The Linden Department of Public Works

We are launching a new program this month that is all about improving the experience for residents living on or visiting the Linden mainland. We’re calling it the Linden Department of Public Works (LDPW), a project within which we will organise teams of resident builders, artists and scripters to create new linden content on our behalf.

We haven’t done much content creation over the last year, which makes us sad. It takes a lot of time and resource, and has been difficult to commit to with so many other areas to work on – so by using the skills and experience in the community, we think we can make a real difference.

So how will this work in practice?Β  Well, we’re currently assembling our first team of ten resident builders. These are people that have been referred to us and (importantly) have time to commit to the project during the early stages. Later on we will look at how we can invite other builders to apply, but for now this gets us going quickly whilst we work out how best to run this.

We will provide the team with specific build projects and will oversee progress before taking ownership of the content once work is completed.

What will we work on?Β  Good question; basically, we will consider anything and everything that we feel will make the mainland more attractive, fun, engaging and interesting for new or existing residents. Initially, we’re looking at extending the city area which is very popular, so that will involve some new built up areas to the west of Barcola (joined via bridges to preserve existing water views). We’ll also be looking at new park areas, Linden folly builds, beautifying existing Linden land, better gathering places and seeding new mainland with themed builds. Some of the content may find its way into the Library in your inventories.

In addition, there will be other work ongoing as part of this program that will include repairing terrain, and yes – finally completing the missing coastline on the southern continent.

As we go forward, we will post regularly to the blog to let everyone know what is being worked on and what plans we have. We’re pretty excited about this project, it’ll be very cool to see what a difference we can make over time with help from our own community. If you have ideas about what we should consider doing, keep your eyes open for some office hour sessions soon where you’ll be able to discuss them with the LDPW directly.

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150 Responses to The Linden Department of Public Works

  1. Khamon says:

    This is quite an exciting prospect. Can’t wait to see it all.

    Will y’all be signing on public works surveyors whose only skill is the ability to delete non-linden prims from maintenance land specifically to help clear off replication attacks?

  2. Mimi says:

    Linden Roads would be cool. It would be extra cool if it would not be possible to divide land right next to it into 16m pieces, so the space won’t be malused by add farms. (which now happens with about any protected linden land)

  3. n0rm4l says:

    Awww, we wuv yu.

  4. Fianna Idora says:

    1 and 2 both have very good points! I’d like to see roads and bridges go in on the southern continent (the linden road by my house in Han Loso goes right though a lake – been waiting for a bridge to appear for eva! πŸ™‚

  5. Dreaming of lots of trees and flowers, parks and open spaces, resident sculptures and artwork, snapshot-friendly vistas…

  6. Lasher Oh says:

    Finish what’s been started – the roads please!

  7. Buckaroo Mu says:

    Road would be extra nice. For that matter, even just smoothing the terrain of protected roadways would be helpful!

  8. Gordon Wendt says:

    So are these builders/scripters/etc… be volunteers or will they be paid for their work?

  9. calliope simon says:

    Yeah, don’t fix the whole rest of second life or anything though. Thanks. And the “makes us sad” line is cutesy and trite.

  10. Sammy Thielt says:

    Putting something in place to end the blight caused by “ad farms” and the associated extortion would go a LOT farther than any 10-person team could do to make Mainland better.

    My proposal to limit maximum sale price on very small parcels to stop extortion and end blight – http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-894

    Visit, read, log in, vote, pass the word.

  11. alroger says:

    Sounds good! Every aspect of it!

  12. Destiny Niles says:

    Don’t forget the underwater sims. Mermaids are people too.

  13. lufpleh obstreperous says:

    Fixing the floors in the Hanja Welcome Area should be a nice easy quick job, we have been standing up to our ankles in concrete for way to long!!

  14. Wow, bring on the nay-sayers! (Did you expect anything different?) “No, no fix MY problem!”

    How does bringing on 10 non-LL employees stop LL from making SL better? It doesn’t. Not in the least.

    I think this is a great idea. Anything that makes the mainland more attractive as a destination is a great initiative in my book.

  15. Roads, for one, and not just in the already-built-up places on Heterocera and Sansara. You guys have deployed 3 new continents in the last year, and they need roads, bridges, rail and other amenities to make it feel more like a unified system rather than a scattering of places.

    And I will echo the sentiments about the ad farms.

  16. FD Spark says:

    That is really great that you’re doing this.
    Is there anyone regular residents can contribute like items they made for gardens, parks, roads be it textures,etc?

  17. Ann Otoole says:

    feel free to call me up into this draft.

  18. Excellent idea! Can’t wait to see the new projects. Hopefully they will include more cobblestone roads. It would also be great to see the Linden railway extended. Perhaps you could accidentally knock down some ad farms along the way? {:o)

  19. Very cool! I’d love to see the road system worked on, as well as the great wall on the Hetereocera atoll finished. If I can lend my own talents, I’d be glad to, particularly with parks and green space.

  20. Dark Starr says:

    Here here! I know many talented builders who would love to devote some time to making Second Life and mainland a nice place from ALL residents and visitors. I don’t think people are specifically targeting “fix my place first” its that is whats foremost in their minds and daily experience. I would like to suggest some builders and developers, even my own talents. I wouldn’t ask for pay to help and leave a little beauty behind me for others to enjoy. Not saying I would turn it down either. Maybe set aside an island or region for developers and give them tier free parcels. Lindens feel free to contact me I’ll offer my consulting/development services.

  21. Simondo Nebestanka says:

    Thanks, this sounds like a really great idea.

    And yes if this could please please please tie in with some method to deter ad farms, or at least prevent them from being such an enticing profit scheme.. that would contribute *enormously* to the charm of the mainland.

    Sammy Thielt’s link at #10 has some great ideas and here are some more:
    http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-4121
    http://secondthoughts.typepad.com/second_thoughts/2008/01/protests-agains.html
    http://ordinalmalaprop.com/engine/2008/01/09/griefbuild-digest-again/

    Good luck with the LDPW, really looking forward to seeing the results of this!
    Cheers

  22. Gerald Shatner says:

    What happen to the SL train that was suppose to travel the mainland?

  23. I like idea #2 but please don’t inflict it on private estates.

    On our regions we have to keep back a 16m2 plot to place a prim to put a land scanner script and security script in.

