Knowledge Base Article of the Week #3: Capture the Lag

I bet you won’t even have to guess what this week’s Knowledge Base Article of the Week is, ladies and gentlemen! Today we’re going to point you to an article about lag that should shed some light on a topic that’s given most of us a hassle at least once. After you click on that link and log in or provide guest credentials, you’ll be whisked directly to the article in question; read at your leisure about different kinds of lag and what you can do about them.

As Jeremy hinted last week, we’ll be hosting a joint Documentation Office Hour at our surplus couch and deluxe information depot this Friday at 1pm SLT/PST. Feel free to stop by and chat about all things Knowledge Base — suggestions for new articles, information that might be missing, ideas about processes, and so on (as always, support requests are for the Support Portal). Have an excellent week!

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92 Responses to Knowledge Base Article of the Week #3: Capture the Lag

  1. Leather Chaffe says:

    Really? Who cares about this while SL is borked. Anyone? Anyone?

  2. Blinders Off says:

    “This type of “lag” — known as low framerate — usually indicates that your computer is having trouble drawing what it sees. ”

    Or it could be… that since my computer doesn’t have any trouble whatsoever with graphics in any other program I use (and I use some pretty heavy stuff with my Quad-core, Nvidia 8800 GTS system)… that Second Life graphics are not programmed correctly, data management isn’t being performed properly, and the asset servers are wonked.

    People, I know Second Life is unique, and I know it’s a handful. But there are bugs and platform problems on SL that have existed for years.

    Right now Group IMs are all messed up, as are Group Notices. If you can’t even get simple text chat right… how can we expect the more complex things… like GRAPHICS… to be done correctly?

    It’s not us folks. It’s you.

  3. Roy Blanchard says:

    Everyone should have to read a good article on lag before they get to log in again. (haven’t read this one, hope it’s good) LOL

  4. step chaffe says:

    Excellent information about a very misunderstood problem.

    Thanks for the insight,

    Step

  5. @2, Blinders Off:
    Other programs you use, games and such, usually have a much better texture management. People who create stuff in SL use probably a 512×512 pixels image for every prim in their builds. That is very inefficient and will cause your computer to need more processing power than you would normally need for a similar scene in other programs.
    A good tool we could use is an automated texture atlas maker on linked prims or avatars. Let SL combine all those textures into a single texture, and possibly resize where possible. This would give your computer a much needed break and would imo bring database queries down and be easier on the networks.
    Please see https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1188 for thoughts on that 🙂

  6. Doris Haller says:

    I read that article soo many times..

    Blinders Off is right.. it’s not our fault.

    What about the grey people? Or the grey things everywhere? Or that since a week or so the whole environment (like the floor, walls etc) is still missing after minutes?
    Why do I lose more than 12% packets today, and yesterday only up to 5% and in the good ol’ days none? MY ISP or YOURS (they had some more trouble lately)?

    The lag-meter guesses the low framerates are due to “images loading”.. still after I am in a sim for 45 minutes? With my download speed I would load 200 MBytes in 45 minutes, and SL is still loading images?

    No, I think the article is not very helpful.. just a bit

  7. Roy Blanchard says:

    Disappointing lack of details after ya have to LOG IN to read it.

  8. Chaos Mohr says:

    While there is certainly a lot of so called ‘lag’ caused by people using hardware that is just not up to the task, or setting their graphics higher than their hardware can really handle, there is also the other ‘lag’ that many people experience all too frequently. Lag caused by excessive scripts running in a sim (and as part of people’s attachments) – this is one of the major causes of the ‘over 22.5ms total frame time lag which occurs in many sims, especially ones that have lots of people on them.

    Removing unneeded attachments (seriously, does everyone absolutely need their radar’s and scripted gadgets running all the time), and rezzing scripted items which use a lot of script time only when needed are great ways to help reduce this kind of lag.

    Great blog though with some much needed information which shows why good hardware, and a good and dependable internet connection are very important to have the best SL experience possible.

  9. Dekka Raymaker says:

    “Today we’re going to point you to an article about lag that should shed some light on a topic that’s given most of us a hassle at least once.”

    is that once for eternity?

  10. Daisy Beauchamp says:

    Google Second Life Lag and you’ll find much more information. It’s disappointing that you have to go elsewhere to find it.

  11. Ann Otoole says:

    things are really screwed up in sl right now and it is 100% server/database side. transactions failing, nothing will rez, not even a texture viewed from inventory will load. and we get this kb article shoved out here as though someone is trying to deny they have screwed sl up when they changed things last thursday.

    there are trade-offs. but some are not worth it. and whatever trade-off was rolled in last week needs to be rolled back out.

  12. Michael Timeless says:

    Since I use a high end system similar to the one above I too question the usefulness of this article – since I suffer the exact same effects whether using my low end X60 laptop (on wireless while traveling) or my high end dual GPU system (on a cable modem or DSL at home).

    In all fairness the article may apply to some users. What I would like to see is an article that address the possibility that the problem is not on the client side and how to resolve that.

    Having tested hardware since my first Altair I’ve learned that not every problem is client based and if the client hardware is showing the same effects with two different systems than the problem is NOT on the client side.

    As a suggestion set up a test system that can be used as a control with an acceptable low end and high end system. Not to be cynical but with almost 30 years experience I think I know when something is actually the “the conventional definition of lag.”

    Since we’ve recently seen a new “Glastnost” policy here why not go the rest of the way?

    Mike

  13. ONE PO'd RESIDENT says:

    everyones main reason for freezeup and lags for the past 6 months or more is the MEMORY leak that none of u seem to care about or fix SL eats so much memory even after closing the program its just sick

  14. Michael Fairplay says:

    Not very helpful, We know what lag is. Trying to blame it on the customer’s isn’t going to work. As far as the attatchment argument very valid point. But we know people aren’t suddenly going to start detatching everything to make other peoples lives easier. So the solution? Second Life needs to find a way to work around it period. That is what they are getting paid for to provide a good experiance, but then again they don’t have time to work on everything when they are running around enforcing silly rules about what is “broadly offensive”. The lag problem is so bad it’s hard for me to even roleplay in my Harry Potter roleplay anymore. If it weren’t for the fact that I enjoy that so much I’d stop using second life all together.

  15. ONE PO'd RESIDENT says:

    most of the lag i experience is when lindens are working on teh system the freezeups especially when your doing code changes it freezes the game horribly or adding new sims lags teh hell out of uis all i know its not my machine i have no problems with anything else til im using SL then my whole pc gets lagged out cus u eat memory lile its a bag of cookies u havent had in a year

  16. Melanie Milland says:

    That article is true – as far as it goes.

    It explains client lag, network lag, and CAPS disconnection (disconnection from a sim). It also correctly states that, for the latter, you need to relog.

    It doesn’t even mention Asset Lag. That is the kind they don’t want you to know about, worry about. The kind they can’t blame on you, and can’t fix.

    Asset Lag is lag caused by the overloading of the bottleneck that is the asset servers.

    In normal operation, assets are loaded from the asset server, and cached by the simulator. This means that all textures used in in-world prims, and all scripts, are cached in the simulator, to reduce the effect of the bottleneck.
    Still, when the CSI crowd log in, we feel the hit on the asset servers throughout the grid.

    I’m happy to say that today’s asset servers are taking a hit, on a daily basis, that would have crashed the ones they had a year ago. They creak, they groan, but they stay up. Something the scale of CSI would have brought SL to it’s knees 6 months ago. Kudos on the improvements, Lindens!

    Back to the lag. Asset lag is normally not noticeable, it spreads out evenly, it doesn’t often spike, comes and goes in waves instead, as the evening time hits populated regions.

    But, after a rolling restart, it does spike. Restarting a simulator invalidates it’s internal cache. It requires it to reload from the asset server all data that was in the cache before the restart. This doesn’t happen in one go, rather the data is requested as needed, and cached when it is reloaded.
    In practice, this means that rez and attach, wearing of items and inventory operations are hit hardest.

