Inventory Loss Reduction Initiative

Last month, Ian Linden described Linden Lab’s efforts to improve grid stability and there has already been an improvement in September’s unplanned outages, although it’s much too early to declare victory. However, one thing that was not discussed in detail in that blog post was what we are doing about Resident inventory loss. Residents have shown their frustration with inventory loss via numerous emails, calls, support requests, Office Hours discussions, Town Hall Meetings, and Project Open Letter. In response, we have begun an Inventory Loss Reduction Initiative within Linden Lab. There are currently a number projects under this initiative, which I’ll describe in this post.

Currently, the Second Life inventory consists of over 1 billion unique Resident assets whose size is 98 terabytes on disk. Each month over 15 terabytes of new data on disk is created by millions of inventory transactions. The Second Life Grid is large, with over 900,000 unique Resident logins each month across over 14,000 Regions. As a percent of all inventory transactions, the rate of inventory loss is low; however, when it happens to a Resident, it can be devastating. The primary challenge with Resident reported inventory loss is that we often cannot verify precisely where in the complex inventory system it occurred. As part of our ongoing efforts to focus on stability and performance, we have begun a Reduce Inventory Loss Initiative, which includes the following internal projects:

* Metrics Instrumentation
* Region Crash Reduction
* Asset Collection Improvement
* Bug Fixing
* Resident Reported Inventory Loss Analysis
* Architectural Enhancements
* Perceived Inventory Loss

Metrics Instrumentation
In order to identify where and why inventory loss is occurring in our complex system we’ve created this project. For this project we are adding much more precise logging of error codes throughout the entire system for inventory rez, derez and transfers, as well as other system processes including teleport errors. For those not familiar with this terminology, in this context: rezzing is the act of taking an object out of your inventory and placing it in a Region, and derezzing is the reverse act of taking an item from a Region and placing it in your inventory. The first round of instrumentation in June 2007 allowed us to identify and fix a major derez problem, that was averaging 38,000 derez failures per day between June 24th and August 15th when it was completely eliminated. In addition, there was a much larger spike on June 24th and around July 27th due to bugs that were temporarily introduced and load testing of the fix on June 24th. The good news is this particular problem has been completely fixed. The second round of instrumentation went live on the Second Life Grid on 2007-10-01, and we’re just starting to analyze the data — we expect this will give us significantly more insight into where the problems are.

Region Crash Reduction
Residents sometimes experience data loss during region crashes. This is especially true if a Resident rezzes a no-copy item and then the Region has to rollback to a previous checkpoint. This happens occasionally, but most of the time Regions are rolled back without data loss. Currently, 8% of all Residents sessions are terminated because of region crashes and rolling restarts. While most of these region crashes are able to recover without a rollback or data loss, we know this number is unacceptable. We hope Havok 4 will play a major role in reducing region crashes. We are also fixing other non-Havok 4 region crash bugs as part of the Havok 4 program.

Asset Collection Improvement
Assets are the items in your inventory and those you’ve rezzed onto land. When an asset is no longer in any Residents’ inventory and not rezzed in any Region, then we collect it and set aside for deletion. However, because it is a very complex problem to determine which assets are not being used, there are cases where we accidentally collect an asset, which is still in someone’s inventory. When you get an “Object cannot be found in inventory” error message, asset collection might be the cause. Fortunately, we have a program that is watching and puts the item back in your inventory within an hour if we still have it. So next time you get this error, do be sure to check back in an hour. We have just kicked off a project to improve asset collection to fix the underlying problem of accidentally collecting assets still in use.

Bug Fixing
Inventory loss bug fixing is not a new project, but it is important to point out that it’s an ongoing effort and inventory loss is considered very high priority. Sometimes we find code glitches or reproducible bugs causing inventory loss which have straightforward fixes, and these are given a very high priority. We encourage you to report inventory loss bugs with all relevant details in our public Issue Tracker, especially if they have solid reproductions, because they help our engineers pinpoint problems and fix bugs faster. See SVC-242 for an actual example.

Resident Reported Inventory Loss Analysis
While we expect to make significant improvements with the projects above, we know that we will not catch all sources of inventory loss. Thus, we are planning on starting a project within the next month to collect and analyze patterns of inventory loss reported by our Residents. This will help us develop use cases of where inventory loss is still occurring and allow us to validate whether we have really fixed various problem areas.

Architectural Enhancements
There are some longer-term architectural enhancements we are planning that will significantly improve the robustness of our system. These are discussed in Ian Linden’s Post from August and include our moving Second Life to web-services based technology.

Perceived Inventory Loss
While there are many causes of actual inventory loss, there are also cases where the asset is recoverable by the resident without help from Linden Lab, primarily because the asset was never truly lost. For example, sometimes in order to see missing inventory items, you need to clear your Second Life Viewer cache, logout and back into Second Life. We have a very helpful wiki page that describes Inventory Loss Recovery Steps, which should be the first place you go when you believe you’ve lost an item. Looking through this rather long list, we realized that we could fix some perceived loss just by changing the look and feel of the UI (user interface) and inventory-related functions. Thus, we’ve started a project to reduce some of the causes of perceived inventory loss.

Communication
If you have further questions or would like to discuss this blog post inworld, I’ll be holding an office hour at Longfellow at 56, 146, 25 on 2007-10-17 @ 2 PM PDT. I’ll be posting again on this topic after we have gathered more data and made some more progress to keep you up-to-date. In the meantime, we’ll be heads-down on the projects I’ve described above. I believe we have made a good start on addressing inventory loss problems and are headed in the right direction. Thank you for your patience while we work hard to improve Second Life.

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141 Responses to Inventory Loss Reduction Initiative

  1. Pepper Haas says:

    THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU

  2. Indra Herouin says:

    I reported this in various ways, bug report in game, email and a service ticket, no response what so ever. I do the steps adviced and get part of my inventory back, yet the problem continues, my inventory slowly gets eaten and i’m talking here about not only objects, it’s everything, clothing, attachements, copyable and not copyable. My inventory drops down on a fast rate to about 85% loss, all missing from database (wit 6000 items in my inventory we are talking about a fair amount of money here)
    Very frustrating and i just hesitate to buy anything expensive in world atm.
    The most frustrating is the lack of response from you guys. Even an email with ‘Hey we don’t have a clue’ would have been appreciated.
    Hope you get this fixed soon, cause its a serious dump for all the people doing business, cause hey i’m not buying and i’m sure the peple with the same problem as me dont do either.

  3. Megaera Cioc says:

    I don’t know what makes me happier: the fact that you are letting us know that you are doig something about this persistent problem, or just that fact that you are doing something about it at all. I do realize that it is a very difficult issue to resolve given all of the different possible causes, but that fact that you are (finally, belatedly) doing something about it is encouraging. Fix this one problem, and I can put up with just about all of the other ones we deal with daily on the grid.

    And to echo Pepper, “Thank you.”

  4. Jeza May says:

    Well lets hope it helps sort out losses for people.

  5. Speak of the devil lol you post this right after I lose a script I just wrote yesterday.

  6. angela seale says:

    i hate to be the harbinger of things to come, but i must ask why protecting our assets as your customers, and as your citizens wasn’t the first thing you protected. I must also say that as an investor in LL, since you are a privately held company, and i choose to keep assets with you I am an investor, your track record of protecting my assets is spotty at best.
    We have all heard the stories of half an inventory going missing overnight, with the response of “oops, it’s your fault” from LL in the past, so i guess my biggest question, is how is it our fault when we don’t have direct access to our property, or even to our creations, since the TOS grants you through design, the exclusive rights to our property, and as such leaves you as the sole proprietor, and the sole beneficiary of our work. as such our inventories are solely your property, and we are allowed to use it because you deem it to be so. as such, my fundamental question, is why are you limiting our license to the products that we collectively purchase a license to use, and what are you doing to guarantee that this license is perpetual, and not just the fluke of a momentary glitch in the database?
    please place “asset protection” as your FIRST priority, and not your last, if you can not guarantee that our inventories are protected against loss, how can you guarantee that our other assets are protected, our credit info, our RL information given to you to verify who we are, and other VITAL assets to us. Please address this situation as your first and only priority until this is resolved, or at least explain why your melange of mismatched software occasionally and randomly drops objects, instead of the “well if you lost something, it’s your fault, not ours” despite the fact that you own the hardware, the software, and all the servers taht the inventory databases runs on.

