Identity Verification Comes to Second Life

Trust is the foundation of any community. And one cornerstone of trust is identity. You’ve got to know something about the person you are dealing with before you can trust them. Knowing who to trust in an online environment presents unique challenges. Traditionally Second Life users have based their trust on relationships built over time, and often on some basic verification such as ‘Payment Info on File’.

As the community grows and as the economy develops, it’s clear we need a new means of identification. We’ve talked about identity and age verification in prior posts here, here and here. Each one elicited a lot of feedback in the comments. Comments which we’ve listened to and considered when developing our Identity Verification (IDV) system.

The IDV system aims to deliver two things. First, for Residents, it gives them the chance to independently verify certain aspects of their identity (their name, age, location and sex for instance) if they choose to. This will help establish trust by removing a layer of anonymity for those they interact with. It’s much easier to trust someone who puts their name behind their words and actions.

The second benefit of the IDV system is to help land owners and content publishers be sure that minors do not get access to inappropriate material. Again this is voluntary, but we wanted to provide the tools for estate owners to restrict access to content of a sexual or violent nature to those they are sure are over 18. They’ll do this by flagging the content as ‘Restricted’ which will only allow avatars verified as over 18 to access the land. Visitors to Restricted areas can also be reassured that all other visitors are over 18 as well.

I want to reiterate that identity verification is voluntary for both Residents and estate owners. Residents who value their anonymity may continue to remain anonymous and will continue to have access to all Mature and PG areas of the Grid. Land owners are strongly encouraged to flag adult content as Restricted to safeguard themselves from publishing inappropriate content to minors, as well as protecting any minors themselves.

Information provided during the identification process, such as a driver’s license, passport or national ID card number, will simply be used to cross-check against public records. Linden Lab will not be storing this data and nor will the third party verification specialist, Aristotle. Residents may choose which personal details such as name, age, location, sex, they wish to share about themselves publicly.

Some asked whether a simple credit card could suffice as verification. For the purpose of building trust, such a system would not be adequate since credit cards are not a means of ID. Credit cards aren’t restricted to over 18s, are not tied to a verified name and are not available in every country where Second Life is used. You can’t get into a bar with a credit card for instance.

A beta of the IDV system is open initially to all estate owners from today, who are free to verify their identities. Once the beta period is complete the system will be available to all Residents. Access to Restricted parcels will be prohibited for non-verified avatars from that time.

Further to Ian Linden’s recent blog post about Grid stability, I’d also like to reassure you that this system has been developed by a third party and has not detracted from essential bug fixing efforts, which we realize are key.

We’ve updated and enhanced the Q&As below, which I hope address the main points about how to verify yourself and which types of content to flag. Personally, I think this will help take our in-world relationships to a new level of trust. And that’s good for us all.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Questions and Answers
What is identity verification? It’s a means of verifying aspects of who you are in real life, such as age or location, by checking information you provide against public records.

Why do we need it?
 Identity verification provides an additional layer of trust for in-world businesses and Residents. It also helps ensure that minors can not gain access to inappropriate content in Second Life or have access to restricted content in-world.

How does it work? Residents will provide a few simple details about their identity – generally, name, date of birth, and address. Additionally, Residents will be asked to provide specific identifying information, such as, for example, a driver’s license number, passport or national ID card number, or the last four digits of a social security number (this is dependent on where geographically the Resident is based). This is then cross-checked against pre-existing databases of public record, to verify relevant aspects of a Resident’s identity.

Do I have to submit to identity verification?
 No. This is completely voluntary. For example, you need only provide age verification if you choose to enter areas in Second Life that have been flagged as having restricted content.

What do you mean by “flagged as having restricted content”? Estate and parcel owners will be requested to flag the presence of restricted content on their land. Access to that area will then be restricted to verified Residents only. Flagging restricted areas provides notice to adults that content contained in the area may be objectionable to them. It also provides an added layer of protection against minors who have gained unauthorized access to the world of Second Life.

Why are you doing this now? 
The growing popularity of Second Life gives rise to the need to add measures of security so that Second Life remains a safe environment for all Residents. We also want to make sure that Residents have the tools they need to interact with the community in a way that works for them. This is a more effective way of identification than ‘payment information on file’, which some Residents use to evaluate whether they can trust another individual.

What documents do I need to prove my identity?
 Exact documents may vary depending on your country of residence, but may include:
passport, driver’s license, national ID number or social security number.

I’m outside the US. Does it work the same in each country? 
The exact information required for identity verification may vary from country to country, but the system works in generally the same way around the world.

What types of activities in Second Life will require age verification?
 Access to areas that Residents and businesses have flagged as containing restricted content will require age verification.

Who will need to verify their age?
 Anyone wishing to access restricted content will need to verify their age in advance. Just like going into a bar – you need to prove your age.

What if I’m under 18?
 Minors are not allowed in Second Life. Please access Teen Second Life to enjoy Second Life if you are under 18. Only Residents between the ages of 13 and 17 will be allowed to access Teen Second Life.

What if I want to remain anonymous?
 Residents over the age of 18 can still remain anonymous if they wish to remain in areas of Second Life that do not contain restricted content. Identity verification will only be required at this time for access to restricted content.

What if adult content is not flagged as restricted?
 We strongly encourage land holders to flag any restricted content and restrict their parcels to avoid minors inadvertently accessing it. If Residents and businesses choose not to do this, we expect that such behavior will be reported by the community itself. As has always been the case, Residents are morally, socially and legally responsible for their actions and content in Second Life. Clearly, any illegal activity or content will be investigated and appropriate action will be taken.

What personal information will you store? Linden Lab will not store any specific, identifying information. Our verification provider will assess the consistency of the provided information and return a match code; at that point, a Resident becomes verified. The entire process takes less than two minutes, and will be available internationally. Our verification provider will only use information to provide a match code and the only information stored by Linden Lab will be whether or not there was a match.

Do I have to pay for verification?
 Verification will initially be free; as we roll out the system we expect there to be a nominal fee for Premium members, and a larger fee for people with Basic memberships.

Do I have to verify each avatar I use? You will have to verify each separate avatar that you use, but there are no limits on the number of avatars you can have verified. This can all be done under the ‘my account’ section of the Second Life Web site.

As a parcel/estate owner, how do I flag content as ‘restricted’?
 Land owners will find a check box in their land management tools that they will be able to check if they have restricted content on their land. To find this, in the Second Life viewer, go to World > About Land > Options. There’s a check box called Restricted Content under Land Options.

What is defined as “Restricted Content”?
 We trust that common sense will prevail. As a general rule, “Restricted Content” is any content that is explicitly sexual or excessively violent in nature.

What happens if I don’t flag my restricted content? 
We believe that most landowners will want to take steps to prevent minors being exposed to restricted content. All content creators and businesses are morally and legally responsible for their activities. We strongly advise landowners to take advantage of these tools to prevent inappropriate use by those who may have accessed the adult grid using fraudulent information. Land containing adult content that is not clearly marked will be easily identifiable by the community. This will enable the community to raise concerns directly with the landowner or with Linden Lab via the Abuse channel. The burden of responsibility lies with the parcel and estate owner for the content displayed and activities offered on their land. The identity verification system provides those owners with the means to protect themselves, their customers and visitors.

Doesn’t payment information count as age verification? Payment information was never meant to be proof of age. In fact, credit cards are not restricted to people over the age of 18, nor are credit cards available in all countries. In the past, we have recognized accounts as verified when we receive complete payment information; however, this process does not serve as a substitute for age verification.

What happens if I experience problems when I try and verify my identity? We are committed to making sure the process is as smooth and user-friendly as possible, however, we understand that this represents a change for Residents. We have also tested the system extensively with our systems provider, Integrity, which has a great track record of delivering this type of technology to other companies. Issues should be directed to the SL support portal.

How can I be sure that my information will be treated securely when I enter it on the ‘my account’ section? The data will be transmitted securely via SSL (Secure Socket Layer) to Integrity. This is a standard, secure way of transmitting data over the Web, and is used by many online businesses. For example, if you’ve ever paid a bill online, chances are it was with SSL in place.

Will my personal information ever be shared with anyone else? Linden Lab does not share Resident data for marketing or other purposes, but does of course comply with requests from all governmental and regulatory authorities and with court orders including subpoenas.

About Robin Linden

Be the Change. You must be the change you wish to see in the world. ---Mahatma Gandhi
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157 Responses to Identity Verification Comes to Second Life

  1. Cat Gisel says:

    Hoooo boy. While I realize this is important, I am going to have to find shelter till the exodus (stampede) is over…

  2. Blinders Off says:

    /me laughs at yet another half-done pseudo-effort of problem solving.

  3. Chrysala says:

    OMG here it is. glad i’ve not gone premium yet, and won’t be now.

    minors aren’t allowed, but we have to protect minors

    to be trusted in second life, bring your full first life in.

    integrity, the politically-connected company got it’s wedge in, and will split second life asunder.

    it will initially be free for me to log into my home sim if i act fst, otherwise i’ll have to pay… way to make it “optional”.

    cancelling all ads now.

    “well, have the integrity, it’s not got much scam in it…”

    “I DON”T LIKE SCAM!”

    bleah.

  4. Maybe Someothertime says:

    So…if someone wanted to try this out, where do you do? What’s the URL to give your info for verification, and what’s the in-world interface for verifying if someone is over 18 & whatever else they allow you to see?

  5. Toad Mougin says:

    You say that “Linden Lab does not share Resident data for marketing or other purposes”, can someone from LindenLab state for the record that Integrity will do the same??

  6. Phil Priestman says:

    This still doesn’t change the fact that asking for people’s passports, social security numbers, etc is illegal in many countries and given the level of technical abilitities keeping SL up and running, can we really trust them to keep our personal information secure?

  7. waterstar eilde says:

    I think a little information about the third party provider, Aristotle, would be courteous at the very least, rather than one throwaway mention of their name. As a non-US resident, I’m certainly not handing over personal identity details without more knowledge of who I’m dealing with. If this then means I’m further restricted in what I can and can’t do in Second Life, it will raise the issue of whether it’s all worth it.

