Havok4 Beta Preview Update (2008-02- 26)

The Beta Preview has been updated with a resolution to the “can’t land on some prim surfaces” issue that caused us to pull the last update shortly after it was deployed. Havok4 Beta Server v1.19.0.80517 includes the fixes announced in the previous blog post.

If there are no substantive issues with this version, it will be deployed to the Early Adopter regions this Thursday Feb 28, 2008.

Please note that we are getting much closer to the Havok4 simulator being merged into our release simulator, and becoming the Second Life simulator for the whole Second Life Grid. If you have not tested your products or content on the Havok4 Beta Preview, “now would be the time”. You can participate in the Havok4 Beta in two ways:

1) Become A Havok4 Early Adopter

You can become a Havok4 Early Adopter region and have your Second Life region converted to the newest Havok4-based simulator. Your region will automatically be updated with each new release as they become available.

As an Early Adopter you can test your region in normal operation to make sure that it will work with Havok4, and give us feedback so that critical issues will be resolved before all of Second Life is converted to use this new simulator.

To tell us about any issues you find, create bug reports in the public issue tracker at http://jira.secondlife.com, entered as a SVC Bug, marked Component=Physics and Affects Version=Havok4 Beta.

To join the Havok4 Early Adopter Program, submit a help ticket requesting that you region(s) be converted to Havok4. Concierge Support is handling all requests for Early Adopter region conversions, and you must be the region owner to request a Havok4 region conversion. We will not be converting mainland regions to Havok4 during the beta test process.

or 2) Test Your Region On The Beta Preview
Alternatively, a copy of your region can be placed on the Havok4 Beta Preview. The beta preview is a separate Second Life Grid that does not affect your regular inventory or region, and can only be reached using the special Beta Viewer.

This separate world can be used for testing without having any impact on your “real” Second Life region. Please note that the Beta Preview is relatively small in size compared to Second Life, so you may only be able to have your region on the Beta Preview for a short while for testing. To have your region added to the Beta Preview, IM me in-world.

The current list of regions on the Second Life Beta Preview are on the wiki here:
https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Havok4/Beta_Preview_Regions

Best regards,

Sidewinder Linden
Havok4 Program Manager

P.S. Please keep your comments on topic and related to the Havok4 Early Adopter and Beta Preview process.

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58 Responses to Havok4 Beta Preview Update (2008-02- 26)

  1. Iexo Bethune says:

    Yaaaaaaay! You fixed Hammerhead! I didn’t notice until recently, it must have been the update before this. Works as beautifully as it did before you rolled out on the Early Adopter sims. Twice as good as on Havok 1, keep up the beautifully, spectacularly, splendiferously good work on this, Lindens!

  2. Elvis Orbit says:

    Great! So far this project is coming along so well. I can’t wait to see it to the end. Been good so far on my SIM.

  3. Shirley Wrigglesworth says:

    “Thursday Feb 27, 2008” – has LL banned the leap year and instead had Tuesday and Wednesday both as 26th?

  4. Jenny Carlos says:

    Lags much more then the old.
    Physical ground vehicles suck badly and have poor friction.
    I often tp out of havok 4 sims as much as I can because of strange freezeups when I turn and odd lag that is not in the old havok system. I have a 3 thousand dollar tower with 5 meg cable connection so please dont try and blame my system :).
    Yes this is a good thing and needed to be done but there are problems that need resolved before even thinking of saying its almost ready lol. Its far from ready in my opinion.
    But keep up the work im sure in time it will only get better.
    Oh and on a good note, I noticed there was a problem with my Vista machine and my newer grafics cards that scripted rotation wasnt working on my system. Strangely something you did in the Windlight release fixed that :). Also I must say that the Windlight viewer is much nicer and smoother running on my system then the standard viewer is. I can only hope that when the windlight , mono and havok are all working together in one new client that second life will once again become what I remember it was back when I started but with tons of much nicer looking interface and grafics and feature list.
    Thanks for the good work so far.

  5. Sean Heying says:

    I look forward to seeing it rolled out. It is “chalk and cheese” better than Havok 1 is.

    Just the fact that orbit attacks will be stopped is reason enough to put up with little niggles like sliding down hills or not being able to swim.

