Search Changes Tomorrow

As previously announced, we are making several changes to the new Search All during tomorrow’s update. These changes fix several known issues and provide slightly more relevant results. Keep reading for more information on the changes:

  • Classifieds: We are removing classifieds from the main body of the Search All results. They will still appear in the sidebar on the right. This change also fixes an issue where teleporting to a classified location found in the body of search results did not increase the click-through count reported to the advertiser.
  • Bug Fix #1: We fixed the Google pagination error which prevented some search results from navigating beyond the fifth page. (VWR-3159)
  • Bug Fix #2: We also fixed the disappearing/reappearing bug which caused certain places, groups and/or people to not appear in search if they were taken out then added back Read more about this bug here.
  • Relevance Improved: Holding lots of events at a place no longer increases the relevance of that place in Search All results. (This change was made two weeks ago and should be reflected in the search results now).

Please note that the order for classifieds will not change. They will remain listed in the same order as the Search Classifieds tab (by amount paid). Also, the frequency of updates is still the same (may take 1-3 days for any changes to be reflected in the search all results). Thank you all for your patience while we work to improve finding things in Second Life.Still curious about the new search?

About Jeska Linden

Product Manager, Instigator
This entry was posted in Announcements & News, New Releases. Bookmark the permalink.

150 Responses to Search Changes Tomorrow

  1. Ann Otoole says:

    when will you make bot use to increase traffic a TOS violation. bot use to increase traffic is a clear case of fraud. please move to close this off as all it does is use grid resources to benefit the dirt that uses such low tricks.

  2. Broccoli Curry says:

    118% agree with Ann. You said ages ago that you wewe going to remove traffic, now follow through with it, you’ll get rid of campers, zombie alt farms in skyboxes, and much of the wasted grid load.

    You would make a lot of people very happy with this simple change.

  3. Xavier Tosung says:

    Totally agree, i hate bots i wish LL would make an LSL function to retrieve whether someone is logged in with a genuine Linden Lab client, that was at least we can crete stuff to get rid of them

  4. Iexo Bethune says:

    That does seem like a farely simple way to reduce grid load, and I do get tired of those “ghost” people…

  5. WarKirby says:

    Xavier, that’s not logical or possible.

    Making camping illegal is also unfeasible. The only way to stop iit is to remove the source, traffic.

  6. mimi says:

    I wonder if it would be possible to add a direct link to opening the profile like in the people search (which does not appear in google) when people choose to hide their profiles from the new search.

    I have hidden mine because I don’t want it in google, but since then a number of newbies have been complaining they cannot reach me anymore because the new search profile is hidden, and they do not know they still can open my profile in the people search. To them it appears if there is no profile at all anymore.

  7. Juji Kumsung says:

    Bot Fraud….

    Down with Bots

  8. Daten Thielt says:

    Getting rid of it wouldl be the best think LL have done since windlight, reduces load, will remove client sided lag, stop cheating F***ers gaining an unfair advantage.

    Removal FTW
    Great work btw LL, keep it up ur getting there slowley!!!

  9. Lao-Tzu says:

    I am also in agreement with 1 and 2 above. Do away with the official traffic stat for sims. When traffic stats become obsolete-so will much of the clutter caused by bots.
    My guess is that LL is worried their population count will reduce if this was enacted due to all the deceased bots.

  10. A little off topic... says:

    I wondered how long it would be before LL posted another blog post to hide the bank closure post.

    I’m waiting for the other 2 or 3 posts they post afterwards to move it down and hide it. Funny tho, this usually happens on a Friday?

  11. Darien Caldwell says:

    Thanks for fixing the page 5 issue. That was quite a showstopper for those farther down the ranks. I still don’t quite get the part about removing classifieds from Search All? Isn’t that what All is supposed to mean, All? Someone told me they thought it was because of keyword spamming, however I fail to see how removing classifieds would solve that. People can just as easily spam with irrelevant keywords in their parcel name. Can some realistic explanation be given for why Classifieds are being removed from Search All results?

  12. Okay, you see some increase in relevance. The question is, in your testing, are people still using classifieds even though they are separate from search all? If they are not, this isn’t good… expect a tectonic shift in advertising.

  13. Kira says:

    yes, do away with traffic!
    And what is with the dual log ins on the DNS page. there are two places to enter name and pass the orgianl and a new one anyone else seeing that?

  14. Bubba B says:

    It’s time to remove traffic as a determining factor in search. Use of camping bots has really put it over the edge. Then merchants can devote full attention to gaming the keywords. Like giving each of their camping bots 20 profile picks for the property. I like the new search and think it is a real improvement. Keep makin it more better!

  15. Ciaran Laval says:

    Well with camping bots completely abusing the new search all and with classifieds for popular markets being redundant for all but the big advertisers (taking classifieds out of the main body vastly reduces the visibility of a classified) I’d like to thank you Jeska for saving me L$ each week on recurring adverts, this money will afford me camping bots so I can game the system like everyone else.

  16. shawnwirtz tiki says:

    I agree most traffic is bogus now every trick has been found either do away with traffic and have it sorted by revelence or have it made to
    each unique visiter to the parcel gets 1 point of traffic – not minutes but each unique visiter to that parcel – Traffic should equal unique visiters not minutes 🙂

  17. Vanya Rennahan says:

    I agree that removal of traffic is the next big step that LL needs to take in order to fully improve the search function. But lets brainstorm a little….if there was no traffic, how would you like to see a new search perform? Alphabetical order? Keywords? % Relevance?

  18. Oryx Tempel says:

    Get rid of traffic and it will get rid of 95% of the bots infesting LL and will return true login concurrency to real users. PLEASE do something!

  19. Istephanija Munro says:

    Before I am complaining about the changes i am going to wait for the results even when I tend to believe that a google search engine is not going to help in a virtual world. It is a machine, it is just as smart as the people that feed it and there should be a lot more categories that handle the relevance terms differently.

    Take the clubs with malls in example. Depending on the amount of tenants / products this will dominate over the relevant club items. It will be hard to recognize the club as what it is. Taking out the events makes it worse. A Mall creates a huge variety of items in search engine terms they create a mess. Every SL merchant will second that sales been lower in malls since the new search.

    What the search needs is a category for malls and similar which offer a variety of products where the search engine creates a specified profile with a higher tolerance.

  20. Vanya Rennahan says:

    In response to # 16…

    maybe we will see a surge in the population as everyone who used to use campers, now makes it their job to create new ALTs.

  21. Broccoli Curry says:

    #17… the best way would be to simply randomise the results.

    Oh, and make anything that says “free money” or “sex” or “camping” come right at the bottom of the list 🙂

  22. Broccoli Curry says:

    #20 … if everyone makes new alts, then you’re still only allowed 5 per person unless you input fake data, which is then a ToS violation.

    But if traffic is no longer a factor … then people won’t have a need to fill their stores with zombies anyway.

  23. Davina Glitter says:

    We need more catagories for searching, do not worry about the bots; these are not the bots you are looking for. I do not mind the bots, they pop on my land and then pop back off; at least they can be banned if you do not want them.

    Camping is fine, but having traffic be the only indicator that a place is popular is very narrow; additional input from the avi’s would make things more helpful. Maybe a star rating system along with a wider catagory listing and selectable variables for what is the top 10,20,30… places as rated by reviews/stars. Let the avi decide how to filter out searches, one star, two star, and let them list as many as they like.

    All this talk is just examples of what can be added/changed; there are so many possabilities but limited resources for LL to work on everything.

    I would like to see LL at least add additional catagories for searching to help narrow down results. I am getting tired of seeing things listed that have nothing to do with what I am looking for. Need a BS filter for lots of the ones people place, hard to find good honest ones.

    Would be nice if the residents worked together to make a (non-profit) white/yellow pages for SL but you could have a commercial section also sponsored by whomever wants to pay for the space.

    /end babble

  24. Vanya Rennahan says:

    lol@ BC….I concur. Randomizing the results is a good solution, that is until someone decides to break their TP landing point into 16 little parcels. I think there will always be a way to cheat the system.

    Can we also have a vote on banning BLING from SL? Pleeeease

  25. I agree that “BOTS” &\OR Camping should be removed. speaking as a retailer, I never rent Vendor or store space on a Sim that has even 1 camping site or traffic over 10 000 (when I am the only avitar on the Sim). I am not the only Retailer judge Rental spots in this way. apparently Most others do as well. I feel sorry for the Noob Retailers with Solding Products wasting what Little $L they might have on areas that have no bennifit to thier Business what so ever.

  26. Oryx Tempel says:

    @17: My suggestion is to mandate linking all alts with a main account, like WoW does; record only one instance of a logged in user, regardless of how many alts/trafficbots that user has logged in. Let’s face it, it’s not camping that’s the problem. It’s the bots: the campbots and trafficbots that skew the numbers.

  27. katrina says:

    I know ya’ll hate campers, but…ever think not every resident
    -can afford to buy lindens
    -has the skills to build
    -has the skills to create clothing/textures
    and so on…

    alot of campers take what they’ve ‘earned’ and spend those lindens in stores…maybe in your store.

    I own a store, my traffic is very low, but I still get sales. Not everyone uses those numbers as a deciding factor on where to shop, party, explore…

    I started out camping for lindens cuz i couldn’t afford to buy lindens then, and camping enabled me to buy clothes, textures (after i learned how to build from classes offered), land. Now, I’m a productive member of the SL community. So, please, quit with the ‘ban camping’ cuz it just may effect your sales in the end, and as far as the traffic goes, if you offer a service/product worth buying/paying for…people will buy/pay for it

  28. katykiwi moonflower says:

    Perhaps LL refuses to totally eliminate traffic because, without camping and bots, the number of accounts logged on would drop dramatically and LL would appear to be the ghost town it has become. Real user numbers would become clear resulting in further loss of corporate interest in SL.

