New Search Currently Under Development

(UPDATE: more information posted here)

Linden Lab is pleased to announce that we are in the process of extending our inworld search mechanism which should improve the search experience and results for all Second Life Residents! The primary goals of this project are to both make it easier to find places to go inworld and to make it simpler to find objects to purchase.

Before this project launches, we’d like to explain some of the changes to you and hopefully get some feedback before it moves into production. With today’s 1.18.4 release candidate (download 1.18.4 or read the blog announcement), we will be incorporating a new check box option to allow Second Life Residents to opt-into the new Search. For the initial population of the search, we’ve made some assumptions for the default settings of each type of result (explained below). Also, read about the planned future of search in Second Life here. You will have time to change all of your default settings before the actual launch of the new Search, which we’re hoping will happen in the next few months, please watch this blog for updates! We wanted to give you several weeks to prepare and choose your settings before the change.

If you’re curious about the Release Candidate process, please read more about it.

Technical Details
The biggest change that you’ll notice when the new Search launches is that the “Search All” dialog box has been dramatically changed and improved (see images below). We have built a system that creates ordinary HTML web pages out of data from the Second Life system. We upload these web pages to an ordinary web server. We have purchased Google Search Appliances to perform the indexing and the new search results. These servers are an off-the-shelf product which Google makes available for purchase by an individual or organization, and the servers and data are hosted at Linden’s co-location facilities. We have not entered into any working partnership with Google.

What’s Included in Search?
Land parcels, Residents profile, Groups, Second Life wiki articles, Events, and some individual Objects present on public parcels are all included in the search results. Keep reading for more information on what’s included.

New Search UI

New Search UI (click for larger image)

How is the Order for Search Results Determined?
In the new All Search, results are returned by “relevance“, based on how well the page matches the query, how close the multiple words are together, and how many inbound links there are to the page. Inbound links are created by references in top picks, classifieds, landmarks, parcels and groups. While you can create links to these pages from web sites outside Second Life, those in-bound links are not used for relevance. For now we are not allowing HTML in profiles, land descriptions, etc., so attempting to create links in the description text will not work.

Maturity and the New Search
If your parcel has “Mature Content” checked, it will be flagged as such in the search results.

Privacy and the New Search
You have the ability to choose what is included in the new search. For the initial population of the search, we’ve made some assumptions for the default settings of each type of result (explained below). You will be able to change the default after it has been set (when we launch the new Search), although it may between 1-3 days for changes to be reflected in the search results. Due to the nature of search indexing, we are not able to make any guarantees about when any changes will appear.

Be aware that the new search results will be available to the public, once it’s released, anyone with a web browser can view them from the Second Life website. The search results may also be picked up by other external search engines such as Yahoo and Google, although we are not explicitly asking search engines to crawl them at this time. It’s important to remember that this information is not tied to your real life identity and is the same information that anybody could see with a free Second Life account.

Keep reading for information on the Default settings, more images of the new search and the Search FAQ

(Information on Default Settings)

Land Parcels
Land parcels will default to “not being searched”, just as it does now. All land parcels currently included in the “Places” search will be included. In order to be included in the Search results, you will need to check the “Show in Search > Places” checkbox in the “About Land” panel, under the “Options” tab. (Please note: The L$30 charge per week to be included in search is still in place for land parcels.)

Groups
Previously there were two check boxes in regards to groups and privacy – “Publish listing on the web” and “Show in groups list”. This is being simplified to include one box in the group settings called “Show in Search” which will make the group public. If a group was previously set to “Show in groups list” it will be included by default in the new search. The “Publish listing on the web” checkbox will be deprecated and will not be used to determine inclusion in the new search.

Resident Profiles
The new search will allow people to search profiles for information about particular Residents. All profiles are included by default, but if you want to only have a limited profile available, simply uncheck the box next to “Show in Search”. The limited profile includes your avatar’s name, born on date and account type.

If you include your complete profile in the search, others will be able to search the things you type into your “About” box in your “2nd Life” Tab, your favorite places from your “Picks” Tab and your profile picture! “1st Life” and groups membership are not listed.

Objects
Currently it is not possible to search for individual objects via the Second Life Search, but with the new version of Search, objects will be searchable! We’ve created a new “Show in Search” checkbox (see image below) which allows objects to be found via the Search All.

For the initial launch of Search, any parcels set to “Show in Search” with objects marked as “for sale” will be defaulted to their “Show in Search” checkbox on and will be listed in Search. Any objects on parcels set to which are not set for sale will default to having the “Show in Search” checkbox not selected. If your parcel is set to not show in Search, your objects will not be listed by default, regardless of their settings.

We’re also going to allow not-for-sale objects to be included in search results, but you will need to explicitly check the “Show in Search” box.

Object Permissions Box

Object Permissions Box (click for larger image)

Events
All events will be included in the new search. You will also be able to search on any information within the event details.

What Happens to Classifieds?
We are adding new functionality that displays related Classified results alongside the other results in the Search All panel. This will hopefully result in larger visibility for Classified results. Also, when you first open the Search All panel, the top eight classified ads will highlighted. Classifieds are still available both in the Search All results and in their own tab in the Search.

Search results

New Search Results (click for larger image)

To be clear, the list of classifieds in the right column of the All tab is exactly the same list that would be generated if you typed the same words into the existing Classifieds tab (see image above). This may change in the future as we work to improve the inworld advertising experience, watch for more information on that in the future!

Search FAQ
Have more questions? Please check out the complete Search FAQ in the Second Life Knowledge Base. We’ve included the first few questions below:

1. Why now? What are you announcing?
We’re about to roll out improvements to inworld searches for Second Life: You’ll be able to search more and get better results. This is the first phase of the rollout, which involves identifying the items you want included in searches.

2. What is your timeline?
This is the release candidate that introduces the mechanism for including or excluding items from searches. After it’s finalized, it’ll go into an official release. The next release candidate will introduce the actual improved search functionality; it’ll have a relatively brief lifespan before going into an official release.

3. How will my search experience change?
When we’re done with the rollout, there’ll be a new All tab in the Search window. Using this tab, it’ll be easier to find relevant results when you’re searching for land parcels, Resident profiles, groups, events, and individual objects marked for inclusion that are present on public parcels.

… continue reading the Search FAQ!