  7. Lincoln Lightfoot says:

    GREAT!!

  8. bobbyb30 zohari says:

    ” The primary challenge with Resident reported inventory loss is that we often cannot verify precisely where in the complex inventory system it occurred”????!!!!!

    WHAT DO YOU MEAN, CAN’T LOCATE???

  9. shockwave yareach says:

    About blinking time! Any other business, I’d have told the programmers to keep the inventory for the AV on the server they have set as their home, and mirror it to a group of servers. The mirrors are assigned by the first letter of the first name – a-g goes to mirrorserver1 while h-l goes to mirrorserver2 and so on. Whenever there is a descrepency between the two, an OR operation occurs so the worst that can happen is the user gets back something he thought he threw away. This distributes the load widely while also providing a redundant storage.

    Not sure whether this is possible right now. But it should be looked into for SL2.0 because no system with a single point of failure will become a cornerstone of the future web.

  10. Judi Newall says:

    Another example of Listening Lindens! I’m delighted, I’ve lost LMs, clothing and otehr objects. Cache clearing and upgrading to latest viewers is no help.

  11. Chav Paderborn says:

    Hooray!

  12. bobbyb30 zohari says:

    98 terabytes? You call this complex????

    Can you imagine if yahoo couldn’t find your email? Or if a a webhoster “lost” your webpage?

    WHAT HAVE YOU BEEN DOING?

    If you can’t keep track, let alone even gather data about inventory loss, how do you expect SL to be reliable or even for that matter usable? People spend a lot of time creating things in SL, and you Lindens are too “busy” “upgrading” SL to the point where you can’t even locate where an error is coming from?

    WHAT IS GOING ON!!

  13. Efemera Bisiani says:

    Wowzer! Another fantastic example of great communication. Showing you’ve listened to us, are working on the issues, and feeding back to us your progress. Would have been nice to know this was such a major project for you guys earlier on – might have pacified a few of the nay-sayers, but better late than never! /me is liking this new, communicative Linden approach – lots. Keep up the good work!

  14. Buster McNutt says:

    I’ve never lost a item, people that do loose items are prolly just doing something wrong.

  15. Ananke Kronos says:

    Buster, we’re not doing anything wrong…I’ve lost around 1000 items, and around 8000 linden dollars o that inventory loss, and all that you say is: “The primary challenge with Resident reported inventory loss is that we often cannot verify precisely where in the complex inventory system it occurred…”

  16. Atlwolf Blabbermouth says:

    Glad to see this being addressed. I don’t think people grasp the enormity of the data handled by the asset server and squids. It gets pretty tentacle.

  17. The XO says:

    THANK YOU LL!!!!

    This has been something people have been asking for since I joined, over a year ago! I know you’ve fixed a few de-rez bugs – again, thanks. It all helps!

    I understand that you have masses upon masses upon masses of data, so not only is it virtually trying to find a needle in a haystack.. but the expense in man hours looking for a belt of a t-shirt is totally unviable. That said…..

    What we really need is some sort of backup system. I know it creates an issue with no-copy objects, but surely this isn’t a problem in the grand scheme of things. You’ve made the entire grid from scratch so I’m sure you can solve that problem.

    Come on LL, land the knock-out punch and get rid of inventory loss once and for all. You will make a lot of people very very happy. From a commercial view, I’m sure people would be willing to pay a few hundred L$ a month for this service – that would compensate your development time.

    Vive LL, Vive Secondlife!! πŸ™‚

  18. Bikey says:

    What a great thing to tell us. Good luck, I hope you crack it soon.
    One thing id love to see one day, is to be able to download and keep a local backup of our assets on our own Pc’s/Macs. That would solve the problem. If it all went wrong you could then say ” We told you to make a backup” and follow it with ” But we thought you might not so we diid. Have all your stuff back. Remember to back it up…:)”

  19. Its great that clearing cache, logging off, and the logging back on sometimes fixes perceived inventory loss. But I hope you realize that having to do that dance is not a fix — its a work around. This should not be happening in the first place and the work-around dance is a pain in the butt, at best.

  20. Shadoskill Heckroth says:

    i think the best thing would be for you to be able to download a backup ofyour account or somthing

  21. Anna Valeeva says:

    I have lost tens of thousands of lindens worth of inventory due to Linden bugs. Despite having given the exact time and location of the loss, I was told about 1 month after logging a support request as a Concierge user that it could not be recovered. I am glad that Lindens are finally doing something about it, but I do find it very difficult to believe that there was no back up of the inventory that I had on the land for a total of about 4 months. To anyone this hasn’t happened to, the system for recovering inventory loss on mainland land was pretty much non-existent. If you never had it happen to you, consider yourself lucky. WHen you have invested thousands of lindens in things that get mysteriously lost due to bugs, it really sucks and basically no one could do anything for you.

  22. Skilly Infinity says:

    Thank you so much not only for addressing this issue in a systematic way but for letting us know what you are doing. One of the biggest problems I’ve seen in SL so far is that people feel as though Linden Labs is ignoring their legitimate concerns. This kind of communication is a big step in the right direction.

  23. Ricky Yates says:

    Very valuable update. Inventory loss definitely is one of the bigger SL worry points. It’s very good to see that you are taking measures against this.

    It’s also quite good that you give some indication of the size of the problem.

    Thanks for that & good luck in tracking this issue down.

  24. HealthStar says:

    This is a great post and much welcomed message. Something like this is certainly a turn in the right direction for LL. While in the back of our minds we all most likely realize you guys are working on our problems all the time to some extent, it is very important for us to hear about it, lest we forget. Keep up the work like this and keep us informed of it, it is really all we are asking for. I would recomend not letting something like this die away either, keep us updated on it via blog every couple of weeks, give us some fresh numbers and percentages. I liked seeing the numbers and percentages of data, objects, losses and such. It lets us know you have a grip on the situation.
    This is one of the best worded posts I have seen from LL in a long while. It was worded well, very professional. It gives you the feeling LL cares and is a far cry from the “blow offs” we have been used to seeing lately. I think previously a post from LL on this would have looked more like –

    Reguarding Inventory Loss – Inventory loss is a tiny percentage of all the combined inventory functions, we do a wonderfull job keeping up with as much as we do, We will however see what we can do. Most of the time though, items arent really lost, you just need to clear your cache, relog, buy a new video card, and learn to use your inventory filters better. Please see our knowledge base.

    This post wassnt like that at all. Really wonderfull job done on it. Keep remembering it is not always what you say, but how you say it that can bring praise or condemnation.

    Thanks for this, and I hope it is a sign of new times.

  25. Kyder Ling says:

    Most welcoming news. My experience with SL and inventory loss has been minimum, but my issues were of regional crashes and even that has been shaping up the past few weeks.

    Keep up the good word.

  26. Dwen Dooley says:

    @16: Uh, what?

  27. Megaera Cioc says:

    <>

    Bobby, that’s exactly what “lost” means. If they could locate it, ti wouldn’t be lost, dear.

  28. bobbyb30 zohari says:

    @27

    How do you loose valuable data and then not have the brains to devolp a method of tracking that loss? Thats like having Vista crash and then not know why it crashed?

    I’m wondering why this wasn’t implemented years ago?

  29. Reg Mannonen says:

    Wooo Hooo!!!!

    Only recently have i even noticed any lost inventory, but man it’s annoying when you notice things missing and have no idea where they went!!!

    Way to Go!!! Let’s hope these initiatives take us a long way to solving this most annoying problem.

  30. Nalin Nungesser says:

    Finally, something from LL that I’ve wanted to see, not just for myself, but for the many designers and others out there that have been forced to toil and cope with the losses (perceived and actual) of their entire collections…years of work down the drain.

    Thank you very much, Hamilton, for writing this blog post. It is greatly appreciated.

  31. Simba Fuhr says:

    OMG 98 Terrabytes ? Damn
    Now i can understand why you have some problems with this mass of data.

