1.19.1 Viewer – a love/hate relationship??

Fellow Residents! I want to talk- with YOU!

We’ve gotten a lot of feedback on the good and bad in 1.19.1. As I’ve been perusing the comments and feedback, I’m finding that they basically fall into one of three categories-

  • Genuinely faulty behavior
  • Behavior that can be fixed using very simple steps (oftentimes in the Graphics Preferences tab)
  • Patently wrong or misunderstood perception of behavior (I like those the best – easiest to solve 😉 )

So, I want to chat with as many of you as possible in an impromptu office hour session held tomorrow, Thursday April 10th, at 12:00pm-2:00pm SLT at Brampton Stage. Now, before you all jump on me for not considering non-US time zones, know that if this turns out well I’ll hold these again next week at a substantially shifted time (alas, my poor beauty sleep 😦 )

My objectives here will be fourfold-

  • To hear the worst and most often-experienced problems
  • To help you with your current problems
  • To explain our design decisions and what good they will soon bring (like avatar lighting)
  • And, lastly, to discuss our future plans and get your input

I’m doing this mostly because PJira has become backlogged and, as the PM for much of this, I can directly influence the bugs worked on and the development process as it unfolds. Not promising miracles here, but at least a more direct way to get your satisfaction with the viewer as high as possible.

Why do this? Well, again, as PM (Project Manager) here, I know what good lies in the code- mostly stability, believe it or not- and I want to ensure that that gets across in the product, even if it’s only a few of you who are experiencing problems. We’ve been monitoring statistics, and crash rates and framerates are better than the 1.18 viewers- no joke. I just want to ensure that’s the case for as many of you as possible. Lastly, as a graphics industry guy, I want to talk to all of you about the direction we need to go to get to the future of SL. Lighting models, rendering paradigms, material systems- there’s a lot of complex stuff going on, and I want to break it down for anyone who’s interested.

So, come bearing pitchforks or bouquets- but come!

[EDIT – Just had another idea- a lot of you seem to have many good tips for your fellow Resis, which you’re more than happy to share on these blogs.  If you’d like to come as an impromptu assistant for me, that’d be cool too- nothing like Resis helping Resis!]

See you there,

P

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151 Responses to 1.19.1 Viewer – a love/hate relationship??

  1. Great! I’ll be there 😉

  2. Ener Hax says:

    the browser has been pretty flawless for me. on like 4 hours a night with all graphics maxed out and I have yet to freeze. kudos to all of you at LL. this is some major complicated stuff, it’s all I can do to not get a paper cut making paper airplanes. 🙂

  3. KillerMonkey Spire says:

    “We’ve been monitoring statistics, and crash rates and framerates are higher than the 1.18 viewers- no joke. ”

    Crash and Frame rates?

    ==
    Overall, I like the Windlight enhancements. Now if we can get actual object imports and shadows implemented, it can begin to operate like a real world! 😛

  4. Celierra Darling says:

    By the way, what is a “PM”? “Project Manager”? “Product Manger”? “Pain Mediation”?

  5. Zi Ree says:

    Great move! But I advise to find some way to moderate this, or people will shout this meeting into uselessness, like it has been done often in the past. For me, the latest 1.19 has been less stable than the earlier ones but not so much that I would complain about 😉

    People need to see that Lindens are listening, and this is a great way to show it. I wish you all the best for this event!

  6. annemarie perenti says:

    “Patently wrong or misunderstood perception of behavior (I like those the best – easiest to solve”

    It wouldn’t be a bad idea for you guys to publish an article outlining what these misunderstandings are and what the simple fixes are, for us simple people.

  7. I love the new viewer, I’ve been logged in for 2 days now without a crash or freeze..

  8. Geneko Nemeth says:

    Too bad the net in my dormitory room is down… Will there be transcripts? How about voice chat transcripts?

    I have experienced an increase in crash rates and frame rates with the 1.19.1 viewer even compared to the First Look WindLight viewer too.

  9. Jackson says:

    Will there be a PDF verison or something similar for those of us that will not be able to catch the chats?

  10. Raban Laborde says:

    basically i like the 1.19.1. There are some nasty quirks, as erratic camera moves and some misbehaving editing prims.

    Every other thing i got fixed with graphics setup.

  11. Flaran Riggles says:

    The biggest problem is invisible skirts. This still has not been fixed. I can wear a skirt for a few minutes, then it goes invisible and won’t return. No other skirt can then be worn without it going invisible at once!! This only affected the Windlight viewers for me and the 1.19.1 release.

  12. Dirk Massiel says:

    Oh, I can state with confidence my crash rate is definately higher, just as you say it is. 🙂

  13. Rannoch Later says:

    Please can you help me?? I cant seem to Log in, Im in UK, is the problem with Me at this end, or is there a problem with SL and my region??

  14. Jopsy Pendragon says:

    My only complaint with the 1.19.1 viewer is it’s tendency to ‘freeze’ for 5-30 seconds after moving the camera view. It doesn’t happen to often, say once every 30 minutes or so, especially if you’re hanging out at around 300m of elevation. I haven’t experienced it at ground level.

    If I were to take a wild uninformed guess, it’s as if the terrain information were forgotten by the client and had to be re-retrieved. All UI functions cease during this freeze period. And then it recovers and carries on as if nothing happened.

    I’ve been trying to replicate the problem while I have quick-timers on to see if I could narrow down the culprit, but so far no dice.

  15. Brent Jarman says:

    The date is wrong… Thursday is April 10th. 🙂

  16. Greymoor says:

    The crashes I get correlate more with the load on the server. The viewer can be robust but if the load keeps going up, the viewer will crash more often. I’ve noticed that the viewer now deals better with slow server response, but it can still fail.
    As for graphics, I think the new Windlight is great, but it may be overwhelming some of the older/weaker graphics cards. I hate for people to miss Windlight effects, but it should be easier to turn off.

  17. The new viewer seems to be working well for me and reasonably stable compared to the test versions.
    Quite good screen captures can be made with this viewer too.
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/nokithecat_writer/
    Compared to older viewers there is a significant improvement from years gone by.
    Best of luck and keep up the great work! ,,,=^_^=,,,

  18. RichD says:

    “So, I want to chat with as many of you as possible in an impromptu office hour session held tomorrow, Thursday April 9th, at 12:00pm-2:00pm SLT”

    Count me in….. But isn’t today the ninth and Thursday is the tenth 🙂 The days just run together don’t they.

  19. Pastrami Linden says:

    date’s been fixed, y’all. Leave the pixels to me- and the date keeping to the Mayans 😉

  20. Mel says:

    “We’ve been monitoring statistics, and crash rates and framerates are higher than the 1.18 viewers- no joke. I just want to ensure that’s the case for as many of you as possible.”

    Am I reading this wrong or is this what you meant to say? That the “crash rates…. are higher than 1.18 viewers” and …you “want to ensure that is the case for as many of you as possible” ?

    I am no tech so maybe I am reading it backwards.

    I havent tried the newest version yet.. I am on 1.19.0 (5). The freezing is intolerable and crashes are frequent. It used to come with moving the camera in the 1.18 series. but now it happens just when you are typing. So…. if this new version (when fixed) is better.. I will be there.