  29. Vanya Rennahan says:

    I agree, a lot of big name places have created an almost “monopoly” on certain products in SL. The truely creative and unique items in SL, traffic or not, will still get their products out just by word of mouth.

    I am kind of liking that idea that poster #23 mentioned…a rating system. Coupling that idea with what Oryx mentioned, and it may work…. /me see hope in the future for SL commerce

  30. Please remove Popular Places page in search…. and change the ordering list in Places page to something else besides Traffic counts.

  31. Any rating system is going to be gamed by alts.

    How about ranking the search places tab by something that cannot be gamed to anyone’s benefit – the age of the parcel, with oldest parcels listed first. Established businesses get the benefit of sticking around as long as they have. Newer places would suffer a little, but as businesses come and go over time, it would work out. Bigger wouldn’t necessarily mean better, and stability would be rewarded. It’s imperfect as any other solution but it cannot be gamed to anyone’s benefit.

  32. Mel says:

    “Relevance Improved: Holding lots of events at a place no longer increases the relevance of that place in Search All results. ”

    I am sorry, but I am confused as usual. What is “Relevance” and how is it determined? Is it the same as traffic? If the number of people attending, and the number of events at a certain place does not increase “relevance?” What does? Is there a panel that ranks things. Or a person?

    This is a serious question so do not come at me about how dumb I am as someone always does. This is simply a question of word clarification and it sounds like someone who coined the word has gotten so used to using it that they forget about those who don’t have it in their SL vocabulary.

  33. sylvie matova says:

    @6 Mimi, you and others completely misunderstand the Google connection. Your profile will not appear in Google’s search on the internet.

    What LL have done is buy a Google search appliance. It’s just a server (or set of them) with Google’s software on it. It has no connection back to the Google on the internet.

    Many large companies buy them, just as they buy firewall, anti-virus and other packaged appliance boxes.

    It has no more connection to google than a toaster would. Apart from the badge on the front and their unique way of returning information for searches.

  34. Mel says:

    to #31… that might work if you used the group name instead of the place. People move all the time. So, if you move because you need more land, you would drop to the bottom even if you were established early.

  35. Sean Heying says:

    Ban camping or remove traffic from the search metrics.

    You have now banned:

    Sexual Ageplay
    Gambling
    Banking

    So bans ARE possible in YOUR world… Now get rid of camping. Lets make this game just like Real Life please.

    After camping goes we can work on removing escorts and fake churches, after all one can’t worship fake idols so how can one worship on unsanctified ground?

    Hmm, hang on, leave camping alone…. Ban the churches!

  36. Raudf Fox says:

    I think removing the traffic rating from the search would make life so much easier for all of us. I do get tired of seeing non-people standing about in places, lagging areas without contributing much to the world other than traffic.

  37. Broccoli Curry says:

    I’m really not very sympathetic about “not being able to afford to buy L$”, when you’re using a $1000 computer and $50 a month broadband connection, sipping on your $5 Starbucks whilst watching your cable TV connection.

    Second Life is not a “right”, if your finances are so tight that you can’t afford to drop $5 a month in for a little ‘spending money’ then perhaps you really need to reassess your priorities a little about wasting time playing a computer game.

  38. It is a disincentive to moving, yes. But not expansion – who says you have to have the one store in that location? You can buy more land in the sim but leave the main store with the places listing, and take advantage of the prims from the other parcels, or use a teleporter to get to the other sections if they are in different parcels. It would discourage complete moves to an island, however, although the island could function as the main store, and the old plot as a legacy store. There are options and ways to work around it that reward stability without impeding growth.

  39. Qie says:

    Making progress–that’s good. Traffic does need to be removed from any Search consideration, as soon as possible. At this point it merely distinguishes between Island and Mainland businesses (Mainland can’t camp as many trafficbots before the 40 avatar limit). Renders the Places search completely useless, and a complete waste of IBLs for Search All.

  40. Robert Galland says:

    Well, I don’t know about that Cristalle. I have built a successful business over the last 11 months and just moved to my own sim about a month ago. It was the success I built that allowed me to do so. Why throw me to the bottom because my old business is in a new sim? Though, I see where your heart is.

    I don’t really care for the traffic system myself and know many of my competitors have long used bots and campers. When I finally went to campers because I felt I had to to compete, my sales increased. Go figure.

  41. Robert, I’m not saying that you can’t move to your own sim, but you would need to keep the legacy store, at least for a while. Even so, if your sales regularly support moving to its own sim, then it should weather a change in its places ranking.

  42. Cocoanut Koala says:

    Put the new Search All tab as the LAST tab, rather than the first.

    That way, people who are paying for Classifieds will have a greater chance of having them seen.

    Otherwise, many players may not realize Classifieds exist.

    And get rid of those special few Classifieds that you plan to still show on the Search All tab. It gives them WAY too much special attention.

    coco

  43. Robert Galland says:

    Well, there are better ways, Cristalle, but you are right, I would not mind seeing the traffic system go. A rating system sounds better, but it is apparent at least initially how that could be gamed to, as people have pointed out. But hey, I know I do receive a great deal of sales the good ol fashion way….positive word of mouth.

    As to search, I am a little confused how the new one will operate myself. How does one gain “relevance” anyway?

  44. What are the better ways, Robert? A rating system that is easily gamed by alts? Traffic clearly has gone the way of the dodo thanks to alt farms. Visibility is important, quality is important, and so is selling what you say you sell.

    Ranking by parcel age cannot be gamed to anyone’s benefit – it would only be gamed to one’s detriment. It would kill alt farms, camping bots, and ridiculous naming of parcels with special characters or spaces. It would reward established entities, and does not preclude the shift to an island as a main store. It encourages keeping a little bit of land longer than you might normally keep it, however, but if sales are good enough to sustain a move to a significantly bigger parcel, then it should not matter in the long run whether or not you move – you’ve got word of mouth. And even then, it would balance itself out again in the future as other businesses exit SL.

  45. Well I TOTALLY agree with everyone to get rid of the traffic numbers. I am sick and tired of idle campers and bots giving bogus traffic numbers for crap clubs. Alot of people work very hard…teams of people actually and cannot even come close to those numbers legally. Would be better for improved search not including those numbers as well as word of mouth.

    GET RID OF TRAFFIC LL! Free Up 1/2 of your systems resources!

  46. jane says:

    Lindens, i look forward and be hopeful for the future! Sometimes the search will not display the right results for the search phrase. But i think that function is too different based on that large amount of spelling. So why google cant find several results even though google is larger and the most used search machine in the net. I wink with my eyelashes to Linden 🙂

  47. Robert Galland says:

    Making people keep a “legacy store” is just not attractive as it imposes extra tier requirements on a business and, frankly, my customers want to see my homes in one place. I just think it is a little too unfriendly to growth to suit my tastes. It also makes things harder than necessary and places an artificial barrier on on new businesses and their ability to climb in the search. Frankly, I would rather keep traffic.

    Anyhoo, I am more interested in how the new search works if anybody has some insight to lend.

  48. Montana Corleone says:

    Well, it’s great at seeing who are the rip off resellers and BIABs. Traffic is already being factored out as far as I can see. Removing classifieds is good as I see some people spamming that with multiple identical ads. Be nice if LL could fix the accented characters. Those in profile work okay, the ones in Picks don’t. I’m assuming you can filter out bots by the same criteria you use for unique residents so we’re not botted to death. All in all good progress.

  49. Martin Magpie says:

    @1 Ann for the win! Well said. WTG LL another fine improvement 🙂 Thanks! and Keep up the excellent improvements 😀

    Mar/Cat

  50. Dekka Raymaker says:

    Allowing Bots is as much as a disgrace as allowing unregulated financial rip off institutions. What will corporate companies think when they realise they have to compete against a cheat allowed by SL?

  51. Alesia Schumann says:

    By removing events from the things that have an impact on search, the Lindens are protecting two criteria that are dear to them and their profitability:

    1- The weight of classifieds in the results, which makes people pay so much for them.

    2- The weight of traffic in the results, and therefore the camping that makes so many people buy Linden dollars.

  52. To everyone claiming that removing traffic would reduce the amount of bots in SL, you’re being very short sighted. If “traffic” is removed, it will probably be replaced with some other mechanism to gauge the popularity of a parcel, which could also be gamed by bots.
    Xavier Tosung

    Totally agree, i hate bots i wish LL would make an LSL function to retrieve whether someone is logged in with a genuine Linden Lab client, that was at least we can crete stuff to get rid of them

    Won’t happen, for two reasons:
    1) Just because someone is logged in with the “genuine Linden Lab client” doesn’t mean they’re not a bot
    2) User agent headers can be spoofed.

  53. Frankie Antonioni says:

    A lot of people that use camping, use the money that they make to rent land, houses, or shops. So if you do away with traffic, you will end up hurting the SL economy. Also some of these people use the money they make to hire builders. And a lot of these are from third world countries, so without camping, alot of these people will not be able to play SL.

    As far as search being gamed, well what ever you do there are ways of gaming it. All you have to do is search for ESC, CSI, or Dell, so there are ways of gaming it, no matter what you do.

    Now why would anybody use search all, to do a search? If I’m searching for a place, then I’m going to search in places. If I’m going to search for a person, then I’m going to search people.

  54. Harwood Hax says:

    ok. few things here..

    1 – every time i search land sales, then click on one.. i crash. any ideas? also .. since the new “all” .. i havent been able to use search all old or new at all. ive talked with a few other people that have the same and different problems.. some cant search people, some places.. any ideas to the cause?? .. heres to hoping an update will fix it.. im currently in the market for a half sim, and REALLY want to keep an eye on everything possible with current events.

