Server Code Update Tue/Wed/Thu This Week

[Update 2007-03-19@21:20] Right… good thing we only did 497 regions. We need to revert those regions back to 1.19.1.81992. We apologize for the inconvenience, but the affected regions will need to be restarted a second time to compelte the revert. It will be done in ca. 45 minutes.

[Update 2007-03-19@21:15] The deploy to 497 regions is done. The new version is 1.19.2.82788. You can find out which server version the region you are in is running by Looking at “About Second Life” from the “Help” menu.

[Update 2007-03-19@19:50] The blog post said that the Havok4 beta regions would be updated separately… and that separate update is now complete. The first roll of ~500 regions on the main release will begin in the next hour.

[Update 2007-03-19@12:45pm] Central system updates are complete. We took things slowly and also repaired some login servers that were misbehaving last night and had to be taken out of rotation. Anyone watching the online resident counts (“concurrency”) will see 3 brief dips between about 12:10 and 12:45 when the services that track online status were restarted. The numbers bounce back almost immediately as the system recovers, as designed.

Joshua Linden - Seasonal Attire

We’ll be updating the server code on the hosts that make up the Second Life service this week to server code version 1.19.2 (current version is 1.19.1). As has been the case for quite some time now, this will be done via a rolling restart spread over several days, and there will be no extended downtime or new viewer required.

The list of changes is fairly small, and there should be no noticeable effect in-world:

  • Support for PRIM_GLOW in llSetPrimitiveParams – this will require a forthcoming viewer update to author and compile scripts that use this, however
  • Additional internal web service infrastructure work to remove dependencies on central databases (initially disabled, we’ll then slowly start flipping services on)
  • Additional internal logging and diagnostics to track down the cause of various failures
  • Fix for a rare “I just saw someone else’s IM!?!?!” bug

Our tentative schedule is as follows:

  • Update affected central systems Tuesday morning [Update 2007-03-18@5:45pm] this got started late while we tracked down a bug in the new code. This is halfway through, and will resume on Wednesday morning
  • Update 3 racks (approximately 500 regions) on Tuesday evening Wednesday evening
  • Update 10 racks (approximately 1500 regions) on Wednesday evening Thursday morning
  • Restart remaining 15000 regions on Thursday evening Further updates are on hold until we resolve the problem discovered in rolling to the first 497 regions.

This will not affect the approximately 500 regions running in the Havok4 Beta program; they will be updated separately.

Region restarts will occur in machine order. Each region will be given a 5 minute warning, then restarted.

This entry was posted in Announcements & News, Service Status. Bookmark the permalink.

150 Responses to Server Code Update Tue/Wed/Thu This Week

  1. Blinders Off says:

    Glad to hear of the updates.

    Forgive me this observation… adding the above figures, that makes a current total of what, 17,000 regions? All of them paying between $195 and $350 a month? (Let’s just set the figure at $295).

    So total MINIMAL income to LL is…. around $FIVE MILLION a month??!!!

    And for this, we have bugs (such as group chat) that go on for months and months without being fixed. For five big ones a month, I’d hire 5 or 6 bug teams and give ’em a moratorium of 72 hours on each bug. And we should be seeing lag and teleport problems and crashes all but completely vanish.

    Seriously, when you’re raking in that kind of cash, your customers should expect some major service.

    When you charge the price of a new car for a sim, I think we should be able to expect new car performance. Just sayin’.

  2. Fluf Fredriksson says:

    Oh jeez…
    Is there some sacrifice I can do with black candles to help this one iron out more bugs than it introduces?
    I can’t keep up with the number of server and client upgrades being pushed out. Let alone file a decent bug report that viewer X has problems in server code Y. Because X & Y will both be updated in a week or so, making the JIRA entry obsolete…
    /me chants the “Stability” mantra and hopes it allows periods of settlement where useful bug collection can happen.

  3. Samantha Glume says:

    Yay! Scriptable Glow!

  4. Kat Hynes says:

    Currently running just fine on1.18.5 yet I see the current viewer is 1.19.! I must have been asleep at the wheel because my log-in screen says try the optional 1.19.05. ( I did but thank god Fluff had posted how to get back to 1.18.5), because I missed my friends. anyway, what’s the consensus here ?

  5. U M says:

    Fix for a rare “I just saw someone else’s IM!?!?!” bug ? Oh really…….. ok

    looks like soon enough we ae getting closer to a more stable client. That was until lastnight mytime. Crashing? Now has anyone been addressing the memory leak that 1.19.1 has been having resently? Oh yes and inventory that has been taking 30 mins to load? Or having inventory errors that say “PLEASE TRY AGAIN”…….. Doesnt look like it……….Please address these.

    Usagi

  6. Klaatu Congrejo says:

    In an earlier blog (Support Navigation Changes… Going Live Now!) posted by Maurice Linden it was stated “As a general rule new server code is not introduced on Friday”. Presumable this is so that we can have a better chance of a trouble-free weekend.
    But here you are saying that the bulk of your server code updates will be carried out on Thursday.
    You may not have noticed this but we have a long holiday weekend coming up with Friday and Monday being public holidays in many countries (USA, UK, Australia, most of Europe and S. America, etc).
    So will any ‘teething problems’ associated with Thursdays work plague us all until Tuesday?

  7. Ric Mollor says:

    Are there any plans in place for improving the accessibility of the predicted restart times for specific sims?

    The current ‘5 minute warning’ coming “sometime” within a 3 day period is completely unacceptable for a serious business platform. Additionally, during restarts, a fairly high percentage of servers seem to be unable to return to operation automatically and have to be manually restarted. The downtime for these uncooperative servers is highly variable and seemingly can go on for hours before being detected by Linden Labs and being corrected.

    If there are no upcoming fixes for this showstopper condition are there any plans of offering private regions with guaranteed uptime to a contracted percentage? It would seem that a market may exist for services above the current highly unsatisfactory level of customer service.

  8. Gracie Jun says:

    Hmmmm!! Why don’t we stop worrying about all these updates, making things “new and improved” and start fixing all the bugs, like people losing L’s when purchasing, losing no copy inventory when rezzing, getting stuck in the middle of TP’s (and when the TP does work having your hair, shoes, jewelry, ect. up your bootys). AND LAG!! Fixing all the current bugs will help to improve Second Life and make the customers (especially the ones with premium accts and the ones that buy lindens) a whole lot happier. When I first came into SL over a year ago it was not nearly this bad. Just sayin’!!
    Oh and Blinders Off!! You have a very good point!! I don’t think I coulda said that any better!!

  9. Antonius Misfit says:

    Wow, first the new web features, now scriptable glow! I’m stoked about adding that to some of my projects, but I’d also like to see some viewer stability improvements too. 1.19.1.1 RC is still too crash-happy and I’m forced to use Dazzle(which I do like, but I miss the web stuff).

  10. starheart clip says:

    Hey we are having in world issues when buying things or playing games , It times out but it takes our lindens 😦 , This isn’t fair to us members who buy in Lindens with real life USA $ , Now a happy person right now …

  11. Hevenz Vansant says:

    Erm.

    Wouldnt it be better to roll out new server code on Mondays so if something happens, which it will, that you can use the rest of the week to correct it seeing that most people marathon SL on weekends?

    Or is this your way of telling us to go out and get drunk on weekends? 🙂

  12. U M says:

    What I don`t understand is why the memory leak is so great” yet again”. When inventory does finally load the UI crashes. Nobody likes crashing. Thisis not simple issues they are major ones. Fix for a rare “I just saw someone else’s IM!?!?!” bug ? this one if it was real could have waited. How can this be if the group im system is not even working. How could personal IM even show this occurance……

  13. Steve Jobs says:

    Keep up the good work!

  14. I’m having Data Server Errors when trying to buy things.
    [17:23] The system is currently unable to process your request. The request timed out.

    It has taken $L with no delivery in return.
    ( One Seller was trying to refund my $L and had a time out. )

    Yup, its busted (>_<)

    Well keep trying!
    ,,,=^_^=,,,

  15. Mortus Allen says:

    @ #5 U M the perpose for them doing increasing sized batches is to catch the bugs in the wild with the small batches before going grid wide. This means if things not go well with the first 500 they can fix is and only have the first 500 effected.

  16. John Adams says:

    @blinders off –
    well once again we have a cinnabon employee from the food court in the mall ranting about how software is developed. blinders, your bloviating would hold more water if you added the other costs running a company as seen by the people that run the company, not just an office supply stealing employee. Such as the horrific costs for the colocation for starters. then you have the obvious costs of facilities, utilities, employees and their insurance, and other infrastructure items that it takes to run a company. Next, you cant just hire a programmer and let them loose on a large system such as SL. It most likely takes a well seasoned programmer several months to become familiar with the code and the systems used to build the resultant applications and services. If you just go in ham fisted willy nilly chaning things, then there is a good chance you are going to break something down stream of your code and make things alot worse. I think they are doing a pretty good job. Your rant is about like the programmers at LL coming down to the mall and telling you that you are charging too much for cinnabons because you only use 40 cents worth of flour in a bun and you could make cinnabons more rapidly if you turned up the heat in the oil to 5000 degrees.

    keep up the good work LL

  17. Vivienne says:

    GIMME BACK MY CHATLINE!!!!!

    And fix these annoying bugs before you EVER dare to throw anything “new” and shiny on me.

    NO weekend without a major blackout these days, my oh my. Not to mention the friends list not loading in 1.19, account not loading…frustrating.

  18. U M says:

    But for over 3 days? I thought server update was bad… last resently as I said inventory issues have been running a muck as they say. Crashing people out. I just hope read the crash reports ( thats if they even get them).

  19. Ivantwin Rogers says:

    i love new lindens projects, go ahead!!,

  20. Blinders Off says:

    @ 16 John Adams. John, IMO if you weren’t so busy admiring yourself in the mirror, it might occur to you that there are others out here who are professionals in the computer field who know exactly what we’re talking about. I respect your right to your opinion. So I think a little more respect is due from you regarding the opinions of others and keep the snide “food court” flames to yourself. I’d wager that head to head, and experience years to experience years, I could look you right in the eye and never blink.

  21. PLEASE FIX SECOND LIFE says:

    blog postings are not working on maurices blog about web site i have tryed 4 times to post a question and it does not show up

    can someone please fix teh website everytime i click on a damn link it goes to teh SECOND LIFE IS OFFLINE PAGE OR SECONDLIFE IS OPEN PAGE when i wanna look at my transactiosn page and i click that links i do NOT wanna get a page that says second life is open please have your webcoders fix these flaws that have been going on for ages
    when u click a link it should take you to the page you want not some weird page telling me sl status

  22. Tristin Mikazuki says:

    The assest servers are messed up again adn comments are of on the blog post ggrr

  23. John Adams says:

    @Blinders – you still didnt come up with any believable calculations showing costs for running an endeavor like LL. All you did was try to smote me down. That does not help your argument that you are in the computer “field”. So, we are going to have to so assume you are one of the aging experienced people in the computer “field” that doesnt really help the bottom line, you sort of just hide in the noise and are yet another liability. Now please get busy and provide us with the budget for running a company the size of LL.

  24. bd_ says:

    I find it incredibly ironic how many people here complain about stability issues in updates which are specifically designed to help improve efficiency:
    # Additional internal web service infrastructure work to remove dependencies on central databases (initially disabled, we’ll then slowly start flipping services on)
    # Additional internal logging and diagnostics to track down the cause of various failures

    Many of the problems that SL has been having (lost inventory, anyone?) are likely to have been caused by overloads in central databases which need to be broken up into smaller, less heavily loaded ones. This isn’t the sort of thing that can be done instantly, and requires great care to avoid introducing showstopper bugs worse than the current situation. It makes no sense to complain about no progress in an update notification /specifically aimed at addressing the problems at hand/, although perhaps LL could’ve tossed in a note in there for those not following things in such detail…

  25. Raindancer Raymaker says:

    We complain here as comments are closed on performance blogs….currently cant buy land as requests time out/go stale…so what in world issues are resolved?

