WindLight Survey Results, Part 2!

Hey all. So I’ve gathered the results from the last WindLight Survey. Before I jump into the results themselves, however, I wanted to address one of the biggest issues that it raised: that of survey thoroughness. Many people loved the survey, but many also felt it was too broad and didn’t allow for enough depth (for example- coloration issues at sunset, not just brightness). Read on for my rationale and what the survey means for the future of WL…

So… the survey was originally meant as a quick gut-check as I was tweaking settings to see what people thought. However, as some may recall, the original was limited to only 100 responders and was thus not as wide as you would have liked. I promised to re-open it with unlimited responses. By the time that was done, however, I think the survey took on more significance than it was originally intended to have, and people were expecting a much more thorough analysis of the system.

It has basically highlighted a singular fact in my mind, and I think the only real answer to “more depth” to the questions- the power should be yours. As I pored through the results, many of them very vocal and some quite opposing to one another in taste, it was so blatantly obvious that full functionality of this tool is the only answer- estate controllability and settings-as-assets. Now, this is no great revelation, as both are and have been very much on our roadmap. But looking at the varied responses, it further underscored to me how much you guys are artists, and how much you truly should be given control of your world.

So, the real answer is not that Sunset should be more orange, or nighttime needs to be a hair lighter- it’s that you need your tools! Given WindLight’s radical nature in overhauling the system, we had to introduce it client-side only at first. But once that’s bulletproofed to a sufficient level, you better believe the server aspects are coming next.

That said, we’re still working our heinies off to make the defaults pretty!

And so, without further ado, here are the results, courtesy of 874 residents!
1. Compared to the older presets, in what direction do you think the default/midday settings should be taken?

  1. Eliminate all directional lighting and overbrightening- very close to the “classic” look 8.8% 77 votes
  2. It’s still not like the old Second Life – make it a bit flatter/more neutral 18.3% 160 votes
  3. It’s perfect just where it is! 33.5% 293 votes
  4. It could use a *tad* more contrast/shadowing 31.1% 272 votes
  5. Bring back the former preset- lots of light, lots of shadow! 8.2% 72 votes

2. What do you think of the current sunrise setting?

  1. Too dark 15.1% 132 votes
  2. Just right 72.8% 636 votes
  3. Too bright 12.1% 106 votes

3. What do you think of the current sunset setting?

  1. Too dark 20.6% 180 votes
  2. Just right 69.9% 611 votes
  3. Too bright 9.5% 83 votes

4. What do you think of the current nighttime settings?

  1. Too dark 19.8% 173 votes
  2. Just right 57.9% 506 votes
  3. Too bright 22.3% 195 votes

5. What do you think of the *strength* of local lighting? (Note: The local lighting, at present, fades as the sunlight gets brighter.)

  1. Too dark 30.3% 265 votes
  2. Just right 58.0% 507 votes
  3. Too bright 11.7% 102 votes

6. Overall, how would you rank the aesthetics of the WindLight viewer compared to the non-WindLight viewer?

  1. I much prefer the old look 2.6% 23 votes
  2. I somewhat prefer the old look 2.6% 23 votes
  3. I think they’re about equal 3.7% 32 votes
  4. I think WindLight looks better for some things 34.8% 304 votes
  5. I think WindLight looks phenomenal! 56.3% 492 votes

Thanks again to those who participated, and stay tuned for more enhancements and an ever-prettier world!

– Pastrami and the WindLight Team

This entry was posted in -Miscellaneous, Announcements & News, Development, New Releases, Resident Experience. Bookmark the permalink.

110 Responses to WindLight Survey Results, Part 2!

  1. JZ Paine says:

    Still feel the same that the moon needs to be larger and brighter and the sun more clearly defined. 🙂

  2. Ron Crimson says:

    Great! Thanks Pastaroni… er, Pastrami 🙂

  3. Ron Crimson says:

    Sorry for immediately snagging another post, but in response to #1: the sun IS fairly clearly defined at noon (look up once in a while LOL) 🙂

  4. Presumably you’re allowing for the fact that this survey self-selects for those who are actually gung-ho enough about Windlight to be running client betas – ie, it’s going to skew towards positive responses. Might be more informative to try to do a truly random sampling resident survey, though that would require devoting substantially more resources.

  5. Drako Nagorski says:

    hmm so settings-as-assets means inventory lighting settings? it’d be a good idea, if thats the case, to add very low powered settings thing that only cover basic lighting and such for nonWL viewers. also, simpler setting sliders? i still dont know what the sliders actually mean! maybe a color picker instead of a RGB slider trio, and sliders saying something more on the lines of “more dark/less dark” instead of gamma or whatever it is. and maybe a “more/less contrast” slider?

  6. Lindal Kidd says:

    Great job on WL so far…it’s my viewer-of-choice. A couple of non-visual bugs, though…

    -the teleport bug (delays, freezing, or crashing on TP) is still there.
    -the latest release added a memory leak that produces Out of Memory or Stack Heap Collision crashes. (the Nicholaz patch fixed it, BTW)
    -focus sometimes sticks in the IM window. ESC or ALT+mouse click doesn’t return focus to the main window. I have to click on the Chat History window first.
    -Property lines still can’t be seen through the water.

  7. Cincia Singh says:

    @ #4 … if they survey the general population, randomly, who is NOT running the Windlight Beta, and probably does not have sufficient computer equipment to adequately run Windlight, exactly what would they survey for? I understand your idea though and think you are correct that the results ARE somewhat skewed to residents with overall favorable thoughts about Windlight. Having seen Windlight it’s hard to go back to the standard viewer and it’s graphics.

