Havok4 Beta Preview will be Down Today for Update (updated –> Now Open)

We just merged a bunch of changes from the main development branch into the Havok4 project to bring it up to date with Second Life 1.18.6, and this requires that we close the preview for a few hours of maintenance and testing. The exact schedule for closing and opening the preview is not known, but we expect it to be available again before the end of today. When it is back up there should be few, if any, notable changes from its current state.

This update coincides with small internal milestone for the project. Until now all Havok4 development has been done in one branch of code, in parallel to the main version of Second Life’s servers, but the strategy that Linden Lab uses to coordinate the multiple parallel projects has changed its details since Havok4 started. We’ve now transitioned over to using the new strategy as we prepare to get the project ready for committing back into the main codebase.

We haven’t fixed all of the bugs in Havok4 yet — I think we still have several more weeks of work to go — but it is getting closer and we may soon be ready to deploy some experimental Havok4 simulators to Second Life (i.e. non-preview simulators).

I will update this blog post when the preview update is complete.

UPDATE: The Havok4 beta preview deploy is done but we haven’t had enough time to test AND we’ve found some bugs that we’d rather fix first before we open it again. I’m going to try to fix the new bugs tomorrow. Sorry for the delay.

UPDATE – 2007.12.04 : I fixed the bug (bad dynamics arguments on creation of the avatar’s collision body) then updated and opened the Havok4 beta preview. As I mentioned in a comment below, we’ve fixed almost all of the known simulator crash modes in this preview update. I’d be interested in finding out if anyone can crash one in a new way. Also, the updated installer is optional rather than mandatory as I promised in a comment below.

About Andrew Linden

Developer at Linden Lab.
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56 Responses to Havok4 Beta Preview will be Down Today for Update (updated –> Now Open)

  1. Atashi Toshihiko says:

    Sounds great Andrew! Glad to hear of the continued progress. Will we need to download a new beta viewer after this update?

  2. WarKirby says:

    Andrew. Can you please update the beta grid inventories too? I have somtething that needs urgent testing, and I can’t get it onto the beta grid.

  3. Psistorm Ikura says:

    thats some cool news there, and am I right in that will be the first time HetGrid is used properly?
    Im looking forward to trying it out, and will most likely visit one of the experimental simulators when they are out!

  4. Borky Grid says:

    account balance loading, map down, search down…Same old story

  5. AE Lewis says:

    Anyone have the time its going down/will be up again? Thanks 😀

  6. Damn it, Don’t do something like that on a Monday !!!
    Then a lot of land transactions take place, but not if
    Search, tp, and maps are down. This kills the business !

  7. mayaaaabeeee says:

    yes i agree, doing this on a Monday its terrible.. i have to pay my rent really quickly and i can’t.. does anyone knows when everything is up again?

  8. Patrick2 Chama says:

    You pay your rent on the Beta Grid?

  9. hey check this out … money is loading profiles arnt working and ya a bunch of other crap is going down! * is this effecting the main grid? *

  10. Andrew Linden says:

    Note, this post refers to the Havok4 beta preview, NOT the Second Life world that most people use. Havok4 is an upgrade to the physics engine of the Second Life simulator — is not quite ready for prime-time, but the early versions are available for testing. For more about what “preview” means please visit this page: http://secondlife.com/community/preview.php

    Yes, I believe you will need to update the beta viewer after this update. The old beta viewer is still on version 1.18.3.5.

    We will not be updating the beta preview inventories — that requires a full day of downtime.

  11. Angelica Seaton says:

    in answer to #9

    Apparently so, no TPs working 😦

    Ho hum! Bang goes another chance of completing my business premises.

  12. Oceanna Shannon says:

    I thought it was me. I wondered how people needed to pay rent on the beta grid.

    OS

  13. Wicked says:

    LOL has anyone noticed that our 1st lives never run smoothly and neither does our second Too Funny. We really dont have control over nothing !!!!

  14. Wicked says:

    I just found some great land to buy, went and paid 3 months premium and bought up 100usd lindens now can buy nothing.

