1.19.1 Office Hours- 4 HOURS of fun!

So, yesterday’s office hours were attended by over 100 Residents! This marathon session lasted nearly 4 Hours and was a great chance to speak with many of you. I want to run over some of the issues discussed and provide you all with the transcript…

For starters, if you click on the image below you’ll see the general agenda we followed:

We began with a breakdown of some of the key issues and facts we want you to know. Thankfully, one of the biggest points- Graphics Preferences and how to effectively use them -is covered in GREAT DETAIL in Torley’s video tutorial this week. Thanks Torley!

I then opened the floor to questions- I think we answered over 60!

Most centered around several key topics:

  • How Is Old Hardware Affected by WindLight?
  • Crashes
  • Memory Leaks
  • Skirts disappearing
  • New Features
  • Avatar Impostors/Quality
  • Open Source Code

It is interesting to note that, even though the scale of this meeting was much larger than our previous office hours, the questions were still nearly identical – obviously means these issues are important to you. (And yes, we’re now in a stability development phase- which means we know it and we’re heeding it!) Thankfully though, gone were all the questions of when Glow will be scriptable – all thanks to 1.20 RC ๐Ÿ˜‰

However, because the issues are well known and we addressed them from every possible angle in these hours, I’ve decided to NOT hold these again at different times. Before you attack this notion, these are the reasons:

  • These 4 hours, combined with our previous hours, have shown that the topics are really limited to about 6 core issues. 99% of our questions are repetitions, and we’ve answered them many times.
  • As a result, please see the transcript below. It will undoubtedly cover your interest points.
  • The Residents in attendance were extremely well behaved, but, nonetheless, it was a strain to keep such large office hours going – chat was delayed with so many Residents and, as we didn’t want to ignore anyone, we processed a LOT of questions (and many duplicates).

So, moral of the story is- we’ve heard pretty much everything from every angle at this point- some questions have solutions (see transcripts), some questions don’t (ditto), and some just really let us know how painful the stability issues are to you (ditto thricely ๐Ÿ™‚ )

You’ll notice there are two main communication directions in here:

  • Problems you’re having where we communicate to you how to solve them
  • Problems and trends you’re seeing where you communicate to us how we need to shape up

So the responsibility on our end is to LISTEN UP, and on your end to read the transcript, watch the tutorials, and read the knowledgebase. Either your problem has a solution, or we’ll eventually get to it, I promise!

And so, without further ado:

The Transcript (Cleaned up and formatted, thanks to Kevin Susenko!)

The Transcript’s home on our usual WL Office Hour page

The Unedited/Raw Transcript

Thanks to all the Residents who attended these, and to my fellow Lindens BigPapi, Runitai, Zen, and Brad for helping out with this!

This entry was posted in -Miscellaneous, Announcements & News, Bugs & Fixes, Community, Customer Service, Development, New Releases, Resident Experience. Bookmark the permalink.

146 Responses to 1.19.1 Office Hours- 4 HOURS of fun!

  1. Cappy Frantisek says:

    This is the first transcript of anything that I have actually read. Just a thought for future transcripts, edit them to remove all the “ao off” and other nonesense, then post. Would help to actually garner some useful information of the meetings. Thanks in advance!

  2. Marianne McCann says:

    I was there. I missed the fun part. I jes kept hearin’ people shouting, an other people shouting about the people shouting ๐Ÿ™‚

  3. Pastrami Linden says:

    @1 – Yeah, to be honest- I wanted to get this out ASAP. If anyone cares to edit it and post somewhere, I can update- but man, that’s a LOT of text to process for a quick turn around ๐Ÿ˜‰

  4. Raven Primeau says:

    Hours of fun! How absolutely unthinkingly crass of you! I cant even log in and you put happy feely fricking blog posts out to rub it in. I pay you US$88.13 a month Land tier and this is the service you provide me???????

    You really should get your priorities right and stop jangling the leashes of your residents

    Another fat 0/10 for tact and diplomacy for Linden labs as I look forward to a wrecked weekend on SL

    8000M2 of land anyone?

  5. Angelic Greenwood says:

    I didn’t attend the meeting. Didn’t know when it was, and at the time where I was actually LOOKING for it, the search was down.

    My suggestion? Do your updates at the same time everyday, and send an in-world message out, that way everyone knows and you won’t have so many people yelling at you.

    Your downtimes are very disorganized and yeah, it will tick alot of people off. They are bringing economy into this and have a right to know when…and not the type of when where you post a blog “We’re bringing the regions down NOW! Bwahahahaha!”, but a “We will be bringing down all regions for bug fixes and updates on the 10th at 2pm SLT, the downtime will be an ESTIMATED 2 hours.”

    I play an MMORPG and this is how they communicate it to us, and it’s very helpful. Noted, you will still have people griping, but the griping will be much lessened.

  6. Pastrami, there are several wiki-fier scripts out there to auto-convert chat logs to a more wik-friendly format. http://www.treekyomoon.com/wikifier.htm for example.

  7. Sausage Hax says:

    @4 So Linden Lab should halt important office hours, in which they get the opportunity to talk to people about problems and issues they are having, just to fix your own problem first?

  8. Raven Primeau says:

    1600m2 of land for sale I meant, me thinks its time to save my $s and join the freeloaders. Now I see logins are closed………sighs

  9. Ener Hax says:

    Hi Pastrami! I wanted to say thanks for all you do. You handed out some unpopular news this week and a bunch of peeps jumped on you. Well I know that decisions are not carried out without a lot of consideration, anguish, and input from experts. So I just wanted to say how much I appreciate what you, and all of LL, does for me.

    Who knew that announcing lower costs was so bad? *i sure hope gas goes way up this summer, that would be great* =p

  10. Raven Primeau says:

    No not for me…for all have you tried to log in?

    They could choose a better time to post it seeing as they just throttled services then closed logins…. besides office hours for LL arent office hours for everyone Sausage dear heart

  11. Jenna Burger says:

    So, thatยดs your Idea of fun? Itยดs another weekend an again I canยดt log in. Very Funny…One Bug after another….every weekend the same….yeah Lindens you are funny. You and your circus clown troop on the servers

  12. Michel says:

    Since you can’t comment on the “Temporarily Reduced Services In World” due to censorship (there’s no other way around it, face it)m I have to do it here… You should announce those cuts BEFORE you do them, especially the suspenssion of logins, since it was you who spread the idea that re-logging sometimes is enough to solve things… I couldn’t TP, and logged out to try and see if that would fix it; surprise, I can’t login again… Especially you should do that since, it seems, everytime you reduce any sercice, that triggers another problem that escalates and then you have to suspend the service completelly in the end… :S

  13. hmr1000 says:

    From the snippets that I heard from yesterdays meeting, one thing was abundantly clear, you are operating under the assumption that when you change code in one area of the program, for instance viewers that is all that is changed. That is a false assumption that you should have learndd the first time you began programming, when you change one thing in a program you run the possibility of effecting tings all over the program, so simply not addressing problems like water physics, or air physics because you do not deal with that code does not speak to the problem that you have made so many basic changes in the sl program lately that you really do not have a clue what is causing the problems we are now experiencing, and apparently as long as those problems cannot be attributed directly to you you do not care to consider them. My question is, is there anyone in SL looking at the problem as a whole and trying to fix it, and if so why are you continuing to make piecemeal changes in the program that only add to the clutter and make addressing the overall problem more difficult.

  14. Angelic Greenwood says:

    Join the freeloaders eh?

    I may rent an apartment for 900 a week that I work at a job for, but I can tell you, I’d rather do that than pay 90 bucks a month for a tier of land.

