Havok™4 Beta Preview Update with 8 fixes (2008-03-27) – RC3 of the new Second Life Simulator

Quick Status

The Havok™4-based Second Life simulator v1.19.3.83444 has been deployed to the Beta Preview. If this version looks solid on the Beta Preview overnight and into tomorrow, then tomorrow (Friday) we will deploy this version to the Early Adopter regions.

What Has Changed In This Version?

Changes in this build include (SVC items were submitted on the public jira issue tracker / DEV items are internally discovered issues / there are a few in this list that were fixed without jira tracking #’s…).
SVC-1923: Mass calculations on small path-cut, hollowed and dimpled prims adjusted to be much closer to the masses calculated on the current release simulator. Masses on these small complex objects may not be exactly the same, since we now account for scale when calculating minimum size prims, and a few other variables, but it will be much closer)
SVC-1856: Unassisted flight at high altitudes is now possible with reduced fall rates. The fall rate is not quite as low as the current release simulator, but is now much closer.
DEV-12601: Floating object no longer falls (this was a secondary effect of issues like
SVC-1923 – mass calcuations not correct for twisted shapes)
DEV-12637: Kart no longer sometimes spins on it’s top after crossing region boundary
SVC-1792: llSetBouyancy = 1.0 now handled correctly (another fix for avatars not holding altitude correctly with a HUD attachment)
SVC-1520: Reduced the amount of “float” between avatar feet and floor
DEV-12320: llGetBoundingBox now includes the object the avatar is sitting on
SVC-1473: Hollowed and path-cut prims now align better when using copy selected
DEV-12585: Relaxed 256m megaprim size limitation to 64km based on continuing discussions and analysis. See the section below for details.
DEV-12585 Details: Megaprims discussion # who knows by now? attempt at a joke 🙂
In office hours discussions it had seemed that no one was using megaprims over 256m in general ways, but Andrew had the good idea to scan the grid just to check… What we found surprised us. There are over 80 regions using larger than 256m megaprims, in almost all cases in order to generate an artificial horizon – either sky or water.
Given the number of these completely legitimate builds that would be affected, and the ability to implement megaprim clamping code essentially on a moment’s notice if it seems appropriate, we reached a new and somewhat different conclusion. In addition, I will be doing some performance and capacity work to determine specific overhead for this amongst other cases so that we understand the real impact of these on region design.
We have now decided that the best path will be to not restrict megaprim size to 256m as we had previously discussed at length (for months), but to only limit them to 64k meters, and have an upcoming project create better tools for managing large prims, both in terms of tracking them and providing methods to prevent mis-use that create problems for residents in overlapped parcels (where a megaprim overhangs their property, for instance).

Best regards,

Sidewinder Linden
Program Manager

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74 Responses to Havok™4 Beta Preview Update with 8 fixes (2008-03-27) – RC3 of the new Second Life Simulator

  1. Sofia Westwick says:

    Woot!

    you got the SVC-1520 floating avatar in the Fix! Thanks Andrew! and whoever else worked on that!

  2. Shaun Banshee says:

    I can never seem to log into H4 servers 😦

  3. Chaos says:

    We really need to increase the default 10m size prim limit, this will not only reduce lag but make for better builds. using 1680 10m prims to cover a sim in just flooring is not really ideal for lag/combat or physics lag (due to moving from one surface to another)

  4. Shaun Banshee says:

    @ 3 Chaos

    If you really must, find an open-sourced mega prim, although personally I don’t think people should use them

  5. Sean Heying says:

    using an infinite or 64kM megaprim to replace the island ocean with sand is a trick I have used in a few regions myself. I am pleased that they will stay, it really helps the feel of the build being able to do this.

    Thanks!

  6. Malifico Bade says:

    26 Sidewinder Linden Says:
    March 26th, 2008 at 6:48 PM
    @24 Malificio: Could you write up the specifics (maybe with a landmark so we can find the object(s) ) and send it to me inworld so we can take a look? Thanks, Sidewinder

    I can’t do that because im on TG and can’t view you in-world O:
    But the sim is Civitas, i normally cleanup the physical prims.. but it’s still bothersome =X

  7. Brandon Shinobu says:

    Hmm, Sidewinder, in looking into the tools to help prevent misuse, you may want to consider that some people (including myself) use megaprims which normally would overhang on a parcel, but instead we cut them down in varous ways usually using prim torture so that they are much smaller. Will the tools take this into account? Also in cases where there is an agreement between two parcel owners that it’s “ok” for the prim to overhang a bit. It might be good to instead allow the option to return a large prim overhanging one’s property (while not actually on it counting against one’s prim limit), instead of forcing prims to be within parcel boundaries. This allows for more flexibility, and I would think make the transition much smoother, since I’m certain more people than myself have prims that may creep over the parcel’s edge. In my case I acquired my neighbors’ permission to do so.