    Thank you ll πŸ™‚

  32. Jayden B says:

    And what about “Object cannot be created, no longer in database”?

    This error happens with alarming regularity. My losses are now over US$600 and still it happens over all my alts. Numerous support emails to LL return the cop out response, clear your cache… and if it’s really gone stiff bickies as we can’t recover inventory.

    This problem started when the manhole cover caused the electricity failure… before then it was never seen, after then, maybe 30% of my *older* inventory suffers from it.

    There is a Jira for this… unassigned of course… it has been months… the loss is in measured in huge amounts of real world dollars and in some cases the items are irreplaceable.

    I don’t mind loosing clothes and things I can buy again, but loosing photos of events that can never be repeated, loosing custom skins that were made by people now retired from the game and loosing my darned Jogauni firefly staff as well as the whole Av (the reward for over a month of hard work) something that can’t be bought…

    Run a DB integrity check thread, even with 98 terrabytes I think after a few you would get a shock, and maybe a kick in the pants to give this more effort.

    Thanks for trying, I really hope you can repair the borkage.

  33. Akiko Koba says:

    This is welcome news. Both my partner and myself have suffered inventory loss – myself twice in the last 2 weeks – one being over 3000+ items including all my snapshots and textures. The first stuff lost has never come back. The second loss (the 3000+ one) DID come back after reading other comments and trying a cache clear (even though I had already done that earlier in the day before the loss). It certainly has been becoming more frequent for many people. Even temporary inventory loss is annoying.

    Inventory/balance loss is the number one bug-fix priority, possibly with sales issues a close second. All the other stuff – lag, crashing, TP failure, search going down … as annoying as all these things are, and as much as we’d like to see these things sorted, they pale to the thought of losing all the things you’ve bought, whether you bought the Lindens, earned them through hard work, or even spent days/weeks camping.

    However, to just touch on the other blog post about ‘Lights on at the Lab’, I’d like to add a related comment.

    Yes, there are many companies who respond in better ways than Linden Labs do. BUT, there are some who are much worse. I used to play The Sims/The Sims 2 and Maxis/EA are absolutely useless. Their forums would be full of people crying out for bug fixes and Maxis would be totally silent. When they DID respond, it would often to be to deny that any bug fixes were needed. When they DID admit something was wrong (after weeks or even months of people asking for bug fixes) no ETA for a fix would be posted and weeks or months would go by with no information. Things on the forums would have to get very nasty between the people asking for fixes and the Maxis Groupies (oh, that we’d had the Chris Crocker You Tube back then to send them the link to – ‘Leave Maxis ALONE!’).

    For all the problems and occasional pigheadedness of LL over some issues (verification, voice), there is a feeling that pleas from residents aren’t totally ignored in the way they are at the Sims 2 site.

    I know it’s a big drain on resources, but you really do need to bring back full live help. The system you have right now for reporting issues is frighteningly complicated and very unclear. A lot of valuable feedback about issues in going unreported. Yes, the system was abused by people wanting to know answers to things they could get from reading the notecards they got on Orientation Island, but there are times when I really need to be able to talk to someone and deal with an issue step by step with guidance. It was a service I valued and did not abuse. Twice I used it for inventory loss issues and got quick, clear help. My alt has an issue with her account, but she was created AFTER you removed Live Help. For months now, I have tried to get this resolved through the available processes and I have met with absolute failure. It’s the same bank account as this avie, so there should not be any problems.

    This initiaive is a good thing. After months of the platform being so shaky that I have stopped recommending SL to people, it’s a good first step in the right direction. My partner and myself had actually been considering leaving SL and joining another virtual world, but we don’t really want to leave SL as we have both invested a lot of money here. In fact, she has already sold all of her land ready to go (she’s still very angry about her inventory loss – all of her purchased skins – and the lack of a response from LL about it).

    Thanks for this new initiative. It will make life easier for everyone.

  34. Jeremey Ryan says:

    I am glad that this issue is being looked at in-depth, I too have had some scary moments where things were lost and then show up again later. Indeed, some items I have never seen again. But my question to the LL gods is this? I would feel much better if I had a way to back up my inventory on my home system. To my knowledge, we cannot do this and I could never figure out why. I am not a newbie, and I have an established business in world, and I think it would be great if I could back up my inventory on my system just in case the whole grid goes down. Bottom line is this, its a digital world, and it doesn’t take much for those ‘bits’ to go away, right? Just a thought…

  35. pizzaguy Clutterbuck says:

    AWESOME! This sounds like if it all works, it will be the greatest update ever!

  36. Yngwie Krogstad says:

    I myself haven’t had a lot of problems with inventory loss. However, there was one time that I did lose something, and I immediately filed a bug report about it. I don’t remember the item that I lost, this long after the fact, except that it was some dance balls. However, I never got any resolution on the issue at all. No messages on the blog, in any updates, or anywhere else, stating that this bug has been fixed; no replaced dance balls; no nothing.

    The whole problem happened when I rezzed items, on my own property, that were all bundled together, instead of returned to my inventory one item at a time. The majority of them actually ended up on my land, geographically speaking, but there was one set of dance balls far enough away from the “main” item, that they got rezzed on somebody else’s land next to mine.

    That’s where the problem started. That lot was no build, no object entry. So they weren’t allowed on the property. No problem with that really, only THEY WERE NEVER RETURNED TO MY INVENTORY. Not placed in the lost and found. Not left inside a bundled package. Not sent anywhere except limbo. Since they were no-copy, gone forever. And to this day they still remain gone.

    So, since me reporting it through the official channels hasn’t done a bit of good, I’m going to ask you here instead: What are you going to do to fix this issue so other people like me won’t lose their stuff just because you can’t figure out how to send it back to their inventory when it gets sent someplace where it can’t be? I don’t expect them replaced anymore, I’m not that naieve, but for the love of Mike, stop it from happening to others already!

  37. Anthea Shilova says:

    THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU !

    Suggestion : logging or journaling the databases ? Like that when a resident reports a loss, you can trace all his inventory activities since the last backup …

    Keep up the good work an thanks

  38. YAAAAAAAAY!
    Finally, I’m glad to see you guys taking a positive stance towards inventory loss — AND THANK YOU FOR THE TECHNICAL INFORMATION!
    More please! πŸ˜€

    Tell us about the problems you encounter WHEN you encounter them (unless it’s a exploitable security flaw, in which case, fix it and THEN tell us about it.) and how you discovered them, how you intend to fix them, and keep us updated.

    Seriously, Don’t be afraid to make 10 long blog posts in a day if you have to. We will love you for it. WE WILL LOVE YOU FOR IT.

    Go, Linden Labs, go! TAKE OVER THE WORLD, ONE BUGFIX AT A TIME! πŸ˜€ πŸ˜€ πŸ˜€ πŸ˜€ πŸ˜€

    (And a BIG BIG BIG thank you to the Lindens that are participating in the SLDev mailing list. Even Phillip has posted! Keep it up, you guys are doing an AWESOME JOB! And a special thank you to Studio Icehouse!)

  39. Sling Trebuchet says:

    Great! Very cheering post. πŸ™‚

    There’s a saying – “The person who never made a mistake, never made anything.”
    There’s no doubt that LL screwed up a few things royally πŸ™‚ — and then inflamed the situations through abysmal communications. On the other hand, they have done some wonderful things.

    I’d rather take it from here onwards, and not sit around bitching about water under the bridge.

    I love SL, but of late I’ve really been thinking hard about pulling back.
    This latest post, and even Ginsu’s update to his original muppet PR post, give me cause for optimism.

    Onwards friends into fun and merriment πŸ™‚
    May we all have a blast.

  40. pointside Sunbelter says:

    I want to apologize to everyone because half of that billion items is in my inventory.

    I am glad that major issues like this are being openly taken care of. It cant be fixed if you never start fixing it. And I know a lot of ppl with this problem.

    I understand how inventory loss can be frustrating, but I have never lost any inventory items and I currently have 12k or so.

    BUT, I have my **cache cleared automatically on startup** using that feature in the debug menu under the client menu. I have no idea if that contributes to my good fortune but who knows.

