3 fresh improvements to our Issue Tracker!

Friendly greetings in 2008! We’ve been continuing to better our Issue Tracker’s (what is it?) usefulness & accessibility for you. Following vibrant discussion, Rob Linden made several improvements:

  1. New “Fix Pending” state – This replaces the old “Fixed Internally”, and is better because that confusing terminology was a misleading final, instead of an intermediary status. “Fix Pending” basically means,
     
    “This bug is fixed in an internal Linden Lab release but is NOT public yet… hopefully it will be, soon!”
     
    This is important because it’s good to know work was actually done and is forthcoming (instead of an uncomfortable silence).

    3 fresh improvements to our Issue Tracker 1
     

  2. A new “meta” state – Meta Issues are useful for tracking groups of related issues. They’re not inherently resolvable, but provide a “big picture” view of things to be aware of. For instance, problems with certain hardware like newer MacBook Pros, or subjective aesthetic concerns about WindLight. You can create a Meta Issue by selecting Issue Type = “Meta Issue” as shown here:

    3 fresh improvements to our Issue Tracker 2
     
    then link related issues to it.
     

  3. Ability to change issue resolution without reopening – Reopening was a wasteful pain. Now, if an issue’s status needs to be corrected, there’s a “Change resolution” link on the left which can do just that.

    3 fresh improvements to our Issue Tracker 3


Related resources:

  • Knowledge Base Article of the Week #6 – Jeremy Linden shares pointers to a lot more Issue Tracker info.
     
  • Bug triages – Lindens meet with Residents (this could be you!) to examine and import bug for fixing. If you’re interested in how bugs get fixed, I encourage you to come.
     
  • SLJiraStats – Created by Gigs Taggart, this Resident-run site offers more insight with graphs and data.

And yes, I am planning on doing video tutorials on clarifying what continues to confuse and confound about the Issue Tracker, pending better solutions — leave me your suggestions in the comments.

Torley Linden https://i2.wp.com/torley-linden.s3.amazonaws.com/little-watermelon-eye.png

About Torley

Who am I? See http://torley.com/
This entry was posted in Bugs & Fixes, Quality Assurance. Bookmark the permalink.

76 Responses to 3 fresh improvements to our Issue Tracker!

  1. Jenny Carlos says:

    Im glad to see that you guys are working on better ways to work out a more smoother bug tracking system.
    I must say that I use to be very upset about the bugs that Second Life had and how badly they made my Second Life.
    But I must say that lately the lag that has overcome many parts of Second Life have surpast any bugs that ive seen in Second Life in a realy long time.

    Keep up the work of fixing the bugs and problems we are haveing in Second Life but my god please improve the servers or what ever is causing this HUGE amount of lag that is killing our fun place to be.
    I have a very exspensive high grade computer and never get lag like this in any other games I play.
    There is a problem someplace I really hope for everyones sake of fun in Second Life that you guys find the problem and solve it somehow in the near future.

  2. WarKirby says:

    One problem however, is that the fix pending state still doesn’t allow voting, which was what’s originally asked for. Moreover, it says “you cannot vote or change your vote on resolved issues”.

    I think that ought to be changed for useability. There’d be no harm in continuing to allow voting.

  3. Alissa Sabre says:

    Thank you Torley for writing this to the public including non developers. I want to express my regular complaint on this occasion.

    When Linden developers import bug fixes or various improvements written by open source developpers, the related JIRA issue is marked as Fix Pending (or Fixed Internally in a past), and that state usually continues for 2 or 3 months. We can’t see how that change is integrated into the viewer, because Lindens never disclose their internal development source files. Even the submitter of the fix or improvement has no way to know how it has been integrated. Lindens always say something like “It is already done. Just wait future releases.”

    This scheme is very disappointing. I always feel difficulty to keep my motivation on SL development.

    Please consider allowing read-only access to the latest viewer source files, i.e., the HEAD on the TRUNC of your internal developmet repository, so that we can evaluate, comment, or suggest more improvements on the future viewers before it is distributed as Release Candidate. I believe it will help both open source developers and Lindens.

  4. Cappy Frantisek says:

    I’m not a premimum member anymore and cannot log into the JIRA anymore. Gives me an error, “The credentials you provided cannot be determined to be authentic.” I use the same credentials to log into SL.

    And windlight viewer is the same thing, can not log in with my credentials.

    Anyway, good luck!

  5. Argent Stonecutter says:

    I agree with Alissa, read only access to the internal tree would allow external developers to become real partners. Really, the Lindens and the external developers should be using the same repository, with the only distinction being who had write access to the external branch.

    That’s only indirectly related to Jira, though. So, a Jira question:

    How about making “issues I voted for” and “issues I’m watching” a searchable attribute?

  6. Argent Stonecutter says:

    Bah, I mean “who had write-access to the internal branches”. I hate how my brain gets ahead of my fingers some times.

  7. Creem says:

    Since we’re on the topic of JIRA, I noticed several changes to my pet VWR bug like this:

    “Change by Rob Linden – 22/Dec/07 03:43 AM
    Workflow jira [ 17859 ] jira-2007-12-21 [ 29938 ]”

    Does “workflow” indicate that somebody is working on it, or does this mean something else? Thanks

  8. Stellerex Ah says:

    Doesnt matter how many bugs you fixed. Still havent fixed the annoying crash to the desktop bug which makes this game basicly unenjoyable. I send in about 15+ crash logs a day and still hasnt been fixed. Lameness on the major bugs not being fixed -_-;;

  9. Ceera Murakami says:

    Cappy? You don’t have to be Premium to access the JIRA. It sounds like there is an issue with your account that the Lindens need to resolve.

