Wagering In Second Life: New Policy

[UPDATE: Wednesday, July 25 4:47PM PDT] For those of you who find logging into the Knowledge Base to be sort of kludgy (and I know it is — we’ll find a better way!), I’ve pasted the text of the policy and FAQ below.

Several months ago we discussed the issue of gambling in Second Life (R) in a blog post, and at that time we let you know that we would no longer accept any classified ads, place listings, or event listings that appear to relate to simulated casino activity.

While Linden Lab does not offer an online gambling service, Linden Lab and Second Life Residents must comply with state and federal laws applicable to regulated online gambling, even when both operators and players of the games reside outside of the US. And, because there are a variety of conflicting gambling regulations around the world we have chosen to restrict gambling in Second Life as described in a revised policy which is posted in the Knowledge Base under “Policy Regarding Wagering in Second Life”.

As you review this new policy, please remember that Resident compliance with real world laws has always been an integral part of our Terms of Service. We appreciate your cooperation with this policy, and your understanding that we believe this action is in the best interest of providing a successful Second Life service. Because this is an evolving area of law, we may continue to adjust and clarify this policy as we receive feedback from the community and from legal authorities, or as new regulations, industry practices and technology solutions come into effect.

Policy

It is a violation of this policy to wager in games in the Second Life (R) environment operated on Linden Lab servers if such games:

(1) (a) rely on chance or random number generation to determine a winner, OR (b) rely on the outcome of real-life organized sporting events,

AND

(2) provide a payout in

(a) Linden Dollars, OR

(b) any real-world currency or thing of value.

This includes (but is not limited to), for example, Casino Games such as:

o Baccarat
o Blackjack
o Craps
o Faro
o Keno
o Pachinko
o Pai Gow
o Poker
o Roulette
o Sic Bo
o Slot machines

It also includes Sports Books or Sports Betting, including the placing of bets on actual sporting events against a book-maker or through a betting exchange.
Linden Lab will actively enforce this policy. If we discover gambling activities that violate the policy, we will remove all related objects from the inworld environment, may suspend or terminate the accounts of residents involved without refund or payment, and may report any relevant details, including user information, to authorities and financial institutions.

Wagering Games FAQ

1. Does this policy mean that all simulated gambling in Second Life(R) is illegal? Have I broken the law by gambling in Second Life? Can there be any retroactive consequences?

Linden Lab’s policy is not intended to identify which gambling activities may be legal where you live, and we cannot provide legal advice to you. Because gambling activities may be controlled by the law where the bettor lives in some places, and in others affect the operators of wagering games, we have decided to take a broader approach by prohibiting all games that meet the criteria in our policy.

It has been a basic tenet of Second Life that all Residents are legally responsible for their own activities and for complying with the laws of the local jurisdiction in which they reside. If you are violating our policy, or if you are otherwise concerned that you may be engaging in illegal gambling, you should stop.

2. Is this a blanket ban — i.e. is this simply a ban on simulated casinos or all types of gambling?

The wagering games described in the policy will not be allowed in Second Life. It applies to objects and games whether or not they are in a building that you may call an inworld “casino.”

3. What kind of wagering games are affected?

The policy applies to gambling games which:

(1) (a) rely on chance or random number generation to determine a winner, OR (b) rely on the outcome of real-life organized sporting events,

AND

(2) provide a payout in

(a) Linden Dollars, OR

(b) any real-world currency or thing of value.

4. Does the policy apply to all games based on real-life sports activities?

The policy prohibits Sports Books or Sports Betting, including the placing of bets on actual sporting events against a book-maker or through a betting exchange. However, the policy does not prohibit “fantasy sports” leagues if the rules and operation of those games comply with all applicable laws.

5. Does this policy apply to “skill contests?”

This policy only applies to wagering games that meet the criteria listed above. If your game or contest does not meet the above criteria, it is not restricted under this policy, but applicable laws and local practice may impose additional requirements on you. This policy does not give you guidance on what your legal obligations are – as noted above, that is your responsibility to determine.

6. How will you enforce this measure? How can you detect these games?

Our staff will review, investigate and respond to appropriate notices. We may retain additional staff or services to conduct this activity. When we discover objects or games within Second Life that meet the policy’s definition, we will remove them from Second Life.

7. What will the consequences be for those who continue to play or operate games that fall under this policy?

Any user who consistently violates the policy or our Terms of Service will be suspended, and may be terminated. Linden Lab may also comply with validly issued subpoenas in connection with law enforcement investigations and legal actions.

8. I live somewhere where online gambling is not illegal. Does this policy apply to me?

This policy applies to all use of Second Life. It isn’t intended to describe what is or isn’t legal for any particular resident or in any particular place. It describes what Linden Lab believes is appropriate to maintain its business requirements and to operate Second Life.

9. Will this take effect immediately? How will it work procedurally to shut down? Will there be reimbursement involved for virtual casino owners?
* It will take effect immediately.
* Second Life Residents are responsible for their own behavior and compliance with the policy.
* There will be no reimbursement if Linden Lab removes objects or activities that violate this policy.

About Robin Linden

Be the Change. You must be the change you wish to see in the world. ---Mahatma Gandhi
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188 Responses to Wagering In Second Life: New Policy

  1. What I don’t understand is why various forms of usury (like gigantic credit card interest rates and fees) are legal, and gambling is against the law… 🙂

    I’m no fan of gambling, but I am a fan of freedom. I don’t think people should be forbidden from gambling if they really want to waste their money on it.

    But I understand Second Life has to comply with the law. I think it’s the law that’s wrong.

  2. Er, um, well, actually, I know so little about gambling I’m not sure if it’s outright illegal or not… sorry if I made any factual errors above. 🙂

  3. mykyl nordwind says:

    It would be nice if the link to the new policy actually worked – I wonder what it says there? 🙂

  4. Alex1 Richardson says:

    Uhoh, I hate to say it, but I think the feds are really starting to close in on SL. Next we will be reporting our SL income, and pay taxes on what we buy and sell here.

    I dont like it LL, I think you should begin plans to move your servers to an island somewhere…where there are limited or no laws that would inflict SL freedoms.

  5. So… does this mean the slot machine I own is completely useless?

  6. Dagmar Heideman says:

    Under the policies broad definitions of wagering, WSE should be shut down on SL since playing a virtual stock market is nothing more than wagering on a game of chance

  7. Dytska Vieria says:

    How about the actual link or an abstract? Logging in to support system to SEARCH Knowledge Base is cumbersome at least!

  8. Aaron Greenberg says:

    You won’t tell us that this will be the SL’s normal way of stability now? After the power outage the lag has become even worse…

  9. Chaz Longstaff says:

    God knows what the policy is now; the link is invalid and basically leads you to a nothing page.

    >> Apollia Pirandello Says: What I don’t understand is why various forms of usury (like gigantic credit card interest rates and fees) are legal, and gambling is against the law

    Ah, you see, it’s only illegal in countries such as Canada and America, where government hides behind moral blithering to make sure that gambling only happens when the governments get to pocket most of the money. And that’s about it in a nut shell. They’re not adverse to gambling profits; in fact, they’re addicted to them. That’s why they crack down so hard when someone tries to bypass them or muscle in on their turf.

  10. Dagmar Heideman says:

    Also say goodbye to sploder balls and raffle balls.

  11. Darien Caldwell says:

    Odd, LL seems to be censoring my attempt to provide a quote of the policy. I guess you are just out of luck.

  12. Harleen Gretzky says:

    The policy is unclear on “pot” games, like Tringo, Slingo, etc. There is no payout over and above what has been contributed to the pot. So are these types of games a violation of the policy?

  13. Dytska Vieria says:

    Goodbye gambling and kahzhinoes, no matter where you live.

  14. Syndel Daviau says:

    I wonder if the next hit will be on us escorts, put that prostitution is, too, illegal in the USA.

  15. elvisorbit says:

    When you go to the support page and login scroll down to the Most Recent Topics section. It is the first one.

  16. Chaz Longstaff says:

    Found the policy:
    Policy Regarding Wagering in Second Life

    It is a violation of this policy to wager in games in the Second Life© environment operated on Linden Lab servers if such games:

    (1) (a) rely on chance or random number generation to determine a winner, OR (b) rely on the outcome of real-life organized sporting events, AND
    (2) provide a payout in

    (a) Linden Dollars, OR
    (b) any real-world currency or thing of value.

    This includes (but is not limited to), for example, Casino Games such as:

    o Baccarat
    o Blackjack
    o Craps
    o Faro
    o Keno
    o Pachinko
    o Pai Gow
    o Poker
    o Roulette
    o Sic Bo
    o Slot machines

    It also includes Sports Books or Sports Betting, including the placing of bets on actual sporting events against a book-maker or through a betting exchange.