    At some point in the past, changes were made to the rendering queue. Where it used to be that a prim would not be rendered at all unless at least a reduced version of all it’s textures was available, prims are now rendered without any textures. They render as grey, and stay grey until the textures are loaded.

    Unfortunately, I have seen the texture queue (view with ctrl-shift-3) freeze, resulting in those prims staying grey indefinitely.

    This can be fixed only by TPing away and back.

    Inword prim textures can be made to load quicker by hovering the mouse over them. An annoying bug there is that this will accelerate the loading of the surface textures, but not of the sculpt map. Highly sculpted regions suffer worst from this type of “Load Lag”.

    And, finally, there is the Region Crossing Lag, the drifting off into space, running under the ground, walking on and on, that we all know only too well!
    Whenever you cross into a region, all the stuff that makes up your avie is gift-wrapped into a pretty parcel, and given to the sim you’re crossing into.
    During the handoff, the destination sim needs to retrieve the data on all your attachments, all your script states, your wearables, everything.
    While your wearables are all part of the three baked textures, and thus will not get lost, your attachments are just UUIDS, keys, that refer to data stored on the asset servers. The destination sim needs to load these from the asset servers to render the attachments.
    This is where asset lags rears it’s ugly head again.
    One of 4 things will happen:
    – The asset server will, instantaneously and correctly, supply all data needed. In this case, your crossing is smooth
    – The asset server will not deliver any data at all. In this case the viewer will simulate continued motion locally, and you will walk/fly/run on your previous trajecetory, until you relog.
    – The asset server delivers the data late. In this case, the crossign will be rough. You may run 40 m into the new sim, then rubberband back.
    – The asset server will deliver incorrect data. In this case, after you rubberband back, your attachments will be in unmentionable places.

    All the above holds true for TPs as well, except there is no running/flying on, and no snap-back. You simply materialize, and about 1/2 second later, all your stuff snaps to your butt!

    Script states are part of the direct handoff, and are not affected.

    All the above is half knowledge and conjecture, on my part or others. It makesa twisted kind of sense from a software developers point of view, and, while incorrect in details, should be accurate as far as the larger picture goes.

  17. Untame Heron says:

    Not to be too critical, but let’s be honest… that article was a fluff piece. Just open source the server code already and let professionals do a full investigation. Primo PCs can’t handle more than a dozen or two avatars per sim before meltdown; it’s all server side. And what’s with having 108 triangles per cube prim (wireframe a typical sim and prepare to be shocked). And does each server have at least an OC-1 connection? They probably don’t, or whatever load balancing exists isn’t working. You also need more intelligent client-side object definitions to optimize script turnoff, prim simplification and such.

  18. Anonymous says:

    For anyone who cares;

    for Windows users; If you start the client and when at the splash screen (logon screen), press ctrl-alt-del; select “task manager”; then when open select the “processes” tab; find the Second Life.exe (or Nicholaz); right click on that process; go to “set priority” and set it to “LOW”; then click “yes” to the warning box that pops up, THEN login; you may find that Second Life runs MUCH smoother for you.
    (This IS optional; try it and see what happens; it cant make SL any worse 😉 Unfortunately, this has to be done EVERY logon to work.

    I hope this helps some of you as it does me 😉

  19. Vicki says:

    Im aware some of my lag is due to the many attachments I have, unasked, which I CANNOT delete. I am a female, I have a female avatar. I will never want a male avatar- EVER. Tho I may one day want a furry thing. So why cant I delete all those male items loaded into my library?

  20. Naomi babcock says:

    This type of “lag” — known as low framerate — usually indicates that your computer is having trouble drawing what it sees. There may be too much detail in the scene you’re looking at, you may have your graphical Preferences too high, or something else might be taking up a lot of your computer’s processing time.

    Yet. I can run half-life 2, with no dumbing down. Complete with object shadows, true lighting effects, damage decals, reflections, RIPPLING water, and a havok4 (or higher?) physics system, and i have no “lag” of any kind at all, Someone want to explain this? Oh yes, let’s not forget half life 1, and PORTAL

  21. Untame Heron says:

    Asset server, huh? That’s what distributed DBs a la Google are for. No rocket science there. Replicate assets which are stable (untouched for longer than several days). You can also retire unused assets to a secondary DB. And add a ‘locked’ user-definable asset flag so it’s easier to identify stable assets. You have to really ramp up a _lot_ the focus on reducing lag. Visit a game studio if you need experience.

    And improve the core asset library… get more people to use core assets, and you can replicate those and get more distribution (all the way to client-side even). I don’t even know what half those textures are doing in there, they’re godawful fugly.

  22. Melanie Milland says:

    @19: stuff in your library does not cause lag. Only stuff you actually wear can cause lag, and then only if it is prims. Allthe things that show as a little box. Like your FEMALE AO, your FEMALE prim skirt, your FEMALE shoes, your FEMALE hair

    ^^

  23. Untamed Heron says:

    Ultimately it’s all engineering. Scratch an unsatisfactory system, find an apathetic dev team. Everything else is just details. If I owned a sim, I would be looking at filing a class action lawsuit claiming due diligence failure and/or wilful misleading/negligence from lies of ommission. For another $100/mo. you can get your own dedicated OC-1 dual Opteron server from Rackspace — what is Linden doing with all the money they charge yet giving server performance that is closer to dialup?

  24. Can I “capture the lag” and throw it out into deep space so we never see it again???

  25. Brian says:

    I down loaded your little program to see what was up with the connection between sl and my computer. Now according to it the problem is the two steps just outside of my computer. However when I run a ping from my computer to your san fransico site which is the server im sent to imagine this all the packet loss and drop is on you. Hows this for screwed my character butt naked no scripted items on nothing but plain land on a private island with no scripts running and all my video settings to minimum my frames per second are a max of 5.2 and my ping is anywhere from 4 to 3376 or more. I show a constant packet loss of 4.5 minimum and all conversations with you tell me it has to be my computer. I had no problems before your last rolling restart and now my play is crap. So no it isnt my problem it is yours.

  26. les says:

    The reason for lag is simple. Poor design on LL’s part.

    People have no idea how much resources an item uses. There is no way to tell except the number of prims which is in NO WAY AT ALL a decent resource meter. Really. 1 sculpt produces the polys of say, about 300 cubes.

    Let’s look at content creation…

    A creator is faced with many choices when they make something. Should i use a 1024 texture on my vendor for best look or should i use a 256 texture for low lag?

    Guess which they pick…and why not? No penalty.

    A creator makes an AO and they ask them selves…should i put a super fast timer clicking 20 times a second so the AO catches changes right away at the cost of much CPU? Or should i put a 5 times a second timer to reduce load by 75% with a maximum of .2 seconds delay to AO changes.

    Guess which they pick?

    so on and so on.

    Now, say we had a resource meter for items that accounts for everything from texture sizes, polys(NOT PRIMS), script calls…so on, so that a finished object has a number that relates to it’s *estimated* resource use. A “lag score” or “Resource Use Score – RUS”.

    Now, let’s look at market pressure with this meter in use.

    Will you buy the car that has a “lag score” of 500 over the car that has a lag score of 50? What if this was how you managed your resources? What if you had 1000 points to use on your land (relative to land size and CPU type). Would you buy the chair that uses more “lag score”? No, you would not. You would look for things that are clean and not going to use your sims CPU. It would force the laggy crap to the discount bin.

    Same with creators. Now they have this market pressure forcing them to learn how to make decent items. No longer will lag boxes with giant textures that freeze a sim be coveted. People will want CLEAN THINGS naturally. Like water down a hill.

