Mono Beta Refresh 5

The Mono regions on the beta grid were updated with new binaries today that resolve the following issues:

*SVC-1341 Empty loop sim stall
*SVC-1766 Event handlers taking keys do not work
*SVC-1772 Assigning literal value to key exception
*SVC-1811 if (key) causes uthread injector failure
*SVC-1483 POST is broken
*SVC-1345 llReleaseCamera uti failure
*SVC-1697 Dataserver request test fail
*SVC-1770 key assign with global causes script to fail
*SVC-1776 Comparing key gives exception or uti error
*SVC-1691 System.ArgumentException in conversion input
*SVC-1694 GET causes mono exception
*SVC-1777 money event does not receive key of giver
*SVC-1707 Key causes invalid IL exceptions

Apologies for missing the Mono office hour yesterday. We hope to see you at the office hour in Sandbox Goguen MONO on the beta grid on Friday at 3PM and next Wednesday at 8AM.Thank you again for the great response to the Mono beta and for your continued support.

About babbagelinden

Software Engineer at Linden Lab
This entry was posted in Bugs & Fixes, Preview Grid, Scripting and tagged . Bookmark the permalink.

32 Responses to Mono Beta Refresh 5

  1. Hiro says:

    Mono Meta Issue
    https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-1276

    Does this mean only 1 more issue to for the mono to be 100% compatible with the current LSL?

    So when will this go into the Early Adoptor stage?
    Give us a rough guess! ๐Ÿ˜‰

  2. Xugu Madison says:

    It means only one more issue is known about currently.

    That said, that’s fairly fantastic progress, so I’d imagine we’d be looking at a early adoptor stage mid-April (but I’m no Linden).

  3. Creem says:

    The “meta” issue just links to all of the other Mono issues. Rest assured, there are still plenty of bugs, including non-looping sound playback being broken. =P

  4. Vincent Nacon says:

    geez.. I didn’t even notice any more bugs this whole week. So I’m wondering how do they keep finding them? O_o Isn’t it good enough already? I can’t wait to have them on the main grid already.

  5. Wolfie Waves says:

    Nice to hear that work on Mono is going well, and… I just noticed a little smiley face right at the bottom of the blog hehe ๐Ÿ™‚

  6. Periapse Linden says:

    As Creem says, the meta JIRA has links to all Mono issues:
    https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-1276
    You can see the resolved issues linked in the left column, and the still unresolved issues (a much smaller column!) on the right.

    The purpose for this beta is to achieve the best compatibility between the LSL2 and Mono VMs. Our current milestone doesn’t include taking Mono to the Main Grid. Instead we are discussing, internally and with residents, what the next milestone should be. Should we start a drive to get Mono on the Main Grid? Or should we add some enhancements first (several being considered)? Or should we shift to working on improving the simulator scheduling strategies? There are arguments for all these, and if you’d like to join the discussion please come to one of the office hours listed on the Mono Beta FAQ page:
    https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Mono_beta_FAQ
    Much thanks to all the residents who have been testing Mono, finding bugs, and contributing to the discussion on our future course.

  7. Mono 5! Wow, neat.

    On the other hand, this was my recent BLOG POST ๐Ÿ™‚

    The Fallen Angels of Second Life

    Today I would like to turn my attention to something many of you are probably not aware of. But before I start, you will need to understand the term “angel” in this context.

    An “angel” in many software company’s, especially gaming company’s, are people that provide needed startup capital, even before the product is proven or gone into production.

    The amazing part of today’s requiem is that Second Life had their own “angels”, yet according to Linden Lab, they matter little any longer to them.

    You see, during the Beta Process of Second Life, and before Linden Lab could go “Gold”, they asked their Beta Players to do something extraordinary. Not to find more bugs, or help decode this or that, instead, Linden Lab, in a personnel plea from CEO Philip Rosedale, asked that the Beta Players buy LIFETIME Accts., to help Linden Lab raise SEED MONEY so they could go GOLD.

