Havok4 Beta Preview Refreshed – New Office Hours And New Things To Test!

The Havok4 Beta Preview has been refreshed with new things for you to test! Thanks for your help. Your participation has helped to find and resolve many important issues.

New Office Hours are posted on the wiki Also please remember to review the Havok4 wiki pages for lots of useful information about the Havok4 update as well as testing ideas.

A variety of bugs have been fixed since the October 5th refresh, including:
SVC-744: Physical link limit is now 65
SVC-756: Vehicle drive over prim fails
SVC-785 : Adding/changing a script on an attachment will not properly set the script’s “physics task”
SVC-769: llGetNumberOfPrims always returning 0 in child prim after llCreateLink
SVC-771: llSetBouyancy maxes out at 1.0
SL-56335: Avatar direction does not update on other viewers
SL-57090: Some legal scale operations within a linked set fail

This entry was posted in Bugs & Fixes, Development, Preview Grid. Bookmark the permalink.

74 Responses to Havok4 Beta Preview Refreshed – New Office Hours And New Things To Test!

  1. Darien Caldwell says:

    can’t wait for this to hit the main grid. 🙂

  2. Omnifox Xi says:

    Do want! Cant wait! Keep up the great work!

  3. bobbyb30 zohari says:

    This sounds good so far.

    BUT PLEASE, CHECK IT AGAIN before introducing it to the main grid. I’d hate to see another set of rollbacks and lsl errors.

    -Bobbyb30 Zohari

  4. sweet i love it. Also can’t wait to test new things. I love testing. Like testing if traffic will update the next day or not. I have had the same traffic for two days straight… again… But, lets keep testing please!

  5. Zennia Zenovka says:

    I am getting “Logic Packet never received by server…” errors when attempting to log in. I did manage finally to get logged in, but then tried again, log out then in, and received the same error several times before actually getting in again.

  6. Delta Czukor says:

    Keep in mind that when it does reach the main grid, they won’t roll it out to all sims at once. It’ll start with a select few number of sims for awhile, and expand from there.

  7. Zennia Zenovka says:

    Can’t mistake which region is running which havoc now. LOL Not a bad idea at all. Ugly, but it works. Thanks

  8. Schizm Neutra says:

    I’m glad to see that your plans are moving ahead.

    NOW–if you could PLEASE ‘make it so’–that my avie LOOKS like I expect her to when I come online instead of the ugly little wench named RUTH!

    This is happening 7/10 times I log in, and I never get my look back until HOURS later, perhaps DAYS later. I’m sick of it! I rrrreeeeaaaalllly am!

    NEXT-CAN I PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PPLLEEAASSEE HAVE ACCESS TO MY INVENTORY ITEMS? I’m a writer, I’m engaged in a serious writing challenge in SL–writing a book all of November–70,000 words worth due by December 1st. ALL the notes I need, ALL the practices that I need to turn in are in my Inventory. Fortunately, I write alll the time, so WHEN I’m able to get in I try to work about 4 days ahead. Well, TODAY I need to turn in my papers by midnight–and I my INVENTORY won’t open now.

    IN ADDITION–I can’t transport anywhere unless I log out and log in at the sim I need to be. Can we say inconvenient?

    I have sent in 4 tickets, contacted ‘Help’; Jira, and OTHER ways offered to solve these problems. I have received 2 ‘sorry’ letters from LL–and yet, and yet–same things over and over.

    Never mind lag…that’s ANOTHER issue–I can’t even talk about it anymore. I give up. I just won’t go shopping anymore. I’ve sold half of my land as of last month because I just can’t see having land I can’t use.

    One more thing…I had a friend who was conversing with a druggie yesterday. She was from South America, and had just OD’d…she was looking for help on SL. Yes, I know–how silly of her. In her state of mind she prolly thought there was some way someone here could help her. We all know better, don’t we…there is no LIVE help anymore. Sooo, my question to you at LL is: when one comes in contact with this kind of situation, WHERE does one report it? Where does one go to tell SOMEONE, ANYONE about this problem? Or do we just not care? Wait for it to hit the press someday that someone WANTED help, REAL help–but could not get it? Yes, I’m aware that this isn’t a charity, a hospital–but IF you can…TRY to imagine how YOU would feel if this situation happened to YOU.

