Rolling Restart for Server Patch Deploy, Tue-Wed April 8-9

[Update 2008-04-10 22:00]: The central servers have been updated. However, the rest of the deploy will not proceed this week.  We will do a rolling restart next week to deploy the fixes in this patch.

[Update 2008-04-09]: We found a very minor hitch as we began the deploy– this is why we do these things cautiously and in stages now. We have postponed the rolling restart again. Watch this space for updates as to when it will actually happen.

[Update 2008-04-09]: The rolling restart will begin tonight. At 18:30, we will update the central servers. There will be brief in-world service interruptions (e.g. group chats, profiles, friends online) as the servers are restarted. After this is done, we will deploy the new server version to 500 regions. The scheduling below has been updated. –Prospero Linden

[UPDATE 2008-04-08]: This will be delayed by at least one more day, as we continue internal testing. The earliest projected roll-out is on Wednesday/Thursday (i.e. a one day slip in schedule). — Joshua Linden

We will be doing a rolling restart this Tuesday and Wednesday (April 8 and 9) to roll out server version 1.21. We will follow our standard procedure of doing the rolling restart in stages, so that we will have the opportunity to detect any serious production problems before the whole grid is affected. The schedule will be:

  • [updated] Wednesday 04/09, 18:30-? : Server 1.21 will be deployed to the central servers and to ~500 regions.
  • [updated] Thursday 04/10, 05:30-07:00 : Sever 1.21 will be deployed to an additional ~2000 regions.
  • [updated] Thursday 04/10, 18:00 : The deploy to the full grid will begin, and will take 5-6 hours to complete.

During the rolling restart, each region will be down for a few minutes while it restarts. If your region stays down for more than 20 minutes during the restart, you can contact support to find out if there was a problem with it. Residents in-world will receive warnings beginning five minutes before the region they are in is restarted. Currently, it is not possible to delay the restart of a given region.

Two things are included in this server deploy. First, there are performance and security patches. This includes the memory allocation issue that has led to some increased server lag in void (openspace) sims. Sidewinder Linden will post a separate blog entry with the details of these fixes. Second, we will be rolling out code that changes the way regions are assigned to hosts, although this change will be initially disabled. This new code is not visible to residents; however, it adds tools that allow us to manage database load more effectively. The goal is to partially alleviate the problems we’ve been having recently near peak concurrency.

(None of these changes are related to the long outage we had last Saturday; that was a networking issue with our networking provider, and didn’t have anything to do with the Second Life code itself.)

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153 Responses to Rolling Restart for Server Patch Deploy, Tue-Wed April 8-9

  1. Joachim Sicling says:

    er…. Tuesday 04/07?
    i thought Monday was 04/07?

    well, time is relative,.. even in SL ;D

  2. Sascha says:

    I hope the server release will ease some pain we are suffering here. Even if we don’t know now what date/time, since accuracy is not a LL term to use lol

  3. Broccoli Curry® says:

    Please give us more new features and STOP tring to make the grid more stable, your only making it worse.

    stick to NEW THINGS and leave everything else alone!!!

    Please we BEG you more new features! No more fixes!

  4. You got to be kidding me… Thought 1.20 was supposed to be the bomb… What’s wrong with this WELL OILED MACHINE?? So by Thursday SL will be 100% broken again. Look forward to another great weekend!!!! Thanks for all the money we are losing LL…..

  5. Little Ming says:

    @3 That’s a ridiculous demand. Without first fixing and providing a stable platform it is impossible to bring in new features.

    The instability that you are experiencing currently is a perfect example of that. They brought in a new feature, havok 4, and it has caused a lot of instability due to the new code.

    With any new feature that they add, it is almost a guarantee it will have issues for the very simple fact that while coding it, there is no possible way to see how well it will perform on the 100s of thousands of different combinations of PC hardware and software, that log into the secondlife grid on a daily basis. Throw into that mix the billions of unique items created by users in the database, there is no way to tell how a patch will effect the entire grid until it has actually been rolled out.

    It is a process that requires a lot of patience from the users. They are working on it, and they are trying to resolve the issues as quickly as possible. While they do a lot of QA and do catch the majority of the bugs before rolling out a major patch, as you can see, and as I previously stated, it is impossible to catch them all.

  6. Kentar says:

    Concentrate on USER NEEDS, not DESIGNER GREEDS! I”ve got over 15,000L worth of damaged vehicles that no longer run properly, including an amazing 4 seater passenger dragon (from Everlite) whose wings are no longer linked when used. It took me 4 months to find it, and now after on a few months use it’s trashed. Not Happy.

  7. Lollo Tomsen says:

    Will this fix the transaction problems? The situation is not acceptable anymore. We landowners get the trouble on the grid everyday. Many times a day, too many times and this since too much days now.

    We are paying high tiers, are loosing visitors on our sims, and our businesses are getting in trouble because of that. Meanwhile most times there are no postings on the blog about payments problems. Thanks Lindens for leaving us alone in that situation. Personally I am paying 295 US Dollar per month – for that money I await a better service, better communication and of course: fixing the problem finally.

  8. as long as you have to turn off half of the functionality within SL every evening for the enxt two or more weeks noone will care about sim performance anyway. whats so hard on writing a detailed report on that topic instead? if you have something up your sleeves its time to elt peopl eknow…

  9. Little Ming says:

    @ 10 I’ve been around since beta, I’ve seen them come a long way.

    I’ve also worked in development and I know how the process works. It’s not an easy task, and despite all the QA sometimes you get a bad bomb. This is one of those situations, but they are trying to fix it and fix it quickly.

  10. Zito says:

    OMG the more Linden Lab employees try to fix the problem the worse it gets! No matter what version you put out theres one serious problem: as i touch the arrow lightly my avater tends to freze up & then when it stops im 6 to 8 steps ahead into a building or other object , the graphics take longer to load & if you want to see it sooner you have to click it it view it. Seems like all the employees that get hired come straight from pre-school with there building blocks.

  11. Anonymous says:

    @ Little Ming
    I think what Broccoli Curry was saying was facetiously said 😉 OOPPS; forgot the registered mark Ò 🙂 Let’s hope this gets some resolution soon, as things are just a little borked right now (VERY facetiously said)…

  12. Medina says:

    will you do something about IP theft?

    you spent a lot of time on your own trademarks and copyrights what about ours?

  13. Little Ming says:

    @13

    I wondered that myself, but given the other posts I don’t know. LoL Either way it’s quite humorous.

    I may look like a poster child for the LL fanboy sticking my neck out for them but trust me, these bugs bother me just as much as the next guy. However, there’s no use threatening to throw stones or take up pitchforks and march to their houses when they’re already doing their best to fix the problem.

    They are only human, they make mistakes. It’s that they try to correct those mistakes that matters the most. In the mean time, we have to be patient and understand that SL is a massive project, and anything good takes time.

    I lose money daily because of the issues, my gf is losing money as well. My friends suffer because of these bugs, but like I said, yelling, kicking, and screaming won’t make a fix come any faster.

  14. Mimi says:

    Is that the real broccoli curry or the fake one? This one is trademarked so I guess it’s the real 😉

  15. Ravanne Sullivan says:

    You tout SL as a place where you can run a business then you supply a platform that is not even suitable for a game. You disable important functions and tell us not to do transactions during peak periods, the very periods most important to any busienss in SL. Your actions and inactions are costing anyone who did open a business in SL lots of money, money that they have no hope of recouping yet you are sure quick enough to get your monthly tier payments. Its long past time that LL reimbursed all of the most important of your customers, the ones who pay tiers in the hundreds and even thousands of US Dollars each month. If this keeps up all that you will have left are the free basic account, I wonder how long LL can keep the lights on when that happens?

  16. Maklin Deckard says:

    “They are only human, they make mistakes. It’s that they try to correct those mistakes that matters the most. In the mean time, we have to be patient and understand that SL is a massive project, and anything good takes time.” – Little Ming

    You know, I’ve GIVEN LL the benefit of the doubt…quite a few times. But after years of CONSTANT ‘patch=SL broken WORSE than before the patch-more patches-fanboys rush to defend LL’, I am done giving them the benefit of the doubt.

    If they borked a patch once in a while, sure I’d give them the benefit of the doubt…but its EVERY SINGLE PATCH! This is not an isolated occurance, due to the nature of the program…it is either incompetence at project management/QU or pure sloppiness and coder-ego (push out the new features, so we can get on to coding the next new feature!).

    “I lose money daily because of the issues, my gf is losing money as well. My friends suffer because of these bugs, but like I said, yelling, kicking, and screaming won’t make a fix come any faster.” – Little Ming

    You make a great sheep….won’t stand up for yourself, your GF or your friends….just roll over and take it, defending the persons responsible for your troubles. Sorry, but sitting around baaaaing like good little sheep in LL’s herd of fanboy’s won’t fix it. If by posting, things get picked up by OTHER news sites and the word gets out to potential players/corporate users, then, LL might take a hit to the bottom line. THAT is what companies understand. Complacent customers like you will constantly be their doormat, they don’t have to worry about you making waves that might hurt the bottom line.