    Linden Lab will actively enforce this policy. If we discover gambling activities that violate the policy, we will remove all related objects from the inworld environment, may suspend or terminate the accounts of residents involved without refund or payment, and may report any relevant details, including user information, to authorities and financial institutions.

  17. Mimi says:

    where do we find this article? *confused*

  18. TaraLi Jie says:

    Well, this is not good. Basically, it says that if anything is illegal for any customer of Linden Labs, it’ll be not allowed for *all* Linden Labs customers. And considering the Arabic/Islamic countries attitudes on pornography, that means all sex *WILL* be shut down.

    I think this was a bad decision. We will see if SL can survive with a significant portion of its economy shut down.

    I can remember one situation somewhat like this in RL history. It didn’t turn out pretty at all. “Four score…”

  19. Dominique Dench says:

    Good Job!!! Thats a very good decision, last night i discut about shit on second life , casino (any gambling machine) is on all land on second life, more… Porn is a big problem to on second life, and other thing some king of peoples is very hungry to make moneyz and sell shit for hight price, try to take moneys from good peoples starting on second life, now am here for 6month, first impresion, thats a good game but lot of bug, sometime completly instable game, much lag every sim, bug bug bug,

    I no lindens you work on it every days but please follow what you say now. and kill the stupid hippie pay ou some king of business not good on second life, many owner have stupid business try to take 1cent for good peoples,thats not good for newbie, comming in sl, anayway sorry but i speak more french, if your forum is french to i talking in french to understand what i say, i have a real business on sl and many other real compagny interested invest on sl but the game is UNSTABLE all the time lol and too much shit in world, you need to start clean up the game, for gambling thats a good way to start erase this mtf and ban lol

  20. Lyndsey Forager says:

    I take it from reading the document that this policy will also affect sploder balls, raffle balls and random money orbs – what a shame – these are things people really do enjoy playing

  21. Dwayanu Weyland says:

    Policy says “all gambling is forbidden”

    To quote:

    “Policy Regarding Wagering in Second Life

    It is a violation of this policy to wager in games in the Second Life© environment operated on Linden Lab servers if such games:

    (1) (a) rely on chance or random number generation to determine a winner, OR (b) rely on the outcome of real-life organized sporting events,

    AND

    (2) provide a payout in

    (a) Linden Dollars, OR

    (b) any real-world currency or thing of value.

    This includes (but is not limited to), for example, Casino Games such as:

    o Baccarat
    o Blackjack
    o Craps
    o Faro
    o Keno
    o Pachinko
    o Pai Gow
    o Poker
    o Roulette
    o Sic Bo
    o Slot machines

    It also includes Sports Books or Sports Betting, including the placing of bets on actual sporting events against a book-maker or through a betting exchange.

    Linden Lab will actively enforce this policy. If we discover gambling activities that violate the policy, we will remove all related objects from the inworld environment, may suspend or terminate the accounts of residents involved without refund or payment, and may report any relevant details, including user information, to authorities and financial institutions.

    ” End Quote

  22. Chaz Longstaff says:

    >> Darien Caldwell Says: Odd, LL seems to be censoring my attempt to provide a quote of the policy. I guess you are just out of luck.

    Ditto. I just tried to post it too and it says “awaiting moderation”, LOL.

  23. Ejtc Shepherd says:

    This is not a policy. If it were, it would be clear & therefore closed to interpretation. It appears to me to be somewhat vague & as such is merely a guideline.

    Come on Boys & Girls, please may we have something clearer, particularly on the points raised above. Thank you.

  24. Anonymous Coward says:

    Good! I think gambling is one of the very worst things in Second Life, and am happy to see that some action is being taken.

  25. Ryan Alucinakis says:

    Tringo, and Slingo are great games and the money in the pot is not in my mind a gamble! whats next? if i bet someone inworld 10l they cant jump as high as me is that illegal too? Please LL move offshore so we can all be free of this idiot way of rl that we have to put up with, Mexico is not so far away!

  26. M Bailey says:

    Will this include objects like Slingo?

  27. Hanumi Takakura says:

    I think SL is starting an implosion process. It grew big and now it’s becoming small again. In the end, it will not have much more freedom that your average mmorpg for example.I wouldnt be surprised if this later gets viewed more as a game than an online place and the esrb (spelled right?) has to slap in a AO rating on it. 🙂

  28. Anonymous Coward says:
  29. Rhyph says:

    What about the various *ingo games and things like money sploders. They require pay in, and random chance for pay-out…

  30. Dirk Felix says:

    I’m a Native American, do you need to get my tribal role number?

    With some passing themsleves off as real coprorations doing business in-world, you have a larger dilema of allowing these people to continue playing corporation when this is a federal crime in most if not all countries. I say enforce your TOS and elimaintae accounts from thoe who openly steal from the community.

    Better to be proactive than to do the two step later. 😉

  31. Anonymous Coward says:

    I don’t think I’ll ever understand why people confuse “freedom” with “breaking the law”. Every time such an issue comes up, people like #19 vomit stuff like “In the end, it will not have much more freedom….”

    The law is the law, what the heck do you think Linden Labs is going to do about it? Get real! If the US government and regulatory agencies wanna give LL a hard time about something like gambling, they HAVE to comply.

  32. Dana says:

    @9 Definately, no more sploders & raffle balls. Can also see prize pot games getting the ax because they select winners by random. Seems the only way to pick up a few L$ that hasn’t been nuked by LL is camping. I understand the policy, and I do agree with it for the most part, but it just seems like SL is being forced to taste more and more like tofu with every new policy… bland and flavorless.

  33. Micah Giha says:

    What I find MOST disturbing in the policy is the statement regarding enforcement that Linden Labs will “remove all related objects from the inworld environment”. The threat to delete user-created content is a VERY serious concern!

  34. Mistoffelees66 Fimicoloud says:

    “We value free expression. However, stuff that’s off-topic, abusive, or otherwise busts the rules will be removed without comment.”

    Would someone from LL please explain to the rest of us how quoting information pertinate to the topic, right from this very same website, is “off-topic, abusive, or otherwise busts the rules”? I would think that making the information that much more availible should be condoned and encouraged. Or, is there something that is in there that someone deems unfit for general viewing?

  35. Lara says:

    What is going on?! You’ve got to be KIDDING me. I just dumped a whole bunch of money in order to invest in an SL casino.

    Wow, LL: thanks.

  36. Bobo Decosta says:

    I feel misled, I thought second life was another world where real life laws didn’t apply. If you issue one real life law you should issue them all. Or you say gambling is illegal, as is gay marriage and guns should be forbidden as well. Guns might be legal in the us, they aren’t where i live, but do you ever think these will be forbidden? No way! So i feel very discriminated that i should abbey only US laws while laws in my country are a joke to linden labs.

    The invasion of iraq was also illegal, the US is still there aren’t they? Why is again the whole world a victim of US imperialism!

  37. Montana Corleone says:

    @12 Harleen Gretzky – Slingo, since it is based on chance, I guess yes. Like sploders and raffle balls. On the other hand, things like Devil May Care, where there is skill involved in placing the pieces, are okay.

    However you should be clearer on all of this Linden. Are you intending it to cover things like sploders? That’s a shame.

    And @6 Dagmar Heideman is quite right. Since companies don’t exist as a legal entity in SL, just individuals, then Stock Exchanges should also be banned, since you are betting on whether something goes up or down, not dissimilar to sports betting. Or are the thousands of real dollars involved solely in a form of fantasy league?

    So, I’m guessing, that since you use the term Lindens, they are now deemed to have value, and are no longer worthless game tokens or software licenses. You can’t have your cake and eat it too. And I guess this sets a dangerous precednt. As a Euro, not only must I comply with my own laws, but also all of the restrictive nonsense in the US…

  38. jade carnot says:

    eventually, (and it seems to be approaching fast) SL will be the online equivalent of salt lake city or any other moralistic and hypocritical polity you can name!

  39. Web Page says:

    It’s rather frustreating to be unable to find the article. As a matter of fact I couldn’t find any info on policies on the website and neither could the search engine.

  40. Brent Finn says:

    WOW, bam, no more gambling of any kind in SL, none… welcome to RL2, enjoy your stay !!

  41. Akamu Lurra says:

    hmmm… power outages, teleporting problems, censorship… I guess my secondlife is turning into a first life nightmare. I particularly find it funny that they claim such acts of “online gambling” are illegal when Lindens are not legal tender in any country. They are only credits just like on a non-gambling gaming website (such as pogo.com). The only difference is you can buy and exchange these “credits”. By the way, with all these problems and censorship issues I really appreciate Linden Labs moving their billing from California to Great Britain forcing me to incur a “International Transaction Fee” without notifying me or giving me another option other than canceling or finding a new bank. I also am sure that this move will hurt the Second Life economy. Most residents make money to spend from camping stations funded by casinos. Without casinos, there will be no camping stations. Without camping stations residents will either have to pay real money into their accounts or simply not buy anything. If people don’t buy anything, there will be less stores. If there are less stores, less money gets paid to Linden Labs via land usage fees. That will eventually equate to stipend reduction and land use & private island fee increases. There will then be less residents which is good if you don’t like lag… at least that is a silver lining.