About Jeska Linden

Product Manager, Instigator
This entry was posted in New Releases. Bookmark the permalink.

149 Responses to New Search Currently Under Development

  1. Pingback: New Viewer: 1.18.4 Release Candidate Available Today! « Official Linden Blog

  2. cambo52s Speculaas says:

    This actually looks pretty cool, been wanting a new, more effective Search for a while now. Keep it up!

  3. Creem says:

    Wow, relevance-based search result ranking – could this be the end of camping?

    Also I’m wondering what type of mechanisms will be possible to allow scripted vendors to show up in search results (where you “Pay..” the object to have it deliver the product to you, as opposed to buying the object directly). These types of scripted vendors are useful when you want to divvy up the sales revenue between multiple people.

  4. Darien Caldwell says:

    From the information presented, It looks pretty good. I look forward to trying it. 🙂

  5. Argent Stonecutter says:

    Mixed feelings about this. I like the improved search capability, but I’m not sure I want stuff in Second Life suddenly showing up in Google when Google gets around to indexing the web version of the search page (and, yes, results from other search engines do often end up showing up in Google).

  6. Simba Fuhr says:

    *sighs*
    good idea lindens, but whats with the asset servers and the lags ?
    Will this make more problems ?

  7. Kaya says:

    Fabulous!! Can’t wait… This is one of the things I have been hoping for! 🙂

  8. Timeless Prototype says:

    [rubber stamp]This product and/or service has the official approval of Timeless Prototype.[/rubber stamp]

  9. Twisted Surface says:

    This looks pretty interested… slightly intimidated…however I think it may work well. I look forward to it 🙂

  10. Those are cool looking Search Results pages. And Hooray for Google software 😀 It’s good to have an engine which is widely known, people then know better how to properly search and what to expect. 🙂

  11. Adam Spark says:

    Object search? Oh, this is huge. This is really, really huge. Can we buy via search, or at least TP directly to the object? If not, well at least we will know the stuff we want is somewhere in a location now. Good start.

    Why does it matter if stuff ends up in Google? Really don’t get that complaint.

    The point to search is getting people to find your stuff. More people will if its not limited to in-world search. Having those not yet on SL able to see more of what SL has to offer is a wonderful thing.

  12. Doofus Mayo says:

    Sounds cool, but like Creem, wondering if it will be possible to get objects from scripted vendors to show up in searches. Quite a large proportion of the stuff for sale in SL comes from this type of vendor rather than in boxes on a shelf. I sell skins and have far too many to be able to devote a prim for each and make it “buy”able.
    Still, nice that the search system is getting a much needed overhaul.
    Thanks.

  13. Seph Swain says:

    Wow.

  14. bobbyb30 zohari says:

    Maybe LL is finally starting to listen to its residents!=D

    I look foward to seeing improved search results, especially with user profiles.

    But what about asset servers and the lag?

    And how many more problems will this “update” create?(Perhaps, it may not be worth it at all…)

  15. Ceera Murakami says:

    Most of this looks pretty good. I am glad to see improvements coming.

    *** BUT ***

    You say: “For the initial launch of Search, any parcels set to “Show in Search” with objects marked as “for sale” will be defaulted to their “Show in Search” checkbox on and will be listed in Search. Any objects on parcels set to which are not set for sale will default to having the “Show in Search” checkbox not selected.”

    PLEASE, NO!

    Problem here. There are innumerable items in-world that are no-mod for the current owner, and which have the “for sale” check box irrevocably checked. It is impossible to un-check that box, or to change the price, and many owners of these items don’t even know that the item is set that way. (One way this happened was when a “no mod for next owner” item is set for sale in-world.)

    So if you default to making the new “show in search” checkbox active for such objects, that forces the item owner either to never allow their land to be visible in search, or to delete any such items from their land, or to allow that item, which they are NOT selling, to act as a beacon for any stranger that finds it in search. And they CAN’T opt out later, because they can’t change the check box settings on a no-mod item!

    When the ESC “Sheep Bot” covertly did a similar grid-wide listing of all prims marked “For Sale”, it listed a lamp in my bedroom. I wasn’t selling that lamp. I cartainly didn’t want strangers walking into my bedroom to buy that lamp. But their web-based listing gave everyone in SL who searched for an inexpensive lamp a teleport link to my bedroom!

    PLEASE DEFAULT TO DO NOT LIST!

    There is a hude difference between listing what is in someone’s store on the ground, and listing a prototype that is in their skybox workshop in the same parcel, or in their bedroom.

  16. Shouri Gisaku says:

    Will the new object search feature be capable of indexing items for sale through vendors as well? A large number of stores sell through vendors instead of indivdual boxes, and a system that can show individual items sold through vendors would be a big step forward.

    However, I’m concerned about whether or not the object search feature will create lag. If SL’s search engine finds a large number of relevant objects on a parcel, will it create lag for the parcel?

    More clarification would be very helpful, but I’m looking forward to this. 🙂

  17. Buster McNutt says:

    nice work boys, take the weekend off

  18. Ryozu Kojima says:

    Nice, I had a feeling google would be involved.

    @#6:
    This will actuall probably help the asset servers and back end, having search be indexed by separate search appliances.

  19. WarKirby says:

    What’s to stop people creating a lot of objects and listing them in search to game the system? Creating objects with generic names like avatar, skin, etc. To grab the most trafficked search terms.

  20. Web Page says:

    All I see is a checkbox on objects. Should I see a checkbox in search?

    I’d like to see this able to search my inventory too. Half the time I wind up buying something I already have.

  21. Harper Ganesvoort says:

    This will be a Good Thing, especially if the current “OR”-only search is changed to include AND ability. Currently, just to try and be clear, it’s not an exclusive-OR, but only searching x OR y. You can’t force Search to look for entries that have both terms (an AND search). Adding AND ability will increase utility manyfold.

  22. Isablan Neva says:

    THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!

    *weeps tears of joy*

  23. Kira says:

    Confusing , intimidating, but looks cool will have to read this a few more times to understand some things , such as relevance. It apears that the more external links you have to your shop the more relvance you have? how will this affect us mom and pops stores?

    But all in all looks awsome.

  24. Web Page says:

    By the way, wouldn’t it make more sense to have checkboxes across the top for filters, instead of multiple tabs? Those tabs have always irked me.

