Required Viewer Update to 1.19.0 [POSTPONED]

[Update – 2008-03-12]

Based on Resident feedback and our acknowledgment that having more than one supported viewer version in use is beneficial, we’ve decided to push off the date that 1.19.0 will become the oldest supported viewer until the time Second Life 1.19.1 is released – 2-3 weeks from now. We expect 1.19.1 to be the most stable viewer so far, based on our new crash analysis data and focus on getting the crash rate down, but want to make sure that a choice of viewers is available. Once 1.19.1 is released, Residents will be prompted to upgrade, but download links to 1.19.0 will also be provided for users who may experience system compatibility issues.

. . . . . . . . .

After Wednesday, March 12th, the 1.19.0 viewer will be required to access Second Life.

At this time, Residents using older versions of the viewer will be required to download an update when attempting to login.

  • This does not affect the First Look: WindLight viewer, which is based on 1.19.0
  • This does not affect the First Look: Dazzle viewer, which is based on 1.19.0
  • This does not affect the 1.19.1 Release Candidate viewer expected to be available this week for initial testing
  • Custom viewers built from older releases of the source code may be blocked, but only those which are reporting “Second Life Release” as the channel and a pre-1.19.0 version during the login process; a code update/re-compile may be necessary in those cases.

Read on for more details…
We are providing this notice in advance to ensure that all Residents have plenty of time to update, that any potential issues can be sorted out, and so that any facilities such as classrooms with pre-installed Second Life viewers can update in time. Our statistics show that of the production viewers provided by Linden Lab (i.e. not release candidates, first looks, etc), more than 60% of residents have already updated to 1.19.0. Only 10% of residents are still running viewers older than 1.18.5. We hope that this will not cause much of an inconvenience to those Residents running earlier versions.

As of March 5th 2008, the following main distribution channel viewers are supported:

Back in July 2007 with Second Life 1.18.0 we gained the capability to advance the client/server protocols in Second Life without requiring viewer updates. Since then, we have only required updates twice (here, here), in both cases due to security issues. This is in contrast to the roughly monthly required updates prior to July 2007.

We remain committed to making viewer updates optional when possible and requiring mandatory updates as infrequently as possible. Generally, a mandatory upgrade is required when:

  • Security – where use of a viewer puts Residents at risk. Such an issue compelled us to block 1.18.0 and 1.18.1 viewers and issue the 1.18.2(1) update.
  • Support – supporting older viewers puts a burden on our support teams; many issues reported by residents are fixed in newer viewer versions
  • Consistent experience – for example, if we add new permission capabilities or LSL functions, older viewers would be unable to display or compile these; an action could be blocked with no feedback as to why
  • Advancing the platform – to solve certain problems (bugs, scaling, etc) it may be necessary to change or modify the client/server protocols. While we have the capability to support older versions of the viewer with newer versions of the server, this often hinders development or requires server-side inefficiency which we would prefer to limit.

The decision to make Second Life 1.19.0 a required update is not taken lightly. Besides the over 500 issues resolved since the last required update, some of the more compelling reasons include:

  • Improved crash reports and viewer statistics – 1.19.0 introduces a new crash reporting mechanism that will make fixing crashes much easier
  • Support for moderation within group chats – an upcoming feature which requires that all viewers support the new infrastructure, already built into the 1.19.0 viewer
  • Voice support – eliminate problems with mixing voice from older and newer viewer versions
  • Elimination of nuisance exploits – e.g. ability to force users to teleport when profile is opened
  • Require updated QuickTime libraries to avoid security issues
This entry was posted in Announcements & News, Bugs & Fixes, New Releases. Bookmark the permalink.

135 Responses to Required Viewer Update to 1.19.0 [POSTPONED]

  1. Lillie Yifu says:

    This is not good news, after trying the unmodified 1.19, I went back to the Nicholaz version, which is far more stable and less buggy. Just yesterday I helped two people regrade back to 1.19. Nicholaz notes that he will not be able to do a new version of the viewer with his old patches.

    What would be helpful would be to roll forward many of the Nicholaz fixes, and make the development open source, as opposed to open patching. This way when future required updates come, they won’t come at the cost of the contributions that others have made.

    (And being rolled back to Havok1 on our sim isn’t helping my mood either…)

  2. Pingback: The Grid Live » Second Life News for March 6, 2008

  3. Muscrat Jefferson says:

    Would love to try the new viewer! but I was logged out of SL . I recived a Message ” you have been logged out of Second Life by an Administrator your account will not be availible till 08-03-06 10:39:01 PST” what is that all about? Man you guys make sl frustrateing at times!

  4. Is the bug with the friends list not working (continually loading) fixed in 1.19.0 now? It caused me to downgrade back to 1.18.

  5. I am currently running on the 1.19.0 (5) viewer and have suffered the disabling of my ability to set permissions on objects I create or own. I have mentioned this and it is widely talked about on slexchange.com as well as widely ignored on this blog during yesterday’s server restart announcement. So I know this issue of Permissions being Broken is widespread and serious.

    I hope that this will finally help break everyones permissions settings uniformly, so that LL will stop ignoring the issue and take care of it. It’s a showstopper.

    By the way I missed the part of being rolled back to Havoc1 is that true for all havoc4 tester sims?

  6. shockwave yareach says:

    Oh boy. Everytime, I hope and pray there are bugs fixed when this happens. And everytime, I find some fixes, but some new problems right along with them. The ratio of Bugs to the Megabyte of code seems to be a constant. But hey, I’m an incurable optimist – maybe THIS one will be the most glitch free and stable client ever. I’d like to think my premium money is going to pay a programmer somewhere.

  7. Hey, thank you, Joshua for a detailed, in-depth explanation!

    Hopefully, all the people who’ve been venting all this time about ‘fixing’ SL will understand why the new viewer is required (it helps ‘fix’ SL) and do’n’t go too far off the ranting ledge. 🙂

    Mostly, my feedback is a really BIG thank you for such a detailed explanation and clarifying WHY the new viewer will be a required update.

    Kind regards to all!

  8. Hanumi Takakura says:

    Well, people still come talk about how their SL is messed up. First, SL, as I understand it, is still an ongoing project. Sort of a beta. And as with any beta, bugs will occur. But, we have things like the jira issue tracker, which works, and LL does read it. So people, please, keep reporting bugs in the issue tracker. If your bug is already there, support the entry. Or at least know that it’s there and being worked on. Not all is lost. Cheers!

  9. And once again, LL forces very lame UI changes down your throat…

    For all the residents who hate the new v1.19 UI:

    http://sldev.free.fr/

  10. Dytska Vieria says:

    It would be nice if LL would incorporate the many fixes and especially enhancements that Nicholaz has done recently into the standard viewer. His custom xml files that keep the ‘old school’ look and feel are the primary reason I use his version.

  11. Epocx Timeless says:

    Will there be a Windlight Viewer based on the current (great) Viewer 1.19.0(5) ???

  12. anonymouse1 says:

    @7 Ari

    I’m sure that this will solve ALL of the problems that everyone has been complaining about for so long in one brilliant move and shut all of those naysayers up forever and ever. Really. 🙂

    NOT!

    There are many more issues in SL than just using different viewer versions. Also.. why *require* the release when LL committed to the idea of allowing the grid to support multiple protocols specifically to eliminate the need for mandatory upgrades.

    Contrary to popular belief… there are not people who simply complain at everything. The only thing that I and many others has ever complained about is the fact that LL seems to be very poor at listening to it’s own residents.

    Sincerely,
    Anony Mouse

  13. Angel Slocombe says:

    Oh my, you’d think you’d fix this before forcing it on people.
    I have since updgrading to 1.19.0 viewer had consistant “Out of memory” errors after an hour or so of use.I get it with the Windlight viewer too, which as you say is based on the 1.19.0 viewer. There is clearly a memory leak in the code somewhere.

  14. GreenLantern Excelsior says:

    This is good news. Thank you for discontinuing support of the older, more buggy viewers. I’m using the new viewer now, and I have no problems with setting permissions or viewing the full Contacts List. I’m glad to see LL is continuing to fix the bugs and keep the software updated.

  15. Gigs Taggart says:

    Anonymouse, eventually protocol changes do render older viewers obselete, even with het grid. Linden is still evolving the protocol to more reliable HTTP/TCP messaging. In the end this will help fix things like objects reverting when you edit them, double messages on IM, etc.

    Angel, did you see if there’s a Jira on that issue? It would help out a lot. The point of the RC viewers is to get bugs like that sorted out, so it really helps if people report the problems they are having with them.

