Knowledge Base Article of the Week #7: Age Verification Beta

Brace yourselves. The Knowledge Base Article of the Week, much like last week, is actually multiple articles this time (two, to be precise). Our subject: The Age Verification beta.

To read either of these Knowledge Base Articles of the Week, just click on the link of your choice. After providing your login credentials, you’ll be taken directly to the article in question.

Just as a reminder, Jeremy and I will be holding our Documentation Office Hour in our surplus couch and deluxe information depot Friday at 2pm SLT. Feel free to stop by and chat about all things Knowledge Base — suggestions for new articles, information that might be missing, ideas about processes, and so on (as always, support requests are for the Support Portal). Enjoy the rest of your week!

This entry was posted in Community, Customer Service, Resident Experience, Tips & Tricks. Bookmark the permalink.

151 Responses to Knowledge Base Article of the Week #7: Age Verification Beta

  1. Sweet Primrose says:

    Quick, think up some more blogs to post so you can push the age verification comments out of sight.

  2. Lupercaleb Walcher says:

    yaaay

  3. Jasmin Marquez says:

    great thingie if it would work girls 🙂 the Faq’s arn’t workin, enter your numbers and the vertification afterwards does not work at all 🙂 does not matter what you are goin to enter there, you get always : Vertification Failed. you might check your system otherwise its worthless to let me as a landowner set this feature while noone can enter the parcel *laughs*

  4. Vanessa Sakai says:

    What does Payment info used, Not mean? I have succesfully verified.

  5. I would think it would get more testing if you added it to Windlight First Look?

  6. Drako Nagorski says:

    lol i’ll post it again

    my 2 views:

    verify, and if your info is stolen, sold, or lost, you get to SUE LL 😀

    and:

    just dont verify and dont flag parcels!

  7. Drako Nagorski says:

    oh and i cant log in to the windlight :/

  8. Aryon Dagger says:

    why not get SL running smoothly THEN worry about ages. OH maybe SL will never run smoothly … hmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Form answer emails, no online support, basic account holders unable to use the forums, solid red lines for packet loss AND lag … whatever next. But … it is the season for miracles, maybe, just maybe there will be one and all the downtime will amount to something. Not everyone has or wants or can have credit cards. Not all of us believe that you just want our info for age verification. Ah well, enough preaching and back to the land of SL where money earned has no value, stealing property is ok as long as you’re a Linden (because like there is no spoon in the Matrix), in SL according to the Linden’s there is no property and where all the downtime comes during prime time GMT hours. Thanks for a chance to say all the things I can’t say in the forums.

  9. Argent Stonecutter says:

    Just got an IM, database problems, logins are disabled. :p

  10. nahona says:

    Ok Lindens ARE YOU CRAZY or what? i just go to the beta verify stuff and what i see? i select my country who IS Belgium, and… and… no NATIONAL IDENTITY CARD as ID document for verify? just PASSPORT? i never go outside OF Europe, i don’t need a passport at all!!! i don’t GO to pay FEE for it ONLY TO GO ON SecondLife !!! What the …. oh damn Lindens !

  11. Jasmin Marquez says:

    after callin em, we get the answer to fill a ticket. Well since im so used to tickets I can do that without any Faq’s. So are you ready for 8 million Tickets in the next hours, or do you fix your system soon ? lol

  12. Anyone who is against age verification needs to simply get over it. It’s coming and no amount of whining can do anything about it.

    I frankly hope the next step is to make SL all pay. I have little interest in hearing people who don’t pay for something complain about it. I’m also sick of supporting a population of 90% freeloaders.

  13. Drako Nagorski says:

    lol spam LL! call em and mail em and send tickets! title all of the tickets and emails NO AGE VERIFICATION – [your SL name]

  14. Drako Nagorski says:

    @12:
    oh, i pay… but im tolerant of others and happen to get the same crap they do… lag, crashes, cant login, lols age verification. bugs, “fixes”, more bugs from the “fixes”, downtime to fix the “fixes” and to test for new bugs

  15. Keiko Rau says:

    Again, remind me why we need age verification, when everyone on the ADULT grid is over 18?

    If they lie on the TOS, they will lie/fake/steal on the verification.

    This is purely a marketing scam.

  16. Redux Decosta says:

    Features are great. Everyone loves features, and I have nothing but gratitude for LL’s hard work in developing new features.

    That being said, there will be no age-verification requirement on any of my sims, and I encourage other land barons to leave age verification disabled out of respect for those whom age verification is not feasible. leave it to the parcel owners to decide.

    I consider this an extension of “mature content” parcels; not a way for people to carry out an age crusade.

  17. Ciaran Laval says:

    Oh dear, the FAQ, really:

    “Why do we need it?

    While not foolproof, age verification can provide an additional layer of trust for inworld businesses and Residents. It also helps ensure that minors can’t gain access to inappropriate adult, mature content in Second Life. ”

    While not foolproof? It’s verging on being one of the most easily worked around verification systems ever and in no way enhances trust, solely because it’s so easy to get around.

    You’ve been told this in concierge beta by many people. Do you guys ever talk to each other or do you put your fingers in your ears and say “Blah blah blah I’m not listening”.

    The huge flaws in this system were pointed out to you guys more or less from day one. This does not enhance trust, this will not prevent minors from accessing adult material.

    More to the point, you already have a system in place that is more secure and more likely to prevent minors accessing adult material, it’s payment info used and is a hell of a lot more trustworthy than this third party solution.

  18. I agree with #5. I am currently not using the reg. Second Life viewer. I have been using the windlight viewer because I have found it to be, actually, easier with less issues. Put it on the Windlight Viewer so that we can have a chance to test it as well.

    “During the beta period, age verification will be free to Residents. No end date for the beta test has been specified. Once the beta test is over, a fee may be charged for getting age-verified, though no decision has been made around this.”

    I am not arguing the point of paying vs. not paying to age verify. (Thats a different subject entirely) Just supporting the stick it in Windlight cause.

  19. Jasmin Marquez says:

    well make me a snapshot if you try to fake or steal or lie on vertification. a number in your passport, Id or SSN isnt something LL create and can be mixed and match just to show the information you wanna display lol

  20. Desiree Pera says:

    I’m still a little nervous about letting that kinda information out on the internet.. =/

  21. Skye Devonshire says:

    ok, I amall about a age verification Idea but cant we get a bit of SL fixed first? I mean realy most times I cant search …anything , Other times I lag so bad I turn game off This is by far the mostexspencive game I play and yet its the one with the most bugs….I know Linden Labs making bank why not invest a bit of it …Then lets talk about age verfication.

  22. Sean Heying says:

    @ 10, In Australia we don’t have a SS number, yet that is an option >.>
    @ 12, Unfortunately you are right, nothing can be done… like voice
    @ 13, that is illegal in US law.

    @ Robin Linden. 150 entries in a post you KNEW would raise the ire of the residents is stupid. You have *once gain* set the name of the Lindens back a hundred years.

    Do us a favour Robin, RESIGN and GO WORK FOR YOUR CHURCH.

    Oh, and I have age verified, maybe it will stop people looking at my Child Av and saying “OMGZ Children on the intarweb thingie. We are all gunna die”

  23. fyrepunx Leader says:

    I don’t mind this verification but I just tried EVERY way they gave me to verify, called the support line and all they told me to do was file a ticket. I was actually looking forward to this new policy but if this is how they plan to implement it then it shows once again they did not do enough testing on the system. Let’s just hope they solve this soon

  24. Kula Anatine says:

    i verified it worked for me so whats the problem in the last blog people were all tif tif huf huf wa wa whats the deal you really want a perv suit against you all. Things have problems at first i think its worth it i bet a lot of venue’s have a lot to lose gorean and bdsm have the most minutes per parcel then anyone. Gambling went now sex could be band to . SL would get real exspensicve with out the highend vender’s footing the bill no more free acounts no more new freebie’s and the goverments down are throats so count your blessing, kids can do what ever they want we are the one’s that get in to trouble here and it helps with griefers too its a pain i know but its a pain im willing to deal with

  25. Sean Heying says:

    /me giggles “My Dad just went out to mow the lawn and left his wallet on the counter… I quickly wrote down his drivers licence number and WOOOHOOO I am now verified… Wow, strip clubs and escorts here I come!”