  25. Pingback: OnRez Blog » Blog Archive » Linden Lab announces new search

  26. Neural says:

    The new search feature sound good. Will help things a lot, but…

    Profile have pretty much always been visible, so they are not part of this issue, however I find it *very* concerning that Linden Lab has suddenly deemed themselves judge over what information about it’s users is provided publicly.

    “For the initial population of the search, we’ve made some assumptions for the default settings of each type of result (explained below).”

    A persons SL profile, again, is not a problem with this, as it is 100% exposed already, but what happens when LL decides to sell e-mail addresses to spam-using companies?
    Will we get a message saying “Oh by the way, we’re selling e-mails now. We’ve *assumed* that you want yours available so you can receive e-mail offers from companies that Linden Lab approves of. But if you don’t want it sold, you can opt. out by using a check box which will take between 1 and 3 days time to take effect (during which time we will be selling it to who-ever wants it)”?

  27. Jamie David says:

    I missed it somewhere. Um where are the pretty picts? Looking in search under all and it looks just as it was before.

  28. Giddyup! We’ve been waiting for this for a while. Thanks!

  29. Pointside Sunbelter says:

    THANK YOU!!!
    Anything is an improvement over the current search

  30. Berry Steinhoff says:

    Installed Second Life 1.18.4 (0) Oct 18 2007 14:36:02 (Second Life Release Candidate) but I do not see improved Search, just old default Search GUI.

    Am I missing something?

  31. KittyCat Rosebud says:

    I would just like it clarified.

    Is there now another thing that has a 30L weekly fee?

    Or is it still only Places and then you control on Classified?

  32. Gaius Goodliffe says:

    @21: If I understand this correctly, the current “OR” search isn’t being “changed”, it’s being deep-sixed in favor of the new search (which I assume works like you say, since it’s a Google search appliance, and that’s how Google searches work, or Googlewhacking would be impossible).

  33. Jessica Veressi says:

    Very interesting and appears to be a nice move. I like that we are apparently being given time to make the transistion instead of the introducton of a new search and the killoff of the old in a day. Giving us a chance to learn it before it is rolled out should help businesses not take a huge hit on traffic and customers when the old search disapears. I am very curious to see it in action. And if it does get crawled by google it will bring new people to SL as they start seeing results from there on everyday search terms I think.

  34. Winter Ventura says:

    And what of traffic?

  35. Meade Paravane says:

    Looks promising, Jeska!!!

    Does this mean I can now include “NOT camp” when searching places??

  36. bobbyb30 zohari says:

    For your picture, “include mature content” is not checked yet in the classifieds it says…

    XXX Xtra large mall

  37. Winter Ventura says:

    fear the first time someone searches for “Object”

  38. gaoniangao says:

    This is by far the best news for SL’s long-term prospects in many months. *simply elated*

  39. Dirk Felix says:

    Maybe you should start with a Phd in Infomration Architecture first 😉

  40. Tony says:

    All profiles should be off by default.

    The rest sounds good.

  41. Oryx Tempel says:

    Way cool! Can’t wait!

  42. Gaius Goodliffe says:

    @15: I just checked with a few no-mod objects I have, and you can easily check and uncheck the “For Sale” button. Are you sure you’re the owner of the lamp in question?

  43. Tony says:

    “We have not entered into any working partnership with Google.”

    Why not? They do search better than all the rest.

  44. Cindy Claveau says:

    Fantastic – this will be VERY helpful!

  45. Digital Digital says:

    Looks cool can’t wait for the changes 🙂

  46. Ceera Murakami says:

    Can we please add one more qualifier to the following assumption?

    “For the initial launch of Search, any parcels set to “Show in Search” with objects marked as “for sale” will be defaulted to their “Show in Search” checkbox on and will be listed in Search. Any objects on parcels set to which are not set for sale will default to having the “Show in Search” checkbox not selected.”

    Please add: “Items that are no-mod for the current owner will will default to having the “Show in Search” checkbox NOT selected, even if they are checked as ‘for sale’.”

    That will prevent LL from turning no-mod items into a beacon that can’t be turned off, except by deleting the item.

  47. Calveen Kline says:

    This would be even better if it included the removal of the despicable traffic number. Whatever happened to that project anyways?

  48. Mr. Teste says:

    god help us

  49. Berry Steinhoff says:

    Where is new Search feature, because on my version of Second Life 1.18.4 (0) Oct 18 2007 14:36:02 (Second Life Release Candidate) it’s not located CTL F.

    I’ve just uninstalled Second Life, rebooted, deleted folder, rebooted. Downloaded new version from “optional downloads” page, fired up, reset my preferences and still I see old GUI.

    Can someone direct me to where in this release the new Search feature can be found. Thank you. 🙂

  50. well, the “search all” option was nearby useless, given the number of results, and also because many added typographic signs such as spaces or hyphen to appear in the first position.

    A good idea would be, when displaying in alphabetic order, to strip off such signs, so that results are really in alphabetic order. But if LL don’t do that, we anyway continue as before: skip all those results begining by irrelevant typographic signs and look at the real stuff after 😀

    (by the way, some groups have good reasons to use such typographic signs, so the best is that the search just ignore those signs. )

  51. Walker Moore says:

    Quote: “We have purchased Google Search Appliances to perform the indexing and the new search results.”

    For the first time in a long time, I think I love you.

    Fantastic news. TYVM. =)

  52. Jeska Linden says:

    @ Ceera good comments, I’ll bring your feedback to our search design team. Be aware that if you do not want ‘for sale’ objects listed by default in the search, you have the option of making your parcel not be searchable.

  53. Walker Moore says:

    Berry, the article indicates that the new search feature hasnt’ been launched yet.

  54. Ceera Murakami says:

    RE: Gaius Goodliffe

    I just did a test. Logged on with two accounts that do not have mod rights for each other. Avatar A rezzed a prim, set it for sale, sell copy, with next-owner perms of (no copy/no mod/yes transfer). Took prim into inventory, and gave it to Avatar B. Avatar B rezzed the prim. It is still set for sale, the check box is greyed out, and Avatar B can’t uncheck it.

  55. Berry Steinhoff says:

    @53.

    DOH!

  56. Honey says:

    I really dislike the idea of someone being able to search objects that I may not wan them to have…or even know about!