    I can think of better things to spend 90 bucks on….but to each his own I suppose.

    i’m still on SL and nothin’s goin on. Really, y’all aren’t missin’ out. Can’t get a notecard, can’t look at groups or profiles, can’t TP or search. I’m just listening to the music and pretty much standing here doing nothing, as the event I’m supposed to be greeting at is obviously not going to be happening now.

  15. Shanie says:

    too bad for me- tried to purchase linden via the exchange right as services were being disabled. No linden received but paypal account was charged…nice ๐Ÿ˜ฆ

  16. jane says:

    It seems that you was listening better in that meeting then in earlier meetings (this affects in this case only meetings in general and not specific THIS meeting). So im hopeful that future releases would be less problematically. For me personally important for such meetings in the future is, that they go in a lesser chaotic behaviour. Think over my decision for future meetings, if its not better to collect the most important issues from residents (as you posted above pastrami), then to post them here so that at upcoming meetings residents and lindens are prepared what they ask and what they have for important questions – for both sides. If you want to post that issues also inworld, just use a message board for it.
    Personally i think, people who didnt switch off their a/o BEFORE the meetings starts has nothing understanded or didnt think well.
    It seems that SL has a bit from a democracy, so the usual way in democratic “nations” at meetings is that the governors first speak and their residents after ask questions – sometimes such meetings appear like a endless turning cicle :O also important to find a solution how meetings will going on, so that all can save time and emotions.

  17. Paddy Wright says:

    Totally off subject!…but this is the only way I can vent!…has LL gone mad? [12:50 PM Pacific] In addition to the reduction of services outlined below, Operations will be immediately disabling the following services for at least 30 minutes:

    In-world transactions,
    Portions of Website functionality, including access to account pages.
    Weโ€™ll keep you updated every 30 minutes at most on this, and announce a return to service ASAP

  18. Paddy Wright says:

    whats this about?

  19. Mirella Dallagio says:

    Hours of fun ???
    The heart of SL services is disabled

    Your 1.19.1 viewer sucks. No, they aren’t the sliders. 1.19.0 worked well, and this drops my framerate below the unity. Oh, I also tried dazzle. Awesome, in the night scenes, to have all that DAMN BRIGHT items around. Yes, we missed also the thick windows borders and large buttons, to clutter more the interface.

    People, what the hell are you doing, honestly, except trying to force us to abandon you ?

    4 hours of fun ?
    Not at all

  20. Taff Nouvelle says:

    (mis)QUOTE from LL.
    In order to increase overall stability of the grid today during peak usage hours, our operations team has disabled SL.

  21. jane says:

    i forget, the next time if you make such a long meeting, ill bring you a cozy sofa and some drinks ๐Ÿ˜‰ ๐Ÿ˜€

  22. Paddy Wright says:

    have you Lindens shut down sl? If so why?

  23. Rowan Villiers says:

    I’m as pissed as the rest of you about disabled logins; and misxed messages (like the “relog to fix” and SURPRISE!! no logins for YOU) but I have a question.. is anyone else seeing invisible prims? Of course, I don’t have “see invisible” on… and I’m seeing ALOT of things that I shouldn’t. Red overlay on things is the biggest problem. Any thoughts on how to fix that or am I screwed?

  24. Anonymous says:

    You know what’s really fun? Paying thousands of USD a year for a service that does not allow you to login. ONLY when LL sees fit will they grant the right to log back in. This is shameful. It is becoming quite apparent that this service has it’s priorities in the wrong place…
    Let’s see.. Someone recently said something to the fact that LL will not throttle the logins of free users (instead, they throttle ALL users(me scratches his head inquisitively)). PLEASE, hire people who KNOW how to manage a game platform. I REALLY don’t appreciate being told when I can and can’t login when I pay LL up to 2750 USD per year to access this service……..

  25. CC says:

    how freakin long is it gona take to get these damn issue in order…. well over a month now of these daily issues JUST FIX IT ALREADY get off ur butts and FIX It take the game down for a few days JUST FIX IT ALREADY we paying ALOT OF MONEY for this CRAPPY SERVICE

  26. Rowan Villiers says:

    Oh yeah, and can anyone scroll in the Search box? Cuz I haven’t been able to for days.

  27. jane says:

    I think the Lindens are not happy with us, but they must remember if they bother residents again they will leave SL and LL is lose moneys and mind power. How did you want fix problems if nobody is there who told you what problems are?

  28. TC says:

    disabling services to prevent them from getting broken is very cynical.

  29. Michel says:

    My BF logged in, and I couldn’t TP to where he is. He sent me a Tp, but that didn’t work. LL people always say to relog, that that helps usually, so I do, I log out. I try to log in, and SURPRISE!, loggins disabled.. As I said before, announce such things BEFORE, B-E-F-O-R-E, PREVIOUS TO, IN ADVANCE TO, EARLIER, AHEAD OF (any other synonymous I might have missed?) doing it… My BF has limited computer time at this time of the day, which means that, for sure, I’m gonna miss this login session of his. And on a weekend, again… FUN!!!

  30. Angelic Greenwood says:

    Thanks LL, for telling us something WE ALREADY KNEW.

    People were unable to log in before you even updated your blog saying that we would be unable to do so.

    I’m glad I don’t give you guys my money. People that ARE giving you money should be refunded for the crap they get in return to be perfectly honest. The only reason I keep jumping on SL is because when it’s actually working, it’s fun, and because it’s free. I would NOT pay any money to use this piece of junk. You’d have to pay me.

    Yeah, I’m starting to get mad, yeah, it’s off-topic, but I guess you should turn on your comments on the relevant topics, huh?

    One piece of advice for you, LL….you’d better learn how to get more organized about how you communicate region restarts, grids down, updates taking place, or you’re going to lose alot of your revenue that paying customers were giving you. People aren’t going to pay for stuff they can’t use half the time.

  31. Paddy Wright says:

    So we cant even log in?…..mmmm is this only us basic accounts?

  32. Silent Hammerer says:

    I apolozize vor the inapropriate topic but:
    Closing logins when at the same time relogging is a main error recovery stategy is, at least, a funny idea.
    I learned to read the blog ahead of relogging in the future.

  33. I saw the disappearing skirt bug in an especially funny context… we were at a seminar about taxes for Second Life residents… led by a female accountant avi who was dressed in a very elegant tweed suit… sans skirt. Luckily she did have underwear on.

    BTW, most of us Yanks can just use US$ cash flow…. Linden $ cashed out into US $ minus the US$ used to buy the Linden Bucks equals our taxable income. Which for 99% of us is much less than zero. (If your RL avi uses real money instead of BushBucks because you are in the Euro zone, you have to deal with VAT.)

  34. CC says:

    shutting off the ability for people to purchase in game…….. what are you trying to do KILL OFF the rest of business thats left in SL??????? give you bloody heads a shake lindens we are trying to run a BUSINESS we need people shopping to pay our BLOODY tiers that you charge us… this money does not just grow on virtual trees turn back on the ability to purchase your killing our business 4 damn weeks of this now

  35. Anonymous says:

    @ Paddy
    No; I am premium and cannot login either ๐Ÿ˜‰

  36. Tania says:

    yipee the weekend again, do LL do every thing at the weekend or are you showing us your best side.

    may be time for a up grade popcorn and dvd`s, catch you later maid in america.

  37. #31 I think it is everyone, cause Im a premium account with 40 sims and cant get in either.

