537 Havok4 Early Adopter Regions Refreshed with 6 Fixes (2008-02-28)

Quick Status

537 Early Adopter regions have been updated to Havok4 Beta Server v1.19.0.80517.

This version resolves a set of key issues, and includes a performance optimization that we hope will make a noticeable difference for regions that have many avatars present. See the “What Has Changed In This Version” section below for the specific list of changes deployed today.

This version is the version we started to deploy last week, with the addition of a fix for the problem of not being able to land on some prim surfaces.

What Has Changed In This Version?

Changes in this build include (SVC items were submitted on the public jira issue tracker / DEV items are internally discovered issues / there are a few in this list that were fixed without jira tracking #’s…).

Known Issues

(This build has a few known open issues, but we decided that the fixes were too important to hold the release. These issues will be worked on for the next release):

* Personal Hugger (90 sec), LostDog Hugz Sphere and probably other hugger attachments do not align correctly. This will be fixed for the next update, but is not fixed in this release. The symptom you will see is that hugging avatars may not stop at the right distance and be noticeably too close together. NOTE: Non-hug/contact animations such as dance balls and poseballs are unaffected by this problem.

* Sit targets still need work so that sit positions are more similar to Havok1-based simulators* Descending elevators still suffer jerky motion.

Issue Resolutions

DEV-10732 Avatars no longer slide when landing on prims

DEV-10858 Can now land on 150m x 150m x 3 megaprim from flying

SVC-1541: Rez-at-root now working properly, so that old linkset order rules are recognized. This particular bug prevented vendors on one region from delivering specific products.

SVC-1089: Avatar inertia no longer ends abruptly while jumping (continued tuning of this bug)

SVC-”many” :): llTargetOmega now starts, stops and changes speed while a root or child prim of an attachment. After lots of work on this, we believe that TargetOmega finally really really works, actually more completely than it ever did on Second Life. (Now that I’ve said this, I’m sure you’ll find yet another break case, but please be kind… I think Kelly may throw something out the window if this fix isn’t “really completely done”! Just kidding about that, but we do think this resolution is at the finish line as best we can tell.)

SVC-1468: Megaprims set to physical are no longer phantom for the last 1-2m at the edges

DEV-10469: Max speed for llSetVehicleVectorParam(VEHICLE_LINEAR_MOTOR_DIRECTION, <vector>); has been increased from 40 to 256. Now you can get a vehicle to go faster without adding impulses and other tricks. NOTE: We know that this will “break” some older vehicles in that they will go faster on Havok4-based simulators. The clear choice of the beta test group was to enable faster speeds to support better future products in this case.

DEV-10862/SVC-1647: Physical objects no longer ignore collisions with avatars

DEV-10573: Improved performance and FPS of Havok4-based simulators in some high load cases

Best regards,

Sidewinder Linden
Program Manager

P.S. Please keep posts on topic for the Havok4 Early Adopter Program.

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43 Responses to 537 Havok4 Early Adopter Regions Refreshed with 6 Fixes (2008-02-28)

  1. mant says:

    very cool i cant wait for the official release good work sidewinder!

  2. Captain Noarlunga says:

    The way this whole project has been handled is excellent. When it rolls out grid-wide I hope the same team are responsible for maintaining and tweaking it. Sidewinder and his team are to be congratulated on a highly professional implementation. Now lets hope some of this attitude rubs off on the rest of LL.

  3. So this means Linden Lab supports Mega Prims now?
    I see alot of fixes for stuff that was said to not be supported by Linden Lab.

    Thanks You! I am not going to complain, But I would like an anwser.

    ~ Soma

  4. Just curious as to roughly how long it takes to add a region to the early adopter program? I put in the support ticket request a couple days ago for one of my regions and haven’t seen any updates to it yet. Thank you to all the Havok4 team!

  5. Sidewinder Linden says:

    #3 Somatika: We don’t support megaprims as a full feature. They do exist and if you can locate them we will not remove them. Megaprims over 256m on a side will be reduced to that size. There are no megaprim creation tools and none will be added with this project… The rest is a matter of dictionary definitions, eh? /Sidewinder

  6. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @4 Atashi: I am not sure what the backlog is. The concierge team does Havok4 conversions along with their normal work, so it may take a few days. If you haven’t heard by tomorrow you might want to ping your concierge to see what’s up… /Sidewinder

  7. Kelly Linden says:

    @3 The mega prim part of that bug was a red herring. The real issue was with objects that were constantly colliding with more than 1 other object (such as floors with many people standing on them). The megraprim jira was just one of the jiras filed for it.

    That said, what we mean when we say we don’t support them is that we don’t let you make new ones, and we can’t guarantee that they will always work as they have. For example in havok4 any megaprims with a dimension larger than 256m will have that dimension clamped down to 256m. Some day we hope to have official support for mega prims which means there will be tools to make and use them (and estate tools to control their use probably) and there will be expected behaviors that we will try extra hard not to change. That day isn’t here yet though. 🙂

  8. Will phasing of vehicles thru rail collision based steering be addressed?
    Just curious if im the only one suffering from this bug.