  21. Dithean Ringo says:

    Something has changed graphically from the RC viewer 1.19.1 (4) to the new 1.19.1 (4) viewer. I can no longer view ‘glow’ or the sunlight/moonlight on the waves. All I get are large circles of white.
    The only way I can get rid of it is to turn off BASIC shaders. I have pictorial evidence lol

    Oh, and Pastrami ~ Thursday is April 10th *^_^*

  22. Darien Caldwell says:

    I hope something can be done about http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-4008 Before more start thinking this bug is the new standard for Glow. 😦

  23. Russy says:

    Since upgrading to 1.19.1(4), I’ve been crashing like mad. 😦

  24. Jessicka Graves says:

    Higher crash rates, stack-heap/memory errors, group-chat failures, unending increase of lower frame-rates, turning the graphics up and zooming out will turn avatars into 8 or 16 bit characters. *Shrugs* I run at 160 draw distance, all my graphics turned to bottom, and I turn off rezzing ‘bump’, grass, particles, tree’s, sky, water, etc. I am forced to either crash or relog every 3-5 hours, sometimes while surfing the web, the viewer just crashes for the hell of it.

    The viewers are still getting progressively worse, being my computer set up hasn’t changed, yet my SL experience is getting worse. It’s the only common denominator changing in this equation.

  25. Hyden Washborne says:

    This new viewer im sorry but is a big crap i dont know how the ppl of linden lab can upload for working, this have lots and lots of mistakes, well tomorrow i’ll be there…

  26. Bridget Lykin says:

    I can’t use the new viewer.He crash when I’ll edit objects.

  27. Burgess Miles says:

    The windlight viewer have effectively destroyed much of our work, textures fading out, lighting blotted out by sunlight. Ppl using any setting above medium can’t see anything at all at our gallery and much of our hard work have been for nothing. The way windlight settings blot out things previously clearly visible is nothing less than a disaster!!

  28. JamesLogan Knoller says:

    I agree with Jessicka & Hyden, this new viewer is so wrong, we hope that you can fix this. I dont know but with some reason Linden Lab make an SL “normal” and SL Windlight

  29. Haruki Watanabe says:

    Seems, I’m like the only one here who doesn’t like the new viewer. It is sloooooow like hell. I have to switch off all the fancy stuff (means 128m view range, 100 particles, no athmospheric rendering and so on) in order to have a more or less nice experience (a.k.a. being able to move without being stalled, seing rotations of objects – not just hops, and so on).

    I’m on an iMac 20″, 2.16 GHz, Intel Core 2 Duo, 2GB RAM, ATY RadeonX1600 at 1680×1050, 128MB VRAM

    Sorry to say – but it sucks…

  30. Katiya Rhode says:

    Love the GMT friendly office hours!
    Will most definitely try to come and have a (polite) whinge, but bet the sim crashes as thousands pour in – LOL
    No idea what changed between RC3 and RC4, but my framerate dropped from great to blooming awful – and changing graphic preferences makes no difference to that. And now RC4 is the standard viewer (ain’t it?), am worried that it’ll end up being compulsory and I’ll have to leave second life or put up with feeling like my av is walking through jam and having the coniptions.

  31. Dougal Jacobs says:

    The Windlight viewer is an excellent step forward. I would request though that LL begin looking into having 64 bit test systems, as there are some severe stability issues that have always existed in a 64 bit (particularly windows) environment that have not been resolved since inception.

  32. Designer Himmel says:

    good vs bad… those who cannot get into SL because their pc isn’t up to the new and improved viewer are not able to speak for themselves because they can’t get into SL to do so.
    I downloaded 1.19.1 and crashed within minutes of logging in… and SL was nothing but a fractal jungle.
    My Linden Labs recommended ATI Radeon 9550 was not able to handle it, so I went back to 1.19.0.
    When 1.19.1 becomes mandatory I will leave SL because I am not able to afford buying/upgrading my PC to meet unannounced new system requirements.
    I expect this will be a trend that will cut SL’s population considerably.
    Question: when only those rich enough to afford the lastest, greatest and best PC equipment are in SL… who will be left to buy those rich people’s products?
    Answer: NO ONE except the 2% rich that are left.
    If you can’t keep the program at the average PC level…
    If you leave the little people out of your plans…
    The rich will have to do their own dirty work. LOL – that’s not going to happen – the rich don’t do dirty work *wink*
    Good Luck keeping an empty Second Life alive.

  33. I shall try to attend if I can because I am actually curious as to what other issues people have been having & if they match the issues that I have been having. (Wearing a skirt & not being able to see it is becoming an extreme annoyance.) Hopefully we will be able to get our questions in & this won’t turn into a lagging circus.

  34. Cheyenne Palisades says:

    I was zipping along with the new viewer at 11-12 fps with settings all maxed. Suddenly the frame rate dropped to 1-3 and I have to run SL with settings very low. My machine didn’t change. Nor did the viewer. What gives?

  35. Milla Alexandre says:

    Brave undertaking.

    I have stated many times as I will again, this viewer, as have all others, runs fine for me. I have spoken with many in-world who are satisied and who feel strongly that often folks who have problems are running on outdated systems, or g-cards, or lousy connections.
    I run windows…I have tons of memory…I always update my Nvidia (geforce7600) and I have high speed cable… the latest viewer runs beautifully. As a mentor, more often than not the problems I hear about are due to operating systems that just can’t handle the viewer. And most of the time, these folks I try to help never bothered to look before they signed up.

  36. couldn’t LL release a “Lite” version of the viewer? I mean a version that can run on older machines, without all those “bells ans whistles”, but just the basic features… some people just can`t get a new graphics card everytime LL updates their software…

  37. Ele Infinity says:

    I have work days for adapt the viewer to my poor graphic card. I’m not so happy and my use of SL is worst. I have a black triangle in upper left side very disturbing. But maybe is my problem …..

  38. Designer Himmel says:

    @35
    hmmmm… yeah… seems only the Nvidia cards work in SL now. If you have a Microsoft, or ATI card – forget about Second Life until you go to the more expensive Nvidia…
    Hmmmm… kick backs LL?

  39. Kathy Morellet says:

    Pastrami Linden: “So, I want to chat with as many of you as possible in an impromptu office hour session held tomorrow, Thursday April 10th, at 12:00pm-2:00pm SLT at Brampton Stage. Now, before you all jump on me for not considering non-US time zones, know that if this turns out well I’ll hold these again next week at a substantially shifted time (alas, my poor beauty sleep 😦 )”

    OK, so I’ll jump on you for not considering all of us in the US who have day jobs. 😦

    But that aside, thank you for doing this and I do hope the effort is successful and productive for everyone.

  40. Whisper says:

    Hi Pastrami, can you have the linux team there please? We gots issues!

  41. Pastrami Linden says:

    Guys, if you’re seriously disappointed, just come tomorrow- I assure you it will be more productive than flaming the viewer here on the blog! In fact, one of the reasons I’m doing this is to get to a dialog level and try to help some of the frustration that you usually can only express via these comments. Thanks.

  42. Emma Arbizu says:

    “We’ve been monitoring statistics, and crash rates and framerates are better than the 1.18 viewers- no joke. ”
    I’m quite sure… I haven’t even had the chance of having a crash… I’ve been experiencing problems trying to log in… about 11 and a half hours trying enter world. Not bad.
    WHAT THE HECK!!! Has anyone thought about giving us users the possibility of entering SL using those less robust viewers that used to work smooth as velvet? (beginning to get trully upset)

  43. Phoenixa Sol says:

    I’ve had the viewer turn completely white blank for a few seconds several times now. No interface, nothing.. just blank.