  38. Huck says:

    [quote] Weโ€™ll keep you updated every 30 minutes at most on this…[/quote]

    So they said 34 minutes ago LMAO

  39. Anonymous says:


    But LL will NOT hesitate to take our tiers in a flat second ๐Ÿ˜‰ ROTFLMAO

  40. Angelic Greenwood says:

    You people seriously need to consider hiring people from Blizzard or SOE….who run MMOs and have to deal with similar issues. They could show you a thing or two about sending in-game messages to all the avatars announcing a region logoff.

    Really…you all have a bunch of monkeys working on this or what?

  41. Anonymous says:

    @ Angelic

    Have you ever seen the SL ™ homepage when the grid is down? It’s pictures of apes banging on things with bones…LMAO (How right you were ๐Ÿ˜‰

  42. Rowan Villiers says:

    IF the Lindens want people to take SL seriously as a place to run a business, then they should provide the same type of service that any business would be expected to provide. Shutting things down with no warning is NOT the way a business would be run; at least, not a business that expected to continue to exist. Therefore, I don’t believe this is a planned outage of any kind, but rather, that they would prefer to look like rude a-holes than admit something happened out of their control. I work for a cell provider and we say the same crap “updates” and “scheduled maintenence” are ways we cover for the fact that something messed up and we dont’ know why. Personally I would have a lot more respect for honesty. Just tell us that something’s wrong and you’re working on it, dont’ make it look like you did it on purpose. It’s alot easier to take.

  43. Kittrannia Cassini says:

    OMG..I gave up trying to read that transcript..please edit it next time.

  44. muza says:

    why must update …

  45. Raven Primeau says:

    Rowan honey try ctl+alt+T to turn hidden items on/off

  46. CC says:

    lol @40 i wish it was monkey at least then things would get fixed instead we have a bunch of incompetent lackies sitting at there desks wondering what they should work on today instead of fixing whats broken it should not take over a month to fix this issue they wait til everyone is furious and spitting nails before they wake up and see we are not gonna put up with this crap anymore

  47. Angelic Greenwood says:

    @ 41 Yeah I know right? LOL

    Man…I bet those free online MMOs are running better than this is. Need to check one of em out while I have the time…not like SL is up anyway. ๐Ÿ™‚

  48. Keiko Rau says:

    I crashed just before the logins were shut off, and now I cant get back in, meanwhile the grid is awash with free accounts. Am I not paying enough? Tell me why I should pay LL US$195 a month to be shut out of the system while free accounts are online and are the bulk of the online users?

    This is a slap in the face to your paying customers. The blog promised an update in 30 minutes at the most. Its been 40 minutes since that was posted.

    … and its not PORTIONs of the web site that are down, its the WHOLE web site. No support, no grid-status, nothing. just the blog, with no updates.

    Are you trying to drive your paying customers away? You’re doing a great job!

  49. Raven Primeau says:

    if LL want to throttle something, throttle the damn camping/traffic bots and give SL back to the living

  50. Angelic Greenwood says:

    Nope, not true Keiko. I’m a free account, I can’t log in. Nobody can, they shut it down for everyone.

    I know what it is. In the commotion of the monkeys smacking the computers, a very large herd of giraffes came charging in and smashed the whole LL Office to hell….

    They’re out having some Krispy Kremes, they’re not fixin’ jack.

  51. Mike1 Shepherd says:

    In all fairness to Pastrami, he did answer all of our “Viewer” related questions.

    In all honesty it was about 3 hours of hearing, “That’s someone else’s department.

    The core problems still exist and Pastrami gets blasted because he is one of the few lindens willing to talk about the problems (with just his segment of it).

    Bottom line, paying lots of tier to not use this system on weekends. Last weekend down for over half the weekend and This Friday afternoon is already off to a rousing start, came home and can’t log on again. Who cares about the viewer if you can’t log onto the system? Naturally that blog post is closed.

    Pastrami since you seem to be one of the few Lindens who will speak on any topic. Why don’t you guys do what you did for the concierge folks a few weeks back. Open up several sims and put lindens from all disciplines in it and let us ask them questions.

    Actually at this point most of us would settle for hanging Linden heads on our walls like Leos.

    IF I sound bitter it’s from working 5 days a week in RL to support a business in SL that can’t be open on weekends.

    BTW one last question.

    If the system is unavailable on weekends and L$ transactions are down, how come the $ spent tab keeps showing 1M plus? Are you seriously expecting us to believe that with the system down for most of last weekend and transactions down more than that, that the system still stayed over a million L$?

  52. Rowan Villiers says:

    LOL! I knew someone was going to say that. That’s why I specifically said I didn’t have “see invisible” on. I use that alot actually, and it would cause my own av to be a red mess. No, this is only invisible overlays on things like pictures and signs, my security system, and random other objects. Very odd.

  53. Cat Lassally says:

    ‘Thanks for your patience’. Will you PLEASE stop saying that on blog announcements that tell us we once again can’t use the service we pay for? I’m not patient, I’m really mad at you! Instead will you just apologize for the awful service you provide?

  54. Michel says:

    “Please be patient when logging in over the next few minutes. As is the case after any full restart, the login queues will be congested. Frustrating though this has been, please try to avoid the temptation to cancel and restart your login, and just ride the process out to keep your place in the queue.”

    Especially when everytime you try to login the program freezes up or you get a “Login Failed” message…


  55. yuriko nishi says:

    did i get that right? you disable half of the functions, (logins too) to give us a better experience? what experience when we cant log in?

    you linden guys are really funny ๐Ÿ˜€

  56. Lars Donardson says:

    Stop that free account vs. paid account crap people.

    Most of you sim owners make the money to pay the tiers off ppl tht have choosen to keep free accounts and rent land on private sims.

    Shut the free accounts out and see who pays your tiers!

  57. Angelic Greenwood says:

    Yeah…really. I’m sorry, but after one of these spouts where you disable everything to give us a better experience, when I finally am able to get back in, I don’t notice anything different. It alls runs the same as it always has…like crap with slightly prettier water. Yay…. /throws confetti.

  58. JR Breed says:

    You can tell Teeple Linden that he forgot to add everything else to his list on his blog post. Does he even play secondlife? The game is unplayable. I don’t know how you guys can sleep at night. I guess I can be thankful I can stare at the pretty clouds and blue skies of in SL although its a dark and stormy one. I pay to play and Im getting cheated by all these freebie players making it so nobody can play.

  59. Rowan Villiers says:

    I am “in queue”; we’ll see.

  60. Mel says:

    I have learned that to clean up a transcript, it usually takes about an hour plus the lenght of the meeting..so I can see why you dont want to take the time. To synopsize it, it is a bit shorter but still takes a long time. I am glad you took the time to listen. I am not surprised the meeting went that way…they always do. Right now I am just concerned about all the down time over the last week..whether because of changes in SL or outside of it…it is not lending to any dependable time in SL at all.

  61. Taff Nouvelle says:

    @52 try Ctrl + N, beacons always on.

  62. Angelic Greenwood says:

    @ 58 Freebie players making it that way? Enlighten me please.

  63. SongbirdClone Writer says:

    I missed this meeting, but it looks like not much has been accomplished from it. I think Linden Labs should reimburse premium customers for all the down time. When you pay for service it is not unreasonable to expect service. If this was any other sort of business the heads of the company or management would be fired. Linden Labs seems to be very disorganized. This is not a problem with staff, but with their supervisors and CEO.