    …and further more! Give us the ability to control how much resources visiting avs can use on our sims. Why should an av be able to walk onto a sim and use greater then all of the sims resources with attachment scripts? There is NO LIMIT on the amount of scripts an av can run. Why the *$#& not? Drives me nuts to make a clean sim then 1 half-wit (under-age) blinging gangster can show up and lag the place. Avatars should also have a “resource use score” to determine how much they can use of a CPU. Sim owners should be allowed to dial in the amount they wish to “give away” to visitors to top up their allowance of resource use. Free avs would have a low base score and be unable to crush a sim single handled. (unless the sim owner CHOOSES to allow unlimited use of resource to visitors). People might even PAY for premium accounts to increase the amount of base resources they could use at once. OMG the concept!

    bleh bleh, 1 million other words. I have pretty much written book on the subject in my pocket.

    I found the knowledge base article to be a waste of text as it doesn’t mention content, gathered avs or stressed sims which are the number one reason for lag.

    go fish.

  27. Duckling Kwak says:

    While it’s good to see a discussion about lag, I have to agree with the comments thus far expressing the feeling that “it’s not OUR (users) problem” – at least not in all cases.

    Network-induced lag is really a two-way street, and the article disavows all responsibility from LL in this respect. I have had a few discussions with Concierge support about this. They’ve been very amicable about it, and their follow-up was great – thank you, guys! Unfortunately, I walked away from my problem reports with the clear understanding that LL does not view ISP management as its responsibility. The scenario is complex, but it’s critical to manage it correctly to deliver reliable and stable Internet-based services to end-users.

    These days it is fairly trivial to identify culprit ISPs between point A and point B. Often times, the offending ISP is neither the service provider’s nor the end-user’s; it’s some intervening ISP between the two. Who’s responsibility is it to work with that rogue ISP to fix their networking problems? IMHO and experience, it is the mark of a successful service provider to do whatever possible to manage that situation vs. telling the end-user (who may not even be aware of or be able to understand the root-cause problem), “your network or ISP may be having issues.” Great, now what?

    The average user has zero leverage with their ISP to resolve 3rd party peering problems. LL has FAR greater leverage through their ISP to get them to work with other ISPs to fix peering problems. Of course, that assumes that LL’s ISPs are any good – and we’ve ALL seen evidence to at least put a question mark on that one…

    ISP bashing aside, as users we also have to be reasonable and understand that LL *CANNOT* directly fix these 3rd party peering problems. Yes, they are in a better position to provide leadership to do so; and, yes, I would argue that they have a moral responsibility to us to at least try. But, ultimately, we cannot expect them to solve every 3rd party peering problem; that’s unreasonable.

    Furthermore, LL cannot possibly resolve every end-user/ISP connectivity issue. Note the difference here. By end-user/ISP connectivity issue I am referring to what LL is stating in the article. It is true; we (the end users) do need to work with our ISPs directly to fix whatever connectivity issues we may have between our computers and our ISP.

    I believe that by “ignoring” 3rd party peering problems LL are missing a golden opportunity to improve service delivery SIGNIFICANTLY without having to make a single coding change or fix any bugs or do anything at their end. This is the low-hanging fruit of Internet service delivery. Regrettably, I really feel that LL doesn’t view 3rd party peering troubleshooting as its problem.

    Many times that we’ve gone through days/weeks of lag problems I’ve been able to map the problems to specific ISPs between LL and several points on the Internet. While these problems don’t affect all users (because different users go through different routes to connect to LL’s servers), the problems do affect a number of users. It is disappointing to see that by not taking the lead to resolve these issues LL are letting us all be affected – and that results in discontent and dissatisfaction not with the rogue 3rd party ISP (who most users don’t even know exists)…but with LL and SecondLife – and that’s simply tragic. It’s unfair to LL, it unfairly creates criticism of SecondLife’s stability/scalability/performance as a technology platform, and it’s unfair to us all.

    Last note – The article referenced in this blog is outdated. For example, it states, “You might try opening the Statistics bar and seeing what your Ping User, Ping Sim, and Packet Loss values are.” However, “Ping User” was removed in 1.18.3(5) September 28, 2007 (* Removed ‘Ping User’ in statistics window (was returning 0, as userserver no longer exists). Good to update one’s documentation before drawing everyone’s attention to it…

    -DK

  28. Melanie Milland says:

    “Local” frame rate (client FPS), as opposed to server FPS, are _never_ the fault of the server, they are always the fault fo _your_ PC.

    It may be that inefficient programming triggers those faults, so that certain games run well, while SL doesn’t. But that is still not a fault of the server, it is a fault of the client.

    But you can’t compare SL to games. SL is not a game. You can play games within SL, but SL itself is not a game.
    In a game, most aspects of the visual are known ahead of time. That allows for a level of opitmization that a _world_, which is what SL is, cannot provide.
    You can never optimize SL like you can Sims Online… because there you have no mutable prims, no freely uploadable textures, and not as fine a control of your avatar.

    Ping times are also most likely not the fault of the SL servers. They are a fault of your ISP, and the net in between your ISP and the SL servers.

    So, lay blame where it belongs.

  29. Brother Burger says:

    Actually, it’s everyone and everythings fault. It’s your computers fault
    for being so loaded down with anti-virus and spyware programs, etc.
    It’s your ISP for losing packets and causing lag on their part, etc.
    It’s the internet backbone that carries your information across every
    platform. including your browser and mail programs, etc.
    Last, but not least, it’s also SL, with all their servers, protocols and
    programming, etc.

    It takes all these things working together in harmony, for YOUR
    experience to work properly.

    Nothing is perfect, including SL.

    For the most part, SL is doing pretty good, and is an ongoing project.

    Does SL need improvement? Of course! Just like everything else.

  30. U M says:

    LLets see Flex objects or other objects of its kind don`t cause lag right ? hahah yea right as some have tried to brain wash for people to believe 😛 .

  31. Melanie Milland says:

    @30: U.M. stop spamming. Flex causes CLIENT side lag, because it is totally client side.
    the faster your PC, the better it can deal with flex.
    Same goes for particles, they are also client side.

  32. rafael guzman says:

    hmmmm. it have theory on lag, but we hope find cure on lag. it sound like but need be done to stop lag. if our avatars were affect as lag on sl., how it be on ao?
    they say you must wear ao for walk. i find if for free. casinos were affect on lag but what cause lag do on our week? if there is hacker or something got us as virus or spam.

  33. wolfpr magne says:

    i say same that weird thing happen in sl. but so we hope we find source to cause lag or rez.
    i did log on it. but i feel stuck but it works on avatars but not moves or invetory cause i tried move but the sl world seem fine but i saw strange lag like earthquke or something.

  34. Vladen Corvale says:

    I have NO issues with lag on other things, be it download, upload, p2p, ftp or whatever. A trace to data.agni.lindenlab.com gives me a small (10-15%) package loss on a host a couple hops away from >lindenlabs<. Yet, in game I get a report of anywhere between 30 and 260% (!!!) package loss. In a 4Mbs link (which is functioning properly, tested on various degress) I get SL using 30-50 Kbps, when up to the last “rolling crap landslide” (some call it “rolling restart”) my connection handled it all easily, using 400-900 Kbps.

    Many people might have inapropriate hardware, internet links, ISPs, whatever. But that’s not my case nor is it the case for the hundreds who started having an issue right after the crap restart.

    Where’s an article talking about when the problem is NOT with the end user or his/her ISP? Oh right, the problem hasn’t even been acknowledged ass existing so far… -.-

  35. richard says:

    ok what second life is saying “everything is our fault”

  36. Alexander Regent says:

    Yeah…and right now….I can’t TP to my private island….. boo hoo….. guess it’s my fault for buying it 😉

  37. Han Sontse says:

    As a working class stiff in PST, it is frustrating to see Office Hours dominantly posted for PST business hours. While I understand why this is, I would like to encourage the primaries for each area of responsibility have some designated ‘clones’ that can hold office hours at times conducive to the growing Global participation in SL….

    Best regards,
    ~HS~

  38. Ree Indigo says:

    How about chat lag? If everybody suddenly experiences a stretch where their messages aren’t going through, then suddenly everything comes pounding through at the same time, in no particular order, and it’s not only perceived that way by one person, but everybody present, it can only mean there’s something wrong with the servers themselves.