  16. Marina Mincemeat says:

    this all sounds like Mutiny on the SL bounty to me 😉
    if it works i am all for it
    if it does not then what?
    my friends list is so bad i have to use search just to send an IM or see if someone is on in SL LOL

  17. Jeska Linden says:

    Thanks for your feedback everyone, I see a lot of bugs discussed above and wanted to make sure that everyone knew that the best way to alert Linden Lab to bugs within Release Candidates, First Look or final Release Second Life software, is to file an issue in the public JIRA tracker (directions below):

    * Go to jira.secondlife.com and login.
    * Create a new issue in “Project: Viewer” and “Issue Type: Bug”.
    * Make sure to set it to “Affects Version/s” to the proper viewer you are using

  18. WarKirby Magoijiro says:

    This was already discussed on SLDEV. We NEED an optional rollout to test the new group chat features BEFORE it becomes mandatory.

  19. Enibella Jewell says:

    My fellow residents just be glad we have a gripe review here but griping about new mandatory viewers will not stop SL progress!

  20. As founder of the group “Digital Invalids” I don’t have issue. But just what is that little white dot above my head ? and what does it mean ? hehe thanks!

  21. Argent Stonecutter says:

    The white dot means you have “voice chat” enabled. When you talk the dot will be replaced by a little “radio waves” symbol to show people around you who’s talking.

  22. Dekka Raymaker says:

    white dot = voice

  23. Toad Mougin says:

    ok, just downloaded the latest client and all I get when connecting is “Unable to connect to SL. Despite our best efforts something unexpected has happened’

    Windlight fires up ok – any ideas ??

  24. Aya Pelous says:

    ive said it before making everyone download things 15 million times will break someones registry if they dont have the means to fix it with a cleaner. Bad bad LL

  25. Jessica Hultcrantz says:

    Cite:
    “Custom viewers built from older releases of the source code may be blocked, but only those which are reporting “Second Life Release” as the channel and a pre-1.19.0 version during the login process; a code update/re-compile may be necessary in those cases.”

    And what will happen if one happens to run a viewer built on 1.18.5 source that does NOT report “Second Life Release” as channel? (That’s anyway configurable through the gridargs I believe?)

    I say as Henri:
    “And once again, LL forces very lame UI changes down your throat…”

    Go get his viewer that thankfully does exactly what the lab official viewer should have been doing, namely works with a great user interface!

    Thanks Henri :*

    http://sldev.free.fr/

    It would also be interesting to get an explanation on exactly why there is a fored update now and not some genreal tech talk trying to hide the actual facts? The only really valid feature mentioned above is the upcoming feature that isn’t deployed yet.

    Age verification sneaking up on us again?

    Anyway… Thanks for at least making the Linux viewer beta after way too long time.
    The lab does something for a stable world at least 🙂

  26. Argent Stonecutter says:

    Aya: I just went through all the registry entries associated with second life and linden labs, and there’s nothing there that can possibly “break someone’s registry”. The only thing I can see that might happen even if you deleted *all* the files in SL without cleaning the registry at all would be that you *might* get a different error message trying to open a “secondlife:” URL.

  27. nopaymentinfo says:

    okay, so i will spend rest of my lindens before i need to go away from SL because the Security-holes starts with 1.19.

    the 1.18.3 is the most stable viewer since voice was implemented.

    and, LL-eployees, please tell ur CUSTOMERS, that u turned ON voice for all and they need to set it back in preferences.

    and now i need to use the silly search too…. arrgghhhhh

    so sick to do this update mandatory

  28. Odious Wallaby says:

    My main concern is how scalable the render pipeline is. I appreciate all the stuff we can do for top end systems but it’s equally important to be able to really scale back the pipe so older systems in a wider performance range don’t get left locked out of the grid. Some of us don’t have the ability to upgrade to the new architecture.

  29. Dana Hickman says:

    As one of the “rogue 10%” that uses older viewers (1.18.2.1), I don’t use the older one just by choice. I use it because the newer viewers.. umm.. CRASH! Im sorry but i don’t pay my account and tier fees to spend my time being a crash report test dummy. I need the SL viewer to just work, and whatever LL did after 1.18.5.3 wasn’t it.

  30. A. Malaprop says:

    That is unfortunate, as 1.19 now consistently crashes me in under 10 minutes in SL.

  31. Vivienne says:

    I only hope Nicholaz Beresford and the great people compiling his fast rendering, stable and reliable viewers for the different platforms will get his 1.19 based client out fast. The official one and his alpha and beta counterparts are a nightmare.

  32. Kaya says:

    Hello 🙂 without mentioning ALL of the bugs, as they have been mentioned often in the past and here, I would like to agree with Angel #13 in the responses!

    This memory issue is one of the worse bugs I have come across… I know it’s not my computer, at least it wasn’t until I upgraded to the latest viewer. Good luck with the fixes and thank you.

  33. Chaos Mohr says:

    There are too many ‘bugs’ in the current viewer to make it mandatory. With all of the reported issues concerning 1.19 I am suprised it even made it out of RC (it was not ready in my opinion). Besides bugs that have been confirmed like: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-5098 (which while not major, still should have been addressed before taking the viewer out of RC), I crash much more often on 1.19 than on the 1.18.5.3 version which I am currently using now – and no, it’s not a hardware/driver issue, it’s viewer issues. Making this a mandatory upgrade is a bad idea until the 1.19 viewer is more stable – taking away the choice also goes against what LL has been telling us these past months.

    While I understand the needs in terms of bug reporting etc, LL needs to listen to the people submitting bug reports now, many of whom are saying 1.19 still has some major issues. I am greatly appreciative of the improvements in features I have seen in the new viewer, many of which address some long standing issues, however, there is still some work that needs to be done before ‘forcing’ this on members.

  34. Dominique Trevellion says:

    It is good to know that the 1.19 client has improved crash reporting. It is going to need it because it does nothing else other than crash for me. It crashes so fast there is no time to even get things rezzed up around me so I have no idea what is the problem. I have tried both 1.19.04 and 1.19.05 with no results OTHER than a crash right after logging in and went back to the 1.18.5(3) so I could continue to access SL without crashing.
    So…………now what? Do I end SL on Mar 15?

  35. Tohru Mills says:

    i would like to upgrade to the new viewers but i have stuck with 1.18.4 (3) due to the fact that after this one, i was told filters or something were put into voice. My voice tends to cut out allot (as well as some of my friends) when i use the newer ones and my closest friend gets annoyed as all get out. We use voice chat allot and there for have stuck with the 1.18.4. Is there a way to shut the filter off if there is even one so that we wont get so many cut outs? i have tried talking louder but cannot all the time due to other people in my house, and tried messing with some settings on my pc but nothing seems to work.

  36. Blinders Off says:

    Tongue-in-cheek commentary:
    LINDEN LAB OFFICIAL POLICY ON NEW RELEASES AND BUG FIXES

    1. Release new Client Viewer software, which purportedly fixes numerous issues on the JIRA and corrects security risks.
    2. Examine new JIRA postings regarding new bugs and security risks presented by the new release.
    3. Don’t worry about posts pointing out this once worked just fine and apparently has been broken by a supposed bug fix.
    4. Release BLOG post containing apology for inconvenience and regret that so many people can no longer log in.
    5. Express sympathy, being sure to state, “We’re just as upset as you are. This isn’t fun for us either. We’re really working hard on getting this fixed.”
    6. Forget all that mush and go back to creating more fancy toys.
    7. Have Torley release another one of his legitimately useful Tips and Tricks blogs to make everyone forget the fiasco.

    :DD

    (Sorry, could not resist…)

  37. Sean Heying says:

    “Custom viewers built from older releases of the source code may be blocked, but only those which are reporting “Second Life Release” as the channel and a pre-1.19.0 version during the login process; a code update/re-compile may be necessary in those cases.”

    To keep using the Nicholaz version add the string “-channel Nicholaz” (without the quotes) to the end of the shortcut. You will then get the out of date warning screens but still be able to log in.

  38. Zachary Carter says:

    I’m going to smack somebody.

    “Elimination of nuisance exploits – e.g. ability to force users to teleport when profile is opened”

    That would not be an exploit if the browser was loaded intentionally. I’m assuming it can still be done with an embedded or external browser?

  39. Jay Townsend says:

    1.19 is a dog for me. Constant screen freeze ups. Sometimes requiring a force close. Then I end up eith the “despite our best efforts” message until i reboot my pc. There is a bad memory leak somewhere in this viewer. Other bugs abound. The reason so many people have it is because it was incorectly listed as a mandatory viewer when it was first put up. If it hadnt been for that, i wouldn’t be running it. The old viewer that is still on my other PCs is much more stable.

