be cooked, its already painfully obvious that thousands of owners have been struggleling to make it work here considering that daily for a period of time transactions have been failing and its now gotten to the point that people are not purchasing items for fear of loseing their hard earned money because of the non funtional grid.

    The large joke going around in circles is that everything is broken but the ability of tier and monthly fee collection. I couldnt agree more. I have paid tier of 590usd for a couple years now and cannot for the life of me remember a time that my monthly fee was deducted late but i do remember times when the stipend was late.

    We do appreciate the apologies you have made for things being broken but after so many they do seem to be somwhat hollow. All we ask is that you listen to your customer base when we say that we want stability over bling. thank you for all you are doing and dont get me wrong, I love this game and we all want only the best but it is all in your control and if you are swerving all over the road your surely going to throw some of the passengers out the windows.

  19. Itsa Game says:

    This is a game – don’t forget this!

  20. thegrimmling Snook says:

    (responce to post 13)

    But realize when you joined you are subject to SL’s TOS and their is thier solftware and their physical hardware and for the most part can do what they wish with.

    And for some of the issues with stability and how scripted items work. Most of the contents of SL is “user generated”. SL is only responsible for any scripts they produce or if it involves their physics engine.

    And as you mention Business Law, your using their privatly owned and ran product. So Real World business law does not apply.

    Linden Labs can tomorrow decide that to own a store or sell anything in SL can require a 20% charge per a sale and it would be legal seeing this is THEIR software, THEIR hardware, and THEIR virtual space.

    better way to put it, they allow you to use their products, you have no legal right to anything that even touches their software.

  21. Kit Meredith says:

    Laura, thank you for posting about this and continuing the dialogue. I think we still have some work to do, in order to make sure there’s complete clarity about the policy, but this appears to be a step forward.

    One question, though – you conclude by writing:

    “The Terms of Service are the conditions under which Linden Lab offers the Second Life services. One of those conditions is adherence to our trademark policy, meaning that any use of our trademarks–both inworld and outside of Second Life–must comply with our policy.”

    On its face, this would conflict with some things that Robin Linden said at the last office hours she held on April 8 about not applying the Terms of Service to activities outside of Second Life. She seemed to imply that out-of-world infringement would be handled through RL channels, not the ToS. Would you please explain this apparent disparity?

  22. Captain Noarlunga says:

    Bottom line is that they need to do this before the IPO……. everything else that is being done lately is to enhance the value and desireabilty for prospective shareholders. Fixing the grid is not a priority…..investors look at the returns, not the blogs.

  23. Thanks very much for the clarifications; this was actually really helpful. I now return you to your regularly scheduled irrelevant blog comments…

  24. Obvious Schism says:

    @ Vivienne – As your attorney, my advice is to remove anything and everything that remotely resembles anything else. This includes the caves themselves as they could be considered copies of other holes that exist (or have existed). Its better just to have nothing at all, as then there is no possible infringement on anything.

  25. JayR Cela says:

    Why and the heck didn’t you all do this clear, concise, description in the first place??????????????

    JayR Cela

  26. Naima aya says:

    I think this stuff is something that is really boring Linden labs…. 😐 and now is boring all residents about a symbol ™ or ®. Image that all trademarks ask to use that.

    I wonder know why u have a tiny smile on the bottom of the page 🙂

    BTW that trademark really don’t mess me, what mess me Is how the things are going and most part of it is affecting the residents ( a mean the honest ones) and the thief are still laughing on us.

    What a world, damm even on a Second life there is something doomed.

    Cy ™

  27. Alicia Sautereau says:

    as my email i have sent in regarding the logo, domain name and general crap hasn`t been answerd in lie, ohh, 3-4 weeks atleast, feel free to give me a reply here if your gonna ignore me

    http://www.klsl.net

    as said in the email, slowly piecing together a new site wich will take another month or 2 to complete as i have service to revamp first befor any of your so called trademark BS

    so, what the hell is the answer on the godd@mn domain name use of 2 letters + sl + extension?

  28. Vincent Nacon says:

    @19: nope, it’s a platform… it’s only a game if you turn your sim into a game. 😉

  29. cosa nostra says:

    @20

    grimm, oops, I have a VAT number in RL and all my tier to linden is invoiced to my RL company !!! mmhhhhhh ………..so guess they have to comply with law and trading agreements ! right ? if they screw me, I will screw them back !

    if ya buy land, same like in rl you pay your tax, but the land is yours, so i dont see any difference, they promote it anyhow as a VIRTUAL WORLD WITH VIRTUAL LAND FOR SALE ! so if they take ya land tomorrow and ya have paid ya tax it is illegal and I will prosecute !

    also going back to the trademark subject, this means that from now on, I can use any SECOND LIFE logos, slogans, etc …. out-world ! because no rl laws would apply on this !

    cosa

  30. Mortus Allen says:

    Thats all fine and well though my burning question is how do make the little circled R and TM symbols in the first place? Not everyone knows how to do this.

  31. Have you registered ‘Hippo’ & ‘Grid’ ?

  32. Cincia Singh says:

    WTG laurap for an intelligent and condensed version of the application of trademark law to our own little virtual world. And @ all the off-topic flaming … and whining … I think SL should charge you a fee for providing this blog for you to use to sharpen your rapier wit (blatant sarcasm) and display your offensive attitude toward anything that doesn’t meet your immediate needs. It’s a game we’re playing, and you’re losing the game. Ok, I’m back inworld and gaming again.

  33. MR Little says:

    I don’t think many residents are upset using the ™or ® on say their blogs that are relating to some biz venture.

    However using ™or ® in casual written communications is just silly, have you *ever* seen anybody write:

    “My Dell ® keyboard just broke, so I dug up an old Packard Bell ® keyboard I had stashed in the closet.”

    “Last night was fun, but i had too many Bacardi ® and Cokes ®”

    “Can anybody help? My Ford ® Mustang ® wont start, I think it’s the starter, are the Autozone ® starters any good?”

  34. Pingback: Linden Lab Clarifies Trademark Use « Dusan Writer’s Metaverse

  35. This is a LOT clearer than before…

    Now, how about those crashes?

  36. cosa nostra says:

    @33 – fantastic 😉 …….. lmao

  37. Obvious Schism says:

    So how do we get the ™ or ® symbols? Its driving me mad

  38. cosa nostra says:

    type it like this obvious (c) & (TM)

  39. cosa nostra says:

    oops ….. this one also (R)

  40. R H says:

    Where do you avatars get the idea the Second Life™ environment aka world is _a_ game? It allows the creation of many games within it’s confines, and I do mean confines. Wasn’t that long ago we were clearly told by a LL rep here that “all your IP belong to us”
    If you bring IP into SL it is LindenLab property.
    SL is not a game, it is an environment and exists in the Real World and has already exposed itself and it’s management to Real World repercussions.

    Thanx for the clarifications Lauraplinden. One of the rare clearly stated posts we have seen recently emanating from LL®

  41. Hopeless says:

    Who Cares

    No one in their right mind is thinking of building or creating anything until there is a stable platform to work with.
    Hundreds of lost transactions a day, $’s of lost dollars. I’ll worry about copyright infringement when I can log on long enough to have someone look at my stuff.

    Hell it’s Friday. The system won’t be up long enough for me to do anything until Tuesday.

  42. Lee Ludd says:

    #24: “… Its better just to have nothing at all, as then there is no possible infringement on anything.”

