Announcing User Interface Bug Triage Meetings

Many of you have been participating in Rob Linden’s weekly bug triage meeting, an outstanding community-driven initiative to help us review and prioritize all the great Resident feedback coming in through the Issue Tracker. We want to expand on the success of these triage meetings by adding an additional weekly triage focused exclusively on user interface bugs.

The UI bug triage will be held during my regular User Experience office hour on Tuesdays at 10:00 AM. I’ll be moderating the meeting with help from Torley and Iridium Linden but we’ll be counting on the Resident community to help shape the agenda. We’ll be following roughly the same format of Rob’s triage meetings. Instructions for proposing UI triage agenda items can be found on the Wiki. As a general guideline, UI triage will cover bugs flagged with the User Interface component. Minutes and transcripts from the UI triage meetings will also be posted on the Wiki.

And remember — Resident-reported bugs make this process work! For more details on reporting bugs, see Torley’s blog post on writing better bugs.

The first UI bug triage will be held Tuesday, July 10th. We look forward to seeing some of you there!

[UPDATE]

Yesterday’s first UI bug triage meeting was a big success, thanks to the many Residents who participated (snapshot below). The purpose of these meetings is to give you an opportunity to engage in open, actionable conversation with Linden Lab about which bugs to fix and how. So your ongoing participation in the triage process is critical to its success. Please continue reviewing the issue list, proposing agenda items, and yes, writing “better bugs.” 🙂

I’d like to address the concern that Linden Lab isn’t interested in bugs with no votes. All valid, reproducible bugs will be triaged, even those without any votes. However, we will continue prioritizing bugs by vote as this is the best indicator of which bugs are causing the most pain to the largest number of Residents. Again, if you are deeply concerned about a bug that has a lower number of votes, you are welcome to edit the triage agenda prior to the meeting.

For those who couldn’t attend yesterday’s triage, the meeting notes and transcript are posted on the Wiki. We encourage Residents who are unable to attend the meeting due to scheduling issues to stay involved by reporting bugs, voting, and proposing agenda items.

Thanks again for your continued support and participation!

triagemeeting.jpg

 

About Benjamin Linden

I lead the Resident Experience (aka User Experience) team at Linden Lab. Our job is to make Second Life easier to use by integrating user-centered design methodologies into the product development cycle. Stop by during my office hours to chat about User Interface design and usability, upcoming features, and other issues related to Second Life Resident experience.
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65 Responses to Announcing User Interface Bug Triage Meetings

  1. Ann Otoole says:

    sounds good. keep up the good work.

  2. Fleur Rasoir says:

    “Unable to Connect to server.
    Could not resolve domain name: userserver.agni.lindenlab.com
    Please check your network connection.”

    How can I fix this to get back into Second Life?

  3. Farallon Greyskin says:

    Considering the HUGE UI changes that are imminent with the first look client, are bugs likely to be acted on?

    For example the ressurfaced (or never fixed) tendency for the IM window to lock is size so that it doesn’t save it’s state when you resize it?

    That bug will be moot (Well except the current FL client cumminucator has a very similar bug in it too!)

    And actually as I’m thinking of it, a couple of bug triages on the FL client before release would be tremendously helpful. PRE-release is when these things should actually take place.

  4. Interfect Sonic says:

    Shouldn’t you talk about “writing better bug reports,” or “reporting bugs better”? “Writing better bugs” makes it seem like you’re teaching people to write buggy code. 😉

  5. neeva torok says:

    Great idea. Thanks for putting effort into this.

  6. Jen Shikami says:

    UI? You are a brave, brave man, Rob. 🙂 Hope these go smoothly with a minimum of pitchfork and torch factor.

  7. Azumi Mosike says:

    well i dunno how to say it but since 2 days the transaction system is not working. me and my customer have to relog every time to see the transaction fullfil completly .

    right know i just had a deaf conversation with a customer because the IM system was seeing her offline and she was not having any of my messages.

    i am keen to help my customers, but hell being insulted because SL is not working is not what i pay for. i saw there are release planned for 1.18… i would rather see the bug fixed first please

  8. Adam Hickman says:

    uuummm… a couple of simple questions
    first how many avi’s allowed to attend these meeting
    second it there going to be a group chat for one’s that cant be there in person…so to speak

  9. Bryon Ruxton says:

    Benjamin,
    Did you just say: “writing better bugs”? 😛

  10. Dirk Talamasca says:

    I am all over this. We have more bugs than the Amazon Rainforest. Let’s kill em!

