Mono update 6 now running on BETA grid

The Mono regions on the beta grid are now running on shiny new simulators. This update includes fixes for the following:

  • SVC-1414 llBase64ToString does not work properly
  • SVC-1397 Unicode character difference between LSL2 and Mono
  • SVC-1867 Unable to upload changes made to scripts in inventory
  • SVC-1323 llPlaySound / llTriggerSound fail
  • SVC-1827 if (key) always returns false
  • SVC-1857 llDumpList2String corrupts key values
  • SVC-1451 Chopper Hoverboard doesn’t work in Mono
  • SVC-1707 Keys cause invalid IL exceptions
  • SVC-1825 Control event triggers runtime error

Thanks to all of you who have been going to the beta grid, testing your scripts under Mono, and giving us the feedback we need to get Mono ready for prime time. As usual, we will continue to hold office hours on the beta grid, right in the middle of Sandbox Goguen MONO.  Babbage’s office hour is on Wednesdays, 8 am PDT, and Periapse’s is on Fridays at 3pm PDT. For more info about Mono or how to try out the Mono beta, see the wiki page.

This entry was posted in Bugs & Fixes, Preview Grid, Scripting. Bookmark the permalink.

54 Responses to Mono update 6 now running on BETA grid

  1. Blinders Off says:

    Question: I haven’t had a chance to play with MONO at all. Will it totally replace the LsL system and become the LsL system… or are there two kinds of script systems now… or…?

    @ 1 Doug: These blogs are limited to 150 posts. Wasting them on drivel is irresponsible. Please drink your morning coffee before posting. 😉

  2. Brenda Maculate says:

    @2: I think there’s an FAQ that addresses that. If I remember correctly, Mono will not be replacing LSL, but affects the underlying language that the Sim is running.

    (I’ll confess that my understanding on this is a bit sketchy, but this was what I got out of it when I read the FAQ a month or so ago.)

  3. @1 DOUG……i see your point, a worthy observation, if only more of the blog had such structure and coherance, many would be wise to take note…

    @2 Blinders Off……you really should make more of an effort to post something substantial, DOUG’s entry for example sets a very high standard. Something to ponder upon would you say not?

  4. Argent Stonecutter says:

    @2: The existing LSL interpreter will not be replaced by MONO in the forseeable future.

  5. Sean Marsi says:

    Residents of TSL would enjoy testing this feature as well, sadly, we can’t because we’re currently being ignored.

  6. Pingback: Mono Update 6 Now Available For Testing at Daikon Forge

  7. Woot! At least 4 of those issues were blocking further testing of Combat: Samurai Island scripts on Mono, so I’m very pleased to see progress on them!

  8. TyrisFlare nielsen says:

    lol
    smiles hope linden lab has a happy Easter and good Friday:)

  9. Aya P says:

    am i the only one that cant log in…..sighs BAD friday

  10. Jephry Alter says:

    I cannot login under my normal login. Why is this? I remember trying about a month ago and same thing I just gave up. Is there a particular reason why this is?

    JA

  11. Cappy Frantisek says:

    Nope, I can’t log in either! Oh well, thank god for college basketball!

  12. Vivienne says:

    Honestly, who needs MONO, the great it is, while LL cannot keep the grid running in an acceptable way? It is getting worse each weekend. Teleports fail with a resulting crash, Textures do not load, Items do not get deliveredby vendors and, and, and…. MONO is progress, of course, but building something like this on such a quicksand foundation does not help anyone.

  13. Ahab Schmo says:

    Mono, like Havok and Windlight, is a change to the foundations. Once its fully deployed it will make a huge difference.

  14. Vivienne says:

    Windlight is only some useless eye candy which unnecessarily raises the hardware demands beyond any acceptable limit, not to speak of the incomatibility with half of the existing graphic cards and PC systems. And it does not have ANY influence on basic operations.

    Havok and Mono are progress, of course, but they won´t influence BASIC functionality and network/database operations. It makes no sense to throw sand into the eyes of the users.