  42. Daedalus Young says:

    It is a violation of this policy to wager in games in the Second Life© environment operated on Linden Lab servers if such games:

    (1) (a) rely on chance or random number generation to determine a winner, OR (b) rely on the outcome of real-life organized sporting events,

    AND

    (2) provide a payout in
    (a) Linden Dollars, OR
    (b) any real-world currency or thing of value.

    So that includes SLingo/Tringo/Bingo? That would mean one of my fav places will be going. One I often win some money too!
    And so you can’t play Poker with some friends for a grand pot of L$100 ?
    This truly sucks!

  43. Orth Torok says:

    It is illegal to prostitue in real life, so is it in SL? Why have the escorts not been targeted? It is illegal to set of fireworks in my yard in RL, so did I break the law in SL when I did so on my island for July 4th? And so on and so forth with arguments that have been made before. There are MANY “illegal” activities in RL that could be the next to be slashed here. Can I build without a permit (sarcastic)??

  44. Lina Pussycat says:

    Go to the knowledge base link login at the bottom. new screen will come up click policies let it load on the right and look for it, The policy is there… It seems to refer to casino games im not sure if pot games would be out but i guess we’ll see…

  45. Cocoanut Koala says:

    I found the articles.

    Are the following activities now illegal in Second Life?

    1. BINGO, SLINGO, and OTHER GAMES where an individual wins the pot (donated by all players, and perhaps sweetened by the host)

    2. SPLODER BALLS

    3. RAFFLES

    Please answer these – yes or no.

    coco

  46. Smiley (Barry) says:

    This is actually funny, as we have sploders on the teen grid O.o .

    I don’t think sploders will be off, as it’s not really a bet. Right?

  47. Syndel Daviau says:

    @ 21

    Bobo, amen.

  48. Storyof Oh says:

    if you follow the link to knowledge base then search gambling that seems to take you to FAQ but the link to the article is at the top.
    Basically all forms of chance gambling will be removed from SL as i understand it. This is a biggie for owners of large plots relying on gambling income. Land values may drop like stones.

  49. nika talaj says:

    Policy also posted in forums, direct link:
    http://forums.secondlife.com/showthread.php?t=199826

  50. Buckaroo Mu says:

    Log into the support portal, and look under “Most Recent Topics, bottom of the page. It’s #1. Not that hard to find.

    Still reading, will let you know my feelings later 😛

  51. Storyof Oh says:

    Slingo is a no no

  52. Shinobi Hayashida says:

    I personally am NOT FOR gambling or sexually related contents or anything immoral for that matter, but I’m glad to hear Linden Lab do what is just and right toward immoral behaviors and does not propagate or encourage such.

    As to the example of the real life world, the Second Life world is what people make of it. Whether it be a brothel or a virtual Eden.
    Nevertheless, thumbs up for Second Life itself in my opinion!

  53. Hg Beeks says:

    @Dana – That’s not true, losing land dwell pretty thoroughly axed camping chairs for a while. I’m surprised they came back at all after that.

    Now, granted, I can’t read the updated policy (Odd… >.>) but the short version that’s outlined in the blog post is just that there’s no more casino classifieds/ads/place listings. There have been laws passed (One such on October 13 of last year) that were made to ban online gambling; It sounds as if LL has tried to keep that on the down-low. This isn’t to say that I’m for or against it, but I would like to see some of the land around my house become residential again, instead of yet another spinning cube with advertisements on it.

  54. Nulflux Negulesco says:

    I operate under the belief that you were required to follow your own local laws. Just because you are using an internet service to mask your activities does not mean you are exempt from the law. Think about it – you can go to prison for distributing illegal material on the interent, why not get fined/shutdown for not following your local / federal gambling regulations.

    The vast majority of SL users and gamblers should applaud Linden Labs stance on this issue – those laws were not only put in place to rake in money for the government, they were also put in place to limit the amount of corruption in the gambling industry. Most local/federal laws place definite extents on the odds of each type of game, preventing casinos from unfairly weighting the percentage of wins absurdly in their favor.

    I do feel that this issue becomes much more complicated because of this decision… For instance: I live 5 miles from a Anishinabe American Indian reservation. As many know, if you run a business from within reservation boundaries you are under soveriegnty of the American Indian tribe who legally resides in that reservation. In this instance, this reservation legally allows many forms of gambling and if I follow local laws, I would legally have premise for operating a casino in SL.

    I don’t currently operate gambling machines and I don’t intend to anytime soon, these are just my thoughts on the issue.

    #4 – Anytime a company averages millions of dollars in annual profit the FEDS are going to be involved. They are involved in everything, that’s why the exist : ) Companies like SL get audited yearly by independent auditing firms who report EVERYTHING about the company to the IRS. I’ve worked in accounting and I can’t imagine what they put the SL accountant through – auditors want paper copies of every agreement, every transaction, every damn business document you have (and then some!).

    This doesn’t even take into account the investigations into child pornography (or the depiction thereof) and other issues like copyright infringement. Once again, law enforcement is everywhere, that is why they exist. To enforce the laws which some ignore or blatantly violate.

  55. Cat Cotton says:

    Well as LL sanitizes the grid, this type of policy change will continue. Oh and Coco the other shoe just dropped.

    Cat

  56. Vanessa Sakai says:

    What about Lucky Chairs? They don’t require a bet so would they still be legal?

  57. Marianne McCann says:

    Will this include Slingo/Tringo/etc., as well as Sploders and other raffle type objects?

  58. tom suntzy says:

    Forget about this gambling stuff and let ppl be…. FIX THE BUGS WE HAVE NOW !!!!

  59. Tracy Welles says:

    Gambling is not Illegal in the United States of America. Not unless of course the government isn’t getting their share. If they are, they are absolutely happy allowing crime infested gambling boats to plague the rivers edges. Fact is, the laws are ever changing in favor of gambling. What used to be a must for a gambling boat to be on the water and movable is now not even mandatory. They don’t have to move, and they are really not gambling boats anymore.

    It’s insane how the government has gone about legalizing gambling in their best of interests. Allowing local laws to be slowly but surely wiped in favor of such.

    Nevertheless, That is the way it is in the US. We claim illegal gambling and have gambling all over the place. You can hardly get away from it.

  60. Tony says:

    Next you should ban alcohol and ensure only good honest Christians are playing. George Bush will be proud of you.

  61. I was going to have a random giveaway of L$100 every Saturday to a random member of my Second Life group, as a way of attracting members – is that now forbidden? 😦

    @9, Chaz Longstaff Says: “Ah, you see, it’s only illegal in countries such as Canada and America, where government hides behind moral blithering to make sure that gambling only happens when the governments get to pocket most of the money. And that’s about it in a nut shell. They’re not adverse to gambling profits; in fact, they’re addicted to them. That’s why they crack down so hard when someone tries to bypass them or muscle in on their turf.”

    Thanks for the interesting answer!

  62. Vanessa Sakai says:

    With Lucky Chairs no bet is placed. Is this banned too?

  63. Tracy Welles says:

    PS… For all these questions about sploders and lucky chairs. Those are not payable gambling devices with no chance of payout or winning. When you put money in a spolder, set it up so everyone gets a chunk of the pie. Hardly gambling. One person gets a little more than another. With the Lucky Chair, that is for promotional purposes and does not require a payment of anykind to win. I wouldn’t worry too much about all of this. This is SL covering their own backside with a little FUD is all.

  64. Skye Hutchence says:

    Well, looks like my 2 years in SL has come to an end then. Poker is my source of income, and if they want to play big brother, I’ll do something else with my time. The imbeciles at Linden Labs do nothing but damage the SL experience these days, and I hope a competing game arises soon and replaces them.

  65. Harley Bearcat says:

    Whats next are the going to get rid of the lotteries they are state run in the US and what about the clubs with dancers there are laws about that to.

  66. Ryan Alucinakis says:

    There is no such thing as a virtul world unless LL offshore! get on with it or die a slow and painfull death and no one wants to see that. Please set up you world anywhere but the USA.

  67. Siryn Rosse says:

    Next thing you know, we won’t be able to charge fees for escort services. Take it overseas, LL, or the only things left to do on SL will be getting griefed in sandboxes and going to church.

    Dang. I was really enjoying the casinos, too.