  64. Raven Primeau says:

    Sorry Rowan honey my minds elsewhere ATM …….imagining painful ways of extracting retribution for this debacle called SL at the moment so I didnt read all your post….probably why I faied so many exams too when younger LOL

    I guess you have to put your problem down to the wonders of SL

  65. Anonymous says:

    @ Rowan
    It did the same thing to me; turn a whole bunch of my poseballs 100% transparent. Going thru and setting to 0 fixed it ๐Ÿ˜‰ LMAO

  66. Miguel says:

    OH! I CAN RANT HERE! ๐Ÿ˜€ i love the running man on this post, is that your Tech Staff picture??? ๐Ÿ˜€

  67. Bowfluv says:

    I am baffled . .no login .. friends are in …how they get there

  68. Shanie says:

    I have noticed red property lines are always on by default with the new viewer-when i am able to log in that is

    ctrl+alt+shift+p turns them off

  69. zolen giano says:

    Looks like the router’s syncronizing protocols that connects the bandwidth multilplexer modulator to the whizbang output controller with the thingamado that interfaces with the thingamajob that drops the little net on the mouse broke again.

  70. Raven Primeau says:

    Miguel, they edited out the 40,00 angry *residents* chasing him with sticks

  71. Raven Primeau says:

    Nah the cleaner unplugged the server to vacuum the office

  72. Laura Flintlock says:

    Michel’s right; closing the comments on the proper page is nothing more than censorship. But then we know that despite Lindens’ cheery public face, their customer care manual is kept hanging up in the toilet and is down to its last quarter-inch of page, so damn protocol and here we go on this page instead.

    Well, here we are again, and SL has had the plug pulled on it at the start of the weekend. Running a business apart, a lot of us are trying to organise stuff for Relay for Life and this (now customary) level of “service” is NOT helping at all. I look forward to hearing how much Lindens are donating to the cause.

    Linden, I know I’m not the first to say this and won’t be the last, but you are running this business ass-about-face. Stop filling SL with gadgets we didn’t ask for; GET THE PRODUCT TO WORK FIRST! Expecting people to part with money for something that doesn’t work is treating your customers as if they are stupid and this may come to you as a surprise but customers don’t like that. They want results, not a flashy smiling press statement.

    BTW Did Linden design the baggage handling system at Heathrow, as well? *snerk*

  73. Paddy Wright says:

    Is there at least one Linden out there who is brave enough to talk to us commoners?….what is going on?

  74. Paddy Wright says:

    where is Sindwinder or Torley when you need them,,,Teeple is a waste of space

  75. Dinah Jonson says:

    I fully support the guys who work at LL.
    SL is a fantastic programme. Since I joined there have been a lot of ‘outages’ on SL and I crash A LOT, however I accept these as part of the maintenance of such a huge programme.
    I personally think you should all STOP complaining about the fact YOU are losing money, etc and start appreciating what LL have created to ENABLE you to make your buck and just be patient.

  76. mr ninetails says:

    The standard of service has gone down with each passing day. LL seem determined to introduce features that are quite frankly ridiculous. the latest being joystick control.
    Its about time as much effort was put into providing a reliable and stable service. Personally i don’t care about fancy features, facelights and ripple effects.. sure it looks pretty.. but its no good if the system cant stay up long enough for people to see it.
    Invest in hardware, bandwidth and redundancy.. once that is in place .. then you can play with the pretty bits..

  77. Angelic Greenwood says:

    Nope, they aren’t.

    I’m sure as all these messages have pretty much slapped every Linden in the fact about 2 or 3 times each, they would’ve said something or started deleting comments by now.

    Another show of how they don’t give a damn. I highly doubt it’s because they must devote 100% of their undivided attention to something that’s gonna continue to look and run like absolute hell when they’re done.

  78. Paddy Wright says:

    75# No complaints here…just need to a few answers…Pastrami talks about windlight all the time..sidewinder is fab about Havok..but when log ins are restricted…it all goes silent….hello LL? anyone there?

  79. Angelic Greenwood says:

    @ 75

    Hun, I can tell you right now, that the outtages is only PART of what bugs people. The majority of the problem is that the outtages are not announced ahead of time that way business owners can PREPARE for it. THAT’S the problem.

    I don’t run a business, I work in SL for my SL money, and I rent a SL apartment, but I’m as peeved as anyone else because I’ve seen BETTER service on an MMO like Everquest 2.

    On Everquest, they take all the servers down everyday at the same time to patch, fix bugs, do updates, and when they put in their new updates, you are TOLD WHEN they are going to do it.

    A video game that I pay 15 bucks a month for does this. People pay 80, 90, 200 bucks a month? Yeah…they should get it.

    You support them, that’s great. But don’t tell people they can’t complain when they have good reason to complain. This SL is quickly becoming a P.O.S.

  80. Mike1 Shepherd says:

    Actually this page was already edited. That “running man” is Phil. He is running as fast as he can because they all know this pyramid scheme is about to collapse.
    Soon he will be the burning man.

    The secret here is to get everyone to quit so they can resell the land at 1000$ a pop to suckers who think that by decreasing initial cost, keeping or raising tier, that the overloaded support lines will get better.

    Do people honestly think lowering the cost and increasing the amount of islands will solve things? Nope, increase the cash flow, increase the latency and give us pretty color to burn out our retinas.

    What is more off topic or abusive, what is being done to us or what we are saying?

  81. Bloodsong Termagant says:

    well, here’s what i gleaned from it.
    this is not ‘official.’

    1: How Is Old Hardware Affected by WindLight?
    going into graphics preferences and cranking it down to LOW should allow older hardware to run at levels comparable to the non-windlight viewer. LOW on the windlight viewer is possibly medium/high range on the old viewer.

    2: Crashes
    didn’t see the answer for this one.

    3: Memory Leaks
    this is a TOP PRIORITY being WORKED ON.

    4: Skirts disappearing
    missed/skipped this, too.

    5: New Features
    sorta skipped the argument of ‘stop doing new features til things work right’ vs ‘those things not working right don’t have to do with the new viewer features.’ see the opening comments explaining data vs paint for details.

    6: Avatar Impostors/Quality
    avatar detail has to be turned up for these to look good. alternately, uncheck ‘avatar impostors’ option.
    (graphics: turn on ‘advanced’ view.)

    7: Open Source Code
    another argument for/against using some open source patches.
    A: some ‘fixes’ are not ‘fixes’ but just ‘hide’ the bugs.
    B: some fixes are not fully documented and/or may present a security problem.

    please feel free to expand/correct.

  82. LaeMiQian says:

    I am editing the chatter from the transcript as I read it right now and periodically updating a copy in my web space as I go:


    About an hour from this post it cam be assumed to be as edited as I am going to make it.

  83. Fand Aeon says:

    It is too bad that you aren’t holding the meeting for people in different time zones.

    I really would have liked to talk to someone. With this change I lost a lot of inventory, a whole file of animals (over 600 objectes) which cost hundreds of US $. (I am into landscaping lol)

    I did file an AR and haven’t heard anything back. I have been here 6 months and have become a premium member and pay a good size tier which was going to go up when I got an island.

    Now, to be honest…I am afraid to do that.

  84. Eric says:

    Slowly, step by step, all businesses begin failing as LL parties down and transactions fail across the grid. My business is down 50% or more because people can not make purchases or afraid to because they may lose the items they buy. Let’s try making sure we stay in business LL, or you’ll soon see your’s failing too when everyone starts packing it in and leaving this troubled world.