  8. la le lu says:

    it’s for sure two slow. i stick with the standard renderer.

  9. Psistorm Ikura says:

    I agree with these results, the outcome of this survey pretty much reflects my view on things. I do also agree with the sun needing some more definition, other than being that bright patch in the sky it is right now. the reflection on the shiny map is just right, but the one in the sky could use some tweaking 🙂

  10. william Fish says:

    yeah because part 1 was a huge success… did anyone even get to vote? it was closed by the time i saw the survey which was posted the same day.

  11. Sean Heying says:

    I still much prefer the old look and am actually starting to dread Windlight hitting production. If you could just add water and skies to the existing client I would be happy.

    Lack of atmospherics, too much clarity, poor rendering of items just on the LOD boundary and totally messed up ground textures still make this pretty ugly to my eyes, mostly the loss of atmospherics (fog).

  12. Ralph Doctorow says:

    I really like Windlight, but PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE – make it possible for scripts to get environmental settings as well!!!!

    Currently, sun direction is the only reliable way to make a guess at sunrise / sunset, and that isn’t wonderful.

    It would be very useful to know the settings for hours per day/night, current sun (sim) time, projected sunset / sunrise, and an accurate sun / moon vector. Anything else that’s settable would be really useful too.

  13. Novis Dyrssen says:

    It looks amazing (although ogling a better graphic card has become a hobby now…). The only thing that feels really weird is that the detail from the avatar skins seems to have vanished – I suddenly look all single-colored any clay-like. And let’s face it, since most people spend their money on tweaking their own looks… that could be bad. 😉

  14. Jaxx Tardis says:

    I’d be happy if they would just get the nighttime brightness adjustment back in the graphics tab. I see it under the advanced button but can’t change it. I like my nights good and dark so the local lighting systems I have in place can properly come to life.

  15. Ann Otoole says:

    windlight needs to render textures at the same quality as they are in photoshop. altering the texture rendering is a really bad idea. you will damage the sl economy beyond recall. someone with a brain for marketing and customer service needs to be supervising the economic aspects of this great feature. exactly what are all the creators supposed to do when thousands of people begin complaining about products they already purchased. its really nice and all but we DO NOT RESPECT PURE TECHNOLOGISTS because they are generally clueless about the reality of business. technologists tend to move from job to job a lot. theres a reason for this. they are generally not worth much in real life and generally cause catastrophic damages wherever they go.

  16. The real key will be when I can set a default for my own sim. That’s where the true ability of this will reside. Then I’ll know that visitors to my sim will see things as I intend them to be seen.

    And, I’ll also look forward to seeing other places the way those owners intend me to see them. This is probably the single most important feature to me and the one I anxiously await for most of all.

  17. Lexii says:

    Not only is windlight much better looking, it is 100x more stable than the old SL client… I am happy with EVERYTHING to do with windlight!

  18. Lao-Tzu says:

    @6 I also noticed the “OUT OF MEMORY” pop-up box then subsequent crash..I thought it was just my computer.

    Many times, my SL experience using Windlight will begin to slowly grind to a lag-infested halt. The regular client doesn’t.

    Pastrami: I appreciate all the hard work and the frequent updates..BUT maybe you should conduct a grid-wide , optional survey on the log-in screen. Ask the question: Should LL even pursue Windlight’s environmental functionality? The answer may be surprising. I predict Windlight will be just as popular as Voice…which isn’t that popular. Windlight is fun initially for residents because its a creative way to relieve boredom. Its a great way for people to say “Look at what I created in the sky! Check out this snapshot!” These people ***cough** cough** torley linden ***cough*cough then show-off to others what was “artistically” created by using slider controls. The other person then smiles politely.
    I am not bashing Torley and I know he posts thousands of his Windlight creations on Flickr in order to show Windlight’s capability. Nothing wrong with that. But if one were to put a truth serum into Torley, and ask him “ that you have fully explored the Windlight slider controls…isn’t it a little boring now?”

  19. Paulo Dielli says:

    @ 15

    I totally agree. This terrible washout makes texture making almost unpredictable. Let Torley do another funny instruction video on ‘how to damage beautiful textures instantly in Windlight’.

    Really, I’d like to know. Do we have to make out textures much darker because they will be hit by sunlight? But what about that same texture at sunrise or sundown then? Not to mention midnight and all other thinkable settings. So do we need to make at least four textures or more for every light setting and add a huge texture change menu for every textured prim?!!!

  20. Lao-Tzu says:

    I bet the answer from him would be : “Watermelonyes, it is boring after one has explored every Windlight option”

  21. Kyder Ling says:

    Thanks for posting the results. I think the defaults are good enough to really floor some people on the visuals when just playing with it on a whim. I can’t wait for the inventory based skys come into play along with the sim defaults.

  22. Digital Digital says:

    Thanks for posting the results

  23. Dael Ra says:

    *4 I concur.

    The overwhelming reason I have to keep track of what’s going on with Windlight is that even after 6 months of reporting a problem about my Vista/ATI x1950 system, I still can’t see water properly on ANY Viewer.

    The simple fact is with the current Windlight Viewer on my set up, it would be totally pointless to even begin to fill in the form.

    Maybe if they had a “Does Windlight seems to work as expected” question on the survey, I might have been able to answer one question. 😉

    To be honest, getting water on the standard viewer to look right on my setup would give me far, far more joy than a few pretty clouds with Windlight.