    Be careful. “nothing at all” ends a famous sonnet by Archibald MacLeish, and I am sure it is still under copyright.

    “There in the sudden blackness the black pall
    Of nothing, nothing–nothing at all.”

    http://poetry.poetryx.com/poems/793/

  43. topmate says:

    This is remarkably generous of the lab.

    Concerned with the growth of virtual worlds (?), the lab has been magnanimous in the extreme to act to protect those other worlds. Now, thanks to the implementation of the trademark policy, anyone reading about “the platform currently known as not first life or third life, but something in between” on a blog or website will be in absolutely no doubt about which of the virtual worlds is so unstable and frustrating to its customers that those customers managed to post 150 exasperated comments to a post in only 18 minutes.

    Its generosity almost unheard of in a competitive business environment, for a business to ensure that its competitors aren’t tarred with the same brush. Lab, your users who do not waver in their level of support for your respectful treatment of us, salute you.

  44. Kyder Ling says:

    I don’t know exactly how I feel about this. On one hand, it does kind of crimp on some things in world, but at the same time, I am sure there are people who aren’t smart enough and think that websites like ‘men’s second life fashion’ are 100% endorsed and operated by LL.

  45. Hopeless says:

    32 and all you Linden wannabees and free loaders. Talking about this topic is the real off topic conversation. How can anyone seriously think about this crap when I know 2 dozen people who can’t pay their tiers because their businesses are going bankrupt.

    Get rid of the camping, bots and fix the damn bugs. I guess if you don’t have any property, that you’ve paid for in Real dollars you can stand back and cheer the fanboys on. I love the ones who say, go ahead and sell more for me, that’s so much BS because if you had paid for your account you would be just as upset as the rest of us.

    Today they sent me a customer satisfaction survey. The grid was down, support was down and the phone lines were not working. And they had the gall to send me a customer satisfaction survey.

    Damn I can’t wait until the next shareholders meeting.

  46. Hopeless says:

    One last thing.

    All week long this system has been crashing. All week long they have been screwing with it. Now the weekend is here, it’s down again and they want to clear the blog of all the “Bad” topics so noobs don’t see how bad things really are.

    What next a Torley post?

  47. Nimrod says:

    I wrote to the mentioned email address perhaps the next day when all of this was first blogged here, but got no answer back. Also sent a support ticket as FAQ improvements and it was closed with a sorry, that is the wrong place comment.
    Recently I added my site to the brand center and placed the inSL logo in a hope that is good and someone will contact me if not.
    But still have an unanswered question. What about machinima? Is that enough if we just add an inSL logo for example to the credits? Is there any difference now between fan videos and commercial videos filmed in SL?

  48. Web Page says:

    I was wondering the same thing 37 but I didn’t know how to ask!

  49. Argos Hawks says:

    In response to #7: “Uses in brand names that are likely to present trademark issues include (but aren’t limited to) those where “SL” refers to “Second Life” and the use doesn’t comply with our license to use “SL”, and those uses for or related to virtual world goods or services.”
    The trademark application covers virtual worlds and businesses that provide virtual worlds. It does not cover businesses that provide goods and/or services for use in virtual worlds. You can claim that it does, but that doesn’t make it true.

  50. Obvious Schism says:

    @42 Thank you for pointing that out. Somehow or the other those words came out of my mind in that order. I can’t swear to not having heard Archibald say that though. But there is the slim possibility that I am Archibald himself

  51. cosa nostra says:

    @32

    I sold my 2th island back to linden, my 1st one I just cant let my customers down, as hard as it is, I cant !

    what do I do, cancel my account and let in one month the island being whiped away by LINDEN, knowing that everyone living there is going to enter one day SL(r)(tm)(c) seeing that there assets are returned to there inventories and there investment is gone !

    it is a big descision, but I will play fair and gonna pay back the money they paid for it at root …. thats how I handle customers in rl or in sl

  52. Mmmyes says:

    I wonder if they are going to try registering Second Lag, much like Canadian Tire tried (in vain) to register Crappy Tire a few years ago because so many people referred to it as such.

  53. cosa nostra says:

    in my post 51 I had to refer to post 45 (not 32 !)

  54. Anonymous Resident says:

    It seems things are going without talking to residents… land prices are dropping in 2 weeks, all land owners will have their land devaluated… Is this right for residents ? Or is this better for Linden Lab ?

    I won’t discuss longer, but there’s a form of disrespect from Linden Lab I can bear anymore, though I was admirative in front such Linden Genius and creativity… All goes upside down these last month.

    Stability is going worth, OK. We must understand that Second Life is a pretty much complex software and it is not easy to develop.

    BUT, communication and respect to residents that have financial issues would be welcome and more than normal.

    Since then, I was addicted to Second Life as many residents here. But I found that I could free my creativity in a open world, so I switched to OpenSimulator. And I feel so free now.

    Viva OpenSim open source !

  55. Moveing Out says:

    LOL!!!

    “Any use of “SL” cannot infringe or dilute our trademark.” you do that all by yourselfs eveytime you screw up the grid.Fire the lawers and find some good coders and put them to work debugging your spaghetti code.

  56. Alicia Sautereau says:

    alt + (numpad)0 1 5 3

  57. Not Again says:

    This blog post about protecting Linden Labs’ trademarks is longer than the blog about protecting thousands of SL users’ copyrights.
    Linden Labs’ priorities are clear.

  58. Pingback: Linden clarification on Trademark | Lost in Bananaverse

  59. Gerald Wylie says:

    Oh, come on. This is all getting a bit ridiculous. My email blog doesn’t have a trade mark symbol and if it has to be used every time the words are used then the words will not get used. Is that good PR.

    Soon you’ll be insisting that Donal Pleasant has a subtitle about you when he says, “You only live twice Mr Bond!”.

    Crazy

  60. Cocoanut Koala says:

    Nero fiddled while Rome burned.

    coco

  61. Not Again says:

    p.s.; this very page (and much more of the site) contains several trademarks (registered or not) which are not owned by Linden Labs. None of these trademarks are noted with a “tm” or (R) symbol.

  62. You must be joking says:

    And of course, users can be aware of and satisfied in the fact that in the United States of America, there is such a thing such as FREEDOM OF SPEECH… and that includes both spoken and written word. Even Trademark law cannot interfere with that basic legal right. Freedom of speech means that so long as you are doing so in a not-for-profit setting, you can say Second Life or Linden Lab or SL about as much as you like, in any form you like, complimentary or disparaging, and there is not much Linden Lab can do about it. IF they decide to ban you for doing so, you CAN take them to court for abuse of your rights of freedom of speech.

    Sorry Linden Lab. I respect your right of copyright and trademark and I will even stand by you if such is truthfully abused, but anyone in the business knows that trademark law is pretty much to protect your BUSINESS interests, and has very little to do with non-business areas such as BLOGS.

    Corporations try to throw their weight around all the time and they often rely on people’s ignorance of and fear of the law… but as with Copyright Law there are limitations as to the realm and applicability of Trademark Law… and that pretty much is delineated at the point where business and for-profit ends. Just about anyone has the right to write about Linden Lab and Second Life in a not-for-profit, personal-blog setting and pretty much ignore any supposed “Trademark” issues. That’s what’s nice about living in this country– you can pretty much say or print anything you want and as long as it’s not slanderous or libelous… there’s not much anyone– certainly not a lightweight like Linden Lab– can do about it.