  57. Walker Moore says:

    Sorry Berry. xD

    Feature request: the ability to delete blog comments plz. =D

  58. Brett Finsbury says:

    Wow looks great. Would like land for sale in private estates placed in their own search catagory. Cant wait to give it a try 🙂

  59. Hitman Howley says:

    Wow you read my mind about a new search! I have been thinking about an object search for a while and its great that its been placed into second life itself! Hurray for the new search!

  60. Ceera Murakami says:

    … Of course, no sooner did I hit Return to send that test info to the Blog, then the checkbox on the other computer ceased being greyed out for Avatar B. *sigh* I’ll have my Partner check her incense burner. I know it is checked as ‘for sale’ now, and that I can’t change that, even though I have mod rights on her things. Last time we tried, she couldn’t change it either.

  61. Pingback: SecondLife: Novo cliente Linux 1.8.4

  62. Jeska Linden says:

    @ Shouri – in reply to your comment about lag, the new search should actually help relieve load on the central databases, as it has distributed one of the critical loads (search) to an alternate system.

    @ Web – In addition to the new checkbox in the edit object menu, there are also new checkboxes in your profile, in the About Land dialog, and in the Groups tab.

  63. Jeska Linden says:

    @ Neural
    Thanks for your comments, while we did make assumptions for auto-population for the initial release of the new search, we’re providing amble time for everyone to adjust these default settings to control the level of inclusion you’d like to have.

    At Linden Lab, we hold ourselves to a very strong privacy policy (available here: http://secondlife.com/corporate/privacy.php) and take the privacy of our Residents very seriously.

  64. Ann Otoole says:

    Good job. This is a major step forward I suggested long ago in blogs. Thought I put it in jira but can’t see the entry. Oh well. It is, after all, a very logical enterprise system architecture move so it is good to see right thinking going on at LL. Glad to see the seed of thought may have stuck in the back of a mind somewhere and it made it to the surface at last.

  65. Serena Harlow says:

    This is troubling. The default will include all profiles in search, so if you’re not saavy enough to change the settings, everyone on SL and the net will be able to target residents for advertising? Won’t that open SL residents up to a ton of spamming? I can just see it now, 20,000 requests to join groups, patronize clubs, shop at stores, go to websites. Ugh. Not sure this is a good idea. Yes, search needs to be upgraded, but it shouldn’t compromise privacy.

  66. Starfire Desade says:

    The new search should do away with traffic in search, right?… will it do away with traffic counts all together?

  67. Weedy says:

    The roof leaks, the windows are broken and the foundation is rotten.

    Paint the fence and plant flowers…. that’ll fix everything.

  68. Paulo Dielli says:

    1) What will happen with land (shop) names in All search? Now they are listed on top. Will land names be cluttered by the thousands of items for sale that show up in the same All list? Or will land names remain on top?

    2) What will prevent people from making many single prim plywood boxes with all kinds of keywords in order to get high in search?

  69. Jeska Linden says:

    @ Winter and Starfire:
    High traffic somewhat increases the relevance of search results, because we provide inbound links from traffic pages with top-10, top-20, top-1000, etc. places. The place listings do not sort strictly by traffic, however. It’s only one of many factors considered by the search appliance.

    Read more in the Search FAQ https://secondlife.com/community/support.php?questionID=4722

  70. Sayuuri Watanabe says:

    It looks awesome! Just one question when do you think it’ll be up? I love the look of it and I think it’ll make my SL experiences more better!

  71. Selador Cellardoor says:

    Well, I have been in Second Life for four years now, and this is the first time a new version has caused me to crash every time.

    I get the progress bar, everything seems to be going ok, then as soon as I get to the Logging In stage I instantly crash to desktop.

    The regular version of Second Life is fine, but this one crashes every time I try to get in – it’s been about six attempts so far.

  72. Al Supercharge says:

    Hoping the posting in EVENTS of continuously-showing videos and other “features” that are NOT Events – will be curtailed ( and more stringently monitored and removed).

  73. Rachel Darling says:

    I must commend you, Lindens, on your “just in time” strategy in developing a new search utility…since it seems that as of today, the OLD SEARCH isn’t working. If you’re interested, results are incomplete, and randomly, listings that should show up are not doing so. But wait…could there be a relationship between the NEW beta search being introduced and the OLD search suddenly breaking?

    Oh, well, at least it should be easy to track down, since yesterday’s release didn’t introduce any new functionality other than metrics info. Whew!

  74. Wuvme Karuna says:

    finally! i hated typing someone’s name and it appears 100 unwanted search in the “all tab”!

  75. Ann Otoole says:

    hmmm. the new release candidate talks of this new search yet i cannot find any way to opt in to the new search system. did i miss something?

    I installed Second_Life_1-18-4-0_ReleaseCandidate_Setup.exe yet i can find no option to opt in to the new search.

  76. Starfire Desade says:

    Looks like camping is here to stay…

  77. Ann Otoole says:

    camping traffic needs to go. they need to detect non LL published bot clients and exclude them from traffic counts. I,e,; if your gonna keep this lame bogus traffic measure, which is a total waste of time and system resources, then you need to somehow detect there is actually a human interacting with the application. There are people running hundreds of non-graphic text clients to pad traffic. so it is totally bogus and is wasting our time and is so unfair to legitimate sl residents that it is actually rather unintelligent to even consider leaving traffic counting turned on and you should zero all traffic values on parcels. be intelligent and professional about this traffic debacle and get rid of it completely. you cannot prove whether or not thats a real person on a parcel so it is useless. gratz to whoever wrote it and al and yada yada but its time for traffic to go bye bye. and i would love to opt in to the new search but apparently you forgot to include the opt in pref in preferences in the new rc.

  78. Vakis Oranos says:

    This is from the Search FAQ about the Profiles Search:

    “All profiles are included by default, but if you want to only have a limited profile available, simply uncheck the box next to “Show in Search”.

    The opposite is true with v1.18.4. My profile has the “Show in Search” box unchecked by default (which is way to go, since the profile search has to be an opt-in and not opt-out with the new search)

  79. Klaatu Congrejo says:

    Will the new Resident Profiles ab show whether or not a person has been age-verified? And if a person has NOT, does it indicate to people doing business transactions that such a person is not to be trusted (as indicated by Robin Linden in the ‘ID Verification’ blog of 29Aug07)?
    This could turn out to be quite an alienating feature for some people who do not want to be forced to divulg their personal ID details to an unknown third party company!

