Land Supply and Pricing for late 2007 and through Q1 2008

I’d like to talk a little about land supply for the upcoming period, and also to address the many of you that have asked us whether land pricing changes are coming soon. A year ago, in November 2006, we stated that prices would not change before end of 2007 and so with 2008 fast approaching it is a good time to discuss it.

Firstly, regarding pricing.. our current plan is to keep land prices as they are now through Q1 2008, both for new and existing land, for islands and mainland. Grandfathered islands will also remain the same. So no changes to land pricing in Q1 2008.

Regarding land supply.. the average mainland price per meter has continued to hold at around L$6.3/m, which we feel is a good level, low enough for those coming into the land market for the first time and high enough that both mainland and islands can be profitable for those interested in trading or leasing land.

So with that in mind, we will continue to keep the level of new land we add to the market low, essentially concentrating on recycling abandoned land back into circulation. There will be no whole regions of mainland auctioned in the remaining weeks of 2007. In January 2008 we may begin to auction whole regions once more.

Over the last few weeks we have pushed the amount of abandoned land on the mainland down to around 1 million meters; that probably still sounds like a lot, but in reality it’s the equivalent of less than 16 regions of land or under 0.4% of the total mainland space. We want to keep pushing hard on getting as much of this abandoned land back into use and generally cleaned up, so expect to see more L$ auctions being posted to the auction pages through January.

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150 Responses to Land Supply and Pricing for late 2007 and through Q1 2008

  1. chilkotardis says:

    What about land supply on the TG?

  2. Egon Rothschild says:

    $6.3/m ?

    i wish they had done this when i was paying L$15,000 for a 512 last winter. sigh.

  3. randi charron says:

    I don’t know where you’re getting your pricing information, but according to the listing I just ran, the LOWEST price for mainland property is $7.9L per meter, not $6.3L. I didn’t actually run the numbers, but a quick guesstimate would be that average per meter is running closer to $9L – $11L

  4. Redux Decosta says:

    yeesh, i have almost as much empty land as you guys do xD

  5. chilkotardis says:

    /me has no reason to complain, over here its like, 1.9 average

  6. Chavi Skomoroklov says:

    I’d wish you’d slow down adding regions on mainland as prices are not really rising a lot, so it’s not really profittable to sell/rent out.

    Furthermore: Bare in mind that your clients are not only in the USA, but also -and increasingly so- in Europe a.o., where VAT isn’t making it cheaper, hence slowing down selling mainland. πŸ˜‰

  7. Anna Eisbar says:

    Land prices are definitely NOT low at all. Considering the fact that a region is, before anything else, a SERVER, and the fact that LL, by buying this many servers, most certainly has very good sale conditions, paying 1650 Us$ for the purchase of one region seems absolutely exagerated. Same with the tier : almost 300 US$ a month. This means that with the tiers of 12-15 regions, the income LL gets can pay one full LL employee for full-time maintenance service. I dont know how many thousands of regions there are in SL, but i doubt there are that many employees that such a high tier fee is requiered.
    OR…. or prove me wrong by being transparent and publishing what a region really costs to LL.
    Regards,
    Anna.

  8. John Doe says:

    @3 I agree with you. I guess the L$6.3/sq.m considers private island land sales (you have a lot of L$0/sq.m).

    I also guesstimate the real market runs at L$9-L$11 average

  9. Sin Kovacs says:

    Is there going to be any more land added to the Teen Grid?

  10. Sindy Tsure says:

    Once you start adding mainland again, you’re going to finish the old southern continent, right Jack?? /me pokes Jack. Right??

    πŸ™‚

  11. King Thunders says:

    Why can’t LL come up with a better system of scheduling auctions -if ppl ask for a certain region parcels be listed — myself and 4-5 others have been waiting on 5-10 plots in my region to be listed for months –all abandoned –or in gov. Lindens name — but these plots have not been listed — why not -if people submit ticket -just put these plots up asap – n let them sell ?

  12. Raven Primeau says:

    How about adjusting the land tier payments while you are at it.

    I would like a little more land, not 2X as much so why the huge gaps in tier payments? Make it cheaper and more levels if you really wish to encourage ppl to buy.

    I used to pay US$40 now thats gone up because of VAT which I feel is an affront to us Euro residents, I for 1 cannot see what we are actually paying for, nothing comes in and out of the EU

  13. Ciaran Laval says:

    Where are you getting your average prices from? I don’t see any land inworld for that price on mainland and I haven’t seen many auctions that are below that price to make L$6.3 the average price.

    Jack quarterly updates are no good to me. I’d have purchased another Island had I known pricing wouldn’t change for six months but I won’t buy one on the back of quarterly promises, it’s too short a period.

  14. Davina Glitter says:

    6.7L is the minority, the average seems to be more around 10-12L; I have not looked extensively at this issue lately though.

    If you can please continue to add physical roads to current main land I would appreciate that very much. I live in a Sim that has roads but are still grass. Is it possible that I get copies of the road prims so I can help layout the roads for you? Thanks! πŸ™‚

  15. Raven Primeau says:

    OHH! AND THANK YOU FOR THE WARNING ON DOWNTIME, KICKED OFF THE GRID WHILE ENTERING A COMMENT HERE, RIGHT ON PRIME EURO EVENING TIME AGAIN I SEE. KEEP THE AMERICANS HAPPY AND KICK THE EUROPEANS AGAIN IS IT?????? RIGHT AFTER FILLING THE “IS YOUR SL EXPERIENCE GETTING BETTER OR WORSE” QUESTIONAIRE

    b@$!Β£dS

  16. Philbert Susa says:

    There is too much land. I’d think the lindens should consider upper limits based on the number of paying residents.

    Maybe give paying residents first opportunity to claim say a 1024 lot, then once all that is done, auction the rest off.

  17. Phil Deakins says:

    @#7

    A region is only part of a server. They put at least 4 regions in each box πŸ˜‰

  18. von Ludwig Lover says:

    What I dont understand is WHY you (LL) allow region (estate owners) to sky rocket their prices, maybe its so they can afford to pay for them being crazy in doing so, why don’t you tell them to keep to your land fee standards, what is wrong with telling your residents to keep the prices the same as you, you tell us what is legal/illegal, bust them for ROBBING us :S, they would still make profit, and if someone is selling, heck even renting 512sqm for MORE than what the land price IS, why dont you reset the parcel when it’s up for sell on the MAINLAND? And the ne continent, heck where’s the SAME prices there, 6.3Lp/L$? RIGHT have a good day everyone ^,^

  19. “No plans to raise in Q1 ’08″….Does this mean in Q2 ’08 we should expect an increase? To some of us that provide public areas, a tier increase could (and will shut down my art sim) prove as a negative impact for the SL residents/public space providers that are non-profit and use the earned income to either pay tier and or better their environment for the SL resis. Lets just hope things don’t increase, as it’s bad enough to pay several hundred USD a month just to keep a public place open for people to enjoy let alone have to spend another 50 or 100 USD more when it DOES increase (not to mention the EU clients that are being forced out of SL business by VAT that was suddenly sprung upon them) after Q1 ’08….

  20. Sin Kovacs says:

    Because they prefer to let the residents solve their own problems. If you get a sim for commercial use it is only understandable that you want the highest return possible. I’m sure you, von, would feel the same way if you had your own sim.

  21. Hey Jack!

    My one concern is private sim owners who want to move from old Class 4 to Class 5 – so far it looks like they have to a) ante up and buy a whole new sim and pay two tiers for months at a time, while they: b) try to sell their old Class Yuk, I mean Class 4 server to someone who would want Old Tech, and also c) rebuild their ENTIRE SIM on the new Class 5.

    This seems.. counter productive. Is there not a way for you to help us here? o.O

  22. Ciaran Laval says:

    @18 It costs One hundred dollars a month more to run an estate than it does to run a mainland sim. I hope that answers your question on why estate land can seem a little more expensive!