  6. Wolfie Waves says:

    @4 Jenny

    That’s very strange as none of my friends nor myself have ever experienced the problems you describe. I wonder what could be causing it for you.

  7. Netsuko Yoshikawa says:

    Havoc4 regions are looking good so far.
    Especially the better hehavement of flexi prims and such.

    However I am experiencing strange, slow-motion like slowdons (lag?) in many of these regions, especially when walking or generally moving about.

  8. Moll Dean says:

    hi all

    I use to test and build on SANDBOY…
    Can you tell me if all LL SANDBOXES are already converted to H4?

  9. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @3 Shirley: Oops… time zone and date conversion in my head bug 😉 Fixed now. /Sidewinder

  10. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @4 Jenny: If you could send me a notecard in-world with some specifics this would be helpful. There are many other possible causes of lag, including networking issues within our data centers, dataserver work, and other such non-Havok4 related issues. If you could make some notes of dates, times and locations for a couple of days it would be useful in seeing if the issues you are experiencing are tied to these other factors.

    We have added some performance optimizations to the build that is on the Beta Preview, which has not yet been deployed to the Early Adopters on Second Life. In particular we hope that this will improve performance with many avatars on a region.

    At the same time, “strange freezeups when you turn” are not likely to be due to Havok4, which is on the server side of the system. This may point to a viewer bug. Does this happen both on the Windlight and Release viewers? Also, even if you have a newer graphics card, please check for updated graphics card drivers – often even a brand new graphics card off the shelf has an older driver CD in the box, compared to what is available on the vendor’s web site. Many viewer lag issues are caused by bugs in older graphics drivers.

    I hope this helps. /Sidewinder

  11. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @7 Netsuko: Could you drop me a notecard with specific regions and dates/times if you remember them, when these issues were happening? This could be due to the Havok4 simulator (for walking around as opposed to turning) but could also be due to other infrastructure work that has been on-going in the last week or two.

    Thanks! /Sidewinder

  12. Vittorio Beerbaum says:

    I’m glad we’re finally close to unify the grid here, so i don’t have to test everything on two sims and make adjustments 😀 …i have two question, the first is merely “personal”:

    – What you mean with much closer? May you give to me a eta (even theoric), since i’ve to plan to release some products that would stress a H1 server but works really nice on H4, i would like to know (even approx) so i can decide…

    …and the second is more generic:

    – May you be more specific when you release a new server/client with the fixes you applied? I often find new features/fix that are not mentioned at all into the release note… i don’t know if it’s done on pourpose (because they wouldn’t interests the major users…) or what? In example, a bug that i’ve reported and that has been resolved (pending to be deploied), isn’t mentioned in the release note… it is:

    http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-1542

    …why? Thanks.

  13. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @8 Moll: Not all sandboxes on Second Life have been converted to the Beta Havok4 simulator.

    In order to tell whether you are on a Release (Havok1-based) or Havok4-based simulator, open “About Second Life…” open the Help menu. If the fourth text line says “Second Life Simulator” then you are on a release (Havok1-based) simujlator. If the fourth text line begins with “Havok4 Beta Server”, then you are on a Havok4-based simulator.

    Sidewinder

  14. Sidewinder Linden says:

    Please note that this blog post announces that we have updated the Beta Preview Grid to v1.19.0.80517, not the Early Adopter regions on Second Life (not yet… soon for these).

    The Early Adopter regions on the Second Life Grid are still running the version from the last update, and have not yet been updated to this version, so that it can be tested on the Beta Preview Grid first. The Early Adopter regions on Second Life will be updated on Thursday, and that has some performance optimizations in it… If you could test on the Beta Preview it would be helpful. To get to the Beta Preview, you can download the Beta Viewer from the Test Software page here: http://secondlife.com/community/preview.php.

    The update of the Early Adopter regions on Second Life to this newest version is scheduled for Thursday.

    Sidewinder

  15. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @12 Vittorio: Please see the link to the previous blog post in the original post above for details of the issues resolved in this build.

    The issue you noted has been resolved, but was fixed just after QA testing of v1.19.0.80517. It will be included in an upcoming version that I hope we will have ready by next week.