  8. Jen Shikami says:

    I am sure we’ll once again see a slew of people complaining about how their anonymity would be shattered if they had to confirm they’re over 18.

    Personally I have NO issue with verifying that, but it is their perogative to decide not to confirm it.

    And correspondingly, it’s estate owners’ perogative to decide whether they want those folks accessing their content, so hey. It all works out.

    I’m glad LL is offering us (residents and businesses) this tool. The last thing I want to see is some innocent resident getting busted for cybering someone who turns out to be under 18. The *assumption* that everyone is over 18 in this environment wouldn’t protect you legally…

  9. Robin said: (their name, age, location and sex for instance)

    There will be verification of gender, Robin? This will open up MANY in the genderqueer community to bigotry and harassment, moreso than voice can.

  10. Jen Shikami says:

    P.S.: Of course we’ll want more detail on the identity check provider, but again… remember that these are forms of ID people use on a daily basis and show to random potentially questionable businesses in real-life all the time… businesses that often make a photocopy that ends up god knows where.

    Since unlike a lot of businesses, they assert that they’re not storing the information, I’m not too concerned. Just a little assurance that this is a legit biz and has procedures in place to protect the info will be enough for me.

  11. Jen Shikami says:

    Kristian@#8, it sounds like you can choose to verify parts of the information and not others. Since the only one that ties in to land flagging is the age flag, I imagine a lot of people will verify for that flag alone.

  12. waterstar eilde says:

    Perhaps we could have a little revolution happening here… if verification is truly voluntary, and landowners are only ‘strongly encouraged’ to flag restricted content, what happens if all we residents refuse to play ball… ? Our world, our imagination…

  13. Will we also have the ability to ban people from our land who HAVE verified?

  14. No. I look at this is a significant security weakness. In this age of identity theft, there is no way I’ll provide a possible chance for this to happen. I look at it also as the first step in taxing the monetary exchanges. No way. My properties are up for sale. Prices will be dropped every day until they are gone, and then I will simply delete my account. Land that is unsold will be abandoned. Sorry folks. RL and SL need to be separate. Move your servers to some other country that doesn’t require such levels of scrutiny. My premium account comes due shortly. It will be downgraded before then, and credit card info removed. Oh yes, in RL I am 60. Nothing to hide here..

  15. angel Scarborough says:

    i for one am happy to see this. There are so many on SL who see it as nothing but a game and see nothing wrong with deceiving others. Thus a person has to work so hard to prove that you actually are who you say you are. i will be quite happy to provide the data that will prove to other residents in ways that they can trust that in real life i am a 49 year old woman. (i.e., not a man playing a woman, not a 16 year old pretending to be an adult.) i have nothing to hide and i am glad LL is giving us a way that others can trust to show who we really are as deception unfortunately seems to be the norm for so many on SL. They forget that the avatar they are talking to is actually controlled by a real live human with real feelings who can be hurt by deception and lies.

    so yay LL, and thank you (p.s. i first joined SL in December 2005 (as Stumblinn Giles, now deleted and replaced by my angel Scarborough account) so i have been around long enough to know much of the good and bad.

  16. Vika Jewell says:

    They state it will be different for each country someone resides in. What will happen though to someone who for example- is a U.S. Citizen and therefore has a social security number or a passport number for a different country, but lives in a foreign country and does not have the required identifying document required for that IP address? They need to make it flexible for such occurrences. I foresee long hours on the telephone wading through lindon support just to walk into an adult club.

  17. Chaos Kilara says:

    Trust is important but even people who say their true name can still lie about information! If you have a business in SL you should not be lie to customers in the first place!!!!!!!!! I not against identity verification system, sometimes its a good thing other times its not. IVS could be handy with griefers, and going to adult restricted parcels/regions. I dont think giving the Last for digits of your SSN to LL is the best idea ,even tho its one part of the SSN.

  18. Zephy Toshihiko says:

    I notice that landowners are ‘strongly encourage’ in one part and ‘requested’ in another. Looks like although it will be ‘volentary’ if land is not set the owners will be told very firmley to do so!

  19. Chrysala says:

    @Jen#3

    It’s not a tool, it’s a rule. The ban list is a tool. This is not.

    They’ve already :
    “complied with requests from all governmental and regulatory authorities and with court orders including subpoenas.”

    including narc’ing folks doing nothing illegal, and without having this.

    why add it? can you say politically-connected pork-barrel rape?

    i’m not going to go live in PG land, and i’m not giving this company (aristotle’s integrity) squat.

    if i lose access to zones for that, i’m leaving as well.

    I’m over 18 and not a friend of Big Brother.

    You don’t fool me, people will still pull scams, and you’ll do nothing more about it than before.

    No one is protected and we are all less free and less safe with this measure. The blurb at the beginning is a lame attempt to gloss over the old “broadly offensive” faux pas.

    I got grief from premiums, AR’d, no result. this system will do NOTHING positive (to us), but will bring integrity another illustrious client and kill the metverse as we know it.

    conformity is imagination. surrender is safety. war is peace.

    welcome to the new SL.,

    Your matrix pod, No imagination.

  20. Mattie Hansen says:

    I have right now verified and it was smooth and fast, just took the time to fill the few fields and press the “verify” button to have a prompt answer of “verification completed successfully”. I live in Italy and just picked the ID from the dropdown list of possibilities and filled with my Italian ID card number. Other infos are the same i already filled when registering my account on SL, which are name, address, date of birth.
    Easy and fast.

  21. Cinthya Vavoom says:

    Here we go.. Pushing Second life into Real life some more. Soon this should be renamed into Second Real life.

    So much for what second life was supposed to be “a second life”

    I can see many people who are 18 years and a whole lot older leaving over this.

    Good way to destroy SL. Thanks LL yet agian you do more damage then good Can’t wait until some other company makes a better version of SL you’ll out of bunsiess then.

  22. Garthrim Ranger says:

    Two questions;
    You state that Linden Labs does not share resident information for marketing purposes, does Integrity? They are the ones collecting my personal information.

    Also, In the interests of anonimity, Do other residents see this information ? If I verify will other residents see my RL name, age gender,etc. . if it is just a verified / not verified field on the profile that may be acceptable

  23. For one, i never intend to complete this “age verification”.
    It’s a shame LL does this.
    I do manage an larger SL company after all, and this forces me to rethink my stance in the SL community.

    Thinking that the total i pay to LL monthly is on the 2,000USD range (via 2 accounts), might give an idea of the size of my business in SL.

    This is total bullshit, you, me and everyone else knows that.

    Unfortunately, the gambling ban lately, and this on top of it, might ultimately lead to the death of Second Life. Atleast, it has resulted to the death of Second Life as we know it. We, The Users. We, Who pays the LL’s salaries!

    We have been betrayed with marketing gimmicks like, “Your imagination”, correct slogan should be like “Your imagination, into the extend we approve”.

    All the recent activity from LL has forced many SL businesses to close-down, many to bankrupt, and some to quit because of ethical reasons, and there is no end in sight for this.

    Big Brother is Watching YOU.

    This is totally ridiculous. Where has common sense gone?

    Since when TOS didn’t mean a thing?
    TOS clearly outlines that users of SL are responsible for themselves, and L$ is “play money”, THUS, why this and gambling ban?

    This is again a “business decision” right? A stupid one at that.

    I know many great people have quit SL because of things like this, along with corruption inside LL, and along with the lacking customer service etc.

    When is this going to stop? I say: Never, until SL is completely dead.

    Into what GOOD will this result?
    Hopefully, someday, resident run businesses can verify other person’s identity. That could help.

    But the fact remains: This has more negative sides than positives. Negatives outweigh really hardly the positives.

    Good bye SL as we know it.

    Can we say also good bye to SL economy & SL business?

    Might this lead to 0 or negative growth of SL? Possible.

    A lot remains to be seen, to the worse or to the better.

    One thing is certain however: Once again, no forewarning what so ever. This is sickening!

    and never mind the usual LL tactic: post something bad, and within 10minutes, post something else to cover it up.

  24. Hmmm This should be interesting. So the third party developing this IDV system for Linden Lab, will they have same policy of protecting our personal info? sure they don’t store the data but what do they do with it?
    While it seems like a good idea and I am sure it is needed. I would caution everyone to be careful with just what exact information they share. Lets not forget some of us have been hacked several times in SL and have had credit card info comprimised. So security is only as good as those handeling the information.

  25. Chrysala says:

    integrity DOES NOT have the same policy as SL, read their site. i got to fuming when i did after they first reluctantly revealed them (then went silent till now fter the uproar).

    I DO NOT WANT ANYTHING TO DO WITH INTEGRITY!!!!

    and the “free for limited time” is an appeal to comsumer instincts to populate list fast and create resident consensus or the appearance thereof.

  26. Tim Gagliano says:

    Quick little observation… and this is constructive critisism… what safeguards are in place to protect our information seeing that this is developed by a 3rd party. I am not trying to scare up anyone… But this is how people hacked Direct TV, ExpressVU and other user pay systems. 3rd party leaks are common in the business wolrd when 3rd parties are contracted to develop. Without going into specifics, what safeguards are in place?

  27. Zephy Toshihiko says:

    I agree that the ‘free initially’ is an attempt to get people to use it. I am relactant to use this system until I see how it all works etc but would be even more reluctant to have to pay to use it.

  28. Robin Linden says:

    @8 Kristin: The mention of gender was an example, and should that option become available it would be purely voluntary.

    @18, 19 Muscrat and Chrysala: Integrity is contractually obligated to perform the matching service and that’s it. They will not store any personally identifying information, nor will we.

  29. Cinthya Vavoom says:

    This is nothing about “Turst” As LL is trying to mask it as. its them wanting more perosnial info and that company INTEGRITY sells this kind of info. and LL is getting a cut form it.

    its about money not really about age or idenity verifaction.

    You all know how greedy LL is.

