Second Life Moves into Real Life in Linz, Austria

Last week I went to Linz, Austria, to participate in Ars Electronica, a city-wide festival of digital art. The panel discussion was interesting, but what was REALLY cool was the fact that there was an exhibit which recreated Second Life in real life. A whole street (ok, an alley) was converted to Second Life, and dubbed Second City.

Second City

Within this street was a hairdresser…

Hairdresser

… SL art…

Wall Art

… Shopping…..

Skins

And a phone booth where you could have a video/voice conversation with someone in Second Life, created by Peter Harlander.

Cross Reality Phone Booth

The ‘exhibit’ was curated by Aram Bartholl:

Aram Bartholl

and there were Second Life avatars walking around.

Real Life AvatarsJanuary Lightfoot

But the best part was the “real” chat bubble, that printed out what was being typed by avatar, complete with missing image shirt, on a keyboard in front of him:

Typing….

Click here to see all the pictures.

About Robin Linden

Be the Change. You must be the change you wish to see in the world. ---Mahatma Gandhi
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101 Responses to Second Life Moves into Real Life in Linz, Austria

  1. Lozlo Peng says:

    sehr interessant

  2. Wow, that’s very cool. πŸ™‚ The Masquerade Ball at SLCC was the closest things I’ve seen to SL in RL previously!

  3. Jana Kamachi says:

    *_o You have a syntax error on the second image.

  4. Uccello says:

    Okies, I need data: How many were pushed by naked noobies? Was flying there as much as flying in SL? Did you teleport into and out of the street? How long did it take to rez things? And, did they remove all the restrooms to really replicate SL?

  5. Robin Linden says:

    Thanks Jana. I think it’s fixed.

  6. Hinkley Baldwin says:

    Was there a guy walking round with a plywood cube on his head?

  7. U M says:

    VERY COOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! πŸ™‚

    Thanks for sharing this πŸ™‚

    Usagi

  8. Fernan Tomcat says:

    Above all the crappy issues, that’s the essence that makes me love Second Life. Really cool (i must confess i’ve searched for dance poseballs in RL clubs without success, but at least the drinks were cold LOL) πŸ˜‰

  9. That is very cool indeed! Thanks for sharing

  10. D. Spitz says:

    oh nice.
    I wish i had time to go there too.
    But next year the http://www.aec.at will surely be visited, as sure as i said it last year.
    I saw one of the first ars-electronica’s in tv as i was a kid. It was so impressive. But some years later IMHO they lost this real good drive as spearhead of an evolution. Maybe they found the role again.

  11. Ree Indigo says:

    It’s like watching Springer: a train wreck comprised of worse no-life geeks than I am, obviously designed to make this no-life geek not feel so bad …

  12. Smiley Barry says:

    Awesome! Wish I could be there πŸ™‚ .

  13. JetZep Zabelin says:

    This is silly, its great! LOL Did the avatars have gestures? Did they same them? =D

  14. JetZep Zabelin says:

    i mean spam, not “same”

  15. Magical Beaumont says:

    Yes, it was realy cool…I called some RL people through Peter Harlander’s Telephone box. ( friends in RL). I hope all who were at this festival enjoyed the things there as much as I did.
    Thanks, Robin for sharing this

  16. Captain Noarlunga says:

    Not that I’m addicted…but on vacation in Spain this year, I was looking for Tags over ppls heads in the street.

  17. Alphonso Pidgeon says:

    Been thinking of having “Missing Image” tattoed on my head since my hair started falling out

  18. Jessica Hultcrantz says:

    w00t πŸ™‚

    this is the way to go!

    Get SL into RL, *NOT* RL into SL

    *mischievious grin*

  19. Tony says:

    Haha that’s rather cool, of course it could have done with a spinning ad farm full of adult friend finder ads!

  20. That was rather interesting. It’s so good to see ambassadors from Linden Lab going out to these events.

    Tell me though, when you are there talking, do you actually answer the Resident questions? I mean, when someone comes up and says, “My $25000 Linden object was lost and no one is doing anything about it”, just what do you say? Do you just walk away and scoff like you do here on your own Blog?

    I hope you all act more professionally when you are OUTSIDE the office, then when you are INSIDE it; hiding from the problems that us Residents would like fixed!

  21. Martin Magpie says:

    art rocks!

  22. Martin Magpie says:

    oh snap bob lol.

  23. Tony says:

    Robin is great at talking to residents Bob. You should pop along to one of her office hours. Robin doesn’t hide, she comes out and talks to people.

  24. zebadee says:

    thats insane :D! thanks for posting

  25. Tony:

    The LAST TIME I was at Robin’s Office hour, I asked her TWO questions, and got ZERO replies, although she did say she’d get back to me; and yet, here I still wait.

    Your results may be different, but for me, and MANY MANY MANY others, Robin has effectively “ran and hid” from the problems of Second Life, and continues to deny their existence.

    I really wish this were different, as I was once the largest Supporter of Second Life, I still am now, although now I’m talking in a different manner, and to a different audience. CNN will soon break a story about Second Life, a re-review of sorts, needless to say it shall be interesting. Let’s all hope Linden Lab won’t just continue to HIDE after that.

  26. Blinders Off says:

    Of course, if the exhibit was accurate, it would have crashed 3 or 4 times during the day and people would have returned to their cars to find them missing. ; )

  27. Tony says:

    Bob., Robin doesn’t have all the answers but I wouldn’t say she hides. She’s never hid from me and I give her a hard time at times. Robin is a star, she’s not perfect but she can’t answer everything. She’s not wonder woman, although I think she should try a wonder woman outfit for her AV.

    Anyway Bob come on, this was a fun blog post don’t you think? Even if you’re frustrated with Linden Lab right now. This isn’t really the place to vent.

  28. Hecaeta says:

    Reply to Mr. Bunderfield:

    Sir, this is not a forum to air you greivences. If you detest and dispise the service so much start your own world. Other accept that people are not perfect nor is techology.
    I would really wonder about the purchase of a 25kL$ object and most likely dismiss it as attempted fraud.