    K, over and out–need to TRY to get some REAL writing done tonight IF I can before midnight when its due, without looking like RUTH. Hmmm maybe I should just ditch all my nice clothes that I bought here, and all the other things–just run around like RUTH all the time. Shoot, I might even save me some THOUSANDS of Lindens that way…WHAT A CONCEPT! NO more shopping in lagged malls! heh heh

  9. Zennia Zenovka says:

    Why is Kapor Region NO SCRIPTS? And why does that effect vehicles flying into it?

  10. Rex Cronon says:

    hi everybody.
    there is a new bug on beta:(
    u can scale an object along x,y,z axis at the same time, but u can’t scale it along only one axis. if u try that, the object either changes to original size, or changes to 10x10x10.

  11. AndrewLinden says:

    Woops! Looks like the regions listed as “Havok1” are actually all running on Havok4. I’ll fix it.

  12. 8 Schizm Neutra Says:

    October 10th, 2007 at 5:40 PM PDT
    I’m glad to see that your plans are moving ahead.

    NOW–if you could PLEASE ‘make it so’–that my avie LOOKS like I expect her to when I come online instead of the ugly little wench named RUTH!

    This is happening 7/10 times I log in, and I never get my look back until HOURS later, perhaps DAYS later. I’m sick of it! I rrrreeeeaaaalllly am!

    Do you also get “still downloading clothes”? If so it’s your connection getting bogged down. This happens when im using a piss poor wifi.

  13. Vincent Nacon says:

    @ 8 Schizm Neutra

    which part you didn’t understand?

    BETA GRID… not a Main grid. Don’t expect full running system there.

  14. Andrew Linden says:

    Ok, all of the “Havok1” regions should now actually be running on Havok1 simulators.

  15. Bau Ur says:

    I love the fact that LL is always trying something new. It means we are always plagued with new bugs, but it’s okay with me because that’s the price of exuberant creatvity and being involved in something unique. (It’s the old bugs not getting fixed for months that still dismays and baffles me…..)

    Thanks for the good advance warning on this update. Hope you guys can get some sleep now 🙂

  16. elvisorbit says:

    Looks great. I can’t wait to give it another go today after I get home from work. I am so waiting for this to come to the main grid. You can test it on one of my sims LOL .

  17. U M says:

    Looking forward to this release. Its its really needed!!!!!!!!!!

  18. Keiki Lemieux says:

    When are we going to see a new non-Havok Release Candidate?

  19. @ 8 Schizm Neutra

    What you’re describing sounds like a connectivity issue between your computer and (most likely) the asset servers, which stores your body shape, clothing, and inventory. If your viewer can’t download anything from the asset servers, then yes, you’ll be naked, Ruthed, broke (no L$), and sans-Inventory. I’d suggest checking your firewall/security settings and make sure that SL data is able to get through. For more information, go here: https://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/security.asp

    @ 15 Bau Ur

    In theory, upgrading to Havok4 should solve a lot of the server-side issues that plague SL. As I understand it, we should see better server-side performance when sims are crowded, particularly with large numbers of physical objects, less time dilation (I hope!), and fewer sim crashes in general. Of course, this in addition to more accurate physics simulation. See Sidewinder’s original post here: http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/09/28/havok4-is-here-on-the-beta-grid/

    @ 18 Keiki Lemieux

    Havok has absolutely nothing to do with the view/client/program you run on your computer. Havok is the physics engine that runs on the SL servers. In other words, changes to Havok have nothing to do with the SL program running on your computer. 🙂

  20. 19 Shadow Darius Wolf, Esq. (ShadowD Walcott inworld) Says:

    October 10th, 2007 at 8:48 PM PDT
    @ 8 Schizm Neutra

    What you’re describing sounds like a connectivity issue between your computer

    Samething i said. She’s probably on piss poor dsl or even worse (gasp) dial up. As mentioned on bad wifi i was having that problem. Then go to reg. high speed broadband (cable) i never get that probelm.

