[Updated 12.07] Age Verification Update

Thanks to all of you who in the first day of the Age Verification beta have tried to use the service. Unfortunately, we are seeing a high failure rate for Internationally based customers using the age verification system. The failure rate is much higher than we saw in previous testing, and clearly is unacceptable.

We are working with Aristotle/Integrity to identify the causes of these failures. By reviewing your feedback, and running some system diagnostics, we expect to identify some early trends in the next 24 hours. We will report back to you what we’ve learned and how to correct them.

In the meantime, if you’ve tried unsuccessfully to age verify, [Update 2007.12.07: we have replaced the email address with a survey link that appears after an unsuccessful attempt].

Taking this survey will help us make system-wide changes that will benefit the rest of the community. If you would like us to solve your individual problem, please submit a support ticket — there’s a ticket type available to everyone, including guests and basics, called “manual age verification”.

Thanks again for working with us during this beta period, and we appreciate your patience.

About Robin Linden

Be the Change. You must be the change you wish to see in the world. ---Mahatma Gandhi
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137 Responses to [Updated 12.07] Age Verification Update

  1. Msakaji Yoshiro says:

    Excellent, this is a better response than I would have expected; instead of many people opening JIRA tickets we get some more special treatment for this feature!

    Age Verification working is a very important thing – I made three attempts with three different ID numbers and all of them failed, probably due to my very exotic name having accents :S Hope this should be fixed soon though!

  2. Sindy Tsure says:

    TY for the update, Robin!

    I’ve seen that unverifieds can move onto land flagged as verified-only. Can you tell us when it will start getting enforced or if you can’t say yet, how much notice we’ll get before you flip the switch?

  3. what about the rest of us that did get verified do we have to give out that rl info again at a later date because I do not think its fair once we get verified , I thought our rl info to linden LL was good enough now this … its wrong , figures I shouldnt have done that beta now I bet in the coming days my rl mail box and god knows is gonna be filled with junk mail

  4. Jester Spearmann says:

    Just a quick question, I have been gone for over three months where do you go to register for the age verification or will this be noted at a later date ?

  5. Rascal Ratelle says:

    The Following has NOT been addressed:

    What is the garuntee that this third party will
    respect the privacy laws and NOT store he info unless

    Is LL Monitoring this third party? Why should we
    entrust our privet info to a third party we know
    nothing about?

    What about security? how securer is this third party?
    Who do we hold accountable if a security breach occurs
    at the third party?

    What about third party credentials?

    I believe we have the Legal right to view those too.

    What garuntees do we have against Identity theft?

    I refuse to submit any of my privet info to The third
    party until you guys address ALL my concerns and
    questions regarding this issue.
    I do NOT feel safe nor secure releasing my privet info
    to a third party I know nothing about.

    How much do free accounts have to pay? what about
    those of us unable to get a credit card for what ever
    reasons or can’t access pay-pal?

    Also it’s illegal in some countries for an online virtual world to
    require a users social security number for any reason.

    Linden Labs WILL be held accountable for any problems that occurs as a result of ID theft, grid security breaches resulting in ID theft, Security Exploits resulting in ID theft,
    Any problems that occurs with this third party in regards to out Privet info.

    Until LL has publicly addressed these issues I REFUSE to submit any privet info or take part in LL’s Age verification project. I simply do not feel my Privet info is safe nor has LL made any acceptable garuntees that it is truly safe.

    Also it’s illegal in some countries for an online virtual world to
    require a users social security number for any reason.

  6. BrianA says:

    Until the concerns people have raised are clearly addressed, in particular the worries about Aristotle/Integrity will “accidently“ sell our info, I won`t event consider going near this.

  7. Darien Caldwell says:

    Yes, and we need to know, is our Avatar Name being linked to our Real Life Information, by sending both to Aristotle/Integrity? Is that such a hard question to answer? Really…

  8. BrianA says:

    /7, depends on what the answer is. Lindens, you are not filling us with confidence by staying silent on these issues.

  9. Veronica Quackenbush says:

    “Unfortunately, we are seeing a high failure rate for Internationally based customers using the age verification system.”

    I am *totally*, *utterly*, *completely* UNsurprised. I truly wish I could say this without sounding negative, but many of my SL friends who are not US residents could have told LL this a year ago. In fact, they did, or at least tried to. Maybe they just got tired of trying.

    I hope LL will finally realize that the whole idea of age verification is simply wrongheaded to begin with, and that there are much friendlier and more effective alternatives. If I may quote from my own notifier: “Linden Labs’ current and proposed verification policies are known, by abundant evidence, to discriminate against residents on the basis of nationality, professional status, need to protect their privacy, and ability to provide sensitive personal information, in some cases to the extent that complying with Linden Labs verification request would be illegal. At the same time, there is essentially *no* evidence that the verification process espoused by Linden Labs provides effective screening against the supposed issue of concern (viz., that minors might be exposed to harmful content). Hence, the owner of this land declines to make use of Linden Labs inadequate and discriminatory Flagging option, and instead prefers to use this Notification to achieve the same goal in a more friendly, ethical, and equitable fashion.” Incidentally, anyone wishing a copy of my notifier may contact me and receive a free full-perm version (I trust this will not be mistaken as spam, as I am offering this as a public service to my fellow residents).

  10. Allana Dion says:

    >”Unfortunately, we are seeing a high failure rate for Internationally based customers using the age verification system. The failure rate is much higher than we saw in previous testing, and clearly is unacceptable.

    We are working with Aristotle/Integrity to identify the causes of these failures.”

    The reason for the failure is simple. In many countries it is actually illegal to attempt to obtain the very information Integrity/Aristotle claims to already have.

  11. Aislinn says:

    Ditto! I agree with those who are wary of submitting info to a third party who has not been thoroughly checked out. So far, LL has been incompetent in addressing our concerns, fixing our problems or even properly investigating abuse of their own TOS. Why should any of us trust them to carry this out properly?

    As a U.S. citizen, your asking for an SSN violates our federal law, a law which states on the SS card itself “this shall not be used in any way to identify or for identification purposes, by any other than the US government”. The fine for misuse was steep and can include jail time for the offenders.

    Are you guys at LL US government? I think not. Attempting to force this could get you tied up in a seriously ugly class action suit. The US government does not smile on misuse of their goodies.

    As it is, I have already contacted you about my private info being leaked.

    Your response? A stupid form letter. Your efforts? Zilch.

    Its like this, guys…

    One of your “residents” managed to get into my personal info. You have done nothing, which includes dealing with them. You were sent the data and chat logs, the evidence you needed. A month has passed and they continue to walk freely through SL with their numerous alts and continue to spread my data.

    No. No, I don’t think you will be getting any of my info nor my family’s.

    As it is, I am trying to run two businesses in SL and this security breach you at LL have failed to address only further confirms my reasons for distrust. When will this BS muck up my businesses? When will you cost me even more RL grief, money and time?

    You’ve already cost many of us emotional and financial loss, if you think we will allow you to exploit our meager privacies, then you are nuts!

  12. Delu Elytis says:

    “Your World, Your Imagination” you say.
    So if I want NO age verification in my world and yet visit all places, you will listen right?

    Just do what any other site on the web does, “By joining and becoming a member you state you’re over legal age in your country”. It is not worth forcing Residents to provide info that they wish not to or even are illegal to give out, just so they can visit places they been visiting all the time, or even go to their own home or business.
    Besides I could easily find much worse content than what is already existing in SL without even being asked if I’m over 18.

    If you had thought of working more closely with Residents on this mater. A much better idea would likely come to light.

    Just get ride of this age verification, listen to Us and find an alternative that WE WHO ARE GOING TO USE IT AGREE ON, I DEMAND that as a resident of MY WORLD.

  13. Aislinn says:

    Hi Veronica-I for one would appreciate a copy of it for my own lands. Your notifier sounds much more agreeable and is legal. 🙂

  14. waterstar eilde says:

    Robin, the easiest way to get your customers off-side is to continue to address only the issues you want to respond to. You, and other Lindens, continue to answer only those questions that suit, without dealing with the very real concerns so many of us have – in particular, those of us overseas with more stringent privacy legislation that the United States. There is no way Aristotle already has access to much of this information, and will not, unless we give it to them. To say that Linden Labs will not retain the information is to skirt the issue – you have never once, to the best of my knowledge, sworn that Aristotle will not.

    Pussy-footing around the serious questions posed in these blogs and in the forums is insulting to your customer base, bearing in mind that many of us deal with these issues daily in our own working lives and are not stupid. I truly believe you could even acknowledge that this is a data-gathering exercise rather than an age verification one (which it clearly is not) and hear a collective sigh of relief from residents, simply because you were telling the truth.

    If you place any value on customer relations, please, please reconsider the way you approach such a sensitive issue.

  15. Shifte Benedek says:

    Verified. Stop being paranoid. GET VERiFIED! Same whiners every post……

  16. Ron Crimson says:

    It amazes me how quickly people have forgotten that the whole thing is, and will remain, VOLUNTARY.

    Incidentally, the same goes for participating in Second Life to begin with.

    *big sigh*

  17. Shifte Benedek says:

    BTW, instead of whining on this blog, use the correct channels for your problems/issues and they may get looked at. Those channels are there for a REASON.

  18. Digital Digital says:

    I am very happy to see the positive on going effort on having this feature working properly. Thank you very much linden lab keep up the great work! 🙂

  19. Damona Rau says:

    Your right, the beta phase is “voluntary”. After the beta testing it will become MANDATORY! You should really read anything about age verification.

    I’m happy to see, that LL listen, but there is no word because why we have to to break the laws for LL. All options for germans for the verification is simple illegal, if the company is NOT located in germany / EU.

    To be legal we have to break laws, thats a really funny thing.

