Full Region Auctions Are Back!

After a few months without any new mainland regions available on our auction site, starting tomorrow we will resume whole region listings.

In-world land values have recovered over the last month to the point where the grid wide average across all land transactions is above L$7.5 per meter but, more significantly, the true mainland average (which excludes zero price, private estate and Linden auction sales) is above L$11/m on some days, which is relatively high. We have therefore decided to offer new mainland regions once more.

We will start with 2 to 4 regions going up for auction each day, the first of which will begin tomorrow morning.

About harmonylinden

I am a Concierge at Linden Lab.
This entry was posted in Announcements & News, Concierge, Land. Bookmark the permalink.

101 Responses to Full Region Auctions Are Back!

  1. MCM Villiers says:

    sweet, now if only I had the cash 😦

  2. Brodie Rothschild says:

    That is good to hear. Any chance you could make those new sims only divisible down to 512m? They will be ruined and overun by ad lot sellers within a week. Or, any lot under 512m has no prim value, but if combined to make a 512m or larger their prim value is added in.
    Thank you

  3. U M says:

    omg i thought the world was ending it was bad.

  4. MN!!! says:

    Hmmm….there is still so much land for sale….and the servers are bad….and the lag is high…why are we introducing more land now? Fix what is current before you add on please.

  5. Sindy Tsure says:

    And you’re going to finish the old southern continent now, right?? Right???? 🙂

  6. LifeFactory Writer says:

    This is not the right place for this, but h*ll, I want to post this where it will be read.

    I love this platform; have advocated it everywhere I have gone. I have invested a great deal of time into learning the skills needed to create immersive film environments, and was making progress as time and resources allowed. I am very very tolerant of lag, etc, and have found performance very good over the last months. I am a huge fan. However….

    The PDSL–Police Department Second Life– needs to go. These people are hackers, harrassers and criminals.

    Beautiful land for sale in Claremorris. (Just to stay on topic)

    Best wishes,

  7. Argent Stonecutter says:

    I second the call to finish the southern continent.

  8. U M says:

    I say fix whatsbroken the move on. Tech is ony as good as the stabilty of the (caugh caugh ) platform) yea right you mean commerical driven add paying platform :/

  9. JS says:

    The ava price of land, the amount of land for sale and the amount of people selling land has not really changed since you stopped selling land according to the eccon stats. So, I guess my question for you Harmony, is why start releasing it again?

  10. kenny Stringer says:

    thank god !!!!

  11. I realize this is not your decision, but please enlighten us more Harmony. Tell us, exactly what percentage of all land is for sale and how much was abandoned last time?

    Lets cut the crap, shall we?

  12. Kerik Rau says:

    They have essentially the perfect business model.

    1) When a person owns land they pay tier
    2) If they abandon it they make money off the auctions
    3) Land is a severely limited resource in SL and as such people will always bid on the land.

    So either way LL makes money. The market can die and half the residents leave yet they will still have almost every parcel draining a resident monthly.

  13. Raymond Figtree says:

    Sloped granite or something a little more attractive?

  14. Hulaboom Voom says:

    I agree with the idea of not dividing below 512… what a mess all those little prospecting parcels are! Also: you folsk that are buying: can you please put in some hills??? the flat lands are so boring! how many beaches can anyne take!! long live geodiversity!!!

  15. Ellen Spark says:

    This seems to come just in time to add prolbems to the recent exodus in the past week of ppl abandoning their or putting it up for sale. It looks like Island owners will feel the pain or loss of more land and ppl leaveing. Events have recently taken a downturn, i think this is going to be a huge mistake, Island owners are covering the land fees for much unsold land. Lets watch and see what happens now.

  16. Bobo Decosta says:

    Why more land? I never had so much people asking me to buy their land in the past weeks? Oh I get it! More land means people will not be able to sell their land for a good price so maybe they will not sell it. Right?!

  17. Jackson says:

    I really wonder if you guys actually know anything about the inworld part of Second Life, stating the “True mainland average” as L$11 per meter makes one wonder how much time Lindens actually spend inworld rather than looking looking through the bubble that separates us. Fact is , Mianland is full of ghoast towns and adfarms, and your basic answer to that is to add more land… DO YOU SEE THE FLAW HERE or is it just me that doesnt understand?

    I say NO TO MORE LAND, today of all days when virtually everyone is having issues with Second Life you release this cherry bomb.. I really though you where shaping up, DON”T PROVE ME WRONG

  18. Jackson says:

    And another thing, estate land is nowhere near L$11 per meter, where are you getting this information? Cracker Jack? you refuse to stop the BS reserve price advertisement on the estate land sales search, no one can sell a plot for more than L$2 per meter, ESTATE OWNERS are heavily invested with you and you need to start taking care of them rather than doing us all a favor we dont need by releasing more mainland

  19. Ellen Spark says:

    A good place to look to see what is happening is to look at the map and see how much unsold land is being supported by Island Owners.
    Just look at all the yellow. There will be a real crisis soon.

  20. Praetor Janus says:

    Be forewarned, releasing more land NOW is a WRONG move.

    Keep aggressively recycling abandoned parcels but DON’T release new full SIMs until the Real World Economic crises passes!

    There’s not enough “demand” and prices will drop bellow “safe” level again.

    Have Premiums growed so much?