  80. Jeska Linden says:

    @ Ann
    Sorry for any confusion, as the post above explains, 1.18.4 contains new UI options (checkboxes) in preparation for the new search – the new search has not yet been released.

    This should allow you ample time to set up your default settings before the actual launch of the new Search, which we’re hoping to launch over the course of the next few months!

  81. Ann Otoole says:

    ty Jeska. As you may surmise some of us are very excited about this and are chomping at the bit to get going and help test to get it into production as quickly as possible. 🙂

  82. Ann Otoole says:

    so will you be setting the search flag for objects set for sale in the future? because they are all turned off right now. do we need to go flag thousands of for sale prims to be included in search or will you do this automatically?

  83. mimi says:

    I just read on the privacy policy

    “In addition, if Linden Lab should ever file for bankruptcy or merge with another company, we may sell the information you provide to us on this site to a third party or share your personal information with any company with whom we merge.”

    omg.. !

  84. Rob A says:

    Perhaps you aren’t hearing your screaming customers: STOP CHANGING THINGS THAT ALREADY WORK! Fix the lag, fix the network issues, fix the alt issues, and THEN if you’re still up to it you should re-do the freakin’ search. This is USELESS anyhow if you can’t move around or cross from one sim to another.

  85. Cocoanut Koala says:

    Agree to the suggestion to default to “do not list” on items.

    I’d much rather have to go around and check all those boxes on on my items than to have people have to suffer from others flying into their private bedrooms to look at a lamp again.

    coco

  86. mimi says:

    yes many people do not disable ‘for sale’ on their objects

    recently a friend of mine bought several lamps of the stage of a karaoke performance in Amsterdam because he forgot to turn them off.. it was just a joke, but it shows what can happen… it can become a big mess if people all of a sudden lose objecst because they forgot to disable objects beeing for sale.

  87. Seann Sands says:

    Question: In order to have for sale items on your land show up on search…do you need to have your Land setting on “show is search”…hence paying the 30/week fee? Am I misunderstanding this? Or is this a forced fee? Thanks.

  88. Ann Otoole says:

    object search indexing question: will object descriptions be indexed? If so its time to start using that field for actual descriptions. There is an implication. Some systems use the description field for metadata/parameters. I recommend you add a metadata field for this type data so systems can use it instead of the description field. Objects sold by script will have to be manually set to be searched. I.e.; objects sold with the firstmeta card script. by default firstmeta scripted prims will be excluded from searches. and then those prims use the description field for the price which limits the characters available for search indexing.

    trade-off city lol.

  89. anon says:

    Rob A: Perhaps reading the rest of the comments before going off on LL might be a good idea, as its already been mentioned this will HELP with lag, which pretty much renders all of your ill informed rant there useless.

  90. Mel says:

    This definitely has it merits.. but I guess I am not ready for profiles to go on the web. You need profiles sometimes to get information but sometimes we use them to get to know people.. It is fun stuff… personal stuff.. poetry. One of the reasons that SL has been so attractive to people is that there is a certain anonymity. How do I let people search my “professional” self in SL and still get to post things that allow us to get to know each other without it being on the web.

    Jeska.. this has the potential to destroy SL as we know it. And trust does not come from the willingness to show your RL ID.. it comes from little things like the icebreakers built into profiles.

    It will reduce “me” to what I want people to search on… and that is sad.

    There is life in SL beyond the commercial.

  91. Alicia Sautereau says:

    the end of camping finally near?!?!?! =]

    just test, test and tripple test befor going 100% life 🙂

  92. Garmin Kawaguichi says:

    The Show in Search box of an object is allowed for a non oowner of the object even though the other boxes are grayed.

  93. Magrell Wise says:

    DEA Agents reading a Google search listing…

    DEA AGENT 1: What’s this? A bale of marijuana for 30L$ 301 Dollars!!
    DEA AGENT 2: Yeah, I have a store here that’s selling marijuana plants!
    DEA AGENT 1: We must find these guys!
    DEA AGENT 3: Hey, hold on, that’s over on Second Life!
    DEA AGENT 2: Is that in America?
    DEA AGENTS: LET’S BUST THEM!
    LINDEN LAB:[blog] We are now making Drug Related Items banned.

  94. anon says:

    Mel: I honestly dont see what your problem is,

    “The search results may also be picked up by other external search engines such as Yahoo and Google, although we are not explicitly asking search engines to crawl them at this time. It’s important to remember that this information is not tied to your real life identity and is the same information that anybody could see with a free Second Life account.”

    So unless you make a habit of telling your real life associates your Secondlife name, or you’ve used your real name as your Secondlife name, this shouldn’t have any impact on you.

  95. Chaz Longstaff says:

    Hallelujah, about time!

  96. Prospero Lane says:

    Why is making more things more public an improvement?

    And does Linden Labs ever release anything that is not “dramatic” or “cool?” Next time, please make the language less turgid and more informative.

  97. anon says:

    Prospero Lane: If you don’t want your stuff public, all it takes is a few clicks to fix remedy that.

    Also, to everyone freaking out about people being getting Teleports to your private areas through the search:

    “If your parcel is set to not show in Search, your objects will not be listed by default, regardless of their settings.”

    If you have your parcel set to show up in search, then people will already HAVE a way to get there.

  98. Johan Durant says:

    @3: They explain at the bottom of the Objects search section that you can check the box for Show in Search for any object, not just For Sale objects.

  99. Blastar Seymour says:

    Before you do something more try to fix the current bugs..
    I have a Quad Core CPU and ATI2900XT on Vista Ultimate.
    Its the Latest ans the Best Technology availabkle on the Market and my SL Client crashes all the time and I cant see Sculptured object at all.

    NEXT TIME TRY TO FIX the VISTA + ATI Problem first and then do what you want to because many residenses are still unhappy.

    I prefer something more stable than new.

  100. alf lednev says:

    Thankyou Jeska, finally a Linden who will join in a debate and not merely issue a “motherhood press release” or ignore concerns. Hopefully this will set a benchmark for all “lil lindens” for the future.

