Second Life Havok4 Beta Preview Temporarily Offline

Some odd content corruption has been discovered on the Second Life Havok4 Beta Preview, and we have decided to take the preview offline to investigate the causes. We hope to have the Second Life Havok4 Beta Preview available again on Monday. Thanks for your participation in the preview, and we are working to resolve this issue as quickly as possible.

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70 Responses to Second Life Havok4 Beta Preview Temporarily Offline

  1. Durk Duncan says:

    1st post

  2. Uccello says:

    Just the other day I saw another wonderful build that depended on the use of so-called Super Prims (or Huge Prims) that go beyond the nominal 10x10x10 limit. It occurred to me that since it was a “bug” in Havok 1 that allowed them to be created they might :::poof::: with Havok 4 (or the just release v5, if implemented). Any ideas on this?

  3. Vincent Nacon says:

    ….*sighs* no one cares about first post.

    Anywho, I’m sure this was related to objects named “atom” randomly appearing everywhere that is actually linked to other people’s object.

  4. Heymariou says:

    This seems like a great system so far however ive noticed something with collision models, they dont update on parameters until you create the object(either shift drag a copy or just create a copy) so hollow objects aren’t hollow until you remake them. I noticed this while building a few WORKING medieval weapons such as a battering ram and my current project a Trebuchet. The Rams tip i had made tapered but decided to make ti flat once more to find that it didn’t update the collision model, i could walk through the area that used to be tapered. Once i created a copy of it, that problem was fixed. So im assuming the problem occurs when you change parameters, it doesn’t update the collision model just the visible model

  5. Neural says:

    The havoc4 system is amazing when it comes to what the sims can handle. One of the Sandboxes had 15001 objects in it (according to About Land). Given, moving around was kinda like being in molasses, but the sim did not crash.
    A couple suggestions.
    First, to users: If you are going to try and see just how much a sim can take when using Havoc4, please make your objects set to be temporary OR clean up after yourselves. (temporary is preferable, it’s much faster, trust me, experience speaking).
    Second, to Linden Lab: Until the test with Havoc4 is over, can you please set the return time for sandboxes to 1 hour and not 5. This compensates for those who do not use temporary prims and do not clean up after themselves.
    When you’ve got people filling sims with physics enabled objects, 5 hours is a bit long to wait for a cleanup.

  6. Neil Claxton says:

    Hopefully huge prim will be fixed, they have been a major help in building things. I don’t expect them to work any more properly than they have, ie, holes and cut paths not working as expected, but 20x20x0.5 is a very useful size.

    Whatever happened to wind and light? or whatever the new sky render was…

    anyways… huge prim continuing to work would be nice.

  7. Valor says:

    I saw some ‘Mega-prim’ on the havok preview. They appeared to even have a proper physics profile *shock*. Large hollow ones actually worked as domes with hollow insides..

  8. @#6, Neil Claxton:
    “Wind and Light” 😉 updates can be found regularly at http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Torley_Linden/Project_updates 😀

  9. mimi says:

    Ive seen a guy testing creating 10.000 moving objects in havoc4 and it didn’t crash! Its great to see improvements will happen!

    OMG I can’t wait for this to happen.. yay! Light on the horizon ^^

  10. Votslav Hax says:

    great job lindens, positive previews even with the glitches people are responding w/anticipation versus doom and gloom.. hooray…

  11. GC Continental says:

    15001? 10000? um… are we getting more prims?!?

  12. Decker Burt says:

    Content corruption?… The Havok4 beta is great. There are still some minor annoyances but overall I think that its a great improvement. Thousands of large mobile objects and quite a few people in the sim and it doesn’t crash; Beautiful.

  13. Atashi Toshihiko says:

    The only wierd content action I saw was when I linked about 130 prims that were quite far apart. It’s a big non-moving boat that’s four separate objects in the main grid, but in the havoc-4 beta I was able to link them all into a single object. However, about half the prims changed position and rotation upon linking so it became a big deconstructed modern-art version of a boat. Looked great as an art project, but not good as a boat 🙂

  14. concerned says:

    I wouldnt expect more prims the whole idea of this was to make sims less laggy and to have less crash conflicts as far as i know but maybe linden could confirm or deny this.i support faster and less crashes as to filling already laggy parcels/sims with more lag seeing as server strain is already an issue.