  21. Kat Alderson says:

    Glad to hear about the new regions! I love the mainland, and am excited about watching it grow. I only wish this had happened two weeks ago, before I started buying contiguous plots, trying to piece enough land together in an area that I like.

  22. Tristin Mikazuki says:

    I feel so sorry for the people trying to make money off buying ans selling land lol you guys are SO screwed LOL
    ok.. I dont feel THAT sorry lol
    I’ll sit back and watch everyone lose money.. and laugh 😉

  23. Ryanna Enfield says:

    This must be in response to all those threats to sell land LL received from people like myself who have had such horrid performance in SL that they can no longer justify paying land tier fees. Seems like a pretty mean thing to release new land when there are so many plots still for sale. Guess now I’ll have to keep my land and continue to pay tier fees while unable to actually stay logged into SL long enough to enjoy it. Gee thanks LL.

  24. Tristin Mikazuki says:

    Ryanna Enfield ya might just want to sell and take a small lose rather then pay and take a MUCH larger lose..
    btw posting this because it looks like my other post got the boot

  25. I don’t know what is the part that Linden Labs DO NOT UNDERSTAND, i have two private islands and i have to pay 590USD monthly because they are Class 5, …..which is the point to have class 5? , i mean many people sell class 4 saying its class 5, you Linden Labs have to put attention on this because i am paying and i have invested a lot of money, why dont you are more specific on “About Land” ?

    Try to show:

    1.- Class server
    2.- Mainland or private

    *** And the important thing… let us show our parcels on the website with your Auctions and Land sales

  26. Tegg B says:

    Hecman Larsen Says:
    “I don’t know what is the part that Linden Labs DO NOT UNDERSTAND, i have two private islands and i have to pay 590USD monthly because they are Class 5, …..which is the point to have class 5? , i mean many people sell class 4 saying its class 5, you Linden Labs have to put attention on this because i am paying and i have invested a lot of money, why dont you are more specific on “About Land” ?”

    Could be worse, some people are still only getting class 3 for their money.

  27. Seriously, at this point, I would love to see everyone who owns Mainland just drop out of SL and leave Linden Labs holding the bag – having to pay for hosting on all those servers. Of course they’re welcome to drain their bank accounts at $25 a month per acre to save the $500 they over-paid for it in the first place. 🙂

  28. Broccoli Curry says:

    I second the call to ‘finish the mainland’… there’s spaces for roads, railways, canals and all sorts of wonderful things but nobody at Linden Lab seems too bothered about finishing them … and there are handfuls of volunteers (myself included) offering our services free of charge to complete these… and our pleas fall on deaf ears.

    You do realise, of course, that if the existing land was more attractive, it would sell quicker? We all know that you have no intention of doing anything about ad farms and griefer builds, but why oh why won’t you take volunteers on to do simple things like use up land you’ve already set aside for integrated transport systems? You’ve used resident volunteers before (infohub project) for Linden Land, so you can’t convince me that it’s not possible – it just requires someone at Linden Lab to take responsibility for vetting a few volunteers and setting the land up so it can be done… then checking it has been done. Surely that’s not a difficult task, is it?

  29. caroline ra says:

    @ #26 You would almost think that LL were trying to drive estate owners out of the land market wouldnt you.

  30. Taff Nouvelle says:

    two words.
    Open Sim.

  31. Raven Primeau says:

    Cant build, cant TP without loosing everything up my A@se, cant even change my f@cking shoes ans you want me to even consider bying more land! Koff!

    I would so love to expand the amount of land I own, your tier system is so screwed I can’t afford 1 more mtr without doubling my tier payment and the platform is a stable as…..well LOL

    Ummmmmm…. what was that song by Bob Marley called again?????

    Ah I remember….EXODUS

  32. kenny Stringer says:

    i heard this i December !

  33. JSmith says:

    Why do we need more land if there are a lot of empty areas, ad farms, an NOBODY in the majority of the regions? Are you trying to create a big desert?

  34. Kat Klata says:

    This is a huge blow to SL economy. Those of us who have invested in private estates will be the one’s who feel the pinch…I predict many will abandon land because they can no longer afford outrages tier fees. Are you prepared for the consequences LL?

  35. Xplorer Cannoli says:


    1. Teleporting without being Logging out automatically
    2. Walking without flying into oblivion
    3. Clicking ABOUT LAND crashes you
    4. Land Sets Itself for sale after purchase!!!!!!!!!!! WHY IS THIS NOT FIXED?
    5. Region to Region walking w/o being logged out

    Difficult to carry out duties with all the above going on every other minute.

    Please fix these before diluting land values even further. Please.

  36. Praetor Janus says:


    We need GOOD Land!

    With roads, waterways and channels, bridges, railroads, etc.
    Without eternally abandoned parcels!
    Without so much LAG!


    We need GOOD SIMs!

    With Better textures and some Landscaping in mind, deserts, forests, mountains, ice and snow, beach’s and oceans with waves, natural grottos, and canyons, etc …

    Do Abandoned parcels/closed accounts pay tier?

    Why so many, supposedly repossessed land is not put to auction right away?

    2×30=60; 4×30=120 to whom? For God sake, TO WHOM?

    All the Best (to Us ALL)

  37. Linda Brynner says:

    Totally agree on parcles not smaller than 512 ! Great idea.
    Smaller parcels are being deployed as ad farms.
    It would be nice also if sims are released where the land exactly
    stops at protected linden ocean thank you.
    And… Yes… I was holding my breath, it was already time to start
    auctions again a few weeks ago. Thank you !
    As 90% of the land in sl is really crap, I now do hope that more
    nice land can come available… :))
    And… minimum 512 m2. Great idea !