  21. Roxi Bingyi says:

    Things have been a little shaky since the last upgrade. Looking forward to replacing it with this one. Keep up the great work!

  22. Karyn says:

    Oh cool! New things to play with! 🙂

  23. Broccoli Curry says:

    “SVC-744: Physical link limit is now 65”

    Excellent, thankyou.

    Broccoli

  24. Pingback: Second Life News for October 11, 2007 « The Grid Live

  25. Ann Otoole says:

    i wonder if it will make flexi prims worth the trouble again. flexi has been messed up with more than 5 avatars in view for months. nothing like .25 fps or less on flexis.

  26. Meni says:

    @23: ““SVC-744: Physical link limit is now 65 Excellent, thankyou. Broccoli”.

    You do understand that the 65 limit was a bug, and is ‘fixed’ now? It is back to 31.

    https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-744

  27. Broccoli Curry says:

    #26. Crud. I withdraw my thanks then, we so need bigger physical linksets – and, for that matter, linksets to be fixed generally so that the size of the prims doesnt matter, and increase from the current distance limit which is far, far too restricting for anything overly useful.

    What really annoys me is when you have a linked set that is ‘only just’ linked, then move it and it all falls apart.

    Broccoli

  28. Aelynn Akina says:

    I didn’t know we had a llSet”Bouyancy” function in the first place, let alone it had a max. 🙂

    “SL-57090: Some legal scale operations within a linked set fail”, more legal trouble, LL?

    Seriousness aside, I wish you’d update the Beta Grid database… since I’m relatively new yet would still like to test scripting on the beta grid.

  29. Inigo Chamerberlin says:

    Isn’t it AMAZING what a little competition on the horizon can do?

  30. SoulMate Girl says:

    Post 8 8 Schizm Neutra

    I know this won’t help if you can’t get your invent for days but it’ll keep your word rate up and ready for when you do get it. Write your dailies offline in TextEdit or .rtf and copy and paste into a notecard. I do that all the time because I have sat writing a huge note for the company I am with and then clicked save and it says to me, “You cannot save this notecard – server sticks its tongue out and wiggles it – nah nah nah nah nah!!!” I do a lot of copying and pasting and saving sometimes! 😉 Works a treat too!

  31. mimi says:

    Wow I can’t wait for havoc 4! It sounds like the best thing coming to secondlife ever!

  32. Jayden B says:

    Good advice SoulMate Girl… and Inigo… keep your sour grapes to the SL-Herald because noone really cares that you were booted from the mentor group.

    It’s interesting to note that devices like dashers (like the omniphaze) don’t work in Havok4, I guess no more pushing myself through walls and floors until the scripters would out the new way to do that very handy thing.

  33. Xilinx Undertone says:

    These new features to test are nice, but when are we going to fix the lag that has crept back into SL?

  34. zillion blackadder says:

    @28 “… I wish you’d update the Beta Grid database… since I’m relatively new yet would still like to test scripting on the beta grid.”
    Me too! Please let us in! I’m only 13 days short …

  35. Callysta Catteneo says:

    Will this further bork the system when it goes online? Ever since the rolling restart on Monday, October 1, there has been WIDESPREAD lag and packet loss, making the SL experience extremely frustrating.

  36. FireFox Bancroft says:

    “SVC-744: Physical link limit is now 65”

    I’m hoping this means what I think it means.

    @35 Thats the whole point of the Havok 4 update, to stabalize the grid, without it you’ll be stuck with a buggy crashy maingrid, be glad LL is working on this update. this has been a long time comming.

    By the way folks they’ve been “heads down” working on this update for quite some time. See https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Havok_4_Beta_Home for why it took so long.

  37. johnny says:

    well i will try and hang on to my last sim see wot its like since the unfair tax ive sold 2 of my 3 sims

  38. Andrew Linden says:

    Sorry, those bugs listed in the main post have the descriptions of the bugs, not the description of the changes. I had claimed that we were NOT changing the max prim count for dynamic objects, but somone noticed that it had indeed changed. It was a bug and I rolled it back to 31.