    When private estate land sales were enabled. The Lindens ignored pleas to add an email or some message to estate owners to tell them when land changed owners. These scanners are the only way of doing this now.

    What happened to your 20/20 hindsight?

    Also is this beautification of the Linden mainland regions a preparation for tier increases?

    You froze private sim grandfathered tiers till 2008. It would be unfair to raise them without raising mainland tiers.. did I guess right?

    I do hope not.. but I bet no Linden will state categorically different

  24. Aquarius Paravane says:

    Southern Continent? How about naming the rest of the continents (apart from Nautilus and Corsica).

  25. Stryker Jenkins says:

    Gosh… I would love to help build some nice stuff and some roadworks to help get people around. Also other forms of transport infrastructure’s would be nice.

    It would be nice if the mainland roads could have a good looking connections to some of the regions that do have a infrastructure of there own already.

    Tons of Idea… Can’t wait to get stuck in… πŸ˜‰

  26. Vint Faken says:

    Sounds great! I’m curious to see who is in that little building black book. Although why don’t you just go shopping in-world and on SLexchange? πŸ˜‰

  27. Jazzman Jibilla says:

    Hooray..sounds excellent LL…will you be getting rid of those nasty ad farms near any of your future builds?
    Remember much like the rl you need greenspace. Good luck with it I look forward to seeing what goes up.

  28. I think a central city would be fantastic. Make it the capitol of SL and make it interesting and engaging and easy for first time users but, since it’s a city, as you go up in buildings content and experiences can become far more advanced.

    V

  29. Milo Bellow says:

    Quote-
    “Well, we’re currently assembling our first team of ten resident builders. These are people that have been referred to us…”
    -Endquote

    How Do Resident Builders Get “referred” To Linden Labs And By Whom?

    Hmm?

  30. Damen Hax says:

    This sounds like an excellent project. My only query is why so few builders.

    An idea~
    Many content creators (including myself) own a large chunk of a sim, in my case I own a good sized piece of land on both sides of a linden road (painstakingly retrieved from AD farmers). A sim to the north of where I call home has linden roads completed. I could do it in an hour or less, it would benefit everyone in the sim, as a completed road is more sightly than a grass strip you cant do anything with.

    Perhaps looking into who owns the majority of a sim would save some time, as you wouldn’t have to send one of the ’10’ team builders, saving time on many fronts.

    This would enable the roads of sl to become one, much faster than the current method(s).

  31. Efemera Bisiani says:

    This is *such* a cool idea! I currently avoid mainland where possible, is great to know are plans to improve it!

  32. FD Spark says:

    Oops I forgot to add I would love to make unique textures for the public works if you let me.

  33. It’s great to see this happen. I have found tons of problems with the telehub, games in waterhead, and the half-missing dock in the back. Will the antiquated Linden radio be updated with fresh content as well? I’ll be happy to see progress and am eagerly looking forward to seeing new things. I am sure the noobs will be less confused as well as content will be working again.

    http://dedricmauriac.wordpress.com/2008/01/13/broken-telehub-of-memories-long-past/

  34. Desmond Shang says:

    Sounds great!

    I’m going to put in my two cents re: the railway in Heterocetera Atoll.

    Talk to Barney Boomslang. Seriously. For a running example of his multicar train you can *right now* port into Caledon Tamrannoch just before the hour, at any hour; the train will appear and you can take a 20 minute multiregional ride.

    The mainland needs this. He can rock your world, and it’s under Creative Commons licencing if I recall correctly.

    Desmond Shang
    Caledon

  35. Penny Patton says:

    At a glance, this sounds like a great idea. SL really has great visual potential. I’ve seen places in SL where if you showed someone screenshots, they probably wouldn’t realize that they were looking at SecondLife.

    To that end, I think you should be really picky about the builders you choose. At least as picky as you can afford to be. Builds like these really ought to be the cream of the crop. They should be pushing the bar up on SL builds.

  36. Alyx Sands says:

    Public works? Cool. I want more sewers and tunnels. No, really! πŸ˜‰

  37. Please IM me on the teen grid, my company can help you, and i can suggest more than a few competent people to you!

  38. how about fixing the SL BUGS 1st before trying to beautify SL more!!!!

  39. Here is an idea that might improve the experience and look of the metaverse dramatically. Give land owners 3 months to sell any parcels they may own that are under 512m and inform everyone that in 3 months parcels may no longer be divided to a size inferior to 512m.
    When the 3 months are up, set all land under 512m for sale at double the market price, and two months after that at whatever the market price is at that time. The land owner of course would receive the funds of the sale. Mainland would look much more appealing if this is done, and I believe the community would take care of the problem long before LL would have to step in. Thank you.

  40. Darren Oates says:

    Will work well if you guys add into clause 4.1 of T&Cs Add farms that are just cut as greif attacks maybe. Many will turn mainland around with roads and builds but the root problem is the multiple 16sm plots together that degrades an entire sim. Will be very intresting to see people making a diffrence on mainland plenty of people willing i bet but multiple adds need to be stopped in some way, for this idea to have a any real impact.

  41. bobbyb30 zohari says:

    The Lindens have finally realized that its residents can create things! And it only took how many years?

    So while we build for you, could you spend more time on mono and havok 4… 5 years is a lot of wasted time you know.

  42. Cocoanut Koala says:

    I would like to put in a word, as others have, for the finishing of roads wherever they can be extended.

    And as you might well imagine, I most certainly hope you WILL open up this opportunity to all who might be interested in applying, rather than sticking with your initial group.

    I hope this won’t just lose steam before you reach that stage. Which will be hopefully soon. Should people respond to this blog, for example, wanting to help, I hope you will take the time to consider them.

    I like the idea Damen Hax had, particularly, where people who own a large part of a Sim would be able to apply to fix up their own areas, and this could be expedited.

    (My area – Rosieri – doesn’t need it, roads are complete there, and it’s quite nice – but others do.)

    coco

  43. Raymond Figtree says:

    In addition to building things to improve the mainland, how about a mute feature so we can rid our view of the ad farms that have basically destroyed much of it.

  44. Raymond Figtree says:

    Jack, please make a comment on ad farms and if LL ever plans to do anything about them. The silence over this huge issue is deafening.