  17. WAAAHHHH!!!

    I want to bitch about something! oh, yeah…

    Ummm.. STOP doing stuff and fix the grid! Stop restarting things and stop fixing things and stop all this nonsense and just fix things will you already! 😡

    LOL!

    There. Now i feel like one of the “uninformed normal resident commenters” on the Second Life® blog. 😉

    Hey Prospero Linden™ – Thanks for the heads-up. Man-O-Man, at least the whole grid doesn’t have to be shutdown for 6-hours every Wednesday. Amazing how quickly some people forget. LOL!

  18. studlygoodf*ck® says:

    can`t be worse than the last one surely, so fingers crossed.

  19. Penguinfan Beck says:

    Did anyone at LL stop to think about the excessive load that Havok 4 would put on the servers before releasing it?? I am going to take a guess and say… NO.. “Increased stability…” “Havok 4” yeah, maybe with the right amount of allocated servers, but with the poor planning of LL involved… that never happens!

    Rediculous.. completely and utterly rediculous!!

  20. Zachary Carter says:

    May I ask the people who are complaining of lost business…

    I’ve been running a business in Second Life, and have only had ONE messed up transaction that anybody contacted me about. I make 2-5 sales PER DAY. Now, that might not seem like a lot, but it still proves a point.

    Besides, if you feel that Second Life is not a stable platform to run a business in, the answer is simple. Do-not-run-your-business-through-Second-Life.

    I spend time *daily* ranting about Linden Lab™ and Second Life® but the comments in the blogs are simply too much WHINE WHINE WHINE to even bother reading through anymore. Get a clue people. Those of you who are willing to stick around and have Linden Lab fix things, good for you. Those of you who are too reliant on this and see that it keeps breaking down, don’t run your business in Second Life.

  21. Mimi says:

    About 50 customers reported not receiving the items they bough last week. I wonder since many could not even open my profile to contact me: how many more have not received items and did not contact me? If you payed and did not receive items you payed for, contact the creator. Most of them are nice and helpfull.

  22. Lollo Tomsen says:

    @Zachary: I have beetween 5000 and 10 000 payment entries each day. If u want u can manage my account one single day. Than you will see what the payment problem causes. Feel free to anser all IM’s I got every day. Feel free to discuss with dozens of users about that. Feel free to make dozens of refunds every day for things u are not guilty for and for things u cant control. Feel free to let u say that you are a fraud because u are stealing money from the user. These are the things which happens every day to me dozens of times.

  23. Jenta says:

    @ Zachary Carter: if you make just 2-5 sales a day you are not likely to get many complaints, no wonder.
    But iff you hit up over 500 sales a day, like most big creators, the load of complains gets up to a point where you spend over an hour a day on cleaning up the mess. Thats too much.

  24. Razor says:

    Zachary is a NOOB he doesn’t knows what hes talking about.

  25. solar Legion says:

    Complaints on the blog do nothing at all to get an issue fixed faster – That is a fact here people.

    Most of this … LL already knows about. Guess what? There is no magic fix to each and every issue.

    Why not take a page out of RL Business and handle only a few complaints each and every day? If a transaction fails … Send a new copy when you are able.

  26. Zachary Carter says:

    @31 – I’ve been in Second Life since 2005.

    Yeah, I realize that 2-5 sales a day is not much. I’m just trying to put in perspective that whining isn’t going to get things done any faster. Not that any of you who responded to me were particularly whining, speaking in general.

  27. Jenta says:

    @ 32: do you have any idea how long it takes to explain to every resident why the transaction fails, calm the angry ones down, figure out which object they bought on which day (a lot speak crappy english, so you have to TP them over, get them to use babblers etc) and replace them the one?

  28. Jenta says:

    Secondlife *could* makea webpage we could send them to, explaining it’s their fault, so we don’t have to deal with the anger and “YOU RIPPED ME OFF” every day.

  29. Zachary Carter says:

    @35 – Possibly a wiki page or knowledgebase page saying “Why did my transaction fail? Did I just lose all of my money? What do I do?”

  30. Jenta says:

    @36 if they would do that it would save us a lot of time. i requested this several times, no answer. (not on the blog)

  31. Blinders Off says:

    Hi Lindens. Don’t get me wrong… Open Space sims are a smart move on your part. But: “This includes the memory allocation issue that has led to some increased server lag in void (openspace) sims.”

    While such a memory allocation issue may indeed exist, I think far more rudementary to the Open Space lag issue is the fact that you’re trying to place 16 sims on a server box.

    At the prices you’re charging for setup fees… that is really unnecessary. $8,000 to set up a single quad-core server box? Can we say “Kaching”?

  32. solar Legion says:

    @ 34 Do you have any idea how annoying it is to check the blog and leave a comment – usually to help another commenter – and see all the useless complaints?

    Don’t explain the issue yourself – link them to the blog. If they have questions, send them to the right source.

    The angry customer is a customer who has taken SL a wee bit too seriously. I myself get irked if a transaction fails … I do not rant and rave like a spoiled brat. If the transaction fails, I send a polite IM off at once and wait a few days, if nothing happens, I send a reminder if it is something I truly wanted.

    Foreign Users … No clue how to handle those – do your best.

    Pardon the way this sounds – but doesn’t that sound rather simple? Ignore the impolite IMs, help the polite customers when you can.

    A failed transaction is not the end of the world.

  33. Cyber King says:

    You are impacting our sex.

  34. Lina Pussycat says:

    @14 Ip theft is a tricky business since an IP can be as simple a thing as an Idea for something. And for the most part its pretty hard to control what is possible. Anything viewable on a computer screen has to go thru a graphics card or graphics chipset for rendering and that is where people are ripping it. There is no real way to prevent it other then OpenGL or DirectX’s programmers recoding the API to not allow it and it will likely get cracked.

    The best you can do is report IP theft or copyright theft properly like they have said to do. File DMCA reports etc….. This isnt that hard of a concept to grasp.

    To those complaining this is the first main stream release of Havok 4 grid wide. It is bound to run into problems and they will patch them. To those running on hardware that is no longer supported… it might be time to upgrade and also many laptops except for some higher end ones are not meant for gaming so stop trying to play on a laptop…. Your 1000 dollar dell laptop will not run this well…..

    Also as a side note there is no fix all for any application out there especially a system as complex as SL… There is and always will be bugs in software no matter what you do. Unless we all use all the same software and hardware configurations there is no 100% guarantee it will work the same for everyone and even then it will depend on computer care among other things….

  35. solar Legion says:

    @37:

    Phil does not often read the blogs, nor can he be expected to answer a comment, least of all one with the tone you present.

    You are the exact sort of customer that I dread ever getting once my own business gets off the ground – which won’t be for a few months. You’d be ignored until such a time as you are able to act in a polite and civil manner.

  36. Lollo Tomsen says:

    I agree with Renee and Jenta. All of us business owners wouldnt say any bad words if this happens only sometimes. But this problem goes 2-3 weeks now. And not a single time I heard the word “sorry” from Linden.

    Lindens, you are not holy cows. And many of your customers are unhappy with you.

  37. Keifer Pashinin says:

    After asset server failure I am having many issues with walking, flying, feet sinking, objects sinking, very slow log in time, rezing objects, taking objects and useing my gun in target practice. tried most everything incl. re start sim, delete SL from system and download again.
    One of my dear friends lost most of her inventory, is still lost and she was a business lady. My inventory is still “come and go” however it does rex in inventory tab after a few moments.
    Hello Second Life! Will we survive this breakdown?

  38. LL’s ability to fail at even the most basic levels never ceases to amaze me. You folks are the AOL of online virtual worlds. I hope you take that analogy to heart and alter your course.

  39. KMeist Hax says:

    Hrm… version 1.21? Strange… Are we no longer using the patch number to indicate releases?

  40. solar Legion says:

    Nope, I’d take it in stride considering that any SIM I’d ever get would not be for a business purpose. I’m here to interact, have fun, do a little Role Play and maybe make a little extra each month.

    Lose most of a SIM’s contents? Make a new theme and move on.

    Again, it’s not the end of the world.
    As for Phil? Don’t hold your breath for a reply in these comments – not going to happen. You’d have more luch harassing him in world or elsewhere.

  41. I am paying 1000 USD per week for advertising since December, I am one of their top 3 advertisers, i submitted a ticket 1 week ago and until today i haven’t received an answer yet.

    Yeah promises has been made and not kept
    Instead of keeping promises they are making dense and risky decisions to deploy a new engine during the biggest failure period ever, totally aware it wouldn’t fix the issues but provides a new risk of the unknown. I believe that Sidewinders work was professional and that he is one of the good Lindens but the timing of the deploy is nothing but Negligence! Again we are used to be the rat labs, i am loosing real frigging much money and so does everybody else.