  29. Tony:

    You are right, Robin ISN’T a wonder woman, and I don’t ever imagine I would think of her as one. I have given Robin her due when it’s appropriate, but lately, all Robin seems to want to do is GLOSS OVER a problem that has been in existence for over 5 months now, and on top of that, has approved of her employee’s defaming my character and name to other Residents, and yes I have the log to prove it, have shown her, and was told to stop bothering her.

    Hecaeta, I love Second Life, probably more then you or any of your friends. I’ve been with it for over 4 years, and want it to continue for another 4. My problem isn’t with Second Life, my problem is with Linden Lab and how they are handling their basic affairs. They refuse to fix a problem that has impacted the user-base more greatly then ANY OTHER BUG, and instead of finding a real solution, tell the Residents it’s all their fault. When a company begins treating it’s CUSTOMERS like they were infected with a contagious disease, I get a little upset. And this IS a valid place to voice my opinion, since, if you read, it says, “WE VALUE FREE EXPRESSION”, WE being Linden Lab, and therefore I am speaking freely.

    Tony, I do think the trip to Austria was probably a lot of fun and would have loved to go along, but disappearing without first attending to the problems Residents have been complaining about, is really quite unprofessional in my opinion.

  30. JetZep Zabelin says:

    Bob, your comments are off-topic, I hope they are removed.

  31. Klaatu Congrejo says:

    That was nice Robin. Sharing your holiday snaps with us is a cute way of diverting our attention away from the scheduled downtimes over the next few days. I’m sorry I can’t share the enthusiasm of some of those posting their praises here.

    @18, Bob raises an excellent point. Do you actually take time to answer questions asked of you on these trips. Or do you treat RL people with the same disrespect we get here in SL?

    @19, Are you saying, Tony, that we have to actually go along to Robins office to get answers to questions posed in these blogs? Doesn’t that contradict the whole point of having blogs? ‘Popping along’ to her office isn’t always possible for those ppl in different timezones. And there seems to be no communication AT ALL from Robin or anyone at LL in response to questions asked in any of the recent blogs I’ve seen!

    When I got into SL at the beginning of this year it was with a sense of ‘collaborating’ in something new and exciting. I imagined there would be a free exchange of ideas and I got the impression that LL would do anything to help make my experiences interesting, fun, rewarding (though not a real priority with me) and educational.
    Kind of like when you go on the ferris wheel and you queue up to do it all over again because you had such a good time!
    I felt they really had the interests of their customers at heart. And let’s not forget here – WE are customers who are paying hard-earned RL cash for a service that doesn’t seem to exist any more.
    I’ve recently begun to ask myself questions like: “Have we all been conned?”, “After spending thousands of dollars to make this SL game a ‘fun’ experience are some of us now left holding a worthless asset that doesn’t work properly any more (except to suck hundreds of dollars of land tier out of our bank accounts each month)?”, “Are we ever going to get a decent level of service where we can get simple answers to simple questions?”

    Nice to see that RL is beginning to imitate SL though.
    But would we put up with this lack of communication, support, respect and plain honest decency in Real Life? I think not!

  32. Oh Robin, I forgot to mention, Austria is a wonderful place to vacation; don’t you think?

    Now that I touched the topic, let me say this. I present the following LOG conversation to prove to everyone that LOST OBJECTS can be recovered by Linden Lab. They know how to do it, yet, feel it’s not worth doing for everyone, just those that go behind the channels to ask for favors. You see friends, I was one of those people, that was granted this favor, and when I failed to properly kiss someone’s behind for it, they then decided to put me on the “don’t do favors again” list. That’s fine by me really, because what I want, isn’t a system that works in favor of a few Residents, I want a system that works for everyone, I want a company that will actually relieve the problems of their Customers, ALL of their Customers, not just those of us whose been around for over 4 long years.

    Without further adiue, enjoy the reading:

