Second Life Havok4 Beta Preview refresh (2007-10-19)

The Havok4 Public Beta Preview has been refreshed, with another set of issues resolved. Please keep trying new experiments and keep reporting problems as you find them in the public Issue Tracker at

Please report problems found using the following options: 

Project: “2. Second Life Service – SVC”
Issue Type: “Bug”
Component: “Physics”
Affects Versions: “Havok4 Beta”

NOTE: Please clean up your experiments out of courtesy to other beta testers, who do not want to wade through thousands or tens of thousands of items lying around a region that you’ve been experimenting on. If you need help cleaning up an experiment, please IM Sidewinder Linden or email “sidewinder (at)”.

Please consider attending our Havok4 Beta Preview Office Hours to find out what is new on the Beta Preview and to talk directly with us about your findings and experiences.

Although some vehicles that previously had problems will work in this version, we do know that there are still a variety of vehicle-related issues. Your help in letting us know which ones are still having troubles will be very useful to the team.

Resolved Issues:

DEV-448 can set grass physical
DEV-1775 SVC-775: VEHICLE_REFERENCE_FRAME broken on preview
DEV-2573 Object mass updates are a step behind
SL-57425 SVC-771: (Havok4) llSetBuoyancy maxes out at 1.0
SVC-54 llTargetOmega doesn’t update unless object is interacted with by an AV
SVC-727 Objects with llVolumeDetect(TRUE) don’t fall through ground
SVC-745 llGetStatus(STATUS_PHYSICS) does not work in child prims
SVC-753 Het Grid – Attachments, animations/AOs screw up on sim handover between different versions
SVC-763 All scripted physics calls fail a “physics deactivated” avatar

Known Open Issues:

DEV-457/3873 havok4 – llSetPos no longer works on attachments (this affects several vehicles we have tested, resulting in problems with the position of parts of the vehicle when rezzed in-world)
DEV-3882 Hover vehicle does not turn while coasting
DEV-3889 Some content seems to be rotated inappropriately in-world

Best regards,

Sidewinder Linden
Program Manager

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41 Responses to Second Life Havok4 Beta Preview refresh (2007-10-19)

  1. Ryozu Kojima says:

    Good work guys, keep on truckin 😉

  2. U M says:

    Thank you for the update. The more feed back you get the better this client release will be. Its that important for the future.

  3. Lex Neva says:

    What are these DEV- issues you mention? Are those from the internal LL JIRA? If so, I’m curious why you share them with us, since we don’t have access to those issues…

  4. Frans says:

    Nice. Keep up the good work! 🙂

  5. Simman Federal says:

    Awesome, Good Work….Keep it up.

  6. Sidewinder Linden says:


    Yes the DEV issues are internal bug reports. I have included them so that you can see the general nature of all known issues, not just the ones reported by beta testers. My hope is that this will give more transparency and make it easier to evaluate what is fixed and what is known to still be problematic, regardless of the source, throughout the beta process.


  7. AJAX Roar says:

    nice job guys keep up the good work 😀

  8. Fen Meijer says:

    How is the weather? I hear it is good down there. Well anyways i really admire your work and i believe I got in one little fight and my mom got scared And said youre moving with your aunte and uncle in bel-air, so i whistled for a cab and when it came near the license plate said fresh and it had dice in the mirror. Well the havok engine is very advanced, and it seems impossible to crash so far.

  9. Montana Corleone says:

    So is it this, the new search, stuff for the RC, or the rolling restart that has made the performance absolutely apalling, red bar packet loss through the roof all day, weird crashes, tps out of sync eg stream changes two minutes after, or my last crash, where stream and region name changed but not the region for two minutes and no black screen and progress bar?

    If this is the future, keep it: it’s unplayable.

  10. Damen Hax says:

    I noticed several improvements and one new issue.
    -The issue with sim crashing on certain rezzing occasion seems fixed.
    -Things made to stop physical objects seem to work much better.
    -Chopper(s) almost work. (will try changing the way they turn later).
    -Jet appears to fly a little smoother.

    *Riding/flying/moving a linked set made to unlink on command won’t work, only the root prim moves as opposed to entire linked set.

    Looks like a fair bit of progress since the last release, good stuff.

  11. Masuyo Aabye says:

    Reply 9 :
    Start Menu > SecondLife > Uninstall Secondlife.
    Problem solved.
    You don’t like SL? stop using it then, simple. Leave it for us who do still enjoy it.
    to be honest, it’s been perfoming better than it has for months, Give LL a break for once.

