Second Life Simulator v1.20.0.83683 Rollout Completion

2008-04-02 1:48am PST: Completed

2008-04-02 1:15am PST: 90% completed

2008-04-01 12:25pm PST: 70% completed

2008-04-01 11:00pm PST: 40% completed

2008-04-01 10:00pm PST: 30% completed

2008-04-01 8:30pm PST: Code distribution complete, rolling restarts beginning

What Were The Results Of Yesterday’s Initial Deploy?

Last evening we rolled out the new simulator to 1575 regions across Second Life, and today we have been evaluating the early results. A surprisingly small number of bugs were reported, with none of them serious enough to cause us to hold off on the rest of the deploy. I credit this early result to the hard work of the many resident beta testers who were deeply involved in the Early Adopter process for months, as well as the over 600 region owners who opted in to beta test the simulator on their regions on Second Life. Hopefully as we complete the rollout we will continue to see mostly minor issues, with the benefit of a noticeably lower simulator crash rate.

The team is already working on the issues discovered since the initial deploy. We are tentatively expecting to do a first update next week to resolve the highest priority issues seen during the intial rollout phase.

As I’ve said before, we expect that you may find some other oddities, and will be actively working new issues as they appear, and are prepared to do short-cycle updates as we resolved these issues.

When Will The Completion Rollout Happen?

Tonight, starting at approximately 7:00 pm PST (19:00 PST), we will begin the deploy cycle to do a rolling restart across the rest of Second Life to update to the new simulator. This rollout will likely take five or six hours to complete.

By the end of this process, all Second Life simulators will be running Second Life Server v1.20.0.83683.

How Do I Know That My Region Has Been Updated?

Open Help > About Second Life… If the fourth text line reads “Second Life Simulator”, then your region has completed the rolling restart and has been updated.

Why Did You Not Post The Release Schedule Earlier?

There were some other systems issues that needed to be taken care of before we could know when the deploy would actually start, and I was holding to see when those issues had been fully resolved. It did not seem prudent to commit to a deploy start on the blog until it seemed that the other issues had been resolved.

Rather than post a series of “delay/reschedule” notes, I decided to hold posting until we were sure that we were ready to start the deploy process, and that it would actually happen tonight. My apologies that this created a bit of a “vacuum” of information about the completion of the deploy process.

Remember… We’re Still Here

Although we have done a very large scale Early Adopter Program, which included over a million hours of simulator run time, we know that you may find some scripts that do not behave quite the same, vehicles that may drive differently or other slight differences in this release. We are still here and will continue to work issues as they arise.

Public Office Hours

We will be continuing to hold open office hours in-world to discuss any issues, reviewing bug reports on the public jira, and fixing critical issues as quickly as we can. Office hours provide you the chance to talk directly with the software development team about issues you may have found, demonstrate problems, and discuss on-going strategy questions. Please feel free to drop in, even if you are not a “hard core developer”.

Office hours are held on:

Tuesdays at 11:00-12:00 PST

Thursdays at 17:00-18:00 PST (5:00 – 6:00 PM PST)

At the center of the region “Content to Hover”

Best regards,

Sidewinder Linden
Havok4 Program Manager

This entry was posted in -Miscellaneous, Announcements & News, Bugs & Fixes. Bookmark the permalink.

151 Responses to Second Life Simulator v1.20.0.83683 Rollout Completion

  1. Lee Ponzu says:

    So, when will we see Havok 5?


  2. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @1 Lee: A comedian, no less ๐Ÿ™‚ Actually it’s not clear whether v5 or a later version would be the right next step, given Second Life’s requirements and the Havok development roadmap. How about we make sure that v4 is stable, that we work some other high priority issues throughout the system, and that we’ve started to take advantage of some of what v4 can do before jumping into another big physics conversion, eh? Best regards, Sidewinder

  3. Ilana Debevec says:


    “A surprisingly small number of bugs were reported, with none of them serious enough to cause us to hold off on the rest of the deploy.”

    Care to elaborate for the technically curious ๐Ÿ™‚ ?

  4. Jordguitar Flasheart says:

    Thank god it is happening tonight. Almost got worried there Sidewinder ๐Ÿ˜€

  5. hugsalot says:

    So this roll out is done? Why is the sim I’m in (Namhae) still running 1.19xxxx?

  6. uh-oh says:

    I look forward to any improvements. Good luck with this. BTW, would the work that is being done today effect in world linden purchases?

  7. Oceanna Shannon says:

    Thanks Sidewinder! Been a pleasure working with you. What are you going to work on once this is all done? or too soon to tell?


  8. Oceanna Shannon says:

    @6: “Tonight, starting at approximately 6:30 pm PST (18:30 PST), we will begin the deploy cycle to do a rolling restart across the rest of Second Life to update to the new simulator. This rollout will likely take five or six hours to complete.”

    you miss that part? I see it as 7:19 SLT right now. 6:30+ 5 hours is 11:30 SLT.

    6:30 < 7:19 < 11:30 SLT

    ‘you’re killing me smalls’


  9. Drew Dwi says:

    @6… READ kthx :p

    “Tonight, starting at approximately 6:30 pm PST (18:30 PST)”

    Takes like 6 hours to do the entire grid I believe….

  10. Elendir Axon says:


    Like mono!

  11. Oceanna Shannon says:


    took the word right out of my mouth ๐Ÿ™‚ hopefully we get the interaction from the mono team (and beta testing ability) that we did from Sidewinder.


  12. Elendir Axon says:

    Uh, also I just checked Saranac still shows as is the rollout still going on?