  44. Whisper says:

    @40, you mean we can flame you!?! eep. 🙂

  45. “PJira has become backlogged,” oh my 😦 – So instead of using the bug tracking system we go to the anecdotal town meeting bug tracking system? Could we possibly do both? You MADE me learn JIRA d**n you! 😉

  46. I have no issues with the new client! ‘Cept my inventory keeps vanishing, but that’s an asset server issue, right? I clear my cache and everything’s fine, just weird that it keeps happening.

  47. Fnordian Link says:

    Jopsy Pendragon wrote:
    “My only complaint with the 1.19.1 viewer is it’s tendency to ‘freeze’ for 5-30 seconds after moving the camera view. It doesn’t happen to often, say once every 30 minutes or so, especially if you’re hanging out at around 300m of elevation. I haven’t experienced it at ground level.”

    Interesting. I’ve experienced this a lot too, although not just with the 1.19.1 viewer. This occurs frequently for me and also my Sl partner, who uses a much newer computer and lives in a different country from me. My own graphics card’s quite old but as her’s isn’t, that doesn’t seem to the issue.

    I’m not sure if it happens at ground level or not as we spend most of our time at higher altitudes (our store is located on a sky platform).

    These freezes started occurring a lot in the past few months but never before then so I’m not too sure what the current viewer was at the time. It seems to happen more if you zoom the camera a lot but can happen other times too.

  48. SM Thibaud says:

    Oh yes, I do have a comment, and a solution. On Mac (2.4 Ghz, nvidia geforce 8600) the new viewer often stops to process stuff (little wheel turning), and “tune down the graphic preferences” didn’t seem an exact enough answer.

    The solution (posted here to rectify previous incorrect blog comments): to disable “windlight” you need to disable water reflections, atmospheric shaders AND basic shaders – in the graphics tab in prefs. This way you get the good ole (mucho faster) SL.

  49. Shattered Howlett says:

    I’m going to comment here because I will miss the session tomorrow due to work, will likely miss a European-friendly one next week due to sleeping before work, and have a love-hate relationship with Jira due to Linden response to a particular bug I’ve been adding updates to since December.

    I tried the viewer, and no matter what I did to my graphics settings (yes, I was playing with the custom options, tried reverting to the recommended settings, you name it), anything more than 10-15 meters from me looked awful. Items were horribly pixelated, avatars became 2D video game sprites, AOs didn’t work at all (other users appeared to just move across the landscape in a singular pose, as if they were lagged) until they got close enough to me. Yes, I updated my video card drivers before installing the new viewer, as the blog entry reminded us to.

    Needless to say, I went back to 1.19.0.5.

  50. Designer Himmel says:

    Pastrami Linden: one of the reasons I’m doing this is to get to a dialog level and try to help some of the frustration that you usually can only express via these comments.

    Sorry Pastrami… we’ve been screaming at LL for months to slow down… no one listens… now you are losing customers.
    Frustration is not going to be cured by saying ‘just roll with the punches and LL will be happy’.
    Second Life had a stable viewer that the majority was happy with… cater to the minority, and SL will have only that minority in world.
    Wake up and hear the screams.

  51. #32 – Disable atmospheric shaders, disable OpenGL Vertex buffers and make sure you have at least 1GB of RAM – Preferrably 2GB. Then everything should be ok 🙂

  52. Ryu Darragh says:

    I’ll be there. Would like to get some inout (and maybe have some as well) on the edit tools and texture sorting algorithms 🙂

  53. Cummere Mayo says:

    I’ll be there if i can. I have lots to say. also pastrami, ask bitterly for the notecards she and i collected.

  54. Serious Serapis says:

    The new viewer doesn’t work on my laptop with ATI FireGL v3200 even after updating to the latest drivers 8.383.1.1000. It crashes, hangs and causes blue screens of death (video driver entered infinite loop) anytime I edit an object, and often when just walking around for a few minutes. This is with all graphics preferences either set to the recommended, minimal, custom, etc. “Enable VBO” has never worked on this laptop and always caused crashes, but even with it off on this viewer the crashes continue. Hardware skinning causes my avatar to look as if it has been through a meat shredder.

    Luckily my other laptop with Nvidia seems to work fine even with all the bells and whistles turned on.

  55. Haruki Watanabe says:

    @47 nice… so what’s the point of the new viewer, if I can’t use the windlight-features? this makes me go *duh*… ah well… so what… 🙂

  56. phor darkstone says:

    your crash percentage stats are probably not accurate. i’m sure im not the only one who’s viewer can’t find the crash report server most of the time.

    things may be far worse than you know

  57. Lozlo Peng says:

    LL WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?

    I just had inventory problems for over an hour. My inventory kept failing to load to it’s full ammount of items so I had to clear my cache a number of times. It still didn’t load. However it has ‘fully’ loaded now, yay?! BUT, i’ve gone and suffered INVENTORY LOSS.
    The reason I was urged to load my inventory is because I wanted to wear my AO HUD. My AO HUD was detached by mistake because of that unecessary RELEASE KEY button situated at the bottom of my screen when a HUD is attached which I ended up clicking by mistake when trying to select my chat bar.
    So yea, iv’e gone and lost my AO HUD – due to the release key messing it up?
    My bloody AO contains over 100 poses – no exxageration

    So, what do we do when we lose our virtual property due to LL messing around with the database? Is LL going COMPENSATE?

    com·pen·sate (kmpn-st)
    v. com·pen·sat·ed, com·pen·sat·ing, com·pen·sates
    v.tr.

    1. To offset; counterbalance.
    2. To make satisfactory payment or reparation to; recompense or reimburse: Management compensated us for the time we worked.
    3. To stabilize the purchasing power of (a monetary unit) by changing the gold content in order to counterbalance price variations.

    The time and money we spend in SL is no longer protected? No compensation guaranteed for LLs faults?

    So, anyone else suffered from this in the past or today? I know a few; too many.

  58. Lozlo Peng says:

    Oh and what’s up with all the freezing for over 30 seconds then finding your minimap has turned RED and you realise you can no longer communicate in-world because the lag disconnected us?

  59. Justflame Away says:

    /me passes on all above complaints,..From what I have seen the viewer is GREAT, but there are those out there that have machines that simply cannot run it due to the machine not having the cpu/mem/grapics to handle it. Is it possible to make a “light version” of the viewer so slower machines could cope? Just a thought,….I LOVE THE NEW VIEWER!!!!

  60. Pastrami Linden says:

    One other thing (see my “EDIT” above) – Just had another idea- a lot of you seem to have many good tips for your fellow Resis, which you’re more than happy to share on these blogs. If you’d like to come as an impromptu assistant for me tomorrow, that’d be cool too- nothing like Resis helping Resis!

  61. woody says:

    Love this new viewer! Really REALLY. Screw the damn whiners. seriously find something to do. This viewer rocks!!! If you cant see that, then there is something wrong on your end. Check your preferences. 🙂

  62. I love the new viewer I am running on a mac pro, I am noticing tho that the viewer every once in a while will pause for a min or two. Then will start up, is this a known issue?