    2 – a few sidenotes… “I tend to believe that a google search engine is not going to help in a virtual world” … tell my stock in google that.. people laughed at me when i bought in … i laugh at them now.. (especially after the vacation i just took paid ENTIRELY from net earnings) dont underestimate what it can do.. really.. youd be suprised!
    another sidenote; read #23 ….. preach on sista davina.. worry less about whats going on and more about what could be done to fix it and the world would be a better place.. ~one life~

    3 – Love how the rich and wealthy want to get rid of traffic.. Sure, lets just follow the rest of the american media, and show advertising depending on how much a company or individual can AFFORD to pay for advertising. Hell, while were at it.. how about we just convince LL to do away with small buisiness and single owned buisiness all together… then you can put that 20,000L a week you spend in classified into buying more land bots… further insuring no one else can get good deals on things?? (are you kidding me??) i REALLY hope the faith i have in LL isnt ill-conceived and they can see through this.

    .. ok.. rant over..

    What im saying is traffic is sometimes the only way for some people to be able to advertise their services and sims… doing away with it will only make things that are already hard (i spend close to half my time working on my traffic (live music, events, etc.) on those people like me who cant afford 5 – 20k a week on a classified ad.
    were here too people .. the broke among us.. we work for a living and cant afford to spend $200 a week on a GAME… and realize that without us here to support YOU … some of the luxuries you like to have will be disappearing with these things.
    And NO, theres nothing wrong with the camping idea.. its actually a GOOD thing if done right. i myself use a zone camper.. let people make a few linden for walking around looking at my sim. Im happy to pay it.

    whats WRONG here is the inability of EVERYONE involved (not just LL) to take a stand against rules being broken.. wrong things being done.. heres a novel idea… tell people that when they are caught doing something wrong.. theyll be punished for it.. then FOLLOW THROUGH!!

    Outlaw bot programs that do nothing but harm to the community,

    Have someone (or a group) watching for alts and bot accounts.. AND BAN THEM!! ive played and worked for other MMO’s that have taken a stand against bots in general.. and you wouldnt believe how much better things got after the companies took that stand…

    Please LL.. youve done a great job so far in doing the right thing… banks, casinos..

    dont let us down now 🙂

    HH

  55. Pingback: This just in… « Are we not men?

  56. Camping would not go away 100%, but the people that use camping to game the places ranking would stop. They’re not using campers anymore, anyway – they are using farms of their own alts. Those alts are not renting land/houses or buying stuff.

    I’m sure that Money Tree Island / welfare island will still be around if traffic goes away, because they will continue to attract noobs to fill out their surveys, which is the source of their cash. And noobs will always look for free lindens, so I don’t think that the real people who can’t afford to put much money into the game still have options. And people who use camping as a legitimate source of advertising to get eyes on the products will still be around.

  57. Ralph Doctorow says:

    Does this fix the lack of a beacon when TPing to a sim that has a single TP hub?

  58. jefferey Heart says:

    The don’t want to remove BOTS and BOT usage because it INFLATES the numbers of people actually using the game. Looks MUCH better commercial customers and possible investors.

  59. Noisey Lane says:

    I think some people confuse campers with bots. Not ALL campers are bots – hell, if it weren’t for camping, we without credit cards and the ability to buy Lindens would remain paupers.
    I started out without a single $L and no weekly stipend since LL stopped paying those to noobs.
    Through spending a lot of my time camping, I managed to build a small nest-egg and open a store selling my original neko fashions.
    From that small beginning, I have opened several stores, bought some fabulous items from others and consider myself a contributing member of the SL community.
    On the other hand, I know of several sims where bots are located by their hundreds in sky boxes or holes in the ground. The owners of these sims employ all sorts of tactics to avoid being caught including invisible ceilings and security systems that eject the curious if you do manage to get too close. I have reported these to LL via the Abuse Report many times, pointing out the ToS violation but they continue to operate to this day.
    Obviously LL does not feel the need to observe its own rules and I think some of the reasons for this have already been stated in previous comments.
    I have considered sending a notecard (with photos of the bots) to all store owners in these sims pointing out the false traffic and that their rents are based on a total fabrication hoping these shops will vote with their feet and move out but (a) it’s hardly my place to do so (b) it will undoubtedly lead to grief and abuse by the sim owners which I really don’t need.
    I liked the idea @16 of one traffic count per unique visitor – this would instantly make bot farms that operate 24/7 obsolete.
    Bots are indeed a problem in SL but please make the distinction between legitimate camping and bot farms. Camping like Social Security in RL is necessary and the money goes back into the economy. Bots run by sim owners do nothing for the economy, use up valuable system resources and artificially inflate market rents.

  60. Lisbeth Cohen says:

    I’ve experienced something interesting the last two weeks. Just as an experiment, I’ve tried having an alt camp in skyboxes above my two stores to attract more customers. There have been absolutely no increase in sales, so it’s obvious to me that my customers at least, don’t go for traffic numbers when deciding to visit my stores.

    Maybe people don’t care as much for traffic numbers as we thought…? Myth busted – and experiment ended 🙂

  61. Lion Ewry says:

    I too am against the use of ALT armies to gain an advantage in SL through search. Inbound links for each alt can generate at least 13 links. People that won’t resort to it must hope that 13 real customers FREELY put the land in their pics and save a landmark simply to stay even on the search page.

    I refuse to belive this was the intent of the new Search and certainly not why it was made possible to have alternative accounts.

  62. Ann Otoole says:

    as i said in post #1, make bot use for inflating traffic a TOS violation. then LL enforces the TOS and permanently bans all those defrauding residents via inflated traffic with no recourse and no appeal.

    this leaves legit camping.

    see it is so simple to see who is using sleekbots. 20 or 30 connections from the same IP address? BANNED. end of story no recourse no appeal all assets taken and put back into the economy. only a few enforcements and the sleekbot app is history. while at it go ahead and ban people that make defrauding tools such as sleekbot. they are not needed in sl.

  63. Porsupah Ree says:

    Search ranking is, as we’re all keenly aware, a difficult matter. Google and their ilk spend a vast amount of time on trying to work out ways of improving results, not always very successfully.

    One aspect that might be worth trying is trusting your friends. Consider everyone could offer their opinion (good, okay, bad; or whatever granularity you liked) on a given destination – then the opinions of your friends could alter the rankings presented to you.

    It’s not an area I’m especially familiar with, but as I understand it, similar issues arise in the concept of “cloud of trust”, as mooted in P2P search engines – who to trust, how much of that level of confidence reflects on you, and how much can you in turn convey.

    This would be work for Linden Lab (=money out), but in the longer scheme of things, a source of revenue – a more useful search is one that’ll be visited much more often (=ka-ching!), not to mention simply helping people find what they’re wanting, in a world that still remains terribly fragmented in seeking out events, inspiring places to visit, or common interests.

  64. Balder Miles says:

    Well…atleast you can clear the ATM’s from the search…..

    Nice job LL…you managed to create a panic…

  65. JetZep Zabelin says:

    About this Traffic Discussion: Maybe just change the formulas used in calculating . Factor in UNIQUE visits per week

  66. Melanie Milland says:

    I’m all for getting rid of traffic and the popular places page – none of those places are popular!
    However, bots are totally legit, and do many things not possible otherwise.
    Fully automated group invites, high-granularity parcel-autoreturn, AI for information and entertainment, they have many uses.
    It is not bots that hurt the economy and search, it is the way “traffic” is calculated. If traffic is kept, unique avatars would be the best way to go, the duration of stay being unimportant past a few minutes.
    Almost all bots used in SL, which are not camping, serve a useful purpose.
    If any of you use SL Exchange, you will have had money paid to you by “Exchange Street”. Guess what: Exchange Street is a bot. SLX would not be possible without this bot. Many other useful things wouldn’t, either.
    Get your facts right, tackle bot camping, not bots per se, or bot software.

    Melanie

  67. coventina dalgleish says:

    A simple way to affect the use of bots to generate traffic is to count unique visits per day or even per hour this would force those who want to use bots to leave the sim every hour or so. Remove the time spent as it is worthless I would really be interested in how many actual individuals visit my stores. The traffic is meaningless in its current state. After a while you do learn to avoid those popular places, well unless you like lag.

    Better time could be spent plugging your massive memory leaks, something that has an eternal life in this game.

  68. Tim Gagliano says:

    I whole-heartedly agree with Ann Otoole and the first 3 posts. Time and Time again, places that used to be on the Pop list have been removed by these ALT/Bot Farms… why? I mean it seems that if you are a welcome center give you the right to undermind the businesses of Second Life. I applied as a LL Liason and was not selected because of my views on Campers/Alt/bot farms. It is a shame that the sims you work on crash or need to be reset constantly due to the influx of these people who make it a point to become rich by Camping. Before I am flamed and debunked because of the length of time it would take to get rich camping, I will say this. I know of many people who I have come in contact with over the last 3 months.. who do nothing but camp.. When will LL wake up and put a stop to the unethical practices of a few who make it hard for the hard working business people to actually become sucessful? These same people who put up these camper farms will then turn around and charge exuberant amounts of L for rent based upon traffic….. which is nothing more then campers who do nothing but slow the grid down…

    5:12pm today.. and there are 55K people online… LOL… for fear of getting into TOS trouble about wagering I have edited this line.. but I can bet and win that at least 30% of the 55K people online right now are campers/bots.

  69. ami lang says:

    There is no easy answer, but, if a consistant system isnt in place quickly, many businesses will fail because they cant get the word out they exist for people to visit while paying for the costs to stay open trying to grow, ie tiers, classifieds, events etc… Consistancy is the key to a winning system for most, no system is best for everyone, continuous changes and lack of LL support to those changes will cause many to fail and leave SL. Get a system, however imperfect and say ” Ok this is it, deal with it” all this wishy washy change here or there or back again only hurts people, and some of us have quite alot invested into SL!