    OMG OMG! Coverup! Bring down the Grid and patch 19 unrelated things and call it fixed!

    Look, don’t treat us like children. By and large, we know when it’s our system and when it’s yours. We also know that if you can’t even get the order of text chat right 100% of the time, that it’s useless to even address any lag/latency/timing issues with graphics or physics.

  39. @38, Ree Indigo:
    I’ve seen chatlag in IRC channels, completely unrelated to SL. If it doesn’t always work 100% there, you can’t expect it to work 100% anywhere else.

  40. RebeccaLynn Ferraris says:

    i do have to say, though i don’t have the most high end computer, i never had the lag problems i’ve been having since this last roll out. From the comments posted, i would think that LL be looking into the problem rather then attempting to give us a palpative. I think LL should just admit that something occurred in the last roll out that is causing more lag and research and fix it. And perhaps articles should be better coordinated with problems – i personally would not have posted an article on lag when so much had occured directly after a roll out. That is a scenario guaranteed to create ire rather than support.

    And i do agree that we as consumers need a better way of being able to tell what we are purchasing is going to cost in resources. i’ve purchased some lovely things over time that turn out to have so many prim or so much script i wouldn’t use them or wear them, but often, there’s no way to tell. I would certainly frequent merchants first who posted that information if LL gave an extra column on their search page with a simple check mark to denote merchants who label the contents of their goods.

  41. Yngwie Krogstad says:

    Regarding lag, I’ve been noticing something that bears investigation. I don’t know for sure what the issue is, could be a third-party provider somewhere between my ISP and SL’s servers, but this seems to be a very serious problem.

    After the extreme failure of last Friday afternoon just before 4 PM, things in SL have changed drastically. For the worse.

    The two traffic monitoring bars in the upper right corner of my screen have been stable for months, but suddenly after Friday’s problems, they’re far from stable anymore. Red spikes on both the left and right sides (as I recall, the left reflects packet loss, and the right actual data?) have been through the roof. This has been accompanied by a severe increase in failures to load textures, leaving walls in our store that I spend 90% of my time in remaining unrezzed for hours.

    Is there any way we can all work together to identify the cause of this problem and get it corrected?

    I can only surmise that there’s a direct link between your (unnamed) provider’s “catastrophic” failure which took their entire system offline on Friday, and the problems that have been a constant ongoing issue since then.

  42. Mojo Mathys says:

    there are so many issues that affect the stuff we all call lag that is is almost ridiculous to try to address it in this way.

    but here are a few things to think about:
    my gf and I play Sl together and share the same cable connection and we have very different machines.

    hers is an amd1800+ w 1 gig ram and an ati 9600 w her sl cache set at 512.

    mine is a quadcore extreme w 8gigs ram and 2 ati 1950s in crossfire mode and sl cache at 512

    we both set our sl graphics settings the same

    my frame rate is super good most of the time hers is very clunky but her textures load at least 10 times faster than mine do and hers will all be loaded in most cases after only a minute or so, however mine will stay grey for over an hour at times.

    on an overall performance scale in most cases except for the usual frame rate difference she gets better performance and fewer crashes than i do.

    obviously there are problems on both sides user and provider but to redirect everyones attention away from more serious issues that lag is ridiculous.

    as for the texture issue all I can say is I tried to help out by making introductions at at the Austin game conference. Cor meet Seb, he has a company that makes a product called “PROFX”. Besides being an awesome procedural texturing system it also has a proprietary compression system to squeeze a 150mb graphics file into a 5k one! what happened?

    as for the whole prim count thing, most half decent systems today can push a crapload of triangles and I have seen server solutions now that can track 50,000 avatars in a as close an area as they can fit so blaming lag on the number of prims or the number of attachments an avatar is wearing is also a diversion away from the huge tech problems that sl is dealing with

    so why voice? I havent seen anyone using it since it was implemented and most people I chat with say they dont like it and would use ventrillo or some other system if they really wanted to chat with the in worlders, shich most do not for reasons we all have heard. gender switching, breaking the fantasy etc.

    windlight? cooler skies and “maybe” a better overall lighting and atmospheric model? mmmmmmaybe but could we wait for the ability to actually rez or delete stuff on command instead of whenever the servers can get around to it.

    better physics? so we can all have cooler cars to drive where? or cooler flying machines to fly around and over all the red fences? bowling alleys maybe? could we just have a more stable system, better asset management and some real interest in dealing with in world issues like griefing and land harrassment and scam artists and heavens no “building codes” for mainland areas to get the ad farms and other crap under control?

    so we get a pretty world where we can speak to each other and bounce off walls but can’t log in, rez anything, delete anything and lose our inventories!

    awesome!

  43. Isabeau Imako says:

    Oh Yay! Another bunch of comments about how SL sucks!!! I’m glad some of you have suggestions and positive things to say besides “the Lindens are incompetent”. To say you are disappointed is one thing, as a customer it is your right… I agree. But really, do any of you think the LL are doing everything in their power to MAKE SL laggy? It is of course in their best interest ($$$) to make their customers happy. It is your choice to sit tight and enjoy the ride, or log off and come back in a few years, when everything will be “perfect”. I, for one, am jumpin’ in… WEEEEEEEEE

  44. Sonja Felisimo says:

    HI

    I read the blogs here daily but rarely place a comment…..well the only time I did was about the european VAT problem…..but thats a different story….lol.

    I have a system with an Intel 5200+ …2 gb ram…. nvidia 8500 GT card with 512 mb memory……….running Vista Premium Home. My internet conection is just a DSL connection with 2 mb from T-Online here in germany.

    Now i have no problems with lag…….crashing……..bad fps…..etc……like the majority of the people who have posted here. Ok now and again i have had sl crash on me but this was mainly due to stupid scripted items i bought and used……but this was very rare and since i now look carefully at items i use this problem doesn’t occur anymore.

    The majority of people I know in SL…..mostly people from germany like myself………..don’t experience these problems either. The people that I know that do have these problems all have on thing in common…………..regardless of their PC config or operating system…..they mostly all come from the USA. Which to me seems very strange and would in my opinion point to a problem with ISP’s in the USA and not PC hardware clientside or problems with Linden and SL itself. A fact which underlines my idea is the fact that a majority of the problems LL seem to have are also caused by their ISP services.

    I don’t mean to offend people with my comments……just wanted to air my thoughts.

    greetz from Hamburg
    Sonja

  45. Sonja Felisimo says:

    Ups …….hihi…..mistake in my last comment………..processor is AMD 5200+…….lmao can see i am no pc expert.

    greetz again
    Sonja

  46. Stephe Erhler says:

    This is WAYYYYY off topic but since this was never mentioned again…

    FIX THE EVENT CALENDER!!!!!!

    When is LL going to do something about the SPAMMERS on the event calender? They posted months ago how they were going to get strict with this, have a bold warning about abusing this system, yet have done NOTHING. One guy is posting 25 “events” a day to same store using alts for a *$10 special sale* at rebelz island and another guy for $10 animations and poses also posting 25+ events a day EVERYDAY! Dozens more have a dozen or more “events” a day and about 90% of the calender’s events, have no host at them. They are just advertizments for a store selling stuff.

    More and more people are doing this because LL refuses to send one employee to spend an hour looking at the OBVIOUS abuse of the event system. Of course if you send a abuse report, it does nothing. I doubt if anyone even reads them so I gave up sending them in.

    So PLEASE, can you give some linden the job of cleaning this mess up so people can use this for what it was designed for, showing residents where HOSTED events are being held instead of a free classified for yard sales, which there are hundreds of them listed for today??????

  47. May I repeat myself another time: lag has multiple components, and just measuring the frame rate don’t caracterize it properly.

    For instance it is much better to have a low framerate like 4FPS, but constant, than having a very good one (30FPS) but which freezes when we don’t want to.

    Some of the lag components are in the viewer (slow frame rate when many avatars in the scene, freezing when opening a profile…).