  15. Vincent Nacon says:

    GC Continental Said: “15001? 10000? um… are we getting more prims?!?”

    Uhh no… 15,000 is the same prim limit we’ve had before.

  16. andrewlinden says:

    Yes, the main reason the Havok4 preview is closed is that some objects have been able to link to other objects when they should not have — totally breaking permissions. I tracked one instance down to see when it happened and it appears to be related to a crash way back when the Havok4 preview was first opened. Unfortunately, the core-dump from that crash has been cleaned up so I can’t examine it.

    Here’s a summary of the bug fixes that are currently done:

    * Fixed a crash mode when unlinking an object with Actions (hover, buoyancy, vehicle) that were created by a child prim (thanks to Seifert Surface for the repro recipe object)
    * ground vehicles no longer snag on the terrain
    * SVC-759 llStopMoveToTarget() now activates the object that may have become inactive (thanks to Eyana Yohkoh for entering the bug)
    * SVC-752 linking multi-prim objects together no longer scrambles prim rotations (thanks to Ryozu Kojima for entering the bug, with youtube video)
    * Avatars sit a little better… sometimes

    Of note is that crash fix. I think there is only one other crash mode that we’ve seen but I don’t have a known way to reproduce it. It would be great if someone could figure out how to crash a Havok4 region next time we open the preview.

    So… this is my plan for tomorrow:

    I’m going to refresh all the regions in the Havok4 preview from their counterparts in Second Life. Then, we’ll open up the preview again and let people bang on it. I’ll be keeping an eye on the regions watching for the first crash. When that happens I’ll examine the pieces as well as the content when it comes back up to see if anything has become corrupted.

    If we don’t notice any corrupted content all of Friday then we’ll leave the preview open over the weekend. If I am able to fix the crash and corruption bug(s) then we’ll update the preview again and leave it up. If we still get content corruption but can’t track down the cause, then we’ll close the preview at the end of the day and resume work on Monday.

  17. concerned says:

    This has been a long time comingperhaps it needs stress testing too,maybe a blog intiving people to head on would be in order at a certain time and date when you resolve this issue before introducing it to the grid?

  18. andrewlinden says:

    Regarding megaprims… I haven’t had a chance to re-enable them in Havok4 (as long as they are smaller than 256m on all sides). You can consider it a “bug” that needs to be fixed before we can deploy it to Second Life. Proper megaprim support will not be in Havok4 (that is you won’t be able to make new megaprims) until I can solve the “my neighbor’s object overlaps onto my parcel and I don’t like it” problem, since megaprims just make it worse.

    Regarding extra large link distances… I forgot to mention above that the link algorithm has been totally redone (again) and is much closer to what you have now, just a little bit more lenient.

  19. concerned says:

    Andrew would there be any adverse effects you know of from using mega prims in havok 4?I do not use any myself but am often asked about the physics of them now.

  20. concerned says:

    Reason i ask is i am often asked to build clubs/malls/spaceships etc and people ask why i dont use huge prims i always say it is because i cant be sure they will run or have an adverse effect when the physic engine is updated.

  21. omnia spectre says:

    sorry to take up a slot, but i need an answer ASAP! this avi has no trouble logging on and has a bandwith rate of 800 kbps. my alt won’t fully load and has a rate of <10 kbps 😦 PLEASE CAN SOMEONE HELP?

  22. andrewlinden says:

    There is a theoretical problem with megaprims in Havok4. The short summary is this: if you use megaprims then you risk making the simulator run as slow as Havok1 for the general collision tests (that is, ignoring any deep-think problems where Havok1 would have blocked — in other words… pretend everything is boxes when comparing the performance of the two)… but probably not.

    Here are the details:

    Havok4 has a 3-layer collision culling system. Groups of touching objects are managed by data structures called “simulation islands” (SI). When two SI’s meet they are merged into one. When the objects in an SI spread out the SI is broken into two or more.

