Typical Frame Rate Performance by Graphics Card/GPU

To help Residents determine the cause of slower frame rates (the rate at which the Second Life viewer draws objects), we take periodic samples of Second Life viewer performance statistics.

While there are a number of factors that influence frame rates (see I have a lot of lag; how do I stop it? for more information and troubleshooting tips), the the GPU (graphics processing unit) on your computer can definitely affect your viewing performance, since it does most of the work in drawing the objects you see. On many computers, this is part of your graphics card, but it could also be a graphics chip built directly into your computer’s motherboard.

The chart below represents a range of typical frame rates (in frames per second, or FPS) for a sample taken of the 100 most popular GPUs using Second Life, which makes up 99.5% of our current user base. The tick mark in the center of each floating bar shows the median frame rate; the bars themselves extend to the top and bottom 25% for each GPU. This should give you a sense of the kind of performance other users who have the same GPU are seeing.

Frame Rates by GPU

If you’re seeing worse performance than the range indicated, try the troubleshooting steps listed below, or in the related topics. If none of these steps help improve your performance, you may want to consider upgrading your graphics card. Note that some of the GPUs listed above, while common, are not on the supported GPU list on our System Requirements page – but we still see people trying to use them, which is likely to be frustrating for those users…

Other possible factors that could affect viewer frame rates:

  • How busy your location is — try teleporting to an area with less activity or fewer objects. Note that frame rates can vary greatly over the course of a session!
  • Viewer Preference settings — you might have the settings too high for what you computer can easily handle. Try adjusting settings in the following tabs of the Preferences window:
    • Graphics
    • Graphics Detail
    • Adv Graphics
  • Graphics card driver support for OpenGL functions (make sure you have the most recent update of your graphics card drivers).
  • Available memory.
  • Network issues (more commonly referred to as “lag”).

Useful information may be found in the following related topics:

This article is also posted in our knowledge base.

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150 Responses to Typical Frame Rate Performance by Graphics Card/GPU

  1. Mycael Cerveau says:

    lol well i am running dual 7900 512 SLI and i am happy to get 25fps in my club, most times its more like 15-20 but have everything maxed, on a sad note though i pulled up the winlight firstlook last night and yah the sky was pretty and all that but 3-4 times i had to restart cause it seemed as if my cache was getting hozed, water disappeard and objects that had been rezed were no longer showing but if i selected with the drag frame select i could see the outlines of the objects… was very odd, only thing that fixed it was restarting SL, but anyway i am not so sure that this graph truely represents SL usage unless you are on your own sim with like 1 other person maybe lol , but im not complaining lol , i just cant imagine how some people even function in SL with the hardware they have, so yah sure if i put my cam underwater or stare at the sky i can hit 60+fps, but you would really think that with my cpu, memory and vid card set up i could get more than 15 fps in a club environment…

  2. Mrc Homewood says:

    ya i get the same with my objects, they spawn, dont see them for a wile untill i edit where it is moving to if it had moved, i get about 9-12 fps with geforce 5200 just takes a wile to load

  3. U M says:

    Questen about First look “Wind Light” It seems that the “quility of rendering of light Ultra High Quility Requires a High CPU ” Quad Core” If you want Normal rates of FPS” As One was getting with the past viewer. I have a 50% drop in FPS ( basic ) when I have Ultra High Quility. But with “LOW” Quility” I get Normal pre “Wind Light” FPS (basic). This leads me to believe that this current UI Build requires a hight spec computer then mine to get or use ULTRA HiGH QUILITY with the same FPS as the past release……

    Here are My spec…….

    Second Life 1.18.5 (73655) (Second Life WindLight)
    CPU: AMD (Unknown model) (3015 MHz) 6000+ AMD 125 Watt
    Memory: 3327 MB or ( 4 giga DDR2)
    OS Version: Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2 (Build 2600) Japanesae
    Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation
    Graphics Card: GeForce 7900 GTX/PCI/SSE2/3DNOW! 512 MB
    OpenGL Version: 2.1.1

    Fiber Optical 100MBPS Connection.


    As one can see when I was getting 70 FPS in one sim i am now getting 33 FPS ( with Ultra High Quility ) “Low Quility I am its 70 FPS.

    Thank you for reading
    U sagi M usashi

  4. Celierra Darling says:

    Darn, I was going to try to start something on the forums eventually to catalogue this!

    Though, it’d be nice to see more granularity, because a lot of the “bar” for some cards is because they vary greatly between sub-types (like Nvidia GeForce 8800 GTX vs GTS 320MB vs GTS 640MB vs GT).

    I might start something anyway and use that First Look benchmark/test sim that was set up for that Render Pipeline redesign way back.

  5. Pingback: Frame Rate Performance by Graphics Card/GPU - Second life forum - Nederlandse Secondlife community

  6. Norgan says:

    this is all great but i have done everythign here on my hpo dv9205tx an dadded it up to 3gb of ram but alas still max frame rate ever is 18 with 5-10fps being the avergae. that’s a geforce 7600 512mb ram, direxctx9, vista 64bit and dual core 2ghz. STILL waiting for LL to take me through troubleshooting and get to the bottom of this.

  7. kabalyero says:

    Hi, what about unexpected reboots and lockups? This only happened recently (just a few days ago). The weird thing is my lower end PC with only 32 MB Video Ram don’t experience this. 😦

    Other games like Guild Wars and City of Villains runs smoothly. 😦

  8. Nack Barnes says:

    7900 GSOC PCI-E card, 3gb PC4200 RAM, Raptor hard drive, dual core 2.8 cpu, 1680×1050 resolution. Framerate? 3fps to 8fps, unless standing in an empty island with nothing on but linden hair/skin/clothes, maybe.

  9. My frame rate is awesome and for some reason better with windlight. O.o

  10. lee ponz says:

    Great data. thanks

  11. Kira says:

    Its always good when people install 2GB of ram to their systems. So SecondLife is running smoother anytime!
    To reduce lag Linden would be well advised to open around the planet some subsidiaries from where SL is running – use less high demands to give any a chance to help and not only e.g. providers which have over 2mio accounts running! Think good and do 😀

  12. Nulflux Negulesco says:

    I’m running an AMD Athlon 64-bit 3000+ (1.8Ghz), 4GB of 400Mhz LowCas DDR RAM on (2T) timing, MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum system board and a PCI-E ATI X1600 (256MB) video card. I have the WindLight viewer running at ultra-high with about 20 frames per second and 40+ if I look at a non-detailed scene. I see constant frame rate of 40+ if I simply turn the detail down to high.

    This viewer is not nearly as stable as it could be, with the last 2 clients I was able to run SL for hours (4-5) without crashing and this one crashes nearly every hour. The crashes with the WindLight client are particularly dirty – they usually lock up my entire computer with a reboot being the only solution.

    I have also experienced some pretty serious vertex vomit – usually after zooming below water level. The vertexes appear to gather at a central point (usually my head – but sometimes a single pixel on the ground).

    In addition, the rendering of objects with bump-mapping enabled is not accurate, with the model losing it’s bump/lighting effect (almost as if it is turning Full Bright) when moving the camera at certain angles

    I’m still not happy with the levels of shininess that can be applied to prims – especially with the new atmospheric lighting. The Low shininess setting is extremely overpowering – nearly the equivalent of medium and high on previous clients and it would be very helpful if instead of only 4 options the shine would be controlled by a sensitivity slider.

    Also – no matter what I do I cannot get the Glow feature to work – even with graphics settings on ultra-high. It’s almost as if the checkbox is there for glow but the actual feature isn’t implemented.

    Another issue, I create a lot of sculpted prims and it appears that some of the previously fixed LOD issues have cropped up again. When you guys get around to fixing it (again) could you also implement the new sculpted prim types that were promised months ago – it would be nice to see nurbs planes, torus’s, cylinders and cubes implemented at the very least. I know it is possible to create cylinders and cubes however beating on a sphere to make it a cube is not always the best waste of time (it also happens to waste about half the vertexes because you have to cram 6 sets of vertexes into one to create a sharp corner). Also, Qarl Lindens Maya export script flips the sculpt texture inside-out EVERY SINGLE TIME you export if the (maximize) option is selected and the ‘correct orientation’ option can completely bork a very carefully aligned surface.

    The final, biggest concern that I have is that the ability to select large builds has been crippled. A building that spans a 8192sqm parcel (perhaps a couple stories tall) is impossible to select without moving your avatar several times. Then – when you finally have it all selected – you try to move the object and it hits a sim boundary or goes above the distance limit then rubber bands back to it’s starting position – AND DE-SELECTS EVERYTHING AT THE SAME TIME. That gets so annoying after you’ve selected your building 3 times and every time you try to move it the selection rubber-bands and de-selects.

    I understand that LL must place certain limits on the client but if I can disable camera constraints and zoom out enough to view my entire parcel I should also be capable of selecting EVERYTHING that is in my view – regardless of how far away it is.

    Oh yeah I almost forgot WHY THE HECK ARE MY LARGE BUILDS NOT COMING INTO MY INVENTORY AS A SINGLE PACKAGE? I select my building – take a copy into my inventory – and get 4 different objects? How / why does that happen? Also – Objects that are selected and returned by the parcel owner should also return as one grouped object.. .Why? Because it’s such a waste of time re-assembling a build that was returned in 188 different pieces.

  13. Bubba B says:

    WooHoo! ATI x1900s rule.

  14. Sean Heying says:

    I have a Macbook Pro with ATI X1600 graphics card running Leopard. In standard client I get 25fps or so, as this graph shows.

    Start up windlight and I get 4fps.

    Start standard on the same machine on the second monitor and my alt sees 25fps whilst I see 4fps.

    Windlight is running the lowest settings that provide the graphics, they are not pushed all the way to the right. Draw is set down to 64.

    Hmm, and hardware skinning is way borked at night.

  15. Kathmandu Gilman says:

    This only so useful since the graph does not indicate how much AA and AF filtering is being used. My Nvidia 8800 GTX is currently averaging 35 fps because I have AA set to 16xQ which is devastatingly high for any other card, 8x on my 8600 would grind it down to about 5 fps. With all filtering turned to minimum and everything set to high performance I can hit well over 100 fps.