  11. Cernus Piccard says:

    good lets more rolling 🙂

  12. Wyald Woolley says:

    Ahhh…a better bug is one that appears to originate in client hardware and is not easily reproducable.

    I think my favorite bug is the kind I call “the Ghost of Patches Past.” It appears to be a bug that was long ago patched and it has returned to haunt us all like Freddy who we thought was dead.

  13. Myst Homewood says:

    Hope this will give more attention to fixing bugs, especially the bug which STILL is in the friendlist, where friend do not show online or offline as they should. The bug appears more and more often the more people are on.

  14. Code Tracer says:

    Benjamin,

    You need to correct this; Torley’s blog post about “How to report bugs better” not “writing better bugs.”

    -CT

  15. Dekka Raymaker says:

    @ 9 Wyald Woolley

    Maybe more like Kenny in South Park?

  16. Misterbear Fapp says:

    I find myself completely perplexed by all the sudden Linden touchy-feely goodness! Could it possibly be a sudden see-the-light realization of disillusionment from the hard core steadfast client base? Maybe it’s the markedly obvious slowdown in new client acquisitions? I dun know. Perhaps so many of us are no longer willing to recommend Second Life inclusiveness based upon our own experiences. I can’t imagine if I’ll ever get a referral fee based upon my multiple friends initial three month payment – assuming they signed up correctly from my offer (Yes, they might even be that stupid). It doesn’t matter anyway. I’m now a Second Life crack addict.

    Why do we hang out with these Linden sadists? Beats me.

    So, congratulations on your new found if ‘virtually’ late concern. I’ll continue to fake holding my breath. Be secure in knowing I’ve checked out your competition and they can’t hold a candle to your product. Also knowing that, anything I did try couldn’t pass muster within even an hour, so I’ve no idea if our group suffering would be as painful and expensive an experience.

    Do you recommend any in world therapists for my second life?

  17. sterling Whitcroft says:

    Benjamin,
    Excellent!
    Your customers are your BEST source of feedback on what counts.
    Please continue.

  18. Montana Corleone says:

    Okay, what happens with all these triages?

    I had an inventory bork problem following the 1.15 update. Stuff I was wearing as attachments when I logged in after the 1.15 update, that’s HUDs, shoes, would not wear or rez i.e. OBJECTS – no blue pop up. The one I could copy the UUID showed 000-0000-000-000. On 14th June I was contacted by a triage person and told to relabel what I could, and put them in a folder named SVC-171. It would go to Triage on the Monday, and Linden would swing by and see if they could be recovered. Still in there, still not working, still no communication 4 weeks later.

    I just checked and it was listed as Resolved, because it was deemed to be the same problem as SVC-274, the Missing From Database blue pop up for SCRIPTS and NOTECARDS, a problem I had once, but which went away after several hours.

    I really don’t think Resolved is a good term to use when it just gets changed to a later bug report lol. I know there were others. One is listed in the SVC-171 report, and a builder friend found that all the objects he’d created in the two hours before the update had the same problem. That 1.15 “update” had “fixes” and new server scripts to AVOID inv loss lol. Seems to me LL forgot some backup routine before they made the changes. That’s on SVC-171.

    Since SVC-274 was temporary, I guess it was a comms error between servers. SVC-171 has been permanent.

    As for UI interface. Not sure I want the bugs fixed lol. Opinion seems to be that the UI for First Look sucks and people want it scrapped. On a Mac, I’d like the UI to be standard, ie standard key commands, not having two menu bars etc etc.

    Take a look at the Apple Human Interface Guidelines:

    http://developer.apple.com/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/OSXHIGuidelines/

    Part I: Application Design Fundamentals, is essential reading for any programmer regardless of platform. That’s general theory. Since everyone else has been playing catchup since 1984, I guess they have the principles right.

    While Linden use X-Code for the Mac version, it looks like they’ve never read the HIGs.

    However Part II: The Macintosh Experience, has some good stuff too. eg:

    • Avoid relying on a restart to get rid of cached or temporary files that may use up disk space. Be prepared to remove these files yourself when they are no longer needed.

  19. For all the Skeptics, here’s what you do.

    Hijack the meeting 🙂 That’s right, go to the meeting, and when recognized to speak, bring up these concerns.

    The Lindens WANT our opinions, so go give it to them. No one said you HAD to talk only about UI Bugs, as far as I can see, there’s a BUG FIXER in world, might be a good time to go meet them, and report to them your bugs, UI or not.

    Let the Lindens do the work of filling in JIRA and BUG TRACKER and whatever else they want to PAWN off on their Residents!

