[UPDATE] Second Life Server Code Upgrade Tue Jan 29

[UPDATE 17:45 p.m. PST –teeple]

The primary upgrade process is finished. We’re still working on getting transaction histories re-enabled.

[UPDATE 15:49 p.m. PST –teeple]

The deployment team is re-applying the server code upgrade.

The sole culprit from the earlier attempt was a new database query introduced into the resident login sequence….one which performed charmingly in QA, but which showed serious antisocial tendencies once moved into production.

That query has been replaced and the code upgrade is underway again. Asset operations may be slow during the upgrade, but they should be reliable.

[UPDATE 14:16 p.m. PST –teeple]

Rez and transfer operations should be safe, and the Friends Online service will be turned back on momentarily. We’re still working on getting transaction history re-enabled; we’ll get that up ASAP.

[UPDATE 13:03 p.m. PST –teeple]

My abject apologies; I should’ve been clearer. “Partial rollback” is an unsettling term. We’re rolling back the server code. We’re not rolling back regions.

[UPDATE 12:46 p.m. PST –teeple]

Transaction history will be off line a bit longer than anticipated this afternoon. Transactions aren’t being lost; they’re just currently unavailable for viewing. In addition, we’re taking Friends Online out of service until we’ve stabilized the grid.

[UPDATE 12:35 p.m. PST –teeple]

Logins are slow or failing, inventory is problematic. We’re doing a partial rollback of the server code to stabilize as quickly as possible. Please do not rez or transfer valuable (no-copy) assets in world until we give an all clear. We’ll be broadcasting this message to the grid very shortly.

[UPDATE 11:56 a.m. PST –teeple]

As part of the backend upgrade, we’re about to temporarily disable account transaction history. We expect to have it back within fifteen minutes.

*****

[UPDATE 11:55 a.m. PST –teeple]

Work proceeds apace. As part of the code upgrade, we’re also doing some tweaks to the login servers. If you’re using the Windlight viewer, you may notice that the login panel has temporarily relocated to the top of your screen. It’s functional in its temporary location, and it’ll be back in its normal location shortly.

*****

On Tuesday, January 29, (10:30 AM – 12:00 PM) we will be upgrading the code running on our central second life servers. This will mainly add stability fixes and set the stage for upcoming new features. It will also include fixes for the following issues:

SVC-930: Prims set for sale – prices are incorrectly set when multiple prims taken to inventory and rezzed

SVC-1039: llResetScript() from a state without a touch_start handler does not re-enable touch in default state

We do not expect any service interruption during the upgrade, and we will be following it up with a rolling restart of most Second Life regions on Wednesday, January 30th. Restarts are expected to begin around 2:30 PM and take approximately 5 hours.

Watch this space for progress reports

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153 Responses to [UPDATE] Second Life Server Code Upgrade Tue Jan 29

  1. Gregg Niven says:

    no service interruption? doesn’t a rolling restart constitute service interruption?

    lol good luck with your fixes LL. Hope you can stop everyone from crashing every 5 minutes. My screen stays lit up with who is online/offline due to continuous and frustrating crashes. Will this fix the CRASH when crossing sim orders?

    Really do wish you all the best of luck with a non-interupting server CODE upgrade.

    🙂

  2. jz paine says:

    Umm not really if you read it right Gregg.. They said during the “Upgrade”. Not during the roling restarts.

  3. Ann Otoole says:

    thank god this multiple prim collection price problem will be fixed finally.

  4. U M says:

    Lets hope shall we…………

  5. Clang Bailey says:

    I hope it fixes the problem of every other teleport leads to a SL crash.

  6. Stacey Sugar says:

    I dont know why everyone continues to complain about the consistent problems of the SL interface and backend services. The problems are lifelong. Problems in the game that were here when I started in 2005 are still here in the game in 2008. They were probably here plenty before I got here and will definitely be here when I am gone let me tell you.

    But I must say that CTRL+ALT+V is a joke though, why allow anyone and everyone to see your land media settings, thats a vulnerability I dont like! I believe only the individual landholder, or group with correct permissions should be able to view the land media settings. I bet that hasnt been considered a vulnerability in this “server code upgrade”!

    :p

  7. U M says:

    If you think 2005 problems that still continue. 2004 problems are still occuring…….

  8. Moy Loon says:

    @1 It’s your computer/connection leading to your crashes.

    @6 It wouldn’t matter, you can just use a ‘netstat’ to see streaming media, or look at your log file/terminal window

  9. Michael Fairplay says:

    Stability fixes? Sounds good if it will actually come to pass, but you’ve been promising stability for years and haven’t provided. Stability before flashy features and making up arbitary rules to apease the moral minority. I’ll keep preaching that until you get it.

  10. Eric Mauvaise says:

    I hope this new server code will lead to faster teleports on the TG i have heard they are lightning fast on the MG.

  11. Sandy says:

    @8 i’ve almost similar problems as Gregg and you mentioned to him it’s his internet connection….i’ve a 30MB leased line from my provider cause i use it for my biz…any other good meant tips? cause in that case it can’t be my internetconnection

    i’ll hope everything will go well and wish LL good luck in gettin more stability into SL…we could need it sometimes

  12. Shai Khalifa says:

    Stability would be wonderful. At the moment I have to expect at least 3 freeze/crashes before I get in any way stable for an extended session.

    That’s not including grey-screen teleport failures.

    And I hope the upgrade means I can use a viewer other than 1.18.3 – because none of the others allow me to tp at all, upload textures or see my groups – something I’ve reported on in Jira btw.

    I can’t use Windlight, because I can’t tp, upload files or access my groups – but it looks pretty, so long as I don’t want to do anything or go anywhere.

    Can’t use the whizbang new Search – because I couldn’t go to any of the places I’d find anyway.

    sigh – would be great if someone could fix these issues for me – that I’ve been reporting for the past 2 months or more.

    Good luck with the fixes LL – hope some of my problems resolve themselves.

  13. Tulip Farella says:

    can you do something about certain sims being more laggy than others? an average time per hour for looking at that hourglass icon is 2%. some sims its 60-70%. and its not my pc. if it was i’d have same % everywhere. its the actual sim itself. Creeve Town, and CoLA to name two. thanks.x

  14. EliteData says:

    Reply to # 6 Stacey Sugar about the parcel media settings:
    Even if LL were to take away CTRL+ALT+V to prevent viewing the parcel media settings, you could still easily find the media address by using a TCP connection viewer or Ethereal packet sniffer.
    The only real use for CTRL+ALT+V is the ability to fly in fly-restricted areas.

