Tip of the Week #10: How to use the new Search

We recently announced exciting news about our new Search project, and as highlighted in Jeska’s post, you can try new Search NOW in our Release Candidate viewer.

One of the aspects I love most about working at Linden Lab is creating friendly guides to new features, especially those which you may’ve waited a long time for. Search is both special and expected in this regard, so this Tip of the Week is about how to use the new Search. It includes:

  • How to get started with the Search bar
  • How to find people, places, objects on parcels, etc.
  • Using special Google operators (not all of these apply) to do advanced searches (at long last!)
  • A couple neat interface improvements: resizable Search window and easier teleporting

… all in the warm, memorable style you’ve come to expect from my passion for helping you to live a better Second Life.

(And yes, waiting for this exciting announcement is why I didn’t post this TotW last week!)

Remember, this is not yet a part of the so-called main viewer, so if you want to try new Search, you’ll need to use our Release Candidate test viewer, which you can learn more about.

Get your search on!

Fun with my autograph after vectorizing it (small)

Torley Linden is a Product Manager & more who regularly contributes to the Official Linden Blog. See more Tips of the Week. I know, I know, I’m a WindLight teaseit’s coming!

About Torley

Who am I? See http://torley.com/
This entry was posted in Community, Creativity & Ideas, Resident Experience, Tips & Tricks. Bookmark the permalink.

150 Responses to Tip of the Week #10: How to use the new Search

  1. Kittrannia Cassini says:

    video not available?

  2. Pingback: New Search with Today’s Release Candidate « Official Linden Blog

  3. Bob Perry says:

    TORLEY LINDEN ROCKS!!!!!!!

  4. McPhenius Swain says:

    Great tutorial Torley! This new search will be a warm welcome to finding things in SL!

  5. Cemetery Slade says:

    Finally a better search engine => Now work on the lag that happens every wheres. I play on other online games on the comp and on consoles. And I never see lag there. So what gives here. I personally pay $72 a year for membership. And have a respectable and popular store going for me. My customers and I would apperciate this fix =>. Lets fix this lag problem.

  6. Jeska Linden says:

    @ Cemetery – You might want to check out this blog entry for more information on Lag.

  7. jeaniesing trilling says:

    Questions questions…. how are the new results sorted? by relevance? by amount paid for an ad? by traffic? by alphabetization? I cannot, yet, glean the rhyme or reason with the new format

  8. Ann Otoole says:

    better search for who? its great if you want to spend $500USD a week on a classified ad. It’s great if you have a sim to fill with 80 sleekbots and 14000 prims in a skybox with the landing point in a store on ground level. people will never see the 14,000 bogus for sale prims. just the ones in the store on ground floor. and the 80 sleekbots ensures the bogus prims for sale will be at the top.

    start over and outsource this aspect of sl totally because you have really screwed all but the deepest of pockets in sl. the little people don’t have any chance of being seen. good job.

  9. Ben says:

    when trying to play, “were sorry, video no longer available”

  10. Jeska Linden says:

    @ jeaniesing – In the new All Search, results are returned by “relevance“, based on how well the page matches the query, how close the multiple words are together and by how many inbound links there are to the page. Inbound links are created by references in top picks, classifieds, landmarks, parcels and groups. Traffic is also included in the relevance ranking.

  11. Thanks for the help and fab Search blog post, Jeska!

    And thanx for the comments!

    @Kittrannia Cassini & Ben: Pardon, this may be a YouTube error because I recently made the video public. Please clear your web browser’s cache, restart it, and try again. I’ll be watching if the problem doesn’t clear up soon enough. 🙂

  12. Raudf Fox says:

    I can’t see the video.. it keeps saying it’s unavailable. So, I log into You Tube and it says the video is private. I’d love to watch it!

  13. Becky Pippen says:

    “were sorry, video no longer available” ??

  14. Isandra Willunga says:

    Direct Link to the Tutorial Video:

  15. @Raudf Fox, Becky Pippen, and Isandra Willunga: I appreciate the heads-up and direct link! I’ve updated the original post to include it!

  16. Donegal Ofarrel says:

    Is it me, or does the audio on this video clip sound somewhat computerised? Hey Torley, lay off the weed dude!

  17. Weedy says:

    No land sales options/filters?

  18. Weedy says:

    I presume the status quo on landbot exclusivity prevails?

    Nothing like blocking 99.99% of your residents from the land market favoring a handful of bot runners.

    Oh well, nobody suggested SL was universal.

  19. Ann Otoole says:

    give us the sticky option to not include traffic as a factor in searches. then it might become viable. until then we will still have a very large percentage of sl just being bogus sleekbot zombies used by dishonest parcel owners to boost their positions in the search results. it is just dishonest so get rid of traffic. and the search engine needs to filter out duplicate items. make it a job to populate the sim with bogus for sale boxes.

    really though, go look at slexchange. while slexchange search could use a few features it is clearly superior to any search that includes traffic or easily gamed factors like the sl search continues to promote. people looking for something do not want to find nude beaches unless they are specifically looking for nude beaches. make truth in advertising part of the TOS and delete accounts that violate the policy.

    make search viable. stop the tradition of sl search being a common joke in the community.

  20. Ann Otoole says:

    some information on the “featured classifieds” is in order. so far all i have seen appear is the same ads over and over. we all know Adam & Eve pays you a lot of money for that ad. but hey maybe we only need to see it once ok? and it appears that your setting up for a bidding battle on classifieds. to be seen you have to bribe LL with a lot of cash. this is just unfair. if this is how it will be just publish this fact so all but the top 20 merchants in sl can cancel classifieds since they become useless.

    lots of work to do still. but you must begin to look at the fairness aspect of this business. bots and gaming things needs to be handled proactively. if there is no way to specifically buy a featured ad then turn that back off or tell us exactly how to game it so our ads can be seen. note the reference to gaming again. the truth in advertising problem needs to be addressed in a very basic way. get caught padding with bogus data then your gone. remove traffic and hey sl might become a great place again as far as search goes. i.e.; the garbage on the popular places tab needs to be what you study. and go look to see how many truely unique residents are in those places. i.e.; make bots a TOS violation and sell subscriptions to the data to onrez so they won’t have to use a bot to catalog sl.

    use your heads in an honest and objective manner please. throw out the old concepts and traditions. make it a fair marketplace.

  21. inacentaur says:

    is there a way to search object descriptions or add tags to objects to facilitate searching (and to make things with generic names less obscure)?

  22. Jeska Linden says:

    @ inacentaur – Object names and descriptions are included in search. So feel free to use those spaces to list tags to help with search!

  23. Simon Nolan says:

    Oooooo! Kinda like Mac’s Spotlight in SL. Yay!

  24. Carbine Cat says:

    Thanks Torley, for another useful video. That feature looks interesting, and nice also to point out its limitations straight away to help stem the people who will bitch about it.

  25. lali Aji says:

    I have to agree with a few others above. While search is in terrible need of a update and we are all happy to finally see it, Linden Labs NEEDS to find a way to keep the system a LOT more honest and a bit more fair in regards to all. While I realize it is of no small task for Linden Lab, implementing a few new TOS additions such as the banning of camping chairs, dance pads, land bots and any other device that would be used in a deceptive demeanor would be welcome by 90% (the other 10% would of course be the ones who use those things) of the SecondLife population, not to mention a huge help with the lag situation!

    Come on LL, do yourselves and your citizens a favor and work on implementing some new TOS before you release the new search. No one is asking you to police, only to regulate before you allow the wealthiest and the dishonest all of the advantages to your new souped up search system.

  26. mimi says:

    @10 ”
    Inbound links are created by references in top picks, classifieds, landmarks, parcels and groups. Traffic is also included in the relevance ranking.”

    Which part of the landmarks count? The amount of landmark givers on the ground or the actual landmarks used by people? In what way do parcels count? And which part of the groups count? Its not possible to link to places there directly right? Or do the notices count? Does the amount of members count for group links relevance?

  27. janie matahari says:

    i know this is off topic and JIRA is against my religion. past two or three nights in a row, group IMs and map searche have been busted.

  28. inacentaur says:

    i seem to be suffering the dancing colors issue with the new client. and possibly rezzing issues.

  29. Suu Miles says:

    I think I like the new search, thanks a lot!

    Works much better and more accurate than the old version but the only think I notice I don’t really like it won’t minimise! And I’d like to see a “shopping” category in the pop down menu, and even better something like “educational” and erm…. why is the “help” gone again? Wouldn’t that be a nice thingy for newbies to stick to? Why not make it easier for them to find assistance? I don’t really get that…

    And a note on Torley’s video, which I had no probs viewing here on the website, it’s good to see that you have rezzing issues as well, a pain in the *** or rather a shoe in the bum, to put it the sl way… so PLEASE fix that rezzing issue soonest!

    It’s a pain for shop owners if things decide to rezz 5 times in a minute!

  30. inacentaur says:

    another thing – is there a way to have the exact coordinate of an object be included?

  31. Paulo Dielli says:

    Main question isn’t answered yet:

    How do you prevent people from making hundreds of 1-prim plywood boxes with only keywords to get higher in search???

  32. Pingback: The Grid Live » New Release Candidate, New Search and How to Use It

  33. Atashi Toshihiko says:

    Why would my parcel, which I pay to appear in land search, not show up in the new search? Waikiti Mall & Beach, it’s flagged to appear in search, the L$30 is charged every Tuesday morning, but it doesn’t appear in the new search all. The classified ad does appear but from the classified ad, if I click on the parcel link in the classified, I get an XML error and a code dump:
    This XML file does not appear to have any style information associated with it. The document tree is shown below.