    [2007/08/21 18:12] Kona Linden: (Saved Tue Aug 21 20:12:08 2007) Hi…you there?
    [2007/08/21 18:12] Bob Bunderfeld: yes
    [2007/08/21 18:12] Bob Bunderfeld: Thank You for returning my TPS
    [2007/08/21 18:13] Kona Linden: Hi there…did you get a chance to see if your item appeared in your inventory in the Beta grid?
    [2007/08/21 18:13] Bob Bunderfeld: No, sorry, I didn’t know you wanted me on the Beta Grid
    [2007/08/21 18:13] Bob Bunderfeld: I see it’s back in my inventory now though
    [2007/08/21 18:13] Kona Linden: oh great!
    [2007/08/21 18:14] Bob Bunderfeld: I’m preparing to test it to be sure it still works
    [2007/08/21 18:14] Kona Linden: I ran some other systems to track things, so hopefully that helped.
    [2007/08/21 18:14] Kona Linden: ok, awesome
    [2007/08/21 18:14] Bob Bunderfeld: Thank you for your hard work
    [2007/08/21 18:14] Bob Bunderfeld: But, I have one simple question, and please don’t take offense at it
    [2007/08/21 18:15] Bob Bunderfeld: What about the other thousands of missing items other Residents have been complaining about for the past 4 months? Besides screaming at Robin and Philip for action, what can they do to achieve these same results?
    [2007/08/21 18:15] Bob Bunderfeld: And that’s an honest question, not a complaint
    [2007/08/21 18:16] Kona Linden: Well, that depends…many residents claim to be missing thousands of inventory items, but can’t even come up with exact names for missing items. Also…
    [2007/08/21 18:17] Kona Linden: how they claiming to be missing thousands of items is by using the inventory counter which has been announced as being inaccurate and shouldn’t be used to determine how much inventory they truly have.
    [2007/08/21 18:17] Kona Linden: There are those however that have been missing items, and I routinely address each case separately
    [2007/08/21 18:17] Bob Bunderfeld: I certainly didn’t mean ONE resident claiming to have lost thousands, I mean the THOUSANDS of RESIDENTS who’ve been claiming to lost ONE item, things just bought that they drag out and never appear. What about them?
    [2007/08/21 18:18] Kona Linden: so far, I’ve been lucky to rectify the loss to one degree or another.
    [2007/08/21 18:19] Bob Bunderfeld: Can you share with me numbers? I mean, I still see hundreds of complaints in the BLOG concerning this, yet you say something different. Which is right?
    [2007/08/21 18:19] Kona Linden: Ahh, yes, the failed to rez bug. That has been addressed and fixed over the passed months, with one incident where the fix broke, but that’s had been fixed.
    [2007/08/21 18:20] Bob Bunderfeld: Well, the good news is the TPS is working. Thank you again for your work in recovering this, I’m delighted.
    [2007/08/21 18:21] Kona Linden: Well, some of those claims are correct, pending on their type of loss. What I do find is that many folks who report loss are those using unsuported hardware. If you’re not running unsupported hardware, we can guarantee a degree of performance.
    [2007/08/21 18:21] Bob Bunderfeld: I would still be interested in knowing how many others have gotten this level of satisfaction. I know WHY I got this done, and it’s a shame it even has to come to me screaming at others for it to happen. But what about the other Residents, those that won’t scream because they are too frustrated to fight anymore?
    [2007/08/21 18:21] Kona Linden: or should I say, if you’re running unsupported hardware, you “play” at your own risk so to speak.
    [2007/08/21 18:22] Bob Bunderfeld: But, you never asked about my hardware, and you were still able to make a full recovery, that doesn’t seem to hold to what you just said. No offense again, just trying to clarify exactly.
    [2007/08/21 18:24] Kona Linden: Well that’s because I know you are running supported hardware. We attain this information when you login into SL.
    [2007/08/21 18:24] Bob Bunderfeld: Isn’t that only happening if your choose “Auto-Detect Hardware” in preferrences?
    [2007/08/21 18:25] Kona Linden: Sometimes even when running unsupported hardware like Intel cards, the loss is legitimate, but often times, those users still can’t see their inventory because they are running an Intel card.
    [2007/08/21 18:25] Bob Bunderfeld: Well, there’s a difference between missing items from your inventory and having them “ghosted” on the land
    [2007/08/21 18:25] Bob Bunderfeld: Mine weren’t ghosted, since I could walk thru the areas they were supposed to have rezzed in
    [2007/08/21 18:27] Kona Linden: Well the last fix done is engineered so that if a fail to rez occurs because the sim’s resources is tapped out, the original item is not deleted and returned to one’s inventory. Pending on how busy the grid is, there have been reports that there have been delays in this, which again would most likely be a scaling issue, but we’re working on improving that.
    [2007/08/21 18:29] Bob Bunderfeld: I do again say Thanks for your hard work. Although, I despise having to get upset with Linden Lab employee’s just to get something done that. Everyone there understands I hold no problems with screaming when there is a legitimate issue, but I still am concerned about those that don’t do this, and get frustrated by their experience, and quit.
    [2007/08/21 18:30] Bob Bunderfeld: This is my concern Kona, that people are leaving at an alarming rate, and eventually, Second Life will either be a ghost world, or because of the continued stress on the Grid that Linden Lab continues to heap on it, the world will just crumble under it’s own weight
    [2007/08/21 18:31] Kona Linden: Well Robin did drop a note on me and I checked for her. What residents are to do is contact the Live Support on the website, and the teams there handle issues on a case by case basis.
    [2007/08/21 18:31] Bob Bunderfeld: Yes, and when that “route” begins to work more properly, perhaps I’ll follow it. Until then, I refuse to operate within a system that is setup to fail.

  33. taotakashi says:

    Ah, I nearly would have been part of this exhibit, unfortunately I didn’t have enough time to get some prints out.. But it seems that is has been great πŸ™‚

  34. Lynd Mathy says:

    Let’s move the all the servers there so we can get the gaming back!!

  35. Tony says:

    @28 Klaatu, the blogs are limited to the amount of comments they can handle. No it’s not the right place. Robin is a very approachable lady, I don’t always see eye to eye with her but she doesn’t hide and she deserves respect.

    Bob, Robin isn’t the lady to talk to about inventory issues. Try Torley, Zero, Benjamin. Robin isn’t technical support.

  36. Tony:

    Read thru that log again, take careful interest where Kona says:

    “Well Robin did drop a note on me and I checked for her.”

    You see, while everyone laughs at Profky for saying there is a F.I.C. (Fetted Inner Core), he’s not too far from being right. While those that “CAN” approach some of the higher level Linden employee’s don’t have say over what enhancements or work is to be done, we have been granted favors to fix problems.

    This ISN’T the first time I’ve asked a favor of the Linden’s either, but it’s the last. I’m tired of seeing others, who pay just as much as I have, get nothing for their trouble, and then leave.

    You see, while Linden Lab claims to care about their Customers and Second Life, I truly do. I want Second Life to be around for more then just another 18 to 24 months, but that isn’t going to be possible if Linden Lab continues on their path. When you fail to take into account your Customer complaints for over 5 months, then don’t be surprised when you lose them, and no one comes in to replace them.

    It’s time for Linden Lab to change their attitude’s, and I have ONE MORE big secret that I can expose if they want. Ever wonder why OLIVE was changed from a SANDBOX to a MATURE SIM? Bet you can’t guess πŸ™‚

  37. Tony says:

    Bob, Prok has a good relationship with Robin. She often hits her with both barrels, Robin talks to Prok.

    I agree with you that LL’s customer service isn’t all it should be, but I disagree with you about your target. Robin is a gem and LL need more people like her. I’ve seen her front protests She has too much on her plate is the bigger issue and that’s not Robin’s fault.

  38. Tony:

    I’m not attacking Robin, I’m attacking Linden Lab management, and whether you like that or not, ROBIN is a management employee, and she CAN get things done when SHE wants.

    I’ve seen it happen, she’s done them for me in the past. Now, I’m saying, stop the favoritism, stop the going on behind the scenes to please a few, and instead, stand up and support the WHOLE COMMUNITY. You say ROBIN is nice and all, then answer this one question, Why hasn’t SHE chosen to respond?

    You see, what you say, what you experienced, isn’t near what others have, and now the reality is hitting the fan, and damn be me but I’m going to drag Linden Lab into the light by myself if I have to, to get them to support Second Life and the Second Life Community the way it should be!

  39. Ann Otoole says:

    wow this is better than channel SLX!

  40. Robin Linden says:

    @Tony – thanks for the kind words. I very much appreciate it!