  15. Winter Ventura says:

    “SVC-930: Prims set for sale – prices are incorrectly set when multiple prims taken to inventory and rezzed”

    FINALLY

  16. Cat Gisel says:

    YAY for ya’ll! We gotta be patient, it’s gotta get better 🙂

  17. Yes for the llReset!

  18. Gregg Niven says:

    @ 8 Not my connection and definitely NOT my 4000 usd pc ty ty. this would b SL glitches. Not my Hardware, LL Software.

  19. Silas S. says:

    Sim border crashing and teleport crashing is getting really old. Can anyone recall the last time you could walk/fly across a region border reliably and multiple times without problems? (there actually was a small period of time when it worked right)

  20. Ryanna Enfield says:

    Crashing during TP about 50% of the time, logging back into a completely frozen or stuck AV resulting in another relog… Random complete computer freeze ups resulting in a hard reboot. BTW crashing in mid TP does not generate a crash log. I always submit a crash log when prompted… I’ve no response yet that would indicate anyone is even tracking any of that data at all. If they were, they would see that within the past two months I’ve been crashing at least five times during the time I’m logged into SL. If they were counting the hours I’m logged into SL, they would also note it has dwindled substantially because my performance in SL is so horrid these days, all I can do is sit there and pull out my hair when I’m in SL. I’m very sorry that I even have a Premium Account and even more sad that I’m paying for Land Tier in an obviously Beta SL. I have sent support request after support request documenting my crashing and issues… I received one response last week asking me to download a program (WinMTR) to track lag issues with my Cable ISP, which only showed that there was no packet loss or lag with my ISP. Then they requested my hardware information and log info, which I gave to LL at their request. They also requested I update my video drivers and such, which I have done. I have yet to hear back from them. These issues did not exist for me approximately two months ago. Sure lag has always been an issue.. But it rarely crashed me completely out of SL. I don’t remember ever crashing in mid TP, I simply remember TP failed notices. JIRA is a mess with all of these problems having already been reported. Why is there no response from SL? Anyway, I have more time now to read the blog since I can’t stand constantly having to relog into SL after every crash. I’m very saddened to see that none of the fixes listed above, though important, even come close to addressing these other important issues that I’m sure some, if not a lot of you out there are experiencing. ~So frustrated

  21. Ryanna Enfield says:

    @18 You are right. LL blamed it on my ISP made me download a program (WinMTR) and guess what it shows? Yup not my ISP. @8 Guess again. You are wrong just like LL was wrong. Funny now that LL has proof it isn’t my ISP they are not responding?

  22. Drake Angelus says:

    I ve got a 5k custom PC and u know what I dont have the issue ur having . But I do know that if ur crashing could be ur Video card…Drivers…ISP…and yea some of it SL. But Are ya running Windlight or the normal live client…if its windlight then that would explain alot of ur issues. Also as to the Friendslist being broken I was told by a few lindens when asked there’s no way of fixing this with out totally redoing the game eng. its bug they cant pin down…Yes alot of 04 bugs are here and some left.. I joined in 04 and don’t have as much problems as I did back then…I do know SL software is picky about the hardware it runs on..I ve had to replace a few cards due to burn out or just not running right I find that ATI cards dont run as well the Nvida cards with SL …And gods help u if u have Vista and SL …And you dont get an interuption to service on restarts…if you move to another sim…Just saying my 2 cents

  23. Drake Angelus says:

    Btw as to ISP issues if ur running wireless its listed on the SL website as no supported….

  24. Taina Latte says:

    It’s worse when you buy Lindens that are not given to you and every time you call about it, they tell you “tomorrow”

  25. Lenny Looming says:

    #6 – most assuredly YES – the whole Ctrl-alt-v thing is the devil…

    100% of my business function in SL relies solely on streaming media and I’ve invested a massive amount of effort and paid several people to develop an awesome system… Yet nothing subverts the ctrl-alt-v “bug” which is really disconcerting as it reveals the very streams I charge money for.

    I make plenty of money as it is, but I have many times caught people floating over my video pods stealing streams using ctrl-alt-v. I routinely ban them upon discovery, but I can only ban up to 300 and I’m rapidly approaching my limit.

    Ok, so this has nothing to do with the topic but it was a point I felt compelled to remark on as all my submissions to LL have been exclusively and blatantly ignored otherwise. “Maybe” one of them will read this and finally do something about it? Naw, I almost forgot who I was talking about here.

    On second thought… Nevermind…

  26. Lestat Demain says:

    Bah pass me the code and i`ll fix it 😛
    oh u linden guys…take a closer look at kdu.dll and xul.dll and you will find thats where most of the problems are…have no trouble with tp nor inventory nor with friends lists *slaps another bug* good luck with the update lol and the rest of u stop ya whining *slaps a resident with a bug*

  27. Damen Hax says:

    @ 20

    Every time I’ve had an issue with LL they have responded within 2 working days. Considering the size of populous and the amount of staff, this is more than reasonable. Every single issue solved.

    Crashing.. Maybe your graphics are set to maximum settings when your graphics card is not as hearty as you’re led to believe.
    I run a mod – low end computer on SL for the majority, I don’t crash often, if I do it’s usually because I’m crossing a sim border with great speed (even that is rare). My connection is set to 500kb. Much less than the average user (some in excess of 3mb) and still I very rarely crash. If logged in for hours at a time things can slow down, this is more to do with ‘windows’ poor memory management, as linux flavors don’t seem to slow down in the same respect.(i don’t use mac so no clue there).

    Imagine how many crash reports LL gets.. and you expect a response?.. Back to reality, there is some very talented people in the LL team, it would be stupid to think they are not trying their best to provide a stable environment for us all to enjoy. I think it’s safe to assume LL is aware of the issues, and they don’t need us reminding them on EVERY single blog post.

  28. richard says:

    update this is not sounding good !

  29. @19, Silas, I can’t remember the last time I crashed on a region crossing. However, I’m generally moving between sparsely populated private islands, and my avatar has a total of 12 prims and 16 scripts as attachments (and it should really be much less than that). Have you tried walking around with a newbie avatar and seeing if it makes a difference?