  63. OggyWolf Rosewood says:

    SO since I have a job in rl and can’t make the meeting I thought I would put up a post here. I love “windlight” however, it comes with some pains. I was running perfectly fine on the old viewer, and would turn down my settings and view distance to make things less render heavy on my graphics card. Now, I do not have that choice and I can “see” things far away…….. however avvies 2 inches from me are pixelated. It’s a bit annoying to say the least. Overall I would think that you would be trying to make a viewer that was more user end friendly and not one that is more “shiny”. I love the way the sky looks in the new viewer… however I dont like crashing… or not being able to see other avvies.

  64. Otenth Paderborn says:

    “Thursday April 10th, at 12:00pm-2:00pm SLT at Brampton Stage. Now, before you all jump on me for not considering non-US time zones”

    Um, excuse me, but 12-2pm SLT is entirely within the time most working Americans are at their jobs and totally unable to attend office hours in a virtual world. So consider this being jumped on to consider job-holding-friendly US times.

    “I’m doing this mostly because PJira has become backlogged and, as the PM for much of this, I can directly influence the bugs worked on and the development process as it unfolds.”

    So you’re telling us the official method for letting Linden Research know about bugs in your product is broken and that you are going to ignore the method that is equally accessible to all in favor of a two-hour meeting only a tiny number of people can attend.

  65. Pastrami Linden says:

    @62- try setting your Avatar Detail slider to high, while keeping the rest low – this should result in better performance while raising the distance at which avatars become impostors.

  66. Joni Villota says:

    Ever since I’ve updated to the new viewer, I’ve been experiencing more crashes than I have been throughout my months of experience in sl. Sure the environment graphics used in Windlight are great, but the downside is that framerate in laggy sims has increased and there’s no way of correcting this problem unless we lower the graphics detail, which doesn’t help much. Also, I’ve heard others who are going through the same dilemma as myself. So please LL, correct this god-awful mistake and make our residents comfortable to use sl in the first place.

  67. Neener Keats says:

    I experiment permanent memory leaks.. memory falls from 1.4 Gb to 100 megs within an hour, and my pagefile grown to 2.8 Gb. Everytime I use SL, I fear the almighty crash now. All happens since I’ve bought a Geforce 8800GTX, DDR3 and Quad core.. Anything related I couldn’t tell. Maybe it’s just me.

  68. Umbra Lunardi says:

    1.19.1.4 has a serious memory leak problem which leads to a complete crash 10% of the time.

  69. just here because my viewer crashed for the 5th time today.
    quite honestly, ive been using windlight for months and tis never been so bad 😉

  70. Lozlo Peng says:

    Pastrami Linden, what are we supposed to do about inventory loss?
    Are we supposed to see it as “our fault” or does Linden Labs have the power to compensate for or recover something? This loss is literally totally unreplaceable, i’m not over exxagerating.

  71. Rooke Ayres says:

    Fix the memory leaks.

    There’s no reason for the viewer to use 600MB of memory in less than an hour with less than a dozen textures on screen (including those worn by the avatar) and no discernible movement on the screen.

    Nicholaz had that fixed in his viewers. LL should be able to do it too.

  72. Stacey Sugar says:

    I cant seem to join a 16sqmtr plot to a 8192sqmtr plot with the new viewer … whats up with that?

  73. Reggie Eames says:

    @11. Yes, indeed, the invisible skirt issue is vexing and frustrating. I enjoy shopping for clothes, but if I cannot wear them because the skirts disappear, I do not dare purchase them.

    I have tried the fix suggested (going into appearance edit, dragging and dropping the skirt onto my avatar, making a minor change and resaving the skirt.) and it only works for a maximum of 10 minutes then disappears again. That “fix’, of course, can only be used on copy/mod versions of the skirts and not for non-copy/non-mod versions. And then only for 10 minutes before disappearing again. I hope this will be addressed.

  74. Designer Himmel says:

    @50
    ummmm duh, sorry but YOU’RE NOT LISTENING. If I have to turn everything OFF to enjoy SL… where is the enjoyment?
    According to system requirements listed on the download page…
    Cable or DSL – guess what – DSL is now too slow.
    512 MB or more – 1GB is now too little!

    NVIDIA GeForce 2, GeForce 4 MX or better – ONLY!
    THESE DON’T HANDLE 1.19.1 AT ALL:
    OR ATI Radeon 8500, 9250 or better
    OR Intel 945 chipset

    Pay Attention: I can’t afford to upgrade/buy new every 3 months PERIOD.
    SL is now for those who do NOT have to live on a budget – AS MOST OF US DO!!!!

  75. la le lu says:

    i just say ever and ever, keep the non-windlight client supported!!!!!

    also get the client in sync with the sim, llGetSunDirection() doesn’t work with the windlight client (1.19.1.4).

    multiple open clients also worked better (less resources) with the old, non-windlight clients.

  76. SavannahAnn McMillan says:

    After nearly a year of being a resident, this is the first time I’ve felt strongly enough to post to the SL blog.

    When the 1.19.1 viewer became mandatory and I dutifully downloaded and installed it, I was absolutely horrified as a SL business owner to discover that, no matter what advice I followed (including the tips listed on the SL blog), I could not turn off the Windlight neon orange and hot pink lighting at the sunrise and sunset settings. This was doubly horrifying because these are the settings I have used for nearly a year now to take great vendor and ad pics without any laggy face or body lights. The only way I was able to turn off this horrid lighting was to install the 1.19.0.5 viewer, which solved the lighting problem completely.

    I LOVE all the new features in the 1.19.0.5 viewer, including the new interface and menu graphics, and especially the wonderful new Search! But if 1.19.1 becomes truly mandatory, I will be forced to leave SL, cash out, sell my land, and close down my business. My computer refuses to turn off Windlight in the 1.19.1 viewer, and there is no way I can do business and release products under those lighting conditions. I honestly don’t care what the sky looks like, just keep the lighting the way it was please! Or at least make it an option and not the default setting, and make Windlight easy to turn on and off with just ONE click immediately accessible on the main Preferences/Graphics menu without having to go through multiple submenus and turn off multiple settings to get rid of it. I can assure you that, at least in the groups I’m a member of, Windlight is NOT loved by the majority of members, and should never have been made the default setting in the latest viewer.

  77. Teen Grid please?

  78. Leila Larkham says:

    Im in agreement with Designer Himmel here and “viewer” willing I’ll be at the meeting tomorrow.
    Having to update a not even 2 year old system that works fine anywhere else on the web but SL is ludicrous!
    Ive made friends here, Ive experienced just about everything there is to experience here, so I can add my friends to skype and be done with it if this is the way of the future.

  79. Lozlo Peng says:

    “Pastrami Linden, what are we supposed to do about inventory loss?
    Are we supposed to see it as “our fault” or does Linden Labs have the power to compensate for or recover something? This loss is literally totally unreplaceable, i’m not over exxagerating.”

    Oh and it always seems to be objects which have scripts and animations in that go missing. Last year I suffered inventory loss with a chimera (a scripted object you fill with dance animations and wear) Everything but those objects; the most expensive, the most unreplacable..

    People can’t even IM the creators to ask for a replacement because they’ve been collecting these animations and filling them up in their chimeras and AO HUDS for most probably years (in my case anyway) which means I can’t prove my transactions.

  80. Alexandra Rucker says:

    Pastrami –

    One of the best things? Would be to dig out Nicholaz Beresford’s patches and IMPORT THEM TO THE CURRENT VIEWER!

    He put the smackdown on the hair-up-the-butt a long time ago, and put in many other memory leak pataches that really need to be put in.

    By ignoring those, LL is risking alienating even more people!