  85. CC says:

    oh btw pastrami please add to that list to make sure you reconfigure your firewalls for SL even if u have them set to off i couldn’t login to windlight for months because of this i was at he point to go buy a new PC and i figured this out that the new SL was not accessing my firewall for permission anymore ……….so i couldn’t do anything in sl my fps were like 2 couldn’t move ……..ruthed for over an hour or more and nothing else would rez this was all cause from firewall and my firewall was off so screwed up i swear and not one linden sugested i check this all i ever got was update drivers clear cache and relog and check your settings to zero on sliders very very frustrating that you all have zero tech help when u issue a new viewer like this other than the useless jira

  86. Laura Flintlock says:

    @80 Mike1, the Wicker Man comes to mind.

    And to add my two penn’orth to the “vanishing items” threads – SL stole all my trousers; they just vanished from my inventory.

    *sits back, arms folded and waits for innuendos*

  87. Marigold McBride says:

    Just wanted to comment on a couple of things. First, it is always laudable when a company invites (and endures) comments and complaints about its product from its users. I applaud the Lindens for such transparency. It’s rare and therefore valuable. Secondly, a quibble. When tech support says “the topics are really limited to about 6 core issues. 99% of our questions are repetitions, and weโ€™ve answered them many times”, it probably indicates that they’re just darned tired of hearing about the same thing “over and over”. The issue I have with this kind of communication is that each new person providing the comment or making the complaint is likely to be doing so for the *first* time. Imagine if you went to your doctor and he said he was getting tired of hearing people with their complaints about the flu, even though you had never come to him with such symptoms until now. You’d want a solution, not a brush-off, as if he was too good, too busy, or just to darned bored to treat your case. So, my suggestion to the Lindens, humbly and sincerely, is: please listen anyway. We who are clueless users just don’t know that our newly experienced difficulty is something you’ve dealt with hundreds of times. It is new to *us*. And if you can offer a remedy, please point us in the right direction. When I was in IT, and listened to support retorting “RTFM” to users, I cringed every time. Some of us don’t even know there *is* a self-help resource, and people learn through different media (trust me, I’m an educator in RL). Please have patience with clueless customers. We are not ‘just like you’, I’m afraid. We don’t know what you know and there’s, in all honesty, no way we ever will.

  88. CC says:

    @75 i have been patient for well over 2 years of paying 200+ us dollars of month plus the cost of investing in large amonths of land to start a business in SL i have a bloody right to complain thanks =)

  89. Paddy Wright says:

    I think secondlife has died people..so sorry

  90. shockwave yareach says:

    Oh, I would have liked to have come to your office hours.

    Unfortunately, I have a RL job to pay those RL bills – the SL bill being among them. So with that in mind, is there any chance you can have an office hour around 6SLT once or twice a month? For us poor creatures who cannot be inworld all day and night?

  91. Kevin Susenko says:

    I’m working on a cleaned up version of the chat. About 1/3 of the way through. Will post to wiki when done.

  92. Riven Homewood says:

    I’ve been on sl almost a year, and I love it. I have a place in a wonderful community, great friends, and a job I really enjoy. In addition, sl has brought me rl recognition at work and a raise.

    For the past week, I have found sl so frustrating that I’m seriously considering quitting and doing something else with my time and $$.

    I hate the new viewer — even running the old viewer, my frame rate is in the basement, and it was fine before.

    If somebody as dedicated as I am is feeling this way, what are other people thinking? And why don’t you folks at Linden Labs want to listen to us?

  93. IAm Zabelin says:

    Unfortunately I didn’t make the office hours.

    But there is another topic I certainly hope LL is working on, although it seems not at all from the transcript – that is the IP theft issue for content creators.

    Content is not really progressing as it should, and the reason is simple, no-one wants to spend months building content that can be freely stolen. Actually it’s really quite simple to put some controls in place for this.

    There are big reference’s made to how the JIRA is so ‘well’ used by LL to address issues. This appears to be ‘selectivly’ … SVC-676 has close to 1000 votes on it, and is FLAT IGNORED by LL!!! Not even comments from LL are made on there, its as if commenting on it could be a career-delimiting move. Really sad.

    There were big promises made by LL on IP theft years ago, and NONE of those have materialized.

    SVC-1732 is a very good suggestion which will go a long way towards suppressing content theft, and a portion of that can be implemented in a few lines of code, very easily, and very fast … stop uploads for non-payment-on-file users.

    Theft will dramatically drop as no-one with payment info on file will want to be the ‘creator’ of stolen content.

    Please consider this seriously!

    I’d like to suggest a meeting on IP theft to start honoring the previous promises that LL is looking into it, and regular updates given.

    Either that, or publish in black and white that any content in SL is a free-for-all, so some of us can move on.

    We content creators are hoping to see a LL response to this … other than the ignoring which it always gets.

  94. Stephe Ehrler says:

    What all this has shown me is this is NOT a place you can run a real business. I gave up trying to actually even break even on my sim tier, see this as a “game” and just try to have fun. Between the rampant copying of content with NOTHING being done, constant core problems that have been happening for at least a year and they way they just seem to focus on adding “new shinies”, because it’s boring to code writers to actually try to solve bugs, it’s circling the drain IMHO as ever being viable for business use.

    BTW whoever made IM tabs not “blink” when you get a new responce, obviously doesn’t have many in world friends. I sometimes have 10-15 IM tabs going at once and have to constantly scroll through them now to check to see who has responded… At least make this an option if one of the coders doesn’t like the way the old IM window worked. Also the way you split up the friends list from the IM window makes zero sense, the 1.8 Series IM interface was MUCH more usable to people who contact more than one person in world.

  95. I was watching those logs the chat logs and it looks like lindens crash just like we do lol.

  96. scarlet vavoom says:

    Were any Mac issues brought up?

  97. Bradley Bracken says:

    Pastrami, thank you for the transcript but it’s nearly unreadable from all the people who wouldn’t shut up and let you speak. People didn’t seem to understand to keep their mouths shut and to send you IM’s.

    In the future I suggest you be strict that if someone speaks out of turn you immediately eject them. It may seem high handed but it will get the point across.

  98. Cappy Frantisek says:

    Figures, I should have looked first. Just completed my own edit. Thanks for all the Lindens and taking the time to listen to the problems faced by all.

  99. “Thankfully though, gone were all the questions of when Glow will be scriptable – all thanks to 1.20 RC ;)”

    To be replaced in future by ones about why genuine documented health concerns raised in regards to the new Dazzle colour scheme (http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-5080?focusedCommentId=50037#action_50037) and why Dazzle can’t be introduced with the existing colour scheme until proper user choice through skinning is possible (http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-5059), are being swept aside by the UI team. Some people like it, “including Linden Labs management” to quote a Ben from yesterday. Inertia is not a good enough reason to ignore all the researched and referenced evidence provided that it will cause serious eyestrain and is literally giving users migraines.

    This not moaning because we just don’t like it aesthetically, this is constructive criticism to help try and avoid a mistake which causes people physical pain.

  100. Oops, forgot to sort the links out when pasting it in sorry, clicking my name will link to the JIRA issue.

  101. … and forgot to say thanks to Pastrami and team for enduring 4 hours of pain themselves ๐Ÿ˜‰

  102. Buterfly says:

    You guys all whine and complain a lot about how the lindins & second life runs.
    I guess you guys take the easier of the 3 options..
    1: whine like an ignorant moron
    2: apply to work for the company to help better the service
    3: create your own service to be better than the one being provided

    I’m not going to waste my time to try to educate any of you, because it’s clearly pointless with the large level of bitching on these blogs. It takes a lot of time to stabilize a server such as Second Life. As far as client crashing, the current viewer release I don’t think should have even been let out as anything more than a beta till the memory leak was fixed in it, but I do think it overall performs significantly better than before to exclude memory leaking.