    And again:
    I understand why LL wants the age verification, but this is the wrong way. Don’t force your residents to break laws for your safeness.

  20. Susan Koltai says:

    >”Unfortunately, we are seeing a high failure rate for Internationally based customers using the age verification system. The failure rate is much higher than we saw in previous testing, and clearly is unacceptable.”

    Was there really anyone naive enough to try? Folks, really! How can you even try to give away your privacy?

    Given the prices of LL for land and the tier fees, land owners often look for a way to balance their expenses from in world revenues. If none of us participates in this … thing… how will the land owners eventually flag their parcels, eh? Or will they simply sell their lands to cut down their expenses? We residents do have the right to decide if we want to go along or not…
    Don’t verify and don’t spend money where you cannot go to…lol…it is that simple.

  21. Aranea Cullen says:

    The disclaimer/TOS for even creating an avatar removes LL from liability already for behaviour ect of the residents in sl. If not only for the reason that it says that you agree everything you use is valid. Which includes being an adult using the adult grid. Even warns you that if you are under age you should be going to the teen server…

    ‘now tell me how this Age verification is not a redundant system that is discriminatory and will cause nothing but heartache for LL?

  22. Lighsadra Echegaray says:

    Will someone please explain JUST how Second Life thinks that it’s 3’rd party company it will be using to bypass the laws of the US and several other countries?

    IT is ILLEGAL for any NON government organization to take such infortmation. And it says ON THE CARD that its not to be used by any non-government agency for that purpose. SSN’s are used for identification purposes all the time….by the government.

    This third party organized is NOT an Governmant company, how do you expect to not get canned? Well…if SL won’t get canned, the 3rd part company offering ILLEGAL services is most certainly going to be.

  23. ganzbaf rasmuson says:

    dear Lindens, dear Robin,

    nice try to get our private datas. maybe to sell them to some insurance-companies or why you want our social-insurance-no.?

    sorry, i live in germany (europe) and it’s not legal to give you or a third-party-seller this no.

    so i request, people, please don’t flag and don’t verify.

    @ 15: very cool. *whine* ;P

  24. Lighsadra Echegaray says:

    Infact, you know I think I’m going to go ahead and see what I can do about this. If there’s someone I can talk to through the US government I’m certainly going to let them know about this if they don’t already.

    This is ILLEGAL…and I’m NOT going to be giving out my information ILLEGALLY to some THIRD PARTY COMPANY that BREAKS THE LAWS just so they can SELL off all the information to some other people.

  25. Cat Gisel says:

    Wow I never thought that the community could respond and make their opinions known by breaking the thing…hmm…more power to the people!

  26. kathrin dassin says:

    I do not understand the needf or verification. As far as i’m concerned the parents are responsible for the actions that their children are taking online, not the rest of the community.

    I personally as many others have said, will not be verifying. I have a paypal account, which you cannot get without being 18, having either a valid cc, or bank account. I agreed to the TOS when i signed up requiring me to be over 18 to even sign up for the main grid in the first place. As someone else pointed out, The TOS on it’s own aboslves SL of any responsiblity for the minor’s that access the adult grid through lying, as they are going to find ways to bypass the age verification anyway.

    Personally i say Give us the information and the guarntees we want instead of playing mary go round with it, and MAYBE you’d get a better response from everyone. And if you need more information on what it is we want to know then look at post #5 by Rascal Ratelle
    thank you

  27. Kris says:


    “If there’s someone I can talk to through the US government I’m certainly going to let them know about this if they don’t already.”


    Oh dear….lmfao…..

    Please do not take offense to that. The problem with your statement is that our gov’t has been collecting this info on us for YEARS. They don’t care one iota about our privacy rights. Fourth Amendment no longer applies here and major corporations are more than happy to help.

    Word of advice for my friends in other countries, DO NOT submit your information.

  28. its beta meaning bugs meaning our information that we put in it is at risk , I would like an honest answer , but doubt I will get one , you taking survey of age , surmanes, regions , race , we as americans have our rights if I find mine have been jeopardized , I hope the local aurthorories can help …

  29. RaptonX Zorger says:

    I think trusting a company that is known for selling information is a mistake. Not that i worry really, our sims are not full of explicit material.

    And no, someone doing an explicit act in a sim that is not made for it does not count and are asked to stop.

    Still, I wish LL would do the verification thing themselves, as I am not going to give my SSN to anyone.

  30. Neon Dingson says:

    Tried to verify and failed. I am in the UK, tried to use both methods available to UK residents and both failed. Has anyone in the UK successfully verified?

  31. Olaf Bosch says:

    omg – so many negative words – I am sure lot’s of your so called private information is scattered around the world already, especially whe you fly or otherwise cross country borders.

    Sure it is not what I had to provide as I created my account a year ago. Having a dutch passport that needs to be renewed every 5 years, changes the numbers of it too. So I rather shrug on this – when I need to enter verification only area’s I can verify. I rather verify for sl, then getting spammed with real life personalised marketing stuff from companies I dont know.

    But for now I rather waiit to see what happens with the beta on it before verifying. BTW, Linden is not asking for full SSN, it asks for the last 4 digits only.


  32. Lighsadra Echegaray says:

    Kris, I’ll still do what I can. 😉 Fact of the matter is, I’m over 18…and I shouldn’t have to provide MY PERSONAL information to be able to access all parts of SL

    AND I AM NOT GOING TO GIVE LL THAT KIND OF INFORMATION! NO one ELSE should either! Do not give your personal information to them.

    It’s absolutely rediculous. Why can’t they just use paypal? YOu need to be an adult to have paypal…and it’s more trustworthy then some UNKNOWN 3rd company.

  33. Ann Otoole says:

    re: not collecting any data…
    are you saying the data in the web form is not being retained in web logs?

  34. Ivantwin Rogers says:

    With this new system of verification so bad, aristole integry will have in their hands a linden and labs now aritole make determination who plays second life or not, in very bad idea put customers in the hands of a third company , when age verication finish the beta time and enter to the real grid the the real boss are ARISTOLE INTEGRY, not linden labs

    LINDEN LABS if you want make age verification use other forms!! DONT PUT your lovely second life in a STRANGE HANDS!!!

  35. janeforyou Barbara says:

    What if I come across very mature content on land that does not ban unverified adults?
    As has occurred in other cases, we expect our Residents to report such activity. As has always been the case, Residents are morally, socially and legally responsible for their actions and content in Second Life. Clearly, any illegal activity or content will be investigated and appropriate action will be taken. We expect the community to continue to be effective and responsible in ensuring that Residents are sufficiently protected from potentially inappropriate and/or offensive content that is adult in nature.

    = your adult content marure SIM wil be closed by LL

  36. Kornation Bommerang says:

    Gday bloggers and freinds i havent seen in a long time.

    Notice the ‘.. long time part’ – because currently i am BANNED for being underage, someone or something triggered an alarm at LL and they closed my account down.

    And rightly so, Its a safety trip – dont get pissed off when the fuse blows as its trying to save you (in the case of LL – save minors from us), but when i provided what would be enough information to open a bank account in the UK to prove my age to SL they couldnt verify it, because its not American/Canadian. Again this is rightly so – if you dont understand the documents you cant pass judgement if its real or fake.

    I WANT Age Verification to be installed across the grid, and it to be done the right way, then people like me who got a false negative can submit our data to someone in a safe and secure way, and reopen our accounts.

    Ive even been in the odd position where ive even lost a job opertunity from not being able to enter SL, and currently been given another one that would require me to be able to enter SL.

    Until this is done, im left to seeing what my brother is doing in sl over his shoulder – Windlight looks brilliant, Voice sounds a bit meh but useful and sculpties look like a godsend, i just cant wait to rejoin and get back to content creating.

    Kevin L. aka
    Kornation Bommerang
    Aged 24 in RL
    Would be 4 (i think) in Sl in January

  37. Icarius Catteneo says:

    Woohoo for identity theft and my personal information being sold to the lowest bidder! I didn’t want good credit or anonymity online, anyway!

  38. notagambler says:

    Especially Residents, that earns Money in SL and didnt pay Vat for it now, should not give out more private Informations.

  39. LauraXXXXXX6of7 Demina says:

    Aww, come on you guys ‘n dolls give ‘m a break! They aint so stupid at LL to really bust the game up by making everybody verify their age for real. And by doing so force everyone in Europe to break Internet information laws and stuff.
    They know they have no right to subvert law abiding citizens that way. The way it sounds around here is as though your making them out to be a bunch of Juristic illiterates or something like that.
    I dont know whats gotten in to you all now.
    As if they would let all that information get stored up by another company all together nothing to do with SL and just watch them do as they like with the data and go spreading it around with other nosey parkers as if it was freebie stuff for crooks to make a fortune out of.
    I mean. to hear you all whining about it you all tend to give the impresion that LL would be a bunch of amateurs or something.
    No they wouldnt do nuthin like that. No…. certainly not..
    And as for the people who have attempted to verify their age and have not succeded. My heart goes out to them, I think you all deserve age verification on the spot for trying so hard to be honest upstanding residents, (Are you listening LL?)

    As for age verification in general LL. I suggest you begin to send letters with postage stamps on them to your faithfull fun loving clients so they can confirm whatever you think they have to, one way or the other. Thankyou.

    Ps. I will probably get banned for life with this comment but I feel it has to be said this way.

  40. RJ Lytton says:

    Message from one X sim, privacy dont allow me call it by truly name
    “SL is moving to age verification that requires personal information. [X sim] has adopted an alternate system that simply requires your honor and your birthdate, no RL info other than that. Do it once here and you are free of it ever again at any agelock secure sim.

    While doing it here, look around our new spectacular market and then get ready to be a … true person in the … sim and the awesome …. …”

    WHAT I will need everytime I go to adult sim spread out my age not to LL’s only but to alternatives systems?