    Of course, if Windlight can fix all the issues I have with my standard viewer then I’m all for getting it ready for mainstream ASAP.

  24. Dzonatas says:

    The Windlight viewer only works well on convex scenes. Once there are ridges, multiple foreshadowed objects (like trees, pillars, hallways), or just plain inside areas.. they all just don’t look right to the mind. Windlight brings nice environments effects, but it should leave out the brighting and contrasts until a real time ray tracer can be implemented. Even a simple real-time ray-tracer looks better than what Windlight does now for brights/shadows.

  25. Malachi Petunia says:

    By saying “the power should be yours” you are taking away from creators to create any kind of consistent look in that you have no idea what something will look like as each viewer will have it’s own settings and therefore the chance of something looking accidentally “correct” approaches zero.

    I’m not surprised that LL is selecting this option as it puts the difficult work onto people least skilled in the practice and theory of lighting and color – that is – the average customer.

    There is a reason why narrow standards like sRGB exist: they provide a reasonable default for people who don’t care to calibrate their monitors and just want to use product X. Tweakability is good, but even back in the 70s Brian Kernighan and others were advocating for removal of arbitrary restrictions coupled with reasonable defaults. Don’t abrogate your role as a designer here.

  26. Drake Angelus says:

    How About I could use windlight just fine til they added and changed the login Screen,now it crashes when I boot it up…don’t even finish loading…I ve had to go to the Nicholaz Edition which his patches fixed this issue…and the rings in the sky…

  27. Achtung Taurog says:

    I get crashes when I attempt to use the latest Windlight viewer. It crashes right from the login screen. My system information is below. I am using the latest forceware drivers from 20Dec2007. I am willing to file whatever bug reports by whatever means people can suggest. Any ideas?

    Second Life 1.18.6 (76453) Dec 29 2007 15:02:25 (Second Life WindLight)

    CPU: AMD (Unknown model) (2799 MHz)
    Memory: 2047 MB
    OS Version: Microsoft Windows Vista (Build 6000)
    Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation
    Graphics Card: GeForce 8800 GTS/PCI/SSE2/3DNOW!
    OpenGL Version: 2.1.2
    LLMozLib Version: 1.1.0 (Mozilla GRE:
    Viewer Digest: 0c308a9f-a09f-8536-c4ca-d3f4fef65a91

  28. WarKirby says:

    The new local lighting breaks some of my products, though. I really think it needs to be stronger 😦

  29. Ann Otoole says:

    before anyone puts any remote level of confidence in the windlight survey some reality needs to be tossed in. most windlight survey respondents at this time will be windlight enthusiasts. being an enthusiast is not a bad theng. after all we are generally all SL enthusiasts and we tend to see the positives of SL. otherwise SL would have been shuttered long ago.

    Here is a very valid suggestion:
    make the windlight viewer mandatory for a month. then run your survey but make it mandatory for connecting to sl. the survey would be simple. keep windlight or go back to the normal viewer. if the general SL populace elects the normal viewer then pack up the windlight idea and let those talented people go find work elsewhere. if, on the other hand, the general populace loves windlight and are not screaming about textures looking horrible then your a go and already in production.

    bet your career on windlight. no waffling. put your rl livelihood where your mouth is.

  30. Chronic Masturbator Smurf says:

    Why does anyone even use the standard client now? At lowered graphical settings with the advanced features turned off, Windlight performs better than the main client (higher fps for the same basic look). Avatar Imposters alone should make Windlight the client of choice for those with older machines. No show stopper bugs either (a few very annoying ones though, I admit, but getting better with every release).

    /me shrugs.

  31. Deltango Vale says:

    It is silly to have the sun and moon move along a precise east-west axis. It looks artificial (which it is) and boring. May I suggest that the sun follow the seasons, shifting to the north in the winter and back toward the east-west axis in the summer? Similarly, the phases and azimuth of the moon could be calculated and programmed. Yes, I could do it myself with the settings provided, but I think it makes a good deal of sense to have the default be more natural.

  32. Neon Dingson says:

    @29 Ann, if SL remains in it’s current 2D graphic environment then it will become a niche product and become but a memory. For SL to develop into the wider market place it needs to look and feel wonderful graphically. WL might not yet be perfect (hence the reason for it only being First Look) but it is one step in the right direction. By moving in this direction not only will SL appeal to a wider audience, it will be easier to make other graphical improvements in future as and when they are required.

  33. Cocoanut Koala says:

    I very rarely question survey results. But I can’t help but think this one IS a tad skewed somehow.

    And by the way, I just now did the survey. I had already gotten into Windlight to check some more, but it has only been two days since the blog post that the survey was up. I hope my answers will still count; the survey seemed to still submit.

    As to the survey itself – some of the questions I simply didn’t understand, as the possible answers were “too dark” or “too light”, rather than saying, “too intense,” or “altogether wrong color.” But I answered as best I could anyway.

    My feelings this time were that maybe the seams weren’t so bad after all, but the INTENSITY of color – particularly at sunset – overwhelming the color the builder chooses – is still . . . well, while nice while flying around and taking random pictures, NOT so nice when you would like to make a house a certain color, rather than too orange.

    Now, looking at your survey results above, it looks like if anything, the problem of sunset is a problem to many.

    But again – “dark” and “light” don’t really get at it! The problem is, “too intense.” I can see some people checking light while others check dark, even though they might both mean, too intense!

    So you might be better off simply to add all the dark and light people together, rather than letting them cancel out each other, and conclude they are meaningless.