  26. Argos Hawks says:

    “and there should be no noticeable effect in-world”

    Please stop saying this. Every time a Linden tells us that, the update goes horribly, horribly wrong. The next one of you that uses this phrase for an update that needs to be reversed should be required to slam their fingers in their car door while the keys are locked inside.

  27. U M says:

    laughs……….its like people rumoring LL is going public? Well thats not possible because they don`t tell the truth half or the time anyways. Takes more then just saying “HEY LETS GO PUBLIC STOCK OFFERING” Its not possible. The FCC wouldnt allow it.

  28. Day Oh says:

    Sounds awesome to me 😀
    I have a hunch this update is going to improve region crossings 😀

  29. M A says:

    This is absolutely ridiculous. You’re making SO much money a month, and yet you still can’t fix the freakin’ bugs? JUST FIX THEM! I’ve spend x number of hours of this past month building and building and building, and it’s a VERY slow process, because I keep CRASHING!

    Increase useability by those who DON’T have perfect computers, kill the lag, kill all the problems with IMs, teleports, things rezzing up our asses, and EVERYTHING ELSE that you could have fixed MONTHS AGO, and just get it over with!

    I honestly don’t know who you have running things back there but they aint doin’ a grand ol’ job! You’re not just a LITTLE behind schedule, or just A BIT, you’re WEEKS behind schedule!

  30. Raindancer Raymaker says:

    now add DNS login problems…..

  31. Tiny Mind says:

    Oh… look! The Lindens have now turned off scripting permissions in some area sandboxes. Gee, I wonder what they are hiding… this time? More crashes?? All I see created in there now are 59 rezzed-copies of AX4 Attack-choppers. That stuff gets a bit stale after a while, ya know?

    See ya next week!

    The Tiny One.

  32. Donovon McCullough says:

    Already there. DNS, DNS, DNS.

    I guess the luck of the Irish really isn’t with me.

  33. TaraLi Jie says:

    Could we get the DNS range of the full machines – and the DNS range, perhaps, of the 500 and 1500 roll-outs.

  34. Ina Centaur says:

    I am amazed that LL has all the sims on just about a dozen racks!

    The outline in the post above mentions 13 racks in total. o.O

  35. Bedsee says:

    bettin John Adams has been in game less than a year lol not to “smote you down” there are real problems with rolling out anything on weekends let alone a holiday weekend. doesn’t take a puter geek or a rocket scientist. my friends and i will get by…i work them =) and to them is a joke, yeah well is the weekend what ya expect?

    we expect crappy rez, missing inventory and teleports that crash
    heck anymore that’s a good day
    fix it LL

  36. Blinders Off says:

    @ John Adams: John, I’m not about to get in some self-centerd troll war with you here on this blog. If I did go to all the time and trouble to provide a detailed list of running such an endeavor, you’d just come up with some way to ignore it or argue with it or whatever. You’ve left two posts here and in both, you weren’t satisfied to present your opinion… you had to make it personal. I got no respect for ya, and I’m not going to spend any more time on you. I’ve dealt with people like you in the past. It’s a wasted of time. You don’t discuss or listen. You look down your nose at others. That’s all you’re about, and I’m not going to spend any effort messing with someone who has no more social skill than that. LOL

  37. Phil Priestman says:

    Case in point the transactions failures today that was supposedly fixed once already today. I sure hope the new CEO will bring some trustworthiness with him/her along with forcing the lindens with accountability to fix things right the first time.

  38. Sean Heying says:

    @ 34, the 13 racks is for the first 2000 regions. The remaining 15,000 regions are not in that figure.

    @ Everyone else, chill, they are starting the update Tuesday, that leave two full days of testing before they push out the rest on Thursday.

  39. Damen Hax says:

    @ 34 ~ Perhaps they are big racks =)

    I assume the big errors we see of late are due to the big changes to server @ client software(possibly hardware). These are to be expected, however if the issues (asset mostly.. funny that) roll on for more than a week or 3, I foresee many randoms getting more than annoyed.

    I for one know how long & hard the diff LL teams work, I only wish them luck in untangling the new mess, it’s not something I’d like to be tasked with.

  40. Thraxis Epsilon says:

    It’s 13 racks for the first 2000 region, the remaining 15,000+ will take up another 104 server racks (at 13 racks per 2000 regions)

  41. Rascal Ratelle says:

    * Grid instability and poor performance
    * Teleports fail quite regularly, especially under heavy load
    * Sim performance varies wildly (NOT due to client content either)
    * Low FPS
    * Serious texture latency
    * World maps are very slow loading
    * Crashes and viewer hangs and freezes
    * Ongoing friends list issues
    * Group chat totally borked
    * Group Notices not getting to all members of a group
    * Random animations starting out of nowhere (and no, not an attack)
    * Sailing off into void space after crossing a sim line
    * Did we mention crashes? Why yes, yes we did.
    * Major bugs not being corrected month after month, year after year (prime example: llTargetOmega)
    * LL spending time on items no customers really want or care about.
    * LL totally ignoring customer voting results and @#$# well doing what they want anyway (prime example: voice… which was majorly voted AGAINST by LL customers).
    * Absurdist pricing on sims and land (namely: $295 and $350 a month for a piece of virtual land is ridiculous. The only thing it does is stuff LL’s pockets with $$$ and keeps most people for being able to afford a sim).
    * Total failure of LL to prevent minors from entering the grid, resulting in continual hassles with immature children (not that some of the “adults” are any more mature… it just adds to the problem and drama).

    … and the list goes on and on and on.

    Why list these things? We’re not just griping. We’re listing these things to point out issues that Second Life customers deal with every single day… issues that Linden Lab continues to ignore (or put on the back burner, or “it bothers us too” into the obscurity pile) year after year.

    And then people wonder why there are constant gripes on the blog.

    That would be why.

  42. Blinders Off says:

    @ 24. BD, if the problems with SL had been recent, or a temporary thing, or if it was just one in a list of problems that LL regularly and consistently fixed, I don’ think anyone would have a problem with that. If LL charged reasonable fees for sims rather than some of the highest fees in the business… people might not complain.

    But since the bugs and problems and lack of proper fixes have been going on for years, and every new toy they come out seems to bring a plethora of new bugs and problems to add to the unfixed ones… people get frustrated. Since LL has no feedback page or adequate user support system to speak of (unless you pay them $295 a month for an island), people become even more frustrated.

    As a good example, the group chat bug went unfixed, unattended and unresolved for almost a year, and just now LL announces they’re working on it and will be testing a fix on limited sims. That’s not a minor issue… and it took them flippin’ ages to even take a glance at it, despite numerous JIRA posts regarding the problem.

    So… that is why people complain and that’s why they don’t cut Linden Lab any slack. At the prices LL is charging… time for them to put out a little more professional product. I mean, I paid $29.95 for a very complex online game that never crashes, never lags, and I’m totally satisfied with it. The performance I’ve seen on SL is inexcusable considering the fees they charge. If they’re going to charge Porche prices, we expect Porch performance. It’s just that simple. I’d be the first to cut them some slack if it was warranted. But when we see bugs go unadressed year after year after year… it gets old.

    That’s why people complain.

  43. James says:

    I’ve been in world since febuary of 06. SL gets better and worse in fits and starts. It does no good to bitch about it, things have slowly gotten better for a while, then it gets bad again. I left for a few months recently and really the only problem I am having coming back is from lag. Current release is pretty stable on my machines. I am not a programmer, but I have friends who are and they say that LL even keeping sl in one piece is a miracle at times. One thing that would help imo is restricting registrations to a certain amount a week or per month. Well thats all I have to say besides, thanks LL for giving us something like SL to “live” in. Keep it up.

  44. Iosef Mikoyan says:

    First let me say that I’m amazed that something this complex can run as well as it does.
    BUT, let me also say that I agree with those who have said fix the bugs that are already (still) in the system before doing more Gee-whiz upgrades that only professionals with huge, screaming fast computers will notice. I’d love to be able to teleport somewhere and know that I’m not going to find half of what I’m wearing in my behind.
    Or end up looking like ruth. Or both. One wonders why her ghost still haunts us after all these years.
    Before adding more chrome, mag wheels, or painting flames on the sides, lets get the engine running on all cylinders, not cripping along on 5 and a flat tire.

  45. Steady Enzo says:

    @John Adams ,
    Blinders off is right, Im a Network engineer and work with Software devlopers, Ill give you that a good software developer as an employee could run you 80 – 100K a year and say you have a team of 10.. I would say keeping a bay of which can hold 30 cab is one room. with good backup power & probably the most costly would be your WAN links. And additional staffing 2 Million a month which office rental included. By safe estamates give 3 million dollar profit. amonth. So fudge how you want they are making a very good profit. Also when clients which Im one of pay for a service which i do. You do expect a stable platform.. Also SL may want to put out an update as to what kind of hardware that will run best and reduce lag on our personnal pc’s I have built mine up and dont see lag but i do crash alot with new Viewer. So John , users have invested in this program if you think not , then evryone leave and see how long SL lasts without paying customers…

  46. Rascal Ratelle says:

    There are serious memory leaks in 1.19.0.5
    https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-2997

  47. Phil Priestman says:

    there’s been jiras about the memory leaks for months and they are either closed claiming its fixed or simply ignored.

    But hey, look at all the pretty colors they’re putting out like Dazzle, that will distract us ooooing and ahhing as we continue to crash and re-connect.

  48. SLurl Link says:

    Do you have a list of additional bug fixes included in this update? Or it that it?

    Does that include SVC-1711 which I hear is internally fixed and was potentially due for the next server release, as per my earlier concierge chat today indicated?

  49. Reg Mannonen says:

    When you charge the price of a new car for a sim, I think we should be able to expect new car performance. Just sayin’

    /me wants to car shop where Blinders does.

  50. U M says:

    There is no pardon for what is happening these last few weeks. memory leaks? STILL? NONONO….They keep fixing this and it keep coming back. Look at 41 remarks…………If that doesnt sum up the issues regaurding Sl I don`t know what does. If we just get some honest replies ( Sidewinder Linden is good at this). Then MAYBE peopek wouldnt be so upset. “racks ” are only as good as he people the mantain them. Chill? What you think people been doing the last few months? Playing withthemselves? Please………… Lets get real here and stop lieing shall we? After last night and crashing due to a major memory leak issue Please spare me the rah rah BS…….There are so many problems occuring its even less then funny hten it was months ago. Drepress is the word now. what worse is people supporting the isae we are closer to problem solving issues then before. Talk to any major island(s) own love and ou hear alot different story then postive…………

  51. Raven Primeau says:

    Hah several more memory full crashes and I rummaged round and went back to sweet old 18.5.3 viewer, Ahhh like a good old friend, maybe not so pretty but everything where it should be and STABLE as the latest screwed up code allows.

    Got the Nicolaus patch too while I was on and will install that 2morrow.

    So LL you can poke 1.19 rev whatever up your bum till you sort the pile of poo it is properly and not try and force the cr@p upon us again please. with 18.5.3 at last I can build again with no shifting prims, textures and things actually staying where you put them.

  52. Argent Stonecutter says:

    @34 Ina: that’s 13 racks for about 2000 regions.