  30. Ryanna Enfield says:

    @20 Just because an issue is not affecting you, does not mean it isn’t affecting a lot of people. Look at JIRA and the posts about crashing during Mid TP. Or, read the previous blogs above incase you missed the other posts about the same issues. If it was as simple as LL responding to me to tell me that I have my graphic setting set too high for my graphics card, which I don’t… Don’t you think they would have responded already? I’m sure they would love to resolve my issue and never have to hear from me again. I’ve been in SL since 05. Been a Premium member since January 06. I have not had any of these issues prior to the past two months. In fact, I never had a reason to even contact support prior to two months ago. Nothing has changed but the upgrades and such to SL. I’m very happy for you that you have received a response from SL withing two business days. It is not the case here with my support request. The reality is… These issues have been reported on JIRA for nearly two months now from quite a lot of residents. I have not seen a fix yet. I guess I don’t need to remind you how long the issue they are fixing in this new code release has been on JIRA?

  31. Ryanna Enfield says:

    Correction @27 see above

  32. Phantom Ninetails says:

    Sooo… Think this’ll fix the vehicle region crossing issue where occasionally the regions won’t realized you’ve crossed, and the vehicle keeps on driving with you on it (but the vehicle no longer recieves controls, and it keeps going on the last control even after you relog from the “you have been disconnected” error)?

    And about SVC-930… Boy, did that ever take a long time! Looks important too. Like, show stopper important.

  33. Claudine Chantilly says:

    @29 .. and in a further up-beat press release, governor linden announced today that instability and lag would soon be a thing of the past with the imminent release of the b/w asci stick-figure version of SL..

    “we are certain that passing only the avatar id between servers, will greatly enhance the user experience during teleports and sim-crossings”, he added confidently,

    “and furthermore, there will be no attachments to show their fondness for leaping from their assigned position and attacking crotches” ..

  34. Harvz Wilber says:

    hoooray for stability fixes. I think its great the at the lindens have been spending more effort on the infrastructure of the grid rather than shineys. I only realy have problems when my kids start playing their online games on the same shared internet connection.

    A few things that I have learned from using graphic intense programs.
    1- notebooks never seem to do as well as desktops. if they could, nobody would still make desktops.

    2- Using the onboard video reserves a portion of system RAM for graphics. Better to have a separate video card or best a graphics accelerator card. These have their own RAM, usually the much faster RD or static RAM used exclusively for graphics, freeing up system RAM.

    3- close all unnecessary programs, especially messengers or updaters, or anything else that will bogg down your bandwidth. Honestly when im in world i dont want to be interrupted by people in the same room, much less IM chatters on the internet who cant manage SL.

    4-when all else fails, shut off voice. IMHO it was a silly idea in the first place. Avatars tend to clump at the TP point and not explore or build or much of anything but yak about nothin much. I know its thru a separate server, but it still uses client side resources that can be better dedicated to stability. Some folks think voice is thebest thing yet. Sure, add webcam streaming and you have netmeeting.

    Thanks, Lindens, for giving us the best grid you can and making it better as you go.

  35. Elbereth Witte says:

    #33:
    That would be pretty cool actually, though I suspect it would not fix region crossing issues on any level.

    I did notice that sometimes region clocks are not always perfectly in sync.

  36. Stellerex Ah says:

    Why dont you upgrade a real fix like the bug exploit where someone spams you with 1000+ drop down blue boxes on the right top corner of your screen to prevent newbies from crashing your client?? Im tryin to sell and build here and nothing is being done about the serious bugs. Lameness if you ask me. Pure LAMENESS! =(((

  37. All day today I was booted out. When in the animations did not work. I lost two purchases: paid but never got items.

    Please fix?

  38. Myron Curtis says:

    There is a third party issue that may be causing some of the problems I have read here:
    Spyware, and Adware on your PC that is competing for resources behind the scene.
    I have found this to be the case a few times on my own system.
    However, I have also noticed that there are times when it seems that LL’s servers might be the ones that are infected.

  39. Clang Bailey says:

    Can I just add that one of the reasons why I don’t pay for a premium account is because of the lack of stability of the overall system. A condition that would not change given a premium account.

    Stabilize the system before adding enhancements. Get rid of the memory leaks in the client. PROVIDE SUPPORT FOR BASIC AND PREMIUM ACCOUNTS until the product is actually working.

  40. Alicia Sautereau says:

    cane we PLEASE have a 503 fix allready

    glad to see the touch() state change function is fixed now *crosses fingers* 🙂

  41. Wyald Woolley says:

    “SVC-930: Prims set for sale – prices are incorrectly set when multiple prims taken to inventory and rezzed”

    This was internally fixed months ago but for some reason never added to the server code until now. (Too busy typing up “voice” surveys, getting Havok4 debuged, working on WindLight, breaking the service phone system, and screwing up the web site to take care of SL merchants)

  42. harwood says:

    just a thought….
    i run SL on two systems.. mostly depending on what time of day it is…

    system #1-
    P4 3.4g northwood (watercooled), ATI AIW 2006 ed., 1.5g 2100 DDR, SB audigy on an ASUS mobo, win XP home SP2

    system #2-
    AMD 6000 (3g) dual core (Tt MaxOrb cooled), 4g 800mhz DDR2, eVga 8600 GTS 512m, ABit mobo, onboard sound (also tried the SB .. no difference on sys resource… left the SB in the P4 for stability) running Vista Home Premium… ALL drivers and win updates and directX 10 freshly downloaded.

    BOTH systems run on an 8M cable connection, BOTH on hardwire LAN to the router. have also tried running both systems individually…

    and its the p4 that runs more stable… maybe one or two crashes in a full day…
    and the new system crashes out at least once an hour… lags on high texture rez/multi texture/object load… camera swings more than 20m away …

    looking at the difference.. its VISTA thats lagging it… makes ya wonder how many people out there have newer PC’s that are vista loaded??
    Id REALLY be curious to see how many people with trouble running SL are on vista… how compatible it is with SL, etc…
    Im going to try to load XP in a few days… give it a week or so .. and note it out… but honestly.. it seems to be a Vista thing if you ask me… the AMD system is well over twice the system the P4 is … and XP seems to run MUCH more stable…

    might be something to look into :))

    H.H.

  43. Berry Steinhoff says:

    Thanks for the heads-up. Any chance this will fix the abnormally long delay when trying to log in using WindLight. Seems to be getting longer and longer these days..

