559 Havok4 Early Adopter regions updated with 11 fixes – RC1 of the new Second Life Simulator

Quick Status

The Havok4-based Second Life simulator v1.19.1.82411 has been deployed 559 Early Adopter regions. This version resolves a set of 11 issues listed in the March 14th post describing the recent Havok4 Beta Preview Update. Due to the nature of these fixes, we wanted to allow for some extra test time on the Beta Preview.

Sneak Peek: Upcoming Issue Resolutions that are completed in the next release (…so that you know which items have already been fixed internally, and in the pipeline for our next deploy – but remember the following items are not included in the this update!)

We have another build that is in testing that is not deployed yet, containing fixes for the following issues. Please note – I’m providing this as advance information so that you know which open issues we have already fixed. They are not, however fixed in the version that we are deploying tonight.

DEV-12031: llSetForce energy refill bug reintroduced (“held our noses” and reintroduced a bug that we had fixed in the Havok4-based simulator, in order to avoid breaking some earlier products that we could not fix by alternate scripting methods)

SVC-1281: Swimmer 1.1 by Siggy Romulu now works

SVC-1701 (Won’t Finish): Diving board still launches too high (This is a non-fix… one example of a product that was highly tuned for a behavior in Havok1 that has changed a bit… that we have no reasonable way to fully emulate. The diving board works, but the lift height is significantly higher than in Havok1-based simulators. Although we have worked hard to maintain compatibility where we can, it is not always possible. I am including this bug as an example of the few compatibility issues that might be found as we convert to the Havok4-based simulator for the rest of Second Life. There have been very few of these raised so far, but I expect that there are some more out there lurking..)

SVC-1721: Avatar now correctly enters falling mode when walking off the edge of a platform

DEV-11984: Large spheres no longer get stuck to other objects after being dragged across them

DEV-12137: Terrasport parachute ground collision detection now working

SVC-1261: Avatar no longer slides slowly down sloped terrain

Best regards,

Sidewinder Linden
Havok4 Program Manager

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50 Responses to 559 Havok4 Early Adopter regions updated with 11 fixes – RC1 of the new Second Life Simulator

  1. Re: “SVC-1281: Swimmer 1.1 by Ziggy Romulus now works”

    I believe that should say Siggy Romulu, not Ziggy Romulus.

  2. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @1 SuezanneC: Oops thanks for catching that. /Sidewinder

  3. RodneyLee says:

    Pssst! how about the over lapping Prims when using the Copy/wand on Hollow prims, that a good one to fix one of these days…..

    Tested with this release… nadda its still Broke

  4. Lionel Oliva says:

    I can’t wait to get my tank to explode Havok4 style 😀

  5. Wolfie Waves says:

    Yay, I see the bug where llMoveToTarget() worked fine on avatars but not at all on objects has been fixed. Just one thing I’m curious about, how come this update didn’t include the 1.19.2 update that is currently bring rolled out to the none Havok4 regions? I was looking forward to testing out scripted glow on our lights in Stargate Command, Eternal Calm.

    Anyways, either way this is yet another great H4 update ^.^

  6. Darien Caldwell says:

    My sim is dying now with this update 😦

  7. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @5 Wolfie: There are many server-side projects running in parallel at the moment, and beta projects do not cross-merge every fix “down to the wire” of deploying a new beta release. Each time we stop to build and have our version QA tested, there is still work going on in both the release and other simulator projects – work that sometimes hits the finish line before we have finished QA and our “cooking period” on the Beta Preview – thus sometimes we will not have some lower priority fixes that might show up in release. We pick them up in the next build, and as you’ve seen if there are any top priority exploits or other fixes, we’ll at that point do a special build to be sure that the Early Adopters include them. Thanks! /Sidewinder

  8. Pingback: Havok 4 Regions updated with 11 fixes at Daikon Forge

  9. Wolfie Waves says:

    @7 Sidewinder
    Yeah that is true but I was just curious 🙂
    Can’t wait to see H4 go live to the whole of the grid. Our region has not crashed once since we joined the EA program, and believe me, we have tried :p

    I can see a lot of the whiners out there quieting down once this goes live ^.^

  10. Vittorio Beerbaum says:

    I’m not sure this is related so H4 or whatever, but im experiencing the “autophantom feature” now… linkset are phantoming themself for no reason, and plus if i unlink the linkset each prim is phantom and you can’t do anything, taking the object in the archive and rezzing it again > it remains phantom! I were lucky to have a working copy otherwise i would have lost 2 days of work.