  26. Alicia Sautereau says:

    unless this time Linden Lab clearly states what is mature content or not, i think it would be wise to NOT enable it or half the grid will be unaccessable

    random enforcing on nudity, pictures people have in their house/store/hangout/what ever, furries, tinies or what ever idiots will find “offensive” will be reported and in cases it is “according” to some vague rules, the random enforcing will start as with everything so far

    still a good move as it will restrict our wallets without our intervention who simply do not want to verify with some dodgy company
    if we should take your (linden lab) word on trust with some corperate privacy statement, santa is real

  27. fyrepunx Leader says:

    I have decided to stay unverified until they make this a bit easier I own all my own island anyway so who cares ROFL

  28. Jasmin Marquez says:

    “Please be sure that you’ve attached the following materials to the ticket:

    – An electronic (scanned) copy of government issued identification that has your date of birth clearly displayed. This could be:
    — Driver’s license
    — Passport
    — Birth certificate

    – An electronic (scanned) copy of a utility bill clearly displaying your name and address”

    geez guys, i would like to just enter that damn number to ur system if you would let us do this. Now I have to attach those papers, I could visit your Office since it isnt that far and hell after i did, would you promise i could enter this number or do I need to strip for someone ? rofl I keep my Account like it is, till someone fix this system. It can’t happen to receive an answer like this.

  29. Sean Heying says:

    Terminology:

    Parcel = 16M2-65535M2 subdivision of land
    Region = Sim, Island, 65535M2 of land, one name on a map
    Estate = a group of regions owned by the own person (eg: dreamland)

    From the knowledgebase “The parcel owner can always access the estate.”

    So, if I buy a single 16M2 parcel in one G rated region in Dreamland I can now access the entire Dreamland estate, including all the Broadly Offensive stuff?

    Can you please clarify this. Do you mean that a parcel owner in the region can always access it? Or do you mean the parcel owner can always access their own parcel.

    What if the parcel is group owned? Can all members of the group access the parcel, Region or Estate… or Is the owner now blocked?

  30. Flame Swenholt says:

    Well, I know I’ve been asking all about it, but now I’m concerned if I don’t get my drivers license, which is the ONLY thing I would be able to even send online to anyone since I highly doubt my father would understand me sending in a birth certificate or what ever. I mean yay to proving people are who they are, but now I feel bad because I know there will be people who won’t be able to prove themselves because of permissions.

  31. chrisse Zabelin says:

    bad idea Linden Labs!
    1st of all that does not work by me…
    2nd:
    Jeska Linden Says:

    December 5th, 2007 at 4:04 PM PST
    Hey everyone, the security certificate message was due to the link starting with “https” instead of “http” and has since been fixed -sorry about that!

    and no statement to the other users that are angry?
    it does not work… and till you LL fixed it all we can not enter regions who set that right?
    yeaaw where is the post a few days before to notificate us? you forgot that or what?

    well SL is anyway an ADULD GRID so why an age verification? There was a Teen Grid b4….

    that is really stuipt im sorry….

    please LINDEN LAB at least you could write a Statement to that!
    wont work
    its not needet
    99% of all SL residents dont like it

    IF YOU CONTINUE THIS THINGS…. YOU WILL HAVE SOON MAX. 30.000 USERS ONLY ONLINE…
    many SL residents will leave SL… you dont even ask us what we want? we write an email with 400 people to support with ONE idea about SL what 99.9 % of users would LOVE! you only write “we are sorry that we are not able to do that at the moment please let us know if we can do anything for you” that makes real sence you dont think so? rofl

    well everyone i asked would be happy about this idea (what i wont explain here now) but you dont care…
    so LL one questiuon….. do you really care aout all the residents?

    SL should be “MADE BY RESIDENTS – FOR RESIDENTS” or is that wrong???? well you better should listen what ALL OF THE RESIDENTS want here in SL and not what you want or what you think or like…. SL should be everything what most of the residents like…

    or maby another stupit idea of me
    did you ever thought about Fixing all the bugs before you add more and more and more features? well SL lags, crashes then came voice… sl crashes, laggs, unable to login, and there was Windlight… then SL laggs, SL Crashes, unable to connect to dns server, and IF u can login always… tp doesnt work, money is shown as loading and so on….. then came now the age verification….
    WHAT ARE YOU GONNA DO NEXT??? new features? really helpful lindens sure…. bugs getting more, features getting more, and bugs ever more the before….

    and now an age verification that doesnt work by 40 – 50 % of the residents

    do you MAKE the bugs only that you can work more?

    really lindens i dont understand that

  32. hugsalot says:

    I still don’t see the point of this. If they don’t want people under 18 to lie about their age, what the hell is the point of the Teen Grid? Why aren’t those teens getting age verified before they can get on the Teen Grid so perverted adults don’t get on the teen grid?

    And if I can link my age verification to a number of alt accounts, then what’s stopping an adult giving “adult verification” to some teen’s avatar?

    Besides aren’t residents restricted to the number of alts we can have? But they can’t even keep track of THAT since it’s so easy to make alt accounts with bogus information.

    I think most everyone will remain unverified until they have an actual reason to do so. As long as land owners of the areas you hang out at don’t bother flagging their land as “adult” then this will be all for nothing.

    The real problem will be from douche bag tattle tails who report on land owners who aren’t flagging their as adult. Which will probably be done by avatars who aren’t age verified and are under 18.

  33. qlinden says:

    Hi, folks. At the risk of stepping into the deep end, I’d like to make one point that seems to be a problem for some.

    Let’s make it clear: WE DON’T KEEP YOUR DATA.

    I’m the one (hold the rotten tomatoes, please) who wrote most of the viewer code and the sim code for managing the age verification flag. And I can assure you that all we keep in the Linden databases is the simple flag “Y” or “N” based on whether you’ve been verified by our third party provider. That’s it. There’s nothing to leak.

    In addition, we now have flags at the estate level and the parcel level that can be managed by landowners and used to limit access based on the age verification flag.

    The whole point of this is to allow landowners to have mature content on their land, and to be able to put some teeth behind protecting access. In my opinion, it’s a good thing.

  34. Well i have tried every conceivable method of verification and it fails.. good work this should be a real hit for Linden Labs, i suppose everyone will have to manually verify then?? lol this is an absurd waste of time thats only going to end in failure for everyone.

  35. Does the US have any data protection laws like we do in the UK? I’m guessing not because of the blatant disregard for privacy in the WHOIS databases for websites using US TLDs like .COM where you can find all sorts of personal information. So why would I want to pass on my driving license or passport numbers to a country who don’t seem to have an issue with divulging users information as soon as they’re asked for it. Google and eBay are notorious for it, how do we know LL aren’t the same?

    While I’m not going to start moaning about the instabilities of the grid and ask that you sort these first, I do have to question the validity of this system. Please, please, please take us back to the stage where free accounts are restricted to one per credit/debit card or PayPal account so that we can get some kind of control over who is signing up and hassling those of us who want a peaceful Second Life.

    AND WHY DOESN’T THIS FORM WORK IN FIREFOX? I have to reopen the page in IE every time to submit a comment

  36. @32 – You can disregard that part of my comment about retaining my data then, your post was made while I was writing mine, sorry 😀

  37. fyrepunx Leader says:

    I can also say this system does not work under any circumstances for me, I have tried multiple browsers and every time failure, please if you want me to participate in this help me a little by making it work

  38. Phoxpaws Vollmer says:

    #32 How come when I did the verification on the web page and it said I was, then said I wasn’t in the viewer or on my land????

    Or are we still in alpha here?

  39. Sean Heying says:

    @ qlinden: Let’s make it clear: WE DON’T KEEP YOUR DATA.

    Sorry, you do. Anyone who has dealt with Billing and needs to do anything account related, like credit cards, is asked to verify their data.

  40. Pingback: Age Verification? » Kabalyero

  41. Thunderclap Morgridge says:

    I will say this. qlinden, that was a brave thing to do. You will probably be the most hated linden for a while now. So, can you send me your bear now or do I have to meet you inworld?

    Thanks for the work, seriously.

  42. Myke Patton says:

    drivers license didn’t work. neither did social security.
    is it really worth it? coz i just submitted my info for nothing.
    .. my foot’s halfway out the door now 😛

  43. Ceera Murakami says:

    OK, some problems:

    1: If an estate owner wants their sim to be off-the map, they have to keep the “Public Access” box unchecked for the Estate. This allows access then only for the owner, estate managers, explicitly allowed individuals list and explicitly allowed groups list. BUT, there is then no way for the estate owner to specify that only “payment info on file/used” or “Age Verified” individuals are allowed access. Those choices are greyed out if Public Access isn’t checked. So if the sim has three parcels, and each parcel has a land access group on the estate access list, the sim owner has NO WAY to enforce that an individual who is not age verified can’t come in, because any of the group owners could add anyone that they choose to their parcel access lists, thus granting Estate access as well.

    2: At the Parcel level, the same problem exists. I can’t restrict a parcel to group access only AND insist that the group members must be age verified or have submitted payment info. To get the ‘benefits’ of age verification, I have to open my group land to anyone? But to restrict a parcel to a group only, I have to take the full burden of age verification on myself, and can’t use the age verification system?