  10. Max Kleiber says:

    This all sounds pretty good, I guess…
    But where exactly IS this “issue tracker”? Every time I try to log into it, I see headers that say “beta”. While issue tracking on the beta grid are of surpassing importance, where would one go to address issues on the main grid, and with the main grid viewer(s)?

  11. Eren Padar says:

    Respectfully, while I agree that a more friendly JIRA is a good idea, fixing the bugs themselves is even a better idea.

    Group IMs have been malfunctioning for MONTHS and still is not corrected. How many bug reports regarding this matter are required before this is corrected?

    Chat is a basic, essential function of Second Life. When Linden Lab fails month after month to correct this issue, it gives the impression (valid?) that Linden Lab CAN’T fix the problem. At one time chat worked just fine. But now, we find we get in on the middle of group conversations when we’ve been online for hours (group conversations “start” obviously in the middle of an already existing chat), chat times out and refuses further communication, and our own messages are relayed back to us out of order.

    The final impression this leaves upon the customer is “We’re paying $295 a month for a sim, and Linden Lab can’t even get simple chat to work? No wonder they can’t fix the more difficult problems.”

    So rather than focusing on improving the JIRA… I would recommend focusing on removing the bugs themselves. Not that simplifying the JIRA wouldn’t be a good idea. It all needs done. But fix the significant bugs first, then the customer might not feel that the JIRA is a waste of time.

    Because after months of numerous people reporting the group chat bug with no resolution, at this time it would seem that’s exactly what JIRA is… a complex and cumbersome waste of customer time.

  12. To #10 (Max)- I think that just means the tracker itself is beta. Main grid bugs go there too! ^_^

    I mainly just don’t like reporting bugs/checking the issues because the issue tracker is painfully slow for me, most of the time. o_o Phooey!

  13. Alyx Sands says:

    I appreciate the changes, but I would also like to keep the option for voting open, as Argent said.
    Now there’s WEB-382 that is tearing at everyone’s nerves…. 😉
    And those complaining about bugs that haven’t been fixed-have you even tried searching for those particular bugs on JIRA? What’s their status? In most cases, for something to qualify as a bug, it has to be reproducible, too-totally random weirdness is hard to work with.

  14. Alberik Rotaru says:

    It would be great of a Linden took responsibility for Jira MISC-208? 722 votes is a lot. 16 May last year is a long time ago.

  15. Rush Rosenberg says:

    Torley – first of all a big “Thank you!” for speaking to us! Accepting bugs in a software (service) one pays a reasonable amount of money for is already difficult. But feeling not being informed about things and progresses makes things even worse. Your initiative is a big step in the right direction!

    However, still there are bugs, which need special attention and communication because of their brand image reputation harming nature. I especially point to #VWR-1978 (yes, that´s the umbrella MacBook Pro issue!). As of today (but since 6 months!) SL is NOT COMPATIBLE to MacBok Pro´s with nVidia graphics hardware. But this is not reflected in the SL system requirements list. Hence, including myself a lot of people have bought a MBP to specifically play SL on Mac OSX. You might imagine our huge disappointment!

    Okay, there is a bug, either on SL or on Apple/nVidia side. We have to live with it for the time being. BUT what hinders you to mark the concerning Apple hardware as “not compatible”? Are you fearing negative reaction from Apple? Are you concerned to loose some brand image about Linden Labs SW engineering capability?

    Such things need special communication and customer care – in public. Otherwise the brand image loss will come through the back door, which is much more serious…

    Keep on “banging on things!” and talking to us!

  16. mimi says:

    Torley, why is SVC-676 still beeing ignored? You promised us last time someone would take a look at it.. why has no linden even taken the effort to reply something?

    The most payed classified ( SOUL) in the classifieds section is one of a shop FULL of ripped skins (naughty, dragonfly, x2) and its beein in the top 10 for weeks. When it still was in a few shops, one can imagine no linden knew of it, but come on, the BIGGEST RIP SHOP in secondlife is in the TOP 10 classifieds for weeks and STILL NOTHING HAPPENS.

    So far for the so called copyrights in secondlife. Its just a lie.

  17. Thamala says:

    oh, that’s nice. Now if you’d FIX SOME OF THE BUGS that would be awesome.

  18. Elenora says:

    I wonder if we can get a rating system “SL behaves slow today” or some more usefull QoS Gridstats. In most of the cases (especially in the last few days) missing textures, super slow groupchat, slow IM and laggy movements shows up all over the place.

    It would detect partial failures of data servers like we seen yesterday where LL reacted only on user complains (so it reads).

    The tracker improvements are nice, however I wish more regular LL review/feedback on FRs.

  19. anonymous says:

    I would have to agree with Eren and Mimi; Maybe it’s time to say ciao to the “Tao”, and designate people to work on certain projects… It’s only obvious this platform is overloaded and at the breaking point. The amount of server crashes lately lead me to believe you have no redundancy.(and bringing in 40-60 Million USD per year one might think LL could spend 1-2% of that toward Load Balancing servers to prevent all the script failures, rez object failures, etc. Have any of your engineers ever heard of Load Balancing? You might want to try that; I hear it works wonders (facetiously said 😉 ROTF

    (and to the fanbois; bag all you want, but the reality of this situation is quite evident. ANYONE wonder why we ONLY have about 50k online at once? (sure 2 yrs ago there were only 5k online, but things worked then 😉 It’s because this platform CANNOT handle the amount to users that they imagined. Sure, 10-20yrs from now when bandwidth and processing power has sextupled it might work, but then SLs code will be SO bloated that we will still be in the same situation, only with 100k online instead of 50K….