    There’s another 15000 regions after those 13 racks, so maybe 120 racks in all?

  53. concerned says:

    I have to agree with Blinders the current charge for an Island is $300 per month while you are getting a class 5 sim you have no guarentee of performance for that upkeep money,only recourse you would have is if service was unavailable for over 24 hours.

    We do have to accept that the world advances and bugs and issues will always be there but it does seem in past 24 months we are paying a premuim to test a beta for Linden Labs.

    Wouldn’t be so bad if they provided any decent protection for items you design or any sort of policing any more but we are paying more for a degraded service and anyone pre 2007 certainly 2006 would agree.

  54. hmr1000 says:

    The fact is these problems have been going on for well over a year and a half now, and the bugs we are seeing are bugs we have been seeing for most of that time, and during that time LL has done very little to fix these issues or seriously address them, and instead have drastically lessened support, let in hordes of free players to further stress the system, and introduce more and mor new and unwanted innovations that are not asked for and seldom do more than create more problem for the player base. It is because of this that player are skeptical of LLs promises and have little faith in their ability to do anything more than line their own pockets with mone we pay them.

    When LL begins to fix the problems they have created and get some control over the SL program, they will see player satisfaction begin to improve, but until then all the newbie cheering sections in the world will not change the fact that they are doing a terrible job of managing this situation, and should had they any professional pride in their work regularily apologize to us for the general mess they made of things and stop promising things they obviously cannot produce.

  55. Larkum Woodget says:

    Isn’t it time we just accepted that the metaverse is as buggy as RL?

    I mean chaos is a fact.

    Hurricane Katrina, the big tsunami, San Andreas fault…

    The fact that my hair is falling out…

    I blame the Lindens. When are the Lindens going to fix my hair and my gammy knee??? XD

  56. concerned says:

    Of course SL will always have bugs that is not an issue,its when people are having to spend more time logging in or crashing than playing it is not acceptable if you are above reccomended specs.

    Theres a flip side all pc’s are different.software/hardware conflict will always exsist,I do expect up to 60% of issues are actually PC or NET issues the fact remains that a lot of major issues are server side and not client.

    I must say though lindens have done a lot of great work finally over inventory issues,i know they still occur but it is much improved.

  57. So what makes a good debugging team great?
    Is it showing up for work doing your job of tracking down and ridding errors, bugs, ect. collecting your paycheck, then being laid off because there are no more bugs, the team isnt needed?

    Or is it ensuring the bugs remain “pesty and elusive” allowing you to stay employed, keeping the BMW from being repo’d and the kids fed?

    I dont post on these pointless blogs, errors will always remain, they desire to stay employed, as “employed” is our measure of personal success, there is a level of flexibilty & tolerence in the mindset an “Ah good enough” type of quality control, a balance between completing the task of elliminating the bugs (unemployed) and acceptable performance/quality (employed).

    We as end users of course would like the highest level of quality & performance, well that just will not happen since them beemer payments keep comming, the wife keeps shopping, country club fees are due, and the kids need larger allowances to keep them outta the way.

    I for one will keep inworld knowing this, and will go back to my reading and laughing at the illogical griping by those with no sympathy for the rich and thier need to maintain “quality of life”

    Toodles for now, i am going to see if i can push some stale transactions through an asset server that may be back from lunch break.

    Sugar

  58. Ivantwin Rogers says:

    i aprove all new changes in second life, how many people here complain about stability issues in updates, I love the new changes and inmovations, bugs? all games have bugs!,

  59. Wynochee LeShelle says:

    Well, beside the noticeable defects and effects and the no-noticeable effects and defects, beside all the well known experiences between lag and inventory loss and crash, there are some good news about stability, speed and quality performance: the customer side works stable and fast. Our money comes solid in time and with lightspeed and with perfect performance on LLs bank-accounts, without any lag, without any bugs, without any downtime or crash. Just to show the positive side of the business. Customer side works still stable and professional. Good, huh?! 😉

  60. Wyald Woolley says:

    I get the impression that this server code update is primarily to fix or improve the grid’s performance and stability. It seems to be implemented in a thoughtful and careful manner, unlike some earlier “upgrades.”

    It would be nice if some of that were conveyed in the opening text, because. if so, then some of the complaining about fixing the server side grid problems are being well addressed.

    I cannot figure out why some of the viewer issues are not being addressed by some team or other. It seems to me that jazzing some of the colors of the interface is busy work when there are memory leaks and unasked for clutter and junk taking up screen space.

    Linden Labs has lacked adult leadership for a long time, it’s good to see that there will be a change at the top soon. Hopefully it will be someone that can direct and energize the whole company in place of the pockets of performance trying to make up for the unbelievable lack of an overall vision without a plan or supervision.

    I commend Joshua and Sidewinder and some others for trying to bring on the stability and performance SL so dearly needs, even if, at times, it seems to be not coming about.

  61. Xavier Felwitch says:

    @60 yep they are but those fixes go through the Release Candidate process.

    I really do feel the latest RC is one of the most stable clients we have had for awhile. I use it on both a laptop and desktop and have had less problems of crashes and other issues listed on @41’s list. It has also given me back my friends list with is a bonus.

    Keep up the good work LL.

  62. U M says:

    Wyald, thats a very good point. Sidewinder ( joshua well….at times ) seems to be the only one these days that is doing any good.

    As for Linden Labs has lacked adult leadership, that been one of the biggest problems during these last 1 1/2 years. Why is it that instead o getting quility service people we landup with well………You know what I mean.

    Example the “Second Life First Look Dazzle” the crashreports dont even get sent back to LL” you call this a smart move? Please anyone that been in this game knows that need “ADULTS” not kids playing with coloring sets. Oh it was a nice pretty thing. But please skin only diff is no pardon for this type of crapy and useless waste of LL monies.

  63. uh-oh says:

    Yes friends list barely working. group chats not working and major lag. Tthis is what I am getting on my end. I hope this fixes it.
    good luck with it.

    *” Total failure of LL to prevent minors from entering the grid, resulting in continual hassles with immature children (not that some of the “adults” are any more mature… it just adds to the problem and drama). ”

    I hear that. Lets get IDV going so we can get these kids off the adult grid and back onto the teen grid where they belong.

  64. Blinders Off says:

    Lots of good comments above and lots of ’em insightful on both sides of the issues. Wanted to reply to four or five…

    @ 41 Rascal… right on the button.

    @43 James. Yeah, if you’ve been here since Feb of ’06, SL would seem to have its ups and downs but some improvements. Granted that. But if you’d been here late 2004 and early 2005, you would have seen private sims on totally dedicated servers that ran like greased lightning while fully populated. You would have seen a lot fewer crashes, group chat that worked just fine every time, and people not having to have $300 graphics cards and quad-core systems just to walk around SL at a decent rate. That ended mid 2005 when they started stacking servers, and just got worse thereafter. I will admit there are some tools on SL now that are very nice, and overall the interface has improved some (I’m not at all crazy about the new graphics settings interface or Dazzle, but…). Generally though, if you were to compare February 2008 performance with Feburary 2005 performance in general… 2008 would be obviously much, much poorer overall performance, especially in the private island area (mainland always dragged, but private islands used to be great). Of course back then there were only 500 or so sims and only about 35,000 users. Strikes me that Linden Lab is simply overloading their system– majorly. Not meaning to sound like a nay-sayer. I’m just telling it like it is. Such can be verified by older members who used to own private islands during the 2004/2005 year. One day someone flipped a switch, and the warp drives went offline. It was all over the forums.

    Also back in 2005, you would have seen sims at $195 instead of $295 and $350 with a purchase price of $900 instead of $1650. So Linden Lab increasing prices by such vast amounts while performance dropped like a rock is what has a lot of the older users screaming. IMO, it’s a betrayal of customer trust in pursuit of corporate profit and courting big business (mainly by flooding the system with new users at the expense of the existing system). On that note, one other thing you’d have seen: very few minors causing problems on the system, because back then LL required credit card or PayPal verification. That ended too and in came the rug rats.

    @44 Iosef. Yup, well said. Sometimes I am also surprised SL runs at all. But my biggest gripe with LL isn’t how SL runs… it’s their response to how it runs. When fixing group chat sits on the back burners for months and months, and in the meantime they’re concentrating on new eye candy like Dazzle… I have to think the company’s priorities are way messed up. People have been screaming this at LL for over 2 years: FOUNDATION FIRST, TOYS LATER.

    @45 Steady: Thanks for verifying that. I didn’t even feel like messing with JS. Seen too many like him in the past and had no desire to deal with such nonsense. I get tired of dealing with folks who believe a little bit of computer knowledge qualifies them to analyze entire business structures, and I get really tired of people who think their opinion is so absolute that anyone who disagrees with them is beneath their contempt. I respect people who respect others. So thanks for laying it out for him. I had no desire. ;D

    @46 Rascal: Yup. Major memory leaks. If anyone wants to test it, just call up the Windows Task Manager box and watch Secondlife.exe memory usage climb with each minute you’re on the system. I’ve been sitting here writing this blog, standing in one place on SL, and my memory usage has climbed from about 350 megs to over 950. Yeah, I’d say that is a MAJOR memory leak. And why LL isn’t pouring majority resources into finding that leak is beyond me. I guarantee any other responsible computer company faced with a memory leak like that, would have the cause of it traced down in (likely) 3 days, 2 weeks tops.

    @47 Phil: Yup. Plain and simple.

    @49 Reg: LOL. Actually, you can find a new car at SL prices about anywhere. Think about it: New islands cost $1,650 up front. That is down payment for just about anything. Monthly “lease” is $295. You can get a pretty nice car for $295 a month. Fact: First year cost of owning an island on Second Life is a whopping US$4,895. Yearly cost thereafter is $3,540. So go out shopping. Pick your lot. Salesmen everywhere will love to have your business. : )

    @50 U M: “Chill? What do you think we’ve been doing for months”. Yup yup yup yup. Exactly. Some people have been trying to chill for years, while SL just operates worse and worse…

    @53 Concerned & 54 HRM: Not gonna quote ya. Just gonna say that anyone who doubts what’s being said here, read messages 53 & 54. They’re right on the nose. For doubters, we’re not the only ones saying these things. Check out the blogs people. There are a LOT of (not just dissatisfied) but ANGRY customers here. There is a reason for that.

    @57 Sugar: LOL. Thanks for the chuckle. 😀

    @58 Ivan. And do all games charge you $295 a month? Frankly, I play games and I can say unequivocally that Second Life is THE buggiest system I have ever seen in some (mumblety mumble) decades of professional computer and business work. All games have bugs? Yes. But I think some have far fewer than Second Life. Show me a game that crashes 6 times a day, lags to a standstill regularly, and loses player inventory, and I’ll show you a game company out of business.

    Like everyone else, I’m very pleased when LL does something right. I pat them on the back when they do. I am almost ecstatic about the upcoming megaprim fix in Havok 4. Tested it and it’s just wunnerful (wish it had been fixed long before now). So yeah, I love patting LL on the back. Only problem is, opportunity to do so is few and far between. Bottom line: LL really needs to stop playing around on our money, and get to work. Sorry, that’s just the way I see it (and others too, apparently).

    When you’re raking in the big bucks, you’re expected to do the job. When ya charge for a Cadillac, deliver a Cadillac.

  65. Kyder Ling says:

    Jeez, another blog post wasted. Seriously, this is getting annoying when every blog post ends up being more of the usual rants. For those of you who did well constructed rants, thankyou for the grammar and spelling, but unless it’s a rant that these fixes should have come sooner, in which case you are being just plain ungrateful to the hard work, do not post here…

    Not unless it’s a real on topic question or concern. I’m trying to learn more about the new scripting features popping in and instead of SL power users giving open talk, we have people displaying poor tastes in protest locations.