    @17 Sorry, after posting some critical bugs in jira and having quite a few votes for them and seeing them still untouched and unassigned for over 7 months now, I sort of lost faith in the JIRA system. I don’t/won’t use it anymore as it is obvious that it is pointless.

    I pay a pretty decent amount every month to be here. As much a car payment actually. If someone buys a car from *insert famous maker here* and it had this many things wrong with it……. If you went to the dealership for instance and said, this new car you sold me, it cuts off everytime i stop at a redlight (ie client crashes on pan/zoom or memory leak) and the dealer said – “oh yea, we are aware of that, you will just have to deal with it untill we get around to fixing it.” You would be livid, this would be unacceptable. At least with a car there are lemon laws to protect the consumer from that sort of thing. Unfortunatly, here we only have two choices – keep paying and deal with it, or don’t drive. To bad i like to drive so much 😉

  40. Mercia McMahon says:

    Windlight and Dazzle will be affected. In Vista, if 1.19.0 is running then Windlight and Dazzle both launch straight into a Send Error Report on Crash dialogue. And yes I will be raising a JIRA isssue on this now that you arte to make 1.19.0 compulsory.

  41. Buster McNutt says:

    The new version works great i have never once crashed with it.

    Thanks LL for making this AWESOME viewer mandatory! im so sick and tired to ppl saying ‘!quit’ to me.

    If your computer crashes or SL doesnt run good for you it MUST be cuz your computer is crappy. buy a new computer you cheap people!!!!

    1.19 FOREVER Linden Love For Free!

  42. Ledo Dreadlow says:

    Hey all, I’m doing good with the new viewer, accept for the memory leak. Other than that, it’s fine…..Just one thing that is really irritating me!!! Why did you shut off the blinking tabs for IM’s? I keep ignoring my friends cause the tab’s are not blinking to let me know they are IMing me. I’ve had a few get ticked off about it…If anyone here can help me figure out how to get the blinking tabs back, it will be much appreciated…Thank you! That is all…Carry On!

  43. Trish Semyorka says:

    I currently to not run 1.19 on any computer I install SL on for my self or friends. I have installed it (then quickly downgraded it on the following machines)

    – Pentium 4 2.6Ghz, 512M Ram, 8600GT, XP

    – Pentium D 805, 1G Ram, Radeon 9700pro, XP

    – Pentium D 805, 1G Ram, Geforce 4600 Ti, XP

    All of these systems met the minimum requirements (though not recommended) but none of them could run 1.19 in world. Every one would freeze or crash on connecting to regions. Even with latest drivers. All ove them run 1.18 without problem. Since the people who play SL on themm are not ‘gamers’ they probably aren’t going to upgrade just to be into SL, crappy computers or not 1.18 runs fine on the above machines, 1.19 does not run at all. Once again LL seemingly on the cusp having a content user base manages to alienate a large segment of it.

    You know, most corporations would consider 10% of their customer base significant, not “only”.

  44. Abigail Merlin says:

    Those that want the nicholaz patches on the 1.19.0 viewer, take a look at the cool viewer, this is 1.19.0.5 with all the patches that can be made to work with 1.19.0.5

  45. Bucky Barkley says:

    Get your first real CTO, and have her, or him review your deployment process..

    .. have them lose the ‘choose your own work’ approach,
    .. have them lead internally and proactively communicate with the residents
    .. have them assure a higher standard of quality before even posting an RC
    .. and then consider the forced update.

    Hans Solo quote: I’ve got a bad feeling about this.

  46. Vivienne says:

    @42

    “If your computer crashes or SL doesnt run good for you it MUST be cuz your computer is crappy. buy a new computer you cheap people!!!!”

    I am sick and tired of this kind of comment. Look at the LL metrics and you´ll notice that the average SL experience (before 1.19) runs on amazing 12-15 frames per second.

    If LL decides to kill even more performance, so be it, This would be nothing but economical suicide.

    Yes, right, you only need 3 fps to figure out where to camp with your bots.

  47. SoulMate Girl says:

    Guys I think it is obvious how this is working out. It really doesn’t matter if we whine here or on the bug report, whether we pull our involvement completely or take to scratching our behinds for better service, the metrics of money speaks for itself.

    http://secondlife.com/whatis/economy_stats.php

    People are spending more and more each month in SL, while the money keeps on rolling in do you seriously think anything will get better? The Lindens don’t care how long term users of the system are affected by new clients, this one not working… well it minimizes how many people can get on to complain…

    As long as there are people spending money here, as long as there are people getting great service and not experiencing invent loss, crashes all the time, taking half an hour to log yourself in, what do they care?

    A forced viewer update of a viewer that does not work great? Oh well just a side issue. I used to sing the praises of SL and the Lindens, but I have become jaded by this treatment of basically what amounts to her customers. We are treated like scum. If you don’t know any of the lingo or don’t understand what is causing the issues they don’t want to know, even then people who have a lot of resources and understanding are ignored.

    Roll on competition, you never know, Second Life may become better for it!

  48. Janey Hutchinson says:

    Inventory – Unable to access Menu when I Right Click on an Item or Folder.
    This issue been in effect for me for ALL releases, including Windlight, AFTER 1.18.3.5 and naturally it is still an issue for me in 1.19.0(5)

    1. Open Inventory
    2. Right Click on and Inventory Folder or an Item
    3. UNABLE to access menu … it flashes open but not enough time for me to scroll down

    I am ABLE to right click on a rezzed object, access its pie and edit ect. I am ABLE to access right click menu in “File”, “Create” and “Sort” in the Inventory! I have checked my hardware, including installing another mouse, and all are in good working order. I am ABLE to right click access menu’s in other programmes! I first reported this bug (VWR-3542) on the 29th November 2007 and it has remained unassigned. I am AWARE of OTHERS that have same problem. I am thorougly frustrated at being unable to use – “wear”, “copy”, “rename”, “delete” as it makes dressing, writing notes, cleaning out inventory so tedious and time consuming!

    I keep going back to version 1.18.3.5 as all works beautifully BUT now I see in blog that you are going to force us to upgrade on Wednesday, 12th March 2008. I have reported it again in JIRA! Anybody want a bet that they ignore that report too?

    PLEASE HELP

  49. Rascal Ratelle says:

    * Grid stability and performance – teleports fail quite regularly, especially under heavy load. , and sim performance varies wildly, Low FPS, Lag, serious texture latency, in world maps are very slow loading, Crashes and viewer hangs and freezes. Random log outs, ongoing friends list issues, None of this makes for a very pleasant experience for users. Long promised improvement to physics and scripting would help dramatically to reduce these problems, but there are a lot of other scalability issues as well.

  50. Vivienne says:

    Correction. You only need a web browser. LL should declare SL statical instead of pretending running a walkthrough 3D environment. And this winded light is great for still pictures and corporation adverisement boards, anyway. And Torley would not have to teach the newbs how to move in slow motion.

  51. Rascal Ratelle says:

    Re: new release

    very poor performance, has-rendering issues, ground disaperes when moving at certain angles. there’s a whole new series of serious memory leaks.

    Tons of lag as a resualt, what is very fustrating about all this is LL continues to push viewers that don’t work on older computers, and continues to ignore the comments made by most residents on performance issues.

    LL is putting aesthetics and features above performance and stability.

    Windlight currently works better then the main viewer.

    Every time new viewers are pushed out they come with new memory leaks, performance problems rendering problems and stability issues.

  52. Andromeda Quonset says:

    If this somehow keeps me from using my main viewer, which is the Nicholaz BE-V built on the 1.18.5.3 code, then this is an extremely UNwelcome change.

  53. DirkMeriman says:

    Seriously, LL… do you really think this is the best move? I’m running a machine with 2gb of memory and I have serious memory issues with 1.19… The Nicholaz viewer is awesome and I have not once had a memory error. Not once. I fire up the RC and BLAMMO.

    You don’t test thoroughly. It seems every time you make a fix, you break something else.

    Do NOT make this mandatory. I guarantee with the track-record with everything 1.19 related, this will be a fiasco.