  20. Cool stuff! Although an extra issue type “Enhancement” (both Bug and New Feature are not really suitable for that) would be even cooler 😛

  21. RHAS says:

    The enormous amounts of lag should be priority nr1 for LL. This is what kills most. Improvements to issue trackers is nice, but the enormous amounts of lag have to be obvious even without an issue tracker altogheter.

  22. ONE PO'd RESIDENT says:

    would also be very nice if every tom dick and harry could CLOSE your ticket cus they think its not reproducable or whatever this really pisses me off kinda nulls the point of file a bug report

  23. Thanx for the comments so far! There’s some stuff I’ve touched on before, some answers are in existing documentation, some of it isn’t actionable (meaning, “It’s too vague and can’t do much more with it, sorry”), and there’s more than I can reply to in a single go, but in-digest:

    * If I can personally help further a specific bug, I’ll leave a comment on that issue, or forward it to other Lindens who know more. There are a number of issues which aren’t clearly actionable (Meta Issues among them) but they’re still good for discussion, hence why they’re open.

    * Re: buckets of bugs affecting specific hardware, this is something I’ve become all-too-pained by during my involvement with Team WindLight (and re: “Tao”, there *are* designated groups of Lindens who have responsibility to certain projects, teams, and soforth — it isn’t a careless free-for-all and I wish more Lindens had time in their busy workdays to share their experiences, my work duties are listed @ http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Torley_Linden ). Anyway, I know Poppy, BigPapi, and others have commented before re: issues with new MacBook Pros, see https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1978#action_39011 and search for others. It would be GREAT if some helpful Residents could contribute to http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Graphics_Cards too.

    * Again, something I’m always fond to emphasize: votes *don’t* guarantee resolution, especially when an issue isn’t actionable (you can usually tell if there’s a lot of comments that aren’t in agreement), but they *are* very useful alerting us to hot, reproducible bugs, and I have many examples of that. (There are exceptions, of course, and there always will be.) Features are different from bugs and one reason why some features aren’t done RIGHT NOW is because of technical complexity, or they may be more suitable to be part of a “themed” project, e.g., “major Groups upgrade” like there was in 2006.

    * ALWAYS more followup to be done, so yes, just like I blogged about these 3 improvements which came in response to Resi requests, we need to do more work on the Issue Tracker.

    I’d like to communicate more (I’m often a messenger-amplifier here @ LL), but there’s a dynamic balance between doing work vs. talking about it… any suggestions to improve efficiency while resulting in your greater satisfaction + fun are *always* appreciated.

    And to give you a peek on what’s happening next in my workday, in 2 min., I’ll be going through open WindLight issues (see http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Windlight for all the lovely details, including how you can meet Team WindLight inworld and share what matters most to you re: enhancing aesthestics + viewer performance) and commenting on what I know more about.

  24. Thank you Torley! It is great to see improvements on any portion of the service.. and, no matter how it may ‘fit the bill’ for some residents, any improvement in the service, the communication and usefulness of the tools made available is a welcomed breath of fresh air.

    Its also nice to see that focus is being placed on the particular system which we, as subscribers/residents, are reliant upon to highlight issues and track their status.

    @21: Without the issue tracker/bug reporting.. how would they know what is causing lag without finding out what bugs lurk within the code? Bugs inherently create lag, in and of themselves.. get rid of them, or at least tackle the issue head on, and you’re leaps and bounds ahead of the game.. in other words.. work with the flow.. not against it 😉

    @22: I couldn’t agree more! But, what also ‘chips my chisel’ if you will, are the people who can’t seem to see the forest for the trees’ in regards to reports such as this.. for quite some time I’ve watched LL sit back silently as problems persist with the system.. seemingly not doing anything…BUT, in the past couple of months I have watched LL improve, by leaps and bounds, not only their efforts on stabilizing the grid and resolving current issues, as well as push forward on enhancements to the viewer.. but, have also ‘pulled their gag from their mouths’ and spoken openly of known issues, speaking out of the efforts being made to counter those issues, but also showing a willingness to admit their faults and mistakes! And all of this in spite of the fact that on average (a rough guesstimate) 8 out of 10 respondents bash and harp on them.. at times.. for matters not related to the issue at had *glances to 21, 13 through 17, 11…. *..

    Please try and take a step back, deep breath, and swallow the fact that 1) No, they may not be getting to things in the order in which YOU would handle it, but then again.. they also created, run and operate (maybe not the only one of its kind, but) definitely the most advanced 3D-Live-Worldwide-interactive platform out there, and know more about what it’s doing and what is priority than any one of us do.. and, 2) Yes, they do have a history of not ‘listening’ so to speak, but are making blatantly obvious efforts to change this, and the service itself.

    If you cannot at least notice that they are screaming “Hey, we’re listening.. and here’s the proof!’… then goto Kaneva or some other platform.. or how about ol’ Yahell.. maybe someone there wants to hear the b**ching.

    To LL.. Thank you and please, by all means, keep up the good work.. some of us know what it’s like 😉

    To everyone else.. thanks for bearing with me while I rant..