  16. Isabeau Imako says:

    What if you haven’t changed anything yet (new SL version – Windlight) but are experiencing much more LAG for the last 2-3 days? How could it be from my side? I’ve had SL for over two months and never had any problems till now…

  17. Nulflux Negulesco says:

    #16 – I suggest you run a couple virus scans from different (competing) vendors, as this is surely the cause of a lot of lag in many instances. I know most people believe they aren’t infected but belief alone is not enough to prevent infection. I have 5 scanners installed and at least 1 (usually 2) real-time protection on at all times and I still get infected from time to time. The only way to be confident that you don’t have a virus is to wipe your hard drive and reinstall windows, then make certain you have A/V and firewalls installed BEFORE you connect to the internet (even for windows or program updates). Also, the more time your computer has been online (and actively used) the greater the chance it will become infected by a virus/worm/trojan that can circumvent your current scanners altogether – running in complete control of your PC and hidden from any scanner you may install after the fact. When in doubt – wipe and reinstall.

  18. Uccello Poultry says:

    I found the Quality slider in Preferences > Graphics of the Windlight viewer to be very helpful. All things being equal, my frame rates (fps) decreased with Windlight, but simply decreasing the quality with a quick drag on the slider improved frame rates more effectively and satisfactorily than turning off various Render items in the Client menu.

    Example: On some Class 4 sims I would see as few as 3-5 fps on all viewers prior to Windlight, unless I turned off Volume and Simple (effectively turning off prims). Then it would jump to 10-15 fps. Turning off Characters would zoom the frame rate to the 30-40 fps range. Of course, i couldn’t see anyone.

    With Windlight’s graphics Quality slider set to High I actually had 1-2 fps in the same location under the same circumstances. Just by decreasing it a notch (Medium) my frame rate quickly jumped to 10-12 fps. Decreasing it to minimum made my frame rate go to 20-35 fps. Of course, quality decreased, but I could still see everything. All prims were there, people weren’t bald, and attachments could be seen. Wonderful.

    Gradations and some colors in Windlight, even at maximum quality, take on the appearance of watercolors at certain times of the day. I think tweaking the settings might help, but even this small graphic inconvenience is more than worth it if I can move and type without lag.

    Of equal benefit .. things are gorgeous. Wonderful skies, of course, but water is frickin’ awesome and even buildings seem more realistic. Thank you very much.

    BTW: I reported two bugs with Windlight. and

  19. Gully Miles says:

    Surely I can’t be the only resident with an nVidia 7950GT? Ah well. It goes plenty fast enough.

  20. Scalar Tardis says:

    What a beautiful chart!

    And you’ve even bothered to try ridiculously low-end 3D like the various laughable Intel integrated video chipsets, for those who might be trying to use it and complaining about usability.

    However, it would be interesting if you would continue to extend this chart to include the various SLI configurations as well as the upper-crust Quadro FX models.

    I’m sure nVidia would gladly help you out with this project, and it’s be nice to see FPS ratings of 200 FPS or more with the $20,000 Quadro Plex medical imaging video server. 🙂

  21. Uccello Poultry says:

    Hmm…. my URLs didn’t post. Here they are:

    Ground Textures do not display as specified

    Water Surface Flickers Between Textures When at Altitude

  22. Sue Saintlouis says:

    Well, I get a slightly better rate than the chart indicates, by about 5FPS. Of course, it helps that I built my club myself, being careful with anything that causes lag, and that I’m on a low lag private sim. This is while running Windows XP, OE, a couple of IE windows, a few starup programs, on a 3-yr old laptop.

  23. Isabeau Imako says:

    Thank You Nulflux 🙂
    I have a MAC so I didn’t automatically think of a virus or worm…
    Me thinks I have to check up on that! Sometimes, its the simplest things.

  24. The chart doesn’t completely reflect the relative power of the graphics cards, because it doesn’t measure the graphics settings that the owners use. People with the high-end cards (especially the nVidia 8800, which appears to totally pwn SL) are likely using more graphics-intense settings (higher draw distance, higher detail, etc.), so the charts understate the advantage of high-end video hardware.

  25. SunShine Kukulcan says:

    Here’s my setup:

    Alienware 3 GHz Dual Core
    Dual NVidia GeForce 7900 GTX with SLI-enabled and Anisotrophic set to 16x
    2 Gb Memory
    22 in ViewSonic 2235wm
    4 TB’s of storage

    Windlight settings all maxed
    FPS around 40-45 usually and maintained with Windlight at this time.

  26. Buck says:

    What a great chart, and some very helpful comments–thanks! As for me, I’ve got an ATI Radeon Xpress and my frame rates are often in the range shown, but depending on the sim I’m in I do sometimes get much higher rates, especially when not many objects and avs are around, 🙂 which proves that frame rates can vary during a session.

  27. Kasolai Nighbor says:

    It took some fiddling for me to get the shader effects to work on my system, seems like I have to change the windows XP video driver settings around a bit. After I got them working properly tho, SL is running FASTER on max quality than it did with the normal client. The difference is about 5-10fps more, and it feels smoother when I’m walking around or sailing on the water. So I’m definately happy with the new winlight. No crashes so far and faster speed with amazing visuals!

    My PC is old, but its good enough for SL:
    WinXP Pro
    AthlonXP 3000+ 2.17ghz
    Asus A7V333 board
    2gig ram
    SB Audigy2zs sound
    ATI x1950Pro 512mb AGP video card

  28. reddawnbade says:

    Wow – this is nice data. I only wish my PC was getting frame rates in the range for my graphics card.

    I have a 2.4 quad core PC with 3gb ram running Vista with an nvidia 8800 GTS with 640 mb and get frame rates in the high teens to low twenties most days. From time to time I can get up in the 40s and better – but very rarely. Even though my frame rates are low – I don’t seem to have the same problem with lag as many of my friends – and can usually leave my settings fairly high even in busy areas.

    I’ve checked the internet connection and am getting connection rates of 4 mbs or better. I can run any other game or program without any problem – whether it is graphic intensive or bandwidth intensive – and get frames rates right on par with any published specs – but not SL. 😦

    I’ve installed the latests driver, reinstalled every driver and everything else to no avail. I’m at a complete loss.

    I also have a MacBook Pro sharing the same internet connection that has an nvidia 8600 with 240 mb and can get sustained frame rates in the 30s with rates in the 40s when conditions are good or I’m in a less busy area – all with the same setting I use on my PC.

    Anyone have any ideas?

  29. Blinders Off says:

    So according to the above charte, the Nvidia 8800 is the fastest thing on the market. Which is what I have. Along with a quad-core computer system.

    So how come I still lag?

    Thanks for the chart. It’s informative. But I think LL is spending too much time telling clients why their computers are lagging… when we all know the lag is primarily server-side.

  30. Ric Mollor says:

    Since this is drawn from user systems is any attempt made to equalize for graphics settings, draw distances, and user location?

    If not, then the chart does not show a realistic representation of performance. It does however, show the obvious, that newer video cards have more performance than the older ones.

    I’m very curious if there are any plans to update the graphics system of SL and how that will be managed with the user supplied content.

    Any roadmap you can lay out for us, Lindens?

  31. Ever since I upgraded to leopard my SL runs terrible :/

  32. Blinders Off says:

    And if I may folks, I would like to say this:

    If SL were programmed correctly (hey, I’m going to be blunt here), if the graphics routines were tweaked like they should be, if LL wasn’t overtaxing their servers, if the asset servers weren’t borked, any graphics card with the power of an Nvidia 5500FX on up would work just fine. But the fact is, SL isn’t streamlined, it isn’t tweaked, the asset servers are borked, the data handling routines simply don’t work, and Second Life demainds far more system resources than any single program has a right to demand. That’s the tall and short of it. And claims to the contrary are pure out propaganda and tail-kissin’. LL isn’t the only place with computer technicians, y’know. Some people out here actually know a bit about coding, systems analysis and design, and all them other big computer words. The truth of the matter is, if the SL foundation had been modified and shored up all along, if it wasn’t still running on Havok 1 when Havok 4 has been on the market for some time, if they spent more time on platform code and less time on toys… SL would be running a lot leaner and meaner and any decent 3D graphics card would handle it just fine.

    Just calling a spade a space. I kinda like what I’ve seen of windlight so far. And like one of the posters above, for some reason it actually seems to run more smoothly on Windlight (at least, on my high-power system). I don’t know how windlight will affect lower-power systems, but I’m sure we’ll be hearing about that. The thing is though, LL really, really needs to stop trying to pull the wool over our eyes and trying to make us think our computers aren’t powerful enough, our graphics cards aren’t good enough, we have too much content on our sims bleh bleh bleh.

    We know better. Fix the platform. Fix the asset servers. Fix the data handlers. THEN let’s talk customer computers.

    I was running a dual-core with an ATI 1650 graphics card and 2 gigs of RAM on a high-speed cable connection, and I still couldn’t keep up with SL without lagging to a standstill every 5 minutes. Now I have a quad-core, 4 gigs of RAM and an Nvidia 8800 card, and I run relatively smoothly, but I STILL LAG.

    It’s not our computers. It’s SL. So suggestion: stop telling us our computers aren’t powerful enough… and fix yours. 😉

  33. Storyof Oh says:

    peachy my NVIDIA GeForce 7400 is up to the job except the only way i can get its proper performance is to live in a grainy world in a ghost town sim?….
    what LL are saying is remove everything that makes SL great to get your graphics working…..now if a car manufacturer sold you a car and said ‘oh btw to get the best speed and performance take off the alloy wheels, remove the AC, scrape off the metallic paint……’

  34. Blinders Off says:

    (Sorry for the double post, but one more important point here…)

    Linden Lab charges what, $1,650 US to set up a server. Then they stack four sims on a quad-core server box. Those sims share RAM access, hard drive, bus and network access. Every one of those are potential bottlenecks.

    At $1,650 and $295 a month (oooh we could buy a new car with that!) … I would think every sim having its own dedicated dual core machine would be warranted.

    I mean, what does a brand new dual-core box cost on the RETAIL market right now… $500? And ya have to know LL can get them a lot cheaper in mass-quantity purchase directly from the manufacturer. So what, they’d pay maybe $350? Sounds like a big KACHING to me.

    But no, instead of providing a nice, fast, dedicated dual core box for each sim, they stack sims on a quad-core instead, sharing resources with 3 other sims.

    The result? LAG.