    Here’s a little story & knowledge for you guys:
    NASA has 7 programmers that program EVERYTHING for space shuttle missions. The astronauts are nothing more than decoration in a shuttle, they’re there for the ride and to read back data inside the shuttle to double check on things, that is all they are really for. The flight path, oxygen levels, experiments, everything is all controlled by computer systems & programs that those 7 programmers make. And still, things go wrong from random time to time..
    So why do you expect perfection from anything less than those 7 people who can’t even produce 100% perfection themselves?

    Yes, the server & client aren’t very stable in Second Life, but unless you yourself can do better.. I don’t get how the heck you can manage to complain.. “oh, this sucks, but I’m still going to stick with it” .. are you guys just dumb? stick your hand in a fire, complain that it hurts and burns, but never take your hand out?

    I’ve seen worse and I’ve seen better than Second Life, but I know I can’t program something like this, and if I did, it’d defiantly be worse than this, so I have no complaints with Second Life overall other than the lacking of stability over quality/performance.
    The common packet loss I get is also a bit high, but that can be expected when I think about 10 people walking into a sim, downloading 500kbps .. which is a 5mbps upload from the server.. for 10 people, yeah.. that can be a huge load of data to send on a large scale..

    Okay, I think I’m done with my rant now.. so yeah, go ahead and flame up this blog with an impressive display of ignorance in regards to my post here.. I’m never going to read your replies to this, so .. whatever..

  103. Buterfly says:

    let me correct the first line of what i posted..
    “You guys all whine and complain a lot about how the lindins & second life runs.”
    A lot of you guys…

    also i spelt “lindins” wrong, whoops.

  104. Renee Faulds says:

    FIX SL !!!

  105. Renee Faulds says:


    Where your poseballs Phil ?????????

  106. Renee Faulds says:

    ……or in other words Phil where is that new hot shot CEO you hired???

    seems he has no balls either…..

    Renee Faulds

  107. Raven Primeau says:

    sighs, poor buterfly, in England at least we spell it with two Ts

    I pay LL to provide a platform for me to come to socialise with friends from all over the world, and yes I whine when it is mismanaged and screwed up by the fery ppl that are supposed to be providing it. But at the end of the day I and many others are paying for a service that LL seem not to care about its quality, but pump out crap like Dazzle and veiwers that you have to reset your preferences every time you log, and each time they do the standard slips a little so please, your options are BS so button it!

  108. Soizie Franciosa says:

    OMG ! I know it’s a big shit when login is disabled or when we have inworld issue.
    I know that lots of money is involved for some and of course they should make prior announcements but I’m sure they got the message now!
    This is a GAME, remember, just a GAME … Keep it cool, it’s weekend!
    Enjoy your RL !

  109. Ciaran Laval says:

    Pastrami promote your previous office hours better. People don’t go to the wiki, they come here. Many Americans have difficulty getting to office hours because they’re at work (I’m in Europe myself and office hours definitely suit Europeans better as we’re generally out of work when they happen). Therefore it would be nice if via the forums or a special link page from the main site people were able to read transcripts of all office hours (unless of course confidential issue are being discussed).

    From what I’ve heard you had a hell of a ride there yesterday, fair play to you for dealing with the issues in such a good hearted manner.

  110. cosa nostra says:

    Some advice to LINDEN LABS

    STOP using this type of blogs untill ya product is running stable ! Youre giving false hope to youre customer base. Start reading & analyzing for once and now all information that has been reported since last week in the overall blog sections ! and learn from it !

    The future of a company is depending on ya customer base, and like it is now you are just heading to a disaster, open your eyes or is everyone in coma @ LINDEN LABS !

    Just close the grid for the general public and only give access to people who ;

    1. have payment info on file
    2. sim owners (mainland or private islands)

    work close with this group on solutions, then this will probably bring you much further moving forward than it is now !

  111. Vivienne says:

    “Why donโ€™t you guys do what you did for the concierge folks a few weeks back. Open up several sims and put lindens from all disciplines in it and let us ask them questions.”

    Do you really want to see them lynched?

  112. Vivienne says:

    “Many Americans have difficulty getting to office hours”

    And many non-americans speak no english at all.

  113. Vivienne says:

    @ Buterfly

    “Yes, the server & client arenโ€™t very stable in Second Life, but unless you yourself can do better.. ”

    What a nonsense. These guys get paid by their customers in order to do their job. They CHARGE people. No one would complain if this were an open source project, free of charge and with no real money and work involved. But there is an economical background, and so LL should be handled like any other service provider on the globe, not like our best buddies who are into trouble.

    Many ppl in Sl pay more than 250 US dollars monthly for a service, which is extremely unreliable on almost every level. If f.e. an internet provider would charge the same for the service and fail as LL does, it would be out of business within a week. Even an average premium pays more cash to LL than most do for a complete web hosting, including apache server, php, mySQL and all.

    There are only two reasons for LL being still in business: No competition and the interest of ppl not to lose all the money and work they gifted to this weird company. And thatยดs all.

    Nicholaz Beresford made a much, much better viewer than LL ever managed to release, and he gave up. Read his blog, and you know why.

  114. Balpien Hammerer says:

    Wish I could have made the office hours, bit I have a real life too. Pastrami, you asked for input on problem areas and it looks like some major ones are missing. One important one is pending and unattended. Take a look at VWR-4714. This is one of several verisimilitude destroying changes that need to be fixed.

  115. Renee Faulds says:


  116. SANTA says:


  117. IAm Zabelin says:

    Buterfly @ 103, wrong … the worst is the hidden option you chose:

    4: ridicule others comments without thought, then turn-tail and run away.

    Why do you assume the only good feedback is positive feedback?

    Re your comments:
    a. Probably NASA’s problem is they have too many programmers working on their kernels. One’s loneliness, two’s company, and three’s a crowd. Ideally the kernel group should be small.
    Most successful projects have very few senior (but very dedicated) developers, once it gets too many, there are too many errors creeping in and miscommunications / interpretations (case in hand). At my previous company (bought out by a major CRM company), there was one main developer (guess who) as head of R&D, and a downstream configuration team with limits as to the damage they could inflict. One’s a crazy risk though in case of accident etc, so we did have a dedicated analyst to act as a backup knowledge-base, but it made for a very successful company with successful mainstream CRM products.

    b. As for your options, I’m dabbling on option (3) with the Crytek engine (think farcry). IP protection is top of agenda, and anti-grieving too, as is decentralized region hosting. Of course it’ll probably never materialize as its an immense task in terms of man-years development for one, but nothing ventured, nothing gained, right? Ask Bill. Better than sitting whinging at supposedly ignorant morons … ignorant as they have “complaints” – never mind the off-chance that some of them might even be intelligent enough to have possible solutions for improving this product.

    c. Clearly from your option (2) you assume that LL has the top developers. Did you ever stop and think that some people may have better employment and not want to apply to work at LL, yet would like to contribute to the success of the product? BTW: if they had the top developers you likely wouldn’t have these issues.

    d. As for your comment re are we users dumb to stick with it … well there’s just not many decent options yet for interactive content creation, is there? If there were, we may still be SL users, who knows … at least in that case they’d have some serious competition … which always improves products (or sinks them).

    Do you think if there was serious competition for SL they’d have the type and frequency of service outages they have now? Not a chance, it’ll happen once, heads will roll, and a new hosting model will be rolled out. Either that or users would be on their competitors grid.