  23. Lady Sakai says:

    umm Raven we are paying for the service LL provides … there is VAT on internet service also… (carefull not to fall down your chair when reading this ;)’
    And yes, please bear in mind when you name prices regarding land/sims/tier that some of us actually pay up to 25% more due to the VAT

  24. kittyn fuhr says:

    Remember…i know people get mad when they complain about “prime European evening time”…but it was 10:30, mid morning work hours for US, and something that they would want to get finished before work, AND if there was a problem, they would want to try to get fixed before the end of the work day. This is unfortunate for the European players, but is “prime” time for the workers at LL, instead of most of the people going home, and having it mess up the whole night and into morning, when those workers come back in to work.

  25. Noam says:

    What about server upgrades? Last year you offered one time upgrades for a fee.
    Class 4 servers are hurting.

  26. Poof toonie says:

    About Abandon land…what is the description for abandon land..is it only land that has been given up manually or is it accounts not used in a year? What is the abandon land rule??

  27. Mal says:

    Lemme in!! Loging Failed. No_Inventory_Host.

  28. 77 allstar says:

    I hate them People who Sell Mainland for a lot, like 14L$/sqm and higher, remove them. wo would pay 20000L$ for a 512sqm on Mainland, what them seller dream of at night?

    Last week i helped a new Guy, he was standing on a 2850sqm plot and wanted to buy it, it was for sale at 42000L$. I took that guy with me and sold him land from me, that i sold for 7L$/sqm, he was happy and thanked me.

  29. Mal says:

    that’s a new one. Loing Failed. Unable to connect to simulator.

  30. Mal says:

    Parcels in Shermerville go around 100K for 512 sq m. Insane, isn’t it?

  31. Cernus Piccard says:

    You are dreaming right.

  32. The number that LL sees as the average price-per-square-meter of land is always going to be lower than what you can surmise by doing Land Sales searches. The reason is that landbots scoop up all the cheapest land and all the L$1 mistakes, and this gets factored into LL’s statistics, even if the average resident never gets to buy land that cheap. Average price to the typical resident is generally 1-2 L$ per meter more than LL’s average.

  33. Raven Primeau says:

    Lady Sakai, sadly it seems we pay VAT on about everything maybe even VAT on VAT 😦 *not sure where the Value Added bit comes in though?

    *wonders if it’s worth trying to log in now and see what LL have lost while my Inventory was unavailable*

  34. Mal says:

    @Cernus – not at all..Shermerville is a special LL project – has protected land, roads, playgrounds – like a neighborhood..used to have two parcels there.

  35. Raven Primeau says:

    Nope can’t get on, unable to connect to a sim now,

    Sing along to Sparks *those old enough to remember*

    “AND AMATEUR HOUR GOES ON AND ON, AND ON, AND ON AND ON AND ON!”

  36. Fedaykin Smit says:

    Linden Labs has alot to consider in there pricing. There is Space Rent That many comuters requires large amounts of energy other wise the place would be like a furnace so utilities. Then you have to pay your employees. And considering 2 days ago when I called linden labs to have them help me process my payment I was talking to a real live human being and not a computer with 30 seconds thats alot of employees I doubt the accountant is answering Technical Support Questions. Then Those employees have a federal tax that the employer must match in payment. for a measly 12 employees in my state thats about 1500. Then state tax and unemployment tax. Im betting Linden Labs Pays way more than my state for those to state operated taxes. Then you have your Business Taxes in california im betting thats alot of dough. Next you have insurance. Insurance companies have codes for your employees clasifications for the employment insurance which Technical Jobs pay much more for insurance than say 18 year old 7-11 clerk. Business Insurance. Office Machines COmputer Repair. The list goes on and on.

    The fact that I can sit down and relax makes all of this worth it.

  37. Fedaykin Smit says:

    NM the spelling errors im at work and distracted

  38. Rascal Ratelle says:

    Log ins are still down unable to log in despite the grid being reopend

  39. ONE PO'd RESIDENT says:

    @15
    OHH! AND THANK YOU FOR THE WARNING ON DOWNTIME, KICKED OFF THE GRID WHILE ENTERING A COMMENT HERE, RIGHT ON PRIME EURO EVENING TIME AGAIN I SEE. KEEP THE AMERICANS HAPPY AND KICK THE EUROPEANS AGAIN IS IT?????? RIGHT AFTER FILLING THE β€œIS YOUR SL EXPERIENCE GETTING BETTER OR WORSE” QUESTIONAIRE

    THEY KICKED US AMERICANS TO SO DONT WHINE

  40. KittyCat Rosebud says:

    #7–
    Doing the math they provided,.. they have about..

    250,000,000 meters

    Or about 3814 Regions

    If all those Regions were Mainland ( which they aren’t)

    1,144,200 USD

    But many of those are 3 times that in price.

    Plus there are set up fees and people paying for Lindens and some other things.

    It’s likely most of their employees are Volunteers and I’m seeing more like 1-250 Mill USD being bought and spent a day over the past couple years.

  41. Avion Raymaker says:

    I don’t really get the huge fuss about land prices. Profit depends much more on your monthy tier payment. The base price of the land only affects how long it would take for you to recoup that initial payout.

    There will always be more expensive land around based on its desirability, no matter what the base price is. Worrying about the value of land at the low end is putting a lot of time and effort into the junkiest parts of the mainland, which are best avoided anyway.

  42. Desmond Shang says:

    Thank you Jack, thank you Linden Research Inc!

    That is a wise course for the near future, greatly appreciated and a boon to continued economic prosperity everywhere.

    Warm regards and happy holidays from Caledon!

    Desmond Shang

  43. Peggy Paperdoll says:

    I get a kick out all the comments about VAT and how LL should “help you out”. VAT is a tax placed on Europeans by their governments…….Linden Lab had absolutely nothing to do with it. Seems some think LL should pay those taxes for the folks who’s governments have imposed it on them. How stupid is that? As for the private island owners renting, selling or leasing land to others for huge profits……..if those who rent, buy or lease at that price are willing to pay that much what’s wrong with it? Why should LL police it? If you don’t like the price then don’t pay it……the price will fall if enough follow that policy. Same with Mainland prices……too high? Don’t buy it.

    I can’t understand everyone getting their collctive panties all wadded up over news that actually is quite good as far as price increases are concerned. And I also can’t understand why some think it’s their “right” to know exactly how much it costs LL to run SL……..Does any private business publish their overhead for the general public and customers to see? None that I know of.

  44. KittyCat Rosebud says:

    — I need to add… that’s per Month, not per year.

    If all the Estimated number of Regions were Mainland they would be getting 13,730,400 USD a year from Land Fees.

    It sounds like alot and they have more things giving them money, but their employees ( the ones not Volunteering) probably get 20k – 2 mill a year and most Service Providers for “games” like this where they need servers stored like to over price for poor service. They have good service so they are probably paying ten to twenty-five times as much as they are supposed to.

  45. Raven Primeau says:

    @40 YEAH and what time were you kicked, whi;le still at work/school etc not prime time like Euro

  46. Tanya Spinotti says:

    @18

    Wow! Some rant. Call me crazy, if you will, but if a landowner charges “too much” for their land, why would you stay there? I have people come to my rental sim and say “Wow! So much cheaper than x”; I also get people who say “Wow! So expensive here”. Vote with your feet, my friend…vote with your feet.

  47. Ahzzmandius Werribee says:

    For you all paying for land in euros. you are paying almost 20% less than you did in Jan 2006 based on USD/EUR exchange rate data.

    For those paying in GBP. You’re paying about 15% less.

    So, subtract the VAT tax rate from the percentage above in your currency. Is there percent difference leftover? If so, then you are paying LESS (unless you are getting hosed royally in currency conversions). If the result is negative, then that is the percentage MORE that you are paying today than if you were paying back in Jan 06.