  54. Chaos Mohr says:

    I think LL seriously needs to reconsider this until the stability and major issues in 1.19 are sorted out – listen to the chat, the people coming to Help Island and asking where they can download the older client versions – people who download and use RC’s, Windlight, Dazzle etc expect bugs and do so knowing they can safely use a previous ‘somewhat’ stable release, forcing people to use 1.19 at this point in time is a bad move, not only from a technical standpoint, but from a morale and retention standpoint – people will not be happy, and not log in (or spend money) if their ‘forced’ upgrade makes their SL experience worse.

  55. Wow… Thanks guys, for disabling video for us Win2k users. At least now I can completely uninstall that annoying piece of shite called quicktime… Too bad Squeebee’s MST3K movie theater was one of my last reasons to log in from time to time… Staring at a blank screen sure is NO fun. You write “Only 10% of residents are still running viewers older than 1.18.5.” – any insight how many people are running SL from windows 2000 like me and who are now cut off from watching movies? I care less and less…

  56. Trish Semyorka says:

    RE 49
    “People are spending more and more each month in SL, while the money keeps on rolling in do you seriously think anything will get better? The Lindens don’t care how long term users of the system are affected by new clients, this one not working… well it minimizes how many people can get on to complain…”

    That’s one of the problems with SL though, they see the money they do make and are content to be a second tier MMORPG. With the base technology they have devoloped they should be outstripping everyone. Free accounts that are not hamstrung, Ability to modify the world to be just about everything to everyone. And where are they? WoW has almost 10 million users paying monthly fees. SL has 6 million and I would guess a very large chunk of those are alts. The problem is that LL should wait for critical mass before they dump the “next big thing” on us. Stick with what you have that works. 1.18 clients are fine. Havoc 1 has been serving you good. Let the client base build on those. Casual players who might eventually become hard core uses are more likely to just drop out and move on if their experience isn’t consistant and reliable. LL seems to think their client base is a moving target and keep trying to upgrade to bring in more people. The client base.. current and targeted is pretty fixed. They want a more social interactive experience and want to play at being their fantasy selves. Not, want the most highpowered graphic interface that requires them to have Crysis level hardware to play.

    I’ve already talked to one friend tonight from the 3 I mentioned above whose response to the forced upgrade is “Oh well, I’ll play Eve Online instead.”

    MEMO to LL – The Blizzard Model works. The Sony Model (SWO, which you seem to be mirroring) failed.

  57. DirkMeriman says:

    Prospero Linden Says:
    March 5th, 2008 at 7:29 PM PST

    “Aya : this rolling restart has nothing to do with needing a new client. Since “message liberation” many months ago, server and client updates are no longer so tightly linked.”

    From here-> http://blog.secondlife.com/2008/03/06/rolling-restart-thursday-march-6th-5pm-10pm-pst/#comment-588187

    Does the left hand not know what the right hand is doing at LL? You say you want to give everyone a head-up to the viewer change, but you post 6 posts after this one, essentially burying it at the bottom of the page.

    As I said before, this is a bad idea…

  58. uh-oh says:

    This is wonderful news. My understanding from previous blogs concerning the IDV is at this time is that all parcels and estates will require to be flagged as adult and keeping the children from accessing these places.
    This has been long over due.
    Since the Second Life adult grid is for adults only, to make it perfect, we need this also at the log in to keep them off this grid and back onto the teen grid where they belong.
    As mentioned in an earlier blog, estate and parcel owners can manually add people’s names to the parcel access list so that people can still enter without going through the IDV process. This was confirmed to me when a person who belongs to one of these adult content role-play sim’s told me that the owners of some of the various adult role-play Sims plan to do this. The ones mentioned were Midian City, Dark City, Toxian City and The Crack Den plan to do this. This is something that Linden Labs needs to look into.
    Yes some will find ways of circumventing the system, but if they do and are caught then they can add identity theft to what ever else they were up to.
    This is a great move in protecting us. Thank you again.

  59. Me says:

    None of the official releases are working properly for me right now (unless I would not want to look at anything but only chat because graphics are totaly messed up).

    So if the required viewer update won’t let me use the Nicholaz edition any longer (no graphics problems at all with Nicholaz) this may be my last week in SL.

    I’m not willing to buy a new computer that I don’t have any problems with apart from SL’s official software….

    Not really looking forward to this, but then this might be a good chance to take a break from all this and get away from the continous frustration.

  60. Vivienne says:

    @ 58

    “Since the Second Life adult grid is for adults only…”

    Right. It is by default.

    “The ones mentioned were….”

    I talked to an avatar named God and he tmentioned you plan to have IDV on heaves gate. Is this true?

    “This is a great move in protecting us.”

    You? No one needs to protect YOU. You are an adult, i suggest. Or not?

  61. Wow… Thanks guys, for disabling video for us Win2k users. At least now I can completely uninstall that annoying piece of *bleep* called quicktime… Too bad Squeebee’s MST3K movie theater was one of my last reasons to log in from time to time… Staring at a blank screen sure is NO fun. You write “Only 10% of residents are still running viewers older than 1.18.5.” – any insight how many people are running SL from windows 2000 like me and who are now cut off from watching movies? I care less and less…

  62. Yuo Rang says:

    oh come ON

    Dont make us use a viewer that is more broken than the last.

    I try the windlights and RCs frequently. In 1.19.5 i have yet to see a friends list that actually says anything except hippos/waiting, at least with the 1.18x we could check and un check the find me box to force it to work. Now 1.19 breaks the one feature that fixed it.

    When i first tried 1.19. 5 i installed fresh, clean cache, and was ruthed over several reboots. I even stripped right down to a basic linden default skin and nothing else, and it STILL said to me, please wait your clothing is downloading, and left me with a ruth.

    So, Jeska Linden, im sorry but almost all the main bugs that we suffer from are already in the JIRA (fwiw). How can people make a difference when you ignore or put off main issues like the friends list? Its been broken on and off through 1.18 for soo long. Now its impossible.

  63. @58 IDV have always been added as completely voluntary even for land parcel owners, that’s good as he limited good test sample have 1 in five legitimate user fail the roll-out had “MUCH” higher number how much LL didn’t release but as almost no-one outside the used and about max 80% in the us succeeds. Some kind of age verifications is surely good, but it should be based on a system where the only possible way to get age verified isn’t to get 2-pac drivers licence.

  64. Wyald Woolley says:

    @58 Uh-Oh Who blathers on:

    “This is wonderful news. My understanding from previous blogs concerning the IDV is at this time is that all parcels and estates will require to be flagged as adult and keeping the children from accessing these places”

    Your understanding is screwed up badly. While children should not access these places, they should not even be on SL. The gatekeeling belongs at the door, not at the sim. LL has NO DESIRE to keep children out of SL because they will still allow unverified accounts to come in the door.

    Uh-Oh further mumbles: “Since the Second Life adult grid is for adults only, to make it perfect, we need this also at the log in to keep them off this grid and back onto the teen grid where they belong.”

    You get this part right. And if Linden Labs fulfills their responsibility there will be NO NEED for sim owners to sort children out of the mix.

    Finally in the middle of a mental fit Uh-Oh writes: “This is a great move in protecting us. Thank you again.”

    Perhaps you need protection (a good lockup perhaps) but the adults on SL don’t need protection. If LL fulfills their responsibility and prohibits unverified accounts, then some thank yous are in order. Until then, expecting sim owners to do LL’s job is shirking their responsibility and buys them zero protection from litigation.

    This is an adult site and not checking some kind of ID at the door for ALL people leaves LL open for litigation….they can’t pass this responsibility off to their customers even if they’re hoping to. The bottom line is that LL WANTS children in-world. They have fixed it so that they can freely come in. They just are hoping to avoid the liability for letting them in.

  65. uh-oh says:

    @64
    This is exactly what I have been saying all along, IDV everyone at login, and then we know that the people we are dealing with are adults. If a person has a problem using the IDV process, then they have something to hide and they do not belong out here. Until this happens the sim and parcel owners must flag all adult content and restrict non verified accounts from entering them.
    Should one of these kids be out here illegally and real life law comes knocking at your door, it will be easier to show that this child used a stolen I.D. thus protecting people from liability and placing the wrong on the child or their parents for lying, using stolen identities and being out here to begin with.
    This also will hold people participating in illegal activities or those against the TOS responsible for their actions. Once they are removed from Second Life, it will make it harder for them to return, and make criminal prosecution easier for the law enforcement agencies investigating such activities.
    This will also cut down on fraud and theft since there will be a name attached to each account that has been verified and hopefully allow the victims of fraud to recover their losses.
    As for my “blathering” I will continue to do so both on the blogs and other places until I get my point across. I am sure by now the fact that children are out here being exposed to some rather disturbing content is the topic of discussion around many water coolers in various companies and agencies by now.. No amount of harassment will silence me; it only strengthens my resolve and proves the need for the IDV to be required for all accounts out here.

