Changes to the Island transfer process

Linden Lab hasn’t traditionally been involved in resident to resident transfers other than to action the transfer itself upon receiving permission from the buyer and seller. This has meant that residents have had to arrange any payments privately between themselves and this has proven to be problematic at times.

For new transfer requests submitted on or after Monday 10th March we will be enabling the Buyer in an island transfer to pay the Seller through their Second Life account. This will be our default transfer process.

So how will this work?

Both buyer and seller will create support tickets, via the support portal, that detail the region to be transferred and the value they have agreed on. This value can be in either U.S. Dollars (USD) or Linden Dollars (L$). Both sides will also have to confirm other details about the region being transferred.

If both tickets match (ie. they state the same details and value), we will charge the Buyer through their Second Life account, either USD or L$ as specified in the tickets. Once the charge has been successful, we will credit the Seller the same amount minus the transfer fee that we normally charge. The transfer of the region will then go ahead as usual.

The island transfer fee, always payable by the Seller, is USD 100 (or L$28000 for L$ transfers).

This does mean that buyers will have to have valid payment information on file with us (or have the necessary account credit in USD or L$). The ‘Increase Your Credit’ link on the account pages can be used to add USD credit to an account.

If they use PayPal as their payment method – they will need to have their PayPal agreement set to a high enough limit (by default PayPal limits are relatively low).

If the buyer’s payment fails for any reason, then the transfer will be cancelled and no action taken. Both accounts must also be in good standing (not delinquent) for the transfer to take place.

We hope that this will make the process of transferring islands quicker, safer and more reliable for both buyers and sellers. If you have any questions, please contact the concierge team.

This entry was posted in Announcements & News, Concierge. Bookmark the permalink.

65 Responses to Changes to the Island transfer process

  1. Xplorer Cannoli says:

    WELL DONE Linden Lab! This is taking the extra step neccesary to help ensure safe transactions for both buyer and seller. 🙂 Thank you!

  2. concerned says:

    Well done LL this has been a long time coming.Thanks for adding security to Island transfers.

  3. Alecx Writer says:

    Yah well done !!!

  4. Janie Matahari says:

    FINALLY… everyone gets really nervous with these transactions, equivalent to handshakes. the world is much bigger now and this is very necessary

  5. Elvis Orbit says:

    Great move! I have always been afraid to by a used sim because of no way to conform the transfer 100%. This is a big help.
    Thanks

  6. Emily Darrow says:

    This is great news. Thank you.

  7. Sedary Raymaker says:

    US$100 seems pretty steep for what should be 30 seconds of work, but I’m not complaining. It’s a vastly better system regardless.

  8. Ivantwin Rogers says:

    weee. thats is a cool change!!

  9. Phil Priestman says:

    Does this mean the eventual demise of the landbot parasites?

  10. Desmond Shang says:

    YES! Smart, smart, smart move.

    You’ve upped the integrity level of the whole grid by doing this.

  11. OMG ! I Can’t believe this ! LL really decided to defeat the interest of ppls ! Everytime I see changes in policy usually is to prohibit somethign and let dozens of ppls upset…but for this time…LL really rox ! The good news that LL don’t posted was: Now, you can negotiate with residents selling more cheap that the 1675 US$ that we charge from you ! LOL

  12. So this means that inorder to get the money from SL it still will take 3 weeks for the seller to recieve payments. Its a good move for people you don’t trust, but the company I am involded in has transfered enough sims and has a good rep. Its a move in the right direction.

  13. Chance Unknown says:

    ABOUT DAMNED TIME.

  14. Lorelei Mission says:

    This is a great idea – thank you so much! I was a little nervous back when I bought an island direct from another SLer and had to pretty much hand over the money, cross my fingers and hope it was all for real… This is a welcome change to the system.

  15. U M says:

    A first! The taking action with those cheater estate owners!

    Woohooooooooooooooooo wonderful

  16. WarKirby Magoijiro says:

    Will using this new process be an option, or mandatory for all island transfers?

  17. nopaymentinfo says:

    (or have the necessary account credit in USD or L$).

    so no Premium account is needed for it?

    sounds good.

    and if am right, please delete the value from profile:

    payment information on file

  18. Ivantwin Rogers says:

    lovely, poor grifers stolens and bots

  19. Charlene Trudeau says:

    Thank you. This was the one thing I wanted from LL after having been scammed by someone who sold their region to several people. I knew the money was gone, just wanted it never to happen to anyone else…. so, anyone have a region they want to sell after the 10th?

  20. Gigs Taggart says:

    Warkirby I don’t see how it could possibly be mandatory. You can always enter the ticket with 1L as the transfer price and do it the old way, unless Linden Lab wants to make it impossible to just give an island to someone.