    There are some known crash modes in the Havok4 simulators still. We’re currently working on the most common one, the only one for which we have a “repro recipe” so far.

  39. zebadee says:

    Test the crap out of it before releasing it please. Another release forcing us neck high in bugs is not something we want, but are used too, make a change.

  40. FireFox Bancroft says:

    @38, thats unfortunate, I was hoping we’d have an actual improvement on physical limits for vehicles but oh well, guess you can’t have it all.

    You try making a Mammoth Tank turret with sculpties, good luck on that. Have fun.

  41. Johnny Mann says:

    Hey Mouselook steer doesn’t work on the Havok 4 beta grid!

  42. Odysseus Fairymeadow says:

    @40 I think the intent here is to try to “achieve parity” with Havok1. No matter how much testing there is that is done deploying Havok4 onto the main grid is going to cause a heck of a lot of problems and failed products, we may lose a couple more individuals like Starax in the mess. Physical limits can be changed later, especially if the engine supports it. Let’s just concentrate right now on getting the system working just as good as Havok1

  43. Jazzman Jibilla says:

    My goodness this is the most polite, non-whining blog thread I’ve seen here in a long time.
    I tried out the Havoc 4 beta…just wandered around watching other folks and it seems that there are perhaps fewer problems with it than anticipated.
    Will prim limits be changed with the “new improved” engine?
    Not particularly looking forward to sculpty tank turrets.

  44. Creem says:

    Actually, I went on the beta grid last night, and the link limit for dynamic objects is _not_ at 31 – it’s actually at 32! So, while we’re down to half the prims that the Havok4 sims previously supported, at least we’ve gained 1 prim compared to before =P

  45. Amanda Ascot says:

    I’ve only checked out the BG once, so far, and except for a few viewer issues which I suspect were on my end since I couldn’t replicate them, I’m pretty happy with my experience there. To be fair, there were only about eight or ten people there, so I didn’t see it under load. Will it really be more stable? Will it handle load better than Havok1? We have these promises, and I’m sure that will be the case. What I did notice is that nearly everything I tried to do worked, and the things that were broken were already known issues. Havok4 is a more capable physics engine than Havok1.

    bobbyb30 @3: This is about the Beta Grid. It’s about testing and re-testing and re-testing some more until we find the bugs. Don’t feel that just because there’s a blog post about it that Havok4 is going to be rolled out onto the Main Grid next week.

    Schizm @8: Contacting Linden Lab for help with an OD is not a solution. On the other hand, your friend could have gone to her map, typed in “supportforhealing” in the Search bar, teleported to the island, and could likely have found one of us there willing to help.

    Bau @15 & Roxi @21: This really isn’t an “advance notice” of an update. They’ve been talking about upgrading Havok1 for a long time. As for fixing the bugs, I’m with you, there, but Havok4 will give the appearance of that, for those residents who don’t understand the difference between “bugs” and other server-side issues (and probably introduce some others, but that’s the price for progress).

    Xilinx @27 (and anyone else complaining about lag and issues that, ultimately, are lag-related): Havok4 will fix a lot of it. This is your tax dollars at work, but it’s just going to take some time before they’re ready to roll it out to the Main Grid. I’ll admit, though, that lag-related problems are making Second Life almost unbearable at times.

    Aelynn @28 & Zillion @28: I have to agree completely! Any time the BG is taken off-line the db should be updated. The inflow of new people into Second Life isn’t always a Bad Thing, however much they contribute to conurrency and, therefore, lag. Many of these people are going to be the new “Old Guard”, since so many of the old-timers are getting frustrated and leaving, and it’s important (this is a PR thing, folks — you know, the thing Linden Lab has to work hardest on to restore its tarnished image) to make them feel like they’re completely “in the loop”.

  46. Aminom Marvin says:

    One unexpected new feature with Havoc 4 is that megaprims have proper collisions. This will be a boon to builders, and I urge that the developers make sure that the new megaprim functionality is retained and stable.