  30. nid cetteneo says:

    this is the beginning of the end of freedom, not only for SL but also for the whole web, it’s a sad day…

  31. Laverne Donat says:

    I agree with waterstar eilde, and would like to see some information about Aristotle. Whatever my personal feelings on this move are, I’d like to know a bit more about the company handling my personal details.

  32. Zephy Toshihiko says:

    I guess this is the company they will use
    http://integrity.aristotle.com/

  33. Liekie Ivory says:

    No way I am not gonna give my personal details for verification. I don’t trust the stating that all data such as driverslisence or passportnr. won’t be stored. The american government is way over the line in the fight against terrorism by wanting to take control of everything. They allready own the data of our european internetbehaviour, they allready own important data like creditcardnr. and payments, passportnumr, etc. of european tourist. I don’t want them to own my personal data.
    If this agverification thing influences SL too much, I mean if that means I cannot enter a lot of sims in future anymore it will mean for me unfortunately game over in SL.

  34. Chrysala says:

    the page for integrity on demand will not currently appear….

    http://integrity.aristotle.com/index.php_option=com_content&task=view&id=24&Itemid=32.html

    interesting that it be off today.

    Robin: that’s not at all the impression i got from their site when i checked it last time… right when you revealed them as provider of IDV.

    In fact i found their doublespeak quite disturbing and their connections moreso.

  35. Linda Brynner says:

    This is a funny discussion, maybe higher math, hihih. Minors are not allowed in SL, ehhh so why verifying then on age. It’s going to be quiet a challenge, because in the Netherlands we are not allowed to share a social security, passport or ID numbers via internet in anyway. Why can’t you setup a system as PayPal has or something, or submit a private security code connected to the account information, credit card or last numbers of a bank account.
    Well, just a thought

  36. Pingback: Linden Lab jumps the shark « Sio’s Second Life

  37. Chrysala says:

    i Want to know the method.

    we give ll info. this generates a code where, and when is the info itself deleted?

    just a code is kept on both sides? our info will be removed from system immediately after code generation? it lasts less than a couple minutes in the system any system, yours integrity’s or aristotle’s (aristotle sells personal data lists, folks…)?

    if the case is any other than this it is unaceptable.

  38. Stryker Jenkins says:

    Who or what is Aristotle? If I would have to “trust” them I need more info about them, don’t you think…

  39. Chug Dynamo says:

    And tell me, Lindens, do the people who use Second Life want this? Look at the comments here… How many people would leave? I wouldn’t want to verify with Integrity, that’s for sure.

    What exactly is there to stay for? The stable grid? The lag-free zones? You’re gonna lose a lot of users, we’re not puppets and you can’t pull this crap on your userbase without their opinion.

  40. Selkit Diller says:

    We knew this was coming, and we knew they would attempt it anyways. So where shall we start… as a Canadian citizen, the following ID formats are unacceptable for online use:

    – The ‘SIN’ (Social Insurance Number)
    – Passport
    – Driver’s license

    As a Canadian, I cannot verify, and if this results in denial of services for a product which I initially purchased under a different contract (My simulator), I will be contacting my barristor to ask about recourse on the basis of nationality-discrimination. All other residents, I encourage you to do the same, on the basis that if Linden cannot provide a suitable, global solution for a global environment, then they should not undertake half-measures likely to destroy or damage the world we the residents have created for them.

  41. Bedsee says:

    this is bs, why don’t YOU ask more than a flippin’ e-mail address to enter the adult grid? what a nightmare this is going to be, might as well send invitations to the teen grid to come join. i’ll be looking for a new chat, one that at least has the good sense to protect the kids by requiring some cc or payment info. been here, done this…have the tbux to prove it, i will not stay in a chat where babysitting is compulsory.

  42. Iskar Ariantho says:

    Uhm.

    > • What if I’m under 18?
 Minors are not allowed in Second Life. Please access Teen > Minors are not allowed in Second Life. Please access Teen Second Life to enjoy
    > Second Life if you are under 18. Only Residents between the ages of 13 and 17
    > will be allowed to access Teen Second Life.

    Why do landowners still have to flag their lands as restricted, as there soon will be no minors left in SL?? Can we assume the the restricted flagging is a temp. stopgap for the intermediate time when not everybody is verified? Since that requirement will surely be the next logical step to implement.

  43. Lolita Abel says:

    All this does is shift responsibility from LL to the land owner. If you are a land owner, you have 2 choices – do not restrict and hope that no one in the entire real world will find anything on/in your land offensive, or play it safe and restrict your land to shelter yourself from all minors worldwide. DUH! Restricted will become the de-facto standard on the grid, unless the landowner has an army of lawyers available. So no, it’s not voluntary unless your only intent is to visit PG sims only.

    Second, Aristotle is a politically oriented data-mining organization. This means they already have the identity of probably 70% of the US and 40% of the world population. Verify with them and they will add one more to their database. By verifying with Aristotle, you are confirming the info they already have is true, or providing them with new data that they will then sell to whoever pays. Oh and if you check their website, you will see that they are Patriot Act compliant. This means if any US government entity asks for info, they’ll turn it over without even an attempt at due process – no questions asked. US players – the IRS is a government entity, are you declaring your SL income???

    Big Brother comes to SL!! You can thank their lawyers for this shift of responsibility. Looks like the landowners just got screwed – HARD!

  44. Jadzia Lunardi says:

    #22 Robin Linden

    How do you know they won’t store it?
    Is it in the contract you have with them?
    What penalties will be assessed if they do store it?
    What remedies do we have if they store it, it gets hacked and we’re victims of ID theft?
    Can we see the contract? Why not?
    Also, who is paying them to do this verification? If it’s free or for a nominal fee, the residents aren’t paying them. Are you asking us to believe that LL is paying for possibly thousands of residents to be verified? Or, is Integrity’s payment the ability to develop a huge database of people to sell to whoever wants it?

  45. Jes Bergbahn says:

    Push this sorry excuse of “protection” through, and say goodbye to yet ANOTHER of your paying costumers.

    My name, payment status and CC is more than enough. Any attempt at stating otherwise goes against the very existance of every cc-accepting PAY-2-USE service currently existing on the internet.

    As for Integrity, a company that has been caught redhanded LEAKING private user information… No thanks, keep your filth to yourselves.

  46. waterstar eilde says:

    Once you’ve fought your way through the marketing hyperspeak, a couple of glaring ambiguities emerge. We are told that personal information provided will not be passed on, yet Robin talks about establishing trust by ‘removing a layer of anonymity for those they interact with’ and ‘details residents ‘may wish to share about themselves publicly’. Do you actually know whether you mean to keep all this information private, Robin?

    Additionally, LL appears to be incapable of offering a precise definition of ‘Restricted Content’, which is about as descriptive as ‘Broadly Offensive’. As for ‘we trust that common sense will prevail’ – whose ‘common sense’, where, when? Any thinking person knows this such a supposition is highly subjective. Ah, but not to worry – we’ll throw that decision back on the residents, then leave it up to the narrow-minded wowsers in SL to AR anything they don’t like, absolving ourselves of any responsibility for the outcome.

    Like Uechi, I’m in an age bracket where I’ve seen too much water pass under too many bridges to be all-trusting and leap at this wonderful opportunity. As for the transparently puerile device of threatening my hip pocket if I don’t do it while it’s free, it’s simply an insult to intelligence.

  47. Jamie David says:

    1984 is upon us. Fix bugs not add more hassles. People getting locked out for transactions, transactions that don’t go through. These ponzi scams they call Banking and Markets. These are what needs fixed looked into.

    The community and economy have taken enough battering over the past few months, now to be hit with a verification system it will send the transactions per day down by half yet again.

    All this security, rules and 3rd Party companies does not sound like something that would entice new users. Tis all getting very complex. I would have thought the feed back from the users was very clear on that.

    There are so so many troubles with lack of security of personal information. Bleeding across databases, files being left in the trash, lost or stolen. Once again there are no assurances of Protection or Privicy. What is the process for securing this data? Prohibiting it from being used for marketing or election data?

    Is Integrity an “age verification company”, a sub division of Aristotle a US Political polling firm the company doing the Verification as previously announced? If so their only selling point is “Insured and Guaranteed (merchants using Integrity, are indemnified for violations of laws relating to underage access)”.

    Their only actual example of their work is Bud.tv which remains a joke. Any name, any zip and you get in. I am honestly disgusted that they would show it as an example and let it remain as so for over 3 months. Any 10 year old could walk through that. Seems to me that they are not quite what they say. Sounds like the mob and protection money.

    The protection of voter data does not seem to be high on the list of Aristotle. Anyone with a creditcard can buy. Frightning they offer for a few $.

    Where are the details about all this? Who is doing it? How responsible is this 3rd party company? What is their Track Record? What other systems have they done? This latest posting honestly tells us even less than before. Just another rattling of the cage. Are we goign to war? Who are the enemy?

    Enough of big brother, let us have the plumber.

  48. jdtrue writer says:

    GOOD it has been so long since the last time this topic was talked about I thought it may have been dead….

    Good all the nay Sayers can leave (more room for us that don’t live under the paranoid umbrella)….

    Don’t you people ever get tired of predicting the end of SL????? What part of voluntary don’t you get? It means if you don’t like it or don’t want to use it then DON”T. Now if that stops you from doing something in SL you like then you have a choice but it is still a choice!

    I am still waiting for SL to shut down after the first land removal.
    I am still waiting for SL to shut down after the casino removal….

  49. Don’t see the big problem here, but seems a lot of people are just looking for something to complain about always. It is a tool, use it if you want or don’t, that simple. True you get hesitant about giving your Drivers License info over, but really how many times in my life have I handed my ID to some bouncer at a bar, and they are even scanning them now, or as someone else said had this info photocopied and stored god knows where.

    What would worry me is if this is a first step towards a mandatory system, but they have made no indication of that and for now I will take LL word on that. There have been many problems with the platform, but we are all still here for a reason, because you cant get this anywhere else. All in all I think LL has done a great job taking the lead and developing a unique platform and trying to protect that for all of us. Job well done Lindens….you do have some supporters out there.