    Many of those Beta Players answered that call back then, and were presented with an acct., that gave them 4096 sq meters of free tier and $500l a week. Back then, there wasn’t any differing support channels, so these “angels” weren’t given a choice between LifeTime Support or what they were offered.

    Today, these “Angles” are known as Charter Members, you can see that in their Profile on the General Tab, and while it seems Linden Lab has forgotten their efforts to bring Second Life into GOLD, I only hope the Second Life Community won’t. Many of these “Angels” not only bought ONE Lifetime Acct., but multiple accts., and that’s a very big step of Faith, as Aunty Robin says.

    It saddens me though, that the Charter Members aren’t granted the same attention to support as say someone who came later, but paid out more. Linden Lab got an $8,000,000 gift early into Production, and I would imagine if that person wanted an acct, Island, and personal helper, Linden Lab would give him all that for free. This is the part that saddens me, that the first givers in Second Life have been forgotten, over the big givers. If it weren’t for the First Angels, there wouldn’t have been any Second Angels to follow them. Perhaps Linden Lab should remember that?

    Here’s to those Fallen Angels of Second Life, if you see one, thank them, because Linden Lab has forgotten their sacrifice.

  8. Sedary Raymaker says:

    Please stop spamming, Bob. I felt some sympathy when I read the first copy. Seeing the third copy just annoys me.

  9. Crystal Falcon says:

    Quoting Periapse Linden, “Should we start a drive to get Mono on the Main Grid? Or should we add some enhancements first…?”

    /me giggles, isn’t Mono on the Main Grid the BIG enhancement???

  10. Blinders Off says:

    Excuse me posting this HERE instead of HERE:
    http://blog.secondlife.com/2008/03/13/your-chance-for-a-shop-in-luna-oaks-galleria-or-busy-bens-vehicle-lot/

    but the above link for some knee-jerk reason has comments CLOSED. (When are you Lindens ever gonna learn? Talk about flippin’ paranoid…)

    So, as a heads up to those who are suckered in to the “free” merchant land at Luna and Bubba’s Car Lot (or whatever the name)… be aware that this “free” offer WILL require you to be a PREMIUM member.

    Remember it’s Linden Lab. Trust nuthin’.

    Layin’ it on the line, as usual. Would be nice if we didn’t have to.

  11. Blinders Off says:

    And Bob Blunderfield (appropriate name I think) this is the THIRD blog on which you have posted that “Angels” rant. Maybe ya need to take some meds, guy.

  12. Partington Gould says:

    @ #10 Blinders.
    Comments Off makes no sense in an announcement about the lot lottery I agree, but you mention those “suckered in to the โ€œfreeโ€ merchant land at Luna and Bubbaโ€™s Car Lot (or whatever the name)โ€ฆ be aware that this โ€œfreeโ€ offer WILL require you to be a PREMIUM member”.

    Where the Blog post says “The Busy Ben and Luna lottery are open to both premium and basic Residents.”

    I’m not a Premium member and have had a spot on Busy Bens (not Bubba’s – read the blog, it tells you the name), since the last lottery. I’ve re-applied this time. I don’t feel I’ve been suckered.

    So’ I’m not sure what you base your opinion on about people being suckered or where you find your info about Premium account, but both appear wrong.

    Thanks

  13. TaraLi Jie says:

    I’m voting here, as I don’t get on the beta grid, for the option of moving Mono onto the main grid as soon as possible – not for the speed-up in scripts, but for the possibility of lag reduction. Enhancements to LSL2 (that suggestion for being able to tell where on a prim it’s touched, perhaps?) can wait a bit.

    Improving Simulator Scheduling should be a much larger progect, and probably shouldn’t be concerned *JUST* with the area of scripts. I know threading really isn’t that big of a help, as the SIMs each run on one core to themselves, but the SIMs are doing a lot of work, and perhaps some code clean-up/optimization could be done, too?

