WindLight Update 2007-11-20

Hello Everyone! This is Pastrami Linden from the WindLight Team here at LL. The good news is that the WindLight First Look debut has been a smashing success! We’ve had some amazing results thus far from Residents…

(by Vinco deCuir)

(by Fauve Beaumont)

(by silverdrake)

The better news is that we’ve been able to use your feedback and data to really work on what’s important in this First Look. A new viewer download will be coming out shortly, and, until then, we felt it was important to let you know which issues we’re actively working on that have been spotted in the wild. Some of the biggest ones on our plate right now (click the “VWR” links for more details):

  • Avatars and Textures are too overwashed/high contrast
  • General slowdown and default settings set too high for some GPUs
  • VWR-3133Making shiny look and feel like before
  • Getting performance in Leopard to be as good if not better than previous versions of Mac OS
  • VWR-3258Some wacky triangle stretching behavior on certain ATI cards (like X1600/1650)
  • VWR-925The restriction to only have atmospherics or high-end water, but not both, on certain GeForce cards
  • VWR-3103 Name tags not being clickable
  • VWR-3121Texture memory slider sticking and/or not showing up right
  • VWR-3123Avatars with attachments at higher altitudes sometimes not getting rendered
  • VWR-3289Avatar eyes having strange lighting when not facing the sun, or while underwater
  • VWR-3128Water missing in some regions with Basic Shaders on
  • System skirt textures turning invisible upon wearing

See the full list of open WindLight bugs.

Your feedback has been immensely helpful in all this. When you find issues, please submit them to the public Issue Tracker, making sure to first check that the issue isn’t already known and, for any new bugs, be sure to set the Affects Version/s to “First Look: WindLight”.

Most importantly, we’d love to have you at our office hours! Whether it’s to show us your latest work, comment on WindLight in general, or raise technically-specific concerns, we need you, our Residents, to help us in WindLight’s ongoing improvement. WindLight office hours are at:

If you miss a session, transcripts are posted here.

(Note that we will not be holding office hours this Thursday, Nov. 22nd, in honor of the delicious turkey.)

Thanks again for all of your positive feedback thus far, and I leave you with the links to any and all important info related to WindLight:

  • Previous WindLight Blog Posts: 1 2 3
This entry was posted in -Miscellaneous, Announcements & News, Bugs & Fixes, Resident Experience. Bookmark the permalink.

126 Responses to WindLight Update 2007-11-20

  1. Allvaldr says:

    Yay. Shinier graphics. How lucky we all are that these things are higher priority than fixing operational problems. ^-^ It just rocks to have a really good looking Second Life. Especially if it doesn’t let you log in.

  2. alpha says:

    ahhh shaddap Allvaldr! windlight rocks and SL rocks. get with da metaverse, embrace it in all its crazy unpredictablity. jeez, some people, you give em the tools to create worlds, they just sit n say meeeeeeeewwwwwww. GO AWAY!

  3. ZigZag Freenote says:

    Always a good idea to have a WindLight post ready to hide the blog posts on operational difficulties.

  4. Winter Ventura says:

    I really hate to be like this.. but is there *ANY* chance we’ll be seeing a return to a more “Classic” communications interface? the “Communicate Window” (introduced with voice) is simply a “non-starter” and has caused many of us to use hacked versions of the client in a desperate attempt to make SL usable again for daily business and general communications (not involving voice).

    I would really like to point Linden Labs to the implemenntation put together by Nicholaz Beresford.

    This implementation is a simple “backstep” from the unified “Communicate” window (which in the minds of many of us, does ANYTHING but foster communication).

    While I appreciate that Windlight, and other so-called “Shiny” new features are desirable in terms of increasing the userbase, keeping current and competing for marketshare.. it’s also important not to alienate your userbase in the process.

    Please consider taking a moment to review the usability of your current GUI before layering more and more on top of it. This issue has received hundreds of votes via the JIRA and yet receives little-to-no attention from those in a position to actually “FIX” what many of us feel is dreadfully broken in SL.

    What does this have to do with Windlight?

    I really want to try it.. it looks beautiful. But if I have to suspend my ability to manage 15-30 simultaneous business related IMs… then I’m “playing” not “working”.. I can’t afford that.

    Please direct a little administrative attention towards this issue that remains critical for many of us.

  5. alpha says:

    ps…am not being orrible, im bein nice πŸ™‚

  6. Robertt Avro says:

    Beautiful and absolutely stunning…great work you guys. I began using windlight last night and when I went to my beach house for the first tiime the image that came to my mind was that I was on the banks of the Nile river circa 1200 BC.(well ok there was a few helicopters, yachts etc. in the neighborhood but hey you get the idea) It was so peaceful and serene. I was very moved indeed by the beauty of the graphics and I love the sliding scale on the environment editor.

  7. nika talaj says:

    I think LL has been hearing from a lot of early adopters who are really wowed by pretty skies. Personally, I’m not in SL to look at the scenery. Windlight makes AVs, particularly light-skinned human ones, look awful.

    I doubt LL will change this, because they have already stated it is an inevitable consequence of “more realistic” dynamic range in lighting.

    Excuse me? Who is in SL to get a “realistic” experience? Most of SL’s users are here for “Magical Realism”, not reality.

    A big reason why a lot of people are in this game is because it is an immersive experience of being a gorgeous human being. Thus the obsession with “barbie doll” like collections of shoes, clothing, etc.. Make AVs skins look wretched and you lose that delight. And SL merchants lose a lot of commerce.

    I’ve tried Windlight in a few sims and times of day on my Intel-based computers, and on one gaming computer of a friend’s as well, so it is not only my machine. I’ve looked at some of the threads talking about all the tweaking you can do, but frankly, I think enabling a lot of client-side tweaking is a BIG mistake. If two avatars are looking at the same thing but see it vastly differently, that is a PROBLEM, not a feature.

    See these forum threads for more resident feedback:

  8. Alicia Sautereau says:

    Love it after a couple hours of playing while the server keeps having issue`s πŸ™‚

  9. Allvaldr says:

    Alpha, I spend all my time in SL building. So don’t baaaw to me, go back to your anon friends.

    “Always a good idea to have a WindLight post ready to hide the blog posts on operational difficulties.”