  68. sirhc DeSanti says:

    Well – easy answer. Publish server side code as open source and i’ll set up a region in my bedroom. Don’t particularly like casinos but if people want to pay..and no I don’t live in the states. Oh and yes land price should plummet, but gotta move quick. Wheres my credit card? Vampie time lol

  69. Harleen Gretzky says:

    @22 Montana – Devil may Care and Slingo are the same thing, just a newer name. My question is not the chance aspect but the payout aspect, you need both to violate this policy. So does a game where teh pot comes from contributions by other players count as a violation?

  70. Micah Giha says:

    Hmmm… I tried quoting less than one line of the policy and my post is ‘awaiting moderation’ … I have been posting on this blog from time to time since February … definitely not a first post!

    Why is LL restricting the content of the new policy to inside it’s log-in required support portal when it should have been posted here on the blog in its entirety. It is very short. It would have fit.

  71. Harleen Gretzky says:

    @38 Tracy – Online gambling is illegal in the US, congress tacked on as an amendment to another bill they knew would pass.

  72. Briian Messmer says:

    You gotta be fucking kidding me.

  73. Ariel Erlanger says:

    There is a little vagueness in this last clause that I would like to clear up if that’s possible:

    “(2) provide a payout in
    (a) Linden Dollars, OR
    (b) any real-world currency or thing of value.”

    Does the second part of 2b mean, “any real-world thing of value” or “any thing of value, real-world or otherwise”? It would seem to me that a lucky chair would fall under the second interpretation (giving out, on the basis of chance, a virtual “thing of value” that isn’t Linden dollars) but not the first.

  74. Pie Psaltery says:

    One more strike against “Your World, Your Imagination”.

  75. R B Darr says:

    The definitions seem too broad.

    If we apply these definitions to the “game” of land speculation in SL then land ownership would constitute a violation of the policy, since the land owner’s ability to profit in the land speculation game 1) relies on chance, and 2) provides a payout in Linden Dollars.

    And no, I am not trying to be funny. I am trying to illustrate the difficulty in enforcing these broad definitions.

  76. Krypt Hax says:

    What about games like magic, and so on?

  77. Xerxes Xiao says:

    Maybe some nice Native American tribe can start a casino that we can all go to gamble, just like we can go to Indian Casinos all over California!

    I see a business opportunity!

  78. Tracy Welles says:

    @47 Yes. I understand this. But please be aware that the only reason this was the case was because the law wasn’t getting a cut. We have State Lottery in every state in the Union. We have gambling boats (Well used to be boats) lined up all along the rivers.

  79. This action is ethically wrong. As stated residents are responsible for THEIR LOCAL laws. This blows that out the window. LL pretends the fault is with residents that have been legally operating under their local law and the terms of service while wiping out the value of their investments. Shameful.

  80. Aphrodite Tagore says:

    You know, I live on The Rez here in Palm Springs, and the Agua CAliente are building a huge new hotel on the AGua Caliente Casino Grounds, It will be great!

    Also, I went to North Dakota to work on a film back in May, IRL. Our route took us through Las Vegas where there we a few Casinos. Then we went through Utah, and into Idaho..I didn’t see any Casinos in those places,.

    We stayed overnight in Billings, Montana, where Millionaire poker player Annie Duke got her start at the Crystal Casino, and the next day we were in Williston ND which has some nice Casinos.

    Yep, Gambling sure is illegal in the US, Phil. Anyone can see that just by driving around…there is NO GAMING IRL. I like your ability to kowtow to the Paranoid US Congress. I imagine the IRS will be here soon, and we’ll all be getting out 1099’s in February.

    /me wonders what ever became of Liberty. Stuff folks used to DIE for IRL. (..and they still do some places.)

    Amazed that with a stellar, creative idea like this, you are one of “We, the sheeple…)

    Aphrodite Tagore
    Head Escort / Velvet Underground

  81. Smelly Sodwind says:

    Well, maybe LL should move to the IOM, Channel Island or some freer place like an EU Country where this sort of crap wouldn’t have happened.. People have made and continue to make a living (albeit small sometimes) in SL and to have ridiculous laws prohibiting this is insane… and affecting people.

    After all this is the ‘adult’ grid is it not? Where we are meant to be able to make our own minds up about this sort of thing.. I know for sure I can control myself, I have no problems deciding what I should and shouldn’t be doing with out a law that tells me that wgering is bad!

    Silly laws! I’m glad I live where I do and not in a country where the government think they have the right to tell me rubbish like this!

    Governments need to remember that they are there to run our countries, NOT rule our lives!

    LL needs to remember that there are people from all over the world that enjoy their creation, so maybe in the interests of ALL residents, they really should move the operation to a freer land, that would keep all happy.

  82. Jeff says:

    Wouldn’t buying anything in SL be considered a game of chance. The odds are there 😉

  83. Ryan Alucinakis says:

    Has SL been shut down because of this as i cant get online for 1 hour now? Please LL respond?

  84. Xerxes Xiao says:

    SL needs to leave the planet beyond the reach of all Earth’s politicians!

    I am sure the Russian Federation could boost all of LL’s equipment for a reasonable amount of hard currency. Power it with a nuclear reactor so no one would want to shoot it down.

    I would rather see SL in orbit rather than the useless International Space Station (ISS).

  85. Mel says:

    Question: Tringo is a skill game.. but it depends on the chance that certain shapes will show up that fit your pattern. You aren’t winning by random generation of numbers or position… but the actual tiles are random. So… is it a game of chance? I know it isnt in the broader terms but….
    Also, since people put money in on the chance that they will win some back.. is that gambling? I have always held that it wasnt because you had to accomplish/create something to win.

    If the answer to that one is yes.. then, are all competitions in SL gambling where you enter in the hopes of winning money or an item and others determine your fate?

    I know all this seems simple from the outside but it sure could get sticky.

  86. Trish Brennen says:

    Yeah please clarify a little as to sploders, raffles,slingo, tringo etc.

  87. Prospero Lane says:

    I don’t think Linden Labs had any choice. It has to conform to the law or there wouldn’t be any LL, and hence no SL. Linden Labs is a US-based corporation (so is SL-the servers), and is thus subject to US law. The same would be true if it was based in the UK or Brazil. In that case, everyone would be whining about British or Brazilian laws, especially a law as stupid as the internet gambling act.

    I just don’t see this as the end of SL civilization as we know it. It was clear this new policy was coming. There’s plenty of other things to do in SL, and if anyone really wants to lose their money, I’ll be happy to give them directions to Foxwoods or Mohegan Sun (real not virtual) casinos.

  88. Moveing Out says:

    Linden Labs you just set back the next gen. of the internet by 20 years atleast.Stand up for gods sake and have some balls release the sever code or move it off shore and tell the U.S. goverment to take a flying fuck

  89. Samantha Chandler says:

    Lately you are gambling every time you try to rez a no-copy object. I wonder if that will be banned soon.

  90. Phoenixa Sol says:

    Thank you Jeff #52, I needed that chuckle

  91. Cozmik Voon says:

    I’m thinking its might be time to cash out L$. I’d guess 40% on the “economy” in SL is connected to gambling in one way or another. (50% based on sex).

    This could drive the value of the L$ down as people forced out of business leave and cash out.

  92. Danniel says:

    it would be better if the FAQ had real answers:

    “This policy only applies to wagering games that meet the criteria listed above.”

    This is for example not an answer. If you include a FAQ it’s better if you use it to make things clearer. If all the answers are simply to read the policy again, feel free to delete the FAQ

  93. Ryan Alucinakis says:

    Even the web page is down? Cannot find server? really?

  94. 6fish Sixgallery says:

    Can’t help thinking this is going to damage the long term future of SL. A large percentage of new users scrape a living from casinos as a better way of camping. Now they won’t be able to and regular camping spots will be swamped. People are going to go away because they won’t be able to get up and running. No new players means sales will fall in other areas etc etc. “The end is nigh!”

  95. Tony says:

    Move your servers to Europe. This is absolutely ridiculous.

  96. Jeffery Beckersted says:

    I predict an in world ‘valueless’ currency that people will buy and sell on the black market, how will LL respond to this?

  97. Alicia Roeth says:

    I am very very aggrieved that I joined a game i assumed to be world wide. Only to find I am going to have to live my SL under US federal Law, laws which, to most of america and the rest of the civilised would are made from greed, and not from moral or ethical belief. I live in the UK, can Linden Lab honestly get away with terminating accounts where no law has been broken. Can they continue to expand thier TOS to keep the American Government happy. Your customers Linden are world wide. Show some respect!!!!

  98. Bruno Buckenburger says:

    The Tringo/Slingo type of games that LL trumpeted in their marketing at one time fall into this category if poker does. Both are player-to-player games.

    I am assuming sex for money is next. I live in Las Vegas, NV where gambling is legal and hookers are not. When does that crackdown happen?

  99. Eme says:

    Having log in issues as well but there is nothing on the blog about this. Don`t want to get off topic, but someone from LL might read that here and start to take care of that as it seems it is not only me who has issues.