    3: If a parcel is set to “Buy Pass”, you also can’t restrict access only to age verified individuals. Anyone who pays for the pass can get in. Which means no adults-only venue can use the Buy Pass feature?

    The flags for restricting access only to those with payment info submitted and/or who are age verified should NOT be tied to the estate “Public Access” checkbox or to the parcel “Public Access” checkbox. Allow us to add either payment info or age verification as a second check, on top of allowed groups or access lists.

    At both the parcel and estate levels, whether a pass is required or not, you should be ALSO able to specify age verification is required, and that requirement should trump just being in an access group or on an access list or trying to buy a pass (which you shouldn’t be able to buy the pass if it’s pass required + age ID required and you don’t have ID verified). Basicly, a parcel owner needs to be able to say, “I don’t care if you’re a member of the club, or if you have a ticket for the venue, I still need to see your ID to serve you booze at the bar, or to let you into the back room with the live sex show and hookers.”

    4: If someone checks BOTH age verification required and payment info submission requited, does the visitor have to have both? Or will one or the other do? Is there a clear way to say either “Age verified AND Payment info filed” or to say “Age verified OR Payment info filed”? Right now it looks like the options are just payment info, just age info, or both age AND payment info. No OR option.

    5: If someone is explicitly on the “Allow” list for an estate or for a parcel that requires age verification, do they get in even if they have no verified ID on file? That would seem to be the case from what it says in the new FAQ, and would allow for things like “My Partner lives in Lower Slobovia in RL, and their ID won’t pass. I want to allow them access to our ID-required home while the mailed in proof of age is being mailed, translated, and examined.” But on the other hand, that also means that anyone who can edit that access list can allow a minor to get in. Like the bouncer at a club allowing a friend to get into the bar without showing ID.

  44. alf lednev says:

    waits for ebay to start selling age verified SL avies to anyone who wants one

  45. the bat says:

    @32
    And I can assure you that all we keep in the Linden databases is the simple flag “Y” or “N” based on whether you’ve been verified by our third party provider. That’s it. There’s nothing to leak.

    Thats exactly the point qLinden — nobody trusts your third party provider , who incidentally are asking for information it is illegal for the bulk of your customers/users to provide .

  46. Alicia Sautereau says:

    qlinden, that dodgy so called “3rd party” has a proven track record of selling gatherd data as posted in several forum threads

    asfor willingly supplying any info to some dodgy company and i`ll be in violation myself with our data protection act ffs

    i`ll never verify and this will be the crippling blow to the economy along with the stupid search, GL!

  47. Yanik says:

    It fails, and fails, and fails again. I’m already Paiement Info Used, and i spent more in a couple months then a minor would be able to in many years. Come on Lindens! You have my credit card number. And you now suspect me to be a child? This is nonsense!

  48. JaeMarie Tachikawa says:

    I don’t like the fact that some company wants my personal information like my SS#. That just creeps me out, what if it gets into the hands of the wrong person. I’m sure the company has good intentions but if one person doesn’t or someone figures out how to corrupt something my IDENTITY could be tampered with. Also what is the deal with PG Lands on the Adult Grid? That seems like an oxymoron.

  49. Tosh Snook says:

    I’m sure those links are useful to the people that can read them, I dunno?

  50. KittyCat Rosebud says:

    Please removed Bills as Proof of age.

    This will encourage juveniles to tamper with mail and some poor souls will be put at risk for loseing a utility or their home.

  51. Darius Lehane says:

    I tried it. It was painless and quick, and the information required is not enough to use for identity theft — no real downsides, and it seems like a good idea.

  52. Myke Patton says:

    This isn’t nonsense…it’s VERY BAD BUSINESS.
    Nobody likes having to submit their personals in the first place. This flimsy verification system you’re pretending is effective is only confirming our worst fears!

    I mean at least make sure it works first… lol… plus there’s no option to use my blood type, fingerprints, or retinal scan. ;_;

  53. Maklin Deckard says:

    “Let’s make it clear: WE DON’T KEEP YOUR DATA. ” – qlinden

    Again, you lindens only answer HALF the questions. I trust LL (mostly) not to keep and abuse the data. BUT I DO NOT TRUST YOUR SCUMBAG PARTNERS AT (NO)INTEGRITY! They have had several ‘ooops, we sold data we shouldn’t have’ accidents, they are closely tied with neanderthal conservative politicos….WHY would I even begin to trust these people?

    Until you post a written letter from Integrity stating in plain english, no legalese, that they will not keep, use, sell or otherwise use my info for ANY reason but SL verification, no way I am going to verify. Your partners are untrustworthy….their privacy policy is unavailable (the link, as others says, just goes back to the same page).

    Dump (no)Integrity or get them to make a public statement to the players here on the blog stating they will not user our info, then I will verify. Otherwise, forget it.

  54. Pingback: Age Verification « Virtually Dressed

  55. SunShine Kukulcan says:

    @ 15. Bless and YOU hit the nail directly on the head.

    I am a private island owner, pay my tier on time and spend massive amounts of L’s on a monthly basis.

    It is an INSULT to require me to submit my PERSONAL information to a company that has sister cos that are data-mining cos. Linden Labs may NOT save the info, but you can be damned sure that the info is still available to them.

  56. qlinden says:

    @42: Ceera, a few responses:

    1 + 2) you’re correct. The presumption is that Age Verification is for public access parcels — if you’re allowing someone on your parcel by name, then you “know” them.

    3) I understand your objection, and this and the previous one feel like the kind of thing that should probably be debated in a JIRA report. Can you file two JIRAs, please, describing what you’d like to see?

    4) The flags are ANDed — there’s no OR option.

    5) Yes, the Allow list overrides age verification. If you want to invite someone by name into your home, you should be able to.

  57. Susie Boffin says:

    I’ll never know if it works because I won’t be using it ever. Ever means forever.

  58. KittyCat Rosebud says:

    5) Yes, the Allow list overrides age verification. If you want to invite someone by name into your home, you should be able to.

    That’s good to hear. I know there are some parents on SL that have talked LL into understanding they prefer their children on adult Sim inside their Personal Islands only. This may allow some parents that know each other in reality and family members to connect and keep their kids on their land.

  59. Alicia Sautereau says:

    #56

    allowing people by name as we “know them” and they can be a minor but we just haven`t noticed so that is pritty much pointless with IDV enabled as you only know some one when meeting in RL and seeing them login with their avatars

    might aswell kill all the loopholes to make sure us unverified can`t get anywhere if it gets enforced lol

  60. starhunter Gall says:

    @ 32 qlinden
    =Hi, folks. At the risk of stepping into the deep end, I’d like to make one point that seems to be a problem for some.

    Let’s make it clear: WE DON’T KEEP YOUR DATA.

    I’m the one (hold the rotten tomatoes, please) who wrote most of the viewer code and the sim code for managing the age verification flag. And I can assure you that all we keep in the Linden databases is the simple flag “Y” or “N” based on whether you’ve been verified by our third party provider. That’s it. There’s nothing to leak.

    In addition, we now have flags at the estate level and the parcel level that can be managed by landowners and used to limit access based on the age verification flag.

    The whole point of this is to allow landowners to have mature content on their land, and to be able to put some teeth behind protecting access. In my opinion, it’s a good thing.==
    ======================================

    Well see that there is another problem in it self a third party company. Many of us who have payment on file used credit cards, which require verification of age to get anyway. An dont landowners allready have a option to deny entry by payment info ? so why add more code to SL, when the newest add-ons are all bugging out. The TOS says for age 18 and up, so any minor who is on the main grid lied, and they will lie to verify, NO ANDS OR IFS about that. IT again falls onto parents to Keep Second life away from their children, not Linden Labs or some third party company. Could allways add to the TOS saying “Parents if you created this acount for your child of minor age, you will be sued” or something along that lines. Enough with the NEW features, fix whats out make the grid stable before adding new bugs.
    thank you, and thank you for the fine job you all try to Due I know it cant be easy, but try to keep on track whats important

  61. experiment time says:

    is this supposed to be AGE verification or IDENTITY verification?

    managed to verify, but realised when i had hit the ok button, that i had mistyped the drivers licence number, but the system still verified me.

    so is this really just a data mining experiment?

  62. Zack84 Burton says:

    @34 Social Security Numbers have become so popular as ID tools that many of the protections that once existed are now gone. Actually financial institutions may require you provide your SSN as proof of identity under the Patriot Act. The U.S. Social Security Administration says this:

    The Social Security number (SSN) was originally devised to keep an accurate record of each individual’s earnings, and to subsequently monitor benefits paid under the Social Security program. However, use of the SSN as a general identifier has grown to the point where it is the most commonly used and convenient identifier for all types of record-keeping systems in the United States.If a business or other enterprise asks you for your SSN, you can refuse to give it. However, that may mean doing without the purchase or service for which your number was requested.