    Other lag components are in the servers (slow rez, chat lag, inventory not showing…)

    But the less known sources of lag are in the PC: when windows scrape the disk to use the “virtual memory” (the disc) in place of using the normal memory. When this happens, SL freezes, for sometimes 10 to 100 seconds!!! I think there exists ways to force windows to use the real memory instead. I heard of softs doing this, but I don’t know reliable sources.
    Other sources of SL freezing are within our reach: when some programs are working in the “background” (in microsoft terminology, this means a program actually running in the foreground and having priority on the user’s task). So a good idea is not to have things such as outlook express running (it freezes SL when downloading mails)
    Antiviruses updates or Windows update too may start sessions unexpectedly and freeze SL. There probably are means to temporarily delay such automated updates, but I don’t know how.

  48. Borky Grid says:

    @25 nice sum up. Totally agree

    Pull your fingers LL and stop acting so bloody IT department like…”if you would just do like we want to you too, it would all work fine…” BUT WE DON`T! DAMN IT! WE ARE THE CUSTOMERS, YOU ARE THE BLOODY PROVIDER!

    It´s the freaking same with you IT folks everywhere…Just that you, LL, only seem to consist of them and so there is no customer focus at all in your company…No one inside the company who would tell you first thing first, before you can play around with voice, windlight and other unneeded toys.

    I would really hope a big rl company is trying to make business inside sl…Cose they would sue you to hell in no time. And all private users could do too on their backs!

    Enough is enough, wake up!

  49. Erinyse Planer says:

    Ok, this article is kinda funny since its obvious that the pr people wrote it and not the tech people. how do i know this? the techies ADMIT SL is a bugged work in progress that needs allot of DEBUGGING. The former governance team, which is now god knows what, and the pr people all try t make us believe everything that goes wrong is on our end. Maybe just maybe if they would let the techies do their job, and listen to both their techies AND their customers, SL would have over 46,000 users at peak time again.

    Pure and simple, want to get rid of the majority of the lag? Let the techies do what they need to do to fix it. Forget the new features, forget trying to wow us with the next mistake you will bring out. Forget the age verification thats being brought in with a company being taken to court right now for selling personal information and using an ILLEGAL method to do it anyways.

    BEFORE doing any of this ass backwards stuff, heres a list that you should put on your priorities!
    1) Fix your restart system
    2) start actually policing the servers for harassment, and stalking, and griefing or give us the tools to do it
    3) fix mute so people STAY muted and CANNOT get around it
    5) hire people to answer support requests that actually know what the hell their talking about. I actually had three tickets closed out by the same idiot who DIRECTLY CONTRADICTED WHAT THE TECHIES STATED telling me there wasnt no problem in one, when i just sent in a support ticket with information REQUESTED BY A TECHIE to help SOLVE THE PROBLEM WHICH WAS ALSO POSTED ON THE BLOG % MIN LATER!!
    6) calibrate havak 4 properly. Its not rocket science. The improper calibration is causing lag! lots of it!
    7) Make SL Automatically resize and rescale textures on objects. It takes only a few lines of code.
    8) Fix the stupid database. not only is it so sloppily written it loses things, but it lags down badly when searching for older items or when adding new ones
    9) FIX THE LAG BUILT INTO THE CLIENT. Amazing that the 3rd party clients dont lag NEARLY as bad as the Linden Labs one.
    10) simplify the base prim meshes. My god i have NEVER seen any other game or virtual world that needed over 200 triangles to draw a tiny cube.

    Start with these little things …. Then come and talk to us about whats are fault.

  50. Erinyse Planer says:

    Oh one more thing… remind your billing support people they are required under multiple federal acts to provide their employee numbers when asked, to give a valid street address and corporate office phone number when asked, and to connect you to a manager when asked. Failure to do those things can actually get yoru company shut down.

  51. LW says:

    hah this is funny and has nothing at all to do with SL

  52. Swythe says:

    You all make me laugh so hard when you accuse LL of causing the lag you experience.

    You see I build a lot in SL, and lag in my region is literally non issue. The region itself can handle 30+ people with fully loaded fur AVs (high scripts, usually 22+ ms of frame time total. Region object count is also at 10,000, with a stable sim fps of 44fps, and no phyics. Plus megaprims out in the open.

    How did I do it? Its called KNOWING MY FACTS.

    Much of the lag in SL IS created by the UNESSASARY asset load that the USERS make. So many people don’t optimize or benchmark their scripts, compress their textures, or find ways to build with less prims. They just do it, and don’t consider the resource impact it creates, only the L$ they can make off it.

    Did you know that a lot of frame rate lag can be solved by removing mesh trees? Or exploiting back face culling with clever building locations? Or just tweaking your comp? I did, then again I get 60fps and have my draw distance at 512m.

    How much lag is serverside? MUCH less then you think. Every so often the grid bottlenecks, asset and login servers sometime choke or feel pressure. Every so often something goes wrong in LL (and every company, even walmart has problems happen behind the scenes).

    The Sl grid is very redundant, reliable, and stable. If a small portion of it goes down, if any vital compontent fails, not everything is lost. Regions are also backed up hourly too to prevent data loss.

    LL’s code can be optimized, yes… but I can tell you that 99% of LSL based scripts can be too. Believe me I know, I watched my estate tools.

  53. Vladen Corvale says:

    You make me laugh when you state you “know your facts”.

    Did you know most of the people complaining about lag had no problem at all until a few days ago when the “upgrades” and “rolling restarts” happened?

    Are you saying the same unchanged areas, with the same unchanged scripts somehow increased the client-side lag of hundreds of people in a matter of hours?

    Scripts are a bane on SL, any programer knows that. Bad, useless scripts like blings, using dozens of listeners and other crap can create a lot of problems, but they do NOT start causing packet losses of 260% (my new record) all of a sudden and remain causing ridiculous lag for days straight no matter how many people are in the area (even if you are ALONE).

    Before you “laugh so hard” and try to blame my (and others’) ISP, a trace route says the only package losses are on hops close to LL and on LL server (even if LL’s stays at 2-3% only).

  54. Chrysala Desideri says:

    estate tools can give bunk results.

    a simple touch-content giver, 3 lousy lines of script, rated as #1 lagger in our sim by the manager’s estate tools.

    this with active scanners and vehicles present.

    i don’t even know where i could get accurate stats from at this point.

  55. Selavy Oh says:

    Lindens, this “knowledge”-base article unfortunately gives the impression that there’s not much knowledge about the topic at Linden Lab.
    But we, the users, are not stupid, we could easily digest a bit more detail. See all the great responses here; seems as if all the knowledge is in the responses instead of the article!
    Please try to take us seriously, and go into more detail for the next knowledgebase stuff.

  56. Rift Rehnquist says:

    I think #5 Daedalus Hit the nail right one the head here. The key to making SL a lot less heavy when it comes to processing things like textures is to set a limit on texture sizes in respects to both pixel size (e.g. 512×512) and data size (e.g. 250k).

    This is going to significantly reduce the load on rendering pipelines therefore making SL run more smoothly and efficiently.

    When professional game designers create games they are set with these limits simply due to the fact that you can only package so much onto a CD or DVD. However the fact remains that these limits are also in place to govern the principles of platform performance and efficiency.

    This is not the be all and end all of solutions, but it will prevent the relatively clueless from producing texture oriented content that will blow a viewer out of the water. Some people think “hey bigger is better right”? “Well I’ll just Save that 1000x1000pixel image at oh whats a good quality size? Oh yeah 850k? yeah that’ll be good enough”

    The awful truth is that this kind of ignorant cranial activity is largely responsible for a rather significant potion of SL’s woes when it comes to viewer related rendering issues (database issues aside) it bogs systems down and creates huge amounts of load on both servers and clients alike.

    So to cut my post kinda short. Linden Labs be professional and set some limits to texture based content creation. You have it with sounds, you have it with animations, hell you even have done it with prim sizes which i am pretty sure required a monumental alteration to the Second Life Building Engine itself. So why not just take the next logical step and place some reasonable caps on the respective limits of uploaded texture content?