  63. Plum Planer says:

    I tought only professional companies had trademarks .. some schoolkids playing with there little toys do not need that .. come one linden kiddies wake up and start working on our game again instaid of trying to be pros.

    Plum ®

  64. skull oyen says:

    i cant tp wth

  65. Medhue Simoni says:

    Who the hell cares. Get the grid stable. We already know LL only cares about money now. Personally, as a business man, my main concern is my products. I could give a crap less about names or crap like that. Service and reliablity has been lost in sl for money. I have heard here and here about sl’er revolting but now that virus is spreading. Give back some confidence to your customers LL. Give back some money for that matter. Around the world, people are hurting, and its getting worse. LL is quickly becoming like all the rest, take your money and give u nothing. “The TOS says we can do that”. Well u keep thinking that way and see where that gets u.

  66. richard says:

    thank god we are not bring the real world in here

  67. Okay, my blogspot URL has SL in it: http://ccslfashionista.blogspot.com What I want to know is if you don’t want people to use SL in that fashion or not?

  68. Pingback: Fim de greve e clarificação! at Geta

  69. You must be joking says:

    BTW everyone, next video tutoral coming from Torley Linden:

    “How to put Copyright and Trademark Keyboard Controls (aha!) In Your Second Life Literature!”

    “Hi, this is your favoriet watermelon connoseur, TORLEY LINDEN (copyright tradmark). Since the recent LL announcement of trademark policies, a lot of you have been wondering how you can conduct everyday speech, since you don’t know how to place TM and (c) symbols in your writing (such as I just did.. AHA!). Well, I’m here to tell you how…”

    /me waiting for the day that the VR world will be based around Open Sim or some competitor that is somewhat less analretentive and more productive than the current company…

  70. Obvious Schism says:

    This is the most interesting debate I have had so far in SL ™ or ®. Normally I would go in-world™ or ® to talk about these issues. However, I find it easier to come to this blog now. I am glad that there is a forum for such topics because without healthy and open discussion, a resolution – or perhaps reconcilliation – is not possible. I will report back to my friends in-world ™ or ® via the wonders of the web networking facility. However, they, like me, may perhaps feel that there is a mismatch, or even a schism, between their perceived virtual reality and the defense of a corporate position. It is still a fascinating construct nonetheless, and one which I obviously will endeavour to follow to the best of my abilities.

  71. Medhue Simoni says:

    The crazy part is that most business in sl are towing the line. Informing users and giving support where we can. While LL worries about it name. No1 is hurting the name but u, LL. Taking money for thing that “NEVER” work right is wrong. Dont advertise sl as a place to do business when u cant keep it running and the systems u have in place do not work (the search). All classified ads for the past month should be returned if u had any decency. At the very least.

  72. Fellatione Aabye says:

    Dear Linden Labs,

    I personaly am afraid that you are KILLING what once was a fun world called SECOND LIFE. (or killing all criticism in the national and international press?)

    OK that you protect your names etc .. but the use of it ??? Pardon my french but even one of the most powerfull companies US based (Microsoft, Pepsi, Doctor Pepper… won t begin a lawsuit or ban someone who dare to speak out the name )

    Apparently YOU only care about trademarks (ahum ahum … a smart company would have registered all the trademarks years ago) …. Now on the sudden (Now there is competition coming on the net)

    But in my opinion wouldn t it be better first to focus on your “reliability” inworld and in real world ? Because, you are getting branded as unreliable in all points in the outside world.

  73. Sahfur Silvera says:

    Somehow I think we can manage to differentiate between canon and not canon if we were able to even run anything after the tech bugs and almost inevitable tech fixing. An amount of common sense is by default inherent within your user base (except the sad few I will neglect to mention may seem at times as if this isn’t the case). What will we do when everything has an (R) by it in the world? Already useless words plague most languages. Why add to the distopia? Did it ever happen upon your minds that perhaps… just perhaps… The irony that is almost standard in all instances where people who use (R) alot, particularly in blogs, is actually painting a negative self image of corporate paranoia for the ones enforcing it? I am not a product sales rep or anything but typically people shy away from (R) and such because it annoys them. In most areas this has been a very fair transition, yet I feel this needs to be said, although I am certain many others are already saying exactly what I am.

    Example: SL (R) (TM) (C) Is a fun place for me to go Timmy! I would love to say more about SL (R) (TM) (C) but my finger gets a cramp from having to type so many annoying characters into my keyboard so I will let you stay with WoW. Have fun Timmy (R) (TM) (C)!

    Ooh isn’t this fun? Irony. Its a joke which calls forth despair and debilitated fingers. Ha.. Ha.
    I am a huge supporter of SL in general (R) (TM) (C) and the people behind it, but doesn’t it seem that continually shoving (R) in front of peoples face may begin to make them question what else is being done? This is like spending the money you would use for grooming a pet so it can be adequate material for a talent show, on talent show entry fees. “Make sure you make sure it isn’t falling apart before you label your art.”
    😀 Enjoy spinning the next announcement.

  74. B00tsy says:

    @46 exactly..thats why.

    I was thinking the same thing when i saw the new blog post.

  75. I really support most of your goals and your ways to achive them. But the need to specify if one talks about the Second Life (R) World or Viewer seems unnessecary complicated and artificial to me.

    If I talk about SL I usually mean the complete product which includes server side and viewer side. Is that the Second Life (R) Bundle then???

    Best Ice

  76. Tao Takashi says:

    Thanks for the clarification but I still think this is a big big big mistake you do here. The message of what Second Life is has been mostly created by it’s residents and thanks to the fansite guidelines. All those sites out there helped creating that message. They helped doing marketing and they helped making Second Life as big as it is today.

    These guidelines have been somewhat revolutionary and the success of them show that it’s the right way to do marketing these days. The new policy is a big step backwards. You had a great crowdsourced marketing strategy in place which is now at stake. You want to control your message but there is no control of a message anymore these days (maybe there never was). The market is the message. Linden Lab always was better than many others at listening to people and this is what you should keep doing. Adjust your platform according to the message the residents create and you will keep a win-win situation.

    Additionally I wonder who should own the name of a virtual world they inhabit. Should it be the platform provider or should it be the people. I think the latter. It might be revolutionary in terms of old-school marketing but we are not talking about old-school businessed here, we are talking about the future of the internet.

    For me all of this means to concentrate more on things like OpenSim and AWG in order to have a choice between a more and more restrictive Linden Lab and other providers. I am also not sure if I should or even be allowed to present Second Life at conferences/barcamps. Probably not.

    I hope you will understand that we are one. There is no Second Life without the residents and there is no Second Life without Linden Lab. We equally created it and thus I think we equally should be able to use it’s name as we see fit (with the exception of alternative virtual worlds). So bring back the fansite guidelines. They made sense, the new ones don’t.

  77. Want clarification says:

    OK Second Life has a Trade Mark…So what?
    What Id like to Know is As your a Virtual Company In Real World What About The REal World Companies that Trade And Do business With in Second Life Are There Trade Marks Protected Too?
    Also Us the Gamers /Creators who make Second Life What It Is Is our Content Our Work Our Scripts Our Builds Protected By CopyWrite Laws? oh wait thats intelectual copywrite or something?
    What I want Is FairHandedness If u on band Wagon About Copywrite Then All Companies wether Virtual or Not Should Have there Brands Legally Recognised as CopyWrite Too Lindens Or is it same Senerio as with the world in reality? ONE LAW FOR US ONE LAW FOR YOU!!
    And on another note off Topic If you Dont stop being Biased to us ATI Graphic card users your gonna lose alot of creative Talent from Sl and alot of money too..as i cant stay connected for more then 10mins a DAY!!!!!