    I would like to curse but I know that won’t help

  41. Kornation Bommerang says:

    sorry one sec.

    ‘Fact of the matter is, I’m over 18…and I shouldn’t have to provide MY PERSONAL information to be able to access all parts of SL’

    So when you was 19 trying to buy a rated M game at a store, you dont show your ID? SL cant see if your 12 or 100, they cannot physically see you so they have to asume that everyone is one or the other, and its safer for them to see you as 17 and 11 months old, just a flash of the ID and be off.

    LL is not just saving their own backside, according to the TOS ALL the stuff in SL is our IP, therefor the customer of LL, the content creater – are as liable in any case as LL – and someones rated M with pictures of prim dongs and pixelated nipples land is liable.

    We dont want Strokers, etc etc etc all asking for ID before anyone enters theirs islands, so this blanket case over ALL of sl is useful for the content creater and ultimatley Joe Bloggs.

    The main thing that i think all of us are scared about is our info getting in the wild – LL HAS been leeked before – we know that – so why are we not trusting them in deciding to use a company with a case record of keeping our data safe?

    They even went beta to test out the system to iron out the creases before going live – great! They admit it has a problem, they’ll fix it and come back with safer, more secure and better results, that is what Beta is for.

    Truthfully id prefer to give my info to a secure company than LL and its worldwide net of work from home Lindens.

  42. Loraaga says:

    I still wonder, how Integrity (or any other company) will manage to certify the data of European users as in the most EU-countries there is a VERY STRICT data protection law.

    for example: I live in Austria and if Integrity or any other non Austrian company wants to gain acces to a specific person’s data … they first have to get a permission of the AUSTRIAN DATA PROTECTION COMISSION which is part of the Austrian Gouvernment.
    Integrity will have to contact the data protection commission and ask for permission and they will have to give a reason why they want to acces the data of Austrians… And I think *age verification for SL* surley will NOT be enough to get a permission.

    I can’t tell whether or not it works for Austrians at the moment, and most probably I will never know for I will NOT give highly sensible information as

    my full name
    my date of birth
    my passport or driver licence number
    my full adress

    to anybody or any company on the internet.

    But I really want to know why to they need all those infos at all? full name and full adress for an age verification? why date of birth and passport/driver licence nr are not enough? not even our passports or DL show any home adress info…

  43. merciamcmahon says:

    This does work, I was one of the first to verify in the Estate Owners’ trial (Concierge residents were included shortly afterwards). I chose a mainland parcel with nothing on it, set it and nothing happened to my verified avatar. I then got an alt to enter and got red NO ENTRY lines and a small dialogue very similar to the No Payment Info one. Maybe you need to be verified to set the parcel to verified only.

  44. atlwolf says:

    As a US citizen, verification was fairly easy and painless. My concern is in the near furture I will have to cut off access to my land for everyone who hasn’t/can’t jump this hurdle.

    Am I liable for requiring that some people break their countries law but providing confidential information, to see cartoon porn on a grid where everyone is supposed to be 18 in the first place? Will the ARs start being filed against me if I let people view this cartoon porn without being verified?

  45. Lighsadra Echegaray says:

    “I mean. to hear you all whining about it you all tend to give the impresion that LL would be a bunch of amateurs or something.”

    Lmfao, are you sure? My toaster is more reliable, AND it makes toast. Nom nom.

  46. Andrea Faulkner says:

    It’s very simple. You’re keeping children out of an adult game. This adult game doesn’t require “Parental Guidance” because you’re supposed to be an ADULT to be in the grid. Therefore.. DO AWAY with PG and Mature rankings of sims.. make them ALL mature, lock out ANYONE who can’t prove that they’re adults.. lets stop requiring PG only content in profiles, and lets be ADULTS in SL.
    If you’re worried about other countries legality of supplying identifying information.. don’t. THat’s LL’s problem. They can either aquire info to allow people in, or they can simply block access from these countries. The REAL legal issue with this AMERICAN company is allowing children to be exposed to pornography and pedophiles who like sexual ageplay. THAT is enforcable by the US Government.

  47. Una Cuddihy says:

    Why, why, why do you persist in burying your heads in the sand, dear LL.
    By now even the most insular of you must have realised that you are inciting many non-US citizens to break the law of their lands.
    Ditch these plans now and regain the goodwill of your estranged customers.
    I for one will join the boycott on Dec 11 and hope many others will join me.

  48. Sion DArling says:

    As I have said twice in IMs to different Lindens, unless the data requested from residents has changed, the information that you have requested for Age Verification is either classifeied by UK and probably other EU countries as well, as wither not suitable for ID verification or we are specifically prohibted from giving it to LL or Aristotle. And from the sounds of it, it is illegal for US citizens to do it too. Find another way!

  49. mimi says:

    Readin from the blog: http://www.gridgrind.com/?p=228
    I understand that flagging is NOT required.

    Did Allana understand this right? (since every one inteprets the lindens words in a different way)

    Allana Dion: “My question is not about the beta test period of the identity verification plan, but refers to after the beta test is over and it is used across the grid ………

    There IS adult activity occuring in various private areas of this club. However I have chosen NOT to flag the land “adult” because I use my own warning system. I have chosen NOT to block people who choose not to verify through Integrity and I only block people who refuse to acknowledge the warning system I have in place.

    For the record, there is no illegal activity or content on the land, only occasionally legal consensual adult activity.

    However, if someone decided to report me for not blocking unverified visitors, what would be the consequence?

    Is blocking unverified visitors mandatory or is it optional? If it is mandatory, what is the planned form of punishment? If it is not mandatory, does LL plan at any time to make that clear to the public?

    (At the moment most people are under the impression that it is required, while I personally interpret LL’s blog as saying it is only recommended)”

    This was Michael’s answer:

    Michael Linden: “None, nothing … it’s not required.”

    Zara Linden: “right, IDV is strictly voluntary”

    Michael Linden: “Second sentence: “voluntarily”

    Michael Linden: “Third heading: “Enforcing age verification on estates and parcels is voluntary.”


    I asked a few lindens and they all referred me to the help files, but the help files give only short answers, on most of our issues we still don’t have answers. We would like to have CLEAR answers from an OFICCIAL channel so we cant get in trouble later for having intepretated things in a different way.

    Will there REALLY be no consequenses if we don’t flag sexually orientated land? So no abuse reports which will force us to flag later, no blocking or deleting of acounts, no trouble at all from the lindens?

    Will flagging REMAIN voluntarily, or will it become involuntarily in the future?

    @5 has very good questions, I think they really need an explanation too.

  50. merciamcmahon says:

    No, a non-verified can set it, although it does not work for them. In Release Candidate Viewer there is a large dialogue saying “You need to be age-verified in order to enter this parcel. Would you like to visit the Second Life website to verify your age?” In the Official and Windlight Viewers, a small dialogue says “NotAgeVerified is missing from alerts.xml” but you still cannot enter.

  51. Una Cuddihy says:

    Re: #53
    I received this from PonygirlSarah Clapper (of Sarah’s Island)

    “It has been determined that the following actions will take place here, and hopefully across SL on Dec 11 to protest the verification process:

    1) no one buys or sells L$ (rent is still due, if your renting a place and tier fees are due)


    3) NO SIM OWNERS FLAG their land unless forced by LL.

    PASS THIS ON TO ALL GROUPS! the more involved, the harder the hit to LL.”

    I have no further details.

  52. Rascal Ratelle says:

    here is what LL did NOT say: Integrity extends Aristotle’s comprehensive COSMOS™ database of government-issued ID’s, among other data sources, to bring instantaneous age and identity verification to life.
    what does this mean? Integrity is SAVING to there data base ALL our submitted privet info after being viewed by SL’s Lindens.

  53. Giuliani Rossini says:

    With any luck (and publicity) at all, this little scheme could put Aristotle and companies like them out of business, which is exactly where they belong. Spread the word.

  54. perhaps if they havent asked me and i did not give consent for a backroundcheck… that violates my rights…wheather i can spell or not dam it!

  55. Jamie David says:

    Latest findings I have been told is that the system will not work above 100 meters which means that skyboxes are outside the scope.

    It was also stated yesterday by Michael Linden that this is not required or mandatory!!!! Other systems can be used. See gridgrind.com

    The data is stored by aristotle for 2 years in their “valt”.

    If LL goes out of business or is sold they no longer accept responsibility for looking after your personal data. (See TOS)

    So many questions. Never any answers other than technical issues that are blocking their system and saving some people from handing over their ID, that is if Aristotle is not already keeping every entry even if it failed.

    Robin Linden and LindenLab let down the residents in a big way. Promising answers and discussion 2 months ago and NOTHING. Forcing this down our throats even with all of our issues.

    I will not give my personal ID and numbers to any system that has no oversight, not one assurance of protection. That is madness. Might as well give them my wallet and passport.

    Google Identity Theft or Personal Data Loss. Look at the news how the British government has had to admit how it lost loads of data. You reallllly do not want to hand over to someone who creates Voter Profiles your identity so that they can develop a better profile of you. What happens if Aristotle gets hacked? How will they protect us.

    LindenLab has little to no idea of where data is stored. How it can be accessed. The answers change every time. “We don’t keep any data.” “They keep data in valt for 2 years.” “We have no idea where it is stored.” Residents want straight answers to our questions not the questions that LindenLab thinks we want.

    We want kids to be safe but not at the cost of our identities and possibly our finances. I for one will not verify with real information. I will not access any store or place that requires me to do so.

    I use agelock.net and that covers all my needs, free and safely. It can work as high as you build. It will not force your customers to choose between giving of personal information that is dangerous and possibly illegal and buying your product or visiting your club or space.