  70. @ 11 Darrien,
    A realistic explanation would be that it is current standard practice in the search engine business not to mix organic search results with paid result, and always clearly identify sponsored results on top bottom and/or right side. If paid results were to show in the contextual results, you would end up on the long term with a paid advertising monopoly of the organic “free” search index by large companies. While Yahoo Search is involved in that to a minor degree, Google and other search engine’s role is to organize and make information available based on relevance, not based on the fat wallet and scale of companies. Non-profit and general public domain information would be deprived of showing at their fair “rank” value and search would loose its integrity and balance between open free information and commercial content. Mixing classifieds into “search all’ results would be viewed as fairly unethical and greedy from a search provider and destroy the concept of a balanced “easy-to-use free service that usually returns relevant results” which has proven to be a successful “search engine democracy”.

    Ideally Linden Lab’s Classifieds would need to evolve into a pay-per-click system like Google Adwords to define rank with a mix between contextual value, click through rate and price paid. But Yahoo only recently went from a “pay-for-ranking” model to a “pay- for-performance” one, following Google’s lead. It’s a complex transformation and Linden Lab is obviously not quite there yet. They would very likely need a third party provider to offer such back-end technology unless Google buys out Second Life…

    @33 Sylvie,
    Profiles will appear in Google’s search in one way or another if made available in search. They already do via a third party web site http://services.secondlife.network.marvulous.co.uk made available by SignpostMarv Martin. The fact that results are/will be available on the second life website makes them exposed to being found in a Google search indirectly. In that regard, Mimi is correct in her assessment of protection against showing in Google.

  71. Ann Otoole says:

    exchange street a bot? lmao. funny how when apotheus was debugging the new magic boxes he came over on exchange street and used my magic box for debugging. the convo we had certainly indicated exchange street was not a bot lol. exchange street owns the boxes apotheus uses for the comms to conduct business. thats not a bot.

  72. Karen Palen says:

    Don’t listen to the loudmouths who have nothing to contribute but bitching!

    The traffic metric is very useful in eliminating the “ego trip” sites from those that actually have something worth looking at!

  73. Melanie Milland says:

    @71: I have talked to bots, too. They have operators who can take over.
    Even landbots do. Many are built on modified clients, which allow full rendering.
    Still, ES’s payment function is automated, which makes him a bot. He’s online and working 24/7. Automatically.

  74. Grow says:

    Cant even log in :/ What ya broken now guys? :p

  75. Rob A says:

    Perhaps if LL slowed their frenetic pace and fixed existing issues instead of creating new ones, things wouldn’t be completely broken right now.

  76. Alesia Schumann says:

    LOL @ post 72. Looking at the Popular Places, I have to agree! I definitely think that places that offer free money and orgy rooms definitely have more to show than the dedicated people among us!

  77. Exchange Street is not a bot; it’s more of a trust account. ES has been there long before SL went open source. ES owns the objects which make payments. When objects pay out, it still says that the owner has paid you. You can’t tell whether it’s a person controlling the avatar or the person’s object that pays you.

    That said, there are still beneficial uses to bots. Automatic group invitations is the first that comes to mind. But bots to create artificial traffic are just a drain on the system in the aggregate, and something needs to be done about them.

  78. Montana Corleone says:

    Logins failing, and 8K people dropped of the grid in 2 minutes…

  79. Alicia Mounier says:

    Yeah and not a mention on the blogs. I’m sure it wasn’t something they were aware of. Maybe they are doing the downtime maintenance right now!

  80. Foxxe Wilder says:

    Logins failing here too… NOW I get some sort of message claiming RESTRICTED LOGINS!??

    /me wonders SERIOUSLY if old man Linden ain’t GWB in RL due to ALL THESE CONSTANT SCREWUPS

  81. Nacre Swindlehurst says:

    Here, here! Ban the bots. Bank the banks. Ban all accordions. Be all you can be. But let someone else decide what you can be. That way you don’t have to think about it.

  82. grow says:

    Lol erm… Now logins are disabled, I can log in. but I cant move through lag. even opening IM’s is lagged. I’ve not played in a long time but surely you cant broken THAT much stuff? Sorry, last post in the blog. dont wanna fill it up

  83. Beta X says:

    -missed it by one min… lol ty LL… buuuttt, hope it goes as planned for you in there and hope to see what going on and ty for catching whatever it is, as “technical issues” can have infanate meening (any programed device/application not working as designed or intended)

    not to be odd, but why choose a 10 message cap when there’s? descussions and people who pose one through 5 word off topic notes?

    well, consittering i myself am offtopic in the juggle of the limit cap, as we for years come down to the next open post to continue the discussion…

  84. Shai Khalifa says:

    I’m with 34 and 31. The longevity of a business is going to say a lot about their committment to sl and to their business, and to the people who come inworld.

    I agree it should be on business (group) or somesuch as many businesses as they expanded have moved to dedicated sims etc – as my business has. 5 O’Clock Somewhere has been going now for 15 months – and I only recently moved it to it’s own dedicated sim. I wouldn’t want all my hard work building up visibility knocked to the bottom of the list because I improved the experience for my visitors.

    I also applaud the demise of traffic relevance – I may have some hope now. I am yet to see what difference moving the Classifieds will have.

    …. and I’d like to see all land bots shot on sight

  85. Shai Khalifa says:

    .. oh, and one more thing

    Popular Places is simply a quick list for camping and sex joints.

    Says nothing about the truly beautiful places in sl that we all love to go and experience.

  86. Sapphire says:

    @27 said it.

    There are so many people who only make money in SL by camping and spending it back into the game and that is the grease that keeps this creaky economy going. Sure, bots suck, but if you don’t want to pay some company running bots for that extra advertisement of being high in the list all it takes is for you to be a responsible land owner. Kick afkers, move your camping areas around, do things that bots aren’t intelligent enough to deal with. Not ALL campers are bots.

    This is NOTHING that LL needs to be involved in if they care at all for players running their own economy. HA, wait a moment… Anyone who thinks that LL isn’t in this to make all the money they can is simply naive. Yet, while LL is looking for more of your money they are not thinking about the future (theirs or yours) at all.

    They want you to pay for advertisements, and whoever pays the most gets the most advertising. So rather than paying for the thousands of newcomers to SL to be able to afford their basic appearances and a few toys while boosting your traffic, you will soon get to pay LL directly for advertisement.

    This can only end badly for LL, as those newcomers who have no experience and have no way to buy new items either get bored and quit or get bored and start griefing because that is about the only thing of entertainment value that will be left in SL.

    Why even run events if traffic doesn’t matter? What’s really the point of all those clubs where people go to hang out every night with their friends in SL? This should kill those ‘traffic gathering’ spots off nicely.

    And what’s left? A virtual world full of nothing but shops with a few people scattered around it randomly? Oh wait, it’s still a haven for perverts and cybersex addicts. At least you’ll still have them LL.

  87. Lao-Tzu says:

    Not one Linden has chimed-in. This issue needs to be addressed and this blog is the only appropriate forum for an official response to the masses.
    Torley, I know you are out there . I know that the topic of Land Traffic and Bots are not your responsibility. But surely you have an opinion. What do you think?

  88. Argent Stonecutter says:

    Ranking by unique visitors is probably the best.

    Ranking by parcel age would be great for me, I’ve still got my “first land”, but it doesn’t seem terribly useful. You’ll just get people renting space from people who happen to have had their parcel a long time.

    But killing off traffic won’t get rid of the campers. Some people just sim hop, others bring up destinations on the map and collections of green dots look better for both of those.

  89. Lao-Tzu says:

    Back to the main topic. I want to thank LL for improving SEARCH. Folks, this is “kind of a big deal”. Scroll back up to the main article and click the podcast. This is a link to an audio of several Lindens discussing the new search. This is also the first of such podcasts so I am looking forward to hearing more. It is nice to know that the Lindens were also tired of the exploits Orgy room owners would use to sabotage search in order for their filth to appear on the front page of every search.

  90. Michael Timeless says:

    Just out of curiousity. Why not look for unique mac addresses. I somehow doubt that anyone is going to run that many separate computers to increase store sales. It should be a relatively easy manner to look for the same mac address of a given network card. At first I would just say look for unique IP address but some people share a network connection. The mac address is always unique.

    Not sure that killing campers is the way to go.

    As for legacy stores….hmmm, might be able to use a system similar to that used for SL Partners and transfer the stores “history” to the new store location.

    Just my 2L worth
    Mike

  91. Tegg B says:

    The people are speaking, GET RID OF TRAFFIC, listen to us.
    Over 1/3 the population are bots, the majority aren’t people looking for spending money in SL, they are farmers who goldfarm other games, it’s no coincidence the economys been crap for the last 6 months since their numbers started to climb, these aren’t residents, they are people who visit the account page to withdraw their money.
    Real campers should be glad, because once the bots go they will have more opportunity.
    And the thousands of other bots hammering away at the grid teleporting from sim to sim every few seconds are what causes much of the lag and certainly a lot of login dificulties, trying to login as 10,000 bots are autorelogging after any downtime.
    And when they are gone delete any account that doesn’t log in a 2 year period, there’s so many good names taken from us that real residents have to have numbers for names.
    Ban Botting or at least restrict it somehow. Why can normal residents only have 5 alts while others run 100’s.
    I’ll just requote what another concerned citizen said seeing I can not say it any better.
    Dear Linden Labs,

    More and more, Second Life is being harmed by three pernicious practices: Adfarms, camping bots, and traffic bots.

    Each of these issues affects SL on several levels. They use disproportionate amounts of resources, degrading the overall service and its level of performance. They suck money out of the economy without creating anything or providing any sort of service in return. And, in the case of adfarms at least, they make the SL landscape ugly.