    As a California company the laws Linden Labs are mostly directly regulated by regarding privacy are Civil Code sections 1798.80-1798.84. If that “Privacy Policy” link on the age verification form still isn’t working that could be a big no-no…

  63. U M says:

    Finally! Wonders how many are going to be unable to access sl after this 🙂

  64. Farallon Greyskin says:

    Hi Q Linden,

    I totally 100% agree with you that this is a good /idea/.

    However, there is absolutely no technical way to make it work. Even just the horrible innacuracies in the Integrity DBs for one but worse, in SL there is no way to prevent non verifieds from observing adult material in SL. Its just 100% handwaving. I mean I’m SURE you can see that.

    So yes, the /idea/ is good, the implentation is bad, implenting it may be nearly impossible. So being stuck with something that is basically, compeltely hypocriphal… it’s maddening, and really the /only/ thing it will accomplish is to slow the growth rate and inconvinince everyone.

    There is no plus to this whatsoever from the users perspective I’m afraid. Even though this user would LOVE to have a quick, easy, accurate and 100% usable age verification system in place. 😦

  65. LC Hoorenbeek says:

    What if I come across very mature content on land that does not ban unverified adults?

    As has occurred in other cases, we expect our Residents to report such activity. As has always been the case, Residents are morally, socially and legally responsible for their actions and content in Second Life. Clearly, any illegal activity or content will be investigated and appropriate action will be taken. We expect the community to continue to be effective and responsible in ensuring that Residents are sufficiently protected from potentially inappropriate and/or offensive content that is adult in nature.

    LOL, forget the ‘voluntary’ spiel for owners of sims with anything resembling very mature content. As has been mentioned ad nauseam, it won’t stop minors who want to get in, but it will give others a (false) sense of security, and ensure that everyone’s covered their butts, re: any legal responsibilities.

    So why don’t you open the game up to all ages, have PG areas and restrict the rest; though, I suppose this is a step towards that scenario — a few years down the track, then?

    And, Katarina (@12, graf 2), get over yourself, or at least point to the Lab for the policies it’s adopted, bringing about that which you so dislike.

  66. Tree Kyomoon says:

    Its good, but for those of us NOT using second life for “adult reasons” its totally unnecessary..I hope this leads to a unification of the “teen grid” with the regular grid, and we can keep the adult stuff relegated to a hidden corner where it should be.

  67. Sean Heying says:

    > 1 + 2) you’re correct. The presumption is that Age Verification is for public access parcels — if you’re allowing someone on your parcel by name, then you “know” them.

    Ummm, hang on, IDV is on building trust according to Robin… you know the Av, not the typist.

    Anyway the presumption is wrong.

    I have one of my sims as open access, but it is kidsafe, so many children are there.

    I want to set it to be verified, that way there is no question all the kids on that island are only pixel kids.

    yet… the land is group owned…

    As the group sends out notices… the group is joinable…

    But that means a RL kid can join my group and get access to my land?

    So how does this build trust again?

  68. Jan says:

    Amazing. Tried to verify 3 weeks ago and it didn’t work.
    Tried again today and it still don’t work. So, is this verification only for US players or is us from europe also supposed to be able to use it? It will not accept my drivers license, passport number or my ID number.

    Guess I will keep my info to myself and let LL play it’s own game. Should soon be enough space for all to find a quiet sim and admire windlight and use voice to talk about failed TP’s , Lag, lockup in graphics, crashes and countless other bugs.

  69. Aranea Cullen says:

    Few simple questions:

    Why do you (lindens) blatantly ignore the public outcry against Age Verification?

    Especially when they bring to the table justfiable and in your face proof that not only will it be illegal for people to participate, but your third party is untrusted (has a history of wrong doing and mismanagement of information and no representative of this third party has come forward) and it borders on discrimination due to the “verification” process excluding many countries because it is against the law for them to give that information?

    Moreover, the reason given for age verification has so many loop holes within it that I am sure lawyers would love to jump through and nail LL to the wall. I do not wish to see LL fight in a minefield where it will lose and do so drastically fail. I love SL, even with the lag, the bugs etc I do not want to see SL suffer because LL is implimenting a redundant timebomb waiting to backfire on them.

    Period.

    Perhaps I am too much of a nay-sayer, but I can only see this turning badly and coming back around to bite LL in the ass; crippling SL, the bulk of the community leaving due to legality issues with their home countries and Identity theift issues, lawsuits and scams in the aftermath of using a third party with a less than perfect track record. Kill off the little bulk of the community, you will have nothing but producers in SL with no consumers to buy their virtual products… no community and you may as well have just made SL into a MSN or Yahoo program cause that will be what it will become. Nothing that made SL great All you’ll have is just a simple text to text window open window. The bells and whistles won’t mean a damn thing.

    SL will never be the same.

    I’ll shut up now. Obviously the only questions the public is getting answered are those that boost this…. *bites tongue* … system without addressing any of the hard concerns of the public.

    *Shakes head* Take care and be well
    Ara.

  70. Pingback: Second Life age verification - beta is live : The Metaverse Journal

  71. Ann Otoole says:

    do you keep the data transmitted to aristotle from your website? in any way? in web logs? how do you not have a record of this data retained?

  72. Allana Dion says:

    qlinden: “In addition, we now have flags at the estate level and the parcel level that can be managed by landowners and used to limit access based on the age verification flag.

    The whole point of this is to allow landowners to have mature content on their land, and to be able to put some teeth behind protecting access. In my opinion, it’s a good thing.”

    Nope, I don’t need your “flags” thank you. I have my own system and it works fine. http://www.agelock.net/

  73. Tya Fallingbridge says:

    To the lindens, CANADIANS are coming back FAILED! This needs to be looked into …

  74. LC Hoorenbeek says:

    “The information that I am providing is true and correct, and I consent to its verification against public records or government-issued identification.”

    There’s probably legalise elsewhere regarding the Age Verification Beta page but you might wanna tighten up the above text. As it stands, someone can use anyone’s info, as long as it’s ‘true and correct’.

    Just saying.

  75. Aranea Cullen says:

    Just one of the many discrimination aspects of the system Tya. Also it is illegal for Canadians to give out the information they are asking for to “verify” ourselves. Infact. It is illegal for those in the UNITED STATES to be giving out the information they are asking for. It is in a bill in their library of congress. Yet another thing LL has not addressed.

    As well there are many other countries with similar laws and regulations stipulating such information as Social Security numbers, Social Insurance numbers, passport codes are illegal to reprint outside a government sanctioned court order where they can sopena that information. If I have not been lead astray.

    I doubt highly, any of the countries have been contacted regarding this breach into personal information security and I doubt even more so that they will give their consent for their people to participate in something that can easily lead to Identity theift and a host of other problems.

  76. Neural says:

    Like I said on the previous thread. If there is nothing to worry about with our personal data. If age verification is sooOOooo secure. YOU FIRST Lindens.
    Once Phillip, Robin, and the others have provided their real life information to the company that does this age verification, then I’ll consider it. If they are unwilling to do such a simple thing, then it’s pretty clear that everyone should be very concerned about doing the same.

  77. Mitsuyasi Tiger says:

    50 Darius Lehane Says:

    December 5th, 2007 at 6:41 PM PST
    I tried it. It was painless and quick, and the information required is not enough to use for identity theft — no real downsides, and it seems like a good idea.

    Tool, Anyone?

    anyhow, Yeah, I’m not doing this ^.^ it’s lame. I spend hundreds of dollars a month here consistently OMGS I MUST BE 14 STEALINGS TEH INTERWEBS. But meh, whatever, it’s coming – just like all the nerf enducing grid gimping ‘upgrades’ in the works :p

    /steps off of soapbox

  78. Rad Nolder says:

    Well, I like the idea of age verification and used the verify link but it failed 3 times using various ID’s but I found the problem. I only used the first 5 digits of my zip code (USA) instead of all 9 with the dash and it verified me, finally, using the last 4 SSN method. I think this is a good step for SL and simple enough. I am more worried about giving out credit card info than what is asked on the verify page!

  79. Darien Caldwell says:

    One Question I keep getting asked is, is any information about the Avatar sent to Integrity? Should they go and leak all that precious private data, will anyone be able to link that data with a specific Avatar in SL? I think it should be simple to answer this one. Do you send Integrity the name of the Avatar along with the RL info, or just the RL info?

  80. Q Linden says:

    @75: I actually waited until it went live so I could try the real system…but yes, I have age-verified myself through the official channels. I know of several other Lindens who’ve also done it.

  81. mimi says:

    How do we know the age verification is trustworthy? I heard many times say: ‘we don’t keep your data’ but youve never said ‘aristotle doesn’t keep the data, right?