    Exactly the reason I posted. -_-

  10. Pastrami Linden says:


    Nika, we are certainly aware and are working to get the lighting to not wash out/overexpose existing content, including avatars. I’ve edited my original post to reflect that issue. Thanks!

  11. Ravening Umarov says:

    I really miss the bandwidth meter that normally appears in the upper rh corner of the screen header… I manage to use SL with a satellite uplink and to know what bandwidth use i am currently incurring is important to me with their current FAP.

  12. Nicola Samiam says:

    To echo some previous comments – Not much good having something that looks good on high-end graphics cards only, if the basics aren’t right. (ie: memory leaks, crashing, lag….)
    And personally, I’d prefer to see some improvements in avatar mesh/detail before any more on the landscape.

  13. Evangeline Biedermann says:

    i love windlight and all it’s possibilities..except..when it comes to avatar’s virtually impossible to find a light that is anything but unflattering on the’s either too bright and looks flat or it’s too dark and throws the weirdest shadows on the face..the nose looks like it has a black outline..please..if anyone has any suggestions..i’ld welcome may sound petty but it’s important to me

  14. Raven Primeau says:

    Shame SL is unplayable, waited 5 minutes for a skirt to load, couldnt TP anywhere IMs died, the place I love is unusable but hey we got pretty shineys SO BLOODY WHAT fix the grid so we can at least do something close to existing.

    Sorry to rant but sitting here with no info about what is wrong is just soul destroying. Keeping us in the dark is so the wrong policy.

    P’d off to the point of cancelling my account almost if it wasnt for all those dear loved ones I have in what should be a wonderful place, it used to be once………………….

  15. LaeMiQian says:

    Of course if everyone has to buy new skins, it might be GOOD for the vendors ;-D

    WindLight is, of course, FIRSTLOOK so naturally it isn’t going to get everything spot on: that is what FIRSTlook clients are for – a PREVIEW of what is coming and a chance to test and FIX issues. If it is unacceptable at this development stage, one can always use the MAINLINE viewer. That doesn’t mean people shouldn’t complain of issues – that is what is most needed – but pointless whining just gets tedious.

    Personally I loves the precious… um… WindLight Viewer, despite its remaining few aesthetic issues.

    And keep in mind the focus of this WL release is to get it as close to the colour rendering of the nonWL viewer as possible – they are not even thinking about the SERIOUS eye-candy YET!!!

  16. Ric Mollor says:

    And in other news “Zhengtu Online” recently passed the landmark of having one million concurrent users. One million online at once.

    That, folks, is cutting edge!

    Hopefully the Windlight viewer can be improved so as not to ruin the appearance of avatars. Though second life does allow building, it is an avatar centric world and the majority of the economy revolves around avatar accessories and customization.

  17. alexwarrior says:

    G’day Pastrami

    I have to say I didn’t rush to download Windlight, but after talking to a friend about what they were seeing real time, I decided to.

    WOW – I would EVERY ONE to get it. The place really does look VERY VERY AMAZING – and I for one have always loved the landscapes of SL.

    This just makes me love my waterside / mountain side land even more!

    Thanks for noting the Atmosperics or High-end Water bug – I have that issue too!

    But LOVE LOVE LOVE the world under windlight!


  18. Lindal Kidd says:

    @4: I like the Nicholaz viewer, but not for the oldstyle communications interface. In fact, I rather like the new viewer’s Communicate window. One improvement: Make it more flexible in resizing, and allow vertical tabs as an option.

    @7: I like the look of Windlight landscapes, but not the avatars. Ick. I fully agree with Nika about the wide user customizations being a problem, not a feature. If the final version allows this much tweaking, we will all be living in our own worlds, not living in one virtual world with each other. One *possible* solution would be to allow people to send each other their viewer settings, and have a one-click “apply” button. But I think minimizing the custom settings int the first place, or at least hiding them very deep, is better yet.

  19. I’m really blown away by Windlight so far – I have a feeling a lot of existing content is going to have to be reworked to fit the look. A lot of SL content was made with a 15% – 20% cartoonish look to avoid the uncanny valley – now it does like slightly out of place, but the reflections are unbelievable! “System skirt textures turning invisible upon wearing” – are you sure that isn’t a feature? πŸ˜‰

  20. Stephen Zenith says:

    I wish a Linden would look at VWR-3169 – Atmospheric shaders are badly broken on GeForce 8600s using linux…

  21. Berry Steinhoff says:

    Visually, WindLight is outstanding. Congratulations to the team working on this excellent upgrade of Second Life.

  22. Cocoanut Koala says:

    Pastrami, the Windlight is too intense, especially at sunset; and too harsh and crisped during the day.

    I’ve taken some pictures of how Windlight at sunset completely changes the hue of some of my textures – from plum to blood-red orange, for example.

    The fact that sunlight must reach entirely throughout the interior of all structures (even those without windows) with equal intensity makes it all the worse.

    When your color bears no resemblance at all to the original color, it is too much.

    I’ll be sending you these pictures after Thanksgiving, and also trying to attend the meetings.

    I hope you will tone this down.


  23. Ann Otoole says:

    wonderful! great job and fast too!

    (any chance of getting llSetPrimitiveParams(PRIM_GLOW, ALL_SIDES, float glow) or maybe an lsl function called llSetGlow(float glow, integer face) to support glow?)

  24. Marianne McCann says:

    Overall, I’m quite pleased with WL, and I’m glad to see some of my “favorite” bigs bein worked on. I’m actually pleasantly surprised to se it working with my ol GeForce FX built in to my PowerBook G4. Keep up the good work!

  25. Visually stunning, with the caveat about the harsh contrast and color changes inside buildings. I am glad to see bad performance on your list. I have not filed it as a bug in the JIRA, nor looked for it, because I assumed you can collect stats about framerate directly.

    Suffice it to say that the performance hit for me is such that Windlight Firstlook is really only useable when no one is around, or at settings that are uglier than using the standard viewer.

    I very much look forward to a production-quality release of Windlight. The visuals, if perfected and implemented in a client with better performance, really are stunning.