  13. Razor says:

    Sidewinder is cool! Let him do any project!

  14. Steve Steed says:

    I just want to tell you Lindens good luck. Weโ€™re all counting on you โ€ฆ ๐Ÿ˜‰

  15. Angular Friction is the biggest noticeable difference in vehicles, on a scale of needing over ^2 to get vehicles to behave similarly to the way they did in H1. I have updates that I plan to roll out when H4 goes grid-wide (I thought grid wide deployment and upside down gravity was today? ๐Ÿ˜€ ) but I am worried that anything that I change will have to be changed again if some variables are modified in future updates. What’s a vehicle builder to do Sidewinder?

  16. Vasily says:

    Still think it is ….. April Fool’s

  17. jz paine says:

    seem just you .. yell at your ISP Memyselfandi! Thanks for the update Lindens. I was also starting to wonder if this was really a Aprils fools joke ๐Ÿ˜€

  18. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @9 Oceanna: Oops… As I said I held off announcing based on some internal issues, and forgot to update the time in the post! Sorry about that. /Sidewinder

  19. Karine Koba says:

    I have Second Life Server in Averlast Champions and when I move around my boxing rings, any of the 4 I have installed there, the camera angle moves around the ring at odd angles on its own, and wont stop. I tried adjusting the angle but it wont help. It’s impossible to do boxing this way.

    When in Trueblood it works fine. They are the same boxing rings. In Trueblood where it works fine, its Second Life Server

    I tried restarting Averlast Champions, it did not help.

  20. Ravanne Sullivan says:

    Why Did You Not Post The Release Schedule Earlier?

    I have Project Manaer experience, nothing kills stakeholder confidence quiker then lack of communication, even bad news is better than no news.

    Glad that things are looking good, I am looking foreward to the improvements.

  21. I am very hopeful this upgrade will improve Second Life performance. Thank you for all your hard work! Even with the problems there is not a more creative place to spend time one’s free time. My partner enjoys building sims and I have Reveal Magazine to build each month.

  22. Elissa Bristol says:

    Ahhh so, this new Havok thing whatever just ate 3 700L TP bases and a 1500 DMC Zyngo machine of my partner’s. Whats going on and why do we not have a post about SL eating stuff, again, as usual?

  23. Elvis Orbit says:

    @ 15: From the BLOG:
    Tonight, starting at approximately 6:30 pm PST (18:30 PST), we will begin the deploy cycle to do a rolling restart across the rest of Second Life to update to the new simulator. This rollout will likely take five or six hours to complete.

    My early adapter region was updated yesterday and works great! So it`s not an April fools joke hehe!

  24. JayR Cela says:

    best of luck / the H4 team rocks :_)

    JayR Cela

  25. @2 better yet how about we make sure MONEY is stable… lets quit moving on to other projects when the current ones FAIL too many times during the day!!!!

    I looked at Project Open Letter today it was dated 4/30/27007. 335 days ago & none of the issues have been taken care of. 335 days & yet money hasnt been fixed friends list still break. Its becoming a JOKE. Lets fix the bugs please!!!!!

    Anyone who would like to read the Project Open Letter dated 4/30/2007 please message me in world for a copy of it – ThaBiGGDoGG Richez. You will see Linden Labs hasn’t improved any bugs we mentioned a year ago to them. You will read about all the issues on this letter that we still currently experience daily on SL.

  26. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @16 Mifune: From this point forward we will be avoiding changing existing parameters as much as possible. If you have specific questions please feel free to attend office hours and stay involved. If we do find a major problem that affects a wide range of vehicles that involves adjusting a parameter we may do that, but we are trying to be conscious of the wide range of content that people have created in Second Life, and have invested a lot of time in providing as much backward compatibility as possible with this release. /Sidewinder

  27. Blinders Off says:

    Hi Sidewinder. I heard a rumor recently that I’d like to have verified to debunked please.

    I know from your posts that the “ceiling” limit is being raised from 768m to 4096m. Woots!

    But the word is that we won’t be able to BUILD above 768m.


    I mean, we’ve always been able to fly above 768m. If we still can’t build above 768m… makes no sense.

    What are we supposed to do, rez something on the ground and ram it up into high sky with the Z position setting? What if we then need to add to that item… are we supposed to rez a buncha prims on the ground and slam them up there as well, awaiting future use?

    Seems a whole bunch nutty to me. So if you could set the matter straight on this, appreciated.

  28. Azure Lukas says:

    I totally agree with Ravanne Sullivan post #23 I too have IT Project experience and over communication is better than none. You have that wonderful event calendar which should have been used for communicating the schedule. We were used to going there and when we did not see anything there… Well this last minute announcement is a pain. HOWEVER! If good communications are used. I promise not to chase you all around in world for answers Cheers & Good Luck – Azure!

  29. Well DOH! says:

    Are those continuous crashes and stack heap whatever messages an april fools joke?.

  30. @24: Apparently Sidewinder put in the deployment time after I posted lol. See 19. I think it’s safe to say everyone is on pins and needles tonight; this is a very big thing imo, and way ahead of the original June estimates late last year, thanks to the early adopters and the work of the H4 team.

  31. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @23 Elissa: That sounds like it may not be a Havok4 issue. Could you please iM me inworld to describe more about what happened. If it is something that did not rez or a vendor that did not deliver product this may be due to another issue. If I can get a clearer description we might be able to figure out the cause. /Sidewinder

  32. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @28 Blinders: I’m not sure where those other rumors came from, but yes, the new build height will be up to 4096m, BUT before that is live, a viewer update will need to be deployed including the adjusted code for the viewer side. That code has been written and just needs to get into a deployed viewer.