    Anyway this is a great move. I think it is better than messing with any third party escrow service. As someone who has lost a lot of money to island scammers, I thank you at LL.

  21. #10 – as long as an avatar can purchase a parcel of land, there will be landbots. Honestly, I don’t see why it’s such an issue – you put your land for sale, somebody or something (a bot) buys it. In the event that you had to sell off all your land – a cleverly written landbot could quickly expedite the process. Linden labs has fixed many of the security issues that were the root cause of landbot land theft. Gone are the days when a bot can take your land in an instant for 0LS, now if you lose your land at an unbelievably low price it is no longer the bot to blame.

    There are commerce systems everywhere on the web and there are usually some form of bot in use on those systems. There are bots that buy super cheap things on eBay and resell them so fast they can simply put the customers address on the purchase order. Go into any online RPG and you will find that the gold economy within those games are controlled by companies using scores of bots to ‘farm’ gold. They sell this gold on their websites for an excellent time to value ratio. Perhaps it takes a month to gain 100K gold but you could buy it in an instant for $1.50USD.

    In Second Life there are many types of bots although in passing we only hear about the ‘land bots’. There are bots designed to be AI controlled combatants, bots that scour the grid creating lists of items they find for sale, bots that build mathematical structures, bots that take snapshots and create photo albums… I’m sure you get the point. What I’m saying is, don’t blame the bot. If the bot is doing immoral things, it’s because the author wanted it that way. Evil bots? I say evil programmer ; p

  22. DoctorEigen Flow says:

    It’s all very interesting, and as long as alternative transfer methods are still allowable, a step in the right direction. Although what I am really ! interested in, is this sentence, “Both sides will also have to confirm other details about the region being transferred.”… what other ‘details’ is LL speaking of? And, shouldn’t these ‘details’ have a say in any land transfer, especially if those ‘details’ have paid rent up front? The ‘two parties’, buyer and seller are typically ONLY part of the people involved in such transactions. In RL, in order to transfer real property, investigations of what liens and claims are held, are essential!…

    I think there needs to be a ‘system’ in place, for third party claims to be ‘handled’, BEFORE a final deed transfer occurs. Too many ‘little people’ or rather, ‘details’, are ignored and abandoned during large land transfers in general… A SLegal court system, would be an immense step in the right direction to handle this these issues, and the rest too! SL is vended from American soil, so while most citizens seem to be from other countries, American Constitutional Rights need to be protected at the least!

  23. Well done !!

    A long needed change.

    Gone are the days of selling your sim 5 times 🙂

  24. Anthony Beatty says:

    BOUT TIME amount of cash ive lost cause of these theifs im glad to see u listened for once thanks

  25. Vittorio Beerbaum says:

    GOOD!!! I were in the process of finding a SIM for a friend, and that was the only “black hole” in the process, now u have a safe way to buy the whole island without using a dice to decide who of both parties have to pay first, open the ticket first, confirm it or whatever. Hurra!

  26. U M says:

    No, sooner or later LANDBOTS will be outlawed as well…….

  27. Digital Digital says:

    Wow! This makes me feel so happy and feel much safer in doing Private Island buying! Thank for this it helps out a lot 🙂

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  29. Mari says:

    Good move on LL’s part. The Sheriff has came to town.

    Does Linden hold a California Dept. of Corporation’s license as an escrow company? Is it needed? Do they need to comply with California’s Escrow Law?

    CALIFORNIA CODES
    FINANCIAL CODE
    SECTION 17000-17010

    http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/calaw.html

    Selfish question- want LL’s time spent making me look more beautiful and my inventory load faster–and not talking to lawyers. 🙂

  30. Kudos! Well done. This was badly needed.

  31. Nice way of thinking, cool move indeed..

    Also,please create official “business contract form” for inworld agreements between residents. Kinda like permission system.

    When they are signed electronicaly by both resident , you can keep that form on their profile as a proof of their agreement. I believe it will be very handy tool for inworld economy.

    Best.

  32. Very good move! And what I find interesting: if the transfer is done in L$, the transfer fee will be charged in L$! Is that the first step to make payments to LL possible in L$, without the need to change available L$ into USD first? Now that would be great too…

  33. Ina Pidgeon says:

    YEAH!!! Thanks Lindens, this way my fear of being one of the six buyers for the same island is gone 🙂

  34. Tegg B says:

    Nulflux Negulesco Says:
    #10 – as long as an avatar can purchase a parcel of land, there will be landbots. Honestly, I don’t see why it’s such an issue – you put your land for sale, somebody or something (a bot) buys it. In the event that you had to sell off all your land – a cleverly written landbot could quickly expedite the process. Linden labs has fixed many of the security issues that were the root cause of landbot land theft. Gone are the days when a bot can take your land in an instant for 0LS, now if you lose your land at an unbelievably low price it is no longer the bot to blame.