  66. Stoni says:

    I have tried every viewer since 1.18.3(5) and none of them are as stable. I simply NEVER crash or have any serious problems with this viewer. While everyone around me is crashing on TP, I’m fine. If you make this up(down)grade mandatory, I will be joining those who crash on every other tp, if I can log in.

    Please do more testing before making it mandatory. Pretty please?

  67. Stefan Blinker says:

    I am a former Sun Microsystems software test engineer for Solaris.
    I use the Linux Alpha (and now Beta) client, which has not been stable since version 1.18.3. I use Fedora Core Linux.

    This deprecation (obsolescence) of previous code means that Second Life will now be unusable for me and my wife, Our beautiful virtual land will become empty because we may not even be able to log in to pay the tier fees, and the 55 dollars a month that we pay in tier fees will be lost to Linden Labs.

    I am very upset that LL has refused to fix this HUGE bug that causes a crash to the Linux viewer upon each and every teleport. This means that when I log in, if I can log in, I can’t go anywhere. Not much of a Second Life.

    I know that things move forward, and that many bug fixes and exploits have been solved, BUT for the Linux client, which has remained buggy and unstable, crashing repeatedly per session. Those that talk of how wonderful the new 1.19.0.5 viewer is have not used the Linux client. It’s a mess.

    Linden Labs has shown the Linux community just how little they care about supporting us. Yet, Linux users are spending REAL money on your services. Lindens, if you were never going to fix this bug, then why not make an exception for those running the Linux clients? That would have at least meant that you spent five minutes thinking about us. I know that you only have a dozen or so Lindens working on Linux (according to the Linden support folks in Aussie), and that nobody cares, but really, could you have fixed this bug before deprecating the *only* Linux client that worked?
    What are we supposed to do now? Say goodbye to our many online friends and log off for good? Really? I can’t believe that this is what Lindens want, unhappy customers who used to be loyal paying fans.
    I am extremely disappointed.

  68. Zi Ree says:

    I’m sorr to hear that you have so many problems, but I can assure you, it’s not the Linux viewer’s fault per se. I use the Linux alpha (now beta) ever since I came to Second Life (2 years ago), and it always worked well. You see the occasional crash, or with some Versions more than that, but I never saw the viewer fail completely.

    In my opinion, Linden Lab has undergone a great effort to support the Linux community. I remember when the first alpha came out and the Linux crowd was often locked out of the world until someone “found the time” to compile the latest version. They hired a dedicated Linux developer later and things went uphill from that day on. So I think you can’t say, Linux was not supported eagerly enough.

    The Lindens in Australia are probably hired for networking and not viewer development. This is a completely different thing.

    In closing, I downloaded the latest RC yesterday and it ran perfectly fine on my Linux system.

  69. Stefan Blinker says:

    @42

    “If your computer crashes or SL doesnt run good for you it MUST be cuz your computer is crappy. buy a new computer you cheap people!!!!”

    I have a Intel 64 bit Core Duo running at 3GHz
    4Gb of memory
    Nvidia geForce 7600 with 256mb
    Sata2 400gb Hard Disk
    High speed DSL connection.

    This is a blazingly fast system that regularly reports 45+ Frames Per Second
    and reaches 350 KTris drawn.
    I almost never lag.
    That said, I still encounter lag occasionally, especially on older servers and places where there are a great many scripts running.

    I built and installed this system myself, and it’s *rock* solid.
    No other application crashes, not even Firefox with it’s known memory leak bug.

    Your assertion is therefore invalid and without basis in fact.
    You might want to glance at the JIRA and the numerous known bugs for SL before asserting falsehoods. Most SL users that I have met are *very* savvy and have more than met the system requirements. Stop blaming the users, they don’t write the code.

  70. Stefan Blinker says:

    @68 said:
    I’m sorr to hear that you have so many problems, but I can assure you, it’s not the Linux viewer’s fault per se.”

    It is the fault of management at Lindens Labs for not putting a better effort into bug fixing. especially with the Linux client. Many many others have reported this same bug, including in the comments of this blog post! Read up a bit and see what I’m talking about.
    See @50 and @55 comments, for starters. Probably others.
    I am not alone in reporting this, and having it be ignored.

    I’m a software engineer who specializes in software test.
    Trained system and network administration.
    Many others have reported bugs on the Linux client and not seen them fixed.
    Take a look at the JIRA and realize that your case is the exception, not the rule.
    And BTW, the Australian support team were not networking folks, that was not my issue.
    Oh, and you have also ignored the fact that the 1.18.3.(5) client works quite well for me, so it’s not all Linux clients, just ones newer than that version.

  71. Stefan Blinker says:

    BTW, has anyone notice that the icon for the program is missing in the 1.19.1.0 Release Candidate 0 viewer for Linux? Oops. So many bugs.

  72. Zi Ree says:

    @79 Stefan Blinker: I know there are a lot of people reporting problems, but hte same goes for Windows or Mac. So far, each and every Linux installation of the viewer (even on Intel and small Laptop ATi cards) I did worked, some better, some worse, but none of them failed completely.

    I have no idea what goes wrong on your system, I can only advide to look at the log files, compile the source yourself and get some serious debugging done. With your background you should be able to do that 🙂

    You say, “only” a dozen or so Lindens are working on the Linux viewer … Personally, I think this number is far too high. There are probably only very few core developers for the viewer at all, and even fewer would be dedicated to the Linux port. But of course, only one of the Linux Lindens can tell us with certainty.

    I don’t deny the fact that the viewer has bugs and rough edges, but not a lot of them I would attest to “Linux only”. I see most of the issues on Linux and Windows systems.

    Oh, BTW, your experience in software testing and development does not impress me at all. 😉 I can compete on that without any problem.

  73. Zi Ree says:

    BTW, the icon shows up for me.

  74. Stefan Blinker says:

    @72 Zi Ree said: “I know there are a lot of people reporting problems”

    I’m guessing that you think it’s of no consequence that there are critical show stopping bugs in SL code, because you dismiss this bug as trivial. Bugs that crash the viewer repeatedly are not trivial, in my professional opinion. They are critical bugs that have slipped by release after release, and are well documented.
    When users are the secondary test group, there must be a way of getting critical bugs fixed when they are found, and this process has not worked well for this particular bug, and believe me, it’s a mystery as to why. I cannot speak to the Windows or Mac viewers as I have not used them, but other users have reported this bug, so I know that it’s real. I am tempted to run Vista just to have another version, but this is an project that I don’t really have time for.

    The rule in software testing is when you can reproduce a bug repeatedly, then it’s real. I can and have, as demonstrated by bug reports to that effect. You seem to be asserting that every user that has filed a bug report regarding crashing on teleport should “look at the log files”, as if to say that there is something wrong with those user’s systems. Surely you can’t just mean my system? That would sound like a petty personal attack, since there is nothing wrong with my system, and I don’t think that you meant that, did you?

    I may compile the Linux source myself, as I am quite capable as you point out, but as you probably are already aware, it lacks core graphics libs that are proprietary, and therefore anything that I compile would be degraded in performance, non-standard, and therefore a last resort. It would also not be supported. If I were to lose lindens or have other issues, there would be no recourse. Not a road I wish to travel at this point, since I am not being paid to provide my services to LL, and there is already a bug reporting tool available. Also, any bug that I find and fix cannot be put back to the source code AFAIK, as I am not on the payroll. It would only help me, and that’s not what I’m about. I would prefer that everyone get an official fix from LL, wouldn’t you? Surely we agree on that point, yes?
    Also, not being intimate with the SL source code, I might accidentally introduce a new bug. Surely no one wants that.

    Zi Ree said: “You say, “only” a dozen or so Lindens are working on the Linux viewer ”
    I never said this. This came from the Australian support team. I am quoting the folks at Linden Labs, not myself. You seem to want to make this very personal, and I’m not sure why.

    Zi Ree said: “I don’t deny the fact that the viewer has bugs and rough edges, but not a lot of them I would attest to “Linux only”. I see most of the issues on Linux and Windows systems.”

    I never said that these bugs were “Linux only” either. This is a misrepresentation of my words. Is there some reason that you are misquoting me?

    When I make a desktop shortcut, I have to give a location for the file secondlife.ico, which is not present in the most recent release 1.19.1.0 Release Candidate 0.
    Why are you so adamant that my assertion is false? This is not the first release to have this file missing. It’s not a big deal for me, I just copy it from another release, but it is telling in terms of how much time is spent testing.
    I’m not sure why this information is so upsetting, but believe me, it’s not personal.