  45. Gamblejack says:

    LDPW is great idea.Linden Department of Public Works must fix bugs, and must create special parts of blog where users can post their problems.

  46. Wayfinder Wishbringer says:

    There’s nothing wrong with LL trying to improve the mainland, especially if volunteers do the work. Gives people something to do, recognition, the ability to contribute to the general good.

    However, I do agree with those who pointed out that it will do little good to “pave roads” when LL still refuses to moderate the eyesore builds. Huge, spinning advertising signs, spammers and useless “security blocks” cover the mainland like a garbage site. I never even visit mainland for those reasons. Can’t fly across a sim without running into someone’s vanity barrier.

    So while there’s nothing wrong with this project, and it even sounds kinda nice, it will of course not be much of an improvement. If LL wants to improve the mainland… put some “general building rules” into force… and then enforce them. Of course that’s not going to happen. Which in reality makes this whole concept somewhat of an exercise in futility.

  47. brinda allen says:

    Wow! Well I just couldnt wait any longer. I really hope it goes well. I did try….put in a 13000 plus meter wooded park in lythria. But I finally gave in to the mean spirited ppl that came about once a week with obscene particle spamm. The thing is that there seems to be no way to stop this. I did prove (at least to myself and some friends) that it is possible to have beautiful places on the mainland. Curious? IM me and I’ll send you a photo. Never stop trying Lindens…It may change for me someday..but for now I still log on with a lot of the wide eyed zeal I first came with.

  48. Carl Metropolitan says:

    I am worried that completing and extending the system of Linden roads is not listed as part of this effort. That really needs to be done.

    How does one sign up to be on the team of resident builders?

  49. *joins call for finished linden roads* *begs*

  50. Jack Linden says:

    Just to answer a few of the posts..

    Yes, we are actively discussing ad farms at the moment, we’re very aware of the impact they have but we don’t have anything concrete to share as yet. Keep reading the blog.

    @Khamon: We do plan to begin an audit of the Linden land to make sure the land settings aren’t allowing litter etc, so maybe not surveyors as such but we hope to improve things there.

    @Garth: We wouldn’t implement anything re. ad farms on islands, that isn’t our place – estate owners can already choose what they allow on their land. And no, there is nothing behind this initiative other than our desire to improve the mainland experience.

    Also, a few of you have mentioned roads. We certainly have the option in LDPW of tackling roads though initially we’ll hold off on that for several reasons. Firstly, we’re looking at what other options there are instead of prim roads, and secondly, prim roads can be difficult to place so long after the land either side has been bought. Not all residents will want a new highway beside them even if there is a Linden land gap present for it to sit on. So we’ll see how it goes re. road building.

  51. Carl Metropolitan says:

    A note to ThaBiGGDoGG Richez: The Lindens involved in community stuff are not the same Lindens that fix bugs. The LDPW won’t make bug fixes go any faster or slower.

  52. Wayfinder Wishbringer says:

    Excuse the double post. But I think it’s high time someone stood up and said, “Hey, did anyone really think this through?”

    Regarding aforementioned security barriers, which extend to (150m?) in the sky and block people from being able to fly at comfortable levels across the sim…

    There is a much more effective and less-offensive concept that could have been used, one that LL was told about a LONG time ago and of course, promptly ignored.

    Instead of security barriers, allow a land owner to “block” his plot from outside perception. If you’re on the visitor’s list, you’ll see everything there as it truly is. If you’re not, or if you’re banned, all you will see is a blank plot of land with some grass and trees… and no one on the plot will be able to see, hear or interact with you. You won’t be able to build there, rez anything there, move anything into that plot. Anything pertaining to your avatar or your personal inventory simply will not work. For all intents and purposes, if you’re not on the guest list, that plot is totally empty.

    This is a FAR more effective security measure than setting up ludicrous chunks of “security tape” for people to slam in to. That doesn’t stop Peeping Toms, cameras, snapshots being taken, or shouting abusively into the “secured” land.

    So why did Linden Lab pick such an ineffective “security” system for private land instead of a much more effective and less obtrusive method?

    You tell me. Why does LL do anything?

  53. Carl Metropolitan says:

    Jack Linden: If they did not want a Linden road adjacent to their property, they would not have bought next to a Linden road right-of-way. I think that you will find the number of residents who do not want roads are an extremely small minority.

    Build the roads! Come everyone say it with me! BUILD THE ROADS!

  54. Twoony Loon says:

    Too manny roads already exist more parks would be wellcome site keep it green every parcell that i owned has been turned into green space and visitors have had lot of coments

  55. David Cartier says:

    This exciting and welcome news will surely bring a lot of the old excitement back to SL.

  56. Someone says:

    Oh genius idea, “Hi, we’re LL, we can’t fix issues with logins and logouts or server crashes, and every patch we send out breaks something new, but while we’re at it, we’ll develop something that we’ll take credit for but make you build and not pay you for it!

  57. malificobade says:

    Could we possibly be seeing some wonderful addons to the TG :)?
    Like maybe a new sim or something ;D

    (Considering land sales in TG have plummeted, only about 15 reasonably [as in not 15.0+] sales total)
    πŸ˜€

  58. Mikelo Serevi says:

    Are these people going to be hired as paid help or will they be ‘crowd-sourced’ i.e. volunteer? This was asked earlier, but I didn’t see an answer.

    Mikelo

  59. Masuyo Aabye says:

    i think it is very funny how people are still Ditching at linden labs when they’ve asked for volunteers to help improve the mainland. what would you rather have? lindens focusing on bug fixing or working on the mainland?
    atleast this way we RESIDENTS get a say in what WE want to have on the mainland.
    seriuosly Lindns just ignore the negative stuff on here, this is a huge step in the right direction.

  60. Cat Gisel says:

    Wayfinder Wishbringer Says:

    “Excuse the double post. But I think it’s high time someone stood up and said, β€œHey, did anyone really think this through?”

    [deleting extranous comments]

    You tell me. Why does LL do anything?”

    I guess I have a problem I don’t complain enough, and I want to stay. I see people complain, but they still stay. Others complain and leave. Some don’t do much at all. it’s a free place, no doors making us stay, or am I missing something.