    @Bob – You were asking, as I recall, about why we only focus on bugs that can be reproduced. That’s really a better question for Aric, but the short answer is that there are so many things that can influence an outcome (client configuration, network, region content, and so on) that we need to focus on those problems that can be reproduced — i.e. are more likely to be system issues that are code based which can be fixed.

    You also had a lost inventory problem, and as the chat log shows, Kona spent a good deal of time helping you try to locate your inventory. Are we ok with the fact that content gets lost? Absolutely not. I hope a day will come when no one has to worry about lost content, and when you’ll be able to back up your content as a precaution.

    Finally, Austria is a lovely place. I wasn’t there on vacation though. Following a few days of meetings in France, I went to Austria to participate in a panel discussion on virtual worlds. There I found Second City and was thrilled. The people who built that exhibit put in HOURS of time and it was credit to their own creativity and to that of the Second Life community.

  41. Robin:

    Thank you for FINALLY being goaded into answering a few questions, I really do appreciate that.

    Now, let’s deal with the other issue, shall we? Lost Objects CAN be recovered, I’ve posted the proof, and while you can censor it out, I’ll just post it again and again until everyone is aware of this and screaming for the same treatment I got! So, you say you are concerned about LOST CONTENT, then WHY haven’t you or anyone else from Linden Lab answered other comments posted in other blogs concerning OTHER losses? It’s easy to say you don’t wish something to happen because you’ve been forced from you crystal tower, but now let’s show the Community the REAL NATURE of Linden Lab. Let’s everyone see that unless you are someone that has some pull, that Linden Lab is going to ignore you. THE ONLY reason Kona did all that work was because I wrote YOU a letter, bypassing the support system, with your full knowledge, and then he “MIRACULOUSLY” recovered the item that had been missing. Unless you are willing to say that EVERYONE should just contact you directly for Lost Objects, then please, tell us all here and now, why Linden Lab has FAILED to respond to the hundreds, if not thousands, of others who have lost objects and asked for them back?

    I’m very happy that the Second Life Community is still supporting Second Life, but please, make no mistake, the Second Life Community does NOT SUPPORT Linden Lab at this time. We have seen your lies and fabrications, we have been insulted time and again by your employee’s with YOUR approval, and we are tired of the problems that go on for months and then get one BLURB from someone in management because they’ve been SHAMED into making an appearance! Now, come into the light please, FULL DISCLOSURE, and let’s tell everyone all our DIRTY LITTLE SECRETS shall we?

  42. Tillie Ariantho says:

    > @Bob – You were asking, as I recall, about why we only focus on bugs that can be reproduced.

    Haha. And that was a pretty dumb question, I wouldn’t have answered, either, I think. I don’t know you at all, Bob Bunderfeld, but have you ever written software with more than a 1000 lines of code? And then tried to find a bug that someone told you is in there?

    And you are spamming this thread.

    But back to topic: I really like the idea of bringing SL into RL. Did people point to things with all fingers stretched out, almost poking their own eye out? .-P Or moving their head around as if their are following an invisible moving spot in the room? Or sitting on chairs sideways, assuming that the furniture has no poseball? hahaha… you could do really funny things in RL, and other SL players would recognize them at once. πŸ˜€

  43. @ Tillie and any others that don’t know this video:

    It made me laugh so hard πŸ™‚

  44. Athena Whizenhunt says:

    Linz,Austria? Is it on the grid now?
    Well, we can always hope someday to fix the bugs in RL, an update that had discussion enabled would be nice. Oh, wait! That’s what SL is for.
    I bet if we began agreeing on issues we could bring more than an alley to RL.
    Nice stuff! Does this make us a cult now?

  45. Jazzine Jewell says:

    Cute pics, now I’m on topic. πŸ™‚

    @27 Did you put your mind in gear before you put your fingers in motion?? Bob Bunderfeld, a person totally unknown to me, and possibly a complete jerk, has every right to express his opinion here. It is, in fact, the very SAME thing that you did when you responded to his post. This isn’t a grievance forum? That point may be arguable, but nonetheless, it is the ONLY place allowed us by LL to air ANYTHING, including grievances. And frankly, Bob had some excellent points, whether you or I agree with him or not. If you don’t wish to see “opinions” placed here, then start by excluding your own.

    And I’m not talking about whining, I’m talking about well-formed, well-stated, understood-by-all posts with actual points.

    @Robin, Thanks for a reply to Bob. It proves that LL DOES read this, which is what we are all ultimately asking of you.

    @Bob…………dont keep me waiting, what happened to Olive???

  46. Tillie:

    Funny you should ask, but when I started in IT, I was a programmer, and actually was in charge of debugging code, and yes, more then 1000 lines in each program.

    Listen, for you poor people that think hard work might actually harm you in some way, there are REAL problems in Second Life, that cannot be re-produced magically so it’s ever so easy to figure them out. This is a hard thing to hear I know, but it’s quite true. The problem with these bugs are that you can describe what you were doing, what your system is like, what you think the bandwidth and lag level was like, but as Robin said, it makes it hard to find and fix. Well gee, I didn’t know we were supposed to trod through CRAP programming by the company who made Second Life because that company finds it too hard to actually do the REAL work.

    I found it much more of a challenge when I was programming to find bugs without much more then, when I hit this that happened, but that’s all I know, so off I would go and FIX IT. Is it too much to ask that the people at Linden Lab grow a set and get down to some hard work?

    The problem at Linden Lab is easily explained, it stinks from the HEAD down. Uncle Philip allows his employees to have “recess” all day and doesn’t require any real work from them. If all you Linden Lab employee’s would like to prove me wrong, here’s how:

    One, fix the problem with Objects getting lost in-world in the next week.

    Two, recover my Lost Content like KONA did before, and quit LYING and saying you can’t.

    Ok, it’s in your court now children, let’s see how you play your hand!

  47. Chaz Longstaff says:

    Bob, to be fair, we should also not neglect to mention the level of customer service provided by us to our customers in SL. You come across many shining examples of people who knock their socks off looking after their customers, but frankly, there are just as many who couldn’t give a toss, and sadly, there is no Better Business Bureau in SL.

    So if there is talk of poor customer service, the finger should be pointing back at us in SL as well.