  26. Smiley Barry says:

    Awesome! Now all we residents need to do is find a way for supercomputer owners to run Second Life WindLight on their PCs/Macs/Playstation 3s! πŸ˜‰

  27. Lukas Mensing says:

    What about not having water AND atmospheric advanced settings on a laptop equipped with some graphic cards (Intel GM :(.
    These options were present on the first Windlight version. They aren’t anymore. many people use laptops to connect to SecondLife…
    Was a big deception for me.

  28. Bobo Decosta says:

    @ 4 I do not agree with you on the communication part. For me the communication part today is much better then it used to be. I have tried the Nicolaz viewer as someone said it would give me better performance on my Mac but the old style communication method in that viewer made me turn back to using the official viewer.

  29. HoneyBear Lilliehook says:

    I’m a strong supporter of LL and SL, but really, it would be far more productive for you to spend manhours fixing the client that MOST people can use, rather than working on a new client that SOME people can use. I just purchased a new computer in June, runs the current viewer perfectly, but WL isn’t good on it. So what, I’m supposed to go buy ANOTHER new computer?

    Please just FIX what we currently have!!

  30. Kim Anubis says:

    Thanks for the update, Pastrami! And great work. πŸ™‚

  31. Bobo Decosta says:

    To comment on WL I really like the development of it but like someone mentioned before we will have to redesign our land and too much options is indeed not good because every light setting changes your design entirely. To me it seems that the WL team is so enthusiastic that they really wanna show of but … less is more and this really accounts for WL. You should really see what our the best settings matching together and that will be the new second life.

    I do appreciate the latest development like search and WL but my fear is that if the grid today is so unstable all new features will make it even worse eventually. So my hope is LL has some secret project running where they have rebuild SL from scratch works flawlessly and adds those new features.

  32. Pingback: The Grid Live » Second Life News for November 20, 2007

  33. ONE PO'd RESIDENT says:

    ya all can stick ur windlight where sun dont shine i swear FIX THIS BLOODY GAME already and STOP putting this new stuff we want STABLE NOT NEW! i never seen such piss poor programming in my life cannot TP without it logging off or getting u stuck in space and whatever the hell ya all are doing is AFFECTING OUR computers cus i only lock up and freeze when using this bloody program and its only when u all are working in the background touching things YOU SHOULD NOT TOUCH unless u know what the hell it is
    we want the game stable LISTEN TO YOUR MAJORITY OF CUSTOMERS what the hell do we need to do go to san fran into ur offices and yell it in ur face already
    we run businesses here and im about to pack mine up and take it elsewhere over a year of this crap is just OLD already and always the same old excuses
    gawd wake up and READ ur customers NO MORE NEW CRAP!!!! FIX THE OLD!!!!!

  34. Pingback: » It’s Time For LL To Actually Do Something - Strange’s Second Life Blog

  35. Paulo Dielli says:

    β€’ Avatars and Textures are too overwashed/high contrast
    β€’ Making shiny look and feel like before

    Ahhhhhhh YES YES YES!!! Thank you for addressing these major issues. πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚

  36. Grace says:

    Thankyou for looking into the ‘invisible skirt’ issue.. it was getting a little embarrassing πŸ˜‰

    loving windlight so far

  37. Michi Lumin says:

    In re @7 and @9:

    The OP says that essentially we *want* unrealistic lighting on our avatars, so that people can look ‘gorgeous’.

    Now, Pastrami – Wait just a minute here.

    Finally with Windlight we’re seeing some real lighting on the avatars. People aren’t walking around looking “flourescent”.

    I -strongly- believe that the lighting effects on the avatars *should not be nerfed*.

    Lighting should interact with avatars just as it does other objects.

    I know this will fall on deaf ears. But please, the look of avatars standing in a sunset right now *is* immersive, and it *is* gorgeous.

    Please don’t nerf windlight so that everyone’s faces look like they’re constantly lit by modelling lamps.

    At different times of day, people look different; bodies cast shadows to show contour. The contrast is a good thing, and I hope it won’t be reverted back to the way “Old SL” looked.

    Please consider this, Pastrami. We’re adding more realistic lighting here. When an avatar is in an area with the sun at an acute angle, it should look like light is playing on it that way — not a bright shining self-lit backlit flourescent beacon.

    I.e., “model studio lighting” should not follow the avatars wherever they go when the rest of the world is affected (damn nicely) by this realistic lighting.

    If you want your “beautiful face” to cast no shadows, then set up lighting that way for the time being, as in a photoshoot.

    Some of us DO want realistic looking avatars, and not cartoonish overly-backlit characters that aren’t affected by sun and shadow.

    Please consider this before drastically neutering avatar lighting in Windlight.

  38. Angry Users says:



  39. Samara Nerd says:

    I concur, dont nerf windlight. I want my realistic lighting on my avatars ;;

    Windlight is so beautiful, dont take that away. I love my pixie av and my other avs alot but I enjoy that so much more now that lighting actually affects the avatar. I dont want to look like a model 24/7 with perfect lighting on my skin.

    I think this gives me a chance to take some more interesting and creative snapshots.

  40. Deltango Vale says:

    I have been a sharp critic of LL on strategic policy issues, but I consider the Windlight viewer a significant improvement well worth the development time invested in it.

    Question: is the sunset/sunrise position out of alignment or is it seasonal? In RL, the sun rises and sets further north in summertime and closer to the east-west axis in wintertime. I presume that since it is now winter, sunrise and sunset in SL are occurring along the east-west axis accordingly. Thus, I presume the Windlight sun/moon positions will move in harmony with RL seasons. Am I correct? If I’m wrong, please straighten me out on my astronomy πŸ™‚

    Good work LL. Congratulations on a job well done.

  41. Tengu Yamabushi says:

    Another vote here for realistic lighting. Otherwise… what’s the point, really, of the lighting enhancements? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder – but you can’t cater to 100 different definitions of what beauty might be. Fall back to ‘realistic’, please, and let folks tweak their own settings if they so desire.

  42. Dytska Vieria says:

    Keep up the great work and please fix the VWR-3258 bug so ATI users can enjoy the scenery! Also it would be nice to have RenderDynamicReflections work with ATI cards as well.

  43. WindLight does a lot to pull SL into a much more photorealistic realm with respect to atmospherics, sunlight, etc. Applied to the grid, it has the potential to bring a new dimension of control to parcel owners. As this new feature moves from preview to release, I hope that a few considerations nudge the development.