  78. Grace says:

    Thanks for addressing the community concerns in a clear (and timely) manner – it is very much appreciated.

  79. Renee Faulds says:

    Why don’t you try fixing SL than spouting your mouths off threating residents !! Jeez you people really have the balls don’t you !!!!

  80. Geneko Nemeth says:

    Use the “Character Map” application. Both Windows and GNOME ships with one. ♪

  81. Renee Faulds says:

    Threating residents over trademarks with no notice perm ban!!!

    How about we tkae action against you for inventory loss, business losses. Some RL Law firm going to OWN YOU one of these days!!!

    Phil where your 2/3rd’s of my monthly tier !!!!!!!!!!!

  82. Kyder Ling says:

    “Why don’t you try fixing SL than spouting your mouths off threating residents !! Jeez you people really have the balls don’t you !!!!”
    –#79

    Well guys, let’s begin checking this post out. First, there are ambiguous issues with SL that need fixing. Great feedback there. And then we have an accusation of threats, accompanied by 2, (count them) two exclamation points. And then an acusation about LL saying that they have testicles, followed by four exclamation points. Needless to say, the addition of this extra exclamation points increase the importance of this comment and thus must be worth reading, maybe even several times.

    Okay really though, could you fools stop being so pathetic. If you want to make a jab at a big company who’s product you cannot live without, I would suggest you at least put some damn time and effort into it. Post “Since the last patch, I have been crashing more often than ever,” rather than “ZOMG FIX SL!!!!!!!!!”

    Seriously, I am begining to get on my last nerves.

  83. I agree with Tao. After encouraging many of us for years to do what you’re now saying isn’t allowed, you’ve now managed to make most of the popular Second Life a violation. To wit: SLUniverse.com, SLExchange.com, SLProfiles.com, SLTrivia.com, SLGuide.com – the operators of these web sites, myself included, have spent a lot of time, money, and effort promoting these sites with the Linden blessing. That’s to speak nothing of all the work done on search engine optimization, which now is all for naught.

    Bad, bad move. I’ve very disappointed. So much for helping the community.

  84. nika talaj says:

    I notice that Reuters continues its casual, unmarked usage of both “SL” and “Second Life” in stories on its SL-branded website, “Second Life News Center”. I assume that usage within all news stories (and blog postings) on SL-specific sites that are named/branded in accordance with your policy can follow that casual use convention as well, yes?

    I further note that SLX (SL Exchange) continues operation with that naming, with this statement on their home page:
    “Second Life and the inSL logo are trademarks of Linden Research, Inc.
    Virtuatrade, LLC is not affiliated with or sponsored by Linden Research. ”

    I assume that SLX has worked out their naming and branding so it is in compliance, yes? (After all, Ansche Chung is an investor!) I ask because this may point to a satisfactory outcome for some of the site owners who have been expressing concern here.

  85. Veronica Quackenbush says:

    @6 Vivienne:

    Thanks for mentioning your caves, I will certainly come and check them out 🙂 but I don’t think you need to worry. As LL acknowledge under question 6, they’re huge fans of parody. If you’re worried they might get nasty, offer to build another cave as a DPW project, then it won’t be unofficial anymore 😉

    @14 Soundsmith:

    I understand your frustration, but allow me to paraphrase your question: Is it impossible to post something that IS related to performance or other technical problems in blog threads about these problems? The answer, sadly, is YES, most of the time it is impossible, because comments are routinely closed on these threads (This is not disparagement, it may be injurious but it is not false, anyone can back it up with numbers simply by counting recent blog posts. Look for the ones glibly marked [RESOLVED] B)

    So I can sympathize with the people who complain about technical problems here. They have nowhere else to go. Also, while some of these complaints are mere whining, people do sometimes have useful things to say about technical issues–useful workarounds for example. I’ve recently discovered a very useful and efficient workaround for deep freezelag (the kind where you grind along at 6 frames per minute) and I’ve been trying to make noise about it here (and in the JIRA), but I have no idea how many people catch it, since I can’t put it in the threads that *matter*

    FWIW, here it is again: if you’re having major trouble with freezelag, try the following

    (1) create an alt (or use one you already have)
    (2) launch two instances of the SL viewer (preferably different versions, like one 1.19 and one 1.18), one with yourself, one with your alt
    (3) your overall average fps will go down, but you will have no more freezelag; basically, you fill in the troughs with the peaks, smoothing out your overal frame rate

    It’s crazy, it’s counterintuitive as hell, and IT REALLY WORKS, so I think it’s worth making a noise about, even if I can’t do it where it belongs.

  86. Say What? says:

    If SL is day-to-day basically marginally functional… then the SL brand is basically worthless… so why bother to protect a brand that has become the metaphor for things that don’t work?

  87. Delgado Cinquetti says:

    @6 – I’m almost certain, that your art on the cave walls are permitted. Providing, of course, they are not used in conjuntion with Satanic ritualistic orgies.

  88. lauraplinden says:

    @21 – Thanks, Kit. The TOS governs your relationship with Linden Lab and your use of the Second Life services. Your relationship with us includes how you use our trademarks–both inworld and outside of Second Life. Was the office hours discussion about infringement of Resident intellectual property on sites or services that Linden Lab doesn’t operate? If so, that’s something that Residents should take up with the person who infringed or with the other site or service. This doesn’t fall within our TOS because it’s not about infringement on our services or your relationship with us. Hope this explanation helps.

    @ 27, 47 – I’ll look into what happened to your emails and make sure you get responses. We’ve received lots of email questions and are trying to respond as quickly as we can. I’ll also make sure questions submitted as support tickets get re-routed to the right place. Thanks for calling this to our attention.

  89. Incony says:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Life

    suggests we put this blog in our inventories and lose it…

    “A more disturbing fault, believed to be caused by the same issue, is “inventory loss” [84] [85] [86] in which items in a user’s inventory, including those which have been paid for, can disappear without warning or permanently enter a state where they will fail to appear in world when requested (giving an “object missing from database” error). Linden Labs offers no compensation for items that are lost in this way, and will not even record the data for debugging purposes if the user is not a Premium subscriber [87]; although many in-world businesses will attempt to compensate for this or restore items, they are under no obligation to do so and not all are able to do so. This fault alone has caused some users to abandon the world.[”

    “trademark object missing from database”

    “Linden Labs offers no compensation for items that are lost in this way, and will not even record the data for debugging purposes if the user is not a Premium subscriber ”

    yup.. lets get priorities right… you first..me second… never mind who`s money it is that maintains the value of the trade mark.

  90. Don Duke says:

    If multi-billionaire Bernie Ecclestone can’t trademark “F1” I doubt LL would win a court case regarding “SL”.

    quote: “It is no secret that Bernie Ecclestone has tried several times and at great cost to trademark the names F1 and Formula 1. He has, for the most part, been unsuccessful because of the generic nature of the phrase, “formula 1.” ”

    Just like “a second life” is pretty generic, imo.

    quote: “Repentance is the renewal of baptism. Repentance is a contract with God for a second life.” (St. John Climacus, 6th century AD)

    My 2Cents©

  91. Cynthia Deere says:

    I understand your concern with your own trademark but how can you really enforce it when you allow copyright infringement against companies like Disney every day and do nothing? Case in point, many of the pajama companies and Shirts R Us

  92. Jay Townsend says:

    @ 85 – also counterintuitive, my freezelag got better when i turned voice on. I never ran it. I had a customer that wanted to talk at me a couple of weeks ago though so i turned it on to listen to them. Since then, no freezelag. maybe an odd coincidence, maybe nothing to it, but for some it may be woth a try.