    There is no one going to tell me that a sim running on a quad core with 3 other sims will have equal performance to a sim running on a dual core. I’d dare anyone claiming such to prove it with a tech-spec, documented and witnessed speed race. What, no takers?

    Again, it’s not the customer systems that are lagging. It’s SL. LL is charging through the nose to set up an island, and IMO shortchanging their customers.

    I’m not bashing LL here. I’m stating the truth. You people charge 4 sims $1,650 each to set up a “server”, and then instead of giving them latest and greatest technology befitting such expenditure, you stack ’em on a quad-core box with shared assets. That’s not even coming close to giving us our money’s worth.

  35. Jayden B says:

    Blinders Off… You should you know; that is… take them.

    Do you honestly LL are using $350 home desktop machines with the 24x7x365x3nines they are aiming for?

    I would warrant that they are using $5,000 blades or 1U rack units. As for the monthly tier… someone has to pay for colo, power, aircon, wages, bandwidth… and so on.

  36. Seems to me most the lag I get is from the network part not the vid card. I got a System running a GF FX5500 on a AMD XP1600+ at 1400mhz with 1gig of PC2700 and another with a Radeon X1950pro with a AMD 3000+ @2500mhz and 2gig PC3200. Both systems run smooth on sims with nothing in them. Both lag like hell in popular areas like Laguna.

  37. Sofia Westwick says:

    I’ve noticed with windlight alot of objects and textures look very off form how they should. Prim eyes go hollow in the middle like you have no eyes at all clear where you can see inside your head.

    Windlight is very pretty but still needs alot of work

  38. Teagan says:

    The only thing that really seems to have effect on my fps is the local lights. If I have them on, it drops fps instantly, so mostly I keep them off. Now I have a dual-core laptop with GeForce 7000 256 Mb (wasn’t on the diagram I noticed) and 2 Gb RAM and Vista, and my usual fps is about 12-15, in growded areas it can drop below 10 easily. Before I had iMac with Tiger (756Mb RAM) and GeForce FX 5200 64Mb, and the fps was about the same, but with graphics turned really low. Now I can at least have the graphics higher, but turning them down really has no affect on the fps what so ever. With my iMac I had no hopes of having local lights on, now I can use them when I want to have some nice views at least. My SL experience has got better with the laptop, but the lag that comes from the bad connection to Europe is of course still there, and I think nothing will ever fix that.

  39. JetZep Zabelin says:

    FPS is not really a problem for my Invidia Gforce 7300 in the latest Windlight preview client at ultra high graphic settings as long as I turn off avatar clothing and lower trees to medium. I get the median as shown on the chart

    This was tested at the very busy Orientation Island Public.

    Increasing Draw distance to 512 does make it appear that my client is getting less FPS visually when I move my avatar but it’s actually lag due to additional objects having to be downloaded. Statistics show FPS to remain at the same level pretty much.

    I usually keep draw distance at 64 or 96 except when I plan on staying at the same spot for a long period of time. I especially turn DD to 64 before I teleport anywhere so upon arrival my client doesnt have to d/l so much.

  40. Celierra Darling says:

    Blinders: Low FPS vs sever or network lag are totally different types of lag. It’s explained in the knowledge base article linked to in the blog post. I think you’re not doing this purposefully, but please avoid confusing people who are looking for more information.

  41. Tegg B says:

    Cool Chart, well done guys & guyettes

  42. JetZep Zabelin says:

    Hey Blinders, give the exterminators a chance to chase all the bugs away will ya? =) Yes Windlight does run a lot smoother i think partly because it also contains the release client fixes.

  43. Pepper Haas says:

    I know nothing about computers. All I know is, when I used to have zero or little lag except in the most crowded and overscripted places, but now have frequent episodes of peasoup movement and everywhere textures take up to half hr. to rezz, no matter where I am, it’s not MY computer.
    So I would be really thankful for fewer blogs on what all I can or should do to my machine to fix all this lag, and more on how Lindens are elevating Lag to “showstopper” and will work on it till it’s back to the normal consequences of crowding a server.

  44. Masuyo Aabye says:

    The ATi HD2900XT won’t work with the water shaders in windlight, even though all the shader boxes are enabled, all we see is a flat looking vlue thing.

  45. Melody Marlin says:

    Jayden, I’m afraid as per LL’s own words Blinkers is correct and we can only wish for your server design. Have a look for yourself:
    Not precisely value for money on the upfront, tier I’ll happily pay for. I disagree with the economics of the upfront fee though.

    As for this chart, I like it and I agree with it for the most part. My computer runs approximately where it should then. It doesn’t explain the sudden stutters (that are felt sim wide so it’s not just me) and FR dips/freezes, but it’s nice to know they are looking at such things to rule out customer performance versus terrible sim performance under load.

  46. Minerva Montale says:

    I would agree with the results for the Nvidia 8800 GEforce graphic card. Typically most populated areas I get around 30 fps (heavily populated drops toward 15-20fps) but some are 60 and beyond. Sadly I cannot rate how windlight performs as it will not start without crashing. I would note that I was able to get as far as setting preferences and for supposedly the best of the all the cards, the recommended graphic setting is not the highest setting but one notch below that meaning there really isnt a system that is affordable to build that can do all of what LL imagines yet. Very disappointing to set the bar so high few can reach it.

    AMD Athlon 64 X2 6000+
    2 gigs 800mhz DDR2 RAM
    Nvidia GeForce 8800 GTX 640Mb on board memory PCI-E
    Asus M2N SLI Deluxe

  47. Sling Trebuchet says:

    This is very useful information thank you.
    The more factual information like this that you can produce, the less scope there is for FUD , misinformation and general myth to prosper and grief the hell out of everybody’s souls.

    It would be interesting to see a breakdown of the percentages of users with various GPUs.

    I started off in January ’07 with an Intel on-board chipset on a bog-standard business desktop PC. SL ran well on that, and only got me screaming at the screen at times when lag-storms were affecting all of SL. ZOMG 20,000 online!!!! OMGZ fix it stop!! 🙂
    Each new FirstLook crashed the Intel drivers, but the eventual live release didn’t. However I figured I was SLing on borrowed time …….

    I went mad and switched to a GeForce 8800 GTS
    That runs two instances without problems, and it’s real pretty too.
    I suspect that at this stage, the Intel onboard chipset would not support a usable SL. It did 9 or 10 months ago!!

    There’s a strange conflict here:

    Most users are on free accounts. Many users camp in order to earn mini-micro amounts of RL money.
    The way SL is going, those impoverished starving masses are going to need expensive high-end machines to get reasonable performance.
    The dots don’t join up here.

    Comparing the cost of sim server hardware with setup and monthly fees is nonsense.
    It’s the network and bandwidth requirements that kill things. That’s where even more money than now has to be spent.
    When I see bad lag, it’s usually in the LL network.

  48. Damona Rau says:

    Hey Jayden, believe me (or not) that a company like LL never pay 5000 for a Blade. I have a really small company with 4 employees only but i get on servers a discount from 15%. And I’m sure that a company like LL pays for a dualcore server not more then 400 – 500 US-Dollar.
    Btw, for a charge of US$ 1650 for a Simulator thats 6600 for the hardware… abit too much i think.

    And yes, your right, there are costs for electric, air condition, employees etc, but this should be payed from the tier: US$ 295 each SIM * 4 = 1180 from each Server.

    I believe things would run smoother, if LL would put 2 SIMs only on a quad core.

    Back to the Topic
    On my System, p4 3,2Ghz Hypethreading (not the newest, i know)
    nvidia 7600 GT 256MB
    running XP prof. SP2 with all patches
    HIghspeed Cable connection

    i’m ALWAYS 50-60% under the LL-Average for this graphics-card. If i have luck, SL runs with 10 FPS, on a complete empty SIM with luck 25 FPS.

    Other games, like GuildWars etc, runs with over 70 FPS.
    An other Online-World with a similiar technique like SL, runs also with 40-50 FPS, but why not SL???

  49. Damona Rau says:

    Post Scriptum:
    Thats really funny this message from the Lag-Meter


  50. Psistorm Ikura says:

    thanks for the information – turns out I pretty much hit the frame range for my card (using an 8800GTX) when running ultra details. also, windlight seems to run faster than standard SL – while I get the same FPS, I get a LOT more image quality at the same time. so, nice work Id say!

  51. While I am all for Windlight which improves a lot of the visual aspects of Second Life (not only sky and water), the hardware demands it makes ARE a bit steep.

    On my nVidia 6800 equipped Dell PC the screen is rendered in 16 bit Color depth (never had this problem with ANY other software)

    On my brand new MacBook Pro I cannot activate most of the ‘pretty options’ or I don’t even see my avatar.

    Somehow I had hoped that I could enjoy more of Windlight – as I could with the previous First Look …

  52. I think this chart is long overdue. I’d like to point out that only ONE Intel card averages over 10 fps, and most of them average below what appears to be 7 fps. When you consider that most Intel graphics cards don’t support most shader operations at all (even though they say they do) and will crash the program attempting such operations, one has to wonder why they bother making cards in the first place.

    So look and listen Intel graphics users, time for an upgrade, for all our sakes! >)

  53. Spritely Pixel says:

    CPU: Intel Core 2 Series Processor (2660 MHz)
    Memory: 2046 MB
    OS Version: Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2 (Build 2600)
    Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation
    Graphics Card: GeForce 7950 GX2/PCI/SSE2
    OpenGL Version: 2.1.1

    13FPS – this is not a weak machine as can be seen, if i turn on enable open GL Vertex Buffer Objects the frame rate drops to 3 fps. This seems to have happened since i loaded the lastest Nov. 6 2007 nvidia drivers. LL may want to look at the interactions between the driver and Enable VBO.

    I am sure the huge memory leaks (less of one since i turned off object – object occlusion) are not helping either.

  54. I do find that using the Linux version of the viewer gets me a higher frame rate per second than with using a windows client. (yes, even with all the glitz and glam set on)

    My card: EVGA Nvidia Geforce 7100 – 128 mb – PCIx X 12
    My CPU: AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+
    Motherboard: Asus with ~ 1Gig bus speed
    Ram: 4 gigs @ ~1 gig speed

  55. Shakeno Tomsen says:

    Well, I have got a GeForce 7600 GT, and it runs fine, but seems like my performance dies when going to the Environment Editor… I have a more detailed explanation in the forums: http://forums.secondlife.com/showthread.php?t=223621
    I still don’t understand why does this happen. I’ve tried looking at all debugging options but I can’t find a way to fix this problem…

  56. ZigZag Freenote says:

    Very interesting! Too bad cards like 8500 and 8600 didn’t make it to the list. Guess still too few of them for reliable statistics.