  15. Yngwie Krogstad says:

    OK, you guys are already way off-topic here. But if you really must bring it up, will you nay-sayers EVER be satisfied? LL does maintenance work on Wednesday, and everybody complains because things can’t be patched up before the weekend. Do maintenance work during the hours when LL’s employees usually work, AND there are people around outside of LL that can do anything about any problems that are not local to LL’s facilities, and everybody in Europe complains because it’s not convenient to the European residents, and therefore discriminatory. Now LL has the nerve to work on the Beta grid on a Monday, and you’re complaining again.

    Shut up already, will ya? Let the work be done for crying out loud!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Now, getting back on-topic, about Havok:

    Glad to hear things are coming along so well! Thanks for the update, Andrew! Looking forward to it being ready for prime-time on the main grid.

  16. geowhitfield says:

    OT: I’m referring to the previous blog post about GRID problems because I cannot comment there.

    #1 Why are comments always off on posts like that? Let us air our views even if you never answer them. Otherwise we just end up ranting OT in other posts like I’m doing just now.

    #2 Why do these grid problems keep happening? Ever since the big SL disaster a few weeks ago these problems keep recurring every few days and when they do my SL goes nuts. I end up barely seeing land, let alone myself or other avs. It’s always at the same time as the search etc goes down for everyone else. Please sort it out–this has been going on for a few weeks now and the update didn’t fix it.

  17. chechelChoche says:

    …sorry for my bad english !

    the first time i write here and i will take the orpunity to reclamate the new searchfunktion.

    i was wonder why nobody come more in my shops like before now i know it.
    all prices are readable in the searchfunktion but without the chance to show
    grafics about each price ;(((

    this new searchfunktion let the clients stay away from our shops and go where
    they find cheap stuffs.

    i dont understand this. it is not fair to show prices in the searchfunktion
    without grafik info too ;((( i will stop now to make propaganda for 600L$
    each week. sorry but this is not corekt.

    greetings CC

  18. Vincent Nacon says:

    @17: chechelChoche: SL’s market ground has been slow since gambling ban, it is not just you. Linden Lab had no choice.

    @16: geowhitfield: Before you ask why things aren’t working… It would be fair for Linden Lab if you know programming, network, computer and all the geek tech stuff because explaining the problem to the “public” is never easy when no one know those stuff. It’s like trying to teach a dog some math problems. No human in this world is perfect. Not even me, not even you. So that’s why Linden Lab can’t actually explains everything, so they are doing you a favor by not saying something that is too complex. Not only it’s complex and hard…. it would take a very long time to explain if one tried.

    @14: Wicked: Was the land on mainland or resident’s island? You don’t need premium for buying land on mainland. If your land was on a resident island, it’s very possible that you didn’t follow their term or got conned. Best to double check.

    @4: Borky Grid: It’s possible that your connection is having an issue since you are required to have cable speed to use Second Life.

    @6 & 7: Linda Brynner & Maaayybbeee: Beta Grid does NOT connect to Main Grid in any way of it. Whatever happens on Beta Grid has NO effect to Main Grid. They are both on a different Network Port. Servers that host the Beta Grid is not sharing anything with Main Grid. Only connection between the two is when they copy your account over to the Beta Grid… but that only happen once on a fixed date.

  19. Gaius Goodliffe says:

    @16: You’re perfectly free to post whatever you like on your own blog. Posting off-topic and thread-jacking is simply rude and immature. (If you’re tempted to respond to this comment with a comment about how rude they’re being to you first, this just highlights the immaturity. We are each responsible for our own actions, “He started it!” never absolves you for what *you* did, even in response. That’s a commonly held notion among children but adults hopefully outgrow it. Plus, it’s not LL you’re being rude to by posting off-topic, it’s other readers. What did I do to you to deserve the rudeness you’re showing me?)

  20. nada kayo says:

    I understand the problems are for today . But since 3 days , since I downloded the new version I cannot loggin at all .
    Can you help ?

  21. notagambler says:

    #19: You are offtopic.

    #10:Andrew, thanks for the Informations and keep on the good work.