    Since when? So you are telling people that it is perfectly safe from bots to transfer land at $0L?
    You tested this yourself on the mainland I assume?

    There are commerce systems everywhere on the web and there are usually some form of bot in use on those systems. There are bots that buy super cheap things on eBay and resell them so fast they can simply put the customers address on the purchase order. Go into any online RPG and you will find that the gold economy within those games are controlled by companies using scores of bots to ‘farm’ gold. They sell this gold on their websites for an excellent time to value ratio. Perhaps it takes a month to gain 100K gold but you could buy it in an instant for $1.50USD.

    In Second Life there are many types of bots although in passing we only hear about the ‘land bots’. There are bots designed to be AI controlled combatants, bots that scour the grid creating lists of items they find for sale, bots that build mathematical structures, bots that take snapshots and create photo albums… I’m sure you get the point. What I’m saying is, don’t blame the bot. If the bot is doing immoral things, it’s because the author wanted it that way. Evil bots? I say evil programmer ; p

  35. Bradley Bracken says:

    Wow! Thank you LL. I’m happy to see you once again attempt to prevent corruption in SL while still maintaining a distance in the overall lives of residents. Well done!

  36. McCabe Maxsted says:

    Of course you STILL offer no means of transferring islands when the original buyer is unable to access Second Life anymore, for example if they were arrested for a crime and sent to jail (in this case, child pornography).

    Emailed support. Emailed Lindens. Met Lindens, talked to them directly, was assured something could be done. In the end? Out $800 USD because LL wouldn’t let us take over the island, even though he was rotting in prison for trading pics of little girls and all payments from him had stopped.

    I don’t know what was worse. Finding out that about someone’s secret life like that, losing a freshly bought sim, or banging our heads against the wall as we tried to deal with LL to keep the sim alive (it’s now long since gone).

    Maybe not for some people, but $800 USD is a lot, and to lose your sim because your business partner is secretly a sick fuck is just the worst. LL offers no protection for your land if your business partner suddenly gets arrested, or hospitalized, or has their account canceled, no matter how much time and effort you’ve invested into your sim. If it’s in their name and LL doesn’t receive $$, they’ll close you down just like we were closed down.

    If you’re reading this announcement and thinking to yourself, “Wow, I should get some people together and buy that island we’ve always wanted,” make sure you really trust everyone involved. Sometimes, no matter how much you think you know someone…. you don’t.

  37. Damona Rau says:

    That means also, that european buyers have now to pay VAT for this transfer?

    Sounds like a new way to make more money and the europeans have one more time the bad cards.

    Don’t know if this is the best idea and solution.

  38. Rene Erlanger says:

    Well done Lindens, I mentioned a similar method back in Jan 08 on Resident Answers forum

    http://forums.secondlife.com/showthread.php?p=1849271#post1849271

    so i’m glad LL has taken a similar approach to alleviate more land dealing fraud.

  39. Spank Lovell says:

    Actually Damona has a good point there. Are Europeans going to be charged VAT on the transfer fee of $100?

    Thats something I had not considered.

    Its a VERY good move though.

  40. Thank you very much. After being the victim of such fraud, it is nice to know that others will not have to through such a heart agonizing ordeal or the expense of obtaining a third party to coordinate such a transaction. Of course my lesson cost me $1675US.

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  42. Now *this* is a great idea!

    Even though we all are adults… there’s always that little niggly doubt in there and butterflies in the stomach when you manually transfer that much money to someone before the tickets are put in.

  43. Mercia McMahon says:

    Excellent, I know one organisation that was put off an island purchase because “you cannot sell an island” meaning you cannot sell an island and be guaranteed to receive the money. This removes a major disincentive to island purchase, so it certainly will not hit LL island sales, quite the opposite, even if there is a short-term impact as those who were wary of selling can now do so.

  44. Fellatione Aabye says:

    For starters you got to be out of your mind to buy an Island from an unknown Resident without advice of Linden Labs.

    Fraud .. well .. as long as Linden Currency can be changed to RL Currency there will be fraud …. no matter what Linden Labs will do to prevent … very good idea in any case …

    And as I already saw there is more Fraud done by residents with payment info than those with no payment info … (as most camping bots or bots to boost their traffic etc are owned by residents with payment info .. could be called a fraud too )

  45. Cliff Dieffenbach says:

    I find it funny that people are complaining about this policy. Apparently they haven’t lost from $500-well over $1k to scammers, then left with “sorry, that’s between the two of you”.

    At least now when you pay you KNOW you’re getting your island. Of course, the only time you had that level of confidence previously is if you bought it directly from LL.