    Using camping bots to sit on someone’s camp chairs is bad enough. It takes income away from individual newcomers, who aren’t yet skilled enough to create and sell content. Some of the people running camping bots are running whole armies of them, making a significant Real Life income by sucking money out of SL. This is hurting Linden Labs as much as it harms Residents, because it takes away money that business owners might otherwise use for expansion.

    Traffic bots are another problem. Recently, we’ve seen the practice of using 30, 40, or even up to 80 bots crammed into a hole, or lofted in a skybox, for the sole purpose of inflating an operation’s traffic figures. The people running traffic bot farms aren’t sucking out money, but they are distorting Search results and creating lag problems for visitors to the sims where they operate.

    Ad farms don’t work, as advertising. Few if any reputable SL businesses use them to advertise — they know that most residents boycott businesses who use adfarms. But the ad farmers set their 16 square meter eyesores for sale at extortionate rates. If their neighbors want any sort of peace or attractive scenery, they’re forced to pay the ad farmers to remove their eyesores. Some ad farmers also use temp rezzers in their small plots. Like the traffic bot farms, this creates lag for everyone.

    Ad farms, camping bots, and traffic bots: These are three of the five major issues facing Second Life (the other two are griefers and grid stability issues). Linden Labs may not want to deal with these issues; the creation of bots, in particular, might seem as if it’s helping to make SL look good, with more registered users, more concurrent users. But they are parasites. Like all parasites, a heavy infestation can kill the host. As a mentor, I’ve already seen newcomers encounter these practices, and leave SL in disgust when they learn that LL will do nothing about them.

    LL has always taken a “hands off” attitude to the problems, on the grounds that they are resident to resident disputes. I would suggest that these problems are more than that. The people who practice them have found loopholes…in the technology, or in the rules, and are exploiting those loopholes to the detriment of all. Just as it’s LL’s job to fix bugs in the software, it’s your job to plug up these loopholes.

    Solutions to all of these problems have been put forward over and over again; I won’t re-hash them here. But it’s time and past time to take action. Get rid of the parasites, LL. Before it’s too late.
    __________________
    Lindal Kidd

  92. mimi says:

    @ 33 silvie

    The profiles in the new ALL search ARE on the internet. Yours in on http://world.secondlife.com/resident/01720d4f-59fc-4893-bf60-4596796e14ea

    It will only be a matter of time till google picks up the webpage and adds it to their browser. Google automatically scrolls the web and adds webpages that are linked by any other page. So its just a matter of time till its there.

  93. Tegg B says:

    Sorry camping doesn’t keep the economy going, PEOPLE PUTTING RL MONEY IN KEEP THE ECONOMY AFLOAT. And at the moment their influence is being severly hacked by the goldfarmers taking it out with 100’s of campbots controlled by kids working for a bowl of rice a day like they do to WoW and CoH and other games online.
    The free ride is going to be over soon, time to invest or create in a world if you like it.
    RL stores don’t pay people to sleep outside their bussiness so they can afford to buy beer……………………..

  94. Aphrodite Tagore says:

    I would really love to know what relevance means in terms of the new search as it compares to and contrasts with traffic. Relevance is a search result classification; traffic is that occult and strange number arrived at, I am told, by some factor and the number of vistors and the number of each tenth of an hour a visitor remains on the parcel.

    There is a strange tendency with the linguistics in the LL-SL community that lead to a disparate nomenclature that is confounding. For example, the mixed up confabulation between character/avatar/agent/resident/user.

    I would ask relevant lab personnel to state what they mean when they say “relevance” in regards to search, and then, further elaborate on how the search engine is really ranking relevance, and finally, how does relevance relate to the order of displayed results.

  95. U M says:

    Oh well there is always the next update.:/

  96. Sparkle Junot says:

    hmm, who cares?
    between crappy stability, crappy database management (and lack of security), and finally loss of L$’s from the bank runs, I’m almost through with this sorry excuse for a game.

  97. Sixteen Squaremeter says:

    hi there, will you also (finally) fix that 16 sqm parcels don´t show up in the new all search? Or at least state something official as to why it´s not? Understand the implication of ad farms swamping the search with keywords, however some clarity would be much appreciated on this matter.

    Thanx and good luck with the fixes tonight, sl´s been borked to hell again

  98. nomoresecrets says:

    offtopic here , but ontopic for the bank-thread:

    Anshe Chung has already buyed a bank-license in another virtual game (Entropia Universe ), do dont wonder……

  99. Moneca Sands says:

    I agree that the new search has intriguing possibilities. I like how your stuff shows up all over the place and how anything to do with you or your business will show up if specified. What I don’t love it the mystery behind the results and I take issue with how some needn’t bother with paid ads because they are showing up in search early on and consistently yet it is no reflection on the quality of their product(s).

    We have a neighbour that is using camper bots and the simm is increasingly laggy and despite the expense that this neighbour has gone to use these fraudulent critters it doesn’t appear as tho it is improving her real traffic that spend actual lindens. By contrast, we have no campers or bots, a quality product and we get reasonable traffic due to WOM and a hefty weekly classified ad committment. And yet we are just finally starting to move up in the relevance results…and yeah where the heck were we when search only went to page 5?

    Besides relevancy perhaps search could take into account something such as transactions or lindens spent in your store? Tho chances are this could be gamed somehow and be as helpful as all this phony “traffic”. As for actual noobs camping for lindens – I think what the heck if it wasn’t a factor in search results. I do prefer the systems where people visit your sim and receive a small gift while shopping as opposed to gangs of idle campers doing little but draining someone’s account of lindens and creating unnecessary lag.

    My 2 lindens worth…

  100. SL Player™ says:

    BIAB crap items ruins search 😡
    TP to some place thinking it’s what your looking for and find out it’s old free junk renamed in a cesspool of crap.
    There isn’t anything newer residents will sell now days or do to get $$
    From hacking to land swindelers (thinking all her parcels are rare) to content thievery all for the all mighty buck.
    Greed has reared it’s ugly head here in SL
    It’s become a money making machine and people are going to milk what ever they can from whom ever they can.

  101. Lucky Raymaker says:

    There is difference between Bot Campers and Real SL Resident Campers.

    I am paying about 12.000 LD to those campers in order to increase the traffic. There is no other way at the moment.

    Removing traffic statistics is an option.

    Search Listing should also put SQM of the area in the ranking calculation or Number of Landmarks has been set to specific location.

  102. Tempest Homewood says:

    Bots are not to the advantage of every camping spot. I work as a Helper at HippiePay, often the #1 in Popular Places searches. You know what? We helpers waste more time and energy (and the owners’ RL money) banning bots than we do on naked noobs, armed griefers, and spammers COMBINED.

    I get a bit tweaked when I hear some of you say, without considering the implications for noobs and some businesses, “ban camping.” Lucky’s and Katrina’s posts above were two of the more nuanced responses and I thank them for that. I was just getting mad reading the other “I hate campers” responses and had to stop reading.

    Tegg B notes that only people putting RL money into the economy keeps SL afloat. True at one level, because someone must grease our wheels, but then as when the Fed prints more bills, the Linden Dollars circulate. For noobs, camping provides money that ends up going to merchants. Bots are another matter…

    Bots suck L out of our camping places and mostly out of world. They keep our regulars–yes, residents who actually talk and goof off and get into dressing like hippies–from earning money dancing. Bots never do our surveys and thus don’t move up to our premium group. We ban them and 5 more come back.

    Some of us who work at camper-heavy sites do not favor bots taking advantage of our generosity even if it moves us up in popularity under search. Sometimes that little thumbs-up sign on the map feels stuck up my butt…

    The best way to solve this would be to have LL limit the number of ALTs from any particular IP. This would limit the impact of gold-farmers in SL. We’ll never be rid of them…but I’m not sure I want to punish Chinese kids, just make it a bit tougher for the abuse to be so flagrant.

  103. @ #37 – Broccoli Curry

    I’m glad to hear someone else thinks the same way I do about the quickly-thrown-in ‘I can’t afford linden’ that too many people use. Often spoken/typed by the same people who chat while sipping their coffees and bragging to me about their new mustang convertibles, etc. lol.

    There’s legit folks, namely the international users who get blocked when the credit card system for buying $L fails for them, I’ve met many of them, but the majority of average residents could find the 5 bucks a month if they wanted linden badly enough.

  104. Istephanija Munro says:

    It isn’t camping that’s bad it is the lazy landowners who don’t care who is generating the traffic. From day one i started “buying traffic” i was making sure they socialize with each other, checked up on them regularly, gave some of them security tasks. They had so much fun that most of them spent 4 to 6 hours actively on the bench to have fun chats with their friends. Those are real people, I have even created them a mini mall where they went cam shopping and these sales been actually good. 3 of them are fashion designers now, 2 others joined together and opened a club and a couple of others are on a good way and are one of my best customers!

    For all those who condemn camping blindly should remember how it is to start here in SL, nobody gives a newbie a job unless he/she is 1 month old, not everyone has a credit card and others don’t want to spend RL money here which is a healthy approach.

    Buying traffic is okay when it is done with responsibility. Bot owners are cheaters and landowners that allow bots as well. It is easy to spot a bot if one really cares about! So don’t smash the poor newbies in the face who need camping to grow, smash the cheaters.

  105. Tim Gagliano says:

    @ 72. You said “Don’t listen to the loudmouths who have nothing to contribute but bitching!

    The traffic metric is very useful in eliminating the “ego trip” sites from those that actually have something worth looking at!”