  15. Aya Pelous says:

    Upgrading someones hardware on their pc is a good thing. I am using windlight and I like seeing more realistic things on second life. Your hardware on your pc is one reason why SOME people cannot run second life because they insist to use old an old OS, Ram that has less than a memory of a turtle and a Graphics card that probably was produced 10 years ago. Im using a 4 year old Dell that I made Upgrades myself on and it runs just as well as my new HP that i bought 2 months ago. The upgrades to a new graphics card is not that expensive , and certainly anyone can buy a gig of ram for 30 dollars, and get a registry cleaner that has the ability to get rid of errors that slow up your system and SL experience.

    I never went to an IT school, a 22 year old female, all you have to do is research and ask your local pc store to help with any questions. They are more than willing to help.

  16. Liny Odell says:

    @6 I agree with you on that. LL has ignored the TG for WAY to long. If I recall correctly, I stopped being able to log into the beta grid when they expanded the amount of sims for it, including adding some TSL sims (like the TSL weapons sandbox). Ever sence then, I have been, and the rest of TSL, locked out of the beta grid.

    -Liny

  17. CC says:

    @ 16 i have a VERY up to date PC running 3 gigs of ram far more than the required graphic card requirements and extreme speed ISP uh….. can you explain why i cannot run half the new clients and i lag and i crash and i lose items and all lol its not the USERS hardware its the program itself that is bugged beyond belief with huge memory leaks all over the place that no one can seem to fix

  18. Vivienne says:

    “…all you have to do is research and ask your local pc store”

    O yes, i am sure they will. Nevertheless this windlight shaders simply do not run on half of the most up-to-date graphic cards.

    And I doubt that the majority of SL users who already pay premium fees and land tiers to the lab for buggy client software, steady grid problems and some fun (of course) accept the thought of additionally upgrading their systems each other twelve months for being able to enjoy artificial skies and some nice water reflections or whatever.

  19. Winter Ventura says:

    I recently got into a discussion with a friend about this, and it turns out NEITHER of us knows the answer.. and there seems to be more rumour than fact circulating about what Mono will mean.

    When the switchover to Mono is complete.. will we be able to write scripts in other languages OTHER than LSL? I mean, are we going to be able to write Perl or .Net or Javascript applications for SL? or are we going to basically be writing standard LSL scripts that are just “encoded and operated behind the scenes by a better system?”

    What will “Mono” mean to developers of content? More tools? or the same old undocumented LSL programming language but faster?

  20. Aya Pelous says:

    I NEVER said the main grid did not have problems. But I do know having the required hardware to run second life makes it easier to have a second life.

    If you like using the regular grid then by all means use it, yay for you, its the fact that you say that windlight is useless eye candy is ridiculous. I have used other MMO’s, including the Sims 2 (with all expansion packs) that have a lot of bugs/security issues, service outages (not including sims 2) that they catch and that need updates on, and needed required immediate download to fix. Not everything is perfect and well if you love looking at lovely skies using windlight….more props to you. I guess this eye candy you refer to just brings out the artistic side in me. *shrugs*

    But if you are having problem with lag ….Talk to many sim owners that LOVE to use thousands of scripts that lag you to crash and also overcrowded areas and 28347398457345 objects on the land that seem to make it impossible to move around even on the most elite computer. Just give it a break…and enjoy what you have in second life, and hey if you hate it that much then you can just close it out and surf the web :-p

  21. Vivienne says:

    See, if scripts lag it is NOT the problem of the ones who use them. It is the problem of LL, who made an environment which enables and encourages ppl to use these scripts.

    And THIS is what they charge for. Either they change the specifications OR they make this lag vanish. Hopefully MONO will fix a few problems.

    But…I really am fed up with the arguments of the LL apologists. There is NO possible excuse for company which charges users for a service which does not even match open source service standards. Because i really love the game and support LL in every way they desrve to be supported , i CAN live with this, but i must admit that i do NOT like it.