    I think Windlight just needs toning down, if possible. Less intense and aggressive in all its effects, if that makes sense. (That might help the sparkling seams problem, too.)


  34. Loraan Fierrens says:

    It’s very odd, but for the first time, I don’t find myself cross at the comments. 🙂

    Anyway, I think it’s wonderful that you’ve asked for opinions and have posted the results, but I wish you had asked about something I care about: performance. Chronic says he (she?) gets better performance on Windlight, but I wish that were true for me. At least on my dual core MacBook Pro, performance is worse than the old client even if I turn off… well… WindLight. Avatar impostors are great, and I like the new graphics preferences panel, but I just wish the WindLight performed more like it did when it originally appeared.

  35. richard says:

    wow everyone voted just right !!!

  36. Penny Patton says:

    Textures should be affected by their environment, this is not Photoshop nor should it be. If your textures look good well lit, then they should work well with the lighting. Textures, lighting, and shadows all work together to create an immersive, visually impressive environment.

    Most any videogame in recent years, or Hollywood production incorporating CG has textures that are “washed out”, “obscured”, “too orange at sunset and sunrise” and this has been the case since these media could produce these effects. Only in SL are these same effects considered a problem.

    As Neon has suggested, if LL appeased that mindset, it would severely limit the possibility of SL achieving a broader appeal.

    @25 While I agree with what you’re saying about standards, I don’t believe they’re suggesting the altogether removal of default settings or estate owner created defaults

  37. Darkrogue says:

    By and large, I’ve been loving the view that Windlight gives me into The Grid! FPS is up, while freezing is down.

    The issue with reduced visibility of avatars at the edge of LOD is a concern, as is some pixelation I’ve encountered when viewing those big, flowing skirts and particle effects. I’ve run into that pesky memory leak. Kinda sharp out her on the bleeding-edge folks 😉

    Ann @29’s idea is interesting if a tad excessive. A month is an awful long time. But a week of mandated WindLight, followed by an in-depth survey and analysis might not be a horrible thing to try.

    Keep up the great work!

  38. mimi says:

    I wonder what the results would be if they were run amonst the “average” user? WL enthusiastics are not average!

    Windlight is great for making photos (when one knows how to twitch the settings its amazing!), but I guess some average residents will be panicked when half of their house becomes orange..
    Inside houses there is a bright orange sunlight too, even if they have no windows: it looks like the walls are transparent and the sun shines right through them.

    The average user can’t twitch the settings, most (newer) residents will see the (main) land as the default settings will be.

    Might be good, might be not good.. why not ask the average resident?

  39. Maxwell Freeman says:

    Sorry for sounding so blunt…

    But why do I suddenly feel like the whole poll was nothing but a big farce?

  40. Max Kleiber says:

    My first thought upon reading the results of the poll were:”Well, of COURSE the results will be overwhelmingly positive, since I have no access to the raw data. Why would he post results that were in any way negative?”

  41. Deise Morgan says:

    Yeah, as above, all I can say is, I’d like to see a better moon, and sharper, less blob like sun. Windlight is great, and is shaping up quite nicely.

  42. Dekka Raymaker says:

    So my take on this is that probably…

    5. What do you think of the *strength* of local lighting? (Note: The local lighting, at present, fades as the sunlight gets brighter.)
    1. Too dark 30.3% 265 votes
    2. Just right 58.0% 507 votes

    Lighten a *tad*

  43. Aiden Zhichao says:

    the Moon needs to be bigger??? no, it needs to be smaller, not biger. the moon is already big enough as it is.

  44. Adec Alexandria says:

    there was a 2nd survey ?

  45. Gil Druart says:

    @31 – Northern hemisphere hegemonist 😛 My what a small world some people live in.

    Liked the results on the whole. Yes, they’re biased, but realistically they should be .. just like the real world most people will be apathetic until *after* the event at which point they will complain they weren’t consulted 😉

    Only one that surprised me was the one about nighttime – it’s WAY too bright – you aren’t supposed to be able to see 100m plus at night … I suppose you have people sitting in brightly lit rooms complaining that the screen is a bit dark .. go figure

  46. William says:

    I would like to second that motion

  47. Angsty Rossini says:

    A a builder, I find the light during noon to be too bright and washes out all my textures and they look awful. I have to relog back into SL with the general viewer in order to see what my textures REALLY look like.

    Anything white or pale is way too bright and any details of the textures are totally lost in all that over-exposed light.

    Please fix! (Couldn’t find that option in the survey??)

    PS re #31 – I hope LL remembers that there are 2 hemispheres and that they have opposing seasons…


  48. Rooke Ayres says:

    When I tried WindLight, all I got was horrid 8bit rendering, very widely banded, flat colors on ALL textures, on my not so old ATI X800XT.

    It looked terrible compared to the standard viewer.

  49. Delu Elytis says:

    Nighttime is much to bright for my taste, so I lower the scene gamma a lot. I make use of local lightning to brighting the dark nights, VERY cozy sitting in front of a campfire in the middle of the woods with that.
    It just hard to fix an exact point with those sliders, one end up with random of between 0.5-0.10 increments.

    As for the moon and sun movement, look and so one:
    “What’s in store for the future of Windward Mark tech in Second Life?

    Enhanced nighttime options like moonlight, moon phases, astral bodies like shooting stars.

    “Where’s the moon? I miss the moon too!
    Another great and popular question we heard a lot of recently. We want to add features that’ll allow you to add not just one moon, or one sun for that matter, but multiple celestial bodies. If you have a specific design idea, please put it in the Issue Tracker as a new feature, and set “Affects Version/s = First Look: WindLight”. Thank-you.”

