Mono Beta Refresh 3

The Mono regions on the beta grid were updated with a new simulator binary today that resolves the following issues:

* SVC-1360 Lists do not retain Key type
* SVC-1356 List assignments treated as references.
* SVC-1369 Depending on complexity a script may be rezzed not running.
* SVC-1448 List operations have side effects in Mono.
* SVC-1340 llXorBase64StringsCorrect() will not compile. llXorBase64Strings() does.
* SVC-1345 UThread injection failed – llReleaseCamera.
* SVC-1347 Scripts stop running silently after sim border crossing.
* SVC-1515 Searching multiple lists with llListFindList appends the lists.
* SVC-1323 llPlaySound/llTriggerSound fail.

This update includes some changes that are incompatible with some existing Mono scripts. If you see runtime errors produced by Mono scripts compiled before this refresh, see if recompiling the scripts resolves the issue.

We hope to see you at the office hours in Sandbox Goguen MONO on the beta grid on Wednesdays at 8AM and Fridays at 3PM.

About babbagelinden

Software Engineer at Linden Lab
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41 Responses to Mono Beta Refresh 3

  1. Liny Odell says:

    And the Beta Grid is yet STILL off limits to teens. How do you expect to have everyone that wants to test mono be able to test it… Next update could you include some TG sims so we can have some fun also? There are PLENTY of good scripters here as well.

    /me files issue on the fact that the beta is unavailable.

    -Liny

  2. WarKirby Magoijiro says:

    Right behind the havok update. It’s almost like you guys are competing : )

  3. tina says:

    ok i need some help! i cant get the game to work . was working 2 nights ago … now i try to log in , then it takes me to a second life crash logger and will not open ,im new to this game ,love the game plz!! can you help me …and can i get a number to call ~tina

  4. Abigail Merlin says:

    @2 I think they want to get mono ready to roll out in early adoptor program as soon as havok 4 goes mainstream.

  5. Blinders Off says:

    Where do we find the details on Mono for use in SL? (where’s the Wiki?). 😀

    Would like to study up on this before it hits the grid.

  6. Periapse Linden says:

    Liny (and other TG residents): Right now the beta grid is really focused on Havok4. For Mono we are only using one host, four regions. Soon, though, Havok4 will not need so much of the beta grid and we will expand the Mono beta offerings. Our plan is to bring up two Teen Grid regions. They will be adjacent regions so that you can test region crossings with scripted attachments and vehicles. When we do, I’ll start holding a TG office hour on the beta grid, so that you can come and give direct feedback. Stay tuned!

  7. Blinders Off says:

    OK, from what I understand so far (correct me if I’m wrong) MONO is basically an understructure that allows 64K coding instead of 16k? Other than that, the language syntax remains the same?

    Bleh. Love the 64k thing. But was hoping to get away from the cumbersome LsL syntax and concepts.

  8. Foxxe Wilder says:

    well I’d like to take this opportunity to thank the “support crew” for wiping out my dances – 45 of them and NONE work…. geez… hire some professionals for pete’s sake, these know-it-all children that you have don’t know SQUAT!!

  9. WarKirby Magoijiro says:

    @7 It will also massively speed up script execution, and apparently offer the ability to write scripts in other languages in the future.

  10. Argent Stonecutter says:

    It’s complex.

    Mono will speed up many scripts, mostly not by more than a few times, and a few scripts will be sped up significantly. It will make little detectable difference to most… because most scripts are not limited by the performance of the virtual machine, and will likely slow some down… because the Mono virtual machine has more per-script overhead than the LSL one. The existing LSL virtual machine will also be retained for the foreseeable future.

    Scripts compiled into CIL are larger than in the current LSL, but only the amount of memory actually required for the script is allocated, up to a limit of 64k. This means that small scripts compiled into mono will go down in size, large scripts will get bigger.

    The biggest win will probably be due to the fact that most scripts use far less than the 16k assigned to them, so instead of 1000 poseball scripts taking up 16M of RAM in the simulator, they may take as little as 1M (numbers off the top of my head).

  11. Liny Odell says:

    Thanks!

    -Liny

  12. ♫ This means nothing to meeeeeeeeeeeee, oh Viennaaaaaaaaaaaaa ♫

    I’m sorry, I know that’s terribly unprofessional, but I couldn’t resist =)

    And it’s true.

    But hey, keep up the good work!

  13. coventina dalgleish says:

    Oh this sounds great improve and break typical a little more warning to the scripter’s might have been a nice touch I am sure they will all appreciate the modification in the future just not the way it seems to have been implemented. A quick question last night I dropped lockmeister scripts in new cuffs today i returned to find them missing. Is this a by product of this or just typical asset server game incompetence?

    I realize this is a beta but a little more prescience would be a great plus

  14. coventina, you sure they weren’t auto returned? Or if it was in a sandbox, auto deleted?