    On behalf of the rest of us, Wayfinder…I respectfully submit…

    You are excused. Really, you can go any time you like πŸ™‚

  61. Anna Gulaev says:

    “we’re currently assembling our first team of ten resident builders. These are people that have been referred to us”

    Referred by whom?

    I’m going to wait and see how well connected one had to be to be “referred” before I get excited about this.

  62. Chaos Mohr says:

    Great news hearing about some coming mainland improvements – however I agree with many of the sentiments here, improvements to mainland are a waste of time if they will just end up surrounded by ad cuts as so much of the nice land on the mainland is already. These ad cutters have already destroyed the majority of new sims auctioned this past week – kind of pointless to invest in making things prettier when ugliness like that is allowed, even though the large majority seems to be against it, it continues unchecked 😦

    Seeing some more roads, bridges, and especially hopefully some Linden forest and park areas would be fantastic though – just keep them protected!

  63. Mills Gazov says:

    Getting rid of the 16SQM ad plots will do a lot to improve the mainland experience and it should improve the value of mainland plots due to the unslightly blight being gorne.

  64. Greta Umarov says:

    Please please PLEASE will you create a way to TURN OFF group ims if you don’t want to listen to them? I’m so tired of idle chatter on all the groups that I”m actually considering quitting all but the ones I absolutely have to have (like my home sim’s group)

    When I’m building, or carrying on a conversation with people right in front of me, to have to deal with a flood of text from other groups announcements (some are WAY too frequent and non-essential) while trying to carry on a conversation, is sometimes an excercise in patience and determination. Can’t we just SHUT OFF groups if we don’t want to hear them?

    Thank you

  65. Jopsy Pendragon says:

    Jack- Very exciting project!

    Is there anyone in specific we should contact if we have content we would like to submit for review to the general Library? =)

    Thank you for all your hard work and dedication to the mainland!

  66. JR Unknown says:

    The mainland is in major need of a facelift and this sounds like like a terrific first step. Jack, your post actually mentioning “ad farms” and that they are being “activily discussed” is the most positive subject in this whole post. If you figure away to get a handle on ad farms you will in my opinion be fixing the ugliest parts of SL’s mainland with one action. The rest of these new planned improvements will just be the “icing on the cake”. PLEASE Jack, help rid SL of ad farms so the beauty of the mainland can return!! Thanks again for actually mentioning it like it’s an important topic to LL. I can now stop beating my head against the wall because I thought nobody was listening to us. See CP, I told you he cared πŸ™‚

  67. Zack84 Burton says:

    I’ll just add that completing the roads would be nice. Don’t forget the snowy regions. There are cleared lands for hundreds of meters throughout the North-Central and South-Central continents that could use the asphalt. Also the rail system that stretches for several sims on the northern continent.. A train on those tracks would be nice..

    I think public works is really going to spruce up the older areas..

    Great work LL!

  68. toric says:

    I would so love to see some of the existing Linden builds revisted and some of the simple bit rot cleaned up, especially things the public will tend to see like roads and infohubs. Random prims have disappeared here and there, most of which could be replaced by adjacent matching parts so there wouldn’t be a mad dash to locate someone’s old inventory. Vehicle remnants that got stuck along sim crossings on Linden land despite permissions that should prevent that could be returned. Infohubs are handing out notecards with wildly outdated information about things like stipends, some noob-facing kiosks stopped working ages ago, there are signs and kiosks up for SL offers and events that expired over a year ago, “real” orientation islands have scripted tests that don’t work and frustrate new arrivals.

    None of these will be exciting projects, but these smaller issues really make SL look like it’s been abandoned by its creators.

  69. Casper Whitfield says:

    This is very cool to hear, it will be nice to see more landscaping and Buildings. And I agree…the roads do need to be finished. While I love seeing resident created areas, the public works project sounds like just what the mainland needed!

    Awesome project!

  70. just me says:

    so in short, you want the residents to do your work
    very clever indeed

  71. William says:

    LoL, almost forgot it was an election year..
    Oh wait, Lindens arn`t voted in, hmmm,
    Wonder what the REAL angle is…NO I`m not a naysayer,either
    The higher-ups in Linden Labs have NEVER shown any real concern for the residen`ts (customers if you prefer)or even the noobie`s experience here. Then ALL OF a SUDDEN, LET`S BEAUTIFY THIS PLACE, I`LL FIX THE ROADS THE SEWERS , THE CROOKED POLITITIONS, OR WHATEVER.

    Again, the HIGHER–UP LINDENS, not the hard workin, late-night ass-bustin, keepin the people informed Linden`s.

    Call me nay`sayer, Linden hater, whatever you want to. I`m just bein a realist, the blue collar crew, makin the suits look bad lately
    Or maybe it`s election year fever on their part.

    Don`t get me wrong, though many will either way, I think this is a WONDERFUL endeavor, I just hope , the suits LEARN from it, LEARN WHAT A COMMUNITY CAN DO TOGETHER, when those in power listen to, respect, and just plain work with, those they have the power over

  72. Ric Mollor says:

    Is there any plan to make the roads actually *usable*? I’ve spent quite a bit of time exploring them and have never seen a vehicle of any sort being driven. Every vehicle I have tried suffered from severe control problems and crossing from sim to sim results in frequent disconnections from Second Life. Slowing down to a walking pace will allow a bit more time before problems occur but if one wanted to go at a walking speed they would be on foot to start with.

    It shouldn’t be impossible to have working vehicles. In the world ‘There.com’ it’s possible to drive for hours without a hint of a problem. Why can’t Linden Labs produce the same quality?

  73. Brodie Rothschild says:

    This is a Great idea. I recognize your efforrts.

    THE MAINLAND Residences DO NOT WANT AD LOTS!!!! Sorry for the caps but this is the #1 mainland problem right now in terms of visual and scenery.

    I have the answer. Make all lots under 512m not longer have prim values but if combined with another lot to make at least a 512m lot, they still add in prim value. Any new sims that go online do not allow lots less than 512m.

    UMNIK IS RUINING the Mainland!!!!!!!!!!

    Thank you

  74. Nice idea. I’m looking forward to seeing the results. How about posting a list of completed projects so we can see them? Finishing the roads in the existing rights-of-way would be great!