  56. LaeMiQian says:

    @Andrea Faulkner:
    PG vs M parcels/sims are so users who WANT to avoid M-rated material know where to avoid. It has nothing to do with the adult verification as no-one can be locked out of an M sim, they can only CHOOSE to avoid it.. Which is how it should be.

    I am not sure Atistotle will get in trouble for abusing US laws (SS) when they are – according to themselves – a major supplier of mined data to US politicians on all sides.

  57. Loraaga says:

    oh and I forgot to say: if after the beta period there will be charged a fee for IDV that will be the next hurdle for many people.

    I tried to upgrade my account to premium, but it’s impossible because:

    I haven’t got a credit card so I made a paypal account, but I can’t use the paypal account because LL only accepts verfied paypal accs and if you are an Austrian resident the only way to verfy yor paypal account is to enter your creditcard number in your paypal account *rofl*
    ok, thats not LL’s fault but PayPal’s – but SL is the only game I know that does’nt provide other payment ways. I’ve had premiums in various other online games, all without needing a creditcard or paypal.

    @51 oh yes, let only AMERICANS play and block out the rest of the world as the world ends at the US borders :o)

  58. wow @62 im not starting anything but your wallet and card number and passport and…. need i go on… are fairly available to those who try. but i would be parinoid too

  59. Vaalith Jinn says:

    Epic Fail.
    LL you’ve just turned away a huge amount of users,
    I can gurantee that once a suitable competing mmog rises
    you’ll see those users run.

  60. Giuliani Rossini says:

    @67, well said. Probably run by an outfit that doesn’t have stupid/lazy attorneys. Good attorneys are out there.

  61. Akiko Koba says:

    Re #51

    [If you’re worried about other countries legality of supplying identifying information.. don’t. THat’s LL’s problem. They can either aquire info to allow people in, or they can simply block access from these countries. The REAL legal issue with this AMERICAN company is allowing children to be exposed to pornography and pedophiles who like sexual ageplay. THAT is enforcable by the US Government.]

    I think you’ll find that LL could no longer survive the loss of the revenue brought in by non- US customers Andrea. Businesses would suffer from the loss of world wide customers. Sure, if you think SL would be a better experience for you as an all-American community, go ahead and start a petition fo an ‘All-American SL’. After that, maybe you can start one for an ‘All-White SL’, then an ‘All-Able-bodied SL’, an ‘All-Republican SL’ and maybe an ‘All-Christian SL’? I think you’ll find the the majority of Americans enjoy the opportunity to spend time with non-Americans. For my part, my SL partner is American. Kick out all of us non-Americans and some of the Americans who are here mostly to spend time with non-US partners or friends will leave too.

    I think you will find that – unless this current age verification hogwash has alerted them to the presence of under 18s – paedophiles would not be chosing SL to come to in search of youngsters to groom and corrupt. Surely, a paedophile would be trying to get into the Teen Grid of SL where he KNOWS there will be minors?

    More importantly, underage residents should be kept out of SL to protect adults! All it takes is one child to come into SL pretending to be over 18 and for that child to enter into a relationship with an adult and for that relationship to be discovered and exposed. The adult may not even be remotely aware that the person they are having a relationship with is under age. Through no fault of their own, they can find themselves labelled a child sex offender with a criminal record. In one fell swoop, a person’s life can be ruined when the last thing on their mind was to abuse a child.

    For this rason alone, this whole verification process is redundant. It is far to easy for children to steal a parent’s ID and become verified (we’ve already heard of one person in this thread who has supplied and had accepted a false ID under this system). It is impossible for many genuine adults outside of the US to become verified. The third party firm being employed to undertake this task is not trusted by a majority of residents either.

    To be perfectly honest, I do not think there is a way to make SL 100% secure and to keep out every child, but making every person supply credit information would be a start. Yes – children can use credit cards, but as things stand, if a child is caught in SL they are ejected and they can create a new Yahoo email addess and be back in SL in under 30 minutes. If the account number was linked to a ban list, that person would find it more difficult to return to SL.

    It IS important to keep youngsters out of SL, but this current system being planned is not going to do it. In fact, it will hurt adults more than it will hurt youngsters.

    My bet is that the majority of those who have registered so far are under 18s

  62. MrLunk Voom says:

    In Holland (=Netherlands)our privacy is protected by LAW !!!
    if any company keeps record of my personal info without my concent they are in violation of DUTCH law !!!

    I do want to ID as an Adult (do see why this is neccesary though, I’m registered with a VISA card so that should say enough….


    MrLunk Voom

  63. Selina Greene says:

    And from the Lindens, SILENCE. I am disgusted.
    When is someone going to get some balls and answer these important and legitimate complaints?

  64. Eilidh McDonnell says:

    I will never verify. I hate what you are doing to our world, LL.

    Your silence about genuine fears that your customers have shows that you have no interest in anything except covering your own arses. You seem to simply not care what a known data-miner will do with this information.

    In fact, given your continuous duplicity, it wouldn’t surprise me if you had come to an arrangement with Aristotle: they get all this wonderful data, you get AV on the cheap.

    It’s time you ‘fessed up. It won’t be long until you aren’t the only game in town and you had better start treating better the people who pour money every single day into your company, paying your wages, filling your bellies.

    Bait and switch is the mark of a con artist. Where can I find your Bunco Booth in world?

  65. Linda Joffe says:

    Wow, if I understand just half the rants here on this issue then the next time a local merchant asks to see some proof of ID when I use my credit card and I show my drivers license it’s “ILLEGAL USE OF PRIVATE INFORMATION” !!! Dang glad I’ve been set straight on that one !!

  66. Sling Trebuchet says:

    Why is the verification screen demanding an email address?
    Many people have a number of email addresses and/or change address over time. If Aristotle/Integrity think they have *the* correct email address for an identity, there’s a high chance they have it wrong.

    Why is the verification screen offering ID methods that it can not possible verify? In my country, as in many others, the information being asked for is simply not available as ‘public records’ and is not available to commercial entities either, not even to domestic entities!

    It is clear from comments here and in the Forums that Integrity’s data on addresses is years out of date.

    What I see on that is screen is a data harvesting exercise.
    For countries with decent Data Protection regimes, Integrity can not check the input against anything it has access to.
    The only logical interpretation is that Integrity will have a richer database after people supply ID information that Integrity could not possibly obtain in any other way. BUT – they say that they will only store but never use? Come along, do try to keep up with the class!!

    The demand for an email address is particularly suspect.

    We don’t all live in Kansas, Toto.
    We don’t all live in a society where peoples’ personal data is unprotected and traded freely.

  67. Akiko Koba says:

    Oh and Andrea, when SL is a US ony onlinhe world and LL announcesd that they have gone bankrupt and SL will close at the end of the month, please feel free to blame all of us non-Amricans for deserting your beloved SL.

    #67 and #68. There IS a suitable alternative to SL. It’s called Hipihi and it’s an exact copy of SL. I have not tried it although I know of several people who ran businesses in SL who have made the switch. They say it’s still a pretty barren place at the moment, but the potential is there. Recently (in the last few days) another friend has sold her businesses in SL, put her land up for sale and switched to Hipihi – that after being here in SL since early 2005 – and joined with some other ex SL landowners to start businesses in that world. Her reports are similar to the others I hear – not a lot gong on there yet, but it’s growing.

    For my part, I want to hold out with SL for a while longer. First off, SL is American owned and I like Democracy. Hipihi is Chinese and I have no idea how much I would be lining the pockets of the Chinese government. Secondly, I have built up my business here and my friends are here too. However, if LL decide to make me choose between SL and the law of my country, I’ll be moving to Hipihi.

  68. Linda Joffe says:

    Hey, just one question while I’m at it…… I’m verified and would like only verified members to be able to IM me or see my profile. Is that a possibility? I’d love that feature =)

  69. Sling Trebuchet says:

    Sorry for the second post. #74 came in while I was typing – and there’s not edit facility here.

    #74 the issue is not the showing of ID to a merchant for visual inspection.
    The issue is handing over sensitive ID data to be stored in a database.
    The issue is compounded by the nature of the entity controlling the database and the data protection environment in which it operates.

  70. PonygirlSarah Clapper says:

    The issues I am looking at, as a land owner (I own 2 sims, and both of which have what could be cosnidered by some to be mature content), is that the information being asked for can be moved around, flasafided, or just plain made up.

    I don’t think a lot of us have begun to see the depeer picture here. It would seem that LL is looking to have our in world personalities tied to a real person, for the express purpose of taxing any SL based revenue. Why else would they need:
    RL Name
    RL Mailing address (Street, city, country, state, and ZIP)
    and the identity piece

    I beg all of you to wake up, and fight this while there is still time. I have asked for the boycott of buying and selling of L$ on Dec. 11. Granted some buisnesses need to pay rent or sim owners need to pay tier, but beyond the nessessary transactions, I would advise everyone else not to use the Lindex services that day.

    Almost at the same time, LL announced a down day for the main and beta grids. I am not sayignt he 2 are inter-related, but it sure is an ironic coincidence.

    There has already been seen an overwhelming responce from the members who have been informed of this, and the reasons behind the move to fight this OBVIOUS invasion of privacy. We do not work for LL, we are not applying for jobs with LL, nor are we in any way required to give out our personal data to them or anyone else.

    Our oversees customers and visitors, likewise, would be forced ot break the laws of their countries. Do we really want them breaking their laws, just to play what ammounts to a game?

    It will be interesting to see the reaction of LL to the boycott.

    One other thought. We sim owners, bought our servers. We only used LL as a third party, to connect them to the SL grid. I wonder if we will be getitng those servers if we close our accounts? if not, there is another course to take.

    If you wish to see more on the boycott, check out the SL Herald article:

  71. Jingyi Davies says:

    Yet an other storm in SL. I wonder how many players will leave SL because of this.
    As new player, I dont realise the magnitude of the result of age verification.
    It takes a great deal of effort to do some reading on this matter. Mostly I read are fears and protests.
    I think the best issue to solve trouble is not to do a thing. By solving one trouble several new ones are appearing. I wonder how many people will leave SL now.