  50. Stephanie Misfit says:

    OK, verified painlessly. Took all of about a minute with an Australian driver’s license. And as for the cost issue, I would imagine that LL are paying to use this service, not “taking a cut” for giving away our personal information.

  51. “A beta of the IDV system is open initially to all estate owners from today, who are free to verify their identities. Once the beta period is complete the system will be available to all Residents. Access to Restricted parcels will be prohibited for non-verified avatars from that time.”

    Where???

    I’ll do it because I feel that I must. What I don’t understand is because SL is for people over the age of 18 WHY did we not put this information in WHEN we STARTED? Wouldn’t you want to verify someone coming onto SL to make sure they really are over the age of 18 before letting them come on anyways? And doesn’t this try to cover your ass by putting something, that should have been done from the begining when people signed up, on the backs of landowners? We put money in the pockets of LL by paying monthly tiers yet we are made responsible as LL washes their hands, covers their asses, and leaves the rest of us out to dry? Shady shady shady.

  52. Chrysala says:

    @ 35 etc

    it’s not a tool. I lose access if i don’t use it. nothing voluntary there, i have access now, lose it once this is implememnted.

    that’s like saying it’s not obligatory to turn on your pc, stop being silly.

    this is a rule, not a tool. the ban list is a tol for land owners, this is a rule for residents. wake up.

  53. Pepper Haas says:

    Thank you!! Tired of these nine year-olds running around

  54. Pingback: Tenth Life : Identity verification

  55. Delgado Cinquetti says:

    To reveal our ‘true’ selves? WOW! I only come here to live a virtual life , a second life. My RL has never been the issue of focus, in my imaginative little world. Who I am, the real person, is really nobody’s damned business. Are you sure this isn’t all being influenced by Homeland Security? Damn, there I go imagining things again! Oops!

  56. Balp Allen says:

    In what countries will this not, work? What shall residents of these places do?

    I think the PG/Mature stuff already is really hard to get correct around the world, with clashed between cultures already. I hope I will not need to provide any any more info to enjoy SL, not that I’m that secret My name and google will give you my rl name, address and much much more…. I strongly argue all land owners to think twice about this it’s not mandatory to ban people… It is mandatory for all residents of SL to be above 18.

    The best method to stop this is not to play balls, this to ignore the possibility.

  57. Megan says:

    Will there be a way to verify you are over 18 but not give an exact age ….? I would like to go into area’s that maybe require verifacation , and do not feel it is anyone elses bussniess to know exactly how old I am .. Tho I do belive they should be albe to know for sure that, I am over 18… I didn’t come to SL , to share my R/L info with strangers .. LOL I came to have a “Second life” .. were I can be 25 or 2500 years old…

  58. Jen Shikami says:

    Just tried out the age verification form. It was my name, address, and last 4 of my SSN. Very non-traumatic and I’ve already given this same info to eBay, PayPal, etc. etc.

    I don’t mind, so I did it. Other people do mind, so they don’t. Just don’t use businesses that require it if you have an issue with it… inside SL or out.

    By analogy, lots of people also don’t want to use a credit card online, which is also their perogative and they choose to accept how that limits their dealings. My take is, you’re much more likely to lose your credit card number to some unscrupulous waiter in RL. 😉

  59. Balp Allen says:

    @38 Pepper:

    The problem is that most these nine years old fuckers have the possibility to steal moms of dads id card…. If the not them self already is above 18 physically.

  60. SL Player™ says:

    How will this show on a profile that a resident has verified?

  61. @37

    You loose access if a land owner decides he doesn’t want someone on his land that is not verified. You don’t loose access as soon as this is implemented only if the land owner decides to use this TOOL made available. And you can VOLUNTARILY decide what, if any, information to display.

    A RULE would be everyone has to be verified, which I like that idea actually, maybe help with all of the idiots and greifers running around. Just make it voluntary to display my personal information.

    I am not a fan of big brother at all, but its here and ain’t going away any time soon unfortunately.

  62. Argent Stonecutter says:

    I do not believe that this is necessary, and if implemented it should not include anything but “is this person over 18”. I don’t believe that Linden Labs should make it possible for people to be pressured to reveal *anything* about their real identities. If someone doesn’t want to be treated as a geezer or a kid (or a man or a woman, or an American or a Slav, or a human or a dog) that’s their call… not Linden Labs.

    Note that I said ‘make it possible for people to be pressured to reveal’… not ‘require people to reveal’. Even if it’s not required people will be pressured to include real-life information in their profiles, and once that information is there for anyone to see it will be abused.

    This is not a copy of your drivers license locked in a filing cabinet in a bar, this is your drivers license branded on your forehead.

    If we could trust all however million people in Second Life with this information, then we wouldn’t need to log on with an alias at all. Second Life doesn’t even LET people log in with their real name, unless they’re very lucky. No, this is a tool to promote stalking and identity theft, not trust.

    AT the very least, it should cost to get information OUT of the system, not to put information IN.

  63. Ralph Doctorow says:

    Hmm, Integrity actually doesn’t even discuss what they will do with information they gather about people they verify. They only say they won’t disclose customer’s information gathered at that website itself, nothing is said about the people they verify.

    http://integrity.aristotle.com/index.php_option=com_content&task=view&id=45&Itemid=58.html

  64. Dione Bingyi says:

    Hmmm…I need an ID to get in a bar true, the owner of that bar however does not make a copy of the info. on my ID after it’s presented, I think it’s fool hardy and dangerous to ask for such personal information in cyber space. Every intelligent entity I’ve heard from strongly advises that personal information NOT be given on line, and to beware of any agency, corporation, or entity asking for personal info. I can shop objectionable material, download age sensitive paraphenalia, and more on line without ever having to give more that credit card information. Why? because these businesses that are in the practice of protecting minors have excellent lawyers who have designed agreements to save them if someone underage views these websites. Kids are smart, they will always find a way to get in where they shouldn’t, I’m smart too, and no one will get my personal information. Sounds to me like LL should get a good contract attorney.

  65. Erasmus Hartunian says:

    The concept is fundamentally flawed and dangerous as it instill false confidence:
    The documents are verified, NOT the person submitting them. Most kids live with parents and have easy access to their parent’s identifications. Further more, unlike credit card usage, the parents are unlikely to ever know that their kids have used their IDs.
    It is dangerous because land owners are going to operate on the misconception that the person has been verified, which it has not. Kids who want to get in 18+ areas are precisely the ones who are going to use their parents IDs to get in.
    The only method of age/identity verification that works is “in situ”. Even banks have not figured out a secure way to do this without requiring a visit to a branch.

  66. Sensual Fold says:

    I am married to a Canadian and YES u can use your SIN# (SS#) on the internet we do it all the time when applying for credit cards on the net. Not sure where half these people get their information but it would be alot smarter to look it up and learn before posting things, but then again, its alot easy to gripe on a blog than research 🙂

  67. Argent Stonecutter says:

    “I’ll do it because I feel that I must.”

    Why do you feel you must?

    I won’t, and I urge you not to, unless something happens that forces you to. You don’t have to protest it, but don’t passively acquiesce either.

  68. Midnigh tShinja says:

    what garuntee do we have that this identity information is secure.? Does this mean that our rl names will be published on our profiles, and if so whats the purpose of having a sl name? cmon people this is ridiculous. first you tell us simulated gambling is not allowed. then u add voice to a fantasy game, now we have to tell the world who we are and air out our identities for any savvy thief to take and ruin our credit. lets get this mess sorted out lindens.

  69. Tamara says:

    Provide info to enable trust…. So is the information we provide (reluctantly) going to be avaliable to all other residents and landowners, or will it be destroyed after verification? You seem to say both will be happening….and that’s just not possible.

  70. Lelle Kidd says:

    “Verification will initially be free; as we roll out the system we expect there to be a nominal fee for Premium members, and a larger fee for people with Basic memberships.”

    “A beta of the IDV system is open initially to all estate owners from today, who are free to verify their identities. Once the beta period is complete the system will be available to all Residents.”

    As I am not an “estate owner”, just a common Resident,
    how much do I have to pay to prove that I´m within legal age to use Second Life?

    Why do only estate owners get the verification for free?

  71. Gil Druart says:

    This is almost certainly illegal under UK and European Data Protection Acts. Are Linden Labs asking Europeans to behave illegally?

  72. Mirah McGuire says:

    Since minors are NOT allowed on the Adult grid.. WHY do we have to guard against minors seeing “restricted content”… they arent allowed to BE here… it isnt OUR job to keep em out, LL.. its yours.. why punish us? this is the most amazingly ass backwards way of doing ANYthing that i have ever heard of.. you wont be getting my personal information.. now or ever…. i would love to get my 72 bucks back but fat chance that will happen eh? there will be an exodus… and i am hoping most content creators will refuse to restrict their stuff.. if they do, i have a feeling they will be losing major business … BAD MISTAKE LINDENS.. very very bad… you are making other online worlds look better and better all the time.

  73. Mykh says:

    Well, so much can be said:
    – On one hand no one, including Linden Labs needs lawsuits based on indecent exposure. That is the plainer aspect.
    – Secondly, Linden and/or whoever it subcontracts with will then have a lot of information that can be used to make profiles, market research data, you name it.
    – When one hears of Lindens playing with standard characters outside their Linden functions and using their knowledge to get an edge, isn’t it possible that they will get user data? Who checks this?

    quote
    Linden Lab will not be storing this data and nor will the third party verification specialist, Aristotle.

    Well, that could be, I suppose… will anyone audit this? As you know, just 1 person in the loop has to make 1 copy. “Idoneous institutions” is really just a marketing term.

    – Also, some appeal of this concept is that it is a definable world. One appears and is as chosen, within the provided options – the fact that RL data is provided kills this freedom.

    -quote-
    Identity verification will only be required “at this time” for access to restricted content.