  33. It doesn’t make a bit of difference to me whether the Havoc4-ification of SL happens today or is spread out over the next month. Take your time and don’t waste any time telling me in advance.

    I’m not seeing any adverse consequences in my lackadaisical floating around TPing at random.

  34. Xavier Felwitch says:

    Sidewinder – Just a bit of feedback from the last havok 4 thread…

    Dwayne Oliva mentioned there was a โ€œav glidingโ€ bug while holding items and not having ao, i spend 5 hours yesterday in a H4 enabled sim with items in hands with no sign of this problem at all. So maybe its only with physics enabled items?

    anyways good job with H4 ๐Ÿ™‚

  35. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @29 Azure and others: I posted yesterday that the deploy of the second phase would happen today. It was only the specific time which was not posted well in advance, because that was still in question… /Sidewinder (who has posted 27 blogs and reviewed and responded to many of 1800 commentes on this project so far in order to have open communication ๐Ÿ˜‰

  36. Harke Hartnell says:

    Keep rockin’ you guys, glad to see its going so smoothly ๐Ÿ™‚

  37. Speckwurst says:

    awesome, none of the tons of vehicles i bought are driving like they did before. some are fast as hell, other super slow and hop around like bunnies, bikes bank in curves like laying on the side and dont turn at all then there are cars that do 360s’ at full speed when you only think about touching the left or right button. ๐Ÿ˜ฆ so HAVOK 4 has cost me thousands of L$ for rubbish, since not all creators are so nice to update their stuff. the sim i used to race in will definately crash less, because nobody will drive there . ๐Ÿ˜ฆ

  38. Sean Heying says:

    Sidewinder, will the swimmer be fixed in the coming weeks by the Havok team or is this one of those vehicles that the creator has to retool? Current behavior is to go into fall instead of hover.

  39. Pirate Russell says:

    Well…. My AO doesn’t work in the new sim version, but I’m not month to month, so I have no recourse…. alas….

    Pirate Russell

  40. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @38 Speckwurst: We worked with dozens of vehicle manufacturers, who attended office hours and were involved with the decisions. One decision that was made with the explicit involvement of the vehicle manufacturers was to raise the max motor speed.

    Although they would potentially have to do some changes, this improves their ability to build controllable higher speed vehicles going forward. Many of them had previous had to augment the “motor” in vehicles with additional impulse pushes to get higher speed. Now that we have raised the max speed, they can now go much faster. This decision was driven by the community, and was discussed in multiple office hours with the makers of a variety of products.

    We have been resolving various vehicle issues over the last few builds and are still working on open issues. If you have vehicles that do not steer correctly, please drop me a notecard with the specifics – or even better IM me so we can meet in world so that I can see the issues. Some of these may already be fixed in an update that we are working on – one that hopefully will be released next week.

    Please see the notes above in the post about continuing to resolve issues after the deploy of the new simulator. We are still here resolving open issues.



  41. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @39 Sean: We’re still working on the swimmer issues. We had though that was resolved, but did not understand the full range of behaviors that it was supposed to be tested for. With some additional reports, we now understand some more things that need to be resolved about it. /Sidewinder

  42. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @40 Pirate: Which AO is not working? Could you send me a copy, or IM me in-world with the specifics so that we can take a look at the problem? Thanks, Sidewinder

  43. Tristin Mikazuki says:

    hhmm can ya give me a sim name thats on the new code?
    so far all the places I have seen are the old ones ;-/

  44. Takat Su says:

    “Surprisingly small number of problems”. Little things like not being able to teleport, not being able to log in, not being able to rezz things, not being able to save things, having things disappear suddenly, things that are full mod, but can’t be given to my friend, etc.

    Yep… little things.

    Yes, I’m frustrated as I watch SL tumble down around our ears and my customers complain about things not working, my vendors stop working, etc.

  45. Dolci Woodget says:

    What about those of us not showing the right server info? Seems quite a number are still showing This has been asked multiple times, but has not been addressed. Thank you


  46. Phantom Ninetails says:

    Thanks, Sidewinder.

    I’m looking forward to this update, it’ll be interesting to see what it does to the sandboxes. I’ve noticed there’s a bit more friction, and certain vehicles tip over easier..

  47. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @46 Dolci: It has been addressed a number of times, including in the original blog post. The update will take 5-6 hours to complete, and is in motion now. /Sidewinder

  48. Ilana Debevec says:


    “Seems quite a number are still showing This has been asked multiple times, but has not been addressed. Thank you”

    go ALLLLLLLLLLLL the way back to the original post…

    “How Do I Know That My Region Has Been Updated?

    Open Help > About Second Lifeโ€ฆ If the fourth text line reads โ€œSecond Life Simulatorโ€ณ, then your region has completed the rolling restart and has been updated.”

  49. Xavier Felwitch says:

    @46 that would proberly be beacuse they are still updating the servers… it was said in the blog entry that it was going to start at 7pm and would take 5 or 6 hours to complete…

  50. Pirate Russell says:

    Sidwinder, thanks for the help. We discovered the error was not with the update, it was a new outfit that had an AO built into the boots…. Sorry to waste your time, but thanks for the response!


  51. Whaa Whaa says:

    **Wow, now we have an upgrade from a completely unscalable havok engine to v4. (LL admitted to its lack of scalability in press releases)

    So unscalable that it basically has to be reprogrammed. This should shut up the community about new sims for a while. Mission Accomplished!

    Not sure but isnt taking the same old engine and starting over from scratch with the code going to eventually bring us right back to where we are?