  38. See? I can get past filters too. Sorry about that, but it really disturbs me when Linden uses some half baked excuse to remove a post with a valid point.

  39. Kat Klata says:

    RE #36…that WAS the plan before LL decided to throw a wrench into the works. Now it’s a matter of wait and see..I won’t invest in more islands if I can’t justify keeping the 2 I already have. My partner and I have spent 12-14 hours a day to develop our sims into a community we can take pride in with plans of expanding. Hoping this isn’t the beginning of the end for SL.

  40. Lets try this again…

  41. DreamsCatcher Colman says:

    SL quote “Your world your imagination”.
    Is this ironic or thruth??
    If this is LL/SL moto then please democracy shall begins.

    If LL team is not willing to hire economists and make it worth for everyone then please let who makes SL works to decide such things:
    – We residents –
    LL is the government of SL yes we so know, but we are responsible to keep this project alive and grows. We should have voice, vote, and decide then IF it fails : “OUR WORLD OUR IMAGINATION”, our fault and no further discussions like this.

    Start a system, open a portal where democracy and all resident voices will be heard. Is this an internal issue?? Need money to cover “holes” and empty slots in the servers? I am sure we can help in a way that the game economy would remain healthy. There’s no I on team!! We invest, we pay tier fees, we want better looking places and a system that works. Please get focused on make SL a lag free and stable world, let the economy for us to decide. That way in the end we will be all sure SL really is our “world and our imagination”, LL billionaires and WE all happy.


  42. Sorry Dreams, but I disagree. The average person has no idea how to run an economy and would make the same poor choices. That fact is clearly evident in the sales of mainland sims past the point of saturation of the market. People didn’t learn from the dot com boom, or the recent real estate boom, or variable rate mortgages.

    What really burns me is that numbers are being manipulated in order to support failure of the system. This is simple supply and demand on a sub-sim-sales level. It will eventually work itself out, but i fear it will do so by causing the demise of what started as a ballanced, viiable platform for virtual world commerce.

  43. This is akin to the banks issuing credit cards in the US. They will lend money to anyone, unsecured. When you default, the federal reserve bank covers it, its written off as a bad debt, and on tax forms. The companies are collecting the debt anyway, just not from the accountable party, so they continue to profit from it.

    This is clearly unethical and irresponsible behavior on the part of Linden Labs and land flippers who don’t even have the sense to collect tier after resale. But what comes around, goes around and the door will definately hit them in them all in the a$$ on the way out.

  44. There’s a sucker born every minute; P.T. Barnum proved that… but Rome fell in a day.

  45. DreamsCatcher Colman says:

    That is my point mate, “The average person has no idea how to run an economy ” I am not talking about average I meant majority and a system which means it can be devided by classes and divisions in a demacratic way i.e. Not just because I want I will become a Real Estate business man. I could buy 10 Islands and split all my land, give it FOR FREE, and charge tier average of 20% income over LL 295 mo prince. Shit money? yes but still having income, times 10..oh well but still USD 590 in my pocket every month. then i say:
    Is it fair for the competitors?? NO.
    Is it fair for the buyers? NO ( land price will drop and wont be investments anymore)

    That is when i meant we need a system. Real Estate business ppl have to have a chamber, vote, make decisions decide min and max rate on land price and fair not just for my pocket or yours. for all of us by making LL happy and buying more and more land from them, and selling it more here coz it woul dbe worth and the system makes it worth for everyone.

    It has to be good for all.

  46. Lets try re-posting in parts this time!


    Lets take a look at some realistic figures, shall we?

    1. Someone with no business sense -or calculator evidently- pays $3000 at an auction for a blade server, which is nothing but a monther board, CPU, and RAM, in a rack-mount case, from a company ordering 500 per week instead of buying a prive island for the already exhorbitant price of $1650. At retail I could build one for $400 or less.

  47. 2. They divide the land in to… lets say 4096 lots, which they now have $187.25 invested in for each lot, so they price them at double that ($374.50) and hope people buy them all before they have to start throwing away $200 a month on them. Meanwhile, Linden Labs is selling 500 of these a week, like they did last winter, sping, and summer. So, they don’t sell and they start paying the $200 a month all summer, while the auctions continue.

  48. 3. Some guy comes along and pays the $374.50 to get one of the only 4 beach lots, thinking he’s going to sail all over the mainland in all the lovely water – which I might add is also for sale with NO COVENANT!

    *Note: The mainland not having a covenant is important, because Captain Dingleberry – who just ridiculously over-paid for his dream home- wants to do whatever he wants without being controled by faciests. Well, guess what Capt. Dingleberry; You can do anything you want there, and so can your neighbor. So, when you end up with a 40 ft rotating p3n1s in your front yard, (yes, FRONT yard, because the water in front of your lovely new beach home with no covenant is also for sale!) don’t come here posting about the woes of ad farms.

  49. 4. Now Capt. Dingleberry is upset and so is our genius land flipper, Suzie Homemaker -who watches HGTV too much- are both sadly deprived and disappointed with their money pits, so Suzie raises prices because she’s been paying tier on 3/4 of a sim all sping, summer, and fall.