    Well, that is a big little expression in there. Indeed, as Zephy says, one estimates the pressure to comply will suddenly increase totally.

    -quote-
    Linden Lab does not share Resident data for marketing or other purposes, but does of course comply with requests from all governmental and regulatory authorities and with court orders including subpoenas.

    Well, consistency check – if you don’t store information, how can you provide this?

    Doom and woe.

    Mykh

  74. Samara Barzane says:

    My main concern lies with what of our information will be given to another resident. I’m not playing games here, but other than determining that I am “of age”. my personal information is mine to control.

    As for what is used. The last four digits of the SS# are often used to verify identity in the US when you are dealing with certain service providers both netwise and on the phone.

    The lack of clarity is troublesome, but then I have found that geeks are often clueless about what the rest of us non-geeks find concerning. They aren’t less moral, they often just don’t have a range of life-experiences outside the screen that enables them to identify with the concerns of those that do. So I hope that LL will hear the real concerns of the real people behind the cleverly designed pixels.

  75. Well, what if I just provide the information from someone else? For a kid it would not be that difficult to access his parents ID’s and use that as an identification method. It would actually make it more believable that they’re adults while in reality, they are not.
    So personally? I don’t see how this system would ever work. LL will just collect a lot more personal information which can be used for datamining, combined with the behaviour of the related avatars within SL. I do value my privacy a lot and if I have to give it up just to be able to play SL, I *might* prefer to just have a refund for all my assets within SL and end my membership.

    You only use it to verify my age? And no one is collecting this data for any other purposes? Can you guarantee this for a full 100%?
    Same dilemma with Google. Google keeps track of all search queries and can relate them to specific IP addresses. Even better, it can track them to specific GMail accounts too when people are logged in to the web interface. And Google is using this to provide specific advertisements to visitors and for a lot more that we don’t know about. But age verification? It’s a good excuse but it still sounds like a data mining strategy to me.

  76. Argent Stonecutter says:

    Oh, by the way.

    “What happens if I don’t flag my restricted content? 
We believe that most landowners will want to take steps to prevent minors being exposed to restricted content. All content creators and businesses are morally and legally responsible for their activities.”

    Where are you getting this “most landowners” from anyway?

    I don’t have any restricted content on my land or in my stores, I don’t believe most landowners have any restricted content on their land. I don’t believe most businesses have restricted content for sale. And I don’t think that you should be implying that “most landowners” should pay any damn attention to this at all.

  77. GoogleMama says:

    Let’s see, Sensual…. at least half a dozen other Canadians have said it is NOT allowed, YOU say it IS allowed… so that makes all of THEM out of step and YOU right….

    Perhaps we should consider that you and your husband are the ones doing wrong. Despite your protest that you have “researched” the information, you do not provide any evidence other than your say so, and you, it seems, are already in the wrong… Not the first time either, I’m sure…

    It does Mama’s heart good to see that there are only a handful of the fanbois here, while everyone else sees things for what they are…

    Yes, it does Mama’s heart good….. And Trolls need good heart feelings now and then…

  78. Vint Falken says:

    Third party company?

    What third party company? And where is their disclaimer about how they’ll treat our information. For once – and just for once – I’d feel more safe leaving my identity information with Linden Labs then with a third party. :d

  79. Omi Yip says:

    I verified – umm.. yay?

    Got this in my email, so I should still be annoymous right?

    “We’ve engaged the services of a third party provider, Aristotle’s Integrity, who will match information that Residents provide with information available in public records. You will be asked to provide your name, geographic location, birthdate, and an ID that is specific to your country, for example the last four digits of your social security number if you’re American. We will not be storing any information except for a code that tells us there was a positive match. Integrity will not keep any identifying information about you.”

  80. Temporal Mitra says:

    Once again…the lindens are pushing this issue…because of their policy of allowing anyone to create an avi, without controls, they now expect us to put our personal data at risk, to cover their asses.

    How about providing some more information…like what will be LL policy the first time that we receive a solicitation from a third party because their third party company didnt keep it’s word and sold our data?…or….When someone’s identity is stolen, after providing this information to a GAME…what address should our attorney’s send the subpoena to?

    I hate to beat a dead horse, but it is the game owners responsibility to keep people that are not of age to play the game OUT of the game…not just out of certain areas…it is not a landowners responsibility to do Linden Labs job…and to ask said landowner to put his own future and identity at risk, because Linden Labs is not doing their job, and didnt do it in the past…is inexcusable.

    The purpose of age or identity verification is to keep someone out of a resource…and the resource owner bears the responsibiltiy to do so…In real life, if you supposedly live in a gated, secure adults -only, apartment complex, and the complex owner does not perform due dilligence in keeping your home and belongings safe, and maintain the adults only policy, then you may sue them. If you pay for security, and enter into an agreement for adults only, then if the service provider does not keep to that policy themselves..then they are at fault…not you.

    and one last thing…Linden Labs…please show us one other Internet provider of adult content…any porn site…any chat room, ANYWHERE…where this level of identity verification is required to join and maintain a membership…just ONE example…if you cant…then there is something fishy here.

  81. Sin Trenton says:

    I saw a blogger having a screen dump of the process. Interesting. I don’t have one. Is it because I have Payment Info on File, but am not a Premium member?

    Wait.. is it country of residency? Or citizenship? They differ. Wonder what happens if I fill in country (country A, my residency) and passport no or driving license (country B, my citizenship)?

  82. Harald Nomad says:

    Trust? As in trusting Linden Lab to protect the integrity of sensitive material? Like in protecting creditcard information? Pallease!

    Once again, it’s solely Linden Lab’s responsibility to keep minors out. Linden Lab has tried in many ways to put this responsibility on the shoulders of residents, and that’s NOT the way to go.

    Once again, a strong warning to all residents to NOT give out any kind of identifiable information to any third party. Even if a company is respectable, can you really trust their employees? Too often already such information is taken from company databases and passed on to outsiders without the knowledge of the company’s management.

    Linden Lab has chosen the path of free, unverified accounts. That makes it Linden Lab’s responsibility to deal with the consequenses. Grow up and face those consequences and don’t bother your customers with them.

    Trust? The first who needs to earn our trust is Linden Lab itself. By taking responsibilities serious. By listening to complaints. By fixing the many, many bugs instead of endlessly adding more buggy features. By displaying a professional business attitude. By providing a functional and efficient support system that goes further than “That’s not a bug, it’s a feature! Ticket closed.”

    Trust? Judge fellow residents by their commitment displayed in their work and the length of time they have been doing so. Someone who’s been around for 3 weeks and promises the world is not trustworthy. Someone who’s been around for 3 years and promises nothing else than what s/he has accomplished in that time likely is. As the old Dutch saying goes: “Don’t trust anyone further than you can spit on them.” Knowing their real name, age and whatnot is not going to make any difference. If it even is their real name, age and whatnot.

    What on earth does real name, age, sex, etc. have to do with trust anyway? Please don’t make the same mistakes as Linden Lab does in confusing verification with trustworthiness. One has nothing to do with the other.

    If you don’t trust someone, you already have the option to eject and/or ban them from your property. If you don’t trust anyone, you already have the option to deny everyone access to your property. As long as you forget that everyone still can move his camera in and get to see whatever they’re not supposed to see – another great feature!

    Furthermore, a verification system as suggested will only encourage identity theft, and within soon you will really need to worry about the true identity of those who have their identity verified. Someone who’s unverified, isn’t suggesting to be someone else. But did someone who’s “verified” really use his/her own information for the verification process? And then that’s supposed to help trust someone???

    Verification helps keeping minors out? Think again. The kids that already use their parent’s creditcards to gain access, will have little problem using their social security number, driver’s license or anything else that’s conveniently kept in the same wallet. A verification system will only encourage abuse. At least Linden Lab will be off the hook, so why would they care?

    Harald Nomad, unverified.

  83. Lucifer Baphomet says:

    This is totally defeating the concept of having a “Second Life”

    If i want to play first life, I walk AWAY from the PC

  84. Elph-kun! says:

    Wait… people are verifying already? Where exactly is the link to the form?

  85. Cethlenn Miles says:

    1) I believe that what you are doing (asking for social security numbers and Driver’s License information) is against the law of the state of California, where your offices reside.

    2) I don’t give that information to Netflix, why the hell do I need to give it to you?

    3) Why are you so intent on “protecting minors in Second Life” when Minors are NOT ALLOWED on the Adult Grid of Second Life?

    4) As far as trust goes, I do not trust you or your third party company with the information that you ask for.

  86. Selkit Diller says:

    Credit-bureau registered businesses are one thing. That’s Equifax (or Trans-U, depending). They actually have the necessary registration and DPA legislation in place. There is a very nasty, very different perspective between using a SIN for a credit report by a licensed credit agency operating under Canadian data-protection laws, and a foreign agency using Canadian documentation without legal recourse or any presented legal assurance in regards to the Canadian legitimacy of any method they might propose. Slimy.

  87. Dude says:

    My common sense tells me that many things that xcite or strokerz make will be considered as broadly offensive or restricted content, and furthermore so are a lot of the skins made by so many of the fine creators on SL, what will happen to these items we wear as Avatars, if you claim that you are going to try to prevent minors from accessing adult content then surely you won’t want them running around in a lifelike skin wearing gentials, so what happens to the things I have already paid for if I choose not to verify, do you have a system in place that will keep me from wearing anything I already own even if I am not verified, what about my Girfriend’s skin, it has all the appeal of a naked woman…will she have to remove it in my pressence, will the content police be running around SL writing down the names of Avatars wearing realistic skin?
    This cannot be about Age Verification because you are creating a scenario that seems to be uninforcable unless you go through my inventory and remove any items that may be potentially considered adult content, maybe I will lose the abiltiy to attach anything to my pelvis?
    Sl seems emptier these days, a lot of the fun seems to be leaving SL,
    I read all the previous blogs about this issue and I don’t think you listened at all, SL may survive this, and what it will become I am not sure…but I think it may have to do it without me.
    I am an Adult and I have spent an awful lot of “REAL” dollars here,
    I guess its time I start acting like one and stopped playing this game
    it was fun while it lasted.
    I really don’t want to turn over any information to a company like Aristole.