  75. Mowgli Soy says:

    A brilliant idea.. I think it will bring new blood into the artistic life of SL. While many gifted builders have wonderfully offered their builds for free and as gifts, finding exemplary items in a new resident’s inventory is part of the fun. Maybe LL can offer a quarterly competition open to all for specific items needed or wanted.. the finalists can be displayed and allowed to be voted on by the population.

    I must contribute my 2 cents to the ad farm issue:

    While I agree wholeheartedly with the blight ad farms have become on the SL landcape, we also forget there are some who use the small and inexpensive plots as storage facilities and vendor spots. May I offer a page from Rl government and suggest creating a zoning area.. ie storage or retail sims only..where the land is allowed to be cut up into the smaller segments, accesible by linden streets.

    While this will probably not discourage die hard advertisers from expanding their ad space from 16m2 to 512m2 ad farms, I hope he price entailed would encourage the owner to use the land in a more profitable and useful manner.

  76. U M says:

    I love this idea, ok then start cleaning of plots of land that are being littered with land owerns alts objetcs to force surrounding owners to sellout. Then I say this is winning idea. Otherwise its a waste of human resources.

  77. Grey Kurka says:

    You should consider a call for proposals for public work structures(parks, civic centers, etc… Much like your RR stations (and rl).

  78. It’s a great idea! Will these builders be offered some benefits in sl that would encourage them to help out. Maybe no cost to accounts or something like that. Free upload privies or something. It’s a thought. I’m not a builder but if I were them I’d want a little something for my time.

  79. glow Raymaker says:

    Well it looks great. But when will IM load the contacts list? And it feels jsut as unstable when i drop out the floor of a skybox, or end up wandering off in to teh ground!

  80. glow Raymaker says:

    Oh and can some1 tell me why if region loggouts are there to get rid of camper bots do they seem to target me only when i TP to a new region? Have camper bots got so smart that they read im and follow lucky chairs now!

  81. Wyald Woolley says:

    Maybe new roads and bridges are coming to give many of us something that we never experienced before.

    Old timers have told me of the olden days in SL where they would drive all around the mainland roads in their vehicles having a great time.

    With Havok4 and momo coming on line soon, it may once again be possible to enjoy life in SL like it once was! Think of the possibilities…crossing sim boundaries with our hair and shoes where they belong…zipping down the road without submarining under the ground…enjoying the roar of a 442 engine without it going silent for long stretches…oh, wait, what am I thinking?

  82. Monkey says:

    FINISH THE GREAT WALL

  83. Max Kleiber says:

    No more stuff in the library, please.

  84. richard says:

    second life is not working

  85. Misterbear Fapp says:

    Roads, yeah I can see that. How about putting in a train rather than roads. People could ride it and do the big tour. Of course that would have to be after the promised fixes of Havok 4.

  86. Dex Trenchcoat says:

    Bravo Lindens!!

    Almost as soon as I got off Help Island I formed a Driving Club, with the idea that we go on road trips around all the Mainlands. when I first formed the group I thought we were alone in the idea of actually using the roads.

    Slowly, over time, I am meeting more and more people who actively use the roads whenever possible. There are many groups who would love to see this project completed.

    I also love the idea of expanding Nova Albion!

    My one dream request would be… Can we have a road that connects the City of Nova Albion to the rest of Sansara? right now Nova Albion has its own roads, but no way to drive *to* the city…

    Again Bravo Lindens.

  87. Jayme Llewellyn says:

    Again … this is typical of Linden Labs not looking at the main issues that have plagued this game for what seems like ages. Great, go ahead, add more fluff to the mainland. I wonder how severe the crash regularity will be in the rest of secondlife once you’ve finished your public works, Linden labs? Every five minutes? Wait … we’ve got that now. every 3 minutes? 2 minutes? What is the sense of adding more “fluff” when the main grid and central gaming/drive engine cannot even cope with what you currently have? Tell me, what is the sense? Wake up to yourselves, Linden Labs. Fix the central issues first. I’ve just outlined them. I’ve outlined them in every blog about a new upgrade for the last month. Will you not listen to the public? Not have I listed the problems, others have also listed the problems. Will you not listen to the public?

  88. TaraLi Jie says:

    1) Can we nominate artists/builds who could be asked for permission to have their builds preserved on some of these lands? Light Waves has some incredible stuff at Black Swan, and I’ve seen some other amazing places – the Crooked House, etc…

    2) If not all of the prims are going to be used – can I offer MISC-899 for some thought?

  89. Ina Centaur says:

    Might this be Veronica’s dream of the arts mainland?

  90. Tegg B says:

    More parks and roads is great, if it is obviously meant as a road make it a road not a park, seperate blocks can be brought to make parks easily, but resuming land to make roads is a nightmare.

  91. Arachna Deerhunter says:

    I tremble, with anticipation!

    Is there going to be a public transportation system, that can easily be relied on?

  92. Aaron Edelweiss says:

    You know, every time a “we invite the residents” idea comes up, the only thing that run’s through my head is, “yippy, they’ll _let_ us do their work for them, and we get peanuts!!! mmm peanuts”, or some inner monolog to that effect. I realize being a Linden leaves very little free time for actually using SL, but common guys, at least work up a program where people can profit from their work. Let them retain ownership as long as the place is successful for crying out loud, none of this “and once you’ve built it, we’ll take it off your hands for you.” crap. Not only would it result in better work, it would promote continued investment.

  93. ColeMarie says:

    OMG YAY
    FInally
    SOMETHINGS GOING ON wooo
    ok bye

  94. ColeMarie says:

    oh and um…
    I don’t think light waves has them time XD

  95. Jannae Karas says:

    Great idea.. I fluffed up my property recently, prior to putting it on the market also. I think it made a big difference in the price I was able to secure. : )

  96. Yellow13 Slade says:

    Does this mean there will be more building zone sandboxes? We need more sandboxes…

  97. Argent Stonecutter says:

    How about providing places for people to donate some of the great builds out there that would otherwise have to be packed up and sold off because of the cost of keeping a sim up? Maybe have some kind of way for people to nominate a great build for preservation in a kind of SL National Park?