    To all those not getting the FPS they should – try reducing the memory setting in the Adv. Graphics page. There seems to be a bug which only manifests with the max setting for your card. Don’t know if it affects all cards and all memory sizes, but it helped me a lot. Try it out and if it helps – SCREEEEEEAM. OK, lol, jira VWR-2763 says they’re on to it, but maybe they need an extra push anyway 🙂

    BTW, did anyone notice that System Requirements page (http://secondlife.com/corporate/sysreqs.php) now lists Intel 945 as supported?! Is it just to silence the screaming masses or did Intel also fix the driver crash? Oh well, I am off to the store for a 8500 today. 512MB, so I can reduce it to 256…

  57. zebadee says:

    my frame rate is good, the hat lag i constantly get is not.

  58. Domchi Underwood says:

    Thanks to new LL charts and all the responses here, now I know that my 8800 GTS is not why I’m getting 60 FPS high in the air and 2 FPS with lot of objects around. 😉

    LL? PLEASE GIVE US SERVERS IN EUROPE!!! Lag is terrible for Europe players… 😦

    Also, please fix the client to work properly with multicore processors. I really don’t see why network lag should have any effect on the typing speed, or why FPS drops while turning around because the objects which are not loaded start loading.

    I haven’t looked at the source, and I don’t claim to know anything about how client is written, but all network traffic should be in its own thread and not affect display in any way! – and from user experience it seems that it isn’t.

  59. Pingback: Linden Frame Rate Performance Article on Blog « PacificRim Exchange

  60. Nik Woodget says:

    Normal SL with my Geforce 7950 X2 and Dual AMD, 2 GB ram I usuall got 80 – 100fps in quiet areas, 40-60fps in busy areas, I have yet to try windlight on that rig, but it will be interesting to see how the performace changes. I wouldn’t imagine too much difference . I can run FEAR maxed out at 60fps.

  61. Ron Crimson says:

    WTF? Who blogged #61 and what’s this got to do with SL?

  62. Lee Ludd says:

    A modest proposal for Linden Lab:

    Create a test-bed sim consisting of a single 256 x 256 flat floor covered with a blank white texture, and connected to a single high end server that is devoted only to this sim and no other.

    Anybody could go there to see what performance they get under the best of all possible conditions server/sim conditions (an empty sim with one texture to download). If performance is poor there, the problem probably lies with the user’s own internet connection and/or computer.

  63. Blinders Off says:

    @36 Jayden:
    “So, here’s what’s different under the hood: we’ve been all-AMD for years, but are moving from the Opteron 270 to the Intel Xeon 5148 – a low-power version of Intel’s new Core 2 Duo based server CPUs. This gives us better performance for fewer watts, while supporting our standard 64-bit OS image. We’ve also doubled the RAM per machine from 2GB to 4GB and moved to a faster SATA disk, which usually won’t make much of a difference, but should reduce the stalls sometimes seen by heavy regions during autosaves. Finally, there are fewer, bigger system fans, and power supply efficiency goes from 67% to 84%; power usage while running the sim process is about 175 watts, vs. 230 for a Class 4.”

    Blades? I think not. And thanks to @46 Melody for posting that info.

    And well… wouldja look at that. We were told that servers were now running on quad cores, but hey… it seems the class 5 servers are using DUO CORES? “Intel Xeon 5148 – a low-power version of Intel’s new Core 2 Duo based server CPUs.” OK, I’m confused LL. Which is it. Point blank question: are you running 4 sims to a quad-core CPU or a duo-core CPU? We’re getting conflicting stories here. If you are stacking 4 sims to a duo-core server, you are flat ripping off your customers… and lying to us about it in the process… again. And that would go a LONG way toward explaining lag problems.

    @41 Celierra Darling: Celierra, we’re not talking tech definitions here. We are talking end-user perceivable lag. I know the difference between FPS, server and network lag and I seriously doubt I am “misleading anyone”. I also assure you that the majority of the lag on SL is NOT caused by “network” issues (at least, not external to Second Life). How do I know that? A very simple test: when you lag to a standstill, ask everyone else around you if they are lagging too. If you have one person from the west coast, a person from the east coast and a person from Australia and they are ALL lagging to a standstill… that’s not network issues. That’s LL internal. And I will agree that at times the internet itself can be blamed for some lag. But not lag to the degree experienced on SL (24/7/365). None of my other internet games lag like that, so I seriously doubt it’s the net. It’s SL server side, pure and simple. And if they are using a Xeon processor instead of a quad core as we’ve been lead to believe (SL BETTER be using dual Xeon processors people), that would explain a lot of it.

    @43 Jetzep. Hey Blinders, give the exterminators a chance to chase all the bugs away will ya? =)

    I got no problem giving folks time to work out the bugs… on Windlight. These other things though have been going on for months and years. I think they’ve had plenty of time to work those out. Again, can’t shore up the foundation while putting new paint on the walls.

    For some reason, Windlight seems to work smoothly (thus far) so Kudos to LL there. But I’ll know a lot more when I try to run it on my 6600 test machine. Like someone above said, it’s a shame to build the platform out of the usability range of the majority of users. Self destructive, actually. Truth is, right now SL is a lot of eye candy and a whole NOT lot of performance. We could have done without a lot of the eye candy for a bit better stability, and that’s the whole point.

    Yeah, windlight looks great. IF people can log on. IF they don’t crash every hour. IF they don’t lag to a standstill. To be able to enjoy Windlight, one actually has to be able to use the system. ; )

  64. Ahzzmandius Werribee says:

    you know, I wrote a nice long rant, then deleted it because I realized that there is no stopping the clueless armchair users in here.

    btw, @65, 2 cpus X 2 cores == 4 cores.

  65. WannaPiEcE Crabgrass says:

    I say its high time these servers be upgraded to some X3220 Quad Cores, or atleast give users a better guide to understanding how to setup their Preferences for better frame rates.

    Either way, nice survey.

  66. Meta Linden says:

    @Blinders – technically we run at one CPU *core* per simulator, which we did before on Class4 servers with a quad-core, single processor machine, and now on Class5 we do so with a dual-core, dual processor machine. There are other physical differences between the machines as you’ve noted and quoted which provide for measurably better performance and reliability on the newer hardware. cited: our CTO Cory’s conversation in the discussion on this post
    Yes, Lag is significantly impacted by Network latency, much more particularly so with Second Life than other MMO games you play, with one significant and hopefully obvious reason- your other MMO Games install all of the content and textures to your hard drive (~ 6 GB) whereas Second Life is user-generated content (~100 TB yes that’s TERAbytes) that has to stream across the network. We’ll be providing more data about this subject in the future, and this is a topic of discussion in my weekly office hours if any of you would like to drill further.

  67. this blog to me screams, if your having problems with SL its our fault. personally i think about 99% of the lag issues has nothing to do with video cards, this is a weak attempt to explain things. you lindens better stop blaming performance issues on the users, for months you made me feel as if my inventory issues were something i was doing wrong, only to admit 2 months later that there was some sort of inventory issue, and now this.. come on if there is a frame rate issue its because your backend is bloated and honestly lag in SL has nothing to do with peoples video cards. THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE!! and this blog is pure nonsense. you should all be ashamed.

  68. Doris Haller says:

    Aaahh, we’re back to my fault again!!

    Blinders Off is right: “It’s not our computers. It’s SL. So suggestion: stop telling us our computers aren’t powerful enough… and fix yours.”

    The windlight viewer is much faster on my old system (which most people blamed for my lag; Nvidia 6600GT, AMD K7 (1050 MHz) Memory: 1536 MB) since the regular one. This is a simple proof that the framerates can be better with different code. (maybe it’s ecause the windlight viewer does not display my skirts?)

    So it IS NOT my machine, it is the SL software.

    In the article I read; “If none of these steps help improve your performance, you may want to consider upgrading your graphics card.”
    Where is the logic in that? If the other users get higher framerates with the same card, then the card is not the problem. What’s the use in upgrading it?

  69. MaxDesoto says:

    @65 Blinders, glad to see you have found some info about the servers used to run sims. Just to clarify, there was a blog post stating that sims run ONE per CORE, and that the Class 5 servers are DUAL-CORE, DUAL-PROCESSOR servers. So there could be up to 4 sims on one physical bit of hardware.
    Now I wish we knew more about the asset servers. 🙂

  70. I don’t know how people can use SL or anything when the frame rates are less than 10fps.

    Anyway, I get a better frame rate in most places using windlight, which is cool, shiny and faster. 😀

    *makes his hair glow* 🙂

  71. Anna Tretiak says:

    I support #20’s request of Quadro FX stats. I usually run SL on a Dell Precision laptop with a Quadro FX 1500M and FPS vary greatly between 10 and 60 depending on who knows what.

  72. Maarek North says:

    I don’t know if anyone actually reads down this far but I recently upgraded from a ATI X700 Pro which was only getting 2FPS… to a GeForce 7950 and I saw no increase in performance. I had a AMD 3000+ 64 Bit processor and 2 gig of ram… I was was pretty pissed and had to have my fix of SL so I decided to just upgrade more, bought a new mobo and processor (Dual Core 6600) with new 2 gig 800 DD4? Ram and now I’m seeing 30+ fps everywhere. This goes to show that its not just your GPU…. The weakest link will bottleneck your whole system!

  73. Pingback: Performance de várias placas gráficas em SL «

  74. netty streeter says:

    well i download it and my fps dropped compared to when i use the normal Sl which i have 30fps or higher i load windlight and i get around 14fps :((

  75. Jacques Groshomme says:

    I have a midrange AMD64 machine with a GeForce 7600, and I get the upper end of the range shown in the chart. I’ve built multiple machines in the same range (about US$500 per machine) and get performance as expected. When I ran with an older video card, I got the expected rates for that machine as well.

    For those who have machines with higher specs and the same video card… it seems like it’s your machine, not SL. I’d guess the likely culprit is your antivirus/antispyware software is causing a bottleneck that is preventing efficient caching, or you are using a wifi connection with a mediocre signal.