    I cannot provide a specific ETA for the final release of Havok4 yet. If you are wondering “should I start preparing my products” – my answer would be yes. We are doing final cleanup at this point, and not doing any major fixes other than the critical ones that we know about. If some behavior in Havok4 (other than SVC-1542) is blocking operation of your products on Havok4 please let me know right away.

    Regards,

    Sidewinder

  16. kath McGill says:

    We have noticed some odd editing issues with things on havoc 4, people who have full perm with other peoples items are not able to unlink things or modify the textures,

    we also noticed that the vender boxes dont work if you sell things for 0 lindens, you have to have the physical item out for it to be sold, though, the touch for free copy does work, does that show up on the accounting records?

    Thanks,
    kath

  17. Darek Deluca says:

    “Please note that we are getting much closer to the Havok4 simulator being merged into our release simulator, and becoming the Second Life simulator for the whole Second Life Grid.”
    This is worrisome.

    With 181 unresolved issues? Many of them major or worse.

    I consider opting out of the Havok4 early adopter because i cannot do
    things I did in Havok1 and I have to constantly find a lag free Havok1
    sandbox to try and figure out if problems I am experiencing are Havok4 related.

    We are trying to help you by being in the early adopter program. Please help us by not going off half cocked.

    Indications that someone has even read the issues in the Jira would give me some assurance.

  18. Wolfie Waves says:

    There is an issue with Havok4 that has me quite worries as to weather or not it will be fixed.

    In Havok1 regions all temp-on-rez prims do not count towards a parcels prim count but on Havok4 regions they do. Because of this objects such as holo vendors won’t work as they use temp prims to show a display model of the items it is selling.

    I reported this on the JIRA as https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-1513 but it would be nice to see what Sidewinder has to say about it.

  19. Pingback: The Grid Live » Second Life News for February 27, 2008

  20. Meade Paravane says:

    I’ve heard various reports of changes to the number of prims in a link set (maybe just on vehicles?) and megaprim/HDM changes and some other things that I can’t seem to remember right now…

    Once you go from “getting much closer to..” to “we’re about to..” a blog (or, even better, a Town Hall) that summarizes what’s changed plus maybe some performance/stability stats on Havok1 vs Havok4 would be great, Sidewinder!

    Keep up the great work!!

  21. Friday Planer says:

    Curious. My hover-type vehicle (yes I know that’s not a technical description) doesn’t land correctly. When I try to land in Havok4 sims, it falls over and does other crazy stuff. It appears to happen on prim surfaces as well as directly on the ground. Is this update meant to address that?

  22. Sedary Raymaker says:

    That reminds me…I need to see if there have been any updates for my Valkyrie wings. The ones I have are far too sensitive to bumpy ground in Havok 4 sims and go airborne walking up curbs and such.

  23. les says:

    In my (vehicle-centric) opinion havok 4 has less issues then havok 1 at this point. I would be happy to see it released yesterday.

    I’ve had a sim running havok 4 for a while now and I have not been able to make it crash a single time. No crashy = good! My sim running havok 1 continues to crash 10 times a day at least from physics, as anyone who’s been to Mooz will tell you. I’ll be applying to convert that one to H4 as soon as I finish a certain race series 🙂

    Yes, vehicles have some issues. I make my living here from vehicles and deal with them daily. NO_MOTOR_UP flag doesn’t work, allowing bikes/jet skis and the like to wheelie to mars. There is a big mass bug that can make a prim gain mass to a factor of 300 or more as you cut/hollow it smaller (examples passed). I’m sure this is the cause of some vehicles behaving very odd. Prim seams on a perfectly level road/track can bring a vehicle to a bouncing stop and this is annoying to say the least.

    The thing is “back in the day” people though vehicles in SL were a waste of time until makers learned to refine and get the most out of a very poor base. I wouldn’t lament the current H1 performance of vehicles, or anything physical, because polishing a turd was what we were doing. Yes, H4 has bugs, some pretty big ones, but I think we have a much better base to learn and grow from and the team continues to sort issues.

    When I look at the H4 team I see an active, focused and responsive team moving forward in a positive way. Each step forward is followed by another step forward. I can’t say the same for the network or unbelievably dense UI team.