  22. alf lednev says:

    19. I believe 16 has a right to post their concerns about SL on a SL Blog, Plus they are valid questions. The thread they were concerened about was closed and this one was used. Its not immature, its simply using a SL forum to air legimate concerns on SL performance.
    .
    Especially as this thread is merely the standard information message, the usual , “oops things dont workl” message, not world shattering. So the 150 spaces allocated, should be used and not simply by all the LL alts or their wannabe cheerleaders. Strange you didnt comment on #15 telling people to shutup. care to explain that slip? Immaturity levels do not apply to Linden lovers?. Hmmm??

    15 Grow up yourself, NEVER tell a paying customer to shut up. If people pay for a service and some here pay big money – ( thousands of US dollars a year lterally), they have a RIGHT to complain when what they pay for isn’t delivered. Especially when LL deliberately limits public access to them. Fact of life, accept it or offer to pay them compensation yourself. Since your obviously a linden alt or a wannabe linden, go learn some basic customer service skills. Else no matter how much you a** kiss LL, if you start insulting paying custsomers, you will find yourself still unloved and unwanted by LL. Dollars are the bottom line in the real world, LL struggles enough with retention problems of users, your not helping them.

  23. Dirk Felix says:

    Just to be clear, the QuickTime bug is a Linden Labs issue, not Apple. Apple does not have a reputation on shipping ALPHA or crap code 😉 Cool, seems like Havok is its namesake and gee, maybe just as wonderful as the Quicktime bug that LL wasn’t able to fix prior to launch. Hard to believe LL would ship something other than BETA. 😉

  24. Shaw Coage says:

    with about 100,000 people online at Second Life any interuption, no matter how important, will cause someone to be unable to log on. It seems there is NO quiet time here!

  25. U M says:

    100,000 with current viewer. HAHAHAHHAHAHA no but with H4 it will be.

  26. Sorry, work on Havok4 brings trouble into SL !
    This is so Mr. Linden !

  27. U M says:

    Havok4 will be a welcome addition. It might be perfect a the start but atleast well have the born of the next generatin with us. Good work!

  28. Eclaire Looming says:

    why do we have to log and relog log and relog etc to get a good voice connection?

  29. Sirius M says:

    I can’t get into Second Life AT ALL. I’m stuck at the stupid login screen. Now, I’ve done everything y’all have said to do. So, what’s the deal?

  30. WarKirby says:

    Can you just update MY inventory then?

  31. WarKirby says:

    If you all want to rant, go to a forum. like http://www.sluniverse.com

    This blog post is about havok 4, and all comments not about havok 4 are a waste of space.

    On topic, I tested the latest build, and the crash bugs are fixed. There does seem to be an occasional issue with avatar walking getting messed up. still trying to get an exact repro.

  32. Digital Digital says:

    Sounds awesome, I am excited!

  33. Tegg B says:

    “Linda Brynner Says:Damn it, Don’t do something like that on a Monday !!!
    Then a lot of land transactions take place, but not if
    Search, tp, and maps are down. This kills the business !”

    Since when does having the beta grid down prevents main grid sales?

    “7 mayaaaabeeee Says: yes i agree, doing this on a Monday its terrible.. i have to pay my rent really quickly and i can’t.. does anyone knows when everything is up again?”

    You pay someone to rent land on the beta grid, they sell you a bridge too?

    “Wicked Says: I just found some great land to buy, went and paid 3 months premium and bought up 100usd lindens now can buy nothing.”

    Well would you be silly spending $100USD on beta grid land

    “Sirius M Says:I can’t get into Second Life AT ALL. I’m stuck at the stupid login screen. Now, I’ve done everything y’all have said to do. So, what’s the deal?”

    The deal is the beta grid is down for maintenance, read the blog above

    “alf lednev Says:Especially as this thread is merely the standard information message, the usual , “oops things dont workl” message, not world shattering. So the 150 spaces allocated, should be used and not simply by all the LL alts or their wannabe cheerleaders. Strange you didnt comment on #15 telling people to shutup. care to explain that slip? Immaturity levels do not apply to Linden lovers?. Hmmm??”