  88. Raul Crimson says:

    I totally agree with Vint Falken. Why a third party company? Maybe is cheaper for Linden Lab, but i’m not sure about to give my personal information for a third party company.

  89. The XO says:

    Hi Robin…. it’s going to be a long and interesting day for you to say the least, but it’s a post that had to be made eventually.

    Once ID has been verified, everything else relating to a persons information needs to be *voluntary* so they can provide as little or as much as they want to.

    As long as you know they are verified and can stamp their avi “verified” thats all the needs to be done. Some wish to keep SL as SL and not reveal themselves but will wish to be verified.

    If verified, can they still remain anonymous? Can they reveal only as much as they are comfortable with?

    If this is handled correctly, sensibly and with a manner of care by LL I don’t see it being a problem. For gods sake don’t bork it, take time and ensure it’s fully working. The last thing we want is an “oops, we gave away all of your geographical locations for 30 minutes today when we did such and such a fix”.

    Don’t bork it otherwise it’s yet another nail in the SL coffin. Please, please, please get this right and remember SENSITIVITY and DISCRETION!

  90. Sedary Raymaker says:

    @34 — What part of voluntary don’t you get?

    The part where, as an estate owner, I can apparently look forward to being “reported” if I don’t “voluntarily” flag my land as adult. Why would LL be expecting people to report me for not doing something that’s voluntary?

    Let’s face it, this is not about “trust”, it’s about LL not getting sued. And that will only work if all landowners are required to flag their land as containing objectionable material, even if the landowner doesn’t believe it is objectionable or harmful.

  91. Imukai says:

    I’d wager if LL made a post announcing they were giving a $50 (US) credit to the accounts of every one of their members as a thank-you for putting up with the grid issues, that there would be a line of complaints about people leaving.

    Age verification is a good thing. I don’t mind giving them the last 4 of my social along with information that they already have about me anyway. This is as much about them covering their ass as it is me covering my ass when my private island becomes restricted just to ensure my visitors are adults.

    I’m sure several NAMBLA-style sims are going to empty out though along with the “stampede” of you whiners in this comment thread – but I don’t see either of those as bad things.

  92. CyberDragon Crossair says:

    ….like i didn’t see this coming. Well as the old saying goes

    “Look’s like we got shafted…again.”

    You do realise that an extremly love number of peopel will be willnig to give up thier personal info regardless of what you restrict right?

    Seriously in the beginning I was for this,however after seeing the atempted Genocide Linden Labs comensed on it’s own residents (the presicution of agepalyers who roleplay in a legit manner as well as residents who consentually roleplay in explicit or violent fantasies be it a virtual war or some rough sexual interactions.) i don’t see this fixing anything.Personally I see this as another problem to tack onto the long overdue bugs that need fixing that have been swept aside in lue of new features (voice chat and windlight for example.)

    At this point i expect LL to try duping me into giving up my info but in the end I have come to realise that even though some may do so I often never go with a crowd and woudl rather return to City of Villains from whence i came (Or perhaps i can use the opensource SL server code and run it in stand alone mode if i’m that desperate to stay in SL)

    In closing no I don’t feel that this is a good move anymore and feel that this will fail so hard that it will more than likely give me “Diabeetus” but to Linden Labs credit they sugercoated it for us like they should have.

    Why? Simple,they run themselves like a pseudo government and as such need to lie ot us on a consistent basis in order ot make us think we have any control over what we can and cannot do.

    -Cy

    P.S. I’m debatnig on downgrading my account and canceling my plans ot buy a sim which odds are is a good move…

  93. CyberDragon Crossair says:

    correctino I meant extremly low not “extremly love” my mistake (damned infernal typos.)

  94. Grow says:

    Can we be verified face to face if we’re near an LL set up? I don’t trust you or Integrity with anything like my passport or driving license numbers. Also, surely if we have payment details that are an actual credit card (not a debit card) that would be enough? For UK residents anyway as you cant get a credit card under 18. Again, CREDIT not debit card.
    If you’re gonna reply “well minors good just be using their parents cards”, surely they could just as easy use their parents details for your, to be honest- totally ridiculous ID ideas.

    I know you’re not going to stop with this ID rubbish, but you must rethink how its to be done and use another company to implement it.

    As has been pointed out, the ID you’re asking for is actually illegal in some countries so residents from those areas by law can’t verify. Will they be treated as minors just for following their countries laws? Rethink this LL, please! You’re getting awfull press atm. With this, you’re going to make it alot worse possibly

  95. GoogleMama says:

    Please, XO…. “correct” and “sensible” handling, by LL?? Now you’ve done it… You’ve made the troll laugh out loud!! 🙂

  96. Henri Beauchamp says:

    Let’s resume…
    ——-
    • Do I have to submit to identity verification?
 No. This is completely voluntary. For example, you need only provide age verification if you choose to enter areas in Second Life that have been flagged as having restricted content.

    • What if adult content is not flagged as restricted?
 We strongly encourage land holders to flag any restricted content and restrict their parcels to avoid minors inadvertently accessing it. If Residents and businesses choose not to do this, we expect that such behavior will be reported by the community itself.
    ——–

    So, in the end, all the adult regions will be restricted (as else, the owners of these regions would get reported and warned and/or banned)…

    This actually leaves NO CHOICE whatsoever !!!

    Either you age-verify, or you will get restricted to PG regions.

    What pisses me off most is that LL is very hypocritical and that their logic is flawed: if SL is reserved to adults, then all residents should be considered adults and don’t need to age-verify.
    If LL wishes to verify for the age of their users, they should do so at registration time, and not pretend the verification process is voluntary (it is NOT as in the end, all adult material, i.e. 80% of the grid will be unavailable to unverified users).

    Finally, I’m curious to see how the verification will be dealt with in countries where Law protects people privacy (like in France, with the law “Informatique et Libertésé)… My guess is that they will only be able to ask… for a credit card number (and in France, a VISA holder CANNOT be a minor)…

  97. Kaj Qinan says:

    Ok,
    Lets see if I have this correct. I am the one that spends money here.
    Yet, I am the one that will be put in “restriction”?
    KIDS have no business here. So to control the little !@#$#@ because their parents lack the back bone you limit ME and the others I associate with?
    Something is very wrong with this picture.

  98. Traci Summers says:

    This isn’t about AGE…this is what they need to give to the government in order to get taxes from you..I have purchased ADULT dvd’s from respectable sources such as Columbia House,Amazon to name a few,and NEITHER one asked for a driver’s license,or SS#…credit card was good enough for them. I asked the social security office where I live if an online game company can ask for a SS# for age verification,she told me no..SS# are NOT legal age verification because citizens can have a SS# at ANY age..so who is LInden Labs kidding?
    I gave the social security office LL’s address and CEO’s name..hope they investigate and possibly bring charges against this company..they are getting to big for their britches..time to knock them down a peg or 2.

  99. Harald Nomad says:

    Oh, forgot: I want an option to restrict access to anyone who has his/her identity verified. I seriously wonder why they would do so, and simply cannot trust them.

  100. Shigure Kenzo says:

    I love how this is “voluntary” however we must do it to ensure access we already had..

    Oh and No minors on the main grid, but we have to shield their virgin eyes.

    Also, trust? Trusting would be not requiring this data..
    Do you even know what trust is?
    If You really trusted your residents this would never have been thought up…

  101. Mac Soothsayer says:

    I agree with those who ask that LL be a bit more forthcoming with info on this third party system.
    Something that does not quite compute with me is..in Robin’s post it states ” Linden Lab will not be storing this data and nor will the third party verification specialist, Aristotle. ”
    Bringing up my question of…. for how long will they “not store” this information?…as Aristotle states in their privacy statement “This site gives users the following options for changing and modifying information previously provided:

    E-mail to: remove@aristotle.com
    If the information is not stored..how then can you go back later and change it?
    Just curious.

  102. memory magellan says:

    well im not going verified anymore guess im gonna be a unverified account
    i have enuff of a problem with identity theft in this country without having to worry about someone else using my records without my knowledge .
    so sowwy im not doing that !! lol

  103. Alicia Mounier says:

    “Personally, I think this will help take our in-world relationships to a new level of trust. And that’s good for us all.”

    Personally I think it’s a bunch of crock. It’s like saying a virtual world is real. But it’s not. You want reality? Turn of your comps and go outside. Catch a movie or go to the park. Some have a real problem distinguishing rl from sl. All in all Something else will open up, another virtual world will emerge that we can use as an escape from rl sometimes. Wait for it.

  104. Giulio Prisco says:

    I just went through the beta verification process to see how it works. I am surprised that, though I am not in the US and used a document that I do NOT normally use for web verification, the system verified me in a few seconds.

  105. GoogleMama says:

    Very good point, Traci… it is now common practice in most of the US to issue an SS number to a child before it even leaves the hospital! So, LL, you are going to verify that your registrant is at least…. MINUTES old….

    Pure idiocy, but wait, I did say this was LL, so that’s redundant….

    It’s a pitty, SL was such a wonderful pasttime…

  106. Kaj Qinan says:

    and Aristotle is a political data mining company FYI

  107. Harald,
    I asked the same thing right up at the top. They chose to ignore the question… of course.

  108. waterstar eilde says:

    @ 34 jdtrue
    You don’t have to live under the paranoid umbrella to be cautious about identity theft, nor to value personal privacy. And I would suggest that having real choice is a rather more complex issue than simply complying with a suspect procedure to be able to carry out a specific activity – where’s the real ‘choice’ in that?

    @ 35 kristoffer
    Well, you might think that ‘a lot of people are just looking for something to complain about’, but that ignores the underlying reasons for the complaint. I happen to agree that there are many circumstances in which personal identification to varying degrees would be appropriate. However, given the wide variety of internet sites I can access without such identification, this is possibly not such a circumstance. And how can you be so sure that this is not the first step towards a mandatory system? If the so-called ‘voluntary’ system doesn’t work, who knows how LL will seek to cover their corporate back?