  11. Blinders Off says:

    Heya Sidewinder. Regarding the Large Prims thing we discussed last blog: tested them and reporting as promised. The hollows work GREAT. Woot! Good job! We can now walk inside a large, hollowed out large prim. That has major potential for large, low-prim builds. THANKS. They still can’t be altered to any size from the original, but at least this gives us some workable cut options. : ) Would still love to see total implementation of up to 256m prims… but for now, this is a terrfic mid-way function.

  12. Balpien Hammerer says:

    Wow, H4 used to have a noticle difference in hover height (it was a bit lower). I adjusted things to split the difference, bit now with the latest changes the hover height is so much lower than H1 that my boat now is 2/3 underwater? Can you explain what was changed WRT vehicle hover and perhaps effciency?
    Thanks

  13. Pingback: Havok 4 Update « Sean Heying’s Blog

  14. Pingback: The Grid Live » Second Life News for March 20, 2008

  15. Elvis Orbit says:

    Update went well and all is working great. Same with me I have nit had a sim crash since I have had Havok 4 put on my region. The future looks bright. 😀 Great job guys!

  16. Balpien Hammerer says:

    I’ll file a jira report but the SIM info for my hover problem, #12, is:
    Second Life 1.19.0 (5) Feb 28 2008 17:18:12 (Second Life Release)

    You are at 228444.9, 275896.7, 77.8 in Mystica located at sim1062.agni.lindenlab.com (8.4.129.212:13006)
    Havok4 Beta Server 1.19.1.82411

    CPU: Intel Core 2 Series Processor (1794 MHz)
    Memory: 3070 MB
    OS Version: Microsoft Windows Vista Service Pack 1 (Build 6001)
    Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation
    Graphics Card: GeForce 8600M GT/PCI/SSE2
    OpenGL Version: 2.1.1
    LLMozLib Version: 1.1.0 (Mozilla GRE:1.8.0.12_0000000000)
    Packets Lost: 410/384769 (0.1%)

  17. Blinders Off says:

    @ 9 Wolfie: For the record, people who complain about SL funcitonality aren’t “whiners”. They’re customers with legitimate complaints regarding not getting what they’re paying for. And I think they deserve a little more respect.

  18. Whisper says:

    One hopes that megaprims as is will not be supported at all in H4. The only prims that should be supported are prims able to be generated in the editor. Nothing else. If larger sizes are being supported by build tools then fine. Nothing else is acceptable.

    As for sim sized and above, there should be server side routines to detect and eliminate these abominations from the grid on rez, it should be trivial to roll code out now to do this. God alone knows why this has not been done.

  19. Loco Rau says:

    Sidewinder, the large XL and XXL Sharks from ee Oh are working now 🙂 But Heps scuba bouyancy control not 😦

  20. Loco Rau says:

    and Terra SportIII parachute only works as expected if first you fly and move flying when skydiving ??

  21. Hu says:

    @19 Whisper:
    Why would you want to do that? What’s your beef with megaprims? They are a great way to reduce prim usage when done well. I would have to use hundreds more prims to do what I’m doing with a single megaprim.

    I would raise bloody hell if they were deleted, especially without consent.

    The fact that megaprims behave *correctly* when they arent even officially supported by LL is awesome and a testament to the thoughtfulness of Sidewinder and the rest of the H4 team.

    If you don’t want to deal with megaprims, fine, then don’t go to sims with them, but stop advocating ruining other peoples’ work.

  22. HD Pomeray says:

    @ Sidewinder:
    Haven’t had a chance to test it really good yet but I did take a quick ride around the sim this morning. Not sure if you changed things from the v1.19.1.82355 that was in the beta grid to the v1.19.1.82411 that was deployed in the early adopters or if it just works totally different on the main grid than it does in the beta grid, but, all the improvements that we felt in beta aren’t there in the main grid now. Handling WAS great in beta…. no improvements in the sim… still taking flight with the tiniest bump and now …. If you try to go over a prim jump you get embedded into it and stuck. Basically I think it’s gotten worse. I’ll do more testing and write a more inclusive report latter today but for now, it’s a sad day in SLurgis.