    I am certainly done, nobody listens, only promises, nothing kept and things going south since a long time.

    They don’t understand how many spirits got broken this weekend, how can they, they aren’t residents of SL, they are just working for the company but the daily practices they don’t know nothing about!

    Help us to help you – show me the money – you got me at “login failure”

  42. Perhaps the fee structure should be tied to hours the grid is online? Then maybe LL would smell the coffee.

  43. Darien Caldwell says:

    That sounds like the beginning of the deploy of Intermezzo. I certainly hope it delivers the performance gains it promises. Will be watching with interest. 🙂

  44. les says:

    @ solar Legion, point taken. This is nothing but an unstable game that can delete your efforts in an instant and in no way a platform for business or any serious use. Thanks for clearing that up.

    as to Phil…he’s been stating stability as the focus for YEARS now. He’s a poster boy for ineffectiveness, lack of foresight and all around talking out of his can.

    Simply removing traffic would reduce the load on the system (camp/traffic bots) and allow things to work a little better. What is the reason not to? BIG NUMBERS on a sale sheet. Continue the BS and good luck with the cash out.

  45. Lina Pussycat says:

    @54 its doubtful that the site and the grid are that connected…. Network issues can happen with any online service at all. A good deal of SL issues stem from scalability being somewhat slow and then the bots/campers the exist this creates mass load and…. This fix is to help alleviate some of the issues during peak hours etc if it goes well hurray….

  46. Vivienne says:

    @ 27

    “Those of you who are too reliant on this and see that it keeps breaking down, don’t run your business in Second Life.”

    No, this is way too simple. First of all: If you rely on a car to get to your RL business, will you quit your business because there is a chance that the car will break down (in spite of the manufacturer promising by advertisement it will not happen)?

    Second: there are not sooo many people in SL who really rely on a SL business or income at all, only maybe a few hundred, which is obvious when you take a look on the “positve cash flow” statistics.

    Anyway. It is not nice when a provider like LL does not deliver the quality it promises. It is not nice when a provider like LL breaks several thousand computer systems using their software and service because of raising hardware demands without taking care of any continuinity (which is essential for a business platform of any kind).

    The essential questions regarding SL business si: Which way will LL go?

    Enabling people to run a SL business with the “metaverse” idea in the background, a business which will pays RL rent, taxes and all? And a wider scale of business than only virtual land speculations?

    Or will LL go the entertainment media way, where the looks of it are more important than the usability and continuity of a platform.

    In my opinion they are on the way to a pure entertainment platform. Stability and continuinity of SL do not seem to be a priority anymore, but Windlight and other shiny “improvements” raise hardware demands more and more to the level of high end pro gaming. At the moment i cannot really recommend anyone to start a business based on content creation or anything else but land speculation in SL.

  47. Traverse Janus says:

    The ISP problem this weekend was actually a sideshow, something Linden Labs could hang the problem on, and which may have led them down false paths. The asset servers have had serious problems for at least 2 weeks. My guress is that something in the simulator “upgrade” of March 19, the one that had to be aborted, plus the newer viewers, plus Windllight, plus Havok 4, plus every other change probably cumulatively broke the dataserver.

    Now we are promised ‘upgrades’ to the dataserver “in the next week or two”. I would imagine the hardware doesn’t take that long to get, so it seems there is going to be a lot more than plugging in more servers. There is much risk here. Why not simply revert to the Pre-March 19 condition until its done? And given the number of people leaving, reduce peak loads by disabling creation of new accounts until the servers are upgraded. Since there are times when 8 of 10 new arrival rez then leave the orientation areas without orientation, it probably won’t affect in world much.

    In SL I run a club. While it runs as a business, its really a framework for peole to get together and have fun. To be sucessful I need a few things. I need people to come in, and people to tip my dancers. That means I need payments to work, people being able to rez things, and people being able to long in and TP to where they need to be. Things have been affected badly for two weeks, and this weekend was very bad. Trying to get to the club has been so difficult it isn’t fun any more. Like Renee, I’m in danger of losing everything here.

    I’ve heard SL called a game, but it really isn’t. Its a way people react and relate to each other. Behind the “pixel people” are real human beings who are involved because its fun. Its stoped being fun, and when my friends leave because it isn’t fun, it gets worse than no fun, it gets painfu. How many residents are you willing to lose, Phil?

  48. Kittrannia Cassini says:

    Isn’t it about time a fail safe was put in for transactions..i.e. no payment is made until the servers have verified the items have been delivered.

  49. Ric Mollor says:

    If customers are truly dissatisfied with the current state of things at Linden Labs try voting with your feet and going someplace new. It appears very unlikely that things are going to change for the better in the near future and very likely that the level of service will decline as Second Life increasingly tries to compete with an ever growing number of free virtual worlds and free-to-play MMOs.

    The current list of alternate grids on the OpenSim wiki shows 950 sims in a variety of different grids. Seeing how many of those grids are commercial ventures it’s very likely that they will *welcome* refugees from Second Life with open arms and actually listen to comments. None require a download or install of software and only need the Second Life viewer to be ‘pointed’ at them to connect.

    Click on my name in this comment to get to the list of grids.

  50. Vivienne says:

    @ 59

    Promising. But as long as this relies on the giant patch of a totally borked patch of a patch of a patch of a patch plus sluggish implemented eye candy named “Second Life Viewer”… hum.

  51. Shai Khalifa says:

    I spend much of this last weekend in tears due to the total failure of my viewer to allow me to do anything constructive or managerial with my sims. My small business which helps to support the payment of live musicians, and contribute to my monthly sim fees is almost trading at 0L now having gone rapidly downhill for the past month.

    Priior to that it had been doing fairly ok – nothing great, just ticking along consistently.

    I’m now at the point where I’m looking pragmatically at this very expensive hobby of mine. I’m paying out around 400USD a month for software that doesn’t work, and is completely unrealiable and unpredictable. Why? The question I’ve been pondering this weekend.

    Probably because after having my place for nearly 18 months it’s become an important meeting hangout for a lot of people – most of whom are now good friends to me. To remove that hangout would impact on the lives of others in ways I never even knew until they all started telling me stories over the weekend – after I’d announced I was considering withdrawing from SL.

    So – I’ll stay for now, because of my friends – which may sound nuts to some, but stand for an hour in my shoes and listen to the stories – you’ll understand why I’ve decided to stick it out a little longer.

    That said – If things continue to degrade as they have over the past month in terms of performance, stabiity, reliability and predictability – I’m another long-termer who will leave.

  52. KellyM Watkins says:

    @6 Kentar

    Totally with you there. I have a whole garage full of cars that arent useable anymore. 😦 What a waste of $L (R) (C) (TM) that was 😈

  53. Renee Faulds says:

    @61

    well said and the trickle down effect has already started – not only does this effect you but that of everybody connect to you.

    Phil – you better get those poseballs snuffed up and open your “compensation” wallet cause your are loosing designers, builders, scripters – loose us – you loose it all dude.

    You OWE us.

    Renee Faulds

  54. Renee Faulds says:

    now that post is up I see some filtering going on – wow – at least ONE Linden is working, filtering the blog.

    Where you at Phil????

  55. @ #59
    they are not welcoming refugees with open arms one of the big guys is actually offering money to some creators to leave here and start there!

  56. Renee Faulds says:

    Grey Profiles Reported
    Monday, April 7th, 2008 at 5:21 PM by: Kate Linden

    Following the work done on Groups and Profiles, residents are reporting grey profiles. This is confirmed and we are now tracking down the cause. Relogging does work in some cases and we will update you here as soon as we have additional information.

    This entry was posted on Monday, April 7th, 2008 at 5:21 PM and is filed under -Miscellaneous, Bugs & Fixes, Customer Service, Resident Experience, Support Stats. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

  57. Reading these talkbacks is absolutely entertaining!

    For all of you who run businesses in Sl that rakes-in so much money that you depend on it – do what a good business person would do in RL – take stock of what is going on, regroup. Find an alternate way of doing business.

    It totally cracks me up when people throw out comments like “LL doesn’t deliver on their promises” – show me where Linden Lab promised you or me or anyone anything other th
    an access to their virtual world.

    Go to my link (post #18) – and you’ll see where I stand and maybe get a little common sense about running business while you’re at it.

    And remember – Linden Lab promises you NOTHING – other than access. I’ll be happy to admit I’m mistaken and wrong – as soon as anyone shows me on an official Linden Lab, Linden research or Second Life web page where they promise ANYTHING.

    Gawd i LOVE these blog posts!
    No one should allowed to have as much fun as this! 😀

  58. Oh… and I wonder if Linden Lab reports to the Internal Revenue Service all the money these business people cash out each month?

    LOL!

    WOOT!

  59. Solomon Devoix says:

    You may remember last year that LL named Nicolaz Bereford as the contributor of the year, for having found

    and/or solved so many vexing bugs and problems of the viewer. He’s the author of the so-called “Nicolaz

    Version” of the SL viewer. There are people today (including me) who still swear by his viewer as the most

    stable and workable viewer around.