    Within each SI the objects are tested by the “broadphase” (BP) check which compares axis aligned bounding boxes (AABB’s) around each object. The result of the BP is a list of potentially colliding pairs of object which are passed to the “narrowphase” (NP) where the details of the collisions are computed. The NP is somewhat expensive to compute, so the SI and BP stages are optimization tricks to make collision testing fast.

    If you use a megaprim you will tend to collapse all of the SI’s into one. At that point, you’re left with the BP which will have to check all N objects in the region against all the N-1 other objects. So there will be a large number of false positives in the input to the NP, which translates into “lag” — how much is not clear, this is all theoretical.

    Ok, so it isn’t quite as bad as Havok1 in this case. Havok4 uses much tighter AABB’s and its NP code is supposed to be a little faster than Havok1’s. Also, using megaprims holds a promise of a significantly smaller memory footprint which usually translates to making things run a little faster.

    My guess at this point is… megaprims probably don’t cause noticably more lag that an equivalent pile of smaller pieces that achieve the same shape. But, I haven’t tested it.

  23. Neural says:

    Wow. Thanks for the details on that Andrew. Explains a lot about some of the stuff I saw the other night. The only one I’m not sure of yet is that with large volumes of moving physical prims, there are some that will simply stop. They will register and show as physical, but act non-physical until you remove/delete an unspecified number of other physical prims. It seems somewhat random though. Am wondering if this has to do with the prims being dropped off the list created by the BP check.

  24. WarKirby Magojiro says:

    Thanks for the info, Andrew there are so many nice builds that utilise them, though. Losing them would be a terrible thing.

    You might want to check out this sim:

    http://slurl.com/secondlife/Greenies%20Home%20Rezzable/128/128/0

    It’s a giant house, designed to make people the size of mice. It’s a truly incredible place to behold, and megaprims make it possible.

  25. WarKirby Magojiro says:

    A thought. Perhaps it would be good to not allow megaprims to link SI’s, if possible. Ie, object x which is colliding with a megaprim, would be classed as an SI with that megaprim, but would not form an SI with object Y which is also touching the megaprim, unless X and Y were directly touching.

    This would result in the megaprim straddling many SI’s but would avoid the collapsing into one scenario.

  26. Jessica Veressi says:

    Proper megaprim support will not be in Havok4 (that is you won’t be able to make new megaprims) until I can solve the “my neighbor’s object overlaps onto my parcel and I don’t like it” problem, since megaprims just make it worse.

    Perhaps Second Life can IM object owner every 10 min or so with
    “your object “Object” at Disyl 132-67-67 is overlapping the plot boundry line” (only applicable if the two plots have differnt owners)

  27. Abigail Merlin says:

    @26 nice idea but potential for lag creating griefer tools, imagine hundereds of objects being scanned that overlap borders for it’s owner just to find out it can’t IM the owners because the objects are deeded (objects can’t IM groups as far as I know)
    It could potentialy become a timebomb if the scanning is done once per 10 minutes, creating simwide lagspikes every 10 minutes or even crashing the sim 10 minutes after startup.

  28. U M says:

    We really need this client to work correctly I don`t care how long this beta client takes to make it work a correct manner.

    U sagi M usashi

  29. Psistorm Ikura says:

    Theres a suggestion I have come up, regarding the point of megaprims:
    I see how LL restricted making new megaprims, since a physical 256x256x256 cube would collide with the entire sim at once, killing physics performance. however my idea is this:
    allow the creation of megaprims up to a certain size (I dont know whats practical. 50x50x50 meters? maybe more?), BUT have another critical size limit for any of the 3 axis, above which you cant turn it physical anymore, for example 20x20x20. this way people can still save prims on their builds on large constructions, but you will quite solve the issue with physical megaprims bouncing around slowing everything down.