    QLinden, please answer this question, because it really bothers us. Did aristotle sign a legally binding contract in which they promise not to keep our data and not to use it? Can they be sued if all of a sudden the information do leaks out? Will you sue them if it does? How do we know we are safe when we verify? Can you please help us?

    Please please please answer this question because it bothers a lot of people!

  82. Eldresh Saenz says:

    Now, I normally don’t post on the blog, but LL, you ARE aware that the information you are requiring breaks law right? -Right?-

  83. Cooper Janus says:

    qLinden: You say that YOU (Linden Labs) are not keeping any of the information we give you about our verification. Here is a direct, simple to understand question. Will the 3rd party doing the verification be keeping ANY of our data? They have verified me for BudTV.com without having to have any of my TAX ID information. Why do they require it now? Are they going to sell my data? Or is this setting us up for taxing and lawsuits brought about by RL companies? (So they know what RL person to go after?)

    I’m ready to leave Second Life if I’m going to be forced to give up private information that can be used to steal my identity.

  84. Analisa Mounier says:

    I live on an island in the Caribbean. I have had “Payment Info Used” since 2004. My Credit Card is charged every month for over USD100 over my various alts YET the system shows my AGE (it really seems like IDENTITY) VERIFICATION as FAILED with both my ID card and Driver’s Permit. I stopped just short of using my Passport because the system obviously does not work (at least not for non-US citizens).
    I will not bother to attempt verifying again NOR will I be sending scanned copies of my documents.
    And by all means, continue to charge the card of an ‘unverified’ resident.

  85. Max Duesenburg says:

    Hmmmm, to reiterate from prevous threads….

    From the FAQ

    Age verification is a new feature that is now available in a beta release. It’s a means of verifying that you are an adult in real life by matching information you provide against public records.

    Exact documents may vary depending on your country of residence, but may include:

    Passport
    Driver’s license
    National ID number
    Social security number

    In the vast majority of countires the above information is NOT a matter of public record. Aristotle/Integrity do NOT have this data. Therefore it CANNOT be used to verify anything and you should NOT provide these details.

    Note also that since your information is ONLY checked against the public record it is completely useless in verifying identity. This is purely an information gathering and PR exercise which has nothing to do with any serious attempt to introduce age verification.

    Max Duesenburg

  86. Coon Surya says:

    Ok Lindon Labs…

    But if what the others say about your implimentation being illegal is true…and if your third party steals our identity…

    You will be taken to the task.

  87. U M says:

    “And by all means, continue to charge the card of an ‘unverified’ resident.”

    Good Point even with credit card online people are still looked at with no payment infor online? Frankly speaking what is the sence of this to start with?age checking should have started then when No Payment Online was introduced awhile back.

  88. Orson Dahlgren says:

    When click in the FAQ to verify, I get warned that the security certificate is for the wrong domain.

    I know it’s just missing the www, but for something like this, it really has to work right, no “workarounds” or “just accept the certificate and ignore the warning.”

    This is even more critical than taking my credit card number. This is identifying information.

  89. Q Linden says:

    @80, 82, and others:

    I’m sorry — I can’t personally answer this question because I simply don’t know the answer. I’m a software engineer and I don’t know about that part of the system. Since I don’t know what our agreements are, it’s not appropriate for me to comment further.

  90. Soleil says:

    YAY!

    I CAN’T WAIT FOR THE TEEN GRID AND THE MAIN GRID TO BE MERGED NEXT MONTH! WOOOO TEENS EVERYWHERE!

  91. Vanessa Sakai says:

    Could you tell me why that everyone I know who has succesfully verified, that it show not verified on their profile?

  92. Vanessa Sakai says:

    It seems that the verification info is not getting to the viewer.

  93. Vannesh says:

    Didn’t I read a while back, though, that the idea with this verification was not just to age verify, but to also put RL name and area as well if the user agreed? Has this been revoked, qlinden?

    It’s one thing to have a “yes/no” age verifed stamp, another to think that some wacko here in SL could get my rl name and area that I live. With just $30 out of pocket cost, I can use that limited info to find out a person’s address and phone number. I don’t need a wacko coming to pay me a visit.

    BTW, folks, for those of you that are scared of giving out info, the third party system that LL will use *already has all your info*. What this will do is crosstab what you give as your rl info to what they already know.

    On the other hand, though, why in the world should I care if some kid gets into SL and sees “adult material?” The parents are obviously not doing their job, and what kind of lawsuit could arise from this? “I didn’t bother watching my kid, he stole my credit card and DL number and got into SL and saw porn! Oh woe is me! It’s LL’s fault!”

    Riiiggghhhtttt…….

  94. HealthStar says:

    I am curious, the people in US that are failing verification, are you registered to vote? Just wondering if there is a connection as to if that is how they have built their database, off voter regs primarily. Either way it seems MANY MANY people are failing the check, looks like the database is not nearly as complete as LL may have been told it was. No way I restrict access to my parcel when so many people are failing the check wiith legitimate info.

  95. confused says:

    Q Linden Says:
    December 5th, 2007 at 8:16 PM PST
    @80, 82, and others:
    I’m sorry — I can’t personally answer this question because I simply don’t know the answer. I’m a software engineer and I don’t know about that part of the system. Since I don’t know what our agreements are, it’s not appropriate for me to comment further

    So what are doing in this blog? When all the real questions are of a non-technical nature.

  96. Pinto Schnyder says:

    I’m gonna say what a few early on said an stop with the features an work on the stability of the system currently getting it as smooth as possible then go ahead an add your extra goodies an i’m 19 but I don’t trust anything online with my private info yes I use my credit card an checking but thats stuff that my bank can easily protect me from fraud but with a SSN+PhotoID=YOU GONNA GET SO SCREWED WITH IDENTITY THEFT! I have nothing against Age verification but there are other places the resources to making the system for this good be redirected on making SL less laggy an more stable

  97. Ceera Murakami says:

    Several JIRA’s submitted:

    VWR-3674 – Age Verification unusable at the Parcel level if access is controlled by “Buy Pass”.

    VWR-3673 – Age Verification unusable at the Parcel level if access is controlled by a land group

    VWR-3671 – Age verification unusable at the Estate level if the sim is to be “off the map”.

    VWR-3667 – About Land > Access: On group owned land, group owner gets eject message when “Public Access” is unchecked.

    VWR-3665 – Identity verified at website, but not showing as verified in Profile more than 2 hours later – also field is too small in profile.

  98. Asriazh Frye says:

    Age verification isn’t about verifying your age. LL don’t even care if you use it or not, as long as it’s there. The only thing it does is to cover up their behinds if something goes wrong.
    Oh yeah, and that 3rd party company might be able to make some money with the data they collect.

    -Asriazh

  99. Brett Finsbury says:

    seems like a big nightmare. whats flagged whats not. lets either make everyone do it or no one do it. Unless you have something to hide why not?

  100. Keiko Rau says:

    @32 qlinden

    “I can assure you that all we keep in the Linden databases is the simple flag “Y” or “N” based on whether you’ve been verified by our third party provider. That’s it. There’s nothing to leak.”

    Third party provider… uhuh… No leak… uhuh.

    Can you guarantee us that Integrity will NOT keep our data?

    Can you guarantee us that their parent, Aristotle will NOT use it in the lists that they are in the business of selling?

    You say Linden Lab will not keep our data, but you dont tell the whole story. That is why we cannot trust what you say in relation to our personal information.

  101. Pingback: The Grid Live » Second Life News for December 6, 2007

  102. Kasolai Nighbor says:

    My age verification failed with my current information.

    I then put in an address I was at back in 2003, and it passed.

    The verify must be using a database thats several years out of date, so if you can’t verify and have moved in the last few years, try using an older address.

  103. spamnomen says:

    Hm, let me see now. I don’t drive, therefore I have no driver’s licence. I don’t travel, therefore I have no passport. Those are my only two verification options here in the UK. So that means large amounts of SL will now be off-limits to me, despite my being a 39-year-old consenting adult?

    Even if I could provide either of those two items of identification, why do you think I would want to? Support tickets have previously asked me for either those, or other extremely personal data, such as my birth certificate, or a utility bill showing my full name and address, and I have refused at all times. If the UK Government can manage to lose the personal data (including bank account details) of 25 million people, why in hell should I trust Linden Labs with that same data? For God’s sake, I’m wary of even giving out credit card information online, let alone things such as this, which would be an identity fraudster’s dream.

    By the by, *everyone* here in the UK is required to have a passport if they travel abroad, from birth onwards. Does the age verification actually check if the passport holder is over the age of 18 (the legal age of consent here in the UK) or does it simply check that the passport itself is valid for use?

  104. Calanus Shepherd says:

    When will age verification work for German users?