    Raising the ceiling is fine and all but that could have been done in the previous version.

    Too bad LL is not willing to put forth the cash to build a better engine, like all the other video game companies do.

    Oh well business as usuall.

  52. Jordguitar Flasheart says:

    Will the restart go north to south or what? How do we avoid the wave?

  53. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @52 Whaa: I will provide stability metrics after the new simulator has been in operation for a week or two. If the results are similar to those we found during the Early Adopter Program you will see objective proof that we have improved system stability with this update. Best regards, Sidewinder

  54. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @53 Jordguiter: Restarts generally follow numerical simulator number (in Help > About Second Life… on the third text line, the one of the form:



  55. Ann Otoole says:

    Sidewinder, can you please go take over running the database side of the house? The loss of transactions and build capability on a daily basis has become rather serious. We need someone who can get the job done over there making sure the priorities are where they need to be. Connecting to a sim is really great. But the entire system relies on the database architecture and system which means it is infinitely more important than most other activities.

    We have heard nothing from the database side explaining why these issues exist. The speak in terms of 14 year olds referring to “gremlins” and such. They may not have a solid comprehension of the audience intellect level.

    Thanks for the outstanding job and significant display of communications skill.

  56. Britpop says:

    I second Ann…. Sidewinder for president ๐Ÿ˜‰

  57. uh-oh says:

    ” Iโ€™m not sure where those other rumors came from, but yes, the new build height will be up to 4096m,”

    Wow that will be cool having a skybox on top of the world. I will have to make sure that I do not sleep walk. : )
    When will this new viewer be released? Will there be any other land control changes? One example is how wii the high the ban line extend for people you ban from your property? Will it be raised to extend that whole new distance or stay at 800m?
    I enjoy flying out here and I look forward to any new improvements that will make my birds fly better. I may start flying again.
    Good luck with this new roll out.

  58. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @58 uh-oh: I do not think the next viewer release date has been finalized, but we are hoping to get this patch into the next viewer release. We had to hold off until this simulator was across all of Second Life in order to avoid creating problems on the older simulators, and now that this deploy will soon be done, it the other part can be released. /Sidewinder

  59. Whisper says:

    @40 welcome to sl speckwurst. 99% of the vehicles i’ve bought were absolute rubbish to drive in h1, goodbye, and good riddance. h4 *should* deliver better vehicles.

  60. Karine Koba says:

    Anyone could reply to my post #20 pls. It is VERY annoying it happens not only in the rings but anywhere in similar built areas on my sim and it has never done that before.

  61. U M says:

    I want to say this is a grand moment for us. Those that have been dreaming of this are about to have or wish. As for the people bitching about vehicles. scripts this is not new and told to us ( or those like me know this was going to result) All i have to say to you is. BIE BIE and I hope you enjoy or the sims. Because frankly speaking if you don`t fully understand the effects and the causes you have no right to complain or bitch. what you want? the same all simulator that crashes and burns? 3 1/3 years this dream was in the making and now its coming true……..thank you sidewonder and the rest of the team ……. atleast some of the ll staff is doing their job correctly without drama…..

    U sagi Musashi

  62. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @20 Karine: Could you please contact me inworld so that we can take a look at this. The camera control code is slightly different in 1.20, and may need some more work. Thanks, SIdewinder

  63. Dallas Seaton says:

    Sidewinder, let me echo the compliments already in this thread from several others. This project, from you and your team, is the most professional and well managed I’ve seen in my time in SL, and additionally your time and efforts at communicating so well with the residents through these blogs are GREATLY appreciated. I hope some of the others at LL can and will learn from your example – and I agree with those who said we’d LOVE to see you put in charge of updating, improving and stabilizing the asset/database servers next! Thanks again – to you and to your team.

  64. Oceanna Shannon says:

    Oh no Sidewinder ๐Ÿ™‚ Your posts were fine for me.

    I meant what is your next endeavor in SL. Many people have noticed your hard work and attention. So any project you work on I think you’ll have a loyal following looking to help out. Myself included.

    Personally I am anxious to see mono get added…but any addition managed as you have managed this h4 project will be a wonderous thing.

    Thanks again!


  65. Jordguitar Flasheart says:

    We just got updated and it works great.

  66. Gypsy Paz says:

    Awesome! I was lucky enough to get on the first roll out, and am extremely happy with it. I’ve noticed a couple minor issues still, but well worth a few growing pains!

    Kudos and a job well done!

  67. U M says:

    I am noticing teleport failures some sims. is it because of the change over?

  68. les says:

    There was a long testing period where anyone could put forth bug reports on jira and even show up in person to talk about them twice a week. Unfortunity too many vehicles makers are busy cutting and pasting stolen DT scripts into models to sell people for 2500+ to bother.

    The H4 team is very in tune and responsive to issues. Too bad not all car dealers are ๐Ÿ™‚

    Most vehicles will work right out of the box. For those hacking away at DT scripts and now find you have a rocket car…try this line…

    if(linear_motor.x > 40)
    { linear_motor.x = 40;}

    I’ll let you figure out where to put it ๐Ÿ™‚
    Or just remove silly llImpulse stuff and have a car that doesn’t fly to space in top gear.