    I look forward to THAT!

  50. KS says:

    Adequate research requires professional skill/expertise/talent.

    Those characteristics appears gravely lacking in the construction of this questionnaire. Much of it reminded me of the Goldilocks’ nursery story:

    “And this one is … JUUUUUUSSSST right!”

    Unlike the last blog report (on the initial ‘survey’ results) this one, at least, exposes the …ahem… breath of information captured.

    Once WindLight hits full production, if “just right” remains the ‘gold standard’… then home owners (as one example) will be understandably dissatisfied by the flickering seams, bleached out/detail-less textures, of their once beautiful homes.

    Builders that work across both viewers… know whereof I speak. Yet, none of the questions addressed these issues. With all the “just rightedness” of this survey… it seems more like a marketing tool than anything else.

    LL needs consider hiring folks with TRAINING/EDUCATION to perform specific tasks.

  51. KS says:

    For a more balanced perspective of user opinion on WindLight presets, overall appearance, etc, visit the hefty bug list at:

  52. Rayy Giles says:

    I’m not sure how correct this survey on windlight is, was the majority of the votes from people who don’t build, design and etc. I tried windlight and it washed out textures, some cases darken. Everyone has their own preferences and opinions but i still have to wonder just how many of these positive voters for windlight, might be lured and mezmorized by a bug light if they are looking for colors.

  53. buffy rang says:

    I hope you consider that the avs look terrible in Windlight. Yes, the environment look great, but last time i checked, most people don’t spend money on the pretty environment, at least as not as much as their av. Please consider fixing the av look before going off the deep end.

  54. Argent Stonecutter says:

    Windlight still needs global override settings. Jaxx’ comment about nighttime brightness, for example… me, I need to increase the brightnessfor both day and night, he needs to reduce it at night. We can’t do this using the current windlight settings unless we override the settings people create… we need a GLOBAL override. A pair of sliders, perhaps, for night and day, one to adjust the brightness, and another to adjust the ratio of ambient and directional light.

  55. Elle Pollack says:

    @48 – you mean like this?

    That’s an old screenshot, but it turned out that the computer I was using then required a driver upgrade for the graphics card, after which everything was fine. As I recal it was a web cafe machine with an ATI card.

  56. Elle Pollack says:

    Builders, here is a tip:

    If Windlight is getting in the way of you being able to see what you’re texturing, you can make a preset that will give you very even “work lighting”.

    -Open the Environment Editor from the World -> Environment Settings menu. Click on “Advanced Sky”
    – Click on the “Lighting” tab.
    – Click the “New” button and give your preset a name
    – Under Sun/Moon color, drag the I slider all the way over to 0. This kills the directional light.
    – Drag the I slider under “Ambient” up until you have a desired brightness – 1.0 is probably too bright, something between 0.7 and 0.8 will probably work for most people.
    -Click “Save”.

    Please note, this is *not* meant to be a primary viewing preset! It’s just a tool for builders and texturers to make things easier to see while working. You should still preview your work under default settings to see how it will look normaly.

    At some point I’ll post the preset somewhere as a download.

  57. mimi says:

    Avatars eyes light up when the res of the avatar is in the shadow- they look like they are set on “brightness”

    I am missing the underwear too in the take of clothes pie

  58. Sean Heying says:

    @ 58 Mimi says “I am missing the underwear too in the take of clothes pie”

    No, this is the new Linden Mind Police requirement again.

    And, I am an average user in terms of windlight in reference to another question you asked earlier up, I don’t understand all the slider and quite frankly I dislike what the defaults do to things.

    Maybe the default default should be tweaked to be as close as humanly possible to the classic viewer while still retaining water and clouds.

    I still can’t understand why terrain tile 1 is not being rendered at all. All those desert islands no longer sandy!

  59. Wyald Woolley says:

    I wondered where the underwear controls went too. Not in the pie and no longer under the remove clothing choices in the drop down menues. If I need to remove underwear, the only way to do it is to remove all clothing. When I do that the morals police come and get me, report me for being naked in an adult game, and search me for poker chips or anything else I may have that shows I might be gambling or banking (yeah, I know that redundant)

    My eyes too glow like a cloned cat. WindLight is good for sky and water, really crappy for avatar skin, eyes, hair, and clothing. I think a slider for eye brightness would be great for those who do want to look like Bella Lugosi.

  60. mimi says:

    @ 59 Sean says
    “No, this is the new Linden Mind Police requirement again.”

    lol yes.. make all of Secondlife PG by forbidding us to take off our underclothes *lol*

  61. JB says:

    Right on Ann (#15) Textures should be exactly as they appear or render in CS3 or photoshop. Anyone in today’s graphic industry uses it as a standard and why not, it’s the best? Why make it half assed? This should not even have to be an issue to be discussed. Stop distorting REAL colors, textures, for just for some photo op play toys. Lets balance this puppy out and make it shine baby! The water is amazing, but if you look like a glob of clay next to it, who cares? Must be the all the licker crazed people who take very distorted contrasts, way over used plug in’s …. Shrugs

  62. JB says:

    * Flicker or other online photo groups

  63. You give the link to the sources archive, but the sources for this new WL version are still not available there…

    Please, upload the sources !