    The default ‘night’ settings have issues. They make the land and objects looks as if they’ve been set fullbright. When it’s nighttime, the ground, trees, and avs should be nearly black, with the exception of moonlight (if applicable) and hardware lighting. Don’t nerf nighttime.

    The water shaders don’t seem to work at all. None of the perferences or ‘environment settings’ seem to have any effect whatsoever. I’m on Vista64 with an 8800GT/512 and nforce 169.09. Please fix this…

    I’d general agree with others, and want to reiterate that avatars need to be treated the same as objects/terrain with respect to how WindLight’s feature’s affect them.

  44. Codex Rau says:

    Yes PLEASE keep up the work on Windlight. I really enjoy the scenery and the lighting. I think it adds a lot to the experience. Its also some of the best water I’ve seen period.

    If people are concerned with the lighting on their avatars, maybe make it so the lighting on avatar mesh and attached prims is optional or adjustable. My 2 cents… Personally I think its fine.

  45. Gunnar Korobase says:

    I personally like the new look!! But from the postings here one can see not everyone thinks the same.. Some don’t care about sky or water but care about their Avatar. Some Don’t seem to care at all and always have something to complain about..
    I say, GREAT job guys.. I love it! For those who don’t.. maybe create a profile at OuterWorlds, Moove or any of the other 3D worlds and see if you care about the looks then.
    SL Rocks!!


  46. Michi Lumin says:

    Amen to that Gunnar.

    I think to a lot of folks this is a “Surprising” look and kind of a “shock to the system” – but it’s not WORSE, it’s DIFFERENT.

    The looks (if they are maintained – and please do!) – are going to take some getting used to.

    Don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater. From what I’ve been hearing inworld, a LOT of people REALLY like the new lighting effects, on everything.

    Even on the avatars — and for some, *especially* on the avatars.

    This is one of the best SL releases I’ve seen.

    Please let it live up to its potential!

  47. Aradia says:

    On the old windlight we had something called “avatar vortex program” which we still have in the regular viewer, but it’s been removed from windlight. Well, when I had the frist windlight and would uncheck that option, all shadows and funky eyes would vanish, yet I still had my pretty skies and water. Can you please bring this back? I mean can you give us a way to turn off these settings on the avatar it self and still be able to keep the skies, and water?

    I hope so, thanks!

  48. Sammytha Paine says:

    Hi all… One thing for Lindens maybe this can help us.

    In all old nvidia drivers the OpenGL are 2.1.1 the new firmware drivers 169.09 the OpenGL version is 2.1.2

    Maybe this can help… i have the same problem, not windlight effects with the new drivers, and the old nvidia drivers crash my computer every 10minutes.

  49. Pinocchio Wilber says:

    i had the same problem, but i immediately deleted the Nvidia driver for CRYSIS(169.09 (i had 169.04)) and installed the old 163.75 and it worked….. AA didnt work, but it wasnt a driver prob…. i got AA back by using the desktop-shortcut of SLWL

    sl pino

  50. Great Effort and Thank You for bringing WindLight back to SecondLife!
    I’m looking forward to future developments.
    Keep up the good work! ,,,=^_^=,,,

  51. Uccello Poultry says:

    Wooo! “Getting performance in Leopard to be as good if not better than previous versions of Mac OS.” As I’ve posted before, my performance has gotten better in some respects. Particularly not as often needing to turn off “Volume” or “Simple” under in the Client menu’s Rendering group. I have yet to find a memory leak, but it sure acts that way, though. If I don’t relog every two hours performance tanks. Without documentation/proof I hesitate to make a formal report.

    Overall, though, Windilight rocks in performance as well as looks! Thanks! I look forward to Shiny being fixed as well as other continued improvements.

  52. Mini Pinion says:

    The first impression was literally stunning .. BUT, if I have to chose between pretty graphics and the style UI, which for example the Nicholaz Client is offering, then I know which client I will be using. And sadly it wont be the FirstLook one 😦

  53. Carbine Cat says:

    I’m loving the Glow feature on prims. Opens a whole new lot of possibilities, within 5 minutes I’d knocked up a prototype lightsaber with a blade better than any I’d seen in SL so far and a set of glowing eyeballs. Mind you, I had to spend time building things as I was unable to TP out of my cabin (and no that wasn’t a Windlight Viewer issue, the regular viewer had me trapped too.) This was after a post saying this sort of thing had been resolved for the day, not long after a mysteriously back-dated blog entry claiming to have been put up on Friday but actually not there until Sunday. Hmmm…
    BTW I like Voice lots too. But I don’t blame all SL’s problems on that and Windlight.

  54. Joe Brynner says:

    too bad that I need a new graphic card to enjoy windlight…

  55. Storyof Oh says:

    Resolved performance???? no comments allowed…….after my 4th crash in 30 mins i would suggest very little is solved and i’m sure everyone echoes the desire NOT to HIJACK other blogs but what to do???
    windlight? basically if you put a match to…erm flatulence ….thats pretty much the windlight i see………….

  56. Talarus Luan says:

    Any word on VWR-3111? (the 256-color shader issue with the ATI Catalyst AI setting)

  57. Asriazh Frye says:

    Theres this bug where the new search engine, more precisely LLWebBrowserCtrl expensively polled for updates, to it was hidden (search tab or window closed).
    This is true for all client versions which have the new search all. Since the bug got fixed internally and it was promised to release a new 1.18.5.x with this fix soon, when can we expect a new windlight client with the same fix?
    btw, all in all windlight looks great ^_^


  58. Rascal Ratelle says:

    (Getting performance in Leopard to be as good if not better than previous versions of Mac OS)

    What about getting the current versions of mac OS X PPC based viewers performance to work better first.

    the performance of Current mac OS X viewers is NOT as good as you think it is or as good as it can be, there are MANY still unadressed issues in Jira.