  50. 5. Meanwhile, The Sub Mariner -who has decided to put up the Hall of Justice League HQ, right in front of Capt. Syupid’s house -I mean Dingleberry- is tired of people he griefs tracking him down, so he puts up red tape that Capt. Dingleberry can’t sail through; not to mention the big ugly Hall of Justice blocking everything anyway.

  51. 7. Suzie Homemaker is tired of throwing money away, not seeing sales, and is now worried her husband will see the bill, look in to this SL thing, and catch her cheating on him while she denies its even infidelity, yet still won’t tell him she was naked with fresh batteries on a web cam last night with the Captain, so, she abandons her remaining land, which Linden Labs resells for $2.1L per sqm, after already collecting a profit of more than $2500 USD on the same land, not to mention the $100 a month from tier fees that they pocket.

  52. WOOPS! MISSED 6! Here:

    6. Captain Dingleberry says something to the Sub Mariner, who gets mad and rezzzes a 40 ft rotating pen1s in the Capt’s house, so the Capt’ puts up his red tape. Everyone is complaining and LL’s comes along and turns off all scripts in all coastal waters. Now Cappy can’t even control his boat.

  53. 8. Lag and teleports are horrendous, thanks to a saturated network, even at half user capacity -that Suzie is paying $200 a month for- and a super cool new asset server that has just been resurected slightly beyond death by a benevolant Linden Labs after a year of spoiled fun in SL for all users.

  54. My first thought on finding out about this new land release was, “The SL economy is just now stabilizing, why would you make the same mistake twice?”

    And I still think that. Are you really trying to make land more affordable, or are you trying to make sure the SL market economy keeps having problems and set backs?

    RELEASING 4 SIMS PERDAY is a good way to sink a lot of new businesses and even torpedo a few of the older businesses, and I’m not even talking about land management groups. Those unfortunate guys bought your sims, pay your tier, and offer a good service to SL players through rentals and sales for the most part. Why not let the economy grow a little bit more, and respond with a little less New Land?

    Guys it’s getting really discouraging to have these ups and downs. Keep building the economy, and the player experience will improve too.

  55. Capt. Dingleberry is throwing away $25 a month he could have used for a Bow Flex so his wife would sleep with him again, instead of Suzie Homemaker. But, Dingleberry still comes here and complains he wants rules on land he bought because it had no rules. Good goin Cappy!

    Honestly, I think the guy who analized the economy and decided to resume auctions, should get together with Suzie and the Captain and form one complete m0r0n. Chances for survival would greatly improve.

    Suzie… Capt’, save your money to have your head extracted from your r3ctum. On the other hand, maybe if you keep making foolish decisions, whom ever is responsible for this at Linden Labs might be able to afford the same procedure!

  56. Now if i didn’t have to pay this VAT ….

    Yes, i’m a realtor, and cannot buy an sim from auctions because of the VAT, if i do, i’ll have way higher buy-in price, and won’t be competitive.

  57. Tyrian, although I am sympathetic to your dilema; write to your government, Linden Labs has nothing to do with laws in your country.

  58. mac says:

    @58 slippery , tyrian is voiceing a comment and same as you said instead of takeing 19 entry spaces and ranting do something about it if you don`t like it leave, you have choices too. but you won`t you`ll just rant in a vain effort that will get you nothing. if you don`t like what LL is doing put ya money were your mouth is and pull out.. i did it myself sold all land and dropped back to basic account without the rants , i just enjoy the game now ohh and also enjoy reading the rants

  59. Raymond Figtree says:

    How about fixing the forums so that buyers can see the listings of those trying to sell land? 503 errors are still there, worse than ever.

  60. Captain Noarlunga says:

    Thanks Slippery…..I feel so much better knowing you have relieved the pressure on your brain.

    Captain….aka Cappy ………….. but I wont sue for defamation 🙂

  61. Clanman Burns says:

    Another voice in support of the no less than 512 movement. It’s just plain common sense to have a minimum size.

  62. Mac, I’m doing fine. I have no intention of pulling out at this time, I said it will happen though and I am certainly not the only one, if you would read. Also, He’s complaining off topic. Please explain to me how the VAT has anything to do with this, and while you’re at it, please also quote me so I can see where I mentioned that. I would also like to know exactly how many sims I have liquidated in the past year, since you obviously know metter than my accountant?

    If you enjoy the rants, why are you tolling me?

    Maybe you should think before you open your mouth instead of wrrying about mine.

  63. Captain, I had to laugh at that post. I do have a good sense of humor, but this is a serious issue too and I made a valid point without having any pressur eon my brain. I enjoy hyperbole and I find it effective. I would, on the other hand, love to hear of a lawyer who would take that case. I didn’t even know Cappy had fame to be defamed. it is de-fame-ation. lol

  64. Clannman, its no-covenant land. If you don’t like it, why did you buy it? See my above posts, where I covered all these topics.

  65. Oh and MAC, I posted that as one entry originally but it kept getting filtered and flagged, so I had to split it. But again, if you read you would know that too. What I did for Tyrian was direct him to the proper channels. You complained about that, then told me I will complain without results. Save the emotional outbursts for your unfortunate family and stick to comments that make sense.