  8. Stephen Zenith says:

    I agree with Chaos – if we’re going to sanction the use of prims larger than 10x10x10m, we should by allowed to create arbitrary sizes and shapes bigger than that, rather than being restricted to the few currently available.

  9. Danball Tureaud says:

    Ack! Someone forgot to close a bold tag!

  10. Ceera Murakami says:

    No, no no… Relaxing the megaprim limit to 64K Meters is a critical mistake. What possible legitimate use can there be for a single prim that streaches as long as 250 SIMS??? (64 K Meters is 250 times 256 Meters)

    Even a single 100 x 100 M megaprim can blot out a quarter of the mini-map, making it virtually worthless for every resident in the area. So WHY would you permit a prim that could wipe out the ENTIRE mini-map in 250 sims??? Or in 62,500 sims, if it was 64 K M on a side???

    There is absoloutely NO valid reason that I can imagine for a megaprim that is more than 256 M x 256M in size. Anything larger crosses sim boundries and is absolutely CERTAIN to screw up other sims or at the very least to overlap other people’s parcels. A person might make use of a 750 M diameter sphere as an artificial skydome, but that would extend into all 8 sims surrounding the one it was in.

    PLEASE reconsider that choice.

  11. Argent Stonecutter says:

    I think there’s probably a lot of support inside LL for larger prims (correct me if I’m wrong, Sidewinder), but anything beyond cleaning up the existing megaprim situation is going to have to wait until after Havok 4 is deployed. That should be next week, according to other blog entries, so it should be OK to hold off on discussion until mid-April. 🙂

  12. Argent Stonecutter says:

    Ceera@10: this is for private islands, where they want to give a whole region a “skybox”.

  13. Ceera Murakami says:

    @Sean in post #5. Tell me, did you personally purchase and pay for all 62,500 of the sims that your 64KM megaprim plane overlaps? What do the neighboring sims see? I somehow doubt that your megaprim fails to render in all those neighboring sims. I’d certainly like to visit a sim where you have done this, so I can see for myself what the impact is.

  14. les says:

    Whao! 64km. That’s one big #*#$ prim! Will prims over 256m be forced phantom?

    Thanks for being so in tune guys.

    Good luck bringing it home! 🙂

  15. Aminom Marvin says:

    The support for megaprims among builders is HUGE. Some things simply cannot be created by any other way: for example with very novel sculpt use.

    Now that you are fixing megaprims with Havoc4 (and getting them to work even better!) it would be a great time to allow us users to create megaprims. There is simply no reason not to do so. Eliminate the server-side checks and instead have a client-side check that can be disabled via the “advanced” or “client” menus. It would be similar to “disable camera constraints” except be “disable prim size constraints 🙂 That should prevent accidental misuse by newcomers. If not, you could have megaprims be set via script to make it available but not _too_ available

  16. Ceera Murakami says:

    Argent @12: So, you’re saying that if I tossed up a 64 KM x 64 KM megaprim on a private sim, that the other private sims that are only two or three sims away on the grid see nothing at all? Or do the sims that use such huge prims have to take themselves entirely off the map to prevent their overlaps from appearing in their neighbor’s areas?

    I’ve seen what a 100 x 100 megaprim does to the mini-map in a sim. It isn’t pretty. I can’t imagine what it would be like if someone several islands away dropped one of those monsters in my vacinity.

  17. Aminom Marvin says:

    Ceera Murakami (post 13): he isn’t talking about using it on mainland. He is talking about using it for a private island one entirely owns, to make sand in the surrounding void water regions.

  18. Aminom Marvin says:

    Ceera: also yes, if there is one sim, then a gap, then another sim, then EVERYTHING on one sim is invisible to the other. This includes megaprims, but also if you set render distance to 512 meters and try to look at the island, you will see nothing.