  20. Cat Gisel says:

    Bob, your idea is interesting, but sadly so commonplace any more, and if it happens the User Interface won’t ever be fixed like it should. All sorts of meetings from villages to politicial debates worldwide are reduced to uselessness because one or two people want to have their own agenda. I’d suggest considering a time to discuss the other issues as well, and give this time for what it needs.

    I still have to wonder if LL is retropatching…

    Will there be snacks? I can come if there are snacks…everyone loves snacks. Good snacks I mean.

  21. Andrew Ingrassia says:

    “Linden Lags!”
    A popular outcry. But you can only fix one thing, eh?
    … What does this post mean?

  22. Mija Ayakashi says:

    These roundtables are a great idea. However, the timing is about as bad as you can have it. Has it *ever* occurred to you that at 10:00AM SLT on a Tuesday the vast majority of North American Residents are either at work or at school?

    I’m glad that *you* have the time to be in-world while at work, but for the majority of us 10:00AM on Tuesday is not possible.

    Yes, another time would mean a Linden would have to work outside of 9 to 5 San Francisco time. Too bad. That is why its called ‘work’ not ‘play’.

  23. Tillie Ariantho says:

    Please focus on the inventory some time… I really sometimes hate the way it behaves.

  24. CAPTAIN NORALUNGA says:

    @17

    The vast majority, as you call yourselves, are NOT in fact in the USA. You don’t run the world, even if you think you do and there are ways to input your thoughts by JIRA or an IM to the Lindens before the meeting.

  25. Farallon Greyskin says:

    #19

    He said:

    “vast majority of North American Residents” not “vast majority of residents” or were you too quick to go on your rant to read what he said? Your point is moot if you are even LESS sensitive than the person you are chiding…

    Plenty of Europeans complain about the very same types of time schedules when it doesn’t suit them, as a whole they are no better.

    What EVERYONE needs to realize is that in a world wide game such as this there is NO good or bad time to do anything and there is NO good or bad time reference for anything. I’t always going to be wrong or bad for mostly everyone.

  26. Kelindra Talamasca says:

    The concept and idea is good but the time is not user firndly . Triage happens 24 hours of the da in som places, i think other then jira a place for bug hunters to gather would be good as well as having more tuimes for meetings with other people offiiating if needed, putting all of this on one linden isnt good enough to serve all community needs, From a long experience in public an private sectore trouble shooting, burn out is almost inevitable to those who do it all So in the the interest f ALL bug hunters every wher in te wod and all time zones and life styles propos at least 3 triage mettings on meeting days.

  27. Oryx Tempel says:

    I agree with #17. I would LOVE to come to a triage meeting, but I too am at work in RL. Any chances of after hours meetings?

  28. Benja says:

    That meeting went very well, despite a rowdy start!

    I’m impressed that any company would be so open with its client base.

  29. Serious Kidd says:

    I am most interested in the bug that happens soon after you TP to a new place. It’s the one that within seconds you are transported to a new location, takes a long to happen, and you are frozen in place when this happens. It used to be that it would happen about every 10th TP and just before the latest incremental upgrade I had to log out 4 times on my first TP each log-in. This has been going on for some time now. What I am most pleased about lately is the memory leak. The change from 1.17.2 to 1.17.3 was truly amazing. Thanks for all your hard work in that area. As you must know 1.17.1 and .2 were totally busted on that front.

    I am very pleased that this is more up front and in the open. I’m crossing my fingers for tomorrow’s upgrade.

  30. Dirk Felix says:

    SL has no guidleines nor do they have a clear roadmap for Information Architecture or HCI.

    This event was nothing more than a PR polling excersize to engage customers and non-paying members.

    If youre questions and agenda didn’t fit within their agenda good luck.

    Good design is never done by commitee, nor should it be influenced by less than 1% of customer base.

    Torley: where is the transparnecy that you promised a week ago? Inquiring minds want to know 😉

  31. Melanie Milland says:

    They make a show of listening – that is about all.

    As far as I can see, more than 70% want the new UI design scrapped – me included.

    I have not yet heard from any Linden whether we will keep an option on the current UI open, so we don’t need to obscure up tp 50% of our screen space permamently, or miss chat messages!

  32. U M says:

    Well the First Look Client is not even useful. If it first then get back to us.

  33. Two important items from the meeting:

    First, a BUG REPORT without REPRO steps will be overlooked and ignored, as Linden Employee’s just don’t have the time to read them all.