    So please. ENOUGH already about the griping about VAT this and that for private islands and lindens etc. The price will continue to drop in Euros and British Pounds as the US Dollar resumes it’s downwards valuation against the rest of the world. If only us Americans were so lucky as to be in your position…

  48. Thank you! Thats a sigh of relief =^.^= great news!

  49. Ahzzmandius Werribee says:

    FYI, the last results of requesting all regions in SL returns 15,489 known named regions in all of SL. I don’t know how many are mainland, how many are public islands, and how many are true private islands.

    Maybe someone with a landbot would be kind enough to post that breakdown? πŸ™‚

  50. Barton Dowd says:

    Last time horizon for no price change was 13 months. Now 3 1/2 months. Expect tier and prices to increase and value to fall as a result after Q1. And by adding new regions and additional abandoned land and you can count on it further price compression.

  51. KittyCat Rosebud says:

    Personally 5L per Meter for Mainland sounds like a good balanced price since people want to buy at 1-3L a meter and people want to sell for 10L per meter ( and land barons would be estatic to get it back up to 25-100L like they manage those rare times).

    But what you really should think of is what that translates to Real Life money. Since the USD is not as valueable as it use to be, people in other Countries have been getting plenty of Land now and I often get comments like ” It’s only the price of a Pizza”.

    Sure,.. if I was paying Euros instead of USD for the total of my Pizza without convertion I could own a little land. But for the land I want with USD it would cost me a weeks Groceries in my household.. which has three adults. (I’m working this out by devideing our grocery bill in half.. we go to the store twice a month). What people compare to a pizza really converts to what we pay at a good resturant for three adults plus tip.

  52. @Ahzzmandius, that was an excellent argument! Thank you for putting some reality back into this πŸ™‚

    Now don’t give LL any crazy ideas… they could consider starting to fix prices in Euros instead πŸ˜‰

    As for figuring out how much it costs to run LL’s operation, some tentative summing up of all the costs and expected income was posted here. Make sure you read the comments section too, lots of corrections and alternate calculations instead. The information is slightly dated (SL continues to grow and grow) but you can extrapolate from there.

  53. Yami Katayama says:

    @44 – I agree with you whole heartedly! The VAT is NOT something that LL has put on people, it’s put there by the governments they live under, and LL is required to pay that tax right back to those governments, it’s not like they get to keep it. Overall, I think this is good news, but just like most postings, no one can say anything good about good news around here, it’s no wonder LL closes comments on so many things. Because if this is the reaction they can expect from good news, imagine what is going to be said for bad news and leaving comments open! Come on people, I don’t normally have much good to say about LL, but even I don’t complain about EVERY post they make!

    As far as those who got kicked off, it’s not like people at LL decided “Let’s just kick some people off for fun” – or worse – “Let’s kick some Europeans off for fun” – there was a problem that precipitated them having to close it off for a SMALL PORTION of people to fix it. It’s painfully obvious that those “Europeans” were not around when the grid was taken down for 12 hours a day every week, or when a problem like this would take the entire grid down for hours at a time. Sorry that this is prime time for you – it’s working hours in California where LL is located. Don’t like it – log out

  54. Harwood Hax says:

    would be glad to pay a higher tier……

    …. if you increase prim allowance..

    …. if something could be done to extinguish class 4’s and get everything on class 5’s..

    …. if Havok was released… (providing this is going to clear up as much lag as people believe)

    … if LL instituted some programs to HELP residents (dont take that as derogatory.. read on.. ) such as building classes in-world, anti-lag classes in-world, general help with LIVE people (more than just a handful of mentors on help island.. thats a great idea… EXPAND IT!!!!)

    generally, what im saying is i think people would be more comfortable accepting a higher tier fee if things were VISIBLY being done. sadly.. for such an amazing forum that has such unlimited potential, and vast resources, i think the biggest thing its missing is LIVE HELP!!! the mentor idea is wonderful… DO SOMETHING MORE WITH IT!!

    something like a few sims set aside as linden land that hosted a builder or two to teach new people/people new to building would GREATLY affect lag issues, residents more confident and comfortable in what theyre doing as well as understanding, a huge reduction in careless prim usage and builds.. the list could go on and on. and yes, i do realize there are plenty of places that offer this already.. but im talking about LINDEN LAB official ones!! with the kind of money this game has to be generating.. it would cost a mere sliver of it to do something like this.

    as far as cost and land value..
    .. just a thought..
    whats going to keep this going in the future is the continued addition of new people coming into SL.. i realize people want to make money.. i realize people want to get back their investment in what they paid for their land, i for one would like to see the value of my land continue to raise.. but new people to SL arent going to pay astronomical values for something they dont even know how to use.. thats the real side of it.
    i think LL should come up with a way to let new players buy a cheaper land, theres many ways to do it.. i can come up with a few of my own, but the point is making a fair way (maybe with the verification process… registering a name as being new to SL) to keep prices for existing regions, while creating a system for the newer player to come into the game.. not have to spend a fortune while learning what there is out there (even as a trial or temporary basis… > Egg. 3 months, then recycle to someone new) that way it would alleviate the problem of keeping land at a decent enough price for the new breed of SL , while not killing the people in SL for the real-estate value.

    a final thought..

    land bots..
    if you look at this system as a whole.. it is extremely detrimental to all concerned.. every auction site ive ever seen, online site, whatever has done away with “shark” programs for a reason .. it only makes it valuable to the smaller percentage using it.. while deterring the rest of the people from creating bigger projects and becoming more of a long-timer. is it a “good” thing to people using it?? sure.. is it “fair”.. of course not..
    is it good for the designers to let people have an advantage and/or manipulate the economy as a whole simply because they have more money than someone else.. all the while losing more and more people every day because its becoming too expensive to start up a project because someone else is manipulating things to their favor just to make a profit… ignoring the greater good of the long term effects out of simple greed?? i think that question answers itself..

    something a lot of people have learned about that the hard way.. the greedy people that are/would do something like that have no interest in the long term interests of the game.. once things go bad.. theyre just going to bail out and head for higher ground.. and why not.. they are just in it for the money in the first place anyway…

    so who do you stand behind?? ….

    ok.. sorry about war and peace there..
    just had a lot to say..

    LL, at this point in the game, i think you should be looking into the long-term side of things… you took a stand on the gambling issue.. and believe it or not.. people were proud of you for it.. a lot of us saw through the whining and realized that it was a stand for the long-term safety of it all.. take a lead from that one.. and please do us right… you built this house.. we just want to see you keep it standing..

    ok.. my fingers are numb ;p

    H.H.

  55. Chance Unknown says:

    You think all land sales are performed with the assistance of the land search tool? Nope. LL has access to complete transaction purchase information, so it takes into account even transactions where a land barron does a buyback from you at 1/10th the price you paid.

  56. Tanya Spinotti says:

    @48 and 53 – Sounds a great argument doesn’t it? And, if all money from Europeans going in to SL was coming from outside of SL it would stack up…but it doesn’t work that way.
    I bought my land converting GBP to USD and, yes, I got a good price. Problem comes that I don’t pay any tier with GBP. It all comes from converting L$ to USD. In this scenario, no conversion rates come in to it so I have to charge 17.5% more than an American region owner to provide the same service. How can I compete? It’s that which is the unfair part. I use the same process to buy and sell L$; I don’t convert it back in to GBP, but I still have to pay more. Charge me VAT when I convert USD to GBP and put the money back in to the British Economy, but don’t charge me for trading in L$ & USD.

  57. Accasbel Barrymore says:

    AOL / “Me too” on the comments re “Average Mainland Price”.
    Currently, there are only 3 mainland plots under 8/m, and they are 7.9
    That’s for plots 512 and over though.

    There are 16m ad plots priced at 7.5 and up πŸ™‚
    Well, who’d a thunk??? Business must be real bad in ad-land. I do *not* want to even look at something an ad farmer is trying to dump at 7.5 I’d probably need to go and have a lie down and/or a drink afterwards.

    Going back a month…… Uncertainty …..
    We still have a lot of unnamed water sims that might or might not end up as Protected.
    …… Pretty please ?????