  12. Gaius Goodliffe says:

    Wow! Non-physical vehicles are completely busted! :p As #10 noted, the root prim just flies out of the vehicle until link distance limits stop it from moving further away. llSetPos from the root prim doesn’t seem to me moving the whole vehicle, although, oddly enough, it seems to move it somewhat, just not at the same speed as the root prim. Rotating works, sorta, but the object looks like it’s falling apart and coming back together, rather than rotating like a single object.

  13. Pingback: Second Life News for October 20, 2007 « The Grid Live

  14. Digital digital says:

    keep up the great work linden lab!!!

  15. Vincent Nacon says:

    Ehhhh… it’s getting there but not quite yet. 😉

    Keep up the good work!

  16. mimi says:

    OMg im looking forward to havoc4

  17. Vladi Benelli says:

    I hope the 31 prim limit goes away, that would be VERY nice!
    (Torley Linden please read this)

  18. Gearsawe Stonecutter says:

    Still getting horrible performance with this issue.

    It is a little better in some areas much worse in others. Such as ellipsoid spheres. This really need to be checked out.

  19. Aeper jie says:

    Great work LL. its great to see you guys fixing issues.

    I am with Vladi Benelli -17

    And i have seen like only 5 lindens. but the search shows alot more then 5 on Tg. Whats up with that? We need linden Suport

  20. Christi Maeterlinck says:

    er… chaps… look.
    For us simple users of this wonderful world we call SL, suppose you actually TELL US what Havok4 is so that we can see if we want to check it out or not?
    Yes, the world may be split into techies like you and rabbits like the rest of us. But if you _really_ want preview feedback, how about involving us, the eventual end-users?
    Christi, who has been here 2 years so there is method in my madness *grin*

  21. Rex Cronon says:

    Hi Christi,
    Havok4 is a computer program that computes the position of physical objects in SL. It is called a physics engine. It is given the position, size, weight/mass, velocity/speed, of all objects that are not phantom in a simulator. It than computes how gravity affects these objects, and what happens when one or more objects collied with each other. It is trying to replicate how things work in RL(real life). It doesn’t run on your computer, it runs on LL servers. For more info go here:

  22. Kira says:

    I think that you are a little bit fool, login onto the havok didnt works anytime! So that system always want to remember me about my capslock – i didnt use it anytime to type my letters in.

  23. 17 and 19: Havok 1 is not what is limiting the prim count of vehicles, it is the time spent in handing over data between sims when you cross a region border. This is not something Havok 4 will change.

  24. bobbyb30 zohari says:

    @23, if that truly was the case, then LL would simply make such veichles not able to cross sim borders. In reality, it does not want to increase the physical object limit in order to allow older models which have 31 prims to compete.

    Still not bad. At least Havok4 is progressing, but there are way way way way way more bugs that need to be fixed. Almost everything physical doesn’t work. (I hope orbiters don’t get fixed!!!) =)

  25. Jillian Callahan says:

    What happened to the 64 prim limit? Last mention from a Linden I head was that was a keeper, despite the sim handoff time.

  26. Sidewinder Linden says:

    bobbyb30 (@24)
    “if that truly was the case, then LL would simply make such veichles not able to cross sim borders. In reality, it does not want to increase the physical object limit in order to allow older models which have 31 prims to compete.”

    This is an interesting theory, but not correct. Seifert is correct in explaining that we are concerned about increasing the size and complexity of the hand-off between simulators. This was discussed in depth at office hours recently 😉

    Larger, more complex vehicles would take more time to be transitioned between systems, and would increase the number of odd sim crossing dysfunctions that you sometimes see at region boundaries. We are working on a more efficient method for hand-offs between simulators for these sorts of items. The 31 prim limit is purposefully not being increased until we have a more efficient cross-sim hand-off implementation in place. That hand-off enhancement is not part of the Havok4 project, and is slated for development at a later point, so the current limit is being left as-is for now.

    Best regards,


  27. Alexan Rosca says:

    When will Linden Labs finally learn that everyone in the grid is sick and tired of all this work on stability and bug-fixing? They should be committing all their resources to developing shiny new stuff! Unless WindLight, Havok6, Mono and prim-uBrowser interaction are implemented within the next few days then the grid will become nothing but a deserted digital wasteland!