    Besides, the sloppy way in which the whole issue has been handled so far leaves me sceptical. The word ‘trust’ gets bandied about rather too freely, when there is absolutely no reason to suppose that we can ‘trust’ the process, on the basis of either the information we have to date, nor the third party provider.

    @ 36 cerulean
    ‘And doesn’t this try to cover your ass by putting something, that should have been done from the beginning when people signed up, on the backs of landowners?’

    Yep, it’s called ‘shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted’…

  109. Amanda Ascot says:

    And so it begins …

    Robin, this is clearly the most idiotic thing that Linden Lab has ever done — or ever can do. Let me make it clear so that even those of you riding your high horses can understand.

    1) It is already public knowledge, although Linden Lab hasn’t bothered (intentionally, perhaps) to inform anyone here of it, that Aristotle is a political data mining company. People around here who know them don’t trust them, and using a name like “Integrity” doesn’t give them any. I’m not saying this is a scam to get our information into their data base, but you really have to wonder why a company that specializes in “identity verification” is owned by a company that collects and sells personal information to political organizations and why Linden Lab, already suffering from a very negative public image by the majority of it’s users, would associate themselves with Aristotle/Integrity. It makes us wonder about about *that* as well.

    2) The mere fact that you’ll be asking for more personal information from some of us than from others is manifestly unfair. If you don’t think this is going to up a huge bag of worms for you, then you’re more naieve than I had you pegged for when you were campaigning against age-play, and the later ranting about “non-consensual” role-playing, which you clearly showed Linden Lab doesn”t understand, and made no attempt to understand. It’s equally clear that you don’t understand the ramifications, both short term and long term, of identity verification. Perhaps it’s time Linden Lab got out of political and social activism and started acting like a common provider, which is what it *really* is.

    3) To my knowledge you are protected from legal prosecution by the mere fact that we have all agreed to your TOS, which includes a statement that we’re 18 years of age or over, in order to access the main grid. Forcing us to engage in further identity verification is redundant, unnecessary, invasive, and potentially dangerous, especially considering the company that Linden Lab is apparently in bed with for this project. There are porn sites all over the web that require no more than what you do now and they aren’t coming under fire. Neither will Linden Lab, and your insistence in taking this totally un-called-for extra step, when you know as well as we do, that it won’t keep children off the main grid, points to a hidden agenda.

    4) You have utterly failed to make a case that there is any significant number of minors on the main grid. The vast majority of residents understand identity verification to be nothing more than a smoke screen to hide your real agenda, which appears to be the “cleansing” of content and behavior from Second Life that some people at Linden Lab find objectionable, and/or that countries in which you want to place servers might find objectionable. It’s bad enough that you intend to subject the entirity of Second Life to the laws of other countries, but hiding behind the misdirection that identity verification can even actually work, and minors have been proving for many years that it doesn’t, will further erode the already shaky foundation of trust that you have with residents.

    Make no mistake, here. I give credit where credit is due, and I’ve defended Linden Lab right here in the blog on other issues and taken heat for it, but there is no defense for identity verification. Any way you can implement it, it is unfair, unnecessary, won’t work, anyway, and puts sensitive private information for anyone engaging in it at risk. You’re asking for more information from some of us than *any* purveyor of pornography is required to gather, and will be asking for next to nothing from those of us in countries where it is illegal, there, to supply personally-identifying information.

    In short, residents need to resist this project and refuse to cooperate with it. They need to protest, long and loudly. They need to send a clear signal to Linden Lab that we are tired of its meddling in personal affairs (and that really is what this is all about, however you may try to disguise it) that are none of its business. Get on with your business of developing cutting-age Internet technology and get out of the business of building your own private police state.

    Amanda Ascot, Dead Girl Walking

  110. Chrysala says:

    @ 54 Omi Yip

    Integrity may not store it but nothing stops them from passing it to aristotle, which DEALS in personal info lists, selling to political parties and companies.

    And as has been mentioned, the doublespeak notwithstanding, info has to be stored somewhere and indexed to you.

    Still waiting on my question about the method, how long the info you input is kept, if just a confirm code remains. the silence is telling.

    as T. Mithra says, it’s certaily not about protecting the minors that supposedly aren’t here. Hardcore porn sites run nothing of this kind.

    integrity cannot prove to me that it can be trusted.

    how about publishing the contract for all to see, Robin?

  111. Omi Yip says:

    /me sobs Oh no! I’ll be banned for Harald Nomad’s land
    boo hoo

    Seriously, issues people. back agggess ago LL said they were going to make a new level to restrict people who arnt verified. PG, Mature and something else.

    I dont have an issue giving out my real identity to LL, hell what they gonna do with it? and it is voluntary. LL can ask u to do anything. It’s still your choice. You dont have to play SL you all choose to!

  112. Catinka says:

    Why do you call it Secondlife then? Its just stupid….

  113. Sedary Raymaker says:

    @66 — I seriously wonder why they would do so

    Because we see which way the wind is blowing. We see that we will inevitably have to verify if we want to visit our favorite places, which will eventually either be forced to require verification bans or become PG. I already know one place which is going to be ruined by verification by becoming a PG sim, I’m hoping more won’t. But those that won’t will eventually have to require verification or be shut down by LL.

  114. Sven Okonomi says:

    Its just a publicity mask, to make them look good. Sad fact is every wingnut with access to mommies purce can still get in, while making it harder on us normal residents in the mean time. This stuff is going to work backwards folks! I hope LL will realise that after the grid flails under the new blanket of grievance..

    I for one will refuse to play ball with them.

    “Verify yourself or enjoy your panzy teengrid v2″… wth man.. NO!

  115. Tamara says:

    I am so over the concept, what upsets me is the doublespeak Linden uses to make it look like they are doing us some kind of favour!
    And what ever happened to parental responsibility anyway? If you cant put filters on your computer and keep your ID safe from your kids, why is it either the responsibility of a company or other residents to protect the little darlings??

  116. Paskis Robinson says:

    RIP the days when SL was edgey, trendy and fun.. kewl! On to the Next Big Thing!

  117. SL Player™ says:

    What steps are you taking to safe guard our teens on their grid from child predators?

  118. mimi says:

    This ” flagging” seems not voluntarily at all just like the verifying. *Most* people enter SL becaue of its ‘adult’ options, so this way, it will just scare off lot of people and make them leave. If you live in a country where beeing gay can be a danger to your social life, losing a job and losing your family, why would risk it verifying for a game like this? You won’t, you will just leave..

    A big thanks from the gay community 😦

  119. Pingback: Strange’s Second Life Blog » Blog Archive » Identitiy Verification in SL

  120. GoogleMama says:

    I have no idea what they might do with your information, Mr. Yip… perhaps you are a worthless bum with no bank account, no property and nothing to lose….

    But with nothing more than a SS# and date of birth, sometimes not even that much, it is possible to open bank account, apply for credit cards, order money transfers, access savings and checking accounts… and all this can be learned from any number of anarchist sites on the net, it’s not some obscure knowledge.

    So, Mr. Yip, while your life may be worthless to LL (more ot the point, whoever steals it or buys it from their unreliable third party contractor), most people would rather not find their bank accounts empty, their homes sold and their lives stollen resulting in YEARS of attempts to clean up the mess… and yes, it does, has and WILL happen. You can look THAT up on the internet, too…

    So, all you fanbois go right ahead and verify… and when you next apply for a loan, or try to get a credit card, or are picked up by the police for FRAUD committed in your name, think back to the sensible people who told you, warned you, what a bad idea it was…

    Mama Troll, the paranoid fool…. but still in posession of her own identity….

  121. Joanne Sabre says:

    So where is this link to start this wonderful process…?:-P

  122. Lolita Abel says:

    @23 Robin Says: Integrity is contractually obligated to perform the matching service and that’s it. They will not store any personally identifying information, nor will we.

    How then do they verify if they don’t store personal info? Somebody’s got to have the info in order to provide meaningful verification. Perhaps they tap into another database? In any case somebody somewhere is storing the data and by tapping into it for this purpose, you are telling this unknown entity that the info they have is true! Otherwise the whole thing is meaningless. So who is storing what???

  123. BoyRoger says:

    Hey, where did name and sex come from, I thought the point was to verify our age and location to ensure we weren’t breaching any laws in our location.

    Well computer based games of all sorts only have a limited life span, I guess Second life just signalled the end of theirs.

  124. Well i think that sl is heading down a very bad road.
    There was a super power that did the same thing in 1944 in germany.
    thay were called Nazis an the people thay made to verify who thay were was called jews.First it was no gameing an now you want us to wear a patch saying hi im a real person to linden labs.
    But i guess the up side is if we dont verify you dont send us to a linden labs death camp ..well yet any ways.
    An im shure it will cost some kinda money caz every thing you do is going to cost us something caz lord knows were not going to get it for free.
    Well when you have so much land an the only people in world is linden labs staff you can look back at all the blogs an go shit that tryed to tell us fix stuff make it fun caz no ones going to play if you keep this kinda stuff up caz after all its just A GAME….
    just caz its called second life dont mean you have to make it just as boring as real life with just as menny pobs.
    Ill be wateing for some one to make 3rd life have fun linden labs caz im not going to wear your patch.
    THANKS

  125. Tracy says:

    I for one am glad they’re finally rolling out age verification. I barely venture off my land these days because of all the moronic kids roaming the grid. It got real old, real fast… dealing with the griefing and harassment and general retardedness that all started when LL took away what little means they had for age verification the last time.

    And it’s not mandatory! Sheesh people, seriously! The only places you aren’t going to be allowed to visit if you aren’t verified are the sex joints and if that’s ALL you’re in SL for then we’re happy to see you go. Buh-bye. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.