  58. Ciaran Laval says:

    @48 you do understand that exchange rates work two ways don’t you? People who are in the lucky position of having enough leftover to take money out of the world (I wish!) are getting less for their dollar if they’re in the UK or mainland Europe, so this idea that the exchange rate is great for them is not exactly accurate.

  59. John Toonie says:

    Heres my question? what right does LL have to include private island sales in their companies land sales reports? They don’t own those lands (they own the servers, not the sim), so they shouldn’t be figured into their 6.3 land average at all.

    If you want to impress someone with your numbers LL, average out the land SOLD on MAINLAND for last quarter. That will give you a correct perspective on what the market is doing.

  60. 60 is correct, the actual mainland average is about 8L$/sm. The difference between this real average and the reported average (which is caused by estates transferring rented land for 0 L$ as well as land sold via paypal rather than via L$) causes a disconnect in which landbots are able to profit upon people who are not aware of this differentiation.

    So long as LL continues this practice however, there is a market opportunity for a land futures market, which is what we are developing at Ancapistan Capital Exchange (ACE), http://www.ancapex.com

    People deserve to see what the market truly values land at, as well as where the market feels prices are going.

  61. Nikos Alexandre says:

    Ok .. some lots are expensive, some are cheap. What needs to be done though is prim alllowance. We invest a whole lot of REAL money and cannot build more that 117prims on a 512. Common people … LL should reconsider this policy of theirs and allow more.

  62. Firelight Simca says:

    Thanks for letting us know.

  63. Tegg B says:

    Raven Primeau Says: OHH! AND THANK YOU FOR THE WARNING ON DOWNTIME, KICKED OFF THE GRID WHILE ENTERING A COMMENT HERE, RIGHT ON PRIME EURO EVENING TIME AGAIN I SEE. KEEP THE AMERICANS HAPPY AND KICK THE EUROPEANS AGAIN IS IT?????? RIGHT AFTER FILLING THE β€œIS YOUR SL EXPERIENCE GETTING BETTER OR WORSE” QUESTIONAIRE

    They must think Australia is in Europe because us Australians seem to have got kicked off too.

    Anyone know if all those $1M 16m plots the AdFarmers have drive the average price up?

  64. Kenny Stringer says:

    Were you geting 6.3 from
    BEst i Seen is 8.4 The Rest is ad CRAO LAND land !!!

  65. Land Shepherd says:

    Does the 6.3/sq.m. figure include sales made to individuals for L$0 or L$1? I sometime sell land to myself for L$0 if I need to get it out of group ownership. There are also other reasons why residents make L$0 or L$1 sales. I’m not sure these sales should be included in the average.

  66. Blinders Off says:

    @7 Anna: right on the button.

    One of the biggest mistakes LL ever made in allowing their system to grow was in creating a structure in which land itself became the ruling element of life on Second Life, and Land Barons the “kings” around which all pricing must be formed.

    Considering that LL stacks 4 sims to a server, they could charge $95 a sim, reduce that to 3 sims per server, and still make a good profit. $295 a month + $1650 setup fee is the cost of a new car. GET A REALITY CHECK PEOPLE.

    Consider it: 10,000 sims x $95 a month… $950 K a month. Almost a million. Does it cost a million a month to run Linden Lab? And how many more people would own sims if LL was to cancel “setup fees”. If LL charged $95 a month to host a sim, period, stacked 4 sims to a server, they’d be pulling in $285 a month per server box. That’s just in “hosting” fees. Doesn’t count how much they make on the side in all the other services they charge for.

    The biggest detriment to SL at this time are the ungodly, absurdist, excessive fees they charge for sims. There are some who are foolish enough to pay such fees, just as there are some who will pay a quarter million for an automobile. But that market is limited, and relatively few, and is why SL only boasts a few thousand sims instead of a few HUNDRED THOUSAND.

    LL priced themselves out of the market from day one. And that is why eventually, someone smarter and better is gonna come along and eat their lunch.

  67. Blinders Off says:

    Oops, that’s what I get writing on the fly. Math correction: if LL charged $95 a month, stacking 4 sims to a server, they would earn $380 a month in hosting fees for a single server box. Not bad at all.

    (Frankly, I think they should stack 3 sims to a server and give the server box a little wiggle room).

    They currently charge $1,650 to “set up” a sim. But they don’t give that sim its own dedicated server.. they stack 4 to a box. That means they’re charging $6,600 to set up a single quad-core server. Just a little bit of profit there, eh?

    They should swallow the cost of the server as operating cost (which cost would quickly be absorbed by hosting fees), charge $95 a month per sim, and thereby open up SL to some REAL activity.

    Maybe they intentionally charged $295 a sim to keep quantities low, because they know they can’t handle real traffice. But for sure, that $295 fee is part of what is keeping Second Life a Second-Rate system user-wise.

  68. bahiRD Oyen says:

    Wow.. This time it took 15 posts to go completely off topic ! An improvement !

    Unscheduled downtime. Think on those words.. hard maybe.. but think. Unscheduled = not planned. How does an unplanned event equal being a planned international, affront?
    Oh, and a lot of us on this side of the pond got the boot too. Add the Aussies to that list! Add everyone to that list! We’re offended.. we’re affronted!! Call out the executioners!!

    VAT.. LL didn’t make that decision and don’t exactly pocket the income from it. Contact your local parlimentary representitive. It drives the price up for you but think on it this way.. the BGP is valued at double the USD so by our standards.. dollar for pound.. you’re paying half what an American is. Aarrgghh.. I’m affronted.. again… why isn’t this recalculated so I’m paying as many dollars as those across the pond are paying pounds?? Ahem.. nuff said.

    Lindens have said they’ve decided to keep the pricing as its been. Not included in that are second, third and fourth party profit margins which is where the land values get driven to absurd levels. It isn’t developed land.. no landscaping.. no pretty waterfalls come with.. no covenants in place which keep your land from being surrounded by twirling whirlybird bigger than life eyesore advertising signs we all hate and avoid. Not to mention detest the ppl behind their presence and after a very short time in SL refuse to do business with..

    I have no complaints over the elements Linden’s have used to calculate the prices for auctioned land. Auctioned.. mind you that means a base figure which can and does usually rise and go to the highest bidder.

    The auctioned mainland isn’t the top of the barrel.. you take your chances and the base price is set accordingly.

    Just my two penneth worth.

  69. edxgein soderstrom says:

    how about some more land teir levels so some one who is in the $40 a month teir and wants a little more land doesent have to jump all the way to $75 a month

  70. just me says:

    you people whining about the low dollar and how cheap it is for us europeans really piss me off, blame your government not us.
    im still better of to rent land from an american or buy it with non-european alt because of that vat shit.
    i was planning to pay my tier from lindens earned ingame so that money was nowhere near europe at any time so why is there vat?

  71. Argent Stonecutter says:

    I’ve noticed a few parcels being transferred to Governor Linden. Unfortunately the land settings on them weren’t changed at the same time… they REALLY need to be set with a short autoreturn when they are transferred to the Governor, so some smart-ass doesn’t come along and fill them up… turning any Linden roads in the same sim into vehicle-eating traps.

  72. KittyCat Rosebud says:

    62 —
    That is the most common complaint I hear from everyone to rent or own on SL. No matter how much land they own, no matter how much they plan to get, no matter how much room their products, homes, or other items/structures take up.

    71–
    Yes, please. Turn on Auto Return. Set it for a long time but set it. People are useing the land for free land, advertisements, attacks, lag induceing, distractions… etc. I’m sick of people’s floating fire, weapon traps, vehicals, looped noise makers, advertisements, mis placed items, …etc.. some times filling up with over 300 prims and particles spewing.

  73. There is a lot more abandoned land right now than there will be in the future because of all the people who bought First Land 512s in the summer and fall of 2006 for about $1.75 in RL money, and then stopped playing. (Everyone who started playing since about Christmas 2006, which is most of the current population, paid more like $15-$25 for their starter lots… which means when and if they leave SL they are less likely to decide to just walk away from their assets without liquidating them and/or giving them away to friends.)