    As for the parcel overlap issue – I see how this is a tricky thing, I wish I had a good solution for this, really. It would be neat to make a bounding box based (as opposed to pivot point) check whether the prim is on the home parcel. but this would require the adjacent parcels to not allow other prims to enter them

  30. william Fish says:

    Resolution of Lawsuit

    I’m just totally amazed by how LL feels that they have to be so PC about everything.

    I’ve been following this case since it broke out as i knew marc braggs (was a neighbor of his in world). This is actually the first time i’ve seen LL post anything about thise case on the blog space. What for? I have no clue.

    But after doing more research i discovered something you all might be interested in…. to the best of my knowledge this was never posted on this blog.

    “A Pennsylvania judge has ruled that Linden Lab’s terms of service for Second Life residents are not legally binding, according to court papers filed on Wednesday.” http://secondlife.reuters.com/stories/2007/05/31/judge-rules-against-one-sided-tos-in-bragg-lawsuit/

  31. Tegg B says:

    Coo AAndrew, good to here feedback on the project, new stuff is cool 🙂

  32. Tegg B says:

    Bzzt boring lawsuit yak elsewhere please dude

  33. william Fish says:

    i would tegg but they closed comments. btw thanks for the teleport to greenies house. totally cool place and great use of illegal i mean mega prims. 😛 Very awsome detail though!

  34. Traffic Update says:

    hi there,

    is there any chance the measuring of the traffic will start again? I think this week there was only 1 refresh. What´s the point of paying campers & throwing parties? Please make a statement to that even if it´s off topic here.

    Kind Regards

  35. Traffic Update says:

    Also several people complaint they couldn´t buy stuff after the rolling restart. Great Great Great

  36. william Fish says:

    traffic update.

    whew and i thought it was my own crappy pre 2006 sim that was acting up again. My traffic stats havnt changed except for two days ago. Glad you said something.

  37. Ponk Bing says:

    Back on the subject with Havok (which is great btw).

    I’ve noticed that it doesn’t see hollowed objects, a ball can’t be dropped into a hollowed cube, it just sits on top. Will this come later or is it an oversight? It makes some of the more exciting things that could be possible impossible.

    Anyway, great work – keep it up!

  38. WarKirby Magojiro says:

    “What´s the point of paying campers”

    You just answered your own question. It’s pointless. Stop doiung it. You’re killing SL, and stifling creativity.

    Bragg Case.

    Comments are closed, so take it somewhere else. Like here:
    http://www.sluniverse.com/php/vb/showthread.php?t=1076

    Posting in the blog comments about it is selfish, and ignorant. We’re here to comment about havok, and your off topic post wastes the limited 100 comments.

    Now on topic. Someone suggested limiting physics. I’m not seeing how that would work, though. Things don’t have to be physical to collide. As long as they’re not phantom, objects will collide whether or not they’re dynamic.

    Another option, if possible., Might be to have them treated in the same manner as terain, perhaps. The ground being solid doesn’t collapse all the SIs, so there msut be some mechanism for an exception. If that could be applied to prims over 10m in any dimension..

  39. Ryozu Kojima says:

    @#4
    Thanks for the observation. Info like that is precisely what the dev team needs to fix things. jira.secondlife.com is where that info should go. I’ll go ahead and repost for you, since there’s already an issue open about that problem. (Full credit given of course)

    @#13
    That’s a known issue that, actually, they fixed today. Unfortunately, they had to bring the beta back down after only a few hours. =(
    It is fixed though. =D

  40. Blake Sachs says:

    * ground vehicles no longer snag on the terrain

    Excellent. I’ve been on the beta grid only shortly, but as a car maker that’s something that really bugged me. I have high hopes that Havok 4 and Mono will bring back life to the roads of the main grid. I used to drive around the mainland for hours when I started with SL, but nowadays it’s so unattractive that you hardly see anyone on the streets

  41. Shifte Benedek says:

    Andrew, am able to reproduce Havok4 simulator crash at will, IM in world or Email when you would like some help with this.

  42. DR Dahlgren says:

    It really would be nice to see vehicle handoff between sims improve, though I believe in an earlier blog it was stated that there would not be a noticable difference there.