  19. Mina Dawn says:

    Where can we find Linden Labs’ policy on Megaprims? As in, who can use them, where they can be used, and what sizes?

  20. Chilko Tardis says:

    Posted to:
    http://teenslblog.com/2008/03/restrictions-on-megaprims-to-be-relaxed-with-havok4
    Good move! An increase of the normal prim size would rule!

  21. Drako Nagorski says:

    I know this isnt relative, but i got a couple suggestions for future projects:
    1) NO MORE SCULPTIES! Just have a new asset that imports 3d-max and other similar filetypes. have them show up in SL exactly how they do in the program they were made in. more faces = more faces here.

    2)climbing! its quite annoying to have to fly up surfaces, so have a climbing animation where the avatar attaches to an object and can walk around on it (angle 45 degrees) kinda like linking the avi to the object. use the E key to climb up a surface or attach to it (or a new key somewhere… you have 26 to use :P)
    (think about it, being able to walk around on a space ship thats barrel rolling :P)

  22. Darien Caldwell says:

    Can anyone provide a SURL to a region using a 64k megaprim? I really have a hard time understanding the usage.

  23. Ceera Murakami says:

    Aminom@18: Well… OK… I’ve developed a few “stands by itself” sims, as well as plenty where the private sims owned by one person touched edge to edge with sims owned by someone else. I had assumed that in those “one island on its own” sims, the other nearby sims had elected not to be seen by their neighbors. I suppose that if a gap of one or more sims, or a corner to corner contact, is sufficent in itself to render the sims invisible and intangible from each other, it may be more tolerable than I had thought.

    But as I said, there’s plenty of sims that are private sims, but which are NOT seperated by gaps like that, and are not all owned by the same parcel owner. I would hope that in any instance where the entire contiguous block of touching sims is not owned by the owner of the outsized prim, these would still be banned, just like they should be on the Mainland.

  24. Sean Heying says:

    @ Ceera in 13 and others….

    When you use a 64kM megaprim the action on the minimap and on surrounding SIMs is different to what you think.

    First. when you are a private island and have no connecting islands there is no overlap into other SIMs, the grid map in terms of islands is not contiguous, what you rez on one island will not be seen in others… there is INFINATE space between islands.

    I have an infinate megaprim out now, please look at your minimap and see if you can see it. Look outside your house for it. It is isolated to the SIM I put it in.

    In terms of minimap, when you have a prim that large you hollow out the centre to place it over the island, it dissapears off the minimap, totally invisible.

  25. Helion Dragonash says:

    I would like to see mega prims have th ability to be hollowed out and not still me physcal, with a 10m prim you can hollow them out and walk through them, you cant do this with mega prims and it would greatly assist in building on sims if that were possible.

  26. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @3 Chaos: Large flooring is one of the uses of existing megaprims and part of the reason that we are continuing to allow them to exist. /Sidewinder

  27. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @6 Malifico: Thanks – I’m TG cleared and will take a look as soon as possible. /Sidewinder

  28. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @7 Brandon: None of the work to define such tools has started, other than discussions over time. If you have a proposal, please feel free to send me a notecard and I’ll forward it. This is not something that has any timeline or priority set, but something that was talked about as part of the rationale for this position… /Sidewinder

  29. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @10 Ceera: There is no current upper limit that I am aware of on megaprim size. There are cases where extremely large prims are used for artificial horizons. As I said in the blog post, the tools to implement a hard cut to a lower size are already built and may be implemented in one deploy cycle, so we are going to watch to see how this goes and make some determination later on. /Sidewinder

  30. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @14 Les: We have decided to not implement a “phantom over this size” algorithm at this time. What we have done is to implement *some* cap on size that we believe will not interfere with existing builds as a starting point, with the hooks in place to something more substantial going forward. /Sidewinder

  31. Urantia Jewell says:

    @25 Helion,

    Havok4 has made it possible to hollow a non-phantom megaprim and walk/fly through it. I’ve tested this and it works but only in Havok4 enabled regions.

  32. Sean Heying says:

    @ 25 Helion

    Hollowed out megaprims in Havok4 work, you can set them to non-phantom and stand inside them.

    Two prim houses are now possible.

  33. Sidewinder Linden says:

    To All: Megaprim “policy”?