    I can’t fault Governor Linden for putting just a little bit of land out at a time so as not to glut the market…. BUT in the meantime, couldn’t she send her minions out to clear the prim litter and pyramid vendors from the lots? If you ask her, she will usually send someone out… but asking her is a somewhat cumbersome process which involves submitting a support ticket.

  74. bettinatizzy says:

    Jack, please contact me in-world. There is an abandoned parcel that is standing in the way of an amazing build. Many thanks

  75. Drongle MacMahon says:

    I don’t see how it can be in the interests of LL to aid and encourage those who are in SL to take profit from land dealing. If these people are successful, it follows that their net effect is to take money out of the SL pot (at least in the restricted context of their land dealings). Unless they somehow increase income to the pot by an amount larger than they take, then they are directly reducing LL’s share of the pot. It is clear that good content creators can increase the pot by creating and satisfying demand from other residents. But land dealers do not create anything. They just make land more expensive and thus less attractive to the rest of us. If anything that must reduce the pot as well as reducing LL’s share of it. Why then does LL see it as being in their interest to manipulate the land price for the benefit of land dealers when that is to their own financial detriment? I am sure I must be stupidly missing something here. I would be interested to know what.

  76. Ham Wilber says:

    Couple of points.

    First, regarding prices of land being resold by residents. Who cares what the asking price is? If it’s too high, it won’t sell. It’s a supply and demand economy. Don’t buy it if it’s too much. A simple argument, I know, and one which doesn’t consider Linden sales of new regions, but still, let’s not have LL fix our resale prices! We don’t have an economy then.

    Second, Raven is right re: Tier level steps. Let’s have something between what we have now. It would encourage small increases by us small land owners, instead of keeping us from buying more land.

    And Third, Yes, more prims, as Nikos says! Please! As our object creators get more creative (redundant?) more prims would make SL more useful, or just more fun.

  77. Jamie David says:

    Simpily put I forsee land prices going the same way housing prices are in the US. People are building their own sims and grids. Land Barons are most likely keeping the price higher than it should. They have to or they stand to loose in a big way it they allow the market to crash.

    I would not be too supprised either to see LL moving to Euro based charges as the US$ falls and falls. In past 6 months alone the US$ has lost 7% and international bankers feel it will loose another 14% in the next 6 months and some are saying 25+%. The Greenback is quickly loosing it’s status as the Reserve Currency of the world to the Euro.

    Airbus it thinking of moving production to the US to remain competitive and enjoy lower costs in labour. Many an american company have moved offshore to protect against currency losses. LL would be smart to do so. More european users than American so each month LL looses as US$ falls, rest of the world pays less and less and Americans pay the same. Costs for International operations, UK billing, European hosting and bandwidth go up in US$ costs.

    I think this is why the VAT disaster. Someone had the great idea of moving international billing to the UK to be able to keep the income as EU$ or UK Pounds. Didn’t realize that in doing so there would be VAT. Opps we owe VAT in UK and EU so better pass it on to the consumers.

    Just my humble opinion.
    Jamie

  78. fedUP_with_life says:

    it seems linden you are opening up bigger and bigger and bigger cans of worms
    of sam’s club economy size and it appears economys are slowing down one possible outcome of these decisions you make as a company can result in serious consumer backlash is people WILL create there OWN sl grid servers and go FREE public in result to your management practices.

    as a side note. ATTN, FOREIGNERS

    STOP WHINEING ABOUT VAT TAXES AND COSTS FROM YOUR COUNTRYS you had your chances to pick your govt systems and you chose
    socialism v2.5 Light edition REAP WHAT YOU SOW, LIE IN BED YOU MAKE, you made the poo pile YOU SMELL IT YOU SIT IN IT YOU DEAL WITH IT!

    and stop shoveing your problems down others ppls throats.

  79. Ham Wilber says:

    Fedup — I, for one, would prefer not to use a free public SL. I imagine it supported by banner ads, because nothing is truly free. And the advertisers would be the customer, not the residents. LL is not perfect, but I prefer being the customer.

    My 2cents.

  80. Ziggy March says:

    What about those people who used to pay +- 40k per 1024sq.m only like 6 to 9 months ago and can’t get rid of there land now without loosing big ass money on there so called investment? are we just left out in the cold or what? Some jackass offert me 65k last night for 8352 sq.m !!! WTF thats what we and i payed per 2048sq.m for mature class 5 mainland… makes me regret i ever started the hole sl cartoon … its just a total rippoff !!! i rather divide it in a bunch of 16sq.m plots and sell it to advertisers that selling it to some jackass who will sell it over priced later on anyway or abandon it to LL and have em make more cash on my back…no way !!! 48$ tier for for a crappy cartoon … pfff whatever…investment … get a grip LL and give us or $ back…

  81. Alan Bamboo says:

    Will be fun to watch Whole Sims up for auction again in January…if the time is right.

    Will we be seeing who the winning bidder is ???

    Is the auction site going to be revised ???

  82. Ric Mollor says:

    Blinders Off said it all. Virtual land is not the issue here it’s the cost for hosting on a fractional server. Unless there is some huge hidden cost (peering?) Linden Labs is making a killing fleecing the masses.

    The cost for land should be plummeting as computer power rises. Since it is not it would be reasonable to assume that LL’s profit per region is rising.

    Sooner or later another company will see the gravy here and offer a SL ‘work alike’ for half the cost. Or less.

    Wonder how loyal the userbase will be when that happens? πŸ™‚

  83. Ann Otoole says:

    if LL can prevent a total recession in sl against the impending depression in the USA then i say the LL economist needs to go run the US economy. and heck, may as well let the LL programmers write all the software for the US while we are at it. that would be an improvement eh?

    as for people complaining about buying land when the prices were high… well you now have a taste for US real estate market conditions. loads of people with expensive house now worth half of what the mortgage is. the only solution is simple. dump and cut your losses now or sit on it and hope for something good to happen that makes sl super popular again.

  84. Ham Wilber says:

    Right on Ann!

  85. Chaley May says:

    I dont like that they say AVERAGE L$6.3/m when that has never been and will never be average price. Thats the lowest price for land people can expect to be paying.. and right now the lowes has been 7.5L$/m which means the average would be significantly higher.

    They need to start auctioning a lot more land to get it back to 6.3L$/m for the lowest priced land.

  86. Peggy Paperdoll says:

    How many times have any of you land “owners” set your land for sale to an alt or trusted friend for 0 (zero) lindens in order to get it out of group owned or simply to get out of tier or any other reason. Most of the time you do that it takes 2 transactions to get it back to yourself. A couple of those deals on even a 512 meter plot will bring down the average $L per meter quite quickly. You’re questioning figures presented with absolutely no way of having all the facts about them. Showing total ignorance on your part of what you are taking about. Until you get true facts on ALL land transactions it’s best to keep your feet out of your mouths.

  87. Dadreena Jewell says:

    And yet, people still buy and sell, eh? That’s why SL continues to do what they do. That’s why SL continues to fleece us like they do.

    Folks – myself included – come here to whine and bitch and moan…and yet…we all continue to do exactly what we do – what they expect that we will do – while we are happily whining and bitching and moaning…

    lol

  88. SNIM Oh says:

    @69

    Your Right about the Unscheduled Maintenance… there was obviously no intentional disruption meant to any users, it’s just one of those things.

    But about the VAT i think you got it wrong, we may pay half what you pay due to the GBP being double the value of USD right now but when converting it back we get Half back so that makes it come out pretty even.
    The VAT is then charged on top which means that we are still losing out.

    Basically makes it even harder for us to make nay profit, lol.

    (pound is going to start falling soon so keep your money in USD or L$ and convert back later to gain maximum profit ;D )

  89. Anny Helsinki says:

    Where do i find the 1.18.3(5) for Mac?

    A friend of mine needs it … he has a new mac and cant come online with the actual viewer.

