Second Life Havok4 Beta Server Preview refreshed to v77587 with 13 fixes (2008-01-17)

The Beta Preview has been refreshed with another set of fixes, detailed below. The Havok4 project team is working to replace the physics engine in Second Life with a new version. This build resolves a number of avatar and vehicle behaviors, as well as some performance adjustments.

The Havok4 Beta Server regions on the Beta Preview have been updated to v1.18.6.77587

The Havok1 reference regions have been updated to v1.18.6.76747 (same version as on the main Second Life system)

More Havok4 project information, including new linkability rules and a listing of regions currently enabled on the Havok4 Beta Preview, is posted here:

We are holding regular office hours to review your experiences with the Havok4 Beta Preview. Our office hours are posted here: (Please note the new location!)

Details of the issues resolved in this refresh:

Note: Issues beginning with “DEV-” were internally identified issues, whereas issues beginning with “SVC-” were logged on the public issue tracker.

SVC-1089: Avatar inertia no longer ends abruptly while jumping
SVC-1191: Avatar alignment now corrected with “hugger” attachments
DEV-5210: Kart now drives the same after Havok4 to Havok1 region transition
DEV-5279: C-Tech F2050 Hover Ship no longer goes out of control crossing from Havok4 to Havok1 regions
DEV-5674: Kart rotation rate is now correct
DEV-6996: Camera oscillations removed
DEV-7968: Mouselook steering for vehicles is now working
DEV-8402: Avatar no longer slides after user stops walking
DEV-8436: RCCS adjusted to handle high physics load better
DEV-8465: Avatar mass now matches Havok1
DEV-8578: Dragging physical objects no longer causes avatar and physical objects to fall through platform
DEV-8692: Volume_Detect is only set if phantom is also set
DEV-8875: Objects with reduced level of detail are now restored correctly

Best regards,

Sidewinder Linden
Havok4 Program Manager

P.S. Please keep your comments on-topic.

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18 Responses to Second Life Havok4 Beta Server Preview refreshed to v77587 with 13 fixes (2008-01-17)

  1. Digital Digital says:

    Awesome I look forward to testing this out 😉

  2. Phil Priestman says:

    Sounds great, is there any eta to port it over to the main grid?

    I know, I know… “When its done!” 🙂

  3. Ann Otoole says:

    i’m hearing people say some sims on main grid are coming up with havoc 4. hope this is incorrect or that its all perfect.

  4. Ric Mollor says:

    I didn’t see an official response to this question when asked before so here it is again

    Havok 4, Avatar prim limits, and denial of service attacks.

    Will Havok 4 change attachment prim limits in any way? I’ve recently observed what appear to be a form of denial of service attack in popular places.

    It appears that a group of zombie avatars are brought into a region for the purpose of using up the available prims allocated for avatars. The avatars have a huge number of transparent attachments that are not visible but seem to stress the simulator anyhow.

    In my understanding

    30.500 prims per sim
    15,000 for ‘objects’
    500 temp on rez
    15,000 prims reserved for attachments
    31 attachment points per avatar
    ~250 prim limit per attachment.

    If this is correct 2 fully laden avatars can max out the sim.

    Does Havok 4 address this or is it a non-issue?

  5. Drew Dwi says:

    DEV-7968: Mouselook steering for vehicles is now working

    needs to be re-opened, mouse look steering is almost completely uncontrollable and functions nothing like havok1 😦

    I guess this is better than nothing though like before though 🙂

    feel free to contact me to get planes to test with.

  6. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @3 Ann:
    >i’m hearing people say some sims on main grid are coming up with >havoc 4. hope this is incorrect or that its all perfect.

    A small number of regions, opted in by the estate owners, are involved in early testing with Havok4. Some eatate owners who want to participate in running beta versions of the Second Life simulator have been running the Havok4 server build for a few weeks now, and we have been running it on Linden internal regions for over a month.


  7. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @4 Ric; I will double-check tomorrow, but as far as I recall we have done no changes to avatar prim limits with Havok4.


  8. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @5 Drew: Please file a new jira with the specifics and vendor/model of vehicle that is not working, so that we can look at that one. If you have a sample, please feel free to drop me a copy (Sidewinder Linden) in-world. Thanks! /Sidewinder

  9. Kelly Linden says:

    4) There is a max of 15,000 prims per region. There are no limits that I know of for attachments and they don’t count towards the max prims per sim. If that has changed at all then it was not changed in the havok4 branch. If you find there to be some other limit please file a jira bug.

  10. Pingback: The Grid Live » Second Life News for January 18, 2008

  11. Tegg B says:

    Ann Otoole Says: i’m hearing people say some sims on main grid are coming up with havoc 4. hope this is incorrect or that its all perfect.

    You need to read the news about 4 weeks ago.