    I honestly see no problems with opening the beta grid up to the teen grid as well. Most of the areas are PG in nature anyhow, and the majority of testers protest mature content when it’s presented (in my experience anyways). I think it’s a good opportunity for both the “youngin’s” and the “elderly” to get together and break the grid as a team. >)

    Addendum:
    Ha, WordPress says I’m submitting my first post too quickly.

  15. Ryu Darragh says:

    One point to remember with MONO not touched on is it is also intended to work with Havoc4 a little better than the LSL2 VM does. One change I will be tracking is the over 768m WarpPos system via such LSL as llGetPos(), which does not reliably work over 768m yet. My long range teleports work on Havoc4, but marginally, with LSL2. They work perfectly on Havoc4 *with* MONO. Seems jumps around 4K meters need a bit more memory…

  16. Argent Stonecutter says:

    @13 Coventina: This has not changed the compilation of LSL scripts in the main grid or even in the beta grid UNLESS you compile them with Mono.

    @15 Ryu: When they broke WarpPos last year I found that using multiple scripts running llSetPos() in parallel could produce the same effect. I didn’t roll that out because I trusted Linden Labs to fix it, and they did fix it. In Havok1 my Superporter switches from WarpPos to llApplyImpulse to get past 768 meters (it will already let you rez a skybox at 4000 meters on the main grid), but Havok4 does a better job of capping velocity so that doesn’t work. Good to hear there’s an alternative.

  17. That DeFarge says:

    @12 Catrina – the promise of “mono” is a LOT less lag (by reducing the load on sims caused by everyl script out there)… it should mean a great deal to all of us!! 🙂

  18. Pingback: Second Life Windlight hits release — mrtopf.de

  19. Addy says:

    Why you don’t do a thing at the time? Concentrate first in *LISTEN TO YOUR CUSTOMERS*, and then FIX BUGS, and then FIX WINDLIGHTS as your PAYING customers want, and THEN invent more stuff.

    As it is, it seems you are a bunch of unorganized children trying to play with playmobil, barbie, lego and other games all at same time, playing chess and go at same time, and get things only half-way done, while we keep waiting, paying, waiting, paying.

    We expect a little more seriousness, maturity and sense of good department administration when dealing with a company that deals with other people’s money, and that makes you millionaires…

    …like you care.

  20. Flame Swenholt says:

    Well, nice to see some fixes are being done to the scripting area, but who’s in charge of engnieering that part? I want to give MAJOR kudos to him/her for a great job!

  21. Danball Tureaud says:

    #19: As they have said before, each line of the Second Life program (RC, Windlight, Havok 4, and Mono) are each done by seperate teams.

  22. Sharra says:

    @Addy
    Its very simple.
    A Graphics man can not fix bugs in an physical environment.
    And a websitze-guru can not help the mono-coders.

    So everyone is doing what they paid for.
    And so some are fixing bugs, while others inventing new stuff.

    True, its anoying to see more and more new stuff while the old bugs are still present. But keep in mind, the bugfixing team is still working, and the others are doing theyr work.

  23. Sidonie Larkham says:

    It is positively ridiculous that I cannot tp from place to place, cannot talk to my chat groups, cannot talk to my friends, cannot DO any of the things for which Second Life was purportedly created and yet you Lindens continue to natter on about things that do not seem to be helping anything!

    Jiras, bug reports, etc, are all being ignored for nonsense that only a small portion of the people who create content and keep tihs service going actually want.

    And what are you doing about the rampant content theft going on in sl. NOTHING.

    Please pull your collective digits out of your collective backsides and make the grid WORK. People WILL be taking their money and spending it somewhere else if you don’t, and that’s a fact of life.

  24. Sedary Raymaker says:

    @23: “are all being ignored for nonsense that only a small portion of the people who create content and keep tihs service going actually want.”

    Only a small portion of those people want more stability and less lag? Huh, who knew.

  25. Sidonie Larkham says:

    Obviously Sedary, you only read a piece of my post. How charming.

  26. Phantom Ninetails says:

    “The beta test grid’s database snapshot is from October 30, 2007. If your account is newer than that date, or your password has changed since that date, you will be unable to access the beta test grid.”

    … 😦 Talked to Sidewinder Linden about this in an earlier blog post about this but I’m still not sure what’s going to happen with it.

  27. Storyof Oh says:

    ‘resolved’…add a ‘not’.. to in world issues and add double payments taken after both tagged as ‘timed out’ on screen…..

  28. Yakumo Fujin says:

    @Sidonie: Sedary’s point is, MONO will reduce lag, Havoc 4 will reduce lag and crashes, thus both are helping to “make the grid WORK.”

  29. Lars Donardson says:

    yeah…and crashes up da a**… when editing…who handed out all those ‘resolved’ stickers to you lindens???

