Knowledge Base Article of the Week #5: Getting the Most Frames for Your Seconds

A short update for a short week: This edition of the Knowledge Base Article of the Week is a guide to improving region performance. Though this article is mainly geared toward the owners of estates and private regions, it contains advice that every Resident should find thought-provoking, if not downright useful, including:

  • How to monitor region performance
  • Things that can contribute to apparent region slowdown
  • Ways to optimize region performance

Read the whole thing here! (After you click on that link and log in or provide guest credentials, you’ll be whisked directly to the article in question)

Due to this week’s holiday, Jeremy and I will be skipping our regularly-scheduled office hour, but we’ll be back at our usual spot next week; see you then!

This entry was posted in Community, Customer Service, Resident Experience, Tips & Tricks. Bookmark the permalink.

150 Responses to Knowledge Base Article of the Week #5: Getting the Most Frames for Your Seconds

  1. Ann Otoole says:

    nice info. always wondered what “child avatars” were.

    and… here we go again… boom goes logins, login failed.. can’t connect to version manager.

    we are looking for a 24 hour run without issues now. that would be nice.

  2. Rascal Ratelle says:

    Still having log in issues. LOg in issues are NOT resolved.
    Unable to login.

  3. Krimson Gray says:

    I’d love to read the article, but loading the page keeps failing, as well as logins. I’ll be surprised if this message posts.

  4. super happy says:

    really cool, can’t connect to version manager… really amazing

  5. I appear to be unable to log in to the support system either, but I have to say I’ve found Neobokrug Elytis’ post ( Getting the Most out of SL : http://www.sluniverse.com/php/vb/showthread.php?t=2235 ) on SL Universe to be quite useful as well, as far as optimizing frame rates for SL. I only wish there were something more Mac specific.

    I look forward to reading the Linden article as well 🙂

  6. super happy says:

    lol this is just wonderful, i am very happy right now, website doesn’t work, sl won’t log in, really amazing job

  7. Argent Stonecutter says:

    Can’t even connect to secondlife.com/account now.

    I’m getting “can’t connect to version manage”. I don’t even get a manager, just a manage. :p

  8. Sue Saintlouis says:

    Can’t login either. Also, can’t reply to IMs that were forwarded to my email, they come back as undeliverables.

  9. Penguinfan Beck says:

    [UPDATED 20 Nov, 07 @ 2:15 PM PST]

    The clogged download queues and other asset misbehaviors have been cleared by Operations.

    ***

    Umm.. sure about that? It is still messed up guys.. 😦

  10. Addison Leigh says:

    Cant lot log in either, just another repeat mess.

  11. Ravanne Sullivan says:

    Time after time we have problems with SL and the web site that are reported as RESOLVED yet time after time we experience the same problems. The next time someone at LL reports something as being RESOLVED and it si not truly RESOVED they should be fired.

  12. Martini says:

    Of course it’s broken, they said it was all fixed. The moment they say it’s fixed, its broken.

    Actually it’s not fixed when they say, what they mean is “it seems ok and I’m walking away from it”. There’s a difference.

    well its not ok, it’s been bad, and its still bad, this has been a terrible week, which would normally spur on some extra effort to put it right,

    Right. Sigh. I actually looked here to read the article, which I can’t do either.

    *repeat criticism from last 10 posts* etc..

  13. SLurl Link says:

    Good! But before you release such, please find a way to get the best speed out of the http://www.secondlife.com site first. It it becoming slow as hell, seriously!

  14. Susie Preez says:

    My FPS is usually 15-30 on the main client.. although on the firstlook client I have steady FPS of 25-30.

    Nice how SL poof’s everytime I try to work

  15. Strangel Bade says:

    I also can’t login, and the forums are giving a Database Error. I’m still optimistic and kinda like Windlight, tho… just wanna be able to login. ^^;; Good luck, guys!

  16. Ann Otoole says:

    i’m thinking we can write off sl till next year at this point. holidays and all. i really do not expect anyone to be working tomorrow and they will be gone till monday.

    and no i would not want to be the people having to troubleshoot this mess after the multiple database crashes that followed a mass ip address change.

    no wonder there are issues. bad timing on a holiday timeframe. maybe should have left it all alone beginning about a year ago eh?

  17. Rascal Ratelle says:

    Unable to log into SL.
    Unable to load support portal page. Unable to load home page of SL.com.

  18. reddawnbade says:

    Gee, thanks – an article on how to improve region performance while SL sucks @ss. Please. I got a solution – hire somebody, anybody, that can actual run an IT shop. This is getting old fast – specifically all the RESOLVED posts when anyone in-world can tell you they are NOT resolved.

  19. Rascal Ratelle says:

    Unable to navigate the SL web-site because of this.

  20. GRRR I Can’t get on to second life… Nor can I get to the support portal and nope, I can’t even get a hold of anyone in Concierge!!!!!!! And no I can not even visit http://www.secondlife.com looks like things are borked!

  21. Xingyun says:

    has anyone been able to log in today? tried this morning & now, no sl & can’t open support. any time line for real resolution?

  22. super happy says:

    apparently, this software doesn’t work yet… maybe should start working on it hmm… i’m going back to icq

  23. Demeter Slade says:

    Yeah. The moment you declare one Issue resolved the same issue in another form happens…. People this is emberassing sorry to say so. Btw. The DL que didn’t get better. It got worse. Payments where impossible. And the topping is as Said that i can’t log in now anymore…

  24. Aquarius Paravane says:

    I got logged out and now I can’t log in again.
    Before I was logged out, I could not take items that I was working on into inventory.
    I can’t get onto secondlife.com to contact support.
    And I’m leaving this message here because comments are closed on the relevant blog items that are supposed to be [Resolved].
    It would help to have a blog post permanently open where people can report issues like this.

  25. super happy says:

    are there any actual programmers working on second life nowadays or are they all just investors and rich morons who think they are creative ? hmm

  26. Milo Bellow says:

    Is This LLs Definition Of Irony? :O

  27. Isabeau Imako says:

    Isn’t it Thanksgiving in the US? Aren’t you all suppose to be thankful and what not? Just imagine having to work during the holidays AND getting booed at. For everyone else, rant on… 🙂 hehe

  28. Xingyun says:

    would the removal of voice cause more stability. i know i keep it turned off on my plots of land. people should type chat, the way god intended it. have a great thanksgivng & hope it’s better by then!

  29. super happy says:

    lol home page is now “unavailable” ! we are the last people able to do anything “in” second life by using this page ! woooow ! is second life dead for good ? weren’t we all waiting for that after all ? 🙂

  30. Pansy Peccable says:

    Oh, no… the troubles are NOT resolved. Not by a long shot. I can’t log in, can’t move to another region, and my bandwidth meter is down to nothing.

    Have you at LL ever heard of ITIL? I can come work for you and implement it. It is a framwork, but the basic principle is SERVICE DELIVERY. Service delivery bourn on wings of service management.

    Your “background maintenance” smacks of fiddling with the production system – but under ITIL, you would always have a TESTED backout plan.

    You need to stop fiddling, and hire someone who knows what she’s doing.

  31. Ann Otoole says:

    i’ve been in the entertainment business for around 15 years now. there are no holidays in the entertainment business. if people working for LL wanted holidays off they should have looked outside the entertainment sector. tough cookies its 24*7 all year long.