    A new search facility is long overdue and I hope it goes well.
    One concern I have on Point 52

    Jeska said “Be aware that if you do not want ‘for sale’ objects listed by default in the search, you have the option of making your parcel not be searchable.”

    How does this address the bulk of users who don’t own land, who rent or simply move about SL? Especially the renters? THe “solution” appears to assume ownership of land. Can it be clarifed?

  101. Wuvme Karuna says:

    ** BUG **

    Im having issues with the candidate viewer!

    – When im in the texture tab, under the “Vertical” repeats per face
    it wont let me move the arrows up or down, i can manually put the numbers in, but it wont let me use the arrow and it does nothing!

    Please fix this! thanks!

  102. Becky Pippen says:

    @98 anon — you miss the point. We very definitely want people to find their way to our parcel, and we’ve set the parcel’s default landing point to where we would like visitors to arrive. But I don’t want LL to distribute landmarks directly into my private bedroom just because I didn’t find every last little object there with a checkbox to uncheck.

  103. Weedy says:

    Lovely…. when people interchange radios etc by selling them for 0 to their landlord for deeding, the bots will steal them.

    I gues I better be prepared to hand out free radios to yet a whole new group of resident victims.

  104. Jebediah Spatula says:

    While it looks promising, I do have a few concerns. Will I need to create a group for my store and make nearly everything in my profile widely available just to appear higher in search? I can see where #15 is coming from. I’ll delete all items in my skybox marked “for sale” and no-mod. Don’t need customers visiting my bedroom.

    What about vendors such as JEVN & Hippo. If a store uses such vendors exclusively, will that hurt their search results?

    I’m still on the fence about it, but if in a search for “candles” it will help my store that sells candles appear higher in the 100 furniture stores that just happen to sell candles, it’s all good. 🙂

  105. Tony says:

    Jeska it’s plain rude to involve my AV in search by default. I don;t want my AV in search by default, I don’t want RL ads spamming me. Please please please let this by my decision.

    I’m ID verified, I don’t want ads spamming me. Currently I have to download the RC client to opt out of this, it should be an opt in. It’s just plain rude you assume I want to be involved.

  106. Garmin Kawaguichi says:

    And don’t forget to report the Show in Search box in the object properties!!

  107. Stick says:

    SL is going dolally again
    ppl floating in air
    trying to fly a balloon cant go in any direction other round and round
    what the betting SL goes down today?

  108. Stick says:

    oo did i forget Lag spikes

  109. McPhenius Swain says:

    Looks very promising!

  110. Beast Mauvaise says:

    I’m looking forward to trying it out; SL’s growth has made the old Search next to useless for anyone trying to find something quickly and/or easily

  111. Phil Deakins says:

    >> “The search results may also be picked up by other external search engines such as Yahoo and Google, although we are not explicitly asking search engines to crawl them at this time.”

    Search engines neither want people to ask, nor wait for people to ask, and they *will* crawl them if you don’t prevent it. If you don’t want the engines to crawl the pages, you can stop them with the site’s robots.txt file. Not preventing them is explicitly and intentionally allowing the engines to crawl them = inviting them to crawl the pages.

  112. Ziggy March says:

    yay they are listening yay hooraa…

  113. Mitsuyasi Tiger says:

    huh?
    sim crashes every 15 minutes like clock work – av breaks on TP and I lose alot of no copy objects…

    Oh New search – cool all problems are solved while I look at the shiney ^_^

    *twirls a finger* At least they are “Fixing” something.. er ya ^^;

  114. Domino Marama says:

    Hey if our object / land listings get traffic from google, will we get the referral bonus if the vistor signs up for Second Life?

  115. Votslav Hax says:

    love the changes in search.. any chance of ever changing the way that chat and inventory windows appear on the screen.. presently if you have both of these open they block out nearly30% of the viewing screen..chat especially..a new smaller transparent chat window would be nice…

  116. Cammi Hudson says:

    what I would like to see in search is multiple words such as “CN Tower” actually gets back places that are selling a copy of this build or have this build on their keywords beacuse right now if you use multiple words in search you get mainly groups or the odd result based on “tower” which may not be wanted. Many times you have to goto one word search and filter through the hundreds of results many of which have that word in the keywords and have no relevance such as sex.shape,skin etc dealers

  117. Unlikely the lindens will take all steps necessary to kill of campers. Let’s be real: at any given time campers, probably, account for 40% of concurrent log-ins. Those numbers give the Lindens and inlfated sense of presence to presense.

  118. Maklin Deckard says:

    Works fine the way it is. This is NOTHING more than a way to hide traffic numbers, so bigtime corporations aren’t embarrassed to have dwell lower than tiny stores. This way, when GM, CBS, or their representatives like ESC slip the lindens a few bucks to make them lis higher than they shoud, we won’t have traffic numbers to call them on the sellout.

    Once this hits, I look forward to the top 10 all being corporate sites within the first six months, followed by LL’s pet developers ingame businesse, then the rest of us who had a chance of being rated higher in the current system.

    Just another sellout that removes transparency.

  119. Diomedes Nikolaidis says:

    Like the direction except for one thing: the ability to search from outside SL. No! No! No!

  120. Blinders Off says:

    Sounds interesting. May I make one suggestion. How about using standard search parameters rather than that arbitrary, knee-jerk “must enter at least 3 characters” concept? I don’t know who came up with that, but he must have been taking bad drugs at the time. 😉

  121. Andromeda Quonset says:

    I think the residents should have been consulted before making the purchase of software from Google. After reading the above blog comments, I find I have too many misgivings about the new search to even begin listing them in a blog comment. I urge LL to return the software to Google, get a refund, and find some other solution. I don’t want anything I authorize for in-world searching to be shared off-world.

    About electric sheep searches: I can’t seem to keep them off my sim! I try to quietly script, and every 10 minutes a new bot homes-in on my current work area and interrupts.

  122. Mel says:

    Thanks for answering Jeska.

    Anon.. that is not what I was talking about.. the RL/SL connection.
    What I was talking about was the private fun things people put into profiles that make them unique and personable. Lets say someone says they are not in SL for sex.. someone in google searches SL,sex…poor soul gets attention for things not wished. Maybe that is a stretch but I am trying to get at a concept here.