    The spaces should be used by people doing the testing for of the betagrid, for those of you who want things improved but won’t help testing yourselves, perhaps he agrees with #15 😛

    “15 Grow up yourself, NEVER tell a paying customer to shut up. If people pay for a service and some here pay big money – ( thousands of US dollars a year lterally), they have a RIGHT to complain when what they pay for isn’t delivered. Especially when LL deliberately limits public access to them. Fact of life, accept it or offer to pay them compensation yourself. Since your obviously a linden alt or a wannabe linden, go learn some basic customer service skills. Else no matter how much you a** kiss LL, if you start insulting paying custsomers, you will find yourself still unloved and unwanted by LL. Dollars are the bottom line in the real world, LL struggles enough with retention problems of users, your not helping them.”

    There are Paying customers in the beta grid? Or even the main grid? Where?

  34. Ron Crimson says:

    Dirk @ 23:

    “Just to be clear, the QuickTime bug is a Linden Labs issue, not Apple. Apple does not have a reputation on shipping ALPHA or crap code”

    That so blatantly ignorant and just plain false, I don’t even have words to express my disgust.

    At least Linden Labs alerted us all in a proper fashion to this security issue, which Apple has yet to do. o_O

  35. Kage Seraph says:

    Andrew,
    Thanks for your faithful efforts in seeing Havok4 through. It has been a long road, but to hear that the initial limited debut may only be weeks away is very encouraging. The added benefits of H4 will be worth it, multiplied across the many thousands who will be able to enjoy it when you’re done. Godspeed, man! 🙂

  36. kenny Stringer says:

    Gee a waist try this Auction new Sims !!!!

  37. zebadee says:

    Lets hope this improves SL, cos it needs a major improvement tbh

    crash lag crash
    crash lag crash

  38. Argent Stonecutter says:

    You don’t have open comments on the TOS Update article, and you need to, because I need to ask if that fix you just described works for the situations where you’re unable to get a dialog when logging in when you’re behind a proxy server.

    And if not, you still need to add proxy support back to the preferences.

  39. Sidewinder Linden says:

    @3 Warkirby:
    Hi Warkirby – I was out of office Friday through Monday and am now catching up on things… If individual folks need their inventories refreshed from the main Second Life system to the Beta Preview I can make that happen on a limited basis (ones and twos – but not dozens). (Warkirby – your Beta Preview inventory should be refreshed on next login to match the current state of the main Second Life systme – please IM me or email if it isn’t up to date on your next login)

    Sidewinder

  40. Sidewinder Linden says:

    PLEASE keep comments on this blog post on-topic, and that is related to the Havok4 physics engine beta preview. Issues with the main Second Life system are off-topic here, login problems are off-topic, billing question are off-topic for this blog post, and chatter about them here distracts from the work we are doing on one of the next generation simulator elements that will hopefully reduce the simulator crash rate dramatically (*for those of you taking up entries talking about how we’re not fixing things – please note ;)*

    Best regards,

    Sidewinder

  41. elghinn masala says:

    I dont see why people have to bitch about SL having bugs and problems and everything. NOTHING is perfect, understand that right now, as they work out the kinks there are going to be problems, so people bitching bout previous problems, let them work on the problems, just complain like you all do, send in bug reports like you all normaly do and help make SL work better, instead of ranting and bitching on public channels, go and report the bugs, and what nots and bring it to light for LL so they can correct it, and work on it, now for the havoc4, I personaly havn’t seen it or tested it out on the beta grid, but honestly, if it helps SL being more stable that would be great, but if it’s just a cool spiffy new feature that will make SL better durring it’s more stable times, then awsome none the less, I appreciate all that LL does, and all their hard work. they should get reconized for all their great work, windlight, sculptie prims, all those great achievments that they have worked hard and strived for

  42. U M says:

    I just want to say Thank you for bring Havok4 to Second Life. many of us older player have been dreaming of this for a very long time. There wi be growing pains, But unlike voice ( uck! ) I believe Havok4 wil being vital features and stabilty to sl.