    I truly look forward to the future with this project. It’s been a Long Time Coming.

    /me puts Sidewinder, Andrew and team on his xmas card list.

  24. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @16 Kath: Please provide a specific, reproducible case for the behaviors that you have mentioned, as we have not seen this behavior and it has not been noted in recent builds. (If this is already a jira item please let me know which one it is.)
    Thanks /Sidewinder

  25. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @17 Darek: Yes the items in Jira are being read. The public jira list is not fully up to date in terms of closures – in other words many items in that list are duplicates of each other or internal jira’s that have been resolved and have not yet been scrubbed yet. We are working through that list to get it in sync with internal jira listings.

    Please understand that we have a few sets of goals here. First is that the Havok4-based simulator has already been shown to dramatically reduce simulator crash rates, which has secondary benefits of reducing inventory loss and making it easier to clean up from griefing attempts. Getting these benefits out to Second Life as a whole will bring relief to serious issues for many people.

    “I consider opting out of the Havok4 early adopter because i cannot do
    things I did in Havok1 and I have to constantly find a lag free Havok1
    sandbox to try and figure out if problems I am experiencing are Havok4 related.”

    This is *exactly* what is to be expected in an Early Adopter program. It IS a beta program and it is fully to be expected that at this phase there are many things that will be different. The reason for involving 500+ regions in a beta experience is to determine the list of things that vary from the original simulator, so that we can prioritize which must be resolved before integrating the Havok4-based core with the release simulator. I appreciate your efforts and all the others in helping to find these issues.

    We will continue to resolve issues as we move through the process. Integrating with release and converting Second Life to the use of the Havok4-based simulator is a milestone that brings the benefits to the rest of the community while figuring out which of the smaller issues need resolution.

    For a great sample of some of the “go for it” feedback that we have been getting from some other folks, please see 23/Les’ post.

    There will always be open issues in a system this complex. Our goal is to get the new simulator to the point where its benefits outweight its open issues, integrate it with the release simulator so that all of Second Life can get the benefits.

    We realize that there will be new findings once we integrate with release and the Havok4-based simulator becomes the Second Life simulator. We will be spending some time (likely a few weeks) to work out other critical issues that arise after this conversion. At some point after the release integration, other fixes and enhancements will move to the mainstream bug and enhancement process.

    Best regards,

    Sidewinder

  26. Harke Hartnell says:

    Great! Bring it on bitches!

    Its gonna be great to finally rely on all the sims being on havok4 and thereby more stable.

  27. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @18 Wolfie: That is a dup of https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-1166, which has been imported and is being worked on this week. /Sidewinder

  28. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @20 Meade:Agreed. There is a document describing the linkage rules changes on the project wiki. The megaprim chages have been discussed umm how many time? (just kidding…) Megaprims up to 256m on a side will not be altered. Above that they will be reduced to 256 in size. No megaprim creation tools are being added with this release.

    What did you mean by “HDR”?

    On the performance and stability stats front… performance stats is pretty hard, since we don’t have a full characterization of the system to start with. I have seen both sides.. regions with higher and lower performance, although even when stressed the Havok4 regions are often reported to “feel faster and smoother” even when the numbers say they’re overloaded.

    I am trying to get some more comprehensive stability stats together. A first very small sample analysis (around 175 regions for a few weeks, and that was back and the very start of he Early Adopter program, before we fixed some other crash bugs) showed a dramatic reduction in crash rate. I want the chance to do more analysis with a larger sample and more recent data before publishing – but the good news is that the crash rates are very noticeably better, not 5-10% ;).

    Regards,

    Sidewinder

  29. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @20 Meade… oops forgot to add. The newest build, now on the Beta Preview and to be deployed to the Early Adopters later this week, includes a performance improvement for high avatar counts that was highly effective in test scenarios, and hopefully will bear out in the wild as well. I don’t want to promise anything on that until I see it in production use though, as in particular lab performance metrics may or may not have anything to do with production experiences with real loads. /Sidewinder

  30. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @21 Hover: Could you provide the specific vehicle used and a location that it occurs. We did work on that behavior and I thought it was resolved – and seems to be for all of the test cases we tried. Thanks, /Sidewinder

  31. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @23 Les: Thanks! Have you jira’d those two issues? We know about the “bumping over region seams” issue, but I’m wondering if this is something different. In addition the NO_MOTOR_UP bug doesn’t ring a bell. Is there a jira for that one?