    Second, BUG FIXES will be voted on by the community, and those with the most votes will get fixed. Apparently all other bugs, no matter their severity, will just be ignored.

    This is THE MOST disappointed I’ve EVER been in Linden Labs. The excuses for “voting on bug fixes” is that because if they fix something they might break something else. IF I were still coding in the IT Industry, I sure as heck would never admit to my work being that poor! If you can’t fix a BUG without breaking something else, I strongly suggest you get out of BUG FIXING! Even IF something else breaks, then it’s part of THIS BUG and you fix it. If we were to follow through on this madness, then you shouldn’t be fixing any bugs, because you might break something else!

    Seriously, it’s time to fall back and re-group, and come out with a WHOLE LOT better idea of how you plan to tackle ALL the bugs, not just the ones we vote on. I vote on FEATURES not BUGS, BUGS should be fixed, no matter how big or small, and should be tested thoroughly to be sure they didn’t break something else. That’s YOUR job, that’s why you are getting paid!

  34. Lindinha Hyun says:

    Hope this will give more attention to fixing bugs, especially the bug which STILL is in the friendlist, where friend do not show online or offline as they should. The bug appears more and more often the more people are on.This bug happen every time for me!

  35. Montana Corleone says:

    @25, yes, at 10am Pacific, most Europeans are on their way home from work. That’s probably why they pick that time, to cut down on complainers and pack the house with fan boys.

    What they should do, is have them at peak user time, when US and Europe are on. Oh, but then they might notice that at those times you can’t do anything at all, like move or turn around without crashing…

  36. Alexander says:

    Why i can not register?

    Sunko Oh, You are unable to create an account at this time.

    Linden Lab reserves the right to limit the number of Second Life accounts an individual may have. If you feel you’ve reached this message in error, please visit our support page

  37. Avril Sodwind says:

    why is my recent items inventory showing wverything i got in the last 2 months? its really annoying and i like the 1 session recent items

  38. Ann Otoole says:

    jira is what we have to use even though it has an exceedingly poor user acceptance factor. i.e.; you have to be logged in to vote and the login button is not easily located visually.

    let’s say for a minute that voting were as easy as posting a comment here… how many votes would defects get? lots lots more. theres the clue.

    then again, as we all wait 30 minutes to rez once we log in and then deal with the map and teleporting system not working and teleporting to another sim crashing the client and when it does work it takes another 30 minutes for the system to know you changed positions in the grid and on and on and on…, we don’t have much time left.

    the day of liberation is here. if this mess isn’t fixed today then i fear the only thing liberated is most of the residents from secondlife.

  39. DerDepp Schnabel says:

    i think, i will give up!

    ….does not make any sense…all your updates. just let it work

  40. Bman Krog says:

    Im having some trouble login in, where it doesn’t load the page where it shows the onlnie status, just uses the old page. If anyone else is having this trouble please contact me at B_Is_Da_Man@hotmail.com

  41. Spikez Stine says:

    Ahaha, I’m the one sitting on the far right seat in the Alliance Navy Marines armor. Hehe. 😛

  42. Fallon Claymore says:

    I keep getting a corrupted installer error when trying to download the new viewer. I’ve downloaded it onto three different PCs, both First Look and the main viewer. Any sort of help would be greatly appreciated.

  43. Anylyn Hax says:

    Sounds good, … BTW ..The Wiki is down

  44. I’ve had to reinstall SL 3 times so far in the last 5 days, because of “updates”…the reason i have to reinstall being that when i click the update button, my PC tells me i’ve got a virus, so i have to download SL again and reinstall it. Apparently i’m not the only person who’s had this problem…

  45. Stick says:

    Good how they close replies to blogs just as problems start….
    So ill start here
    unable to load textures
    scripts disappering out of newly build objects
    textures disappering from object contents
    unable tyo reset scripts once inside an object
    Ummmmm let you know of more as we go on….

  46. Stick says:

    OOO!!!
    Grey feet

  47. Stick says:

    hmmm not the script is back :/

  48. Korena Starbrook says:

    OK – is it just me or is something really strange with the texturing of objects when resizing them???? It seems to be squishing?

  49. funny says:

    when i may use second life again? I from europe and nobody may play again here. who know when i may connect again in europe time?
    Thanks

  50. Frustrated says:

    well, i’ve been sitting here in world for about 30 minutes now, waiting for the textures around me to load. Guess what? they’re not loading yet, and I’m still bald. *sigh*

  51. Tillie Ariantho says:

    @36 (Ann Otoole): Yes, the Jira UI is a mess. .P

    Each time I want to see my own entries, I have to think about how I get that list out of jira again. .) Voting and commenting is somewhat ‘hidden’ in the left menu, why not two big buttons right under the main bug entry?