    This is somewhat of a misnomer to me. Here are the established points you might want to consider:

    1) What people do and build in Second Life is governed by the Terms Of Service. These are posted on the web site. Violations of the TOS may be reported using the abuse reporting tools in the viewer. If someone builds a structure that is believed to violate the terms of service (never mind whether it is built with one megaprim or a large linked set of small prims), it can be reported, and if it is found to be in violation of the TOS, the governance team will address the issue as they see appropriate.

    I do not believe that there is a need for a megaprim policy past this statement, as it encapsulates both the freedom to be creative in Second Life and the limits described in the TOS that govern acceptable behavior.

    2) This is a stabliity project, and not a features project. “Repeat after me” 🙂 There will be no new megaprim manipulation or editing tools delivered as part of the Havok4 update project.

    3) Any new features in this area would need to be part of some future initiative. Any such enhancements have not be discussed, designed and are not on the current roadmap.

    4) These statements do not say that we will do something in this area. They do not say that we won’t do something in this area. These statements clarify that the future on this is unknown, and that any build tool capability enhancements are explicitly not part of this project.

    I hope that this helps to clarify how the megaprim question fits into the larger picture of Second Life.

    Regards,

    Sidewinder

  34. Tiny Mind says:

    Wow! So you are saying that finally I will not slowly ‘sink’ down to ground-level while floating in an H4 Sim even while wearing umpteen “Flying Assistant” objects like before? Well, there’s a first.

    TM… Mark of Excellence.

  35. Hal says:

    So we have to suffer ridiculously large megaprims so that a few builds don’t have to remove one large prim and replace it with 4, 8 or maybe 16 smaller ones? The poor things, what a hardship that would be for them…

    We certainly need megaprims to stay, but 64km ones, that’s crazy!

  36. Andrew Fenn says:

    I think you’re missing the bigger issue here in that there are insufficient tools to control landscape and atmosphere in a region.

    If content creators had the right tools we wouldn’t need big prims for skyboxes. Prims shouldn’t be used for skyboxes or water. There is obviously a problem here that’s not getting solved.

    This is a virtual world but why are you restricting it to real life conditions? You could get rid of a whole lot of space issues by adding portals and allowing people to have their own instances inside one. In other words, a world within a box.

  37. you thoughts please... says:

    A feature that would be of great use would be to enable a “ghost function” to prims. As many are aware, currently when a moving prim is focussed on by the client, the camera follows it, another example would be where vendor boxes, tip jars etc are visible but not accesable due to the presence of a prim in front(regardless of its alpha, phantom state, touch state etc) Some prims such as club lighting beams cause massive confusion to camera views, having a simple check box in edit(LSL activation in time….) would be a massive upgrade and I expect relatively simple to implement.

    10x10x10m is also like building with famous brand interlocking plastic toy blocks, scale and perspective in SL are underestimated factors(take the awesome greenies for example), allow prims over 10m to be dropped and edited and prepare to be amazed. Many of the larger builds that employ the megaprims are rather crude due to the limits on editing these objects and the small collection of primitive megaprim shapes/sizes to choose from(eg 20x20x60m cylinder)

    Cheers.

  38. IAm Zabelin says:

    Although I find megaprims extremely useful due to their efficiency, personally I question using an ‘infinite’ size megaprim … no matter how the grid (currently) resolves it I consider that irresponsible.

  39. Wow, this is an unexpected turn of events, and I applaud the decision, even knowing perfectly well how megaprims are so often used by griefers on the mainland.

    Still, griefing is a social issue that should be dealt with social mechanisms, not technical tools. Once the mainland gets outsourced to some organisation that can take good care of it, the griefing problem is solved 😉

  40. Whisper says:

    Not all builders support megaprims. Those who do are just more whiney and vocal than the majority.

  41. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @35 Hal: There was no limit before… Now there is one… It can be adjusted easily… /Sidewinder

  42. Darek Deluca says:

    Thank you for allowing large mega prims. I use many, including the 64k for horizon effects. (No, i don’t affect other sims, no other sims beside me).

    However!, You have to consider 1 thing. Come up with a way to Edit/Delete them if you make them hollow, lol, i had to get Linden help when i made a 1024x1024x100 hollow. You can’t reach it anymore! (I put a Listen/die script in it the next time.)

    And it would be nice to be able to go above 10m or at least make some more sizes for mega prims. Alot of us would LOVE 20m & 30 meter spheres!!