  25. Leatherboy Hansen says:

    Wonderful!

    Now can you fix the asset server so I can do some scripting please?

  26. Alicia Sautereau says:

    The asset server has gone bellyup again, no prims being deleted and can`t save scripts

  27. Pepper Haas says:

    Torley wrote:
    * Again, something I’m always fond to emphasize: votes *don’t* guarantee resolution, especially when an issue isn’t actionable (you can usually tell if there’s a lot of comments that aren’t in agreement), but they *are* very useful alerting us to hot, reproducible bugs, and I have many examples of that. (There are exceptions, of course, and there always will be.)

    Affirming the prior post which says JIRA is a complete waste of time, for what good is it to report a bug, and vote on it, and alerting lindens on it, when here we have a Linden admitting it doesn’t really do a thing toward fixing it?

    One of these days paying customers are going to demand Lindens fix bugs and problems that are reported. Instead of asking of customers to track them on JIRA and “vote” (read pray) they get fixed, maybe, of course there are exceptions.

  28. anonymous says:

    Sorry to blog twice (I despise that) but this post simply reiterates my last post; NO REDUNDANCY as yet ANOTHER asset server has JUST
    failed 😦

  29. Penguinfan Beck says:

    Great.. so, how about we fix group land issues, such as only the owner of the land being able to change settings, even if there are other owners to the group of the land…

    Oh, and one thing that would be FANTASTIC.. how about fixing the asset server issue ONCE AND FOR ALL.. because it is SCREWED AGAIN!!!!!

    SL is WORTHLESS when it is like this!!

  30. Ursa Henley says:

    i swear do you people even know what you are doing, every other day something is broke and its always the same thing, maybe just maybe if you took the time to find a permenant fix instead of throwing bandaids at things ,and making everything look all pretty like the webpage and crap things would work better and last longer, we already know lag isnt going to get fixed, but at least makke the teleport more stable and for gods sake fix the access servers no one likes that fact that you make a ton of money selling lindens for people to spend in world then for whatever unknown reasons find they cant retrieve, use, wear anything bought with those lindens. and i might add theres so many ethical issues with that, ie scam. its your responsibility to the people spending money with you to maintain a product, and unless that level of requirement isnt met then people need to do what is necessary to get you to understand that. And in this world that could be any number of ways. things happen i know but i think you’ve used up all the lame and made up excuses by now. Now its time for you to prove you nothing more that a huge over bloated scam.

  31. Mia says:

    Oi va…..cant get any attachments to attach now….cant tp…and everyone is grey!

    Other then that ………….still lovin SL!!!

  32. Kiboe Munro says:

    fix, the, damn, issues!

  33. Lukas Mensing says:

    well, I m happy to learn that someone reads the Jira things!
    The poor and unfriendly JIRA is the UNIQUE and ONLY communication way from residents to Linden Lab…
    The other way is to wait for a Post in relation with the subject one would like to say something about, and before it closes, say what is to be said…
    Communication…

  34. BiLez Boa says:

    Well it is obvoius AGAIN that they have really NO idea what they are doing. Very well said, Ursa, i totally second that.

  35. rigonet says:

    well mmm am kind of mad beacase it was to much offline and i dont like that beacase it takes long time and i have to do something an when i get in it is all mess up thats why

  36. Griffin Yeats says:

    Here’s an interesting concept. Could it be that allowing people with no payment info into SL has created a world of alternate accounts, and a never-ending supply of griefers into the sandboxes? If you don’t own a sim, you can’t build in half the sandboxes in SL due to PN or some other random griefer. And if the 9.95 one time fee is considered too harsh, then find a different game. Let us examine some logical statements. If you want to use server space for a website, a company will charge you for it. The Lindens are allowing people to make accounts, and multiply the amount of objects on their servers for free, and then everyone wonders why the grid lags so much? Think of this, How much more lag is applied to the search server when you do a person search for someone named “Bob”, and there are about 10,000 “Bob”s in the results? I’ll tell you, before free accounts, there was less lag, less crashing, and you could almost ALWAYS rez anything out of your inventory. Now you have to worry about losing your inventory. Perhaps instead of working with the issue tracker, Lindens should work on a system that cleans out old accounts after 6 months of inactivity? And then work on closing free accounts. Sure, a huge member count is nice, but it shows nothing when 3/4 of it is alternate accounts. Also, there would be far less underagers in the world, which would render the age verification system useless, which I am sure most of us would love.

    Food for thought, hope this will open some eyes.

  37. Starsaphire Dagger says:

    Kudo’s to all who have found and know how to use the issue tracker… from my survey… you are in a minority.
    LL… how about some well defined links on the main page so it’s not guess work as to where everything is?
    Meanwhile… I will continue to use the ‘bug reporting’ tool until a path into the ‘issue tracker’ is clear.
    And… while we are on the issue of bugs… a link somewhere on the outside to report issues with logins would be nice. Difficult to report a log in bug if there is nowhere to report it… I tried using the support link in my profile and found it may take a month for a response to a support request (one of the many reasons why I cancelled my premium account) makijng it useless for reporting a problem except by phone… which no one answers.
    Those of you with possible helpful comments… I wont be back to look for them so save your fingers.

  38. Vivienne says:

    Go and get something better than MySQL. And stop throwing eyecandy on us as long as you have not fixed the ESSENTIAL bugs.