    Thanks, Sidewinder

  32. Titanium says:

    I’m on a MacBook Pro, and everyone else on one that I have talked to that also lives on or frequents Havoc4 sims will tell you, there is a serious issue. Serious lag, a memory leak? I’m paying an awful lot of rent/tier to not be able to use my home, and it’s breaking my heart. Sometimes I am able to walk a little or type slowly, but eventually I just freeze completely. I built a really pretty home and used to have people visit all the time, and now I can’t enjoy it at all. Is there ANY fix in the works for the MBP issue?

  33. Wolfie Waves says:

    @32 Titanium

    Havok4 has nothing to do with your client or what sort of computer you run it is. Havok4 is server side only. Any lag or memory leak problems you may be getting will be due to the fact that the mac SL client is rather poor. Why not install CrossOver and then use that to run the Windows version of the client?

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  35. Meade Paravane says:

    TY for the reply, Sidewinder!

    No sure what it stands for but some people call megaprims “HDM”. Er.. Huge Damn Mess? Hose Da (physics) Model? Happy Day MrGriefer? Dunno..

    I just said both to try and sound smaht.

  36. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @32 Titanium: The MacBook Pro issue is a viewer-side issue. The FirstLook group and Windlight team are the folks who would be best suited to answering your questions about MBP status. /Sidewinder

  37. Moll Dean says:

    * Sidewinder

    Thank you for reply about sandboxes. I do appreciated it.
    About the viewer freezing cited above, you can simulate this bug in any viewer connected with the main grid since last update.
    Open the view > Camera Control and give some Zoom-Out, then use the Camera Control to rotate to any side with some pause and there you get the issue that may be server side.
    With some luck you go out from freeze mode in less than one minute if not you must restart SL viewer.

    Oh! DAREK creations are amazing (on comment above) and he does know what he is talking about.

    HUGS ALL

  38. Sidewinder Linden says:

    #37 Moll: … and this *only* happens on H4? I think I’ve seen similar camera-induced stalls on both Havok1 and Havok4 with various viewers… /Sidewinder

  39. Moll Dean says:

    hey Sidewalk

    I really think this freeze has nothing to do with Havok4 but as it was commented here as a possible old viewer/driver issue I am showing how to reproduce this issue in any viewer including today released one.
    This is very common but somehow it get a bit worse and more frequent.
    I hope 1.19 team can find the source of this.

    thank you

  40. Moll Dean says:

    omg. sorry there
    Not Sidewalker
    I meant Sidewinder.

  41. MarkByron Falta says:

    Sidewinder, in doing the server updates, can you update the beta grid database snapshot so we can have access to our current main grid inventory? It’s been near 2 months.

  42. We are beginning to wonder about a combination of events on our sim. Is there a way to post a nebulous request/ticket that basically will say … “we don’t know enough to know for sure what we’re talking about but we’re starting to think we have a suspicion” ?

    Thanks much!

  43. Darek Deluca says:

    SideWinder;
    Thanx for the response.
    Please don’t assume that if problems are not reported that there aren’t any. You seem to be over relying on volunteer testers (those dedicated residents who take the time to
    1. Discover a problem.
    2. Veryify it.
    3. Reproduce , and test it.
    4.Report and Document it.
    without any incentive
    except to make the Second Life experience better.

    I would hope that you are doing some internal testing on the numerous developement projects and not having the same developers that fix bugs also testing them (a horrible practice in any software house), and also dedicating some developers to creating an
    automated test system so the same problems don’t keep cropping up.
    As a programmer myself I understand how complex your job is.
    But a programmer without QA is just a hacker!

    Please understand I think Second Life is an amazing piece of work and have great respect for you people who make it possible.

    This is why I take the effort to help test Havok4 and the numerous viewer updates.
    But I don’t sign on to do testing, but to create and play.
    That is your job and responsibility, your RL, my SL.