  44. Elvis Orbit says:

    Hi Just bought a new Comp Intel Dual Core 2 Quad with NVIDIA 8600 Geforce. (Vista) It crashed all the time. But i fixed it. All I did was updat the video card driver and I have not crashed once by SL. (Using Windlight Viewer too) Runs perfectly now. I went to test it in high lag sims and was still smooth. My net connection is very fast Fiber Optic so that helps as lot.

  45. Steady Enzo says:

    I have upgraded my PC, nvidia card gforce 8800 series 64 dual core processor 2 gig ram , and when logged in I crash. or Avatar freezes evry 5 min.. or i just start walking and cant controll avatar. My new PC is basicly useless in SL. Ive done all the card seetings and driver updates recommended.

    Now a same time i have a laptop which i can run in SL with not much problems except lag issues. and occasional crash during TPs.

    Major diffrence besides hardware is my laptop runs XP and works pretty good in SL… The new PC is running Vista. And i believe their is a big issue with vista and client viewer. If no patch is available. I think i will blow away vista and try running XP on new system… Any comments out their.

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  47. U M says:

    @42 Hi Harwood.

    I have a 6000+ amd but with a geforce 7900 gtx. But With XP Pro

    Is your system Ready build? Or a DYI? Problems is “LOADED” systems have less problems then ones that DYI.
    From what i been hearing these days is many are using vista with no problem. But issues come up with some that ugraded from XP to vista.

    Problem is with the camera swinging bug is LL has not fixed this bug AT ALL! So its not your system but that of LL problem.

    usagi

  48. Totem Flow says:

    I’ll believe it when I see it… stability…ROFL best joke i’ve heard this year LOL

  49. U M says:

    Crash!!!!!!!!!!! did the grid monkeys have their banana break today?
    Total joke today!

  50. Pepper Haas says:

    Any news/progress on the group IM bug you all introduced way back in April 2007? Before that, group IM worked and group notices worked. They haven’t, since. SL is so big and complicated you’d think basic chat would be something simple for them to get right.

  51. Joshe Darkstone says:

    Quick question is this the same server upgrade that we got on the private islands awhile back?

    As to the sim border crossings issue… Ive recently aquired multiple sims and with only a single person on 7 regions, and even after a fresh reboot, Im getting some very strange border crossing issues,. Sometimes at speed, sometimes just crossing in flight, flying off the grid. being tossed around like a rag doll for 20 minutes at a time, orbiting like i never even saw at Ahern, the list goes on.

    Personally I think its the server upgrade rolled out to private islands about 9 days ago is the root cause, but then the upgrade was rolled out an hour after my sims were delivered so I didnt get much of a look at the old issues.

    A suggestion, and I know it should go to the jira but it will likely be ignored there anyway so I’ll spit it out here where people are talking…

    If you were to anticipate the border crossing (speed+trajectory) and send a few packets before the crossing occurs – call it an introduction, or a heads up 🙂 – the problems at the border might be diminished considerably. The problem as I see it is the sheer volume of information that must be exchanged during the handoff at the border. It simply isnt happening close enough to real-time. and you are probably losing information. I call it server confuzzlement 😛

    Oh… and LL support rocks for me – keep up the good work, Spike rocks 🙂

  52. The internet isn’t magic, it’s technology.

    You can pay thousands of dollars a month for your services and it still can get screwed up in between you and where you’re going. It’s like blaming your destination for the highway traffic you experience on your way there.

    Your First Life is still there, go play with it for a while when the frustrations and pressure of SL are just too much for you to cope with. I don’t suggest a road trip, though. There might be traffic.

  53. Kahni Poitier says:

    Since the last Windlight update, I’ve got issues with viewing prims from over a distance of approx 20m. It seems to be using the “avatar aliasing” technique on things over a certain distance away. I can see everyones “personal lights”, and most of the things I have set on my land to be 90% alpha transparent, until I walk close to them. I can’t view the scores on my machines or the display of my radio until I zoom right in on them, either.

    I’ve got an ATI HD2600 XT, and it works great most of the time. I’ve got a strange issue with half the objects in my view glowing when I try to run certain settings, but if I kick and pick at my video settings, I can make those go away (it’s supposedly something to do with atmospheric shaders, but even when they’re disabled, I get the issues)

    Stability wise? I haven’t been too bad lately. Even though there have been some periods of severe lag, even on barren sims. I’m not sure if it’s an inventory server issue (which there have been plenty lately that I’ve run into) or of it’s other stuff, but slowly, things HAVE been improving.

    I’m still irked about having certain attachments “lock up” on me when I teleport, and other items which “un-attach” themselves when I relog. It’s maddening, but less so than my browser crashing every 15 minutes (which it doesn’t do so much. Thank you windlight!)

    Good luck, guys, I’ll cross my fingers.

  54. Fixyour Product says:

    I so hope, the grid will be playable again after that….

    It´s a bit like m*sturbation without coming if you permanently get sales IM`s but no money is being added to your account

    Strange enough it seems to work better while i am offline…So if situation remains, i need to be logged off to make money with sl. Great Idea!

    My Sl experience has never been worse than the last few days, and i am really scared of you, LL, using us paying customers as crash test dummies for your Havok4 thingie. While i think it will improve sl, i also think you will impose it on everyone without it being tested.

    If you update today doesn´t help the situation, again, then please someone from LL step forward and give an explanation.

    It´s not bad as usual at the moment. It really is unplayable! Please believe it, LL

    Thanx & Good Luck 🙂

  55. Angelique LaFollette says:

    Great Going,, you “Stablized” every Build on the sim of Bragg Out of Existance. This after days of Having the sim Crash every Ten Minutes. I’ve lost my Home, and a Number of Objects, My Landlort Lost a Unique Build he spent MONTHS perfecting,, the whole sim Looks like Dresden.

    Great Job LL Keep it up.

    Angel.

  56. U M says:

    “The internet isn’t magic, it’s technology.”

    OH WOW did you think this up yourself? :/ Well since i don`r understand your way of explaination .Lets me just say this.

    “IF” a service doesnt “WORK” IN RL what happens? You go to the CS right? What does CS do? They try to fix the problem right? Thats if they can. What was LL “TRIED” to do during these past 4 years? “TRIED” but “only at times they fix things right. LAt remark Second Life is a service right? We play it right? We pay for it right ( well atleast I do). So this ……………
    “You can pay thousands of dollars a month for your services and it still can get screwed up in between you and where you’re going. It’s like blaming your destination for the highway traffic you experience on your way there.”