    /me stands on a pole at Mooz waiting for h4 to hit like a kid at xmas

  69. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @68 U M: Teleport failures are likely from something else… although if you try to teleport to a region that is in the shutdown or restart phase you might see a transient teleport failure. /Sidewinder

  70. Solomon Devoix says:

    I normally hate “ditto!” posts, but I don’t think I could say it any better than Dallas did with this:

    “Sidewinder, let me echo the compliments already in this thread from several others. This project, from you and your team, is the most professional and well managed Iโ€™ve seen in my time in SL, and additionally your time and efforts at communicating so well with the residents through these blogs are GREATLY appreciated. I hope some of the others at LL can and will learn from your example – and I agree with those who said weโ€™d LOVE to see you put in charge of updating, improving and stabilizing the asset/database servers next! Thanks again – to you and to your team.”

  71. Dytska Vieria says:

    Sidewinder and all, congratulations! A true engineer’s job is sometimes difficult especially with a huge rollout such as this; if something goes wrong, it goes very bad. Your careful and meticulous planning was a success and good for all. Great Work!

  72. Farallon Greyskin says:

    Some improvements to my boat. Sitting on then unsitting on it does not launch it across the sim any more ๐Ÿ™‚

    But I notice that if I am hovering over water at a low altitude I slowly drop into the water…

  73. Farallon Greyskin says:

    Uh, is the build height settable?

    It’s still at 768 on my updated sim.

  74. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @73 Farallon: Are you using an AO while hovering, by chance? I just re-tested this and found that float seemed stable even right above the water. If this happens without an AO, could you send me a LM inworld so I can try it at your location? Thanks, Sidewinder

  75. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @74 Farallon: The new build height is cross-checked in the viewer and will not be enabled until a viewer update is released. /Sidewinder

  76. Farallon Greyskin says:

    Oops, NM, gotta wait for updated viewer…

  77. Farallon Greyskin says:

    No AO, no hover object. Just normal hovering.

  78. CC says:

    would be realllllllllllllllly nice if u gave a flippin 5 min warning when u change these over rolling restart NO 5 MIN WWARNING POPUPS GRRRRRRRRR

  79. Prospero Linden says:

    CC — sorry about that. The deploy code we were using has a bug in it that causes a small fraction of regions — something like 1% of the regions — to fail to get a warning before they are restarted. The vast majority of regions were getting warnings.

    We’re pausing and resuming the roll right now using the code that does not have this bug.

  80. CC says:

    kinda to late when u lose hours of work =/ just another excuse as far as im concerned 3 weeks of stale money transfers and we cant even get a warning when its restarting im sick of bugs buy a case of raid please

  81. Mini Pinion says:

    Hovering seems to slowly drop you, when you are using flight assists, like the one bundled with the mysti tool (at least for that one it’s true).

    And the slow walking while holding space bar is still broken in the release version. I start to wonder if that one was a bug or a feature .. in both cases it was very helpful, while it lasted, though!

  82. Geraldo Holgado says:


    is it possible to keep at least one Havok1 (sandbox-) region in operation ? This would be very helpful to solve some of the remaining issues concerning physics, movement etc.

    It would be a good idea to place this Havok1 sandbox adjacent to a Havok4 sandbox to allow direct comparison of the behaviour of both simulator versions.

    For me, I still see differences with physics objects moved at constant speed by periodically calling “llMoveToTarget” with an optimized “tau” parameter for smooth movement but still acceptable tracking error. On Havok4 it is much too jerky in comparison to Havok1.
    (I did not find something similar in the public JIRA Tracker).

    Best Regards,

  83. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @82 Mini: I just tested Mystitool and it seems ok to me.. Have you installed the lasted Mystitool update? The newest version has some fixes in it, and I think Mystical distributed that in auto-update form to paid users a couple of weeks ago. /Sidewinder

  84. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @83 Geraldo: We will be keeping some Havok1-based regions on the Beta Preview, but probably not on the main Second Life system. /Sidewinder

  85. Argent Stonecutter says:

    Right now, to build over 4096 meters, build at a lower level, take the build into inventory, and rez it in one lump or use something like rez-foo to rez it again at altitude.

    You can check out the result at my place in the south of LostFurest dAlliez, I’ve set up my megaskybox at 3800 meters as a demo. You can fly up or use the teleporters.

  86. rachel corleone says:

    What a disappointment! Our mainland sim performance has plummeted now Havoc 4 is running. Our total frame time never got near 20 before, and now it’s over 23 all the time! And 80% of it (at least) is physics, according to the stats bar. What the heck is going on?

  87. Mini Pinion says:

    My Mysti should be the newest version available and there is also a link to a jira entry in the makers profile, that is about this very problem and still seems to be not deployed so far.

  88. Awesome, Sidewinder! Just tried out some jetskis and the sim crossing was barely a bump. Woot!

  89. Argent Stonecutter says:

    Mini@88: I’ve tried a few different things in Flight Feather to keep totally steady flight, and they seem to work when you’re *flying* but to keep stable when you stopped I have it set a light llMoveToTarget anchor.

  90. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @86 rachel: Do you happen to have many rezzers there, perhaps a fish rezzer or a physical wave rezzer? We have noticed that some of them are written in a way that requires extra Havok4 calculation time. If you could please send me an IM or landmark I can take a look. /Sidewinder

  91. Deany Fall says:

    Why is there no Havok4 on the Teen Grid?!?!

  92. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @91 Deany: Once the rollout is complete, there will be, but the rollout is stil in process. /Sidewinder

  93. Spank Lovell says:

    Guys I’m not so sure on this one.

    I logged in just before the rolling restart warning so took the 5 minutes to look around our sim and give me a mental “picture” of how 1.19 “felt”.

    Logged back in after the restart and I have to say I’m having grave performance issues on Virgem Haven. Not sure if its because I’m using the latest release candidate or the server code but I’m now watching my AV walk slower and slower and then suddenly rubber band to where he should be. I’m fairly sure the frame rate has also dropped.