  72. Linda Joffe says:

    @78 Ok , but I still don’t get the ‘sensitive ID data’ issue you describe. For me in California they wanted a DL number or last 4 digits of SS number and address. Those are things that unfortunately every credit card , auto insurance , bank, business aka public record already have….. so what’s the big deal lol ? Privacy is a fallacy in this tech age ; admit it )

  73. HealthStar says:

    @ 74 – It is if said merchant makes a copy your DL or credit card when you show it to them and then sells that info to someone else along with a list of what you bought that day without your explicit consent to do so.

    People are not giving that consent with this, we have been told that “no information is being kept whatsoever” we have however also been told this measure was to help tie an ava and person to a real location. If no info is being kept what is it exactly that is tying an ava to a real location. Tying implied there is an attachment kept somewhere on file.

    If the statement someone said above is true that the information is being “vaulted” by aristotle for 2 years then the people that have already verified and those that do, have been duped into it under false pretences and promises by LL that no data was being kept whatsover. It would be nice to know, so these people could take whatever measure has been put in place to allow them to request the data being stored about them be wiped from Aristotles database as they were told it was not being being stored or kept.

  74. Joanne Sabre says:

    Oh please people. Willl you just grow up? It’s voluntary, if you don’t wish to do it,don’t. Simple as that. As far as not being able to enter certain areas, well every action has a consequence. I am tired of the incessant whining on this. If you’re not 18, you shouldn’t be here anyway. I’m probably going to take flak for this, but it sounds to me like we’ve all grown spoiled.

  75. starhunter Gall says:

    Well, to connect a Avatar to Realife person, a file will be created, meaning someone is keeping this personal info, you alllready have my credit card info. Linden labs you know very well this is a major lawsuit waiting to happen, cause once somene verifies and gets the first lil hint of spam or junk mail related to this, it will be on yours and this third party companies hands. THINK THINGS THROUGH before something bad happens

  76. Fellatione Aabye says:

    Arghhh Yerks …. getting sick of that Sicko Arrogance of the US ….

    Broke all the european laws on private information for that stupid (and maybe money-making thing for The Lindens only) Age verification ….
    For the European Citizens dear Linden … pls read

    “Directive 95/46/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 24 October 1995 on the protection of individuals with regard to the processing of personal data and on the free movement of such data”

    I broke all those … cose I wished to be fair and square with Linden Labs …. BUT Are they to us ????? The 1,000,000 USD question ….

    The only response I got was … Sorry can t verify …. etc

  77. notagambler says:

    i just found the following in another Blog:

    “””””Keep in mind what is going on is not Age Verify. That is not the correct words. The correct words are Porn Access. They swagger about with pride that they are storing no information, but they are storing Y or N. That means Y, you did explicitly request Porn Access in a well known harbor of kiddie porn, or N you did not.

    You can judge for yourself if you at any time in the future will ever face a situation where you don’t want it known in response to a background check or subpoena that you requested Porn Access. If you are 100% sure that at no time in the future will you ever face a situation where you would not want that known, then go ahead and RPA, Request Porn Access. There is absolutely no cost to you in not making such a Request that will be kept in their records.

    Why risk it? There is small risk and zero return. No value at all in taking that risk.””””””

  78. janeforyou Barbara says:

    “Unfortunately, we are seeing a high failure rate for Internationally based customers using the age verification system. The failure rate is much higher than we saw in previous testing, and clearly is unacceptable.” 70% of SL member are International and outside USA. If 70% got problems cuz of there contrys ID system or there are a LAW against it then it may be that 30-40% = bout 4 Mill Members may not ever be able to enter a Mature SIM with adult content in SL.

  79. Selkit Diller says:

    Consider this an informal request to follow up the notarized, bound-by-law legal request to cease and desist requesting the full Social Insurance Number from Canadian citizens. What you require of us is immoral at best, questionable, and highly suspect.

    By Canadian law, you may not deny me access to services and may not deny me the right to do business if I refuse to give you my Social Insurance Number. The Social Insurance Number is *not* an identifier, and Social Insurance Numbers are given to children. They are not an identifier, and are invalid as identification beyond checking into an individual’s medical records, and tax history. This behavior is prohibited by Canadian federal law for nongovernmental purposes. Have you done your homework?

    Robin? Please resign. This is a failure of colossal magnitude, we did not want this, and we do not need an overmeasured, undereffective system such as this.

  80. Well I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: I will not be flagging any of my parcels; I will not be verifying.

    I left IMVU when the owners of that system ruined the developer economy, I will leave SL when the time comes to choose between my privacy and what is, in the end, only a game. I notice with interest that the Chinese are developing a system very similar to Second Life and I am sure that others will follow.

    THis type of content creation/society network is, if not a major step forward, then an interesting step forward in social networking and business. I see it as a short time indeed when second life items will be linked to real life items for sale, and suddenyl the platform will become a true business platform.

    Once real (i.e. a website based store) investment as such is made in SL then there will come a time when the type of behaviour we see from Linden now will bring about nothing but expensive law suits for damages and losses (for the which I am surprised not to have seen already).

    My point here is that there is potentially a bright future for the Second Life platform, but if the owners don’t sort out the seemingly numerous problems with the service and their appalling attitude of not listneing to the residents then simply put, those residents, businesses and opportunities will go elsewhere.

    In reference to a previous post of which I forget the number: I’d be interested to know just how many users are non US residents, and what percentage of Linden’s income is non US derived. I for one will not be renewing my premium account since the introduction of VAT, and I won’t be buying a sim either: if things go further to alienate the non US market, I wonder if SL will survive at all?

  81. Mel says:

    One note that I think has been overlooked in these blogs where people are asking why have age verification when it is already an adult grid.
    I am 98% positive I read in an earlier blog months ago by Jeska or Robin that eventually, the teen and adult grids are meant to be reunited at some time.
    If my recollection is accurate, this all makes more sense.

  82. Ivantwin Rogers says:

    that is for #76 HIPPIPI its a super krap jerky, bad ztupid game and dont have a comparation with Second Life.,, the Hipipi have horrible graphics and is the system is very hidiot

  83. Sabine Geiger says:

    Age verification wil destroy Second Life as all adult clubs will get broke as a normal thinking person dont gives his/her personal info not to an unreliable compagny as linden labs so the verifide people will be underage kids who got a hold of their parents ID or adults not mature enough to be in a adult club anyways or the worst kind Linden employees snitching on people who wont flagg, SL will change in a virtual disneyland good for kids so age verification isnt nessecari anymore so LINDENS please get back to your sences and stop this before youdistroy SL completely

  84. Sling Trebuchet says:

    I feel so dirty. A third posting!
    But my excuse is that this addresses a general point that is central to the whole thing.

    “@78 Ok , but I still don’t get the ’sensitive ID data’ issue you describe. For me in California they wanted a DL number or last 4 digits of SS number and address. Those are things that unfortunately every credit card , auto insurance , bank, business aka public record already have….. so what’s the big deal lol ? Privacy is a fallacy in this tech age ; admit it )”

    It’s not a ‘big deal’ in California.
    It’s not a ‘big deal’ in Kansas, Toto.
    In the USA, the lives and private data of citizens are commodities to be bought and sold by business in the land where the mighty buck is king.
    US citizens and businesses don’t seem to be able to imagine an environment in which data privacy exists.
    Here is the news: Having your personal data on public record might be normal in the USA, but not elsewhere.

    “Privacy is a fallacy in this tech age ; admit it )” ??
    Privacy is a fallacy in the USA. You are not free. Only your businesses and your government have freedom. The rest of you are consumer entities to be traded at will. The USA sounds kinda Gor-ish. 🙂

  85. otherworldsoutside says:

    there are other worlds outside http://www.entropiauniverse.com/

    and read the following too:

    “Anshe Pays US$60,000 to Open Virtual Pawn Shop in Entropia

    Land baron Anshe Chung expanded her empire today by winning one of five banking licenses in the wild and wooly virtual world of Entropia Universe, according to a late-breaking report from RCE Universe. Anshe paid PED600,000 (US$60,000, or more than L$16 million) for the right to make collateralized loans in Entropia, meaning any banks that open there will be little more than virtual pawn shops — for the moment. In announcing the auction, Entropia notes that “Should an interested party hold a real banking license in the real world, many more services and features can be added.” Will Deutsche Bank soon be getting inquiries from Anshe? And what about the cross-world arbitrage opportunities? A whole new world of virtual capitalism awaits!

  86. Sunni Jewell says:

    A lot of whining going on in here. And I bet most of you who “refuse” to verify also never, ever give that information out in RL, right? Never write a check where you have to show ID, never swipe your credit/debit card at any retailer or gas pump, never order anything online, never show that information to an employer, etc. Because if you do any of these things, your risk of identity theft is much higher than verifying your identity and age through this process. If you don’t want to verify, don’t verify. It’s as simple as that. From some of the grammatical errors I’m seeing in the most whiny of posts, I think some of you aren’t 18 yet, which is why you’re whining. Just sayin’

  87. Ivantwin Rogers says:

    to #95, we can make a prostest because aristole have a bad reputation and they put for sale some data, the bank dont sale my sensitve data, my gas pump dont sale my sensitive data, my employer dont sale my sensitive data, but aristole integry yes! and this imposible this system can verified all people in all word,

  88. I’ve received several reports that some are using false details or not filling in all the required fields and yet their verification passed. Is the 3rd party doing their job properly or is their some safeguards in place to ensure all verifications are legitimate?