    Here’s where the Lindens named him as their contributor of the year:

    http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/08/25/innovation-award-winners-announced/

    Like many other things that the Lindens break, though, people who selflessly give to the community are yet

    another of those things to be trampled upon when convient. From the blog of Nicolaz Beresford:

    “Today, after I heard through the blog comments here that 1.19.1 went gold, I wanted to give that a shot,

    but seeing that there isn’t any up to date source and hearing that a couple of people had trouble getting it

    to run out of the box, was the proverbial straw that breaks the camel’s back. I just one time too often

    stumbled over LL™’s inability to support their open source in the most basic way.

    [snip]

    When I started, I thought LL™ folks were just a bit overworked and with some outside help from a group of

    friendly open sourcers and code sorcerers the viewer would turn into a solid, stable and even sleek piece of

    software.

    The realization took me some time, but eventually it did dawn even on the optimist which I am, that it was

    not going to happen. Not through the Linden™s themselves. And certainly not through contributions from the

    coding community, because the Linden™s were increasingly ignoring the contributions.

    There was a time when contributions were readily accepted, then they were cherry picked and now, as far as I

    can tell, they are ignored at large, even if they are addressing the most basic and obvious problems like

    crashes (and I am not at all speaking of GUI changes).

    [snip]

    In technical terms, with the current state of the world, like daily outages on the server, new leaks in the

    viewer, other problems and now with even the binary crash reporter removed (this was the tool which I used

    to locate 90% of the crashes I found), it would be like starting all over and probably even worse.

    *sighs*

    Putting off the decision and hoping things would change again did work for some, but eventually I can’t

    ignore the facts. So let me be straight and say that they way things look now there won’t be any new builds

    from me. At the moment I simply don’t have the time, but to be true to myself and you, probably even if I

    had, I’d be no longer willing to put up with Bullshit™ any more.

    *sighs again*

    I am grateful for all the feedback I have gotten and also that I had the honor to help you people out there

    to have a better time in this alternate experience. I guess many people will be disappointed and I’m truly

    sorry for that.

    But things have changed a lot over the last few months and I want to move on. In fact I guess I alreay have

    …”

    http://nicholaz-beresford.blogspot.com/2008/04/moment-of-truth.html

  60. Renee Faulds says:

    get off on this bombshell Ari – LL just screwed a ton of people;

    Quarterly Land Supply and Island Pricing Update
    Monday, April 7th, 2008 at 5:25 PM by: Jack Linden

    As with my previous quarterly posts, here is an update on land, including supply, average prices, abandoned/defunct land and pricing information relevant to Q2 of 2008.

    This is a little later than I’d have liked, mainly due to one of the items, Island Pricing, needing a bit more time to finalize. I’ll come to that part shortly. It’s a long post, so join me after the cut..

    Land Supply

    The avera

  61. WarKirby Magoijiro says:

    This is confusing. This is server version 1.21, which is apparently being rolled out today.

    So then, why is v1.20.0.84105 on the beta grid, as per this post: http://blog.secondlife.com/2008/04/06/second-life-simulator-v120084105-pre-release-is-on-the-beta-preview/

    The version numbers would indicate it’s already obsolete. What’s going on ?

  62. Solomon Devoix says:

    Business as usual for LL. What else?

  63. Ekio says:

    I can only hope that the downtime will fix enough of the bugs that I can use SL. Granted I only get on for fun these days, I gave up on a business in world when I saw they were adding windlight and Hav 4 soon. I knew it was going to cause issue for the average user.

    Oh well.

  64. Tegg B says:

    Little Ming Says: “@3 That’s a ridiculous demand. Without first fixing and providing a stable platform it is impossible to bring in new features. ”
    Lol, That was funny BC, actually it is possible to add new features before fixing old, just get rid of old features 🙂
    Can we swap new avatar meshes for removing Traffic please? 🙂
    Then if we drop 15k of Traffic Bots and Campbots off the grid it will be stable again.

  65. Fellatione Aabye says:

    In the reader section of most ICT Magazines you can also Tell your story about your life with Linden Labs … (give them some bad press dear boys and girls)

    That They (Linden Labs) can t fix things they broke willingly and willfully … That s a problem we (The Residents) already learned to live with …

    SL is broken and borked most of the time … and Lucky me, I don t have a business to run …. I even don t plan a party anymore …. (as I know that Sl will fail .. and mostly on weekends … ) … and since a while i even dare to think that Linden Labs is doing it on purpose .. screwing up SL just before a weekend of holiday
    (are they jealous about the success of some parties organised by residents …. )

    Just mear thoughts ….

    But still enjoying SL whenever it can …

  66. Renee Faulds says:

    wow -you would think at least one Linden would answer @65

    they all have NO POSEBALLS

    Renee Faulds (remember me -you ran me out of business)

  67. Chris says:

    Woot! I’m 12 years old! Gawd I love patronisation! I shouldn’t have so much fun at other people’s expense! Woot! Check my linkback because I’m a genius there but here in the blog I woot! alot! Woot! I call everyone who moans uninformed because I make tea at LL! Woot! LOL!

    4 posts made by the satired poster above, all with nothing new to say. If you feel LL made no promises, you have your head in the sand. Read all of the Linden interviews given on viability of business in SL. Read more transcripts and not just the blog for your apparent entertainment value as you cheerlead us into the next century. Sure they aren’t SLA’s but they are words spoken and taken at face value. Remember back to Robin’s blogpost on ‘trust’? Pure opinion, but I think we’re seeing who we can ‘trust’ even without ID verification. Some people run businesses to cover tier, or even just a small fraction of it. Many of these businesses are contributing to the content, without which there would be nothing to do here, yet you slag them off for complaining when hard done for WEEKS at a time during Euro primetime? You have no conscience. If you cannot admit the last few weeks have been hard here, accept a little criticism as you run the afternoon tea up to Big Phil, you are beyond help. The reason so many aren’t pleased is simple, a saying about heat and kitchens comes to mind.

    Best of luck in the deploy Prospero.

  68. Polka Dot says:

    Second Life is a online based game/community/whatever and i can’t understand why people get go angry when things go down, it’s the internet! it’s machines! Personally those people who have multiple islands and stores and whatnot inly do that in second life because they don’t have the buisness sense in the real world…..or think SL is a cheap way out to make money.

    Oh, and i also noticed that the note for the billing line says non-technical support, i wonder how many calls they got over that weekend from the outage, poor souls, they get the brunt of calls and theres nothing they could have done about it =(

  69. Prospero Linden says:

    Hey all — sorry about not following up earlier. I’m not going to address everything individually, but I am going to address a couple of things.

    First : I’m not going to say anything about IP issues, be they trademark or DMCA issues. That’s off-topic for this post, *and* I’m very much not the one at Linden Lab to be talking about that.

    As for other issues:

    Did anyone at LL stop to think about the excessive load that Havok 4 would put on the servers before releasing it??

    Yes, decidedly very much yes. Havok4 had more than a million simulator hours (that’s the number I remember Sidewinder saying) of testing before we rolled it out to the whole grid. It was on Aditi for a long time, and for many months it’s been in the early adopter regions in the main part of Second Life.

    And, the stability of the grid *has* increased, markedly, in the last week. The rate of simulator crashes has plummeted. Yes, they still happen. But the primary source of crashes was issues intrinsic to the Havok1 physics engine, and the rollout of Havok4 has fixed that.

    The reason that we sometimes see issues when we roll out to the whole grid that we didn’t see in testing is simply the scale of the thing. Aditi, the beta grid, has some 30 hosts and at most about a hundred regions. Even during the early adopter program, we had at most several hundred regions running Havok4. These were extremely useful, and allowed us to find and solve a lot of issues with H4 so that it was quite solid when we rolled it out to the grid. However, the main grid has 17,000 regions and 4,000 hosts in it. When we finally get it to the main grid, subtle hard-to-find problems may well crop up that we couldn’t find earlier. In addition, there’s scaling issues. More than once we’ve had things that tested just fine, but when we got to the main grid made us realize that the load we were putting on the central server was more than it could handle. Yes, we think about these things, but it’s such a complicated system that we don’t always catch them. A fine example of this was last week’s second deploy to alleviate load on the logging back end.

    The memory allocation issue has been affecting some fraction of the openspace sims. We expect that this weeks rollout will alleviate those problems.

    Some of the other stability and security bugs actually don’t have anything to do with the Havok4 code itself, but are other issues in scripting and such that need to be fixed.

    Regarding the regular transaction failures and other sadness that we’ve been having: several things are in the works for that.

    * We are working on changing the configuration of our database servers in hopes that we can improve their performance. This is the reason for the service interruptions described in this blog post.