  41. Sabbrinna Sinatra says:

    Its about time !

  42. Kate Sakai says:

    Another important question… will we be getting our items back? Those of us who spend our SL time building cannot re-buy items we have lost. They are unique creations that are difficult to re-create. So far I’ve lost over 20,000 items over time. I think we’d all appreciate getting our lost items back.

    It’s good to know you are finally focusing on a very serious problem that has existed for nearly a year now. Good luck fixing it quickly! πŸ™‚

  43. HealthStar says:

    I for one do not ever want to see the day we can back up our items to loacal drive. I know it sounds nice in theory, but if those files were released to the local drives of the userbase it would take about an hour for someone to figure out how to hack them, and break out the items for web trading and insertion into the local files for uploads back into the game.

  44. I’ve lost a lot of valuable things, and it’s not because I did anything wrong. Most of my lost was on a plot of land that for a couple days, anything that was set out, then “Take”n back, disappeared completely. After losing a platinum sexgen bed (12 thousand lindens) I did some test objects and set them out, took them back, and for about more than a day those objects would just disappear. The glitch was eventually fixed but the objects lost stayed lost. I think I’ve lost something between 50 thousand to 100 thousand lindens worth of merchandise in the 11 months I’ve been using SL. And yes I did report the initial larger losses to Linden Labs, and they were no help at all.

    I’ve know lots of people who’ve losts thousands of lindens of merchandise, a lot of it newly bought items too. It would be nice if we didn’t lose so much of our stuff, especially when it’s so expensive. I often wonder why Linden Labs never had any kind of back up or mirror system to help people not lose stuff when SL glitches… especially as it glitches rather regularly. I think that they finally are doing ANYTHING, is rather nice, of course whether this will actually help us the member users is still to be seen.

    Inventory loss sucks.

  45. bobbyb30 zohari says:

    All of our creations are stored in 98 terabytes? If its only 98 terabytes, whats so hard to make a mirror version so our items don’t get “lost”???

  46. Rooke Ayres says:

    98 Terabytes! Whoa!

    98 Terabytes = 98,000 Gigabytes!

    If the disk drives used to hold all of that were on 250GB disks, that’s, let’s see 250GB x 4 = 1 Terabyte, and 98Terabytes x 4 = 392 disk drives. And that’s just for the Asset Inventory. That’s a lot!

  47. 98 TB is not unmanagable says:

    yes, thats a gigantic number when your only frame of reference is your desktop hard drive, but other companies can and do deal with that amount and more(google, hotmail, yahoo mail, etc) without issue. the amount of spam alone on some of those services has _got_ to be in the terabyte range/day

    local backups would be a good way to add another layer of safety.

    QUESTION: can you make a copy of the appropriate files outside of the client, then reapply them at a later date/time without causing problems(client side or server side)? similar to how you would export your bookmarks to a file in firefox, then simply overwrite the bookmarks.html file with the saved file should you have to reinstall.

    seems obvious, but haven’t tried it. anyone?

  48. Jayden B says:

    >>If the disk drives used to hold all of that were on 250GB disks, that’s, let’s see 250GB x 4 = 1 Terabyte, and 98Terabytes x 4 = 392 disk drives. And that’s just for the Asset Inventory. That’s a lot!

    No, considering that terrabyte disks exist, even in a mirrored and raided system such as these are in it’s really not much.

    Using your figures, considering LL have 1,200 servers… if each has a 250GB disk to boot from there is 292TB of just boot partitions.

    Looking at it the other way… 10,000,000 people with only 98TB of data is about 9MB each.

    (these figures are of course nonsense, just illustrating how small an amount it is)

  49. bobbyb30 zohari says:

    @47 98 Terabytes = 98,000 Gigabytes, True, but in today’s standards thats not that much.

    My WD portable hard drive holds 250GB
    My computer has 2 Terabytes.

    You pay between $200-300 for a terabyte. (A little less if you buy in a package of 2 or more). If you don’t believe me, look on ebay, amazon, dell, or intel.

    Basically, all of our creations (assests) are stored on 50 or so machines at a cost of $30k. A large number of residents have lost hundreds of dollars worth of assets. It seems akward that LL is so reluctant to mirror their asset servers which could greatly increase reliablity and reduce load.

  50. bobbyb30 zohari says:

    @49 I agree. LL should simply mirror our assests. They are certainly loosing more time and money in mirroring manpower which is required to respond to asset losses.

  51. Ric Mollor says:

    In todays news:
    —————————
    a full 30 worlds are showing off demos at the Virtual Worlds conference.

    And

    InDuality Brings All Worlds to One Web Browser. With OpenID, users could potentially just login to the portal world and then move seamlessly from one world to the next
    —————————

    I believe that the ‘Lindens’ will be paying much more attention to their userbase in the future. :^)

  52. angels jewel says:

    Thank you at least now we know Linden Lab is checking out the issues with Lost Inventory!!!!!

  53. Echo Kinsella says:

    This would have been nice when my entire “houses” folder of some 30kL worth of houses dissappeared out of my inventory or better yet my prim daughter and all that went with her. *sigh* When will you return my daughter to me. *cries* lol

  54. raudf says:

    One thing I think really needs to be addressed is concerning textures and their application to prims. Recently, (within the two weeks.. on my RL b-day) SL ate one of my lace textures. It was a ‘missing image’ no matter how you sliced it. That would not have caused me much concern, except that apparently, it affected EVERY PRIM that the texture was used on! This affected not only those items in my inventory, but the gowns that others had bought too.

    So, this makes me assume that when a texture is applied to a prim or outfit part, it’s just a call to a UUID. But what ticks me off the most, is that I was WEARING a gown that was affected, so it was obvious that the texture was in use still. How on earth do we ‘recover’ that?

  55. Winter Ventura says:

    “Resident Reported Inventory Loss Analysis
    While we expect to make significant improvements with the projects above, we know that we will not catch all sources of inventory loss. Thus, we are planning on starting a project within the next month to collect and analyze patterns of inventory loss reported by our Residents. This will help us develop use cases of where inventory loss is still occurring and allow us to validate whether we have really fixed various problem areas.”

    Can you tell us precisely HOW we’re supposed to REPORT when these things happen? the general perception is that we’re supposed to “file a jira”.. if you use the bug reporter, 2 months later you get an email saying your bug report was not addressed and you need to file a jira if you can still remember what the problem was.

    What specific methods can we (the comcierge, premium, basic, and unverified account holders) use to report these issues?

    I think you’ll find the problem is far more widespread than you think.. if you give us a way to actually report it easily.

  56. Vahn Dagger says:

    One important thing to fix PERCEIVED inventory loss. Improve the horrible caching system we have. It corrupts way too easily and when it does, that opens the window to several perceived bugs.

  57. Great to know you guys are doing something about it! I hope the load time for inventory gets cut down a bit too. Mine doesn’t load fully most of the time.

  58. Smiley Barry says:

    98 Terabytes over 14,000 regions??? I think you got the regions number wrong — 14,000 is way too much. I guess 6,000+/- will make the right number.

    Plus, thanks! I did notice the asset fixing program once, was pretty awesome. Was right where it was before πŸ˜‰ .

    -Smiley out πŸ˜‰ .

  59. Sindy Tsure says:

    /me wonders how much of the asset DB is made up of 100% default cubes named “object” in peoples L&F or Trash folders…

  60. Rayy Giles says:

    I think a good way to lower your asset server problem is to delete avies that have not been logged into for the last 12 months. This will in turn gives Linden Labs and the community a better record of how many residence are truely in Secondlife. Not to mention this will keep the cost down for Linden Labs because of less storage space so us paying residence dont have to pay for all the non paying residence. Lindens really need to make another membership pricing, Keep current pricing but make a price for new residence that dont want to own land at a cost of $2.00 or 3.00 a month. This move would help the ecomony because freebie accounts wont come in and make full permission products and then leave Secondlife in the hands of us paying residence that have to clean up the mess later.

  61. Samantha Chandler says:

    How do free members report inventory loss?

  62. Jayden B says:

    @63 hehehe

    A google on “initiaitive” returns this blog in number one position.