  98. Jaca C says:

    Great ideas but I also have comments / questions:

    Comment
    To make the land look better how about clearing out the sky. People buy land and don’t use it – they use the air, put up ban lines and hurt all around them ’cause can they not fly in, or vistors fly in, but it is almost impossible to build. Skyboxes hurt everyone – in MHO

    Question
    This may be a tad off topic but in the process of making the land better how about making the services better (i.e. I am sure I am not the only one who offered to help newbies and I have never been contacted).

    Jaca

  99. What about the roads?

  100. HD1080i says:

    Al good, thanks
    Roads sooner or later would be great,
    and perhaps consider a preservation / historical thing as suggested earlier.
    It was visiting some of these stunning builds in High def and windlight viewer that inspired me to believe that amazing things were possible, but i had to hunt them down or be shown by kind-to-newb SL inahbitants.

  101. U M says:

    As I recall about 1 year + ago they talked about this but they changed their monds. Now they bring it up again. Wonder if they do it this time. I love to see better roads, etc without the junk of ads and litter around.

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  103. Doc Nolan says:

    What about PARKS, i.e. large areas of wooded or landscaped areas where folks could simply gather to chat in a relatively unspoiled and uncluttered environment. In a park no one could build, but the Lindens would provide ponds, lampposts, benches, tables, chairs, coffee bars, etc, and folks who don’t want to ‘club’ could simply meet friends there! Some soft music (New Age and Classical) could be streamed to make each park appeal to a different crowd. And the vegetation could be adjusted to theme…. for example, Japanese Buddhist chant in a bamboo and taikobashi decorated Japanese garden park…. Yeah, it would mean some square meters of server space not generating immediate revenues to LL — but if more and more folks gather, and fewer and fewer folks abandon 2L because of the congestion, mightn’t they be enough to balance the immediate loss? Also, having ‘high end’ entertainment might attract and keep paying customers as opposed to the ‘no credit card on file’ folks who come and go constantly…..

  104. Kyder Ling says:

    Man! This sounds soo fricking cool, and I would love to help, but are there any plans or words for those of us who aren’t the most talented? I have dabbed in Modelling and animating, but nothing fantastic in either, and yet I do have time on my hands and oodles of ideas!

  105. Lias Leandros says:

    If your going to create more unsupervised greifer and loitering areas on the mainland – then please do not bother. We mainland land owners were asked to buy into this dream in 2006. These places were built and then abandoned to the mobs of SL.

    The Lindens Define InfoHubs in the Official Blog as:
    “These spaces, called Infohubs in Second Life, are distributed throughout the mainland grid. Because these spaces vary in size from very small plots of land to larger ones, we are considering two types of builds. The smaller of these would function as an information center for centralized distribution of Linden Lab news and announcements as well as resident content. The larger type of space would be used as a public gathering space for meetings, events, or general socializing.”

    Waiting for hours to enter the sim you pay Linden Lab tier for because of a Linden owned unsupervised parcel is outrageous and not what was agreed to. Adding more of these structures in mainland sims that can only accommodate 40 avatars at one time completely disregards the people that own parcels in the sim.

  106. Mare Novi says:

    One comment about the roads: currently the ones I’ve been on are no-build, which means that you can’t rez a vehicle (unless it’s an attachment). How about changing the perms to build, but with something like a 5-minute object return time? AFAIK, once you are sitting on the vehicle or other object, it isn’t autoreturned.

  107. uh-oh says:

    wow this is wonderful news. I like the idea of more roads and bridges. I love it. More parks and public places with themes. Wow. Nice to see new things. Yes I agree. Something needs to be done about the ad farms. I use trees etc to block them if they border my land so I as well as others do not have to see them. Does anyone really pay any attention to what they are selling? other than the fact they are nothing but blight ruining the landscape.
    Keep up the good work. : )

  108. Bradley Bracken says:

    Great to hear some action is being taken but it makes absolutely no sense to not work on the roads. And considering other options for them? That’s just a cop out for let’s take the easy route and make them parks. The people who bought the land near those strips knew they were buying roads, let them have roads. If there are those that don’t want roads, well again, they knew what they were getting into. Or at least should have.

  109. Christine Fearne says:

    Cool. Maybe it will raise the property value πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚

  110. Phillip Gregory says:

    Hear! Hear! and Huzah! ‘Bout time someone started to do something about organizing this place. Please follow up with information about joining LDPW. I’d love the chance to volunteer. One problem as I see it though. Has the lag while crossing sim borders been adressed? I’ve actually built a rather large (and in my opinion) rather attractive bridge spanning space from my land to a neighbors’ in a bordering sim. Try as we might, we can’t factor out the lag. Walk from one sim to another, and you wind up falling through the deck. This could cause (and has caused) considerable frustration. Same goes for the roads. I’ve driven a vehicle onto the Linden roadways and been tossed from the vehicle as the sims are crossed. Fix this and it should be a great program.

  111. Lorelei Mission says:

    I know you said you’re setting aside the road thing for the moment, but look at these responses. Please, more roads, in more styles!

  112. Wayfinder Wishbringer says:

    @60 Cat.

    Ah Cat, the old tired “If you don’t like it, leave” cornball response. Is that your solution to life? If something isn’t working, if you don’t like it… just leave? You get tired of your wife, get a divorce? Your job causes you problems, ignore responsibilties and finances and quit.

    Is that how you deal with life’s difficulties?

    People who dislike the way LL conducts “Our World” have every right to complain about it. I have a group of almost 1,000 members. For the record, we DID leave at one time, but the members were so agrieved by our doing so that we decided to come back.

    If you have difficulty with people calling Linden Lab to task, maybe the solution is for YOU to leave. πŸ˜‰

  113. Wayfinder Wishbringer says:

    @ Jack Linden. Regarding the statement about roads.

    No one is suggesting that Linden Lab put roads on every sim on the mainland. Perhaps a thoughtful solution would be to choose a couple dozen sims and interconnect them with a working roadway, for those who enjoy their cars. That’s not asking a lot of LL, is it?

    But I do have to agree with the sentiments above, that while beautifying part of SL is a nice idea, and having volunteers do it is a great idea… there are far more pressing and necessary issues involved in how SL is operated.

    I do appreciate you responding to the points made about advertising farms… those ridiculous pieces of trash that EVERYONE hates (tell me, when was the last time you heard anyone say, “Ooooh! Let’s go spend a coupla hours looking through the advertising farms!”. And agreed, that’s a touchy situation, because where do you draw the line and how do you judge what is proper and improper?