  39. Kara Harkins says:

    So we are still forced to clog up the issue tracker because you will not give us a better alternative to give you feedback? Like my having inventory objects refuse to rez *before* you told us today that your “fix” to the inventory server was not a fix after all?

  40. Joe Shmoe says:

    Wow.. I never realized that a system such as this, with the several THOUSANDS of servers it relies upon can’t have problems!
    Do me a favor will ya Ursa.. when you study up and become an IT pro, and you know the intricate details of a network such as SL, and you run off to your LaLa land and create the ultimate network that never has any problems.. then come with your ignorant gripes about how LL should keep things up and running. Hmm… cant use/retrieve/wear something you bought inworld eh? Lemme ask you this then.. ever had a ‘Critical Failure’ of a component in your computer? say.. a Harddrive?.. you know.. that thingy that stores all of your ever so important pictures and .doc’s! Ever lost anything from something like that?… well.. now multiply it by several thousand, and multiply you (the user/person using the computer) by on average 40+ thousand at once and tell me how stable you think your systems going to be -.-!

    Tell me something else.. when you buy a car.. with the tens of thousands produced each year.. you dont think some come out with problems? Oh, thats right.. if there are some with problems, or ones that have issues, the people building the cars.. or your mechanic that maintains it doesnt know what he’s doing, right?

    Get real

  41. Alyx Sands says:

    #39: Support ticket. No, really.

  42. Dusty Runo says:

    Damnit, No log on and i was just online 20 min ago…………………………………………………………………………………………………………….Damnit!….it would be nice if LL would get rid o the MAIN bugs before the small ones. Whaterver…i guess

  43. Milo Bellow says:

    Total Lols @ “3 fresh improvements to our issue tracker”(sic)

    Translation=

    “slight improvement in the way We get You to do our bug testing for Us”

    To Which I Can Only Answer:

    So?

    LL Has Always Used Its Players As Guinea Pigs That Pay For The Dubious Pleasure.

    In Return LL Offer Little More Than Patronising Insults And Pathetic Service.

    I Have Zero Intention Of Clearing Up Their Mess For Them.

    I Dont “Kick The Dog And Bark”.

    Someone At LL Needs To Get A Grip.

    Seriously,

    Like Yesterday…

  44. mimi says:

    Hi Torley thansk for the answer.. do you maybe remember which lindens took a look at 676? I understand the problem can’t be solved easily, but why doesn’t LL give any reply at all?

    The whole theft problem may be hard to find a solution for, but you’ve got to admit, its is RIDICULOUS that your DMCAs don’t work. You made a promiss and you don’t keep it. That’s sad.

  45. MariaBeatriz Beck says:

    Dear Griffin Yeats ,

    I agree 100%. Please, delete old accounts with no activity for 6 months or so. What is the point to have residents with no payment on file, if all the others residents that put a lot of money on the system cannot enjoy SL?

  46. Di Jun says:

    Best description I have ever herd about issues:

    “The grid is down while we bang on things”

    Appropriate image too *roll eyes*

    “LATEST STATUS:
    January 3, 2008, 10:46 am Second Life is currently unavailable to logins as we work on a problem that has cropped up with our system. We apologize for the inconvenience. Please see blog.secondlife.com for more information.
    For additional details about system upgrades, maintenance, outages, other known problems and more, please visit the Official Linden Blog.”

    Guess I need to go back to work in RL anyway LOL

  47. Vivienne says:

    @ 40

    You misunderstand the character of this here. LL CHARGES people for this service. This is not a matter of “IT pro” or not “IT pro”, this is a matter of BUSINESS. As long as LL does NOT compensate customers for a loss of inventory and service outages like the recent one, this is far from being a reliable business platform or anything else “reliable”.

    If I pay monthly fees and purchase virtual land or even pay my fee on linden dollar exchanges i expect that the ones who sell it to me make this product RUN in a reliable way. I am not really interested in HOW they manage this, but interested in THAT they do. And if they fail I expect compensation for my loss and not a “resolved – thank you for your patience”.

    You may look at this from the point of view of a tech freak, but this would be adequate for a really FREE open source project but NOT for a business like this here.

  48. Lost Soul says:

    Quite frankly, as to what i’ve seen on this game, there are a lot of issues. heck, there are more than i’ve ever actually seen in any other game i’ve played. The interesting fact however, is that while bugs are being reported left and right, there is the argument that it is not “actionable” and/or repeatable. Tell me, if it is indeed, not repeatable, how is it so many players are having the same issue? a fluke, as it were, constitutes a one time issue, not something that can be truly reproduced. However, if there are so many people having the -same- issue if not in a slight variation, then i would think one would be at least obligated to go into the coding and see what the issue was at a base level

    Linden Labs have had many issues during their game’s first rise into popularity. however, i am starting to feel that with the amount of people i know, and how much they devote their money to this game, you would honestly think that there would be proper results, rather than the old stigma of “Sweeping it under the rug” syndrome.

    While i will give credit to you, LL, for continuing to make the game a little better each time. it is more of a case of a step forward, two (or more) backwards. i am quite certain that everyone within the linden game would much rather deal with no new content or upgrades for a while, and have the current issues with lag and scripting resolved. It is in my mind, the least one could do for those who pay over 200 bucks to play this game.

    also, about the #VWR-1978 Mac book pro issue. am i right to see that your only true comment to that is to say:

    “It would be GREAT if some helpful Residents could contribute to http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Graphics_Cards too.”