    In number 5… http://www.clintonfoundation.org/pdf/chai-faq-053007.pdf

    Bill Clinton uses the same arse-about spelling.

  63. Max Kleiber says:

    Good news.
    While I personally haven’t suffered from any loss of inventory, I know many people who have.

    I also find it very pleasing in general that this and other topics relating to user experience are being made note of via the blog posts.

  64. River Senyurt says:

    Sorry but its ridiculous saying that inventory loss is minimal i lost over 60%of my inventory worth hundreds of dollars. not happy at all and it means that wha ti buy cant be garatuued wi ill still have it later ?

  65. AnnMarie Otoole says:

    Since scripts you write, or to which you have access, can be easily stored in your local computer, I always keep copies and at one stage saved losing 8 months of development work when some critical inventory items vanished.

    Perhaps a small button added to the script editor would make it easy to save a copy of the script to local storage. It doesn’t solve a problem but it sure makes recovery less painful and would be used more if reduced to a couple of clicks instead of select/copy/paste/save.

  66. Lucian Halasy says:

    “In order to identify where and why inventory loss is occurring in our complex system we’ve created this project”

    You do this now? …or better said, what made you decide to do this now? Do people stop buying L$ from you to rebuy lost items because they’ve got enough of this bull?

  67. Bryon Ruxton says:

    I would suggest an inventory size restriction for free accounts to 5000 items max as a measure of prevention to control the data expansion rate.

  68. Darien Caldwell says:

    @70, I think the people with the biggest inventories are probably the ones buying things, maybe we should limit them to 5000 items instead. :p

  69. Karyn says:

    98 Terabytes…Wow! Time to start pruning our invents! ROFL

    I agree with the comments about storing them on the local computer…

  70. Wow. Thank you for this highly informative post.

  71. Kurt Spitteler says:

    Would it be possible for members to have the option of down/up-loading inventory to their own computer.???

  72. bobbyb30 zohari says:

    @70 I believe that non paying members should have some type of an inventory limit. Many campers have an inventory of over 30k items!

  73. FreeDaWeb says:

    I know the big thing about keeping the inventory off the client side of the interface is to prevent the hacking/illegal building of objects by the client user. However, a minimal file, like the cache already present in the viewer, would solve some inventory loss issues. It would also make a lot of the big ticket sellers in SL (Clothes, Skins, Shapes, notably) a lot more comfortable with putting more product out there knowing they have a back up available locally.

    I can already hear stuff about Blizzard and Battle.Net and the hacked Stones of Jordan. Yes, putting the inventory will likely introduce (enflame?) the hacking issue found in most client-side items. However, if you limit it to certain things, like client-side purchases or creations, then (IMO) it has a reduced potential for hacking.

    As for a sever-side potential solution, why not offer severs with data backup for nominal fee, that would eliminate client-side hacking and increase revenue for LL. But ***DON’T PUT THE DATA BACKUP ON THE SAME SERVER-WEB THAT IS BEING FOR THE GAME*** Hence, the reason for a nominal fee, it’s gonna cost to get new boxes and shelves for data back up and retrieval.

    “But Mr. FDW, what about a power outage or such?”
    There is a reason is it called a back up. It will allow for the client to get back old inventory, in legitmate cases. Yes, now we talk about hiring a few more folks who will get the joy of sorting the dross from legitmate inventory loss claims. Hopefully, they won’t be deluged by folks who don’t first try to use the internal search device of the inventory field or just open their eyes. Most likely there will be also a bench mark for priority based off of total USD or LD value, as well as a related incident to increase/decrease priority (Sim Crash, AR about getting griefed, TP FUBAR, ect). ‘Freebie Items’ feh, go get another one.

    Neither is perfect and potential for abuse on both, but they are ideas where a open environ to talk about such exists. Feel free to cut them down or improve upon them

  74. Sofia Westwick says:

    I was hit by inventory loss in april. It was bad wiped out over half of my inv.

    I hope that never happens again.

    I can say I see my self alot of improvements in the grid. from then to now. Alot of you may not remmeber how when the grid first started hitting 30k and 40k people online it would almost kill the grid performance. Couldn’t move couldn’t teleport couldn’t do anything.

    Now its doing alot better. Its not been as bad as it use to be for a long time now.

  75. Chance Unknown says:

    “Thus, we’ve started a project to reduce some of the causes of perceived inventory loss. ” The introduction of coalesced objects, and our inability to view what is in a coalesced package is a contributor to this. It mostly comes when a land owner does a complete parcel return to someone of their objects. Now that 12,000L sexgen bed you had is lumped with an object called “tree” which does not allow it to stand out very well. I have had to hand out the FAQ on coalesced objects to my residents numerous times, and rezzing the coalesed item causes all the stuff to be restored to relative positions. in a sand box, its difficult to even be able to unpack and sift these things.

  76. Zachary Carter says:

    @60:

    There *are* 14,000 regions. I know. I’ve got an entire database full of them.

  77. Kay Douglas says:

    Manage doubloon would be necessary in the client to decrease the size of the inventories.

  78. I find it very strange that despite all the time I spend in SL and all the complaints I hear about things such a Inventory loss, as well as other common things… I’ve never actually ever lost anything from my inventory, of course saying that has probably just doubled the chances, but at the time of writing I can say that in the near two years of using SL frequently, I have never lost a single item.

    I do find it very odd when others get it. It is also great to hear that LL seem to be taking action against the problem. Not that they weren’t before, just this time it’s more public. πŸ™‚ πŸ˜›

  79. Rex Cronon says:

    I wonder if it were possible to download and to upload ONLY the objects(or linked sets) you create to and from your computer, how much would you be willing to pay? And, through how many hoops are you willing to jump through? It might not be an easy way to do it.

  80. taff nouvelle says:

    @60
    delete av;s inventories that have not logged in for 12 months and you delete any texture4s they have made, and leaves a big chunk of missing image. not good .

  81. Jamie Palisades says:

    98 TB, eh? Shockwave (above) said something *really* important: “No system with a single point of failure will become a cornerstone of the future web.” Or rather, the web-replacing platform that SL wants to be. That command-and-control design is the disease; inventory loss is just a symptom. Today’s tech fixes aside, please give some thought to these business/architecture issues for the grid’s future.

  82. Kalimero desantis says:

    Ok I am not really the big Mathematic !!

    But as i look at the numbers i must say
    !!!! Mirror our assets !!!
    and i will not say please could you???
    i have to say do it now !!!

    “Looking at it the other way… 10,000,000 people with only 98TB of data is about 9MB each”.

    “Basically, all of our creations (assests) are stored on 50 or so machines at a cost of $30k”

    — and what would be the price for mirror machines for premium members lets say 10 % premium = 3000 $ for mirror machines!

    As i pay 10 US$ each month for a premium it should be worth my inventory to be mirrored!!

    All those
    – Freeaccounters
    – bots
    – just created for camping accounts
    – unused accounts over 12 months

    should get a restriction of Inventory Size and a non mirrored invent!

    And if linden will not spent that ridicoulos amount of 3000 $ (even let it be 10.000) to get the invent of premiums to be mirrored give your customers the change to backup inventory on their own machines!

    I would even pay a one time 10 us $ fee to be sure my invent gets backed up!!!!

  83. Nack Barnes says:

    What is sort of funny is that these items aren’t lost from the database, the transaction server can find them and point them out, if someone at LL wants to go look. Thing is, it would take an army of employees to keep up with the Inventory Lost complaints if LL wanted to actually return lost items to their owners. So, they tell you it can’t be done, or won’t be done.

    There are Residents who’ve had their entire inventory lost, then days, weeks, later after LL was arm twisted, had their entire inventory restored. It’s entirely POSSIBLE to find and restore your lost inventory. If it’s not done, it is because it isn’t economically feasible for LL to hire that many people dedicated to such Customer Service sorts of tasks.

  84. Storyof Oh says:

    I lost a heap of inventory but after relogging it appears back so not all is ‘lost’ just temporarily awol……
    Unfortunately lack of time means i haven’t reorganised an inventory now overflowing with duplicate freebies, might be nice but maybe complex to flag up the loading of a duplicate item that you arent physically copying yourself.