  89. Mie Kish says:

    This whole age verify thing is a joke. I DID attempt to age verify on beta because honestly, there isn’t anything anyone could get off my identity (i.e. my credit SUCKS!!!) So w/e…

    At any rate, they asked for your DL number OR last four of your social. Ok.. so plugged in my info and it failed… three times. I -finally- got this to work using my FORMER married name. Well ok so their info isn’t exactly ‘up to date’ but from what I gather, they are using the information thats already floating around out there somewhere (public record) to verify people.

    Did they not think there would be large problems with international users? DUH!!

    So… Personal opinion here… Instead of SL trying to ‘protect the children’, they need to make a simple, LEGAL statement that basically says ‘PARENTS… raise your own darn kids’. It is a parent (guardians) job to ensure a kid doesn’t access adult things like the main grid on SL, NOT everyone elses job to protect them for the parents.

    I do feel peoples concerns are valid but you know as well as I do that they won’t be addressed, at least not in a timely manner. So go address them yourselves. Do a little investigation. Find out the number to this company and call em up. Should you have to do this? Nope, but it appears that LL is going to bull head through this little ‘situation’ and go with it anyway. Goodie for them. We as users (if we wish to stay users) need to protect ourselves and do a little of our own research… nothing wrong with that. It actually empowers you a bit. Why rely on LL for something you KNOW isn’t going to be done for you?

    ~Hops off her soap box~

  90. After looking at the LINDEN’s OWN VERIFICATON SITE, can anyone ever say they’ve been required to give out this level of information, just for a game?

    heres the link: https://secure-web6.secondlife.com/account/verification.php

    Think we’re paranoid? Think we can’t see what is coming? this is the first step in taxation of SL.

  91. Tamara Czervik says:

    Hi all:
    LL : your system is not working whit romanian identity documents numbers.
    I have used:

    1) My romanian passport serial number
    2) My personal ID number, that is a number that every romanian people have for all life and it don’ t change in any kind of romanian documents, it is always the same also if i change my rl name. This kind of identification is used each time by romanian police to identificate people, so it is impostt it is wrong. Must be your system that is not good elaborating it.

    I have just submitted a ticket about this issue, using the specific ticket kind listened in the support portal.
    I’m aviable to offer you any kind of help about romanian identity documents.
    Ty for your attention.

  92. Whitepaw Rolls says:

    I for one will be glad when they get over this age verification BS and move on to more importaint things like fixing real bugs.

  93. Vort Tzara says:

    I have to agree with recent comments and objections to Verification and my own view.

    First, I have given enough information to SL for them to be confident that I am an Adult. I am not satisfied on the other hand that SL has the legal right to be charging me VAT as a none-US resident thereby favouring US residents financially and unfairly putting me at a business disadvantage. Yahoo and AOL, to mention just two US sites, do not charge VAT (another countries taxes!) for services supplied within their borders. America does not own the world yet!

    Why, therefor, should I trust another country to hold any more information about me than is absolutly needed to service my account?

    Second: I have to agree with post 89 and I too look forward to the day when others come up with a 3D gride to which I can link my own server in the same maner as RIC. Linden labs sell a highly defective system at great cost. Moreso that I have lost a lot of money becuase of system failures. I had planned to buy a region but have changed my mind because of the VAT issue and the Big Brother way in which SL is increasingly acting.

    If parents and schools are so stupid to allow their children access to adult material then it is a matter for law and not SL. Lindens have enough information via payment methods to be if they drop Paypal and stick with credit cards to be able to say they have teken reasonable steps to block children accessing Adult material.

    Finally, for my part, I have no interest in the more extreme forms of adult material so Linden Labs could forgo the finance from that quarter and ban it. Age verification would then not be needed. Oh, I forgot, 90% of Linden’s money comes from porn!

  94. Klaatu Congrejo says:

    Many of the comments and questions raised here(and a few extra ones) have been raised in previous blogposts – yet still we get no answers.
    I’d like to add a couple more questions into the mix, questions I’ve been adding to the list ever since this ugly issue raised its head.
    1. I do not have a passport, I do not have a drivers licence, here in Australia I do not have an SSN (Social Security Number). We have TFNs here (Tax File Numbers) which you give to a bank whenever you open up an account. To get a TFN you have to give all your personal information to prove who you are (birth certificate, place of residence, place of work, medicare card, etc, etc). The TFN is used by employers to enable them to deduct tax from your pay.
    Now, to participate in SL I pay my tier fees and all other SL accounts thru PayPal. PayPal deducts my funds from my bank account – which has my TFN on file (you still with me?)
    Therefore, PayPal knows that I am who I say I am. My bank knows that I am who I say I am. The Australian Tax Department (and, by extension, the Australian Government) knows that I am who I say I am. So, why do you need further proof?
    You’re happy to bill me every month, so I assume that you agree that I am who I say I am too?

    2. If/when this IDV becomes mandatory I shall refer you first of all to my lawyer who will provide you (for a small fee) with a statutory declaration, duly signed by a judge, stating that I am who I say I am.
    Secondly, if that is not enough, I will refer you to the Australian Government Tax Department for a copy of my TFN – they will inform you that such personal data on its citizens is not legally available to non-Australian entities (and even Australian entities have to jump thru several hoops to get this information!).

  95. kerry says:

    What i want to know is what have Lindens done to reassure us of our fears, only two options for me my passport and driving liscence…just the details that are never supposed to be handed out. What is to stop a fraudster or terrorist getting the information…. oh and yes that is the details they just want.
    With the data your gathering my 8 year old daughter could make an account and i would not know…yet if she used my credit card i sure would.

    SO Lindens answer the questions stop hiding them in the mist.
    Fix your game so it runs properly, dont add any more features till it works.
    A lot of us pay a lot of money into your game in the hope it gets better. if you do not fix it some one will make a game better and cheaper than you and then watch yourself wither away

  96. Cherub Spectre says:

    I see so many people complaining and making demands..

    Remember folks, above and beyond all else, Second Life is STILL just a game. A virtual world that Linden Labs has put here for us to enjoy. Apparently you enjoy it because you’re still here. Why threaten such nasty things and wave the power to sue around like it’s nothing. Thats the very reason our world and economy is so messed up now. Everyone just can;t wait to sue someone.

    How about everyone just relax and enjoy your Second Life. Let the Lindens work it out. That’s their job. Our job… is to have fun!

    And yes, I am a business owner.. I know all the questions that COULD be raised… but don;t you all think it’s a bit earl in the game to start threatening someone that you’re gonna sue them if your needs are not met? My vote.. if it upsets you that bad.. leave the game! An attitude like that isn’t going to me missed anyhow.

  97. Bianca says:

    @37 and some others: you don’t need to be over 18 to have a PayPal account. My 14 yr old son has a verified PayPal account.

  98. Matheus Gleeson says:

    I haven’t tried to verify yet. I won’t, not until/unless it becomes a requirement. I SHOULD already BE verified; LL has my paypal. Here’s a question for you, though: If, for some reason, verification fails for me, does that mean I’m supposed to move to the teen grid? I’m 36. Verification Failure automatically assumes I’m under 18, right? … I really don’t want to move to the teen grid. LL, you can’t have it both ways. This is either an adult grid, or it’s “open to all.” The methodology you’re trying to institute will end up as an unofficial rider to your TOS, if you keep moving in this direction – the TOS might say “nobody under 18,” but your actions will speak louder than words, and leave you in a postition where the legality of your TOS is compromised by your own modified in-world rules.

    How about just require everyone to get verified in the old way, but charge $1 to their CC, PayPal, or Checking account? Maybe even automatically refund it, after a few days. Just to make sure LL shows up with an “age verification” purchase on the statement – this should be enough to keep the children offline. Anyone can get a credit card – some will need to get a pre-paid credit card, but anyone over 18 can get one.

    Hey, LL!! Not only will everyone be verified by a Legal means, but you’ll make a little cash with it, too!

  99. Kelly Green says:

    Point of fact: over the internet there is no true way to verify age or anything else if someone is intent on pulling a fast one or lying. If a kid will use his parent’s info ie credit card then they will use the driver’s license etc needed to verify it as well. Frankly at age 16 I looked old enough to pass for 26 and have to my knowledge never been carded for anything requiring age verification. I never really tried though when underage being relatively honest. Fact is the things needed to protect LL from action are in place. You cannot protect the kids bent on “cheating” but if they are underage and on site then they are not innocent.

  100. Matheus Gleeson says:

    For those of you who seem to be saying not to worry about it, that everything will be worked out, and the implementation will be slowly and carefully begun…

    Who here remembers the Casino ban? One day, it’s ok for someone to open and run a small casino in SL, and the next day? It’s “illegal” and all casinos are shut down. No warning. No hints. Business owners who had invested thousands of real life dollars suddenly had a bunch of useless equipment and surplus land.

    I’m not saying that a sudden implementation of the requirement to Age Verify will have that large an impact…. but maybe it will. It might be a mild impact, and it might be a major impact.

    And it won’t keep someone from making purchases the Age Verification is supposed to block them from making. If someone decides to purchase a sexbed without verification, they’ll just stand a sim over, disable camera constraints, and camera over and into the store, make their purchases, and go home to their pg-rated rental house and install the bed.

    oh, and @ 106 (Bianca): How did your son, age 14, get a verified PayPal account? Did you open a checking account with him, and make it possible? I think we can be fairly sure he didn’t open a checking account on his own, and PayPal does require a checking account for verification – a CC# only results in a limited account (and he shouldn’t have a CC# either, unless you aided him in acquiring one – oh, but you did! If you aided him in getting a verified PayPal account, then after a short time, he can get the PayPal Debit card, not to mention the Debit card from the checking account).