  22. Argent Stonecutter says:

    @20: The mono switchover will not allow you to write scripts in languages other than LSL. It will simply give you the option of having your LSL compiled on the server to CIL instead of on your computer to LSO and uploaded to the server.

    In fact it would be easier to code in other languages than LSL by modifying the source to indra.l and indra.y to compile your language of choise to LSO.

  23. Tim Gagliano says:

    Ummmm I do not proclaim to be a Linden grid troubleshooter… however… anyone else notice that this blog is at Friday, March 21st, 2008 at 9:25 AM…. and we have not been able to do any transactions since 12pm? I mean where is the QA here upon implementation of new bells and whistles when weekends are when the majority of the SL residency makes it’s money…. why not move your implementation to sunday nights or something like that… when the population is low.. that way you have a few days to make the necessary face saving changes?

  24. Tim Gagliano says:

    Ok maybe I should read the damn blog before posting… Yes I am an idiot.. oh well 🙂

  25. Aya Pelous says:

    LL apologists? You are the one that puts money in a game. As do I, it is just as your first life, sometimes things happen and you drop and lose a dollar, a ten dollar bill, a twenty dollar bill. They arnt purposley trying to cheat you out of money. SURE you may not like it, but what are YOU going to do about it? Obviously complain, but then again…who cares? Everyone else is having the same problem as you are. Get over it.

  26. Tim Gagliano says:

    I never said anything about cheating out of money…. just common sense.. if a major change is planned you do not implement it on a weekend… gah. But as I said.. I should have read the post first cause it’s on the BETA grid

  27. Vivienne says:

    “As do I, it is just as your first life, sometimes things happen and you drop and lose a dollar, a ten dollar bill, a twenty dollar bill.”

    You seem to be pretty rich, otherwise you would take care more. And…because everybody else has the same problem does not mean that there is no problem. And it does not help to tell people that everybody else has the same problem and to get over it.

    When politicians cause problems they won´t get re elected. When a compyny causes problems it will go bankrupt sooner or later. I do not want to see LL break their neck over some problems they obviously have. And i do not like to spend my money on a product which obviously does not work correctly more than half of the time i use it.

    Just had to relog again cause my darned friends list did not load. Which is only a minor problem, you know.

  28. Argent Stonecutter says:

    @26: they planned on doing this change starting Tuesday, to finish Thursday. It slipped.

  29. Argent Stonecutter says:

    @27: Politicians get reelected over and over again for decades no matter what problems they cause, if they can sell a good story. As for software problems, I’ll take Linden Labs over Microsoft any day.

  30. WiLLuMPJuH Gausman says:

    From https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Mono

    “When we run the tests side by side we found that Mono is up to 220x faster than LSL2.”

    .. wow.. sounds like that’s worth the try to improve the general conditions everybody is so keen to see improve ( did i just use a euphemism there or what ? 😛 ) … no matter ‘who’s side you are on’…

  31. Hi this is Blackie Rhode, Please could you guys up on top, and the Government of sl please let bars have there sploders back, look I Made
    good money and have all My stuff, My genitals, My B.C rich guitar
    My Motorcycle and boots and flexi hair…My skin…all Because of Club gothem and Elements night club, please I would love to see all the Newbies have the same chance I had, there so new and excited about second life…Please let them have the sploders to make the money back for it…look I’ll pay for the sploders to go back on annually for Newbies
    Please your eyes shine when you first discover second life, Look if I can’t ever use a sploder or dance pad again for the newbies, I’m willing to do that and pay twords having sploders on for the newbies
    please give the kids a chance…please guys : ) Remember
    How beautiful sl was when you went on and all the support from little things that helped you….Love guys ok peace
    the old sploders no skill other wise we need taxes and a social security system for people that don’t have a credit card, let them get L$ 300 a month from tax Revenue
    please for the newbies
    Blackie Rhode

  32. Liina Pussycat says:

    @15 ….. Windlight really graphically requires less if you turn the older particle clouds off….. Some shader related things however could add to lag yes. The new lighting system that was implemented wasnt in windlight and no actual changes to shaders have actually been made if you look at it….