  43. pantaiputih korobase says:

    @40, sidewinder – yes, we all would love to be in topic all the time, but i feel that the ‘off topic’ people suffer strong enough by the current SL experience that they take any chance to express their feelings and LL should even appreciate this as they are seemingly addicted to the game (if it works).

    btw, what is havok? in topic now: may be I am the fool, but I very often do not understand what LL tells us – keep your speach simple pls for my simple mind 🙂

  44. Creem says:

    Just out of curiosity, are other Havok4 testers experiencing inconsistent vehicle behavior between Havok1 and Havok4 sims? I’ve been experiencing some strange behavior with airplanes (interactions between the vertical attractor, angular deflection, and reference frame), and I’m wondering if I’m the only one.

  45. Cai says:

    UNABLE TO CONNECT TO SECONDLIFE
    DNS COULD NOT RESOLVE HOST NAME.

    Oh great here we go again………………..

  46. Mal says:

    Got the same error message about dns…and..i’m supposed to be working right now – my RL job……work hard, our Linden Gods.

  47. SK says:

    dns could not resolve host name for me either! *sob* I needs mah fix.

  48. elghinn masala says:

    the unable to connect to second life DNS could not resolve host name (45,46,47) that’s not LL/SL problem, it’s your internet/computers problem, dont start blaming SL or LL cause YOUR computer can’t find the host, all you need to do is restart the modem, restart the computer and your set, never fails, never for me at least

  49. Maximilliano Minnelli says:

    Once again more new content being added which is fine and most likely welcomed if, if everything else wasn’t in the terrible shape it’s on now. Fix what you have in sl now, all the broken content which is plaguing this game then add new stuff. As is always the case, new content comes in all broken down which then adds more woes to sl residents. It’s bad enough the many things going on with which we have to deal with without ading windlight, havok and everything else.
    This is not the way to do it.

  50. Digital Digital says:

    I’m really excited to someday see the new engine on the maingrid, I logged on to the beta grid to test it out and had some problems with it, but im sure it will be awesome in the final stage 🙂

  51. Andrew Linden says:

    @49 Havok4 is primarily about eliminating the crash modes of the SL simulator. Other than one crash bug (using llSetCameraParams()), that is currently fixed in our maintenance branch and will eventually be merged into the Havok4 project, I don’t know of any way to crash a Havok4 simulator. I’m sure there are few ways, but I don’t know what they are. All of the easy modes have been fixed.

    When the Havok4 preview is open again I encourage everyone to go in and try to crash a preview region. I’ll be monitoring the crash reports to see if any are from new modes.

  52. Creem says:

    Actually Andrew, I’m wondering if my problem could be related to friction between my vehicle’s prims and the ground. Did the coefficients of friction for the various material types change between H1 and H4? Quantitative information about material types (wood, glass, etc) vs friction coefficients would be a welcome addition to the SL wiki. =)

  53. Andrew Linden says:

    First, there are some known vehicle bugs in Havok4. We’ve been punting those while we fix non-vehicle stuff. The idea was to see if we could get a version of the simulator that was used experimentally on region/estates that didn’t rely on anything that was known to be broken (such as vehicles). Is Havok4 ready for some small set of regions that only have dance parties, almost no dynamic (physical) content, but are crashy anyway? Does Havok4 reduce their crash rate? We think we’re near that experimental stage. I’m going to start looking at vehicles again later this week.

    Second, yes friction has changed in Havok4, however it isn’t so much to do with coefficients of friction or restitution (bounciness). Havok4 just handles collisions and energy/momentum conservation/loss differently… probably more correctly (closer approximation to RL dynamics). I’ve already added some “magic” (special case logic) for vehicles in an attempt to maintain Havok1 behavior, however I’ve only been partially successful in that regard. It is not clear yet how much closer to Havok1 I’ll be able to get for ground vehicles.

  54. la le lu says:

    please tell us when the beta grid is back.

    ty.

  55. Ann Otoole says:

    get’er done. we wants H4! 😀

  56. Andrew Linden says:

    BTW, I checked the crash logs on the Havok4 preview this morning and found two new crash bugs from last night. Thanks to all who tested it out.

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