  43. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @42 Darek: Interesting suggestions as future possibilities… No new features for manipulating or creating megaprims will ship as part of this project 🙂 /Sidewinder

  44. ollj says:

    I like how scripted glow now works on havok4 servers using Second Life 1.19.1 (3):

    //scripted glow test (sin-curve flickering);
    float tevent =0.2;
    float t;
    default{on_rez(integer sp){llResetScript();
    }state_entry(){
    llSetTimerEvent(tevent);
    }
    timer(){//llOwnerSay(“Timer debug”);
    t+=0.1;
    if (t>PI){t=0.;}
    llSetPrimitiveParams([25,ALL_SIDES,llSin(t)/2]);
    //25 may soon be the constant: PRIM_GLOW
    //”25″ does NOT work on Main Grid servers that do not have the havoc4 beta version on it and returns an error message “unknown parameter”.
    //llSetPrimitiveParams([25,ALL_SIDES,llSin(t)]); // factor /2 is just because glow>0.5 is too bright and has too little contrast to actually notide a sin curve.
    }
    }

  45. Ryu Darragh says:

    That’s what the Jira “New Feature Request” is for, folks 🙂

    So, go forth and Jira “New Feature Request: Edit Limits to be extended to 256.000m (256) and 4096.000m (4096) ” !

    I, for one, would not be unhappy to see the size of new “large” prims capped at 256m.

  46. Ryu Darragh says:

    Grr.. silly comments parser.. it deleted my brackets 😛

    “New Feature Request: Edit Limits to be extended to 256.000m (256, size) and 4096.000m (4096, height) ” !

  47. Isablan Neva says:

    So, just for laughs…an actual Havok4 question:

    Sidewinder, is there a “loose” schedule for full deployment on the grid?

  48. badb0y dagger says:

    WOW are u kinding me!!! LLs are gonna have a maintenance work this coming Saturday, 29 March, 4:00 a.m. – 6:00 a.m. Pacific time DA DAY OF MY WEDDING!!! wow not only did yall mess up my friends list,my invtory, and my media player u r now gonna mess up my wedding wow
    THANK YOU VERY MUCH LL U GUYS R DA BEST

  49. Argent Stonecutter says:

    Tiny@34: if you sink while hovering in a Havok 4 sim using the latest version of my Flight Feather or Cyberflight, let me know.

  50. Sean Heying says:

    Yay, the sliding smaller avatar issue is finally tested as 100% nailed as far as I am concerned.

    The molasses problem still is unreproducible, but given Sidewinders previously asked question about if I were in his shoes, and knowing the way people love to complain, would I deploy… I would. It’s rare as in twice in an 10 hour day and it’s short lived.

    I am glad the swimmer is still being looked at, this is pretty important to us Kids.

    The end of blitz orbits attacks is getting closer day by day \o/

    @ Argent, where can we pick up flight feathers? I have been handing out an old one for a long time to newbs and would love to update the one I give em.

    @ badb0y, it’s only phone support and I am sure that your wedding day will be perfect. May you find every happiness.

  51. Kraelen Redgrave says:

    I currently have a large round house. The round part consists of an elevated floor and a roof with windows around most of the sides. I had to use 8 tapered cubes for the roof, 7 for the floor, and 11 cubes for the windows, for a grand total of 26 prims. If I could have used 20*20*20M prims I could have cut that down to 5 prims.

    For legitimate rational builds surely larger prims would be beneficial, and in many cases increase performance.

    Perhaps allowing everyone to build upto 32*32*32 prims would be a nice starting point, until you work out the finer details of exactly what everyone needs.

  52. Kraelen Redgrave says:

    @50

    Sorry, correction: that should have been 16 for the roof and 15 for the floor, 11 for the windows, giving a total of 42 prims…

    It’s 2:12 AM here… I’m tired 😛

  53. Vincent Nacon says:

    64km? O_o 512m is all I’d ask for but geez…. I mean sweet! Now I’m having mad mad ideas with the new scale limit.

  54. @21 Drako
    I’ve discussed the reason behind sculpties with Qarl, and he said he would have liked to have put in a real model format, but they can’t be streamed. The sculpted prim technique is something he had come across in previous work, so he knew how to do it for SL, and the framework to stream sculpted prim maps is in place already (streaming textures). There are reportedly a few groups working on a streaming model format, but nothing is concrete at the moment. I myself know of a theoretical way to transmit an OBJ format model across the network, but it’s possible that it’d still be unfeasibly large and take an unreasonable amount of time. A single model with 1024 verts can be rather large, much larger than a simple 32×32 pixel texture, when you take into account each face is represented by 3 sets of vertices (9 numbers in total), there’s normals for each vertex, UV coordinates, etc.