    * We are working on getting new hardware for the central database. This will help, but is of course only a stopgap, because as Second Life grows, eventually we’ll outgrow even new hardware. As somebody above asks, it actually isn’t a simple matter to “just get” new hardware; we don’t stroll down to Fry’s and get it. It’s a bit more involved than that; as you can imagine, this is an expensive bit of hardware, so we have to get the right thing. Once we have it, we have to get it up and make sure it works. Then we have to make the transition. You will hear more as we make more progress on this.

    * As somebody above notes, we’re beginning to roll out “Hetgrid Intermezzo”. That contains the changes to how regions are assigned to hosts mentioned in the original post. We’re going to be cautious turning the intermezzo functionality on, for all the reasons noted above. Intermezzo has been extensively tested, but not on a grid that has 17,000 regions, 60,000 users, and 4,000 hosts, because we only have one of those… the production grid. However, intermezzo does relieve one (though admittedly not all) of the pain points for our central database.

    * Other projects are in progress for changing our architecture to be less reliant on central database systems. This has been going on for a long time, in fact. Once upon a time, everybody’s inventory was stored on the central database. Now, we have a number of different inventory servers. This process of splitting things out continues; in fact, you can hear some of the design ideas behind it by attending the Architecture Working Group office hours led by Zero Linden. (There, “reducing database load” is not the focus, rather the bolder vision of making the architecture of the next-generation set of interoperable virtual worlds, but that design *will* also make it possible for us to better manage database resources.) In addition, the disabling of services (e.g. user and group profiles) that we regrettably have to do right now in order to get through the day actually leverages some code we’ve written that changes communication with our central data stores that, as we get both ends of the code fully implemented and tested, will reduce load on the central database.

    There is a lot in progress, and obviously we can’t give you details of all of them. But, believe me, we are hurting too as the database struggles near peak concurrency each day.

  70. Lars Donardson says:

    @68
    “Personally those people who have multiple islands and stores and whatnot inly do that in second life because they don’t have the buisness sense in the real world…..or think SL is a cheap way out to make money.”

    Where did u get your degree in arrogance?

    @Prospero
    “* Other projects are in progress for changing our architecture to be less reliant on central database systems”

    Three cheers to you guys who realized the need for that. Decentralized system are easier scalable, serviceable, resettable and most any other “-able” one can think of in conjunction with networks.

    “we are hurting too as the database struggles near peak concurrency each day.”

    *hands Prospero a HUGE pack of pain relievers*

  71. MW51 says:

    I agree with @70 about @68 except to say not arrogance but complete and utterly ignorant in all sense of the word. I think I would have to ask you to leave my RL business. 🙂 I would also add that for some this is thier RL business, you must have had your head on ahole for the last 5-6 year….

  72. Ravanne Sullivan says:

    The incredible ignorance of some peole never fails to amaze me. How they can think that a business supported by SL, which is a RL business of LL which itself is a RL business is not a RL business if it makes RL money is beyond me. I suppose they also feel that businesses lie Google, Yahoo or eBay just to name a few are not RL businesses since they operate in an online environment.

    Get a clue. Virtual businesses are the model of the future, its what LL claims it wants SL to be. Lets hope they can get their act together before they kill the dream.

  73. flux bashly says:

    one way to solve the hesitation is adjustable ‘formats’ because not everyone has a top of the line video and ram for this world so there may be an option of 5 levels of variable options level 1 being some top of the line pc with 5 gigs of ram (joking of course) down to 5 might be older systems with 512k of ram

  74. Pingback: Second Life Italia Blog » Blog Archive » Tra le 16 e le 17 di oggi, fuori uso i principali servizi di Second Life

  75. Whisper says:

    w00t!! this is why i went premium again 🙂 these guys are fixing stuff, they just don’t stop working!

    Go lindens!!!!!!!!!

  76. @ Flux;

    I think you meant 512MB of ram and not 512k 😉 I think there would be a lot LESS complaining if Second Life ™ could run on a 512k machine (I actually remember that wasn’t too long ago(a 512k machine(I know; showing my age again…tsk tsk)))

  77. Pointside Sunbelter says:

    Little Ming!?!?!?
    Have you been sipping back on grandpa’s cough syrup? 😉

    In entry 9 you referenced @10, clearly an entry that had not been written yet, and then in 13 you referenced back to yourself @13

    I’m better check to see if you referenced me yet, before I hit submit. 🙂

  78. Sling Trebuchet says:

    “The goal is to partially alleviate the problems we’ve been having recently near peak concurrency.”

    Hmmmm – “*partially* alleviate” – so we will continue to have peak problems, Groups and Profiles disabled, grey maps, maybe even Search throttled

    One way of avoiding the overload would be to limit logins.
    Whatever happened to:
    http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/02/16/contingency-measures-to-ensure-service-as-second-life-grows/

    ??

    I have every confidence that LL will bring the servers and network up to a level that will support a concurrency 60,000 or 70,000 in a few weeks. I’m an incurable optimist.

    But – this time around – could we please try to plan ahead for what happens when we get to 80,000 ? to 90,000 ?
    Will this be the last time that LL are surprised that high concurrency causes high database load?

  79. Line Estare says:

    Will you start to do something about CONTENT THEFT? You wrote an elaborate blog about your own trademarks and copyrights – when will you start to care about ours?

  80. Designer Himmel says:

    Hmmmm… limit logins… who are you going to limit? The customers? The shop owners? or just say that at… ummmm… 50K… no one else gets in?
    Say what you will… I’m with the majority – fix the problems and introduce new things SLOWLY and CAREFULLY after COMPLETE testing. When a new viewer goes to the main grid, BETA TEST it – and if it has problems – BACK IT OUT – as LL promised to do many moons ago – until it is fixed. Then retest and fix until it is right.
    THEN put it out on the main grid as a usable program
    Call me an idiot, but that’s the way every major business in the world – that doesn’t want to lose money or customers – implements new ideas and programs.
    Sorry… that probably sounds too easy on the users, and too simple to identify and correct the problems.

  81. @75 You can only wish they were ACTUALLY fixing things..

    Temp fixing items is not an actual fix.

    How long has money been broken?
    How long now have TP’s failed?
    How long now has there been problems with friends list?
    How long now has there been problems with group chats?

    Fixing something means it actually works correctly. Would you like Linden Labs to be your auto mechanic. They fix your car & you drive away & 20 mins all those sames things are broken again. But they told you it has all be RESOLVED…

    Sure glad there isn’t too many other companies that operate like LL in the world. If there were everything be breaking every hour & every hour we would get told its RESOLVED.

    Linden Labs has IMPROVED a few things not FIXED them!!!!

  82. Mike Dubienski says:

    Look guys, just chill out, I’m sure they are taking care of it. The last person they want to hear complaining is you guys. This is JUST a game, relax and enjoy your first life while your second life is being repaired.

  83. alf lednev says:

    #69 we don’t see SL hurting at all, perhaps SL can stop collecting tiers etc for a month or two to compensate all those who are losing real money every month.

    Inventory lose bought with real money, Linden’s care factor beyond carefully worded platitudes equals zero. Why can’t Lindens compensate users for faults in their product that cost real money? Are they “different” from R/L companies cos they operate in a cyberspace, oh wait! they collect real money, they aren’t!

    *grins* Its our world perhaps we should be allowed to say which Linden’s deserves paying? ( Just being silly, anarchism doesnt work, storming Lindens with pitchforks and flaming trches would be way more fun anyways)

    The “woe is us” tale of the problems at #69 mereley highlights incomptenet planning. (the business world is harsh, learn to deal with it).

    As the Americans say “suck it in” or as the Australians say the “Law of the Seven P’s” “Proper prior planning prevents piss poor perfrormance” Lindens as an organistaion is an example of how not to manage a business. Figures like a million hours testing, yeah right. If its released and doesnt work, then all that time eating pizzas and sipping coffee means the code was not checked fully. If it fails on release, then testing was a failure. simple really. If testing failed, the the Project Team failed. Sadly it’s the users who give money every month who are the only ones to suffer. Cull some staff may work, a novel approach. Things busted for months, even years and no one responsible? Hmmmmmmmmm, a sheltered workshop if there ever was one.

    The whole company projects and aura of arrogance and incomptence (yes there are some excellent Lindens but they get tarred with the same brush by association).

    A Linden is going to have a *talk* Thursday “Be still my beating heart!” The blogs are full of consistent complaints that NEVER get acted upon. A short talk with an avie, big deal, Open a blog page specifically for issues, moderate it to cull out the geeks who need to post a dozen times, read it and act on it.

    Better yet, go back analyse all the existing complaints, find the threads, find out who was allocated to fix them and have them speak as to why they haven’t. Shine the spotlight a bit more on the drones in the back, we pay money, we have a right to service and answers.

    Everything that has been screamed in frustration disappears into a Linden black hole, hence the perception of useless IT geeks in star trek suits.

    Second Life is a commercially released computer game, nothing more. The company makes profit from it yet consistently fails to deliver a quality of service to the customers who pay. It survives only because its a monopoly at this point in time, but competition is coming and it will disappear and it will be the staff and management’s fault for alienating so many paying customers.