  23. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @11 Blinders: Thanks – glad you like the results! /Sidewinder

  24. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @19 Whisper: The megaprim question has been discussed in open forums for six months, including many office hours, and the resulting conclusions published repeatedly:

    Megaprims up to 256m on a side (256m x 256m x 256m) that already exist will be allowed to remain in existing builds. Megaprims over that size will be automatically trimmed to that size when the Havok4 simulator initializes. The Havok4-based simulator release will not add or enhance existing tools to creeate or handle megaprim sized prims in any fashion that did not exist before the release.

    /Sidewinder

  25. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @20 Loco: I suspect that the swimmer fixes that we have already done for the next build will help the HEPS scuba gear. If you get a chance it would be helpful to re-test on the Beta Preview when the next simulator version is deployed there for testing. Thanks, Sidewinder

  26. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @21 Loco: The Terrasport III behavior sounds like it may be a different bug. Would you please contact me in-world so that we can discuss the full behavior of this product, and be sure that all of the relevant issues are documented? Thanks, Sidewinder

  27. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @23 HD: I will check that to be sure later this morning… That should be the same code base from the bike perspective. Does your region image on the Beta Preview still behave correctly (that has not been touched as far as I know from the time that you tested it)? Sidewinder

  28. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @23 HD: By the way, let me clarify a bit… the deploy to Second Life was supposed to be *exactly* the same code base as the version you tested on the preview, with the version number updated (due to an internal sequencing issue the build number had not been fully updated on the preview). I am quite puzzled by your findings for that reason and will research it. /Sidewinder

    P.S. I just did a quick ride around part of Lil Sturgis 1 on the main Second Life system, and to the “uneducated rider” it certainly seems like the new code to me… faster, smoother, banking around tight turns does not lay down farther than about 60 degrees (at least the turns I tried). Please contact me directly in-world to figure out what’s up. I wonder if this could have been due to something else going on with the system at the time that you tested?

  29. Very Keynes says:

    I had a very strange situation when I tested earlier with my boat, in that all was well till I crossed into the H4 Sim, then despite the Frame rate showing as 24FPS I was experiencing only one or 2.
    I crossed back and all was fine. Then I had a friend join me, crossed into H4 again, and had the same issue, but from his perspective we were sailing along as smoothly as before the crossing.
    I will try again later in, case it was line issues (I am in Africa and the under sea cable often gets congested at this time of day), but as I had no issues any where else on the grid I wondered if it may be indicative of a client side issue.
    Will contact you in world if it persists later.

  30. Blinders Off says:

    @ 19 Wolfie: I’m not sure whether you’re serious or just posting to see what buttons you can push. Advocating total removal of megaprims is a very unbalanced view… and based on what? All you stated was an opinion without any data or facts to back it up. Megaprims are great. If Linden Lab fully implemented megaprims up to 256m in size, you would see glorious builds the likes of which have never been present on Second Life. So I find it difficult to belive you’re acutally serious in your suggestion they be totally remove. That just makes no sense whatsoever unless you’re just trying to be cute. If that’s not the case, I’d like to hear your reasons for proposing such an unbeneficial step.

    @ Sidewinder: As you know, I’m about as pro-megaprim as they come and for good reason. But I am VERY happy to hear that the Havok 4 implementation will resize anything over 256m. The “giant prims” have been the primary source of any griefing that has gone on (if any). For a certainty, megaprims over 256m in size have little if any application on Second Life. So kudos to LL on this decision. I don’t mean this as a backhanded compliment, but that’s a very logical and practical decision to come out of the Lab. Hope to see many more like it. 🙂

  31. HD Pomeray says:

    @Sidewinder:
    I’m at my RL office now where my PC is barely able to run SL so I can’t do much further testing until latter tonight at which time I’ll spend considerable time doing so. This morning when I tested it from home, on my gamming rig, it was really weird. The handling was stiff and jittery… if I came in contact with a vertical piece of land I climbed up it very quickly and was shot into the air. When I attempted to go over a jump the front end of the bike would embed into the prim that makes up the jumps and would get stuck in it. I was only in there for about 5 minutes because I was on my way out to work but I was very disappointed because I thought it was going to handle just like the bats grid.

    OK … so … let’s assume it is the same image as the beta grid…

    What are the variables:

    1. The Track in Slurgis is made up of prims were as in the beta grid I was testing in a sand box on perfectly flat ground. That could have a lot to do with it.

    2. The ramps I was using in beta were made of a wedge shaped prim where as the ones in Slurgis are flattened boxes tilted up to make the Ramp.

    3. In the beta grid I’m using the viewer that gets me into that grid where as on the main grid I’m running 1.190 (5). Could the viewer affect it?