  48. saijanai says:

    I’m still grappling with the concept of focusing time and energy on a bug that can NOT be reproduced. I can see the corporate pragmatism that might lead one, if some exceedingly VIP asks for it, to go snark hunting, but otherwise, commonsense dictates that you only tilt at windmills that you can see, not ones that no-one, including the person doing the reporting, can see…

  49. D. Spitz says:

    Oh interesting, are there any more photos of Ars Electronica?
    Maybe someone has some comments on that?
    Thanks for this interesting blog-comments on Ars Electronica, love to read this.

    And please do never feed the trolls.

  50. Desmond Shang says:

    Wow, that looks wonderful!

    Thanks for sharing, Robin – must have been an amazing time!

  51. Saijanai:

    When a bug that has effected over 1000 Residents, and probably over 10,000 by now, hasn’t been fixed because no one can re-produce it, it should be on everyone’s priority list.

    Any bug that is so damning to your product, whether or not you can repro it should and would in most any other company, be found, squashed, and then have coding added to be sure it could never rise to that level again.

    This is true for ANY shop, just go do a survey of any big shop, and ask them “if they had a bug, that effected over 10,000 of their customers, even if the customers couldn’t repro it, would you try and fix it?”, and I’ll bet 100%, well 99% in case you ask Linden Lab, would answer YES.

    Now, let’s take away even the idea that they don’t want to spend all this time fixing a bug. How do you explain that MY OBJECTS were recovered without issue? If you read the log, you can plainly see that KONA restored my character to the beta grid, found the inventory item, then sent it to my inventory in the Production Grid. So, if they can do it for me, WHY, WHY, WHY, aren’t they doing it for others?

    I’ll let the bug fix slide, if Linden Lab starts processing the LOST OBJECT Support Tickets and JIRA Reports in the same way they did mine the first time. We know it’s possible, the log is there for all to see, so, when will Linden Lab stand up and say, “We made a mistake, we are sorry, and we are now setting up a system on the web or in-world, for everyone to report their object losts and those that can identify them to a certain degree will get them recovered, the same way we did for Bob”. Let’s see just how much Linden Lab cares, because saying you care is easy, actually SHOWING it is a bit harder; right Uncle Philip and Aunty Robin?

  52. D. Spitz says:

    Hey Pong, nice video, cool!

  53. Calin McKinney says:

    Hooray for Bob! I love SL, but remember we need folks like Bob to help bring things to the spotlight in order to try to improve everyone’s experience. I can tell that Bob cares very much about the game and his fellow players, and I for one appreciate someone who is willing to take the time and energy to share information and knowledge in the quest of making this game better for all of us.

    Linden Lab…we love the game…even Bob does…so please focus on giving your very best customer service to everyone!

  54. Jazzine:

    For the whole OLIVE story, just read my blog at:

    http://insidesecondlife.blogspot.com

  55. Aodhan McDunnough says:

    On bugs:

    Anyone who’s done any serious programming will know from experience that a very important first step to getting rid of the bug, rather than just its symptoms, is to be able to reproduce the bug. Being able to reproduce a bug on demand means that you have positively located a part of the bug that can be fixed, if not the whole. Given the multitude of operating systems and computers we run, not to mention firewalls and such, absence of a “repro” means any attempts at finding a bug is hit or miss and likely to damage other stuff.

    On Linz:

    LOL on the “missing image” shirt. I do hope we get that problem solved. In the absence of a solution I’d like an option to manually trigger a reload an avatar that has missing images.

  56. Aodhan:

    For you, and those that continue to believe that line, your just lazy.

    It’s possible, it just takes time, patience, and good working knowledge of what you are doing. I know, I used to do it, and without asking the people, “exactly what did you do to cause this?”. I didn’t find it an impossible task, so why are Linden Lab employee’s trying to say it is? That’s easy to answer to, they’re lazy.

    Perhaps this is why that there are so very few of us that take the time to complain anymore, maybe everyone’s just got lazy!

  57. Robin, thanks for sharing those lovely pictures πŸ™‚ Now this is what I call surreal art of the best kind… let’s hope the trend catches on.

    Bob:

    I want a company that will actually relieve the problems of their Customers, ALL of their Customers, not just those of us whose been around for over 4 long years.

    The day Microsoft does that, I’ll be a customer of theirs again.

    And for the record, I lost more files to Windows than inventory objects (about 2000) to Second Life. Did Microsoft care? Naw. And I used to be a customer of theirs for 13 painfully long years…

    Maybe you need a reality adjustment, Bob, and I’m afraid that the naked truth is not nice: software has bugs. A 250-person-company cannot attend to the whims of every one of the 9.5 million users. They prioritise their support, though: Global Providers first, Concierge-class customers next, Premium users next, and Basic users last. All according to how much they pay LL every month, like any normal software development company does. I have no idea where Charter Members like you are considered in that list, but I believe that a one-day-old resident with 50 sims will get more support time than a Charter Member with a free 4096 m2 plot.

    When a bug that has effected over 1000 Residents, and probably over 10,000 by now, hasn’t been fixed because no one can re-produce it, it should be on everyone’s priority list.

    Emphasis mine: I believe that you have answered yourself pretty thoroughly. If nobody can’t reproduce a bug, how can it ever be fixed? This is like going to the garage with your car and saying: “My car sometimes fail to start. I can’t reproduce it, though. It just happens. Sometimes. Good luck in finding it out”. What can the mechanic do? There might be a billion reasons for that to happen. The same applies to a visit to your doctor saying that: “I have a pain in my head. It happens randomly, and I don’t have any clue when it happens. Sometimes it happens when I’m tired; sometimes when I’m not; sometimes when I’m eating; sometimes when I’m not eating. Sometimes it happens three times in a day; sometimes four months elapse before my headache returns. What’s wrong with me?”

    Then there is the whole aspect of time to consider, and the cost involved in fixing an un-reproduceable bug. Let’s imagine the following scenario: a developer at Linden Lab has 8,000 or so bugs at Jira, all that can be reproduced, a few of which he can fix in a few hours at most. Most take weeks or months to fix, though. And he has a bug from someone that claims it’s not reproduceable, no matter what.

    Where should the developer start?

    In any reasonable operation, the developer will work first on anything that has a lower cost and a higher benefit: starting with the small bugs that get easily fixed. Then come the bigger bugs that take more time but affect a huge number of people, so the investment in them pays off the cost of fixing them.