  76. Cat Gisel says:

    This is supposed to make me feel better?



  77. Blinders Off says:

    @Meta Linden #69: ” your other MMO Games install all of the content and textures to your hard drive (~ 6 GB) whereas Second Life is user-generated content (~100 TB yes that’s TERAbytes) that has to stream across the network. We’ll be providing more data about this subject in the future,”

    Thanks for responding Meta. So as I understand it, you’re running TWO dual-core Xeons on each server box?

    But as for network latency, I’m sorry, but SL has not always had this lag issue, and lag has gotten worse as time has passed. I remember in early 2005, FPS was in excess of 600 on a fully populated sim. Now it’s consistently under 45 (and please, I’ve already heard the “we now measure FPS differently” line. Like I said, we ain’t idiots).

    Regarding the statements you made above, please allow me to take the “blinders off” and address them directly.

    Yes, other games do install all content and textures on the client system. If I’m right, so should Second Life. I know that items will have to load and rez when first visiting a sim. But after that, all that content should be cached on our local HD, right? And the only time that should change is when we move to a new location or someone alters an item. If however, we are on a sim with no other avs present and are not altering our environment, then SL components too should reside on our local HD and thus be just as perky as Quake or Unreal or any other 3-D game.

    “Second Life is user-generated content (~100 TB yes that’s TERAbytes) that has to stream across the network”

    Are you honestly stating that all 100 terrabytes is streaming across the network at all times? I don’t think so Tim. And even if it WAS, frankly at the fees you’re charging, you should have the servers and backbone to support such streaming. That’s why LL is paid the big bucks. You folks aren’t charging $15 a month for a sim, you’re charging the price of a new car. Those kinds of fees demand excellent service… far better than users are currently experiencing.

    “There are other physical differences between the machines as you’ve noted and quoted which provide for measurably better performance and reliability on the newer hardware”

    From what I’ve read, the primary improvement hasn’t been in speed, but rather in savings of energy for Linden Lab. Cory himself admitted that the end user likely won’t notice better performance between a class 4 and class 5 machine. Let’s get to bottom line: the reason LL went to class 5 machines was energy savings rather than increased performance. SATA’s don’t run inherently significantly faster than IDEs (although upgrading to high-speed SATAs can indeed, improve performance if slower IDEs were used, before, and I’ll grant that). But by LL’s statement during a lag conference, hard drives aren’t accessed that much during game play… so the primary advantage to class 5 was saving LL $$$ in energy consumption– and really don’t offer that much benefit to the sim owner. Yes?

    I mean, I’m all for Class 5 machines. Woopie. Great. But they weren’t the salvation of SL that LL touted them to be, they haven’t eliminated lag, and IMO, stacking 4 sims to a Class 5 box and charging sim owners $1,650 apiece for the privilege (@ a total of $1,180 a month tier fees) to run one server box is just a tad over priced. For $1,650, a dedicated dual-core box would have been warranted (at least… if not a full quad core) and at $295 a monnth tier fees, you should drop the sim owner a prime ham on the doorstep twice a year. LOL

    Just sayin’. 😉

  78. Blinders Off says:

    (Oh, and not to nitpick Meta, ‘cos I do appreciate your reply, but the “Cory Linden” link doesn’t lead to a Cory Linden Link. oops. 😉

  79. Meta Linden says:

    @Blinders – take a look down the discussion thread below that post for the comments from Cory dated December 6, 2006 10:23 AM onward.

  80. Slartibartfast Magicthise says:

    Isabeau Imako (24) – if you find that it’s a virus (like the happy little fanboi said), I’ll eat my brand new iPhone and wash it down with my old iPod.

    Same here – performance takes a hit some days, other days it’s fine, seems to get worse as time goes by. Not just framerates, but textures and objects rezzing, sim border crossing problems, web calls (i.e. SLX), anomalies like momentary freeze-ups, voice failing, etc., etc., etc…

  81. Eclaire Looming says:

    Heads up! SL is in crisis today. Crashes and strange TPs happening to people who have never had them before.

  82. Eclaire Looming says:

    Here’s a new deal for me… try to log on and get the message ‘cannot connect to a version manage.’ What kind of syntax is this? Can someone translate this?

  83. If the doctor tells you that you’ve got a cold and should take some nice hot tea and sleep it over, will you complain to her that “I don’t understand anything about medicine, but I’m not ill, you’re to be blamed for the symptoms I’ve got?” 🙂

    Well, strangely enough, that’s what you’re doing with LL and their patient explanations on how Second Life works…

    For the sake of the argument, I’ve got a MacBook with a Intel GMA 950 (64 MB shared memory), and I get 20 FPS on it… after finding a simple trick: getting rid of rippling water! The issue seems to be simple: ATI and nVidia cards render rippling water in the GPU. Intel cards hardly have any renderers at all, so all has to be emulated in software. By simply turning it off, I got an increase from 0.6 FPS to 20 🙂 Not bad for an unsupported card…

  84. I’ll be the first to agree with those decrying the efficiency of the SL client. I’ve used graphics engines to display more triangles than SL does at one time with more than four times the frame rate on the same computer. But there’s two ways to fix this: Spend months figuring out where the bottleneck is (and if we could all run SL through a profiler on our systems and send the results to LL, that’d be a great help and make it go a LOT faster), OR upgrade your video card. Considering a new video card will make your computer on the whole faster (graphics displaying is one of the major bottle necks in all computing), this isn’t a bad idea. It is, however, the cheap way out for LL.

    But look at the games out now adays, how could you NOT want a new(er) video card to play them?

  85. Ivan Linden says:

    Thanks for the feedback, everyone. This isn’t an simple issue – there are a lot of variables to keep track of and we’re focusing a lot of effort to make Second Life as smooth as possible for as many people as possible. While the above stats may not match to your exact frame rate, you can see from the trends that there is a definite correlation to GPU, even if it’s not the end-all-be-all of troubleshooting.

    Again, thanks. We’ll be digging further into our metrics to help give you guys more info… 🙂

  86. Celierra Darling says:

    @64 Blinders Off: I never claimed that most perceived lag was network lag – I meant that this blog post helps fix FPS lag, which does account for a significant portion of “lag”. By contrast, you seem to blame the entirety of perceived lag on LL’s servers, which is not true. If you look at the chart, you can see that quite a few graphics card models are creating user-perceived lag – I count 10 different models that can only churn out a *median* FPS of less than 5 (the exact proportion of users that this represents is not known to me – are graphics card usage data released with the monthly statistics?).

    I feel that your post may cause confusion between the solutions for low-FPS lag – upgrading one’s own hardware or reducing settings – and server lag – complaining until LL gets their servers upgraded. And there’s no claim that upgrading your graphics card will fix all lag (the post makes it clear that this is about “slower frame rates”), so accusing LL for being deceptive about “lag” is not called for.

  87. Doris Haller says:

    “[UPDATED] Two Thousand Regions Restarting Shortly

    [UPDATE 16 Nov 07, 5:00 p.m. PST]

    Due to some unforseen problems some regions are currently down. Some regions remain to be restarted, and will be down for an unknown length of time before we get everything restored this evening.

    [UPDATE 16 Nov 07, 12:55 p.m. PST]

    It turns out Operations needs to split this task up into smaller batches. Clusters of regions will be restarting throughout the day until the work is done.


    Over the next hour or so, the Operations Team will be assigning new IP addresses to a number of our servers. This will cause approximately 2,000 regions in world to restart.

    Each region will receive an advance warning. However, private estate owners affected by the restart will not be able to defer it through the Estate Tool. In addition, some regions may remain in restart for up to ten minutes.

    We apologize for that inconvenience, but the restarts must complete within a short time in order to properly manage this effort.”

    (Of course comments are closed on this…)

    If you don’t have problems, you create them…

    W h y a r e y o u a s s i g n i n g n e w i p – n um b e r s o n a f r i d a y ???
    Bored? Playful? Nothing in TV?

  88. Blinders Off says:

    @Meta. Thanks. While I’m here, would you please look at the message before your last post and open it out of “moderation” mode. The system glitched and considered it a duplication of a prior post– I think because I quoted an earlier post from you. Thanks.

  89. Blinders Off says:

    @Meta (and Kudos Meta and other Lindens, for wading into the front lines and TALKING with your customers. Whether we agree or disagree, you have my thumbs up. At least it lets us know LL is paying some attention).

    The reason I couldn’t find the Cory reference is because I kept searching for Cory Linden… LOL Finally figured out he was using his real name…

    Cory: “But we are nowhere near maximizing the capacity of the grid machines, so as we continue to improve scaling issues, we will see at least 2 to 3X the current avatar densities ove the entire grid.”

    This was posted in December 2006. Now as much as I respect Cory’s technical knowledge, I have to wonder at this statement. The system was borked back in 12-2006 (almost a year ago) and it’s still borked. It lags all the time, inventory is lost, and even something as simple as group chat doesn’t work. So how can he figure by any stretch of the imagination that the grid machines aren’t maxed out? I’d have to understand what he defines as “maxed out”. To me a computer that lags, is either maxed or bottlenecked, one of the two.

    But bottom line, people are paying $1,650 x 4 = US$6,600 and some $295 X 4 = US$1,880 a month to have their sims stacked four to a server. $1,650 setup and $295 a month, IMO warrants at least a dedicated duo-core, and more likely a quad-core server. I ABSOLUTELY GUARANTEE if you hosted a sim on a duo-core or quad-core server, we would see a major, significant reduction in lag.

    So Linden Lab stacking 4 sims to a quad-core server is, in my opinion, doing a severe disservice to your customers. (at the very least. Blatant, unethical corporate greed might be a better description). Your customers are paying Porche prices and being given Volkswagens.

  90. Blinders Off says:

    @Gwyneth 84: I think your illustration about the doctor is incomplete. No one is telling the doctor “I’m not ill and you’re to be blamed for my symptoms”. I don’t think that illustration applies at ALL to the situation. What we have here is a car that we are renting from a rental company. We can’t get it to accelerate past 40mph, the engine pings, it dies regularly, and the car rental company is telling us we’re either not using the right kind of gas or we don’t know how to drive.

