Havok™4 Early Adopter Region Update with 10 fixes (2008-03-26) – RC2 of the new Second Life Simulator

Quick Status
The Havok™4-based Second Life simulator v1.19.3.82980 has been deployed to the 652 Second Life Early Adopter regions. This version integrates some updates from the release-version simulator on Second Life, and another round of bug fixes.
What Has Changed In This Version?
Changes in this build include (SVC items were submitted on the public jira issue tracker / DEV items are internally discovered issues / there are a few in this list that were fixed without jira tracking #’s…).
DEV-11984: Large spheres no longer get stuck to other objects when dragged over them
DEV-12031: Re-introduced llSetForce() Havok1 simulator energy level reset bug (that we had fixed) to avoid breaking legacy content
DEV-12137: Worn scripted object now gets ground collision event when avatar lands
SVC-1261: Avatar slides no longer slowly down moderate slopes (this fix should handle most slopes, but on very steep slopes avatars may continue to slide in some cases)SVC-1281: Siggy Romulus Swimmer v1.1 now worksDEV-12231: Repeated calls to set_task_scale() with no changes to the scale value no longer create excessive simulator overhead

SVC-1701 “Non-fix”: Diving Board Deluxe by Siggy Romulus still launches diver too high. This is an example of a product that was carefully tweaked to take advantage of behavior that has changed subtly between Havok1 and Havok4… in a way that we could not readily emulate. This has only happened in a few cases that we know of, but does represent a class of issues that may require vendors to lightly rework products.

SVC-1721: Avatar now enters falling animation state after walking off edge of platform

DEV-12273: Kart now decelerates slowly when forward key is released

DEV-12287: Avatars now do not pop up when hit as readily

Best regards,

Sidewinder Linden
Program Manager

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45 Responses to Havok™4 Early Adopter Region Update with 10 fixes (2008-03-26) – RC2 of the new Second Life Simulator

  1. Grrrr – these update notices kill me! LOL

    I put in my ticket to join the Havok Early Adopter program for my Sim a *MONTH* ago! I see these notices and start biting my nails again wondering who’s dropping the ball. Concierge has never taken more than two-weeks for me before now. LOL

    Thanks for the update!

  2. Ok, I’m confused. Aren’t these the same fixes described in last week’s Havok4 patch?

    What I don’t see is any mention of the real changes. For instance, after today’s restart, one of my scripts crashed with an out of memory error. This isn’t Linden Lab’s fault of course, but I was pleasantly surprised by the new error message:

    [script:–emDash Main 2.50–]: Script run-time error
    [script:–emDash Main 2.50–]: Stack-Heap Collision

    Kudos for whomever snuck that patch in. It’s long overdue.

  3. Blake Sachs says:

    Don’t worry so much about breaking a bit of old content. There will be the usual whining, but I for one prefer more reliable physics and improved region stability. In cases where it’s due to technical limits, well that’s unfortunate, but I wouldn’t have any bad afterthoughts about breaking things that relied on known bugs or deprecated features, I’m surprised you’ve been so sensible regarding these things XD
    Still, it’s cool how this is marching forward.

  4. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @1 Ari: I’ll check – I know they’ve been swamped… /Sidewinder

  5. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @2 Cheshyr: These are the same fixes, but that last blog post refers to the deploy of this update to the Beta Preview. It was put there for extended testing before being rolled out to the Early Adopter regions on Second Life.

    If you will send me some specifics about the script that you are seeing a problem with I will be happy to have it looked at. A copy on a notecard in world, or IM me so I can drop by to take a look, is all it will take to get help.


  6. Zi Ree says:

    The sliding issue is fixed, thanks! 😀

    But the swimmer keeps me in a falling animation instead of swimming. I can demonstrate in world, if you need an example.

    Keep up the great work!


  7. Stephen Zenith says:

    Heh heh, my comment in an earlier blog post about Havok being a ™ got deleted, yet somebody obviously read it 🙂

  8. Prodigal Maeterlinck says:

    Don’t get too anxious to get involved, you might get burned.
    The physics become active on ALL prims, whether physics enabled or not, making it impossible to monitor and test if you have extensive construction. And they do NOT keep a permenant backup for your sim before putting it on beta software. So if they’re unable to respond to a rollback request due to lack of time or the support system going down, you’re screwed.

  9. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @8 Prodigal: The Early Adopter program is a beta program, and has been explained that way from the start. If you are interested in testing an entire region off of Second Life in a way that cannot affect your Second Life region I would be happy to place a copy of the Beta Preview grid.

    We do keep simstates of the regions, and can do a state rollback if something ends up problematic as a result of the update, and I have personally been involved in a few of these cases earlier in the process.

    With that all said, a beta is a beta, and yes there are risks. That is why this beta program has been run completely opt-in from the start.