    Most likely an aesthetics call. Which frankly, SL could use. I remember one instance when hundreds of people complained and even got up a petition against one single user who bought 16m plots of land and set up rotating anti-Bush signs, then tried to charge ungodly rates for the land to force the neighbors to buy it so he could make a killing and continue on with the harassment.

    I would think that would be a sure call for LL to simply say, “This is not going to be allowed.” Harassment of other users is against TOS, and those advertising farms are pretty much just that– harassment of their neighbors in order to try and get them to buy outrageously priced land.

    One wonders if that might be stopped in its tracks by putting a cap on all SL land sales. “If you want to sell land, you may not sell it for more than X amount of L$”. That would likely put an end to ad farming overnight.

    Ad farming. Camping. Other trash activities. When is LL going to step in and beautify SL in a way that COUNTS? You have the TOS. My suggestion is to start enforcing it. Harassment of other users is a wide and open field, much akin to the RL “tresspassing” laws. Might be time to assign a task force to beautify SL by enforcing TOS concepts and cracking down on neighbor harassment.

    Just a few thoughts for food. I’m not saying I have all the answers. But I think a lot of users out here have a lot of answers that LL would do well to consider.

  114. Istephanija Munro says:

    Lovely Idea, i was hoping for that to happen for a while, glad you are doing it. I totally support that if you need my help πŸ™‚

  115. Please consider having a mix of office hours for this – we don’t all live in Cali! πŸ˜‰

  116. This is what I have been looking for. Let us rebuild some of the public lands with better designs. SL needs designers, not cad operators.

  117. SL Playerβ„’ says:

    If their anything like the team that is hard at work restoring the Governor’s Mansion then good luck! Still looks like a one month old newbie build even with the “top” chosen residents assigned to it.
    zzzzzzzzz snore zzzzzz snore

    No matter what is done the owners of the ad parcels will do things to counter act it. I can see it now “beautiful 512s next to park $95,000!!” yet 3 parcels over are 5 FOR SALE 16s

  118. Gospatrick Oxbar says:

    I have seen quite a few people asking for roads on the linden roadways, and yes, I agree totally, but can I also make a request for a few canals, complete with towpaths? They would make an interesting alternative to roads.

  119. Rene Erlanger says:

    At last some good positive Second Life news!!! πŸ™‚

    While you’re giving poor old Mainland a facelift, you might have a re-think regarding SL’s biggest eye sore……those 16sq/m Ad farms!!

  120. Kyder Ling says:

    As for roads, sweet, what a great way to bust out my go-cart! ^^

    I think SL just needs more themed and actually structured parts to feature and hold as trophies. I mean, it is kind of hard when people just build whatever the hell they want and well, things end up looking like a hodge podge of just random stuff instead of a suburb or a neat urban city. I’d love to see areas like that, just because the order there just helps so much with organization and order.

  121. I wonder if it is possible to do the roads as simple textures instead of actual “prim-roads”… come on. You guys are smart aren’t you?

  122. Bradley Bracken says:

    Based on the responses it seems obvious that people want roads. It will be interesting to see if Linden Lab will finally change its course and respond to its customers. It would be nice.

    As for Ad Farmers, it shouldn’t be all that difficult. In the US many stores have signs which state “We have the right to refuse service for any reason”, including in California. You know what an ad farm looks like. Just take action.

  123. Kristopher Handrick says:

    Like its been said… GET RID OF THE AD FARMS!

  124. Deira Llanfair says:

    Nice one Jack! – and good luck πŸ™‚

  125. Masuyo Aabye says:

    after all the people complaing at LL of not allowing residents to shape SL and then they go and say that they want the resident to help make it better.

    the heck?

    just log off, just fscking log off.

  126. Wilma Philbin says:

    Sure we have to keep complaining about what doesn’t work in SL til it’s perfect, but not every time there’s an initiative to make it a better place.

    This is our world, we make it. It’s one of us who sold the 16 sqm parcel to the adfarm. Many of us owns mainland, we could get together to help build a functioning roadsystem trough our own land. Lets be a little happy that LL wants to pitch in here.

    Anyway I hope this is just the beginning of a project that will become an institution where LL helps us take part in making our very own virtual little world a better place to live.

  127. Xia Nishi says:

    I’d like to add my voice to the comments already posted.

    YES to roads!

    NO to parcels that are less than 512m!

  128. Cherry Czervik says:

    It does all sound great, looking forward to seeing it. Urge everyone to visit the Jira link @10 to vote for capped prices for small plots. I am not paying someone $90 US just to blot out a highly placed ad for escorts. Adfarming and their greedy perpetrators blight SL, please address that or give us the option not to render objects by choice please.

  129. Ciaran Laval says:

    This is great news Jack and it’s nice to see you taking volunteers up on their offers to help.

  130. astin miles says:

    Hey this sounds gr8! this is what SL is all about a player made world! GOOD JOB =)

  131. PURPLE Cyclone says:

    I enjoy LL proposes more issues to help. This way could make Lindens’job easier and increase the resident’s enjoyable.
    Good work !

  132. Tehya Oh says:

    Well that Really Sounds like A good idea ,, maight I Siggest that you make like a zone ,that people Can Get A Glimps of all the Differant Asspects of SL , like Role playing Areas, building Areas, teen ,grid, so on and so forth ,I would Be Glad to help in any Way I Can

  133. Kelly Boyington says:

    HUMM NO COMMENT THE SIMS CRASHES OR LAGS AND ERORRS ALL OVER THE BOARD BUT HEY LETS ADD ON MORE THINGS WE CANT FIX HOW SAD.
    NOTHING EVER CHANGES LETS ADD STUFF WE CANT FIX YET THERE ARE ISSUES THAT ARE NOT STILL RESLOVED AND YET YOU WANT US TO KEEP INVESTING IN SL LOL.

    HAVE SOME BALLS AND DO FIX WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE BEFORE ADDING MORE THIINGS YOU CANT FIX AS IT IS.

  134. Anderson Philbin says:

    I’d to see the road built on the Linden land on Minarlo Vite, and the sims North and South. It’s annoying not knowing whether LL will build a road, leave it empty or sell it. And yes, give me build rights and I’ll build it.