  75. Zi Ree says:

    @74 Stefan Blinker: It’s in no way personal. I may have misunderstood one or two things in your posts, consider it the language barrier. If I speak against something in your posts, it’s simply about the facts, not about you as a person.

    You’re always talking about “this huge bug”, and I fail to see it. I’m getting logged out on teleports occasionally, but that’s not the viewers fault, it looks more like a connectivity problem to me. Do you have a Jira ID of the bug? The bug might be real for you and several other people, I don’t deny that. But I didn’t see anything like you described on my systems. Therefore I advise to have a loko at the logs and maybe compile the source yourself to get at the core problem.

    The source code does not lack any libraries. If you are referring to libkdu, you can get it as a package from the source code download page. The sound system, FMOD, is also available for download.

    About the Linux Lindens … the way youo put it in the post I was referring to first, it certainly looked like you were adopting the information of the Australian support team. My bad if I misinterpreted what you wrote.

    About “Linux only”: Your posts have been very much Linux centric from the start, and you claimed, that Linden Lab is not devoting enough time and resourced to the Linux port of the viewer. So I assumed you were talking about bugs that predominantly happen on Linux systems and have been ignored. Please tell me if I got this sentence wrong:

    “I am very upset that LL has refused to fix this HUGE bug that causes a crash to the Linux viewer upon each and every teleport.”

    You might argue that you didn’t say “only the Linux viewer” but I think it was at least ambiguous 😉

    About the icon: I see what you mean now. I never looked for an .ico file, because I don’t use desktop shortcut. I was referring to the program icon appearing in the task bar and window decoration upon running Second Life. This probably was a misunderstanding. As you said yourself, you can copy it from an older release, so it’s not really a bug but a packaging mistake. Did you already file a Jira for it?

    Anyway … Pleaase don’t take my comments personally, because I don’t know you and have no reason to attack you in any way. I’m simply stating the facts as I see them.

  76. Stefan Blinker says:

    Zi Ree said: “The source code does not lack any libraries.”

    Zi, read carefully. I never said that it did.
    There are proprietary libs that are not open source that are used in SL code.
    They are the default. There are open source graphics libs available, but they’re slow compared to the default, and also non-standard.
    The point is that anything that I build, however wonderful, would still only be available to me, and that’s not what I want. If I’m going to go to the trouble to fix something, I want everyone to have it.
    Also, maybe there is a language barrier. I don’t believe that my comments are ambiguous. I have said that my comments pertain to the Linux viewer code because that’s what I use. I noted that others have reported similar problems on other viewers. How is that ambiguous?
    Also, your experience is a sample of one. My experience is backed up by bug reports. Just because you don’t see it doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist. It’s reproducible, and therefore real, and it doesn’t happen on 1.18.3.5 at all.
    Something in the code base changed to make TPs decidedly less stable, and others are seeing it. Why is that a problem for you? All I’m asking for is that if LL will not fix it, then they should at least allow a stable viewer to be available. Otherwise many others like me will not be able to use SL. Surely you don’t want the SL user base to be reduced because of this.

  77. Zi Ree says:

    Now I’m confused.

    You said: “I may compile the Linux source myself, as I am quite capable as you point out, but as you probably are already aware, it lacks core graphics libs that are proprietary, and therefore anything that I compile would be degraded in performance, non-standard, and therefore a last resort.”

    So you didn’t say the source code would lack libraries? Please clarify.

    I suggested building the viewer to be able to test it, find the core of the crash. If it doesn’t crash in your own build (using the proprietary graphics librariess of course), you have at least something to tell Lindens. And your fixes can go back into the source tree. I have provided a number of patches to the viewer already, so some of the code that’s running in the viewer is mine 😉

    Would you be so kind to provide me the Jira number, so I can have a look how this bug can be reproduced?

  78. Paula Dix says:

    Hi there! Tried Dazzle right now… its ok, but i would prefer you made different things regarding screen disposition and not just colors, even if this is nice to change.

    A request, why Communications window cant be smaller? Im used to let it with just 4 lines to have more view space, it bothers to not be able to make it smaller…

    Also, why not put title, group or IM session name and profile or group info all on the top line? That would save a lot of view space for us.

    >Paula

  79. Danika says:

    ONLY ONE COMMENT! 🙂

    Whatever you doing Lindens, please, please, please this…

    Make the contact list load.
    Make the contact list load.
    Make the contact list load.
    MAKE THE CONTACT LIST LOAD!

    Since new viewer came, contact list usually does NOT load, acting like same bug as in Windlight, and when does load, can be only after hours! This is very strange thing and can’t imagine is difficult for fixing because did not have this problem with before version. Please fix!

  80. Danika says:

    O sorry, was one more…

    OLD way of “say/shout” was MUCH better because can just TAB over to SHOUT. New way of need to use mouse select from menu is really… well, sorry for say, but this was really pretty stupid idea of change! Who thinking, “Oh, yes, take away keyboard use and replace with mouse use when person is typing… that is great idea!”…. ??? 😛

    Please re-think about this one!!

  81. Sofia Westwick says:

    The friends list better be fixed if your forcing the update. I can’t go with my list saying wiating or hippos all the time.

  82. Neon says:

    Anyone know why I can’t use the Windlight viewer? Each time I log in I get told to update the viewer to the mainstream viewer. This is contrary to the above blog which says Windlight will run ok as it is based on the 1.19.0 code. I prefer Windlight to the main release which I would rather not use (it looks naff).

  83. Stefan Blinker says:

    Zi,

    I said that the source code lack the core libs that are *proprietary*, meaning that as you well know, in order to release what I compiled, I would have to use OPEN SOURCE libs for the graphics, which are not nearly as efficient.
    No matter, since none of the older, stable code can be putback, so their is no point.
    Besides, it doesn’t matter if I reproduce the bug, it matter that the folks at Linden Labs reproduce it. Since you are so sure that this bug doesn’t exist, why don’t you search yourself and prove me wrong, since you are so happy to do so.
    You have no problem with me personally, yet you continue to make this a personal big deal, so I’m gonna be the better man and let this go. You win the DSW, okay?
    Jeez.

  84. Neon says:

    RE my post #82 Seems Windlight is now the Release Candidate.

  85. Wanna GetMyAvBack says:

    Any one have this problem:
    Download 1.19.0, log in, find that your Av is a mixture of what you almost recognize as yourself but about a third as tall as your last self on log off, AND you are half your old newbie self, half your current self, wearing a pile of clothing you know you through away months ago? Oh yeah, edit appearance was grayed out and not useful, friends list didn’t load forever, and inventory never loaded. Yes I emptied my cache and rebooted, tried three times before I gave up and went to bad.

    That was my experience last night with 1.19.0.
    Do i dare to log on again?
    PS Mac Power Book G4 1 gig, and I have never ever had these problems before!

  86. Shanessa Vendetta says:

    Anyone being forced to download it over and over and over again.. only to be told that it is already installed in the installation process.. sure its a very quick thing but its getting very annoying.

  87. @71
    linux windloght 1.19.0 cannot login, it say I need higher version, higher is the RC, RC on linux system crash every 2 mins max (if not directly in login stage). I’ve opened a issue http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-5544 hoping linden posticipate linux version forcing, impossible for me to play from tomorrow if no other RC released…

  88. Pingback: Did you get the newest SecondLife client? You’ll need it as of Wednesday. « I’m Just an Avatar

  89. Ann Otoole says:

    maybe it looks so stable cuz nobody is using it 😛

    i tried using it. it sucks. it isn’t stable at all.

  90. Tristin Mikazuki says:

    “Based on Resident feedback and our acknowledgment that having more than one supported viewer version in use is beneficial, we’ve decided to push off the date that 1.19.0 will become the oldest supported viewer…”
    OMFG You guys LISTENED this time WOW that is a FIRST!!!!!
    Please keep it up maybe LL is so stupid after all LOL
    ..I wont hold my breath on it tho lol

  91. Vittorio Beerbaum says:

    On my experience, the current RC is the most stable viewer i’ve experienced in months (not a single crash; i’m running it h24 except those system reboots). Probably i’m conditioned (positively) because of another series of aspect that are improving my experiece: havok4 is running great and i can’t survive a day without it (and it’s gonna hit the main grid…); i don’t have the “forced to logout bug after a TP from 4 days now (different sessione / router reboot.. etc.); plus a series of new good news (read LL finally doing something for mainland; openspace sims new policy etc.). I didn’t see so many good things (or “less bad”…) comes togeter from the start (well, my start). Good job!