    Other than that, Havoc 4 rocks. Keep up the good work, and continue on the road to a more stable, more powerful SL 🙂

  47. Chronic Skronski says:

    @ Schizm Neutra:

    I hate to go off topic, but since that’s today’s theme…

    You wrote: [i]She was from South America, and had just OD’d…she was looking for help on SL. Yes, I know–how silly of her. In her state of mind she prolly thought there was some way someone here could help her. We all know better, don’t we…there is no LIVE help anymore. Sooo, my question to you at LL is: when one comes in contact with this kind of situation, WHERE does one report it? Where does one go to tell SOMEONE, ANYONE about this problem?”[/i]

    You have got to be kidding. As sad as it is that someone is overdosing, you’re actually blaming Linden Lab because they did not respond in a timely manner to someone overdosing in RL? I have seen some ridiculous complaints over the last year or so, but this one skyrockets to #1. Do you call 911 when someone is griefing you in SL? If you do, would complain if they did not help?

  48. CM says:

    # 47 she wasnt exactly blaming LL

  49. key says:

    I remember American dream,this time,and you may must hope,so,too,to SL.

  50. Well I gave it a whirl and my shield in Avpack stopped working as two guys tried to prove their egos in a no weapons use are. A lady gave me a lift in her car and as we crossed sims we crashed just as bad as anywhere on the regular grid. Finally I was bald, no right shoe, bottom half naked as attachments would not load.
    Sounds like the regular grid to me. In fact worse

  51. johnny says:

    i wanna know when your gonna have the bottle to put everyones fees to the same lvl so its fair

  52. johnny says:

    i would submit a ticket but you dont give me an answer

  53. Stephe Erhler says:

    So Johnny let me get this straight, if LL raised their prices so everyone in the world paid the same as you have to now (basically us paying the tax rate your country charges on top of regular fees even though our country has no VAT tax), you would then buy back the two sims that you sold?

    Or is it you think LL should just raise the prices across the board to subsidize YOUR taxes so you pay less of YOUR tax yourself?

    Or is it you think LL should just pay YOUR taxes out of their pocket and absorb the cost of this with no price increase?

    Of course you don’t want to pay taxes, no one does, but maybe you should complain to YOUR COUNTRY rather than to LL since YOUR COUNTRY is the one charging this tax? Maybe where you live they “hide” the tax from you but it’s still there. I can’t believe anyone would be naive enough to think any bussiness can just absorb 20% tax and it isn’t reflected in an inflated retail price. I see all the time ads for things stating “VAT not included” etc so LL isn’t the only one doing this. I understand your frustration but it’s NOT LL’s fault your country is over taxing you.

  54. Stephe and Johnny we have had the VAT thing ad nauseum now so lets drop it and get back to what this thread is about.
    Either or both of you please go onto the Beta and test Havoc 4, Then write here your experiences so the Lindens can get some feedback on that.
    For your Info I have to pay VAT now on 9 sims but my complaints are not on this thread they are about how Havoc 4 is misbehaving.

  55. Schizm Neutra says:

    going somewhere Says What you’re describing sounds like a connectivity issue between your computer

    Samething i said. She’s probably on piss poor dsl or even worse (gasp) dial up. As mentioned on bad wifi i was having that problem. Then go to reg. high speed broadband (cable) i never get that probelm.

    THIS absolutely is an infuriating statement! How dare you assume any such thing before knowing the facts! Of all the conceited assinine statements to make without knowing ME, or what I have in the way of computers/systems/connections!

    I have NEVER had ‘dsl’ (whatEVER the hell THAT is), or a ‘dial-up’ system!

    I’ve ONLY had CABLE since I got my first computer! BEFORE that, I worked in a college computer lab, where ALL they had was CABLE. When I decided to buy a computer for home after I graduated in 99, I KNEW I did not want dial up, and never even considered something like DSL, cause I don’t know what that is!

    For those who HAVE to use dial-up, or DSL (whatever that is) let’s consider that maybe that’s all they have access to and don’t be so judgmental!