    Yes it markets well for all the IT geeks who think dabbling on an online game makes them important, (get out of the basement guys!) but it fails utterly in dealing with the needs of the vast majority of its members.

  84. I’d like to know whos bright ideal it was to make this new lighting?
    Oh yes I can still make all the stuff look the way it was designed to look by adjusting MY sun settings, so its either noon or midnight. But to except a user/BUYER to go around and have to adjust the settings by doing different times of days so that products look the way they were DESIGNED to look is only a GREAT ideal for a MORON !!!

    FIX what you have and STOP tring to add NEW things.

    Use a 500$ computer to design it and test it before releasing it to your users.

    And Actually see what it does and looks like in world before patting yourself on the back…….

    Millions of Items no longer look as the Designers intended… Most now look like trash at certian times of day.

    1000’s of Scripts NO Longer work…

    People are worried about spending money buying anything for half the time their purchases are not sent or they just go POOF…

    The World is watching as you take a product/program that could have revolutionized the internet and interactive sales and marketing and trun it into a worthless peice of trash!!!

  85. FireBox Honi says:

    don’t think I saw this in any of the other comments but I didn’t have a choice on doing this update to 1.2 I couldn’t log back on unless I did it and I was still having major issues from the last one, ya not as much lag but whats with the blue clouds that are coming from everyone will it ever work as good as it did4 months ago because it hasn’t gotten better its only made my experience in SL worse at this point I have stopped telling friends to try it

  86. Tristin Mikazuki says:

    uumm is this gona happen tonite?

  87. Cereal Milk says:

    So yeah. Color me un-“dazzle”d. You guys have learned absolutely nothing about maintaining the client since the days of 1.4.

    Go ahead and delete me for being off-topic; if you do, at least I know a Linden read it. If I was paying money for Second Life, I’d be very angry.

  88. WarKirby Magoijiro says:

    Prospero. Some people do have a valid point about the contingency plan. Concurrency grows and grows, and there have been many times recently when it seems like capping concurrency would ensure a stable service.

    I have a premium account, and so I should be able to get in when such logins are restricted. Why is the login restriction not being used? And will it ever?

  89. Kazuma says:

    WTF did you do to the RC viewer UI?!?!?! OMGawd its HORRID…put it back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  90. Renee Faulds says:

    (None of these changes are related to the long outage we had last Saturday; that was a networking issue with our networking provider, and didn’t have anything to do with the Second Life code itself.)
    Categories: Announcements & News

    Can you provide me the phone number so I could call and ask their side of the story?

    Renee Faulds

    Linden Labs Drove Me Out For Corporate Accounts

    Phil? Where are your pose balls ???????

  91. Crash, send report, crash, send report, crash, send report. Lovely.

  92. Lozlo Peng says:

    Prospero Linden, because of this database thing I had inventory problems and now I have suffered inventory loss; what I have lost is not coming back. It just whiped itself from secondlife when it got detached by the Release Keys button. Prospero Linden, what do I do now? How do I recover/ request an account rollback?

  93. Lozlo Peng says:

    it’s not replaceable, i need a rollback

  94. Kula Anatine says:

    this will get deleted because of off topic dazzle is so bad and Bright lights and big city here it comes no way is LL going to spend time money and effort not to release dazzle so here it comes no options to change no second main viewer just a big ego from LLs saying like or log there are some good fixes but of what good are they if i cant see SL to enjoy them Second life created by its residents run by those who dont listen to the wants and needs of the world they created Dazzle most computer that cant run windlight gambling banks age verify land steeling bots ignored second life trademark tos the coming of emperor Phillip no freedom in SL or real life

  95. Sheylyra Loire says:

    Ok Folks, during the Patch our Land got an Reset, the entire Lanscape my Mate had put so much Love and Work in is destroyed, you Hurt my Love a great deal with that and that is a thing i cand stand, so repair the Dammage you had done.

    Sheylyra Loire
    Bunny Revolution
    http://slurl.com/secondlife/Lyrebird/166/230/20

  96. Prospero Linden says:

    Hmmmm – “*partially* alleviate” – so we will continue to have peak problems, Groups and Profiles disabled, grey maps, maybe even Search throttled.

    The reason we say “partially alleviate” is that because the changes included in this release do not represent everything we have in progress to improve the scaling of our central database system. There are a number of other things in progress– both things to reduce the immediate pain, and projects that will allow us to scale to a much larger size than we are right now.

    Re: use of blocking those without payment info on file, that is another option we have, but that’s an even more severe option than the temporary disabling of some services, and as such we view it as a measure of last resort.

    Sheylyra @94 : in fact, we haven’t begun the patch deploy yet. I don’t know what happened to your land, but if you have problems like that please contact support.

  97. Phil Priestman says:

    Will the avatar “hopping”, having to jump to get on a step, and sliding down hills when your just standing there be fixed as well as the vehicles physics?

  98. Raven Primeau says:

    One thing I/’m sure Prospero and the rest have to consider I’m sure is that much of SL business and many land owning residents are *non payment* buying or renting land from other than LL *avoiding VAT Tooo!*sso closing them out when busy would be very counterproductive. Throttling vital services is a dodgy decision at best, ideally fixing things so the actually worked.

    *as an aside, now you can’t map your friends on the RC *frazzle* viewer from the map itself and can only do so from their profile then you are borked from doing such during the said peak conncurrency periods. Not the best thinking, not the most pleasant of viewers either, I run the RC for the bugfixes, just a pity its so glaringly hideous as well.

  99. it is now almost 2 weeks since the H4 deploy, and scripts are still borked. I can get some of them to work, but most are uncooperative. It would be nice to let developers know what is happening… Most of my creations use ||Target Omega for rotation, and now pretty much NONE of them work. I found a temp fix, but that only seems to work on random objects, and not all. PLEASE fix the scripting problem, as MANY content creators can no longer create, and the amount of clients contacting us (for replacements) is getting rather large now….

  100. Phil Priestman says:

    I used to be a paid member until I realized all I was doing was throwing good money after bad. I’m not about to waste money on something that constantly breaks down and its usually the same issues over and over.

    “Frazzle” (good description there Raven) is totally useless to me. It does nothing whatsoever to improve my experience in game. At least voice and WL has some practical value.

  101. You call the last three or four weeks a very minor hitch? LMAO.

    Get real guys. Hey, I see we are going to have some meetings on the fiasco of 1.19, don’t you think that might have been done BEFORE you made it mandatory after just two delays, even with blog posts, JIRA and other comments saying it was causing massive problems? And you’re not stopping are you?

    Cautiously and in stages? Like a partial rollout, on a Monday, the slowest day while everyone waits for you to fix the weekend borks, wait one day and roll out the rest? Or the cautiousness of said 1.19 viewer? Roll it out, get back comments from 50% saying it’s worse, so a day later make it mandatory without fixing a single thing? That’s your definition of cautious? I suggest you run out and buy a new dictionary, you know, one of the sort that everyone else uses, because your own is not right.
    Now we have Dazzle on a 1.20 viewer, but hey, wait a minute, it won’t work on Macs with a Mighty Mouse, which is practically all bar laptops (and if they adhered to Apple standards would not have this problem in the first place) and is missing the Tool Menu for all, and yet this is down as a RC not a Beta? Do you actually have any QA there in place boys? Hello? Grid calling LL.

  102. And where is Philip’s promise from January, to concentrate on stability rather than new unwanted shinies that are borking and overloading the system even more? Plainly lies. We’ve had far less stability and nothing but bug ridden shinies actually forced on us for the first time since you switched to Het Grid. Thanks.

    Mind you, you promised not to roll out major changes on Fridays too, but you keep doing that as well. Don’t you ever keep your word? How can we ever trust you when you break that, and then just keep adding on more stuff that just breaks things yet again.

    I mean you KNOW how bad the asset servers are at the moment don’t you? So what do you do? Add in more shinies that require more data and overload it, plus have a whole new mainland continent plugged in and ready to go via your new fangled web store (be amazed if that works, nothing else from LL ever does lol) adding on db load. Have you considered all that may have caused the problems of the last few weeks, on top of server code borks?

    I mean some of us would prefer to have tps and transactions and deliveries that work, inventory that doesn’t disappear, and the comms fixed you broke taking it external in 1.15 while promising us better (anyone actually think that Group IMs with its lag and posting errors is any better than before?).

    Still, I suppose the noobs won’t know, and as more old people leave, you can continue your Ponzi.

  103. I mean if you truly did test Havok4 for a million hours, as you claim, why did you not pick up something so simple as flying or falling over low objects, or when getting to the top of stairs? Or fixing vehicles? Or having rotations broken? That’s about the limit of physics I see, and so for me Havok has made things far worse and more irritating. I’d actually rather it rolled back, like Windlimp, which is creating a two tier society. Let alone breaking colour matching for every clothing designer and builder out there.