    As for the theoretical 64k prim limit, all I can say is woah. I’d have to agree with the other folks decrying this in that it’s too much freedom. I would accept that as a viable size if Andrew’s previous suggestion on steadfast build restrictions onto parcels you don’t own were put into place. I believe he suggested that if you tried to build a prim bigger than the parcel, Havok4 could treat the edges of the parcel as a solid wall and prevent the prim from passing it. Likewise if you put down an object that extended onto another person’s property it would nudge it back onto yours. In this case, if someone tried putting down a 64k prim on the mainland in their 512m^2 parcel, Havok should say, “to hell with that” and return it.

  55. Whisper says:

    mmm not sure what has happened on the main grid in balance, but the airplane script i’ve been working on for 4 weeks has now started to do some strange things.

    Have you guys been playing with llSetVehicleFloatParam( VEHICLE_BUOYANCY, param ) ? My plane now flys up much more easily, in fact almost unstoppable.

  56. Argos Hawks says:

    THANK YOU! I’m thrilled that you stopped for a minute, logged in, and actually looked around to see how people were using something before dropping the axe on it. Everytime a megaprim debate pops up, people talk about replacing the sky with a giant sphere on private islands that doesn’t affect any other region. I’m also thrilled that Havok 4 is coming along so well and hope to see it gridwide soon. Along with giving us a rough idea of when we may see Havok 4 on the grid, can you give us an estimate on when we might see a Mono early adopter program? People are trying to plan how to manage their sims and estate expansion, and knowing some estimates for major milestones would be greatly appreciated.

  57. Whisper says:

    turned out to be an attachment i was wearing 🙂 whew!

  58. Whisper says:

    @53 sounds like a plan.

  59. Darling Brody says:

    Something very anoying about the current Havok4 Implementation of mega prims is that the size is not locked. So if you accedently alter it, the prim shrinks back to a 10×10. It was much better when the size parametors were locked to avoid accedently turning your region sized floor into a bath mat sized prim. – hay I am an IoW dragon, 10×10 is a bathmat for me 🙂

    Darling

  60. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @53 Feynt and others: I believe there is no limit on size in the current release simulator (might get corrected tomorrow but I’m pretty sure this is true…), so why all the fuss about “the limit is too large”. This is just a stop-gap to have some limit, where one did not exist before… It is easy to reduce an upper bound if it turns out in practice to be too large. From what I understand, “huge mega” griefing is not a large problem source in the current version, so why would it magically get worse with the new simulator. If it does turn out to be an issue, it’s really easy to clamp later – although remember – the current thinking is that with reasonable administrative controls this limit becomes essentially unneeded. /Sidewinder

  61. Kelly Linden says:

    To add some clarity to the XL Mega Prim talk:
    * No tools are being added to create new mega prims
    * It is still not possible to make new mega prims
    * The ability to create or manipulate mega prims is unchanged between havok1 and havok4
    * The ability to create or manipulate mega prims is unchanged between havok4-this-update and havok4-all-previous-updates

    ALL that changed is:
    Prior havok4 versions would actively clamp existing megaprims that were larger than 256m in any dimension to 256m. XL Mega Prims that are already in Second Life would suddenly shrink and permanently break. We could not easily fix them later if we decided it was a bad idea.

    That last part is what gave us extra pause. We decided that it was better to leave things as they were in Second Life already, with havok1, then to permanently break some cool uses.

  62. Joe Moudeira says:

    I would really like (all) the huge prims to stay. There are alot of people that own island sims, who would not bother anyone ever with these prims. I’ve experimented alot with the largest ones, and really cool things can be done with them….one can create a land that looks endlessly big by using the largest size.
    Why restrict people from using them and creating nice content with this? At least on islands people should have freedom to use these

  63. PJ Gibbs says:

    “there are a few in this list that were fixed without jira tracking #’s…”

    You know, to follow ITIL best practices, and to make your own lives easier in the long run, you really should bring an end to that practice…

    Just a word of advice from a 3rd line support professional… =)

  64. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @61 PJ: You’ll notice there are actually none in that category… the caveat was there from a few that had been done this way a while back and I’ve been copying and pasting the text 😉 /Sidewinder

  65. Marlene Umarov says:

    Why with the new version instaled I have some things in rose?Will you install the same simulator on all SL?
    I don´t like this…And I don´t know what to do…

  66. Sascha says:

    WEll i have a strange problem here on my havok, rotating objects are just stopping to rotate after some time, since they aren’t made by me i have to take them back to inv and rez again. Guess it has to do something with energy??