    Back to topic…I do think too that this will affect sl much. Gambling is a big part of sl….

  100. MrLunk Voom says:

    heej why dont you ban sex ?

  101. Chasy Furse says:

    *packs her bag and waves SL good bye

  102. Rusty Dagger says:

    Great!! Instead of Gambling we can all Buy a 512 plot and cut it up into 16m2’s and sell them for 20000 L a piece. Probably make more money that way anyhow!!! YEHAWW

  103. Jeremy Marquez says:

    Linden Labs tried this awhile back it didn’t work, it’s a game people do what can’t be done in reality and gambling is one, everything is a gamble even buying stuff in SL is a gamble and so is SL

  104. Missy Malaprop says:

    nothing has changed, you have never been allowed to break the law using SL… this is nothing new other than LL giving people a warning that they need to be careful because many are breaking the law.

    people who try to say this will go over to escorts and guns or whatever are just being silly. If you set up a virtual gambling place where people get free “chips” and can bet and win more or less and it has no real world dollar value, it will be perfectly acceptable. Escorts in SL arent really prostitutes, as talking (or typing) dirty to others isnt illegal for pay or not. Neither are “guns” that are not really even a gun illegal…

  105. Sunny says:

    shake’s her head, another well done job LL, you guys are insane!
    what’s next doing away with alcohol?

  106. Foxxe Wilder says:

    Although personally I would not support gambling myself I find the very idea that US laws forbid SOOO much in life that one could HARDLY consider it a free country anymore.

    SIEG HEIL!!

    “Sign, sign, Ev’rywhere a sign, blocking out the scenery,
    Breaking my mind. Do this, don’t do that,
    Can’t you read the sign?” 5 Man Electrical Band

  107. Tempest McLeod says:

    I really discontent with how the outside world is effecting our sl community with all its micro managing of things. You go into any gaming world on the net and find some sort of gambling in the games, SL is after all a game , like Wow. Everquest and so on , why is it that SL is being centered out on every lil thing? Because others do not have anything better to do then ruin every thing fun in the world? I am not entirely clear what SL is asking, are you wanting to have us delete all our games, every amusement park game, you pay money to play a game of chance? ever casino game, slingo and xyingo and anything else that is a considered a game? are we going to be compensated for this in any way as it was no restricting on these things and we the residents were allowed this and now are not ? What will be next? I am seriously concerned , i pay alot of money to play this game i am talking thousand a month practically to own land and have my club and help others and rentals , clothes whatever, are clothes and so on going to be next because they are fashioned after real world things? what about art ? that to is something that is also questionable, are you the creators of SL going to continue to take this laying down , we need a legal department i think or someway to protect us the consumer and resident as well as the makers of our 3d game .. what can we do ? I am seriously concerned of the continual existence of our gaming world.. What ever happened to our rights as citizens of America, i mean we can go into any casino and gamble, for example i live in new Orleans and there are casinos all over the place so why suddenly is it now banned in our gaming world? I don’t understand this at all really .. can someone explain in more simpler words , do we delete our games or what? and are we going to be reimbursed with something for this finical loss ? Do not take this as i am putting down our gaming world, i am not i am just trying to understand is all. I am a hard core player here some 16+ hours aday working and building what not , trying to have a place to enjoy and have fun is all . Sl is the greatest !

  108. cnyreject says:

    What about Splodders, contest boards, and Other club L$ activities? Are they all history too..

    pray tell me hopes not!

  109. Guy says:

    Anyone want to buy some cheap land? Second life is completely useless now….

    Bye bye sploder hunting….
    Bye bye raffletron…
    Bye bye random money for hanging around…

    Bye bye second life…

  110. Rokko says:

    Bye SL

  111. Rokko says:

    I will call my loyer for bringing my money back

  112. Tony says:

    @64, what’s the difference between escorts and gambling? It’s real money being used, you’re very naive if you think escorts aren’t next.

  113. Taff Nouvelle says:

    It was fun while it lasted, RIP SL…

  114. Guy says:

    @64 & @69 keep up with the blogs

    Sex and porn have already been banned from Second Life.

  115. shorti ferraris says:

    So now whats the point of being a club owner with no sploder or contests for money. But in real life Raffles are legal and so are contests winning money so I dont see how that would be considered under gambling. Funny thing is they cut out gambling trust me escorting is next.

  116. Stefan Arcadia says:

    Adios, SL. Adios LL. This is the final disappointment. Cowards.

  117. sirhc DeSanti says:

    #71 oh really? when was that then?

  118. Franko Corleone says:

    ABOUT TIME !
    The thieves have finally been brought to task !
    KUDOS linden Labs
    KUDOS

  119. Gigs Taggart says:

    You all screwed up, the way your policy is worded now, it bans sweepstakes and decidedly non-wagering activities.

    You need to mention something about “paying to participate” or you ban a lot of non-gambling.

  120. Harwood Hax says:

    i understand LL want to comply with state and federal laws… it keeps them in the clear of any lawsuits of future unseen.. what you have to realise here, people.. is that ONE lawsuit from some jo-schmo could put this whole thing under in a matter of months… ONE wrong thing (and be honest with yourslef.. theres MANY in SL).. and im sure LL lawyers are all over stuff like that.. and this, sadly.. is one of them… Lin can be transferred into ANY currency, therefore you ARE gambling with real money! keep reality into perspective.. theyre only doing whats best for the game. (and for the guy ^up there that asked “Bobo Decosta Says:

    I feel misled, I thought second life was another world where real life laws didn’t apply. If you issue one real life law you should issue them all. Or you say gambling is illegal, as is gay marriage and guns should be forbidden as well. Guns might be legal in the us, they aren’t where i live, but do you ever think these will be forbidden? No way! So i feel very discriminated that i should abbey only US laws while laws in my country are a joke to linden labs.” really simple… LL is in California.. and will be subject to US laws first 🙂

    my issue is the “no reimbursement” factor. understood they couldnt possibly go through EVERYONE that has a gambling machine.. etc.
    BUT
    where does all this money go now that people have spent hard earned/bought linden on all these machines?? nowhere?? understand, LL were not all part of some company or foreign cash-cow company out to make a business on selling some random MMO’s money on the internet… i, for one, am a bartender… yup some random schmo bartender that found something fun to do on the internet. and a lot of us are just that.. random schmo’s out to have some fun.
    i know a LOT of people that have dumped MAD amounts of cash organizing a “house of the rising sun” and those are the people that are going to be mad upset about this.. basically.. they now have to shut down and completely dismantle what theyve known and loved on SL for so long?? (yes.. believe it or not.. gambling CAN be fun.. its not the work of the devil.. just another american dream to make the almighty dollar) again.. hardly seems fair… no “ok, you can do this instead”……. just…. “close your doors, please….. o.. wait.. there wasnt even a please… damn thats rough!

    my suggestion;
    you guys better be working OVERTIME on the MATURE rating… because i REALLY see a HUGE boom in the adult market after this.. i, for one, couldnt be happier.. thats what i do.. and maybe this will send more business our way.. but, damn, i cant help to feel bad for the poor folks who are now just up and out of the blue out of business!!

    ….. support single mothers… tip your local stripper 🙂

  121. Nevaeh Richez says:

    Isn’t this a fantasy game? Did I miss something? I like gambling in here it is a nice break from reality and isn’t that the point?

    I don’t exchange my L$ to collect my $1.38 USD in winnings, I just dump it back into the community.

    Next thing you’ll try to tell me is we can’t TP or fly because we can’t do that in RL either.

  122. coofoo voom says:

    Gambling was the only reason i played the game, much the the game has gambling in it, second life is going to see lots of money lost and players leaving due to this, why even play second life now???

  123. rowancrisp says:

    While I have no great sense of grief over the end of casinos in SL, I’m wondering who is next, and how much investment people are going to lose then…

  124. Mike1 Shepherd says:

    I’m concerned. I read an article about Second Life in Southwest Airline’s “Spirit” magazine and thought what a wonderful way to relax. I jumped in, first I rented a small apartment, then I rented some land, then today I started looking at buying some land. Now I’m not so sure. In the past week since I’ve joined, the system has crashed, the lag is horrible, and now the rules are changing to reflect the society that we are trying to escape.
    If we are going to start enforcing all the laws, then they’re can be no gender changing (masquerade laws), no escorts (prostitution laws), No furries having sex (bestiality laws), no war gaming (on line murder), the list goes on…

    I’ll sign this concerned resident (also known as noobe

  125. Lytton says:

    You cannot approach the problem this way… beacause if you think about it everything is a game of chance. they ban casinos beacause they had to, some people were making to much money out of it. it’s ok for a company to make profits out of the exchange rate of currencies (i.e. certain forex companies), where people really rely on a statistical outcome that is not certain (therefore you “gamble”, “betting” on some price to grow or shrink) but it’s not ok to make profit out of a casino bet, beacause in the long run the casino always wins. the only problem is the trading company also wins on the long run. in a game of poker there a better players who take money from weaker players ON THE LONG RUN. it’s the same with trading, you win money that others lose (of course the process is more complicated).. so why not ban it all?? let’s ban everything… let the government decide our entire life course.. it will eventually end up to that anyway

  126. Peggy Paperdoll says:

    @ post #50.