    It’s not the customers that are sick here. It’s Second Life. My computer system runs ALL my other programs just fine, all the way from Unreal to Adobe Photoshop to just about anything I want to slam into the system. So no, we aren’t sick, and the “doctor” telling us we are makes him a quack. And BTW, some of these “patients” know as much about “medicine” as the “doctor”. 😉

    Proof? Why was it that when LL released it’s client code open-source… several major bugs were found by their CUSTOMERS. (yup, the ones that “know nothing” about how SL works). Tsk tsk tsk. I may not know how to fix an automobile, but I can durn sure tell when it’s running lousy…. and I can tell when the mechanic fails to fix it.

    @Celliera 87: No Celliera, I am not blaming ALL of user lag on Linden Lab. I am blaming the MAJORITY of it. And after 3 years of hard core use on this system, I think I have enough experience here to make that judgement. Ever since I have been on this system, Linden Lab has told customers lag is due to everything from them having slow computers (no, I have NEVER had a slow computer), bad graphics cards (again no), too many scripts (our sim is script-controlled), too many textures (give me a break), too many prims (we’re far less than the allowed maximum), or we’re not holding our tongues right. We have cut prims and cut scripts and cut textures and in my case, I increased the power of my computer anually. Wanna guess the results? SECOND LIFE STILL LAGS.

    I’ve been a systems analyst in the computer field for more than two decades. I know a bottlenecked, data-bound, messed up system when I see one, and so do other professionals in the field. I will be the first to admit that the vision on Second Life is amazing. I will also be the first to stand up and say that the implementation is not so spiffy.

    As you yourself mentioned, there are no stats above for how many people are using sub-standard computers and graphics cards. But frankly, even if it did, that would not prove anything one way or the other. The question is: are people with dual core, decent-graphics-card, high-speed cable access systems still lagging? The answer is unequivocally YES. No argument, no doubt, no debate.

    So when I say the dominant cause of lag is server-side, that there are coding bottlenecks and skimping on equipment, I mean just what I say… and I’m misleading or confusing no one. I’m telling the bare-faced truth. All you have to do is read these blogs page after page after page and you will read hundreds of posts of people who agree with me… many of them computer professional.

    The emperor has no clothes. When he decides to get dressed, then we’ll talk. 😉

  91. Blinders Off says:

    Scuse the quad post folks. Wanted to summarize cos I missed stating the main point: Celliera, what I simply mean is that if SL code worked properly, wasn’t bottlenecked, had dataflow working correctly and the asset servers weren’t borked, if the graphics routines were tweaked, if whatever is borking simple TEXT CHAT and GROUP NOTICES was fixed… if there was NO server-side lag, people even with low-power computers could use it, no problem.

    And that’s the simple truth.

  92. concerned says:

    Actually low powered pcs will never be able to run streaming graphics apps well,If you want to run sl at its best stick with ati graphics a x1950pro direct x 9 card 2 gig of ddr2 and an intel core 2 duo 6600 with a decent hd and decent mobo will give you over the 45 fps that is the native sim fps and even on half full sims over 30fps,full sims over 20fps.keep xp…vista is resource hungry annoying even stripped back.If you keep your pc in good shape then sl will run great at those specs if its not then open task manager….you running over 50 processes?try stripping some out if you know what your doing,programs like roxio easy media,joost,any system monitors turn off so they dont start with windows as these can cause major resource hogging or net bottlenecking.

  93. concerned says:

    @89 Blinders you claim to be a system analyst and you use unreal and photoshop as benchmarks,Not being funny but if use use those to judge a system the cobwebs on your ram must be making a great heatsink.

  94. Nulflux Negulesco says:

    Am I the only person with an ATI x1600 and latest drivers (without the Catalyst CC) that cannot see any glow effects? I used the render test:glow option and all I see is a completely black screen.

  95. shai Khalifa says:


    As there’s nowhere else to vent because the blogs are turned off. I’m venting here.

    I paid a lot of money for a couple of big concerts to happen on our beach as part of our 1st birthday celebrations – and to get people coming to a new section of the beach.

    But LL decided to do a rolling restart – and some of the sims didn’t come back online for hours. Now our sim is back up – no one can get off it without being chucked out of the software. That’s TP or just walking.

    Lag is the worst I’ve seen it in months, and I’M NOT HAPPY.

    That’s my say – my apologies for it not being able to be in the right context

  96. Siann Beck says:

    This is great! I have an ATI Radeon X1300, and wondered if a better card would improve performance; this chart makes it clear!

  97. william Fish says:

    I average about 40fps in a filled (object) sim and when it has around 30 people in it i get around 25 fps.

    TO note, I still go to first look isle to test my settings. On #4 and 2 i got well over 200 fps in mouse view, about 150ish fps in normal view.

    Second Life 1.18.3 (5) Sep 20 2007 11:41:23 (Second Life Release)

    You are at 265137.1, 235891.6, 41.2 in Caeshu located at (
    Second Life Server

    CPU: AMD (Brisbane 3600 OC) (2802 MHz)
    Memory: 2047 MB
    OS Version: Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2 (Build 2600)
    Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation
    Graphics Card: 2x GeForce 7600 GT/PCI/SSE2/3DNOW! SLI Mode
    OpenGL Version: 2.0.1
    LLMozLib Version: 1.1.0 (Mozilla GRE:
    Packets Lost: 0/17952 (0.0%)

    Fiber Optics going to house, 1000mbps connection to computer.

    I hardly ever notice any heavy lag when others are complaining… but i’d imagine most of the compainers are using your run of the mill desktop computers built for under 500 us dollars with intergrated *cough* graphics.

    To note, my other computer, a hp laptop has a 200x ATI card in it and still gets about 10fps in most places. about *cough* 2-4fps in full sims lol… BUT still works in SL. LL doesnt support 200x.

  98. Usopp Barbosa says:

    About the difference between SL and other MMO, I noticed something really annoying.. yes it’s true, other games have all objects and texture installed on the client PC, so it runs smooth.. but isn’t SL’ cache supposed to do the same ? I am always in the same area in SL, that means few to no change in objects and textures.. but everytime I logon, SL is downloading every single bit of polygon inside the sim, no matter how big is the cache. I tried 500 and 10mb without change. In fact, the 10Mb cache is more effective, because cache file don’t get massively fragmented (I used to have 3000+ pieces).

    Regarding performance, SL is still a huge resource consumer.. I have AMD X2 5400+ with 2Gb corsair RAM and an ATI X1950Pro 512M.. with 30 – 35FPS if I just look at an empty beach.. sea sun and sky..
    I run crysis at the same FPS.. and UT3 with twice more. the difference is that.. SL looks like a game 10 years ago ^^
    The good thing is that it can only improve.
    At least now we have Windlight. I don’t feel anymore like playing on an old sega mastersystem :p

  99. william Fish says:

    Usopp Barbosa

    I dont have this problem as I too only log into the same place every day. Everything is loaded within seconds.

  100. william Fish says:

    lol Usopp… not to mention a memory hog/leaker. Everytime i have SL running, i can pull up Task manager and just watch SL’s mem usage rise… as if it was the clock counting the seconds going up. AS soon as i close SL, all 1.8gb’s of memory that i normally have when not running SL is back.

  101. U M says:

    shakeshead at 82…….

    When you invest as much as some people have in their computers you expect a UI to give you the same preformace reguardless. halfing the fps just doesnt make sence with you have 512 7900 gtx extreme and 6000+ cpu 125 watt. Not to speak i have a 100mbps fiber optial line…low quility i runthe same as pre first look. But with windlight and UHQ i haveto run low to get the same FPS……..

  102. Ric Mollor says:

    @Blinders Off and all the other detractors

    The problem here is that most of the users of Second Life really don’t have a standard of reference. Very similar to the windows 9x era when many had purchased their *first* computer and accepted crashes, lockups, and data loss as normal. How many blue screens of death did humanity endure without even considering moving to a different operating system? Or even comprehend that it was possible to change operating systems?

    Linden Labs enjoying the benefits of the same consumer ignorance now. It’s users mostly accept the inventory loss, poor performance, and frequent crashes of both the servers and client. They may complain a lot but actually enjoy sharing their stories of Second Life mishaps and problems. The myth that ‘this is cutting edge stuff’ leads them to believe that it can’t be any other way. Cool things are supposed to crash because it is so ‘bleeding edge’. The majority of Second Life users never consider moving to a different virtual world or are even aware that others exist.

    However, unlike Microsoft, Linden Labs has no monopoly lock in. Computer vendors aren’t forced to install their software. Even though Second Life does support complex scripting there doesn’t seem to be any ‘killer apps’ that make the platform a must have. And while SL is frequently promoted as a business platform, Lindens Labs own metrics show that under 200,000 users spent more then $2 USD last month.

    For the most part this is entertainment only. 3D chat with cute avatars and a million sex poseballs.

    The ‘residents’ of SL need to wake up, realize that they have some choices, and start voting with feet. SL is far from the only virtual social world. Take some time to explore the competition and see what the differences are. Perhaps if people start leaving in droves Linden Labs will take the complaints seriously.

    They certainly aren’t now.

  103. U M says:

    I really love windlight. But the FPS is just so bad. Why should i run low quility with this computer. When ( even if its in beta stage ). I said this once i say continue to say it. If you want to run this client at anywhere quality you need a quad core. dual cores just dont have enough power. GPU are inportant but i think the failure to address the possible issues with dual cores and this ranking of GPU(s) just don`t give enough explaination of how to regain FPS that are lost funning anything about LOW quility.

  104. Farallon Greyskin says:


    SL is multi threaded but 90% of the work is done in ONE THREAD, therefor dual core or quad core don’t even matter hardly at all for frame rate. (Though you can then run Blender AND SL at the same time with ease)

    The only reason that the core duo works so much better for SL than the P4 is because it’s a much better chip even when used as a single core.

    The performance of a single core and the video card are all that matter. I’m running an E6700 core duo and an 8800 GTX and the frame rates are exceptional. I get 60 fps in my sim in mouselook (not even looking out over the ocean where it’s well over 100)

    There is one major frame robbing issue with Windlight that I have noticed though. In the old client, UI elemets like the build window, inventory, chat etc slow the frame rate unacceptably. On Windlight it is MUCH WORSE. JUST the inventory and chat window can take frame rate from 40 FPS down to 30. THat is unnacceptable. It was bad before, this is worse. Something must be done to fix this.