    On the daily issues, bugs, and brokeness plauging the grid…
    It is high time a CEO calls the top people at LL into a conferance room, hands them a 300 page printout of the posts of the increasingly discouraged residents made to this blog over the past two months. Tell everyone to start reading, and leave the room. Come back four hours later and say everyone seated in rows 4, 7, 16, and 22….you are fired, leave. Now for the rest of you we will have one of these meetings every month untill this *holds up a copy of the 300 page handout* is better. Now, go get to work.

  93. Pingback: trademark issue | Ana Lutetia

  94. Now there’s a blow. Since joining SL™ last November, I’ve been able to use my intials, SL, quite happily. My blog and podcast, “SL on SL” will now have to change! I believe I should be able to claim a copyright on SL© as “Sigmund Leominster” but clearly need to conform to the trademark of SL for the Second Life™ brand name.

    Henceforth I think I should be OK with “SL© on SL™” withiout getting into trouble.

    I also suggest that folks responding to this posting also respect MY copyright and refer to me as SL© or Sigmund Leominster©” on first referencing me in an article. After that, feel free to use plain old Siggy – just mark it Siggy© first time aorund.

    OK?

  95. BrightAngel Summers says:

    Its good you adreess the issue of trademarks in your name ,because i was getting a little annoyed looking up sl in search and finding it belonged to so many websites when i wasnt even looking for secondlife i still came up with the outages amount of websites out there , soo yeah its good you brought it up, now residents can now protect them selves from imposters of their own trade marks as well, including my own and others i know just by looking at them ; old timers are ok but the newer ones need to learn to stop taking other peoples works and start doing their own .

    as for the other issues, wish you would address them in the same manner as this like lost inventory lagginess , etc to manyt to adress here but every one will agree LL , you need to adress all issues soon not a year later.

  96. IAm Zabelin says:

    Hi lauraplinden

    When is your next in-world meeting / office hours on IP theft of user content ? And who is taking leadership of this important issue.

    I realize it may be less important than SL trademark, but to the millions of users the reverse is true, so hopefully that should balance it out.

    Can you please set up scheduled office hours for this.

    thx

  97. Dave says:

    Clear first old bugs before programming and adding new ones…

  98. Wynochee LeShelle says:

    Happy to have my own brands, logos, signs for my biz, wherever on planet or on technical platforms. No need to refer to a company wich name I have forgotten most of the time. So, no need to struggle with symbols or kilometers of written blabla. I feed them with fees, automaticaly each month, but doing my own thing, without using the name of any other or this… company. Have enough to do, to hold my inventory fit and to find the small moments, when a transaction is maybe, for a minute, possible, or to bring and edit a thing on my area. The use of this technical platform will maybe last as long until some better ones will appear somewhere on globe for less or no fees. Actual status of potential competitors are so far able, to give a picture that we will see some quality alternatives in near future. They are on their way, for free, for less fees or for reasonable fees and conditions. It is all about stability, customer service, quality, user-friendly behavior and price. In case of better conditions, somewhere, the move is ever just a mouseclick away. Easy decision, then. Would not be the first emigration of a population on earth, since egyptian or iceage times, for example. This is also possible in digital times, to vote with feets, or, as said, with mouseclicks, if things are uncomfy here and mor comfy there. Exact so easy is that in result.

  99. Reality Check says:

    #33 HAHAHAHA sad but true.

    To my understanding that is what this post has stated, the each time someone used the words second life together, would need to put a copyright logo next to it, and not only that but to follow it by a noun. You have got to be kidding me right.
    I would like to see this enforced on anything other than people using the trademarked name to sell or advertise products or services.
    In common dialog or written communication, I have nor will I EVER use a trademark sign, that is just stupid.
    And to those who are complaining about so many people making complaints about connectivity and inworld issues. If there were not so many issues, people would not need to complain so much.
    Linden Labs really does not care about its residents in its virtual world, they are just another large corporation interested in their monetary gain. Does this really surprise you.
    And to the post about some linden stating “they own all IP addresses” GET REAL. I seriously hope this was a mistranslation.
    To those who actually pay for this game, i really feel sorry for you. And yes it is a game, whether you use it for business or pleasure.
    I think that LL is going to find themselves in some serious legal battles in the near future. Because their program not only messes with the viewer now, it also messes with other applications running on your pc. The code writers need some refresher courses perhaps? If the new versions are an attestment to their abilities, it is a sad sad day indeed. LL stop hiring coders that have no clue how to fix things, and only create more problems.
    Oh and why report an issue? They never get answered anyway. I learned that after posting several times on an issue, well over 6 months ago, and to my knowledge still having the issue.
    I always laugh when i see a resolved issue on the welcome screen. It is amazing they work for LL when they obviously have no idea what a simple word like resolved means(that is like a 3rd grade vocab no?)
    Do we need to give the employees of LL a reeducation?
    I know i always make sure to tell people of the thousands of issues i face every week with this “game”.
    What makes me stay are the residents and nothing else.
    LL get ur head out of your rear!!!

  100. Wondering says:

    I know this may be a silly question, but I can’t find the answer.
    Particularly considering the way its worded in the TOS.

    How does this affect wearing or giving away clothing with the hand logo on it in world.

    The wording sounds like even wearing existing stuff made by Lindens could be against the TOS.

    I have some I made awhile back and some others made by others that I acquired as freebies. Can I wear these can I continue to give them away?

    Does Linden Labs not want people wearing the logo in world, that could be called displaying it depending on interpretation.

    Separately, what if I sell them for $1L (I cant find a multi vendor that handles $0L)

  101. Trinity Nabob says:

    @40 it’s what ever ppl want it to be. If I log on with the intention of treated it like it is a hobby, fun, or a game that is MY business. If I log on and try to start a business that again is MY business. It is not however up to another subscriber to tell me how to treat SL. As it is MY business, so mind your own and stop telling me how to enjoy MY second life. YOU don’t pay MY tier.

    Cat Cotton

  102. IAm Zabelin says:

    @97 … ok, let me amend that (96)… “to the users that create any content of value the reverse is true”

  103. Vint Falken says:

    While you are in full compliance with the usage guidelines described here, you may use the “Second Life” name on your website, as well as the related logos and graphics available at Toolkit, solely in the form described there.

    YOU gave us the fan kit. YOU promoted using ‘Second Life’ and ‘SL’. The fankit content is now on our HD’s and our websites. As far as I’m concerned, this does not go away.

    For blogs that are just about Second Life, this is an easy way to go. But it’s important that the blog name be more prominent than the byline. And if the name uses the words “SL” or “inSL,” it should follow our license for this (or be under a separate written license like the SLED Blog).

    So if your blog is titled ‘my second life’, ‘Ilyas’ Second Life’ or ‘Das Tweedes Leben’, you’re still screwed? Same if your URL contains Second Life or SL without two generic nouns? *sighs*

  104. IAm Zabelin says:

    Yeah, agree 101, if its just a game … for many its a bloody (far too) expensive game!