    May I suggest since you rely on so many volunteer guinea pigs to
    help you with your job, that you provide some incentive.
    Always remember, they are your customers first!

    How about a bounty on bugs? Probably cheaper than more QA people.

    Keep up the good work!

  44. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @43 Darek: As a matter of fact, we have dedicated QA resources for the Havok4 project, and continously expand our internal testing for each deploy, along with feature and bug resolution verification before we ship a release. The nature of Second Life, as a content creation platform, makes identifying all of the possible ways that our system is used, impossible with any reasonable amount of resource. If you do not want to assist with testing, no one is forcing you to. We do have many dedicated volunteer beta testers, who have consistently found use cases that we never dreamed existed in-world, and have actively assisted in order to build a better world.

    Also please realize that when I started with Linden Lab, the first thing I did was to create a behavioral profile to start to characterize the full validation surface area of the system. Is automated testing good? Absolutely. Is it useful in finding problems outside of the known universe of expected behaviors? No (and from your background I suspect you already know this ;).

    If you look at the defect and resolution stream for the Havok4 project, I suspect you will find vanishingly few regressions… What we have been doing is progressively driling into more sophisticated and in some cases bizarre behavioral patterns to either a) make them behave as Havok1 did, or b) decide that for specific cases it is better to opt for “correct behavior” and know that some things will be somewhat different.

    To cut to the chase, it sounds like you are saying that it is unreasonable to expect you to act as a professional level beta tester without pay. That may be a correct statement for you, however in my and our experience there are many people who are highly skilled at finding boundary cases and are more than happy to help in order to advance the platform. Some of them may only contribute one “find” but in each case the impact has been substantial and very helpful.

    Asking someone who reports a problem to be specific, and to help us to be able to reproduce it, is hardly an exhorbitant request in my book 😉

    For what it’s worth, the type of testing and results found from “real users who like to test things” is quite different than structured testing of an internal QA organization. Both are vital to finding the issues that need to be identified. The large scale beta test and Early Adopter Program are not a way to reduce our costs – they are strategies for catching more types of problems, faster, and before we roll the Havok4 simulator out to Second Life as a whole. I took this path because it seemed prudent and most effective way to both get to the goal as quickly as possible and to minimize disruption risks of replacing such a core element of the system.

    Thanks for your help!

    Sidewinder

  45. Darek Deluca says:

    You are probably good at your job or you would not be where you are.
    But you have alot to learn about customer service!

  46. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @Darek – please feel free to IM me in-world to talk directly… this hardly seems the forum for whatever it is you’d like to discuss… /Sidewinder

  47. Saskia McLaglen says:

    @Sidewinder

    Thank you for being so responsive to people here, a credit to you Sir ^^

    One thing I have noticed since our sandbox ‘Discordia’ entered the H4 early adopters program, is that avatars ‘slide’ down hill when stationary on a slope. I don’t know if this is on Jira, I don’t have the time to look right now, but this is easily reproduced. Every time I stand on a slope, i gradually and visibly slide down it. There is a similar issue, where when I try to land from flying on a slope (all these slopes i refer to are land) I actually fly down the slope until it is flat enough to land on. I use a ZHAO2, I dont know if that is an issue, but I can reproduce that consistantly all the time. I assume its a known issue, I just have not seen it reported..

    Anyhow, keep up the good work..I am looking forward to H4s progress 🙂

    PS – The known issues with H4 and LSL collisions and llVolumeDetect…when are they going to be resolved? They are an integral part of any resident/physics environment, and again I have seen nothing about their resolution except that they are “known issues”.

    Many thanks

    Sas

  48. Saskia McLaglen says:

    Arrgh! Sorry for posting again, there is no ‘edit comment’ feature i can see here…its not just me that experiences the sliding problem, so I don’t think its my ao..all other people experience it here…silly me 🙂

  49. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @47 Saskia: The slow slide down a slope (usually followed in a few seconds by a “step up back to where you were” is a known issue. I have heard comments on both sides of this one. Some folks seem to think this is more realistic. Others seem to think it is a problem. I’m frankly not sure where I stand on this. We have talked about it several times in team meetings, and for various reasons it is not a simple fix.