    Could this be due to network latency while all the other regions are restarting? I should imagine that causes quite a large amount of network chatter.

    I’ll check further when I get back from RL work but I’e also just noticed the alarming rate at wich the SL viewer is consuming memory!

  94. tc says:

    Hey Lindens! Whatever it is that sends out the countdown dialogs doesn’t seem to be on good terms with whatever queues up the restarts. The 5 minute, 3 minute and so on warnings come, then the restart happens hours later. One last unexpected reboot is kind of a fitting sendoff for Havok 1, but it would be cool if the notices could sync up the next time around.

  95. Cherry Czervik says:

    COMMUNICATION please guys.

    Many people are like me, absorbed and immersed. We don’t stop, necessarily, to read the blog.

    When things crap out, I personally just think there’s work needs doing (but then I work in online gaming, I know how it is). However, there’s a world of difference between knowing something is probably going on and knowing in advance it’s a major piece of work and that something is GOING to fail. Case closed it will fail … that’s the nature of the beast.

    I think you all do a great job, technically, and keeping this beast alive is extremely laudable. I do think, though, that the way information is cascaded could up your goodwill as the other point is that I’ve been here two years and seen you grow and improve.

    Others have not and that makes a perception of the product being faulty where it is not.

    So – Sidewinder – these updates here are great. Maybe those blue warning boxes should come back though? WELL in advance, not just in emergencies?

  96. Prospero Linden says:

    tc — what region are you in?

  97. toric says:

    Oh sorry, it was Hanson in this case, notice went out about 10 PM SLT but the version number didn’t flip over ’til quite a bit later. Possible that the viewer is just displaying stale info? I did sneak out of there to avoid getting logged off.

  98. Prospero Linden says:

    toric, according the logs, the warnings started at 21:53, the region was stoped at 21:59, and it was all back at 22:01.

  99. Detox says:

    omg its awesome. sim is running at 1.00, 45FPS, smoothly as it can be, I just started linking stuff I wasnt able to link before, and when I do and its too far apart, it still links the other part as another piece.. how awesome is that???

  100. Imako says:

    I know the sim im always on is havok4 now, my impulse booster has slowed down, just wondering if it will be fixed or not.

  101. Mike says:

    linkage is reall wierd now

    I can link a bunch of things in a row for a REALLY long ways, like 30 or40 meters worth of boxes all linked together, but I cant link two boxes 12 meters apart, it doesnt let me ๐Ÿ˜ฆ

  102. Mike says:

    see!! please fix!!

  103. Britpop says:

    mike, if I judge it right you werent able to link them before either. on more info about the linkability, check the wiki (also mentioned in previous blogposts).

    linkability is done using formulas, not just distance between objects

  104. Mike says:

    I can’t link two boxes 5 meters apart now lol I could before, I have items in my inventory that are linked, that wont link now :p

  105. Sonja Felisimo says:


    our sim is now on Havok 4…………….BIG BIG KISS for Sidewinder ๐Ÿ˜‰

    Noticed few small glitches but wow…………i am impressed.

    TY Sidewinder and your whole team if you ever have time in world come to my house drinks are on me.

    Lets hope the asset server team can learn something from this ๐Ÿ˜‰

  106. Mike says:

    my giant hamster ball doesnt work anymore either lol

  107. Mike says:

    oh no wait, it does *phew* I was worried for sec ๐Ÿ˜› it just takes momentum to get it going now

  108. Darling Brody says:

    BROKEN BROKEN BROKEN!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Half of the floor in my shop is now phantom under havok4!!!

    get this. all the prims are linked. Only some faces of some prims are phantom in the link set.

    People are falling out of my shop.

    See my profile picks, and walk over by the stargate if you want to see how well havok4 is for business.

  109. Luna Fratica says:

    Somehow i have more crashes then ever…..even right after logging in…..changed nothing on my land, so i cant think of any reason why this is happening…

  110. DW says:

    @108 (Darling): I’ve walked through your shop, found that hole… well, what to say, such glitches have been around in havok1 too. why dont you just replace that prim? XD
    and seriously, its not half of your shop, and and havok isnt bad for business. *sighs*

  111. Luna Fratica says:

    i noticed it happends when i try to find something in my inventory, or when i try to open a notecard…….

  112. Eata Kitty says:

    DEV-12030 wasn’t fixed?

    This surely has to be an issue as it performed as expected in 1.19.

  113. Elvis Orbit says:

    It’s Here! Congrats Sidewinder and the H4 team!

  114. just me says:

    very good! now raise the prim limit

  115. PJ Gibbs says:

    A small suggestion if I may Sidewinder… why not have a private island option where the build height is 1024m, but the ground area is 4 times the size… so the buildable volume is just the same, but for things like race tracks etc, there would be far more usable area…. just a thought!

  116. Darling Brody says:


    It is not just in that one spot by the gate. I have put up railing to mark it all off now so sidewinder can look in the morning. he’s sleeping now.

    It seems all the prims that used top sheer are phantom on one face of the prim, but not phantom on other faces.

    This has not happened once in 18 months in the meyers sim. In fact it has never happened to one of my builds anywhere.

    Even if it is not unique to havok4 as you say, it is something that needs to be addressed while they have the full team working on the physics engine.

    As for replacing the prims. It mgiht fix them. It might not. But it will not help the lindens find and fix the fault if they cant so see it, and poke it with a sharp stick.