  81. Apple Pinkney says:

    SL keeps upgrading beyond the capabilities of older residents’ computers. I couldn’t change my Sound preferences at all, nor my Graphics settings (probably because the mandatory upgrade threw my video card right off the list). The mandatory viewer determined my Graphics settings should be Draw Distance 128 and Max Particles 4096 when I always run Draw Distance 64 and Max Particles 256 to cut down on lag. A Support ticket got me the sage advice to re-download the viewer. Whereupon, I got the same results. (Einstein said that the definition of Insanity is doing the same exact thing and expecting different results.)

    Surprisingly, I could still d/l and use 1.19.0. At least it let me set my Graphics settings even if my Sound settings are still all blued out and unchangeable.

    Some of us don’t care about pretty (laggy) skies and/or WindLight. We just want to get Inworld, run our businesses and chat with our friends. How about taking us into consideration and coming out with something like 1.18 for Dummies?

  82. Stinger Lytton says:

    Any advice on which of the latest ATI cards can run all the features on high or ultra quality settings for this viewer ?
    Need a new graphics card so this info would be a great help.

  83. VenuS says:

    I have an ibm integrated graphics card and even with windlight on it runs a hundred times better than the last viewer. I have had one crash. one. before it was too many to count. and whining about particles? they are annoying anyways.

  84. Conifer Dada says:

    It’s pretty good but not working quite as smoothly for me as some of the other recent versions. Having a problem with camera boinging in and out more than usual and had a few crashes.

  85. Pretty cool with the new graphics…

    The only part that’s been troublesome is the frequent down times where all is fine but my textures aren’t rezzing…I go to the coffee shop to “get away” from it all, not to be smacked in the face with it.

    Good job overall though…

  86. Keaton Akina says:

    The focus on FPS is totally misguided in my opinion. I get consistent 45FPS but texture resolution is still incredibly slow. There are clearly more factors in viewer performance than pure FPS.

  87. Lozlo Peng says:

    So I guess my posts are being ignored by the Linden, as usual.

    I just heard premiums can get a character roll back?
    Too bad i’m not bloody premium I guess?! Right?
    yay customer service.

  88. Here is a short patch for anyone who cares;

    I was playing with ||Target Omega, and found I could not change the rotation speed with the speed parameters successfully. I would change speed to 0.0025 and it would still rotate at 1.0 no matter what. I replaced the “PI” argument with an integer, i.e 0.25 and voila, it began functioning correctly again (even after re-rezzing). 😉

    Keep in mind this is only temporary, and will probably need to be reset back to PI once ||Target Omega is functioning again properly. I hope this helps anyone as it did me.. (I got tired of re-rezzing 100.s of objects 😉 Have a GREAT Second Life ™

  89. Lillie Yifu says:

    I’ve helped several people go back to the nicholaz browser. 1.19, it isn’t a version number, it’s the average customer rating on a scale of 1 to 10.

    Fixing memory leaks and other crash bugs needs to be a higher priority in client team, especially since there isn’t going to be outside help.

  90. Alura Elvehjem says:

    WOW,

    Well, I guess I’ll be the voice for the many people I have contact with…(on a lot of groups). Let me just say I’ve been passing out the old viewer links to a lot of people.

    Sometimes heavy users just don’t like to make noise. Maybe they’re not techy enough, maybe they are just too busy…so they go around SL’s upgrades the best they can.

    Currently I’m finding Dazzle to be the most stable of all my SL versions (and yes, I’ve tried them all). I can run two copies for at least 30 minutes without my system seizing (whoot!) The 19.1.1 is..well…messing with so many different kinds of scripts, causing the one thing I truly love about SL (the ability to make beautiful enviroments) to go plop. It works for awhile and then I’m crashed. I try again, works for awhile, crash. I’m just too dang busy to deal with it.

    So I went back to Dazzle. (not sure what the difference is..not techy enough to come to your meeting and be any help at all).

    I wish you luck in smoothing it all out. I think one person above mentioned that many people won’t be able to afford the upgrades necessary to run SL. My ‘puter is only a year old and I won’t be able to upgrade for years…Has anyone SEEN the USA’s finanacial situation??? Got to save my $$ for my home/family.

    Back to the garden ….

    Alura

  91. PuppyKia Dawg says:

    I love the new viewer. I was using the RC viewer after it took over for WL. I have been running everything on Ultra with visual range out to 300m with no problem.

    However, There do seem to be times of the day the i always seem to have issues with. I am curious as to wether the nightly maintanance or things like windows updates every 2nd tuesday in fact slow things down in world. I have always been a huge fan of shutting down and restarting my computer every few hours to reboot the memory. Should people considr doing this to their sims? A manual sim restart takes but 5 minutes. and i have watched an explosions from a nuke in prgress during a sim restart appear aftr the restart. So you do not lose any information. Could this be a possible solution? Clean the memory of ther servers more often?

  92. seriously, read the blog PM! says:

    why hold special hours? just read and reply here, it’s the SAME THING.

  93. Mystiphi Giha says:

    Lag, physic’s issues, crashes. the this new one issue I am getting… a SL SmartHeap Library Error ?? That’s not even noted anywhere in the Support page. First time I saw this error, I went to look for it. There is no information anywhere on this site and how to prevent this.

  94. Gawyn Philbin says:

    Unfortunately due to RL work, I’m unable to attend the meeting. I’d like to state that I love the new viewer so far, and am indeed experiencing less crashes… the only problem though, is my graphic settings need to be set a LOT lower then they were in previous viewers!

    Now, I do realize this is because of my hardware, and NOT a specific viewer issue, but if I might be so bold, you’re going to end up loosing a lot of residents if people like me need to spend $1,000 or more upgrading our systems, just to be able to handle all the “shiny” new features ya’ll add.

    All in all, while the updates and stability fixes are indeed good, perhaps you might want to take into consideration those of us running slightly outdated hardware (and it is only slightly outdated) and that can’t afford to upgrade to the latest and greatest to see the shininess (though by the same token, I am saving up since I want to be able to see the shiny as well… it’ll just take me a while).

    Excepting that, I’m rather impressed with after more then a year in world, finally seeing fixes, patches and server upgrades that are addressing the stability issues rampant throughout the grid.

  95. Karine Koba says:

    For some reason snapshot don’t allow custom setting the same way as it used to. Can’t raise back the size once lowered in upload snapshot wich is annoying. Can’t enter numbers manually either. I have to reselect from the drop down size menu.

    Is there any way to “reset to default” environment editor?

    Unless I zoom with my camera or that I’m close enough to avatars, i don’t seven see their movements when they walk or type wich is odd.

    So many changes all at once instead of just improving performance and fix already existing bugs… some things that were stable and fine don’t work the same anymore.

  96. Pastrami Linden says:

    @93- using the “Custom” box in Graphics Preferences, you should be able to get it exactly as it was before- with similar or better fps. Look to Torley’s upcoming tutorial on Graphics Preferences tweaking to learn more.

  97. ivan rothschild says:

    HELP! i freakin crash after 5 mins eversingle time i log in. have parameters set as low as possible! only started happening after i downloaded latest ver. 1.19.1 😦 horrible frame rate too…. yet i still log in everyday….

  98. Umbra Lunardi says:

    Pastrami, would you address the memory leak issue, please? Thanks.

  99. Karine Koba says:

    Of course it has good sides. For things that works…good job.