  57. elise sands says:

    bring windlight, get rid of banlines (they are soo stupid) and make sure no one overfills the sim.. leave at least a 2% buffer for passing aircraft oh yes and Bring WINDLIGHT who the h*ll needs audio we can use Google talk or Skype on our own!!!!!!!!!

  58. shifzr says:

    well, not quite as enlightening as i had hoped for 😉
    u might consider touching the subject in more depth sometime (please!)

  59. #55, the problem with textures is that they are in a poorly compressed format (.tga). Should we have .png, the size would be “-5 times smaller and allowing for various levels of quality (low quality=smaller size) with still transparencies as in .tga
    and in more it is easier to create a transparency in a .png than an alpha channel in a .tga

  60. Leeloo Nykvist says:

    Another check: Hold alt down and spin the camera around. Does this lag?

    Spinning the camera is client side, so if it lags, a new graphics card or drivers is what you want (for many of you complaining about lag on your big-ass cards, it would be the drivers).

    However, if spinning the camera is smooth with no slowdowns, but walking is like having something sticky under your feet, sim or network lag is the problem. Look at the colored bars in the upper right corner. If they are black, blame the sim. If they are yellow or red, blame the network. And network lag could be anywhere from your DSL modem to Linden Lab needing to call their ISP or replace a broken switch.

  61. Leeloo Nykvist says:

    #58: No, for some reason TGA has become the recommended format for uploading textures, but internally everything is converted to JPEG2000 which compresses way better than PNG (JPEG2000 is lossy, PNG is not).

  62. Pepper Haas says:

    Thank you all so much who have given great info and tips about lag, and will Blue Linden please read post #46

  63. Lee Ponzu says:

    Another Important Source of LAG

    A lot of ISPs have some sort of Fair Access Policy, or FAP. You go along just dandy, until you have downloaded too much data, and then the ISP reduces your bandwidth to dialup speeds. Some ISPs do not warn you that this is the case.

    The first few times this happened to me, I thought it was some sort of SL caused lag, but of course it turned out to be the ISP.

  64. Ricky Lucero says:

    I’d like to say the article is great, but it’s not. It needs to directly point out more items in the statistics bar for monitoring sim performance. I know there’s a link to it, but how many people are actually going to read the entire statistics help topic?

  65. Xzavia Yifu says:

    @13 concerning Memory Leaks

    This became such a problem for me that I actually prepared a notecard to hand out to people. Please note this involves doing things in your own computer, if you are uncertain of how to do these things as for help or just don’t do it..sorry can’t be held responsible but the instructions are pretty good and I tell you it really works for me, not for everything but for a lot =^.^=

    REALLY Fixing Your SL Cache Fixes Many Problems (notecard title)

    I’ve been on SL for more than a year in one account or another and I thought I knew how to deal with most problems but I found one I couldn’t conquor.

    My main account simply could not log on no matter how hard I tried. I wasn’t being blocked and my other two accounts could log in but not my main (and most important one). Well I should say, I couldn’t log on on MY pc, my friends Mac let all 3 of my characters on.

    Hmmmm that’s weird! Well after 2 weeks of no help at all from LL a friend suggested a last ditch effort that he uses. I tried it and immediately afterwards I was able to log back in as my main account, Huray!

    Before I give you these tips let me say that these work for me and many others however I am not a computer specialist and cannot be held responsible if you accidentally delete the wrong thing. If you get error messages or things asking you to delete all etc then STOP, you’re doing something wrong. Otherwise continue on your merry way to a smoother running SL.

    – go to start menu then click on RUN
    – in the box that comes up type in %userprofile% and hit enter
    – now you’ll come to your own profile folder
    – go to applications data folder
    – if you don’t see a folder with that name you’ll need to show hidden folders
    – you do that by going to the top clicking on tools
    – folder options
    – click on the view tab
    – then there is a button midway down for show hidden files
    – click on that and go back to the folder you were just in
    – now you’ll see applications data so click on that
    – once you’re in there open the SL folder
    – inside the SL folder you’ll see a folder called cache
    – delete the entire thing don’t worry you won’t mess sl up

    Question: ok…..but i do empty cache in preferences evry week…is that a different one?

    see when sl clears it’s cache it’s not thorough and empyting the main cache via SL preferences does not address the frequent memory leaks that cause much trouble in SL. It was those memory leaks that made my main unable to log in but allowed my others, simply put, they hadn’t been on long enough to build up so many problems that it kept them from the logging in at all. I was able to log all three of them in on a friends computer because there wasn’t a build up in the cache folder on their machine. Using this technique can save you from many SL issues. if you still have problems after that completely uninstall and reinstall sl

    If that doesn’t work write many support tickets and call SL if it’s really bad. Best of Luck

  66. Ric Mollor says:

    Eventually Linden Labs is going to have to deal with the issue of load balancing across the grid. It’s absolutely foolish to have 10,000 regions idling while one is staggering from a group of blinged out avatars.

    Can they do it and do it within the existing contracts for hosting regions? That’s the tough question.

  67. Wayfinder Wishbringer says:

    THE *REAL* WAY TO REDUCE LAG

    The article referred to in this blog was (frankly) one-sided and doesn’t really help people. It puts the blame for lag unfairly on the customers and completely ignores server-side issues. So I figured I’d write my own little anti-lag article here, and hope it helps.

    FACT: No matter what you do, no matter how well your sim is designed, no matter what settings you use, you are STILL GOING TO LAG. Why? Because Second Life has serious programming and server issues. It’s just that simple. SL lags in and of itself and there is NOTHING the user can do to stop that.

    FACT 2: Three years of complaints about lag and it’s only gotten worse, so until LL changes its management viewpoint, there is still going to be lag. LL keeps adding new “toys” that lag the system even further, so until some serious re-thinking and re-structuring is done, if anything lag is just going to get worse.

    HOW TO REDUCE CLIENT-SIDE LAG
    Server issues are at Linden Lab. Nothing you can do about that. “Client side” is your SL software setup that is running on your computer. There is a lot you can do about that. Here are several suggestions, some free and some that will cost:

    1. The not-free suggestion. If you can afford it, get the heaviest duty computer and graphic card you can buy. It is amazing what a dual-core or quad-core computer does to lag issues. It is doubly amazing what happens when you slam a high-level, high-memory graphics card into your system. Rule of thumb: the better your graphics card, the better SL runs. There will still be significant lag, but it will go from frustrating to tolerable. Bottom line though, SL is poorly designed (sorry, them’s the facts) and makes far more demands of your computer equipment than it has any right to make. So the more powerful your equipment, the better SL operates.

    Now for the free ones…

    CLIENT-FIXABLE THINGS
    * Reduce your draw distance (EDIT / PREFERENCE /GRAPHICS). While it limits visibility, a draw distance of 64 requires far less graphics processing than a draw distance of 256. If you have a low-end graphics card, this one step will do more to reducing lag than anything. At the time of this writing, you can buy a new, 320meg Nvidia 8800 graphics card for under $300. If you can afford, it, that’s the way to go. (Other graphics cards are viable as well. That’s just the one that’s popular with the SL circles today. Great blend of price and power).

    * Turn off “fog”. (EDIT /PREF / ADV GRAPHICS). This is counter intuitive, because to turn off fog, you have to set it to the max rating of 4.0. Fog is a graphic. Fog lags. It’s unnecessary. Turn it off.

    * Turn off “clouds”. Same concept as fog. To turn off clouds: ctrl-alt-shift-

    * Same menu, set “maximum particle count” as low as you can accept.

    * If you have a really lousy graphics card, disable bumpmap and shiney in “Graphics Detail”. It will seriously reduce your SL viewing experience, but it will also seriously reduce client-side lag.