  117. AWM Mars says:

    Despite all the flak you guys at LL ‘insert trademark’ take, it has to be said that you are doing a great job. It cannot be an easy task juggling all the users, servers, beta software etc….

    If I were to gripe after making that statement, it would be on the basis that there is around 1.5-2million USD traded in the platform every day, you can imagine the damage to that trade and business, when you guys get it wrong. We are literaly in your hands. Some prior knowledge of the deployment, would have allowed a lot of us to reschedule meetings and tasks to lessen the impact and net losses.

  118. @115: I second this MegaSim option. It seems that the current grid/map system is a big roadblock in implementing wider sim sizes. Additionally, the way the maps for terraforming would be affected. Since sims can handle up to 4096 x 256, i don’t see why we can’t have 1024×1024 (same volume).

    Wider area and delegated to a separate area on the map, so as to not disturb the current format of the grid. That’s what I want for Xmas.

    Anyhow, happy that H4 is grid wide…stayed up all night. Good job guys.

  119. Vylixan Fallon says:

    Can’t wait until I am home to see how great H4 is ๐Ÿ™‚

  120. Dumisani Ah says:

    Hi Sidewinder, the upgrade is commendable if a little short notice. However the impact on Bishara Resorts’s EPIC wave surfing sim, Majini Island, is major and bad. We have had negative results using our Heather Goodliffe EPIC 2 waves, the best EPIC sim in SL now works like a cripple 486 ๐Ÿ˜‰ The best description is that the physical objects seem to rezz lower than the water level now, as opposed to V1.19. As this may result in negative results for all surfing sims using physics enabled waves for surfing, would it be possible to have someone swing by and take a look? Either myself or VW Sands can assist with this in-world. Dumi

  121. Tribal Toland says:

    Congratulations to the H4 Team on getting this completed ๐Ÿ™‚

  122. Gil Druart says:

    Sidewinder Linden Says:
    April 1st, 2008 at 9:07 PM

    “The camera control code is slightly different in 1.20, and may need some more work. Thanks, SIdewinder”

    Agggh! I never saw that in any of the release notes (ok, probably means I missed it). I had been thinking I was going slowly insane ….

    The camera controls definitely behave subtly differently in a way I couldn’t possibly describe. I suppose I’ll get used to it. And more quickly now all sims are the same again lol

  123. Pingback: Second Life Italia Blog » Blog Archive » L’intera Main Grid di Second Life passa ad Havok 4

  124. jenn luke says:

    Never had a sim crash, stats have always been ok,
    SIM FPS from 45 to 33 every second, time dilation jumping down to values of 0.5, Total frame time jumping to over 40ms, majority being physics.

    Did i see someone mention wave rezzers being the issue? I use boro boro ones? Is there a general guide for things to watch out for so i can help debug my once perfect stable sim? Im not against the upgrade, just would like to know how to help myself readjust

  125. Phil Deakins says:

    Each sim shares a computer (box) with 3 other sims. Does anyone know if a rolling restart causes sims to share with different sims than the ones they shared with before the restart?

    The reason I ask is because the Stats are slightly better now. e.g. the sim I’m in has a Time Dilation of 1.0 most of the time. Before the restart it was never better than 0.99, even though the Frame Time was usually less than 22ms. I’d put it down to one or more of the other sims that share the same box.

  126. R H says:

    G’morning Sidewinder,
    My compliments to your patience in dealing with the illiterate in the April Fools Day crowd :-p
    And my gratitude that someone at LL seems to actually care about resolving demonstrable problems. iow problems that can be repeated at will because they actually exist and can be “demonstrated” at will. Add me to list of folks who would like to see your expertise and focus on the database issues. But I digress…
    Anyways…. forget what I wanted to say ๐Ÿ˜ฎ
    Any chance you have a shot at the CEO job?
    Your demonstrable talents could be well [ab]used in that position :}
    You rock my virtual world SL [Sidewinder Linden NOT Second Lifeยฎ]
    Rana Harrop
    Avatar since Nov 2007

  127. Sedary Raymaker says:

    I’m at home running it through its paces. I’m pleased…some of the smaller niggles I had seem to be ironed out. Whee!

  128. rachel corleone says:

    @90 Sidewinder

    I’m in Chilbo. And this morning things seem back to normal:

    Total Frame Time: 10-12
    Sim physics: 1-2
    Scripts: 8-9

    But I did notice that ~100 fewer scripts are running today, compared to yesterday. I don’t know what they might be.

  129. Darek Deluca says:

    As I reported to you in Havok4 beta, Slow physical motion that changes direction (slow pendulum or swing) is VERY jerky and stutters. Had smooth realistic motion prior to this release.

    Also, Omniphaze still does not work going down from standing position.

  130. Ceera Murakami says:

    *sigh* Well, this new Havok 4 Server release just broke all the Swimmer 1.1 HUDs by Siggy Romulus. I try to swim in my pool, which worked fine yesterday, and I randomly sink to the bottom. I thought they had tested Siggy’s stuff in the Beta, and that only his diving board needed a scripting adjustment?

    I also had to reset the scripts in all my Animania fish and ducks in my pond, but that was no big deal. They seem to be working OK now.

  131. I can’t believe I’m saying this but “Bravo LL!”

    So far so good with H4.

    And extra kudos to Sidewinder. In my year and a bit here I’ve never seen this level of interaction and communication from you guys. Absolutely brilliant. A lot of folks appreciate this and I think the whole of LL could learn a thing or 20 from you.

    Good job team. ๐Ÿ™‚

  132. Zi Ree says:

    @130 Ceera Murakami: The Swimmer bug has been reported a long time ago and is partly fixed in Havok 4. They are working on a complete fix, as you can read in this blog posting in comment #42 by Sidewinder.