    I have looked at some other parcels and they seem to work ok, i.e. listing all the objects for sale, so I know that the new search does work in some cases, just not all cases. 😦

  34. libertine Valeeva says:

    well…

    I play the game of Second Life. Some days I win, some days I lose.

    This morning, on the current version of Second Life, I could search the word “Basic” and find the groups and lands I and my crew have formed in the top ten listing, from second place down.

    Tonight, using the new search engine in the Release Candidate Viewer, I appear virtually nowhere in any of my carefully planned approach.

    I lose. For now…

    🙂 Peace out. Libby

  35. Ann Otoole says:

    @31 Paulo the only answer is for Linden Research to make fraud and deceptive practices an immediate permanent ban offense with no appeal. Then when enough citizens file abuse reports in a 24 hour period to get the attention of Linden Research they can go look and confirm. then delete the business owner’s account and ban their machine from SL. If Linden research did this you would see far less blatant ethics violations as the legitimate businesses discontinued gaming the system and just paid 100% plus some of all income in sl to Linden Research for classified ads.

    Or Linden Research could make bot use a TOS violation, make deceptive advertising a TOS violation, Remover the bogus and totally useless traffic metric from relevancy in anything, engineer the search to use lexical analysis to look at the structure of descriptions for actual sentences, etc, not just keywords over and over, and delist replicated prims placed purely for advertising gaming and suspend accounts that repeatedly attempt to game the system.

    There are few places that should show up in a search for what i focus on. only one or two should show higher in the list because they really do have more content for sale with the specific keywords involved.

    I.e.; to use the example given elsewhere, if you are looking for frogs then only places or people with frogs should show up. when a welfare facility that has no frog business, frogs, nothing to do with frogs at all appears in the results that account should be removed from sl permanently and the sim sold to someone honest. its as simple as that. if you are looking for welfare thats all you should see in the results are places that hand out free money called welfare. etc etc.

    just because there are 100 sleekbots running in a sim does not mean that sim should be listed any higher than any other business.

    since there is no way to prove if a bot is a bot then traffic needs to be removed or the source closed and the system secured and bot use be disallowed totally.

    and an exact schedule of advertising fees be published with a guarantee of placement. have the legal staff study that one. just saying higher fees might place your ad higher is not going to cut it. your going to have to start playing by the associated laws and ethics where advertising is concerned.

    this isn’t ebay. Or is it?

  36. Amethyst Rosencrans says:

    The new search seems to find less than the old one and be less intuitive and less useful. It is very slow on my computer but it does look better. I can’t even find my items or locations when I search for anything but their exact name. Are there bugs that are preventing me from finding things I am looking for… or is this what we can expect from the new search?

  37. Ann Otoole says:

    well theres 2 identical blogs for this one so ones is going to be removed. probably the one with more nonsupporting truthful comments so save your comments out to post into whichever one they keep. right now theres like 4 blogs all with the same topic.

  38. Ambergris says:

    There was mention about “featured listings”. I am interested to know how those will be picked? Will it be based on how much you pay for your classified ad? Traffic? Or will they be chosen randomly? Will they rotate: every hour, week, day?

    Obviously those featured on the front of the search will get more business. I am hoping the way those featured listings are chosen will be equitable.

    I hope the choice IS random, and I hope they rotate often – maybe different listings come up each time you open the search?

  39. Ann Otoole says:

    @ Ambergris… Probably just the businesses listed in one way or another on the sl website. like the “A List” so-called fashionistas on the fashion page. they won’t allow anyone else such visibility so don’t expect Linden Research to do an about face and grow ethics anytime soon. its all about taking money. period. and they don’t want to hear anything except compliments anyway so we are just wasting our time. small businesses and the very people that make sl a great place are not wanted. empty corporate ghost town sims visited by the favored aryian nation griefer groups is all that is wanted in sl now. the evidence is stacking up real high to that point.

  40. Rene Erlanger says:

    have to agree with you Ann. This NEw SEARCH seriously needs revision and the parameters chosen carefully. It’s up for manipulation as it stands

  41. Shaylee Blackadder says:

    Alredy video not avail?? Pls advise us on the MAIN SL LOGIN PAGE when it does become avail again so that we know to come back.

    PLEASE???

  42. Turner says:

    Will you remove the unfair differences in parcel descriptions before you introduce the new search? I can only use 125 characters but have seen parcel descriptions using 200…That is totally unfair!

    Furthermore the new search needs to include vendors somehow, also ones with profitsplit…How could mall owners every compete otherwise? If you you don´t do that…You will in fact KILL a lot of well established malls.

    You are attacking the way business is done at the moment…There will be winners and losers due to the changes…But by the sounds of it, the losers have a (again) a lots of room to game this search engine. That´s as far as I can see, the best thing about it.

    By the way, to some of the traffic count opponents, yes camping makes the traffic numbers somewhat irrelevant. However if you take it away, then one would split up land into a bunch of 16 qm parcels to make up for all the disadvantages the new mechanisms have created. It´s not one big messy entry then, it´s a swamp of small ones.

    Rather stick to the old, folks…This is getting steering you into a search data dumpster.

    What about simply removing the “all” search entirely? You will never get it fair enough, cose it´s comparing apples with peers

  43. Turner says:

    Jeska says: “….Inbound links are created by references in top picks…”

    Does this particular bit refer to the picks in peoples profiles?

    If so it would explain, why certain groups have a run on new members at the moment (which are probably all the same rl person)

    Some groups are up from 50 members to more than 500 in less than a month. I wonder why that is…

    Just checked one, whose name i will not disclose here but, it was at less than 100 a month ago, 500 yesterday and is now at 550…This is pathetic

  44. Virtouse Lilienthal says:

    Woohoo Awesome right time just before christmas 😛

  45. Someguyorgal says:

    As someone who pays a 4 digit amount for classified ads each month, I have a few problems with the new search. Main problem: Uhm… where are my ads?

    I sell avatars, for example. Classified ad for L$ 115,000. It should show up somewhere when I search for “avatars”, I’d think. But it doesn’t. All I get is a page full of places that got to the top of the list by putting out camping chairs and ruining the SL experience for their mainland neighbours.

    There’s a box for classifieds at the right (which looks much less inviting than all the colorful links to the camper zoos), but my ads don’t show in there. Looks like a bug, mature content is not shown in that box even if you choose to see it.
    Anyway…. don’t you think that those who throw insane amounts of money at you should be listed above the camping institutions? If not, there’s no reason for me to pay anything beyond my tier anymore.

  46. Ishtara Rothschild says:

    Above post is from me. Ranted anonymously last time, blog page remembered the name. Anyway… could someone look into that “no mature classifieds shown in classifieds box” bug please? And please reconsider the sort order (high traffic places first, people who pay you listed somewhere on page 3… might be wise to change that).

  47. Georgette Whitfield says:

    Great video as usual, Torley, but your voice sounds different. And you weren’t as hyper. :((( Do you need more sugar? <333 hyper Torley

    One question: can we now search for two or three letter words and acronyms? In the current search it will only accept four-letter search terms and up which is a pain if you want to look up things like lag or AFK or HUD.

  48. Georgette Whitfield says:

    P.S. I agree with #19. Give us the option whether we want to include traffic ratings in our search or not.

  49. Jamie David says:

    My 2 cents worth not that anyone cares.
    It is fast. 🙂
    Glad that there are no graphics to clutter the page.
    pain to have to go back and forth looking at information on the location.
    10 Links per page are not enough.
    50 links in total are no where near enough.
    Couldn’t find my self.

    First it was “open registration” then camping now bots. Genuine decent creators get squished by those who find ways around the system. We all know it. Look at top 20 or top of any search. The places up there are full of bots.

    One Bot store is selling a system where each avitar costs 20,000.
    Making of your own bot is just as easy as 123. There are a few sites that give step by step directions for free. Creators are into creating. However if they do that they see no traffic cause of the 300 listed above them.

    This has gone on for a year and a half. It gets worse and worse. Now HippyPay is the leading sim in SL. Gone are the days when genuine people made up the numbers. My humble personal investigation finds that the current top 20 places have about 1500 bots running on them.

    1 person for one minute = 1 traffic.
    1 person for 24 hours = 1440 traffic

    100,000-150,000 Traffic = current top 20 range
    70 – 105 people for 24 hours

    Yes it is good for the LindenLab statistics. Easier on the systems than having real clients running, but it makes for unfair conditions and creators who give up.

    Easy fix.
    Free accounts are limited. No scripts. Only count as .1 in traffic. Pay one time fee. 5-10$ get all the workings of normal user and a normal 1 per min traffic. Solves griefers, makes people see value in their account.

    Now if they are true free alt accounts their traffic is only worth .1 any how. After this policy runs for say 3 weeks we will see the traffic numbers come back to Real numbers.

    There might be an increase in database work for a few weeks but at the end of the day it will make life easier on all, fairer on all. Down side will be that the numbers will drop as alts are abandoned.