  14. Phantom Ninetails says:

    Excellent, scripts don’t crash when comparing keys anymore.. However, if(key) will always return false, which is different from the old VM’s behavior of returning true, so some vehicles still have trouble initializing.. And for the rest that work, another new bug has come with the new server version that prevents control events from working. As soon as a control event is fired, the script crashes. I’ll be creating a jira on the key issue shortly, but control has one now: SVC-1825

  15. Very Keynes says:

    Rather than “should we add some enhancements”, I personally think this would be a good time to fix some of the older bugs that people are NOT using as hacks. The main one that comes to mind, and as you have to rewrite both compilers for MONO, should be fairly easy to address, is llGetFreeMemory(). I donโ€™t think that fixing it will break many existing scripts too badly – though with the ingenious scripters out there who knows what they have done to get around it. But it would enhance a lot of future scripts and alleviate a lot of the stress over data storage (or lack there of) and script memory limits.

  16. Periapse Linden says:

    Crystal, TaraLi — is Mono the BIG enhancement? Maybe so, and we are certainly leaning toward pushing this out onto the Main Grid as the next step. However I want to be clear that it isn’t quite so obvious an immediate win as it is with, say, Havok4. An improved physics engine in the simulator gives immediate benefit, because all physics runs through it. But the benefits of Mono in terms of lag reduction or simulator fps depend on how many scripts in the region have converted over to Mono. We’ve discussed this a lot at office hours, and there is no “automatic conversion to Mono” that doesn’t break a lot of content. So the win for Mono comes gradually as more and more LSL programmers release Mono versions of their scripts.

    Phantom — thanks for SVC-1825 and SVC-1827 (good reproes in both)

    Very — It’s hard to determine what LSL2 idiosyncrasies can be safely standardized or fixed. There are many scripts that have now come to depend on such quirks. We can, however, ensure that Mono behaves more regularly. See Babbage’s first office hours and the discussion therein on llGetFreeMemory():
    https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Mono/2008-01-30

  17. Da5id Zsigmond says:

    Re: Periapse Lindens comments re what the next milestone should be.
    My vote would be Fix The JIRA / Bug Reporting / Support system!!!

    I can’t imagine a more inadequate way to get proper bug reporting.
    I’ve given up mentioning the numerous bugs I encounter every day in the main release.

    SL as an application faces a number of inherent challenges as well as the ones SL makes for itself. Start with a really demanding application that will take about as much horsepower as you can provide it – connect it to the web – and then implement it on as many different hardware/OS platforms as you can imagine. If you’re a masochist you might add a half dozen different release versions. There is inherently no way to debug it until you release it fully.

    The JIRA could and does work for problems that can be related to specific source code issues – stack problems, memory leaks, etc.. For the VAST MAJORITY of SL users its about as obtuse as you can get – must have been designed by an engineer. lol. Get an expert to design a system and you’ll get a system only an expert will use. A frequent problem in user interface design.

    I miss the old bug reporting page – there at least it would take only a minute to mention that hot keys frequently don’t work to change the editing parameters, or that the Release Candidate always crashes – why I haven’t been using it ! It really seems like the JIRA is designed to limit feedback even though I know that’s not the case.

    Some Suggestions.

    – Stop thinking about “Bugs” – users have Problems they want Solved. Sometimes this will be a coding error or problem with program logic within SL itself but probably only in the minority of cases. The support pages are rarely adequate – often incomplete and haven’t been updated in ages. Did you know that despite what it says in the tutorials you have to actually delete some folders to get SL completely uninstalled – at least according to SL Tech support when you actually talk to them.

    – Have bug reporting look at the environment and release being used – its all on the logs so is available information – and then automatically direct the user to the appropriate JIRA/Problem page.

    – When at the JIRA – Some nice big buttons that say GRAPHICS – UI – LSL, etc.. and when you press one you see all the reports for Matching environments and releases – I use Vista so I don’t need to wade through Mac and XP problems.

    – A lot of these reported problems are going to be operational and not bugs at all. (For example, Atmospheric Shaders not being automatically enabled on the release candidate so you only get Classic Clouds until you find this out.) A place where you could easily see similar systems with similar problems will likely often get you a Solution – which is what we really want!