    I love creating new vehicles, but with the banlines, 16m ad pillars along the roads, and signs that violate the protected road or water way (one in Clunn has been there for 8 mths though AR’s filed), havoc won’t help the use of vehicles at all. Sad

    I would also like to ad my 2 cents in on the dumping of 1000’s of objects into a beta sim. Great, test away… BUT CLEAN UP YOUR CRAP AFTERWORDS!!!!!

    If you see someone who has totally trashed a sim with litter under the guise of testing and is no longer present, PLEASE FILE AN AR ON THEM!!! Probably won’t do much good, but hey, if enough are filed, maybe at least the offender will not be allowed back on Beta.

    DRD

  43. Blinders Off says:

    Greetings Andrew, Torley and the rest.

    I have 2 thoughts in all this:

    1. 64m megaprims in Havok4 would be a godsend to builders. IMO, minor problems experienced with such would be negligible when compared with the major advantages to being able to build an entire 4096m floor with one prim.

    2. This has to do with proper communications between Linden Lab and its customers, and this is major folks…

    For as long as I’ve been a member of SL, people have complained and complained about LL failing to upgrade from Havok1 to later versions as they came out. They complained and complained, and NOT ONCE did I ever hear Linden Lab say, “We’re working on such upgrade constantly”… thus letting people know it’s a project in progress.

    No, instead the only word ever heard from LL is, “Havok4 is on a back burner” meaning– we have no intention on doing anything about it at this time. Which resulted in disgruntled customers.

    Why didn’t Linden Lab simply say, “It’s off the back burner and is a current project in development, but it’s a big project so please be patient and give us time to do it right.”????

    Communications people. It’s all about communications. Communications between LL and its customers. Communications in IMs that actually work. Communications in Group Notcies (why can’t we send notices to SPECIFIC ROLES within groups?).

    Communications… communications… communications (the cry goes on……)

  44. andrewlinden says:

    My current idea for solving the problem with objects overlapping parcels is to allow the simulator to ask the question “Is this object colliding with that parcel?” and then allow the parcel owner to return that object to its owner, or to move out until it is no longer overlapping. I should be able to use the physics engine to do this — I could give the parcel boundaries momentary collision bodies and execute an asynchronous collision query.

    Once object-parcel collisions were working and could be used to override the objects’ “moveable permissions” in certain cases, then I could also use them to enforce parcel permissions during real-time placement of objects. That is, placing an object such that it violates your neighbor’s parcel permissions would just be impossible — the simulator could reject your request to move it there. At that point it would be possible to open up prim sizes and let you make almost any size you wanted, as long as it fit within the parcels on which it is allowed to exist. Up to a limit, of course, I would probably limit the scale dimensions to an absolute maximum of 256.

    These are just some ideas I’ve been kicking around. If they ever get done they’ll be after Havok4 is stable and delivered.

  45. Vincent Nacon says:

    Please think about limiting the max size to 512. Sim builders would need those. Thanks for update info.

  46. andrewlinden says:

    @43 The reason we did not talk much about the Havok4 work in progress was because in the past we had pre-announced Havok2 only to put it on the shelf. We were over-promising, and under-delivering, which is why the Havok2 project was legendary vaporware. This time around we figured we would try to stay quiet about it until it was near completion.

    Despite that goal, over the last 10 months a few people have mentioned that we were working on a physics engine upgrade. In January Cory Linden held a town-hall meeting and said that we were working on it — he said something to the effect of “it is almost done” because right before he had said it he asked me, “Is it almost done” and I had said something like “Yes, two weeks” because I had thought I was that close. Ian Linden mentioned it a few months ago in a blog post about making the system more reliable. It has been talked about in various Linden office hours.

    I don’t view the Havok4 project as a communication disaster.

  47. Neil Claxton says:

    hmmm mega prim… regular prim can extend out of the owners land too. Maybe there should be a snap to property lines sort of thing and your prim can’t extend out of your land unless the land it extends into allows object entry or something.

  48. Zennia Zenovka says:

    Seems like all I do is freeze and crash, freeze and crash. I swing my camera, freeze and crash. I move quick so my view changes quickly, freeze and crash. Main grid, beta grid, freeze and crash.