  105. Ciaran Laval says:

    Why can Information week ignore these guidelines and yet Second Life bloggers who promote your product are threatened with having their accounts terminated? Why are Second Life residents being held to higher standards than the mainstream press? If it’s in marketing material I see your point of making everything correct, if it’s in general conversation I do not and this is ridiculously restrictive. Please grow up and recognise fair use for what it is.

  106. Toy LaFollette says:

    LL will do as they please whether we like it or not but I do see the idiocy of protecting Rome while its burning to the ground.

  107. uh-oh says:

    Wow this is confusing. So if I mention Second Life tm, stand up, sit down, spin on my head and click my heels twice. when typing to some on or in a blog i have to use this? I can see if i am endorsing SL tm, stand up, sit down, spin on my head and click my heels twice.
    having to use it. Or using Second Life tm, stand up, sit down, spin on my head and click my heels twice. as a brand name. Maybe adding this topic about using SL tm, stand up, sit down, spin on my head and click my heels twice. To the tip of the week that is put out.
    I wouldn’t want to get in trouble for using Second life tm, stand up, sit down, spin on my head and click my heels twice. the wrong way.

  108. coventina dalgleish says:

    This has little impact on the experience of second life. Perhaps it would if the game functioned. Day after day of total failure of the services you advertise. Soon it will not matter because sales have been so bad because you can not control your environment that many will be leaving because I/we refuse to expend more hard cash on something that fails to deliver the promised product. Phil stated last year the focus was going to be on fixing the bugs in the game. I have seen no improvement and in fact more have been introduced.

    LINDEN LAB it is time to assign your priority’s your trademark will just be a memory of another failed dot com if you do not.

    Actions do speak much louder than words as demonstrated by this product.

  109. Thili Playfair says:

    *crash into wall of text*

    Fine fine, more words,

    Now how about trying to enforce it instead of making up more stuff that you dont even bother checking up on anyway, i could just quickly mention the “no gambling” rule as one, oh it take me less then 5 min to find a place that has one still, and no its not old at all.

    Report?,
    dont make me laugh, never seen any of my reports ever get a reply or fixed issue and its going on for months , no make that over a year now, only thing that is “fixed” nowadays is just workarounds instead of a fix, quite lame.

    Need a oar?, cause you guys seem to be “rowing” alot from your crowd of people that made SL what it is, and completly deaf to our cries /point jira , sorry that place is a mess and alot of them are months old nothing fixed yet.

  110. Pingback: Greve findada… « Education in virtual/real worlds

  111. Pingback: Linden Lab tries to explain the new trademark policy again… and fails.. — mrtopf.de

  112. Neural says:

    It’s amusing watching Linden Lab™®©(wtf)(bbq) slowly strangle themselves to death with all this sort of sillyness. Keep at it guys, it provides humor while we wait for you to make up the next excuse for the daily teleport/transaction/inventory failures.

  113. BloodDoll Lulu says:

    crazy

  114. Tom says:

    I have seen alot of sites using the official secondlife Logo on their header fot the web page so I understand where LL are coming from but to those wondering about the words like second life SL ect that are used in normal type on a web page be it in blog chatting or general talking in type text you wont have to put a ® after every word unless you use their brand name on products or services like headers ect not in chat type.

  115. R H says:

    @Reality Check Says:

    And to the post about some linden stating “they own all IP addresses”

    IP refers to _I_ntellectual _P_roperty
    not TCP/IP addressing

    sheesh!
    and then you have the temerity to complain about others’ command
    of vocabulary
    That’s Funny™

  116. Pingback: SecondLife - How To Make Money In Second Life » More on Trademarks

  117. Ishtara Rothschild says:

    You forgot one most important point. Quote from http://secondlife.com/corporate/brand/insl/guidelines.php

    “Do not display the inSL logo in or on materials or items that in Linden Lab’s sole opinion: […] Are pornographic or include adult or mature content, or content that is not displayed in a manner suitable for a PG rating […]”

    This is quite a slap in the face for the industry that keeps SL popular and continues to draw new people onto the grid. The same can be said about your new policy regarding classified ads. Quote:

    “You may continue to advertise mature events, services, objects, businesses etc…, but any pictures or text related to any such classified must be PG in nature.”

    It’s a bit tricky, to say the least, to advertise mature wares while meeting PG standards. In more concise words, if you can’t say “penis” or, Quetzovercoatl forbid, show a prim genital, it becomes pretty much impossible to advertize the aforementioned article. Not to mention that the mature flag for classifieds has become utterly pointless now.
    And not to speak of LL’s habit to delete advertisements without a refund – imagine the editorial staff of a magazine would do that, not publish an ad but charge for it. Or to mention LL’s habit to only (overre)act on ARs instead of enforcing the same rules for everyone, which creates an ugly business environment where people can easily get rid of competitors by screaming “their ad shows a nipple!”

    How exactly do you expect SL to become the next stage of the internet without adult content being available and easy to find? Look at the current world-wide web: It became popular through porn, and now that it has turned into a serious business platform, there are more adult websites than ever. Which doesn’t keep any reputable company from creating an internet presence. My guess is that SL owes an even larger part of its popularity to adult entertainment than the 2D internet. Trying to hide what attracts the masses will only lessen the attractivity of this platform to investors, once the user masses have left.

    So, why exactly does even a prim genital in a mature classified ad have to be hidden from the public eye? Perhaps because the adult grid has been turned into a place where everyone (and all ages) can sign up pretty much anonymously and without an age check? Well, iIt’s either Disneyland online or the SL adult grid, you can’t host both on the same servers. Unless you hurry up with the long planned, long overdue and almost forgotten age verification. Any news on that?

  118. Chriz says:

    This is all very well… but to quote your own words:

    “Outside the United States, do not use these trademark notice symbols. Instead, use the appropriate trademark attribution notice, for example: “Second Life and LindeX are trademarks of Linden Research, Inc.”

    So perhaps you need to clarify that for all of us non-American SL ‘citizens’…

    Second Life and LindeX are trademarks of Linden Research, Inc 🙂

  119. coventina dalgleish says:

    I see your legal department is still trying to justify their existence.

    Nice work Lab

    Perhaps if you listened to your customers requests a little more there would be less critical acclaim in the blogs and then salient responses would appear like magic.

    You can judge your success by the quality of information sent to you in these blogs.

    I observe a common theme in the data supplied to you in this forum and it is not at all positive.

    Nothing is BETA after eight years, unless you can not come up with another excuse.

    I have never seen an online game that makes as many updates with the frequency that Linden Lab creates them. Perhaps it is time to go back to the once per week update, at least we would know when to expect it and if it did not occur that would be even better.

    Sorry for the second blog post I normally try to refrain from taking space from others but the condition of the game warrants another response. It is totally frustrating to be totally frustrated everyday with this product. If not for the friends made here I would not bother because the rest of the experience is painful.

  120. Donal Randt says:

    People act like this is the only place in the world that is changing their policy on use of their trademarks. Well guess what? It isn’t. There are changes happening everywhere.

    Linden Research owns the trademark, they can choose who uses it and how it is used. That is what owning the trademark means. They are not compelled in any way to allow anybody to use it. Just the same as you are not compelled to allow somebody to borrow your car simply because they want to.