  32. Hypatia Callisto says:

    I hate to post offtopic, but this is the only part of the website I can reach, aside from Jira. I can’t even get to the support portal to report a problem. Can’t open a chat session in world, can’t login a second account to verify a bug I was filing in Jira for Windlight fully.

  33. Weed says:

    yet another article i’d love to read, if only the link worked, instead of failing to display and leaving me with a blank screen, again — and it looks like i’m not the only one (my RL location is SE England) — the performance of the SL website is probably losing LL more than 50% of its potential new customers (and judging by the extent of my own frustration, maybe some of its older ones) — here is where they come to check out what SL is all about, and SL will be judged primarily on the basis of how quickly web pages download and how effective its internal links are — my guess is that this is a major factor in the slowing down of SL population growth — if the SL website belonged to one of my net clients i’d tell them that until they’d sorted out access problems their net presence was, if not a lost cause, then certainly an uphill battle — SL itself is wonderful and it’s more faithful members do a great job in publicising it, but the official ‘packaging’ gives out the message “AVOID!” — how frustrating 😦

  34. mac says:

    ok totally off topic great all clued up on lag.. would be nice to have a sl to use, log in not happening more L$ flowing down the pan and hay time to loose the subscription not throwing money away there too , this is a ongoing thing now.. And anyone wants to tell me to stop moaning in a word “NO”

  35. Cai says:

    i really wonder wat they do with the millions of $$$ profits they make cause i can saftly say my 2 years in sl ive not seen any improvments i have only seen things get worse and worse and the same dam problems we had 2 years ago constanyl cropping up week in week it , so lindens wat do u do with the millions of $$$ profit u make? buy a new house for yourself? a car? new tv? some whores? a holiday? …

    grr i get tired of this crap

  36. Martini says:

    “Operations teams at the Lab and the co-location facility are working to address the DNS failures which are inhibiting logins and Website access.

    Region crossings (both direct and TP) are also failing in world.

    We’ll update as we get more info.”

    well……a) Its a lot more than that, a whole lot more.

    b) Why not open comments on THAT post rather than leave this as the only active place for complaint?

    I’m getting a little tired of the “negative” entries being locked to comment. Do you think this will stop them happening? This page is a perfect example of why that is a mistake.

    As I said earlier I came here to read and comment about the article at the leading post.

    I’m only part way through my cryptology degree, so I cant even use the jira, if that’s up :p

  37. Milo Bellow says:

    Isnt It Time LL Stopped Pretending That The Majority Of SL Residents Are American And Sympathise And Share The Same Culture And Holidays?
    They Aint And They Dont.
    This Is NOT A Virtual World Of Understanding Americans Busying Themselves With Their Recent Tradition.
    This Is A Virtual World Of People From All Over The Real World, The Majority Of Whom Just Want To Log Into Second Life As Usual.
    Since WHEN Did The Minority Rule? 😦

  38. shawnwirtz tiki says:

    The sl breaks in many ways every time our store starts getting busy our sales are down over 50 percent this past week every time it starts to run smooth again within an hour sl starts borking again other stores are down badly this week usually we do great this time of year around holidays but this week has been horrible

  39. TheBlack Box says:

    Hooray … i could log in.
    But it doesnt help much … seems like pretty much nothing is working.
    Asset-Server are now completly unreachable. Map doesnt work. L$ not showing. Friend online not sowing. Groups are down …

  40. Joshua Philgarlic says:

    I think this summer was my best time in SL. Why? Perhaps ’cause most of the Lindens enjoyed their holidays??

    Sorry, there are three “eras” since I joined SL in january…
    1. Winter and spring: the Viewer crashed 2 times per hour, lags all arround, nothing worked as expacted…
    2. Summer: It was really a big time for me! Most issues have been fixed, lags have been bearable… it was FUN!
    3. Fall and winter: almost the same bugs as 1.!! But now I’m a little but older, gained more experience and I’ve my bussiness…

    Dear Lindens, it really sucks to watch what you’re doing in the last few months! Stop adding new features – build a quality management!!!!!

  41. Please please please fix the problems in SL of late !

    This is getting beyond a joke.

    Many of us have too much invested here to pack up and go elsewhere.

  42. Cai says:

    do they really care about us ? come on honestly there raking the cash in everyone gets paid there ragardless of if its borked or not, and they know full well they still be making the money when its borked, they will still recieve the tiers and subscritions fees where does it all go … seems it aint going into developments, do we ever get any kind of compensation? NEVER ! blah u cant use this place for buissness or pleasure these days its just stressfull.

  43. Eurydice says:

    FPS? I can’t even log in!
    And closing comments on the blog posts concerning these constant meltdowns is incredibly poor form.

  44. Fox Nadir says:

    OK this is begining to annoy people, its about time that you stopped patching the problems and actulay took the code back to source and FIXED the problem. A patch is not a fix its a little indipendant program that does a work around on a problem, Patch on top of patch on top of patch leads to these problems that are affecting the whole grid

    You have too many patches and until the problems are actulat Addressed and fixed the product will remain as is. Seriously even Mircosoft would try selling a product as buggy as this to the public.

    Yes Windlight looks cool, but before you impliment it wouldnt it be best to actulay address the problems that really need fixing instead of adding another patch and forgtting about them.

    Teleports that Crash you
    Group IM’s that dont work
    Personal IM’s that dont work
    LAG due to delay caused by too many patches running ona bugged code
    Greifers who seem to be able to totaly bypass any meassures you put in place
    The List is endless

    Please LL get some one who actulay knows what they are doing from theh users point of view some of your staff couldnt organise a party in a Brewery. Oh yess they can pull out and speak in fancy terms and add features that would really look and work best on a stable fixed client.

    But they dont seem to understand that the client cant take an endless amount of patches sooner or later its going to fail big time as the increase in down time shows the client needs not another new patch and feater squeezed into it but a complete back to souce code overhaul

  45. Hiroaki Rhino says:

    At least give us some apologies!
    These things are really causing inconvenience for us customers!
    Of all the MMORPGs I have played in the past this is the only company that never apologize for the connection failures!

  46. cutflower Oh says:

    If I cant login, do I get my money back?

  47. Cai says:

    @48 u are kidding rite?

  48. HealthStar says:

    Could we possibly quit slapping _resolved_ on issues when they are galringly NOT resolved, these issues have been here for three weeks now, they only have been getting worse every day, apparently today is the cumulation of them. I dread what is to come over the next few, since you guys seem to think everything is resolved and running smoothly right now. If the failed TP’s, transactions, server requests, crashes, image load failures, failure to save scripts and notecards, objects returned to sim, ruthed, attachments and inventory not available for loading is what LL considers a grid with all of its issues _resolved_ i would hate to see your idea of a poorly running grid with _unresolved_ problems.

  49. Cai says:

    this is reason i do not pay for this kinda of service … ive been wanting to for so long but untill i see a stable grid i will remain a free account….

  50. Mikhail Obscure says:

    Closing the blog you just posted on DNS failure, to comments is just unacceptable!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  51. cutflower Oh says:

    How can a basic website go down continually

    I can understand inworld server issues but hang on !!!