    I think that those who can’t handle shiny and all can always lower settings under graphics. Make sure to put a check on “Custom” under Graphics and you will find all of that there.

  100. Lozlo Peng says:

    Pastrami, yea would you address the memory leak issue.. and INVENTORY LOSS ISSUE – Since it seems like the same thing? My inventory is losing it’s memory?

  101. Ann Otoole says:

    i’m tired of having to find workarounds. if the development team is not eating this dog food then they don’t know whats really going on.

    so pastrami.. you were acquired with that windmark or whatever game company right? so you came into a system with a viewer people were using productively for a few years. and then suddenly you own the entire viewer?

    somehow i feel your priorities may be suspect since your purpose in life will be to defend the decision to bring this thing in.

    in addition… rolling a new viewer, physics engine, and database upgrades all at the same time is really not an example of planned SCM. Something needs to change and someone needs to control all these different teams now all vying to look good in advance of a new CEO selection.

    its a mess.

    the database is corrupt. eyes set to eye lightness 100 are set to 0 in people’s inventories. shapes render differently from month to month. just so many problems that make me question the viability and sustainability of this product without a catastrophic change at LL.

    and then theres other issues i won’t get into because they won’t change without said catastrophic changes.

  102. I remember reading somewhere that if you rename the folder C:\Program Files\SecondLifeReleaseCandidate\app_settings\windlight
    to something different it will disable all windlight shaders in-game. Some of you that wish to remove Windlight entirely from their viewer may want to try this.

  103. Designer Himmel says:

    @81
    I have the ATI Radeon 9550… it doesn’t like the new viewer. Nor do any of the other ATI cards, from what I’m hearing.
    I suggest going to Nvidia if you can afford it.
    If not… well… you really didn’t want to play in SL after all, did you? Oh, you did?
    Well… sorry, only those who buy Nvidia can play now.

  104. Broccoli Curry says:

    I seem to recall that all blog and website content should be rated “PG”… I can clearly see butt crack on Cupid.

  105. ivan rothschild says:

    oh and where is the advanced graphics tab in preferences? no longer available? 😦

  106. #102 on the contrary I have an ATI Radeon x1600 256Mb and I have not had extraordinary issues with it.

  107. Max says:

    I have a GForce 7950GT graphics card and have been running SL for months now without problem. I downloaded the newest version and “boom” frame rates suck freezing occurs constantly with graphics turned down. Thought it was all at my end so I updated video drivers and tried everything. Stumbled upon this post and Iam glad to hear I’m not the only person with this problem. Being a paid customer of SL and a monthly buyer of lindens I hate to have to give it all up if this is the path Linden Labs is taking us having to have the highest end systems on the market to play in their world.

  108. Pastrami Linden says:

    sure all. Memory leaking is a huge one we’re looking at- we’re hunting down where in the libraries it’s occurring, but it’s almost certainly unrelated to the new shaders or visual effects.

    Re: inventory loss, it’s a massive issue and focus of the server and DB teams. It’s one of the problems with having such a high concurrency on a non-sharded VW. Sucks for now, but I know my comrades in arms are on it.

  109. Celena Jewell says:

    Hello everyone, I just want to say that although I don’t really know or understand much of the technical side of SL I am so glad that LL is always working to make SL better! Now I know that every time we update there’s bugs. Crashing, not being able to see you’re L$, having clothing or body parts disappear, and whatever else is not much fun I know but LL is not to blame and I’m sure they’ll have it running smooth as soon as they can. I feel that to many people give LL a bad rap for the glitches we encounter, but these people must realize that there’s a lot to handle in managing this world and I personally think we should be grateful for the advances made to SL. So I just want to say, thank you LL for creating and advancing this amazing world that so many enjoy and I am grateful to have it bugs and all! Though please don’t get me wrong I am not accusing anyone just making a general comment ok. Thank you LL and keep up the amazing work!

  110. Zena Juran says:

    I wonder if the real problem is not only the viewer but the servers AND the viewer. I had no problems with the RC all the way into Production. The problems, for me, came with the server update. And the problems I have are mostly the same ones stated here.

    I hope the meetings are not a “SlamFest”.

  111. Lozlo Peng says:

    Maybe Pastrami is ignoring my posts because I havn’t mentioned the word ‘viewer’ thus being off subject :[

    Pastrami, is it the new viewers fault that I just suffered major inventory loss?

  112. Valentino Tendaze says:

    I’m another in favour of the new viewer.

    I’ve been running it since it was WL RC and have had less crashes with it than the old viewer – mainly due to Memory Leak fixes I think. I actually started using it instead of Nicholaz’ viewer *sharp intake of breath* as it seems more stable on my PC.

    I like being able to adjust the settings – turn up objects, turn down terrain, or vice versa; turn everything up for photos – depending on what I’m doing. The extra granularity is good.

    Kudos to you, Pastrami, and to the bug hunters!

  113. shawnwirtz tiki says:

    I like this viewer very much goes great with high graphics computer work on the lag issues stablity on the grid and your good to go

  114. Rob Escape says:

    I have found nothing but excellence in this latest release

    and I tend to complain about the little things.

    *complains about the stupid idea to open source the servers…thereby eliminating any value of owning land in the near future*

  115. Tillie Ariantho says:

    Biggest bug is the enormous memory consuption, it eats memory LOTS faster than the 19.0 and the Nicholaz client. That needs to get fixed urgently. With Nicholaz client I can play a whole day in a row! With 1.19.1 I have to relog like every 2 hours (or even more often, depending on if I TP to other sims or not).

  116. Lozlo Peng says:

    RE: Pastrami Linden – inv’ loss.

    Okay so since it’s a massive issue and it’s just happened to me and no doubt a good number of others. What’s going to happen? We’re just expected to get on with our second life and blame ourselves or are the DB team going to do something about?

    Character roll backs apparantly? Am I alleged to get one?

  117. Jaggpro McCann says:

    Ok the viewer is Lovely and I regained my inventory after emptying my cache.
    But I have been coming to SL for 2yrs, Paying Tiers and supporting SL in everyway. I am a mature adult. The computer I have is perfectly good for 99.999% of anything else I want it to do, but now I get a message from Lindens saying it isn’t good enough to use in SL. So I need to find $1099 AU$ to continue coming into SL.
    Why do we need to find Nirvana? Why do we need weekly and monthly upgrades to install new features. Features that demand that users have the latest and greatest equipment to even come in.
    Why can’t you just settle on a Viewer and focus on making it perfect then leave it alone for a year so people can use it. Then take a year to perfect the next version instead of constantly implementing new half baked features that just disrupt and annoy users.

  118. giovanna lima dos santos says:

    by the way,whatisa´´? “ pain mediation´´?

  119. Aura Jaecies says:

    I may be new to SL, but I can tell already that the new viewer crashes like nothing else. Everything on my computer is brand new, graphics card and everything, and it seems that SL likes to shut down whenever it wants simply because…well, it can. It’s really aggravating, especially when items poof from my inventory because of it.

  120. Blinders Off says:

    Hiya Pastrami. Been using the new viewer. Not having many problems with it (except for camera jumping back and forth when a wall is behind me… that’s new and unwelcome). But for the most part, FOR ME, it works well.

    HOWEVER, there is one, major problem that’s come through the pipeline. Since LL removed the PREFERENCES button from the login splash menu, people no longer have the ability to change their hardware specs prior to logging in. This results in them getting such message as:

    “Your graphics card does not support Second Life.”