  50. Loki Ball says:

    Well with the old search I typed in a major key word to items I’ve sold for a long time and were actually the items I was able to sell and expand with. I pay the fee to display my parcels in search, and get nothing in the search. So where does that leave me. Well it leaves me I guess getting rid of a half of a sim worth of product lines and start making other things I guess. Well that is until the search gets borked again. I find it wierd that it brought up my searches for the past 7 or so months and now nothing? LOL. Gotta shake my head sometimes. I’m sure it will be an awesome search as has been stated in the video. I guess I’ll use on rez or slx for the bulk of the sales on the other items that won’t get a match in search. I’m not the only one seeing this so I’d appreciate lindens not putting the blinders on and trying to explain it in a moronic way. If thats at all possible. I think the traffic system is a complete scam. Especially when you can pay for your parcel to be found in search and then its not. But my key words for my store can be found amongst sims that have 30 people camping and maybe ONE item that fits the description. LOL. Thats lame any way you look at it. But its not me whos being represented here is it? Its what people are seeing once again in a lack of concern on the part of the honest merchant in SL. Good luck with the new search LL. Just thought I’d put a little more food for thought in while I still can.

  51. Ayden Sivocci says:

    What are these ‘sleekbot zombies’? Something a new shop owner should be concerned about?

  52. Ann Otoole says:

    thats ok. we can all just go spend our days making new accouints and joining groups and putting our “favorite merchants” in our 10,000,000 new accounts each picks. then never log them on again. that should boost the membership rolls up. yea we all know where the internet cafes are so dealing with it is impossible isn’t it. ok so here is the right solution:
    1. remove traffic. make bot use a TOS violation. you have heard us yelling at you for a very long time. so either get rid of it or come clean and tell us you sponsor, condone, and encourage bot use because if thats the way it is we can most certainly boost concurrency to a million pretty quick and kill the entire back end system. come on. don’t be shy. tell it like it is. you want the numbers up for PR purposes. it would only take a few thousand of us running 50 sleekbots per pc to do it. you do know about text based bot clients right? L$2000 is all the program costs from what i heard. (and saw for sale in world)
    2. remove relevancy based on “inbound links”. no groups, no picks involved. easily gamed and the gaming has begun.
    3. remove whoever thought this current new search relevancy up because they are so out of touch with the reality of secondlife that they have exactly zero place being involved.
    4. establish policy about deceptive advertising. yes make it a bannable offense and be done with it. so easy to prove.
    5. make search logic remove redundant prims from search.
    6. make search perform lexical analysis on descriptions so strings of keywords are lowered in relevancy and properly written descriptions are higher as is the way google and other search engines operate. (don’t know what you bought but i think you got ripped off)
    7. make ads appear first with a “sponsored ad” banner so users can just hit next and move on to legitimate results (just like we all do on search engine sites.
    8. sell banner advertising. we can all ignore it just like we do on search engine sites but hey you get t keep the cash anyway so everyone wins.
    9. develop a sense of business ethics and hire some marketing staff that can have absolute control over these areas of secondlife and leave the geeks.. errr i mean “technical people” to work on code where they belong.
    10. do a better job with abuse reports and go after not only griefers but the website operators that clearly benefit from their operations. or admit you encourage them. hope it ain’t so.

    its great your moving search out to services to have a better architecture but you need to age out the old ways and start conducting business with ethics and common sense.

  53. Philo Sion says:

    I’m curious if the buy lists will also list pay scripts? I use a gift card system that needs pay scripts and I’d like to know if it’s in my best interest to switch back to plain old boxes set for sale!

    Great job guys 🙂

  54. Ari Blackthorne says:

    Woohoo finally!

    I love SLBrowser, but it’s a bit clunky to use… attaching, searching, detaching all that. This will be great!

  55. libertine Valeeva says:

    Heads up Loki…

    Yeah there’s something definitely wrong when the keywords you have relied upon and built your business upon suddenly don’t work because the vendor (LL) is playing with their toys.

    We have a strategy that currently places our main group and the supporting sub-groups and land holdings consistently in a hold on the top ten. That’s seven placings in the top ten, on seven keywords.

    Type those same keywords into the new search (cough) engine….

    as I said to a friend of mine…there’s not even a toenail clipping of our groups’ total existence. (two group member’s profiles surfaced…. but none of the officers or owners.)

    I’d say “go figure”

    That’s a command prompt from me and my crew to LL on this one.

    Libby

  56. Richie Oh says:

    Is there btw, any method of detecting a bot? What´s it anyway. A replica of an av? Somebody got a plain explanation?

  57. libertine Valeeva says:

    p.s.

    Our traffic numbers are valid, not robotic; increased by live human contact, from 11 to over 5,000 in three months.

    I like the weighting idea presented earlier in this forum. Giving a .1 rating to what I call “dead” avatars seems like fair game to me.

    I’m against eliminating the weight of traffic count in the search filters. Taking away the reward of a top search placing based partially on our hard earned traffic count is an anti-marketing strategy.

    We’re not big shots with rich accounts. Our land holdings are less than 10,000 sq. meters. That’s a $40 USD a month account that I pay myself. I invested a lot of time and lindens in recruiting quality support group members from around the world.

    I’ve been trying to log in for hours now…we have been under construction because we are expanding quicker than we can act with the traffic we currently bring in with the current search engine.

    That’s a good problem to have, but it seems that my “more than I can handle” traffic is going to dive soon unless someone tells me how to advertise as effectively within this new search engine. Don’t I pay for that?

    The more I think about this, the more I think…

    why invest any more in this?

  58. Ann Otoole says:

    @70 – Some, most actually, are easily identifiable by their names name123, name123, name125, etc. generally speaking they are usually default avatars sitting on camp pads in the parcels their operators own and they don’t respond to anything. after all, when your paying yourself for 100 bots your not really out the money. just the time to go through the bot accounts from time to time and send the collected money back to your main account. this is why traffic needs to go. most of the bots are not even legit money earning bots. they are just what is required for advertising to be seen in sl. the current estimate is 30 to 50% of all users online are these bogus bots. it is out of control. Linden Research stated in the past they were going to get rid of traffic because of this problem. However we can now see they had no intention of doing anything about it. After all, what will the press think if SL concurrency dropped from 50,000 to 25,000 in one day and it never went back up? thinking in these terms it is easy to see why the ethics are absent. so the registered user accounts will now explode with bogus accounts set up to drive “inbound links” and bot use will now increase placing even more load on the already shaky system.

    there is only one right solution. we have come to not expect the right solutions from LL unless external influences come into play.

  59. Ann Otoole says:

    oh yea, the most blatant abuse of these bots is on the increase. you see 80 green dots on the map and go there and see no avatars on ground level. you find 80 ruths in a sardine can skybox at 750 meters. they are not even collecting money. they are just useless avatars connected to the grid using resources to falsely elevate the parcel owner’s traffic.

    and now we can expect to see green blobs on the map and these sardine can operations on a massive increase thanks to an incredibly poorly thought out search relevancy system.

    it is beyond belief. the sl press is lighting up with a universal condemnation of this new search system. heads should roll at LL over this atrocity.

  60. Temporarily Unsustainable says:

    Heads should lol for how seriously everyone’s taking this. Are bots problem? Yes! Is it an atrocity? What a ridiculous word to use!

  61. Beta X says:

    lol! omg i seen that lol, even though it’s funny the abuse is not, you said ruth right, like ruth1 ruth2 ruth3? or like wise nameing of clones to boost traffic, ya that’s not good, it can easly be done, and they can “hack around” real gameplay, i agree that trafic can be good for real places that matter and bring life to SL, but for those useing these sardine cans as a for of “hack around” for real popularity of good buisness or clubsite, i also say both to keep AND remove traffic :S

  62. Jim Perhaps says:

    Ban camping!!! Yes we know that is where a huge part of the Linden’s concurrently online number comes from but it is cheating. There are people that have a very small portion of a sim and use up most of it’s resources with camping.

    Do away with camping LL. Ban it now!

  63. Richie Oh says:

    alrighty found a good method myself, i suppose:

    LOL

  64. DR Dahlgren says:

    NEW SEARCH – Status Indicators – On Topic

    I hope that the placement of the new search tool is not written in stone. I would like to HIGHLY suggest that it be moved to the left of the clock, and the status indicators be put back. I know that many of us rely on the status indicators to show when we have crashed, or if we should just wait a bit for lag / freeze to clear, and I for one truly miss them.

    The search as tried seems to work well. As much as I have tried it, it seems to be a vast improvement over the old multi-tab tool.

    DRD

    And Yes – get rid of camping. If nothing else, it makes no sense to pay $0.20 us per hour for the power to run a computer to make $0.30 us camping. Think a little more green maybe….

  65. Patrice Fierrens says:

    Kind of funny, it tells me I will get the most relevant results, yet when I search for “shoes” I get a Furniture Building Center in the Classifieds. Not because it’s really relevant of course, just because that person pays a lot and deliberately puts irrelevant keywords.

  66. Suu Miles says:

    I totally agree with Ann Otoole…

    Bots are bad, traffic is even worse. One would have thought that traffic is there to show the regions’ actual REAL traffic, like how many people go there to shop and even buy things… so therefore indicate that the place sells great stuff but hell no.

    I am searching for new places for our stores all the time and I so don’t trust traffic at all, funny thing it is up high and nobody is in the street looking around but all locked on one place, somewhere up high. I am sick of these sim and land owners who con decent hard worrking true creative members of sl who spend at least 60+ hours working on their clothing, furniture, whatever and spending at least 5000 L$ a week on rentas, ads, uploads, etc… These sim owners use unfair and unjust methods to take money of us (hey, don’t everyone want to have a shop in one of those high traffic places, but then after paying a lot of money that there was no chance of us ever making a sale because there is NO REAL shopping traffic???)