  90. I think they need to lower island/tier;
    TG residents economy is horrible because TEENS can’t afford this pricing now to adress the fact that it would tempt adults to get on the TG to get an island and stuff. It’s called indentification as in they have to send in there drivers license/ID or something of the sort and realize/sign a contract that any time that an island transfers to the MG there tier fee will become the 295$/mo. fee. As of right now ONE island has been transferred from TG to MG and ONE is coming up; Now you can not tell me that lowering the teens pricing a bit can’t help the TG economy because it will. As of right now we have like 12 Private Islands && we have to bulk ALL our pricing to outrageously low prices, why?, BECAUSE THE ECONOMY STINKS. Help make the economy better. Pay a bit more attention to the fact that the Teen Grid is teens and that teens dont have a buncha money. Another thing you could do is make that all ages thing >_>, wich would take like what? a day of dedicated work.
    That’s all i gotta say.

  91. Beta X says:

    can’t wait till LL starts to “warn” people for selling 16m parcels for 999,999L$ and stoping ubsurd pricing for a “Cleaner SL” if that’s possible (yes it is) πŸ™‚

  92. I’m guessing more people would be willing to start paying land tier fees if you could actually hold a lot more land for a low price.

    Also, more people would probably become Premium users if you could actually hold a decently-sized amount of land, like maybe 4096 m2, for no additional land tier fees.

    Being able to have a decent amount of land without having to pay a lot extra per month would definitely be more fun for the customers and might attract many more paying users to Second Life.

    Not sure if doing that would be better or worse for Linden Labs’ bottom line or not, but, just some ideas.

  93. Jen says:

    @80 agreed. Time to cut our losses, liquidate, and stop paying the lindens tier.

  94. Slartibartfast Magicthise says:

    Still is the only client that crashes at log-in screen on my machine.

    iMac
    2Gigs RAM
    Intel Core 2 Duo
    2.16 GHz
    ATY,RadeonX1600

  95. Slartibartfast Magicthise says:

    oops
    wrong thread

  96. MODIFY::
    ALSO;
    The fact of the matter is there are more ADULT owned private islands on the TEEN grid than there is on the entire TEEN mainland.
    Think about that for a sec.

  97. Beta X says:

    well, when SL gets class (cough millions in revenue free open sorce squid cache CHOUGH) then hey i guess prising could be easyer for us the user, but hey, greed kills friendlyness and raises tempers :))

  98. KittyCat Rosebud says:

    88–

    The US has Higher Taxes. Those don’t get figured in but people have to file SL as Taxes when their spending reaches over 500 USD.

    So people in the US still have Taxes of their own to pay.

    The lowest Tax I can think of is Sales Taxe.. which is about 6.7 or 6.9 % ( they just changed it). Whenever you buy something from certain places ( like stores and companies) you are supposed to pay this. On top of that certain States and Counties have additional Taxes… if you live within certain States and buy or sell anything you are supposed to pay 2-10% on top of the 6.-something% and some other Taxes.

    We are all use to being taxed and there are always people whineing that there should be no taxes and that they want taxes reduced and no new taxes and so forth. But we still have our taxes, our bad economy, everything over priced, our Internet is actually slower then yours and can be up to ten times as much.

    In short,.. don’t complain and even with the VAT the people with EUROS are still buying the most land right now because you still are paying less and will containue to until 1.5-2.5 Euro = 1 USD

    Then we will be even.

  99. mimi says:

    They try to keep prices low so they wont lose more money to all the residents dumping their lands because of the age verification

    It is still not clear how ‘voluntarily’ land flagging is, just like with most important things linden lab ignores our questions and handles things in the most terrible way possible (like the way the VAT was unnacounced.. pushing many residents to get rid of their land in 14 days or pay lots of extra money)

    Land prices are way not 6.3, but they will lower because lots of residents will quit anyhow

    Linden labs doesnt ever seems to learn from their mistakes.. as soon as competition comes up land prices will reduce to zero

  100. Jane says:

    That sounds not bad, but in some regions are the prices per qm always too high – landlords or greedy dealers would kill a sensible trading of land. I think the best thing you can do is to start in the closer future a land reform so that residents cant split plots smaller then 1024qm. That prevents excessive prices for smaller lots then smaller plots then 1024 cant made. That means that the balance for the same size of land can be better checked out and landbuyers would dont buy expensive land so that prices go to an average level. But this doesnt mean, that linden increases the tier for land. Let the tier for 1024 on the level of 512 lots and anything would be better.

  101. Weedy says:

    A million sq meters. .4% not small? That is 1/220 of the the land base, which is one of the singlemost largest land tiers, which is unpaid for more than a year in many cases. Residents managed abandoned land alot better than the current system, which draws otherwise needed staff away from other issues.

    I thought Philip said “These things are better managed by the residents themselves”?

    This is a classic case of co-option and LL competing with it’s own residents.

  102. Darius Lehane says:

    Huh? 6.3L/m? You won’t find a single parcel of 1024 or larger mature land for less that 8.0L/m. Maybe they are factoring in islands who sell for 0L and just pay tier.

    Whatever stats they have and whatever search in-world shows are two completely different things.

  103. Phoenix Mcgann says:

    to answer #18 I have land, I set a price on it, If I set it too high compared to everyone else then it doesnt move and I lose out, I set it too low, then it sells but i lose out. Now, you come along and see a price thst you consider too high. Fine, walk on by hon, none of your hard earned readies come to me you re not robbed you just dont becoeme another customer to me.That’s how markets work.

    Oh and as for robbery, I have an unbroken policy for the two years plus i’ve been doing this of never raising prices on an exiting tenant, I have tenants that go back over a year, the longest term one to date went back nearly two years. They are stil paying the original rate i charged back then which is waaay under what the current market is averaging, Robbery? Nope, can’t see that. My way may not be the way others do it but any landowner who is runnng at over 90-95% full the majority of the time must be doing something right in my view and the something certainly isnt anythig remotely like robbery!!

    r
    r

  104. Aeper Jie says:

    Umm. The Tg Land price is at 4L per m. So why does the Main Grid Affect the Tg? We are not full of Porn. thats how they make money and by uploading L. We dont have alot of that. So if you do this. it will Kill the Teen Grid Even More.

  105. brinda allen says:

    6.3 a meter? where? ..more like 9 to 10. and i have been blackmailed ,so to speak, “I’ll sell you this 128 for 15L$ meter…..or I’ll slpit it into 16’s and sell it fror ad farms.” Right next door to my 13000 meter park/residential area.

  106. Varik Marat says:

    I’m just a little two region guy who doesnt really keep up with land prices. I will say this, however. If my tier goes up…I’ll be gone….

  107. Beta X says:

    aaaaaaaa, lol, good point #102, they figured that in the hours spent online thing too while back, i will say though, there’s times i agree 100% on linden only side, and sometimes i disagree with them intirly based on simple moral factors, like users getting away with “hacker gaming revenue” wake up LL! πŸ˜€

    *slams the eye to eye equal human book on the table*

    i gon’t usually post coments this “emotionaly” but come on, you actually allow this considering you’r on TV shows where people descuss you’r company (as if i’m standing right there in that office saying it… staring at the whole scene), come (dot dot dot dot dot ) on lol, but hey this is television to now LL lol. not just the viewer (hudges shoulder uncomfortable in “come on and see the point” manner)

    well, hey, luck be to you and your land hackers, in world TOS script violators, copy bots, texture theft, and TV rewiew lol!

    (2 thumbs up for the classesr users and geniuses of SL, and 4 thumbs down for LL on the “current SL” front of user/vs quality gaming)

  108. I just got a free 112 sq m piece from a neighbour who wanted to tier down just now. I made a quick sale out of old main land to new by selling to a neighbour at avg price 7 L$. Price has been average 6.9 for a while. Now I call that 7 not 6. But my one purchase today at 0L$ pushes the average down. But ya the adverts owner in our PG sim will sell their 48 sq m lot for 27,000 L$. Ok beside a road but still 27,000 L$ for 48 sq m?