    Parents, remember this: If you help your child gain a CC of their own, you have just given them access to some of the raunchiest, nasty websites that exist. If they are showing promise in a business arena, then yes, they will need some access to financial methods more complex than the dollar bill – you can still keep an eye on things, just by owning the account they use for their business. Get your own verified PayPal account, and allow your prodigy access to it, that way you can keep an eye on all transactions. And you’ll see if your 14 yr old prodigy is making use of the Adult grid… or a “Farm Girl Porn” website.

    Take care, everyone – let’s play safe.

  101. Shade says:

    I am not a child and refuse to be treated like one. I on the other hand don’t trust Linden with security we all should remember the data loss not too long ago and now we are to trust your word on some third party site…… I don’t think so, I know you push the envelope too far second life won’t make the money its used to making you will, I say WILL ,lose a lot of paying gamers with age verification. Note: todays identity theft is sky high and getting worse not better and you bring us to a point telling us now we have to give copies of real world documents to some third party that I never even heard of. Its not up to me to baby sit some snot nosed brat its the responsibility of the parent to watch what their kids do.

  102. Erishkagal Serevi says:

    why don’t you just drop this stupid idea no one wants? We KNOW LL doesn’t “collect info” on us, but you constanty side step the FACT that the company you are using DOES. So LL doesn’t collect the info it just sells it. Gee thanks for caring about the people that made you rich.

  103. Ivantwin Rogers says:

    to number #106, that a game? wao but this game is to expensive for get some island, $299.00 full sims! and we cant not make a protest because that is a game!! yea!! aja,

    i hate the age verification system!!

  104. Vortex says:

    This is so much fun reading all this, privacy this, privacy that. When do these people realise this information is already known by these companies. This system verifies the data you provide to already known data they have of you. If it doesn’t match your verrification fails, simple as that

  105. Ai Austin says:

    I noticed that the “state” field was asterisked as “required” and clarly its not relevant for international users… looking through the options to see if there was a “None” but there was not. In fact it turned out that you couls age verify with that field NOT filled in.

  106. Prodigal Maeterlinck says:

    It seems LL would like to confirm that those who claimed to be unable to get verified actually are of age. Which would be reasonable, if the whole system weren’t unacceptable. But this seems the first admission that they’re realizing what a fiasco it’s becoming, if not what a fiasco it originated as. It wouldn’t surprise me if half a year from now LL were publicly signaling their regret by filing suit against Integrity for dereliction in their end of the contract.

    In the meantime, Michael and Zara Linden have made statements not yet posted to Official Blog to the effect that IDV is voluntary, and that there was no liability for landowners who took their own responsibility to screen minors. You can read the article and chat log here: http://www.gridgrind.com/?p=228

  107. sloopy cooder says:

    I strongly suggest NOT sending any data to Linden. Let the thing fail. We do NOT want it. Intrusive Age Verification is a gross invasion of privacy, violates many laws, and will destroy the adult grid. It is a massively error prone process that any teen can EASILY bypass with near zero effort. Your L$ value will be zero. Your land value will be zero. Do not comply, ignore it. They can’t implement it if nobody uses it. It will cut off their income stream to ban users that refuse.

  108. Efemera Bisiani says:

    /me notes with interest that the (broken) link to “our partners” privacy policy has now been totally removed. We have not even had any official notice as to who the partner *is*. (Yes, Integrity/Aristotle has been mentioned in past posts, but it would be courteous to confirm that now). I am happy to verify, once I can see a valid privacy policy from the agency I am submitting my personal data to. Doesn’t seem too much to ask, does it?

  109. Mistoffelees66 Fimicoloud says:

    Some things to get straight… It is not illegal for LL to ask for the LAST FOUR digits of your SSN. Now, if they asked for the whole thing, that would be different. They ask for information, if you bothered to pay attention to what the page asked for, that is found in online public records. Information you can find if you know how to do a proper search. Information that is, again, public. Nothing asked for is unreasonable.

    Since LL is not keeping the information, and Aristotle/Integrity is legally bound to not keep, I personally have no problem with the system, other than that it is not working for the majority of those outside of the US and Canada.

    The information used is insufficient for the purposes of gathering taxes, so stop crying wolf. 4 digits out of 11, come on, don’t be silly.

    Why do they ask for an email, your account with LL is attached to that email, or should be. That’s part of verifying your account is the one it claims to be.

    And the idea of Agelock, as linked by Rascal Ratelle, is rediculous. There is absolutely NO guarantee at all that the person claiming to be 18 or older is. You’re taking their word on it, and that is not good enough.

    One thing that seems clear to Me, the majority of those who are whole heartedly against age verification have something to hide. Either they are minors, or they run an adult business and know and encourage minors to visit.

    For those who are experiencing issues with the system, I hope they iron them out in short order.

    I hope the claim that people are using false data and getting verified is not true, but if that is the case, then that needs to be looked into.

  110. Raven Primeau says:

    borked? bodged? badly implemented? not tested properly? just plain Rubbish?

    Standard SL fare lately!

    Return to the old methods of joining SL from now on wipe out the griefers at the same time and you can forget this Age Verification tripe, its more flawed than a flawed thing.

    As a 40something with land and such paid for on C/C I see no further need to verify and as so many say its so easily bypassed/fooled.

    If owners of Adult plots flag land and restrict access then there goes their business after all.

    BTW. When is the compulsory issue of face veils and full body coverage scheduled for implimentation to keep the Muslim fraternity happy.

    whistles down the wind while LL slowly cut their own throats.

  111. Mistoffelees66 Fimicoloud says:

    “sloopy cooder Says:
    December 7th, 2007 at 4:27 AM PST

    I strongly suggest NOT sending any data to Linden. Let the thing fail. We do NOT want it. Intrusive Age Verification is a gross invasion of privacy, violates many laws, and will destroy the adult grid. It is a massively error prone process that any teen can EASILY bypass with near zero effort. Your L$ value will be zero. Your land value will be zero. Do not comply, ignore it. They can’t implement it if nobody uses it. It will cut off their income stream to ban users that refuse.”

    Get it through your silly underaged head, if you’re not underaged, grow up and improve your language skills, LL has never said it would start banning anyone for not age verifying. It will simply put in code that will deny you access to mature areas of the grid. Huge difference.

    Run along now and don’t cross traffic without looking both ways first; don’t accept candy from strangers, and for sake of the Gods, stop rumor mongering.

  112. Luthien Unsung says:

    Linden Lab, you already have my family and my information. We gave it to you when we signed up. Please use this and verify our entire family.
    Kindest thanx
    -Luthien Unsung

  113. Erishkagal Serevi says:

    One more thing. People that think this is a good thing to protect children irritate me. A LOT. This has nothing at all to do with Age Verification, but DATA MINING AND INFORMATION SELLING. LL got a lot of $USD to do this. If it was about age verification, the info provided at account creation would suffice, especially if you submitted payment info. This is just an attempt by LL to get info to sell. This is not about protecting kids, and it never was.

  114. Brenda Maculate says:

    I tried to verify the age of my primary Account and that of my alt. In both cases, I was told that my age was successfully verified– this was on the first day.

    Could it be that part of the problem was in the number of people trying to do it at the same time?

  115. Shade says:

    To number 118 just wondering do you really think a privacy policy matters? Lets play a game lets pretend the privacy policy is well good enough for you. But after oh lets say a few months all of the sudden your home is bogged down with advertisements and your phone seems not to want to stop ringing and your email becomes bogged down. You can’t sue what you can’t prove so the site could and will sell your info or what they call share with partners. Bet you don’t even know this but I will share it with every one this is not a complete list At@T, Verizon, Southwestern Bell all sell your info it even states it in their privacy policy they share it with their partners do you really think you can tract down all those partners and see how they will treat your info if you think can please let me know how you do it….

  116. fritz otoole says:

    I will for sure never give ANY additional information to ANYBODY .. LL das my cretid card number (dangerous enough), my name and my mailadress.

    When you US people try to squeeze the whole world in your crazy moral – you will not squeeze me!
    One more attempt to let SL die . splitting it in two halves, verified and not verified.

    I ask EVERYBODY her NOT TO VERIFY and I ask all kand ownerd NPT TO FLAG there place. As imple way to stop this nonsense and a semple way to avoid additional costs.

    Fritz from Austria, Europe who is 60 next year ..

  117. Erishkagal Serevi says:

    @119, they ask for the whole number in Canada…

  118. If I am not an adult then they should refund all the money I have paid.. that is ALLOT.

    The age verification failed with me because I am an American in France.. the ID documents that they requested are only for French nationals.

    I also sent my telephone bill to them to prove I am an adult but no one even took the time to answer my support ticket. In France, a minor could not order telephone service.

    My credit card should work also. A minor cannot acquire a credit card here in France.

    Finally I do not trust that agency they use.. very scary.

    One more thing.. I am utterly disgusted and am against age idenity altogether! This is BS!

  119. Kornation Bommerang says:

    TO people saying ‘they wont give their info to LL’ :-
    Its not LL thats getting it, LL just get the yes/no – this was said when it was first announced.

    TO people saying its against Uk law:-
    Data Protection Act, according to UK law buisness have to keep any data you hand to them for 2 years, including CV’s, Name, Addy etc etc – so they have a paper trail if anything is leaked, BUT they also must keep this info confidential. (Say you went to get a refund at Argos, you fill the form with your name and addy, they have to keep that for 2 years). It is also illegal to allow access to a minor stuff deemed Mature – Ie Porn – and there has to be barriers between said minor and subject at hand – a email addy isnt enough.

    To people saying MY INFO – ITS PRIVATE!:-
    Within probably an hour of just getting your name i could get a picture of your house, full address, credit history etc etc – mainly through legal sources. probably dont even need that, just an IP address. Its not HaX – its google.