    – If you don’t see a solution for the problem with your Athlon 64 X2 – Vista 32 bit – ATI graphics – Realtech HD Audio sytem after scrolling past all reported issues – THEN you can add a topic with the Big Button! at the bottom (without having to log in to the JIRA seperately please). The situation is really so complex and involves so much feedback at any point in time in SL, that the nuisance variables don’t make the kind of ‘bug’ that one normally encounters with a software application. The important information to gather isn’t – can’t – be as specific but needs to be more statistical. ie. there has been a 25% increase in graphics problems on Mac/Invidia systems. Most likely there is a single problem only a developer level tech can find which is causing a range of different symptoms in different environments.

    – Make it easy to offer and report Solutions when found and create a database of them. I once reported that my script wasn’t listening to chat any more?? It turned out of course that though the camera was zoomed in on the prim my avatar was too far away to be heard. (Blush) There was no way to go to the bug reporting area and withdraw the report – or mention this very simple bit of operational knowledge to other users scratching their heads.

    – a level of automated Problem Prevention is easily available – why can’t the system immediately send an IM when you log on, saying you should update your ATI drivers if you are going to use this release?? There seem to be a number of known problems/solutions that everyone has to find individually after they have problems.

    What we are talking about here is concentrating on Customer Satisfaction on the one hand and simultaneously saving a lot of time and money in the development process at the same time.

    BTW when I went to blog post to check out the Support Navigation Changes … Coming Tomorrow! – I get a 404 Not Found Error – is this just me???? ๐Ÿ™‚

  18. Phantom Ninetails says:

    You’re welcome Periapse, glad to help. However I wasn’t the one who submitted SVC-1825 or it’s reproduction, that credit goes to Creem Pye. ๐Ÿ™‚

    Pleased to see how quickly Mono is coming along lately, much like Havok4.

  19. Crystal Falcon says:

    Mmhmm, yes Periapse, definitely true! ๐Ÿ™‚ But, the sooner it’s available, the sooner that can come to pass, AND, unfortunately, if other “enhancements” are added which don’t work perfectly flawlessly, what do you anticipate occurring?

    We already have a user base that expects new viewers not to function unfortunately, so have learned to avoid new releases. :/

    If Mono receives more “enhancements” with potential additional complexities that have to be sorted out, won’t the social backlash and perception encourage people to not recompile their scripts? ๐Ÿ˜ฆ

    I can already envision the forum threads and inworld discussions comparing LSL vs. Mono and “Should I recompile?” questions. Wouldn’t it be better if the answer to that question is as simple as possible? “Because it is of benefit to you and all of us, may speed your script and may reduce lag” as compared to, well it depends if they get such and such working?

    Unlike Havok, which will benefit everyone despite the users acceptance, Mono implementation is more of a social issue, as the users have to choose to embrace it! ๐Ÿ˜‰ So it has to be promoted and marketed and given perceived value to both the individual and community doesn’t it?

    My worry is trying to “enhance” it will increase the chances of spoiling it, and hope that doesn’t come to pass… ๐Ÿ˜‰

  20. Wolfie Waves says:

    I think the way they currently have it planned is that after mono has been deployed on the main grid for a few months they will turn off the ability to compile new scripts using the old LSL2 compiler and only allow the new mono compiler yet still allowing old LSL2 scripts to run, you just can’t create new LSL2 scripts. Also from the beginning as you are able to choose which compiler you use to compile your script, mono should be set as the default to encourage it’s use.

    That way old items where the creator may have left SL, people still using their products will still be able to use them. Given the benefits of mono such as faster running times and increased memory and less strain on the servers this would make sense. I personally will release updates for all my products with mono recompiled scripts and from that point will cease using the LSL2 compiler all together.

    My final thoughts are that since the mono beta is going soo well on the beta grid LL should soon start the mono early adopter program, this will give people, who maybe never bother going on the beta grid to be able to try out mono and will also give LL a much larger group of people to submit bug reports.