    Hardware Overview:

    Machine Name: iMac
    Machine Model: PowerMac6,1
    CPU Type: PowerPC G4 (3.3)
    Number Of CPUs: 1
    CPU Speed: 1.25 GHz
    L2 Cache (per CPU): 256 KB
    Memory: 768 MB
    Bus Speed: 167 MHz
    Boot ROM Version: 4.6.8f4

    GeForce FX 5200:

    Chipset Model: GeForce FX 5200
    Type: Display
    Bus: AGP
    VRAM (Total): 64 MB
    Vendor: nVIDIA (0x10de)
    Device ID: 0x0329
    Revision ID: 0x00a2
    ROM Revision: 2068

    Second Life 1.18.4 (3) Nov 7 2007 11:19:15 (Second Life Release)

    You are at 283412.6, 267890.0, 55.5 in Pahto located at (
    Second Life Server

    CPU: PowerPC 7450 (1249 MHz)
    Memory: 768 MB
    OS Version: Darwin 8.10.0 Darwin Kernel Version 8.10.0: Wed May 23 16:50:59 PDT 2007; root:xnu-792.21.3~1/RELEASE_PPC Power Macintosh
    Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation
    Graphics Card: NVIDIA NV34MAP OpenGL Engine
    OpenGL Version: 1.5 NVIDIA-1.4.18
    LLMozLib Version: 1.1.0 (Mozilla GRE:
    Packets Lost: 159/4037 (3.9%)
    Viewer Digest: d02557a7-9ba2-fb80-224d-cb0603873991

  59. Rascal Ratelle says:

    Also once again the Three type of mac systems are:

    Mac OS X PowerPC processor
    Mac OS X Intel based processors

    Also Mac OS usually refers to Mac OS 9 Classic.

  60. DanielRavenNest says:

    Two settings adjustments that make me and the world look better:

    -World Menu/Environment Editor/Advanced Sky/Lighting:

    Sun/Moon Color: set to a lower value (Im using 0.14) and save as default. Makes things a lot less harsh

    Advanced Water/Settings:

    Fog Density Exponent: set lower if you want to see thru the water
    (Im using 1.0), and save as default

    Im not sure how persistent the changes are across sessions yet.

  61. Fenleab says:

    I have an 8600 GT NVidia and I can’t even run it πŸ˜₯

  62. Brenda Maculate says:

    Something I thought was pretty interesting: I was on my skybox at 750m and I looked over the side. I was surprised to see a WAVE rolling below me, to the west! My draw distance in the First Look viewer is at defaults, if that matters.

    I’m not complaining, mind you… My land is not near the ocean, so this was a pleasant surprise for me to see.

  63. Argent Stonecutter says:

    @38 and others: I’m getting BETTER framerate with similar quality in Windlight than in the stock client. I don’t care so much about the quality improvements, but that by itself makes it worthwhile. And, remember, I was really critical of the first Windlight release… I’m not just a booster here.

  64. Slartibartfast Magicthise says:

    Crashes at Login Screen for me.

    Smashing success.

    Regular client and Release Candidate Client work fine.

    FirstLook no go.

  65. Storyof Oh says:

    okkkkkkkkkkkkk cant login cant stay in cant search on alt computer and in my e-mail is a survey from second life support on performance!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! er deep breaths needed before replying and then they should be fixing not wasting time reading survey replies…
    What exactly is Resolved?

    yeah windlight er great ….

  66. Arwenna Stardust says:

    @40 – Not all SL residents live in the Northern hemisphere….those of us south of the RL equator are already struggling with seeing snow everywhere in SL.

    Maybe SL needs its own seasons – until then, an equatorial feel is fine by me……

  67. sitta nemeth says:

    It seems to have been said before, but cant hurt to say it again. It would sure be nice if basic operations of non windlight RC viewers could be stable and operational before spending all this time on newer things.

  68. Gillian Waldman says:

    I would just like to thank Torley for staying on top of the critical bugs. We all would like to enjoy Windlight and here’s hoping that careful management through JIRA will help.


  69. Yngwie Krogstad says:

    One request for Windlight before it becomes a production client:

    Let us create ponds with reflectivity. Water that can reflect nearby surroundings just like the LL created water does, only user-created instead. Above the LL-imposed water table level. That would be of great benefit!

  70. JetZep Zabelin says:

    Besides Avatar Imposters, could it be possible to have Landscape Imposters so we could see the landscape go off into the horizon without actually rendering a landscape mesh. The images generated by the map (see slurl) could be used for these Landscape Imposters which are low detail and only update when the map is updated.

    This would improve the experience of flying up in the clouds and looking down at the ground and can improve performance.

  71. Shinobi Hayashida says:

    Really surprising realistic pictures, hardly saw so life-like landscape anywhere else nor within Second Life so far, this really needed a deeper look and to read description to confirm this wasn’t actually real pictures, good work..!

  72. Kettu Keiko says:

    umm.. is it me or is this link still pointing to the Nov14 version 1.18.5(73655) Windlight release? i can’t seem to get to the Nov 20 release??

  73. Jonny Baldwin says:

    While it is visually stunning and HOPEFULLY more stable in the MAC OS (and all others like it used to be many moons ago), my big concern or question is how does one make a product for sale now? Will we all have to put a note card explaining the settings used to make the object look its best? What about selling a painting of the red sea that looks orange to lets say half of the population? Currently we can slide by w or w/o shiny, but now what? Everyone is going to see this wonderful world in thousands of different combinations. I guess as far as our islands go, the note card will work explaining the “best viewed” settings. Not a big deal I guess, but again, when does the note cards or explaining end as more and more features are added so everyone sees things so differently? >shrugs< Anyway, please continue to fix the basics first so we ALL can enjoy SL no matter what income level we may be in ( low or high end graphic cards or the resources to rush out and buy a new card just to enjoy being here ) It’s a no win job you have, but thank you guys for working so hard to give us this awesome place.

  74. Mimika Oh says:

    Windlight looks great if you’re outdoors, but it makes indoors look like outdoors! I have bright sunlight in my house like my walls are transparent. Lots of us spend a lot of time indoors.

  75. Silverblade Dagger says:

    After updating my ATI x1650 drivers to make WL work effectively, then realizing that it mangled my DX9c and I spent several hours trying to fix that and ended up having to install older Catalyst drivers… just so I can play other games, WL is awesome!

    But still, as great as WL is, it’s just like putting shiny spinner hubcaps, a $4k sound system, and hydraulics on a rusted out, missing a rod, muffler and 1st gear of a Ford Pinto held together by it’s paint and duct tape. I’m glad to know there are some improvements with WL besides of the cosmetic, but SL as a whole needs to be refurbished and made more reliable. Trade in the Pinto for a Cadillac STX (made proudly here in Lansing, MI).