  56. Schizm Neutra says:

    Amanda Ascot Says:Schizm @8: Contacting Linden Lab for help with an OD is not a solution. On the other hand, your friend could have gone to her map, typed in “supportforhealing” in the Search bar, teleported to the island, and could likely have found one of us there willing to help.

    THANKX Amanda sooo very much! I really like having this information to share with people who care about such situations. I never knew that there was this kind of solution, or at least a help of this kind…God Bless and Keep You for your concern, you are a lady with a heart! 🙂

  57. Bobbyb30 Zohari says:

    @38, HOW COULD HAVING A HIGHER PRIM COUNT IN PHYSICAL OBJECTS BE A BUG????!!!!

    Why is it that you constantly undo features which people desire, ie. a stable grid, ratings,octagonal lsl support?

  58. Damen Hax says:

    I don’t know what’s going on.. Has anyone even tried to fly an aircraft or helicopter on the havok grid?.. Am I (and i can only guess how many others) to re-script everything effected?..

    Push in no push is the staple of many combat weapons/HuD’s & accessories. You seem to have solved that issue, however my push in no push seems to instantly crash the sim it’s launched in.

    I really hope you sort out that issue, as you will have a fair few randoms running around (owners of my HuD) crashing sims effortlessly and unwittingly.

    I most certainly can wait for this to become the main physical laws of SL, if it means my vehicles and weapons function normally.

    Right now my ‘KILL’ button (which pushs in no push areas) instantly crashes a sim, it would not be difficult drop it into an object and add a timer.

    In case you missed my moan~ My vehicles don’t work properly, but my kill command kills a sim now.. ugh

    Does anyone there actually test stuff? Took me 2 mins to find several probs.

  59. Schizm Neutra says:

    Chronic Skronski Says:…
    ‘You have got to be kidding. As sad as it is that someone is overdosing, you’re actually blaming Linden Lab’…NOT!

    My statement was: when one comes in contact with this kind of situation, WHERE does one report it? Where does one go to tell SOMEONE, ANYONE about this problem?”

    IF you detected a note of blame there, it was ONLY in reference to NOT having a LIVE HELP situation anymore. I absolutely hate it that we are not able to get a real, live person to discuss situations with anymore. I think it’s on the level of telephone calls that yu make where you have to go to this number and then that number to get to what you need! SURE these systems are OK for usual, normal, banal situations like paying a bill–BUT there ARE times when a REAL, LIVE person can be of much more help in defining WHAT and how to access emergency help.

    Chronic Skronski Says: (contin.)…because they did not respond in a timely manner to someone overdosing in RL? I have seen some ridiculous complaints over the last year or so, but this one skyrockets to #1. Do you call 911 when someone is griefing you in SL? If you do, would complain if they did not help?
    I don’t think griefing even comes close to a person overdosing in RL! AND believe me if anyone knows about griefers I do! I can tell you this, I have had enough experience with griefers and the response I got from LL in regard to those griefers to say that in that ONE respect, LL has a great turnaround time. They take these things SERIOUSLY, and I applaud them for that. I cannot in any way understand how you can equate the two situations: Griefing in SL and Overdosing in RL–the two are NOT comparable on ANY level. YOU and I know this! So please don’t try to play me like that. As far as I know, and you should too…REAL LIFE does not equate to VIRTUAL LIFE in many, many ways. A Real Life problem will ALWAYS get MY attention first, how about YOU?

    THIS is what I asked:
    ‘Sooo, my question to you at LL is: when one comes in contact with this kind of situation, WHERE does one report it? Where does one go to tell SOMEONE, ANYONE about this problem?”

    I MEANT: To whom can one go when a REAL LIFE situation, this urgent, intrudes into Virtual Reality? Maybe I just wrote it wrong. I should have said it in just the way I now did, please forgive me for being excited, scared for this person and anxious in having an answer for a RL problem that bled into SL. I did get an answer as noted in the posting above. Now we BOTH know better, K? 🙂

  60. Michael Timeless says:

    Just a brief note
    We often complain about problems but one thing I’ve noticed that might be helpful..or not.