    I am VERY disappointed that traffic is again being used to rank applicability. Our sim, because we do multiple activiities..is divided into parcels. This means that every parcel, in order to be listed in events, will have to have a $30 fee…AND because of our multiple activity parcels, it will rarely rank highly. Our sim gets enough traffic to rank in Popular places most weeks and would probably be one of the few contending with the camping chairs. However, you would have to add all the traffic in the parcels together and that wont happen.
    Therefore, this sinks us yet again. Good product at the bottom.

  123. same here I can’t see where to opt-in for the new search in 1.18.4 (Mac)

    ??

  124. I agree with Ceera Murakami’s post #15, defaulting all existing objects in-world set for sale to searchable is a mistake. No Mod items cannot have ‘For Sale’ unchecked after you buy them. And even if they could, it should not be a resident’s responsibility to go thru every object they have in world and uncheck a box over the next few weeks.

    Other than that, I am so freakin’ excited I may explode!!!

  125. my for sale objects are not set to searchable by default either tho…

  126. Montana Corleone says:

    @52 Jeska – yes, if you are able to have settings for your parcel. Many people renting will not have that option. We had all of this with Electric Sheep. Listing stuff for sale should be all opt in by default. Aside from no mod things, many things are set accidentally, or by the creator, and people don’t realise. Often the default is set, L$10. When Electric Sheep did this people were tping into houses and buying 12k beds for L$10.

    Have you thought about how implementing this will affect the economy? eg network vendors, the fact if you can list items for sale there is really no need for shops, or malls? Just set stuff in your garden and be done with it…

  127. YES, YES, YES, YES, YESSSSSS!

  128. U M says:

    Oh wow! this is wild!!!!!!!!!!!!

  129. Al Supercharge says:

    Agreeing with the above entries like “Forget all this and concentrate on fixing the lag”. Here is a suggestion.

    I know you have maximum resources on it and lag is priority 1 but it is now time to bite the bullet and go further.

    If on the weekend you find that the frames per second in a sim is less than 1 (just about all the time when more than 30 people are on a sim), tell the AVs who are not premium and not land owners and not renters they have 2 minutes to leave the sim. And after 2 mins send them home.

    I realise you may not have data on those users who qualify for this and it goes against your policy of “access to all” but that was before lag became unbearable like it is today.

    Know and separately treat users who have no ownership in SL and don’t have them dragging us all down with them. Else you will start losing more of us who ARE invested in SL.

  130. Tegg B says:

    Rob A Says:Perhaps you aren’t hearing your screaming customers: STOP CHANGING THINGS THAT ALREADY WORK! Fix the lag, fix the network issues, fix the alt issues, and THEN if you’re still up to it you should re-do the freakin’ search. This is USELESS anyhow if you can’t move around or cross from one sim to another.

    Perhaps many problems will be fixed when people stop running 200 alts to bump their traffic up! Wonder how many thousand the residents on line will drop the day it comes into effect 😛

  131. Pingback: Second Life News for October 20, 2007 « The Grid Live

  132. Gaius Goodliffe says:

    @54: Interesting. I tried repeating your test. I did two things. First, made a no-copy/no-mod/trans box, set it for sale, took it back into inventory, and gave a copy to an alt with no mod rights. Then I left a copy out for the alt. When the alt rezzed the copy given directly, the For Sale box was indeed still checked, and incorrectly greyed out, but it let me uncheck it anyway (as soon as I tried using the greyed out checkbox, it returned to white like it’s supposed to be, as well as unchecking). I also tried just buying the object, and when I received the copy, the purchased copy had the For Sale box unchecked.

    I would first check that you actually can’t uncheck the For Sale box, don’t trust the fact that it’s grey — there’s no reason you shouldn’t be able to uncheck it if you own the object, modify-perms shouldn’t affect your ability to set something for sale. If it still won’t uncheck, just buy it. If you are indeed the owner, you’ll just be paying yourself for the object, and if it works the same as it did in my test, your newly purchased copy will not have For Sale checked.

    If none of that works, something really really strange is going on with that object…

  133. Matthew Dowd says:

    Firstly, a query about the FAQ:

    “14.Are objects which are on “private land” and set for sale going to be included in search?

    If your parcel is set not to show in search, your objects will not be listed.

    If your parcel is set to show in search, your for-sale objects will be listed.”

    Does this just refer to the initial population of the search engine or in general?

    Secondly, the Show in Search box can only be changed on objects you have mod rights for. There may be situations when you do want an object showing in search for which you do no have Mod rights, e.g. commision vendors.

    More seriously, if an object has already been set to Show in Search by the previous owner, you cannot reset this if you do not have mod rights.

    Moreover, it is the case that buying an object set for sale (either as copy or original) which has also been set as searchable results in you receiving an object which is also set as searchable. The casual user could be unaware of this and hence end up with an item on their land which is searchable without being aware of it (and of course cannot reset this if the object is no mod).

    PJiira’ed at http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-2821 and http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-2823

    Matthew

  134. Don’t like it, sorry. All you had to do is add ways to search a AND b or c NOT d and what you had would have been just fine.

    Search will never be relevant as long as people keyword spam their entries with words that have nothing to do with what they offer in some lame way to attract more traffic over.

    Oh, and why not get rid of traffic whilst you’re changing stuff? That would have had a far more positive effect on everyone, including killing off most of camping, which is the source of most of any given day’s problems.

    Broccoli

  135. Oh, and whilst you’re at it, how about adding a “Report” button to the Events listings so we can notify you of people flooding the events calendar with non events, back to back ‘grand openings’ that last a week, items for sale, and other detrius that makes that function useless?

    Unless you’re prepared to police the events calendar, and take action against those who abuse it – you might as well just take it out.

    Broccoli

  136. Tony says:

    I notice that in your image that the object set for sale will be seen. However you’re selling a copy object, how will this work when people want to sell the contents of an object?

    How will this work with say a JEVN or Hippotech vendor?

  137. Mustafaaab Connoiseur says:

    Search needs to contain the following critical tab to remain business competitive…..
    Corporations and Governments that have Islands or sims need thier own tab seperate from the rest of regular search. (they should still be listed in regular search however)
    SL residents need an easier way to find these places. Visitation will increase dramatically and all the bad press can begin to reduce as more residents get to these kind of locations easily.