  21. salahzar stenvaag says:

    still not working the *SVC-1483 POST is broken
    ๐Ÿ˜ฆ
    I tested it on ADITI and produced a downgraded version which it is now attached as comment.
    That 40 lines of code compile and run correctly on LSL2, but when running on mono give other error…
    Hope the addition of the script might help in finding out what’s wrong with this MONO.
    …….
    Salahzar

  22. coventina dalgleish says:

    This is a fine creation but totally worthless if you can not keep the asset system working. I am missing such things as personal landmarks to my own island and have an inventory count 50% of what it was 6 hours go. You can add as many improvements to the basic system as you like but unless you make the game usable and stable they will only be memory’s

  23. Blinders Off says:

    @ 12 Partington. Thanks for the update. If what you say is the case, LL has updated their policies. My post was based on experience when I once won this same lottery from LL… and wound up being charged for their “free” lot. Perhaps enough people griped about that to bring about a change in policy.

    I might point out still, that there is some kind of technical difference between a “Basic” and a “Free” member (don’t remember what it is… been too long since I’ve been caught by that one too) but folks might still need a “heads up” in that regard. I hate to say it, but over time I’ve just learned to definitely look LL’s “gift horses” in their mouths… then their hooves, their tails, their ears…

  24. Ronia Shepherd says:

    @ Periapse Linden

    I am running a biz on sl and i am totally not a tekky. Still I would like to understand what Mono is trying to accomplish without having to dig back to the very 1st blog about it.

    I am a frequent reader of the blog and i must say, i totally lost overview about a number of initiatives LL is undergoing. One of which is Mono.

    Wouldnยดt it be a good idea if you add a link to your posts where i can find a PLAIN & SIMPLE explanation about goals & scope of this project? (May be you could ask Torley to write it, hehe)

    Anyhoo, good weekend
    Ronia
    ๐Ÿ™‚

  25. Hiro says:

    @ 24

    Why don’t you just read here?

    https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Mono

    or like

    https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Havok4
    for the overview of Havok4

  26. Balpien Hammerer says:

    Periapse, looking at the two other major projects, WndLight and HAVOC4, you should look to how the HAVOC4 team staged their work. It has been fairly smooth and they ensured a high level of compatibility and heterogeneity to minimize inworld disruptions, something we dearly need nowadays. I see the WindLight project as a total mess because of the lasting damage it does to the inworld experience and the inability for users to revert. Its all or nothing approach is too disruptive.

    So, MONO offers increases simulator efficiency but at the risk of compatibility. You will need to be able to run in a heterogenous grid to perform incremental deployment but unlike a physics engine, in which comptability with existing scripts is high, MONO is a different scripting environment altogether. Do you have the means to permit people to have bimodal scripting? By this I mean either the same script harboring bytecodes compiled to both MONO and legacy LSL, or, dual scripts, one tagged for MONO execution the other tagged for the legacy LSL engine. This comment in your FAQ, though OK for beta testing, will not play well on the main grid: “You will get an “Unrecognized bytecode” error when you rez the object and the sim determines it cannot run the script.” What would be better is to have the system take care of the inner operational differences, not the end user.

    Finally, I prefer to see bugs stamped out before new features arrive.

  27. Phantom Ninetails says:

    @26 Balpien Hammerer, from what I hear they have no current plans to remove the LSL VM, and they will not be converting scripts from the old VM to Mono VM when it goes full scale on the main grid. Current plan is to continue to allow you to compile and run your scripts in either VM (old LSL VM or Mono).

    And as far as I can tell it will be acceptable to have both types of scripts in the same prim.

    http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Mono
    -“Can I keep my scripts running on the old LSL2 VM forever?
    We have no plans to eliminate the LSL2 VM. This will be re-examined after Mono has been live on the Main Grid for a while. But right now it is easier to continue to support LSL2 than to migrate all scripts.”

  28. space rockett says:

    Seems to me like i arrived in one of George A. Romano films โ€œNight Of The Living Deadโ€ people seem happy to let lindens do as they please regardless of the cost to their integrity, I Would like to congratulate Lindens for their amazing brainwashing exercise they call Second Life.I too was a zombie sleeping walking to the Linden tune.No longer !!!
    Wake up people !!!!!

    Space Wide Awake Rockett.

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  30. sam says:

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  31. sam says:

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