    Perhaps run all the UI elements in a seperate 2d window that overlays the 3d viewport? I don’t know, but it’s definately an area that could in some cases almost double peoples frame rate if they have chat, history, friends, mini map and inventory all open at the same time normally.

  105. Distilled1 Rush says:

    I run : 1.86 Core duo 4 GRam a Nvidia 7900GT 256k on a XPS and 10000K DSL ( runs 5200-9000K)

    I get frame rates of 28-38FPS in texture heavy areas. and 45-100+ in empty sims all maxed out on First Look. (custom, to Torlys specs.) I have the GPU AA and shaders at 16x

    have had 2 blue screen lock ups (XPmedia SP2)

    But it seems to run great the main UI I run a slight bit better, but on both I have noticed a longer than usual rez time for everything.

  106. Eclaire Looming says:

    Log-ins not working and the on-line headcount dropping this Saturday nite. Anyone home at Linden Labs?

  107. archie lukas says:

    AMD 3000Mhz
    Geforce 7800
    4Mb cabled network, hardwired ethernet
    2mb RAM
    Location: Rule Britannia (hint)

    Frame rate 30 -35 fps

    Notice I avoided one really nasty bottleneck -wireless broadband, its not reliable enough to transmit that amount of data stream. Use a wired ethernet cable and even an older machine like mine can outperform newer processors and so far away from the LA smog too.


  108. sk8rat Snook says:

    @Nulflux re: virus scanners,

    if you go to all this trouble (multiple virus scanners, at least 1 running at all times), and you still occasionally get INFECTED (as distinct from simply receiving a virus via email or web-browsing, that gets detected & dealt with by the scanner – a distinction that many mom-n-dad users still don’t ‘get’), then I seriously suggest you look at your BEHAVIOUR, probably your web-browsing behaviour.

    not only have i personally never had a serious virus infection (other than occasional minor ad/spyware that usually came bundled with a P2P app, and even that was years ago), but earlier this year i STOPPED USING ANTIVIRUS software, except for Windows Defender (rather basic, but low-overhead protection from ad/spyware) and the occasional scan using AdAware2007(free) & RootKitRevealer. i was tired of the bloat of modern a/v packages, and felt i’d learned enough behavioural techniques to avoid them (i’m a small-business IT consultant). so far i’ve been proven right.

    i use Firefox almost exclusively, with the NoScript pluggin, and only allow scripts to run from websites that i’m familiar with and trust.

    i use 1 firewall, my hardware wifi router’s – i don’t use or trust a software firewall unless absolutely necessary (eg away from home/work when using a public wifi).

    not only do i not open unexpected email attachments, i almost never open any of the spam i get – it NEVER has anything to offer me – so i avoid most possibilities of pickup up malware from HTML spam.

    i also use the MVPS.org HOSTS file, and only update it every few months (i’m lazy), which blocks most banner ads (especially those on torrent tracker & social networking sites).

    and i can small a phishing scam a mile away. financial institutions (etc) don’t put links to their online banking sites in their emails any more.

    i’ve always thought it a little ironic (and even amusing in a sad kind of way) that those who install multiple a/v packages (and suffer their very significant overhead) are the ones who still get infected, which only proves that viruses still get through even the a/v scanners with the highest detection rates.

    computer security & malware avoidance is MORE about behaviour & education & awareness than it is about the technology and what a/v software you use.

    as such, i DON’T advise doing what I do for most ordinary computer users. but it demonstrates my point 🙂

    what amused me even more was the person (Isabeau) to whom you gave that advice is a Mac OSX user. the statistical likelihood of her being infected by a virus is negligible compared to any Windows user (for the time being ;-). i’d bet real money her lag/performance issues lie somewhere other than a virus infection!

  109. sk8rat Snook says:

    after reading this entire thread so far, i have a few observations.

    1) as a generalisation, Windows PCs have always had huge variability in performance and stability no matter what calibre of hardware, due to a wide range of well understood reasons (to the technically inclined at least). that sets the backdrop for this whole sorry thread, as well as the reality facing any app developer & online service provider, inc SL.

    this is guaranteed to result in many of the “but why is mine so bad compared to the average?” posts here. as an online service provider, it’s virtually impossible to _individually_ help people with such problems. it’s YOUR hardware & internet connection, they could spend hours trying to help you (us) personally and go out business in the process. YOU either need to learn the detail and fix it yourself, or get/pay someone to do it for you. the nirvana of effortless perfect computing is no where in sight, so stop trying to pretend it is.

    from LL’s perspective, when it comes to performance & fps, unless a problem is reproducible, sampling performace figures via their own internal mechanisms (inc automatical regular feedback from the SL viewer itself) to look for trends (and then investigate further) is about all they can do. hey presto, they post this blog!

    2) that said, LL/SL are not unique. there’s lots of very competent users here who obtain the performance they expect commensurate with whatever level of hardware they have, in other 3D environments.

    this ALSO continues to point a finger at SL server-side issues.

    3) Blinders Off’s tirade about the justification of LL charges for a sim’s hardware may or may not have merit. i’m assuming that LL’s charges are commensurate with their overall business cost, NOT JUST THE SIM’S SERVER cost. i don’t believe they’re open-book about such costs, so who can really say what’s reasonable & what’s not, other than by voting with your wallet & going elsewhere?

    that said, aside from the initial setup cost, when I first found out a private sim costs nearly US$300 / month i was staggered. i wander around all sorts of places in SL at all times of the day & night, and see places beautiful and ugly, BUT MOST ARE TYPICALLY EMPTY or very lowly populated. and i wonder, who can afford to pay this month in month out, and either barely use it, &/or not charge users/visitors to it? obviously there’s people out there very passionate about their SL!

    but then as one other user pointed out the elephant in the corner of the room – the masses who camp out to receive a SL$pitance from the business/sim owner (presumably as a ploy to keep little green dots on the map so that new visitors stay longer than 30 seconds?), apparently unwilling to invest even a very small amount of money into their SL experience, but who will happily spend $hundreds to upgrade their hardware. i don’t get it… even before i upgraded my laptop i got far more enjoyment from what’s INSIDE SL than how well it did or didn’t perform on my old or new laptop.

    4) i’ve long wondered if my being on the other side of the planet from LL (Australia) where ping times are typically 200-300ms to US servers, impacts SL performance, including fps. other comments here begging for SL servers closer to them suggests this is the case. anyone got any detail here? is it technically practical for LL to sprinkle servers over the globe without encountering the same problems within their own network? i know nothing about colocation issues…

    5) on the main viewer or even the latest WindLight, my fps ranges from 10 to 30 _minute to minute_ even second to second within 1 sim where all textures have been cached already, ONLY PARTLY DEPENDING ON WHERE I LOOK, on a MacBook Pro (2007 = Core2Duo, 2GBram, nVidia8600M GT, & stripped-back Vista) & 8Mbps ADSL, with no other apps & no other network traffic.

    for example, i can get 25+ fps on my land on the sim, move 10-20m away & drop to 10-15fps, go back to my original position but not recover to 25fps.

    am i missing something? when my fps varies like that, & going to a bare sim & getting30+ FSP only further implicates SL server-side issues as the cause of lag &/or low fps?

    6) to Blinkers Off, Bob Blunderfeld and others who appear so disgruntled with LL, and as Ric Mollor said, why don’t you put your money where you mouth is and go elsewhere? sounds like you’ll be a lot happpier (maybe), AND if enough of you are so unhappy & leave it will provide LL with further incentive to fix fundamental issues like this! der!

  110. U M says:

    @102 then that is old thinking with pre first look assumptions.

    If this wasw 1 year or more ago I say ok. But they have worked some of the UI to better use todays standards of cpus. The old concept of turning off one core falls in this same out of date thinking.

    Sorry if you thinking was the case, then we all be turning off the cores and running single at even worse fps rates.

  111. U M says:

    oops i made a mistake sorry for the double posting…..it was to Farallon Greyskin

    @ 103 Farallon Greyskin then that is old thinking with pre first look assumptions.

    If this was 1 year or more ago I say ok. But they have worked some of the UI to better use todays standards of cpus. The old concept of turning off one core falls in this same out of date thinking.

    Sorry if you thinking was the case, then we all be turning off the cores and running single at even worse fps rates.

  112. Damona Rau says:

    One qustion @LindenLabs:

    Since at least 1 week i see slowdowns in SIM and Physics FPS on many SIMs. With that the local frame rate fluctuates also. Whats happend with all the SIMs? I see it most on private Estates. At my home we have heavy problems with that. My Landlord looks often at the script performance, but there is nothing bad, but still the SIM FPS (and Physics FPS) slows down till 1!!! this is a permanent fluctuation.

    It would be also good, that you provide some tools for landowners to see the script performance, because not at every time the Landlord is reachable, but the customer services gives only the help “Look at Region/Estate tools”.

  113. AWM Mars says:

    I’ve been saying for sometime, you don’t need a top of the range GC, although it helps. My nVidia 7950 GTX gives me awesome fps and it is not expensive.
    I can run SL Windlight Firstlook in ‘Ultra’ mode and get excellent views (often at 50+fps). Anymore than 45fps is really a waste as the sim server only updates at 45fps.

    Having 2+gb DDR2 ram, and a fast HD setup (SATA II) is an avantage as it helps load already stored textures etc. Keeping the HD defragmented is another plus as this speeds up the deliver and locating of the stored information.

    Reducing particles (I set at 0 unless required for a movie capture), also eases the situation.

  114. Doris Haller says:

    Honestly, I would fire the person who is responsible for changing the IP-numbers on a friday.

  115. U M says:

    shakeshead…………all depends on your location and how many agents are in that location………details details

  116. Antonio Rocco says:

    Gotta love the tech support solution of “Your hardware sucks, you need to buy better hardware.”