  52. Cai says:

    wow well its logged in, but kinda pointless i cant tp anywhere im ruthed money is loading… i amyaswell just log out again

  53. sirhc DeSantis says:

    yep rapidly reaching the point where i sell up and just keep my first land to play on (yes i remember that). I love the place I love the people i’ve met but even I have a breaking point. Not with client side – been fine for me. but total unavailability? one straw too far. its getting time to renew anyway and i’ve been thinking

  54. Ravanne Sullivan says:

    39 Milo Bellow Says:

    November 20th, 2007 at 5:38 PM PST
    Isnt It Time LL Stopped Pretending That The Majority Of SL Residents Are American And Sympathise And Share The Same Culture And Holidays?

    LL is a US company located in the US and as such observes US holidays and hours. If it was a French comany located in France it would observe French holidays and hours. Get over it.

    Of course SL is so screwed up lately it is observing no hours.

    /me shrugs

  55. march Korda says:

    I have recorded periodically the performance information on a part of SIM into my data base.
    However, information cannot be got when SIM is downed.
    I think whether the information “it is downed” will also be got.lol.

  56. Milo Bellow says:

    56 Ravanne Sullivan Says:

    “LL is a US company located in the US and as such observes US holidays and hours. If it was a French comany located in France it would observe French holidays and hours. Get over it.”

    The Hours Of Work And Hours Of Holidays Are NOT Written In Stone.
    Does American TV, Radio, Public Transport, Sports, Theatre Etc Shut Down Over Thanksgiving? NO

    Like 33 Anne Otoole Says:

    “i’ve been in the entertainment business for around 15 years now. there are no holidays in the entertainment business. if people working for LL wanted holidays off they should have looked outside the entertainment sector. tough cookies its 24*7 all year long.”

    Now, I Think You Have Something To “Get Over” =P

  57. Theta Marseille says:

    Resolved? are you kidding?

    I can’t log in for 3 days now…is LL listening? My ticket in support portal is pointless, can’t access that.
    I live in Asia, and its seems to me that LL is not bothered if the problem in its ENTIRETY is SOLVED.

  58. Davkas Ayres says:

    Well,

    Im glad im not paying for this. I would really like to become a premium user, but there is no chance in hell while this is going off.

    I come from Derbyshire, England (East Midlands) and its not much better here. Lag is a issue that i can put at the back of my mind, only on a 2mb connection with 288k upload so i dont expect much.

    What i do expect is to log into my favorite game and sort my mates club out for him.

    LL – a word of advice. SORT IT OUT!

    Your gonna start loosing customers.

  59. Ravanne Sullivan says:

    58 Milo Bellow Says:
    The Hours Of Work And Hours Of Holidays Are NOT Written In Stone.
    Does American TV, Radio, Public Transport, Sports, Theatre Etc Shut Down Over Thanksgiving? NO

    And what does the schedules that all those others keep have to do with it? And all of those do indeed run a different schedule on holidys, The will make special provisions and pay special rates to tehir employees to de on the jobs during normal holiday times

  60. NicklessNick says:

    Log-in problems resolved? Please … I can’t log in now … the LAST time I logged in, it was rather pointless (due to the extreme lag and inability to TP anywhere).
    Who created this bloatware? Patch on top of patch, nothing ever resolved, every upgrade an actual DOWNGRADE …

  61. Davkas Ayres says:

    We value free expression. However, stuff that’s off-topic, abusive, or otherwise busts the rules will be removed without comment.

    However, stuff that’s off-topic, abusive, or otherwise busts the rules

    Busts the rules?

    Shouldnt that be but the rules?

    Christs sake, its 2:20am here and even i can spell better than that.

  62. Milo Bellow says:

    @61

    Hmmm, By The Amount Of Typos I’d Say You Rushed That Reply.
    Um.
    Your Point Is?

    MY Point Still Stands.

    Please Dont Use The Blog For Petty Trolling =P

  63. Milo Bellow says:

    @63

    That’s “busts” As In “breaks” Davkas,
    Yet Another Example Of Americanisms Only Confusing The Majority Of SL Residents.

    =P

  64. Hiroaki Rhino says:

    This is not trolling, we are ranting!

  65. hatheadrickenbacker says:

    Ironic that the best methods for improving your SL experience are to minimize your use of its features.

  66. Chica Indigo says:

    I’m not going to add to all the negative feedback here…cause it is all TRUE so is not necessary to say more. This last month SL has been very low performance. You can see at my blog all the crazy things that happened to me and my friends ( http://www.chicaindigo.blogspot.com/ ) …But either way I wanted to add something possitive to all this…HAPPY THANKSGIVING!!! Hope you all guys at LL have a great holiday weekend and that you come back refresehed and ready to make SL a better place for us…PLEASE 🙂

  67. Marie Pera says:

    Just a thought…but instead of constant failures and collapses, why not just shut down, purchase hardware and repair. Otherwise….I’m sure you’re keeping the rubberband market happy. 😉

  68. U M says:

    I don`t do THANKSGIVING!!! But HAPPY THANKSGIVING!!! LL 🙂

  69. sirhc DeSantis says:

    and as we are so off topic – why does my partners arse look like a yanks – ie fat?

  70. Eclaire Looming says:

    Where is free speech in SL if only certain blogs allow comments in response?

  71. Ravanne Sullivan says:

    UPDATE 6:69PM PST]

    As the grid continues to settle there are still services and regions not up to speed. Purchases may be risky right now, as well as deeding land. Teleporting and landing points may not be working properly. We appreciate your patience while our engineers work to resolve these issues.

    6:69 PM?!?

  72. Ann Otoole says:

    attempt to rez an object failed. object missing from database.

    folks, sl is questionable at best. recommend you find something better to do with your time for the foreseeable future because sl is simply not a viable platform for anything except monetary losses right now.

  73. sirhc DeSantis says:

    erm hate to agree with Anne # 71 but shes right. can’t even strip letalone redress

  74. U M says:

    “56 Ravanne Sullivan Says:

    November 20th, 2007 at 6:02 PM PST
    39 Milo Bellow Says:

    November 20th, 2007 at 5:38 PM PST
    Isnt It Time LL Stopped Pretending That The Majority Of SL Residents Are American And Sympathise And Share The Same Culture And Holidays?

    LL is a US ”

    No the new trend is they have more users then the UK. Well we all know there is way more users UK then Japan. But Shhhhhhhhh don`t tell that to the LLL ( linden Lab Liers ).

  75. mimi says:

    Even the article referred to in the blog doesn’t work…

  76. Blinders Off says:

    Now may we debunk the knowledge base? ; )

    “Content in Second Life isn’t pre-rendered. It’s created on the fly and updated constantly by countless individual users every second of every day while being fed to your computer through the internet. All of these factors make Second Life a much more dynamic, complicated world to render, which results in a framerate that’s nominally lower than a top-of-the-line first-person shooter. ”

    For the individual customer, SL is not constantly updating content for thousands of users every second of every day. The only content being updated is that within the current visible sim range (and the sim being inhabited of course). If no one is updating content, the only content being updated are scripted objects, moving objects and the avatar itself. So no, content is not likely being massively updated every second. For the most part, content is CACHED on the hard drive, which means that if SL used efficient graphics rendering routines, it would be just as fast as that nifty first person shooter. It doesn’t… so it isn’t. This “user generated content” is a nice fairy tale to try to shove off lag blame to other areas… but it’s not factual (at least not in most cases).

    “Big prims greater than 10 m x 10 m can slow down viewer FPS.”