  10. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @7 Stephen: Yes I did read it 😉 /Sidewinder

  11. Felony Fabre says:

    Like Ari, I put my request in some time ago. I understand that they are busy, but an acknowledgement of having received the ticket would have been nice. Sometimes it’s the little things that matter … 🙂

  12. Vittorio Beerbaum says:

    I’ve noticed something (or maybe i were dreaming…), and that’s pretty strange none noticed a so important news (so i assume again i were dreaming…).

    In one of the previous blog entries about the rolling restarted (normal regions), at the end of the comment: “Early adopters region with H4…. will be not affected…” there were a more extensive comment saying: “…because we are planning for another upgrade that will introduce havok4 to the whole grid” (it does mean, finally H4 will be deploied).
    Now that comment disappeared… changed mind? 😀 …or (yeah) i were really dreaming?

  13. Ron Crimson says:

    Maybe Havok4 is ready for a release version but there’s going to continue to be a Havok4 *beta* which will stay ahead of the curve, further fixing small remaining bugs and tweaking things? Besides, I guess that’ll eventually be the next stage where Havok4’s NEW features are starting to be exploited and put into use for SL.
    True, or am I right?

  14. Michi Lumin says:


    Any chance that mainland regions may be able to beta-test this at any point?

    We’ve been a Havok4 beta test region on the Beta grid for a LONG LONG time now, we have requested Early Adopter status if at all possible quite a while ago.

    We’re not a vehicle sim, we’re high traffic, have been around since 2003, and have been testing all sorts of things since 2003… Maybe it’d be possible finally to get this in Lusk?

    We could *really* do with the reduction of physics based crashes, for one.

    If not, (I really feel we’re a responsible enough region to do this!) – any ETA on rollout to main?

  15. Sidewinder, does this fix the scripted dingaling lag issue? 🙂

  16. Darien Caldwell says:

    @15, yes, it does, that is “DEV-12231: Repeated calls to set_task_scale() with no changes to the scale value no longer create excessive simulator overhead” 😉

  17. Gaius Goodliffe says:

    @12: Hah! Someone mentioned a comment to that effect at the last Havok4 office hours, and I couldn’t find it when I went to go look for it. The comment made at the office hours was that the blog comment had been possibly premature, so my guess is it was edited back out. So, no you weren’t dreaming. And it wasn’t so much a changed mind at LL as the fact that the release of Havok4 to the whole grid will go ahead barring unforeseen problems cropping up at this point, but the odds of an unforeseen problem cropping up at this point are, although low, still high enough to make comments like that one perilous. It may happen every bit as quickly as they’re hoping, in fact it probably will, but there’s enough chance that it won’t that they shouldn’t make any statements as definite as that one was.

  18. Kelly Linden says:

    @2 Cheshyr: I got really annoyed trying to figure out what script was crashing on me when I was trying to track down a havok bug. It is showing the object name too right? (your paste didn’t have it but I thought it was ‘object_name [script: script_name]’)

  19. Vincent Nacon says:

    Still waiting for that mass issue on small-complex-cut prims to be fixed.

  20. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @13 Ron: Once this version is integrated with release an is “the release simulator” it will be one and the same. There has been discussion of leading releases on the Beta Preview grid to check things there before deploy, but that is not finalized, and actually in some cases would not be the right thing to do (for instance a critical function fix or a security exploit resolution). This is being discussed internally in an on-going way. /Sidewinder

  21. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @14 Michi: Mainland regions will not be included in the beta process because there is no resident region owner, and thus cannot really be “opt in” in a meaningful way.


  22. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @18 Vincent: Which mass issue are you referring to? Is this a jira’d item? /Sidewinder

  23. Pingback: Havok 4 to be deployed grid-wide soon? at Daikon Forge

  24. You guys should really try and fix a glitch i’ve been getting on my sim i manage, objects that are physical are not being picked up by autoreturn.

  25. Michi Lumin says:

    Sidewinder — Even if we (really) own all but 196m2 that’s owned by an abandoned lifer account that hasn’t logged on since 2004 and has nothing on it?

    (That really is the case with Perry in our situation.)

  26. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @24 Malificio: Could you write up the specifics (maybe with a landmark so we can find the object(s) ) and send it to me inworld so we can take a look? Thanks, Sidewinder

  27. Michi Lumin says:

    I take that back… 144m2, not 196m2.

  28. badb0y dagger says:

    Wats been up with SL this game is soo messed up any more everything in my invtory is scwerd i got stuff in it i never seen b4 and keep losen object that i put down on my land, my friends list is messed up it keep sayn that some people are still loadn and it wont let me give them modify right and thay cant give it to me, my media player for veidos is not workn lik omg lol , wat are doing LL yall slackn on fixn da game .