  118. SANTA says:



  119. LoLo says:

    The answers on the copyright blog weren’t very satisfactory. Can Sidewinder take over this issue maybe? He and his team did a great job, were very helpfull and answered questions, we also need someone like that for the theft/DMCA/Copyright issues.

  120. Chaos Mohr says:

    It is nice to see that some work is being done to address the serious issues, however so many minor bugs (which are major for some people) have fallen by the wayside ie: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-5098 which was assigned DEV-10953 back in late February – seriously, the code for this I don’t think should be so hard to change. I don’t have the time to dig into it and relearn my C++ skills, but I ended up setting it so that Search resets on a close of the search window – having to logout to get proper search behavior after ordering results is ridiculous! At least I have the tools to compile my own viewer with a basic work around fix, but for what a lot of us pay LL, I would hope for a bit quicker resolution, especially once a bug has been assigned internally.

  121. Jane says:

    Why didn’t we get an answer to our question on the copyrighst blog?


  122. Bucky Barkley says:

    Who is the lead tech person now at Linden Labs?

    Is it Joe Miller?

    Why does he not post to the blog?

    Is there going to be a replacement CTO?

  123. Claudine Chantilly says:

    to all the LL apologists and especially @103 buterfly who wrote:

    You guys all whine and complain a lot about how the lindins & second life runs.
    I guess you guys take the easier of the 3 options..
    1: whine like an ignorant moron
    2: apply to work for the company to help better the service
    3: create your own service to be better than the one being provided

    Right so let’s see.. You go to the railway station and buy a ticket to a faraway city. The train leaves the station and pulls up a few hundred yards up the line.. “oh dear, everyone out, but do come back next month, maybe we’ll get there then.. oh.. and don’t forget to pay your fare (tier) again before you board”

    you now have the choice:

    1. To complain
    2. To apply to work for the railway company
    3. To build your own railway

    Yeah right..

  124. Amaterasu Cinquetti says:

    Thankyou for the very informative meeting Pastrami (despite having had to get up at 6am to make the last hour or so of it).
    I am one that is having huge issues with Windlight, and while I didn’t really glean any solution from the discussion, I certainly got quite a lot out of it.

    Also a huge thanks to all the other Lindens that attended the meeting and endured major lag, people yelling and talking way off topic to give answers.

  125. IAm Zabelin says:

    I second Santa @ 118 and others, LAURAP and BLUE, please advise about office hours. I’d like to be there too please.

    I also second Lolo @119, can Sidewinder please get involved on the IP theft issue … at least there’ll be communication and movement, not 2 years silence.

    There is NOTHING more frustrating than a blog post, without replies of feedback on user issues / comments. Granted it was recent so hopefully we’ll see an announcement about a meeting soon. And I missed it (as blogs filled to 150 within a few hours! … CLUE: serious subject!)

    PLEASE LL : Simply restrict file uploads to users with payment-on-file. Minimal development, a few lines of code, and a big step in counter-acting IP texture / sculpt theft.

    You can’t protect IP rights if your basic model is not secure .. atm anyone can create alt accounts without trace, and destroy good businesses by content theft.

  126. Web Page says:

    Customer support isn’t denying thatt here are problems and reading the manual to an unruly mob.

    Customer support fixes problems.
    Evidence of good customer support is organization and happy customers.

    We want customer support.

  127. Pointside Sunbelter says:

    I havent looked at the transcript yet but I hope you weeded out all the tree talk. ๐Ÿ™‚

    Crazy ppl kept talking about when it LL putting the trees back in some sim.

  128. Renee Faulds says:

    The time now is:

    IAm Zabelin Says:
    April 11th, 2008 at 6:20 PM

    I second Santa @ 118 and others, LAURAP and BLUE, please advise about office hours. Iโ€™d like to be there too please.

    Hey Phil – where your poseballs dude !!!

    You crossdressing now ?????

  129. Pastrami Linden says:

    @87 – Yep, I get where you’re coming from. BUT, that’s why I implore those people to read the trasnscript.

    No, a doctor doesn’t tell you to shove off. But, he or she will often give you a pamphlet on the condition being treated precisely with FAQs – to avoid the Dr. repeating the same info everyone wants to know. We’ve just assembled it for you.

    @98 – THANK YOU!!!! I’ve now linked to that one off the main posting. In the future, thanks to the tools mentioned here, I will post better-formatted transcripts!

  130. Lyselle Munro says:

    Pastrami, I want to thank you for getting the log up so quickly! I wasn’t able to attend the meeting & am looking forward to reading it. I truly appreciate all you techie people working so incredibly hard to try to explain issues to us in a straight-forward manner!

    Must run out to RL work atm or this would be longer but thanks again!


  131. Alexandra Rucker says:

    These 4 hours, combined with our previous hours, have shown that the topics are really limited to about 6 core issues. 99% of our questions are repetitions, and weโ€™ve answered them many times.

    Obviously there’s something wrong with the answers….OR THEY WOULDN’T KEEP GETTING ASKED!

    And completely ignoring the question of why LL has essentially kicked the best open sourcer to the curb really WAS noticed, despite attempts to distract everyone with “teh shiny”.

  132. IAm Zabelin says:

    Quote @ 93 : “SVC-676 has close to 1000 votes on it, and is FLAT IGNORED by LL!!! Not even comments from LL are made on there, its as if commenting on it could be a career-delimiting move. Really sad.”

    After post 3, first LL response is @ 129 … thanks 98 and 87 for clapping hands, NC on 93 smack in the middle of 87 and 98, or any other concerned users posts … thanks Pastrami.

    If this is how LL uses feedback on this blog, it’ll be better to just have a basic vote on each post with no replies … did u find this post useful (rate 1-5). That way you don’t need to hear from users with concerns or issues. You could even make all (1-5) smiles, then there will always be positive feedback!

    Please get Sidewinder to hold some internal training sessions.

  133. I couldn’t make it to the office hours, but there’s a question in the transcript that’s very close to my own concerns :

    “Your mandatory client upgrades are killing schools and teachers, they have budget and hardware issues that you guys seem completely oblivious to.”

    Unfortunately the answer from Pastrami was not good :

    “I agree but, we have to get people on to recent code it makes debugging and improvement MUCH better so we try to balance the advantage of mandatory with the disadvantage”

    As Windlight and other features require better graphic cards, I’m sure LL could develope a “Lite” version of the viewer, that supports the newer code but that doesn’t include Windlight and other advanced features, so people without “Gamer’s Machines” can get into SL, and take advantage of SL’s educational and antertainment features.

    Progress is great, I’m sure SL must look very nice with Windlight, but as LL has lead us to think that SL is not “A Game” but “A Platform” or “A Standard” for interactive 3d environments that can be used for education, business and entertainment, to raise the minimum requeriments will leave many potential SL residents behind.

    SL is great for those of us who are not “Hardcore Gamers”, it’s a very creative approach to interactive 3d software, and a “Lite” version of the viewer would encourage many non-gamers to try SL, probably some of them would later try to update their machines to use Windlight and all the other “advanced” stuff.

  134. Pastrami Linden says:

    @93/132 – Not ignoring it- it’s just not within my realm of expertise. As you’ll see from my transcript, we deal with the visual representation of data- the “paint”. IP issues, while *extremely* important, are not a facet of the work I or the rest of the team does :\. So any answer I’d give would be inaccurate and uninformed.