    The windlight releases may have memory leaks yes…. but then again they are still in the testing phases this is stuff you need to report… I also need to ask some people what memory leaks? The standard viewer for me uses about 320 mb of ram max if i push draw distance up to 512 it doesnt even hit 300 mb if i have it below 512….. Yes things get laggy and this is why things like mono, windlight and havok 4 are necessary upgrades. Windlight lowers the dependence on a 3d more shader intensive skybox in favor of a 2d texture based skybox thus actually lowering some hardware needs.

    At the moment it is still being developed and it has been for a long time. These test releases are going to be bumpy as always and thats a given they will always be bumpy… It’s common practice to upgrade a pc every so often i do it every year and a half to every 2 years if things drag to much if not i wait longer and have waited in the past till the applicable parts for the kind of motherboard i had dried up before replacing the system entirely….

    I’m currently building a newer system because my computer doesnt meet the demands for other applications i am throwing at it… I currently use photoshop and applications like zbrush while i have SL open and things run fine… But myspace pages and the like cause major lag no matter what Browser im using many applications people run can have adverse effects on other applications running on their computer currently… Other factors come into play with Second Life running poorly not just the base application itself…

    We have people in a given area….. Alot of People logged in at any given time (weekends are worse most of the time…) Scripts coming into play (poor scripting can lag a sim with no one but you in it…) Overkill on objects or visaul effects etc. I see a good deal of people totting around SL saying ohh i dont have a virus scanner or ohhh i dont need a fire wall etc (and these are folks using windows) and well frankly these are things you do need even at a minimal level….

    Computer care is one of the biggest things overlooked by alot of PC users and if you dont maintain your system both hardware wise and software wise it can massively slow down and effect your overall experience. You may not notice it with some apps that dont push things network wise, graphics wise etc but when you hit something that does it can be bad.

    Try doing some matinance keeping things up to date etc and see what happens… You dont need a brand spanking new PC and alot of even the low > mid range 8000 series from nvidia will suffice. the 8600 GTS isnt that expensive (uder 200 USD easily… and gives good performance…) Still even with the best hardware out there improper care and lack there of of good care (both hardware and software) can lead to downfalls in performance…. (rant mode off)

    Anyways things like mono, and havok 4 end some bottlenecks on the server end and might allow for things like better and more stable scalability etc. Things like windlight will help client side wise. Also as a side note….. If you have a card that doesnt support at least Shader 2.0 in this day and age Its clearly time to upgrade….

  33. Liina Pussycat says:

    @31 camping is still allowed and legal sploders are still allowed in SL …… There are certain types that are still allowed but not all of them…. They cant allow certain kinsd because they constitute gambling and that can get them in hot water…. There is no way around it….

  34. Liina Pussycat says:

    @22 it is the problem of the people that wrote the scripts if they do lag…. LL create an environment and there are ways to keep lag low on scripts which most people blatantly overlook. My partner has looked at some scripts for things like poseballs etc and vendors and the like that are widely used in SL with open scripts and alot of them have a ton of unnecessary and inefficient code in them….

    Scripts themselves can be bad because they are poorly written that isnt LL’s fault in the least. It’s not the company that does the C# codes fault if someone writes an app poorly in that language… The logic doesnt work there….. LSL itself isnt a horrible language considering it was made from the ground up by the linden’s themselves for other people to use inside a virtual world….If people use it in a haphazard manner LL cant do anything about that. IF they disable functions that people use haphazardly they squash any usefulness for that function along with it.

    There is also the fact that alot of people use way to many scripts in a single area and this can become problematic… Even the best written scripts if over done can lead to server side lag due to bottlenecks caused by the LSL2 VM (Compiler or whatever you wanna call it) Mono speeds some scripts up when compiled to it and it may end up resulting in some lesser bottlenecks because we’ll have some scripts in SL working more efficiently… Will Mono replace LSL as the compiler at some point? Maybe but not for awhile they’d need to get all the functionality over and that is quite a trick…

  35. les says:

    I don’t know Lina, i kinda agree that it’s LL’s design that promotes the over use of sims. There is no way to know how laggy a script or object is (unless you are an estate manager with region/debug tools, or hunt out clean sims to check script perfs).