    Read the third paragraph of the blog posting. It explains what you are calling ethically wrong. You (or I) might not agree with it but there is nothing unethical about it.

  127. cnyreject says:

    If you complain about this policy .. better go see a shrink.. Seems your hooked on betting! And bye bye to you from SL if you don’t think that SL is nothing more then a place to gamble.

    Oh, don’t forget to shut the door behind you and make sure to delete your avatar once you leave.. No need for SL false positives 🙂

  128. Minnie Trottier says:

    Unfortunately there are rules about online gambling/casinos. As of now there are no rules about online gay marriage or online guns or online murder.
    Because SL is on the web it has to follow online rules. Even in Second Life, some real life rules need to apply.
    Not that I’m going to miss the lag infested casinos any!

  129. Freak Forder says:

    Apparently, they’ve chosen to address their growth and lag issues by turning Second Life into a sterile place no-one will want to visit.

  130. LynnDuh Paster says:

    in that case, real estate speculation in SL should also be banned .. its just another form of gambling .. put all the land prices back to where they were two years ago, and make lindens 500 to the dollar again …

    otherwise, its hypocritical …

  131. Rabia Kohime says:

    lol @55.

    Agreed on move the servers overseas. And i particularly like the suggestion someone made about hosting a region out of their bedroom, hah.

    … But seriously, pick up ‘n move overseas, then tell whatever feds to get off your case.

  132. Rayito Bailey says:

    What if Im a Indian?? Can I have a Casino??

  133. Nina says:

    i really feel sorry for the ppl who spent lots and lots of passion and work into building up a place to have fun with other residents. and please dont be pathetic… you rarely make a lot of lindens by owning such a place, its work mostly… but a lot of fun too, socializing with others. and come on… loosing a 100L does not really make you hooked on betting, right? playing games is about fun. i think this will kill about a third of SL at least…

    but i liked the idea of an alternate currency sold on the black market, lets do this! 😉

  134. Gedden Winthorpe says:

    I sincerly hope that LL will at least allow *some* time for the creators of these games to change the scripts so that the typical gambling games can be used for non monetary enjoyment. Most creators require an exchange of the old game in order to receive the update. If LL removes the games that are in my inventory (not in world) I have NO way of exchanging them… This is quite disturbing.

  135. Ceera Murakami says:

    Sems to me that this also bans Slingo, Tringo, lucky chairs, raffle balls and ‘sploders. All of these depend on random chance to pay out ‘something of value’.

    It might be wise if they would make an exception for random gift givers that do NOT require a payment to play, like lucky chairs. Those are not gambling – they are random promotional offers, given for free, to promote a product line.

    I never have been interested in gmabling in SL. It was completely unregulated, and you have better odds of a fair game with the local street gangs playing craps in a slum than you had of getting a fair deal in SL. After all, the street gangs knew that they could get arrested and jailed if a PO’ed customer turned them in for running a rigged game. An SL casino owner would just laugh at you, as they walked away with your money.

  136. Apollo Case says:

    I have to agree with the first poster on this blog, that I don’t like gambling, but everyone has the freedom to choose whether or not to waste their money.

    I don’t this is going to be the end of SL though, however after gambling, who knows what they will go after. SL needs to make their servers open source as soon as they can, so that there is no one place that can be targeted by overzealous regulators.

    Moving their main servers to somewhere more Internet friendly might also be a good idea – especially with the power outages that continue to hit in SF.

  137. Dirk Meriman says:

    #47
    Online gambling IS NOT illegal in the United States. The bill you referred to makes it illegal for banks to receive payments from online gambling sites. You can gamble all you like online, you’ll just have to be creative in getting paid.

    And, SL, please… The reason that Full Tilt Poker and PokerStars are still doing business is that Poker has been determined to NOT be a game of chance by an appellate court. Until that ruling has been overturned, playing poker for money (or Lindens) is still LEGAL in the US. Learn the law before you make stupid knee-jerk rules like this.

  138. Wake UP says:

    All I can say is good bye and you wont be missed. Most of these gambling casinos are nothing but rip off joints.

    How many complaints have we had from residents that the owners of these gambling casinos arbitrarily neglected to provide payouts to otherwise legal winnings by residents? How many more were never reported because the newbie or unsuspecting “gambler” did not know were to go and report the abuse by these casino owning thieves.

    Casinos in SL are unregulated and on any given day, hour, or minute the payout percentages can be arbitrarily and suddenly changed by the casino owner without the residents knowing anything for the worst.

    Kudos LL, Its about time!

  139. Noctorne says:

    Unfortunatly this only has to do with law because of the credit card companies. LL has two choices. A make no money at all by not being able to process credit cards anymore, or B make less money then they are now but still make some by not allowing what the credit card companies dont allow. This happened to me last oct when my profits from an affiliate gambeling website went from $500/mo to $0 after the law was passed banning all online gambling and the credit card companies forced paypal, stormpay, netteller and everyone else to not process stuff for gambleing sites or thier merchant accounts would be banned. SL would not be here without the company that backs it, which relys on credit card payments to get money into the economy.

  140. Lytton says:

    that’s not the point cnyreject… i’m simply complaining about a rule that prohibits a persons right to do something. if you are old enough to own a gun then you are old enough to decide what to do with your own money… i;m not a gambler. but gambling is something that i find harmless next to guns or prostitution. here at least it’s only about your money and not other isues that can do real harm in real life.

  141. Harald Nomad says:

    I have a trashcan that gives out a random item from its contents on click. Although the clicker does NOT pay to get anything – as such the item is a gift – the item may or may not have an in-world value, can be sold and then turned into real life currency. Points 1a and 2b are met, with a big question mark on the interpretation of “wager”. The clicker only has one chance (except the smart clickers), so the amount of RL gain is based on a randomizer.

    Are trashcans illegal too? According to the text of the policy it is, but I can’t remember the last time a (RL) hobo was arrested for gambling because s/he took an item out of a trashcan. But then again, being homeless is illegal in some countries…

    Please be more specific in your policy and I can use advice on whether or not I can leave out the trash.

    Hmm… Maybe I better don’t take a gamble on this and dump the trash in the river from now on?

  142. mush Caldera says:

    I live in the U.S.A and I know of no law against gambling with play money. Lindens are not convertable to US funds, by any guaranteed method. They are just sold to other players who want play money. I don’t get it. Will Monopoly games be banned next in RL?

  143. Risa Edo says:

    From what I’ve seen of how this affected other online games and websites (the easiest being Pox Nora), Tringo, DMC, and the like will be deemed illegal if someone runs the game with mandatory pot contributions. If you donate the money to the host, who then gives it away to the winner, it doesn’t directly violate the black letter of the law, but a court could still rule against it. Since they’re “playing safe”, you can probably expect to see those games disappear soon as well.

    Second Life is little more than dressing up a virtual doll to go to a sex club with all the changes recently, could LL please start marketing it as such? 🙂 I think I’m pretty much done with SL until this is resolved, anything I can do in SL that might be fun now has some other incarnation on the internet that has code dedicated to the game or activity in question that makes it run faster and more reliably.

  144. Zoren Manray says:

    While I don’t think this will kill Sl it’s definitely going to mean some rough times ahead. Gambling does make up a big portion of business in SL. My primary reason for being in SL was never for gambling. and maybe it’ll be good if the land prices drop they’ve gotten way to expensive lately and lower prices would alolow people to attempt more unique projects

    As for online gambling in the US. to my knowledge even those companies that can legally practice gambling in RL still are forbidden from practicing it in any form online. so even if you’re on an native American reservation or an executive at one of the Nevada casinos you still can’t legally have a gambling operation in SL. I know it’s screwed up but that’s what you git when you have representatives vested in special interests and half so old they don’t understand the internet and are afraid of it. 😦

  145. Taff Nouvelle says:

    I am not complaining about gambling as such being banned, but it seems that SL is becoming a part of the real world where all fun is regulated. What reason will any newplayer have to stay and spend money here if they cannot have the fun that they wanted here???
    I can see the sex industry here being classified as pornography in the very near future, and that will be the end of SL.
    They have to move the servers out of the USA. The restrictive laws there are completely negating the premise of a world of your imagination.