    Both are full or borks and bugs and were far from prime time, and you were told that, but you pushed on ahead anyway regardless, as you always do. Only this time you compounded it by making it mandatory. It’s over a year since Open Letter, and people were telling you way before that, but Open Letter was the last straw for many.

    FIX the core stuff first before adding yet more shinies.
    FIX THE CORE STUFF FIRST.

    And in case you didn’t get it, FIX THE CORE STUFF FIRST!!!

    We don’t want database fixes AFTER the fact that may or may not bring their own borks and not alleviate the problem. Most companies put in extra and spare infrastructure capacity first, not max it out to death state, and add more in as an afterthought.

    Funny, that it is only since Active Users numbers stayed static, and in fact started dropping (yes, Second Life is shrinking not growing, download the Key Metrics for the last 10 months), that you have panicked enough to pretend to listen to users, and rush out some appallingly badly thought out measures (like island price drops) because you are running around like headless chickens.

    What you are doing will not save it, you are hammering in the last few new shiny nails in the coffin boys. New payment methods and language support is a bit late after those people have left in droves.

  104. Ree Indigo says:

    [Update 2008-08-09]: <— you realize that you’re being Lindenish with a date three months in the future, yes?

  105. ISLAND says:

    Actually I think the lowering in prices for SIMs is just the start of a new area in secondlife. With the opengrid comping up, where people can host a SIM for free, Secondlife needs to lower its prices to be able to compete with that. Everyone knows the prices of islands are ridiculously high compared to what is really costs to have one up.
    Seeing how this started, I expect the prices of sims to fall even more the next Q. They probably go down and down till a fair price has been reached. So to those who are happy with the price drop now, consider the next quarter your SIm may lose value too.

  106. WOW. LL Crystal Ball is in play (read date):

    “[Update 2008-08-09]: We found a very minor hitch as we began the deploy– this is why we do these things cautiously and in stages now. We have postponed the rolling restart again. Watch this space for updates as to when it will actually happen.”

  107. Can someone rewrite this post?

    The ‘Updated’ updates and date errors have rendered it beyond comprehension.

    Many thanks

  108. pantaiputih korobase says:

    what an incredible slow download of the new RC

  109. pantaiputih korobase says:

    @104, it is not about the price of purchasing some land, but about the maintenance (what maintenance, btw??), i.e. tiers. tiers count – they should be decreased due to lack of service/performance/outage etc etc

  110. pantaiputih korobase says:

    actually, the new UI in 1.20 is not as bad as I thought when having read all the comments about it

  111. ISLAND says:

    @108

    As soon as the opengrid services become better, Linden Labs will have to make service better, or ask less money. They try to make as much money now as they can, but if there is competition they cannot keep the prices up, or people will leave. As soon as opengrids stability gets better than they do, they will have to fix it, or people will leave. Fair competition makes a better market.

    Just don’t invest too much in sims to make money on the long term, you never know what this world will be like in a year time 😉

  112. Taff Nouvelle says:

    Thanks so much LL, you have cured my problem of spending too much time on line in one fell swoop. I can no longer stay on and work, I can sit quietly, no problem, then when I try to work, I crash. The cure for this was to use the test viewer which was very stable, so you changed that, now that crashes all the time as well.
    Shame I spent $2000 on a high spec gaming computer, and bought 3 islands as well, I am only down $4000 so far, what comes next I wonder.
    One very dissatisfied customer, ooops soryy, its a game isnt it, I am not really a customer that gives you many thousands of dollare a year, just s game player.

  113. ISLAND says:

    @83
    I’d like to know whos bright ideal it was to make this new lighting?
    Oh yes I can still make all the stuff look the way it was designed to look by adjusting MY sun settings, so its either noon or midnight. But to except a user/BUYER to go around and have to adjust the settings by doing different times of days so that products look the way they were DESIGNED to look is only a GREAT ideal for a MORON !!!

    FIX what you have and STOP tring to add NEW things.

    Use a 500$ computer to design it and test it before releasing it to your users.

    And Actually see what it does and looks like in world before patting yourself on the back…….

    Millions of Items no longer look as the Designers intended… Most now look like trash at certian times of day.

    People are worried about spending money buying anything for half the time their purchases are not sent or they just go POOF…

    The World is watching as you take a product/program that could have revolutionized the internet and interactive sales and marketing and trun it into a worthless peice of trash!!!

    –> luckily most people who have a medium or lower end videocard have the windlight wash out turned off by default. Though I have a higher end videocard I turned off the new windlight effects too. I hate it when my walls all of a sudden become orange or white, and their texture is washed away completely.

    I love the avatar impostors glow and water effects windlight has but the new windlight shaders are just too much.

    To turn windlight texture washing out off, go to preferences, select graphics and turn off ‘atmospheric shaders’. That way you don’t get the ugly washed out textures anymore.

    Windlight atmospheric shaders are only nice when you are outside on an island, inside homes or on buildings it looks terrible. *shrugs* Its a good thing people can turn it off.

  114. LoLo says:

    @ PROSPERO LINDEN

    (quote) First : I’m not going to say anything about IP issues, be they trademark or DMCA issues. That’s off-topic for this post, *and* I’m very much not the one at Linden Lab to be talking about that (end quote)

    Where IS the linden that is responsible for DMCAs and trademarks? Is there one?
    No wonder people post off topic, the issue has never been ON topic for linden labs. When will this problem ever get attention?

  115. Shadowen Silvera says:

    I challenge LL to have one stable month. I mean that you would give the residents one month of no updates, no network issues, no grid-wide type problems. I don’t think you can do it. This is why we are so upset. We love the potential of SL but we never get to realize it because it is not STABLE. We can’t schedule events with any kind of reliability. We cant work on our projects at times when we are best able to work on them. We cannot reliably collaborate.. What is the point in investing time and money into something that cannot be predicted? I CHALLENGE YOU TO ONE MONTH OF STABILITY!

  116. richard says:

    april 10 2008 i was just on line was is second life so jerky?

  117. richard says:

    and dont say its my computer i’m getting tired of hearing that!!!!

  118. Nevermind says:

    To everyone who rightfully complains about the instability, the bugs and the crappy service: You are totally right, and I know it feels good to let off some steam. Alas, it’s pretty pointless. The blog will soon be filled up with comment disabled entries, office hours moved around the grid for a filler post, or something positive in the face of burning assets like a pointless contest or SL holiday.

    The best feedback you can give is not commenting at all. Leave the blog entries empty except for the usual 3 hurrays by fanbois, who will stop posting too once they can’t troll understandably upset customers anymore. Utter lack of feedback says more than words; the corporate eye knows how to read that.

    A business relationship with Linden Lab™® on mature terms is impossible and a dialog has proven to be pointless. They know what’s best for us, decide above our heads and have this weird idea of disciplining paying customers. All you can do is to treat them on equal terms. Ignore them, no feedback of any sort, and discipline them if they mess up too much – press, courtrooms, whatever seems appropriate when the sinking ship is about to hit the ocean floor.

  119. Prospero Linden says:

    Regarding feedback : I’m not going to directly address feedback that is obviously nothing but venting, grousing, and slurs toward Linden Lab. However, if you do see problems with the server or the viewer, please see http://www.secondlife.com/support for support, and if it’s a real issue, search http://jira.secondlife.com to see if it’s already filed, and file a new issue if it’s not. If you have questions about the server deploy itself or the rolling restart, feel free to post them here, and as I am able I will address them.

    Regarding the demand to be “up for a month”, that’s not realistic. We have bug fixes to roll out, as well as new features coming. These new features aren’t all “new shinys” as some say, but frequently are features needed for scaling and stability. Havok4 is one such; Mono is another. The “intermezzo” being rolled out with this rolling restart is yet another. A perfect month would be a month where we didnt’ have any unplanned downtime, and where we did 2 or 3 rolling restarts that went off as planned. With Havok4, our simulator crash rate has dropped dramatically.

    Bear in mind that this is a post about the server deploy. This isn’t the right place to ask about Dazzle or other viewer issues, as it’s not relevant to this post, and I’m not the right person to answer those questions.

  120. Sindy Tsure says:

    Thanks for the updates, Prospero! Please keep them coming!!

  121. JeffB says:

    For everyone complaining, SL is a GROWING PROCESS. I’m not an apologist for LL by any means. However, in comparison to where they were 3 years ago, they have come quite a long ways and makes me happy.

    To the folks who have never had to been logged off every time sims needed to be restarted, who weren’t screwed out of an ENTIRE weekend(literally, not a few hours here and that translates to an entire weekend in your minds eye) and having to deal with WEEKS of the world being gray, nothing but gray. These are huge advancements. Now LL relies on the fact that a large number of folks are and will be new to SL, so some major changes they’ll never know about. At the same time, the newer folks have never experienced how bad things were. If you’re just going to biatch and whine nonstop.. well, if you make it to being around in 3 years, I think you may see where I’m coming from. Yes, it is a pain in the butt, but the pain you’re experiencing is much less than the long term SL members have experienced.