    Actually I am not “Bitching” as you put it. I am stating a fact… what does 30% (or whatever percentage) of avi have to contribute to the SL society if all they are doing is camping in 1 place.. no chat, no movement.. just taking up space if all they are doing is sitting on a dance pad or camping chair… Where is the contribution?? To me that is hogging valuable grid resources.. So no, I am not bitching. Have a look for yourself.. Take a look at the pop list… go to all those places… hardly any unique movement or chat.

  106. Miyu says:

    i agree with all the people saying to ban that bots from sl or make it a TOS violation to use them. BUT as i run a little shop, not big but enough to make a lil’ bit money to spend on sl and having campers up there to increase my traffic is something i can afford. I can’t afford to set classifieds like the big store owners with 100.00L or more so the little shops need the traffic in search to have a little chance to be recognized.

    And for sure will the population drop radicaly if Linden Labs removes traffic from search cuz ALL campers will go. So no more basic account holders camping to make money and leaving the game. NOT ONLY bots will go, normal basic account holders too.

    And even i’m not really a big friend of all that not paying people, they spend also a not less part of money in the second life economy.

  107. Miyu says:

    sorry, i meant 10.000L (tenthousand in words) lol

  108. Storyof Oh says:

    A point on google search….names posting in sl blogs appear in google along with the posts…..be nice….be very nice 🙂

    Plus a maybe naive question on bots…does each bot/alt require a separate computer to sign in? multiple sign ins on a typical domestic system wont work…..multiple machines on a typical home internet connection sucks power totally…..if people are dedicating systems and whole networks to bot farming someone needs to get a life maybe….

  109. meagen Zehetbauer says:

    This is kinda off subject but regarding the outage today… I know a little of computers and such – but why cant there be a backup grid that can be used while the updates and maintenance is going on. After all we are spending our money in SL and there is no way to get it back when we loose out land rental time durring outtages.

  110. Argent Stonecutter says:

    @104 Istephanija… “It isn’t camping that’s bad it is the lazy landowners who don’t care who is generating the traffic.”

    The fact is there’s no game-theoretic reason for landowners to care.

    You’re apparently playing the game the way it should be played, YOU don’t need camping, and if camping was banned (and LL *could* do that) you’d do what people used to do, hang out on their land, chat with the visitors, build up a community…

    And since you don’t actually need camping you don’t need to defend it.

    “For all those who condemn camping blindly should remember how it is to start here in SL”

    I remember how it was to start in SL. You signed up, and got 7 days free, then you had to pay $10.00 to $72.00 and got your initial purse and a stipend, and unless you just sat around doing nothing you got an additional reputation bonus in no time. If you got a premium account and stuck with it, the guy who recommended you got a bonus as well.

    Then they made it free, and removed verification, and every griefer and trafic spammer got a zillion alts, the userbase increased by a factor of 10 but the number actual living breathing users increased by a fraction of the amount, the value of the Linden went into freefall, so LL killed the Reputation bonus and the Basic stipend ‘cos a bunch of “entrepreneur” types in the forums insisted they had to try and hang onto the Premium stipend, and then they had to nerf that, and kill dwell bonuses. And that didn’t stop camping, and so now everyone wants to get them to kill traffic to stop camping… but it won’t, because it’ll still be worthwhile making sure you have plenty of green dots on the map…

    But at least they could do it to make search work better.

    Anyway… I’m not condemning camping “blindly”, I’m doing it with eyes open.

    When you start off in SL you get a free avatar that doesn’t actually need to spend a dime to do pretty much anything you want to do in SL. You go through the Linden freebie store and collect Torley’s yellow and green collections and the Velvet Boy and the rest of the good stuff (and if you miss out yo go back to the public island and pick it up). Then you go to NCI and collect your free stuff there, then on to Vienna Freebies and the Free Dove and Yadni’s Junkyard to get clothes and avatars and gadgets and everything else.

    This isn’t Warcrack or Evercrack or even ‘There’, you don’t need to fish-farm to get clothes upgrades, a newbie starting of in SL today gets a better deal, a better avatar, better clothes, than I did when I had to actually pay real money just to get started. So don’t tell me that I don’t remember what it’s like.

  111. Aniela Szondi says:

    I am glad to see they are people dont wanting bots and similars on SL. The first time I pointed it out at SL foruns, I was crucified by bots defensors (http://forums.secondlife.com/showthread.php?t=228012&goto=newpost) and, the worst, even encouraged to do the same.

    I would like to point what I already saw regarding lindens going out SL. I already saw people selling lindens cheaper to have money in real life. That means we have a black market going on too. I dont need point out the dammages coming in, everybody knows what does black markets over economy.

    I know amazing owners, I am impressed what they do on their lands to have traffic, they are very professional and creative: bots are not welcome, camping is only for real residents.

    So, it’s possible make SL a very nice world.:-)

  112. EmilyC Carnell says:

    Removing traffic will mess up the way secondlife runs at the moment. For those who don’t know what traffic does, traffic dictates the amount of lindens sim owners can charge businesses for renting vendors. Traffic can mean more expose to businesses/advertisers. It’s just like television shows–the more viewers, the more advertisers.

    Someone suggested having searches ordered alphabetically or to the age of the business… Those are both ignorant ideas. Either you order them by traffic popularity or by the lindens patrons spend at the businesses on the SIM. Traffic functions as a way to shape the economic competition. Traffic motivates owners to brainstorm about ways to draw in more customers and patrons. And camping is sometimes the negative effect.

    Many people suggested that Secondlife get rid of camping. I don’t know about you, but I started out as a newbie camping for most of my lindens. Eliminating camping would hinder newbies from earning lindens to start out with.

    Some people simply don’t want to pay for the game–why are people criticizing those who aren’t paying for the game? I don’t pay for the game, but I do work to earn my lindens–I host events at a club and I model. People who don’t pay for the game are active contributors to Secondlife economy, and if you doubt that, then you should meet more people like me. Paying doesn’t make you a big-shot.

    And if you’ve read correctly, Secondlife isn’t banning banks. They’re still going to let some banks operate if they provide proof from the government (or what not) that they can actually provide the interests they promise.

    When you guys talk about bots, are you referring to the avatars that don’t answer while they’re camping? Some people leave their avatars camping while they take naps or what not. Do I think camping is a fair way to attract traffic? No. I dont think it is. Camping inflates traffic and is deceptive. But should it be eliminated? No.

    Secondlife banned gambling and age-play because they voilate some real life laws. Secondlife let banks operate as long as they did until people were complaining about faudent claims. Secondlife has said that they relied on residents to make their own decisions about where to risk their money–that their judgment was their own. If you knew the risk, would you invest? SL banking is not like RL banking in the US. It’s not insured by the government. If it crashes, you can say bye bye to your money.

  113. Argent Stonecutter says:

    PS: to protect your land from ad farms, one-way invisiprim panels do a pretty good job of hiding them, and if you don’t know how to make them you can grab some free-top-copy in the southwest corner of Noonkkot: I set them up to protect the Coonspiracy there from the ad farm to the south. They’re free to copy.

    It works even better in Windlight.

  114. Argent Stonecutter says:

    @112 EmilyC: Keep traffic ratings, but base it on the number of unique visitors per day or week or whatever. Don’t load it by visiting time… once someone’s been in the parcel for one minute, they’re worth one traffic point the next time traffic’s calculated. Let Linden Lab figure out how they want to define unique, they don’t have to reveal it… I would recommend IP address because the MAC address can be trivially spoofed and doing it by account would just make the bot farmers teleport their bots from parcel to parcel adding to the lag.

  115. Deeka Hold says:

    COPY from 16:

    [… ]Traffic should equal unique visiters not minutes

    Totally agree.

  116. Aodhan McDunnough says:

    Remove traffic counter … no matter how you design it, it can be gamed, and all we get is LAG.

  117. Leila Larkham says:

    #37 The ability to pay may not be the deciding factor of people without verified accounts… it could be that they have no desire to have their financial information on a computer or perhaps they tried and Lindens botched the transaction to the point of a credit card freeze.
    Also have you ever considered how many people may be on fixed incomes in this game due to disabilities and this may be their only form of entertainment? Camping is the only form of income for many new citizens but please let’s realize this money is then put right back into the world normally for skins and clothing so they can get hired by others.
    What do people hate more in this world campers or a noob appearance? I hear complaints about both. Settle it then and have everyone start with 5000L for skin and clothes, then no camping and no noob appearances but Im cetain that wont make people happy either. LOL

  118. U M says:

    Tim you know better then look at the top population sites. They nothing. They have no real meaning in the terms of “TRAFFIC” Traffic nothing but a measure that says how many alts are and or BOTS that are online. LOL you know wvwn dance clubs are running bots as dancers as well……

    Usagi M sashi

  119. Milo Bellow says:

    Meh

  120. Barbie Cheney says:

    I just think if LL would stop the FREE accounts, alot of SL problems we stop. (Alts/bots)i know people who have as many as 40 or more and this is absurd!
    Give them the free trial for 30 days then pay $9.95. no pay, no play.
    The camping thing all in its self i dont think is bad. I was once a camper/slingo playing avi. Its all the greedy people who have access to a few computers who make alts and take up all the good camping spots (LoL) part of the bad name not to mention it breaks up friendships and or parnternships that has lasted a long time.
    Anyways, if you or parents can afford a computer and internet connection, then you can afford $9.95 to play in SL.
    And the whole kid thing. WTG LL!!
    Children have no place in SL even if it it 18 + playing them. Pixel or not , the REAL world is full of sickos and im sure many are in SL and this just helped feed their sick minds.
    And, why have teen grid if 18 + are allowed to portray as kids??

  121. Ishtara Rothschild says:

    “Classifieds: We are removing classifieds from the main body of the Search All results. They will still appear in the sidebar on the right.”