    Technically speaking, is Linden Lab saying that the amount of graphics processor time to render a 30x20x1 single-prim floor is more than it would take to render six 10x10x1 prims? (which is what it would take to make a 30×20 floor using 10m cubes). If I’m not mistaken, the draw calculations of a graphics card is exactly the same for a basic prim, no matter what the size of the prim (in other words, it takes just as much time for a graphics card to render a 1×1 cube as it does a 3×3 cube. Same number of vertices and all…). So unless I’m mistaken about the way SL internall handles graphics, it should take the same amount of time to render a 20×20 cube as it does to render a 5×5 cube. Or if not, it almost certainly takes less time than it would take to render eight 10x10x10 cubes (it would take 8 10x10s to equal the space occupied by one single 20x20x20 prim).

    “Reducing the number of prims your region uses will increase your region’s performance. Regions are currently limited to 15,000 prims.”

    While yes, this will improve sim performance, reduction of prims would be absolutely unnecessary if the servers were running properly. While it is true that “An empty sim is a fast sim”… who wants to pay $295 a month for an empty sim?

    It is possible for a sim designer to so overburden a sim that it just plain lags. No doubt about it. But when experienced sim designers set up a sim that is underpopulated by 6000 prims, runs at between 10 and 14 TFT, is script controlled and physics controlled, and it STILL lags… whose fault is that?

    It’s been said before LL. Instead of putting the burden of speeding up sims on the users… tackle that burden yourselves by improving service. If the system foundation worked correctly, there would be few if any lag issues.

    Instead of playing games with eye candy like sculpties and flexis (which just added FURTHER lag to the system) and Windlight (which is knocking some people offline)… why not spend that time fixing the buggy platform so that people don’t have all the lag in the first place. Debug your system, fix the memory leaks, get the asset servers working so that people can CHAT with some reliability, then we’ll talk customers adjusting their sims. But I’d recommend Linden Lab spending less time telling us what we can do on our end to help hide your systems inefficiencies, and instead fix the problems themselves. That’s why you’re paid the big bucks.

  77. Tegg B says:

    Milo Bellow Says:

    November 20th, 2007 at 5:38 PM PST
    Isnt It Time LL Stopped Pretending That The Majority Of SL Residents Are American And Sympathise And Share The Same Culture And Holidays?
    They Aint And They Dont.
    This Is NOT A Virtual World Of Understanding Americans Busying Themselves With Their Recent Tradition.
    This Is A Virtual World Of People From All Over The Real World, The Majority Of Whom Just Want To Log Into Second Life As Usual.
    Since WHEN Did The Minority Rule?

    The Minority owns the car, it leaves the driveway when the minority wants it to, you can catch a lift then, don’t like it? Get your own car or walk……………………….

  78. Jack Hathor says:

    DNS errors, seems this is all from last week reassigning ip addresses.

  79. Garmin Kawaguichi says:

    For who this page was written?
    Most of the solutions are done by the Region/Estate menu. Since the Mainland users have not access to this menu and since there is only one estate manager by Island, and since Island owners can have several islands this page concerns less people than the number of islands !!!
    Also note that the first problem of a land owner is not to reduce the number of agents on their land, but how to keep agents on their land more than an hour without a crash.
    The same problem with Windlight (the Light without the Wind) : who is concerned, who can use a so beautiful display if he cannot log in?

  80. Garmin Kawaguichi says:

    He he, when I was writing the #81, another region crash !!!

  81. U M says:

    In world now, not problems really. LAg is not as bad it was 24 hours ago. Happy infact.

  82. Pingback: The Grid Live » Second Life News for November 21, 2007

  83. Michael Bosen says:

    hey thanks for working so hard to get it back and running agian :))

  84. aladinsane zona says:

    i thought april fools day was over, what a joke we pay for a service that cannot be operatinal lag seems to be the issue , you seem to take away our privelegs im glad you guys dont run our country , we would be in a depression ,

  85. V Petrov says:

    When will we be able to use SL a single week, just a single week, WITHOUT problems? Am I asking too much???

  86. Milo Bellow says:

    @79 Tegg B Says:

    “The Minority owns the car, it leaves the driveway when the minority wants it to, you can catch a lift then, don’t like it? Get your own car or walk……………………….”

    The Minority May Well Own The Car But That Doesnt Make It Any Less A Taxi…

    Lift Those Blinkers And Look Up And Down The Road, Everyone Has Cars Now…

    Id Rather Walk Than Share A Ride With You =P

    Etc…

  87. Pat Hartono says:

    I know that this isn’t “on topic” here, but I need to vent. The second life experience continues to deteriorate. As I approach my first year anniversary of joining, I realize that I would miss the second life I came to love, but that I will jump immediately to another, more stable, virtual world as soon as possible.

    If there are more than 10 people in a sim, the lag makes everything impossible. I crash 90% of the time when trying to go home. Inventory fails to load. Group discussions make long-distance satellite phone conversations seem speedy in comparison. And the only way we can use the new ‘improvements’, like windlight, is to cut our graphics setting so low as to make them worthless.

    Second life was a wonderful concept, too bad there isn’t any adult supervision.

  88. Borky Grid says:

    sl hp down for me (maintenance it says) only blog and a few others available…

    But it worked for almost 10 hrs in a row now…I am so excited

  89. richard says:

    (nymber 89) i’m laughing no adult supervision, i think they should let ibm take over they cant do any worst.

  90. ONE PO'd RESIDENT says:

    *gives lindens the dirtiest look ever* hope ur turkey is dry and taste like rotten fish after this past month of crap

  91. Bobo Decosta says:

    Just read the article and saw that my sim is fine. Reading the article I also got reminded of the poor prim and avatar limit. It’s really time to up these limits dramatically. Having parties only be able to have maximum 40 avatars on your sim is starting to become unacceptable. I work a lot with real life musicians and I don’t even bother to persuade them to play for about 40 people at max. I really would like to see an avatar limit of 250 avatars with no lag what so ever. I guess this is hardware related so i’m trying to follow Moore’s law 🙂

  92. Demeter Slade says:

    Thanks. Down again.
    The Second first resolved and then again unresolved Issue.
    *just imagines a just woken up network tecnica walking with his coffe mug who trip over some server Connections*
    Anyhow. It’s really sad to see that again nothing was resolved or just so badly fixed it would break. this is like threating ship leaks with bandages. Wait till it is so soaked that it falls off agian…

  93. Lara Croft says:

    Just to say I have been on SL at last today and it was pretty bad. So slow to rezz in some places – freezes (which i have never had before) – rezzing items not appearing.

    Yesterday was dreadful – regions crashing almost every time I joined them! (Maybe it’s MY fault) – being logged OUT of regions constantly – unable to dance – animations not loading – hair going overboard and attachments missing – diving into the ground (caused by too many avatars in a region) – oh dear, Well I am very persistent and will continue but as it takes me about an hour just to do any kind of building – I get tired quickly.

    I do hope something can be done to sort out alll these user experience problems – I am a Mac person and I don’t thinnk it is my machine.

    Thanks to Torley for very good YouTube video about new search – fabulous stuff and I can’t wait to try it. But where does my linden balance go now as new search box takes up top right menu bar space — and there were bars for packet loss and Bandwidth too.

    Sorry to post all this here but everything is closed above and I needed to say something.