  85. Uccello says:

    Perhaps I’ve been lucky, but it wasn’t until very recently that i’ve experienced inventory loss that wasn’t my fault. I opened a storage prim (a technique recommended in the printed, official guide to SL) filled with last year’s Halloween decorations and clothes. Over 50% of the items cannot be rezzed in-world … “Item not in Inventory Database.” They all show in my Inventory, some with UUIDs intact and others without. Some were original content. Some were purchased. All-in-all, some $1000L of loss.

    I am afraid to open my other storage prims and loathe to make new ones. I have created an alt (also per the guide) to store my full-perm items, but I’m not sure if that is safe, either.

    The Inventory Loss Recovery Steps have not been helpful in this situation. i would imagine having the UUID would help recovery. Who can help me with this?

  86. Rayy Giles says:

    @80
    I didnt layout a business plan but i guess your knowledge of programs is just to double click to open. Very simple program to write, program does a cross reference of who hasnt logged in the past 12 months, then does another cross reference of their inventory of what was created by them, lindens takes what was created by them and keeps that in the assets servers and gets rid of all their other junk which on most accounts not logged into the last 12 months is probly a 100% of their inventory.

  87. free user says:

    I hope you get this problem worked out. I hate gettin on and seein the stuff I worked so hard for not in the folder.

    Oh and us free users…we work very hard inworld to earn the inventory we have, so why is it fair to limit us? If a limit is imposed it should be for all SL users.

  88. Uccello says:

    hmm… I’m a bit surprised. After re-reading all the replies it struck me that no one mentioned “backup” .. specifically, letting users backup their inventories to a local machine or other drive (say, .Mac or other service). And I’m suprises that I didn’t think of it. After a recent cull I got my inventory down to about 9,600 items. About how much space would that take?

  89. nika talaj says:

    Very glad to see this blog post. We see many distraught people land in the forums looking for help with the dreaded “Object missing from database” symptom, and regrettably we can do basically nothing for them, since items rarely return from that particular variant of inventory loss. Giving you solidly reproducible examples of inventory loss is well-nigh impossible, since no one ever knows what event precipitated the loss. Of course, once it is missing, that is sadly often completely reproducible (if uninteresting!).

    @67 “I would suggest an inventory size restriction for free accounts to 5000 items max as a measure of prevention to control the data expansion rate.” Perhaps you mean those without payment info on file, as opposed to ‘free’ (non-premium) accounts? Many non-premium account holders are major contributers to SL’s economy, both in terms of dollars spent inworld and in terms of content creation.

  90. Nebadon Izumi says:

    Yea fix this problem already, what i find disturbing is that for several weeks now i have been told there was no problem and that i should clear my cache on at least a 1/2 dozen occasions by support team. I would like to thank the Wonderful Linden Labs Support team for making me feel like this was my fault and that I obviously didn’t know what i was talking about.. quite literally 1/2 of my 26,000 items in my inventory say they are missing from inventory when i try to rez them. Quite honestly i don’t even know why i play this game anymore, seems like an utter waste of my time anymore!!

  91. Psistorm Ikura says:

    hm I better quickly post before we hit the magic 100!

    first of all: happy to hear this problem is being adressed on a broader front now πŸ˜€ – whilst I have mostly been spared by inventory losses apart from the occassional AO settings notecard, I understand how bad it feels for people to lose sometimes unique assets.

    and to those who moan about a new architecture: its coming, folks, check the blog…

  92. Luciftias says:

    “And if linden will not spent that ridicoulos amount of 3000 $ (even let it be 10.000) to get the invent of premiums to be mirrored give your customers the change to backup inventory on their own machines!”

    It is amazing how quickly a back-of-the-envelope calculation becomes a fact in an SL blogswarm.

  93. Martin Magpie says:

    /me bangs head on desk. Big blue take over and prices to increase yet again. Wow your not just nudging me out of this world your pushing me over the edge with a Mack truck. Yeah I predicted that too, just sorry I was right.

  94. dudleydr says:

    That is all well and good, but what about the items that are unusable in our inventory, because of the “item not found in data base”? I still have items that show in my inventory, but get that error message.

  95. amilie anatine says:

    Its a about effin’ time you addressed this and thank you for the wiki. I agree that percieved and real loss should be sorted out and thank you for helping everyone figure that out. Overall percentage of residents affected is low? NO WAY! every time i turn around someone has lost their entire inventory, or someone tries to rez something and it says “object not in database” devastating is an understatement, for some people, its simply impossible to play the game. To replace everything is costly and time consuming, not to mention completely depressing. What i would really like to see is a very quick and easy way to report these losses, maybe like we report abuse… submitting a ticket takes a long time and nearly impossible to address over back and forth email. Would be nice if you had in world triage office hours for inventory loss.

  96. Cat Gisel says:

    3 Months later, about L$15,000 worth of items from my old club have last week reappeared in my inventory after going “Off World” instead of being returned to my inventory. I dunno how ya’ll did it, but ya did it. I am happy πŸ™‚ Thank you πŸ™‚

    \o/
    /_\
    / \

    Yay!

  97. Akeela Banting says:

    Good to hear you’re recognizing the problem.
    However, unless you’re porting the asset database to a system that is actually designed to carry such a load, not much improvement will be possible.

    “Object missing from database” is propably the most frustrating error you can get when you want to put on a beloved piece of clothing. The only short-term solution to that problem is a local, client-side backup of the invetory items. Why not make it encrypted? There are enough algorithms that should make illegit copying impossible.

  98. Any time you’re dealing with digital information, loss or corruption is always a risk. Yes, it’s frustrating, but insisting it should never, ever, under any circumstances happen is asking for the impossible.

    I’m glad they’re making an effort to improve, and I hope it goes well, but the people who are hitting the roof about it need to remember:

    Terms of Service. Section Five. You clicked “I Agree.” to all of it.

  99. moo Money says:

    I’m not reading through all the comments, but a simple way to fix the perceived inventory loss is to clear your cache, restart in Brilliant or Montara, and stand still until all of your inventory has loaded. It should clear up the problem of folders appearing empty.

  100. mimi says:

    Great to know things are beeing done about this!
    I hope it will make things better.. i guess it can never be completely deleted but any improvement would be nice

    I wonder if there would be any (payed) way of having a backup inventory? it would be great for those of us who own objects that are worth a lot of money

  101. Archer Braun says:

    Listen…seriously…you need to listen to this…create a way for residents to back-up their inventories. You really, really, really need to do this.
    I back up everything on my computer on a regular basis. I’d be willing to do the same in SL…if you provide me with the tools. Let me back up my inventory, save it on one of MY drives…and if it’s ever lost again…then at least I have a backup.

    Please. Provide residents with the ability to back up their own databases.

  102. See what happens the day I go to Omaha to see my Physician!

    Let me say this, without any reservations, Good Job Linden Lab.

    I thank you that you have finally given the Community clear and precise information concerning what YOU as a corporation are doing and what you as a corporation feel is acceptable and not acceptable in the way of inventory loss.

    I only hope that you continue with this level of information and communication in this area, as I’ve grown extremely tired of blogging about the bad ways of Linden Lab, today you’ve given me a reason to write something positive; thank you!

  103. U M says:

    I see it and then believe it

  104. In RL, I’m so forgetful, I loose stuff on a ever increasing basis (It’s the age you know). But I’d so love the ability to wake up in the morning in my SL, knowing that I’m wearing my tracksters & hoodie. A couple of times I’ve been wearing formal grey or a missing image number. I’m is very nervous in formal clothing.

  105. Bucky Barkley says:

    So.. where’s Cory?

    How come the CTO cant seem to be bothered to post about this or any other major tech issue on a regular basis?

  106. JetZep Zabelin says:

    Sim crashes cause my worst losses and backing up is not so easy when things are not or cannot be linked.

  107. Blinders Off says:

    Hey, this was a good article. Open. Honest. Informative. Sounds great.

    If I may, there is one other area of “inventory loss” that while not true loss, is equally or more sinister. That is the area of ALTERED PERMISSIONS.