    I did go back into Slurgis just now from here and replaced the ramps with the same type used to test in the beta grid and found that I was not getting stuck into them now. Could there be a problem with Box prims? If there is then that would explain a lot as all of the roads are made up of box prims. Also… I have a picture from the beta grid where paeoti was riding and ran into a building. She was embedded into the wall. I’ll have her send that to you in world in a few minutes. Thanks for your continued support Sidewinder. I know you guys have a LOT on your plates with this and all of the other projects you have going on. My RL job is not a lot different so I can relate. I think I was expecting everything to be “Fixed” and life would be good. LOL… I can see it’s a lot more complicated than most of us can see or give you credit for. I’ll have more patients. 🙂

    Thanks again,
    HD

  32. Ryu Darragh says:

    Sidewinder, I would hope that creation of specific sizes of large prims will be allowed at some point. Perhaps not for all shapes of prims (torii would be nice, but could be built around), but definitely for cylinders, spheres and cubes.

  33. HD Pomeray says:

    @Sidewinder:
    Guess I can’t get you those pictures … took them in the beta grid so they are not in her inventory in the main grid

    can she send them to you in the Beta Grid ?

    HD

  34. Hu says:

    @25 Sidewinder (re. megaprims):
    That is a relief to hear! I think that older complaints about megaprims, when they are used and not abused, are unfounded. LL seems to have a consensus per your post, but is there any chance of codifying that, so megaprims don’t suddenly become verboten on a whim?

  35. Hu says:

    @34:
    You *should* be able to open the image in the beta viewer, do File > Save Texture As, save to your hard drive, and re-upload to the main grid.

  36. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @HD: Could you please contact me in-world or via email about the specifics? I have put last night’s image of LIL Sturgis 1 on the Beta Preview as well so that you can try it there on that code deploy. Regards, Sidewinder (P.S. sidewinder (at) lindenlab.com for detailed discussion via email

  37. Pingback: More Havok 4 Fun « From The Trenches…

  38. @Sidewinder – Thanks to some keen observations by Darien Caldwell, we may have more information about the C:SI weapons breaking, and it appears quite possible that it’s not directly related to Havok 4 (yay!), but now I don’t know how to follow up : http://www.daikonforge.com/webtab/2008/03/19/havok-4-regions-updated-with-11-fixes/

    It is still true that we see the problem more (and much more frequently) in Havok 4 regions than elsewhere, so any thoughts you have would be very much appreciated.

    Oh, and btw : Kudos on the progress!

  39. Belos Seiling says:

    Interesting this with the megaprims, too bad I wasn’t able to find out where the discussions have been taking place – still;
    I do understand the reduction of maximum size – but is there anyone who can tell me if the megaprims will become editable within limits?
    That would become a huge primsaver for all builders.
    Imagine a 20 by 20 m roof, being only 0,2m thick, instead of having to use four 10 by 10.

  40. Whisper says:

    Sidewinder, as I stated *if* the build tools are able to create large prim sizes, *and* full physics properties are supported in H4 then it’s all good, however h1 *failed* to handle even rezzing an object on one so despite the claim that some residents make of relying upon them, the underlying software to support them fully has not been realized as far as i can see.

    Further, the argument that megaprims are indeed essential in builds to reduce prim usage fails to address prim usage on the other side of the equation where small sized builds are not advantaged by megaprims in any way shape or form.

    So effectively you are asking the community to support a small vocal minority.

    Once again, if it can be created by the build tools it’s all good.

    As for “breaking content”, please explain how using prims how linden labs intended them to be used (and presumably the software engineers) breaks content.

    Wasn’t the person who exploited the viewer flaw that enabled them to be created perma banned btw?

  41. LouRavi Karas says:

    I am the creator of the HEPS Scuba diving equipments, and i have found whats different … I only take controls of the PGup & PGdown to set the buoyancy of the stab jacket. Other controls are not taken. On the Havock 4 Beta, only the rot right and rot left are effective, forward and back are stuck. As the object is physic, if i take control of Back/Forward and apply an impulse or a force, it works. But this solution is not easy… So, now the question is : is it normal that the Fwd Back controls are stuck if i take control of Up/Down. And they are only stuck if in water, when touching bottom of the sea, on the sand, it works… regards