  30. Pingback: The Grid Live » Second Life News for February 27, 2008

  31. Wake up in SF please says:

    still crashing on tps…u just don’t have the skills to fix it do u?

  32. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @26 Phantom:

    “… 😦 Talked to Sidewinder Linden about this in an earlier blog post about this but I’m still not sure what’s going to happen with it.”

    Sad face? You asked, and I’m going to get it refreshed… What’s going to happen about the Beta Preview database snapshot is that as soon as the newest Havok4 build is deployed to Second Life Early Adopters it will be refreshed, which will take the Beta Preview offline for probably a day, but will then result in a user account list which is valid as of late this week. /Sidewinder

  33. Sidonie Larkham says:

    All I can see Havok or Mono or any of this doing, as of yet, is create more interruptions as when I most notice interruptions is when I tp or attempt to and then get a “you are in a different server” message.

    Therefore, however much this is *supposed* to be helping, in practice it is not helping at all and my comment stands.

  34. Ryu Darragh says:

    #33 Sidonie, the deployment of Havoc4 on the main grid is to a few test regions where we have less to lose if something goes wrong. Like my own Island, Eragon. These tests allow LL to get real world tests done. When MONO is rolled out onto the main grid, I will be one of the early adopters, if that’s how it’s deployed. Not one of thses is in enough regions on the main grid to make a difference to you yet. What I can tell you is it makes a huge difference otherwise. I have remote and local region monitors deployed in all 22 regions I am admin for and of them all, Eragon is the only one to drop off my crash report map. That bodes well for the grid once Havoc4 goes everywhere.

    As to the rest, rightly or wrongly, when LL went to a web centric system, it meant you are now, more than ever, subject to the whims and foibles of your own ISPs and the ISPs in between you and each other and LL. My own provider, along with many others, is using packet spoofing and out of order delivery and bandwidth shaping to make P2P, like bittorrent, fail and that, along with just plain bad connections, is a real bugger to deal with.

    Our monolithic Asset Server system will, hopefully, be changed to make the one server no longer a bottleneck and then you’ll see that any stability in SL even with a perfect client and server is a miracle given all the parts that LL doesn’t control.

  35. Sean Heying says:

    @ 32 Sidewinder… Nuuuuuuuu! Wait on the refresh for just a little longer, the recent VPN failure happened just when my huddle with almost every sine wave dance in was being taken back into inventory…

    Poof. Gone.

    The beta grid contains the only known copy and they are trying to get if imported back in, please hang off on the import until they do… alot of money and 14 months collecting is at stake.

    PLEASE!

  36. Phantom Ninetails says:

    @32 Sidewinder Linden,
    Ah good to hear, I was just wondering since the conversation died early, before I got to know, before. 🙂 Thanks for clearing that up, I’m looking forward to my first beta grid visit.

    Not sure what to do/say about Sean’s content loss though. Doesn’t sound like this bodes well for him.

  37. Tegg B says:

    Foxxe Wilder Says: well I’d like to take this opportunity to thank the “support crew” for wiping out my dances – 45 of them and NONE work…. geez… hire some professionals for pete’s sake, these know-it-all children that you have don’t know SQUAT!!
    And I’d like to thank you for your 45 dances trying to work crashing WoW on me.
    Perhaps you should write an abdusive message to the cleaners at LL, blame them too.

  38. Mifune Thibaud says:

    Mono is looking and performing quite well, it may even make vehicles useable over the mainland! Great job guys!

    Make sure to test everything and make JIRA reports of any bugs you find:
    (ie: SET_PRIMITIVE_PARAMS not working in vehicles than have crossed several MONO regions over)

  39. Burgess Miles says:

    Since comments are turned off on the issue above this one, In-world issues, I have to comment here. These issues are far from resolved!!! Not at all, I would on the contrary say that they are worse than they have been. Things not rezzing, transactions failing…extreme, extreme lag! Please do something and don’t call things resolved that aren’t, at all!

  40. Amento Burgess says:

    What happened there last night and what is the status now? It is definetely not resolved. Scripts broken, extremely laggy, tp´s not working and also last night my router did sound like it´s gonna explode any minute. (Of course only when i logged on to sl, www was working fine.)

    Is that caused by what you rolled out last night? Details please

    Thank you

  41. Nik Woodget says:

    The amount of people who don’t understand that havok 4 and mono are steps to fixing problems with grid scares me. These may be new feauturesm but they can also be considered updates.

    Havok 4 updates Havok 1, brings better physics but also better stability to sims, and better performance. This brings less lag, and less sim crashes, and is a good thing.

    Mono, updates the scripting back end, this brings a faster, more stable, less CPU intensive for the sims. This also brings less lag, less sim crashes and is also a good thing.

    They are fixing the grid, bit by bit. But the technology thats running on at the moment is quite poor. Its like trying to say that your black and white tv should be fixed so it works like a HD plasma screen without changing any of the insides.

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