    Bottom line: it’s hard to disable the Windlight features of the viewer when you can’t log in to the viewer to change them in the EDIT menu.

    That’s something LL might wanna check in to. ; )

  121. Karine Koba says:

    I posted #94 here earlyer. I will be there tomorrow and hope to find answers to my questions there if I don’t here. thank you for this.

  122. Pastrami Linden says:

    @119- go to Edit->Prefs in the login screen. Voila 😉

  123. Karine Koba says:

    @ Blinders read back Pastrami’s posts.

  124. Lozlo Peng says:

    Blinders – Preferences is in the drop down menus located at the top of the viewer when not logged in is it not?

  125. SL Player™ says:

    I have some inventory items I can’t even rez now. Put an object out snaps right back into my inventory.

  126. Blinders Off says:

    BTW Pastrami… I like yer attitude. Friendly, empathetic, approachable, and you don’t take personal offense at user frustration. That is a very welcome change. : )

    (pat on back)

  127. Blinders Off says:

    LOL Pastrami… you’re RIGHT. I guess us older users just aren’t used to checking the top of the screen for menu options on login. Boy, that one solves a lot of problems.

    You know what’s unfortunate, is that no one I’ve spoken to so far has been aware of that new arrangement– me included. I’ll be sure and pass that info along– and thanks. That should make a lot of people happy.

  128. Marianne McCann says:

    Me, I love it. Then again, I adopted it early, an having pretty skies and water, glow, and overall better lighting is a benefit to me. That an I have the computer to run it. Unfortunately, I also have friends who don’t have the computing power for it, and lose out some on their SL experience as a result.

  129. pointside Sunbelter says:

    ** Hey mine is working great don’t try to have them revert back to the previous one! Let LL make a button that sets typical settings for “boat anchors” like my old machine.

    This is the first version I have used that seems to work great for me. I friends list loads and doesn’t say “hippos” whatever the heck that is. Machine performance during live events is great.

    I haven’t crashed at all in the 1.19’s. And I was around for the 1.17 to 1.18 revolt, with my old clunker machine. I know how you feel, I was one of the one’s yelling “Stone him!!!”

    As far as lighting goes, to be honest, I could care less what color of light makes your diamond ring look more silver than gold. Who gives a crap.

    They need to make a button in settings that sets typical settings for low end machines and vid cards. That might solve a good bit of the problems, but it won’t solve all of the crash problems, I am sure.

    This is the first stable version that I have had. You’re not taking this version away.

  130. bigmoe whitfield says:

    um ditch the windlight or make it a seperate viewer some of us arnt able to run this new client even the with stuff turned off (dosnt seem to fully turn off) 64mb video card ftl

  131. Dahlia Trimble says:

    Thanks for all you did to make this viewer faster and more reliable. I especially like the better frame rates.

    1 complaint:
    Since the last RC viewer, I’ve had several lockups on Vista, even with the latest video drivers installed. When it locks I need to shut the machine down and leave it unplugged for 30 seconds or so or it will never boot up. This never happened at all until the most recent RC clients. Often it is in the first few seconds after starting the client, but sometimes it happens when I minimize and restore. This is quite frustrating as I lose any work I had in my other applications, and I don’t think it helps my disks and files much either. 😦 I would add it to jira but usually when I do I search first, and when I dont find a similar problem I add it, but then someone comes around and immediately closes it because there was a similar one already.

  132. Bluecat Jun says:

    I thinkt that 1.19x version is more slower than 1.18x
    I like the very good performance that i had on 1.18, especially in fps and crashing terms.
    the 1.19 do not convince to me absolutely in those aspects, and i don’t have a bad computer (core2duo, 1g ram, Nvidia 8400) I know, is not the best, but it would have to be good enough. It could be great if LL make the 1.18 optional for use again. Think about it.

  133. OggyWolf Rosewood says:

    # 64 Pastrami Linden Says:
    April 9th, 2008 at 1:58 PM

    @62- try setting your Avatar Detail slider to high, while keeping the rest low – this should result in better performance while raising the distance at which avatars become impostors.

    We do not even have that under our graphics tab any more….. all we have is Quality and Performance…

  134. Dahlia Trimble says:

    Oops I forgot to mention that the crash logger is always going off after a crash, but it errors out too with a message that it cant contact the host to send the logs to.

  135. I had been using First Look Windlight viewers since they first debuted last year and generally had good results. I’m very sad to report, however, that unlike previous WL versions, the new official viewer causes my notebook to overheat to the point where my screen fills with giant solid-colored triangles and eventually crashes. The only way I can run SL now without overheating is to put it on the Low setting, which is unusable for many reasons. The system is only 2 years old, an Intel dual-core processor, NVidia video with 256MB VRAM, and 2GB of RAM. Nowadays I only log in to SL to take care of my businesses, because it’s really not fun doing anything else at Low settings, and I was sick of crashing in the middle of IMs with my friends and customers when I overheated.

  136. jz paine says:

    My thoughts, and only mine, without looking at what others have said, so sorry if I am repetitive is most the problems are on the users GRAPHICS end. I am starting to think the logic used to decide what GRAPHICS setting is the default for any person’s viewer is faulty.

    I have found many with problems with the new viewer, but when I instruct them to go into PREFERENCE and drop the GRAPHICS back, suddenly things appear better.

    So you may want to tweat everyone to start at the LOWEST settings that invoke sky, water, and avitar blocking, all at its lowest levels and let the user then adjust it up or down as they think.

    I am sure the problem is what type or age of they computer and video card but most don’t even know what type of card they may have.

    So I think that LINDENS needs to look at the settings area of the GRAPHICS tab and see how to better fit the settings there for the most flexibility.

  137. Martina Eisenhart says:

    The shift to v1.19.1.4 has been very dissapointing to me. I have absolutely no issues with crashing, or computer performance however.
    My issue regards the lighting, which is now casts very ugly shadows on many avatars. My avatar has extremely pale skin, and I wished to have an av that is completely white all over to remove any bumps or dents. I created a face and body light which worked perfectly for this in the 1.19.0(5) which worked absolutely perfectly. But on this new viewer, the sunlight interfers and forces ugly dark shadows all over my avatar. I know of many many others who are in the same boat as me, that is, the ones who have pale skin avs.
    What is required is a method that can make one have their av appear the same to everyone else, and not just the client themselves.
    Previously, simply creating a 6 prim box and using an alpha texture and making is phantom on it while setting light on each prim accomplished this easily. But now, the sun interferes and ruins this previously beautiful effect. Also, many of the established face and body lights that are sold in stores have become obsolete as a result.
    As I model in SL, and since I build in SL and sell my items, this will affect me very negatively.
    On the positive side, the environment looks nice and this is all well and good. But I would gladly, without hesitation, sacrifice this nicer environmental look to fix how the lighting affects our avatars’ appearance to everyone else in-world.
    I have personally gone back to 1.19.0(5) along with about 50 of my Sl friends precisely for this reason. But it still bothers us that other people will see ugly shadows on us, even though we look spectacular to each other. Call me vain if you wish, but I do not think this is a spurius issue. It would be a happy day for me and many others if SL rolled back to the 1.19.0(5) version, or at least fouind a way to fix this issue for the newer vewier (1.19.1.4).