    I notice a friend has a non-voice client running that does not do this, but the voice clients all do. I have spoken to many in-world who are experiencing this. I have voice disabled but that does not help.

    How about we get some of the MAJOR bugs finished, then worry about improvments??

  49. Ryozu Kojima says:

    @#48
    It may be that you are overtaxing your system. A good idea would be to turn your draw distance down, and choose the next setting lower for your video memory.

  50. Neil Claxton says:

    @48
    That sounds like a video card driver thing too. Vista?

  51. Jaxx Tardis says:

    @44
    I like your ideas and would love to see them implemented, however there would be need to take into account individuals who share builds but not groups. I know several places where the residents have come together to build walkways, roads, rivers, etc that cross parcel boundaries.

  52. Amanda Ascot says:

    Havok4 is probably (potentially) the most exciting thing to happen to Second Life — if it works “as advertised”, and I think the Linden Team is going to make it happen. Thanks for being communicative on the issues, here, Andrew. I’ve been following this development with great interest, even though I admit to not fully understanding all of the possible implications of a Havok4-enabled Grid.

    I’m also pleased at the open discussion of megaprims, since I feel these are an essential part of Second Life. Get that parcel overlap issue solved and this will open up the Grid to more widespread use of megaprims with Havok4, especially if we will be able to actually create them. It will also solve a plethora of problems already existing ubiquitously on the Grid.

    Vincent @45: What purpose would a 512m megaprim have? A sim is only 256m to a side. A 512m square would cover four sims! There are legitimate reasons to rez a 256m square over a sim, but covering multiple sims? I’m sure there are some technical issues with regards to inter-sim communication of events that would come into play with something like that, as well.

    Andrew, just a quick question. Would it be possible to allow us to directly create miniprims, so that we wouldn’t have to resort to prim torture and the resulting tricky bounding problems that introduces (the same ones we have to deal with regarding megaprims, by the way)?

  53. Leonro Sands says:

    About the collision problem with big prims:
    I believe that the majority of big prims is not constantly moving around, so for the collision detection one might try to subdivide these static big prims into smaller pieces (only on the server for preselecting collusion faces). If you use a simple subdivision then I think you have to deal with much less faces for the narrow phase.

    The classification into static/not_static can be updated with suitable events (with a delay in the dynamic->static transition).

    This procedure does not solve the problem but it might reduce the impact somewhat.

  54. Zennia Zenovka says:

    My video is fine and up to date driver wise. NVidia 7600 and XP. Only probs I have are SL. I received a copy of the client that is pre voice, hacked I guess to pass the version test. It works fine. Again, I know tons of ppl who are seeing this exact same problem, and some have NVidia and some have Radeon, etc. Only common thing I can find, is the clients late enough to have voice integrated. This includes the beta grid client.

    Thanks for the feedback. I will see if it is in the bugs reporter.

  55. @41: Shifte Benedek, if it is an object, just pass a copy of it to an appropriate Linden, with a notecard describing how to use it to crash the sim.


  56. I should be able to use the physics engine to do this — I could give the parcel boundaries momentary collision bodies and execute an asynchronous collision query.

    At that point it would be possible to open up prim sizes and let you make almost any size you wanted, as long as it fit within the parcels on which it is allowed to exist.

    So the other parcels would be treated like solid walls. That could work. Immediately though the thought comes to mind about why not take some of the strain off of the servers and enforce object placement in the client side on a real time basis? Instead the servers can do momentary checks at certain intervals, and at their own pace, so as not to bog down the frame rates.

    A problem I do see with this though is that parcels will need to have a new permission system added so that objects from trusted individuals can overlap. For instance renting out parcels in a sim, the sim’s owner may have objects hanging over those parcels which are part of a larger build. Even though he’s renting out the parcel, it’s still his sim, and he’d want the build (say… a walkway with a park built around it between two buildings) to stay together.

  57. shockwave yareach says:

    Allow NonPhysical and NonScript Megaprims to be created for 20L each up to 100x100x100m size and no larger. Voom, you have a new revenue stream, we can save lots of prims, people can’t fill the sim and your server works less.