  52. MattyMcHatton Roo says:

    Question……… when is it a bug and when is it just a technical problem that might be solved by installing a new Sim server? We have been battling something at our Barbados property for over two weeks now…… have had two Lindens to our place to check it out, they say it’s new to them, and tell us to keep updating the tickets till it’s fixed. So far today, I’m not certain if it’s been fixed because we have not been home long enough to check it out…… another question, have any of you experienced this : after about fifteen minutes, our property name at the top of our screens * the blue letters*, changes to that of one of our neighbors in Barbados. The only way this can be fixed is to either tp to another sim, to fly to another sim or to relog. It’s doubly annoying because we lose our music and movies when the name changes, probably because this neighbor hasn’t got the streams on her parcel. Flying to another sim no longer helps me, since now I seem to retain the name of the property in the next Sim where I flew to and returned. So, is this a bug or not? And is there anyone else in SL who has experienced this?

  53. The meeting was a lot of fun to participate in. I look forward to attending more in the future! 🙂

  54. Cat Gisel says:

    How were the snacks?

  55. From the Wiki that is directly linked in yr post:

    “Does this bugs that have a large impact on users?”

    You Linden folks might wanna fix that.

  56. Mischha says:

    I can’t post in the other section regarding the topic “new update-patch” for whatever reason, I have no clue. Since I’m a new member and started after June 3, 2007, I’m not allowed to access the “Beta Test Grid” so ofcourse I can’t log in. When are they going back to the normal server? I looked at the server updates but the times aren’t specific or they don’t match. It’s 10:40 here so 9:40 PDT. I still can’t log in. I thought the beta would only run for a couple of hours? And they would resort back to the most recent version.

  57. Unstable says:

    Whats the point of hunting UI bugs when whole client crashes in 1-30 mins under Vista? They should first fix that, so that their users can actually USE SL and thus get the possibility to hunt those UI bugs?

    I for example will never get premium account if client crashes & burns every few minutes. But I will start seriously thinking about it IF I can use it few hours between crashes.

  58. Bada says:

    How was the LULZ?

  59. Summary Sanders says:

    bad BAD BUG.
    Speaking of bugs, I hope you are still reading this. I’ve gone through the bug list, the known issues list, and the public bug beta and I haven’t seen this, so I think you should know about it.

    There is a VERY frustrating and object-breaking bug in the current release. I’ve been checking back all week to see if it was a temporary in-world issue, but no, this is a whopper.

    Some object permissions are being changed by Spontaneous Unrelated Actions. Specifically, I try to EDIT a Copy Ok Mod Ok No Transfer object (as have done many times before), the moment the editor opens up, it says You Cannot Modify This Obejct, and proceeds to REVERSE THE PERMISSIONS on it!!!!
    When brought back into inventory, it shows it to now be a No Copy No Mod Transfer Ok Object!!!

    This is BAD BAD BAD not just frome the sheer frustration standpoint, but also for another serious reason. Remember the ruckus over the copy bot possibly being misused? Well, this effectively allows you to make endless copies of No Transfer Objects and give them away or sell them willy nilly!!! bad!! If you want to protect your ‘economy’, you’d better get this one fixed fast!

    For myself I am just severely disappointed that I cannot mod things I want to edit right now. But that may not inspire urgency in the bureaucracy. Maybe the other issues can. Either way, I hope you get it fixed FAST and thoroughly henceforth. This is one of the worst issues I’ve seen in MONTHS.

  60. Summary Sanders says:

    Moderator – feel free to delete previous item. I filed it over at the JIRA bug report system instead… thanks

  61. Tania says:

    I got this message when i tried to JOIN!:

    You are unable to create an account at this time.

    Linden Lab reserves the right to limit the number of Second Life accounts an individual may have. If you feel you’ve reached this message in error, please visit our support page

    Please help!

  62. Chris says:

    I have the same issue as #61. Any thoughts? I have been searching the site all afternoon with little luck!

  63. ihsoftie says:

    Thanks to Oprah, Obama camp claims biggest crowd yet

  64. timber says:

    also have You are unable to create an account at this time broblem
    i have some accounts before but i havent be happy them so i delete them and that is a reason but linden maybe think that i want to ruin second life for making billions accounts and now they dont let me do new one :(( is there anyway to beg linden lab to let me do new one please help

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