  42. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @39 Takuan: The theory about bad data return (or corrupted notecards) certainly makes some sense. I noticed in the other blog threads some commentary about setting properties of linked prims, and wondering if they “didn’t exist” at the time of the operation running. I haven’t seen the code, but is it perhaps possible that your code makes assumptions about the speed that linked prims rez or the sequence that they will appear, and that on Havok4 the timing is subtle but different and they actually don’t appear “in time” once in a while? This is just a complete guess, but I thought I’d toss it out there in case you can see in your code some cases where it relies on sequencing of events that might not be guaranteed… Hope this helps, Sidewinder

  43. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @40 Belos: Discussions on megaprims have happened in several of the blog posts about the Havok4 project over the last six months, as well as I believe a completely separate post about megaprims some months ago, and in numerous office hours about the Havok4 project that have been held twice weekly throughout the process.

    “I do understand the reduction of maximum size – but is there anyone who can tell me if the megaprims will become editable within limits?”

    No additional tools for manipulating, modifying or creating megaprims will be added as part of this project. We are supporting the existence of in-world megaprims since they have become a key part of many region builds, yet placing some limits on them to prevent some forms of blatant griefing and abuse.

    /Sidewinder

  44. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @41 Whisper:
    “the underlying software to support them fully has not been realized as far as i can see”

    Yes, we have explicitly stated many times that megaprims are not fully supported, because from many angles the related features and controls have not been implemented.

    “Further, the argument that megaprims are indeed essential in builds to reduce prim usage fails to address prim usage on the other side of the equation where small sized builds are not advantaged by megaprims in any way shape or form.”

    Just because small builds do not necessarily use them does not imply that large builds do not use them. In addition, there are smaller builds that do use megaprims in various places, including as platforms to reduce prim usage.

    “So effectively you are asking the community to support a small vocal minority.”

    I do not understand this statement. We are not asking the community to support anything with this clarification of the behavior of the Havok4-based simulator. We are stating that:
    * we do not fully support megaprims as a feature
    * we recognize that they have become integrated as a crucial part of some builds, and provide a useful function to others
    * rather than knowingly destroying existing builds with a server update, we have chosen to create a limited capacity that enables significant-sized megaprims to persist
    * we are not providing any additional tool enhancements that will enable creation, special manipulation or other megaprim features with the Havok4-enabled simulator

    Regards,

    Sidewinder

  45. Burgess Miles says:

    Since there is nowhere but here to let once voice be heard I have to use this space… Friends online on the SL website haven’t worked for quite some time, says there’s no friends online even when there are. Any plans to correct this?

  46. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @46 Burgess: I’ve been talking with folks internally about this as I’ve noticed it repeatedly as well… It’s known but I don’t know of an ETA for when it will be resolved… I’ll go check again to see what is going on with the issue. Thanks for the reminder. /Sidewinder

  47. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @38 Darien: (also posted as followup on your blog)

    Hey Darien – thanks for that find… We’ve found the source of the problem and have a fix that will be in the next update, which I hope to get to the Beta Preview soon. As it turns out, there are some “interesting choices” in terms of programming in that “part”, and some changes that the scripter could make that could further improve it’s efficiency. The core issue that you’ve reported was due to one function being called repeatedly that we were not handling very efficiently in the simulator. We have found an optimization that makes that call 40x or so faster, so it ought to be much better in the new build. Thanks again for letting us know about the issue. I’ll talk to the vendor about the other possibilities for future updates/products.

    Regards,

    Sidewinder

  48. Darien Caldwell says:

    Thanks for the information, Sidewinder. 🙂 A 40x improvement sounds like a worthy advancement. Can you do that for all the other calls now? 😉 (j/k)

  49. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @49 Darien: Umm… Dunno about promising that one! 🙂 /Sidewinder

    P.S. I just posted a blog about updating the beta preview. That fix is in there so you can check it on any region that is “Havok4 Beta Server” in “Help > About Second Life”. The Havok1 and Mono regions there also have distinctive ground textures.

  50. Burgess Miles says:

    Thanks Sidewinder for the quick reply even though my entry was decidely off topic! Friends online still doesn’t work btw. My recent experience of SL – and I have many friends who would concur – is that lag, rezzing failures, logg off while porting, frozen viewers, more lag and over all performance of SL have become increasinglt bad over the last month or two. SL performed like a smooth dream in December and January and have since become worse and worse. I am running SL on a fairly state of the art comp and fast and steady connection speed. It’s something in SL that’s not entirely heatlhy. I wish that these issues would be explained, and recognised, in a plain, everyday – non technical – language…

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