  92. hmmmm... says:

    @91 i was using the release candidate quite successfully until yesterday when it suddenly began to crash every time i tried to use it. i am left wondering what is going on at sl. have long questioned the ability of sl people to rationally plan let alone successfully communicate plans and actions to residents…will be taking a break for a while from sl…will be interesting to see (given the recent trajectory) whether there is anything here when i get back

  93. Kirstens Dazzle with a toned down Slate UI – record 19 Hour Login
    And Kirstens Windlight – Stable n Fast for higher spec hardware 😉

    YAY

  94. Tristin Mikazuki says:

    btw try 1.18.2 for a REALLY stable client ie 2 weeks with out a reboot 😉

  95. Ryanna Enfield says:

    This does not affect the First Look: Dazzle viewer, which is based on 1.19.0

    Okay this scares me simply for the fact that I’m using this viewer and I still suffer constant crashing. I’m sending you crash reports upwards of five times daily. What you have listed above does tell me that you are doing something with that data, but it is irritating that this fix is not going to help me or anyone else in my same shoes yet again. If people are forced to upgrade to this, will they also suffer from the constant crashes I suffer from currently? I really hope not. Hopefully this means that you are using this time to perfect the 1.19.0 viewer so that when it becomes mandatory, things will be far more stable than they are currently.

  96. Shai Khalifa says:

    I’m on the verge of panic. I can’t use any of the later versions of viewers after 1.18.3 (5). I’ve reported and reported the bugs and problems but to no avail for months now – with every new update that I try.

    The latest problem for me in 1.19 viewers (including RC) is that when in IM, I get kicked if the other person starts to type something – so I can ‘t type as they do.

    This is particularly annoyng on top of no groups, About Land screen not working, SL not recognising when I move from one parcel on my sim to another, inability to upload files, teleport not working at all and inventory constantly stuck on Loading.

    Please don’t make me update from 1.18.3 (5). It works and it’s relatively stable.

    the current viewers will make it completely impossible for me to run and manage my businesses, groups and second life in general.

    😦

  97. Istephanija Munro says:

    Moderation in Group Chats
    omg thats like christmas & birthday together!

  98. Bagushii Kohime says:

    @43 Leo and others, there is a debug option buttonFlashCount, set it to 9999 to get the blinking IM tabs back.

  99. netty streeter says:

    when i use the new 1.19 veiwer everyone on my friendslist has waiting by there name hope you fix that

  100. o.h. says:

    my release candidate REQUIRES an updat,e no word about it anywhere…

  101. Whichway Janus says:

    1.19.1 RC the most stable viewer? You’ve _got_ to be kidding. It crashed three times in the first few hours of use for me. Nicholaz BE-v _never_ does that. And it attaches things to the right place. And doesn’t make my AV fall apart and wind up in my but when I cross sim boundaries. More than a little premature to call 1.19.1 RC “most stable”, I think.

  102. lockmort mortlock says:

    Like alot of others have had issues with too, This means in 2-3 weeks i cant play SL..NONE of 3 comps here will connect with any 1.19X… But they all run FINE with 1.18X.

    =(

  103. Murry says:

    Crashes? What about the fact that 1.19 is so screwed up with the new attempts to protect content that you cant even take a full perms texture that you uploaded and save it onto your disc to mess with further. It completely screwes up content development in that way. All for what? So we cant see the texture thumbnail and color plate for no mod objects, two things that were entirely useless anyways?

  104. Elvis Orbit says:

    @23 Make sure any anti virus or firewall is not blocking it. Happened to me and then I noticed I forgot to give Norton permission to let the client access the net. That may be what it is.

  105. Harald Nomad says:

    Where can I download 1.18.5?

  106. Tiny Mind says:

    “” 1.19 is a dog for me. Constant screen freeze ups. Sometimes requiring a force close. Then I end up eith the “despite our best efforts” message until i reboot my pc. “”

    No kidding!! This MEMORY RAM Trasher SL version is now going to become more common-place, and guess what? Nothing will be done about it then, either.

  107. Sokonomi says:

    Frankly I dont want it. My crashrate has gone up a steep hill lately. With my viewer bugging out worse and worse after each “update”. The newer clients just keep rezzing like im on a dailup again, plus the utterly random freezes arnt making it any better eighter…

    Short story shorter: Shove it.

  108. Sokonomi says:

    Oh and did I mention I cant even remember the last time the SL viewer properly shut itself down? Forced kill each and every time. =/ It simply wont die on its own..

  109. Storyof Oh says:

    im not crashing but day 3 of a diminishing inventory (down 1k since yesterday) and no answer to my ticket i’m 4k items lost overall in cyberspace i think i’ll clear cache and see what happens but i might lose more lolllll

  110. U M says:

    @69 well i have a

    6000+ 125 watt amd
    7900 gtx extreme 512mb
    4 giga memory
    100 mbps fiber optical

    any where from 12 fps ( in heavey traffic ) to 50 and up in lower levels scripts………..

    and if your reaching 45 fps with a Nvidia geForce 7600 with 256mb ( wonders where your camera is located )
    and the location your in i highly doublt if its a high script area you ge half of those fps with that graphic card

  111. lightwave says:

    so forcing this up date you drop all support for windows 2k?

  112. U M says:

    Lightwave, it appears they are phazingout 2000 os. silly i know. But what you want when they have new features with xp and now vista. A Good compnay always tries to add the lowest possible OS client so the tail end users can use the software……..wel thats until LL shows us that well………………never mind you know. Don`t expect compasion from a compnay that these days never mind its too depressing……….

  113. Cyall Akula says:

    “We expect 1.19.1 to be the most stable viewer so far”… That’s interesting. So far I’ve found the two 1.19.1 release candidates to be the least stable versions I’ve used in a long time. I do recognize that under-the-surface changes may make it possible for 1.19.1 to become better than previous releases, but in my eyes it’s not off to a promising start at all.

  114. Rascal Ratelle says:

    * Grid instability and poor performance
    * Teleports fail quite regularly, especially under heavy load
    * Sim performance varies wildly (NOT due to client content either)
    * Low FPS
    * Serious texture latency
    * World maps are very slow loading
    * Crashes and viewer hangs and freezes
    * Ongoing friends list issues
    * Group chat totally borked
    * Group Notices not getting to all members of a group
    * Random animations starting out of nowhere (and no, not an attack)
    * Sailing off into void space after crossing a sim line
    * Did we mention crashes? Why yes, yes we did.
    * Major bugs not being corrected month after month, year after year (prime example: llTargetOmega)
    * LL spending time on items no customers really want or care about (prime example: Dazzle).
    * LL totally ignoring customer voting results and @#$# well doing what they want anyway (prime example: voice… which was majorly voted AGAINST by LL customers).
    * Absurdist pricing on sims and land (namely: $295 and $350 a month for a piece of virtual land is ridiculous. The only thing it does is stuff LL’s pockets with $$$ and keeps most people for being able to afford a sim).
    * Total failure of LL to prevent minors from entering the grid, resulting in continual hassles with immature children (not that some of the “adults” are any more mature… it just adds to the problem and drama).

    … and the list goes on and on and on.

    Why list these things? We’re not just griping. We’re listing these things to point out issues that Second Life customers deal with every single day… issues that Linden Lab continues to ignore (or put on the back burner, or “it bothers us too” into the obscurity pile) year after year.

    And then people wonder why there are constant gripes on the blog.

    That would be why.

  115. Rascal Ratelle says:

    @111 so forcing this up date you drop all support for windows 2k?”

    Good point.

    and what about:
    Machine Name: iMac
    Machine Model: PowerMac6,1
    CPU Type: PowerPC G4 (3.3)
    Number Of CPUs: 1
    CPU Speed: 1.25 GHz
    L2 Cache (per CPU): 256 KB
    Memory: 768 MB
    Bus Speed: 167 MHz
    Boot ROM Version: 4.6.8f4
    Serial Number: W833584RPJH

    GeForce FX 5200:

    Chipset Model: GeForce FX 5200
    Type: Display
    Bus: AGP
    VRAM (Total): 64 MB
    Vendor: nVIDIA (0x10de)
    Device ID: 0x0329
    Revision ID: 0x00a2
    ROM Revision: 2068

    Type systems?

  116. Zi Ree says:

    @103 Murry: They say this is fixed in the latest RC.