  9. Cheshyr Pontchartrain says:

    Looks like we’re really close to release on this one. The one nagging issue I’m still experiencing is heavy lag from llVolumeDetect(). Phantom, physical objects (aquarium fish) which worked fine in Havok1 generate so much lag in Havok4 I had to delete them from the sim.

    Any idea when or if this will be resolved?

  10. Lars Donardson says:

    @Sidewinder & Kelly

    Thank you guys for clearing up open questions and NOT retreating into your shells like some other *no names here from me to avoid being blamed for bullying* do.

    “llTargetOmega now starts, stops and changes speed while a root or child prim of an attachment…..I think Kelly may throw something out the window if this fix isn’t “really completely done”

    I keep all fingers and toes crossed that the former bit is true…although I can relate to Kelly’s notion…hehe

    BTw…what is he thinking of throwing out…the ‘resolved stickers’ *giggles heavily*

    I may be bitching at ya guys when stuff goes poof on my end or inventory ‘evaporates into limbo’ but still… you guys rock 🙂

    Keep on ya good work

  11. Sascha says:

    Great llTargetOmega really works now :))

  12. Oceanna Shannon says:

    Still have a walker device that won’t work even under 517. Its a circular walking device the av sits on. Sadly my scripting ability is a little weaker than my building, bu i will send an IM/notecard in world.


  13. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @8 Sabine: I hadn’t seen that bug as it was classified as viewer. We’ll talk about this at a team meeting to see where we are with it. It would be helpful if you could try this on the current Havok4 build (just deployed) to see if it is already fixed – on first inspection of the bug, without having seen the vehicle involved, I wonder if this is already repaired by other bug fixes that we have already done. Thanks, Sidewinder

  14. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @9 Cheshyr: Does this still happen with the release deployed today? /Sidewinder

  15. yuriko nishi says:

    bikes still dip their nose/raise their rear when steering.
    prim seams still make land vehicles jump way to much. (this is very important to fix)
    and my animated prim skirt brings h4 sims to 30 fps 🙂

    the vehicle speed increase is a good thing, though i think it´s way too fast, the vehicles start to “warp” or “jump” forward if it gets too fast for the sim/network, but we can always limit the vehicles now and dont need 🙂

    great work from the h4 team, but i still think it´s not ready for rollout atm (just my 2 cents)

  16. Andromeda Quonset says:

    For the record, my elevators, which work fine in Havok1, do not work in Havok4, and I have yet to figure out what to change in the engine script to make them work.

  17. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @16 Andromeda: We have an open bug on the elevator issue. It is in the queue for work, but has not yet been resolved. /Sidewinder

  18. Andromeda Quonset says:

    Ok, that sounds promising, then. Thanks! I have been pleased with the Havok4 otherwise. Elevators are my only “vehicle”, and I have several deployed on the main grid 🙂

  19. Sean Heying says:

    Swimmers not working (SVC-1282) and the HUD detach bug (SVC-1517) still happen. I guess the latter won’t matter if all regions on the grid are H4, but Swimmers are very important to us as SL Kids.

    ((Please hold off refreshing the Beta grid with a new snapshot until the inventory team finish trying to import my SL Eaten Huddle. The Beta grid contains the only existing copy of 14 months of collection))

  20. Sean Heying says:

    DOH SVC-1281 for the swimmer.

  21. Tryptofaa Sands says:

    Hmm, LLTargetOmega… I’ve been playing with this recently, and one issue isn’t clear to me when I look up its behavior on the wiki… I’m aware that when non-physical, movement is client side only, and if placed in a child prim, movement is only seen in that prim. However… when made physical, the entier object rotates, whether it’s in the root or a child prim. I would have thought this would only happen when in the root prim, even when it’s physical, otherwise there is no way to make prims appear to be rotating on say, a vehicle. I also know this COULD work, because in the normal sims if I set targetomega going, then make the vehicle physical, then stop targetomega again…due to its failure to stop correctly it still appeared to rotate without the whole vehicle spinning round. If this was a part of the problems, it was certainly a desirable part for me, as a way to rotate prims client side only on physical vehicles is badly needed for many effects, in my case for a rotor, but various others come to mind. Wheels for a start! Could you please clear this up for me? 🙂

    While I’m here I may as well also mention, the vehicle Ipm playing with, when boarded and set to phantom, can go under ground. I’m pretty sure it’s not meant to do that, and it keeps getting returned when I crash into a mountain or flying too low, hehe!

  22. Argent Stonecutter says:

    @Sidewinder: does this mean I can take the warning on my megaskybox off? Currently I have a note that it’s only for private estates with the permission of the estate owner, because it uses 3 fairly modest 40 meter megaprims.