    Well, I’m paying you US$3000 a month to have my classified ad listed in the main body of search. If it doesn’t show up there anymore, I can save that money. Great 🙂

    Seriously, no one looks at that little sidebar on the right. If there’s no visual eye catcher, people will scan the search from left to right. On the left are camping bot places (those lag factories don’t pay you a dime for advertising), groups, even avatar profiles.

    People name their group “Buy Product X Here”, fill the group with their alts and these groups get listed in a better position than the classifieds that we pay you for. Or they advertise through their profiles for free, using key words that classifieds get deleted for. Do you need all the new fake accounts more than money?

    Please consider moving the sidebar to the left and list classifieds first. Or enhance them visually – white text on black ground, it looks like the obituary section. People will prefer links in friendlier colors. Perhaps black text on yellow? Or add small images to the classifieds sidebar, at least for the top 3 classifieds in each search. You have to give your advertising customers some sort of edge over the camping grounds and spam groups, or paying for ads becomes pointless.

  122. Miyu says:

    The fact i think is not just the camping, bot or traffic discussion, it’s the WHO needs to push traffic with some methods that aren’t correct.

    Sure there are many land- or business owners out there that don’t care about how they get their traffic but if you remove that all you also hit that land/business owners that take care about the HOW. Not every biz or landowner is bad just because he runs a biz or rents out land/vendor space. Sometimes i really think it’s just the jealousy of some peeps cause some others are able to run a biz, build stuff or script and sell it.

    If someone pushes traffic with just bots cause to rent out his vendor space for more money the renters will for sure step back pretty soon if they don’t sell anything on that place. And some other easy way to get them back on the ground is simply to avoid this places.

    The next thing is quality will sell the stuff much better than any traffic counts you can get. I’ve never seen stores like Last Call, ETD, Celestial Studios or also Naughty Island on the top ranks of the traffic counters but don’t we all think their stuff is amazing?

    And yes, camping is a good way for new people to get money and to spend it in the economy. Sure you can work for your money as well BUT first you have to be hired. I also got my 1st high quality skin with camping money as well as my 1st real good clothes and than i got hired from a club but not before. Now i run my own little biz and give with the campers on my store something back to the economy.

    Anyways there a view ways to avoid bots campin on your place and hell, not every avi not talking to you is a bot. You can’t ignore that there are much more people out in the world not talking english for example, the USA isn’t the only country on our planet and english not the only language. Perhaps they simply don’t understand you. Ever asked yourself that question?
    And sometimes they ‘park’ their avi to camp for L and that’s for sure not illegal.

    Think about that before screaming ‘ban everything’ cause almost the half of all the people complaining about that i gonna meet for sure in some well known clubs in SL using bots to push their traffic. Complainig about it but staying on that places. Simply something i need to laugh about, sorry

    Greets to all and i’m not a native english speaker. lol

  123. Electron Cleanslate says:

    All of this work on search is all well and good but when is Linden going to give us back what many of us need–the two tiny indicators for lost packets and bandwidth that were in the upper right corner.

    These indicators are now replaced by the useless search block. The jira vote shows that many residents used these indicators that were taken away by the obsessive search team who appear ignorant of resident usage patterns.

    Not all of us have steady bandwidth connection so these two indicators were vital to best enjoyment of SL. Those residents and techs living in crowded big cities with fiber optic connection will probably not understand what I am saying so don’t comment unless you know what you are talking about and experience bandwidth variance.

    Read the jira VWR-3156 vote Lindens and get that search team under control and give us the tools we need not what obsessives think we need.

  124. Angel Hall says:

    I have read from post 1 to the last of it and i agree with what so many said, camping is not the problem here, its the people who abuse it. lazy landowners do and even residents themselves do

    Lazy land owners: i.e the owns who build a place and think yeah i have the linden to give out to it all out on camping and doesn’t bother if they are real campers as long as the traffic is coming
    i have been to a where a place with about 50k traffic not even a single soul was there to be found so i got very curious and wanted to see what s above in the sky as the guy disabled fly so one way or the other i managed to get to this place where there was all bots i took a picture of it and imed the owner out of anger to say he is a cheat but he doesn’t care. so if people can get so high on a traffic just for doing nothing its very sad for those who work their butts off just to make their place known even if it gets known by the unique guest they have they are still low on traffic why the one who can hang like 30 bots in the sky gets all the traffic.

    there is nothing wrong with camping if the land owners at least check who and who is camping, and yet there are residents who have more than 7 alts in one place camping which is very unfair to the one paying. the only way that is best to have camping and make it fair is if the camping have t have a specific group that only he or an autorized staff can add new residents who like to camp and earn some money.

    then bots i don’t know how that is allowed in sl but what is the fun in how many residents are loged in when 80 percent of them are not real residents who make the world go round order than just bunch of bots placed or hidden somewhere in the sky.

    as for traffic that i support can go does not mean when there is no traffic sl will not be busy the real residents will still hang somewhere at least its not something of cheat or fake.

    Then popular places thats just a rip off, someone mentioned popular place is the list of orgy and camping places and thats very true there is nothing beautiful about those place or popular about it, its laggy its horrible looking and nothing is genuine about it.
    search can be on the randomly or alphatbetical order which can be done as in if you click the order it can change from all later words from a -z looking for place starting with B click and it rearranges the letters from B so and so forth.

    and still this is just my own point of view i hope LL labs put this into concideration and events can still be hosted, event have been fun in many ways having differient type of crowd people buying clothes to dress up for event is always a way to help designers make their cash too. even if traffic goes i will still host event at my club cause its fun and keeps the place busy.

    i wouldn’t want this forum to pass me and LL don’t forget we need more group space, cause with so many groups in sl and only 25 groups you can join is not enough the minimum should be 50 and above.

    to me i personaly appriciate the work and effort being put in trying to make sl better and stable its about time to make bussiness owners in sl at least those that are working so hard have a fair trade.

  125. Tinker LaFollette says:

    Don’t do away with Traffic/Dwell; if it can be measured honestly, it’s a useful metric.

    The problem with Traffic as a metric is that buying Traffic is cheap. The solution is to make it expensive. The way to do that is to only count traffic by Premium account holders.

    (And even if some consider it worthwhile to game the system at US$72 per year per bot, it at least means more revenue for Linden Lab, and the bot farmers will be paying for the system resources they consume.)

  126. Miyu says:

    @ Barbie (120)

    i agree in some terms to what you said and paedophilia should be banned from SL in any circumstances BUT what is a kid avi?

    i’ve been banned from a club cause of playing a ‘kid’ avi. you ask the why perhaps and i can tell you that pretty simple. I’m someone that likes her SL avi close to her RL person and unluckily i’m just 1.52 meters tall. That body height will say you in sl it’s a kid cause all the other chicks are unrealistic 2.20 meters tall which is completly nasty in my eyes.
    But the body height isn’t the only thing that makes you a kid. And why not should have a family with kids if it’s possible to marry someone in SL and being pregnant? Have you ever seen someone born with a height of 1.80 meters? Nobody complains about kids in games like ‘The Sims’.
    It’s not the possibility to play kids to complain about, it’s the responsibility of the people doing it and to report that people to LL who does it the wrong way like some sickos on SL do.

    In RL you also don’t ban for example all males driving cars just cause they produce more crashes than females

  127. Angel Hall says:

    and counting traffic also by the time and minutes doesn’t look that good some places get enough guest who are just buyers shop and go or visit hang around and go that should make up the traffic not the amount of people that sits there long thats why now everyone is using bots to do that avoid paying campers

  128. Ishtara Rothschild says:

    #51 “The weight of traffic in the results, and therefore the camping that makes so many people buy Linden dollars.”

    Camping prevents people from buying L$. Why would campers buy on the LindeX if they get money for free? The land owners earn good money with high traffic numbers and don’t need to buy L$ either. Not to mention that a large percentage of campers are their own alt accounts.

  129. DanielRavenNest says:

    Gaming the System:

    – Counting links from residents’ picks alone can be gamed by making lots of alts and adding your place to their picks.
    – Counting sales can be gamed by having your own alts buy stuff.

    Counting unique visits and picks from “payment info used” accounts only would be much more expensive to game, especially with a limit on how many alts can be tied to a single payments source. For example, you can be allowed 5 alts on one credit card, after that you need to pay $10 each to register more of them.

    Sure, that devalues visits and picks coming from honest, real players who happen to not have the resources for a paid account. For most places, the proportion of links from paid and free accounts should be about the same, so that the relative rank in search is the same. You just have made it more expensive to use massive numbers of free alts to affect the search results (which is what bot farms do now).

    Im not as concerned about paid camping as bot farms. The owners of a place have to spend real money to pay those campers. Its just an alternate form of advertising, instead of paying a lot for a classified, they pay a lot for traffic points. Since the new search only counts traffic as one of the factors in relevance, traffic points are worth less, and thus paid camping should decrease overall in the game. I expect to see more “door prize” systems, where people get a one time gift for showing up, or are entered into a prize raffle (daily or weekly prizes given to someone chosen from the visitors to a place).

  130. Ishtara Rothschild says:

    #122: I run a business too. I think every business owner is able to pay for advertisements instead of plastering their sim with camping chairs. Camping used by businesses for advertising purposes is an abuse of a function that was meant to reward popular places, popular for their content and not for the money people get for sitting there afk and adding to the lag.
    If you run a mall, advertise. If you offer entertainment or interesting places to explore, let traffic speak for your place.

  131. Darien Caldwell says:

    @70: Thanks for taking the time to provide an answer. It does make the issue clearer, although I would have (and still would) prefer an official statement on why it was changed. Making changes and not stating why is simply arrogant. And nobody likes arrogance.