    * Turn “Avatar Rendering” to normal. (Note, each one of these suggestions will reduce graphics performance, so it’s a fine balance as to what you want to leave on or turn off. But at least SL will continue to work, even though the experience may not be as detailed as one would like. If you want detail… install that new, expensive graphics card).

    * Well, bottom line, if you are having really serious lag, turn everything in the GRAPHICS DETAIL tab as low (or off) as you feel accpetable. The lower/off you go, the less graphics-based lag.

    * TURN OFF MUSIC AND VIDEOS. If you want music, use your own local music player. SL music lags.

    * EDIT/PREF/ADVANCED GRAPHICS: Turn off antistropic filtering. Turn down Outfit Composite Limit.

    * Turn OFF voice chat. Despite propaganda and other nonsense, every “feature” added to the system increases lag. (I mean, get real PR department). Yes, SCULPTIES, FLEXIS, and TORTURED prims lag. Every single “feature” added to SL increases lag… so shut off the unnecessary ones (and only you can be the judge of what is unnecesssary).

    I’m sure there are may other suggestions. These are the easy and available ones. Now, for things you might not be able to control.

    SIM ISSUES
    If you are a sim or major-land owner, you can control these things to an extent. If not… if you’re on the Mainland, you just have to live with it, cos LL sure isn’t going to moderate it software-side. LOL

    * Keep scripts low and simple. It’s true, the fewer the scripts, the less lag there will be. Avoid scripts that use “timer” and “open listen” functions (that respond to general puplic chat commands. /63 etc type commands or touch-mens are just fine).

    * Avoid particle excess.

    * Keep prims as low as possible.

    * Where possible, use 128×128 or 256×256 textures. Try to never exceed 512×512.

    * Avoid odd-size textures (137 x 429).

    * Keep the total number of textures to a minimum. The more different textures used, the more the simulator has to load.

    * Avoid the use of excessively tortured prims. (Basic shapes are the best shapes.

    * DEFINITELY avoid sculpties and flexis where possible. You want to see some real lag… set out 300 flexis blowing in the wind, or 300 large-size sculpties moving around on avatars. For an example of serious avatar lag… hang around dragon islands. ; ) (I love dragons, but they do lag).

    * Keep persona bling and prims to a minimum. An avatar wearing 800 prims can cause more lag than an entire sim put together.

    * Limit SOUND devices. Every sound device added to a piece of property increases overall lag.

    * Ignore propaganda. The claims that “lag is caused by client issues” is just plain bogus. Even empty sims can lag (yes, it’s been tested). Fact is there are serious server/asset issues with Second Life and no amount of client content correction is going to fix that… because that is Linden Lab side. The platform is very unstable, it’s just that simple.

    OK, I’m sure I haven’t covered everything, but this is a bunch of it. There are likely deep-down tweeks (difficult to do and potentially dangerous) that might reduce lag more, but these are the main concepts. Hope it’s of benefit in helping folks to improve their SL experience. Best wishes to all!

  68. Jack Hathor says:

    I wonder in how far we suffer when someone with a bad/slow connectionspeed enters the sim. is there a direct relation between me and the visitor ? Is there some indicator to read someone elses pingvalue ?

  69. Jenn says:

    Easy way to fix the lag is to stop in world builds and have sl make a game pack foe gmax and do submits one prim one texture 90% lag!! SL needs to up date there system big time there so so so out of date on things!!

  70. pantaiputih korobase says:

    i am still thinking positive, SL will survive another day 🙂
    thouhg there are issues 🙂

  71. AWM Mars says:

    The vast majority of lag experienced in SL is Time Dilation, this is an indicator only of the Grid servers not syncing correctly and showing latency. It becomes very noticeable to those with powerful systems, when LL is ‘fondling’ a section of the grid relevant to any form of database/asset server and or connection.

    It’s no secret that the core database hasn’t scaled up too well. In fact it has probably been the most common cause of lag in SL for the longest time. I suspect the load balancers are a bit overrun as well, epscially between the secure servers.

    When the grid grows expotentially, once the serverside code becomes open source, and the client developes into a standard browser pluggin, which it has to to maintian momentum and capture the markets for the 3D web, what will be left in LL’s hands (in simple terms) will be the authentication/loggin, assest database (although that will fade along with the micro economy) and API developments, then the problems associated with lag, will be no more than anyone ‘normally’ expects with the internet.

    Microsoft are already going some way towards the internet becoming as secure as a intranet, with some of the packet protections of Vista. What is basically hampering security developements within the internet grid, is the lack of adopted standards. Perhaps, when security is hardwired into the CPU and becomes a standard, things will move forward.

  72. Ann Otoole says:

    i hit 120 fps this morning. sculpties and all. try upgrading your computers to something old and reliable like AMD 64 bit CPU and Dual SLI nVidea 6800 pros.

    as for damning prim attachments.. LL? You made these features available. If you can’t write a client to support the features then get out of the business and sell SL off to a company with real 3D software engineers.

  73. Dirk Felix says:

    Be truthful for once, lag is al about your flawed platform and the so-called need to add more features to be competitive. Your customers want and deserve an envrironment that works today. Unfortunatly like most companies, LL has a certain market share and feel that the past with all the warts is still better than most competiors. If any LL staff had to put up with the BS that has become the LL way of doing business, you would be complaining and revloting.

    We all have expectations, mine is to have platform code that is designed for standards that are required for anything designed as new. You have had ample time to achieve this, even put some effort into making changes, but the fact remains that the majority of the system is at the mercy of patches and legacy spaghetti code. Lag is shameful and demonstartes the unscalabiliy of the platform. If you spent as much time fixing this issue as you do with trying to sell it, everyone would be in a better place 😉

  74. Raban Laborde says:

    After the update and restart disaster yesterday this is not really my first care….

  75. @66, Wayfinder Wishbringer:
    “Odd-sized textures” are converted to the lowest-next “proper” value anyway. A 137 x 429 texture will be uploaded as 128 x 256. 511 x 513 will be uploaded as 256 x 512.

  76. Cloud says:

    The article was disappointing. Are there NO ways you know of that residents can learn to reduce lag, aside from “buy new hardware”???? No comments re: scripts, listeners, or other inWorld controllable lag generators? Of course no comments about what LL might be working on to eliminate the world’s ARCHITECTURAL flaws like asset management, or even any explanations of why SL graphics lag is so much greater than in client-heavy worlds most of us have experienced? (We’re not all geeks, guys; SL looks like bad software to non techie gamers).

    Disappointing article. Important topic. Try again, please.

  77. Temperance Hax says:

    I adore the ability to create that causes the server side lag, so please dont fix that bit of SL.

  78. Drako Nagorski says:

    im running on a card thats 4th or 5th best on the market (radeon x1950 pro), and i have the same problems from when i didnt have a graphics card at all! most of the crap we deal with is ASSET SERVER problems and not US! for the millions of USD you bragged about (i believe it has been removed, anyone remember the USD Spent in Last 24hrs. meter?) one would expect that the game works correctly! spend a little of that cash on fixing your platform (wont call it a game :P)! Buy some nice shiny new servers, rewire em (your using old old tech). a total overhaul of your servers and system would be very much appreciated. then you can fix the bugs and problems that plague us day to day. and after SL is fixed and happy, then you can tweak windlight and whatever it is your currently working on.

    i do find it nice that the updates for tomorrow are things we need. i also like that some of your projects have gone silent (or is that a bad thing? still trying to find ways around the law with AV, huh? note that most of the time, AV went silent after the protest only to be brought back up with some other sloppy solution.)

  79. Flew says:

    18 Anonymous Says:

    November 6th, 2007 at 5:43 PM PST
    For anyone who cares;

    for Windows users; If you start the client and when at the splash screen (logon screen), press ctrl-alt-del; select “task manager”; then when open select the “processes” tab; find the Second Life.exe (or Nicholaz); right click on that process; go to “set priority” and set it to “LOW”; then click “yes” to the warning box that pops up, THEN login; you may find that Second Life runs MUCH smoother for you.
    (This IS optional; try it and see what happens; it cant make SL any worse Unfortunately, this has to be done EVERY logon to work.