  105. Squee Janitor says:

    It’d be nice if those KB articles were available without actually logging in, maybe in a second area. A lot of people such as myself try to check a place like SL out before we start plugging in personal information to establish an account, and the age verification is going to create a potential barrier for new residents. If they’re all hip on joining then find out that they can only find out about the verification requirements /after/ creating an account, that’s going to turn a lot of people off. I’d suggest having it more easily accessible to non-residents on the website. Make it transparent, and most people will go ‘oh, okay,’ where otherwise they’d be saying ‘waaaitaminnit…’

  106. mimi says:

    Qlinden I apprecatie your honesty abot not knowing. I wonder do you know a Linden that knows the answer? Can you ask him to help us please?
    Many of us would like to know if the verification is safe or not..
    We have asked many times if an official statement about the third party can be made.. can you please help us to find a linden that does can give an answer?

  107. Erishkagal Serevi says:

    I agree with #1. I suspect there will be new posts by Lindens to bury the age verification, or some horrible new viewer coming out in 2 days to cause even more complaints. I have only been a user for a little over a month and there have been 6 new viewers already, between the main and windlight. I am a premium user and used paypal to pay. No one will get m credit card, and I know of several people that have been double billed by Lindens for L$ and accounts. I do not show payment info on file because I never used my credit card. Does this mean I have no L$? No, I have plenty to spend, so land owners will ban me for no reason! yay!
    What the hell is wrong with this site?
    Bootleg viewer version anyone? IM me in world

  108. Ivantwin Rogers says:

    I play since 2003 and that is simple , I am a Adult and i dont think give my sensive information to anybody! external company aritostole with a bad reputation, if i cant enter to adult areas with a flag this problems is to easy solve , i want sell my sim and i dont want buy anymore items i cancel my account and i leave from second life, my avatar RIP DIE 2003-2007 and the problem done!! AND MY RESPECT TO LINDEN LABS for 5 years fun!!!
    (Not everything in life is good forever)

  109. Yuo Rang says:

    I’m in the UK, how does LL intend to process me?

    All i see is 2 forms of ID, an SSN (which we dont have, we have an NI) and a drivers licence.

    Well I have both, however what I want to know is do Linden Lab have access to either my insurance records OR my driving details here in the UK? And if so, HOW!

  110. Ivantwin Rogers says:

    AGE VERIFICATION is WELCOME TO DISNEYLANDIA! poor shops! and busisness mans!

  111. Echo Kendal says:

    I’m all for keeping underaged kids off the mature grid, but this is ridiculous. I don’t drive, I don’t own a passport and honestly all I have is my SSN. And what’s this about the company in charge of this being a known data mining company?

    Why are we being punished because your immature users can’t keep off the mature grid. I can assure you I’m 25 and seriously annoyed at this. I’ve been on SL for more then a year now.

  112. Anony Mouse says:

    Lindens,

    You haven’t stepped into the deep end. The issue here is that the residents are consistently being ignored and misled by Linden Lab.

    Many residents feel misled because when Robin Linden posted about IDV (NOT Age verification as it now seems to be called) being a way to help people build trust. This is really something of an insult, since trust is something that is built between people without the need for third party verification. Additionally she said that it was going to allow people to share “verified aspects of their personality.” I can only speak for myself and say that I don’t think it’s necessary for LL to verify my identity so that others can see it. If I want to reveal things about myself.. I will, in my own way and in my own time. I don’t want a third party company in the mix. Now, however, LL seems to have gone back to calling IDV as “Age Verification.” While I’m glad IDV is, apparently, gone and Age Verification is back, it raises suspicion among the residents about what you’re really up to and whether we can trust you going forward. You talk about trusting the residents, but the real question is… can we trust you?

    You’ve also consistently ignored resident outcries against IDV/Age Verification and other features that have been simply slammed into SL against the wishes of most residents.

    While to LL SL is a “platform” to many of us it is an important part of our lives. What you do affects us and sometimes hurts us. I urge LL to take care and think about the sociological impacts of implementing the “next neat new feature” before simply slamming it.

    While this attitude might prompt people to call me a luddite, I’m not. All I’m saying is.. when you create a new feature… keep the residents needs in mind and provide them a way to use that feature while retaining their anonymity. With this attitude you both don’t deny people a shiny new feature… and you are sensitive to the needs of all residents.

    Sincerely yours,
    Anony Mouse
    “No one can make you feel inferior unless you let them.” – Eleanor Roosevelt.

  113. Ivantwin Rogers says:

    we are guilty for kids in adult grid 😦

  114. Ric Mollor says:

    In addition to the concerns of identity theft, SL users should be also concerned with the amount of logging and data collection that can be done by Linden Labs and other parties. Second Life is far from the the ‘your world’ concept that it is portrayed as. In reality it is the epitome of an Orwellian society where the users every action, movement, and conversation can be monitored, recorded and stored for eternity.

    Seeing that quite a few ‘residents’ engage in activities that they possibly would prefer to keep private this becomes a serious issue. It also appears that this ‘age verification’ may allow traceability of avatar names back to real life user identities. Though this could previously be done by IP address logging, identity verification will provide a stronger link between SL and RL.

    It would be wise for ALL users to very seriously consider the possiblity that EVERYTHING they do in SL is being logged by one or more entities and act accordingly.

    Remember, ALL your actions, ALL your conversations, and ALL your transactions pass through THEIR servers. Don’t EVER do anything you wouldn’t like EVERYONE to know about.

  115. Erishkagal Serevi says:

    Hey , at least Q has the stones to be the sole Linden in here answering questions.

  116. Yuo Rang says:

    Wow, now ive actually read the comments as well im appauled (well it was at 108 already, another stupid system but i digress).

    It appears you’ve outsourced verification to a division of a known data mining company. Did anyone actually research the provider or did they give you such a good deal you couldn’t refuse?

    Or both?

    What about everyone thats failing checks right now? Is that data being kept too? We users seem to think we have a right to know whats being done with our data, are you saying otherwise Q? Shrugging it off with an ‘i dont know’ is not acceptable, sorry. Please find out asap.

    I mean there was going to be an outcry anyway even if you LL yourself controlled the verification but why do you have to handle it in the worse manner possible with this company?

    Outworld its like a nightmare gone wrong lately, lately you only ever appear to be looking after us residents when it comes to adding new features to your world.

    If you want to make credit card verification more useful stamp “Over 18 Services” on the damn bill, thatll wake any parents up that have been duped.

  117. Amaterasu says:

    I am in Australia. Here the only means of verification are Drivers Licence……I do not drive because of disability.
    Or Passport……never been outside Australia, so why would I have one of them?
    And personally, even if I did have either of those documents, I am not about to hand them over to some company in the US.

    So I assume that after almost 3 years in SL, I am now going to be restricted in my movements? Does this include shopping for skins..or do I now have to have a PG rated skin?

  118. Jamie David says:

    Ah Christmass has come early for Aristotle. Just on the heals of the British government loosing all that data on their citizens.

    1) Aristotle can not verify the worlds population. They do no have the raw data save for the Russian Drivers License numbers. When tested here on LindenLabs system pretty much any data can get you through the system. Donald Duck as a name should work and make up the rest. One person claimed that you could leave the SS, ID numbers blank and it will let you in.

    It will be interesting to see how the Countries who have serious privacy laws feel about a US company claiming to have all their citizens personal information and asking those countries citizens to hand over information that is prohibited by those countries laws.

    2) The kids who are most at risk will more than likely bypass the system. Those were the words of the US Attorney Generals. They also state that the number 1 rule with the internet is DO NOT GIVE OUT PERSONAL INFORMATION. US Attorney Generals came out against Aristotle yet LL goes forward. This system is nothing about protecting kids it is about getting data for the US general election to SELL Aristotle’s main business.

    Identity theft is on the rise and the ammount of personal data that is loose on the internet is on the rise too. Think carefully do you want to go through the trauma or someone destroying your life by destroying your credit. Currently the nasty people are targeting US forces who are in Iraq and Afganistan and not about to realize that someone is destroying their good name and credit.

    BEFORE YOU VERIFY. Go look at http://www.aristotle.com and see who is looking after your personal information. See also see http://agelock.com an alternative.

    Realize that Aristotle will give insurance to LindenLabs for any litigation involving kids and their entry into SL. That insurance does not cover the residents and content creators inside SL just LindenLab.

    The number one issue is to protect kids. Pure and simple. This system does not. Kids can simply go to the US Social Security website and use the data provided there on deceased people. Get grandma’s Drivers License or a friends. As no one is supposedly retaining this data so there is no way to verify this later.

    Aristotle’s plan is to force MySpace and other social websites into using their system by showing how it works for SL. The US State Attorneys are against it as am I. This is but a wonderful data mining opportunity for Aristotle. Christmas came early.

    I want kids protected. I also want a responsible company that has a commitment to protecting kids not making money selling the data. Why is there not one parent group supporting this? Why is there not one group out there saying this is the way to go. Not ONE. All I can find googling the net are stories on how bad the system is and how aggressive Aristotle is about mining data to sell and how they will sell to anyone.