    Working for an airline I travel extensively. I’ve noticed that when I’m at home in Illinois I have virtually no problems either on my desktop or laptop (IBM X60) whether I am wireless or directly connected via cable modem.
    However, when I travel I’ve found that some cities Dallas comes to mind it is virtually impossible to get a solid connection. It doesn’t matter if I’m wired or wireless. Manchester is another city where connections are almost impossible. I know that several people here have commented on machine type and wireless connections and decried both as bad. Yet, cities like Raleigh, Phoenix, San Diego and Baltimore I get phoenomenal results with the same equipment and wireless. Is it possible that where you connect determines how bad the packet loss is when connecting?
    I wouldn’t bring this up in this particular venue except that I’ve now tried multiple areas in each of these cites so maybe someone at LL might want to consider checking WHERE the failures are occuring.

    Mike

  61. les says:

    58 Damen Hax Says:

    In case you missed my moan~ My vehicles don’t work properly, but my kill command kills a sim now.. ugh

    Does anyone there actually test stuff? Took me 2 mins to find several probs.

    les says : There are countless ways to combine code and physics. For sure a lot of them will not have the same dynamic interaction and will “break”. You can’t expect the dev team to test the engine with every item and code combination out there…

    Just about everything I make will get skanked by this. I’ll fix it all with a smile. However, not everyone is a scripter. A lot of content is made with cut and paste, free or underground scripts. This community will take a hit, but it will surely spring back with better scripts to use with the improved physics in a short while.

    So…should we lock our physics down to 2002 levels so cory linden’s motorcycle keeps working untill the end of time?

    I hope not.

    Perhaps it’s time to run legacy sims? Let those who wish to live in the past do so. Allow old content to run forever in old sims. Allow sim owners the option of updating or stagnation.

    Personaly, i’ll be first in line to offer my sims as test beds when H+ hits the main grid.

    This is REAL improvement. This is base foundation stuff and much needed!

    i ❤ andrew

  62. Sidewinder Linden says:

    To Les, Damen and all…

    We have done a variety of tests before putting this public preview out for your testing. As Les said though, it is pretty impossible to test all possible ways that scripting and physics could interact. We noted that vehicles are known to still have problems, and were asking for your help in finding cases where they did not work to help with fixing them.

    I just talked to Damen in-world, and he was helpful in providing a couple of sample items for us to test with (thanks Damen!). The best way we all can help to make this successful to is to log issues in the public issue tracker, along with a quick step-by-step on how to create the reported problem. I and the team will be looking through every single reported issue, prioritizing them, and fixing as many of the high priority ones as possible.

    When you post issues, please choose the “2. Second Life Service – SVC” project, set the Issue Type fo “Bug” and choose “Physics” for component. This will ensure that we see the bug report in our regular internal triage process.

    Thanks again for your help!

    Sidewinder Linden
    Program Manager

  63. Damen Hax says:

    You make a good point les~

    “So…should we lock our physics down to 2002 levels so cory linden’s motorcycle keeps working untill the end of time?”

    I agree with what you mean, but Ive always been one of those that question “Why can’t we play ps1 games on a ps2 console?.. is all that time and plastic to be trashed, nothing more than a log in the eternal flame of history?..”

    I often wonder if LL has a group of randoms testing things and reporting odd issues/bugs, or if it is all done by employees. Perhaps forming a group of people completely separate from LL, solely for reporting issues/bugs and related things. Key point -non-public-
    Why form a specific group?
    – Reading through the logs for valid/valued information will no longer be a chore.
    – More likely to become aware of things randoms are not willing to post in a public forum
    – I’m sure it could be done with zero funds – always a bonus
    – Imagine the time saved~
    etc etc.

    In short, it seems to me LL is not plugged in(of sorts), or does not have enough people trying enough things. keyword being ‘or’

    I have a small group of people test things i do, often varied results but thanks to who they are, i can count on what they say (often making improvements aka sharing knowledge), and i don’t have to filter through a ridiculously long customer support log of mundane issues.