    I also want community planning and we might have a real road although grass road is nice too.

  109. How long will other region owners have to subsidize Anshe?

  110. Chaos Kilara says:

    Wow, yeah I dont know but about land prices but I do know it seems its cheaper at private regions . I bought land on a private region at the beginning of the year which cost me 30k for a 4096 sq. m, now its like 15k for the same amount of land. Tier fee are somewhat high at about 8k per month. Some how renting land seems better than buying, but both renthign and buying have there pros and cons.

  111. Digital Digital says:

    Right now I have a class “4” island sim, I’m on the grandfathered of 195 a month, I am very happy to see there are no pricing changes. I am very happy with what I get for 195.00 I would pay no more then what I am paying now, so hopefully the prices won’t change. I really enjoy being an estate owner.

    Thank you linden lab πŸ™‚

  112. Montana Corleone says:

    You are all missing the point: L$6.3 is the average price paid to Linden. Of course if you buy it privately it will cost more, as the parasite land sellers add on their “profit” margin for providing diddly squat added value.

    I’m surprised you only have a million sq m of abandoned land, in some places you see Governor Linden land all over the place, reclaimed from land speculators who got in at the high end of the market before the bubble burst. However that is not the whole story, there are huge wedges of empty plots everywhere, even many of Anshe’s sims are three quarters empty because you have simply pushed out way to much land for the market to sustain, the only people holding it being speculators.

    Of course, if you did as has been suggested, worked on fixes, instead of adding new shinies, or disastrous ideas like the not-working Age Verification, there might be more incentive for people to stay and actually spend money, rather than the economy continuing to falter and fail. Even kindergarten kids can see the connection, but not it seems the LL prima donnas.

    Maybe you have realised though, if the flurry of recent attempts to tell us stuff is anything to go by. However, that still leaves the stuff to be actually fixed, like crashes, network load, tp failures, stuff up the ass, balances disapppearing, inventory loss, unscheduled downtimes that were supposed to be a thing of the past etc etc.

    Now while we’re at it, and talking of those ugly empty spaces, when are you going to get around to building the roads on all those sims you hurriedly pushed out to make a quick buck on? True, roads are essentially useless since we tp (if it’s working) and vehicles are largely useless due to ban lines, and probably will get worse if the Mature flags in Age Verification ever take off, but the land is assigned, but zero roads built on many sims more than a year old. Just ugly gashes and scars across the countryside.

    And the $64,000 question, this all seems to be about land prices per se. What about tier charges? Are they staying the same? I assume so, because I can’t otherwise figure out what grandfathered islands have to do with land prices, but it is not very clear. Are you saying there will be no increase in tier at least until the end of Q1 2008?

    When you announced Voice, you said that it would be free at first, then we would pay for it by increased tier. Is it because Voice has been a spectacular failure that you are not increasing tier charges in February like I understand is the norm each year, or is this a polite way of saying we”ll keep land purchase prices similar, but reserve the right to change tier?

    I think we should be told…

  113. Pseudoanne Bailey says:

    Having just had my 512 Estate plot stolen by shady Estate Owners, (Kejo Merlin and Stetson Rail), I wont by buying Estate land again. My interest in land is not in the area, but the prim limits. What to do when you run out of prims? Buy more land. Land = Prims in my maths. Is this ever going to change? I dont need 1000’s of acres but i do need 1000’s of prims.

  114. Seraph Nephilim says:

    How do we go about notifying you about land owned by avatars that no longer exist that we’d like to see up for auction? We used to be able to post it in the land forum or otherwise let Guy know. How do we do it now?

  115. Hello. Are land pricing changes are coming soon. I didn’t see it addressed in this post. I have a sim and pay 295 US$/Month. Is this price going up?

  116. Dnali Anabuki says:

    Great news but I would have to say that if you raise tier after Q12008, I would have to let my 230K land go as it would no longer be cost effective to stay in SL at that level. I would imagine it would be the same for many folks who feel supportive of SL and have played to stay long term but cannot afford to do biz with unpredictable costs not related to factors a non Linden could perceive.

    It would seem sensible to concentrate on getting more people in SL rather than driving people out by raising tier. Since many of us who carry a large tier do so in the hope of creating content and location that will attract more residents. The SL learning curve is steep and you don’t want to loose folks who have survived it to begin to add in a positive way to SL culture.

  117. Raymond Figtree says:

    The average price is L$6.3? So obviously, the landbot runners must be doing VERY WELL for themselves since you and me and the other average Joes will never see land that cheap even at the base, let alone an average.

  118. Sweet Primrose says:

    If the identity verification proceeds as planned, I think you haven’t even begun to see what a land glut looks like.

  119. Mikhail Obscure says:

    At #78 Fed up with life quit the abusive comments. This is a global system. WE ARE NOT FOREIGNERS!!!!!!!

    And look at your own neo fascist system before criticising ours!!!!!

  120. It would be nice if Linden would also FINISH the new sims the keep throwing around. They promised to set up roaded sims, but most are still not with roads, and therefor even WORSE to use as a rental.

  121. Effulgent Brown says:

    I am still checking on this but i thought having an alternate currency in the united states was illegal.

    and barter is not really legal either

    if im right, they should not be taxing pretend money or gains from bartered items because if they did they would be giving the Linden dollar the same treatment they would give to any real currency

    i dunno, uncle sam may want property taxes from our virtual property

    (\_/)
    (0.0)
    *( __ )

  122. U M says:

    ok jack, now how about dealing with land owners that are leaving junk on to force near by owners to sell out because!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now this is getting to be a real pain the THE ASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You do totally ******* ABOUT THESE OWNERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I FILED ABUSE REPORTS SUPPORT TICKETS FOR ONLY THE SUPPORT PERSON TO SAY BLA BLA BLA!!!!!!!!!! NOW IF THIS IS THE WAY YOU BUYING BACK LAND AT LOW PRICED THEN YOUR FULL OF IT! START FORCING LAND OWNERS THAT ARE PURPOSELY JUNKING UP THEIR LAND TO STOP BRING DOWN PROPERTY VALUES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  123. tuffy pussycat says:

    it’s a good plan keep the prices in check protect us from the Land gobbling monsters.

    SAVE the little guy

  124. Kymberli says:

    Please clarify. If someone purchases a private island at the present rates (before the close of Q1), is THEIR tier subject to change in Q2? Or will you HOLD their prices, as you’ve grandfathered, in the past?

  125. Tamasin Demina says:

    If you’re paying 12L/sqm IM me, sounds great business. You dont need landbots just time and patience to keep searching (and i dont mean with old or new search feature, you’ll find nout that way.

  126. Merlyn says:

    The VAT issue is imposed by the EU, I am a European but I am realistic enough to realise that this is not an LL issue. The US tax authorities have been wise enough to not impose taxes on virtual worlds. It is a great shame the EU did not do the same, they do not appear to realise or care that it will ultimately make Europeans uncompetitive, all they care about is the tax revenue. So VAT on land tier is a cost of living in the EU and has nothing to do with land prices set by LL or private sellers.

  127. Cecilia Delacroix says:

    I add my voice to those begging for a more graduated land tier fee system. Right now I’m at the $390/month level, which I’m not complaining about…..but I would dearly love to be able to buy some very small nearby parcels with ugly rotating ad cubes in the sky……but I’d have to pay an additional $90/month!……I don’t NEED another 31,000 sqm of land!! I just want to be able to pay an additional $10 or $20 a month to beautify my public (non-profit) spaces a bit. PLEASE consider a more graduated tier as part of your business model. Thank you.

  128. Nulflux Negulesco says:

    Yeah you guys have your numbers messed up I run a land scanner and I never see prices that low, 7.5 is usually the lowest.

  129. L$6.3/m
    Have to ask you, Who the heck can buy land at that price ???
    If you set any land below 7.2 one of your Land Bots buys it with in 5 seconds……. We have it on Film.
    And the great part is there is not even anyone with in Radar range when it gets bought.