    @133- Between Torley’s latest video, this transcript, and the transcript of every other office hours we’ve held, I don’t know how to put it clearer-


    Go to Preferences, set your Graphics slider to Low. Voila. No shaders, no atmospherics, faster even than the older viewer. Then, if you really want certain features turned on, click on ‘Custom’ and turn them on one-by-one. I think I’m going to blog this paragraph daily from now on ๐Ÿ˜‰

  135. IAm Zabelin says:

    Thanks for a response Pastrami @ 134 … any response is better than none – even if its to say its not your area. Although the ‘thats not my area’ is the standard reply on IP issues whenever the subject is brought up.

    However, that being the case, can you please pass comments on to alert the ‘IP expert team’ that many users are very upset that nothings been done and theft is rising daily.

    Can you at least advise who is the IP content team? And how we can contact them.

    As nothing been done in this *extremely important* area for years (apart from dropped hints that its not forgotton), it seems to users there is NO “IP team”, I’d be extremely happy to hear there is one.

    Please can you suggest at your next meeting that an IP team gets put together, or if it exists, gets re-assigned to someone who can action and actually deal with the issues.

  136. IAm Zabelin says:

    BTW Pastrami @ 134 : if your team handles the ‘visual representation of data- the โ€œpaintโ€ ‘ … its possible one of your team BROKE the color palette drag-to-save a color option. It was broken LONG ago (about the time dazzle was been put in) and a JIRA raised (VWR-5366), which has been ignored to date.

    It’s likely one of your team, as other than for dazzle dialogs, I can’t think why anyone would touch the code on the color palette.

    It’s really a pain for content creators to not be able to save the color (typically to reuse on other faces later etc).

    Please look into that.

  137. @134 : Pastrami, the new viewer never loads on my PC, this is NOT a “Lite” viewer, I can’t get to the preferences menu, just because the viewer crashes on startup, so there is no way I can turn off the advanced features (I would need the program to run in order to see the preferences menu, and it never happens, I know, my PC is old, my graphics card is not advanced, but it was working fine with version 1.18, and it works fine with the OnRez viewer…)

    really, there are lots of computers without Nvidia cards, their users would like to be part of the SL universe, they (we…) would contribute to enrich SL, maybe LL just don’t want us to, I really think SL would be a great educational and entertainment experience for lots of people, as long as the viewer at least let them login and try it…

    anyway, thanks for your answer, and sorry for bothering you with my complains, for me, OnRez is the answer, I hope it works fine on all the computers LL have decided not to support as it works on mine…

  138. Pastrami Linden says:

    @137- can you at least get to the login screen? Then you can go to Edit->Preferences (?)

  139. Aquarius Paravane says:


    1.19.1 runs for a few minutes on my machine and then freezes necessitating a hard restart. 1.19.0 runs a bit longer and sometimes I can catch it going down and kill it without restarting my machine. In both viewers cutting the VRAM to half helps delay the freeze substantially and also seems to stop the FPS sinking to 1 and below. HOWEVER, the viewers keep resetting the VRAM to my system’s installed maximum. Maybe because they don’t save preferences until they quit normally which never happens because they always crash first. It would be good if the VRAM was properly set by the viewer.

    Secondly, I looked long and hard in JIRA for a meta issue on 1.19.1 freezes and another on 1.19.0 freezes. I didnt find a suitable set of JIRA entries to contribute to. It would help if you could set up Meta issues and publish the numbers.

    Thanks Pastrami for stepping up to this and please dont stop till the viewers Just Work.

  140. Ellla says:

    Pastrami, I just wanted to say thank you for all your efforts; for all the time you spent at the meeting and for checking back here and responding where you can. (Also you have a great name ! ๐Ÿ™‚ )

    There will always be people who wish to vent when things don’t happen, the exact way they want, at the click of a mouse button. There will also be people who don’t try and look up the self-help resources that are available.

    I have been trying to think how more people could be helped … Yes, LL could improve their communications with the residents; more in-world notifications, Blog posts which say, if you are having problems with this … try this … (eg. if you want to change preferences before you log in and are wondering where the button has gone, look at the top of your screen and go Edit > Preferences) Also, would it be possible to produce a step-by-step help guide, go here, then here etc … LOL look what is under the comment I have just written “Need help? Please visit our Support Page.”

    Oh well, perhaps there is nothing to be done except to let people vent. If anyone finds a way, please let me know, I’d love to help.

  141. @138 – sorry, the 1.19.1 viewer crashes on startup on my machine, I never get to see the login window, the program just crashes, anyway, thank you very much for being so interested in this issue…

    I just have an additional question, I’ve been able to use the unofficial “Able” viewer, which is based on 1.18.0(6), this one hasn’t crashed on my PC, and works just fine, so my question is : why can’t I login using an official viewer older than 1.19.0? if older viewers were still available maybe a lot of us wouldn’t be complaining and “venting”, and if an unofficial one works fine, I guess an official one would work fine too…

  142. Wyald Woolley says:

    Sooooo many problems! Some to do with the viewer, and the rest with every other part of SLยฎ. I saw the following blurb on CNN about WoW. The last sentence is a chilling warning to Linden Labs. Get it together, or else.

    You may not be able to buy shares in your Warcraft server, but you can certainly invest in its future. Even continuing to play on a particular server is in a sense an expression of confidence. Unsuccessful online games, like floundering companies, are bound to have the plug pulled on them at some point.

  143. Elliott Eldrich says:

    I just wanted to give some feedback on the new RC 1.20.0 which I am currently using on my Mac Pro. It is working VERY well overall, I’m not crashing or freezing hardly at all any longer. 1.19.1 was a disaster for my Mac, I had to use to run at all… but the new RC 1.20.0 is VERY good and you should all be proud of the good work.

    One comment/suggestion: I’m doing a lot with sculpties now, creating new content using SLoft (free plug for a great tool here) – however, I have two concerns about your current support of sculpties. First, when you turn up mesh detail in preferences, it maxes the setting for rendervolumeLODfactor at 2.0 when it REALLY needs to be a minimum of 4.0 to render sculpties properly at any distance whatsoever. I strongly suggest adjusting that factor so that when maximum is selected for mesh detail that it will then set rendervolumeLODfactor to 4.0 at the very least, if not 5.0

    My second concern with sculpties is that often they just don’t load properly, they’ll load about 1/2 way and then get “stuck”. There needs to be a way to “force reload” the sculpt maps, as well as ensuring they do a better job of loading in the first place.

    Scuplties are going to make a big impact in the overall look and feel of SL, so I suggest working to improve how they load and render.

  144. Foxxe Wilder says:

    I would like to suggest that BEFORE LL makes ANY client a MANDATORY UPGRADE that they should at LEAST wait 2 days or so for feedback to see if it is even WORTH the upgrade. For example, the current release
    RC0 is crap and so full of missing items when it DOES run that it was NOT EVEN WORTH the download bandwidth!!

    The TOOLS tabs is missing making building a pain. ADD to that the missing highlighting when working with prims. OH!!! Did I mention that, despite the fact that almost NO ONE has heard of Dazzle Admitted I checked it out, and found that the only way it differed from the current release was the colour scheme bloody horrid!! – I naturally DUMPED it for the piece of trash it is!

    If you are going to push new colour schemes on us, GIVE US an OPTION to revert to the NORMAL view!

    Yeah this is not exactly on topic but it DOES have to do with current releases and you didn’t exactly allow any feedback on the last RC… How are you going to see if it is WORTH a F*** if you don’t allow feedback?? Geez guys… don’t think like a bunch of braindead corporate monkeys; instead try to CARE for what you are doing!

  145. ina says:

    What’s with the NaNoWriMo logo?

    Anyway, the chat transcripts do not really tell you how to configure from the old sunrise setting to the Windlight sunrise. Any tips on conversion would be appreciated!

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