    Our concern should be taken seriously, ban camping, ban camping bots and make the system fair…

    Shop owners, please keep complaining to LL, maybe we will all be better of, it is time to shop owners to unite and be against this since we are the backbone of second life! Without shopping there would be no reason for anyone to spend money. Therefore let’s complain together as a group and let LL know that we will not put up with this.

    Change the system now, MAKE IT FAIR!

    *Suu Miles sits back waiting to see this post being deleted again…*

  67. Rachel Darling says:

    Question re: Inbound Links:
    “In the new All Search, results are returned by “relevance“, based on how well the page matches the query, how close the multiple words are together, and how many inbound links there are to the page. Inbound links are created by references in top picks, classifieds, landmarks, parcels and groups. While you can create links to these pages from web sites outside Second Life, those in-bound links are not used for relevance. For now we are not allowing HTML in profiles, land descriptions, etc., so attempting to create links in the description text will not work.”

    The last line is confusing me. Can someone please define this a bit more clearly? What specifically counts as an “inbound link?” Is it simply a reference/keyword?

    For instance, if an object is set to a particular group, does that count as an “inbound link?” Or does it simply require the name of the group to be a keyword in the title of the object? Does a reference in the description field count or not? If yes, do they both count as “inbound links” and double the relevance?

  68. Rachel Darling says:

    Another question: in the new Search tab, how is punctuation (such as apostrophes, specifically) treated? Are they searchable? Are they ignored? Are the words omitted?

    This would be helpful to know, as my business name contains one.

    Thanks.

  69. Amanda Ascot says:

    Short and sweet …

    1) Torley, you have managed, as usual, to create a wonderful tutorial, and we all appreciate your efforts.

    … or not so sweet …

    2) The problem is that the new search, while it might look nice and have cool features, is already being gamed, will be gamed worse and worse, and is, even now, utterly useless for presenting relevant results — and buries relevant results that used to be easy to find … the very same results we *want* to get, but now will never be able to dig out. Enough has already been said about this that no excuse can be made for Linden Lab not understanding how totally stupid this is.

    3) There remains the issue that the new search engine is the single most blatant Linden Lab sponsored privacy breach in the history of Second Life. Even if you opt out of putting your profile on the search your avatar name will *still* go out to the web, without your consent, and will immediately be snatched up by advertisers. It’s spam time, folks. Your IMs will be capped, you’ll be presented with a deluge of note-card advertisements, you’ll be buried to you virtual ears in garbage you don’t want to see, every time you log on.

  70. Avalon Asturias says:

    This new view rocks for me so far. The search functions are awesome. I use to get so frustrated trying to find what I wanted. I was always using SLX to find what I needed as the search was better. Thank you Torley for explaining how to use it. LL great job, I hope this view stabalizes so we can use it all the time.

  71. Bobo Decosta says:

    The new search is good if it was implemented right but it isn’t! Setting all for sale items in search by default is a big mistake wich will make search incorrect for about 90% is my guess. I had a look on my parcels and 100% of the results are wrong. Lot of items for sale, but I use vendors so it was not possible that items i sell are listed. A look of what was for sale was a list of non-transerable items wich where set for sale by the creator and “for sale” can’t be deselected.

    LL assumes that everybody will now run across their land to deselect them I guess. Well I won’t! I didn’t list them so I don’t really care that people will get to my land and be disappointed nothing of the items listed is for sale.

    I really don’t understand the decision to enforce this feature by default as it is very clear this decision will corrupt the for sale searches entirely

  72. Zoe Llewelyn says:

    I don’t actually see any information on how to use the new search or how relevance is determined for it in this post. If all the information I need is in the video that does not help those of us that are deaf very much as no one ever thinks to include subtitles.

    Could I please ask that important in formation be actually typed and offered in written form for those of us not able to hear. Thank you.

    – Zoe Llewelyn
    Boneflower Designs

  73. Zoe Llewelyn says:

    I just watched the video, and must say I am beyond surprised…subtitles! ZOMG! No one, and I mean no one, ever remembers subtitles for the deaf! THANK YOU, and ignore my above post. *cough* Teaches me to watch it first, eh.

    -Zoe Llewelyn
    Boneflower Designs

  74. Naz Fride says:

    Maybe there should be two sets of comments: one for sim owners and one for regular users.

    Anyway, the new Search has a lot of potential, but has a long way to go, from a user standpoint. When I did a search from the new toolbar window, using Any Category as a filter, it worked. Then, when I wanted to refine that search in the new search window, the Search button was grayed out. I had to clear the search term window and retype it to get the Search button back. This is a minor inconvenience, but it seems like it would be just as easy to eliminate it, and never have the Search button grayed out.

    Keep up the good work, Torley.

  75. Bobo Decosta says:

    I also agree with a TOS against bots and a revision of the traffic system. Being here only for about 6 months as entrepreneur I had to install campings to get my sim listed. After a few days I noticed these campers only got filled with bots, so next was looking for ways to get these bots out. I have anti-afk now. But I still think it’s not fair I have to pay people to get listed. In the meanwhile I understand that bots are not even illegal on slso why am I paying campers? I only have to make my own bot army and put them in a skybox. Higher traffic for free! I rather put my money in classifieds but traffic gives more money for my buck then classifieds so ….

  76. How would we find objects for sale in a vebdor?

    Would they have to be listed in the vendors description or will search find them inside the vendor?

    This could be a big issue as many use vendors to help with prim allowances.

  77. Meade Paravane says:

    Woohoo!!

    /me practices what will go into every search…
    -camp -camping
    -camp -camping
    -camp -camping
    -camp -camping
    -camp -camping
    -camp -camping
    -camp -camping

  78. Korena Starbrook says:

    Garth – my understanding is that those who use vendors are screwed 😦

    These results are already SOOOO skewed and manipulated it is depressing.

    As merchants we are faced with the decision to actively participate in this manipulation to survive – or just watch things wither away.

    Really sad. I guess it is a case of may the most spam prims and top picked ALTS win 😦

  79. Jeska Linden says:

    @ Paulo
    Keywords are not the only thing providing relevance in the new search. As mentioned in previous blog posts, several different pieces of information are involved in ranking results in the new search including raising relevancy for high traffice locations in various ways, popular places, the inclusion of favorites found in profiles and more.

    @ Atashi
    Unless you just recently added your parcel to search (in which case it would take up to 3 days for it to be included, it’s not automatic!), that sounds like a bug, I will be sure to forward it onto our search team for their further research. Please remember that Search is still in Release Candidate mode and has not yet been finalized!

    @ libertine and Amethyst
    Don’t forget that the “old” version of search is still available and will be until we are satisfied that the new search has been properly integrated and is performing well (or hopefully better) than the current one. Also remember, that much like on the web, searching for your items will work better if you provide better, clearer keywords. There are many sites on the Web that explore the artform of meta-tagging, keywording and descriptions. Thank you for your patience while we work thrugh this period of change!

    @ Ambergris
    Currently the featured listings feature is turned off while we work at refining the page. But, they are pulled directly from the classified ads and include the highest paid ads. We are hoping to grow the classified visibilty and value in the future by offering placement in the featured listings location to more classified buyers. Watch this blog for more information in the coming months.

    @ Turner
    We are exploring ways to include vendors in future versions of Search. I would encourage you to spend some time with keywords and tagging the objects you currently have before entirely writing off the new search.

    @ Ishtara
    I will pass along your information to our Search Team, classified ads are returned by relevance of the search query and should be respecting the mature/not mature check box. Please note that including mature content may not change the list of ads shown at the right if the most relevant ads are not marked mature! When searching for a very common word like “avatar” there appear to be many PG classifieds returned!

    @Georgette
    I’m happy to report that you can in fact seach for 2 and 3 digit words with the new search!

  80. Nanci Barthelmess says:

    This rocks!!! Searching for things has always been a pain in my arse, but I’m loving the new search feature. Thanks for including our picks, as it’s now the only way I can get my store in the search database until I can get the parcel my store is on listed in Places. I’ll have to blog it once I investigate it a bit more, but this is one new feature that I’m glad you didn’t wait to get available to use until more of the annoying bugs got fixed. (And congrats on the pace of bug fixing. SL was an exercise in frustration last week but on the whole it’s been much easier to do things so far this week.)

    Now if we caould only get to play with WindLight some more as well as use the awesome new search tools. 😉

  81. Ann Otoole says:

    There is a very bad aspect of the new system being gamed. Ask the DBA staff about the ramifications of thousands of merchants replicating prims to raise position in search by a factor of 10 or more. add to that the probable explosion in bogus user account records to get picks placed on accounts that will log in once and never log in again after the account profile is set up. I’m pretty sure your going to have to address this with the TOS before the search slows to a crawl and the database runs out of space.

    Just a technical thought from a data warehouse engineer.
    🙂

  82. Dr Boyoma says:

    Torley Linden,

    I am using the Release Candidate (and exploring your tips) and it is just awesome.

    Great work everyone involved.

    Dr Boyoma

  83. Zoe Llewelyn says:

    I must say after playing with the new search, I find it’s relevance factors confusing and odd. Maybe its because many of my most popular products are in vendors but my main product lines now show up on page 11 instead of page 1 of old search, and products that used to show up several pages back in search now are on page 1 for some strange reason beating out other stores who I know have more popular products by that name and category. very odd. i see little actual logic or predictability so far.