  117. U M says:

    Not everyone is happy with this release……If this is the end result we are in deep…….

  118. Raven Primeau says:

    Deep doodoo UM?

  119. So… Where can I still download the older clients?

    As long as I still can watch movies with them I actually would like to come back for a last few times and meet with some friends in the cinema.

    So, help anyone?

  120. Pepper Haas says:

    In re. IDV: I have absolutely NOTHING to hide, but I will be hornswaggled before I give my personal info to a company that can’t be trusted with it. Besides which, it is illegal for me to give this information under Dutch law.
    And I won’t ever understand why it is that LL or anyone on the adult grid is liable for anything if some kid lies about his age to get in. How about a disclaimer on the login page: This is an adult game. Enter at your own risk. LL is not liabe for damage done to minors entering the adult grid against LL TOS.

  121. http://www.realxtend.org/

    The realxtend-Viewer can run movies again now, if you like me use win2k and don’t have an old original viewer left to install.

  122. uh-oh says:

    Since the upgrade to this new viewer I am having better teleports without crashing. Other than a slow loading friends list, I am having no problems at all.
    As for replacing IDV with some meaningless disclaimer, it is not that easy.
    The small percentage of these role-players that make up the population of Second Life, most of whom are underage and do not belong on the adult grid, they do pose a risk to all of us. Why? It appears that the UK, China, The USA as well as other countries Governments are taking this disturbing content seriously.

    “Belgian police patrols Second Life to prevent rape. Apparently the Brussels Court will be working together with the Federal Computer Crime Unit to “patrol in Second Life” after a virtual rape case that involved a Belgian Second Life user. There are no details at this time about what actually occurred in this case or under what laws these virtual actions would be prosecuted, however the translation of the primary sources allude to a “morals section.” Another translated quote mentioned “the public prosecutor was alarmed,” which may hint at how seriously this case is being taken.”

    Right, it is not just “harmless fun” as an earlier blog post mentioned. These people are a risk to all of us out here. Not to mention that should one of these people who are caught up in this turn out to be underage that just makes it even worse in the eyes of the law. Once again I mention, we can all lose everything we invested into Second Life over the actions of a few people who think this type of behavior is fun.

    So yes, there is a need for IDV, and a need for Linden Labs to enforce both their TOS as well as the laws governing this type of immoral behavior.

  123. Rascal Ratelle says:

    @42

    “If your computer crashes or SL doesnt run good for you it MUST be cuz your computer is crappy. buy a new computer you cheap people!!!!”

    unfortunately that is NOT an option for every one.

    it is NOT our computers, it is SL, the coding and the servers.

  124. Since when has there been a release that everyone was happy with? Not since I have been in SL, anyway. You’re not going to get all those who have a flawless client posting here. For one, I’m not having any of the issues that are mentioned here and I don’t even have a “supported” graphics card and am running on a laptop.

    So far the current RC1 is stable for me – more stable than most of the recent releases.

  125. Sedary Raymaker says:

    @122: “a virtual rape case”

    Nice to see the Belgian police have time to waste on things that are, patently impossible.

    “There are no details at this time about what actually occurred in this case”

    I’m not surprised, because it’s utter nonsense, and the public prosecutor ought to be fired and mocked.

    “These people are a risk to all of us out here.”

    I assume by “these people” you mean “the UK, China, The USA as well as other countries Governments” because those are the only people posing a risk.

    “So yes, there is a need for IDV, and a need for Linden Labs to enforce both their TOS”

    They should start enforcing the TOS first then, instead of letting anybody and their dog sign up, then expecting landowners to keep track of them.

    When are they getting rid of free accounts? People say that requiring a credit card won’t keep out underage players, and that’s true, but it would sure be a significant filter.

    “as well as the laws governing this type of immoral behavior.”

    The immoral behavior of the “the UK, China, The USA as well as other countries Governments”, you mean. The ones putting people in jail for typing on a keyboard.

  126. Raven Primeau says:

    @122 UM flies right off the feild and into the trees with this comment that has nowt to do with the blog

    you say—>The small percentage of these role-players that make up the population of Second Life, most of whom are underage and do not belong on the adult grid, they do pose a risk to all of us. Why?

    What a narrowminded ass you make yourself sound. Roleplay in oh so many forms has always had a significant presence in SL. If not for all the various Roleplay sims and participants SL would be a sad and boring sanitised place.

    You confuse Roleplay with the freesex plague that swept over SL when LL in their hunger and greed flung the gates open and invited the whole world and their kids in to play with no thought of anything but numbers and $.

    Yes there is a problem, I agree, just last week my Fiance reported someone for engaging in age play whilst we were Roleplaying in an open sim, so please dont brand every supposedly underage Roleplayer with the same brush

    And as for virtual rape??? perhaps Mute, or just TP out…

    I agree with almost everything Sedary @125 says and add theres nothing more dangerous than a zealot who believe their actions are for the greater good.

  127. uh-oh says:

    It is not about muting and teleporting out. The reason is because these people bring this type of behavior outside the role-play Sims. I am not talking about role-play in general, but the type involving rape or forced fantasy. I do not agree with this type of content so yes I do not go to those places. Yet I had a group of people from Toxic City standing on my property line yelling about how they wanted to rape both me and my girl friend. I have had people from the Crack Den enter our store bragging about how much fun they had raping one of my real life family members to my friends. Neither place involves role play of any kind nor do any of us have anything to do with it. We abuse report them and they come back as an alt. even more now after they found out about the abuse report in a form of retaliation. This goes to show how this type of role play encourages this type of harassment. You mute or ban them; they create another alt and keep it up. So the old argument about muting, banning or not visiting these types of places does not fly.
    There is not a single argument that holds any water supporting this type of behavior.
    It is illegal, immoral and against the TOS.
    I did a search under Rape in Second Life and found that we are not the only ones this has happened to.
    IDV at the sign in will help stop this type of behavior by preventing the ones caught at it from coming back as an alt and continuing their harassment.

  128. U M says:

    did someone try to say some thing with reguards of using their brain? well it didnt work………..please fike a bug report on your brain wave and let the debug work on your brain…………Opps they did it was not resolved……..

  129. Sedary Raymaker says:

    @127: “Yet I had a group of people from Toxic City standing on my property line yelling about how they wanted to rape both me and my girl friend.”

    Which has zero to do with roleplay.

    It’s harassment you’re complaining about, not RP, and the RP does not lead to harassment…jerks will be jerks will be jerks.

    “We abuse report them and they come back as an alt. even more now after they found out”

    You’re just feeding trolls, in essence, and as long as you keep giving them attention, they’ll keep coming back. I guess my experiences getting bullied as a kid taught me how to deal with this type, and your approach isn’t what I’d do — and it obviously isn’t working for you either.

  130. Xavier Felwitch says:

    @127 Meh IDV will stop nothing….it will just mean little johnny grabs parents drivers licence/SS Number and verifies their account…. how difficult is that?

    Back on topic though, its good to see that LL has listened to the resedents conserns about 1.19.x and after using RC1 last night i would have to say that they are hearding in the right direction as its stability has improved greatly (for my computer at least).

  131. uh-oh says:

    @127 Meh IDV will stop nothing….it will just mean little johnny grabs parents drivers licence/SS Number and verifies their account…. how difficult is that?

    Then when the kid gets caught acting up or caught in some type of illegal activity, it will make it harder for them to create another account and hold their parents liable for their childs actions.

  132. @131 But the still eiesst way is to google for a divers licence, and the only working way to get IDV for us not coming from the “great” country in the west.

    Note that LL numbers in here internal small alpha test group was 1 in five legitimate test failing, and this got “much” worse when putting out to public how much worse they didn’t like to reveal. I Guess in Sweden 1 in 3000 that successes is probably more correct guess, for IDV, Age Verification (the original name of the feature) to work it has to be redone totally from the beginning the current strategy isn’t working it’s just a lie. Putting one head down in the sand and saying now we can know there is no kids, good for them, I find it to be an insult to my intelligence.

  133. U M says:

    Anyother thought about Drivers, Passports, etc ID(s)…….. Hows does LL even know if its the users putting in the data is the same person? You really don`t………So you have a strong point…..

  134. space rockett says:

    Seems to me like i arrived in one of George A. Romano films “Night Of The Living Dead” people seem happy to let lindens do as they please regardless of the cost to their integrity, I Would like to congratulate Lindens for their amazing brainwashing exercise they call Second Life.I too was a zombie sleeping walking to the Linden tune.No longer !!!
    Wake up people !!!!!

    Space Wide Awake Rockett.

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