  132. Dark says:

    You want to help combat server lag?…LL should put a cap limit on script per parcel size… why is someone with a 1024 sized lot allowed to drop as many scripts as they like ….secondly ….put an inventory cap on free accounts. Limit them to 100 items in their inventory …we all know how they like the freebie crap(lol)…u want more then become a paying member..both those thigns i believe contribute to server lag.I agree about the bot problem..it is an unfair way to show numbers

  133. Titania Bracken says:

    I agree with the majority here, get rid of traffic. My partner and I own land with club, mall etc and we have no intention of having bots/campers on there to try to increase traffic, we want LIVE avs who will interect with others, but so many people are tricked by traffic being so high in other places, why should we feel pressured to follow suit just to get people in? We won’t do it but it’s not fair on us and others like us who don’t use campers etc, and its not fair on people who use traffic figures to grade a place before visiting to find its a false figure of actual visitors to the areas.

  134. Dark says:

    With the new search being implemented to its fullest after today there is no reason why we need traffic at all…EVERYTHING comes up in the new ALL search.
    Another thing i forgot to add in my earlier comment..why do private estate sims have the same ban limit as a smaller parcel size … i own a sim and would be happy to see the ban list upped to 1000 or even 500 for private estate sims.I think if you did something about content thieves it would make alot of people happy along with myself

  135. Miyu says:

    @ 130

    don’t worry, i advertise too and one camper with 3 sits on a 4k plot isn’t plastering i think, huh?
    Anyways i’m not here in sl to pimp my RL purse, i run my store to have the money to spend it here for stuff having fun and with that income i’m not able and willing to spend hundreds of RL $ for advertising cause the things i sell aren’t really expensive and i do it cuz of the fun i have to create something.

    Most of the people here forget about the fun and take everything much to serious. Sure you have to be more serious when running a business but if you think SL is only here to earn hard RL dollars on kinda easy way i feel sorry for you

  136. 'bob donut'- a camper says:

    I’m one of those ‘parasite’ campers who everyone seems to hate so much.. i have a free account and NO desire to pay RL money into SL (for MANY reasons..the primary one being its a CHALLENGE to ‘play’ this way).
    If camping wasnt there id have left SL after a week. i camp alot.. but when i dont camp i’m spending those L$ INWORLD.. on stuff for my av or uploading textures etc.
    ive seen camper bots too..and let me tell u OTHER campers hate them too! the points raised above about owners spotting camperbots are very true. some places i camp the owners dont give a *%^$ about the 10 or so similarly dressed AND named avs on their campers. BUT all campers arent bots.. so PLS stop the camper slagging:)
    also- ive introduced 3 or 4 RL freinds to SL.. they all have free accounts and whilst theyre not as addicted/hardcore as me they too spend their (camped) L$ inworld.. we dont give a toss about withdrawing our money from SL. if there were no camping these friends would have probably used some other form of online communication..yahoo messenger/icq etc etc ..and not bothered at all with SL.

    someone above said a good way round this is monitoring yr campers perhaps via a campers group.. this is a GOOD idea.. but i must echo their post– give us MORE groups !!

    oh ..the search..lol thats what this was about.. well from a ‘parasite’ camper’s POV.. ive ONLY just noticed the classifieds.. before the ‘new’ search they didnt seem to show up. i like the new search.. but PLS keep the ‘old search’ tab as well.
    ok im rambling now..ill stop…

  137. Rene Erlanger says:

    I read this whole blog with great interest.

    I like the idea of unique AV visitor counts and ditching the time factor related to existing traffic count.
    I also like Cristalle Karami’s idea of give extra weighting to longetivity to a parcel where it’s business is located.

    I own a Mall that was created 2 years ago (bought it 6 mths ago!) and we have never used camping or traffic bot devices and will continue along that path. Our traffic readings are relatively low when compared to other Malls which predominatly use such devices. If you were to use “Places” search and typed in “Shopping Malls”, I’d probably figure nowhere in that listing!
    Having said that, i have a 115 vendor spots…and they are 100% full as i type this message! How come?

    We know that “New ALL Search” doesn’t do Shopping Malls any favours…..and in “Places” search I’m low on the listing! The money i save from not using camping or bot systems i’m able to direct into meaniful areas of marketing which do help bring in genuine traffic to my Vendors. That said i believe the overriding success or longetivity of this mall is due to the HIGH quality of vendors present in the mall… and believe that to be the main contributor. I’m pretty sure word-of-mouth and exchanging Landmarks has helped here over time.

    I don’t have any Business-in-box type vendors and are ban them from renting a space at this mall inorder to maintain the overall quality of vendors present here. I’d rather see an empty vendor spot generating no income then rent it to a BIAB….and this is stressed in my group’s charter.
    So gaming traffic does not neccesarily lead to owning a successful shopping mall……time, effort, good marketing, choice of vendors most likely do!

    I also have a couple of commerical plots where i do use a couple of campers on each. I try my best to limit the time spent by any camping bot by banning their @ss and making sure that my genuine regular campers get their spots. Over time i have become friendly with some of the regular campers by having an ongoing dialogues. They to are helpful by informing me of potential greifer attacks or SIM issues…..so it’s a two way street!

    I’m against the use traffic and camping bots and SL and LL should take steps to banning them altogether.
    I’m not against genuine campers. They use their earnt money to purchase inworld products and thus recycle back money into the economy. I don’t see this as a bad thing.

    This blog has given me an idea though…that’s to create a role of “Camper” within my group and then set the camping devices (2 Guitarists, 1 chinese noodles merchant, 1 sculptur) to Group use only…if that’s possible. That way my genuine campers will always be guaranteed a spot on my 2 commerical plots…and camping bots won’t be able to hijack them. Hmmh…thats one for my “To do” list 🙂

  138. Pars Sands says:

    I am totally against the use of camper bots but on one of my Malls which is designed to have a village feel i have three pay dance pads round a small dance floor. They are there to attract more people to that area to give it a village square feel. Like a lot of newer Mall owners a lot of my tenants pay commission or I operate franchise stores in my Malls the percentage of rent paying tenants is less than 25% and they pay low rents because I want to attract specific businesses to my sites. A fair undistorted search system is vital to the success of SL and banning bots will help that but banning real avi campers won’t.

  139. Jeska Linden says:

    Thanks for the comments everyone, I wanted to clarify some of the conversations about relevance and traffic.

    In the new All Search, results are returned by relevance, which is a term which is used in the search world to describe a numerical score assigned to a search result, representing how well the result meets the information need of the user that issued the search query.

    In the new All Search, everything which is included in search is located on a web page, which is viewed within the Search All tab inside Second Life. We determine relevance based on how well a specific web page matches the query that was typed in, how close the multiple words are together, and how many inbound links there are to the web page.

    Inbound links are created by references in top picks, classifieds, landmarks, parcels and groups. We also create several pages with links to the top 10/20/1000 places, which does add to the relevancy of search for places with high traffic. To be clear, traffic is not the sole determining factor and we are hoping to continue to add other factors to help improve relevance as we go forward. Like all search engines, the relevance should also get better with time.

  140. Rene Erlanger says:

    Well Jeska…..New ALL Search or any other form of SL search will be more meaningful once you have taken the painful step of banning Camping & Traffic bots and just take it on the chin that the SL Concurrency reading will drop off by 20-30%. Alternatively you can revamp the meaning of traffic by excluding the time factor….and just count unique AV’s and limiting ALTS of any IP login.

    Take you pick, whichever is easier to do!

  141. Past ETA Time says:

    Well .. here we are again folks past the ETA time of the grid being up and not 1 post on we are on schedule we are opening soon nothing past the 6 hour window and no information.

    But hey i’m sure they are sorry for any inconvience !! * cough bs cough *

  142. Taff Nouvelle says:

    only 15 minutes late so far hmmmmm.

  143. Taff Nouvelle says:

    ah well, Phil got his emmy, did they shut the shop and all go on holiday ???

  144. Rex Cronon says:

    @ #90 “Michael Timeless Says: January 8th, 2008 at 10:08 PM PST”
    -is very easy to change the MAC
    @ #132 “Dark Says: January 9th, 2008 at 9:39 AM PST”
    -lol. r u jocking 100 items in inventory? if that happens where are people supposed to put things they buy?

  145. Martin Magpie says:

    @141 ….loading ( I got nuthin )

  146. Starfire Desade says:

    So… the search only got PARTIALLY fixed? I still have parcels that I pay to appear in search that are NOT appearing. I was so hoping that I would log in today and find them working, but they are not.

  147. Starfire Desade says:

    ps… not appearing in the new search all (which tends to be used as a default).

  148. A little off topic... says:

    hehe, LL are becoming more predictable that a TV soap. Just after the bank post, at least 3 posts to hide it and move it down. Just too predictable…..

    Start working with us LL, listen to us. ‘We’ are what keeps you going and if things continue the way they are, Philip’s dream and SL will soon become a monologue. ‘We’ make SL, not LL. ‘We’ are the heart and soul for SL. LL merely provide a platform for ‘us’ to create this world.

    Don’t destroy it…. What has happened in the past (broadly offensive, verification, gambling and now banks) are chipping away at what was once a fantastic thing.

    I understand, ‘we’ understand that you have your own ass to cover. Try and find other ways. Please?

  149. Storyof Oh says:

    cant get in…on old viewer or new release…DNS host name problems again/still…is it me? can i do anything my end?

  150. Ishtara Rothschild says:

    @135: I’m also not here to “pimp my purse”. Otherwise I’d churn out new products every day, quickly put together, or fill my shop with BIAB stuff. The things I occasionally create for my own use first and foremost; if they also sell, even better.

    But by now I need to make a certain amount of money to cover my costs. I can’t afford to pay $300 a month just for fun. If I need to advertise for $3000 in order to earn $3300, so be it. But I won’t turn my place into a camping ground and live in a laggy sim, that would spoil the fun for me as well as for people who visit my sim, which is more than just a shop.

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