    To people saying ‘Iam 18/19—98/99 and shoudln’t have to pass my info’:-
    erm.. yes you do, its called age verification for a reason – you may be that age, but how can anyone else tell?, this is normally done with a credit card, when you bought that ‘Nurse’s in bankook 6 – Its Enema Time’ you gave all this info to them. At the time you bought said service you probably had to give your address details aswell. Credit Card companys give your name out to buisness’s when you use your card and this is all you need to get other info.

    To people saying ‘Its Illegal Where I Live’:-
    Technically your already breaking the law using a 18 rated service without proving your 18+. oh wait your over 18? prove it. sl IS 18+ and im surprised this service wasnt in from the start.

    To those saying ‘but i only go to X place and its PG’:-
    Then it wont affect you – carry on like normal! It’ll effect M rated areas, which WILL need age verification, and would u rather give your info to ‘generic avatar6784’ or to a specialised company that deals in these things?

    To people saying ‘OMG It Doesnt Work! Im Euro/aussie/asia/etc!’:-
    Thank you entering the Beta – you have just given them great info into how to get this fixed BEFORE it leaves Beta (hopefully). Of course not all bugs will be fixed by then, but its better to have 99.9% fixed then than using the system we have now.

    To ‘Use Paypal Verification!’:-
    Then my 13yrold couson would have access – verification is of the account and the person not the age.

    The Age Issue needs to be sorted – and now is better than never

  120. Erishkagal Serevi says:


    Sorry wouldn’t embed.

    “To close, let me link a video that is actually published by Integrity for the purposes of drumming up business selling the information they are planning to use Linden Labs to collect. It’s quite frightening just how much they are prepared to pimp out the information they get.”

  121. Sir Defiant says:

    As co-owner and admin of a sim, and a UK resident, this is becoming intensely frustrating. As well as having an additional 17.5% to pay on the tier, thankfully we got the initial purchase out of the way, we are now unable to undergo the “voluntary” age verification. The process is not voluntary as we run a theme with strong adult content, therefore our choices are, verify, lose our investment or change the sim into something we don’t want. And so with reluctance we take the step of verifying, only to find that after we have given our personal details to an unknown company we still are no further forward in the procedure. While I am not going to go so far as those who compare it to apartheid, there is a definite bias forming against European players. I am quite willing to accept it as unintentional, but it is undeniably THERE. As a multinational organisation it should not be too much to expect LL to consider its multinational customers. I pay for my account, we pay for our sim. You may call us residents if you wish, but again jargon changes not the fact. We are paying customers recieving sub standard service. If the situation cannot be rectified and soon I forsee legal actions taken against LL by those whom have lost too much through what amounts to gross negligence.

  122. Chrysala Desideri says:

    LOL I m being FORCED to boycott, as LL now won’t even re-verify my CC or respond to my ticket, much less verify!

    Is this some way of slowly closing SL?

  123. Bianca says:

    @110 You just need a verifiable bank account and address to become a verified PayPal account holder. My son has a student bank account which he used for verification. It is not, and is not required to be, a checking account.

  124. Good Byesl says:

    I will not second & 3rd the opinions stated here, there are clearly formulated doubts about the securities & legality of the feature, which won´t need repetition.

    Just something to add

    Did it actually cross your mind that using residents and their REAL personal information is not necessarily a legal thing to do?

    Also QLinden says in another blog that he cannot say what the agreements between LL and the 3rd party are when it comes to data storage & further use because he is ONLY the coder. Well, one has to wonder how this feature can be secured according to the agreement, if the coder doesn´t even know what it is? Not a very convinient answer.

    I´ve been working with and for IT departments and I know what big thing it always was to use real life data for what ever sort of test, just because of the security issues and the attached legal risks.

    I will not even look at this feature before everyone is obliged to use it.

    Peope stop being sheeps! Please would you?

  125. Jericho Slade says:

    I ran into a “flagged” area yesterday. I’m more than old enough to view the content, but I haven’t bothered to verify, for most of the above reasons. But you know what? Aside from not being able to walk my avatar into the area, it was no big deal. I could still cam in there just fine, and probably could even have purchased there. So…as many others before have asked, what’s the point?

  126. Good Byesl says:

    Did it actually cross your mind that using residents and their REAL personal information is not necessarily a legal thing to do?

    Sorry missed the important… Is it actually a legal thing to do throughout a test phase, it must say…

  127. Fellatione Aabye says:

    Tried again … with Belgian

    1. My national Id card
    2. My “rijksregisternummer (=Identification number of the National Register
    3. Driving license (NOT a legal document in Belgium of indetification)
    4. My International Passport (Still in use have to renew it in 2010)

    Guess Dearest Robin what I got as answer …. !!!!!!!!!!!

    QUOTE Age Verification Failed

    The information that you provided did not match available public records. This can occur if your information has changed recently. If you moved or changed your name in the last 18 months, please try age verification again with your prior address or name.

    Please also try using a different identity document. Many countries use multiple identity documents, for example, a passport, driver's license, or national ID card. Please make sure that you've selected the proper country name.

    If you are still having difficulty verifying your age, or would like to learn more about the beta release of Age Verification, please read the FAQ on the Second Life Support Portal. UNQUOTE

    And worst of all Dearest Robin and Linden Labs … I did it against my own country laws, so now i m a criminial in my own country …..

  128. Chrysala Desideri says:

    and to those who keep “answering the doubter’s questions”

    answer the main one: who gurantees for Aristotle?

    Why in all of netland with super-yiffy sites, hotsed in U.S.A> have only Bud.tv and SL seen the incredibble “necessity” for integity/aristotle’s service?

    after 3 blog posts with comments requesting this important info, no Linden or Linden Defense League cuddlies even tries to answer that.

    it’s getting blatant.

  129. Erishkagal Serevi says:

    @140, yeah they didn’t have it before, but they do now. That’s the whole point of this thing. No one cares how old you are.

  130. Umbra Lunardi says:

    People, the key word here is VOLUNTARY. At no point will you be FORCED to comply with this policy if you don’t want.

    VOLUNTARY! Look it up.

  131. Hi! Question:
    On https://secure-web19.secondlife.com/community/support.php?questionID=4568 it says the verification is voluntary. Ok, good, then I won’t do it, I’m not looking for highly mature stuff anyway.
    BUT, it does not say if setting the flag for land owners is voluntary or mandatory. It says:

    “What if I come across very mature content on land that does not ban unverified adults?
    As has occurred in other cases, we expect our Residents to report such activity. (…) Clearly, any illegal activity or content will be investigated and appropriate action will be taken. (…)”

    Ok, we’re not talking about illegal activity or content, we’re talking about mature activity or content.

    So, as a member of the SL Art world, who sometimes visits exhibitions with photos of nude people (which I don’t consider mature anyway), I would like to know if these artists and gallery owners are forced to flag their parcels! Yes or no.

  132. kernowed Albert says:

    This age verification thing has me and many other residents lost LL you have not given us the exact details of how it will work and like many other residents i completely refuse to give my rl info to a third party which is illegal in my country anyway , also being a premium account holder you LL already have my rl info and that should suffice this scream is riddiculas you need to give us all the full and correct details of how this is going in to effect , when its going in to effect, and i dont mean on the blog you need to give the info in world where all residents can see it , why have you given us so little info on this you7 have shut yourselfs off from us in the time ive been in sl it has changed completely and the changes are ones we barely get any info on also you go ahead and implements ideas when 95% of residents are not in agreement i thought this was meant to be our second life not what your turning it into and therefore like many of the above and ppl who cant even be botherd to state there case i flattly refuse to give any rl info out to anyone im paid up premium account holder that should be good enough and why do you even need this stupid system which will fail if you implement it since there is a teen grid for minors anyway this is not clear youve left us in the dark once to often all i can say is this stupid sceme will fail sl has residents from all over the world and many of there countries laws would be in breach if they submit this info your expecting we need alll 100% of the facts if you even know them yourselves why are you being so secretive with us the ppl that make sl what it is im shocked at the way youve treated us since abandoning us by taking away live help and so many other changes you make without running it by us fully , and now this nonsence, give us all the info you have so we can understand it clearly plz the way you have dealt with this issue so far to many of us are in the dark its not good at all 😦

  133. apolonius barbosa says:

    apart from “Internationally based customers” what other customers are expected to age-verify? Extra-terrestrials? I was hoping they would be more advanced. Our do they mean us VAT paying European “aliens” who are already leaving in droves? Oh well. So long SL, and thanks for all the fish.

  134. Lozlo Peng says:

    If our own government (United Kingdom) can’t keep our details secure, then why should we trust you and this third party, LL?

  135. Kornation Bommerang says:

    To 132/133:-
    That just said they have the info already and can use it to verify age, NOT mine it from us, otherwise, how could they verify it?
    see http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7761449934365136994 – this should clear up some issue’s – they have the info already – their just checking your info off against what they have.

    To 137:-
    It IS legal to use your info to make age verification, and to test if their information is correct they need real info to test real info, you cannot test real info with fake info.

    To 141:-
    A website that just asks you to put in a birthdate can be sued for not having a secure enough age verification check, a birthdate check is there because these sites beleive it does enough to satisfy law makers on age verification – it doesnt – age restricted stuff needs to be restricted enough for 99.9% of under the age people to not be able to bypass it – i am surprised that many sites have not been sued yet, parents go get em! This could be juniors colledge fund.

    To 146:-
    Thats just fickle, they are an american company so anything outside of the USA is technically Internationally based.

    To 147:-
    They already have this info, they could lose it now before this is even implimented – they check you off against their database, not ask the govt each time if each individual is who they say they are.

    To 148:-
    its volentary if you choose not to access M rated areas, but M rated areas will be forced to use this.

    All the above answers were already given out by LL or Aristotle.

  136. Good Byesl says:


    I meant from the test procedure itself…One should not use Real Persons Information for running a test on a software to be implemented later…

    Sure to test your ID you need real data somehow

Comments are closed.