  66. Ann Otoole says:

    /me begins prepping for scripted glow

    AT LAST!!!!!

    THANKS!

  67. Blinders Off says:

    Oh a correction to my last post: SL does have a close competitor in the “buggy as it can be” market. It’s called Windows.

    Sorry, just could not resist. I use Windows daily and I sometimes think Micro$oft trades programmers regularly with Linden Lab. LOL

    To be totally honest, I have seen programs that functioned worse than Second Life. The companies that produced them were total amateurs and out of business virtually overnight. What I meant to say is that Second Life is one of the buggiest systems I’ve ever seen, networked or not. For sure, the games that I purchase work much, much better, and cost a whole lot less.

    I know that SL is extremely complex. That is why I am willing to cut LL some slack whenever a new bug crops up. Takes time to fix such. No biggie.

    But when that bug remains unfixed for a year, two years, three years… naw, that’s when cutting slack ends. If I was an employer, heads would be rolling. And I think the comment above about Linden Lab needing some “adult supervision” is right on the button. When I see how Linden Lab operates, I hate to say it but I am majorly reminded of the dot.com companies of the late 90s that were run by a bunch of adolescent-mentality morons that couldn’t run a company to save their lives. They played around and cost investors millions and millions of dollars instead of doing their jobs and making their visions pay off.

    Linden Lab seems to have made their visions pay off with their stock investors. But they’ve done so at the expense of their customers. And the only reason people let them get away with it is because right now… there’s no other real competitor in town.

    That of course, will likely change over the next 2 years. Then Linden Lab will learn what the word “consequences” really means. Answering to angry stockholders can be a nasty experience.

  68. So, wait, let me see if I comprehend this…

    You’re going to take workload off of single purpose servers, and place them on the MYSQL driven databases on the server itself? You’re going to add additional workload to an already overtaxed machine? Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. All so you can cut costs and deprecate a few hundred servers. I hope it bites you in the ass.

  69. Steady Enzo says:

    Hey, Blinders off
    I have to thank SL for one thing there memory leak filled up to 1 gig of ram and found a bad sector. and crashed replaced my memory boosted to 4 gig. So i last longer before crashing. What a bargin.

  70. AnnaLatexa Beaumont says:

    Hello, do whatever is needed, but don’t forget the VWR-4570, please!!! Thank you 🙂 Anna

  71. CC says:

    These upgrades are getting to be a major issue with business and customers losing purchases …not recieving what they pay for every week for months now PLEASE POST A WARNING IN WORLD BEFORE TOUCHING WHATEVER YOU ALL TOUCH that starts off this mess every week! what does it take to give a 2 second popup in game telling us that you have started working on code beware not to purchase ..i swear to god total freakin morons are running this show it never fails soon as you all mess with code behind the scenes these purchase errors start failed money transfers and database errors
    you all wait till after everyones already lost there item they tryed to buy and lost there money before you decide oh we better post a blog report PLEASE GIVE YOUR DAMN CUSTOMERS WARNINGS how many times do we have to ask

  72. Ursa Henley says:

    LL just proves that things dont always get better with age, sometimes you jsut need to put them out of thier misey and go get another one, im jsut hoping and praying that LL and the brass at linden labs would quit pocketing the money they take in and try hiring someone that at least knows something about programming, its been 4 years that i know of and i cant remember a single thing ever that got fixed and stayed fixed. then again i still believe you get what you pay for. but its obvious that when a company gets the big head the customers come last and LL proves that every single week, plus they love to rub salt in after the fact. so now LL plans yet again to hang that magic carrot out in front of us and play it all over again.

  73. trinity says:

    Complaints, complaints, complaints…….
    grrrrrrrrrrrrrr…

    Stop whining about land prices. If you find it too expensive, why don’t you just forget the idea of buying ???
    Ha ?

  74. Joshua Philgarlic says:

    Bad bug handling is the one thing. The other thing is totally unprofessional feedback handling from Linden’s side.

    – Search not working for keywords with less than 3 characters? No warning.
    – “Attach to…” not working propperly? Nothing.
    – Group chat messed up? No info at all.

    I could continue this list for a long time, I’m sure.

    Sometimes it would help residents to get just a short message from LL that they are aware of those issues and working on it. And I mean an inworld message or an email – and no blog entry or jira discussion one has to investigate first.

  75. Joshua Philgarlic says:

    @ 74

    If you don’t like the complaints here, why don’t you just stop reading them?

  76. trinity says:

    Hahahaha…
    If you don’t enjoy second life,
    why don’t you just QUIT ?

  77. Mondak Slade says:

    @26 I agree with you, LL please stop saying that !

    So far every time that has been said something weird happens.

    Oh btw, fix my inventory that got messed up over a month ago after that upgrade that had to be reverted, Please ?!
    I reported it and so far only one response? the trouble ticket has been open for over a month and still some of my scripts in my inventory won’t work, that or crack the whip on getting us Mono, lol.

  78. U M says:

    “70 Steady Enzo Says:

    March 18th, 2008 at 12:45 AM
    Hey, Blinders off
    I have to thank SL for one thing there memory leak filled up to 1 gig of ram and found a bad sector. and crashed replaced my memory boosted to 4 gig. So i last longer before crashing. What a bargin.”

    WOW your not Joking!!!!!!! I donew the adding for 4 giga to my computer and it helped. But now This junky client eats that up too…..I had enough of this. Its not bitching “ITS JUST FACT” People those that you LL rah rah people and those that work for LL in some ways PLEASE don`t tell us not to others stop whining and bitching. Those thats don`t have relations with LL Knows all well hoe bad things are. And they will getting worse. Now that LL has ONCE again is allowing signups without real e-mail address this game is going to be even more filled with alts without any real information on file……. wait its not even may when the kids wil be out and logging in and trying to crash the game………. Ok all you RAH RAH people explain what posotive things that can come out of this?

    Depressing no, just plain facts!

  79. trinity says:

    Are you feeling better now, U M ?

  80. U M says:

    Still living in the past?

  81. trinity says:

    I live in SL.

  82. Steady Enzo says:

    Hey trinity, I guess you say quit the game..When alot of people have busineess and money vested in it.. Hmmm maybe trinity is willing to pay back all our monies lost in the game… Trinity you seem to overlook the fact that big monies are spent here and we have vested interest.. So maybe now in trinity view we all just quit and not worry about the 100s of dollars we invested,, Some thousands. Maybe you like spending alot of money on faulty products and just walking away whe it dosn’t work. May we all be as rich as you

  83. U M says:

    Well kids like him live at home, don`t pay for housing or living cost. He might run what 10 or more bots 24 hours a day ( which he doesnt pay electric bills either)taking money out of sl. And he has a computer(s) with over 3,000.00+……..Wait they same one that steal software programs and music too.

  84. AWM Mars says:

    Its fair to say, if you have been around SL for long enough, It cannot be considered anything other than Beta. What smokes, is the high level of finance over the years has gone into this product by those that are no more than Beta Testers/Lab rats.
    I cannot imagine any other business platform that exists that has so many failures, but keeps on ringing the till.

    What happens when all this is at a commercial level of useability? Will LL then start charging every more to use it?

    I cannot remember a single week over the past 4 years, where there hasn’t been issues, and not always ‘new’ ones, some reappear quite regular over and over. What some call progress (Dazzle, tear off menus, voice, windlight etc) Others call eye candy for the paying kids.

    Us old timers have been asking for years, get stability first.. eye candy afterwards.

  85. U M says:

    Let me extend AMW point………When I entered back in 2004 Oct. The game was very differnt. Now well its become bigger (not that much better). Popultion was 30,000 avies ( real signups were about 13,000 many alts for that time too look at the numbers between the two). The client used was 1.5.5 we had alot of problems. music streams always failed, teleported resulted in breaking of scripted objects that we worse. Lag was hitting levels of unplayabity when reaching 30 in a sim (only mainland at that time.) This was bad because we had to fly from telehubs to our final landing point. Sims blowup with over loading the asset server when we worse prim hair, shoes etc and many other issues like taking 1 hour to login during peak times on sl 6pm to 7pm SLT…….

    BUT……………..

    That doesnt compare to the nightmare of lost objects from inventory. copybot, much longer delaying of login times. people falling off world that can not be logged off or killed by LL for hours and days at a time. Memory leaks that at times is so great Its like having my period its the heavy. Etc etc etc Too many too many issues too little action taken AMW does bringup points that is well known on sl. And there is not anyone can fight that it does exist. Oh you can cal him a whinner or cry baby etc. But he knows what he talking about! Dazzle itsself is a just a ego tripping piece of **** that just wasted money and resources.
    Is this depress Travis Lambert? Or should I say (LARS) Well doggy may you should wakeup and stop dream of 2004. This is 2008 and we have more pressing issues then dealing (with ReallyRick M) badly done PR nightmare that blowup in LL face. We have to face the facts that the game is indeed in deep dog poo and unless we start dealing with issues that are not selfifsh totally mememe. This game will fail. ( lets hope it doesnt……)

    Usagi

  86. trinity says:

    LOL…. personnal attacks now… amazing…

    Why did you invest so much on a game that isn’t stable ???

    I invested too… a lot, …..a lot of time and money.
    I am grown up and have a job, a family. This to say I am responsible for myself. I have to earn the money I spend on SL, and on my computer. BUT I don’t speculate. I am not stealing money nout of other people’s pockets.
    I have no bot at all, and only have one Alt, which I use only to save my inventory, from time to time. Clever, eh ?
    When I suggest the idea of quitting the game, I mean it would ease some people’s stress. Some seem really upset here, and sometimes even not able to type or speak english correctly. So, yes, people who constantly get mad at LL AND at other resident should allow themselves a break.
    I can’t break away from SL, and don’t intend to… but if I decided to, I would never ask anyone to give my money back to me.
    I chose to spend it there, knowing there was issues and crashes etc, etc.

    Now… who’s the Kid ?

  87. Cilis Nephilim says:

    Dear trinity,

    I hope you’re not offended if I address you as Trinity. Now I do not mean to personally attack you but I’ve got a great doubt in your ability to see the big picture here.

    If people just quit then people will have fewer friends in secondlife, and they might get bored or even move to other games with their friends, now five people have just quit… Now over on the other clique to my left, 10 people just quit… soon we have numbers of paying and verified users (the kind that investors/advertisers pay attention to) leaving and not being replaced.

    What happens to secondlife when your advice to people is to just quit if they don’t like something, did you think about this? If enough people quit the business model that barely keeps the servers up falls apart and YOU wont have a secondlife to play either, even if you still enjoy it.

    Think about this before you tell people to stop complaining and that they should shut up, these vocal people are the very same ones I see in the JIRA system(Linden Lab’s bug tracker and reporting tool.) and the same sort of people that put together third party projects which in the end benefit secondlife because there were unhappy with what it offered in the first place. (Remember that windlight was originally in the hands of a few dissidence who disliked the old linden sky.)

    So I ask you, Trinity… er… trinity… Think about the bigger picture?

    Users matter and so do their opinions.

  88. trinity says:

    I never told anyone to shut up and never will, since we’re here on a « blog », and everyone’s opinion should be respected. I said « should »… Obviously, it is not the case.
    It seems all these blogs end the same way, more anger and frustration each time.
    I have had terrible issues with SL, crashes (sometimes 5 crashes in less than 20 minutes, inv. Loss.. lag, lag and lag, and crash again).