    If anything, the programming, hardware, and etc ought to be sifted through with a fine-toothed comb and nip potential problems before they start. I for one, would be more than willing to see maintenance shutdowns for a few hours every day for a week or two to address this and be mostly done with it, than see daily and even hourly error reports every day for months on end.

    Maybe I haven’t kept up with what is going on, or know what is planned and etc, but for SL to stay innovative and useful, it has to be stable and reliable for longer than a few hours or days. The shiny and beautiful views are refreshing, and lets me know something is being done, but this has to be the tip of a very big mega-prim iceberg!

    Honoris Causa…
    Silverblade Dagger

  76. Yngwie Krogstad says:

    @ 74….

    Good point, Mimika. Could we see some kind of occlusion added to prims, please? Seeing a fire inside of a cave lighting up my swimming pool 10 meters away, even through the wall of the cave, is rather disconcerting, not to mention the fact that the sun is shining through supposedly solid walls in the cave that we can’t see through.

  77. Seth Ock says:

    Message 10:
    Ravening Umarov Says:

    “I really miss the bandwidth meter that normally appears in the upper rh corner of the screen header ….”

    I was worried about that too, but if you go under the “Help” menu and select “Lag Meter”, you’ll see what I think is the intended replacement. I actually like this gadget a little bit better, although I’d rather see it dockable in the titlebar so it takes up less screen size.

    And count me in with the group that likes the new WL lighting effects on avatars. Frankly, I think all the avatars look better in WL now that they’re being lit more realistically. The only problem I have is the way outdoors light effects indoors objects, but I don’t think there’s much that can be done for that … unless parcel owners will eventually have the ability to set WL lighting profiles on a per-square meter basis.

  78. Connie Sec says:

    While the environment lighting looks supposedly realistic, I take issue with the opinion that AV lighting is realistic. The contrast between light and dark is too great. In the “real world”I don’t see such a difference unless I’m out at noon in the Australian desert. Our eyes do not see as physics dictates we should.We have what are called “pupils” that control the input of light reaching the retina. Our brains too make “corrections” to the image reaching our eyes This then stops us from seeing the excessive contrast we experience in Windlight. This excess of course is especially apparent in Avatar lighting, and I, for one, am glad to see this issue addressed. However, it is also an issue in the rendering of objects in world. That said, it is a first look viewer, and our feedback is crucial to the development of any future windlight enabled client. So let us not get our knickers in a twist.

  79. eltee Statosky says:

    Overall i think it looks very good. I would absolutely *hate* to see the actual rendering integrity compromised on avatars though. It has been so frustrating trying to work with avatar coloring where the ‘skin’ is rendered completely differently than the attachments.

    I wish it would render the skin similarly to any other object, heck, mabye default to there, as it does look so good now, and if someone does have a problem, allow them to ‘alter’ the light on their specific avatar via some appearance menu setting.

    That way those of us who are more interested in actually having the world look good and authentic can enjoy the welcome seamlessness of the new lighting system, and those who desire a more ‘stylized’ system (or one reminiscent of the old system’s avatar mesh handling) can elect for themselves to have it render that way for their avatar.

    If thats not really feasable at least some way to choose ‘globally’ client side what you see would be nice. I hate just the very idea having someone say ‘i don’t want my chin to render this way’ and basically compromising the entire rendering engine in response :/

  80. U M says:

    Ok, here we go with incorrect Bug reports……some i can understand because i experience them.l But a few others! shakeshead……..

  81. Farallon Greyskin says:

    Concur, AV skin and attachments AMUST reder the same. WL as it is does a much better job of this that the old client.

    BUT the problems with the washout and constant color tinting and high contrast lighting are not JUST problems with the skins! They affect ALL textures on everything. The lighting model needs to be tweaked for everything so that everything looks good in bright daylight as well as other times of day. But skins and objects MUST be rendered exatly the same way.

  82. coventina dalgleish says:

    Bugs in this version seem to be video card specific I run a 6800 ultra and in the two highest settings the prim brightness is cartoon like. Other settings do look nice though but it will take some getting used to with the new skin shadings.

    On another note I see some are still enjoying the Linden party from last night. An outsider looking in might draw the conclusion that the system designers do not quite grasp the concept of what they are trying to manipulate.

  83. Michi Lumin says:


    Farallon, agreed. Finally we have that, after a long time of -not- having it. (Attachments are finally lit just like avatars are, after years of having them lit differently.)

    For folks who don’t like this lighting, and want the old lighting back, you *CAN* turn off basic shaders, and SL ends up looking like it used to.

    I don’t see much point in making the new shaders look like the old SL; let’s just keep it optional?

    I’ve noticed that severity of the ‘washout’ varies by video card. It might be worthwhile to look at that instead of just throw the whole model out.

    Had about five avatars standing next to the water in a sunset last night.

    It looked REALLY good, and I’d hate to see those avs glowing like flourescent bulbs while the rest of the environment is affected by the sunset.

    Not everything is a modeling photoshoot.

  84. Liam Roark says:

    So saddened to see people criticizing the new lighting engine; After years of SL rendering like a child’s crayon drawing, we finally have directional light that acts on people, objects, and the landscape in a way approaching the way it does in real life. People are used to SL looking like a Softbox-lit cel-shaded cartoon where your nose, despite actually being a fleshy protuberance from the front of your face, casts no shadows and does no offense to your appearance – it would be a horrible shame to cast out a gorgeous new lighting engine which affects the entire world of SL, because it makes someone’s face look funny. I’d say it’s like cutting off your nose to spite your face, but that’s too terrible a pun to allow.

  85. KillerMonkey Spire says:

    @76 & @74

    Be sure to VOTE by logging into JIRA and selecting VOTE on the left hand side.

  86. Fade Languish says:

    I didn’t see anything in that list of issues about windlight on the Macbook Pro with Nvidia 8600M GT. I get less than 1 fps with the windlight client (running OSX10.4.10, and I read Linden comments that said they were having difficulty with this model. Are you going to make sure it works before you roll this out? I really don’t want to be left out in the cold even though I have a brand new computer.