  84. Cocoanut Koala says:

    I can’t get the search to go beyond the first page, clicking on “next” or “2” doesn’t seem to work. I would LIKE to see where I am on it.

    The best I could get myself to come up (on the first page, which is all I can access) is to put in “cottages.” NOT EVEN “cottage.” “Cottages.”

    I would also LIKE to give my preliminary comments in THIS BLOG before the comments are PEREMPTORILY CUT OFF. (Which means commenting before reading the other comments.) I’d write this much better if I only had TIME to.

    And I’ve got this to say:

    We are all doomed. Doomed, doomed, doomed, doomed, doomed.

    The only people who will survive are those who appear on the first couple of pages of “All.”

    This “All” thing not only SUCKS, it is practically shoved down the throat of the users!

    The entire first PAGE of search is ENTIRELY devoted to the “All” search, in which nobody but 10 people are even going to show up on the first page, followed by dozens of pages of crap no one is going to plow through.

    The only significant way to the top of this “All” thing appears to be we give you L97,000 a WEEK to classifieds. Thus ENSURING that only the big and rich get bigger and richer, while everyone else sinks into total obscurity.

    AND we can’t figure out how to manage to show up, because the algorithm for it – i.e., just exactly what determines your place on it – is NOT EXPLAINED, and can apparently change at the first backstage manipulation (passed off as “fine-tuning.). I believe it was explained vaguely somewhere; can anyone point me to where?

    YES folks, drive all the users to this magnificent “ALL” page, thus throwing 90% of sales to the top people on the list.

    It would be bad enough to have this All Google crap, but to pimp it like there’s no tomorrow only HURTS anyone who doesn’t understand how to get high up on it.

    Do you really want to get rid of most of the content creators in SL? By which I mean, anybody who isn’t the top ten on the heavily-promoted All page?

    Because you sure are making every (unnecessary) effort to do so. It’s like you want to drive everyone to this magnificent “All” thing that you are apparently so proud of, that you are willing to kill the rest of us off.

    And I mean kill us off. Kill our sales. This is the closest to “over” this game has ever been for me. Are you going to enjoy the fact that I no longer pay you $1725 a year? That I now wouldn’t THINK of buying an island?

    I won’t be able to AFFORD to pay you that money because you have gone literally OUT OF YOUR WAY to push this “All” thing on us, with no concern whatsoever about what it is going to do to us, the merchants of SL.

    Multiply me by bunches of other people whose sales go down, and see how you like that.

    All because you’ve got to have this All search, and you’ve GOT to make sure that new users go RIGHT TO IT. Heck, you practically shove them there!

    Do you think you could at LEAST not pimp it like that? Just call it “All” like you used to, and leave it at that? Just along the screen like it always was.

    coco

  85. JetZep Zabelin says:

    Torley, thanks for your video tutorials. I’ve been testing the search tool all morning and rly rly like em. =D

    But some things are not showing up for example our group Watermelon Nation. Hehe! Also many avatar names are not showing up. http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-3092

  86. Jeska Linden says:

    Heya everyone – please note I am deleting the offtopic replies to this post so we can continue to stay on target about search!

  87. Blinders Off says:

    Great video Torley.

    BUT… and I don’t aim this at Torley, isn’t it sad that textures rez so slowly? Any nickle-and-dime website on the net can rez a texture in a split second. Second Life? 10 seconds. a minute. 3 minutes. HALF AN HOUR…

    The results aren’t minor. People go to a merchant and leave in disgust because textures rez so slowly. People visit a sim and comment on how “laggy” the sim is, because everything remains gray for anywhere from a few minutes to indefinite (it’s not the “sim”. The sim is just fine. It’s SL lousy data-handling routines).

    It’s not sad that this problem exists. Anything can spring a bottleneck from time to time. What’s sad is that it has existed for SO LONG without Linden Lab doing a thing about it. That is what is sad. A system that can’t handle simple texture resolution, simple group chat, simple Group Notices, is tinkertoy, I don’t care how many claims of “bleeding edge” are sounded off over and over again. Text chat isn’t bleeding edge. Simple data transferral (Group Notices) isn’t bleeding edge. Plopping a texture on a screen isn’t bleeding edge (3d games have been doing such ever since Doom back in the 80s).

    A system that can’t get the simple stuff right sure isn’t going to get the complex stuff right.

    Sorry you had to be embarassed by thoses slow-loading textures Torley. You’re a good guy. But… that’s just a sample of how the rest of us feel every hour we’re logged in to SL. Slow loading textures are flipping frustrating.

  88. Celty Westwick says:

    Why would a group with around 500 members not show up in the “all” search tab now, even when the exact name is entered and the “groups” drop down is selected? The group only shows up under the groups search tab.

  89. Blinders Off says:

    BTW Torley, if you could pass this on: in examining the new SEARCH system, something hit me that should have hit me long ago: POPULAR PLACES.

    Popular places is judged by all things, on traffic.

    We know how easy it is to exploit traffic.

    You want to see camping chairs disappear forever? Completely delete the “popular places” category. It’s abused, it’s bogus, it does no one any good. People go to these “popular places” just to find a bunch of bogus, dead avatars sitting around on camping chairs. There’s no need for this search listing at all. Remove it and all other “traffic” triggered bonuses… and my guess is camping chairs will for the most part vanish.

  90. mimi says:

    Is there any way to get pictures to show up in one click? In the new search we have to click on a link to see the picture: this is one extra click and won’t make searching easier when going though hundreds of adds. (meaning hundreds of extra clicks, extra time waiting to load for the next page etc)
    in the old search advertisemeny pictures give a good indication of the quality of products for sale: when someone does knows how to use photoshop for the advertisement picture, the products often are well textured too. Bad advertisements usually mean bad products.

  91. Laura18 Streeter says:

    interesting. All my picks in the new search say:

    This XML file does not appear to have any style information associated with it. The document tree is shown below.

    NoSuchKey
    The specified key does not exist.
    place/378eb93f-8830-4675-5cdf-b0fd321ed51e
    37F4EDA4EB17B04B

    3oB9YCeA6EgH+hykUy9ZNYmwupTyguzq6pXRSBR/foHIeq07bHTjGBF83aoTSUrv

  92. Laura18 Streeter says:

    I still say it would be cool to have an option
    Create Landmark
    for a place, and not just
    Teleport

  93. katykiwi moonflower says:

    There seems to be problems/bugs with search results. A search under my name shows objects I dont have and are not on my land listed for sale on my land. Also, our store does not even show up in search under the basic key words.

  94. Jamie David says:

    We have complained and complained. We have protested. We have written in JIRA and filed tickets and nothing changes. For LL bot traffic is good. Used to be that they paid land owners who got into the top 20. Then it was lindens they were paying out so I am sure that they were on top of things. Now, what reason is there to stop bots? 😦

    Honestly think anyone will listen to us the residents? Doubt it.

    One solution is…. Every one have your own 40-50 bots running. Can’t beat them so join them. Google libSL and bot. Maybe then somone might care when the news talks about all the bots rather than all the people.

    😦

    —-

    Having played with the new version of search for past 2 hours. I am likeing it more.

    Yes it is fast but can’t find small or average places unless you use multiword search. (See below)

    Requires changing windows to teleport (Double Click on entry, wait for it to page, click on teleport)

    List of what is for sale with prices is good on place page but useless waste of space in Listing page.

    10 per list is best thing for the mega sims keeps the small fish out of view. Should be 50 -100

    Stuff that was not set for sale has shown up in search by default it seems.

    **No one is going to understand that Plus Minus and quotes will work just as in normal google search. This is a google box so is google search.**

    Get rid of people places groups advertisments as tabs and have them as radio buttons is my suggestion.

  95. Bobo Decosta says:

    @ 94 The new search has convinced me to play dirty. I will install my own bot army. I have to if i want people to notice my sim. I don’t understand why landowners still install campings why they can make their own bot army.

    Thank you for the google hint. Looking in to it as we speak.

  96. Jeska Linden says:

    @ Philo – Thanks for the feedback, I think it will take some exploration of what works best as far as keywords and object listing. Please, take some time and play with the new search to see which way works best.

    @ Rachel – Sorry for the confusion, all that means is that you are not currently able to create a direct html link on the web or via your profile to increase relevancy for your parcels, groups, etc. In answer to your question about apostrophe use in search, it looks like you can get different returns whether you use the apostrophe or simply spell it out. ie: if I search for Torley vs Torleys vs Torley’s I get very different results.

    @ Amanda – I appreciate your concerns and would like to encourage you to spend some time with the new Search before completely writing it off. Like any new search process, there will be a period of adjustment while everyone works to optimize their keywords and descriptions. Also, remember that while we are working to refine the new search, the “old” version of search is still very operable and can help you to refine your results. Also, I’ll be sure to take your privacy concerns back to our team.

    @ Bobo – Just a reminder, the defaults were only set for the initial population of search so there would be objects included for the launch. I understand your frustration with having to reset bits whose default setting you do not want and apologize for this inconvenience. Going forward with any new object created you will be able to determine whether or not you want something set for sale and/or you want something included in search – they are NOT tied together.

    @ Zoe – This post is about the video only, please check the earlier post for more information on this.