    Well done LL & more importantly, thank you for picking up that ball & providing an avenue where residents don’t have to worry about “the stupid” within the game.

  46. Darren Oates says:

    Great LL seems to be moving with the platform as most users have found loopholes ect over the years these need adressing.
    Hope you guys finally look at mainland where people are loosing land due to Landbots mostly when they try to transfere their land from group for 1ls and then the Bots grab it because they simply didnt know that they had to sell it to their name I would say around 15 people aday are loosing their land to Bots. Furthermore they carnt even speak to a Landbot as the landbots are just automated programs. Anyway good 1st Step 🙂

  47. mm .. transactions can go through bank check or paypal and are that way protected , disputes can be opened and chargeback possible , linden is not able to offer this security , sorry and they also find a way to charge the whole transaction on top of the hundred for transfer .. a kind of notary act and registered book of transactions is the only legal solution , tier linden takes is much more than enough to offer it for free , and i never saw them do anything when their costumers were stolen . we know many cases where crooks have never been stopped by linden even with evidence of paypal dispute and internet fraud claims
    same thing for fake bankers , they are supposed to be out of business from january 21Th but many of them buy full islands and follow up with their monkey thing and of course did not pay their clients
    linden you behiave a very hypocrit way and this is unfair and not businesslike ,you cannot claim for morality if you protect thieves

  48. Dix says:

    Could this also be a way of dodging VAT charges for EU based residents who want to purchase a new sim? Imagine a USA based company or resident trading in new sims for EU residents. Buying without VAT or Sales Tax, then selling it to an EU resident in L$ for the price of the sim, plus the L$28k transfer fee, plus a small commission for the trader.

    An EU resident can buy L$ without being charged VAT, but he usually has to pay VAT on the price of the sim itself. Obviously, this wouldn’t work for the VAT on the tier, only on the buying price. But this could still save a few hundred US$, depending on where you are in the EU. Anybody know if there are already exempt residents (non-EU) who offer these services?

    Kudos for LL to implementing this possibility. Even regardless of consequences for taxes. Keep up the good work Lindens …

  49. Ralph Doctorow says:

    Very good decision.

  50. Lilly Zenovka says:

    Well done ! Another way to get $100 ! Great job, thanx LL.

  51. @49: The $ 100 transfer fee were always in place, that’s nothing new at all.

  52. Relic Starbrook says:

    THANK YOU!!!!!

  53. Good action !

    1 question. Erhmm wasn’t L$ 27000 not 100 USD ? LOL

  54. tamara83 iuga says:

    I hope that is new land sales procedure is now running.
    In error we placed our land for sale to anyone, but a land bot within seconds bought the land at 10linden to sell at 30k linden.
    Thank you to Jack Linden for the amendment to the land sales rules, I hope now Linden will also stop Bots being able to purchase land.
    All the honest population of SL would be very happy for this change and the banning of such ‘builders’.
    thank you

    [edited to remove personal comments re. other residents]

  55. Gumby Roffo says:

    WOOOOT!!
    Well done LL. A very positive step in the relm of reducing customer complaints about Res to Res tranactions.
    I rate this policy change 5 stars and a ” Hungry Happy Hippo Stamp”

  56. Zagro says:

    umm folks this isnt to stop landbots.
    its for island transfers not plot sails 🙂

    (i like it it’s a good move)

    Next in security 🙂
    Barter Window 🙂
    for when ya trading nocopy items
    or selling them (shows owner auther contents exct in a barter window.

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  58. Tmos says:

    SWEEEET! This is really a positive thing.

  59. Delicious Demar says:

    Bravo! This is a wonderful enhancement of island transfers. As someone who has been bit by the uncertainty of doing the payment for transferred islands outside of the Linden Labs umbrella, I can attest that it can be a hit-or-miss proposition at times. I am thrilled that LL is getting in the middle of this.

    I would also just want to give a general shout-out to the Concierge Team! You guys totally rock – and even when we give you too much business (hehe) you have consitently responded with professionalism, courtesy, and best of all, alacrity! Thanks so much for all that you do for us. Your team certainly understands the meaning of customer service. 🙂

    DD

  60. Wow, this is really fantastic. THANK YOU!!!

  61. Ciaran Laval says:

    This great news Jack and something that is very positive. This should aid the sale of islands greatly.

    However, if people can pay their transfer fees in L$, why can’t I pay tier in L$? You’d save me a shed load of VAT that way!

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  65. JR Unknown says:

    My hats off to you Jack!! This was the one thing that I have asked for that hadn’t been taken care of so now all I can say is in my opinion you have fixed all the major pitfalls. Thank you for listening to residents and taking care of business yet again!! Great job LL and you personally Jack!!

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