  12. Hiro says:

    If I say I want to participate in the preview and want to let my SIM run Havok 4, will that happen? Where can I propose for that, using ticket?

  13. Keiko Rau says:

    DEV-8692: Volume_Detect is only set if phantom is also set

    Forgive me if ive read this wrong, as Im not a H4 tester and havnt been on the beta grid in months, but as a scripter, the above struck me as odd.

    Im not sure if it refers to script related functionality, but if it does… my understanding as of H1 is that llVolumeDetect is not dependant on Phantom, but that it actually SETS phantom. Indeed, the page for llVolumeDetect() says…

    “The object can NOT be set to phantom by any other means, or else llVolumeDetect will not work. llVolumeDetect will set phantom automatically.”

    So perhaps ive read it wrong, or something.

  14. Tryptofaa Sands says:

    Are the new link limits being calculated correctly for larger (giant) prims? If so, I have a problem, and I’m sure I won’t be the only one! I have a tornado that uses a 40x40x40 sculpted prim and when I summon it on the havok4 servers it just falls apart! It would seem I’m going to have to reduce it’s height substantially if things stay as they are 😦 Also, it would seem that linking two 40x40x40’s together, even if they are right on top of each other, is no longer possible. How can the pieces be too far apart when they are right on top of each other!? I urge a Linden to please take a look at this. The best example I can give of the creations SL will be denied if this is not fixed is to search TryptofaaSands on youtube and look at my latest video. I have been told by many it is the most realistic weather effect they have ever seen in SL, and by some, the best thing they have seen in SL altogether!! If things carry on as they are it will simply fall apart. I am willing to help in any way, so please contact me if you’d like to see it fall apart for yourself.

  15. Aldo Zond says:

    “….. There is a max of 15,000 prims per region. There are no limits that I know of for attachments and they don’t count towards the max prims per sim…..”

    Why dont attached prims count against the max prims per sim count?

    Dont get me wrong its great they dont, but surely the sim is having to do all the position/rotation/flexi type calculations for them all?

  16. Kelly Linden says:

    Keiko: That issue is poorly named, or maybe incompletely named. There was a bug that caused some specific content to be phantom when it shouldn’t have been when loaded from a simstate. This had to do with how in H1 the object was saved with an inconsistent phantom/llvolume detect state and in H4 we weren’t using the right order of precedence when loading it. However, volume detect and phantom are some tricky bits of logic please do test and let us know if you find any more oddities compared to H1.

    Tryptofaa: The new link limits operate on the total span rather than distance from center to center. Span is the distance from the outside edge of one bounding sphere to the furthest outside edge of the other. The bounding sphere in this case is determined solely by the scale property of the object, and it’s position. A 40x40x40 prim will have a bounding sphere with diameter 69m, a radius of 34.6m. The max link span is 54m – so yes, a 40 x40m x40m object will not be able to link with anything. I’ll talk with some others about this because I’m not sure what the right solution is in this case.

    Aldo: While the sim is still calculating them we make some concessions against the limit to offer a smoother and more stable system. The experience is just better if people aren’t blocked from entering because they have 1 too many prims in their hair or their vehicle and objects are returned or people blocked from building based on the unpredictable number of prims worn by agents in the region at the time. In other words the ‘prims worn by agents’ count in a sim is just too unpredictable and unmanageable to try and limit or block and would probably just create a lot of frustration when some things would sometimes work. That said this may change in the future – when the prim limits were first instantiated as they are, including parcel limits, prim attachments were not nearly as advanced and complex as many are today. Another datapoint is that unscripted prims don’t really have a large effect on sim performance, and with the Mono project we will be able to better manage (and limit in smart ways) the script usage on a region.

  17. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @14 Tryptofaa: As far as we know, the link limits code is working correctly. The linkability rules are documented on this project wiki page:

    Just to clarify, megaprims are a special edge case right now. They were created long ago, and are not really supported from a system perspective. What that means for the Havok4 release is the following:
    * existing megaprims will not be removed
    * existing megaprims on a region that are over 256m x 256m x 256m will be reduced in size to those maximum dimensions when that region is updated to the Havok4 server
    * no new build tools are being added with the Havok4 update, so there will continue to be no build tools that will create megaprims

    There are some issues around parcel overlap and permissions that have not yet been handled, and any further support of megaprims would wait until those issues have been resolved. That work is out of scope and not on the roadmap for the Havok4 update project. For what it’s worth, this information has been discussed at office hours several times over the last couple of months. Please feel free to drop in on office hours to discuss Havok4-related topics.

    Best regards,


  18. Syd Loon says:

    Havoc 4 looks great from the videos. I posted a few here.. cant wait to see how it improves performance, if it is anything like Windlights graphics updates I will be sufficiently impressed =p

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