    SL needs to become more business friendly.

  138. mimi says:

    I wonder when all objects for sale be in the search.. how will they be sorted?

    Because I wonder.. 90% of the objects for sale in secondlife are the same repetetive freebies and full permission items (they are sold in about any mall and in most of the mainland shops)

    How can we compete with that? If you type in dress and 2000 versions of the same freebie dresses will pop up what use will it be to still in the list? They are all 0 or 1$, so no doubt they will have the highest sales..

  139. Psistorm Ikura says:

    These new search features are looking good – and glad to see the blog is being read and reacted to 😀

    However there is one thing I would also like to point out: now that you are reworking the search functionality, wouldnt now also be a good opportunity to do away with the old traffic rating and instead include a new system? or is that mentioned in the blog post and I just overlooked it?

  140. mimi says:

    Traffic rates in many way can be usefull.. what use would it be to go to places endlessly and find noone there? I think camping traffic should be taken out, but active traffic is a good way of measuring what the places are that people like to stay into.

    For instance I wouldn’t want to search for a club then get 100s of results with noone there. Secondlife would become a very lonely place that way.. very hard to find other people.

  141. Phil Deakins says:

    The INBOUND LINKS idea in SL is so stupid. If you people knew anything about Web search engines you’d know all about gaming them, and how problematic the power of inbound links has been, and still is, to them. In theory it is excellent, but in practise it doesn’t work. On the Web, website owners create dozens or hundreds of websites just so they can link to their main site, and they spam forums, blogs, guestbooks, etc. just for the inbound links to their sites, and gaming the SL search will happen too.

    We have camping and lucky chairs for the purpose of gaming the ‘Places’ results (cheating the SL users), and we have goodness knows how many camping bots cheating the users even more. And now we’re going to suffer more cheating of the users when people come up with ways of acquiring inbound links.

    Google’s method of putting so much weight/value on inbound links was great in theory, because it was making use of the natural ‘voting’ of the Web, and initially it produced excellent search results – way ahead of the other engines at the time. But in doing it, they completely screwed up the Web, because people simply created unnatural inbound links all over the place, and since Google launched, they’ve been sticking band-aids over it, trying to make it work, and they can’t. That’s what will happen in SL – the more devious people will tend to succeed, the straight people will tend to fail, and SL users will be cheated even more.

    I know that the SL search is as basic (and bad) as a search engine can be, and that major improvements are needed, but it’s a wrong decision to copy the method of a search engine that screwed up the natural workings of the Web so much, and that has so far failed to make it work. Unfortunately for SL users, LL doesn’t need to make it work as Google continually tries, and fails, to do, so it doesn’t really matter to LL.

  142. Ceera Murakami says:

    First, thank you for keeping comments open. It’s nice not to be locked out after the first 100 replies.

    The assumption that prim items marked ‘for sale’ should be listed in search puts such items at a distinctly different level from items sold in vendors, which is how the vast majority of items are sold in SL. This was also an issue brought up when Electric Sheep Company tried doing this sort of object listing with their “Sheep Bot”.

    Look at any ten stores in SL. In the majority of them, you’ll find that they do NOT sell rezzed items in-world, or the contents of a box that is rezzed in world. Placing your items out in one-prim boxes is all well and good when you only sell 20 things in your store. But when you offer hundreds of them, and your mall space has a 50 prim limit? No way.

    My typical store has 5 scripted vendors in it. One of my vendors might have 30 dresses in it that can be chosen individually for purchase. Another might hacve 20 t-shirts. Another, 15 hats. But the scripted vendors themselves are not listed as ‘for sale’! So the only listing for my store is the classiffied ad that I pay for.

    Meanwhile, the dress shop next to me has 20 dresses for sale, each in one-prim boxes. They get 20 seperate listings in search, for FREE, because the Mall is listed in Search-Places?

  143. Dekka Raymaker says:

    Swings and roundabouts, players have been asking for this for so long, and now when it’s not the search system you think won’t suit you, you complain, unbelieveable really. Atleast they are giving you the time to sort yourselves out.

    Check out the links to post: 132 Second Life News for October 20, 2007

    It gives you a very good idea how this works, some of the information is quite funny, FREE Linden Fern for sale at L$1000, quite a few expensive ‘object’ for sale too.

    So you the resident have to do some work, maybe something you should have been doing all along?

  144. Dekka Raymaker says:

    @ 143 Ceera Murakami

    Check out the link in 132, it appears that items in vendors are listed separately, unless I reading it wrong, there are descriptions for the items for sale, but not the prices, so looks like you need to input the cost in description now so its available to read?

  145. Poppet McGimsie says:

    I think it is great that LL is moving in the direction of using “standard” search methods like google rather than reinventing the wheel.

    As google (and other search engines) evolve, so can searching in SL. Developer time on SL search is then spent in integrating these known search technologies and finding out what needs to happen within SL, rather than reinventing the wheel. This is a far more efficient use of developer resources.

    Kudos, LL people.

  146. mimi says:

    @142.. you’re so right. All you find now when you type in searches for google are google adds sponsored site..

    @144.. thanks for posting the link!

    I am looking for our shop in the seach and it seems many many people have them for sale somewhere (land sellers etc)
    If the search will be like this, we will have to make them all no transfer.. now typing in our shops name doen’t just give back our pages.. but pages of many many other commercial people we don’t want to be using our name to sell their land or commercial clubs :S

  147. Marcoh Larsen says:

    Downloaded version 1.18.4 for Linux, but the search didn’t change. Has anyone forgotten to update the Linux-client again?

  148. Ada Radius says:

    WOOT

    I would like to see some way to adapt this for rented land, too. A separate category for rented land in the land search settings. And a way to make rented land searchable, without the objects on the land (owned by tenants) searched? Something like that.

    Almost all of my tenants have gone on to upgrade to premium status to become land buyers – taking the rental land market into consideration is good for LL as well as SL, I think.

    And that TOS about using our information if there were a merger is appalling. The ethical (and probably legal) thing would be to give SL residents enough notice to opt out before the merger takes place. And/or stock options for land owners.

  149. Felicat Fairymeadow says:

    the search is really great but…. the example shows our Milch&Zucker group land as the best search hit.. but there is no FROG in the whole text ^^ i know it because i wrote it 🙂

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