    And, last but not least, at the very bottom of the list, come the un-reproduceable bugs. Since these might be “anything”, it’s a question of trial-and-error. Without any clues to start with, there are simply too many variables to deal with β€” from hardware, to subtle interactions between the software installed on your computer, to the network… it might come to the point where the only way to see the bug ever happening is to get a Linden bug-hunter to sit behind you during all the time you’re in SL, and wait until the bug pops up, and then freeze the moment somehow.

    It’s not “lazyness”. It’s cost-effectiveness. So, in order to get your bugs on the top of the queue, the first step is to make sure that no LL employee has to waste time figuring out what the bug actually is, but, instead, have enough data to know exactly how the bug affects you, and spend all their precious little time fixing it, not searching for it.

    And, of course, there is always the open source community tinkering with the viewer. They have a near infinite supply of free time, and, who knows, they might look at it as a challenge!

  58. Klaatu Congrejo says:

    Robin, further to my earlier post (@30) I really am happy that you took time to share your pictures with us. I was in Linz in Austria April & May this year on one of my frequent overseas research trips. Hope you found time to visit the old market town of Eferding nearby? If not, you MUST put it on your itinerary if you go there again.

    @ 33 Now Tony, if Robin can take a few minutes out of her busy schedule (with quite a bit of goading I might add, and I’m NOT being sarcastic here believe me) to try and answer a few questions, why can’t we get answers from any of the other Lindens to the long list of grievances constantly posted in these blogs?

    I’m glad Robin has tried to prove you right Tony, she SEEMS like a nice enough person – though I don’t know here that well! But kinda makes a joke of your suggestion that this is not the right place for a dialogue with the Lindens because of limited space (btw, I’ve seen blogposts go to 200 comments and more – so there isn’t really a ‘limit’).

    Seeing as we’ve established that LL can take the time to communicate when they want to I’ll put in my two cents worth – AGAIN. And I’ll even keep it simple by asking just ONE thing this time.
    How about an answer to my question in recent blogs:
    I am unable to buy L$ and bring money INTO the game to spend. I posted a ticket at the Support Portal more than 2 weeks ago, the next day it was marked ‘work in progress’ and has been that way ever since. I’ve had NO communication from LL to advise me what the problem is, HOW it will be fixed, WHEN it will be fixed, not even an offer of compensation (not holding my breath there, lol).
    So, at the moment, I am a Concierge customer with thousands of dollars invested in a game that I can’t spend any money in, and am getting absolutely NO SUPPORT OR COMMUNICATION from the people who are sucking hundreds of dollars of tier-money out of my bank account every month. I have just started developing my land but have had to put everything on hold until I can get some more funds into the game. So that means I have lots of land lying idle, that I can’t even get any income from (and I’m sure as hell not ‘renting’ it out to adfarmers!).
    I know of several other ppl in SL having this very same problem. No wonder I/we are p’d off!

    On 28th August, when there was a similar problem, LL posted a blog regarding ‘Inworld L$ Purchase Issues’ with the assurance that “this problem has the undivided attention of several of our developers”.
    The problem was reported as fixed within two hours.
    So why have we now been waiting more than TWO WEEKS for it to be fixed this time? Or is the 28th August problem still going on? In which case it was stupid of them to report it as fixed later that same day!

    Pull your fingers out guys. You ‘pretend’ to offer a top quality service to Region owners like myself but this whole joke is just not funny anymore!

  59. JetZep Zabelin says:

    Bob, screw your idea of a FIC. I have received “preferential” personal treatment from a Linden and I am a free member. If you want to complain about being treated, then go ahead make yourself look like a jerk who no one wants to help anymore.

  60. Siann Beck says:

    Nice work, whoever put this together, and thanks for sharing your pics, Robin. More than once I’ve been in a RL store, seen something interesting on an advertising poster, and had the impulse to click it.

  61. Aodhan McDunnough says:

    @Bob

    I read the list of bug fixes in every new version of the client. LL is certainly not lazy. The bug fix list is invariably long.

    I never said that LL tosses the job of repros to us. But I also can’t blame them if they can’t find the repro either. I’m sure they do devote some people to searching for repros for the bugs getting a lot of complaints but to toss a lot more people and effort into that endeavor is not a good idea because bugs that are repro’ed and ready to be fixed won’t get attention.

    I haven’t gotten tired of complaining, if I find a bug I’d report it. Why don’t I? It’s because stuff I want to report tend to already be in the Jira. I’d put my L$2 worth if I had something further to contribute.

    Lost items is an iffy topic altogether. The internet is an iffy medium as are servers. How to reconcile a no-loss system with a transfer/no-copy (unique existence, transferrable) system with a setup like SL is a challenge at its easiest. I avoided the issue from the start by not dealing in no-copy items. I knew the potential problems.

  62. anylyn hax says:

    On the Border between Austria and germany there is a town called FUCING. Thats no Joke. Its a good place for to make the Secondlive Escort Conference 2007

  63. anylyn hax says:

    The Town is called with a “CK” instead of “C”, I was afraid they censor my words.

  64. Gwenneth, I’m sorry to hear that you are leaving Second Life. You know I’ve always admired you, even though we don’t see eye to eye, but I hope someday you will return. You are leaving right? I mean you said that you were no longer a Microsoft Customer because they lost many of your files, and following that logic, you are no longer going to be a Linden Lab customer since they lose your files too; or is there some sort of double-standard you are holding onto here so you can continue to enjoy the world of Second Life?

    People, understand this clearly, I love Second Life, I enjoy being in-world when I get the opportunity to be there, and I think Linden Lab deserves HUGE KUDO’s for it’s development. What I don’t agree with is how SUPPORT is run, how Support blames RESIDENTS for problems that are clearly Linden Lab, and how some people want to characterize Profky as a crazy fool when I know he isn’t. Now, that said, Profky and I don’t talk, we had a falling out 2 years ago over something completely different, but I’ll be damned that the people in Second Life should laugh at him because he claims there is a FETTED INNER CORE (FIC). There is a FIC, Profky’s problem is that he thought it did more then it could. The people in the FIC, while not officially noticed as such, can ask and receive favors from Linden Lab; I should know, I used to do it myself quite a lot! How can you all, after reading through that log of KONA and I, where he admits to recovering my objects because ROBIN asked him to look into it after I wrote her, not see this?