    I hope this helps some of you as it does me

    Thanks, tried it and it does help (a bit).

    Havent read the article yet and reading the comments i guess i dont have to. I only want to know how i can reduce the lag from my end (as in computer settings).I dont need an explanation on the kinds of lag itself.

    And i agree with some of the other comments that SL uses up to much memory on my pc cos of the leak. I mean come on, i have a fast pentium4 with high graphics and a cable connection of 2mb…and especialy in sandboxes i have to relog every 10 to 15 minutes, cos the memory usage on my pc gets out of control. i start out with a memory usage of 350mb to 400mb and after 10 minutes the usage is like 750mb and keeps on climbing…

    SL is great, I really love it! but the lag and crashes all tehe time kills the fun bigtime… The main reason why i still have a basic (free) account.

  80. Vladen Corvale says:

    Yay now SL is back to sticking me to 10,10,10 whenever I log in again! Is someone seriously going to try to say that’s my hardware or internet connection’s fault? >.>

  81. Anthony Hocken says:

    @Daedalus Young

    That texture tool sounds like one I make available too. Texture Optimizer which is free from Crystal Gadgets (Babeli sim). Allows you to put several images into a single texture and then show parts of the texture on various faces. Which means the viewer only has to download one texture instead of several.

  82. Craig Solzhenitsyn says:

    Read the article

    Re-read the article

    Got my brother to read the article

    He re-read it again

    and both of us has come to the same conclusion

    WTF?

    Ok – so maybe that sounds like newbies – so quick background – My older brother (he’s 24 and banned from second life for being ‘underage’… erm yeah) is a coding wizard – C+ C++ PHP Java Etc Etc – and currently does websites for people on a he ‘picks which company to do’ basis (Kornation just wants to say miss you stillpink and co!) and I (who is 23 btw) was until recently an assistant manager in a resturant, with my hobbies being collecting and refurbishing Pc’s and online gaming (was at one point ranked 31st in CS:S). My brother joined Sl over 3 years ago and got me roped in around 2 years ago.

    So we do know about Sl’s ‘Lag’ issues, internet connections, traffic and computer related issues.

    We both agree that with Sl’s massive uptake of more players and a huge growth of traffic this entailed, Linden Labs have held on extremely well, scaling the system up a few thousand fold. but this doesn’t fix underlying problems, the main one being the huge memory leak, with other subsidies that include textures that don’t load at all, chat lag that causes lines of text to appear before the sentence that was written before, attachments not attaching to their rightful place and many more.

    I currently own an island in second life, and as i’ve mentioned i am an ex-assistant manager (i left the job for personal reasons), with second life adding VAT to the island price now (even though the house of commons hasn’t gotten to the issue of international online purchase’s and how to deal with it) and all the issue’s surrounding second lifes ‘lag’, greifing, ‘im here to make money – give me money’ newbies and real life income problems, is it worthwhile still owning it?

    Craig Lynas
    aka Craig Solzhenitsyn
    Island owner for now
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

    Other notes Btw…

    @66 – Thank you, you covered virtually all the spots. I do use 128×128 and 256×256 textures where possible, and have strict script monitoring. also bling-tards are warned, re-warned then kicked.

    @46 – Second Life is, indeed, in need of a ‘Policing Linden’, to police the events calander and to provide a more instant greifer relief.

    To Blue Linden, keep your chin up, probably not the best choice of words when pointing this article out but it would help a few people

    -=-=-=-=-=-=-
    And from my brother…

    To Linden labs, I have sent you passport, previous work payslips, birth certificate and even bank statement scans to prove that I am who I say I am and above the age of 18, all sent to the concierge email address provided in the support section, I still want to return to second life as my previous self (Kornation Bommerang) and want to have my 2 other alts associated with my credit card re-enabled aswell (Minimum Resistance and Sergeant Detritus, both paid for.), and I would like to correct the address and email details on these accounts, (at that time i spent half the week at one address and vice-versa).

    I would like to return before the next Relay For Life so i can help out with building the sims this time, and also post a new distance record (I did 150 laps of the first RFL and first to 100 of the second – both unassisted using only the built in run feature CTRL+R.).

    I know its off-topic but other forms of contact has been ignored, I have emailed this to the provided email address’s several times over the last year to no avail, and last time I spoke to someone on the phone (even though I have a fear of phones, i had to set up skype specifically to do this) I was politely asked to ‘Fuck Off’ so am reluctant to phone again . I want to return and restart my buisness’s I had, re-join the Ginko Tech group and continue doing free builds for charity’s and Non-Profits as I always did before.

    Non of the above is Bull.

    Thanks

    Kevin Lynas
    aka Kornation Bommerang
    aged 24 and counting
    E-mail kevinlynas20@hotmail.com
    (this is not my proper email address anymore but its incase someone else here wants to send spam)

    -=-=-=-=-=-

    Sorry for that – i can provide my details aswell to verify i am 23 and his brother.

  83. U M says:

    @78 but you risk having your password stolen if the UI hacked. This is not a safe thing to do.

  84. Wayfinder Wishbringer says:

    @Daedelus “Odd-sized textures” are converted to the lowest-next “proper” value anyway. A 137 x 429 texture will be uploaded as 128 x 256. 511 x 513 will be uploaded as 256 x 512.”

    Ah, I wasn’t aware of that. So that means they fixed some lag isses by distorting textures without telling the customers. LOL. Typical. So that still gets back to the original suggestion to set textures to standard sizes… so SL doesn’t distort them on us. 🙂

    Thanks for the additional info.

  85. Wayfinder Wishbringer says:

    I might make a little prediction here. LL has made the software CLIENT available… because it got them some heavy-duty debugging for FREE.

    But I would guess they will NEVER release the server-side software. Why? Well, because it’s probably in dozens of chunks laying all over the place… and also because the moment they do, everyone will start setting up their own SLs and stop messing with LL goofiness (copyright or no… they’ll do it). So no way is LL going to reease the full server-side source.

    Not that someone else isn’t going to eat their lunch anyway. HiPiHi is already out there, and you can bet your boots that there are numerous other serious developers that are either in the middle of or tail-ending their SL-competitive products… because they know LL is doing a lousy job, know they can do it better, and are really eager to grab LL’s market.

    Welcome to REAL LIFE, Linden Lab.

  86. Doris Haller says:

    Now the comments in this blog are million times more valuable than that “Article of the week”.
    They proof that the SL-citizens have more knowledge than the operating company. Shame on you!

    But still that does not solve our problems.. lag is still there until LL solves it.

    At the moment I have high package loss (still, again?) and I get logged off when trying to teleport. Working on objects is meaningless since any change of the object’s content takes minutes of fails totally.

    So it’s once again off to RL because SL is $%&!&, and it’s friday… meaning there is not much hope for the weekend.
    So what’s on tv?

    Oh, U M: Don’t tell me it is working fine for you in japan, please.

  87. Doris Haller says:

    See when I wrote my previous comment? 10:59 am. Now watch this: at 1:48 pm, Data Linden wrote that at 12:45 pm a network issue was solved….

    Network issues
    Friday, November 9th, 2007 at 1:48 PM PST by: Data Linden

    [12:45 p.m. PDT]

    A networking issue between our San Francisco and Dallas colocation facilities caused some regions to be temporarily unreachable. We have resolved the issue, and things should be returning to normal.

    Please accept our apologies for the inconvience that this may have caused you.

  88. sirog fredriksson says:

    realy problems with lag, i have a Nvdia 2mx 400 my setting are standard, and realy im doing very good i think
    i rezz, the textures around me to, nd if i see the textures of friends with so called better graphic gcards im not impressed, so is the problem maby the newer gaphic cards , i crash 1ce a week, then i chooce for it, and im coming from the netherlands

  89. drizzt says:

    I really appreciate Ms. Frizzle’s thoughts; I wish that we had her school’s culture of collegiality in our California junior high school.

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