    And since I have already interrupted this whine-fest I might as well add: How does griping about grid stability have anything to do with Trademark use? And with that – do you people posting in this manner actually think that the people who work on the programming end of things have dropped what they are doing to get involved in the Trademark issues? Or do you think that maybe, just maybe, there are people in the legal department that deal with legal things, and that the programmers and technicians are dealing with programming things? I know its wild and crazy, but maybe it’s just crazy enough to be true?????

    To anyone looking to actually understand the trademark policy, it is pretty simple as stated in this blog. But then again, so was the first one. To the rest – let the whining continue…..

  121. @6 Cave art like you have would be regarded as pastiche, or parody, and exempt therefore, as it falls under Fair Use, much like Andy Warhol used the Campbell’s soup tin in a painting.

    @ 84 and 105 Use in news reporting is a Fair Use example, otherwise news reports would have a terrible time every time they mentioned a company and product.

    In the same vein, use in speech is allowed, and that includes chat, IMs, forums, and comments on blogs. You don’t after all, say to your bf/gf “I’m going to get a Coke® from the fridge.” So actually, in commenting on forums or blogs, you don’t need to bother with marks at all.

    The blog here is well covered by LL themselves and TM ownership pretty obvious. On your own web site or blog, as the rules state, if you are in the US, you need to add the marks just to the first or most prominent occurrence, plus the disclaimer notice. If you are outside the US, you do not put the marks (mostly because such trademarks have not yet been granted, where applied for), just the disclaimer notice, which would normally be a small disclaimer notice at the foot of the main page, like you see on a lot of sites.

    Basically TM is to protect the company, ie to stop people associating themselves, or passing off a similar product, or implying endorsement from LL. But only for a specific example. eg if you search the EU trademark database, you will find a lot of companies with the trademark Linden, eg Linden Foods, so if you sell food, you are breaking theirs, if you are selling a metaverse, then it will be Linden Labs’.

    You can also use TMs as verbs, adverbs or adjectives without marks, so saying Lindened, is okay, as in the sense of attempting to fix something and making it worse. So you hoovered the carpet, or sellotaped it together are allowable uses.

    It just requires a bit of common sense. Like copyright. If it is a news report, for research, or education, you can use parts, but you can’t copy it for personal use or for commerce. Thus, you can say Second Life is pretty crappy atm, because that is fair comment on a blog like this, and although disparaging, true at this point in time. If Linden Research Inc bothered to fix it, then it would no longer apply, but it seems they are more interested in protecting their IP, ignoring that of residents, and avoiding fixing what residents have been asking to be fixed for over a year, in favour of yet more shinies overloading the system.

    To be honest, I’m not sure why they are bothering, since Second Life is becoming a joke everywhere – the metaverse that used to work™.

    SL RIP. Oh, right, yesterday was the Day of Remembrance, not that it was working most of the day yet again…

  122. Laura, you need to take care when you make statements like this: “The TOS governs your relationship with Linden Lab and your use of the Second Life services. Your relationship with us includes how you use our trademarks–both inworld and outside of Second Life.”

    Our TOS relationship with Linden Lab starts and ends on your platform. You do not have the right or the ability to police the internet. If you are going to take action outside of the platform than that should be through RL channels, as Robin indicated in her office hours.

    Moreover, how does Linden Lab presume to establish identity (virtual or otherwise) outside of their own domain? You can hold “Salome Strangelove” to task for what happens in-world because it is an account I hold with you on your platform. But anyone on the web can do whatever they like and go around calling themselves Salome Strangelove and I have no say in the matter. How exactly do you plan to determine if John Smith in SL is John Smith on some random website?

    Just like this new trademark policy runs the risk of invalidating itself for over-reaching, so does the area of the TOS that addresses it. Most of us blog about SL because we’ve identified with it and remain, on some level, devoted to its longevity and development. But, if you want the business community of SL to take you seriously, and responsible residents to adhere to policies, then you need to get yourselves on the same page. Preferably one that clearly explains policies you can reasonably enforce.

  123. Folks, understand that the owners of a trademark _must_ protect that trademark or risk losing it. Just exactly how repressive is it that they ask that we users of their service do them the courtesy of honoring their legal rights (by using (R) or (TM) where required (don’t know how to easily enter the symbols in a blog comment)).

    With the recent spate of Intellectual Property theft well publicized in world, we should be cogniscent of the need for them to protect theirs.

    JBS

  124. Alvi Halderman says:

    Lol pretty strange the getafirst life website…………
    i hope i wont need to say Linden Lab™®© or Second Life™®©
    could be boring finding out how to make that simbols!

    ol

  125. Pingback: More of The Same on Trademarks | VintFalken.com

  126. Oh – and a point I forgot a moment ago, I’m imagine the people working on the legal issues, logo licensing, and trademark issues are a different set from those working to fix issues in the service. I don’t know about you, but I don’t want trademark experts touching the code! I doubt we want the programmers doing the legal research. If the Linden’s are like most other corporations, they have people that specialize and concentrate in their areas. If they don’t – that might explain a lot (kidding).

    JBS

  127. Good Grief says:

    well,,, let me tell you… it is interesting to read all of these comments… but you are all arranging deck chairs on the Titanic… none of this will ever matter to anyone if SL is not a highly reliable product… no person no company will ever care about what happens here… SL will become an HBS case study for how insular techie nerds are always doomed to fail… protection of the SL brand is a waste of time… on this particular blog you are all engaging in the lawyers gambit… let’s rack up some billable hours while we still can… sorry but unless senior management wakes up (not likely given the trajectory) this whole exercise will just become a case study in how now to do it. Sorry SL’ers but you are wasting your time.

  128. nika talaj says:

    If folks want to continue discussion after comments close, see forum thread: http://forums.secondlife.com/showthread.php?t=254075

    @lauraplinden: There still seems to be confusion, I see some residents throwing up their hands in despair here. The problem with sending questions to your trademark team is that the answers are not shared publicly, so no learning takes place.

    May I suggest that a Linden start a “Trademark Q&A” thread in the RA section of the forums, and answer some specific questions about resident’s websites/businesses for a few days? If the community sees LL’s reasoning in action in specific real world cases, I think it might help. Questions that are too complex to be answered in that venue could simply be referred to tm-questions as above.

    The forums are a fairly safe place for this, being unsearchable by Google etc., and postable only by payment-info-on-file residents.

  129. Tasman Perth says:

    Whats going on here, I believe, is the normal Linden Lab employees, who have normal human common sense, are starting to pay too much attention to the “village idiots”, better known as lawyers, who infest too many otherwise good companies. I suspect its gonna get worse before it gets better….

  130. Kit Meredith says:

    @88 – LauraP, thanks for responding to my question. I think your efforts to engage the community in this way – assuming it continues into the future – will do a lot to heal the discord caused by the branding policy announcement. 🙂

    No, the discussion with Robin wasn’t over third parties infringing Resident content on external sites. The discussion last week was directly on the branding policy and the fact that compliance with the guidelines had been explicitly written into the ToS as Section 4.4. I know that Robin doesn’t like us quoting her from office hours, so I won’t post the chat log, but to paraphrase she told us that Linden Lab had no intention of banning anyone for infringing its trademarks – according to her, any infringement would be dealt with through RL channels (presumably the courts). That sounds completely different than what you’re saying now.

    If that policy has changed, so be it, but we need that to be said to us explicitly, and the Lindens need to speak with a consistent voice on this. I would like to find a time that the two of us, Gwyn if she’ll join us, and Robin can sit down so that we can make sure everyone is on the same page.