  64. Oops, sorry… my previous post belonged to the other WL thread… Multitasking sometimes causes errors… ;-P

  65. Pepper Haas says:

    #25 Malachi I agree — I am sure Windlight is ultrapretty but I dread the day it’s coming, I can give up designing as I will have to deal with far too many knobs and sliders and then when done, the fact that it will look very different in another’s viewer. Everything I know rely on to work one way will have to be done differently to cope with the new avatar and light settings. Many people in SL are techies and quick to understand and learn these things, and all of its developers and designers are, and they quite forget that a lot of non-technical people live and work in SL who just want to be with their friends and do their thing and have a good time and could care less what the sky looks like.

  66. followmeimthe piedpiper says:

    As I cant see Windlight properly on my ATI card I can’t comment – however I would appreciate some effort being put into alpha textures overlapping properly on either viewer as this has been a real pain forever and a day in SL.

  67. Masuyo Aabye says:

    theres a few people here saying thier pc isn’t powerful enough to run WL.
    i have a FOUR year old mid range(well it was midrange when i got it) amd athlon 3000+ 64, 1 gig of ram, gforce6600 standard. this machine will run WL at tweaked high settings. if a 4 year old rig can run it then whatever you’re running must be really, really bad. update from you pentium 3’s please, just because your machine cannot run it doesn’t mean that people who can run it should suffer and not get it. it’s called progress.

  68. Mimika Oh says:

    Hi Pastrami. Please be sure to do a random sampled survey at some point, rather than a self-selected survey of people interested in WindLight, who will naturally tend to say that they like it. I hope that all your work on WindLight turns into improvements for everyone, but if you only listen to people who like the way it’s going now then there’s a risk you’ll end up pleasing a minority. Gambatte!

  69. Penny Patton says:


    Yes, Photoshop is a standard, however anyone who does textures for games or CG animation realizes that once their textures are implemented they will be working with a range of lighting, shading, atmospheric, and other effects.

    SL residents seem to be having a difficult time accepting that. However, since it is so broadly embraced in all other CG related markets, I can only come to the conclusion #32 posted. SL will only entrench itself further as a niche platform.

    I’ve always agreed that the settings need tweaking, but all this doom talk about the texture industry in SL being put out of business by these effects is completely baseless.

  70. Bittersweet Lime says:

    #68 is actually correct, this survey has no relevance. Especially the way you ask produces the results you want – “just right”.

    People tend to avoid by psychological reasons making decisions, which would lead to a vital change which might not be under their control. If you would have let out “just right” as an answer, you would have gotten much better results and a general tendency of in which direction to improve the viewer.

  71. Renato says:

    I think we need to look at the big picture and thats the lack of fixed issues from the past 20+ updates. I notice that out of what an average 50000 people Pastrami stated this favorable survey towards WL was completed by 874 residents? Something seriuosly wrong there i agree there should be a GRID wide optional all tho i think it should be a mandatory survey.

  72. Dekka Raymaker says:

    One could ask, how many residents actually have their monitor settings adjusted correctly? in my experience a lot of people I know have never adjusted them since getting a computer, just a thought.

  73. Cat Gisel says:

    Is there a cheatsheet out there for better speed on certain cards with Windlight? WL is gorgeouse, but I decided to go back to the old viewer…uh so I could like,..go places and do stuff. I am not technical enough to figure the details out, but if someone could (or has already done so) collect the best settings for speed and such it would be great. (I mean outside of SL on the computer). I can do ok with the lowest setting in the meantime. Thanks 🙂

  74. PurevilDarkelf Bulan says:

    I was skeptical about windlight myself. Had a friend DL who loved it so I gave it a whirl and found it was no harder on my computer than normal SL. And MUCh nicer. Even put some pics up on a few sites I go to it was so nice. ONLY issue I have is that in some areas the *^%%^# fog and plants glow so bright at night it actually hurts my eyes. When I get my good computer up and running again I hope to get to run the newest windlight. for once I ccan say keep up the good work..just make me not crash so much!!!

  75. I generally love the way windlight looks, but on my system (win2k, radeon 9700 pro) after about 10 minutes the screen gets filled with random polygons. At least on the last 2 clients, so I switched back to the normal client. 😛

  76. Kugel says:

    WL runs perfectly on my P4 2.8, 1GB memory, ATI 9800pro lite card, XPpor SP2 machine .. ok… settings are set to medium but it looks and runs fine.. less freezes, more fps.

    2 things I had initial probs with 3 versions back..

    1. 8 bit-like colouring and banding of the sky – was running in full-screen mode.. swtiched to windowed mode… FIXED.
    2. explosion of triangles (polygons??) – disabled VBO – FIXED.

    So.. FYI.. for what its worth.

  77. Egon Rothschild says:

    have they solved the problem of missing avies with windlight? i stopped running windlight. 10% of the avies i saw had ONLY their name tag. no avi. no clothing. no attachments. no nothing. only the name tag. very spooky. and when i mentioned this at a club, i was not the only one with this problem. yet, i never saw a survey asking MY opinion.

  78. Satori Taringa says:

    I think that people who complain about WindLight are photoshoppers
    who want the same static lighting conditions to remain in effect for the
    entire day/night cycles, while we know that in RL that lighting conditions
    are in constant change. Does a picture look the same at high noon
    outside in the sun as it does under artifical inside lights? It’s why
    women’s makeup kits have separate sets for day & night . If the goal
    of WL is to emulate RL lighting conditions, then it’s on the right track.

  79. Are there plans to have performance test set-ups to collect data on FPS vs. production clients as in the past First Looks? For instance, FL Island. I believe that’s needed.