  66. WTH part of, “There are no rules on the Mainland” did you knuckle nuts not understand?

  67. mac says:

    @66 slippery “Save the emotional outbursts for your unfortunate family and stick to comments that make sense.” bit touchy there fella calm down count to 10 ok 5 might be easier for you, no emotion as i would`nt waste that on you, but maybe you should do something and opt out instead of ranting and moaning as YOU will not change a thing and yes i am sure tyrian is well aware that each country has a set of rules for it`s people he is voiceing a comment the same as you and i was directing you to put up or maybe opt out. or maybe your voice is more important than others as you seem to be filling this up rather rapid anyway you can throw your petty insults as rest assured they do fly over. 🙂 oooh and remember 1 to 5 slow, and just to help remember the 2-3-4 in between but i`m sure you`v watched sesame street 😉

  68. mac says:

    ooh and slippery it isn`t off topic to him he is talking about buying land and the tax that would make it harder so the only real topic here then is that land auction is back full stop .. anyway enjoy sl

  69. Morden Winkler says:

    OK, I would like to add my voice to the call for 512 plots NOT to be further sub-divideable into ad farms. Philip Linden going on about “market forces” taking care of the ad-farm problem… yeah well how about people leaving SL in droves to go to other opensim projects, how about that for a “market force”?

    Frankly I’d like to see Linden Labs make a decision about ad-farms that isn’t forced upon them by a current or pending FBI investigation or a lawsuit. Do somethin gproactive for once.

    And FOCUS ON FIXING THE CURRENT PROBLEMS. An alternative Web browser, no longer being updated, gave the option of visible muting (blinding?) of things like ad-farms. WHY IS THIS BASIC FUNCTIONALITY not included yet??

    You take a good long look at OpenlifeSim and realize that they are, at some point in the future, releasing sims at a much lower cost than you are charging. Sometime within the next year, you are going to start losing your users in droves as they decamp to OpenlifeGrid or some other competitor who has the sense to LISTEN to its users.

  70. Praetor Janus says:

    Guys, this is the place (read opportunity) to let the Lindens know our points of view. This is the best we have as “Democracy”, for G sake LL is a company!

    I respectfully ask you to check your egos before entering, I’m deeply worried with this “move”, but I don’t believe in “bonking heads” as a way of making my point 🙂

    I, DO, believe this is a bad move for LL and mostly for SL but the people in the other side of the line deserve my utmost respect for the “invisible” work they do daily.

    LL, or someone responsible (who knows the pressures …) is making a mistake, it’s our responsibility to – explain, give points, argument, in the end … HELP, not slammer.

    Please, let your conscience speak, you will see that I have, some, reason. Be constructive 🙂

    All the Best

  71. Aminom Marvin says:

    I am surprised at the comments in this blog entry. Anyone could have seen this coming; I myself am surprised they didn’t do this two weeks ago.

    More land is GOOD for the economy. Land prices go down, making the entry point for having your own parcel lower, so that more people can enjoy this part of the SL experience. Except the parcel-flipping land barons, who are merely middlemen who contribute ABSOLUTE NOTHING to SL. The only business model that makes any sense is to actually add value to the mainland parcels you sell and to sell them in a responsible way, or offering value-added private estates.

  72. Praetor Janus says:

    I’m in Europe; it’s late, the TV is playing behind me, an Economic spot just bursted, the FED dropped the discount rate, again!

    LL, please, understand, SL is in this world! We all, pay taxes, hope for raises or increased turnover. We all suffer, our globalized economy, pains.

    Go smoothly, Go secure, as I once said in this forum; For G sake don’t kill “The Golden Eggs Goose” 🙂

  73. MAC, this is the topic heading. Full Region Auctions Are Back!

    When the hell are you going to learn to read and stop sticking your foot in your mouth?

  74. Praetor,

    Nice try there and very diplomatic, but I pay Linden Labs.

    When you buy a computer to run SL on and find out it has 2 year old parts with an onboard video chip, instead of a card, and it wont run SL, do you see that as an “oportunity to let them see your point of view”?

    You know what I do? I demand that incompetant ass be fired and I demand the deal be made good on, or I persue other aveneus.

    Linden Labs has done a lot of good, and I believe I mentioned that, however thsi iresponsible move is not one of them. They have recieved enough bad press from numerous media sources in the recent past and if this continues, they will recieve more. In fact, I would be happy to add to it if I start to actually sufffer a loss with no recompence.

    I don’t mince words, I shoot stright and get to the point.

  75. Way to abuse the system, Slippery. How about you show a little restraint and not eat up all the comment slots with your egomaniacal ranting? I’m just as angry about performance as anyone, but I’m not going to deny 20 people a chance to air their grievances so I can see my name and words in print over and over again.

    More than anything, performance is the biggest impediment to SL’s growth as a platform. We’ve heard Philip acknowledge it, we see it coming with Havok 4 and Mono, but the basic stuff that people use the most – IMs, inventory, or just the website – are riddled with problems. There is little incentive to invest any more money into land if these things aren’t running smoothly. The 503 errors on the 2D web is an embarrassment. You can’t use the argument “oh it’s so many people rendering all this info at once.”

    Anyway, a little bit of land won’t damage the economy much but if it’s all granite, I wouldn’t expect too many end users to bite. Granite is going for ridiculous prices as is right now, and more isn’t going to help.

  76. I happen to be making a point for everyone who has the same grievance. Cristalle, and if people like you would just afree instead of acting liek an ass to people like me, I wouldn’t have to take up space defending my actions.