  94. Damona Rau says:

    It’s really time to look at other 3D communities.
    The most services are down, i think it’s better to post “Ok, we have learned, SL is switched off”

    Hit the big red “OFF”-Button, you will never learn to make SL stable. I have nor more patience i have enough from further lies. Any word you said “SL becomes more stable” is a lie, SL goes worse and worse.

    At last your article about SIM-Performance. First you say “SIM FPS will be always 45 FPS” now you turn back and tell us “Oh, SIM FPS between 35 and 43 is fine” – for whom? If the SIM FPS slows down under 40, you have horrible lag. Change your concept, you earn enough money with the setup fees, put 1 Simulator on one dualcore.

    My deadline is 30. November. Is SL still worse like the past month, i’m giving up with SL.

  95. Bobo Decosta says:

    Why is there no “edit your reply?” I’m taking now someone else his spot to reply but anyway I forgot to mention that if you compare increasing figures of new members over the years and the avatar limit on sims something doesn’t add up.

    As second life should grow to a huge community it’s very weird to lock up people in cubes of about 40 people. Taking all the eyecandy away you only are left with tiny chat rooms like we saw them at the end of the 90’s. If you want second life to grow to a huge and tight community you should strive towards real life boundaries. I know getting thousands of avatars together is still far of but 40???? (I say 40 because my sim is limited to 40 av and gets unstable when I reach that limit) If the avatar limit would reach an acceptable 250 av we still would be able to put up huge events putting 4 sims together but having to pay tier for 4 sims only be able to support up to about 100 avatars is starting to get ridiculous.

  96. mimi says:

    i’d say they bring down the avatar limit to 5 since thats all the system is able to handle..

    lots of customers payed for items they never received yesterday.. this ALWAYS happens when theres lots of problems… its a shame this BUG has been there for OVER HALF A YEAR AND ITS STILL NOT FIXED. people pay for items and lose money! you could at least say sorry
    but who cares.. as long as we get fance features we never wanted. who cares about a new search or windlight now?

  97. Lily says:

    SL is still SOOOOOO SLOW !!! It has been like this for 2 weeks now !!! And logging in takes minutes !

  98. Troy says:

    Im reading this and ok i find LL Full of crap. SL fails and so dose there support. hello LL get a damn clue the support for SL its not suppose to drop dead at the same time. put the support on a seprate server on a seprate provider 100% away from anything that bring it down along with the grid.

    Your all hell bent on makeing money and being nothing but cheap @ss’

    I find it stupid when there something wrong and needs support that issue effects support. i mean who is runing SL? Bush!?

    Fire Everybody and get real staff. i mean i could do a better job then this. but you clowns wont call back when i send a app.

    i mean try reading what the people saying they have to goto blog that have nothing to do with the issue where the comment are on to get there word out. well i guess that means your nothing but cheap morons. make support separate so it dont come down like a ton of brick when the SL Grid Flat lines.

  99. HeeLan Beattie says:

    LOL, this is what I found when I tried to log in to the support pages:

    “Our support portal is currently having technical problems. If you only need to view knowledge base articles, please log in as a guest. If you need to submit a ticket, please try again later (you will need to reload the page). ”

    When will we see a [RESOLVED] on this one, and will it be true?
    Are you Linden guys gonna patch this one as well?

  100. Blinders Off says:

    @89 Loved that post. Right on the button.

    Linden Lab, are you reading these posts? Do you see the overall attitude and opinions here? Now, do you think these are just a bunch of disgruntled nitwits… or are you aware of the fact that these people are voicing the general opinion regarding Second Life right now. And that being the case, how long before Linden Lab gets a clue?

    At one time a private island could operate at 600fps+. Now we’re at 45. At one time group chat worked flawlessly. Now it is continually flawed. It appears LL can’t even get simple chat right. You call this progress?

    Hey, when you do things right, I compliment you. I only bust your chops when it’s deserved.

    The people above are your best and strongest asset: honest customer feedback. So stop it with the fancy eye-candy toys that just add more and more lag to your system. If you think you are going to be without competition forever, you are grossly mistaken. Fix your platform… or you will eventually lose your platform.

  101. Troy says:

    pft on most there RESOLVED i wouldnt be surpised if i see on one blog with the “RE-RE-RE-RE-RE-RE-RESOLVED” lol

  102. Damona Rau says:

    “[8:39 AM PST] Network Failure Issues in Second Life have been resolved. Thank you for your patience.”

    What is resolved? The empty coffee can? Who pays the next pizza or other junkfood?

    TPs and IMs down, Group-IMs down, Group-Notices down – i think someone brains are down too.

    As next: Simulators are designed for 15.000 prims and 100 ppl, make the SIMs stable now! It can’t be that a SIM with 20-30 ppl and 11.000 used prims looks like a comic strip in slowmotion. Don’t tell us a SIM is “fine” and “healthy” with less then 43 FPS.

    And PLEASE use a Database, i mean, a real database and not this Websitedatabase called mySQL. Use Oracle, or if you don’t want pay licences, use postgreSQL, this has the same performance and usability like Oracle.

  103. Doris Haller says:

    ONE PO’d RESIDENT said:
    “*gives lindens the dirtiest look ever* hope ur turkey is dry and taste like rotten fish after this past month of crap”

    ROFL.. A person with humor!! SL is the most fun if you don’t log in at the moment.

    Does anybody remember that Open Letter and draws a balance?
    Since I started,
    – sculpties came,
    – voice came (I think most did not want nor use it),
    – age verification was discussed and is still open
    – windlight was postponed and came back now
    – new search function was started.

    The Open Letter came something in between that, and LL promised to concentrate on stability.

    Now, stability is even worse and so is performance. Maybe it would be better if LL would NOT concentrate on it?

    personally, I started as a free account to test if i like it. I like it, but I can’t pay for this service. In fact, I consider to abandon SL and do something else… seems to me as if this failed.

  104. pantaiputih korobase says:

    what I experienced yesterday was that I only can log in when I turn off my antivirus firewall COMPLETELY – is this the intention of LL??? can not be, or? everyone, everything, spyware, adware etc etc can intrude when I switch off my antivirus firewall.
    LL, pls listen to your customers, it seems you are on a completely wrong journey currently.
    Yes, I love windlight, may be I even could appreciate voice, BUT – if the HARDWARE needs to be developed first in the future that your game is usable for the average PC or laptop owner, you are on the worng track.
    I truelly understand that an ever changing environment (changing landscapes, creating objects, deleting objects, dressing, undressing, taking attachments on or off) is a challenge for any system and I really appreciate the chance to be able to be creative 60 times a minute, BUT the experience would be better if your equpement would support your busines concept.

    best regards,
    pantai

  105. pantaiputih korobase says:

    btw, I can NOT login

  106. Troy says:

    let it sit for a few minutes. its just being slow. thats how mine is. plus its crashing allot for me. they cant make up there mind. my other video card it dont crash but slow as hell. i put my ATI RADEON 9800 In which they have down is good for SL on there system req i get awsome FPS but crashes allot.

  107. Lily says:

    Since about 2 weeks, textures rez very slowly. They stay grey for about 2 minutes and then finally are there. It never was like this, so in the past week something must have changed. And indeed, logins are very very slow. But not only today (although it is on blog as an issue now), it has been like this for a acouple of days. There should be a deeper problem to all of this. I am using SL for over a year now (am a heavy user, several hours per day online), and I really think something is wrong with texture loading. Even in empty sims, with no lag, everything stays grey for a few minutes. And in large groups, group IMs are still down. It has been like this for week. This is very, very annoying. We cannot reach our group members. If you LL read this, please pay attention to these issues.