  29. Sean Heying says:

    Sidewinder, in the 1.19.2 Server Release I saw the message “Our current plan is to have another server deploy next week to roll out version 1.19.3. Server 1.19.3 will bring Havok4 to all of Second Life” at the bottom. That was subsequently removed fromt he post after about 3 people had pinged back.

    Is Havok4 slated for release in server 1.19.3 next week? There is still quite a bit of testing to do on the RC2 in terms of sliding and I have seen the swimmer does not yet work and there is still that weird sleeping state the sim goes into where you find it very slow to walk (not lag, but like walking through molasses)

    Can you please refute or confirm this release date.

  30. Sascha says:

    Wasn’t the (waiting) bug for the land group supposed to be fixed already (same as VWR-882)?

  31. belinda1 aeon says:

    Can a help you…
    A I’m my Avatar is abb may appear frozzen..A I’m can not the Game..
    Thanks for the Help
    Belinda Baaden….

  32. Elvis Orbit says:

    New Havok™4 Update on my regions working nicely. Great work!

  33. glow Raymaker says:

    Its amazing how well 18.5(3) {Havoc 2} runs despite all the improvements that are supposed to have been introduced since then with havoc 4.
    Including the later releases ive tried and run screaming from since then!
    Moral of the story is that: less havoc is less stressfull!

  34. Vincent Nacon says:

    @Sidewinder Linden:

    Well it wasn’t JIRAed yet (doing that now) but Les White and I had been mentioning it at your Havok 4 meeting a few times. Les gave you a folder of cutted prims with strange mass issue.

    Here’s the full report. https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-1923

  35. Vincent Nacon says:

    @33Glow Raymaker:

    We’re on Havok 1…. there’s no Havok 2 on Second Life.

  36. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @29 Sean:

    The reports I have gotten suggest that the sliding problems have been resolved.

    I received a separate write-up yesterday with step by step instructions for how to reproduce swimmer problem behavior that we have not seen and we will look at that.

    I have no idea what behavior you are reporting with regards to simulator sleeping state that is slow like molasses but not lag would be.

    Please contact me in-world to discuss the simulator issue you have described. This is the first I have heard you comment on such a problem, and it does not sound like we will get to the bottom of the simulator issue you have described in this format. (This could readily be caused by some other parts of the system, if I’m guessing correctly about what you are seeing, but we need to talk in some detail and perhaps do some tests to fully understand the issue.)



  37. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @30 Sascha: VWR bugs are related to the viewer, and not the simulator (server) portions of the system. This blog post is about a simulator update for a beta early adopter program. /Sidewinder

  38. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @34 Vincent: Would have been nice to see this jira a while ago 😉 We’ll look at this and see what is possible. Thanks, Sidewinder

  39. Sidewinder – I’ve seen that walking-in-molasses behavior on a few havoc4 sims, including my own. The physics FPS and time dilation take a sudden nosedive for no appearant reason, then recover after a while, sometimes as quick as 5 or 10 seconds, other times up to 30 or 60 seconds. I’ve experienced it so frequently, that’s how I know I’m in a Havoc4 sim 😉 I don’t really know how to explain it in a JIRA as there does not seem to be any cause, it’s just an effect that happens frequently but seemingly randomly. (I keep my stats bar open so I can see when the sim FPS / time dilation nosedive, even if I’m standing or sitting still.)

  40. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @39 Atashi: As I asked Sean, please contact me in-world. Posting entries here like this will not provide enough information to actually figure out next steps. I have seen this behavior on *all* simulator versions, not just on Havok4-based simulators, so I am not yet personally clear as to the cause, and would like to figure out if it is actually in the simulator or perhaps elsewhere in the system, or due to some other cause such as a networking issue at the data center.

    Thanks in advance,


  41. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @34 Vincent: Guess what? Turns out that class of issue represented by SVC-1923 is believed to be solved with a fix we completed last night, that will be included in the next update – coming soon.


  42. Thank you Sidewinder (and Andrew) – I have the office hours in my scheduler and will try and be there this evening. I’m also devoting some time to closely watching the issue to see if I can spot any causes or coincidences with the slowdowns. Probably a no-brainer, but when I disable physics, there aren’t any problems at all 🙂 of course that sort of defeats the purpose. With collisions disabled, the slowdowns seem way less frequent, but they do occur.

  43. Simon Linden says:

    @34 Vincent … that bug just got fixed. Masses with Havok4 won’t always be exactly the same as in Havok1, but that was definitely a bug and now they should be pretty close.

  44. Sean Heying says:

    I will contact you in world Sidewinder about the molasses problem, I am still trying to find a reproducible way to make it happen. As Atashi says it clears up before a minute passes.

    (Makes mental note to look in region debug next time to look for any collisions)

  45. Sidewinder Linden says:

    To all.. see new post about another version update on the beta preview 😉


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