    2 months ago Robin Linden promised that thre wold be more discussion about Age Verification yet there was nothing. Till now and here it is.

    What assurances do we the users have that Aristotle will not loose disks with our data on it like the British government just did with half of their population? What assurances do we have that Aristotle will not augment their US voter information that they are willing to sell to anyone with a credit card with the data received from the SL user. No they don’t need your address and numbers, they supposedly already have that. They just would like to know that you are alive and using the internet, over 18 and accessing adult material.

    Robin failed us with empty promises.
    LL is failing us by selling us to a data mining company.

  119. Anony Mouse says:

    @113 Ric

    “Remember, ALL your actions, ALL your conversations, and ALL your transactions pass through THEIR servers. Don’t EVER do anything you wouldn’t like EVERYONE to know about.”

    This is the greatest argument for the decentralization of SL that I have yet seen. Thanks. 🙂

    Anony Mouse

  120. U M says:

    In one way its good to have age checking. But look at all these upset people some that have paid 1000.00 of real monies. beta people made this game what it is today. This is the sad part of age checking those taht are over 18 and have payment online. But frankly speaking LL is killing the game. For what? Well many say its a sellout to the largest brand companys coming into to sl. There is two group on SL 1.) those taht have been in the game for years and are now working one way or another for SL ( including those that are kissing the butts of llabs ) thinking this game will lead them to a richer and more better economic payoff down the road. But Even those that are in this group are getting the cold shoulder from LL at times. Because they themseves are nolonger needed. 2.) Are those that frankly speaking are near the end of their second life because crappy new rules being applied to them. Many years on sl now and look at this mess! could this been avoided? Could it have been we been warned or those that between quicked to spend 100.00 or real monies and time played 1000`s of hours and hours? Now LL pulls the rabbit out og the hat trick and expects all of us to take this banana in our mouths and say “swallow “.

  121. SL Player™ says:

    How about a yahoo or MSN cam to cam. I’ll pull out my wallet and hold up my drivers license and SS# for ya and even show you my avatar in world. But that’s all I’m showing ya LOL

  122. Neural says:

    Q. Your action is commendable, but I want to see the leaders at Linden Lab do it. Prove to the users that they have the same faith in this new system that some of their employees do.
    I will admit that it is a difficult thing to do in that just posting and saying “I did it” is not something that can be taken as proof by the users. However there must be a way to do so with partial confidence.
    You (Linden Lab in general) come to the users in a time when trust and confidence is not all that common, and want us to go beyond what we’ve already done with credit cards and addresses, and provide even *more* personal real life information to ANOTHER company that Linden Lab has chosen. It should be pretty obvious as to why some people would be suspicious about it if Linden Lab touts the system as “secure” but the executives that decide where SL goes won’t use the very system they are pushing as safe.

  123. Tegg B says:

    33 Nebadon Izumi Says: “Well i have tried every conceivable method of verification and it fails.. good work this should be a real hit for Linden Labs, i suppose everyone will have to manually verify then?? lol this is an absurd waste of time thats only going to end in failure for everyone.”

    Well I guess seeing all age verification is useless we should just remove all verification across the internet, and never bother trying to restrict minors access again………………….

    I heard most car lock systems have also been defeated at some point, this provides a good arguement for not bothering to waste consumers money by fitting ignition keys and car door locks to vehicles. All car locks are useless.

  124. mimi says:

    omg there are so many people with the same questions.. I hope we will get an answer…. *waiting*

    I guess if Linden Labs can’t even promise and prove our data WONT be resold we can be sure they WILL resell it.

    Why are they avoiding to answer this question? What is so difficult about finding a linden that does can answer a simple question about the contract with Aristotele/Integrity?

  125. Argent Stonecutter says:

    “you’re correct. The presumption is that Age Verification is for public access parcels — if you’re allowing someone on your parcel by name, then you “know” them.”

    Q: That might be fine for “allow by name” but NOT for “allow by group”.

    Non Serviam.

  126. C E says:

    I have only read the comments and have not actually checked this feature out. However, I have seen in here that you have to fill out the SS#. Why? Growing up we are advised to memorize our number but to keep the card in a safe place. Never fill out a form asking for a SS# unless you know exactly what it is for. All it takes is for that number to get in the wrong hands and you are..well screwed. Trust me, I know.

    The other thing i see wrong with this. A linden stated that they don’t keep our data, they only mark our accounts with a Y or a N. However, that data is processed by a third party. Why?

    I don’t know about you..but I know, first hand, that sometimes when a site says they don’t keep your data.. they do. I, in fact, work for such a company.

    This is a risky business and I highly recommend not doing this. Many people are right in the fact that there is an option to disallow members without payment info on file. This is one of the best ways to go about things. Why? Because in order to put your payment info on file you have to be old enough to have a credit card…which is what age again?

    Seriously, Linden Labs.. this is not a good move..You should listen to the vast majority of your members.

  127. Okey, This is my first post.
    I am resident in SL for about 20 months and everyday LLABS finds a way to push me away from it. I Spend inworld about 10-12 hours every day(and i am sure many ppl do that) to make this game a “game”. But i do know we are the “Experimental” to help LLABS complete theyr game. When the game is completed then we will be replaced by the big companies and slowly the secondlife will change the way it looks. Sorry folks we will be here so far the Secondlife is unstable, if this finaly one day starts work perfect then we are off. oh, and about the Age ver…. Wellcome to a world of fridom and the only limitation of imagination. Sorry if i sound like rude or something, but i feel bad when i feel used.

  128. Xi Taurog says:

    Please pay close attention to the comments in #84. I find it very troubling that this company, which has a record of reselling the data it collects, even has access to this personal information about people that it can use to verify our identities. I will not be verifying my account with this shady company until something that is truly a public record can be used. There are any number of documents that can be used. For example, I own property in my state and the records of my purchase and my property tax records are public information freely available online. I would be happy to provide this information to verify my account.

  129. MrLunk Voom says:

    Advicing all to switch off adult … because i see problems coming… and situations where i wont be able to enter MY OWN OWNED Adult Area !!!

  130. U M says:

    oh are tehy suppose to do this kind of checking for those that are not in the western world?

  131. Renee Faulds says:

    I love it – use my current information in fails !!

    Use an expired drivers license from a place I lived 10 years ago it PASSED.

    Simply amazing……

    Get your free “FIX SL” truck at SLExchange

  132. C E says:

    #84 and #117 make a very good point. I would recommend to other people to read those guys’ comments if you haven’t already.

    Also I would like to make a note that I meant to say I had worked for a company that kept information that should not have been kept on their databases. I no longer work for that particular company.

  133. HealthStar says:

    Wouldnt it be nice if LL would just come out and tell the truth for once,
    Just say: look we are doing this to cover ourselves so when someone tries to sue us because their kid saw a pixelboobie we can point at the landowner who was host tot he pixelboobie in question and say, sue them, we gave them the tools they chose not to use them. We don’t expect this to be perfect or even very functional, if we did we would have put more time into it and gotten a solid company to do the checks, and made sure everyone could get verified. As long as many people can not or will not get verified then the grid really wont change much, people wont bother with doing it or marking their land for it, this goes away and is a forgotten “feature” untill we need to bring it up to COA against litigation. Then of course that ball is in the landowners court.

    Just go ahead and say that. Then we will know what’s up and we can decide to go ahead and let this blow over and not get so worked up about it. The smalltime landowner likely wont be pursed legally because there is really nothing to get from them in a suit, and even if they were persued they can point at the horrible non-funtionality of the verification method and say – hey look I would’ve used it, but it is broken and always has been, people with legit info can not get verified, people would have to break their countries laws to get verified, the company being used sells personal information, etc. I can not be expected to require my customers to submit themselves to that and I would be cutting off a mojority of my business and livlihood if I did. The brokeness and unusability of this system has been pointed out to LL time and time again and they have no moved to fix or address the concerns, if they had come up with something that worked i would have used it. But obviously they never intended this to be used, go talk to them not me. And with that we throw the ball right back into LL’s court.

    Tried to get this in before cap, I typed fast and didnt Proofread, excuse the grammical errors i am sure are there.

  134. Ivantwin Rogers says:

    The only logical i see in that horrible age verification rule is maybe the US Federal goverment from Unisted Satates want close second life if Philip linden dont make that for a kids playing in mature contents, maybe the goverment make a some presion to linden labs in honor to save the kids, under penalty or jail or closing all servers.