    I have just learnt today (thanks) that it’s better not to show any different opinion, or else…
    Or else everything could happen…. LOL I could be a Linden (excuse me for the Capital « L », I won’t do it again), a friend of the Lindens (ohhhh I’m so sorry…), or even a kid with no idea about what is earning and spending money, having an army of bots.
    I was just pointing the fact that some get really mad with the issues they have on SL, and maybe it is time for them to step back and think, without having to puke their bitterness all around).

  89. trinity says:

    I guess my mind is too narrow to figure out what is “the bigger picture” you’re talking of.

  90. JoeyMacaroni Vella says:

    Reading these posts just reminds me why this country (United States) and this virtual world (Second Life) are so screwed up. The populations of both seem to be made up of whiny, uninformed, selfish, self-centered, technology illiterate and ‘never going to be happy no matter what you do for them’ bunch of people. It may be time for me to leave this country, both in RL and SL.

  91. WarKirby Magoijiro says:

    LSL glow support yaaay

  92. trinity says:

    #91 whiny, uninformed, selfish, self-centered, technology illiterate and ‘never going to be happy no matter what you do for them’
    AGREED !

    Thanks Joey

  93. U M says:

    Dear …..(don`t write people names that are looking for attention),

    Person attacks is what you started wasnt it? Well i highly doubt you spend any money on sl. lets alone own a business. All due repect but the way you come off attacking people its nowonder why people started talkin gthe way they did. “IF” you live on sl and you have a family how do you mange both? I sure can`t.

    People complaining is their own business and is no business of anyone else. Telling people to stop complaining just shows either of two things…………….

    1.) They don`t understant the value of money and are supported by others in rl.

    or

    2.) Looking for attention

  94. Dale Innis says:

    Well, I think it’s about time all right-thinking Residents stood up and DEMANDED that the nefarious overpaid Lindens immediately STOP FIXING BUGS and add MORE COOL FEATURES! I mean, us horribly suffering old-timers who pay REAL MONEY to live in the world have been asking for DECADES for more tattoo layers, but what do we get instead? Logging and diagnostics and internal dependency removal! Puh-leeez! When will Linden Labs wake up and realize that what we need is INTERACTIVE html-on-a-prim, not some uninteresting improvement in “grid stability”!!111!11!!

  95. U M says:

    Oh so you know about “whiny, uninformed, selfish, self-centered, technology illiterate and ‘never going to be happy no matter what you do for them”.

    You seem to be one of them…….look at yourself

  96. U M says:

    @95 Dale it wil never happen, the public bug tracker was suppose to be that kind of idea. But its not working as they thought. 3/1/2 years and i heard it all durin gthe period of time. We just have to ride it out as they say until one day they have to do something.

  97. trinity says:

    awwwww… U M (does it flatter your ego whan I call you “U M” ?)
    You are so right…. Noone should be allowed to spend time on SL when having a RL family.
    You are so very right…

    Btw, keep telling me what I should and Shouldn’t do… we call it fascism, where I live.

    I was just pointing the fact that nothing is worth getting so angry at.
    Maybe you can’t accept the idea, but this is MY opinion, and as I am a SL user, my opinion matters.

  98. aSwede says:

    @ Blinders Off

    I won’t doubt that you’ve got extensive experience from software development but then I have to assume that you know what happens when a project grows rapidly and you later on want to change the way core functionality works.

    I’m just guessing here, but to me it feels obvious that teleporting and chatting were some of the first things implemented in SL just after rendering female avatars with giant breasts. To later on, years later actually, find out that the initial design won’t scale well can be a real pain. To actually come up with a new design that can be implemented without risking to break everything that relies on it is no easy task with a userbase as large as SLs.

    Refactoring and redesigning core functionality takes time and care so I’m not too surprised that teleports and chat are problematic areas that are put on hold until the developers are *really* sure the changes can be made and result in better performance while at the same time not break other things.

    @ People talking about how much money they’ve invested and how much they rely on SL financially

    Investing money into something like SL and *rely* on it to pay your bills, to me, sounds like taking risks far greater than the stock market could ever dish up, to just name one other risky venture.

    If you’ve sunk lots of money into SL and feel that you’re not getting back what you expected or need, perhaps it’s then time to cut your losses and pull out? Just as you’d most likely do with stock investments. Or at least, as I would do if an investment went sour and I was paying more money month after month.

    To argue that pulling out would spell the doom for SL is to forget that paying every month gives less incentives for LindenLabs to actually get round and fix whatever it is that’s troubling you. They still get their money and can continue to work on things you’re not happy with.

    If you get bad service at a store or a restaurant you won’t go back there. They lose your money and you can try to get better service somewhere else and businesses without customers either need to change or close down. Easy as that.

  99. Marianne McCann says:

    Is there a timeframe for a viewer that supports scriptable glow?

  100. trinity says:

    @ aSwede

    mmmhhh… fresh air at last !!!
    Thanks ! 🙂

  101. U M says:

    Sorry, you seem to be going off the subject………can`t talk about issues if your all over them with your points your trying to make….Sorry common sence tell people this…..

    @99 people that use SL as a business and live off it as a business find bugs, lose of income because ( not just down time ) but objects not being given from their ventors to their buys and sims that are so laggy and over loaded. They can`t make a living. But LL is not held respouncible for loss of income ( well some times they give recource) but not offen. many many people i known inthe past 1 year have packed up and left the business area of sl…..how mnay more will follow?

  102. Audrey says:

    @ 102

    *sense

    * vendor

    * responsible

    * ressource

  103. U M says:

    Oh you tried to say a thing or two or are you just wasting people reading time?…….wait ! you have nothing better to do!!!!!!!!!!!

  104. Gil Druart says:

    *smiles* I can’t manage fresh air .. how about a fresh thread?

    I am amazed by the number of “softwear engineers” and “network enjineers” posting here that seem unable to spell. Generally, I look straight past that: after all many people here are posting in what is, for them, a foreign language. For the self-proclaimed experts, however .. don’t you get an awful lot of “syntacks errors” and “network unreechable” messages? Isn’t it a little career-limiting in those two professions?

    I imagine I have to judge the opinions of such ‘ex-spurts’ by the care with which they are crafted, lacking any better metric ….

  105. Audrey says:

    No, I haven’t…

    Do you ? ^^

  106. trinity says:

    hahahahahahahahahaha

  107. Lyteseker Leakey says:

    Hello All,

    As I read these comments, both good and bad, I can’t help but wonder why some people are taking In-world issues so personally. SL is something beautful and unique, but still in it’s infancy. Babies are not born with several PhD’s attached to them and you all act as if you expect that to happen. SL is growing and evolving just like everything else in the universe. So, please unless you have something to say that supports the Linden’s, your really just crying for attention. There is alot of behind-the-scenes technical issues that are being worked on everyday. Some of you, names withheld, seemd to thing that at any given time, LL picks out people at random to harass and otherwise cause problems for. and to that I say grow up some.

    And, on another note, doing some calculations and comming up with 5 million a month seems to be an awefully low number, but some of you act as if that is so much money. I charge you to take a look at some other companies monthly balance sheets and see what real money is. (eg. Google, Apple, Microsoft, Yahoo, etc) Not to mention again, ty @16, for what you said about the real costs of running a company, any company. All that and much more is what LL is up against, and I for one wouldn’t want that much stress.

    As for the Rollouts and supposed failures to “fix” every little problem, If these did not occur, how does anyone expect them to get “fixed”. When you dealing with a multi-platform, backward compatible, needs to work 24/7 MMO like SL, you will always have some issue to correct. But, crying like a 3-year-old about how this doesn’t work, or that, is not helping to correct it. True, it may take some time, but it will get corrected, even if the staff at LL con’t get back to you personally and tell you that it has, they do know about it.

    And, finally, I personally like to thank and congradulate all the staff at LL for the fine work they do and let them know that as I, a simple user of their fine product, have had my own issues, I would never want their job. what you all do is extraordinary and you have come up with something that is changing the world l live in. So, unless your going to volunteer your time to go to LL and see just exactly what an endevour like SL takes to run, then your silly comment and how SL crashes and my inven doesn’t work every second of everyday seems a bit pointless. Let’s keep that kind of negitivity to yourself and report to LL the issues that you have. They will get fixed.

    Thank you all for your time,

    Lyteseker Leakey

  108. Tom says:

    Plenty help around for you guys who seem to be suffering from stress, but this blog isnt going to help its only a server update that may improve things sl LL does a great job keeping all the multiple connections and servers running aswell as they do for this multi tasking platform of digital connections and codes, Hell my Digital TV freezes more than sl it aint as simplal as using a hammer to fix digital connections. Its called the digital revolution.

  109. Dale Innis says:

    @97 Slightly confused, U M, by your reply to my slightly 🙂 tongue-in-cheek posting, but just to avoid confusion I did *not* mean to be contributing to the “this is awful stop adding new features and please fix all the bugs right now” side of the scale. I was just having a little fun. 🙂 I actually think the Lindens have struck a pretty good balance between fixing bugs and implementing new features, and I was perhaps poking a little fun at people who get all upset about it, one way or the other. Sorry if I was a tad oversubtle about it. 🙂

  110. WiLLuMPJuH Gausman says:

    Admitted .. try running SL or OpenSim yourself ; do it better than is done by LL or anybody else and come back with genuine constructive criticism concerning this blog about the updated server-code. Otherwise it’s maybe better to leave the possibility to strew frustration and get on with it.

    All these remarks do seem like children merely whining.

    Now go back and play , kids.. 😛

  111. Blinders Off says:

    @65 Kyder: So Kyder, you add to the rants with your own rant, taking up valuable message space ranting about rants?

    People rant for three reasons: 1. They’re nuts (it happens) 2. They’re angry (that happens a lot with LL) 3. They want things to improve. Now, if you can kindly point us to where Linden Lab has provide an open, easily-accessible and well-read area for user input rather than these blogs, please do so. If not, please realize that these “rants” as you call them, over the past several years have brought about some of the things you use on SL every day (Estate Tools, Group Roles and Group Tools to name three of them). The “rants” have their purpose. And while I agree it’s unfortunate to be forced to take up space on info blogs to discuss these things, that is Linden Lab’s doing, not ours. These comments are generally on topic. And frankly, they’re quite often more informative than the original blog post. I’ve seen more corporate “claims” come out of LL than just about any other company I’ve ever seen (I hate to use the word propaganda, but that’s really what it comes down to) .

    I think one of my favorite all time such was the claim that stacking sims on quad-core servers sharing common resources made them faster than running on dedicated boxes. LOL LOL LOL (they must think we’re all morons who know zip about computers).

    Second runner up: lag is due primarily to customer content. LOL LOL LOL. That one was so hilarious it started a well-known SL joke: “An empty sim is a happy sim.”

    The “rants” tend to set the facts straight and give people the real scoop. (psst… that’s what “freedom of speech” is all about and why people prize it so highly)

    @68 Katarina. LOL. Thanks for my daily chuckle. So clear… and yet LL doesn’t seem to get it. While I don’t know the tech inner workings of SL, like you I have seen so many illogical decisions come out of that company.

    @70 Steady. :DDD You know, I have to admit, thanks to Linden Lab I now have a quad-core, Nvidia 8800 computer system. If not for Second Life, I’d have never needed to upgrade to that level of power. LOL LOL. Hey, waitaminute… that equipment was expensive…

    @73 Ursa and @85 AWM. If anyone wants to check out the simple voice of experience, read these posts. Nail on the head. I never heard the term “borked” until I stared using SL. LOL

    @Trinity in general: While I disagree with personal attacks of any kind, likely the reason you were the target for such is because people are getting really, really tired of the old, cliched and tunnel-visioned statement “If you don’t like it, leave”.