  87. Mimika Oh says:

    Liam Roark: Constructive criticism improves things. I’m sure LL already knows how great the outdoor environment looks with Windlight, because it does look amazing. The trouble is I think most of us spend out time looking at each other and on the inside of buildings. Otherwise why would there be such a big market for skins, clothes, and buildings? LL encourages us to build homes and spend time in the, Even with Windlight I don’t think the whole focus of people will shift to outdoor sightseeing because people are _people_ and we only want to spend some of our time doing that. Avatar appearance has to be very high priority, and indoor lighting too.

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  89. Mimika Oh says:

    @85 KillerMonkey Spire: Thanks for pointing out but shadows might not be the answer. Instead I have tried to describe the problem in because there might be more than one solution.

    @37, @39, @81: Second Life is a fantasy world for many people and they really _do_ want to look like beautiful models all the time, which is why people spend so much time walking around with lamps attached to their noses or hair. People want the landscape to look beautiful and themselves to look beautiful in it. Realism isn’t the goal — enjoyment is — and not everyone gets enjoyment from realism. There was a very interesting lecture on this from a Korean professor at GDC 2007, pointing out that it’s almost all Americans who want realism and Asians want something more “cartoon” like and emotionally expressive (results obtained by looking at MMORPG game success and by surveys of priorities). I know SL is not a MMORPG and the population is a bit different BUT my point is that realism is not everything nor is it even thrilling to everyone.

    But who can deny that the landscapes with Windlight are beautiful!

  90. Distilled1 Rush says:

    I loved the first windlight and love this even more.

    Issue I am having is certain textures of my build disappearing and attachments and or AV disappearing all random all a but weird.
    the FPS dying when a window is open is bad, as the memory leaks this FL has.

    But kudos the custom settings and making everything maxed man I still get 30FPS and love the look .
    What about being able to save your custom sky and give it to friends? I have one set for my land and would like to have people see it during shows…

  91. Pepper Haas says:

    I agree that windlight is beautiful; but I agree more with the post which said it’s like putting shiny hubcaps on a broken-down Ford. Three blogs above this are about all sorts of problems occurring in SL, and everybody just pretends that has absolutely nothing to do with how in the background Windlight is being put on and, as with voice, they simply don’t care how many bugs it introduces and/or re-introduces for regular play.
    I have to go all the way back to April, to remember a time when I could just be everywhere and go anywhere and not crash and turn the right way in the edit appearance window and use group IM etc. etc etc.; and soon after that ten thousand avatars (paying members too) signed a petition for the Lindens to fix certain bugs including the screwed up group IM —

    and we have voice

    and we have windlight

    but no, or few fixes of a system that has been bug-ridden and crash prone for months. It seems that the objective is to have lots of empty, but very pretty sims. Very well done, then.

  92. Taff Nouvelle says:

    My main complaint is that dark is no longer dark, in the old viewer, i can set so that midnight is actually dark, with shadowy figures, in Windlight, it never gets past dusk.

  93. Kogenta says:

    Just fix the bugs please and stop adding new ones

  94. Twa Hinkle says:

    This is my first post ever made to any forum/blog etc. in SL or anywhere else. I have not because of two reasons. 1. I would rather spend my time in world than out. and 2. I don’t want to get involved in arguments with people that don’t have a clue about the reality of developing a complex VR system like SL. That said, here are my two cents.

    Windlight is great. If I have my choice I will use it from now on and never look back. Granted, it still has issues, but that is to be expected.

    I STRONGLY agree with others here in hoping that you will not nerf avatar and night lighting. If I want to see things with constant lighting I will carry my own lights with me.

    As to indoor vs. outdoor, it really doesn’t seem that much different than the non WL viewer to me. Both treat walls as nonexistant. A person in a room with no lights or windows in RL would not be lit at all. I would like that in SL too but realize the limits of what can be done right now.

    One thing that I would like to see included someday is the ability to set all enviroment settings through LSL, with permisions if necessary. I realize that some may not like this and there may be a tech reason why it has not been done, but I feel that the kludge of saving and passing around EV settings would not be a good way to go. It also would allow for many dynamic effects, like weather etc. that can only be done client side by hand now.

    Keep up the good work. And YAY for progress. When SL stops going forward is when I will probably leave.

  95. Mimika Oh says:

    @94: You have no idea who you are talking to or whether we understand the reality of developing a VR system. Please address the arguments as they stand, without attempting to devalue them by belittling the people making them.

    _You_ might be happy to carry your own lights around, but what about all the new people coming in? _You_ might not see the underlying technical difference between the old and new lighting indoors, but I can assure you it looks very different to me! The non-windlight viewer makes indoors more like ambient light, but then outdoors looked like that too. I’m just calling for balance.

    Pastrami says “Your feedback has been immensely helpful in all this.” Not mine personally, I’m sure, but I’m sad to see people complaining about other people providing feedback. I guess now I’m complaining about that. Meta meta meta. Sorry.

    But absolutely YAY for progress too!

  96. I have nothin’ but love. Lighting is great, the bugs are not showstopping. Sock it to me, Lindens! MORE WINDLIGHT!!!

  97. Brent Finn says:

    … * I walked outside 2 nights ago… looked up towards the mountains…. and was amazed by the sunset… i sat and watched it for a good 15 minutes as the pink, orange clouds floated over my head.. the deep blue sky behind the rippling clouds… i gasped.. in awe.. sooo beautiful !! I silently though to myself…. WOW .. this looks just like Windlight in SL… i really thought for a moment the rl sky had been replaced with a windlight sunset… πŸ™‚
    Thank you LL for helping bring that moment together for me in time.. I LOVE YOU !!! *hugs.. *kiss

  98. Steven Morrisey says:

    Ok… I admit I’m still new to SL. The Windlight environmental graphics look great from the screen captures I’ve seen, but tell me… Isn’t this going to make even the most-detailed avatars look cartoonish by comparison? Is there anything in development at Linden Labs to create photorealistic avatars with more precise movements? Just wondering….

  99. Arahan Claveau says:

    The Nvidia beta driver (169.09) is not compatible with Windlight. Two things I noticed were no advanced water effects were possible and shiny objects appeared semi-transparent or invisible. The problem was rectified by reinstalling the regular 163.75 driver.