  67. Belos Seiling says:

    I’ll be looking forward to editable megaprims, so that I – and many other residents – may be able to have nice buildings to a reduced number of prims. It is not easy to build a nice house floor or a wall with a megaprim 1 meter thick.
    With this possibility the surplus prim count can be used to enhance the surroundings of the buildings. More trees and flowers.

  68. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @63 Sascha: Could you please IM me inworld so that I can take a look at the objects involved? Thanks, Sidewinder

  69. Rob Escape says:

    Personally, I would welcome the complete anniliation of megaprims and bring forth unrestrained regular prims for advanced users (the advanced menu option disable prim restraints sounds brilliant) for future uses.

    and I use/abuse the hell outta Megaprims…

    if I was a Linden Deity, I would create an estate tool that could change the connecting fake waters into a different texture (forest, desert sand dunes, etc). and then problem solved with the bigarsed 64k prims making sand as far as the eye can see or whatnot…not everyone wants to live on beachfront property, some people would rather have those distant views be random generated mountains or something verses a ocean.

    Well, anyhow, lets hope that you Linden types contemplate living in a VR beyond everyone in Maui or Venice

  70. Aminom Marvin says:

    Sidewinder- thanks for the clarifications and info 🙂 However, in the process of being a stability fix, Havoc 4 has added a huge feature as a side-effect: megaprims now have accurate collision profiles. Just this small thing will be a huge boon to builders. As just one example, one can make unique, large terrain elements with a sculpt, set it phantom, then just use a couple of megaprims to give it a usably accurate collision shape.

    I thank the Havoc 4 team for adding this “feature,” and for providing an almost uncrashable physics platform (it took my friends and I weeks to finally find a way to crash the server using physics, and I’ve heard word that the exploit will be patched.)

  71. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @70 Aminom: Thanks! I suppose you could class it that way, but I’d posit that the old build with incorrect megaprim collision profiles was bugged, and so it’s a bug fix – but – hey – whichever way you want to look at it that works better now 🙂 Thanks again, Sidewinder

  72. Sylhouette Rojyo says:

    @Sidewinder:
    I think the limit on megaprim size is a good idea, in that they can be abused.

    Speaking as a mainland owner, what I’m more interested in is are the normal prim limitations enforced on the megaprims?

    That is if I make a 10m x 10m prim, and try to make it overlap a 4m x 4m parcel owned by someone else and set to no-build, the expected result would be that the prim wouldn’t overlap the other parcel.

    For example, if I make a skids 10m x 10m bulldozer, and try to bulldoze a 4m x 4m lot I don’t own, the bulldozer stops at the border. If I have a spy finder tool equiped and am surveying my property, and it tries to move into my neighbors parcel where i don’t have building permission, it stops.

    Realisticly, as long as that check is intact and works for the mega prims, the whole argument is just plain silly.

    I can build a 4000m+ wall right now, out of my surplus prims. As long as I can restrict any unwanted prims (including the mega prims) from overlapping my land, there’s no issue here.

    If I have building turned on, then I’m open to griefing, I’ll have robots nonstop teleporting to my hosue and dropping boxes of wholely inappropriate things with “for sale” marked on them, etc.

  73. Argent Stonecutter says:

    Syl@72: I have never turned my land “no build” or “no entry” except for a breif period when dealing with a known griefing attack. I only set my land for autoreturn reluctantly. And… I don’t have ‘robots nonstop teleporting to my house and dropping boxes of wholly inappropriate things with “for sale” marked on them’. Why do you think that would happen?

  74. Delerium Hannibal says:

    @37: This feature that you described was added a long time ago to jira.
    just do a jira search for VWR-185 and you will find it. Been wanting that one for years. I know that the havoc 4 upgrade currently isn’t about adding new features, but I almost think a little planning on some new features before it’s “too late” would be nice. Some things are simple to do during a restructure like this, but would be a bear to add in later after you are done with the restructure.

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