    @ Garth – We are exploring other options for vendors, but currently listing more information in the vendor object name and/or description field is a great first step. We of course will continue to continue our dialog with content creators to determine what the best method of searching objects may be. As a first step, listing for objects in search at all vastly improves their find-ability.

    @ Cocoanut – I’m sorry you were unable to use the new search properly, it sounds like you’ve encountered a bug and I will be sure to pass it along to our Search team so they can investigate it further. Please continue to report any new issues in the Issue Tracker and be sure to set “Affects Version/s” to “1.18.5 Release Candidate“. I’d also like to ask you, as I’ve asked others above, to please spend some time with the new Search before completely writing it off.

    @ JetZep – Thank you filing a bug, I’m sorry to hear your group was not listed, I’ll be sure that your bug is passed over to our Search team to follow up.

    @ Celty – as JetZep reported, there may be a bug with groups not showing up. Can you please file a bug with your group name included so we can follow up on this? (instructions above)

  97. Laura18 Streeter says:

    @81
    The point is well taken.
    But we could have done without seven (7) copies of the same pick in your profile considering how you preach…
    Same pic, same landing point same text…

    both as an SL model
    and as a RL DBA

  98. Jeska Linden says:

    @ Laura18 – Sorry that you’re having trouble, if that is happening each time you search for something, it sounds like a bug. Please report this in the Issue Tracker and be sure to set “Affects Version/s” to “1.18.5 Release Candidate“. Also, I like your idea of “create landmark here” (if the person allows it on their land) – I’ll pass this along to our Search Team!

    @ katykiwi – It’s hard to tell from your description what problem you are experiencing, please follow the above instructions to report the bug so we can follow up on it.

  99. Ann Otoole says:

    @97. concur. i’m surprised that data made it into the database in less than 24 hours. i even played with the replicated prims. but after looking at it and getting that disgusted feeling i am returning to the old way. there are better business models to develop using this new system that are legitimate so you can expect to see my profile return to normal. However, picks now carry a monetary value so keep that in mind.

    i predict we will see business alliances form up with people sharing common themes banding together to compete and pooling resources. this will be a positive for the shoppers since they will more easily find a diverse offering in a sim composed of multiple merchants that share a theme and pool resources to compete for ad positions.

    as for the search, someone looking for something very specific found my store quickly based on the prim data so we will have to look hard at how we keyword items. we have 128 characters for the descriptions to use now too.

    i still think the TOS needs to address the potential of database loading and the aspects of bots. SL will be a better place if LL will deal with these deceptive practices.

    as we said at Microsoft: Upgrade Or Die.

    have a good one folks. I will be busy reorganizing my business for a while so no more time for blogs.

  100. Flame Swenholt says:

    A problem I see if some people have venders that operate via Pay command instead of the Buy Command. This means if a user uses the search command and the venders there operate script wise (PAY), would that mean that it would show up as an object on the parcel or would it become ignored? For most people who use these kind of venders a lot, this could be like total ignorance to the people who use special venders instead of the default way of selling (which uses more prims, and less prims means you can rent places with better ease).

  101. Vivienne says:

    Heya. You really should make this INTERFACE more scalable. As it is now, the search window covers ALL of my screen, which can be annoying. Expanding functionality of search might be nive, but i really doubt that i makes any sense as long as the ones who pay the most stay listed top in the average result window. Threre is no relevance to search terms possible at all this way, sorry.

  102. Atashi Toshihiko says:

    Thanks for the feedback Jeska! The parcel in question has been listed in search places since March… it is group-owned land, and has gone through some changes though (subdivisions and joins) so maybe that is playing a part.

  103. Celty Westwick says:

    Beyond groups not showing up, i also get results that have some listed that do nothing when you click on them, i think this whole thing needs to go to test grid only till it’s ready for even release candidate status.

  104. It’s looking very useful so far, I’m playing a lot with it (hope the database doesn’t crash with so much extra queries 😐 )

  105. Michael Timeless says:

    Torley
    I know this is off topic. Can you please pass the word that since most communications from LL are sent with comments closed it defeats the purpose of feedback for most residents. Our world is rapidly turning into someone elses.

  106. Benja says:

    Looks great! well done.

  107. Jeska Linden says:

    @ Atashi – thanks, will include that in the bug report!

    @ Daedalus – in reply to your comment about load, the new search should actually help relieve load on the central databases, as it has helped to distribute one of the critical loads (search) to an alternate system.

  108. bobbyb30 zohari says:

    Well done LL!

    Now if only you could fix those who abuse the search engine with spaces and symbols in front of their add!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  109. Vie Kiama says:

    I love it!, but please put the lil lag meters back up there..

  110. Ambergris says:

    Thank you Jeska, but what does all that mean? You will offer affordable slots on the featured listing page to those who do not have the bankroll to pay the equivalent of 100’s of USD per week?
    Will that be done by a lottery of some sort?
    How will those who DO pay those large amounts feel about that?

    And I am still concerned like Garth is about the vendors. Not all of us own sims and have unlimited prims available. Vendors help with that.

    Search is the backbone of SL in many many ways, and I find it disturbing that it is being played around with in this manner.

    It seem there is a lack of foresight and even knowlege about how businesses of all types -large or small- depend on Search.

  111. Jeska Linden says:

    @ Ambergris – the classifieds will be returned in new search in the same order as the current order. They will also appear alongside relevant searches (a new feature not in the “old” search). Since objects were not indexed in the “old” search, the new version, which allows you to at least index the name and description, should be better. If the feedback from the community is that this is not the case, we will go back and try again. And again. I’d encourage you to take some time and adjust keywords on your objects and see how it impacts your findability in the new search, all while realizing that the old search is still fully functional.

    Going forward we would like to implement higher visibility classified ads – but these have not yet been designed. We’re hoping to get some good feedback from this initial pass at search before doing so.

  112. Blinders Off says:

    @Jeska and Torley. Kudos for direct responses to comments. That’s more like it! 🙂

    Feedback: recognizing of course that the new search is still in alpha stage, yeah, there’s some bugs. A search using the ALL function (as Celty and others noted above) didn’t return results for groups, but the groups showed up just fine in group search.

    In addition, using the “Group Name” type search, still produces the same results of the old search engine, which means it produces everything that contains “Group” and “Name” rather than “Group Name”.

    I haven’t checked yet to see if the search engines still requires that borked “3 character minimum” knee-jerk rule. Hope that has been thrown in the trash and burned to ashes. (Anyone ever try to search for the sim “Pi”. LOL).

    Feedback on the “items for sale” results. If I search for example, “So and so vendor”, and then click on that vendor name (which should of course, refer to an avatar name most likely), it CAN produce merchandise. However:

    * That merchandise is shown only if using standard SL boxes, which requires a lot of prims and for some reason after all this time and all the complaints, still does not report sales details to the merchant.

    * It does not allow the user to purchase the item, it just shows the item name.

    * It does not limit the merchandise listing to items owned by that merchant, but by every merchant box on that piece of land.

    So at the very best, all this search results in is a partial and inaccurate list of items searched for and imo, is kind of a half-baked implimentation of a not-thought-through idea. Why not throught through? Because most merchants use vending devices. Very few use standard SL sales boxes (for the above reasons… too primmy and not enough resultant sales information).

    What would make this idea really rock is this: if LL were to create updated sales boxes that:

    * Were able to detect where on the surface a prim was touched (x/y coords)
    * Generate a sale based on surface location
    * Report WHAT item was sold, WHERE, TO WHOM and for HOW MUCH.

    Considering SL is pretty much based on a financial foundation, improved sales tools are long overdue, and have been far more important than sculpties, flexies, windlight, local lighting etc etc etc.

    Merchants would really love to set out one single prim with multiple textures on the surface, and have the prim report COMPLETE sales results. If it’s touched here, it sells item #1. If it’s touched here, item #2, etc etc.

    Such an item should have been built right into SL from the very start. If one is going to have a market-based board, provide the market tools, I say.

    Other than that, the new search looks interesting. I have a gut feelign though that it’s a lot of cosmetics with very little true value at this point (at least, until the bugs are fixed. We really need those “google-type” modifyers). And when a specific merchant is looked up, we shouldn’t see three dozen listings from other merchants with similar words in their titles.

    Just some friendly feedback… with positive suggestions.

  113. Blinders Off says:

    @Ambergris: “It seem there is a lack of foresight and even knowlege about how businesses of all types -large or small- depend on Search.”

    Right on the nail Ambergris. Without meaning to punch LL, it seems that there was a “lack of thinking it through” before this search thing was designed. I would have guessed that if this was passed through actually SL users and merchants, they could have come up with a much more viable and useful design. Which always leads back to the question: do the Lindens play their own game? Do they have members of the staff that spend hours a day in Second Life, whose sole job is to report back implimentation of features? They should have. And those people should be in on staff meetings to give their input as to whether something would work or not, or whether it can be designed better. I can guarantee you, you want to find out how to make SL work better, ask a merchant or scripter. They’re the ones that really put SL to the test, and they’re the ones that know what works, what isn’t working, and what will and won’t work.

    If a few merchants had been asked about this new “product listing” thing, the first thing they would have said is, “We don’t use SL buyer boxes, we use scripted vendors. Nice idea, but generally useless and not worth wasting time on unless you update the buyer box functionality itself.”

    I tell ya, if LL would update buyer box functionality as I described above, I’d love it. But considering what I’ve seen so far, I have to honestly admit that those buyer boxes would likely be half-baked as well, because… well, they wouldn’t ask the merchants. LOL.