  146. Perefim Cao says:

    hmm… wonder if I shoot an avatar in game if I will now be charged for assault.. and if you have the IRS moves in and makes us report every transaction for tax purposes…

    then I wonder if they will make me keep track of every 1L$ sale of my items in world that I basically give away… ^^

    Oh knows you missed 275 1L$ transactions… you criminal!

  147. Risa Edo says:

    “All I can say is good bye and you wont be missed. Most of these gambling casinos are nothing but rip off joints.”

    You went to the one casino in the entire grid that is a rip off artist, then, 99% of them (or better) have staff that works hard to make sure their games are fair and work the way they are supposed to.

  148. Risa Edo says:

    “I can see the sex industry here being classified as pornography in the very near future, and that will be the end of SL.”

    Good idea, let’s push them to that end. (That is, the end of the servers being located in the US.) I’m already doing research for a speech for a class about Jack Thompson. When I’m at his site next, I’m going to let him know about a porn game that needs his attention.

  149. Digital Digital says:

    All this is going to do is open up underground casinos lol

  150. RobbyRacoon says:

    I applaud this policy, I feel it’s long overdue.

  151. DigitalJoe Saintlouis says:

    Big Brother No Longer Just Virtual In Second Life.

    It seems inevitable as SL grew to be this large that it’s creators’ based content would be scrutinized for possibly offending someone.

    I’m willing to bet gambling was never an issue in SL until a few well known corporations started playing “The Game”. LL has been on a world wide ad campaign since I began playing “The Game” in Oct 06.
    and they’ve succeeded. If my memory serves correctly, there were just over 1.5 million residents when I joined and now there are over 8 million? LL’s Ad campaign worked! It’s attracted world wide attention, the attention of corporations and their financial providers.

    New rules of The Game…
    All creator based content will come from corporations within SL. Those objects will comply with every governments’ regulations as we all know the individual is too dangerous to himself and others to be able to create anything useful or “fun”.

    The virtual reality of “The Game” is that the rules and real world laws now apply to everyone and everything.

    I’m glad SL grew to be this big with so many residents. It’s unfortunately sad that we can no longer choose to think of SL as a game, virtual or otherwise.

    Nine Inch Nails’ “Head Like A Hole” comes into mind when I think about what’s happening here. Bow down before the one you serve, you’re going to get what you deserve. We all make choices here and we’ve all seen the choices of LL. When are we going to start making our own choices again? When is their wake up call? How will it be delivered?

    Make your voice be known In World..In Game. Believe it or not everyone, it IS JUST A GAME.

  152. elvisorbit says:

    Don’t think Lucky Chairs or trashcans are under this as they don’t take any wager to win. As it says wagering games nothing about randomly giving out free stuff.

  153. LustfulVal says:

    So are you going to refund all the people that have bought the games on you site and paid lots of money for them and get told now that banned hmmmm

  154. Nina says:

    ..this will affect most entrepeneurs on SL. if ppl cant earn their money on slingo, poker or whatever, what are they gonna spend in my club or my shop? hate to see the impact on SL economy… i guess it would be nice for linden to see more ppl buy currency now cause there’s no other way to make money, huh?

  155. Digital Digital says:

    @Cocoanut Koala

    I think it would be stupid if they banned slingo and tringo and pizza, because they are all like bingo and bingo is almost everywhere around the world that know of.

  156. inacentaur says:

    I personally dislike casinos, as I have been cheated as both builder and scripter by a number of such organizations. However, I really don’t believe the policy is correct from an impartial standpoint.

    The policy is not only a) politically incorrect, b) would cover *constructive-purposes promotional* variations of gambling congress never thought possible (lucky chairs for example), c) destroy SL as a virtual world where one has the privilege to do whatever’s possible in one’s own home.

    In question form:

    1a. Is it not politically incorrect to impose a US law on the international scene?

    1b. If a US law is imposed on SL, then some kamikaze law from some third world country should also be up for imposing on SL. Where and what is the limit, or is the US given a special advantage?

    2. Are we no longer allowed to gamble against ourselves in a private slot machine on some abandoned basement?

    3. If a bunch of friends gather together to watch a sports show, would they be disallowed the leisure of friendly gamble?

    4. Are lucky chairs also disallowed? They are often used for promotion and for self-advertising.

    5. Will LL just get rid of the frand function?

    6. Oh, no, but then we would httprequest the random seed. Would LL cut off httprequest?

    7. Finally, on the gambling law in general:

    a) Gambling is a form of spending money, and it does not possess any harm to the public.

    b) It does not directly promote the spread of STD’s or casualties from drunk driving.

    c) Everyone’s money is their own property. The direction of money flow is their own discretion.

    d) If they choose to spend it on a means that is publicly safe, they should be allowed the leisure to direct the usage of their money.

  157. Loopi Looby says:

    I only play the sploders and the odd slot machine, but am sickened that I no longer have the right to partake in a legal activity in SL because it is not legal in a different country.

    Bring in the ID/age verification that was promised and include a check for your location in RL and then evict you from a casino if you are not legally able to take part.

    Im also worried about what this means to the SL virtual economy and future of SL. Many people have payed $1000s for virtual land and opened casinos, a lot of them have done this legally. However in one change of policy that no one agreed to, Lindens have rendered thier casinos worthless and they will loose vast sums of money selling the land. Wouldnt surpise me if some residents dont attempt to sue and i wish them every sucess.
    Even though this doesnt affect me massively, I feel violated….
    Loopi

  158. Mija Ayakashi says:

    The USA’s Christian Taliban wins again!
    If you live in the US, write your congressperson and senators and tell them to repeal the ban that the Republicans and their bluenosed evangelical backers forced on this country in the last weeks before they were thrown out of power.

    If you live outside the USA, write to the leadership in the US Senate and Congress and tell them what a laughingstock they are making of the US around the world.

  159. Sunny says:

    escorts next PLEASE!!!!

  160. Rokko says:

    Americans next please

  161. Sunny says:

    and while you’re at it do away with campers!

  162. Envi Kanno says:

    Finally…I’m glad, no more casinos cluttering up the damn search engine and popular places

  163. Arnold Wilder says:

    If only they listed what was allowed, now it’s clear as mud!

  164. Muram Neruda says:

    Wow, crack down on web gambling hits SL. In RL its beacuse of money, so what about in world commerce? What about games that have a pay out like Slingo, money balls, or for that matter any virtual game that pays virutal money? Sorry Lindens but your slogan of “Your World Your Imagination” is eroding into “Our World Our Imagination.” But hey, why should you care? 🙂 your the ones making the money.

  165. Nina says:

    @90/91

    how bout throwing away the whole idea of a currency in general…?

  166. Hermione Dagger says:

    Well, its interesting to me that when I first came to second life and read all the blogs and rules & regulations and listened to the creator….that there would be NO police actions on the behalf of Linden Labs….but low and behold, here we are with the banning of games. Linden Labs needs to be MORE specific in their rules & regulations when it comes to spelling out what games are legal or illegal, ie. Slingo and Zyngo be they single player or multi-player games. Scads of places are shutting down their slingo & zyngo games on the basis of this “blanket” ban and last time I checked…..Bingo, in any variation, was NOT illegal…..do you think the Catholics would be running illegal games…..I think not! BE MORE SPECIFIC!!!! I can honestly tell you that I feel its horrible that we ban games of chance, regardless of the feds of the US but yet we keep escorting, strip clubs and basically prostitution going…..again, last time I checked…..prostitution of any kind WAS illegal in the US…..so….Linden Labs…what’re you going to do??? Some of us relied, as income, to working at Slingo Parlors……guess we’ll be leaving SL for good and find other avenues for our online use and you won’t be getting any more of our money….so YOU LOSE…not us!

  167. Aminom Marvin says:

    Completely awesome. My respect for LL has just increased a LOT! This will change the face of SL for the better. No more laggy casinos making mainland horrible. In effect, this severely limits the desirability of camping chair use, especially on a massive scale that casinos use.

  168. Aeper Jie says:

    Ok Well being on the Teen Grid. We dont have Any of this. Yet We do bet on wars with each other. So basicly what i am asking is If we bet on a Wars Outcome Is that Gambaling. o yea on a side note. The teen Grid needs more sims that are combat enabled or. Takeing The Combat Bases off the Main land and add a new Land mass Made for Fighting? and like armys can have base on the main land but dont count as a Miltary Base?

  169. taftworsley says:

    Griefer, thieft of monies, sexual exploitation, , = I think the end of sl is coming soon, because as all the recent news and press indicate the economy is tanking, the membership numbers are falling, 3.2 million from the stock exchange stolen and the people who have experienced the world that has been on a spiral downturn are leaving to never return. Its time to sell and get out before this money pit gets any deeper. Maybe instead of censoring the residents of this virtual world, which i might add has no police force, no government, and no help from any of the above mention from LL; its now closing casino’s while i am not much of one to gamble, its always nice to sit down with a few friends for a game of poker. And according to the new rules – that would be illegal – All I can ask is anyone want to buy and Island …….