  80. Web Page says:

    I haven’t had a tremendous amount of luck with windlight either as an artistic tool or in terms of stability. It’s only “okay” at both.

    The default settings you’ve come up with are reasonable (sometimes stunning) outdoors… and directional point lighting – (local lights) alone will never fill in the gap in a drak room… nor will my viewer or monitor ever comensate like my eyes would. Could we have locale based ambient lighting – (area lights), Something that boosts visibility in all directions in an area for everybody (not just high end hardware).

    I’d also like a whole additional panel for “avatar shaders” with a checked default for “same as the rest of this gobledygook. I know it adds difficulty from every direction, but it would help with a lot of issues.

  81. Tracey Humphreys says:

    re 78: Good point. I am a Photoshopper, though, and I think Windlight is amazing. I just check everything looks ok at dusk, dawn noon and midnight.
    Having two (three if you include SL release candidate) clients is a pain, though, having to check in all of these. The sooner one just client the better…

    Well done, you programmers.

  82. Tristin Mikazuki says:

    So Linden Labs you have cost me over $200 USD by shutting down the banks WHEN are you going to pay me back or are you just going to rip me and your other customers off like usall?

    You guys at Ll can NOT be trusted even a little there IS fraud in SL but its Linden Lab that is doing it!!!

  83. Ishtara Rothschild says:

    I just had another look at the WindLight client. Lost of the “too bright and colorful” complaints are due to the missing fog I think. Turn off the fog in the standard viewer with Ctrl + Alt + F6, and everything will look “brighter” too (meaning it will have a more intense color saturation).

    I don’t see what would be wrong with textures; textures applied to the upper side of a prim look exactly as they do in Photoshop, imho. In the standard SL viewer they lost a bit color saturation. Even noon looked a bit like a cloudy day, color temperature wise. With the Windlight viewer, a sunny day is finally really sunny.

  84. Ishtara Rothschild says:

    The only issue I have with the WindLight viewer is the very slow texture loading. It takes ages until vendor textures appear at the original resolution. This is much faster in the old client. Perhaps this could be sped up? The WindLight viewer doesn’t seem to realize which texture the camera looks at in order to load it prior to textures in the distance.

  85. Tristin Mikazuki says:

    So Linden Labs when are you going to refund the money from the banks you have closed? I have called and submited a support ticket but that has never seemed to get anything done So I will post here on every single blog you make intell I get the money YOU lost me from the bank banning.

    ps there is fraud in SL and Linden Lab is the one doing it..and NO I’m NOT a happy customer at all. You guys have got to STOP screwing over you customers like this and costing them their whole busniess because this will just end up killing SL ;-(

  86. jane says:

    The midday settings are too neutral, a bit more spires are welcome.
    The sunrise setting is a little too bright, more shadowing is recommended. The same for the sunset settings. The strenght of local lightning has a too low contrast – the settings from the first windlight viewer (73655) looks more real. The actual windlight looks like the normal viewer. If the athmosphere option is marked, the brightness cant be adjustet on ATI-cards. My advice is keep in the newest version of the viewers “quality” proven settings from earlier viewers. Dont change the settings too much, step by step and minor changes are more useful and traceable.

  87. Haravikk Mistral says:

    How about giving us the ability to send-in what we feel are the best standard settings? i.e. – we take the default, adjust it ourselves and save it, then take the file (wherever it is saved) and submit it to you? Then some diligent lindens can pore over a sample of these, or use a script or something to find common elements to people’s “perfect” settings?

    Obviously bogus entries which are pure green or whatever need discarded, but it might get a better sampling of what the actual perfect default is.

  88. lazygardens says:

    I would like it better if the settings were explained a bit better. Right now I have no idea what most of them do.

  89. KS says:


    Ummm, thankyouverymuch. I know how to tweak the settings.

    According to your logic, I probably should give anyone visiting my sim to shop product the same viewing ‘specs’?


  90. Dreena says:

    Pfft, when I can move around without vectors shooting out of my head – then I’ll be impressed. And for those inquiring – no, it’s not my computer since I’m running 4G RAM, Radeon X1600, 3.2 on the motherboard and broadband.

  91. Mavia Hian says:

    Windlight is gorgeous, but it needs to remain optional. On my computer (which renders games like Oblivion very well), it halves the framerate, messes up rendering, and crashes within 10 minutes. I’m glad Linden is experimenting with new features, but I’d rather have a usable viewer.

  92. Anyone else getting a weird bug where you use the alt key to focus your camera on an object then go to rotate around the object, and find that the focus is shifted to somewhere else? (I’m almost suspecting that the focus shifts the the former position of the object you are trying to focus on.) The camera begins to focus properly only after I shift drag to create a new copy of the object and delete the old one.

  93. Hen says:

    Windlight sucks on Mac!

  94. Wolfie Rankin says:

    I think it’s better than it was, that “bleached look” is gone, things are definately better. It would be nice to *share* settings with friends, for when you make a nice one, and take a photo and your friend goes “wow, that’s awesome, I like that!” Sort of like how we can give each other an LM. I think that’s be great.

    As for the settings now, a vast improvement, and I was one who was very negative about windlight before.


  95. mudracer65nl sands says:

    all nice and good but what about inventory loss …..i lost some cool items from my inventory …..and clear cache did not bring any off them back :/


  96. Lane says:


    Sorry it is in caps but I am starting to sound like a tape recorder.

    It’s a simple thing really, texture leaks in colorful triangles all over. And I have a GOOD hardware, not the minimum but the reccomended, so it is supposed to be working right.