    Simple

  58. HealthStar says:

    @ 57

    I’ll take a 5 pack please.

    Sweet idea.

  59. Jaxx Tardis says:

    It’s not a simple matter of denying ‘physical’ status to a megaprim, even when it’s not moving its collision pattern needs to be calculated, otherwise all megaprims would be phantom objects. Admitedly, phantom megaprims are very handy for visual things, building a floor and house that way simply wouldn’t work.

  60. shockwave yareach says:

    Physical meaning nonmoving, Jaxx and nonscript guaranteeing it can’t do anything except be a part of the architecture. It’s no harder making a collision map for 10000m2 than for 100m2. The purpose in making Legit Megaprims (tm pending) is keeping them from becoming Greifing tools. If you thought the rain of toruses was troublesome, wait until they are 100m wide and literally burying the sim. Making it so it costs 20L or so per noncopy Megaprim will help reduce this potential problem as well.

  61. Uccello says:

    Thank you, Andrew, for all your comments on Mega Prims. Some 90% of the technical talk was beyond me, but what I heard was promising: Existing builds with mega prims should not be affected and there may be a mean by which they can be “brought back” as a feature. Keep up the hard work, Andrew!

    Donuts for everyone!

  62. Pingback: Havok4 Preview Updated and Open « Official Linden Blog

  63. Nic Agnomen says:

    To Andrew Linden,
    Regarding your intention to bring back megaprim I have a suggestion and a comment.

    First I know nothing of programming and all of that but what about setting a prim width and lenght maximum size matching that of the land you are building on? Making it impoosible to build something wider then your land. Just a thouht.

    Second; my comment;
    Thank you so much for bringing back the huge prim eventually, we really need this.

    THanks again, take care
    Nic

  64. Ryu Darragh says:

    #56 is right and it’s even worse when the two individuals sharing a build are using two seperate *regions*.

    The only way a bridge crossing a chasm between two seperate regions can be crossed is if the bridge is built from both sides and extends all the way to *both* ends at the same time. Two seperate overlapping bridges between the regions. If not done this way, the Avatar will fall through the bridge in the new region as the prims overlapping from an adjacent region are phantom.

    Perhaps all objects need a permission check box only the owner of the property in question can set – “Allow Object Overlap”.

  65. It’s nice article! Thanks, good info!

  66. @Nic Agnomen

    Limiting the prim size to X^3 wouldn’t help matters. People could still make a giant cube in a sandbox and then spawn it elsewhere. It’s easily solved by not allowing the object to be placed, but it’s still a check the server has to make. In the end though it would only serve to frustrate people building on a 16×32 lot. As well, just because you can make a 16x32m prim doesn’t mean you’ll be placing it within your boundaries. Andrew’s method is suggesting that it would be impossible to put prims (or complete objects) out such that it covers multiple parcels. Just to clarify.

    As for putting a price on prims, that was done once before in SL’s past. Public reaction was rather poor in that aspect, and apparently there was a whole lot of rejoicing when the prim tax was nixed. I’m all for the idea of giant prims bigger than 10m^3 never getting physically enabled, but having a proper collision boundary for avatar and other physical collision would definitely be nice.

  67. concerned says:

    Thankyou andrew for answering in depth i do not personally use mega prims because they have never been supported by LL and i have seen the adverse effects they have had on some simulators causing massive drops in fps while the maths over collisions etc is worked out.Most occasions you can build a fantastic build/item using clever prim cutting although huge circles do mean a lot work script copy rotation is ok for smaller items but large circles can be a nightmare.

    Also pleased that havok has reappeared i used to listen in to phillip talking about havok 2 and have been looking forward to it ever since i knew it would take a while to come but great that now its havok 4 and while i understand at the moment this will bring no new options to our creations i know that this will bring a lot more stabilty and less lag and these are the main issues going on right now apart from database an assets but i know your working on a completely different issue to those so great job.

    If you need to recreate a bug let us know we will head on test grid and try to replicate it.

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