  126. Coincidence that they waited till after SLCC to bring this demon to life again? I think not.

  127. TIM Gagliano, you are soo smart…holy shit…wow…you are the greatest mask that runnin around here in SL…even when you are over 21 lol

  128. Omi Yip says:

    It’s Miss Yip.. thank u so very much, and seeing as the verifying process is only open to concerige users I’m pretty sure i’m not a worthless bum.

  129. Ravening Umarov says:

    Ridiculous….. Who will see this information? If my name, address and such is published, who will show up on my RL doorstep?

  130. Glyph Graves says:

    so Im expected to give my passport number to a third party organisation in a foriegn country that makes it living from collecting this information? I dont think so…

    This is just ugly and the Lindens know this

  131. Ash Qin says:

    So, where do we verify? I see no link on the “My account” page.

  132. Pussy Dailey says:

    Can you tell us how this applies to group owned eststes if some group members are not verified.
    Will thet still be able to get in.

  133. U M says:

    OMG this is a joke right? Does that mean land owners wil be able to check current users status?

  134. Abe Attenborough says:

    MOM, MOHOM, MOOOOM,
    i nwedd your id card for a school project.may i lent it?
    sure little darling, omg hes such a busy nice boy

  135. Traven Sachs says:

    The verification worked smoothly and quickly and was quite painless. 🙂

  136. mimi says:

    ” We believe that most landowners will want to take steps to prevent minors being exposed to restricted content.”

    Linden labs *believed* that most people would eventually welcome voice too, despite the many messages from people who warned in advance that it would give lots of trouble like with abuse and cursing, and many many people saying they didn’t want their RL to interfere with their SL. Avatars which use voice now can hardly be found.

    I guess the same will happen with age verification.. The people with big businesses *will* be forced to flag.. Most people in the game *won’t* verify and will just leave to businesses ran by newbies, since they care far less if they will be kicked out of SL for not flagging..
    Do you still remember the time when you entered SL and all you saw were crappy sexclubs and casinos? Secondlife will be even more like this, with all the good content be hidden in flagged areas..

    I run a big shop and two sexclubs, and I’m quite sure this will be the end of my sexclubs..

    Most people like SL for beeing a *second* life, an imaginary life, something separately from their first life.. they don’t want to mix up things.. its why they didn’t welcome voice and will not welcome age verification either. But I guess secondlife will have to find out themselves..

  137. janeforyou Barbara says:

    I tryed to put in my name, adress, driver license, got a error that it failed, i tryed 3 times but it still dont work,lol

  138. Mimi Petrova says:

    Will it be assumed that if I am not verified, that I am a minor? and if so…will you let me wear my realistic skins, and how will you know? Are Avatars going to be running around looking for unverified accounts wearing realistic skin? will unverified people lose the abilty to take their clothes off…I really don’t want to be verified it makes me nervous for so many reasons.

  139. U M says:

    another thing. what about us that are non us users? how are you going to excess out data user profile?

  140. Asura Orr says:

    Robin, why didn’t you annouce this decision at SLCC?
    That was the best place to discuss with your community.
    A sudden blog post AFTER SLCC is not a good way to talk something about “trust”, i believe.

  141. Jeffery Beckersted says:

    Does you verification provider share information? It’s great that you say you don’t, except that you’re not the one handling the verification. Where’s your providers privacy statement?

  142. Chrysala says:

    @ 86:

    the pain doesn’t come from the typing unless you’re really bad at it.

    it comes later.

    puppet.

  143. U M says:

    I don`t know about this……with al the data leaks around these days i really don`t trust any of this.

  144. U M says:

    “86 Traven Sachs Says:

    August 29th, 2007 at 7:12 AM PDT
    The verification worked smoothly and quickly and was quite painless.”

    yea right and you also believe christmas come 10 times a years. Doubt it!

  145. I don’t trust LL to protect data. Especially after last year’s data theft fiasco.

  146. ari blackthorne says:

    GAWD all the WHINERS! LOL

    I’m concierge customer – so I already did it. Took 30-seconds. Verification was instantaneous. The only information that was asked was information already PUBLICLY AVAILABLE LOL name, Address, Birthdate – last 4 of SSN (and you can choose something else like drivers license or passport or whatever.

    Then I went in world to check profile (my ‘master’ account) – NO NEW INFO or anything. yes, they make change it to include new info – but so far nothing new that anyone will know about me that isn’t already there.

    Sheesh – all the kneejerk reaction is actually kinda funny to see who ia all so emotional. LOL

    Go go Lindenonians – I like it! now my island will be SECURE. no verify – no service (hey, no shirt or shoes is okay) ;P

  147. Pingback: The Second Life Grid Grind » Blog Archive » Big Brother Integrity is back...

  148. Foxxe Wilder says:

    Nice try but it’s A VERY FOOLISH IDEA! Move the Linden Offices to a truly FREE country, FREE of military oppression and dictatorship and I’d go for it.

    I mean, REALLY! Who can trust the US gov’t THESE DAYS NOT to steal info!

    Also… I agree FULL HEARTEDLY with GoogleMama.

  149. Danira Noel says:

    Where is the age verification form? I can’t even find it to look at it!

  150. CrimsonWings Eun says:

    yea…this is nice and all but the question is should WE (the residents of SL and the lindens) be protecting minors? i thought that was the job of the parents. what this is doing is shouldering the burden that should be the parents/guardians responsibility. all i can say is “congrats LL for making another half-assed attempt at something that should be handled privately (as in a family-by-family basis) instead of making everyone suffer….the only reason i would do this is im an estate manager and i represent the sim i manage…im disappointed in LL for trying to pull this again. Im wondering if they learned that ANYTHING that has us put our personal info out there just to access certain parts of SL is going to be met with intense negative response. I dont know how many times this has been proven but let me put it in nice big letters: AGE/IDENTITY VERIFICATION IS THE WORST IDEA FOR THE GRID EVER!!!

  151. Arashiko Kobayashi says:

    One of the things that Aristotle mentions on the Integrity website is that they indemnify customers against legal liability for underage access. Given the legal pressure that LL has been getting, I’m not sure there’s much alternative between “show we are making a good faith effort to verify age” and “ban adult content.” I’m sure that the latter would go over like the proverbial lead balloon.

  152. Please get a verification for bad people too like @21…would be a much better and more honest place, if ppl like 21 vanish from here…there are sooo many Wannabees, but SL is no place for Wannabees, after a short while your verification is behaviour and 21 has none of that.
    Maybe you make 100 questions for real human, so SL dont get a great garbage can, like 21 😉

  153. Kahni Poitier says:

    I don’t trust this at all. I’d guarantee the info is going to be stored, and it’ll just be used to prosecute people for actions in a VIRTUAL world, and so they can roll out the taxes.

  154. Panacea Pangaea says:

    What concerns me is that while there are certain protections for US citizens against US government surveillance and interception of data, the protections against this for communications originating outside the US is almost no-existent.

    From a BBC article by Bill Thompson **:

    “I can choose to live without a mobile, avoid cafes that insist on spying on their customers and stop using Twitter. I can campaign against the local authority’s decision to install CCTV in my town, argue with my local MP about the limits of the state’s right to watch what I’m doing, and influence the debate in this country or even more widely in Europe.

    “But I have no control, influence or even clear understanding of what the government of a supposedly friendly superpower is doing with the information it gleans from Google, Facebook, Linden Labs, Yahoo!, MSN, Apple and the many other US corporations that service my online life.

    “Perhaps we need to rethink our reliance on the US for our network services, if the government there persists in treating every non-US citizen as a source of intelligence data rather than an individual with their own rights and freedoms.”

    ** http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6958615.stm

  155. Chrysala says:

    @95

    have you read the whining or just though “whiners”?

    it’s about the info on a list owned by integrity.

    you’re on it now.

    smooth move.

    you’re secure from nothing but sure of of traffic. you could have made an access list without losing personal data.

    smoth move.

    puppet.

  156. GoogleMama says:

    GOODBYE SL, IT WAS NICE KNOWING YOU!!! /WAVE

  157. Klaatu Congrejo says:

    @5 Phil raises a good point. Giving such information to an unknown company like Aristotle’s Integrity (you need to tell us exactly WHO these people are Robin!) could mean you are breaking laws – and in some countries these may be anti-terrorism laws! This could be a dangerous legal minefield!

    @8 Good point Kristian! Yes Robin, why IS gender an important issue here? Asking a person to verify their gender could be breaking anti-sexism laws in some countries. I think that may be the case here in Australia!

    @12 I agree Siobhan, lol. Will those landowners who choose NOT to verify be able to ban those who DO verify?

    @16 How silly of you to jump in so quickly Mattie. This debate has a long way to go yet, and you may be compromising yourself with your eagerness!

    Now, I have a few questions:

    1. “…ID verification provides an additional layer of trust for in-world businesses and residents.” Does this mean that if I choose NOT to verify I will be flagged in my Profile as ‘unverified’, signalling to everyone that I have commercial dealings with that I am considered untrustworthy?

    2. If I do not intend to have restricted content on any of my lands, and if I do not ever intend to visit any restricted content lands – then why do I need to verify anyway? (Its just like if I never go into a bar I never need to prove my age, right?).

    3. You say that “ID verification will only be required at this time for access to restricted content”. Does this mean you are leaving open the option for ID verification requirements to eventually be extended to other areas of SL?

    4. What other reassurances (apart from your words on this blog) can you give us that our ID information will not be stored anywhere and, in particular, if Linden Labs are not going to have the information (as you say) why do we not get some reassurance from Aristotle’s Integrity that the information will not be stored?

    5. Will Integrity, as a foreign-owned company outside of Linden Labs, be providing us with legally-binding confirmation that all SL residents personal details will be destroyed after the verification process?

    6. Does Linden Labs intend to employ any kind of independent verification of Integrity’s assurances?

    Some of the questions raised here, and elsewhere in this blog, need immediate answers if this is going to work at all – and some other questions raise issues that will undoubtedly bring up even more questions.

    I am not yet satisfied or reassured that the process you are proposing is secure or, in some instances, even legal!

    Robin, this debate STILL has a long way to go my friend.

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