    Doesnt make sence……….Have a nice day and next time do a little hard thinking before trying to explain.

  57. Iexo Bethune says:

    @ Stacey Sugar: I actually rather like Ctrl + Alt + V. If I’m passing through a parcel with nice music, I like being able to tune in myself on Winamp without having to pester the owner for the URL. I’m sure alot of owners enjoy not being pestered as well.

  58. Leila Larkham says:

    The crashes being blamed on us doesn’t surprise me, I remember not too long ago people swearing we were doing something wrong and deleting our own inventory… well guess what? We weren’t, it was an SL snafu and haven’t you figured out that we aren’t all connected to this game the same way on the Lindens side and thats why when a certain Texas server goes buggy for them only some of us are affected?

  59. June Oh says:

    I hope this will make the SL programme start up work correctly been poor for a few days. Fed up of getting the “try again” screen prior to getting the log in screen.
    It is allso hard to get the SL web sites to start.
    Love
    June

  60. Tiberius Laval says:

    …Just fix the 24″ iMac Graphic Card bug and I’ll be happy!

  61. Tiberius Laval says:

    …btw, you can see the “Flashing Textures” on YouTube here:

  62. Alicia Roeth says:

    Will this do anything to fix the ongoing problem of not being able to send group instant maessages?? This bug is costing club owners dear and needs to be adressed.

  63. Jodie Greenwood says:

    What is it with the complaining when LL wanna upgrade guys?

    You’d complain more if they didn’t bother trying to fix bugs and just let SL stay bugged and not changed, so why bother protesting to them trying to make things better?

  64. Totem Flow says:

    Maybe Jodie that’s because everytime they ‘Fix’ it, it gets worse!

  65. Vittorio Beerbaum says:

    SVC-930: Prims set for sale – prices are incorrectly set when multiple prims taken to inventory and rezzed

    Thanks God! I’ve put half of my inventory for sale at 200L$ last night because i’ve forgot (always) of this bug.

    @Lindens: does these fixes are applied to the Havok4 beta simulators? Or they follow a different upgrade plan?

  66. Jodie Greenwood says:

    I wouldn’t call it worse @64, just different 😉

    We all wish it was big free, but everything gets bugs in it, CD-ROM games, Operating Systems. Programmers can’t make everything perfect first time, it’d be very hard on a project of this scale to get everything totally perfect, there’s so many problems that can occur, it’s easy to change some code and it knock another part of the code out of place.

    I can understand people not being happy, but is there any need to come on here and spout off about it?

    They’d have alot more to moan about if the Lindens decided not to bother trying anymore 🙂

  67. Azure Lukas says:

    Please confirm that the time of the Rolling Restart is 2:30 PM SL time. In the Calendar it clearly states the time is 10:00 AM SL time. Please also correct whichever entry is incorrect. Thanks – Azure.

  68. Thomas Shikami says:

    @10 The speed of the teleports depends on the amount of scripts and prims in your attachments and the number of groups you are in. The teleports are slow on MG, too

  69. Starsaphire Dagger says:

    NO SERVICE INTERRUPTION? Service has BEEN interrupted… the ability to log in stopped at 4AM. “Unable to connect: Login packet never received”.
    And tomorrow is Maintenance Day? Will we be able to get back in sometime this week?

  70. Dovic Battery says:

    wooo glad they are fixing this.

    SVC-930: Prims set for sale – prices are incorrectly set when multiple prims taken to inventory and rezzed.

    thanks you in advance for getting this one fixed, it’s been a royal pain in the butt.

  71. TheXO says:

    Nice to hear that the majority of upgrades can now be performed without taking the entire grid down – vive le het grid 😀

    I wouldn’t constitute it as a service interruption. A rolling restart means you simply need to hop to another sim for 5 minutes – hardly a pain, certainly in comparision with the entire grid down for 8 hours!!

    There are still a few problems, but SL is *much* more stable than when I first joined, and has about 10 times the userbase. All in all, a good achivement 🙂

  72. Starsaphire Dagger says:

    503 SERVICE NOT AVAILABLE
    Will service be available tomorrow after the rolling re-start?
    Linden Labs?
    Helloe? Anyone at the helm?
    Second Life is dead.

  73. Lolita Abel says:

    What works for me:
    1. Stay away from Vista. I subscribe to both Maximum PC and Computer Power User magazines and they both agree Vista’s more trouble than it’s worth. Numerous power user websites agree that you should hold off at least until SP1. If you still have XP, reformat & revert – you won’t regret it.
    2. Latest drivers yada yada
    3. Use the Nicholaz viewer. It is a patched version of the official client less all of the memory leaks, etc. This viewer is still available in the pre-voice version if you seek maximum stability. Newer post-voice versions are available if you must.
    I have an SL job that requires me to be on 24/7 and I do this daily using:
    Second Life 1.18.0 (6) Sep 2 2007 14:39:47 (SecondLife Nicholaz ‘OldSchool’ Edition)
    CPU: Intel Pentium III (Tualatin core, 0.13 micron process) with internal L2 cache (1405 MHz)
    Memory: 1024 MB
    OS Version: Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2 (Build 2600)
    Graphics Card Vendor: ATI Technologies Inc.
    Graphics Card: RADEON 9550 (Omega 3.8.360) x86/SSE
    OpenGL Version: 2.0.6458 WinXP Release
    Folks, this is a circa year 2000 SLOT 1 motherboard!!! (Asus P3V4X)
    So it’s not so much about horsepower, more about the viewer and OS.
    Seriously, if this old system can run 24/7 with a once a day simple preventative re-boot, shouldn’t yours? Hope this helps….

  74. JSmith says:

    I don’t know if it will help but my crash problems was resolved changing my video card to a new one (GeForce 8600 GT)

  75. TheXO says:

    Not a bad survey actually… I was pleasantly surprised. It seems you are starting to listen based upon your questions – and the fact you are collecting information from residents.

    THANK YOU LL – Don’t stop, keep it up!

  76. hugsalot says:

    Gregg Niven
    A rolling restart means they take sims offline one-by-one and reboot them taking about 5 minutes. The ENTIRE service isn’t taken down all at once, otherwise it wouldn’t be called a “rolling restart.”

    You can teleport to a different sim when the rolling restart hits a sim you’re in and you won’t get kicked offline. So yes this is indeed isn’t considered a service interruption.