  108. Borky Grid says:

    Why is half my sim getting kicked just now? Thought you only have login issues as always?

    I don´t find a suitable insult for you folks …

    You Lindens!

    Thank god there is football on telly tonite

  109. T. Thibedeau says:

    I’m new on SL and on the basic account, I would like to upgrade but not while it’s this bad. I can’t get logged on, at all tonight, I get logged out, the lag is terrible. I am checking out other online communities. If this isn’t resolved I will leave. Anyone out there? LL?

  110. Amanda Wiles says:

    Logins very slow, if working at all! TP sometimes works 8 out of 10 times it don’t work at all. Spent most of last night stuck on my land.
    Fed up seeing either my shoes or my Hair stuck on my butt.

    And we pay good money for this!

    Come on Lindens why dont you spend some of our money on getting good equipment and software that works. Now we are told its going to take 5 hours to fix.

    WONDERFULL

  111. Aegis Darkstone says:

    Glad I’m not a paying customer. As a freebie, SL is ok, but I would never pay for any online service with as many outages as this.

  112. Weed says:

    @96 Damona Rau Says: “Is SL still worse like the past month, i’m giving up with SL.”

    @105 Doris Haller Says: “I consider to abandon SL and do something else…

    are there any reliable alternatives to SL? (apart from RL)

  113. 1. logins fail 5 out of 6 tries.
    2. tp’s fail alot more than they work.
    3. Inventories failing to load.
    4. Logins failing Severly today.
    5. Object edits and Object Builds not working
    6. Lag is insane
    7. And today horrific slowdowns!
    BUT HEY WE HAVE WINDLIGHT YIPEEEEEE!
    Grumbles and limps back into the PRETTY SUNSET!

  114. Ric Mollor says:

    @114

    For an incomplete list of other social virtual worlds click on my name. None are *exactly* like SL but all have different strengths and weaknesses.

    And none that I know of have the consistant technical problems of SL. And no, it’s not beause SL is so ‘cutting edge’. There are 3 differerent MMORPGs now that are surpassing one million users online at the same time. That’s like, ummm, 20 times as many as the 50,000 that SL hits.

    Another list of worlds here.
    http://www.virtualworldsreview.com/info/categories.shtml

    Happy hunting!

  115. Eclaire Looming says:

    SL right now appears headed for an unmitigated disaster over the Thanksgiving weekend in the US. Who is the ‘chief technology officer’ of SL? Let him speak NOW to us honestly, specifically and in Plain English about (1) the realistic possibilities for the next few days (2) the near term of December and (3) the longer term if there is one.

  116. Redmoonblade says:

    Epic fail in MY secondlife?

  117. pantaiputih korobase says:

    Second Life Login Issues
    Wednesday, November 21st, 2007 at 10:17 AM PST by: rheyalinden

    comments are closed…………….

  118. ONE PO'd RESIDENT says:

    this is SICK geeez already how many damn problems are we gonna have we need STABILITY NOW our business are failing WE ARE LOSING MONEY LINDENS AND YOU WILL TOO SOON!!

  119. pantaiputih korobase says:

    [11:04 AM PST] [Update] The Ops Team estimates that the Login Issue resolution may take up to 5 hours. We sincerely apologize for any inconveniences these issues have caused.

    but we the LL do not pay back outages 🙂

  120. Miss Dastardly says:

    I registered for Basic Account on 19 Nov and still have no been able to log in to use this software. At first thought it was only my pc now I see everyone has problems. Is it always like this? Ric, I will look at the list of other worlds thank you.

  121. Pat Hartono says:

    @ 116

    Thank you for the list of other virtual worlds. I fear for the loss of this one, which I dearly love. But in case any linden lab employees are listening, please understand the frustration and anger that exists. After finally getting in world last night, the topic was the same in every place I went — people are simply worn out with the continuing and unresolved problems. They may not all be posting here, but they are angry. Many have left for other worlds, and many of us will be joining them soon. This is not a decision that any of us will make without a great deal of sadness, but these problems have become unacceptable.

  122. Totally Hopeless says:

    …and if any of you thought, these so called office hours inworld have anything meaningful as a result or any meaningful things are discussed at all, then please follow this link to see a transscript of one of these.

    I am totally shocked…Sounds like a bunch of midlife cruised people are meeting in the barber shop to discuss the latest gossip.

    http://secondthoughts.typepad.com/second_thoughts/2007/11/all-paths-to-be.html

    It is time to increase pressure on LL, so they get some pros in or sell sl to a company

  123. Dytska Vieria says:

    It would be nice if Get Top Scripts were an option for Mainland sims as well…

  124. smokin Anderton says:

    @78 Blinders…

    Exactly the kind of point people should be making here, thank you.

    In 3d games, the objects and characters are 3d meshes, with textures applied to them, similar to SL. There IS some optimisation, but thats only on the maps themselves, e.g. the regions in SL.

    As for user-generated content, I take it the Lindens never heard of Garry’s Mod (gmod), the Half-Life 2 sandbox. Being on a gmod server would be similar to being in a SL region, but on gmod I get framerates of 20-150 fps…. on SL, I normally get from 11 up to 24 – today at one stage they were in the high 30s, but I was on a quiet region, and it was still a fluke.

    Oh, as for all the articles on improviing framerates, the different between lowest and highest graphical settings makes a 0-1 difference in framerates!!!

    Given that the framerates vary this much… and this is early in the morning, GMT, when most of the U.S. is asleep and a lot of regions are empty, leads me to believe that something is SERIOUSLY wrong somewhere.

    If it’s a dying machine and it needs to be swapped out, then do it. At this stage we’d all rather put up with a few hours downtime knowing that things will be fixed than this continuing situation.

    P.S. I’m extra ticked off cuz all this started only a few days after I signed up for a premium account for this quarter…. aaargh!!!

  125. smokin Anderton says:

    hmmm…. there s no edit….

    @126, I actually get from 50-150 fps on a gmod server… with hundreds of objects.

  126. Ann Otoole says:

    obviously the concept of changing 2000 ip addresses should be a last resort option given the subtle nuances of internet backbone router caching eh?

    vent away. nobody is listening. except angry customers.

  127. Blinders Off says:

    @116 That is a great list. Would love to see links for them all.

    THERE of course has always been a direct competitor to SL, and some people like it better (although it’s not as versatile). KANEVA is an interesting 3-D chat that has some building, but the company got off to a rocky ethical start when they made promises to people who beta-tested the system then removed the beta-tester bonuses. That was a major marketing mistake that in a lot of people’s minds, betrayed the potential customers that were helping Kneva debug the pre-market system. One advantage to Kneeva is that your basic avatar and apartment are free… so event newbies coming into the system have a starter place to live.

    As far as I know, the strongest competitor close to being finished is HiPiHi, which is a Chinese SL-clone now in late-beta-test stage. Whether it’s better or worse or equal to SL is anyone’s guess, but it certainly is going through an extensive test stage, and they have LL as a model for what to avoid. They also have already initiated an English-language version of their system, so they are not ignorant of the international market. HiPiHi also might be a little “cleaner” than SL, since they do have to operate under Chinese guidelines, which are a little more strict than U.S. guidelines (in some areas, less strict in others. It will be interesting to see). Apparently HiPiHi is going for strong oriental heritage and beauty, so whether or not they moderate their board and allow the harassment and garbage builds that LL allows is anyone’s guess. However, there is no doubt that HiPiHi is targeted to directly compete with Second Life (unless of course, there is something going on behind the scenes that we don’t know about).