    This is rather…..absurd. an answer to this issue is merely to tell people that -they- themselves must post the information up, because the LL corporation doesn’t care to in the slightest!?
    truly, this is the highest act of ignorance.

    I will not blame you, for lord only knows how much you have on your plate. But it seems to me the directive of LL is now just to make half-hearted upgrades tot he system, and just take in whatever cash they can. (Note: this is how all big business run, they slowly tend to care less and less about the people and more about the cash)

    Regardless. I still say continue with what you are doing, but do -not- forget that the biggest issues are always the ones that will cost money to resolve. and if the corporation itself isnt willing to see this as a truth. Then in my opinion, they’ve already set themselves up for a predicted rate of failure.

  49. ONE PO'd RESIDENT says:

    these asset issues need to be the number one priority geezus already how many complaints do you all need to get …. i know ur not blind… although i wonder sometimes about that
    i dont understand why there is asset issues daily for the past year and still nothing is fixed…. we know you all know about it and we know you get enough damn money from us to fix or replace the freakin thing why is there not backups and WHY can we NOT save our own ITEMS we make YET! this would reduce so much load on the system i just cannot believe that these windlight and other crap is more important you have huge business pulling out of SL i wonder why????
    pontiac GONE aol GONE electric sheep half GONE wake up and fix these issues NO one wants to spend money in an unstable enviornment!
    and jira is pretty well useless anyone can close your ticket anytime they want all they gotta do is click the link its POOR quality bug tracker that 90% of people find to hard to use

  50. Ursa Henley says:

    you realize if LL were in another country they would be facing criminal charges for this level of service to paying customers, perhaps the US sould stiffen punishments and prosecution of businesses that do business in this way. and i find it amusing that they didnt allow comments on the new blog about the shut down. Lindens are so FREAKING pathetic

  51. Ann Otoole says:

    thanks Torely! =^.^=

  52. Alyx Sands says:

    #50: Which country?

  53. the bat says:

    @36 — suggest you buy/rent some land to do your building on –then you wont get the problem — 😀
    and yes –i am a free account , currently renting 28,000 sq mtrs and spending 300euro+ a month in sl — but then us free guys dont contribute/count do we — 🙂

  54. Alberik Rotaru says:

    It’s perfectly reasonable to say that votes don’t guarantee that an issue is resolved. That is not the same argument as saying that issues like MISC-208 do not merit any attention at all. I think we are probably looking for better JIRA outcomes, rather than better JIRA features.

  55. Paddy Wright says:

    Guys and Gals,

    Please ask yourself this simple question….
    Do you think LL employees are tring to make SL better?

    No? = find a new virtual world.

    Yes? = Give them a chance. I am convinced that Torley and all the LL crew are daily doing their very best, in a cutting edge environment. The vitriol displayed by residents cant help. Support them, don’t assasinate them.

  56. Kira says:

    Sorry Joe have to disagree sure a car may come out with problems but not every 5 cars or every 10 cars they would recall them. Or since i paid for the car i would take it back and make them fix it . You anaology falls short i am sorry What we are talking about here is the SAME problems reoccuring every other day. Yes i’m well aware of the pitfalls of technology and yes i do expect some bumps in the road, but dang havent you ever run over the same pothole day after day on your way to work and wonderd ” ffs when are they going to fix this”
    I have been in SL for 3 years now i do not compalin most times i suck it up even when some greifing noob is humping my head playing ” hiel hitler ” over and over or telling me ” i wnt hot with brown skin girl u wnt 2 hot with me??!!” I suck it up when when 150+ prims ghost when i delete them and wait for a sim restart i suck it up when i loose 1000L$ in inventory. I love SL and im not going anywhere as i saidi do expect problem to occur> i Dont expect the same problems to occur 3 times a week for 3 months.

  57. Kara Harkins says:

    @40 Yes, hard drives fail …. have you ever heard of things called backups?

    Yes, guaranteeing 100.0000000000% non-failure is impossible, but 99.999999999% uptime is quite doable. I used to work IT in a hospital where we are literally taking life-and-death situations if the computer goes down: we had multiple network paths, redundant power supplies (on 3 grids plus a generator), failure plans to other computers, the usual backups, even a last-ditch failure plan to utilize another data center. If something happened to take out any component of our computing power, chances are that event would have destroyed the whole town.

    Please do not join the “breakdowns happen” crowd. If you do, you are just showing that you have been in IT long.

  58. Sedary Raymaker says:

    @24: “8 out of 10 respondents bash and harp on them.. at times.. for matters not related to the issue at had”

    To be fair, they don’t generally allow comments on the posts regarding those issues.

  59. Vivienne says:

    @ 55

    “Support them, don’t assasinate them.”

    They get all the support they need. Zillions of Dollars paid by their customers. And no, there is no need to assasinate them, cause they do this all by themselves, if the proceed like they did over the past year. I would HATE that.

  60. Q Linden says:

    Hi, folks. As a developer at Linden Lab, I’d like to comment on a couple of points.

    First, we’re actually actively working toward moving our viewer development to an external repository so that the open source community will have access to the head of our development trunk. But there are several roadblocks we have to get out of the way first.

    Second, everyone, including us, wants SL to be reliable and stable. Part of the reason that changes take a long time to propagate is that we’ve instituted better systems to make sure that we’ve properly tested things before we release them. We are also trying to improve those systems to make our release process faster, but making the releases better is the first priority. Speed will come as we learn.