    My feeling on this is that we could release the Havok4-based simulator with this behavior, since it does not break existing in-world content, and then resolve it later on if people in general find it problematic, as opposed to holding off to research it. Does this seem like a reasonable approach?

    Regards,

    Sidewinder

    P.S. There are several aspects of volume detect, some of which have been worked on at several points throughout the project. Could you drop me a notecard with a description of the specific issue that you’re talking about, or if it’s an existing jira point me to the jira#? Thanks.

  50. Does it fix the extra lag, inworld and chat, massive tp failures and crashes that have been happening for the last 3 weeks, and peaked today, in trying to shoehorn in all these massive changes on top of the failing asset servers?

    I guess Philip’s New Year promise to focus on stability rather than shinies was just hot air again.

    Welcome to Syrupy Life.

  51. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @50 Montana: The Havok4-based simulator does reduce crash rates in a numerically obvious way. I will be publishing statistics as soon as we can run some more reports on recent data. Please do not post generalized slams on this blog post, as they are off-topic, and in the case of the Havok4 simulator project not factually correct. Does it fix everything? No. Is it a specifically stability-focused project that has already reduced crash rates for over 500 regions? Yes.

    Regards,

    Sidewinder

  52. Ryu Darragh says:

    Sidewinder, just as a (semi) related note on the “turn and freeze” problems people have been reporting, my own work with my networking tools says it’s a few outbound packets from the client updating the avatars position and a stall of up to 3 minutes before packets start to arrive inbound from the server. No way to know if this is the server or the ‘net between the server and the client. I’ve also run a 3DWinMark OpenGL test in another window while the client freezes and that isn’t interrupted at all so it’s not a rendering issue on the client. If a test switch or tools can be worked out to add to the client and/or server for really getting a handle on ‘net traffic between here and there, put me in touch with someone at LL and I’ll be your willing experimental test subject same way I did for Vivox and voice last year 🙂

  53. Ryu Darragh says:

    Oh, and yes, I have been getting this freeze on both my Hyper HP (has an nVidea 8800GTX) and my Asus G1 laptop PC for all versions of the client since 1.18 and using Optimum (before Aug 07) and Comcast as ISP since.

  54. Elvis Orbit says:

    It is disappointing and unmotivating to read the negative comments on this post as a SL user, how must the Havok 4 team feel? They have done a SUPERB job of getting this ready for the main grid as well have been very informative, helpful, and open about the process. So for them to post what they are doing to get just negative feedback every single time does not help. Yes there are problems, but there are ways to bring them up and report them without being angry and negative.
    For me being a part of the Havok 4 early adopter program has been nothing but positive. I have not come up with any main issues at my own place partly because most of the ones that would have were fixed in the beta grid testing.
    Havok 4 is a major update that will bring stability to the grid and so far it has gone well. Let’s encourage the team to keep their momentum rather than trying to stop it.

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  56. Nya says:

    We have had the fortunate chance to be a Havok4 Early Adapter Sim. There is a great upside to this, which is that all of my products by force have to be able to work on the Havok4 sim, and of course then tested on normal ones (for now!). This will be a big step-ahead then most builders have, and I think that upgrading is a -great- choice because it helps find bugs, everyone will be running on this eventually and to make it smoothe as possible we have to help then.

    I do have one question about this though which is, there is a big problem with slopes! This time it is prim, not land. My customers no longer can walk up steep slopes to use prim ladders etc, and it’s a bit of a pain to script items to move the avatar. Is this supposed to be this way? Sure it’s realistic, but avatars cant actually climb an item yet, so in the same way it’s not. (Without scripting, animation, etc and I so dont have the time for that)
    Thanks!

  57. Panya Aya says:

    excelent my swings swing and my rocking chairs is rocking correctly and I hope I dont lost any thing any more> . As I am a builder teacher most big steps for us Thank you our Linden so much Great job you di.

  58. Sascha says:

    I am very content with Havok 4 since I have it running on the sim, but in my opinion some things, f.e. unsitting kicks you up, should be really fixed before going public. I am very confident that you achieve that till then 🙂 Good work done so far.

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