    I’m running Havok 4, btw. Are you? When did I mention performance anyway? I see we have another one who doesn’t read and just spouts off at the wrong party. You got your 2 cents in and I see it wasn’t even worth that.

  77. I made my OWN point, Slippery, about trepidation to put any money into land because of the performance issues, although I do acknowledge the work being done with Havok and Mono. That’s the salient part to LL that I wanted to say and am apparently very lucky to have had space to do so. As for the acting like an ass part, you’ve got that down pat. Get over yourself.

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  79. Raymond Figtree says:

    So you said they were coming this morning. Nothing came. Care to explain why, Harmony?

  80. Alisha says:

    “I don’t mince words, I shoot stright and get to the point.”…..

    23 posts later…..

    The restart of land auctions is a good thing, But…Harmony, This should be monitored very closely. Get that act down, you can use new region auctions to help stabilize land value. 🙂

    Lets face facts though. You couldn’t pay me to set up shop in an old mainland region. Without some restraints on minimum plot sizes and some Linden interaction (New roads, walkways, gosh anything of interest), the rest of the new continents will soon look the same. :/

    Well…time will tell


  81. Yes and clean up this blog mess while youre on it too, harmony

  82. Donald Frump says:

    @71 Aminom Marvin Says:

    “The only business model that makes any sense is to actually add value to the mainland parcels you sell…”

    Yes, that is how RL works, you buy land, you develop it and put permanent improvements on it, like a house, apartments or offices. You sell it and those structures stay. The next owner may do some minor renovation or updating, but the purchase was for the land and its improvements. Tearing down and rebuilding the existing structures is very costly and only justified if the economic model for the new use supports it.

    In SL, whatever you put on the land is not a permanent improvement. The purchaser, even if you sell the buildings with the land, buys it for their own purpose, deletes all the objects on the land and rezzes a new structure in a matter of seconds. Presto, the old is out and the new is in. All the work of the previous owner in building and landscaping is of no value whatsoever because the cost of removing it is $0. Even the previous owner’s terraforming is removed with just a couple mouse clicks.

  83. Raymond Figtree says:

    Is anyone else getting this message when they try to go to the US$ page on the land auction: Microsoft VBScript runtime error ‘800a01ce’

    The remote server machine does not exist or is unavailable: ‘oPSDict.Item’

    /includes/CommonVB.asp, line 560

  84. Raven Primeau says:

    Land tier<<< revise it, sort it without doubling the cost to buy 1M if extra land ppl like me may be tempted to buy more and not just frstratedly give up SL because of the awfully bad performance and bull we put up with.

    It is only the wonderful ppl I know here and love that keeps me in this ship full of holes. Once opensim or similar comes on line.

    Many of us will be in the line to board the ark to sail across I am sure if LL doesnt listen to its *paying* residents *paying meaning actually spending here, suppoting the economy as best we can when the grid is working well enough to make purchasing a safe option which lately has been very seldom.

    P’d off but in love

  85. Luna Sobocinski says:

    So when is this actually going to happen? Hmmm?

    OK, might as well spend this time making a few points. It is clear that since LL has stopped selling regions the price of land has shot up. It used to be that I could buy a region at auction and then sell off the land at about 7.5 per square meter and make a profit. The crap land bordering ad farms would be going for about 6 per square meter. Now the crap land goes for 8.5, and the price for a decent plot of land is about 10. Now, as anyone who has taken basic economics should know, when the equilibrium price is higher, quantity demanded will be lower. In translation, if you own a parcel of land that you used for some project, and now want to sell it, you are more likely to have to sell it at the price that the crap land is going for rather than a decent price. This is because the way tier works, you have a deadline to sell it or you have to pay for a whole additional month. The cost for the extra month is likely to be higher than the difference between the “instant sell” price and the equilibrium price for a decently situated parcel. For example, if you own more than 4096 square meters, it will cost you an extra US$40 to hold on to that land, but lowering the price by 2.5 per square meter will only cost you about $37.

    As for the flippers, well, I am one so I’ll give you my point of view weather you like it or not. Flippers do not make the price of land go higher! This is basic economics people! What flippers do for the economy is pay the tier. We all own at least a region worth, so our tier costs per square meter are lower than someone who just has a small parcel for a temporary project. When Joe Project want’s to sell his parcel, he will be motivated (as explained above) to sell before he will have to pay for a whole extra month of tier. That’s where Jane Flipper comes in. she has a lower cost for tier (because she is paying for more of it) and can keep it utilized. This is not to say that she can just price it however she wants, the price that they she can get will be determined by the market. You might say, “Why doesn’t Joe Project just sell his land to Bob Project instead of Jane Fipper?” Well, that’s all great if Joe can find Bob before his tier date. This is the service that Jane provides, she holds the land (and pays the tier) until some Bob comes along and buys it.

    When I sell a parcel, it always comes with a full permission house and landscaping. The buyer of course has the option to keep that or not, about maybe about 1/3 of them keep the house on the land. The others have other uses intended for the land. If you are thinking you want to get into this business, you better have a good idea of what you are doing, because I’ll tell you right now, you can’t just buy land and jack up the price and expect to magically make a profit. In closing, you have to know what you are doing, you have to have an understanding of the market.

  86. Raymond Figtree says:

    Hilarious…they have four full sims on the auction page inworld but I can’t reach the $US page to bid on them. Nice going as usual, LL.