    No personal attack intended, but that imbecilic philosophy has been mouthed to death, usually by people who don’t have a single clue as to how life or business works. That same philosophy is usually echoed by mob-mentality nationalists with “my country, right or wrong” delusional viewpoint (corporations and governments just love such people, BTW. They’re so easy to manipulate).

    That’s why people react so negatively to such concepts. By telling them “if you don’t like it, leave” you are showing total disregard for their needs and demeaning them as individuals. And saying, “This is how it is, stop complaining” or “if you don’t like land prices, don’t buy land” is just as limited in scope. Those are all simplistic statements that totally fail to understand the complexity of the social and business aspects of Second Life. I don’t like the extreme cost of land in RL either, but it’s a necessity of life (in one form or another). So if you don’t want people to jump you, I’d recommend showing a little more respect for their needs as individuals. I’d recommend also remembering that “the squeaky wheel gets the grease”.

    @91 Joey: I have to say I have rarely seen a more self-absorbed, condescending, and yes whiney and technologically illiterate post as yours. While I agree with your sentiment about the state of SL and RL and I defend your right to state your opinions here, really guy, that was just over the top insulting to mankind in general. Next time you decide to post something like that, I recommend shutting down your computer and reading a good book. 😉 Or better yet, in this one instance you might want to take Trinity’s advice: if you really, actually feel that way, you actually might want to consider taking up other activities. It’s pretty obivous you are absolutely not happy in your current one. (BTW, don’t be flattered that Trinity patted you on the back for that statement. Look at the flack she’s taking for her attitudes. That’s just sad).

    Rule of thumb folks: any time someone gets an urge to complain at someone else because they’re “complaining”… LOL… well, it should be obvious…

    @99 aSwede: Very good and insightful post. Yes, you’re right. It’s a fairly common mistake in the business field to find a company growing beyond initial projections of scalability. In some businesses this is understandable… like the guy who opens a widget factory and suddenly his product becomes an overnight fad. It’s hard to predict how some things will or will not be accepted by the public. If the situation is just right, a simple item like a game console can catch a company off-guard and struggling to fill back orders.

    In the case of Second Life however, I believe LL should have foreseen where the product would go. From the very start, Philip had planned on being the ‘new world wide web’. When one has visions of grandeur such as that… the company might want to be prepared for actually achieving that goal. While Second Life is a unique product in concept… the core foundation is nothing new (3d interactive internet-based games had been around for years). So a little better planning likely was in order.

    Given even that, I can understand how Linden Lab might have been caught off guard. It happens. Still, there’s a difference between being caught off guard… and just sitting on their thumbs for months and months while people are complaining through the roof about group chat being messed up. When something that major happens, the standard course of action: 1) Make public announcement the company is aware of the problem and is taking immediate measures to fix it and 2) Take immediate measures to fix it. Even if that requires calling in an external professional task force. The communications get fixed in 72 hours. 2 weeks tops. That’s just how it’s done. A company without communications usually dies. At the very least, they destroy their relationship with their customers.

    So yes, I agree with you 100%. Just saying LL should have been 100% on top of this. But sadly, LL’s track record over the past several years (as others have pointed out, and forgive please for me not being exactly PC here) is that of a child playing with a new toy rather than professionals running a business. I mean, sure we want them to have fun with it. That’s what life is about. But WE want to have fun at the same time. LOL. Hard to do when we can’t chat with our friends and find valuable inventory missing from our systems because someone at LL is creating toys like Dazzle instead of hunting down serious bugs that are crippling their system.

    There is only one reason I and others post on these blogs: for the ultimate good of Second Life. If we can catch Linden Lab’s attention then stuff gets fixed (eventually) and Second Life gets better (and we do catch LL attention. A lot of the really nice things seen on SL are the things we pushed to get). Sorry if LL feelings get bruised in the process, but that’s what happens when people play around with other people’s money and refuse to listen to polite reason. LL is a multi-million $ business and needs to be conducted as such, in a professional and prioritized manner.

    Regarding your comment about people “investing” on Second Life and what a poor investment that is: no truer words ever spoken. I totally SO agree with you. Unfortuantely, for many people Second Life is more their first life. There are shut-ins, disabled folks, or people who are somewhat antisocial (in fact, I’d say a LOT are antisocial… LOL) who literally spend more time on SL than they do in RL. These people invest heavily in SL because it becomes the center of their social activity. They have friends here. The love their SL homes more than their RL homes. SL is addictive, and with addiction comes expenditure.

    So while I agree with you that investing heavily in SL is a bad bad bad idea, the truth is everyone does so, either in money or time. There are people who could never own a business in RL for one reason or another, who come to SL and through sheer force of mind and will suddenly find they are quite good at running a business, and soon that business BECOMES their business.

    For such people, I both grieve and sympthise and frankly, they are the ONLY reason I keep pushing to make SL a better place. I couldn’t care less about Linden Lab as a corporate entity. I care about the people who have come to make this “game” their home and lives. Because of them, it should work with as much efficiency as possible. The foundation needs to function.

    That’s the main reason I and other are so ticked about the Group chat thing malfunctioning for what… almost a year now? Cut communications for these people, you’re cutting into their lives. It’s the RL equivalent of losing one’s phone line.

  112. JoeyMacaroni Vella says:

    @105
    Excellent point and funny as hell to

    I’m tired of illiterate Americans; it’s hard to take them seriously (I applaud non-English speakers for making an attempt to convey their points in English and quite often do it much better than people whose native tongue is English).

    @108

    Excellent points

    5 million is nothing compared to what it must cost to operate a world wide virtual world.

    And for all you self righteous whiners…

    I’m in the tech industry and see people fumbling through using their computers all the time and the reason they are fumbling is because all they know how to do is check email, play a game and message a friend, but God forbid they take a moment out to see what junk they have running in the background. I have a normal cable internet connection and a pc that hasn’t been updated in 2 years but you know what? I rarely, and I mean very rarely have issues with logons or crashes or any of a number of issues I see people complain about day in and day out on here. I accomplish this first and foremost by having an acceptable graphics card (because this is a 3-D virtual world) along with keeping a clean running computer not overtaxed with junk, yes junk, fancy wallpapers, strange screensavers (most of you whiners probably don’t know the difference between the two) watching what’s running in the task bar (that’s the area in the bottom right corner by your clock for PC users), adjusting your anti-virus to exclude your SL cache, adjust your screen to the right resolution (oh, wait, a lot of you might not know what resolution is).

    It has got to drive the Lindens crazy listening to all these whiners who are clueless as to what it takes to run a virtual world on your desktop pc’s.

    And on a final note, no, I’m not sucking up to the Lindens; I personally think they’re a bunch of mismanaged pinheads to.

  113. U M says:

    Dale your not at all……….

    As they say humor during problem times does help ease they pain.
    les hope they get things fixed asap……..

    But what AMW said is the truth on sl these days..So there are some posting on this issues with meaning. Those that take the seriuos of the issue of stabilty and loss of business don`t find it funny But those looking to cause problems are for their own time consuming lunch breaks from school will never understand.

    Others are just people looking for attention here. Giving them the attention instead of them doing their school work leads to a blog filled with their useless comments…..
    changing names and reposting just don`t fool anyone. Family you say? highly doubtful………..

  114. U M says:

    laughs another one with the short mind to insult and call people names because they don`t have the background to backup their own thoughts…….

  115. WiLLuMPJuH Gausman says:

    Three choices we all have

    1. Accept your 2nd life
    2. Run your own grid
    3 Remain rambling and ranting rubbish

    I choose all three of them.. 🙂

  116. Pingback: Yay. LSL glow - SLUniverse Forums

  117. Blinders Off says:

    @ 105 Gil: Glad to see the typo police are out in force again. LOL. Fact: SL is multinational in scope, and some people posting here have English as a second language. Others (like me at times) simply don’t have time to go back and proof-read every post for spelling and grammatical errors. Such is pretty much standard for blog comments and forum posts. So lighten up. While I dislike poor spelling and grammar as much as you, I tend to take Confuscious’ view of things: “The whole purpose of language is to be understood.” I look at what they’re saying and how they say it. If it appears they know what they’re talking about, I don’t question their credentials. Shoot, I don’t question their credentials anyway; I’ve seen a lot of techs that couldn’t spell their way out of first grade. Seems they forget how to speak simple English.

    @108 Lyte: I have to very much disagree with the statement that Second Life is still in its infancy. To my understanding, the system is about 8 years old now. That is more than enough time for Linden Lab to get its act together. Man, I see companies write software that can measure and display a beating human heart. You telling me LL can’t get simple chat to work because they’re in “infancy” stage? Not hardly. For $5 million + a month… I think they’re a bit beyond infancy.

    @109 Tom: If your digital TV crashes more than SL, I recommend you finding a new provider.

    @111 Will. And yet another condescending post. Why is it some folks (who likely live in a country known for freedom of speech) think it’s wrong for folks to voice their opinions about the state of SL? That’s just beyond my comprehension. What, you think we should all just sit back like sheep and let LL fleece us without saying a word about the messed up state of the system? Get real. I mean, YOU found it necessary to post your dissatisfaction here. Other’s don’t have the same right? Or are you being “childish” too by doing the same thing we’re doing… just from the opposite directon? 😉

    Oooh, them double-edge blades… LOL.

    Regarding the (very few) comments that LL is “doing a great job keeping it all together”… while I respect and support your right to your opinions and right to state those opinions… ARE YOU TOTALLY NUTS? 😀

    LOL sorry, couldn’t resist. Some people are pessimists, some the eternal optimists, and some of us are realists. When we pay premium prices for a product, we expect premium product.

  118. WarKirby Magoijiro says:

    I think it’s about time a few select people were banned from commenting on the blog.

  119. Andrea Faulkner says:

    Your calculations, Blinders, didn’t take into account the additional income way past the 5 mil they make off the sims rent. Lindex exchange fleecing, premium account payments, etc.

    Yeah, you’d think by now they’d be more proactive. In fact, LL runs on a system of unfulfilled promises and incompitent leadership. Case in point… european media screams about underage avatars, LL beings researching an age verification solution.. but never makes it manditory. And this was over a year ago. But rather than worry about exposing kiddies to adult content, they reinstated a CC requirement for the TEEN grid to stop adults goign there.

    That’s all well and good, but having actually MET teenagers before, it’s way more likely that they’ll grab a free adult account and go around looking to find adult content here. And then when they do, who’s liable? LL, or the sim owner? Or both?

    Sorry, but until we force age verification on everyone, and lift this silly “parental guidance” rating on sims, and reinstate the CC requirement to stop the proliferation of alts whose inventory clogs the asset server (not to mention makes banning anyone USELESS).. the grid congestion will remain and the death knell of SL under a flurry of potential lawsuits will remain imminent.

  120. JoeyMacaroni Vella says:

    I should have also mentioned something some of you can try when you’re faced with extreme lag. Find the key combination that gives you access to the “ADVANCED” menu item (I don’t remember it). Under the advanced menu you’ll find RENDERING, then TYPES. Under TYPES you’ll find a number of features you can turn off; doing this may make it easier to move around a laggy environments. You’ll have to experiment a little to see what helps and what doesn’t. Also don’t worry about screwing anything up, it’ll reset itself to the defaults when you relog.

  121. WiLLuMPJuH Gausman says:

    @ Blinders Off : Freedom of speech is a product being sold to you by company controlled countries relying on military capabilities and bullyism rather than reason. I find it indeed a blunt mistake to take the right to do so anytime anywhere.