    The only way they meter usage is by the prim to land thing (useless metric) and the link set and attachment point limits.

    Any avatar (on any level) is totally free to walk around SL with thousands of prims which could contain a 1024 texture on each face and hundred scripts in each prim.

    Sounds like poor design to me. We very much need an INTELLIGENT meter system to to educate and limit CPU use.

    We have a bucket with a big hole. LL is pouring in more water to keep it full instead of fixing the hole. It’s all good. Beats a kick in the head.

    Go havok and mono!

  36. Aya Pelous says:

    Never Careless….nor rich, but I am your average human being. Human Error is a b-t-h. And I know you are not perfect Vivienne.

  37. ChatNoir Moonsoo says:

    @7 (and others)

    What’s the point in posting the Blog headline (or a paraphrase) in the comment section of the blog?

    This is not just a waste of bandwidth, but extremely rude towards those with legitimitate concerns about an issue considering that there is a cap on comments.

  38. Liina Pussycat says:

    @35….. this is not entirely LL’s fault though thats like blaming mcdonald’s cuz you got fat from eating to much. People like a sim its their fault not the designs fault limiting it only limits what people can do and that makes the design worse in other aspects. If people are careful with scripts its not horribly bad. You can tell quite easily if a script lags or not. If you put out an object and you start to see fluctuations in the area your in pick it up and see if it goes away i mean unless your really a stubborn person its is really that simple

    I just dont see why people think you cant tell if something is going to lag. Stress test it like you would any product place a few in a sim check it out if your the creator or buy one and see if it lags if it lags to much take it down and end of story. But people whine wah i wasted money on this so im gunna put it out anyways. Thats being stuborn and selfish and to punish and impose limits on everyone because some people haphazardly use scripts irresponsibly is kind of silly if you get down to it.

    There is no outward way to limit scripts without minimizing everything in SL that scripts are used for. Also consider that these scripts if still poorly written will do jack shit. LL would be wiser to make the backend more efficient without limiting scripts. Its a bad move to limit more and more of what is able to be done

  39. Liina Pussycat says:

    fix above -People like a sim its their fault not the designs fault limiting it only limits what people can do and that makes the design worse in other aspects. Should read People with a sim may have more tools but that really doesnt limit a person in knowing if a script or object they are wearing is causing lag. It’s their own fault not the design of the systems fault. Limiting it only limits what people are able to do and would actually be problematic and make things worse and make things hard to design for. It would also increase griefing capabilities as people would try to use up a sim’s script resources….

    @37 they are probably bots… As these things dont really require captcha or anything to work you have bots that will post…

  40. les says:

    “Limiting it only limits what people are able to do and would actually be problematic and make things worse and make things hard to design for. It would also increase griefing capabilities as people would try to use up a sim’s script resources….”

    A sim has 100% resources. When you use 101 you lag the sim. It should be the land owners option to allow how much percentage of CPU a visiting avatar can use.

    Not sure how that would increase griefing or lag?

    I’m sure the giant robot alien furry using 14MS of script time when the rest of the sim uses 0.5 total might feel he’s being limited…and that’s because he pretty much should be.

    Having better info regarding resource use and allocation will not limit what we can do. It will just limited excessive walking lag bombs that are all over SL with out a clue. Might even make the mainland usable.

    Water flows downhill. You can ask it to be nice and take the time to flow up hill, but it wont 🙂

    We need better meters that at least SHOW an overall “lag score or resource use score” for each object. We need sims that distro resources based on owner settings (if an owner wants an overloaded lag pit…go for it) the market pressure alone would remove most of the poorly designed stuff from SL as people looked for “clean” things.

    There simply isn’t any way to tell at a glance if a product you are looking at is clean or uses excessive resources. This is bad since sim overhead is so very low.