    How ‘exactly’ SL works is far beyond my skill(for now), and i have nothing but respect for anyone tasked with ironing out the flaws, I run a large closed network & can relate to the random things that pop up from nowhere and baffle even the most advanced network professionals. “It’s the interNIC’s fault”

    I have a feeling the slight anger in my last post may have had something to do with my super speed not being so super anymore- o so many hours.. ~ hears the sound of a toilet flushing

  64. notagambler says:

    #58 “”Right now my ‘KILL’ button (which pushs in no push areas) instantly crashes a sim, it would not be difficult drop it into an object and add a timer.””

    for what do you need push in no-push-areas?

  65. notagambler says:

    btw. where can i get the following?

  66. pointside Sunbelter says:

    AIRCRAFT/VEHICLE PROBLEMS!

    Before I panic too badly and this may be covered in some of the known current bugs but I didn’t see anybody mention it, but so far, all aircraft if you are lucky to be able to take off, cannot land without being violently bounced around. Helicopters (And I tried one from every builder in SL in different beta sims) experience a violent lift off of being thrown around, then if you try to land, the second you touch the ground you get thrown on your side always to the LEFT. Prim ground and terrain.

    And some airplanes that have the ability to taxi, are able to taxi to the right but not the left, the aircraft will try to tip over on its side to the left instead of turning left.

    Some helicopters when you go forward (Jillian Callahan Civilian Mash) after hovering will tilt backward instead of tilting forward, so when you bank left or right, your chopper is leaning backwards and looks funny in the turn. Not all helicopters do that.

    And once in the air the aircraft are jittery even in an empty sim. They won’t bank and turn smoothly at all. Cars seem to be jittery too.

    Very scary for someone who owns a lot of vehicles. If this isn’t fixable in the Havoc then I suppose the builder would have to upgrade the vehicles to fix the problems. Most give free upgrades but will they all?

  67. Sidewinder Linden says:

    Don’t panic pointside… Vehicles were known to not be working fully correctly when we posted the public preview, and we are looking for examples of vehicles that are misbehaving so that we can correct the problems on the simulator side as much as possible (so that vendors do not have to rework them).

    Please post your findings on the public issue tracker with the specifics for a few cases so that we can make sure they are resolved. The goal is to break as little existing content, vehicles included, so this feedback is important to “getting it right” through the beta process.

    HOW TO POST BUGS ON THE SECOND LIFE PUBLIC ISSUE TRACKER:
    The Issue Tracker is here: https://jira.secondlife.com.

    To log the issues that you have found, click the “Log In” button in the upper right, and login using your normal Second Life login, then click “Create New Issue”, and choose:
    * “2 – Second Life Service – SVC” for Project
    * “Bug” for Issue Type.
    On the next detail screen please be sure to choose “Physics” as the Component, so that the bug will get to our team as quickly as possible.

    Thanks! /Sidewinder

  68. Andrew Linden says:

    #58 Damen – I’d like to get a copy of your KILL object that crashes regions. If you drop a copy on my profile in the Havo4 preview I’ll use it to figure out what is going wrong. Alternatively, if you have a region name and an approximate time when you crashed it I could find the relevant core dumps and try to learn the cause that way.

    Similarly, I’m interested in getting copies of any broken vehicles so I can use them when fixing the bugs. Just drop a copy on my profile in the preview.

  69. pointside Sunbelter says:

    Ok Sidewinder I will spend some time this week testing a few of them and post them in the pubic issue tracker. I feel better already 🙂

  70. pointside Sunbelter says:

    Ok Andrew, I would be glad to give you all the copies that I have, but most of my vehicles are copy but no transfer. I could leave them somewhere for you in guest pilot mode maybe as long as autoreturn is off. I am willing to help with this in anyway that I can.

  71. DR Dahlgren says:

    I have gone several times to Beta to test, but you have allowed Doug Donovan to continue to bury the place in objects to the point were testing is not practical. I do not understand why someone would leave all that crap there when they were done, or why LL would allow it to remain, but until Beta is a viable testing envirionment for ALL residents, not just a select few griefers, any information gained is questionable at best.

    DRD

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  73. Vishis Hax says:

    Boats are all screwed up on Havok4 beta grid. Steering is all out of control. I assume this will be fixed prior to production rollout.

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