  133. Master Ericc says:

    i’m so glad the new update has fixed constant crashing some people have been experiencing ๐Ÿ˜€ i’m down from my usual 30 crashes a day to all of abut 25 crashes a day so much better ๐Ÿ˜‰

  134. Starsaphire Dagger says:

    Better experience? My performance values are cut in half and I’m crashing twice as much. Opening this window crashed me. I wear no laggy items… I’ve had most everything turned off in order to stay inworld for 1.19. If I turn anything else off this world will be nothing but gray blobs.
    Please let me know when my experience is getting better ๐Ÿ˜ฆ
    Meanwhile I think I will go back to World of Warcraft… at least they understand the experience takes priority over pushing updates out faster than Microsoft.

  135. VolmarrGoth Volmarr says:

    The Steam launch by Mary Edison now sits about half a meter too low in the water so that water is inside the boat when using it.

  136. Nad Gough says:

    Congratulations on this roll out! Sidewinder you are great – answering these questions here – following up with folks and their issues. Your work is exemplary. Thank you very much.

  137. dumisani says:

    @124 – Hi Jenn, the difference between Bora Bora waves and the ones from Heather Goodliffe with the H4 problems is physics ๐Ÿ˜‰ I do not believe you should have a problem with the Bora Bora waves that are cosmetic in nature. The HG waves are for actual surfing or windsurfing activities and interact with the boards. They ‘push’ the boards hence the reason that they include physics in their operation. If you do see problems with the BB waves, I would be interested to hear as we use them for cosmetic purposes too, but do not see any problem at the moment.

  138. Ice Pak says:

    As per post #135, alot of the boats I’ve built over the last few months have now sunk, too late to look into it now as I need sleep though something has drastically affected the VEHICLE_HOVER_HEIGHT/VEHICLE_BUOYANCY ??

  139. Marianne McCann says:

    Overall, good stuff, even if I had to run around fixing some of my own products last night. I’m am noticing some issues with the Siggy Romulus Swimmer, as well as Becca Hua’s ChildMultiTool AO, however. More than willing to show ya, Sidewinder, though I’m sure you’re aware of the former.

  140. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @120 Dumsani: “We have had negative results using our Heather Goodliffe EPIC 2 waves”

    I am not sure if this is the same wave set that I saw a bug report on yesterday, but if it works in a similar way, we have discovered that there are wave generators that create tortured, interpenetrating tori in large volumes, and are made physical – so the physics engine has to provide modeling for them. The new physics engine does more work on this sort of complex shape and it thus can create performance issues. We are working n this issue and will either have a solution for it or will discuss with the vendors how to create a product that does not create such a huge physical impact for a visual effect.



  141. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @124 Jenn: Probably the biggest finding of this rollout is that some auto-rezzers are generating objects that present a higher physics load with the new physics model than the earlier one. If you would provide a sample of the item we will look at it to see what the issue is. Regards, Sidewinder

  142. Marianne McCann says:

    Sorry for the double post: also seeing issues with Snaptick Laxness’ wonderful Snap Kayak. It too sits low in the water, particularly to the rear of the craft. There are public access ones to the North of Livingtree island which exhibit the issue.

  143. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @125 Phil: Rolling restarts usually do not move the region to a different host. The Second Life Grid architecture is dynamic, and on regular restarts a region will often be moved from server to server, and thus paired with a different region set after the restart.

    As opposed to the wave and auto-rezzer problem noted above, there are regions on which there has been a net positive performance gain from switching to the new simulator, so it could be that…


  144. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @133 Eric: The crashes that this update reduces are simulator crashes – the server-side crashes that throw all avatars off of a region at once. The individual viewer crashes are not affected by this update, and there is another team working on that problem. /Sidewinder

  145. Ann Otoole says:

    Ramp jumping Arcadia Asylum’s old pickup truck is rather… entertaining. ๐Ÿ˜€

    Unfortunately I was unable to create a high speed hot wheels(R) style loop de loop. However I was able to create a loop device that allows transit albeit slowly. The limiting factor appears to be prim size.

    I suspect we will get there though.

  146. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @135 Volmar: I do not remember Mary Edison being involved with the beta process, although many other boat builders were. Would you please create a jira about the float position of that boat, along with specifics of the version and item so that we can take a look at it? Thanks, Sidewinder

  147. eyerocker picket says:

    I have an elevator system that has stopped working correctly and was directed to the jira but the support portal. I do not have the ability to modify the scripts in the system and cannot get ahold of the creator (which i have done in the last few weeks to see if they can fix it but they cant) My questions is what are my options for a system that was working fine before the new havok4 and now is just a lump of expensive useless prims?

  148. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @138 Ice: Please write up the issues you are seeing with boat flotation and get involved, either through bug reporting or attending office hours. There were some float height issues brought up by the sailing community that have been resolved down to a very small variation. I do not know without some specifics why you are seeing issues with your boats. If you would provide a jira item with specifics on the amount of variation and the product name we can look a the issue. If these are custom boats that you have built, please IM me and I can pick up an ID inworld. Thanks, Sidewinder

  149. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @139 MaryAnn: Would you please write up the Becca AO problem and contact me so that we can see a demo? This is something I hadn’t heard about before. /Sidewinder

  150. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @147 eyerocker: “what are my options for a system that was working fine before the new havok4”

    As with anyone else raising issues, I am asking you to paritipcate, to file a jira bug report explaining the problem, and we will look at the issue.



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