    Thank you

  138. Jossy Joffe says:

    YEAH!! A Linden WITH ears and looks like to use them :).
    I will try to be there tomorrow. BTW. This 1.19, is the best viewer i have had in more than a years time.

  139. sirhc DeSantis says:

    I have been getting freeze ups on my home PC which I haven’t seen for some time (like total reset the box freezes) with the default values the client selected for it. I don’t have the system details here so I guess I’ll have to play around a little. Frequency is roughly every 2 hours and it happened three times last night (I know get a first life!). Doesn’t seem to happen on my integrated video-it-won’t-run-on that laptop. So I’ll try to be there, but bear in mind its smack in the middle of a work day afternoon on the east coast

  140. Lulu Pink says:

    Well, i have to say i do love the new viewer…
    OK, two things (one 1.19 one windlight related) are bothering:
    IMs dont blink anymore, if more than the window shows come to you you miss them easily… i missed a lot of ims since 1.19.
    The avatar imposing on higher distance is annoying… i did not find a setting how to change that, putting avatar rendering higher doesnt seem to make a difference.
    Besides “when is glow script able??? pleeeasee!!”
    Else i noticed something interesting about performance and cpu:
    My System:
    winxp sp2, 2x sata2 hd, 2gb 533mhz ram, Geforce 7600 GT
    My Pentium D 2.8ghz made problems, as short term solution i put in a Celeron 2.66Ghz (cheapest intel processor to buy a year ago) and to my surprise… SL (windlight) performance is MUCH better, where i had frame rates around 10fps i have now 20fps.
    i dont know if my Pentium D was always faulty in a way (i tried 1 cpu affiliation, too) or if they simply suck if even an old celeron does better.
    But in general i think this shows that not high end hardware is needed to run windlight as well as non-windlight viewers besides you can turn windlight off.

  141. Maurizio Westland says:

    I preferred the old viewer. IMHO avatars and cloths are now NO more “good looking” (if it’s only a question of graphic setting, I miss helpful hints ?). I also dislike the reddish coloured skins and walls in the morning sun – and the evening shining now yellowed. A good lightening (e.g. for to control appearance) is now no more available from front or back.

  142. Gracious Noel says:

    I love the new update very much so but I keep getting this low memory box pop up on my screen 1 to 2 to 3 times a day when i am on here. you really need to fix that problem. not only me getting this low memory box my friends are getting this too as well.

  143. Sedary Raymaker says:

    @75: “I have used for nearly a year now to take great vendor and ad pics without any laggy face or body lights. ”

    I know people who get even better pics in Windlight, but of course they actually use local light sources and always have because that’s just how you take better pictures. And lag isn’t really relevant…professionals expect to take time setting up their shots.

    “I will be forced to leave SL, cash out, sell my land, and close down my business.”

    Oh well, that leaves more potential customers for those willing to adapt to inevitable changes. That’s life, whether First or Second.

  144. Georgette Whitfield says:

    Holding this chat session is a good move, and I trust people’s opinions will be taken on board. I do like 1.19.1.xxx ten billion whatever we’re on now lol. BUT I hate the way it makes my av look. I have fiddled with the settings but still can only take semi-ok photos of avis if facelamps are on, which pisses off other resis who hate facelamps. Gah, what to do?

    “what good they will soon bring (like avatar lighting)” Oh yes!! Please! Please do this! I am a black av so it is even harder for me. In Windlight I sorta disappear 😦 Also, while we’re at it, can you get rid of that gap at the waist of the skirt mesh, cheers! lol

    For anyone who needs help tweaking Windlight settings for their av, check out Caliah Lyon’s post. I still need a facelamp but this helps a lot. Cheers Caliah!

  145. A. Malaprop says:

    Unfortunately not everyone can make your hours, so of course people are going to post problems here.

    The skirt glitch is a huge issue for a lot of people.

    I know I’m not the only one to have customized my settings lower than low, and still be lagged to non activity any time there are more than 5 people in an area (and I know, because I’ve talked to others wit this problem). Customizing the settings low _doesn’t_ make the experience the same.

    The camera…I don’t even know what it’s doing, aside from going completely insane often. I can’t even track what it thinks it’s doing quite often anymore, as I’m now nowhere in the middle of the ocean halfway into the next (empty) simspace after trying to focus on something right next to me.

    Are advanced WL settings really functioning? Because I’ve been playing around with trying to use them, and some of them appear to be completely disabled. Since you’ve changed the entire way certain things work, people want to create new day/night cycles to get by the fact you’ve disabled easy gamma, and the full editor appears to not save any keyframes, even while just editing another in the same cycle. The Load/Save there appear to do nothing as well.

    Random freezes constantly still happen for no reason, and have throughout all the First Look I was testing.

    I applaud your effort…I’m just really not sure this was ready for primetime, with all the problems that it’s added on top of the ones that were already present in the previous code branch.

  146. Lolita Abel says:

    Please fix the memory leaks! It’s already been done by Nicholaz, it’s not like you have to re-invent the wheel or anything…

    Also Please do not make this viewer mandatory. Let us continue to use the old viewer(s) until you guys get a chance to consult with Nicholaz.

    Thanks

  147. Designer Himmel says:

    @117
    hehe… ‘pain mediation’ – that’s what a Doctor does when he says “take two asperin, and you will feel better in the morning”.
    Pastrami seems to be very good at that.
    Sadly, we can’t give SL two asperin so it will be better in the morning.

  148. Oh yeah – I sure hope to be there.

    HOWEVER if I can’t – please allow me to drop a dime to you that the whole PICTURE-TAKING is totally whacked! Distortions and freaky framing, etc.

    The only reliable way to get a good shot that looks half-way decent is to save directly to disk. 🙂

    Other than that… and local lights not appearing until you’re right on the source… and Imposters kicking in way too soon (like ten meters away or something) and…and.. and… LOL

    I’ll try my best to be there. 😉

    Keep on keepin’ on kickin’ azz, pastrami!

    Thanks 🙂

  149. Jay Townsend says:

    Would be great to have the drag custom color back.
    I have noticed more frequent just plain old disconnects with 1.19, (redmapping). Other pc on same connection can be logged in on 1.18 the 1.19 ava and the 1.18 ava can be standing side by side and the 1.19 ava will drop connection and the 1.18 is unaffected. Happens without having the other PC logged in as well, just saying it’s not my net connection.
    The 5-30sec hangup is still there. For me it seems related to the memoery leak as this behavior is more common when the viewer is climbing up above 1g of used memory. I also noticed that it is more frequent on higher draw disances (400+). I should have no problem running 512 all the time, 1.18 ran at 512 for me all of the time with no problem.
    Most of the other complaints I have are just the look of WL. It is bad bad bad indoors. Orange or pink avas and walls. Avas blacked out the non sun side. I have just been running midday all of the time now. It would be nice to have a setting to forcelock midday all the time. I run the shaders off on my other PC. It still doesnt look the same as the non WL viewer. And these people walking around with the supernova facelighters, to me running in midday they are horrible, blindingly horrible. That is the biggest problem with WL, now there is no standard to how the enviroment looks, it is completely different for everyone. That and the fact that many of us spend most of our time indoors looking at textures, not outside staring at the sky, yet trueness of texture display was sacrificed for orange and pink skys.

  150. Strongly suggest holding non-US hours regardless of how productive the US timed meeting is. Really strongly. 😉

  151. Nardi Beaumont says:

    I crash every “three” minutes with this viewer… it has been the worse.

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