    Your rants may gain sympathy from other frustrates , but remain futile and are way out of place in this initial posting about a server-code update. ‘Nuff said.

    Silence remains golden.

  122. Pingback: The Grid Live » Second Life News for March 18, 2008

  123. aSwede says:

    @112, Blinders Off

    Stating that the goal is world domination will not by itself in any way guarantee that the code that goes into the project is neither good nor scalable. Sad but true. You yourself pointed at Microsoft…

    As I’ve written somewhere else, the code base has had some time to evolve and mutate (I’m sure) and with developers leaving the company and new ones arriving, the task to keep the development steady gets harder and harder. But this you know as well as I do.

    Looking at, for example, what you said about getting speedups from running several sims on the same server and dismissing it with “LOL” I kind of have to wonder how you’re reasoning. The sims running on the same server can share content easier but will have to fight more to get to localized resources like disk and network I/O but as long as it’s actually a proper threaded implementation, inter-sim performance might well go up. With all sims on their own server, you’ll always end up having to request information from the network while crossing sim limits, for example. You cannot share cached information between sims and that might turn into a problem in itself. But that’s just techno babble.

    To me, one of the main issues is that there is hardly no transparency. Information trickles down slowly and things done server side all of a sudden jumps out at us residents. That said, I’m not a supporter of the idea about residents directing the development in more ways than voting for bugs and letting LindenLabs do their own roadmap taking the votes into account. But more information would be good, as always.

    When it comes to disabled and socially handicapped people finding a way to fulfill dreams and themselves in SL, I can only say that it’s a good thing but not something SL or LindenLab should have a responsibility for. I enjoy spending time in SL with the friends I’ve found and I’m sure I’d miss them if SL went away, one way or another, but I can’t lay the responsibility for my relations on LindenLab. I’m the one running my life and I try to look at others the same way. Perhaps I’m unable to relate to the ones you talk about since i have an RL life with friends and social interaction but that’s how i feel.

    Enough people are prepared to pay, what I’d call, a whole lot of money for a service that’s not working too well to be able to do some things I, as a free account user, can’t. This in itself is enough for SL to keep going and LindenLab to stick to their development strategy. If people won’t let go, no matter how mad or frustrated they are, this will go on.

    On a side note, I have very little problems with teleports, chat, group chat and other things people write posts about here. Now it’s more issues with the client freezing but to me its either just to wait a while and it works again, or a relog and all is fine. Perhaps I’m not invested enough to see this as showstopping problems.

  124. Not Impressed ! says:

    Reading all these comments reminds me of the adage
    ” Knowledge is like a river, the deeper it is, the less noise it makes.”

    LL rocks like no other.

  125. Kenny Devoix says:

    @119 WarKirby,
    I am in total agreement there and sadly some of those have been banned before and are back using their initials or differant names. Others refuse to use their SL name because if they did they are afraid of either the fallout or ashamed that others would see how they truely are.

    Its to bad that LL dont require the actual SL name and log in to post on this blog. It would make this blog a much more informative place. I personaly wish that this blog was more strictly moderated as to respect for others and on topic posts..

  126. Ric Mollor says:

    @All who feel that SL is unique, groundbreaking, or a ‘first’

    Many people seem to be totally unaware that there is a long history of virtual worlds that predate Second Life and very possibly provided inspiration to SL’s design.

    Those interested in a little education might want to take a tour of the “Active Worlds” universe. (Clicking on my name in this post links to their homepage)

    As you wander around in this world please take time to consider the following points.

    Active Worlds exited beta testing in 1995.

    The largest server (AlphaWorld) has over 195 MILLION objects. That’s 13,000 sims worth for those who don’t want to do the math. Nearly the size of ALL of Second life.

    It’s easy to find ten year old builds that look every bit as good as what one routinely sees in todays Second Life.

    When touring the ‘builders yards’ it’s common to see items that are identical to many in Second Life. Except that these items were created long before SL was launched.

    Yes, I know that Active Worlds doesn’t have cute customizable avatars, scripted sexual attachments, or an in world economy but please understand that this was created in the mid 90s when the most common form of internet access was dial-up modems on Windows 95 PCs.

    Second Life the first user created world? Propaganda and nothing more!

  127. aSwede says:

    @126

    You post about people not keeping on-topic and banning issues in a thread about a server update? Then I won’t feel ashamed to answer.

    Judging by some of the responses here, not using my inworld name while posting feels very appropriate. I see no point in making myself the target for inworld ad hominem-attacks or simple griefing on account of me writing things in the role of an SL user.

    Sadly, I have no reason to believe that people posting “fix it!!11!!11 its borked!11!!111!!” will behave any better inworld. If I were forced to log in here to write blog comments, I would most likely stop since I’m in SL to have fun and not to fend off people with a grudge against SL and LindenLab.

    And if there was reason for LindenLab to find out who I am, they’d easily do it…

  128. Kenny Devoix says:

    @128
    Point taken about making yourself a target for attacks and griefing and its a very real concern, but will stand by this blog needing stricter moderation.

    I just find it a shame that when ever someone posts a intelligent,well thought out post here that actualy offers constructive critism or says anything other then rant in a childish manner about LL. They get called rah rah boys and the same few blog trolls jump all over them. Its to bad because this blog could be very usefull to keep up with the latest changes and for information, not only from LL but other users as well.

    As it stands now any thread open for comments is taken up by a small minority of the same people who feel its their god given right to rant,rave and vent, who feel the need to totaly disrespect anyone who dares disagree with them and have self appointed theirselves as spokes person for all the residents of SL. LOL now I am ranting and raving, apperantly its infectious.

  129. well, it’s all very well for techies to go nuclear as to the whys and wherefores… i’m just a non-tech-savvy resident who ordinarily thinks the concept and availability of secondlife of itself is incredibly smart. it requires some familiarity and prolly a healthy dose of patience etc inevitably, there will be ‘flaws’, if that’s what they really are. what i find hard is the inability to do what i am obligated to do with/for/to/by other residents when i need to. LL’s hands-off approach to these things makes it the wild west it sometimes looks like at this time. no-one should rule out the incidence of rl regulation of sl, far too much is taken for granted where if these things happened in rl, heads would roll, so to speak. keep up the good work? criticise LL? i honestly don’t yet know, but i’m reasonably sure someone does. 🙂

  130. and um, whats a damned hippo?

  131. Pingback: Second Life Italia Blog » Blog Archive » Aggiornamento dei server - questa settimana tutte le regioni di Second Life verranno riavviate per alcuni minuti

  132. Vivienne says:

    @ 127

    “Active Worlds exited beta testing in 1995.”

    And never managed to release a Mac and a Linux version. Face it, LL got it right, they made this for the Mac in order to attract the major creative part of the computing community, and Linux in order to attract the scripting and experimenting ppl.

    You are right, Active Worlds was a nice attempt, but LL are the pioneers in many, many ways. mySQL is a joke, of course, and so is the extremely buggy client software, but LL earns at least some merits.

  133. Lider says:

    @9 said everything….

    yall should first fix whats bad and then think about addin new stuff….

    its getting worse and worse everytime….

    used to go to other foruns in the past and see people talking about how cool SL was and this and that….today if u go to any forun related all u see its people talking about how bad things are around here….and costumer service?……..bad bad bad…..

  134. Torian says:

    @113 & @121
    Have to agree with you. Most people don’t know how to fine tune their PC or SL. But on the flip side, if your going to be successful you cannot make products only usable by the geeks and techies.
    “Also don’t worry about screwing anything up, it’ll reset itself to the defaults when you relog.”
    Okay.. now is that a bug or a feature??

  135. Cincia Singh says:

    What would be really useful for residents would be if LL would publish a list of what regions will be updated and restarted on which days for these kinds of code updates. This “should” be fairly easy since I “assume” LL has a list of what regions reside on which machines, and LL says they’re restarting after the updated code is installed “in machine order.” Just an idea to consider Joshua ! ! ! ! ! Keep up the good work, ignore the flamers, and please tell your colleagues to fix group IM’s (hehe).

  136. JoeyMacaroni Vella says:

    @135

    Hee hee, I think it’s that way by design, believe me, I played with enough of those controls that if it didn’t reset I would have been in trouble.

    By the way the keystrokes are:
    Ctrl-Alt-D on Windows and Linux
    Cmd-Ctrl-D on a Mac.

    NOTE! There are a few that stay selected even after a relog but the ones I mentioned earlier do not.

  137. Schizm Neutra says:

    *Forgive me this observation… adding the above figures, that makes a current total of what, 17,000 regions? All of them paying between $195 and $350 a month? (Let’s just set the figure at $295).*

    Umm, not sure where you get your figures, but there are some of us who cannot, by any stretch of the imagination–even in SL–pay THAT MUCH for our membership and/or tier fee! I have paid in the past as much as $75 or so, but my circumstances have made that impossible, so now I pay $25 a mo. This covers my tier fee and membership fee on Mainland territory.

    I think what you may be referring to is Island territory or perhaps the ‘Consierge’ deals one gets with Islands, Whole Sim territories or the like.

    I’m SURE there are many of us still on the mainland who don’t pay those higher prices…so what SL makes in the way of fees has to be adjusted lower. Then there are operating expenses–it ain’t cheep to fuel these here servers! Also, they have to pay their bubble-gum chewing telephone answerers out there in Sunny CA, right? I’m also convinced there are a buncha hidden fees that we will never know about–lawyers and the like.

    Kidding…tongue in cheek, it can’t be easy to keep this boat afloat! Let’s just be glad it was never named the Titanic! Hey, if I’m not mistaken they HAVE one of those on SL! *wanders off to look for the Titanic on SL*

  138. Blinders Off says:

    @122 Will: Dude, I’m sure a lot of people here see the irony in your post, but I’m pretty sure it totally eludes you. In your case, I certainly hope “nuff said” is indeed true.

    @124 Aswede: First of all, pleasure chatting with you. I like the thoughtfulnees of your posts. Even if I may not agree with some of the points, an interesting read.

    To answer some of the thoughts: The reason stacking 4 sims to a quad core server wasn’t a good idea has to do with the way SL is designed. The greatest amount of time spent in sim information isn’t in trading information between one another. In fact, the four sims on the box may not even be remotely located in the same virtual area of one another. If someone owns four sims, it doesn’t mean those four sims are going to be on the same server box. SL doesnt’ work that way. Instead, the sims work through asset servers and user interface. Which means that instead of each sim having its own individual hard drive, bus, and network card with no interference from anything else… it has to compete in using those central assets with four other sims. Does this effect sim performance. LL says no. I say that’s total hogwash for four reasons:

    1. I know from professional experience what happens when you share computer resources. A pickup in speed isn’t it.
    2. As any owner of a dual-core computer can tell you, while dual core is nice, two applications running on a dual core dont run nearly as well as if each was running on a single-core unit… especially when it comes time to access the hard drive or video.
    3. I have seen what happens when sims share a server box with a “maxed out” sim as compared with an “open” sim. I know this because we had it happen to us. Our sim was running very, very slowly and we asked LL to check in to it. Come to find out we were sharing a server box with one of the most maxxed out sims on the grid, one known for mega lag. LL switched us to another server box… one with a known low-level sim… and our lag disappeared. Similar reports are common and the experience well known among many sim owners.
    4. I’m not a total idiot who swallows every bit of propaganda a corporation decides to shovel out. I know full well (and LL even admitted) that the primary purpose for switching to stacked servers was to allow Linden Lab to save space and energy usage. It had nothing to do with better performance. So when LL touts that stacking four sims to a server box in their “tests” showed no degradation in performance, I have to call that pure corporate BS.