    The beta drivers are being used by a lot of PC gamers specifically for the recently released Crysis.

  100. Arahan Claveau says:

    *forgot to mention I’m using an Nvidia 8800 gts (320mb model).

  101. Twa Hinkle says:

    @95: I am sorry I didn’t make it clearer. My comments about why I hadn’t posted before had nothing to do with this WL thread. It was just a general statement about what I’ve seen in all the forums I’ve looked at and I was not directing it at anyone or any post that was here. And not yours either, when I wrote that I hadn’t even read yours yet.

    And I do agree that the lighting looks different but it is my opinion that different in this case does not mean worse and as far as noobies go, without having used the old renderer I would think that most of them would like the WL version better.

    Like I just said, I wasn’t complaining about anyone giving feedback, just trying to explain why I had never posted anything before. Needless to say, this only reinforces my views about forums in general. They seem to all end up polarizing people to different camps more than they solve anything.

  102. Emondrell Raymaker says:

    Out of curiosity, when is are Nimble clouds going to be added to SL’s Windlight? I saw Windward Mark’s demo on Youtube, and quite frankly I was salivating… Also, it was mentioned as coming by a Linden at an in-world Town Hall.

    I know it might be a bit in the future, but any estimate would be great πŸ˜€

  103. alpha says:

    as ever, what we see on SL is experimental – thats almost like saying ‘its not SUPPOSED’ to all work, how can it? – it’ll always be broke for some and great for others! How many people just seem to hate everything? moan moan moan! so boring. i spend a good amount of time building on SL, as well as an enormous amount of time with 3D in RL – i love the very nature of SL, its one BIG experiment and i totally love it, and yeah, im gonna come on and say YAY! when i see SL rendering beautiful things…i just love to be involved…ah, i just love…not taking things tooooo seriouslyyyyy maybe? πŸ™‚

  104. Simon Nolan says:

    Thanks Pastrami! Good to see WindLight back with more frequent updates. I’m blown away by the way it looks, and am willing to deal with Leopard performance issues temporarily while you sort things out. (If that statement brands me a fanboi, so be it.) Keep the updates coming!

  105. Lauren Caproni says:

    How much Longer is the systm going to be down it has been 5 and hlf hours is it going to be up soon

  106. Tim Eastkew says:

    I’d love to join the windlight love in but it crashes in my machine, when will it be updated to run on all graphics cards?

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  108. DaQueenB Houston says:

    Mmmmmmmmmm Windlight!…..Definately a breath of fresh air!
    WTG LL/Windlight Team!…Wheeewt my hats off to you all!

    Ok on the serious tip, WOW what a fantastic experience…who needs a regular old viewer anyways?…Hurry and get this thing full speed! I say OUT WITH THE OLD…In with Windlight!

  109. O_Owhats this says:

    still can’t log in
    thing says it can verify its self wtf am i suposed 2 do

  110. Damona Rau says:

    And our SIM is complete isolated.
    TPs from and to Endless Death don’t work.
    Support-Ticket? *LOL* Support-Tickets are down and needs more then 7 days for the first look / response.

    And in-worls Lindens can’t (or wont) help.

    SL makes more and more fun… i can live without voice / windlight / het-grid if we then become a stable grid.

    It would be nice, if one from the Lindens could look at my Support-Ticket and resolve this TP-issues, if nobody can TP to our SIM our business will be killed.

  111. U M says:

    What worries me is some people just don`t know what is a bug and what is not with wind light. What randering for one is not like the others. Just because one has a plasm screen monitor doesnt equal you bug reports are anymore stroger then that on a aveage users monitor. Learnign to notice what is a real light bug and what is not has not been learned fromthe last time windlight was out. Look atforum and now this blog. Its a mess full of wond light bug sightings that either do`t make sence or just totally incorrectly assumped.

  112. Fellatione Aabye says:

    dear Linden,

    As asked before could you please disclose the list with names of the Second Life Residents WHO WANTED the latest garbage of Windlight ???? Cause i think you will only see Linden names on it ….

    I honnestly don t think that anyone cared about that sick gimmick … who makes Second Life once again a heap of garbage …

    Second Life was, indeed, WAS more then FUN, but now you are just destroying everything … sorry to say …

    And one quick word of advice … Most residents are sick of your “Thank you for your patience .. cause at Linden Labs we aren t able to fix things … “

  113. Tanna Kohime says:

    I have tried to download the new Windlight onto my MacBook since the update came out. I had no trouble with the first Windlight, but this current update won’t get me to the browser and continually shuts down. Very sad.

  114. I was afraid to try Windlight at first, because of Lag & Crash on the regular viewer. But I was delighted to find it actually runs better for me! It’s been wonderful. I don’t even have the latest graphics adapter or a ton of RAM. As a photographer, I enjoy the control over the atmospheric appearance of the SL environment, and I used multicolored facelights to solve the problem of my pale skin being washed out.

    re: the communication window (which has nothing to do with Windlight anyway) – I disliked it at first, but once I got used to it and went back to the Nicholaz viewer, I hated the old multiple windows.

    One of the best things about Windlight for me is the ability to make presets – I can get all the sliders just right for seasonal, time and weather differences and save each one. Love it! Please don’t make me go back to the old viewer.

  115. Poizon Repine says:

    ive just got one major problem… i downloaded the windlight first look viewer, and when i double click the icon, the loading boxes appear in the centre of the screen, then it just doesnt load anymore, just closes every single time. which i dont understand because the lindens tell us it has the same system requirements as normal sl, which my computer runs perfectly.

  116. magnus says:

    When you guys get around to it, why don’t you figure out why Windlight is a disaster on MAc. Everytme I think I have figured out what makes it crash, something else pops up and flushes the latest theory right down the crapper. If you are going to put it out there, make damn sure it freakin works. I dont want to hear, well this is just beta testing. you keep putting out fixes and not one of them has specifically dealt with the Excessive Mac crashing that is going on. I sure hope you fix this before you go live, this is a disaster and every MAc user on SL is going to pay for your negligence

  117. Gerald Hykova says:

    I’m just wondering if there will be a date announced soon for the fix for the VWR-3258 issue. I really love windlight so far….or at least what I can see out of it. I’ll be using windlight all the time once that bug is fixed

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