  170. Chemical Munro says:

    I’ll bet you 10 bucks this spells the end of SL growth.

    What’s next? Prostitution? Free speech? Will LL also be providing transcripts of private IM’s to the FBI?

    I live outside the U.S. … your quiet and meek acceptance of authority and your stunning eagerness to roll over and give up your freedoms is pitiful. Both in SL and in RL. Once a proud nation able to truly say “Land of the Free and Home of the Brave”. Not any more.

    Other virtual worlds will emerge in other parts of this real world and you will abandoned … and rightfully so. You should be ashamed of yourselves. All of you. Both in SL and in RL.

    You deserve what you get.

    Shame on you.

  171. Vector Spaight says:

    LL is based in the United States. And the USA in all its 16th century puritan prudery banned online gambling. So, in order not to be billed as an online ga,bling service and shut down, they have to comply with the United States laws on the subject.

  172. Spanky Straaf says:

    Has anyone considered the notion of a class action lawsuit yet?

    My concern is this, will LL reimburse those who just invested in gaming supplies. If not, how will or does this NOT equate to theft.

    Secondly from the TOS:
    1.2 Linden Lab is a service provider, which means, among other things, that Linden Lab does not control various aspects of the Service.

    You acknowledge that Linden Lab is a service provider that may allow people to interact online regarding topics and content chosen by users of the service, and that users can alter the service environment on a real-time basis. Linden Lab generally does not regulate the content of communications between users or users’ interactions with the Service. As a result, Linden Lab has very limited control, if any, over the quality, safety, morality, legality, truthfulness or accuracy of various aspects of the Service.

    Right, except when it is…

    1.4 Second Life “currency” is a limited license right available for purchase or free distribution at Linden Lab’s discretion, and is not redeemable for monetary value from Linden Lab.

    You acknowledge that the Service presently includes a component of in-world fictional currency (“Currency” or “Linden Dollars” or “L$”), which constitutes a limited license right to use a feature of our product when, as, and if allowed by Linden Lab. Linden Lab may charge fees for the right to use Linden Dollars, or may distribute Linden Dollars without charge, in its sole discretion. Regardless of terminology used, Linden Dollars represent a limited license right governed solely under the terms of this Agreement, and are not redeemable for any sum of money or monetary value from Linden Lab at any time. You agree that Linden Lab has the absolute right to manage, regulate, control, modify and/or eliminate such Currency as it sees fit in its sole discretion, in any general or specific case, and that Linden Lab will have no liability to you based on its exercise of such right.

    1.5 Second Life offers an exchange, called LindeX, for the trading of Linden Dollars, which uses the terms “buy” and “sell” to indicate the transfer of license rights to use Linden Dollars. Use and regulation of LindeX is at Linden Lab’s sole discretion.

    Linden is not a currency, its a license. So does this null and void their decision, as it specifically involves currency.

    Secondly, if stock markets, should be banned, since it is betting on the currency to go up or down, then the Lindex would be included in this.

    3.2 You retain copyright and other intellectual property rights with respect to Content you create in Second Life, to the extent that you have such rights under applicable law. However, you must make certain representations and warranties, and provide certain license rights, forbearances and indemnification, to Linden Lab and to other users of Second Life.

    Would this not also null this point of the TOS, as they have just removed the intellectual property rights, by arbitrarily removing peoples property out of their inventories, without any warning.

    Those who have been adversely affected by this decision are urged to contact me in world.

  173. Bobo Decosta says:

    I even didn’t think about lucky chairs as being illegal? This is going to far! I should never had agreed with the terms of second life. I can see there new slogan already.

    “The only game where it is forbidden to game”

  174. Sean Gorham says:

    The more you tighten your grip, Rosedale, the more ageplaying furry gorean BDSM camping gamblers will slip through your fingers.

    … or something like that. c.c;

  175. Citrine Florio says:

    Once again, LL comes out trying to look squeeky clean. There’s the ever loving FBI investigation and now – to save their asses, though were the results of the investigation ever released? Gambling is now just banned. I mean, like is it truley possible for them to monitor all activity in SL activity at all times? It’s not as though they could find it important enough to keep live help around..haha will it now be a mission to fight the war on the ever bet linden dollar? You know, in many ways, it will be thier loss. How much will they lose? Lord knows I won’t need to buy the Ls if I’m not rouletting. haha and what about like the Indians and riverboats and places like Vegas? C’mon LL – come up w/ something creative here! I think we except more out of you. You let Landbaron Merlin take almost a whole sim from me and did nothing about it – don’t let this one pass us ALLLL by.

  176. Kirstenlee Cinquetti says:

    Well, i have stopped selling any products relating to random numbers etc etc, i have taken down my incredibly expensive poker table, and a few other machines, All this i dont mind, All i ask is that others follow this ruling and it is Enforced when people break the rules , i don’t want to be seeing others still operating when i have had the decency to take mine down, on a positive note i now have a rather large building just ready to rent (grins)

  177. Ulrich McMillan says:

    I am really interested in the next months economy statistics and the exchange rate changes of the upcoming days. Wasn`t there a chance to warn people at least some weeks before hitting casino owners (and the whole SLingo Community) with the hammer on the head?

  178. Vidal Tripsa says:

    I have something of a complaint to lodge that may well be related to this. One minute I’m running a search for ‘antique tv’ to find myself teleported to Hawaii, and a giant Las Vegas replica sign in the foyer. Objects rez, and I get a minute or so to view my surroundings. Then BAM, my PC completely reboots without warning, and this has happened twice now at the same SL location.

    Believe me, I’ll be doing everything I can to rule out other possibilities before reporting the bug, however I find it an amazing coincidence that whether or not this sim carries gambling tools (I don’t have time to check before being booted off my entire OS), this has all come since this policy was announced.

    While I support the ban generally, I do feel I have to ask – just how are affected sims being treated in all this? If a gambling sim really is the cause of my complete software crash, I’m actually rather peeved at how my viewer seems to have been rigged to remove me in the most violent way possible, especially as I’d no intention of gambling anyway.

  179. DigitalJoe Saintlouis says:

    It’s rather comical..SL is going against it’s own philosophy of creator based content.

  180. Thrakhath Karlfledt says:

    Oh Brother. i thought secondlife was supposed to be.. exactly that secondlife. Your world your imagination. Time to change that . It cant be if we cant do what pleases us.

  181. Welcome to Disneyland.

  182. Yumi Murakami says:

    I’m pretty sure that Lucky Chairs, Money Trees, etc wouldn’t be banned, because there’s no wager. Sploders – that’s a different question…

    The big question is, how random is random. If an item lets you place a bet that a certain number of people will buy an SL item in a certain amount of time, is that “random”? Or is it “skill” (because you can upsell it?)

  183. Aphrodite Tagore says:

    PROSTITUTION IS LEGAL IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

  184. Poledra Behemoth says:

    Dana @33- I have to agree with you about the advertising cubes. My neighbour and I, over the last 12 months, have seen casino/club after casino/club come and go, with revolving advert cubes or signs set high above so that the next 2 sims can see them. Definitely takes away from the residential sims. Not that that is the issue in this case, but it has been annoying.
    As for gambling itself, if LL’s rules state we should govern our conduct and activities according to our own country’s laws, then if I were to open a casino on my land, then only Anshe could kick me off the sim (according to my land’s covernant). Make up yer mind LL if you wanna play by US or individual country laws.

  185. Coon Surya says:

    Uhh…you guys realize that things like sploder parties and casinoes are major ways to earn income in SL right? I don’t think you should outlaw them, because you’d risk losing half of your user base it’s so prevalent.

    How about instead you offer licenses In World casinoes (or so called ‘gambling’ services like money sploders) who can apply for it? Otherwise, you guys are going to crush your own economy.

  186. Jon Steele says:

    For those of you who keep asking about Lucky Chairs. It would stand to reason that they would NOT fall under the ban since you are not putting money into it to “play”. Objects like lucky chairs would be contests/giveaways and as long as you dont have to “buy” or pay anything into it to have a chance to win then it’s not considered gambling. Unfortunately Greedy the game i enjoy playing amongst my friends in SL would be considered part of it; though I’d imagine we can still play it as long as we have the “pot” turned off.

    Concerning post #86: US law is being imposed because LL is a US company residing in the US. I can’t fault Linden for enacting it. I do think this new policy will have a negative effect on SL economy. Will it recover from it.. Perhaps… perhaps not.. But I am glad I recently exchanged the bulk of my L’s back to RL currency.

  187. Storyof Oh says:

    Talking to others there is a talk of a move to knitting and crochet communities as long as we dont use lucky chairs to sit on.

    this is the cyber equivalent of nuking Las Vegas and telling the casinos owners ‘no refund’

    go to the matresses?

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