  87. Raven Primeau says:

    Slaps myself about he head after reading back what I wrote, hoping it made more sense to others than it does to me reading it bak 😦

  88. mystic berry says:

    why why why??/ why is LL constanly holding back members to log on with a message–your account is not aviAble till Central time??? yadayada yada

  89. Luna,

    When I mentioned land flippers, I was talking specifically about people who buy an entire sim at acution for $3000, then parcel it out for turn over. You said exactly what I did when you spit out that tier explanation, only you’re buying from Joe Project, Not Joe Linden.

    So, according to your figures, you come along and buy land from Joe Project for $37 less than what he would sell for and you get him to sell at the discounted price to save him the extra 3 dollars he would have spent by paying his $40.

    Okay, not you have land you purchased for less and you’re going to pay the reduced tier until it sells, so you can turn a profit. The lowest tier price is for one entire sim, so lets assume you own that and are paying that tier. That’s $195/8, since he was paying $40 we know he owned 1/8 of a sim. Now you imediately owe your $24.75 fee on land you purchased for $3 less than what he was selling for, and you are going to pay this $24.75 fee until its sold, yet you’re already in the whole $21.75 and the land price does not increase by you doing this. In addition to this service, you advertise, work to sell, and improve the land with full perm houses.

    What a magical plan! I think you were right when you said you better know what you’re doing before you do it.

  90. Sorry, I made a few typo’s and I forgot to ask how this doesn’t increase the price of land. (“not should have read “now”, and its “in the hole”, not “whole” for people who will have nothing else to pick on my post about)

  91. I should also mention for LL’s sake that if these auctions are abandoned land, due to the VAT, or poor business models, that makes more sense than building new servers. However, if the land was abandoned and not selling already, then the supply grossly out weighs demand, which is exactly what we’re seeing in-world.

    So now LL’s has recycled servers which they profited enough from to pay the hosting for anotehr 5 years. (Sarcasm or fact? I’m not crunching those numbers hypothetically to find out.) LL’s is selling refuse to people who will lower the price of land, using Luna’s magic formula instead of increasing as we witnessed before and as cited as the very reason for the reissuance by LL’s in this very post due to price reduction in evident in their metrics.

    This is often refered to as throwing good money after bad, since LL’s can not abandone land in-world if even one 16 sqm parcel is owned. They are stuck paying hosting and its going to catch up to them. Anyone buying these is making the same mistake as the last guy, only now they have 5 new servers, all in the same area, all for sale, to compete with to keep from paying the tier of $195 a month, which Luna again claims does not raise the price of land if she pays it.

    Meanwhile, I will sit happily on my private island, with my happy residents -50% of whom have resided there since 2006, wait my turn to start expansion again as I watch yet anotehr shake-out, and laugh. Sure, I could turn a quick profit and double my money in a month too, with high risk, but I have other methods with less risk and longer term returns.

    Luna, I do appreciate your post, I really truely do, and your main point was a good one. I’d still fire you because fo your numbers, but it was a good point.

    LL’s… you’re just fired.

    Be careful out there people, its dog-eat-dog and there is always a bigger dog than you watching. 😉

  92. mac says:

    blah blah 28 posts later

  93. Melanie Milland says:

    I can’t understand, after watching it for over 1 year, why LL doesn’t want to understand:

    The “natural”, or equilibrium price, of land is L$10

    If it is cheaper, you have a glut, and not only flippers lose money. If it is more expensive, no one buys.

    Glutting the market to get land to L$5 is not helping anyone. All that will do is to make adfarming so much more lucrative, since adfarms are not oriented on real value, but on extortion. You pay them for the land so you can send back the adcubes!

    The lower the price of land, the more adfarms will be cut. The less attractive it becomes to buy land.

    Just let the land price settle at L$10 or thereabouts, and keep it there, but don’t throw out any more land!

  94. Luna Sobocinski says:

    OK, so they put up a couple of regions, rocky land all up in the clouds. Yuk.

    Slippery, I did buy regions from LL at auction, but not for 3000, anyone who paid that much paid way too much for their region.

    A land merchant obviously shouldn’t plan on keeping a particular parcel for a whole month. That isn’t my business plan. Anyone should be able to see from your numbers what the result of that would be. In case I have to spell it out for you, if you start a month with one region, sell some portion of it on the first day of the month, and then buy that same amount of land from some seller, you are not taking on any additional tier. Then the next day, you will probably sell a similar portion of your holdings, and buy some more land. You can buy and sell several regions worth of land over the course of a month and still pay just $195 for the month.

    But it is a lot of work. People expect to get into this business and not have to do any work, and wind up losing a bunch of money.

  95. Luna & Melanie,

    Luna, I don’t personally like your business plan, but it works for you. What I would be careful of is posting your methods in public. If they can’t figure it out themselves, you end up with a situation like when Rockafeller walked in to a meeting and -to the surprise of everyone in attendance- exclaimed he was pulling all assets out of the market. When asked why he stated he had gotten a shoe shine on the way in and the shoe shine boy asked for a stock tip. When shoe shine boys start asking for stock tips, its time to pull out, and he was right; it was an over exhuberant market. That was just before Black Monday whih started the depreassion of the 1930’s in the US. The smart money got out and took Shoeshine boy’s money back in to hands that could manage it properly.