    Finally, sometimes people get frustrated because they don’t see us taking action on an issue that seems like it should be easy and obvious, especially if you have a background in software engineering. The underlying issue, however, is almost always one of priorities. We’re putting most of our development effort right now into architectural issues that we believe will, in the long run, make it easier, faster, and safer to extend SL in new directions, and to expand our ability to grow. We’re really not idiots — I’m constantly amazed by the caliber of the people I work with here.

    With the help of people like Torley, we really do listen to what the residents are saying. We then have to balance that and make smart decisions about what to work on. You can help by continuing to participate here, and in JIRA.

    I’m still listening, and learning. And meanwhile, I’m going back to writing code.

  61. Korena Starbrook says:

    every single day following a rolling restart update this happens.

    *sigh*

    my last day off to get stuff done 😦

  62. hmmm…

    I have one bug report closed with insults by a “BDSM master”, and three feature requests which disappeared from search the next day they were posted. Worse, I selected a random issue in the JIRA, and I checked that I had the button “close” available, so that anybody can close any issue wantonly!!!

    What I think is that, in the very first, the JIRA should be managed by responsible and rational people, not by a “free community” which does whatever they want, regardless of the interest of LL and users.

  63. Griffin Yeats says:

    @ 53
    If can pay that on a free account, what is the bother with paying $9.95 one time to get an account? That is the way it used to be, and I’m not saying that free account people do not contribute, I just find it absurd that many of the accounts out there that are free are alts, underagers, and griefers who have nothing better to do than to crash sandboxes and hinder the productivity of residents who want to build large projects or things that wouldn’t fit in a 512 sq. meter plot. I find plenty of places to build what I build, that nobody knows about, so I don’t have the problem, but it would be for the good of the people who do.

  64. Arcanaia says:

    I understand that SL is new technology and with new tech comes a host of new problems. I also realize that the lindin’s can’t just wave a magic wand and make everything ok, even games like City of heroes and WoW have that kind of problem. They know the bug is there but they can’t do much about it for now.

    BUT so many times I see a major bug passed over for something minor, in this case the Asset server dieing and costing users tons of time and money when their stuff goes poof with no hopes of ever seeing it again, yet the issue LL deals with is giveing the webpage a make over.

    Its cool that things are geting fixed and I understand you can’t just make everything better over night but I’m a little sick of loseing my entire inventory and just getting a “Sorry, better luck next time” from LL. IT knowledge and paid acounts shouldn’t matter, if I buy a car and it breaks down as soon as I leave the lot the dealer doesn’t get to brush me off because I’m not a mechanic.

  65. Soilent says:

    I’m not one of those who complain all the time.
    I understand that to support all the different software/hardware combinations, you need all the help you can get (e.g. good bug reports).

    in addition, instead of asking a question that has been asked a million times, I’d rather browse the FAQ or read the manual.

    But then you shouldn’t make it so hard!

    Whenever I click on that “support” link, I feel like someone shouts “go away!” to me.
    It starts with that click-to-login-as-the-user-you-are-logged-in-as-already-link and ends with that popup every 5 minutes “why are you still here?”, the different pieces inbetween aren’t any better. solution finder? knowledge base? looks very empty. So I guess most of second life is still unknown… or top secret … Or you rather want me to call you on the phone to ask a semi-noob question like “how can I whisper?”

  66. DarkOverlord says:

    I agree that the bugs should have really come before this as some people have said already but it is also a good idea to have done this because now it will be easier for people to keep track of bugs that are being fixed, have been fixed and one’s that are new.

    Also to people who are complaining about the group chat, although it isn’t required or the group owner(s) responsibility it would be a good idea for people who own groups where issues may need to be discussed about sims that the group uses to set up a forum/message board online so that if they cannot use the chat to let people know they could post problems there as well (I think this would also be a great idea for groups that have regular events such as clubs and rp’s as they could post upcoming events there as well and take suggestions for new events).

  67. mimi says:

    hi Q Linden,
    why do you allow a shop that sells only rips to advertise at your mainpage? Why do you not remove it? Why do you promise us we have copyright over our items, when a HUGE shop advertising at #1 is able to advertise stolen products for weeks, but NO action is taken.

    This isn’t something which has to do with software, so don’t blame it on software or ‘were working on it’. Working on processing a DMCA over a single shop selling such obvious rips shouldn’t take months.

    If you want to have a business driven website, have one. But if you can’t handle it, don’t make us empty promises.

  68. Balder Miles says:

    Worst day on SL ever….
    Groupchat does’nt work, uploading textures does’nt work, can’t open notecards just sent to me: “Insufficient permissions to view notecard.”, can’t log into my account on the homepage or create an event in the calender. Can’t take or delete rezzed objects….
    but about the LAG….upgrade your own computers folks, after i got 2GB ram and 258 MB graphicscard…i have’nt had LAG at all.

  69. Day Oh says:

    #62

    Anyone can reopen issues, too. It’s really not as bad as you think. People work very hard and watch it very closely (:

  70. Fellatione Aabye says:

    As “Q” stated ..

    *QUOTE* Second, everyone, including us, wants SL to be reliable and stable. Part of the reason that changes take a long time to propagate is that we’ve instituted better systems to make sure that we’ve properly tested things before we release them. We are also trying to improve those systems to make our release process faster, but making the releases better is the first priority. *UNQUOTE*

    Then I am asking to myself the question … WHY DOES ALL IN SECOND LIFE gets completly screwed up for 2 or 3 days after a restart or update?