    I don’t even want to think about the past stories those that have been here since the beginning can tell. All I can say is that the system is vastly improved where these complex tasks can happen while keeping you online, even with limited operability, and keeping you from having to find what to do with 3-6 hours of your otherwise boring as hell lives, like mine. HAND and take a deep breath lovelies. 🙂

  122. I don’t know if this has anything to do with the work described in the original post…. but I am unable to access the web site at all from New Hampshire (Verizon DSL.) The servers are pingable… and I can log into the non-secure content on the web sie via a proxy server. I also can’t submit a support ticket. (This is around 8:45pm LT Thursday 10 April)

  123. Well, funny thing Prospero, you aid that about 1.19 and 1.20, the ones that allowed Havok 4 and Windlimp in, and what have we had? Four weeks of the worst stability ever, all sorts of things not working from tps, transactions, delivery failures. In fact all of the old issues we have been complaining about – and which the Open Letter addressed a YEAR AGO, and people were at the end of their tether then – except now we have new borks like prims failing to link, all the Havok bugs like TargetOmega, vehicles, falling at the top of stairs and stumbling over objects.

    Now we have Windlimp that 50% can’t use without buying a new computer, an appalling viewer in 1.19 that as soon as it became apparent you had major problems with, you made mandatory! The replacement is already in RC, despite the fact it cuts out a whole platform, and doesn’t have the tools menu. RCs are supposed to be for minor tweaks when all is working well, not alpha software with great gobs of functionality missing.

    Now you are cutting out major functionality at peak hours because 1: after 4 attempts you still cannot get the asset servers working properly, and yet 2: you keep on adding new shinies that want even moe database entries and 3: you cram yet more on the grid.

    Oh and you do this on Fridays which you repeatedly promised you wouldn’t do. Then, not only the land price fisaco, but you admit you have a whole new continent (as if a half empty world isn’t enough) plugged in and ready to go further borking up the entire asset system.

    And you expect people to pay for this? I guess not, since you seem quite happy to have lost a third of your European customers, and even Active Users in the US have dropped the last two months. Now I’ll tell you something for free. It wasn’t because they were upset at not having Havok and Windlimp. It’s because the thing doesn’t work, you don;t listen, you took away support, you have no language support and a host of others, which only now, after we have begged and begged and begged, but most have already left, have you decided to start implementing.

    You guys are just insane, and need to be fired.

  124. So, if I get this right, don’t use a laptop, which more than 50% of people buy as main machine now, don’t use Macs, ATi cards, Intel cards, hey maybe not even nVidia for 1.19, don’t use a mouse either. Not exatly much target market left is there?

    Well, the 6 of you left in your US sandbox, have fun y’all…

  125. TXGorilla Falcone says:

    Hello all… Not just the Lindens
    I started reading the posts for this and got past the 10th one and each onne has struck a nerve… Yall complane about them not adding new features? Cmon Yall… They can add all the new features in the world but without some stability thouse features arnt worth the code there based upon… Quit Crying becouse this and that hasent been added yet…. better yet YOU add them and see how easy there job is… And no I am by no means a LL hugger but I do respect all they do for us.
    And as a side note Havoc4 IS a new feature that has been waited on for over 4 years that I know of. Ohh and yall IM Jeff. Tell him Duh Huh he will know what I mean. Yall have a great day now.

  126. Elvis Orbit says:

    @122 “Well, funny thing Prospero, you aid that about 1.19 and 1.20, the ones that allowed Havok 4 ”

    UMM Havok 4 has been on the grid since Jan in the early adopter program and was not added viewers… You don’t and didn’t need a special viewer for havok4. Havok 4 and the date of that viewer release grid wide just were close. Even 1.18 runs havok4, because havok 4 is server side.

  127. Angelic Greenwood says:

    /sigh

    I wish you all would come on with it already. My SL crashed now I can’t log on due to the region being logged out, (or that’s what the error box told me).

    You guys need to do what any other company does. You have a set time during the day, whether it’s updates every day, every week, every month, whatever, and you follow those times (10-12pm SLT) or whatever. It saves alot of griping complaining, and for the most of us that look at the site, we’ll know ahead of time when to not log on, or when to log off.

  128. Razor says:

    Where is the right Linden to ask questions about the DMCA? Is there any?

  129. Angelic Greenwood says:

    Back in game….can’t teleport. /taps foot

  130. magnus says:

    Login FAiled … Login Failed .. Login Failed …. Login Failed. You are failing. but keep up the good work, I love paying $295 a month to be ass raped. LL youare the best!

  131. Eren Padar says:

    Thursday, 10:15pm. Cannot log in.

  132. Angelic Greenwood says:

    Search is also not working.

  133. Wheelerwod Oppewall says:

    Puffy clouds and reflection in water really compliment the lag and the crashes. News Flash! I need a grid that I can film on without a ton of &%^$@ lag! Oh ya as if I haven’t paid enough to you in tier fees. I now have to fork over $ to Apple for a new system if I want to film in Windlight. And since my clients what that and if I have to if I want to keep my vid business open. I drop the cash. There goes my island. LL there are ppl in the world who own Mac’s How about making SL a bit more kind for Mac Machines.

  134. Darling Brody says:

    HAY!!!

    I don’t like the new restart process. When you fly from one region that is restarting to another one that is restarting, you dont get a second warning about the new location restarting too.

    I was sent back to real life without warning and it was tramatic.

  135. Troy says:

    Weak Stupid cilent now cant log in. Cilent says online but wont let me. site says offline. which is it? Cant do a darn thing right you lindens. TURN LOG IN ON!

  136. I was in the middle of posting on the Jira about some bugs with the permission system I found. When I went to post, it told me that “The credentials you provided cannot be determined to be authentic.”

    I cannot log in with my acount, nor my alternate account.

    I also get Failed messages when trying to log into SL.

    Can someone please tell me what’s going on?

  137. Angelic Greenwood says:

    I wouldn’t really worry about loggin’ in guys, even if you get in, you can’t TP and you can’t search. It’s useless to be on it with the shape it’s in.

  138. Angelic Greenwood says:

    @ 135

    Oh LL decided they wanted to do a bunch of stuff and gave everyone the last minute warning basically.

  139. Ann Otoole says:

    nice job. website is down, logins are down. what else did you turn off by mistake since you failed to say you were disabling the entire system for this?

  140. How about the fact that I haven’t been able to purchase anything in-world for the past 5 minutes?

    Why is LL so concerned with updates when we can’t even use what we already have?

  141. You know, my Jira post was at least 2 full pages long. If I hadn’t been smart enough to copy and paste it into notepad before hitting post I’d be a very angy person right now.

  142. eku Zhong says:

    phhht regions down? i would say the whole kaboodle is down.. cant log in anywhere

  143. sniff sniff says:

    God with all these outages and failed logins, Solitaire on Windows is going to becaome a huge hit with me once again.

    pouts

  144. Ryder Spearmann says:

    SL is going down hard…. no TPs
    transactions going stale…

    How does one tell LL such things anymore?

  145. Forget about buying things…

    Can LL PLEASE start announcing things in world for us that aren’t constantly glued to the blog? I would rather log out and make sure all my items and money are safe instead of getting a string of stale transaction errors and not knowing if I’m going to get my items or if I’m going to end up buying the same thing 5 times.

    IN WORLD MESSAGES PLEASE!!

  146. Usagi Dagger says:

    Log in fails… Dang it

  147. Since JIRA is down I propose it here:

    Please give us something on the Startup Page that gives us a good idea of how HEALTHY the grid is at any point in time. Simply saying it’s ONLINE when it’s obviously broken is not enough.

  148. Rolling Restart... says:

    Rolling Restart in Progress…

    1.19 was ROCK SOLID until we found out we that 1.20 was ROCK SOLIDER and skipped it and went with 1.21 cause its ROCK SOLIDEST!

    YAY FOR ROCK SOLID!

  149. ShuHo says:

    I cant log in. Keep getting a login fail message. It says on the log in screen 34,000 people are online. How when i cant get on?

  150. Silk Aeon says:

    Perfect. again. Login failed. new day again and again again and again.

  151. Midorii Akina says:

    Ya! Thanks for the warning! Next time, please send an Inworld message saying there will be an intense lagspike and all of your friends will crash, but you won’t, EVEN THOUGH YOU’VE GOT THE CRAPPIEST COMPUTER OF EM ALL!

  152. Fellatione Aabye says:

    ahum … 500 Regions? ??

    Why then … Grid down?
    From now on a new way to get into Second Life …

    1. keep some very strong tranquilizers at hand
    2. If you are religious set a small Prayer to your prefered God
    3. Log in onto the blog first (you never know what information you get there)
    4. Double click the Icon of Second Life on your Desktop
    5. Repeat 2 … or start taking 1
    6. If very lucky .. after some waiting time you are into SL

Comments are closed.