    You can say what you want, and believe what you want, but there it is, in all it’s wonderful glory, and I promise I’m NOT the only person that received preferrential treatment from Linden Lab. There are plenty of others, and while they remain hidden from your view today, I hope their consciousness gets the better of them as mine did me and finally speak up, and put an end to this type of “Preferrential Support”. Second Life at the moment is considerably broken, and we need real SUPPORT from a REAL company, not one pretending to be a pioneer and has no time to actually HELP those that are supporting and paying for their pioneering!

  65. Finally, a lesson in debugging your programs:

    First, pull your flow-charts. If you don’t have any flow-charts -10 points for being stupid. Hire someone EXPERIENCED in flow-charting and debugging and have him/her start the process. Every single MODULE gets charted.

    Second, once your flows are done, you can start looking at where these potential, un-reproduceable problems might be hiding. Looking through each module you choose as you go along will help you get an idea about how things are being handled and you may be surprised to find yourself the issue.

    Third, get the network geeks to setup a REAL BETA server just for you debuggers. This network should come with one real life NETWORK GURU that can interject NACK Storms, LAG, PACKETLOSS, ETC., so when you want to see what happens if say packetloss is at 25%, you can.

    Fourth, GET TO WORK. Follow the code. For every module, think OUTSIDE the box. Remember, programs rarely work the way their intended because most people don’t have the ability to write beautiful, conscise, clean code. So if there’s a weird call, that you don’t understand the need for, force the module to do that and see what the outcome is!

    Now, the rest you guys should be able to do on your own. If you can’t, then go hire yourself someone that knows how to DEBUG and let them help you. Stop thinking your THE SHOP in gaming, because we both know, most other Gaming shops think you’re nothing but a joke, and it’s no wonder considering how many bugs are still in SL after 4 years.

    Lastly, please remember, I’m all for the world of Second Life, but we’ve reached a point where we need to take off our blinders and take a real and hard look at what’s going on out there. Let’s not be blinded by our loyalties, like I was, let’s take a step back, review what’s been presented and said, and come to a heartfelt understanding. I did, and for me it means, Second Life needs saving, and I’m going to do whatever I can to get Linden Lab to do just that.

  66. The Todd says:

    Thats pretty cool, thanks Robin

  67. Andre Crede says:

    gdrhgdrhdbdfgjtzh

  68. RedSwami Noarlunga says:

    To everyone,
    Bob really does care and love second life,as do I.Keep in mind the frustrations that he and others have felt.I myself have tried to introduce roughly 40 of my RL friends into this great world the lindens have allowed us to be apart of, which one (1) out of all of them continues.So out of 9500000 that ratio is not so good.
    …237,500 /9,500,000….. in my opinion.Maybe the two (Bob and LL)should join forces to help with all of us,and the ones who will come here. He surely does have the in world and RL experience,providing he is physically able. thank all of you for your time and have a great Day.

  69. Now all we need is someone with enough photos of the event to build this place in Second Life. Then we’ll an homage to the homage, and then the Universe will probably turn inside out or something.

  70. Now all we need is someone with enough photos of the event to build this place in Second Life. Then we’ll have an homage to the homage, and then the Universe will probably turn inside out or something.

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  72. Captain Noarlunga says:

    @63 and all Bobs other posts….
    Although I agree with some of the comments and sentiments expressed and Bobs desire to make things better ….. and I too in the past have been a bitter critic of LL ….. I have to be fair and balanced and say that things have been much better in the past few months and that LL have done a hell of a lot of work to improve support and to listen to feedback. People have a choice …use it for free and decide if they want to stay or go. If they choose to pay after a trial period, they know what to expect…..so it isn’t right to keep whining about it. As open source is there, many of these ppl, who are seemingly “experts” would do well to devote their talents to helping resolve issues when and where possible. Whining on here isnt the best way to use energy. Submitting tickets and supporting JIRA is a better way to make it happen. This doesnt mean it is wrong to flood the blogs with posts from one person…but it does get tedious Bob, reading the same comments in different blogs……and it gives others less chance to submit their views.

  73. Captain Noarlunga says:

    Another thing…..I have found all the Lindens I have had contact with have been extremely willing to do all they can to help me fix a problem. It’s a 2-way thing……be balanced and resonable, treat them like people and they will reciprocate. It isn’t an Us and Them situation,; they don’t go out of their way to be difficult or to ignore people. Imagine how busy it is there…… People always imagine their problem is the most important…..but it may not be. Most people really enjoy helping others and Lindens are no different. If they could sit in the office all day and get hardly any problems they would probably prefer it to being under pressure all the time ….. so although you see it as “them against us” …it isn’t ….. so it may be worth remembering this next time you want to express a view or ask for help and support. People react to impatience and rudeness with a degree of indifference (at best) …. try to be objective and reasonable…..it will repay itself 100-fold. Also…..filling the blogs with 10-point plans on how LL should fix problems internally only shows up a bad ego problem …… send it to support or mail it to the company …. or better still …. offer to work for them.

  74. JetZep Zabelin says:

    Captain, I agree with your way of facing these problems. Regardless of how important Bob may have been to community development, his choice to use this blog posting by Robin as an opportunity to start attacking LL makes him look vicious. And so I gave him a taste of his own medicine.

    Robin thank you for this posting it was interesting and humorous and led me to find a few videos.

  75. Teeny Leviathan says:

    Any “realistic” SL in RL exhibit needs the following:

    Noob with cabin on head
    Ruths (male and female)
    A few grey textures.
    Several generic newbie avatars
    A few very chatty people with a white dot over their heads
    Furries
    Plywood buildings and other objects
    Camping chairs
    Lag
    Babblers

  76. Captain:

    First, you assume that I get vitrol with any Linden I speak with. Actually, I don’t. Most Lindens and I have a good working relationship. When in-world, I may ask them hard questions and press for an answer, but I’m rarely, if ever, rude to them.