    This is especially bad when a merchants sets out an item that is, say, nomod/nocopy/trans, and he received a report a few weeks later (after it’s been stolen to death) that for some reason, the item is now full perm (or oddly, quite often just the opposite settings… mod/copy/notrans, which is a little less damaging, but does allow full copying of the item).

    The perm situation is related to inventory handling and can cause a merchant to lose his most valuable product. Really needs to be checked.

    In the same concept, for a long time people have been asking for INCREASED PERMISSION OPTIONS. For example, a merchant may wish to allow MODIFY SIZE but not modify color or texture. So several MOD options might be allowed.

    TEXTURE SALES have long been a problem, because if a texture merchant releases a full perm texture, he’s just lost his business. But anything less is of little value to builders-for-hire. Therefore….

    How about special texture perms? Allow sales of a texture that is resizable and copyable, and TRANS IF ON AN OBJECT, otherwise NOTRANS. Texture merchants really, really need this option.

    These things are all tied into inventory. Inventory without proper perms is useless. So while we’re on the subject, might as well make the whole thing run better, eh?

    But as for this article, thanks. Nice to know what’s going on.

  108. Phoenixa Sol says:

    So, when can I expect all the items your grid has eaten to be returned? It’s a rather expensive list now.

  109. Christine says:

    Never lost a single item either. Do people sometimes clear their cache ? But I agree that I would feel better if I could backup my inventory somewhere on my computer as I do for other important stuff. At least, it would be great to be able to download a list of files and items with infos as creator and date. Carry on the good work, Lindens !

  110. Kosmos Asturias says:

    my main issue with inventory loss, is when scripts inside scripted objects are no longer editable. This happens frequently on objects I’ve not rezzed for a while, but then pull out and want to reuse for a new project, but then I find I cannot modify the script. The script will still work, but I cannot modify the script’s code, or even view it.

  111. Traveler Soon says:

    Hello Linden,

    Well first I would like to say I am enjoing Sl so far.

    To me inventory as a whole is one of the hardest menus to work with, in that it only has the one scroll bar, Search is almost too basic, and the inventory as a whole when working in or moving item aorund. There is a copy and paste but, if the item is “no Copy” makes it hard to work with and hightlight and move sucks. How about a MOVE item.

    The point is that the inventory to me is like a savings account, if you buy alot. Now, I have readed in the Hand Book on SL, that the best way to back up your inventory in to drop an item in to a prim and store it in game. Well that’s a good ideal but, if an item has “no Transfer” It does’nt help much.
    I think “NO Transfer” should be fixed to see if i own a “NO transfer item” and drop it into another AVIE owned by me or a Prim I made. That “No transfer” Sees it as the item is still mine or owned by me and not as a transfer of ownership.

    Also can the inventory window be worked on, so that it works like windows explorer. Folder on one screen, the item on the other or slip screen?

    Last ideal i had is to make a way that the inventory is like going to the Bank?
    Example: An item or “BANK BOX” in game is drop on the land, is linked to a server for storage. Ideal being I drop an item in the box and then held for later used this making it a way of backing up inventory items. OR Have the inventory copied to my harddrive so I can work on it outside the game. Making the item unable to open and just to move the file around.

    As a whole I enjoy the game, I dont really care if any of these ideals can be used or not. I just figure I would put it out here.

    Thanks
    Ts

  112. Snickers Snook says:

    @14

    Buster, obviously you don’t own that many shoes.

  113. Pingback: Tired of Loosing Inventory Items? « The Grid Live

  114. Agent Revolution says:

    What about a Loss Inventory Recovery Initiative before?

  115. LordRingsMottoEatMore says:

    Most common losses I find are gesture losses. lol More-so custom made ones where i have uploaded audio, etc.

    Logging into particularly laggy locations tends to add to this problem. Perhaps communication issues due to packet loss, etc.

  116. BELIEVE IT WHEN I SEE IT says:

    all i have to say is its OVER DUE and ABOUT BLOODY TIME!

  117. this is not on the topic, but it is important about this forum:

    some days ago I spend half an hour to chisel a contribution, looking for documentation, etc… and when I pressed on “submit comment” I just went on “comments are now closed” and my work was lost. This is very frustrating and I strongly advise LL to close comments by removing the form ONLY, knowing that there may be a number of people still in the process of writing a message. Please still accept these messages! Said otherwise, close the tap, (the form) but please don’t kill the messages which are still in the pipe!

    Thanks to heed. This should not be very complicated to implement, just removing the form when comments are closed.

    I also strongly suggest that useless comment should be removed, to left room to useful comments and valuable expression.

  118. Renee Faulds says:

    There LL

    PayPal Agreement CANCELED !!!!!!

    I am now a basic member still suffering from your crappy software!!!!

  119. Roxi Bingyi says:

    What if we held a giant clean up week. Where every resident does their best effort to clean out their inventory of unwanted items. If promoted properly, would this help to “clear the grid air”? Would allowing a less amount of inventory items per resident help? We have to admit we’re all sitting on thousands of items we never use. It’s cluttering my files, I’d imagine it’s not helping SL either.

  120. TheBlunderbuss says:

    Feeling the pressure from Google’s hot air about a competitor to SL? You should. It’s a giant.
    If:
    1. They provide a product that closely matches SecondLife in most all respects (including an open-sourced client)
    2. They provide an environment that’s more stable than SL
    3. LindenLabs doesn’t make good on this stability initiative and actually make a marked improvement on stability
    Then Google will become a large competitor. This could be good for SL, believe it or not. It would lighten the load on the servers! πŸ˜‰

    LindenLabs’ making the client open-sourced was a great gesture; however the problem resides server-side, imo.
    I’m a big proponent for FOSS, so if Google doesn’t open large portions of their system, I’ll not go there.

  121. Isistaki says:

    Really, thank you very much. I would like to make a suggestion that, to be possible, would reduce I number of items in grid, and am some tool to organize the inventory that detects the repeated items, exactly equal, so that the resident can erase them. I hope that this can be of aid, although small:). My excuses by my English, are poor and bad.

  122. Shiva Aabye says:

    I’m not so familiar with these crypto things, but couldn’t it be possible to crypt inventory with some really strong keys and the avatar key for instance, so that people could download inv to their local drive and upload them without the chance to give inv to some other player “outworld”?
    Isn’t it possible? If the users are in charge to manage their inv, this discussion would stop forever.

    S.

  123. mimi says:

    @ “If I may, there is one other area of β€œinventory loss” that while not true loss, is equally or more sinister. That is the area of ALTERED PERMISSIONS.”

    yes omg its a big problem:
    this bug leads to people losing their income and Secondlife does nothing about this. Really nothing, ive tried. (our items is now a freebie, thanks secondlife!)

    If you have ever lost or received items with altered permissions please vote here.
    http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-273

  124. HeeLan Beattie says:

    First of all: Glad to see that the problem has been highlited to a blog level. Making SL users aware that LL has noticed the issue.

    I totally agree with #88.
    A local backup of the inventory, would be a nice solution to the problem. Those items tagged as ‘No Copy’ shouldn’t be so hard to give a special tag to the local machine.
    Imagine the possibility to arrange and sort your inventory while offline, and have it uppdated at next logon. You want to go online to do something creative or social, not spend time in a corner sorting and filing your inventories – yes I know I am dreaming, but still.
    When did it become difficult to move files and file structures between computers?

  125. Ryu Darragh says:

    The altered permissions bug is due to the permissions inheritence being one dimensional. The whole object inherits the permissions of all parts by default so if one tiny *piece* of an object is nomod, the whole object can become nomod. Usually, it doesn’t, but it’s occurance is random.

    Usually, it just *looks* like it has become nomod or nocopy, but only a piece is nomod or nocopy.

    There’s a feature request to have such inheritence shown with double parenthesis so if a part of an object is nomod, the object as a whole would show “((No Modify))”, instead of “(No Modify)”.

    As to what to do about objects that have a single component set to “(No Copy)” ? Don’t buy such shoddily made things. To be honest, in my opinion, no copy is a permission best reserved for an entire work of art, like a sculpture, a painting or something like a furniture set, and not for anything else. No transfer is far less obnoxious.