  41. Liina Pussycat says:

    well if its limited on the mainland think of that its a griefing tool. And also you cant use more resources then a computer has its impossible for something to use 101% of something The lag comes from using poorly scripted objects and to limit what they can use would need to be a broad spectrum since to do that is a server side function that we dont have access to to open it up would create security issues and if someone figured out how to hack said option it would be problematic and could be used for grefing .

    Lag on the server end is caused by us the users and if people take things into account and arnt morons about what they do things wont be that bad. You say limit the mainland to make it usable think about that for a minute…… if you limit the mainland and some person comes and releases a very intesive thing what do you think is going to happen? It’d probably take more resources to track every avatar and the number of scripts in any given area then it would be just to let them use it. Go find me a server where you can set CPU usage on the end user end unless you yourself own the server.

    It does have some good aspects but it also has other issues that are bad aspects of it. Your not solidly thinking the entire process through and your assuming it wouldnt make security holes etc or that its even plausible for LL to do so. You limit what a visiting avatar can use you lose customer. “Hey you cant come here and use your avatar cuz its using to much resources” guarantee you they wont come back and visit again.

    Also you can have alot of scripts that arnt detrimental thats my point. Someone can run alot of scripts and not have them be problematic. The issue is the people that make the scripts not the direct system itself… Could the system be better? yeah ….. But the bigger thing is if people take what they themselves are doing into consideration things arnt that big of a problem. If someone takes lag into account and genuinely cares what they put out in second life you wont have that many problems…..

    I’ve seen some well scripted sims with a bunch of people in them and low lag. On the same turn i’ve seen a poorly scripted sim with 2 or 3 people in it that lagged more server end. Alot of the server end is stable enough aside from the weekend which will likely improve over time as they start working on some of the other system. Look at actual sim resources at some point and check how the stats are…. I guarantee you its more to do with stuff they are doing in that sim then the avatars there….

    Client side lag and low FPS on your end wont be fixed by anything they do server end since those scripts and server end things will not really be effecting how your performance is. A sim crash or low sim-fps is a result of things in that sim and some other factors but you can easily have 50 people in an area and have a sim remain stable even if those people have their own scripts if your careful on what you yourself put out. 100+ scripted vendors to toss out a thank you for purchase type message or whatever will create lag.

    My point is this its not directly the SIM system or the scripting system that is at fault with alot of sim lag if people are more careful these problems wont always persist… Missing inventory or low client side FPS or problems logging in arnt due to problems in the sim your currently in… They have to do with other problems at LL…… The mainland is usable in sims where the people try to work together for a nice area… I used to be in a pretty stable sim we were careful what we did with scripts and we stress tested the sim a few times before we opened to make sure the sim would stay smooth with our scripts in it…..

    My main point there is that if people are careful with what they do in any given area things can be nice. There is no need to limit things if people themselves are willing to work on what they script themselves…

  42. Lina Pussycat says:

    A lag score on objects would be good i agree…. (my name got screwed up somehow there O.o) Anyways….. Some way for people to tell what is laggy and what isnt before purchase would be good…. However if the creators of said objects/scripts would take some things into account it wouldnt be nearly as necessary now would it? Also how many sims do you know that are actually woefully unstable? The grid can be at times and the FPS from certain things avatars wear can be a pain but not many sims i’ve run into are so badly unstable that they are unusable… Especially in those sims where people are careful…

  43. Tegg B says:

    @1 & @4

    MOUHGTFWYAOA

  44. aSwede says:

    @40

    If you think of the execution of the scripts as customers waiting in line to get serviced, with each script as a customer, it’s easier to understand how you can use 101%, or more, of the resources.

    Since every customer hurries back to the end of the line after getting serviced you get a minimum time needed to service everybody in the line before the same customer is back to be serviced and when that time can’t be met, you’re pushing the required usage over 100%. That’s when you get scripts waiting longer than expected for their turn to run and you as a user see this as lag.

    On the implementation level, you can do several things to affect how to handle this situation but since the server is closed code, it’s hard to do much more than guess and point at standard solutions.