    I don’t have a problem with Linden Lab protecting its trademarks within the bounds of the law. I also don’t have a problem with policy changes so long as there isn’t detrimental reliance by residents on the old policy. But because there is legal liability potentially riding on this, Linden Lab needs to be as explicit as possible in communicating things. Getting different messages from different Lindens isn’t helping that.

    Thanks again.

  131. Your Nosey Neighbor says:

    It’s sickening how those who regularly bash LL on 3rd party forums and blogs are actually expecting to be “grandfathered” in or may be waiting on some exception letter to “get out of jail free”.

    What part of “strategic for business” don’t people understand?

    If you are not a part of the solution, then you are a part of the problem and I wouldn’t expect LL to grant any type of exception for sites that have users that regularly bash LL or make SL look unprofessional.

    Have fun thinking up new domain names!

  132. IAm Zabelin says:

    Unfortunately this is even a bigger slap in our faces – in that LL have done nothing about the IP theft in-world, since they made written promises YEARS ago, when business owners shut up shops and walked out.

    Yet as soon as a perceived need arises to think about protecting their trademark, they throw everything at it, and still do nothing to look after their users rights and investments … who after all created and paid for it all.

    _________________________________

    LAURAP LINDEN … please stand up and let us know when IP theft office hours are ?
    And also who is in charge of resolving the out-of-control IP theft issues?

    Also, why is LL is sitting back allowing thief’s to copy our content? instead of piling pressure on, and implementing anti-theft strategies.

    Why is it of such little importance that it doesn’t even warrant actions?

  133. Alicia Roeth says:

    Incredible. Never have i seen such a lengthy explanatory post. Perhaps a Linden (can I actually type Linden…ooops did it again) could take the time to answer some of the issues that cause real concern. Issues which have been around for the 18mths I have been part of this “game”. This is an incredible and blatant instance (and by far the first) od Linden Lab publicly stating they are concerened with themselves first and foremost and NOT their paying customers.

    Disgusted so much time has been spent on this.

  134. sweet primrose says:

    Has Linden Labs trademarked “Transaction Failure”? 😀

  135. Renee Faulds says:

    No but they are seriously working on trademarking “We ran everybody out of business”.

    PHIL – Where is your 2/3rd’s of my $54,000 monthly tier ??

    BORKED BORKED BORKED

    If you had any poseballs Phil you’d pay up – seeing how this is now being blogged about else where that you have no poseballs..

    Renee Faulds

  136. Pingback: Nominative Fair Use « Sean Heying’s Blog

  137. Jazzman says:

    #’s 19 and 28

    I prefer to think of it not as a game, more like a platform, but really like a cedar deck with dryrot.
    I’m truly surprised there are Lindens not working on stability 8-|

  138. Alexander Regent says:

    hmmmm….I wonder if “Suckond Life” is trademarked? (patent pending, patent pending, patent pending)

    It works on soooo many different levels….don’t cha think? 😛

  139. Nyte Caligari says:

    This has probably been said over and over here… however….

    Did you guys really just post that? Transactions have been failing daily, multiple time daily, hourly, etc. And… we’re discussing trademarks? I do understand the need and importance for trademarks, but really, don’t you think your priorities are a bit off here?

  140. Kandy Tomorrow says:

    Frankly, if I were Linden Lab™©®, I wouldn’t want to be associated with the name Second Life™©® after how horrendous it’s been the past week. Solution to the bloggers and press though, easiest way to avoid all these new rules is to just not mention Second Life™©® altogether….

    [Second Life™©® is a registered trademark of Linden Lab™©® and any use of the Second Life™©® and Linden Lab™©® trademarks used here is not to be construed as representing the views of Linden Lab™©®]

  141. Kula Anatine says:

    why cant we post or use the trademark in a non service or product way like blogs or fansites dedicated to Second life ® ™ noun. and of course people would know if something was LL or not yet again LLs concept of most people made clear. Second life ® ™ noun Second life ® ™ noun Second life ® ™ noun Second life ® ™ noun Second life ® ™ noun Second life ® ™ noun Second life ® ™ noun Second life ® ™ noun Second life ® ™ noun Second life ® ™ noun Second life ® ™ noun People dont forget when you chat inwould dont get caught with out using a noun of trademark after saying of referring to Second life ® ™ noun

  142. My business partners(we have 4 islands and others business) was banned because some Alter, report that she have no age to be in sl…she have 35 years old!!!!!!!!…LindenLab dont accept portuguese BI, only passport…she have no passport… how about to fix that things ?

    Thanks a lot.

  143. her name is Violeta Yakan.

  144. U M says:

    Questen is what about older items that breaks Copyright rules? If we have them in our inventory?

  145. U M says:

    I read and reread “9. How is it that Linden Lab can update its trademark policy? And why can’t Residents be “grandfathered” in under the earlier policies?”

    This is so fuzzy and doesnt point out what is breaking rules and whats not. PLEASE SPEAK ENGLISH or atleast write it in different languges so people can understand this correctly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  146. sirhc DeSantis says:

    OK that seems clearer. Well in terms of what we are talking anyway (you know who I mean lol)

  147. Winter Ventura says:

    I will no longer refer to “Second Life” in my blog posts. That will simply solve all issues. If we all do this, then “the videogame maintained by the company in San Francisco” will begin to lose search relevance.

    Personally, I like that we can comply with their trademark rules, by simply adding 2 words.

    I can think of two words right now.

  148. Tiny Mind says:

    With all these Grid-performance ‘issues’ of late, I think the NEW name will soon one day be: “The Game formerly-known as Second Life.”

    Tiny it up!

  149. uh-oh says:

    “So, why exactly does even a prim genital in a mature classified ad have to be hidden from the public eye? Perhaps because the adult grid has been turned into a place where everyone (and all ages) can sign up pretty much anonymously and without an age check? Well, iIt’s either Disneyland online or the SL adult grid, you can’t host both on the same servers. Unless you hurry up with the long planned, long overdue and almost forgotten age verification. Any news on that?”
    The new TOS update said that they know underage kids are out here and you have to agree to that before you logged in. Now if you get caught cybering with a underage kid you cannot claim it is an adult site in court. Or if you beat up some kid in RP then it’s some kind of assault on a minor? kind of messed up if you ask me.
    They are even raising the build limit to 4000 meters. yet the the IDV ban lines only go up 50m. To top it off they claim they are only a service and not responsible for residents material. the only way to stay out of legal trouble is to act like the whole grid is PG.
    At least if LL had age verification at login you can prove the kid lied and stole another persons ID to log in.
    I think the IDV is nothing but a PR stunt to cover their own hind ends.
    I think this new TOS update really made a mess of things.

  150. Carl Metropolitan says:

    Your IP lawyers are giving you poorly thought out advice regarding incorporation of your new trademark policy into the Terms of Service. Especially in regards to recommendations that you attempt to apply the policy to user’s activities outside of Second Life.

    What you are being advised to do is of questionable legality (as the SL ToS could easily–again–be found to be a “contract of adhesion), but more importantly is a potential public relations fiasco.

    I urge you to reconsider. Or at least talk to some non-IP lawyers.

  151. Renee Faulds says:

    3 weeks of BORKED BORKED BORKED Phil.

    You promise to bring stability is also BORKED.

    I waiting for you to cough up your 2/3rd’s of my monthly land tiers Phil !

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