  77. Kat Hynes says:

    Please just work on fixing one BIG BUG. INVENTORY LOSS! I have bitten the bullet long enough. Yes I’ve lost items but now it’s gone to far. Apaarently the Lindens ate half my black clothes folder for lunch! Not only that they ate the filet mignons and left me with the hamburgers, (ground chuck at that) ! Can someone please explain how an inventory loss can pick and choose my most expensive/sexy outfits ? And my fellow residents I KNOW when somethings gone not just missplaced. Grand total of me providing the Lindens free lunches over the past year? Approximately $75,000 ! Maybe not much compared to some but very significant to me !

  78. Deeso Saeed says:

    @#72 “Second Life is dead.”

    Yeah. That’s why every weekend the grid tops a new record of simultaneous users.

  79. hugsalot says:

    Stacey Sugar said:
    But I must say that CTRL+ALT+V is a joke though, why allow
    anyone and everyone to see your land media settings, thats
    a vulnerability I dont like!

    I don’t understand, how is this a vulnerability? If I understand this correctly, the media settings just show what shoutcast stream is being used. How is this a vulnerability? Hell I think it’s stupid that the shoutcast address URL is hidden in the first place assuming it’s a public shoutcast server.

  80. Nymf Hathaway says:

    To all Lindens:

    When are you going to start with a proper communication with residents Inworld or even outside?

    At this point I need to ask my landladies for a restart of our sim at a daily base! Last weekend even 5 times within 48 hours!!!!

    You do not communicate to your residents and lag communication towards the sim-owners!

    Every time I crash my minimap turns red and after relog I cannot enter my own home anymore.
    We send a ticket for it, IMed and emailed to Torley Linden but no reaction at all.
    Do you want to make money out of us?

    Work on your communication!
    In Holland if we email our prime minister; we get an answer!

    In the USA / Lindenlab doesn’t service mean a thing!

    Do you even read these messages?????

    An angry,
    Nymf Hathaway…again outside her own sim!

  81. Aisha Freenote says:

    I have an ancient pc with an equally ancient graphics card and Sl seems to work fine most of the time. I think the problems people are complaining about here are mostly to do with their internet connections. Just my 10p.

  82. Steel H says:

    CG, Thanks for the informatiwe blog entry. One question though, the Second Life Outages calendar lists the Jan 30th rolling restart starting at 10amPST, and your post mentioned starting at 2:30pm PST.

    Could you please confirm that there is only one rolling restart (not two) and that it has been moved to start at 2:30pm PST? Thanks.

    One well meaning constructive comment on planned outages: When we plan events and meetings, etc, we use the outage calendar to avoid known interruptions in our planned in-world activities. It is appreciated that when an outage is scheduled in advance that you try to stick to your schedule as much as possible to minimize the impact on events before/after. We like seeing them posted in advance so that we CAN make decisions on events etc., but it can mess up the plans when the schedule is changed at the last minute (changed by 4.5 hours in this case).

    I do realize and appreciate the fact that there are circumstances that may make not always make it possible to properly schedule downtime. Keep up the good work on your continued effort in keeping us up to date, and lets hope in the future that planned outages can be listed on the schedule more accurately.

    Thanks for listening, and thanks for your work on Second Life.

  83. Lowen Kirax says:

    I have an old Windows 2000 server with 1.5 Gb of RAM with a video card that is not the latest release. My experience in SL is fine with occasional friend list not showing and TP not completing and even more occasional crashes. Besides that, everything works just as I would expect RL to work. SL is not perfect but it does the job.

  84. Sistagrlro Wei says:

    Hiya All…I think it is a given that Vista doesn’t work so well with SL. My PC was out of commission for a month, so I ran a router thru a Vista laptop and on the other Vista laptop played SL. This machine had a 256MB ATI graphics card, and I believe that is why I couldn’t use Windlight. The wireless connection gave me no grief whatsoever, but I do have a fast cable connection. My new PC I built myself, 4GB RAM, 512MB nVidia grahics card, and installed XP, runs like a dream. One thing I noted though with my previous PC, I had to up my RAM on an XP machine…this could also be a problem for many…?
    So, if you want to run Windlight a 256MB graphic card isn’t going to cut it, low RAM in any version isn’t going to cut it, yes nVidia is prefferred with its own RAM, as is XP. Bear in mind too…that TV Cards can cause grief…had to tweak mine quite a bit…

    More a sum up…but my experience in SL has mostly been enjoyable…the problems are expected, and lived with. It is an extensive program, how about cutting the team some slack…it could take several more years to really have it smoothly running. Please remember this is revolutionary still, and a model being worked…yes we are the guinea pigs, and I am proud to be…

  85. Egon Rothschild says:

    re#19. i have been touring heterocera & sansara via the road & rr system on foot and on motorcycle over the past few weeks. all of my sim crossings have been fine. only where 4 sims meet in the middle of the road (who designed THAT?) was there any problem.

    neither have i had any problems in tp for a VERY VERY long time.

    so i’m not sure this is a LL problem. could this be a lag problem with some ppl’s pc’s net path to LL?

  86. U M says:

    Hi is it that the web page front is not working as correctly these days ? Please please start First the camera rotation bug! this is getting to be too much to deal with!

  87. anonymous says:

    @Iexo Bethune;

    I pay HARD EARNED money for that stream and ONLY have a certain amount of streams provided with the package I purchased. For YOU to hijack one of my streams THAT I PAY (and then tell your friends about this really kewl stream they must have) for is downright rude and unscrupulous. You are probably one that burns DVD movies or downloads illegal MP3s also. 😦

    @Moy Loon

    Fanboi, ehh?

    Like others have said AFTER your post (AND MANY TIMES PRIOR); NOTHING has changed in OUR environment, ONLY the client code and/or server code has changed…

    What amazes me is some of you seem to think you are network engineers or something… UNLESS you are a technician (CERTIFIED, not a “home grown” (and not A+ either (anyone can get an A+ cerification out of a CrackerJack box)) one; you have no room to speak 😉 I heard a story/saying once… “If you don’t know what the shot is; KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT” 😉 Pretty good advice 😉

  88. Raven Primeau says:

    @78

    You said “Yeah. That’s why every weekend the grid tops a new record of simultaneous users.”

    Wonder how many are LLs own bots to bolster the dropping “over the last 60 days” number, that fell by 200,000 over the weekend. I also wonder how many traffic bots/camping bots *not ppl camping* that 55,000 that was on lagging the grid to a halt were.