    As for the same blog content everywhere getting tedious, this is just another way to make Linden Lab face up to their problems. Some may read this Blog, but not the others, therefore, having this posted acrossed all blogs increases the chances that someone will see this and say, “Gee, why is it that Bob got preferrential treatment and I don’t?”

    As for me taking room on the Blog Comments and not giving anyone else room to speak, that’s fundamentally flawed, since I have no control who post comments and who chooses not to. If someone wants to post a comment, they are always here, always available.

    As for you Jet, once again I say, “Put your money where your mouth is!” Until you do, you’re the hypocrite here πŸ™‚

  77. JetZep Zabelin says:

    Here is one of your lies/distortions/propaganda:
    Uncle Bob says “Linden Lab has/is turning a BLIND EYE to support”
    http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/09/15/network-connectivity-problem/#comment-477632

    You are highly uncivil Uncle Bob. I’m not responding to any further comment from you about me. But I will respond to your lies and distortions and general propaganda in the appropriate thread about network problems, my responses will severely criticize your idea of “helping” SL.

  78. Jet:

    Go back and read the support I’ve obtained here and on the other Blog Comment. Then come tell me it’s a lie.

    Sorry, but when others are saying exactly what I am saying, it’s not a lie, it’s a perceived truth and that’s FAR from a lie.

    If you don’t understand the difference, take a philosophy class and then come back and re-read it all.

    BTW – I hear Austria is beautiful this time of the year.

  79. Someone help me out with this please. Real Life moving into Second Life is a good thing why? Am I the only one who comes to Second Life to leave Real life behind? No Gambling. Age-Identity-DNA Identification. Suing each other in US Federal Court. US Congress working on figuring out how to tax us in Second Life as Linden Lab forces us to put put our Tax ID number (aka SSN4) on file. I’m missing what is so cool about Real Life invading my sanctuary from it.

  80. Robin Linden says:

    It was the other way around Connie. Second Life moving into Real Life. Avatars, shops, cross-reality communication. It was great!

    Also – one point of clarification. Should you choose to age verify (and it’s voluntary) we will not put your SSN on file, not even the last four digits. Or you could use a driver’s license number, which would also not be put on file.

  81. Day Oh says:

    I love the photo of the video booth… that seriously reminds me of the metaverse in the book Snow Crash. Cheers!

  82. A driver’s license is very easily cross referenced to a SSN. And of course you won’t put them on file. You will pay someone else to do it for you. Plausible deniability and all. And backwards or forwards, I would like to know why anyone thinks mixing RL and SL is a good thing.

  83. And it is NOT voluntary. You MUST supply it in order to maintain the access you had before this nonsesne began. And its NOT needed to verify age.

  84. concerned says:

    I have to agree with connie on this 1 you ask us to give details ok only in part to a 3rd party company we have no reason to trust,In my country you must be 18 to have a credit card but even though linden labs have an office in the uk they don’t seem to know this fact.

    A simple disclaimer when we log in to tick could cover you as well as this action.

    I understand we all need to keep minors from seeing indecent images but i in no way see how this will make any difference,Fact most kids who get on sl shouldn’t be in any mature content/mature or PG sim because how many of us have been in a sim where someone builds a block and drops a pictures on the block laughs and deletes it?How many of us have seen pornographic griefing attacks.

    So a disclaimer to say you are over 18 then its up to parents to monitor how kids are using thier PC’s/Macs with a message to say if anyone found to be underage is in game then they risk losing account and IP adress being banned.

    Sorry this is off topic but when there are no topics open to post veiws,needs must.

    On topic its great to see how people around the world are embracing SL to this level and great to see SL having an impact in events like this.Maybe one day a little part of SF will be full of ruths…..heads to cali to open a purple sweater shop:)

  85. Hi Robin Great that you visit our litle cauntry in Austria
    it give us a bit more help in devloping and informing the austrian on the SL posibilitis.
    I just miss a Secondlife representativ at the big Game convention in Vienna .But who knows comes time come a way.
    Thanks for the pix you remember me that i have to upload it too

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  87. Julya Lykin says:

    I think that our dear friend BOB should get his own blog, so the people that are actually interested in the topic can read the comments about the topic. No one wants to hear the moaning and groaning about your problems. We all have them, but we don’t cry on a blog to get attention.

    Now on to the topic:

    I think that is very interesting to have a telephone booth that has both options. I think that they should start a SecondLife convention and travel to different countries. Like WorldCon does, it picks a different country every year to host the convention. I think people would really get into it.

    Julya

  88. Maxx Monde says:

    That’s pretty cool Robin. I’m personally waiting for the eyeglass-wearable link to do things in-world, mapping over real things with locative-tagged SL creations.

    @Bob – perhaps a better method of expressing your concerns would be a centrally maintained blog, not in off-topic posts on this one. Re: Project Open Letter, for example.

  89. Barf Burt says:

    Wheres the SL version of that place, i wanna see that phone booth

  90. Justkickzazz Taurog says:

    *chuckles* I wonder if there were people running around with their shoes and hair stuck up their biological backside ?

    Really cool stuff though and thanks for sharing this.

    Btw, Bob Bunderfield, you’re about as close as someone can get to a griefer IRL. Why don’t you just jump off the highest cliff available in your area (or alternatively try the highest building) and make an end to the misery you call life…oh, I forgot – you don’t have any !

  91. I met Robin at the Ars Electronica Festival during her visit of the Second City.

    She had a very dense agenda but she took her time to take a close look on all the projects and to discuss some important issues for the Austrian SL communtity.

    Later on at the panel discussion on virtual worlds Robin made some interesting statements on the future of Second Life. I was happy to find out that Robin shares my opinion about certain issues in Second Life.

    Btw: if you wanna try the trans reality video phone booth simply have a look at my website. Hopefully we ll have a new location for it soon :o)

    Ice Stawberry

  92. Ley Wrangler says:

    Really cool merger between the two realities πŸ™‚ Congrats

  93. cyberonx link says:

    uh , ok , this is interesting, but hmmm lets see what else they come up with eh ? ….. –peace-out πŸ˜‰

  94. Vortex says:

    @64, I assume you sent your resume already ? So you can clean house and make it all better ?

  95. lordfirefox says:

    And of course you have people like #81 who just read the headline and assume the worst, and can’t be happy with anything LL does, even if it’s a benign blog post like this one.

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