  135. mykyl nordwind says:

    /me casts her vote for roads too!

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  139. Sling Trebuchet says:

    Ad farms:
    Until I came to Jack’s comment, I was going to suggest that nobody cooperate with doing a Linden build unless the land is right beside an ad farm.

    It’s cheering the Jack can actually mention ad farms as an issue.
    It’s a shade worrying that LL still don’t appear to have formulated a solution.
    LL can interpret ‘griefing’ in any way they wish.
    We have to assume that any rational IDV implementation will involve code for the client to visually mute the content and avatars in a parcel. Extend that so users and landowners can mute nearby parcels on their own criteria.

    Roads:
    It’s worrying to see Jack down-playing the road situation. More worrying is that the downplay goes as far as to be slightly “against” roads. “Not all residents will want a new highway beside them even if there is a Linden land gap present for it to sit on.”
    I agree that there could be issues adding some types of road after people have built and terraformed on the edges.
    Some of the cobblestone roads have worked quite well in places where the sim has a rural feel. There is no reason other than lack of imagination in our world for roads to be blacktopped sidewalked monsters.

    At the very least, the land should be smoothed. I’m sure that part of the reason for losing attachments at sim crossings is that the bits get rattled loose as we head for the boundary over rough land. πŸ™‚

    Underwater builds:
    A few biggies under Linden oceans would be wonderful. One of the great things about SL is the ability to build and do things that would be impossible in RL.

    Hey! Even a few plants on the sea bottoms would be good.
    Throw down a few ruins.
    Scatter stuff around down there. Let people stumble across them.
    Have at least a few “things” in every water sim.
    Sunken ships.
    Follies with seating where people can hang out.

  140. zilvara short says:

    Hello is going to try and speak on this topic as I have read so far some interesting posts and thinks this a great idea.

    let see first off I see the lindens are doing this as a means to let them try and focus on bugs and so for , and using people who are non lindens and willing to offered there services as a means of getting help to reenergize the look and feel of areas thru people they have gotten to help out.

    In the real world example and will use this as best I can to see how this will work in areas
    – We have the public works cleaning parks and down town
    – planting trees and flowers in the down town and surrounding park lands
    -they also help in the outskirts of towns in finding suitable parks as towns developed and in building these
    – Another is bike ways and walk ways thru towns maintaining them and designing them

    Another aspect I know of parks and other reactions are usually put up first with gravel roads to them not because roads are not important it usually that you need a place for them to go to

    These are some of the examples I know of real world examples

    Now why I mentioned them

    In SL a team like this I can see working on beautifying areas of land and clearing up locations as they go they would also be able to Spot trouble locations and mention if needed to the lindens this here frees up a LARGE time slot for the lindens and lets them focus more on there bugs and other improvements to SL that we the townsfolk / players/ customers want, what ever aspect we come from in this.

    Road I can see being a later project in the list of items these people will be working on not cause there unimportant but cause of an earlier statement of you need something for them to go to. So locations should I think be a priority over main focus of roads, now I do agree eventually they will need to deal with this issue. But also as they progress with the exploration of what is needed they will location what will be needed more to focus on.

    Think of it this way a building team is being made and put in to a town where it never had a team of this nature to focus solely, there going to compile a list of needed fixes and issues that is OUT SIDE of the lindens list of concepts and fixes needed.

    So you will have them seeing idea and fixes that might help to improve area and that in new ways.

    This is I think the lindens hope, as this I do believe is an experiment with to see if it will work.

    If so I can see them expanding the teams of people to make up other area teams.

    I hope I have not bored you all with my little thought on this but maybe helped see what I hope is the reasoning behind areas in this.

    Please continue with ideas and suggestions as they can only help the community.

    Signed

    Zilvara Short

  141. Klaatu Congrejo says:

    Land-cutters, as well as ad-farmers, are a real problem in SL. Those uncaring opportunists who buy small plots of 512m or less then cut them up to 16m blocks and sell them off to ad-farmers should also be brought to task. My solution? A ‘development application’ notice should be sent to all other residents in the region explaining why such small blocks are being sold off, and a 28-day period to allow objections from the local residents. Sensible objections would disallow the sale. After all, its the residents left behind who have to live with ad-farm eyesores!
    And I LOVE the idea put forward by Gospatrick @118. I’m planning a canal linking lands I own in 3 adjoining regions and would love to be able to link them up with other regions who want to join me!

  142. zilvara short says:

    ooops found a error that should of been “in other parks and attractions ” not reactions
    sorry

  143. astarte artaud says:

    Yea. If it is the final completion of the road network, so we don’t get all these sudden dead ends or mud tracks, then count me in πŸ™‚

    Most of the land does not belong in the middle ages of cart tracks (although some areas would benefit from just that).

  144. Klaatu Congrejo says:

    Oh, and how about giving full landscaping perms of the roadsides and ‘maintenance land’ to the locals in the region and allow them some REAL input in helping to beautify their neighbourhood?

  145. Man Monnett says:

    Finally the road will be finished … i’d love to help in some way the improvement of Mainland. How can some one apply? I’m an expert builder. πŸ™‚

  146. Bad Bobbysocks says:

    I have no doubt that the selected builders are top notch but I think you should have allowed more participation and submissions from the general populace maybe using the 10 as judges and consultants and allow nominations for more sites to be overhauled if successful. Open it to individuals and groups to submit designs and ideas.I agree theres a dire need to stop the adfarm eyesore as the single biggest improvement to mainland asap

  147. aliceinwire says:

    oh
    i want take part of the builder team
    wow πŸ˜€

  148. Insider Trading says:

    I doubt it’s about getting the best builders, just more free advertising to friends (ever right clicked to find out who made something?), probably asked for free land because the land they own is lagged by 100 bots, no wonder many people think this place is a joke.

  149. At0m0 Beerbaum says:

    I noticed most of the roads on the “horse shoe” shaped continent (I dont know its name) are just filled in with trees and grass and it makes that continent look podunk.

    it’s the continent that’s above the original one, and you can see a shape of texas for one of the sims.

  150. At0m0 Beerbaum says:

    er to clarify to above post, the areas where there would be roads have trees and grass in them.

    also the newest continent could use some roads too.

    So yeah this is probably a good thing

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