  23. When are we gonna see HAVOK released to the main grid?? I hope this improves the grid & makes it much better….

  24. Wow, what awesome progress.

    I also put in a ticket to early adopter, but I figure by the time the poor, overworked Concierge team gets to me, it’ll be rolled out to the grid. LOL

    Thanks Sidewinder and Kelly!

  25. Elvis Orbit says:

    Ran a big event today on my sim and it work great and FPS is much better! Thanks so much for the hard work!

  26. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @19 Sean: There is a comment at the bottom of SVC-1282 by serpy palen that says “By the release of H4 beta in main grid the issue seem to be already resolved. Thanks !” Have you tested and found a different result?

    Uhh Sean: “Please hold off refreshing the Beta grid with a new snapshot until the inventory team finish trying to import my SL Eaten Huddle. The Beta grid contains the only existing copy of 14 months of collection” WHAAAAT??? Who and how is involved with this? There are many people involved with inventory… This is currently scheduled to run Monday AM PST…


  27. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @20 Sean: Oops – 1281 – saw that one after replying… That looks like another one that we’ve seen recently as well. I missed importing that one – sorry… In now… /Sidewinder

  28. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @22 Argent: I suppose given the number of times that Andrew, Kelly and I have described what you will be able to do with megaprims with Havok4, that it just might not need so stern a warning 😉 /Sidewinder

  29. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @25 Elvis: That’s great to hear. Thanks, Sidewinder

  30. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @21 Tryptofaa: SVC-1700 relates to this problem, and we’ve already imported it and will look at it. Thanks, Sidewinder

  31. Jennifer Brennon says:

    Wonderful work on the Havok 4 Engine. I’m very impressed with the system already seeming to have many advantages over the standard servers. I do wonder if you have a release schedule for havok 4 hitting the main grid?

  32. Monk Zymurgy says:

    I have discovered that prims created in a H1 sim do not trigger a collision_start() event when VOLUME_DETECT,TRUE is set..if a new prim is created in a H4 sim and the exact script copied into its inventory, the collision event is triggered perfectly. This may break many products when taken into H4 sims.

  33. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @32 Monk: Is the issue here that H1 behavior is incorrect, and the correct H4 behavior could break products that rely on the broken H1 behavior? (I’m trying to make sure I understand whether this is a bug fix or a “you fixed a bug and that might break things” issue 🙂 /Sidewinder

  34. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @31 Jennifer: We haven’t finalized a release schedule, but we are working on it. I will be publishing the details as soon as I can be more specific without guessing! /Sidewinder

  35. Loco Rau says:

    “Avatars no longer slide when landing on prims” and what about sliding when landing at ground?

    And HEPS diving equipment doesn’t works fine with this version, and they did with 79818

  36. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @35 Loco: Could you send IM me in-world so to arrange a time when I can see the issue and pick up the id of that product? Thanks, Sidewinder

  37. Alisha Matova says:

    Hi Sidewinder, *waves*
    I have a small concern.

    SVC-1477 is a bug where temp. prims count against the PARCEL count. This will breaks many wands that rez temporary art and environments, as well as most holovenders.

    This bug is similiar to SVC-1166 (havok 1). This is where temp prims are counted against the SIM total.

    Due to this similarity my report was initially closed as a dup. Now it has been reopened now by worried holovender users.

    I have thought about this a bit. Is this a new feature? If so, it would stop the abuse of rerezzers. i.e. people rerezzing more temporary
    objects than their parcel allows. erm, but at the expense of breaking a few things.

    Thanks Sidewinder 🙂


  38. Saskia McLaglen says:

    Hi Sidewinder

    Further to my earlier communication. The avatar sliding down a slope issue is still apparent in our H4 region. I also found a jira on it..found here


    Please let me know if you need any more info.

    Thanks hun 🙂

  39. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @38 Saskia: Thanks… I had thought the slide “adjusted” back to the same spot, rather than inching down the slope. I’ll talk with the team about it this week, although this one is not nearly as trivial to fix as it “seems like it ought to be”… (just setting expectations a bit). /Sidewinder

  40. Zi Ree says:

    Siggy’s Diving Board Deluxe doesn’t work correctly on Havok 4: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-1701

  41. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @37 Alisha: That problem has, I believe, been resolved, but the fix has not been deployed yet. It will likely be in a build this week or next week. /Sidewinder

  42. Alisha says:

    Thank You Sidewinder 🙂

    Sorry to be a worrier, and make You look up something that has been fixed. I do feel much better now though:P

    Hooooo! for the Havok team!!! seriously , You deserve cake.

    Now that You are close to “integrated”, could it be the right time to ask what New features could be “integrated” in with Havok 4? ….Maybe just a hint?

    Thanks again for responding 🙂


  43. Greho Otaared says:

    Is the upper extent of the sim still being raised to 1024 meters? That being the case, when will we see building tools function normally between 768 meters and 1024 meters? And I think I remember seeing a comment about scripts not yet being able to work properly in that altitude range?

    Thanks so much for all the improvements!

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