    Seriously though, it’s my understanding that Havok4 will bring improvements to both reliability and efficiency over the current physics engine. From what I’ve seen so far (which is not much, so I may be totally wrong here), “sim-crasher” griefing weapons seem to exploit limitations within the physics engine. Will the move to Havok4 provide greater protection against this sort of thing? Or will it simply be the usual software arms race, similar to the neverending battle between virus writers and AV developers? Is there any likelihood that “sim-crasher” weapons can be stamped out permanently?

  28. Syscurrent Unable says:

    Does anyone of you experience more of these annoying messages “the system is currently unable to process bla bla..” or “money transfer stale” lately?

    I got them every 10 to 20min while my revenues are going down, wonder what that is folks. But it´s totally not amusing

    Anyone the same issues since last week?

  29. Storyof Oh says:

    Transaction history comes and goes as do Group lists, build and texture adjustments are hit and miss, add to that the crashes/white/black outs and the usual lag, tp issues, shoes and hair up bum…unfortunately we rarely see ‘can’t take your tiers’….well its our tears and so glad they are spending time on Havok or should it be havoc which is basically the rest of the grid.

  30. JZ says:

    Windlight! I want my Windlight!!!!

  31. Syscurrent Unable says:

    btw, i didn´t update since the last i had to download.

    and btw too hp is down, at least for me

  32. Tonio Roffo says:

    Yay for Havoc4, may the stability be with us! Now one major annoyance seems to be the 25 group limit. That is simply not of this time anymore.. 🙂

  33. Web Page says:

    Windlight makes gorgeous skies and crummy prim shading. SL’s biggest advantage over the competition imo has always been the top nothch shader implementation. Parcels need a slider for the blending of the two shaders, or at least a switch. with maybe a ten second fade effect so that you won’t see the lights flashing on and off when you travel.

    Havok… I really haven’t spent much time there…. One visit per refresh
    Physical grass? DEV-448 can set grass physical I’m trying to picture what that even means… If havok has grass I’m in luuuuv but I thought that’s a graphics thing. I guess I just have to check it out again!

  34. Moll Dean says:

    Sorry about the off-topic post but I want to know if there are SL users with the same issue than mine. My SL crashes in 10 minutes after login and causing the OS (Windows pro SP2) to crash too.
    I tried SL in another two machines and I got the same issue-
    Please. don’t reply if you are not having this problem.
    About the viewer candidate. I think it need more test to be released. But I am loving how SL has been improved.
    Keep the nice work LL

  35. Moll Dean says:

    I am sorry dear community. The previous post already talked about my issue and I am not alone. lol
    Is there any sl-blog moderator to delete my comments?


  36. Storyof Oh says:

    is anyone finding it almost impossible to retexture? horizontal and vertical work together on one arrow but even typing in values isn’t foolproof as they dont seem to be recognised. Its almost a point and shoot exercise closing edit the minute the effect you want is there and all this with 3 green lights on the lag meter….

  37. Kulalyle Anatine says:

    Can someone tell me why sim owners are reducing a parcel along there sim to 50 prims support so when i fly or drive by i stop and my car or ship is auto returned. I mean come on they may own there sim but its more then 1 sim owner doing this, this is ruining the SL experience for all…

  38. padu says:

    22 de outubro

  39. padu says:

    October 22nd, 2007

  40. padu says:

    Sorry about the off-topic post but I want to know if there are SL users with the same issue than mine. My SL crashes in 10 minutes after login and causing the OS (Windows pro SP2) to crash too.
    I tried SL in another two machines and I got the same issue-
    Please. don’t reply if you are not having this problem.
    About the viewer candidate. I think it need more test to be released. But I am loving how SL has been improved.
    Keep the nice work LL

  41. Hey, I’m not sure is this is an issue, or just hasn’t been added / decisions made yet, but I notice that giant prims on the beta grid change to a normal size prim the moment an llSetPos command is given. My only current product in SL relies on a 40x40x40 sculpted prim that needs to be able to move using llSepPos (because making it physical would clearly be foolish!). Is there any word on giant prims, and what, if any, restrictions may be placed on them due to Havok4? I also noticed that linking an object to a 40x40x40 has a much more restrictive link distance too. I’m very concerned for my product at the moment, as will all my customers be. Any comment / help / contact from a Linden would be most appreciated!

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