    If I were to make an educated guess, I would also bet there are about half a dozen top-secret projects out there that will hit the market within the next year or two. Some of them will be similar to Second Life, some will be new concepts (such as the upcoming Google Earth system, in which users can build their own “town” on top of the RL Google Map, and walk around in avatars. While the Google project appears to be a glorified 3-D chat room, the totally free aspect of it as well as the ready availability of land at little or no cost is going to be very attractive to a lot of people that care more about social life than SL’s eye candy.

    So that list is pretty impressive. A lot of things there I didn’t know about myself. But one thing is certain: while SL holds somewhat of a tech-monopoly on 3D VR worlds right now due to its heavy versatility, that isn’t going to be the case very long. It’s pretty much a given that when these heavy competitors finally hit the market (after learning from SL’s mistakes), a lot of people who are tired of the LL runaround, absurdist prices, and unstable platform, are going to jump ship. There is already talk going around of the new, improved, “SL Ghost Town”. Sometimes talk isn’t just talk. LOL

  128. MightyJoe Darkstone says:

    I have no problems with SL at all……

    The absolutely incredible lags and random total failures have enabled me to actually get more work done. I’ve written several short stories, caught up on loads of work and built two websites.

    Many thanks you Linden bods for making me so very productive over the past fortnight.

    Couldn’t have done it without ya 😉

    Joe XxXxX

  129. pantaiputih korobase says:

    well and competitive spoken, blinders off

  130. KellyM Watkins says:

    What I dont understand is (and this probably wont be read or action taken on it) IS why introduce “New” things like Windlight and the trusty “voice” when the current issues arent being resolved. I love the game dearly but seriously LL sort the problems and issues at hand first before adding new ones.. I am thinking Windlight has caused this terrible week for residents… think we can all agree we would rather have the main grid working properly instead of adding more problems 😉

  131. Foxxe Wilder says:

    Odd, I can log in with my main av but not with my alt? (there are no differences between the 2 outside of name and look too.

    Come on LL… Give us the bloody news and stop being to damned retentive!! You screwed something up big time and it is HIGH TIME you became a BIT MORE business like and admitted something is wrong.

    Not EVERYONE embraces the denying conservative ways.

  132. Georgette Whitfield says:

    /me sings “Ding dong the grid is borked! Which old grid? The borky grid! Ding dong the borky grid is borked!”

  133. Damona Rau says:

    @132
    Windlight is a local thing in your Viewer. Ok, the Textures for the environment comes from the Assetserver, like all other things too, but the rest does your graphics card.

    I’m sure that this Het-Grid thing is one of the bottlenecks. Not wery well testet, to early implemented.

    I can’t understand the new knowledgebase article tho. As first, they tell us, SIM and Physics FPS are stable at 45 and if there are too much scripts, the scripts would be run slower, but the SIM FPS would be stable. Now they are talking that SIM FPS between 35-43 would be “nice” and “healthy” – but theoretical only.

    A good solution would also be, to run one SIM on one dualcore CPU. Ok, there will be a 50% disadvantage but LL becomes for one hardware server over 6000 US-Dollar setup fee. For 1650 US-Dollar setup fee i can get here in germany at any provider a super highend server with 4 dualcore CPUs – and the monthly “tier” would be less then 295 US-Dollar.

    Maybe in Thirdlife LL have learned enough for a stable grid and listening tp the residents.

    Oh, btw, if we own really all things we build, please give us a backup option, so that we can own it really.

    Thanks for your patience LindenLabs to read this.

  134. Kunoichi says:

    It is amazing that investors are expected to risk their moneyinto a very redoubtable enterprise , where incompetence seems to be corporate religion

    Besides, asking more and more real-world cash for less and less service and uptime , looks nothing more like a huge rip-off.

    Criminal Law has a term for it

  135. corey Reyes says:

    Why can’t I sign in with my “Paid” account due to “inventory problems” but can with my “Free” account? Does not make
    any sense…

  136. Rebecca Honi says:

    One of my friends told me, that the day when Lime was messed up as a lot, and every time you go in, it always crashes so…. When my friend called them, Patch Linden said that it’s fix, but yet Lime is still messed up. So my friend complained again, and the Linden said that it’s already fixed. The Linden (not sure which one) didn’t want to go over there, until my friend said something to make the other Lindens reply. So finally the linden comes to Lime and fixed it. I don’t want to believe it, but if this is true, then I might as well leave SL. I’m not going to leave yet, but I will if I find out if it happens again. I don’t pay for lazy people. I love SL, and I love what you’ve done in SL and it’s features and I know it’s not easy fixing these problems but having issues every time is not good. Now I see why SL can’t can’t a higher member count then 50,000 anymore…

  137. Totally Hopeless says:

    It also seems to me that everybody who was on when the trouble started, cannot log on for the problem described in 138.

    no inventory system

    whatever it means

    but it´s piss poor

    considering that 80% of sl population doesn´t read the blog and probably 60% wouldn´t be able to translate it anyway, lots of shops & businesses get a bad reputation due to your total incompetency, because people simply continue trying. Where are at least the blue windows in the upper right, saying people go get a real life for now, cose this one is screwed?

    Have you ever considered at LL, that you would have been closed down by authorities already, if you were based in the EU?

    Most of EU countries have laws that simply overrule any TOS, in case TOS and law are in conflict… And your total disservice without any refunds and compensation schemes in place, represent a very clear conflict.

    Is there already a customer protection organisation busy with the sl/ll case? I´d look to hook up with them.

    Enough for tonight
    Time for bed

  138. Totally Hopeless says:

    sorry, one more

    friend of mine just told me, he´s trying to cancel the sl account since today…Not even that seems to work

    He actually can log on

    L(O)L

  139. Ann Otoole says:

    scheduling downtime for a grid that is inoperable. sweet.

  140. Sean Heying says:

    /me winks “Keep up the great work Lindens”

    OK,OK The truth… you were doing ok, but once more you have caused this outcry by turning off blog comments.

    It would be best to make a policy saying every single blog entry should be comment enabled and that the Linden posting said entry must read the darned thing.

  141. SL Player™ says:

    Thank you for your CONTINUED patience!? My patience ran out long ago. My truck gets washed regularly now. I keep my yard maintained. I do a lot of things around the house I use to put off in my first life. Now I’ll log in a couple times a month. After while you out grow this “menagerie” anyway and learn to appreciate the real life AGAIN.

  142. ZigZag Freenote says:

    @78 Blinders Off

    A shooter game draws 64×64 textures to 512×512 areas, SL draws 512×512 textures to 64×64 areas. And lots of them, to fill the screen. Can’t compare that.

    And it’s not all cached. At least at default cache size and a texture rich sim. Room for improvement? Definitely. Easy? Not. Add the disk fragmentation issues to it and you’ve got a handful.

    And there sure are things to update. You need to receive every gesture and every sound anybody makes. SL is very detailed. Maybe too detailed for this infrastructure. But that’s another topic. Just don’t say nothing is updated. Don’t blame flexies, they’re client side and pretty benign.