  130. Anita Schwartzman says:

    wouldnt ocommon sense dictate that as you add more and more mainland and private sims the prices should come down and not go up? really need to rethink the pricing for land tiers…if you raise the fees any higher only a handfull of businesses will be able to cover the cost of the land let alone make it worthwhile to own and operate for a profit

  131. Melanie Milland says:

    Oh, please, everyone, quit the whining and the calls for price controls/oversight. Landbots are a fact of life, and are here to stay.

    The “natural” price level has been around L$10 ever since I can remember, and I think that is a good level. It had peaked at about L$35 during my time, but has also come down again. The constant attempts to push it below L$10 have created more land than can ever be used at present tier rates – many people would buy more, but not if tier is as high as it is now.

    As for the sale price – I believe land should be more expensice than what can be bought with camping money – in some places, it is easy to see what too low a bar to land ownership causes: half “houses in a box” floating at 20 m height, left by people who came in, camped for a few days, bought land, tried building, despaired, and left SL.

    Now these eyesores will remain for a year or more, until, finally, they are recycled and auctioned.

    The only way to get around that is, as a concierge, to get an inworld Linden there to clean it up and set auto return.
    Problem is, if you got 2500 regions crashed, you have no time to return a few prims for a resident. I can understand that, but it doesn’t change the fact that a lower bar to land ownership means a massive increase in junk lots.

    SL would be better served by a cut, or at least a longer term price guarantee, on tier, a better structured tier system with finer graduations, and a way to remove 16sq m block ad farms, and prevent them from being set up again.

    Maybe charge every plot of less then 384 sq m at a higher rate of tier, or limiting the number of such plots a single avie can own to 1 or 2.
    There are many options to tackle that issue, but it is also hard to balance the intersts of the general public against those of the lawful owners of these plots. This is not something that LL wants to do, or to police. So chances are it won’t happen.

    Finally, roads are being built again. I have personally built a few, and I have heard of linden teams also being active again building roads.

    I built the Linden roads in Hodu, Ddalgi, Mu, and San, as well as private roads in Goangeo, Sagwa, Auric and Dent.

    It is possible, and being worked on.

  132. Pingback: The Grid Live » Second Life News for December 8, 2007

  133. Xi Taurog says:

    If you lower the tier rate on mainland sims, or raise the free tier allowance on premium accounts, I think that more people will be willing to take that extra land off your hands. You can’t do a whole lot with that 117 prims that a 512 size lot gives you so a lot of people say heck with it and go rent on private estates where they can get more prims for the same money and not have to pay for a premium account. Or how about changing the tier structure for mainland so residents pay $x per square meter instead of having these huge increases if you go just one square meter over your current level? I’d buy a little more land if it wouldn’t raise my tier so much more per month.

  134. KittyCat Rosebud says:

    I am against banning smaller parcels, chargeing them more, or not allowing owners to make smaller parcels.

    These have all be brought up here but they would hinder Rental Business owners. I find Rental Business owners to be a great help to many types of people and SL as a whole. Without them people would not be able to test their products, get larger places as they expand their products and ultimately make a business with their own paid for land and with paying Land Tiers. These businesses create more products and cause people to buy more Lindens, the products give many types of people reason to own land and to expand land ( where else would they put their stuff).

    What happens is some people get small parcels that are both in a shopping district and listed… which I can tell you at the moment Classifieds is a wreck for everyone I know or talk to so Places is the only stable place to list. The smallest I have seen these is 25 prim for the person renting but they are actually larger to hold structure. The renter pays for listing fee and some times for advertisements ( posters in the land owners clubs and malls that contain a Landmark).

    Things lower in Prim often are abused but some people do pay for a listing on Places that’s just the size of a doormat that is placed infront of their shop instead of inside their shop. These are common in malls.. the listings can’t be in the same spot as levels above them. They may not be expanded because then if there are floors to a mall then there can be a conflict. Most of the Advertisement stuff takeing up space in random places is 3 prim. So if they do ever decide on limits it should be obvious the 3 prim have no point but to hold 3 spinning cubes,… even the Door Mat listings in Condos and Malls could hold more then 3 prims.

  135. nomoresecrets says:

    the difference between us-residents and other sl-users:

    us= coyote

    other=Roadrunners

    holy x-ray… ops x-mas to all

    hahahahahaha

  136. Digital Digital says:

    I would like further clarification, is there any chance private region fees will be going up? I am currently paying 195 a month for mine? I would really like to know if I am going to have to pay more for my region someday lol

  137. Renee Faulds says:

    Land Prices Are Still To Low – good job you finally realized you killed the economy.

  138. Xi Taurog says:

    What will you do about the many 16 and 32 sq.m. former ad lots that have been abandoned back to Gov. Linden, which border lots owned by a number of different people? Will those be auctioned off? I thought I saw a 96 sq.m parcel in the auction listings recently. I imagine that a significant number of square footage is taken up by those, since I see them all over the place. I’d hate to see those go back into circulation as ad lots. If not set up for a general auction, would there be a system in which the adjacent land owners or other existing land owners in the sim could put in a bid for them?

  139. U M says:

    “Landbots are a fact of life” Spoke like a real Bot running !

    Frankly speaking live while you can sooner of later they put a stop those mencing things.

  140. Melanie Milland says:

    Actually, I don’t run landbots. But I do realize that without land bots the bottom would fall out of land prices, and SL would be so full of junk lots, it wouldn’t be funny anymore.
    The economy needs a stable, moedium level (L$10) land price, and they are the current means to achieve it.

  141. Tegg B says:

    Roads beeing built again? Pity vehicles still don’t work.

    All you bot runners are quite happy to strangle the grids performance to near standstill in your escalating numbers bot war, you aren’t real residents you just sit and watch $ go up on limited viewers.

  142. Ciaran Laval says:

    @87 Peggy Paperdoll, I wonder if some of my L$0 transactions are counted when I buy my group owned land myself for L$0 so that I can deed it to another group.

    This is the problem with statistics, they wouldn’t know about things like that or why people are selling land off like that.

  143. tracey says:

    we want to see a drop in TIER FEES, otherwise you will lose out to the new world opening in europe, they are much cheaper than secondlife with the advantage you can have casinos..

    SO I SUGGEST YOU DROP TIER FEES or lose most of europe to the new world!!!

    After all with USA entering recession and the UK on verge of it, I doubt people will want to pay these high fees any more

  144. elise sands says:

    I don’t think those wishing to buy land and flip it for huge profits should be the ones to worry about… …if you make it difficult for the masses they will ALL be in basic accounts or offline… BTW i have again and again IM’d and written over abandoned land next to me with not so much as a form letter …one might wish you guys would actually get in touch with actual users for nostalgic effect… as it is ,you are all insulated much like congress and haven’t a clue.

  145. elise sands says:

    Have any of you considered that when we can buy land for reasonably low prices then we have to fill it with things that can ONLY be bought in SL? commerce depends on affordable land you****’s… thousands upon thousands of people spend tons of Linden furnishing places its not just buy land and sell it… try to see past your nose hairs

  146. U M says:

    LandBot have caused problems regardless of junkedup or not. Frankly speaking people junkup their own land to degress prices so people sellout. Landbots are just a pain in the ass.

  147. John Doe says:

    After a lot of technical issues (and I believe we’ll still have more) and considering a economy collapse… Has anyone tried Entropia Universe (www.entropiauniverse.com) ? It seems a better SL besides the content creation limitation.

  148. Broccoli Curry says:

    Landbots are *not* a fact of life, neither are they particularly allowed per the ToS – if in spirit, and not word.

    Bots – that can work longer, harder and faster – than any human player are outlawed in pretty much every single other online game I have ever come across.

    Linden Lab don’t seem entirely bothered by this inconsistency – but unless they act soon, and come down fast and hard on bot runners, then there won’t be any Second Life left, or anyone left to enjoy it.

    Broccoli

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