    As to offworld backup, how would you backup objects set to nocopy ? All LL would be able to give you would be a scrambled and encrypted pile of data like a huge encrypted zip file… and then would follow all the “tweeks” out there trying to break it and steal assets.

    If you want to backup items you have full perms on, you can already do that (check SLX) for obkects and textures. It *would* be nice if LL could give us the abiliy to dump and ackup all the sounds and animations and gestures we have perms on, though.

  126. Christine says:

    @120-1-2-3-4-5

    Our favourite world will sure be more friendly and pleasant to live in when such rude, vulgar and thoughtless people, posting such inappropriate and selfish comments will have left it. Do you consider this public place a private arena for your own deliriums and LL your personal servants ?

  127. SunQueen Ginsberg says:

    Sure would be nice to have an in-world backup storage inventory system for avatars to use for their important items!

  128. Wata Klata says:

    These are all good steps, but avoids the central question of LL’s responsibility for the assets of its subscribers. If there is a major bug resulting in the loss of many assets, will LL compensate anyone? If not why not. This puts a severe limit on how much people will trust SL for real commerce.

  129. Limiting “non premium” accounts to 500 items would be a simple way to help ‘inventory clutter’ and provide another reason for people to upgrade to premium – as, let’s face it, there aren’t many right now.

    Broccoli

  130. I always find it amusing how so many people threaten LL having gone back to basic, paying absolutely NOTHING to be here, yet still feel they are entitled to any form of service.

    Remember – if you are not paying anything to Linden Lab, at all, ever, then be grateful you’re allowed to log in at all. $10 a month isn’t that big a deal after all.

    Broccoli

  131. Fluf Fredriksson says:

    Just a note to say thanks to LL for a better blog post than usual. It not only reassures that the problem is being taken seriously, but begins to describe what’s going on behind the scenes to tackle it. That’s the kind of communication people are interested in and appreciate.
    It actually precedes the blog post we’d normally expect that would say something like “we changed something in the last server upgrades to try and fix inventory loss”.

  132. Yann says:

    Inventory loss is the least of my problem.
    I’ve been trying to log in for THREE hours now.
    I succeeded once, but i couldn’t move and when i’ve tried to TP to another location, i’t logged me off.
    Now i’m getting these messages like “Despite our best efforts…”, “The Server didn’t received your login package” and “You are being logged off and cannot log until….blablabla”
    The server now is trying to logg me off for more than 45 minutes.
    Every time i waited for relogging and relog, it adds five more minutes.

    Inventory loss? No problem when i can’t log in to check, lol!

  133. alf lednev says:

    Scenario

    Board meeting of lil Lindens sitting around. Slow realisation that competitors are coming, the residents are restless and paying members ARE leaving. (as an aside the petulant “if you don’t like it here, then leave” blogs are getting fewer it seems? Hint: Don’t EVER tell paying members to leave, they are a finite resource)

    Nervous looking around, some at the table will be at the dole queues soon if something isn’t done to placate the angry paying mob.

    Panic, finally a lil linden raises a hand and says the great unwashed scum have been whining they keep losing things and they don’t buy our line that its their fault”. Maybe we could tell them we will consider the possibility of forming a working party to examine the possibility of forming a project task force to consider looking at whether we should possibly form a committee to prepare a draft memo to notify we want to look at whatever it is simplest to fob them off.

    Result memos like this
    Resident Reported Inventory Loss Analysis
    While we expect to make significant improvements with the projects above, we know that we will not catch all sources of inventory loss. Thus, we are planning on starting a project within the next month to collect and analyze patterns of inventory loss reported by our Residents. This will help us develop use cases of where inventory loss is still occurring and allow us to validate whether we have really fixed various problem areas.

    Be nice if it was written in English Indeed the whole speil is techno impressive babble designed to awe the great unwashed. ie the earlier bit about 900,000 unique logins? not 900,000 different people, the same could be 30,000 same people logging in 30 times each. That makes 900,000 unique logins also . That means only 30,000 active inventories to look at. The figures shrink then. As LL doesnt bother actively helping non paying (free) members and the ratio of free members to paying members is high, the numbers of actual active inventories to be checked would be small. That is not even hinted at.

    For those doing the math of “size doesmatter” in hard drives, if the ratio is 15 free members to ever paying member as (an example only) 30,000 users a day divide by 15 to give 2000 paying members online. A much smaller figure to work with.

    Pity gambling is banned we could run a pool on which lil linden will be going first to the dole lines.

    The proof of the pudding is in the eating, lots of techno babble that very carefully did not commit to anything, expect more of the same as competitors become a viable alternative.

    Finally I’m not sure the bit about “thanking for your patience”, as if there was ever any choice in the matter for users. Screaming the same thing over and over for months by the great multitude of users, and consisently being treated as non people by LL. As late as this week by Robin’s reply to the “Lights are on but nobody is home “blog ( something like that anyways) Robin deliberately did not address or acknowledge the overwhelming single point being shouted. Hmmmmm . Now in effect are we are being thanked for letting LL ignore us all this time? Hmmmm

  134. taff nouvelle says:

    The problem with local inventory backup is that it would then be even easier to copy non copy items. Once the full item description is on your machine, you can do as you like with it, unless it is encrypted by the client, which again is a ver simple solution.

  135. U M says:

    500 for non accounts payment online? what if they do deside to work or build on sl? they need more then 500 items in their asset space. 2000 items mght be alittle more fair.

  136. AllieKat Stovall says:

    I am glad that someone has finally turned an ear to the massive inventory losses that have been happening lately. it started for me about 5 months ago with one of my neko ears…. now almost half of my inventory, and 90% of my own creations are missing or lost. a value of probably over 40K Linden, some of it i have already replaced, when i have the spare linden to do so, but the personal creations cannot be replaced. and those are the ones i am totally upset about. i put a ton of heart and soul into my creations, so when something i make comes up missing i get upset. thank you for finally listening to the masses, and i would lke to think that more people have this problem than you think. most people prolly just delete and replace, and think nothing of it. i bet you half the grid has experienced this in some way over the last 6 months.

  137. U M says:

    @144 this is getting really scary! doesnt LL care? I mean some things can`t be replaced. the nightmare is continue and the oct 31st is coming

  138. Yak says:

    Whole folders dissapeared… nor rezzing/derezzing involved.
    Whenever i need to open my clothing folder the stress makes my heart beat in my troath… Will there still be any thing in there, or will i be completely devastated… I can hardly tka it anymore…. That, and no “Friends Online”……. Where’s the Valium ???? !!!!!

  139. Zee Kuu says:

    The DELETE choice is located next to the WEAR choice in the inventory menu. Is it not possible many residents are choosing DELETE and not knowing it? Maybe you should move the DELETE selection to where it would need to be specifically chosen to execute the action.

  140. Zee Kuu says:

    Limit the amount of inventory non-premium accounts have to less than 1000 items. This will take the burden off the system and still be enough for someone to really get the feel for SL. Having more than 1000 items should be an added benefit of paying for a premium account.

  141. Coon Surya says:

    Just my 2c here….

    I disagree with local drive backup as a viable option for inventory. Some of our inventories are massive. How much space, would such backups take on your local harddrive, considering that you are storing more than just your inventory backups on them (the second life client for example, as well as your default programs and any others you may have purchased). Compounding the problem is the possibility of hackers unlocking permissions.

    Speaking of which, yes permission bugs need to be taken care of. It would also be cool if you improved the interface so that they were easier to set upon object creation.

    I also disagree with those of you who suggest limiting inventories. You don’t think that won’t hurt vendors at all? “I’d love to buy your item, but it seems my inventory is full.” We’d have the same problem we do with group limitations (I’d like to see you do something about that too Lindon Labs! There are plenty of good groups I’d like to support, which I can’t because of the limit) Or just maybe come back to bite you in the bum when enough people complain about it that they limit inventories for everyone?

    Ever consider that the reason some of us don’t pay for our accounts is because things like inventory loss make it kind of JNWI (just not worth it)?

    Kudos to the Lindons, by the way, for stepping up actions to combat this problem. I would very much like to be in this for the long haul, and look forward to seeing Second Life become much more impressive, and these days of increasing public ire and distrust regulated to a chapter in your storied history.

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