  117. Blinders Off says:

    @92 Tell me Concerned… what would you use as performance benchmarks… programs that people seldom or never use? I think programs like Quake and Unreal make excellent performance benchmarks. They make maximum use of both graphics cards and CPU and are prime examples of great programming without overtaxing a system. They automatically adjust to the computer the person is using. I’ve used these programs on just about every 3-D based graphics card I’ve ever owned and they’ve never failed to perform acceptably within the framework they are operating. As for my mentioning Photoshop; that is a big program. Lots of features. And when I can run Photoshop while running half a dozen other programs and NONE of them crash… that’s the point. And the fact that I have worked as a systems analyist is the reason I realize all that is important– regardless of what computer eliteists might believe. 😉

    @97 Ussop: Bingo. Another person who can see through the fog. Kudos. Yes, SL is supposed to operate off the system cache, which is a point I made earlier. You are right. The folks that claim Unreal and Quake are operating off the “client HD” seem to be tunnel-visioned and forget that SL also operates by caching to the client PC… and that both Unreal and Quake are 3-D,virtual reality systems that do indeed network among millions of users… far more than network through SL. And they work just fine, in some of the heaviest firefights one can imagine. Two dozen or more players, an equal number of NPCs, all interacting with no apparent lag whatsoever. Now agreed, on smaller systems with limited graphics cards there will be some noticeable latency, but if one has even a single-core computer with any kind of decent graphics card, the graphics are smooth and awsome. So this nonsense about “SL doing more than other systems” is just hooey. Once a sim has loaded on a client computer, SL should operate just as quickly (if not faster) than those heavy-action intensive games. The fact that it DOESN’T is evidence to what we’ve been saying– the platform is designed improperly and is not performing as it should.

    @101 Ric: First of all, we are not “detractors”. SL itself detracts from the user experience. We call a spade a spade. We’re not “detractors” because we have our eyes open and have the guts to stand up and say, “SL isn’t working right and we’re not getting what we pay for”. Everyone has their opinions. Anyone that thinks SL is running just fine… well, wanna buy some prime swampland at ludicrous amounts of money? 😀

    You do go on in your post to make some very valid points. However, I disagree with the observations and solutions. First, you claim that SL doesn’t have a monopoly like Microsoft. Sure they do. People invest large amounts of time and money into SL, only to later discover it doesn’t work properly, and how do they recoup that (although I know of some who have indeed voted with their feet). And at this time, can you point to another board out there that has the versatility of SL (there will be, I know, but there isn’t now). When that happens, SL will undoubtedly lose a lot of the extremely small market share they hold now as people jump ship. But for now, yeah, in the VR world SL is pretty much a monopoly, at least as much as Microsoft is in the OS world (there are other OSs… but without the stranglehold of Microsoft).

    But “walk with your feet”. Nice sentiment. Totally unrealistic. Bottom line: LL just doesn’t care. There are always more customers where those came from. LL has made that perfectly clear in past dealings. They don’t give a rat’s end who leaves. The only thing it might do is make SL a distant memory to the people who do leave, and many, many have done so (like 95% of all those who have ever used SL)… but it doesn’t solve the problem.

    I don’t like the idea that gasoline is going up to $4 a gallon, but leaving the U.S. isn’t the solution. The solution is to protest and hit the regulators where it hurts (not that such is going to happen. This is the “apathy” generation, not the 60s).

    In the case of SL, improving things means letting LL know what you think. I guarantee you the increased openness of LL now is due to the fact that in the past people have done just that, and lamblasted them for their closed, uninformative attitude. A lot of the positive changes on SL you see now are the result of people hitting LL again and again until the company realized this just might be important. Estate Tools and Group Roles and Group communications (lousy as they are) are the result of past protests at lack of such tools. And future implimentations on SL will be yet be the result of people having the guts to stand up and say “I don’t like this” because frankly, LL doesn’t seem to pay much attention to “pretty please”. They’re a corporation, they’re $$$ based, and unless people protest loud and hard, their wishes seem to have little import. Sad fact, but a fact nevertheless.

    @sk8rat: Loved your post (and your name) right down to item #6, then you got goofy. New sk8r: if not for me and people like me, a lot of the nice features you’re enjoying on SL right now wouldn’t exist. I could easily turn your recommendation around on you and say “If you don’t like our posts, stop reading the blog”. The “SL, love it or leave it” nonsense is nearsighted and gets really old. If you want to brown nose LL, go ahead, but don’t badmouth us because we have the gnards to stand up to LL. At the prices people are paying for LL, the server should be thrown in free. (Which btw, price restructuring is the current effort we’re making with LL. So if you eventually see prices drop, you know who to thank. If not, you know who to blame… not only LL but all the people who didn’t have the guts to stand up and complain about prices. Sheep will be sheered).

    Another bit of info for all the LL brown-nosers who keep saying “If you don’t like SL, leave” (gees, I get tired of that no-brain statement). At one time, SL ran at 600+ FPS and a fully populated, full scripted private-island sim had no problem operating on just about any decent computer going. So next time you think we’re off-base for complaining about how SL is running, you might want to take a time out and consider what you’re being handed for your $5000+ a year.

    Neither me nor others are anit-Linden Lab. We see potential in SL and would like to see it perform as it should. But at the way things have been going, many of us are no longer pro-LL either. The system has all kinds of new, eye-candy toys— and the foundation is crumbling. Sorry some folks can’t see that, but then, that’s why I sport my name in the blogs. Time to wake up to reality.

    If SL keeps going as it is, eventually you will see it degrade to a ghost town or disappear from the map entirely. If a competent competitor appeared on the market today, SL would very likely lose the majority of it user base within a week, decreasing significantly every week thereafter. Then where will “your world” be?

    If you want SL to stay on the market, ya better start speaking up and letting LL know what needs fixed.

  118. Blinders Off says:

    @114 AWM… hey, sorry to point out, but the 7950 GTX *is* high-end graphics card.

    @115 Doris: Lots of folks have expressed the same sentiments. LL has been asked over and over to stop scheduling major changes for Wed, Thu and Fri and switch such to Mondays and Tuesdays instead. How many, many times have such changes borked SL all weekend long until the staff could return on Monday and fix it? But I will say this: at least LL is doing better these days about fixing problems on weekends. I still have to question though why it is that a company like LL, with an INTERNATIONAL community, by their own claims 50% outside the US, doesn’t have a full 24/7/365 support staff in all aspects of operation.

    Let me see… 10,000 sims+ @ about $295 a month operation fees, plus membership fees, plus all the othter income they derrive from various sources, comes to… (clickity clickity click)…. GASP! Yeah, there might be some “extra staff” money in there.

    @117 Antonio: short, sweet and right on the button. Preceisely what folks have been trying to say here.

    My short-and-sweet response to LL: fix the servers, and a lot of the need to upgrade customer systems will disappear.

    (And that said, folks, if you can afford to buy a dual-core with a good quality, reasonably-low-cost graphics card, do so. It improves not just SL, but your entire computing experience. These days you can purchase a dual-core computer with a 7950 or 8800 graphics card included for under $750. If you can’t afford it, understandable, but if ya can…. it’s worth it. That said, you shouldn’t have to do that just to use SL. And THAT is the primary issue.)

  119. Chronic Skronski says:

    Sling Trebuchet: Many users camp in order to earn mini-micro amounts of RL money.
    The way SL is going, those impoverished starving masses are going to need expensive high-end machines to get reasonable performance.
    The dots don’t join up here.

    Those poor parasites. You know, getting rid of campers would also lower concurrent logins, which would improve performance. I think this is a better solution than suggesting better computers for zombies.

  120. Ric Mollor says:

    Does anyone really know what happened Friday? The various blogs are saying everything from a change in colo providers, to changing of IPs to prevent a DDOS, to a massive griefer raid with LL changing IP addresses on the affected sims to prevent remote control.

    Click through on my name to see one of the reports.

  121. Pepplar Sklar says:

    Yes Blinders Off , you are the smartest person ever. No one in SL support is smarter that you. Congrats. Where do I put the gold sticker ?

  122. Eclaire Looming says:

    So many people work so hard to try to do so many wonderful things in SL…the ceo of SL has no shame for letting them down now.

  123. Blinders Off says:

    @122 Pepplar, at least I’m smart enough to not go trolling and attacking individuals because their opinions differ from mine. ; )

    And I’m smart enough to know that SL could be working a LOT better than it is, and that a lot of time is being wasted on eye candy that could be spent in making SL more lag free, bug free, and stable.

    When someone finds it necessary to attack others for their views, I’d say they have their own issues they need to examine a little more closely.

  124. U M says:

    @122 hahah i never said it wasnt are you lost ……

  125. U M says:

    Anyone else get a pretty funy error message saying either your setting are too high or your drivers need updating! LOL this is turning into to laughablle and totally nightmarish beta testing. Since when does a computer onlonger met the spec to have my setting like this. someone screwed up………….

  126. Blinders Off says:

    BTW, I do want to THANK LINDEN LAB for the above chart. Seriously. Despite all the debate here, that chart comes in really handy for those who are wanting to compare graphics cards. I’ve been looking for a comparative performance chart like that for at least 2-3 years, and for some reason the graphics cards manufacturers don’t want to provide one. The above chart appears to be a reliable, 3rd-party, data-based evaluation of graphics cards performance. SL itself totally aside, that is a valuable thing that I saved to my hard drive for future reference.

  127. Dr Boyoma says:

    I am running a PC (XP) with a NVIDIA GeForce 8600 GT Video Card with 512 mb ram on a 20/5 mb broadband connection and have no lag problems at all.

    The posted chart makes it easy to visualize how it all flows together. Thank you.

    Dr Boyoma

  128. Nulflux Negulesco says:

    Of course it’s amusing Sk8rat – none of us new she uses a Mac and I don’t think anyone expects me to be psychic. You on the other hand must be able to see into the future to predict and prevent viruses using the power of your own mind. I am truly impressed.

    While you do not hear as much about viruses on Macs they most certainly do exist and it would be foolhardy to rule out a virus
    infection simply because you use a Mac.

    My surfing habits? You do realize that you can get infected without even surfing the web – some networks – in particular cable networks – put you at risk simply by connecting. My experience in the field of computer repair has caused me to be completely paranoid about virus infection and that would explain my extensive use of scanners.

    Beyond that, it is entirely possible that my PC can become infected while I’m not using it (ever hear of sharing your PC?). You don’t have to search for porn to get a virus – searching for free screensavers carries a similar risk so questioning my behavior in this instance is not a valid tactic.

    Simply put, if you don’t run scanners you don’t know you’re infected until it’s already too late.

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  133. Shawn Broderick says:

    Looking for a new Dell system to run SL! Are the new NVIDIA 8600m gt and 8800m gt Geforce cards recommended and compatable? Thank you….I’m new at the computer tech stuff……Shawn

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