    I know fixing the Buggs (4000 and some) isn t that easy I know … but why do they always come back after a restart or update ?

    And WHY focussing on future projects when there is enough to do to get the present correct ??? Wouldn t it be easier to cure first all the problems before focussing on a far futur? Wich would make the futur easier ??? (Logical thinking)

    At last … but not least …

    (A) When will that HATE conduct towards FREE ACCOUNTS from a lot of people here STOP … OK i m a free account and to make things even worse a European Resident (Belgian) and was thinking to upgrade this year on my rez day … 🙂

    (B) And LL to save space on the servers … why not “AFTER ASKING” kill ALL the ALTS … who haven t been used in let s say 6 months … and charge the creation of ALTS (Kind of your AV (free or premium) … ALT1 charged at 25% of the annual fee … etc till the 4th ALT at 100% … In my opinion someone who makes/uses ALTS aren t that clean, or intend to do some harm or illegitimate acts .. why take another alias ?????

    On closing … Keep up the good work …. and if Residents sprickle you with vitriol … THAT S because they love SECOND LIFE … and as seemingly the blog here is the only “VOICE CHANNEL” where residents can be heard …

  71. mimi says:

    Some people take alts to keep privacy and business separate, or to have objects on the alts acount which send IMs to its owner, which gets their IMs capped.

  72. Q Linden says:

    This is one of those rare blog entries that hasn’t filled up, so I get to think about responses a little longer.

    There’s a belief I see frequently — often in software developers — that goes something like this: “if you test all the pieces of something individually, the whole thing should work”. It shows up often in its inverse form of “why didn’t you test it before you deployed it?”

    I do a lot of bicycle riding, and I work on my own bikes. Last summer, I reassembled a mountain bike. I had carefully cleaned and lubed the derailleur, the chain, and the shifters, and reassembled it all, and it looked great and appeared to work. But it was terrible at shifting and kept slipping out of gear and dropping the chain on bumpy roads. Why? Because I had an extra link in the chain.

    All the pieces were almost completely right, but put together into a working system, they had a subtle flaw.

    The same kind of thing happens to our systems, except instead of tens of moving parts there are literally thousands. Whenever we perturb the system, we might provoke a failure, sometimes even if we didn’t change the component.

    In the case of SL, we’re undergoing constant growth, and that growth sometimes drives failures. As just one example, the systems we buy from third parties are often being used in ways that no other customer of that vendor does. Consequently, we’ve been known to drive failure modes in hardware that other platforms don’t.

    In a prior role in the game development industry, I used to see bugs in video hardware that no other software would encounter. The thing I had to recognize is that everyone else in the industry had the same problem. If you’re not driving bugs in video drivers, it’s because you’re not doing anything interesting.

    Again, there’s those moving parts. My software worked on most systems. Those drivers worked on most software. But the combination together caused a problem.

    Now with all of that said, I completely recognize that in the end, I had to shorten the chain, and fix the video problems. And certainly we at Linden should strive for minimal disruption and a stable platform.

    But it’s necessarily dynamic stability, if only because of growth. It makes no sense to “stop and fix all the bugs first” because by the time we did, changes in the operating environment (new versions of operating systems, new hardware and drivers, growth in our user base, etc) would generate whole new sets of issues.

    The best thing we can do is what we’re trying very hard to do, which is make sure our architecture and systems support an agile, reactive environment so that we can add new stuff and fix problems in a timely fashion. If you ask what we’re all working on, that’s pretty much the answer.

  73. LifeFactory Writer says:

    Good day, All! Happy New Year! This is off topic, and I do apologize but…I don’t know where else to go, as the support portal is down and there is no customer service number. I have just tried to sign in and receive the error: “SL is unable to run because your video card drivers are out of date or unsupported…if you continue to get this error, contact customer service.” I have checked, and my drivers are up-to-date…I even reinstalled them, my card is a new Nvida 8600, and I even tried re-installing SL. Any suggestions on what I should do? Thanks so much for taking an off-topic Q. If there is a better place to go, please let me know!

  74. LifeFactory Writer says:

    By the way…and I try to say this as often as possible…I think SL is doing great. My performance has mostly been very stable recently, and I am patient with the lag, etc, which I consider “part of the culture.” 🙂 It would be nice to get a handle on the hackers though 😦 I have not lost sight of the fact that we are all sitting on a cutting edge of technology, and of course that means bugs and glitches…I am happy to be here and riding with the development. Now, if I could just get in again! 😀

  75. @70: alts are useful, I have one and plan to have others. The reason is simple: we build a character, with its shape, name, groups, friends, activities… which can be incompatible with another character. from here the interest to have several. There are even much simpler reasons, such as having a backup or out inventory or passing the 25 groups limit, or, for women, not being sexually harassed.

    Charging as several accounts? we are on line with only one alt at a time…

    of course there is alt abuse (griefing, TOS violation, etc), that LL rightly blames on the main account. The method used to identify alts is that they originate from the same PC. This is not alway fair, as several different persons can use the same PC and have separate responsibilities. From here, again, the need to have a real control of identities, like in HIHIHI (chinese Second Life)

  76. Ishtara Rothschild says:

    Hey, isn’t this nice? The number of blog comments is so low nowadays that the comments don’t need to be closed anymore. The blog entries never reach 100 or 150 comments. Some problems solve themselves. Yay 🙂

Comments are closed.