    Since LindenLab has added sleep time for some script functions, they’ve already made some effort to not let a single script use more resources than it should but there is a limit where these delays aren’t enough. And that limit is reached simply by adding more scripts waiting for their turn to run.

    Running the scripts in a multi threaded or single threaded environment also makes a big difference in both implementation and expected behavior. Scheduling of execution is tricky to say the least.

  45. Lina Pussycat says:

    @45 thats just it though its not really using more resources…. Its creating bottlenecks while other scripts finish but its not really using anymore resources then the CPU has… The bottlenecks from running scripts will cause a slow down if there is anything running to much etc……

    I do think parts of what your saying IE a lag meter on objects or some way to see what lag is like on objects/scripts is good but limiting people is problematic… The point i was trying to make before …. Was this… people can stop most sim instability caused by lag already if they have an island or are on the mainland it doesnt really matter if they are in fact careful. The main problem is the people writing the scripts need to stress test it or beta test their products in enviroments that are going to be laggy or have alot of people in them.

    That would help alleviate things i assure you. Then if the person didnt test it and someone bought an object with the script in it or the script itself and put it in an object and t hen placed it out in an area they are in and they start seeing the sim become unstable IE sim FPS dipping down etc….. They should kindly remove it….. The only thing is this puts all the faith on the people….

    They need to be willing to change and try to make SL nicer themselves. I’d rather that then have something forced on me. I dont see avatars as a direct problem unless they are purposly trying to grief….. I’ve not seen many scripts avatars wear that actually caused instability (the lights some wear are aggravating though lol when the ground is bleached >.<) I have however seen lil temp on rezzers sitting around sims causing server lag in a previously stable sim when only one person was in it…..

    Like i said before the problem isnt so much the system as the people who misuse it or use it in a careless manner and dont take lag factors into accounts when making a script or building something… Also keep in mind most sims are stable… Though my computers isnt the grandest i can run SL without seeing many places that are unstable… I’ve been to a few places that were but they had tons of scripted vendors out plus a ton of avatars and well the vendors already were putting stress on the area probably so add people into the equations its bad…. I’ve seen shops with lots of non scripted vendors laid out nicely that have minimal lag with a bunch of people…

    I guess my point is this all comes down to design on the peoples end…

  46. Captain Noarlunga says:

    Guess if this runs 220x times faster we will just crash sooner. |Cant see it fixing the major issues that have occured over the past few weeks. The basic problem seems to be complete incompetence and lack of skill on the part of LL, when introducing new software. Take the last 4 days as an example of this. Additionally, the blogs are never open for comment and the feedback from LL on the blogs is either non-existent or just states…||”we know what caused it”|| ….but I guess we are all too stupid to be told ….. or…. LL doesnt want us to know how incompetent some of their employees are?

  47. Tegg B says:

    Well if there weren’t so many damn campbots, trafficbots & landbots online then the weekend population increase wouldn’t cause these performance issues. It does this every weekend, the bot runners are strangling their own sales potential during peak customer time to the point SL is so borked, the masses they attract by cheating the search system, if they can login and TP to their stores and landparcels, give up and log out before they can buy anything.
    A 20yo Atari performs better than SL at the moment…….

  48. aSwede says:

    @46

    It’s handy to measure the usage with more than 100% to get a grip on how much more CPU time would be needed to let all scripts run at their expected speed.

    (And I didn’t mention a lag meter on objects but that’s just a minor point.)

  49. Argent Stonecutter says:

    Note that “up to 220x faster” is optimistic. In almost all cases the performance difference is not nearly so pronounced, and some people have found cases where mono is slower.

    On the subject of script performance, I would love to be able to get performance stats on scripts in my parcel, the way estate owners can get them for their regions.

  50. Vivienne says:

    “Like i said before the problem isnt so much the system as the people who misuse it or use it in a careless manner.”