    The big prim issue is a bit fishy. Ideally, you’re right, but your argumentation does not account for all possible underlying issues.

    Prim count limit cannot be avoided. If you’d pay for a web server, you’d be limited by size, wouldn’t you? Limiting the total amount of textures would be a better measure, but harder to manage. So it’s prims. And you have to hold back the vendors somehow. It’s the same on the web. Webmasters will beef up their sites as long as they can see it load on their superfast development machine hooked up directly to the site. while users get sluggish performance. Is it their connection or did the vendor overdo it?

    OK, FPS good, sim @ 0.99, so what is it? That leaves the network. I think the textures are the big problem. Maybe they should be cached more efficiently, maybe loaded in a more efficient order, maybe throttled better. Avatar updates probably suffer when textures hog the bandwidth.

    One more thing. I think online shooters are good at hiding the lag. You feel like you’re moving without lag, but bullets miss. Easy when the game simply doesn’t care if players are not where they think they are. Well, might blame SL for having true collisions. The question is, will Havoc 4 improve that or is ping latency the bad guy here.

    Anyway, it could be that the LL network infrastructure hasn’t kept up lately. They probably know it and are working on it. Wouldn’t surprise me, they’re good at keeping secrets. Even though they seem to have opened up a little lately…

  143. Extremely annoyed says:

    Our mission is: “To connect everyone to an online world that improves the human condition.”

    Nice idea. Care to explain to me how come, if this is your mission, you are wasting time with Windlight, which has NOTHING to do with this, but letting people like me be trapped OFFLINE for over a day??? Why the last week has been plagued with continual login issues, TP issues, money issues?

    Your mission sounds great. Time you started paying attention to it.

  144. KellyM Watkins says:

    @135 My gfx card has nothing to do with what I was saying oO I was merely pointing out the Main Grid has got worse since Windlight has returned.

    My HUD’s keep detaching everytime I log off…or more commonly CRASH..take it this has something to do with the poor performance of SL this last week… Please Please LL sort out these problems before everyone has enough and goes back to 1st Life 😉

  145. Cat Gisel says:

    Happy Holidays everyone anyway. I guess I get lots of frames when I watch a movie (in the case that I can’t log in), huh?

    hehe

  146. Blinders Off says:

    @144 Zig Zag. Hiya Zig. Decent post… not sure I agree with it, but that’s aside. I think first person shooters are efficient because they have their graphics honed, not because they’re cutting corners on resolution. Prime example is Unreal, which will give you as much graphics detail as your card can handle. I found that out when I switched from a 5500 to 6600 graphics card (and then later to a 7900 and 8800). The game presented things I had never seen before, because it recognized my graphics card could handle it.

    I agree with you that improving SL isn’t going to be easy. But I think it would be more efficient if LL would stop concentrating on eye candy and start focusing on serious bugs that have been around for years (myself, I think it inexcusable that group chat has been messed up for so long. How long does it take a competent programmer to get chat to work right?) And if they can’t get chat to work right, is it all that surprising that more complex things are messed up?

    As for the “underlying issues” of big prim use, I keep hearing a lot of claims from a lot of people, without one bit of data to support it. I’ve even read posts from Cory himself… posts that were totally unconvincing. It all comes down to the point that it is just as easy to draw a 20m prim as it is a 2m prim. And the fact that LL doesn’t allow it stems back to an old, arbitrary, knee-jerk decision to remove big prims because they can be used by griefers. Like that stopped the griefers. The smart move would have been to give sim owners to tools to detect big prim abuse and eliminate them. So many “solutions” on SL seem to be stop-gap measures that really don’t do the job. I’ve often referred to such as “halfway solutions”.

    A prime example is LL’s continued insistance on using static databases instead of dynamic. There is no logical computer-oriented reason to limit people to 25 groups. But they did. There’s no logical reason to limit group roles to 10. It’s the easy, lazy-man’s way of programming (it’s a lot easier to program static databases instead of dynamic ones), but it doesn’t serve the community well. Too many such things exist in SL. “Halfway solutions”. That mentality is why the board isn’t running so spiffy. Too many “easy” solutions, too many cut corners.

    I agree with you that prim limits are essential. But telling people that they need to reduce prims in order to reduce lag is absurd. The prim limit to a sim is 15,000. So long as people stay within that limit, there should be no problem. Can’t blame lag on the fact that clients are actually using their prim limit. If the servers were running right, I would bet dimes to donuts that prim limit could even be raised and still work just fine.

    Regarding networking, yup, I agree with your statements there. But something I have found odd: apparently SL updates at 30 times per second. I have always questioned that. Do they really believe that it is necessary to update the client 30 times per second in order to achieve what they need to achieve? I would be they could update 15 times per second, using “smooth flow” graphics technonogy (a program that fills in the “gaps” just as our human brain does at the movies), and SL would work just fine. That would MAJORLY cut down on lag. I wonder if LL has thought of that, and tried it to see if it works?

    Far as online shooters “hiding the lag”… maybe. Dunno though, when I play Unreal against my friend, he seems to be able to peg me pretty well. And the monsters pretty much drop when I shoot ’em. And while I wonder how my opponent seems to dodge all my bullets, I have to admit it’s probably due to my lousy aim rather than lag. 😉

    Here’s something of note that a fellow tech pointed out to me: when I log on to SL, the memory usage on my system starts out at about 200 megs. But then, the usage starts climbing. Slowly, but steadily. It climbs even when I’m doing nothing, in an unpopulated sim. When it hits about 550 megs, things start lagging like a fiend.

    Know what that is? That is memory leak, pure and simple. He pointed that out, I recognized it immediately. SL has memory leakage. I have heard rumors of that for a long time, but this was the first actual evidence I’d seen of such. The longer one is on SL, the more RAM the system uses, until it’s so bloated it chokes. That’s just poor programming.

    So bottom line, while I understand that people love SL (hey, I enjoy it myself, WHEN I can use it. LOL)… too many people allow themselves to be deluded by LL into thinking that lag is primarily the customer’s fault. It’s too many textures, or the wrong kind of texures, or too many prims, or too many scripts, blah blah blah.

    No, it’s programming problems, stacking sims on a single server box and forcing them to share resources, poor database management, poor asset servers, memory leakage, etc. People are paying PORCHE prices for SL, and receiving VOLKSWAGEN BUG performance (apparently emphasis on the BUG). (sorry, couldn’t resist. LOL). At $1,650 to “set up” a server, and $295 a month tier fee, each sim should have its own dedicated dual-core server, if not quad-core. And most certainly we should see major bugs fixed NOW, not remaining on the system for months and even years. That group chat bug should have been fixed months ago.

    SL is fun, and forgive me for being blunt, but at these prices, there is no excuse for such shoddy customer support. Since 95% of the people who have ever tried SL no longer log on, I’d say LL should have a major clue that their grand experiement is failing.

  147. Aru Krasey says:

    Great, sl was running for half of today for me and now it just crashed on me again….

    I so have to hold on to myself not to insult you LL amateurs a way you could sue me for.

    Get a grip, bloody hell

  148. O_Owhats this says:

    [22 Nov. 9:20AM PST ]We are going to kick the residents who are currently on the affected inventory server in order to swap it with the back up.

    wth does that mean does it mean my invantory geting wiped if it is i’ll be so angery cause i play I am Legand : survival and i have got a few light bulbs and stuff

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