    If I TP into a vendor and see clusters of dots high in the sky or underground I refuse to buy from them. same for clubs, tp out and stay the hell out.

  89. Crucial Armitage says:

    I can’t wait for the price fix to be implemented for nearly 3 months this has been a nasty thorn in the side of every single vendor that used single selling boxes.

    Thank you

  90. Jonix Watanabe says:

    @87
    A Shoutcast stream without any further encryption or access control – if you can listen to it on your own hardware, you practically already know the url its from, with or without CTRL-ALT-V. That you dont seem to understand this does not make it less a fact, flawed security through obscurity is what you ask for in this case.

  91. Irene LeShelle says:

    @87 said :
    “I pay HARD EARNED money for that stream and ONLY have a certain amount of streams provided with the package I purchased. For YOU to hijack one of my streams THAT I PAY (and then tell your friends about this really kewl stream they must have) for is downright rude and unscrupulous.”

    It really doesn’t matter if they hide the URL in the media settings field or not.
    The purpose of the URL is to let the SL client create a connection from the avatars local computer to the streaming server.
    So if people visit your land and listen to the music stream you paid for, a connection is created on their local computer to the stream you paid for. Like others have said here, it’s really easy to see on your own PC which connections are established and there is NO WAY you can hide what the IP and port number of your media stream server is.

  92. magnus says:

    One step forward and two steps back. I am now crashing almost 50% of the when Tp-ing. This is BS. Stop screwing around with new stuff and fix the stuff you already have that doesn’t work. TP-ing is as basic in SL as Breathing is in RL and you have screwed this one up royally. And its not just me. Its everyone around me as well. And before the wanna-be tech geeks question the system I am running, I have a mega system fitted with all the more than recommended bells and whistle. Its SL, not me.
    FIX THE DAMN TP.

  93. U M says:

    @92 you are correct. Not just that crashing is becoming a game of sort………..:(

  94. Kristopher Handrick says:

    YAY, I get to say hi on this thread. Its always full and I never get to say anything… SO HI! 😛 looking forwards to some more stability on SL . THANKS LL

  95. Tanya Spinotti says:

    CTRL+ALT+V? I didn’t know about that. Thanks for the tip! 😀

  96. Cynthia Ohara says:

    I hope the severe lags and numerous crashes will be addressed by this ‘fix’ or by something soon. I have sent many reports on what was happening during the crash or lag sequence, but after ten days, the conditions have only worsened.

    Is it possible that there are too many innovations being layered onto a less than stable foundation?

    I have enjoyed Second Life but I come here less and less and stay for shorter periods of time because of the instability.

    When I do log on, I notice the “Online Now” numbers are usually about 10% fewer than they were two months ago. Coincidence?

  97. U M says:

    @88
    look at these numbers they telling the public these days oer here in JAPAN……..

    POPULATION

    Residents Logged-in During Last 7 Days 485,301
    Residents Logged-in During Last 14 Days 629,750
    Residents Logged-in During Last 30 Days 879.269
    Residents Logged-in During Last 60 Days 1,349,114

    TOTAL NUMBER 12,024,171

    Now they are BS us over here as well………. Does LL think we Japanese are that stupid……..

    AS for the BOTS ll are dropping you Bet they are!!!!!!!!!

  98. SL Player™ says:

    I found if I stay in one place for to long that’s when all the freezing and crashes begin. I can be fine panning around when I first arrive, even jacking up the draw to 512, but as soon as I walk away from my PC for bit and resume, I’m in ice city. I can barely slide my cursor up to the edit preferences.

    It never works right after that. I’d be lucky for a TP to even work. The longer I stay in an area the less chance I’ll have to TP out of there. I can rapid fire TPing no problems just as long as I don’t stay over a minute.

  99. Marcus Antonelli says:

    New features? Can we get the current ones working first? Little things like inventory disappearing, not being able to teleport, you know. the usual stuff that’s been broken since time began.

    Marcus

  100. angelus Nielson says:

    Can you address the fact that the Linden client has supposedly been “hacked” by people with an anti-fur agenda who have gone and used it to mess up furry sims?

    I know that there’s a lot of “The sky is falling!” by SLers in general (Anyone remember “Copybot will destroy the SL econemy?”) but it’d be nice to have a word from the Lindens.

  101. Arcadia says:

    Stability is my main issue…if this can be fixed I have no problems with SL. This should be the priority, adding more content although nice and keeping up with the times should be second to this, hopefully this new code does the trick…I don’t hold my breath though.

  102. Atlwolf Blabbermouth says:

    Well it’s noon SLT and logins are down. looks like the fun begins.

  103. Kiara LeSabre says:

    Whatever was done stripped the Bragg sim almost completely clean. Whole builds are gone without a trace, or with only fragments floating in midair remaining.

    Forgive me if I’m less than enthusiastic about this “upgrade,” both in light of all that I’ve lost because of it and in light of the fact that the awkward clumsiness with which it has so far been implemented bodes ill for the final results.

    I suppose it’s probably too much to ask that you actually fix what you destroyed.

  104. Cant (twitch) Log ( twitch) in!!!

  105. Ann Otoole says:

    i guess turning off account transactions history turns off the entire login system eh?

  106. Elysium Eilde says:

    so..by now *we* all know logins are down…think LL will actually put it on the blog?

  107. Second Life is Open

    The Second Life grid and the Second Life web site are open.

    Bull s**t.
    Actually, it would be really nice if i could visit the TSL forums without getting a 50x every 5 minutes, and IF THE GODDAMN LOGINS WORKED.

  108. Dominic Palisades says:

    Is it normal that logins are down? Awesome…

  109. No dominic, it’s not.

  110. DirkMeriman says:

    Any word on when logins will be back up?

  111. Belle says:

    I’m guessing that

    “Work proceeds apace. As part of the code upgrade, we’re also doing some tweaks to the login servers.”

    means that Logins are disabled. I’ve been trying for the last 10 minutes, AND I was in the middle of a business transaction when I tried to TP and crashed. Surprise, surprise. So I’ve lost yet another customer because of service interruption and the same crash that seems to never get fixed.

  112. Wait, even if secondlife.com is messed up, it’s *.(grid).lindenlab.com we care about, right?

  113. Mercedez Decosta says:

    “We do not expect any service interruption during the upgrade”

    LMAO…so much for that statment…i cant log in from any location.