  135. Phantomshadow says:

    Well when it’s all said and done. let LL market their age verification, already in the past weeks we have seen notice about a hack comming from the video stream. or how about that time all of sl had to be taken offline and everyones pass codes reset. LL is becoming a lumbering giant feeding off it’s own power. and for those of you against Free people in sl. they produce more revenue because to do anything they have to work. to have a place to stay they have to rent. they fill up the world and those who actually produce the items and products in sl thrive and grow and put more money into sl to make it more profitable for them. being arrogent will cause people to flee this place like rats from a sinking ship. so if thats the goal. go for it. another will spring up to take it’s place in the aftermath

  136. Leila Larkham says:

    I’m so tired of this non paying sl users are freeloaders crap. Listen I dont have an account payed on here because when I did try to the Lindens ran my damn card through so many times the CC company thought it stolen and froze my account. Am I supposed to trust them now with it? I think not. For your information I work in SL providing a service for a paying user I then spend every nickle earned in SL and that money goes to other paying SL users such as shop keepers and renters. I will never trust the Lindens with any type of personal financial info or identity so if thats the end of the road for us “freeloaders” watch how much your sales go down and how many renters you lose from your land once we all leave the game on account of age verification. (and btw nothing is going to stop a teenager from using mommy or daddys ID on here, where theres a will theres a way)

  137. U M says:

    @133 unless LL was found out for kiddy porn or other such actions occuring.

  138. Sling Trebuchet says:

    At the risk of appearing to be just a teensy-weensy bit negative, there are “issues” with the Age Verification that I just tried.

    None of the information requested is on public record. There is no way that Aristotle/Integrity can check any of it.
    Aristotle/Integrity *might* be able to check Name and Partial address for people registered to vote in Ireland, but only for those voters who have not opted out of their data being released/used for non-election purposes.
    In any case, the voter lists here are notoriously inaccurate.

    NONE of the ID categories are on public record.

    Aristotle/Integrity *know* this. A table on their website indicated that for Ireland and many other countries, name, DOB and partial address are all that they require for ‘verification’.

    Why are they looking for an email address? This can not be used to verify identity. Any links between email address and identity are not a matter of public record.
    Why are they looking for national ID information that they can not legally obtain?

    This is not verification.
    This is data gathering.

    Why submit any data to Aristotle/Integrity if they can not legally/possibly have data against which to match it.?

  139. Pepper Haas says:

    There is a law in Holland which prohibits citizens from providing exactly the information LL needs for age verification, online. So unless they have a credit card, many Dutch citizens can’t verify even if they want to.
    Anyway I just heard Google is building a Second Life alternate. After having Group IM borked to put voice in, textures and avi going to be borked thanks to Windlight, complete and utter failure to fix basic bugs before introducing yet more crashy “improvements” I think there will be a real Exodus.

  140. ROFL.. I just tried an address i lived at 9 years ago, 3000 miles from where i live now, and 4 moves later, and it finally Verified my age, this is the most ridiculous process ever, i gotta use an address i havent lived at in 9 years????? CMON what a joke..

  141. Zeke Bailly says:

    If Linden Labs is so concerned about this policy, why is QLinden, who is obviously not the right individual to be commenting on these matters- the only linden talking?

    Now we can be simultaneously insulted by the lack of disclosure from “The Lindens in charge of policy” on any independent assurances of how our information is stored/transmitted or verified by Integrity. -And we can applaud Q. for exposing just how much our opinions really don’t matter.

    For those who attempt to verify and fail, actually you should probably be breathing easy, as your personal data has not conclusively been sold/acquired/or freely outsourced by your respective governments to the giant accident that is waiting to happen that is the COSMOS Aristotle database. Yeah, all your data, is already out there in the possession of a big private company, and is being fed by state and national governments and financial institutions. The only thing that SL’s verification is doing is asking if “so and so is in the COSMOS database and are they over 18?” Integrity polls the Cosmos database with your name and ID and returns a simple Yes/No flag. Linden Labs dosen’t really see anything. Maybe COSMOS/Aristotle keeps data that they verified you for SL, maybe they don’t. They’re aren’t disclosing that. Lovely.

  142. karl herber says:

    I am in the UK and I want to verify my age (I’m 41). The only options given for me are drivers licence and passport. I own neither. How may I verify? Can I mail you a photocopy of my birth certificate? What do I do?

  143. Rascal Ratelle says:

    The Following has NOT been addressed:

    What is the garuntee that this third party will
    respect the privacy laws and NOT store he info unless
    requested?

    Is LL Monitoring this third party? Why should we
    entrust our privet info to a third party we know
    nothing about?

    What about security? how securer is this third party?
    Who do we hold accountable if a security breach occurs
    at the third party?

    What about third party credentials?

    I believe we have the Legal right to view those too.

    What garuntees do we have against Identity theft?

    I refuse to submit any of my privet info to The third
    party until you guys address ALL my concerns and
    questions regarding this issue.
    I do NOT feel safe nor secure releasing my privet info
    to a third party I know nothing about.

    How are we to submit our privet info? by photocopy? By
    Scanning into our computers and then E-mailing it?
    How much do free accounts have to pay? what about
    those of us unable to get a credit card for what ever
    reasons or can’t access pay-pal?

    Also it’s illegal for an online virtual world to
    require a users social security number for any reason.

    THere’s not a single piece of ID on that list that I feel I can trust SL with.

  144. zebadee says:

    hahahaha you cant even make a stable client, like **** am i verifying.

  145. Leeloo Nykvist says:

    This could actually work. You just need to reverse the test. “What?” you might say… Listen to this. Here we have a well known collector and seller of personal information, with a database full of all the information needed for identity theft. A company that doesn’t care about laws, but requires you to enter data that you can’t legally give them (in some countries). Who would give them their personal info? Noone with an ounce of common sense. Noone who knows the word “responsibility”. In short: Only those who aren’t old enough to be trusted with any official document. Unfortunately, they will still get hold of their parents drivers license. My solution: If you have a mature sim, deny access to those who have verified. They are clearly not old enough to enter.

    And to those who asked i LL has an agreement preventing said 3rd party from keeping/selling your info: Even if they do, what prevents that agreement from being broken? The law? Look above, this is a company that has already been shown to be willing to break the law. LL suing them? How is that going to happen? LL won’t know. Your information will be out there, but noone can prove that the data came from you SL verification and not through another company that used the same 3rd party.

  146. Yina Yao says:

    Hmm…fun, that ‘age verification’ thing…and how it utterly fails to work.
    I’m from Germany, and I just tried to verify with my driver license NR
    and my personal id nr, and both failed multiple times. My suspection:
    My address got umlauts in it, that’s letters not commonly used in the
    US but very common here in Germany. Yanno…. ä, ö, and ü. They can
    be substituted for as ‘ae’, ‘oe’ and ‘ue’. Unfortunately the substitutions
    are not getting recognized, and the original ä, ö and ü get mangled by
    the webbrowser during transfer or are not properly contained in that verification check dbase or whatever. In any case IT SIMPLY DOES
    NOT WORK.

    So… thanks for a job well done, LL.
    NOT!

    Hmpf.
    -Yina

  147. Milo Bellow says:

    Since The British Tax Morons Lost Copies Of Millions Of Peoples Personal Details Recently, Should I Really Be So Concerned When A Consistently Duplicitous Bunch Of Software Geeks Sell My ID To An Obviously Phishing Cowboy Company?

    Meh…

  148. notagambler says:

    #145, try again in a few hours or days, now they have your data :))

    You gave it to them :))

  149. Flowedew Zagoskin says:

    I for one welcome the age verification. To answer some of the points raised.

    1. Not everyone on this site is 18 or over, people lie but if you have age verification and have to produce evidence of your age then so be it. The only ones that should be worried are the ones who are not 18 or over. And before you go on about the rights of people, in rl you have to prove your age in certain places or opening bank accounts etc, so why not here when there is mature content.

    2. The person who said make everyone pay is right. Even if people paid just a small amount it would help linden lab make SL better.

    3. All the people that go on about how bad SL should remember the vast amount of server power and all the people that work to make SL a great place for us to be in. OK it dont work perfect all the time, but I can remember a few years back when this sort of site wasnt available. So stop moaning and give SL your support otherwise linden labs might say sod it and pack up and then what would you do.

    I think SL is great and the features like windlight etc are stunning and cant wait for other features. So lets all give linden our support folks otherwise we might lose the whole lot. Think about it.

  150. Ivantwin Rogers says:

    Here is something unusual, maybe linden labs was sold to aristotle per pair of millions or aristotele are sold to labs linden for some millions that is imposible some company make a ilogical and bad rule and go to banckrupt

  151. Xi Taurog says:

    @148 – “in rl you have to prove your age in certain places or opening bank accounts etc, so why not here when there is mature content.”

    Um, because there’s a big difference between flashing my drivers license briefly to a cashier or bank teller, and providing personal ID numbers to a known data miner in electronic format that they can use in countless ways?

    Stop being a sheep.

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