    Sometimes LL, it pays to think INSIDE the box.

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  115. Rene Erlanger says:

    My impression is that the New Search will probably be appreciated by AV’s that are not involved in content creation or business. I think the majority of the business community will be very skeptical of this new product.

    As it stands it favours Walmart type businesses over the smaller shops that possess limited land , limited prims, limited resources amd limited amount of money to burn. This outcome was predicted by a Prokofy Neva (his website) interview around a month ago and from playing around with this NEW SEARCH for several hours i am of a similar opinion.

    I own several types of businesses on SL and have spent months developing ways of featuring reasonably high in most searches (ALL, Classifieds, Places) i.e top half of Page 1. At a stroke most of that work has been negated with this NEW SEARCH!!
    Some of the returned SEARCH results are completely bizarre with businesses that are considered small with not many BUY prims, one or none classified adverts, no other vendor locations or no further cross links… figuring right at the top of the Search!!! How does that work whilst my 1st listing is buried deep into page 2 or 3?

    Amongst other things, i own a Fetish/Goth Mall which has been in SL for 2 years now (took it over 3 months ago). I don’t use campers to falsify traffic or camping bots in the sky…i use traditional methods of marketing which includes SL Classifieds, advertising in external SL newspapers, radio advertisements, customer group and periodically hosting game shows within the mall.
    My only saving grace is that the mall is specialised for Fetish/Goth/Vamp/Punk fashion (plus a few big named conventional ones) and that the vendors here are all of very high quality (No BIAB’s or Resellers), so i’m not having to compete with a armada of bland looking Malls that use an army of non-shopping camper bots.
    Recently for my sins I decided to start cutting parcels for the majority of my Vendors (110+) outside their spots, placing their logo, their own landing point and selecting keywords based on the products that i can see in front me. Trust me, it takes hours and hours of work in just selecting the keywords alone, not to mention the weekly parcel search cost that i incur! It was worth it as traffic did increase as did sales ……however using the NEW SEARCH with the exception of a few obscure keywords, all that work seems to have been a waste of time from the results I have been getting. 😦 Oh well i guess i can save 2+k week on parcel search listings!!

    What really gripes me when you type in “Malls” in New ALL Search, the top entry in Classifieds is Vodaphone!!!!!
    What the hell has Vodaphone got to do with shopping malls???? Is this the sign of things to come?…..large corporations coming in and dumping chump change for classified Ads…. in this case 130k Lindens, to include every popular keyword under the sun to get prime position in ALL SEARCH in the classifieds sections.??
    Will the top 8 classified spots eventually become a battle ground amongst Corporations for position as Joe Public certainly does not have that sort spending power?

    Mind you Classifieds has always been borked for abuse. For example one finds top of the range Skin/ Fashion creators that produce the odd poor quality body shape list that in their keywords along with their 150K+ advert , whilst specialise creators of Body Shapes like myself, MAD Designs, A Lady & Body Doubles are buried deeper in the listings because we can’t afford to spend that sort of money. The existing system does not and will never favour smaller quality creators of any kind. Money talks!

    As things stand now,I can forsee businesses creating multiple duplicate prims to increase the cross linking for higher search placements. The bigger the land you have available the better! It actually might be cheaper and more effective to rent a SIM for around 110 K/ $400 USD (or 27.5K L per week), build a main shop and dump 14k of duplicate prims as opposed to paying 30k/pw for a classified advert that might not be listed in the top 8 classifieds anyway. Food for thought!

    I can forsee even more ALTS being created so that they can join their own Brand groups and include their own business in PICKS due to the parameters chosen by LL.

    I can forsee companies paying noobs to join their groups and asked to select their businesses in PICKS. Good for the Noobs i guess, another form of income!

    As marketing costs mount up, i can forsee more businesses using Camper Bots as opposed to paying real or farmed campers, thats if traffic has any sort of impact on Searches.

    Why won’t the Lab shut down campers all together?
    Simple answer—> Concurrent users would drop like a stone from 50K to about 30k+—-> Bad publicity for the Lab—–> the Lab doesn’t like bad publicity!!

    They always boast of 10 million registered users, but in reality i would be surprised if it were much more than 2 million unique identities.

    In order to preserve one’s own businesses, it’s likely i will have throw business ethics out of the window and adopt the “If you can’t beat them, join them” attitude. Whatever it takes to keep my income stream from falling.

    This whole concept of developing a NEW SEARCH engine, reminds me of several Accounting packages that i’ve stumbled across over the years, some of which were poorly developed with flaws, bugs and unable to even follow accounting principles! Why?
    Many of these so called off-the-shelf-simple-to use (and surprisingly even larger ones like SAP) packages were developed by techies with little accounting knowledge and unable to understand the interaction required between different accounting modules or the data/ end product required from it.

    I looks like a similar problem here, techies with limited business acumen are expected to develop a fair and all conquering search facility.

    For this to work properly, Linden Labs will have to do something they are not very good at…..listen to their End Users!! LL really need to gather info from both Customers group and a Business group, to cover both ends of the spectrum.

    Welcome WALMART………….goodbye Corner Shop!

  116. Ishtara Rothschild says:

    Thanks for your answers, Jeska. I had a closer look at the new search yesterday, and I admit that it isn’t so bad after all.

  117. Pepper Haas says:

    I read these blogs fairly religiously, and have not encountered anyone saying, Why oh WHY don’t we have a new improved Search!! To hear Jeska Linden talk of “ongoing dialogue” is laughable. At least ten posts here already remark on how thousands of avatars have complained about REAL problems which are not fixed and are not going to be fixed, while Lindens are busy fixing what isn’t broken. If you had *dialogued* with the merchants of SL you would not have worked on a new Search until we get our basic issues of slow rezzing, permissions change, group im, etc. fixed and working. Lindens basically give you what THEY want, and if you don’t like it, tough. We are now stuck with this new search, and Jeska and all the replying lindens show how good they are at completely ignoring the main objection EVERYBODY has, which is to do something about all the camp bots and get rid of traffic as a search indicator, since it isn’t fair.
    I had already noticed even in the old Search that if you wanted your Classified to be visible you had to pay gobs and gobs of money, now I don’t waste my money on the Lindens anymore, but hire ingame ad spaces for a lot less money per week, with very good results including that I get notified when people read my ad.
    My take on reading all the comments is: This new Search is far more prone to abuse and gaming as the old Search, and is therefore not an improvement. I would have to agree with those who posted about the bots, that it seems that Lindens WANT sims full of bots and fake prims, especially since Jeska and the others were so obvious about totally avoiding that point in their replies here.

  118. Hiro Queso says:

    How about being able to attach a snapshot to an object in the same way we can for land, classifieds, etc? It would make the object search much more useful.

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  120. Rene Erlanger says:

    117

    I noticed that too Pepper, Linden non replies to either controversial or not-towing-the-LL-line type messages written here……in fact thats a common theme in all the blogs i have ever read on SL website.

    Hence why i included the 2nd to last paragraph.

  121. Jinee Flores says:

    I’d really rather have the lag bars (lost packets + network connectivity indicators) in the upper right hand corner. I have a Search button .. why do I need another one that looks like a magnifying glass??

  122. Ann Otoole says:

    you want good feedback? the architecture change to improve performance is outstanding and is direly needed.

    now you need to address deception in a strong way.

    what else do we need?
    1. filters to exclude and include categories. we need to exclude groups, events, people, etc.

    and we need sub categories of shopping such as skins, footwear, accessories, avatars, hair, etc.

    and we need something done about merchants who will place dozens of cheap ads to fill the search results. a search for flexi hair turns up pages and pages of the same merchant. (no offense meant to that merchant as the ads are a holdover to the old way)

    a lot of improvements are needed and blog comments do not seem to be tyhe best way to handle this nor is a hand picked “focus group” of residents that always agree with you on every situation.

    one thing about it. there is not going to be an easy cheap solution. a dedicated team of experts is required and a very long amount of payroll time allocated to this feature.

  123. Bagnaria Wunderle says:

    Rene Erlanger TY for your great summary of all the upcoming manipulations to be expected, they already happen:

    I have a few suggestions to LL that could help using the new SEARCH to actually reveal much more relevant results:

    1) Cap the objects parsed at a limited number like 100, otherwise all vendors will start to create as many SEARCHABLE prims as possible. Each prim that we use for building things will be packed with keywords and be searchable. Island owners with 15000 searchable prims will win this game and it just does not make sense. People will also start to add totally irrelevant keywords just to be found randomly. Search prim clusters are already occurring everywhere.

    This will also help small business owners!

    Here’s how to select which prims should be looked at in a crawl
    A) Ignore DUPLICATED searchable prims with the same name, description and content (or just content) on the same parcel.
    B) Add properties to prims that count and remember how many times the object actually has been TOUCHED and PURCHASED. A purchase should count as much more relevant and the price should also be somewhat reflected in that formula.
    C) For shops: Only prims that are actually both for SALE and SEARCHABLE should be counted. Parcel categories would be helpful with that.
    D) Make it part of the TOS that search prim clusters may result in temporary removal from search (after a warning), just like Google does it. [With a prim cap this will not be necessary.]

    2) Ignore (or almost ignore) AV’s that are not having a payed account for relevance to TRAFFIC and SEARCH. Give them no or just a fraction of voting power.

    3) For the ranking of groups also give an AV with paid account at least 10 times more weight.