  114. Nice opportunity to catch up on TWiT i suppose.

  115. Kacy says:

    Um, cool, so I can’t login, is it just me or did the grid get effed up once again?

  116. Would be a little bit nicer if SL actually said “Something has gone wrong”, instead of this dumb login loop.

  117. Aislinn says:

    Oh goodie! More LL “fixes”! Your last “fix” ate my entire studio AND the contents. When you were contacted in world you could not help, when you were called you could not bother to help; your support ticket was a waste of time as you failed to respond.

    Your “customer service” is a BIG honking joke! You don’t give a damn about ANY of your residents, but you sure as hell do not mind triple billing me for advertising my businesses in your search/ ad spaces.

    I co-own a quater sim, and my business partner and I are expanding, and yet, according to LL we do not matter, we are not spending enough to “matter”!

    Its about time, the IRS and governments of all nations with residents in SL started looking over your transactions. If you intend to take in real money and cannot provide the service that is being paid for, you are guilty of fraudulent activities. SL stops becoming a “game” when real world money is lost and LL refuses to pony up with real fixes or real answers.

    As it is, I cannot even log in to check on my other shop to see if you left it standing, or if it too is victim of your bloody awful “updates”!

    Why don’t you fix what you broke, and stop trying to add more flash and dash to a game world that is buggered beyond all belief?

  118. Mar says:

    Can’t rez anything, can’t delete anything, can’t take anything. Tried relogging, and that’s me locked out of SL until the logins are fixed. *sigh* Might as well go to bed now.

  119. BraadWorst Barth says:

    well great to hear, a upgrade.
    but eh….i cannot log in now. it just keep on saying logging in….
    and thats it.

  120. Sascha says:

    We do not expect any service interruption during the upgrade,….

    [12:21] Attempt to rez an object failed.

    [12:27] Attempt to rez an object failed.

  121. Ann Otoole says:

    apparently a lot of people are dropping because sl simply froze up. i guess the “upgrade” is no longer going so well.

  122. WynterSkye Gray says:

    Logins failing…..*sigh*…Of course no mention of any problems here by LL. *shrugs* Just a tiny little “Sorry, everything has taken a poop. Gone to lunch bbl” would be nice.

  123. Belle says:

    [UPDATE 12:27 p.m. PST –belle]

    We lied. The grid will be down for another 8 hours as always, whenever we apply “minor fixes.”

  124. Lozlo Peng says:

    SL isn’t working? 😐

  125. Ciaran Laval says:

    It would surely at least be polite to update your blog in the wake of the login issues wouldn’t it? As the forums are performing so poorly with all the 503 errors, people need to be kept informed.

  126. Sherry Greggan says:

    I only ever post here when SL is hosed… Oh wait… Here I am!

  127. Naima Aya says:

    Hey did u mention that would not affect logins, but I can make a login since 3 hours Weeeee I thought something is missed lol

    C U Team

  128. Guy says:

    your system is broken [yet again]

    you know… i stopped logging in to the game because it was extremely flakey (crashes, services not available, etc) and after selling my land I left my store open… so now every once in a while I come and transfer money out – but for the past week or two its been a crap shoot since you can’t even keep a web server running. Jesus.

  129. Something not right here, logins effected (can’t), website up and down like a yoyo…..

  130. Bee Mizser says:

    FFS

    I can’t log in and my SL wife is singing live……

    This is NOT the time to do this LL

  131. Lozlo Peng says:

    503 errors.. login failure & errors.. crashes inworld.. no blog update.. i’m bored.. i want to eShop..

  132. Natalya Lilliehook says:

    …and so it goes…..they fix it…they break it….so why do they fix it ? *sighs…and now the homepage has a 503 error…jeeze.

  133. Keksakallu says:

    er… glad i’m not the only one who can’t log in.

  134. Absolute says:

    Thanks for letting me crash again and disabling my login in the middle of a build. I like your “precise” announcements.

  135. Vic says:

    well for no service interruption……i started trying to get on about 30 minutes ago…..to no avail….and now the total on has dropped from 51,000 to 46,000 i am guessing that 5,000 others are a little upset as well right now….no service interuptions?…well if you can’t get service i guess it can’t get interuppted….

  136. Lozlo Peng says:

    *waits for the blog to become a 503 error too*

    TEEPLE IS MFNIRJGFB MINE!!!!!!1

    cometome.

  137. Arcadia says:

    That’s 125 residents so far complaining…this is getting beyond a joke…before anything else is added, the stability of this ‘game’ needs to be looked at good and proper, find a fix and do it, until then I for one am not spending any more of my real money on this.

  138. pantaiputih korobase says:

    I don’t dare to log off, but I would love to vhange my clothes which is not working :-)) At least I can stare at the sky watching my friends crash….

  139. Woah, we’ve lost 25000 online in minutes.

  140. Keksakallu says:

    right now though, instead of getting an error message, i have the ‘sl may appear frozen’ screen for … like five minutes?

    Hey, maybe SL IS frozen!

  141. mystic berry says:

    I CANT LOG ON SINCE LASTNIGHT GETTIN NO WHERE!! I REBOOT & STILL NOTING WTF IS GOIN ON! I GOT ON FOR 15MIN EARLIER..& CRASH!! WHY ISNT THIS TEMP INTRERPTION OVER WITH???? ALL I SEE IS LOGON BLACK SCREEN AND THE ARROW MOVING SLOWLY AND MESSAGE SOMETHING ABOUT A PROBLEM FOR UNABLE TO CONNECT??

  142. Trex Yao says:

    Please.

    FIX SL.

    .

  143. Chavi Skomoroklov says:

    Going wrong guys?? Can’t relog anymore :-@@@

  144. Arcadia has a point, there’s something fucking SL up, find it, and REMOVE IT.

  145. Lozlo Peng says:

    haha 25k in two minutes.. it just shows how slack second life’s stability is in general.. I mean 25k of residents probably wanted to relog and couldn’t log back on after.

  146. Chavi Skomoroklov says:

    Problems guys??? Can’t relog anymore for over 20min now.

  147. I’m in! after about 10 minutes staring at progress bar it worked, so patience required?

  148. Keksakallu says:

    SL does appear frozen and, despite Hegel, sometimes appearance and reality are the same…

  149. I’M LOGGING IN!!!!!!

  150. SL Zombie says:

    Nice job folks. Can’t even log in.

    After 8 years, a person would think a company would have its act together. Pitiful. Unprofessional. Sad.

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