    Regarding the concept of Linden Lab having no responsibility to people vesting their lives in their systems… to this I disagree. Linden Lab took on that responsibility when they took on the project. The future was foreseeable and predictable. If a guy is going to accept the badge, he bears the responsibility of the badge. Linden Lab set themselves up as a virtual society (in their opinion, THE virtual society) and by doing so, took on some degree of moral and ethical responsibility for their customers. If anyone disagrees, wait until LL makes that truly fatal mistake, and see how the courts decide the class actions lawsuits. That would indicate for a certainty just how responsible Linden Lab is. It’s already widely considered that the TOS wouldn’t stand up 30 minutes in a court of law. So I have to disagree… Linden Lab bears heavy responsibility to its clients to provide a stable environment, no matter how much they may try to declare otherwise. People have become dependant on the SL system, and LL takes full advantage of that dependence. To say they have little or no responsibility in return is, IMO, more of a fantasy than the virtual world they sell.

    @133 Vivienne: Yes, Active Worlds didn’t quite fill the bill, but the points Ric made were valid. Active worlds had a immersive 3-D environement long before SL came along. Unreal and Quake and other 3-D games had internet gaming down pat before SL came along. I will be the first to agree that LL had incredible vision and came out with a unique product, but I think the point Ric was making is that it wasn’t new, “bleeding edge” technology. They had a whole history of companies before them to learn from and build on. Instead of examining successful computer concepts and decades of experience, LL constantly makes knee-jerk decisions such as requiring a user to enter 3 characters of a name before it will do a search (duh… which nostril did they pull that one out of?).

    I will fully agree with you that LL earns some merit. I will agree that it is unique in the area of virtual worlds (for the time being). No argument there. But does that entitle them to sell a shoddy product at premium prices? Naw. Foreseeably suicidal company stance that if anything has prevented virtual growth.

    What? Prevented virtual growth? Yeah prevented. After 8 years of operation, one would think Second Life would not be limited to a mere 17,000 sims for which they charge $295 a month each. If LL had really been on the ball, had really been visionary, by now there could have been hundreds of thousands of sims operating at $50 to $100 a month. Linden Lab has prevented that from happening. That’s why when people say that the company needs some adult leadership… they’re not too far off the mark.

    And for all those clowns up there who are complaining abou the complainers… LOL. Step back and take a look at yourselves. Do you even realize how ludicrous you’re sounding?

    I agree these blogs are not the best place to discuss such things. Linden Lab used to have forums. Guess which company messed up that idea? No hints….

    Maybe I live in a dream world, I dunno. In my opinion, a computer company that offers basically a service-oriented, entertainment-based product should have a feedback and support site. They should have a functioning (and yes properly MODERATED) forum. They should be very responsive to customer complaints and bugs should have a 72 hour moratorium where possible (especially after 8 years of operation). When there is a bug, users shouldn’t have to wade through a ton of solid technobabble (JIRA… even the name is unfriendly.. what the @$#@# does JIRA stand for anyway. No don’t tell me. I honestly don’t care). When the users want to tell the company about something, there should be a comment page they can go to and do so (even Micro$oft has a feedback page, people). And frankly, after 8 years, the platform should be steady as a rock, and LL should not go off on any new tangents unless the platform IS steady as a rock. (Make sure existing functions are functional first… THEN bring in more toys). Why do I feel this way? Because these are computer industry STANDARDS and have been for decades. And why LL thinks those standards and the experience behind them are totally unimportant is anyone’s guess.

    So as a result, users wind up complaining about major system problems in the public blog. That’s pretty much a no-brainer.

  139. Blinders Off says:

    @ 122 Will: Dude, I’m sure a lot of people here see the irony in your post, but I’m pretty sure it totally eludes you. In your case, I certainly hope “nuff said” is indeed true.

    @ 124 Aswede: First of all, pleasure chatting with you. I like the thoughtfulnees of your posts. Even if I may not agree with some of the points, an interesting read.

    To answer some of the thoughts: The reason stacking 4 sims to a quad core server wasn’t a good idea has to do with the way SL is designed. The greatest amount of time spent in sim information isn’t in trading information between one another. In fact, the four sims on the box may not even be remotely located in the same virtual area of one another. If someone owns four sims, it doesn’t mean those four sims are going to be on the same server box. SL doesnt’ work that way. Instead, the sims work through asset servers and user interface. Which means that instead of each sim having its own individual hard drive, bus, and network card with no interference from anything else… it has to compete in using those central assets with four other sims. Does this effect sim performance. LL says no. I say that’s total hogwash for four reasons:

    1. I know from professional experience what happens when you share computer resources. A pickup in speed isn’t it.
    2. As any owner of a dual-core computer can tell you, while dual core is nice, two applications running on a dual core dont run nearly as well as if each was running on a single-core unit… especially when it comes time to access the hard drive or video.
    3. I have seen what happens when sims share a server box with a “maxed out” sim as compared with an “open” sim. I know this because we had it happen to us. Our sim was running very, very slowly and we asked LL to check in to it. Come to find out we were sharing a server box with one of the most maxxed out sims on the grid, one known for mega lag. LL switched us to another server box… one with a known low-level sim… and our lag disappeared. Similar reports are common and the experience well known among many sim owners.
    4. I’m not a someone who swallows every bit of propaganda a corporation decides to shovel out. I know full well (and LL even admitted) that the primary purpose for switching to stacked servers was to allow Linden Lab to save space and energy usage. It had nothing to do with better performance. So when LL touts that stacking four sims to a server box in their “tests” showed no degradation in performance, I have to call that pure corporate BS.

    Regarding the concept of Linden Lab having no responsibility to people vesting their lives in their systems… to this I disagree. Linden Lab took on that responsibility when they took on the project. The future was foreseeable and predictable. If a guy is going to accept the badge, he bears the responsibility of the badge. Linden Lab set themselves up as a virtual society (in their opinion, THE virtual society) and by doing so, took on some degree of moral and ethical responsibility for their customers. If anyone disagrees, wait until LL makes that truly fatal mistake, and see how the courts decide the class actions lawsuits. That would indicate for a certainty just how responsible Linden Lab is. It’s already widely considered that the TOS wouldn’t stand up 30 minutes in a court of law. So I have to disagree… Linden Lab bears heavy responsibility to its clients to provide a stable environment, no matter how much they may try to declare otherwise. People have become dependant on the SL system, and LL takes full advantage of that dependence. To say they have little or no responsibility in return is, IMO, more of a fantasy than the virtual world they sell.

    @ 133 Vivienne: Yes, Active Worlds didn’t quite fill the bill, but the points Ric made were valid. Active worlds had a immersive 3-D environement long before SL came along. Unreal and Quake and other 3-D games had internet gaming down pat before SL came along. I will be the first to agree that LL had incredible vision and came out with a unique product, but I think the point Ric was making is that it wasn’t new, “bleeding edge” technology. They had a whole history of companies before them to learn from and build on. Instead of examining successful computer concepts and decades of experience, LL constantly makes knee-jerk decisions such as requiring a user to enter 3 characters of a name before it will do a search (duh… which nostril did they pull that one out of?).

    I will fully agree with you that LL earns some merit. I will agree that it is unique in the area of virtual worlds (for the time being). No argument there. But does that entitle them to sell a shoddy product at premium prices? Naw. Their company stance has actually prevented virtual growth.

    Yeah prevented. After 8 years of operation, one would think Second Life would not be limited to a mere 17,000 sims for which they charge $295 a month each. If LL had really been on the ball, had really been visionary, by now there could have been hundreds of thousands of sims operating at $50 to $100 a month. Linden Lab has prevented that from happening. That’s why when people say that the company needs some adult leadership… they’re not too far off the mark.

    Ror all those who are complaining abou the complainers… LOL. Step back and take a look at yourselves. Do you even realize how ludicrous you’re sounding?

    I agree these blogs are not the best place to discuss such things. Linden Lab used to have forums. Guess which company messed up that idea? No hints….

    Maybe I live in a dream world. In my opinion, a computer company that offers basically a service-oriented, entertainment-based product should have a feedback and support page. They should have a functioning (and yes properly MODERATED) forum. They should be very responsive to customer complaints and bugs should have a 72 hour moratorium where possible (especially after 8 years of operation). When there is a bug, users shouldn’t have to wade through a ton of solid technobabble (JIRA… even the name is unfriendly.. what does JIRA stand for anyway? No don’t tell me. I honestly don’t care).

    When the customers want to tell the company about something, there should be a comment page they can go to and do so (even Micro$oft has a feedback page, people). And frankly, after 8 years, the platform should be steady as a rock. LL should not go off on any new tangents unless the platform IS steady as a rock. (Make sure existing functions are functional first… THEN bring in more toys).

    Why do I feel this way? Because these are computer industry STANDARDS and have been for decades. And why LL thinks those standards and the experience behind them are totally unimportant and don’t apply to LL is anyone’s guess. Seems like an immature vanity trip to me.

    So as a result, users wind up complaining about major system problems in the public blog. Go figure.

  140. Blinders Off says:

    @ 138 Schizm: Uh, I would understand someone not being aware of SL economy… if it wasn’t you Schizm. You’ve been around a while.

    Second Life currently has (supposedly) 17,000 regions. For those regions, Linden Lab charges between $195 a month (very rare these days) and $350 a month (for Euro users). Most sims lease for $295 a month. If it’s a mainland sim, Linden Lab instead leases out smaller plots, for which they earn a WHOLE LOT more.

    So beyond that, it’s simple math. You’re not sure where I get my figures? Seriously dude?

    From Linden Lab.

  141. Blinders Off says:

    (Oh Schizm, just caught your tongue in cheeker about hidden fees– like lawyers. LOL. OK, you gave me my second good chuckle for the day. LOL)

    (As a side note for those not acquainted with how mainland runs… LL earns far more $$$ renting out smaller plots than they do entire sims. If they can rent sixteen 4096m plots for $25, that’s far more money than one region at $295 a month. Smaller plots than 4096m increase the profit level even further. Lease out 64 1024m plots… hubba hubba kaching.) Which brings us back to the original statement that LL can most likely afford to improve the platform. Myself, I wouldn’t mind raking in $5 million + a month. For that kind of cash, I could probably build a rock solid SL from scratch in a year. LOL

  142. o.h. says:

    “Fix for a rare “I just saw someone else’s IM!?!?!” bug”

    what the…
    i never saw this, but… no comment…

  143. Paullo says:

    A thought: since the preferences button has been removed how are we meant to do this, any ideas?:
    Update 7:28 PM PST Logins may also be affected. If you are having difficulty with login, please attempt to login to a different region.

  144. Blinders Off says:

    Paulo, I believe you can access a sim by using its HTTP address (or visiting the EVENTS page and clicking in from any event).

    And I agree, removal of that prefernces button just seems to be one of those duh things.

  145. Sim Stacking basics says:

    It was recently noted that the memory limit for a sim was around 500 MB. That’s right. New car prices for a half gig of ram!!

  146. Paullo says:

    thanx Blinders… not very practical tho is it

  147. Sean Heying says:

    Preferences is still available from the Edit menu up the top of the login screen, or press Ctrl-P. Then on the General Tab you can tick “Show Starting Location”

  148. les says:

    Quick! Two more slots left. Enough room for more trite condescending BS!

  149. WiLLuMPJuH Gausman says:

    Nope.. one more.. ;P

  150. WiLLuMPJuH Gausman says:

    It’s over .. for now .. yay !!! 😀

Comments are closed.