    4) Add a include/exclude FREE ITEMS flag in the search results. This may not be easy to do. But I prefer to shop for stuff that is not free. Others maybe freebie hunters.

    5) How much money somebody paid for a classified should not influence the ranking at all. The classified ads are already occurring in a separate area. 


    6.) Discourage the use of misleading keywords. Make it at least part of the TOS. Other people may have good ideas on that.

  124. Isablan Neva says:

    I would really like to see a “Products for Sale” search category to help cull out all the rest of the junk.

    Also: Popular places as a reflection of traffic really needs to go.

  125. mimi says:

    Making unpayed members not count for many things may have some big disadvantages. The biggest disadvantage will probably be that many bigger places will not welcome non paying members anymore, because they take up valuable resources and create lag while add nothing to beeing shown in the search. Not beeing in the search will mean, no visitors and no visitors will mean: no money to pay the tiers.
    First the big commercial places will start with this because they like to stay on top of the search and make lots of money (probably even start paying membership bots, and give them picks)
    Second, the medium bigger places will be forced to do so as well to be able to compete with the big places beeing shown in the search.
    In the end a lot of places, even the smaller ones will be forced to focus only on paying members.

    Will shops still try and produce newcomer friendly items? No probably not. It will be of no use. Maybe a few will try, but they won’t come far since their shops will never show up in the search.

    Will this be good for Sceondlife? It will discourage a lot of new members to stay in secondlife who dont want to pay right away because they cant get in a lot of places, there are no newcomer friendly shops.

  126. Ann Otoole says:

    @125 – the only solution is to close the system and make bot use a TOS violation. unfortunate as it it that is the only way given the resources required to police a TOS entry forbidding them.

  127. What i see here is another case of programmers implementing a feature not because its needed but simply because it can be done.

    Its a mistake to put Search All as SL’s default search, in my view Search All should be somewhere in the back. There are some technical uses for Search All but not something to be the popular sl search. It gives unnecessary infomation, and the relevance of its page ranking is off.

    Dont remove Traffic, Traffic is very useful information for marchants and shoppers. The arguement is that traffic is often gamed but when you look at Search -> Places you can easily identify sites that are just gaming their Traffic with nothing of value being sold. Myself and many other creators built their traffic over time with no camping at all. When you see 7000 – 800 Traffic for a business you know its likely legit traffic with no camping, Even some places with less than 800 Traffic still have something of value. There are many other important uses of traffic. There are places with over 7000 Traffic and yet no camping. Camping is not a big enough issue to force everyone to use this buggy Search All.

    Popular places is also useful information, even if the most popular places are using camping its still useful and legit information. We know how the info is generated. If the most popular thing in sl is money making (surveys, camping) or free sex, then its just a reality. We can’t kill popular places because we dont like its results.

    Add new features with extreme caution there many things that are technically possible but it dosent mean we need it in SL.

    Instead of a Search window that connects to Search All why not have a drop down menu with the options for Search-> classifieds, Search->Popular Places, Search->Events, Search -> Places and others.

    This Search All should be somewhere in the back. For the few that need it.

  128. Sinjun says:

    I have tried the new search and it doesn’t work properly. It pulls up places that have nothing to do with what I am searching for and it seems to have forgotten the places that do. Also, the entire top part where the drop-down boxes are *supposed* to be, is somehow superimposed over my search box and if I want to click on anything in that new search window, I have to click about a centimeter below the actual link. I prefer the older search and will continue to use it. This new search is FUBAR’d.

  129. Search all and limiting to classifieds does not pull up classifieds in paid order. Someone with a 50L ad who pummels the description with the same words over and over will get placed higher than someone who paid a hell of a lot more. That has to change. Otherwise, there is no point to paying more for a classified.

  130. Congratulations to LL on their new search. I hope that this is a first step towards making search *open*, like it is on the web. I you want to get the best search possible, we need to have multiple groups working on it.

    To try another search, use SLBrowser: http://www.slbrowser.com . You can you it inworld with a HUD or by putting it into your web profile. It lists 2 million products from all of SL, with images. It has ranking based on true popularity. SLBrowser has had new search for 6 months. and I think LL has learned a lot from us.

  131. Ann Otoole says:

    /me watches as apathy takes over and interest in this topic fades along with most businesses in sl. welcome to sl – the land of welfare island, nude beaches, and anshemart. really says a lot about the dream eh Phillip?

  132. Rex Cronon says:

    There is a bug with the search window. If u want to minimize it, all the GUI elements in that window will disappear, and window will be still visible but will be black.
    p.s.
    an interesting thing. if the sim u r in has major lag(like when u can’t move, what u type doesn’t show up), the new search all tab still works. if u try the older one, u get no answer for the search, but the new one works

  133. Storyof Oh says:

    well new search would be great if you didnt crash on almost every tp….and awaiting regions to rez you almost lose will to live…and NO not system, settings or ISP….otherwise it would do it all the time from day one…. come to think of it……………. 😉
    At least we can read the blogs about 2000 regions shutting down whilst awaiting rezzing….

  134. I really can’t understand just who it is your trying to convince anymore.
    The tests we did this last week show this search to only be a benefit to those that Cheat or SEEM to be paying very unbelievable amounts of money for classified ads.
    This type of Search will kill off 99% of SL land and shop owners.

  135. Christopher Molinaro says:

    finally a Google like search tool! something we have been wanting for a long time, thanks 🙂

  136. Ann Otoole says:

    please take a stand on deceptive advertising in secondlife.

    it makes you look very bad.

    take this example from this very secondlife website showcasing current educational events:
    * FREE CHAPTER OF BEGINNER’S GUIDE TO SECOND LIFE AT ARCHEBOOKS BOOKSTORE NOW!!!
    * second life
    * FREEBIES $L! Vendor Space Avaliable TONS FREE STUFF!
    * Deutscher vhs-Kurs: Flexiprim-Rock erstellen
    * Student Council Meeting @ Rockcliffe University

    so basically we are allowed to advertise our store by giving away a part of a book? and freebies! oh yes thats real educational. ZOMG! one actual educational event showed up!!!!

    This is how *your* website looks. people looking for educational events get spammed right out there on the public image of secondlife.com.

    make deceptive advertising practices a permanent ban offense please.

  137. Lion Ewry says:

    A lot of people are complaing about bots and other forms of deception in SL. Lots of people!

    Why is’nt there an responce to them from LL on here? Why?

    Why? Why? Why?

  138. Ann Otoole says:

    The face of Secondlife:

    this is what secondlife has come to. piles of sleekbot zombies using system resources to inflate traffic. and you can bet every one of those bots lists the business that runs them in their picks.

    drop traffic. drop picks as “inbound links”. make deceptive advertising a permanent ban offense. and then police this thing with diligence.

  139. John Source says:

    The new search is really slow now..it takes like 10 seconds to load the next page, while the other searches seem to respond instantly. Although this kind of ‘webpage’ kind of searches dont use sim resources, they are as slow as average search engines on the internet. Although this search is ‘ powered by’ google, it just doesnt have the speed google has.

    By the way, speaking about ‘deceptive’, half of the posts on this form seem to be madeby ‘Ann Otoole’, possibly giving some readers the impression alot of people are saying the same things, while it’s actually one person repeating her statements

    and no, this is no offence towards ann otoole’s point

  140. John Source says:

    Linden lab?
    a serious comment about the new search (tried it)

    using the new viewer, i found out that furniture that i’ve sold , which was set as ‘show in search’ in my shop, are STILL set as ‘ show in search’ in the house of the people that bought it. It would be really handy if at least items that had selected ‘ show in search’ in stores, automaticly would unselect ‘ show in search’ after someone purchased them. The furniture they bought , which they have put in their homes now, is not even for sale there, yet it still has ‘ show in search’ selected, which doesnt look too logical to me .

    Maybe some lindens can look into this problem, because if it stays like this, 90% of the people that bought my items, can be found in the search (assuming most people wont change this show-in-search option, simply because they dont know about it)

    Eventually BY FAR most results people will get,after searching for common furniture words, are homes of people that once bought an item, but that do not have it for sale now

    I assume this is not the way this is meant ?

    I would appreciate it if a linden could tell me how this was meant

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  142. Zena Juran says:

    New Search FAQ #22 When does the new search get updated?

    “The static HTML pages on world.secondlife.com update twice daily at 3 AM and 3 PM Pacific time. It may take 1-3 days for those updates to be reflected in the search results. Due to the nature of search indexing, we’re not able to make any guarantees about when any changes will appear.”

    ************************************************

    With this is mind, how are businesses going to recieve any decent feedback from changes made in advertising strategies if it takes “days” to see end results? Too many variables can occur in 1-3 days that waiting to see what one change does will be useless.

    My opinion is that “Search” needs to remain at the current (or better) update rate. What use is the “Search” function if can’t reliably and quickly reflect changes in a dynamic virtual world?

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  145. Harper says:

    Praise be to Allah!!!!

    ’nuff said, except for “Thanks” to the developers.

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  147. Jaa Moo says:

    I recognoized something strange with the search. After i have had optimized my parcels description and my selling items i loose my good position at the new search. I have compared the other parcels descriptions and it seems if i search for “abc” its good to have only “abc” once in description and to sell not many items with “abc” in description. My optimizing was to have the “abc” 3x in parcel description and to have it in many objects description too. But 2 days after i have changed i fall from rank 5 to rank 13. Would you please describe why it is best to have less words at parcel?

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