    Like I said before: LL set up the system as it is, therefore LL is responsible for keeping this system running. The users are NOT to blame in any way. And if someone decides to set up 100 scripted vendors (which is legal) and PAYS the lab for that by premium fee he has the bloody right to have these 100 scripted vendors run as they are supposed to run withot causing any trouble.

    Once again: Either LL changes the specifications (system) or LL makes the system capable to run the scripts and all, as they promise by advertisement.

    Everything else is only apologism.

  51. S J says:

    @51
    “Like I said before: LL set up the system as it is, therefore LL is responsible for keeping this system running.”
    Exactly, that’s why they are introducing new software to replace the aging infrastructure which isn’t scaling to demand. From Havok4 to Mono, both are newer software designed to cope with the ever increasing demand and new ways which users are using them.

    “…PAYS the lab for that by premium fee he has the bloody right to have these 100 scripted vendors run as they are supposed to run withot causing any trouble.”
    Tell me, where exactly does it say you have the right to have your content run at 100% efficiency? It’s certainly not explicit and I doubt it’s even implied. A lot of the latency I’ve seen is due to poor programming practises by morons. Sure, some things have to be done by polling (Such as certain combat meters and animation overriders) and I agree that such things should be redesigned. It’s common sense that resources aren’t unlimited. Get over it, this is Second Life not Imagination Universe where scarcity doesn’t exist.

    “Either LL changes the specifications (system) or LL makes the system capable to run the scripts and all”
    Why do you think they are implementing Mono? Because they’re bored? Have you even used Mono on the beta grid?

    “Everything else is only apologism.”
    Yes, because the world is black and white isn’t it?

    If you’re unable to understand the fact upgrading a system to handle new conditions may require a rewrite or introduction of a new subsystem, then your an imbecile who needs to go spend some time in the real world of ICT.

  52. coventina dalgleish says:

    Well if you ever get havok4 running I assume it will run with the same lack of stability as your current game does. Again another 24 hours has passed and scripts that functioned last night now fail to work this slip shod amateur method of managing is pitiful. When are you going to establish something that we can work in reliably. That should be the question you are asking yourselves because as it stands now there is no point in paying for this morass. You have a great idea and opportunity but continue to just piss on your feet.

  53. Casanova Serevi says:

    This is my first post. I’m a developer in RL for another company that uses Java. So, I’m familiar with the concept of bytecode and virtual machines. I’m also about 5-6 weeks new to SL. Well, I was on for 2 weeks about a year ago, but I don’t count that. 🙂

    What seems to be an issue is a non-understanding of what a VM is. I use the analogy of a glass of water. If your LSL scripts are hydrogen and oxygen, then the compiler is what combines them to H2O (water), and the VM is the glass that holds the water.

    Using that analogy, it becomes rather clear that the VM is a very fundamental piece that needs to be replaced. In the current setup, it seems to be the equivalent of putting too much water in the glass on occassion (causing lag), and the cup has holes Linden Labs keeps taping over. The problem is that then you end up losing water.

    By replacing the cup with a larger, more solid one, we will be able to have more water in there, less holes, and everything runs smoother. This translates real-world to cpu utilization, memory usage, etc. While I’m sure it cannot guarantee better stability, it will go a long way into allowing for it. It is actually a much deeper and more foundational change than most people realize, unless you are a software developer.

    Now, doing something this profound has to be done extremely carefully and methodically. I’m not sure how the testing is being done, but 100% compatibility with the current LSL VM is an impressive, and difficult task. This needs to be done first, above all else. After a port, only then can one focus on additional features, like other languages, extensions to current LSL, etc.

    I, as a dev, am not necessarily in love with LSL and its very odd quirks, but I understand fully the methodical approach needed to this effort.

    Just from observation of the system and the behavior, I however would hazard a guess that Havok4 + Mono is going to improve stability tremendously; probably also allow for code and design changes in the system to allow increased grid stability. My gut tells me a lot of this is needed to help out the transaction and asset server issues, too. In an interdependent system, one problem can manifest in other ways… especially one as complex as SL.

    I wish you guys in LL luck, you’ve bitten off one heck of a project.

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