    You stated a fair price for land in your first post Luna, however Melanie and LL’s claim differently, so lets challange that:

    First of all auctions are sucker bait designed to incite bidding wars and drive up prices. We know that LL’s offers private sims for $1675 USD, and we know that the exchange rate is somewhere around $266L per 1 USD. We also know what a sim contain 65,536 sqm. So (1675/266) / 65,536 = 6.7. $6.7 psqm is the intrinsic value of the land, as set by LL’s. Anything more is at a premium.

    Buy at auction, you’re paying more than the intrinsic value, live on the mainland and you’re living in anarchy with no planning, zoning, agreements, or arbitrator. Buy on private estates, you have protection and premium, zoned land. Personally, I could care less where the masses live; its what slums are for, but when it starts to halt a perfectly good economy and LL’s makes the same mistake again, by allowing people to bakrupt themselves, it puts pressure on everyone and gives SL a bad name.

    To the only two dolts who disagreed with me on these posts; you can disagree all you want, but you have no argument to present and facts do not change. Numbers do not lie. That only happens in your little tiny world.

  96. I gave everyone here enough information not to be taken to the cleaners; what you do with that information is entirely up to you.

    The reason I did this is because this situation is affecting my SL experience by hampering it, not by causing me losses. I feel it was fouled up in the begining by LL’s who is now scrambling to recycle the sims they let loose the first time with total disregard for controlled expansion. Now they’re doing it again.

    We have been victims of these atrocities and artificially inflated metrics due to multiple accounts being allowed without limits and nothing more than a simple question standing between you and 100 alts. “Is this your first character on SL?”, “NO” Bingo, new account! As I told Jack Linden, the only numbers that count are the amount of players online, which could still be cut in half thanks to God knows how many people are running 20 campers from their servers at work in network positions or offices, people running 5 on one Mac, or a few more on IBM’s in a home network. Every camper you see is a phony number in the metrics and a lie. That is nothing less than falsified information and I personally can not see a jury in any court, nor judge, who would disagree, regardless of the defense. I would add to that that due to the nature of LL’s business, laws could be easily changed to cause SL to be considered a publically held corporation, since its is the users sinking money in to it and holding interest in the form of land purchases and goods, or created objects.

    Careful not to tick me off too much, I might squash you like a bug. That is not arrogance, its fact.

  97. Luna Sobocinski says:

    Slippery, the reason why mainland sells for more than island land is that it costs US$100 less per month to own a mainland sim. And, if you own the whole sim, you don’t have to worry as much about the neighbors. Obviously, you favor island living, which should be no surprise as that is the business you are in. It has it’s advantages, but so does mainland.

    I’m not worried about the information that I revealed here being public, obviously there are other details that I have left out about my specific business plan. What I have revealed is pretty much what someone with average intelligence should be able to figure out from the available documentation.

  98. Ellen Spark says:

    There would be very few issues here if the concept of Fairness was addressed. The fact that mainland land fees and 199 usd a month private islands have not had an increase shows the unfairness. Monthly land fees for private islands were increased over 50 % per month 295 usd for a full region with the promise that ones that were paying 199 usd per month would be raised at a later date, that would insure fairness, but it never happened. Why ? My opinion is that Linden Labs feels a 50 % increase is now too much of an increase to give to residents. hmm…. So now we have a major issue of unfairness. I am not asking to see the rest of the land fees raised 50 % but there should be some increase to close the huge gap between the difference in land fees. When I bought my Islands I presumed out of fairness there would be some increase of land fees to those who have not been given an increase. When will they get an increase ? Lets be fair, close the huge gap some, its totally unfair.

  99. Ellen Spark says:

    We would love to know what the Private Estate average is, because we have to sell below your average because of the high land fees you charge us. Do we count in the numbers too ?

  100. Luna,

    I’m fully aware of the fees for both areas, but I’m talking about selling off mainland sims in pacels and the buyers paying Linden Labs the tier fees, not the sim owner. So how is that an advantage to the sucker who tries to buy a lot, or flip it, when the one flipping it is paying more than the intrinsic value at auction and doing nothign but raising the price for the buyer, who comes back here and complains about ad farms becaus ehe doesn’t own the entire sim?

    If I did this to make money I would be flipping mainland to suckers. I stated all the advantages of private islands, but thats also not the point. The mainland is probably an advantage if you want to put up a nude bar, other than that, good luck. If I missed one, please tell me.

    The point on the other hand, is that Linden Labs either tried to recycle already sold and abandoned servers due to the VAT, or something else, artificially inflated the price of them at auction, or worse yet, added new servers to the network and in the process crashed the economy of SL, aside from the people who profited by taking part in that travesty.

    Another crock of steaming discharge is that rumor floating around that private land owners are scewing people out of land, which Linden Labs used as a ploy to drive the lion’s share of the new market back to them. What actually started that was an instance where Azure Islands rented entire sims, someone came along, paid one month tier, sold the land to someone who didn’t check to see owned it, then left with a few thousand profit. Azure Islands made good on the deal, taking responsibility for their lack of forsight, and allowed the residents to stay. Before the situation was resolved, word got out and started a wild fire in the old rumor mill, which is still circulating today. The ones perpetuating it are Linden Labs and probably some wirthless saps who tried to screw their sim owners out of tier payments and got kicked.

    No offense meant, but if you’re going to address my posts, please adress my posts, not something that has nothing to do with them.

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