    Windlights is great. I’m not the only one with the issue and not the only one wanting to enjoy windlights so, a lil help here:


  97. Nad Gough says:

    I’m rather surprised that a prim setting – glow – is being CONSIDERED as scriptable. Hello? Every aspect of a prim should be scriptable out of the gate – not months from now. Say you build fireplaces. You add the glow feature to your setting. It looks lovely. Now you have a script to turn your fire off and on. When you turn the fire off it still glows. Come on – this isn’t a matter of how many people express an interest in this feature or when you can make time. If you introduce a prim characteristic it should be script ready. Discussion is not called for. Hello again? PRIM – the basic unit? Please fix this oversight and take steps to ensure that new prim characteristics are implemented in LSL as a normal part of development, before releasing said new setting.

  98. davidjames irwin says:

    Good progress but it is still way too slow to use as my default viewer and i have lots of minor issues but believe it or not my major annoyance is why does beach raster as grass! As a major beachfront property owner I cannot take cool windlight pictures illustrating the beach!

  99. CaptJosh Au says:

    All that stuff about the sun and the moon and lighting is all well and good, but how about fixing the fact that sometimes avatars don’t appear, and sometimes small objects aren’t drawn until you’re practically on top of them. That’s my biggest complaint. I love the look. It’s just render bugs like that drive me nuts and keep me going back to the release viewer instead.

  100. CaptJosh Au says:

    One other note. Make Windlight settings stop screwing with standard viewer settings. I shouldn’t have to tweak EVERYTHING back each time I switch from one to the other.

  101. ONE PO'd RESIDENT says:

    tryed it nothing will render except my av in ruthed form no land no sky no objects just the ruthed av was same on last release as well previous ones were fine for me

  102. jane says:

    Pastrami, how i can participate following surveys? Its very important to me give my impressions back to you! Thanks.

  103. Montana Corleone says:

    Well yes, works very poor on my Mac, drops frame rate from 20fps to 0.4. I’m concerned with everybody off tweaking textures for WL. What effects is that gonna make for us who have to look with the old stuff? Honestly, if you want this to be wider in takeup, then you need lower common denominators, not state of the art kit. That’s the nature of the web… doh.

  104. RC Paderborn says:

    For those with the triangle problems using Windlight with ATI cards: I have a 1650XT and had that problem. It’s gone now.

    I updated to the latest drivers but more importantly I ran the ATI Overclock Wizard. This wizard sets your card at its slowest, then starts to play the with the settings as it does graphics things with the card (and watches the GPU temperature.)

    Took about ten minutes to run, but it boosted the GPU speed about 10% and more importantly, almost no triangles! I still some if I’ve zoomed way in on something and am panning the camera around, not through normal use.

    The downside… even before the driver update, I’ve lost the sparkles on the water. I even renamed the Second Life folder in Application Data (windows) to reset everything. No sparkles. And the water is so clear that yes I CAN see the property lines in the water now.

    To the guy complaining about the loss of banks in SL. I wouldn’t say LL is committing fraud, but between their ban gambling (I averaged L$600 a night in winning playing holdem two hours a night), LL dumping mass quantities of new land on the market slicing property values in half and now eliminated my modest income from my deposit in JT Financial, I can honestly say that I’ve lost a lot more money due to Linden Labs than I ever lost to an SL casino or bank. Then again, since I never lost money from JT Financial and only played Holdem, ANY losses from the Lindens would be more than from those two.

    And here I had figured that strip clubs and escorts would be next on the Linden Ban Parade to create an SL that Jerry Falwell would love.

  105. RC Paderborn says:

    BTW, I’ve love to see Torley Linden’s computer specs posted so the rest of us can get 20FPS and higher with Windlight set on Ultra.

    With my P4 3Ghz hyperthreaded, 2GB ram, ATI Radeon 1650XT AGP 8X video (yes I know, new computers HAVE PCI-E at 16X) and Windows XP, I get about 21fps at low, 20fps at MID, 16fps at High and 11fps at Ultra. At least til I move then it all drops a bunch.

  106. mimi says:

    brookston i have the same bug

  107. Ishtara Rothschild says:

    “With my P4 3Ghz hyperthreaded, 2GB ram, ATI Radeon 1650XT AGP 8X video (yes I know, new computers HAVE PCI-E at 16X) and Windows XP, I get about 21fps at low, 20fps at MID, 16fps at High and 11fps at Ultra. At least til I move then it all drops a bunch.”

    My old second PC is more or less the same system. P4 3 GHz, 2 GB RAM, AGP bus. But I use a GeForce 7600 GT and get about 35-40 fps in the WindLight Viewer. All you need is a contemporary video card.

  108. I have an older computer and won’t be able to upgrade my video card for a while yet, and frankly I fear WindLight. Please do not look down on those of us who are in this position. We are also paying premium customers and there are a LOT of people who want to use SL who are on office grade machines, not gaming rigs. Making SL a bad experience for all these people doesn’t make sense.

    While new consumer computers are generally Vista compatible and more graphically oriented, the small to midrange business users are still holding onto XP and older machines. There are good business related reasons for this, far more necessary to these users than gaming graphics. Locking people out of SL because of WindLight, or degrading their experience of it, just doesn’t make any sense.

  109. Charmaine McMahon says:

    Thank you so MUCH. My monkeygrass is no longer pink! LOL. Several versions ago I could see water textures from a sky platform–that ability has not yet returned but there’s a marked improvement in texture quality overall.

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